Behind the Facade ► THE HOWLING ACES Deep Analysis & the Abandonment of STRUCTURE - A Case Study
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- Опубликовано: 16 фев 2024
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Design Frame's Game Design Case Study of The Howling Aces in Doggone Dogfight. A complete critique and game design analysis of Cuphead: The Delicious Last Course's Doggone Dogfight / Howling Aces boss battle. Design Frame's game design, video game analysis, critique, and review of the Cuphead DLC's The Howling Aces, Pilot Bulldog, Yankee Yippers, Sergeant O'Fera, and Chinook. It's a Cuphead DLC critique and game design analysis, and a case study of Cuphead's gameplay for The Howling Aces. 
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*_IMPORTANT! Please Read for FAQ!_*
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Hi all, thank you so much for watching! It means a lot that you would join me in this crazy and deep game design journey. Your viewership and Liking/Commenting on the video help a ton and I greatly appreciate each one of you!
This pinned comment is where I'll update with any corrections or FAQ. Such as... yes, I make a couple word slips. They're correct (and emphasized) in the subtitles, but was caught too late to fix. Also, yes, Hughes is actually pronounced differently (and strangely). It's a good thing that it doesn't affect the content.
1. *Feeling of repetition.* After some study, I now understand that the thoroughness is also being perceived as long-winded. The thoroughness includes filling in every hole and brief callbacks to ensure everyone stays on the same page. It's a balance. The thoroughness is quite unique to this channel on RUclips, so it can't go away entirely, BUT I understand I have to find that balance for you all, and also for my own sanity haha. Thank you all for being patient with my growth as a creator.
Excuse me 2 and a half hours for one boss?? That’s actually amazing
I played cuphead on switch. So what did I do when she flipped the screen? Paused, moved to handheld mode, and flipped it right back.
Holy shit. I’ve beat that level and the entire dlc, but I never noticed you could control the plane by standing on the edges
LOL how?! I guess that makes sense because you don't really need to control the plane after phase 1 hahaha. And I guess also phase 1 if you have Crackshot equipped.
This was cool to see. Howling Aces is one of my favourite bosses, but this is coming more from aesthetic and the spectacle of the third phase, so it was interesting to see it broken down in terms of game feel and structure.
With regards to the screen orientation I think the increase in complexity can also be modelled by considering what elements the attack introduces outside just those on screen. Namely the controls themselves. For most of Cuphead the game controls are pretty much fixed. The player learns them early on and then that's sorted. You can even forget that the input method exists and exclude it from analysis. Flipping the screen suddenly cuts through that self-constructed wall and forces the player to start re-evaluating assumptions about things like core mechanics (falling down, pressing left to go left).
I think this also brings us into conflict with our usual concepts of immersion since this would technically be 'immersion breaking' (since it forces you up one level of abstraction higher to think about the controller rather than the moves the controller represents) it could actually boost engagement by providing a massive spectacle/climax to the scene. I wonder if this problematises the metaphor of immersion (more of course than it's already problematised) but that's a whole different issue.
Spot on! The fact that it essentially forces you to relearn controls is a bigger problem than people might think. It drills all the way down to physical limitations and inputs, which is also a slowly learned skill in video games.
I also agree that the spectacle and aesthetics are fantastic. That was one of the best things about the fight, for sure.
Super pumped to watch this! Design Frame more like if you don't watch this video then that is a SHAME
Haha that's very kind of you! Enjoy!
Elaborating on the idea of Chinook being missed: why not do the same as the comparative example? Have the main danger, Captain Pitbull, call in support, using a clear visual and audio cue that the player will notice.
As for the redesign of the entire boss, I would take a cue from Gunstar Heroes, which also has a stage where the player takes on a big (space) ship. The battle pans around the ship, visiting different areas as different challenges.
As such, my redesign would have the player chase down the Chinook. The first phase would be the back. The middle would be flying along the side and the final phase could be either of the existing third phases.
Great ideas! I wish I mentioned the bulldog calling in the fire hydrants. That would pair perfectly with the additional sound effects.
I love how you made a nearly 3 hour video over 1 boss fight. It’s nice you gave examples of when Cuphead did it better etc. I watched all of it! Great video.
Thank you very much! You're awesome :)
Awesome video! This was really fun to watch, and great insight into boss design. You explained it very clearly, it gave the vibe of a college lecture (this is a compliment). :3
I have a few points I'd like to communicate:
1) I appreciate the work you put into the subtitles: keeping them accurate, correcting mistakes in the recording, and keeping them correctly timed. I have Audio Processing Disorder, and correct subtitles make the viewing experience so much easier. There are a few times when words are italicized and the subtitles cover half the screen, or when subtitles cover some text information at the bottom of the screen. This is only a minor issue, but worth looking into to make your videos the best they can be.
2) I had no idea there even was a secret phase for this boss. I'm one of those people who only watched a playthrough and played it once myself, but I had no idea I'd missed anything based on my experience. There's no real reason for it to be hidden the way it is, we're designing a video game, not an ARG.
3) I've seen a lot of the comments criticizing length and repetition of points, and I think they're overly critical. In my opinion, it's more an issue of target audience rather than anything inherently wrong with the script or structure. While there are a few minor script changes I would make, this is overall a very clean video essay and the length is exactly what it needed to be for the level of detail you're examining. I understand how it can be perceived as long-winded, but I never had a moment where I felt like it dragged or where I got bored.
One comment in particular said it felt like you thought the audience were idiots, but I never got that impression. I got the impression you were trying to be as clear as possible, avoid confusing uses of pronouns when just saying the term would suffice, and reminding the audience of key points established long ago.
Since everyone has different retentions for new terms and this is a longer video, I liked the way you reestablished what a phrase meant when it became relevant again. In situations where it could be anywhere from several minutes to an nearly an hour before a concept becomes relevant again, just making sure everyone is on the same page is good practice, since you can't control how much memory a viewer has. I have also been accused of over-explaining when I'm just trying to be articulate, and improving that is just the sort of thing that develops with practice.
o.o I ended up writing an essay here. Apologies if there are any spelling or grammar errors that slipped through the cracks. I looked over it several times, but I'm dyslexic and it's late so I can never be sure. Once again, I loved the video. I ended up watching this instead of studying for midterms tonight (oops .-.)
Thank you very much for the write-up! I passed this to my co-writer as well. I still need to somehow create shorter videos for my sanity and channel output, but hearing your #3 is very good to hear. So thanks!
Feel free to call out subtitle mistakes for this or future videos (timestamps), if you watch them, and I'll make corrections. I wish I could handle italics better but the subtitles don't support them and italics is essential sometimes. I'm unaware of subtitles filling half the screen; sorry about that. I skim through the subtitles after youtube auto-times them and only do heavy timing edits to the clips of other youtubers and empty spaces, since youtube always gets those wrong, so it's possible I might miss something.
TBH the Chinook screen flip would be fine, if we learned the flip mechanic in Phase 2- (Note, I started writing this before you mentioned it)
Like maybe during Phase two, periodically, Canteen Hughes flips the plane in a different orientation. The Yippers don't shoot too many projectiles, so the player has enough time to get used to the controls, like "Oh it flips when I am upside down, but stays normal on the sides" or whatever.
Then by the time Chinook comes in and starts flipping the screen, you already know how the plane acts under those circumstances.
Also I hate those lasers, the previous two phases had nothing laser like. Coulda re-introduced the boomerang bone mechanic-
Coz my ADHD brain sees those lasers and I already feel overwhelmed, without the screen being flipped.
Also, the yellow lasers barely stand out on the faded green of the Chinook, which, again, my ADHD brain wants to think of it as background noise, not an active threat- Yes they sorta glow, but it feels like a horrendous eyesore to me.
The yellow dogbowls arent so bad, coz that tone of yellow and thicker outline is more obvious-
Blue would probably look better, as the cold cyan/blue would stand out better against the chinook.
I know why yellow is used - it's one of the few colors people with vision problems see, and is often used on things like caution tape, or on grabbing platforms and things in games for visibility purposes.
But for me as an artist with ADHD for whom that screen with all the movements and everything already feels a bit overwhelming (In my defense I also have a splitting headache today, so that could also add to that) the yellow adds to the clutter and doesn't telegraph well-
Really well made but you repeat your lines too much, the first segment explaning tedium (2:41) can be straight up cut because you say It again when talking about the Boss fight (8:00), there are many more examples of that in the video
I appreciate the feedback! I can justify most of the video, if we were to go through it, though I'm sure it's not perfect. However, I understand that it's also important to address the *feeling* of repetition, so hopefully that naturally resolves as we work toward shorter videos, which may end up feeling better despite being less comprehensive. It's a trade-off that I think might be good for the channel. Thank you for sticking with the videos regardless and for the feedback!
@@DesignFrameCaseStudies most of the other examples i said are minor, like using "tedium" too much instead off another word ir Just "It"
@@OverdadeiroIkarus Ah, I'd argue that contributes more to understanding compared to overusing pronouns, but it's still good for me to know for future reference. Thanks!
I totally agree it was a great video but especially in the phase 2 discussion it felt like he said "this phase throws away everything from phase 1" every 30 seconds and it made me kinda zone out of the video for a bit because I wasn't learning anything new
@@A_Surpluss_of_Stupidity I may have gone overboard on a couple parts, with the goal of covering every possible hole. Thanks for the feedback and I'll improve even further in the next videos :)
Nice to see you back
OOOOOOOO BABY WHEN DESIGN FRAME COOKS THEY ALWAYS DELIVERRRR
Finally finished the video. Thanks, Shawn. Hope to see you again soon
Thank you very much!
Thank you for long format video, we need more in-depth and thought provoking videos and analysis.
Thank you so much for watching! I greatly appreciate it :)
Omg can't believe I missed this >:( I had my bell on and everything. Great video!!!
Welcome back! Thank you so much :)
im very glad he got grayfruit in the clips
thanks for another delicious video!
Thank you so much for watching!
Good video. I think the reason you fail to see the unifying theme in the dogfight is because you took Canteen's plane for the most interesting mechanic of the fight and were disappointed when it became irrelevant in phase 2 & 3. I think the core skill and the "main character" of this fight is not controlling the plane, but is instead the "jump-roping" maneuver, as in avoiding projectiles by just jumping (or ducking), without moving laterally. Dogfight punishes the habit of players to promiscuously use unneeded horizontal and diagonal movements when avoiding projectiles and challenges them to make their evasive maneuvers more focused, well-timed, efficient, purposeful. The tiny platform of the plane and the attacks of all 3 phase are designed to make the player unlearn their muscle memory and purposefully limit their own movement.
Phase 1 clues you in through the crossbones and yarn ball, introducing horizontal projectiles that you have to avoid with limited lateral room (the tennis balls confound this and forces you to move laterally). Phase 2 is admittedly a low intensity transitional phase, but it does introduce something relevant: this time the projectiles come diagonally, several may come simultaneously, and the enemies need to be aimed at on account of their varying position and smallness. In P1 & 2, jump-roping is not directly required, but horizontal movement is discouraged by the smallness and fidgetiness of Canteen's plane. Phase 3 is P1&2 restated, but the difficulty is upped and horizontal movement is punished A LOT. The lazer attack is a reiteration of phase 2: projectiles coming diagonally and/or horizontally(this time they are instantaneous rays), two rays ALWAYS come simultaneously, and the lazer guns have varying position you have to aim for. The dog bowls attack is a reiteration of phase 1: horizontal projectiles that may be avoided with jumping and ducking, comparable to crossbones and yarns, but this time they may come simultaneously. Then the screen flip is introduced, and the player's hand-eye coordination is now seriously punished if they move laterally. If they die, they get a chance to practice jump-roping in phase 1 and 2, slowly eliminating their left-right movement with each replay. The fight design does succeed in conditioning the player's mind, as clearly seen in the gameplay clips where the player give up moving left and right during phase 2 as a way to practice and warm up for phase 3.
Looking at it this way, there is in fact a common thread connecting all 3 phases. Phase 1 and 2 only hints at jump-roping a a viable evasive move and gives you plenty of room for errors, while phase 3 represents the final test of that specific skill. The best part is that this is a maneuver that helps the player elsewhere, and passing this fight makes them an overall better player.
Thanks for watching! I appreciate you taking the time to comment. You're awesome!
I think it's only possible to see the jump-roping (limited lateral) as the core mechanic (rather than just part of a bigger core mechanic) because the plane doesn't do enough to support its role as the core mechanic. If you think about where that jump-roping mechanic comes from, it only exists because of the plane. So ultimately that jump-roping is a feature of the plane.
But then you have to think about, if that jump-roping feature would be the primary function of the plane core mechanic, then why can the plane move? If repositioning the plane does nothing for 2/3 of the boss, why isn't the jump-roping mechanic emphasized instead (by using limited lateral objects that are stationary, to focus on the limited laterality)? And the jump-roping simply isn't emphasized because the means by which the mechanic manifests is through the plane which emphasizes a moveable, limited platform rather than a stationary, limited platform.
This also might be a case where it's difficult to really envision the difference without seeing an example, so I hope this is making sense, but the difference between a moveable vs stationary version of a limited lateral platform really is night and day. If limited lateral was their intent, then they have to emphasize that intent. This could be as simple as having the Chinook's paws close in so the plane can't move anymore, so now it's very clear to the player that the focus and intent has shifted.
As another example (that you'll see in the next video if you're interested), imagine if you get caught between two of Esther's snakes (pretend the snakes are much longer) and now you're stuck and have to engage in a limited movement space as a degree of failure for getting caught in between the snakes. Establishing and building a core mechanic requires the elements and pieces to work toward that core mechanic. And in the case of the Aces, they establish one core mechanic (the plane and its possibilities) but then seem to emphasize a different potential core mechanic (stationary limited laterality), which conflicts with the nature of the plane. (I realize that laterality means something else, but you know what I mean haha.)
Tbh, I never found any of Cuphead’s bosses tedious.
I think it might have to do with how I mentally treat these bosses?
Like I can see how these are tedious, but I can’t help but feel like I just saw these bosses in a way that prevented tedium for me. I can’t remember what the feeling was, but I swear it probably was there.
That's great that you didn't experience tedium, and given that, I also appreciate that you still came in with an open mind!
That is a LOT of TearOfGrace clips in the beginning and it makes me glad to see.
He's very hit or miss for me. But I think that's his goal, is to throw out stuff until he hits gold. It works perfectly for my needs haha
This video is outstanding, but I've got a small question; what's the game you show at 9:21? It looks dope
Thank you very much!
It's Wall World. It's alright but it overstayed its welcome when I played it.
Haven't watched the whole video yet (one thirds in), but I really love the amount of research you did; video must have taken a lot of effort.
I never knew how important Complexity, Difficulty, and Depth have to be; supporting each other for design. And I was initially confused why Cuphead's boss designs was applauded since they create frustration and seem to disregard difficulty curve/flow channel (which are guidelines, not rules admittedly), but you explained it very clearly.
Weird comparison I'm doing, but I don't like Tropical Freeze's bosses. Might be because they structure their bosses like how they structure levels; training players early on with mechanics safely, then ramping the complexity/challenge of those mechanics later on (flow channel). Tropical Freeze's bosses are thst, but with no checkpoints, so the trial and error feels worse as replaying essentially the phases that teach the mechanics over and over wastes time. They have speed run strats within phases, but they're optional and (usually) harder to do, so players that aren't speedrunners might not want to put in the extra work.
Sorry about the comparison, but your beginning section about Cuphead's boss design looking unfair on the outside, but twists that into brilliant game design really was great!
Btw, is it your intention to censor cusses in this video? If so, then you missed one here 39:25 just pointing it out :3
I'm intrigued to watch more of the video later, and thanks for your hard work!
Thank you so much! I'm happy to hear the work was worth it :)
I'm glad you were able to apply it elsewhere. I think slow-starting bosses can definitely become boring or tedious very quickly, and that would align with the idea that the early phases are the most susceptible since they're replayed more than any other phase. It's easy to think that maybe you should start easy in a boss, because that's classic tutorial design, but a boss is supposed to be a test, not a tutorial.
I intentionally didn't censor a couple times because censoring ruined the impact of the moment or felt awkwardly paced. I think the best example is keeping Grayfruit's visceral "what the f-".
Thanks for watching! You're awesome!
39:05
Come on, give him a chance. He just wants to show off his gem collection.
/j
On second thought, I think this was annoying to fight with how long it was.
The dog fight has way too much going on in the final phase.
I don't recall finding either tedious, but I think I just blocked out any feeling of tedium at the very least. As I can see this getting tedious.
i think there's one guideline you missed, i don't really have a name for this one but it generally shows itself through "resource management".
it's when the game has elements that make later sections of the fight easier when an earlier section is mastered, cuphead only really has one element working on this, being the health. (arguably special too but i don't think that one counts as much)
you can imagine a theorical cuphead that resets health inbetween phases which could be more tedious since mastery of the earlier section does not mean any advantage for the later sections.
though i think i get why you didn't add this guideline, because it's generally a broader game mechanic (such as hp) and not purely boss/level specific, either way, the howling aces doesn't have anything like this.
That basically ties into multiple guidelines, since the arc of the boss takes that into account. That's why the decreasing complexity arc is so important, because you'll be spending more time in the early phases. And by using Early Key Learning, it allows the boss to escalate without overburdening the player. This boss is the perfect example of resetting all learning points in phase 3, which is definitely not what you wanna do.
There's something I forgot to mention: The yarn balls don't make you commit as much as you think.
If you're crouching under the yarn balls while a tennis ball is about to hit you, you can dash to avoid it, for dashing has the same hitbox as crouching.
There are also ways you can go completely over the yarn balls (midair dash, midair EX, double jump), but those are obviously less safe/available than crouching.
I probably should have mentioned dashing; good point. I think dashing is tough though since you can accidentally dash too far off the side of the relatively small plane. So I think the crouch dashing is a good source of skill expression for mastering the phase.
I don't count jumping or dashing over the top of the yarn balls because it's just too difficult to pull off consistently, or at least it feels awkward. I don't think Studio MDHR had jumping in mind there, though it's a valid option.
If I beat the harder part of the challenge, whats the of hanving an easy part as the ending od that battle?
Assuming you mean difficulty, it's best if difficulty and/or depth increases over time, and complexity decreases. Basically, there shouldn't be a high learning curve toward the end. Instead, the end should feel more climactic and focused. It's always a balance and situational though. It's possible to want an easy last phase for thematic reasons, though it still can't forsake depth. As long as there's depth, there's still a reason to play through it, even if it's easy.
4:40 actually it's the opposite since the plane's facing the screen :v
Fair enough haha. Everything is from the perspective of the player in this case :)
The Virgin Howling Aces vs. The Chad Phantom Express
I thought the screen flip was perfectly fine, but only after changing R-Control to B. I assume the wording is vague so it doesn't spoil the screen flip, but obviously you could have it actually tell you what it means after said point. Maybe the devs just had some sort of "curse of knowledge" moment?
The R-Control text also didn't get translated into other languages (translator notes say "DO NOT TRANSLATE"), which is probably confusing.
The stuff you've said about the plane not really mattering after the first phase rings very true to me, and the second phase _is_ extremely bland; the quality of it instantly stood out to me, and they couldn't even give the dogs a more visually creative attack than just barking letters at you.
I do think the plane does have a level of meaning when it comes to positioning yourself away from the lasers, though.
This is less significant, but I find the way you lose control of the plane during a phase transition annoying. It's slipperier than it should be.
The Chinook in the background of the first phase does have an audio cue. I'm guessing you were talking about giving it a more noticeable one?
The incredibly vague (I thought the gray smoke was just a neat DLC-level detail...) secret phase should've been the second phase, really.
Also, I wonder how you'll handle Mortimer Freeze. That boss is actually really consistent design-wise and a favorite of mine.
your videos are always a joy to watch; have you ever played Furi?? its similar to Cuphead with the whole boss-fight to boss-fight shtick, and i think you might like to analyze it in comparison to Cuphead. thank you for the sick content!!
Thank you very much! Yeah I've played a few bosses in Furi many years ago. I'd like to revisit it. Thanks for the recommendation!
I rewatched the video and then something hit me. In Darksouls you can quit out of the game and then load back in in order to teleport all remaining enemies that are still alive back to their starting positions. This results in them completely forgetting about your exitence and resuming their normal patrol routes ontill you get spotted or make a noice loud enough for them to want to investigate. Speedrunners use this tech all the time. They even use it to avoid falling to their deaths in certain locations. This tech is also used in games like Elden Ring and Bloodborne, however quitting out and reloading wont work in DS2. Unlike the other Soulsborne games, quitting out in DS2 wont result in enemies teleporting back to their starting positions and forgetting about you. This probably has something to do with DS2 not being on the same engine as the other games.
The fact that you still respond to these comments, honestly shocks me💀🙏
(Also good work bro but i have small question, will you ever make video about dead by daylight? I think that this game is gold mine in terms on deep analisy)
Dead By Daylight isn't on my upcoming possibilities list, but I'll write it down. It's also harder for me to make a video on a multiplayer game, since I have to organize a friend group for it. But I'll consider it!
Although, I forgot I had something written down for DBD -- it's interesting to me (and would make for a good video) that DBD basically runs off of an "honor system" where there are many dumb optimal strategies that ruin the experience. At least that's what I've seen online. I'd have to do more research.
@@DesignFrameCaseStudiesas much as I Love this game, The devs seems to forget that they're no longer random indie producers and they should be let's say.... more proffesional xD. Regardles of that I still think that after failure called skull merchant they started to go in right dirrection for example due to reworking litteratly wrost killers in The game (both in op and weak means) or adding new really good killers (I still really want a cross progresion💀)
I think they should have dropped the second phase and replaced it with the chinook. Keep the first phase, add the chinook having it flip the screen from side to side. than add the upside down and rightside up flips with the side to side movements. the yippers (if necessary) could even throw the dog bowls out or shoot the lasers through the paws of the chinook.
Yeah, I'd probably involve the Chinook in all three phases, but definitely drop the second phase for sure!
Potential fixes:
What if crackshot and seeker just never locked onto destructible projectiles? That would make BD’s hydrants a counter to them and force players to at least take a second gun.
Focus the whole fight on the plane. Escalate difficulty by eventually filling large vertical portions of the screen with damage, forcing the player to move the plane and escape. A bit like brineybeard’s ship’s hyper beam, but vertical. Use the lasers she already fires as gates that the player has to avoid flying the plane through.
If you want to use the screen flip, make THAT your phase one introduction. Flip the screen, then give them a simple, slow vertical attack to dodge to the side of. Then they get a handle of sideways movement in an inverted screen.
Stop saying hyoogs. Whoever told you it was pronounced hyoogs was lying. The g is silent.
So are The Howling Aces covered 1st? Why aren't Glumstone the Giant or Moonshine Mob the 1st boss that get's examened in this video series? To reach THA you need to either 1, defeat 2 other bosses at minimum or 2, explore the overworld and find a hidden route that leads you to THA. Most players go with the former option, because GtG and MM are easy to reach and easy to see. So shouldn't THA be number 3 on the list instead of being number 1?
The order is based on topic rather than when the bosses are unlocked. The guidelines in this video apply to the rest of the bosses as well.
The "Early Key Learning Points" thing is called ""Antepiece"
I didn't know that was a term. I think I disagree. From what I can gather, antepiece has a greater emphasis on easy/non-threatening and qualitative. I'm sure it can be applied elsewhere by bending the rules, but if we're being honest, my term is both more accurate and way more intuitive for the purposes of this video and game.
@@DesignFrameCaseStudies Like the TVtropes page for that term has the Egoraptor quote for how megaman 5 introduces two seperate concepts first in a safer situation and then combined them later.
How it is used on the site is more or less what you wanted to describe. And it is elegant on an etymological standpoint.
@willferrous8677 Right, but I'm looking at how the page defines the term, and it seems heavily applied to tutorial design. I'm sure it can be applied here as well but modified, such as the situation being threatening in Cuphead instead of non-threatening, according to balancing the Trio mentioned in the video.
Either way though, Early Key Learning describes itself. Antepiece doesn't. I don't really see a reason to use the term if I have to narrow the concept to apply to Cuphead when I can instead use a more intuitive term to describe the broader concept.
I appreciate sharing the term though! It's good to know it exists, and I might use it in the future. It seems useful.
@@DesignFrameCaseStudies But it does describe it! "ante" means "before" (Hence "antebellum" and "antediluvian")
It's a set-piece that shows up before the main thing as prepwork!
I'm just trying to help you getting "more cred" by giving you already established terms that you can use later.
@willferrous8677 That's fair, actually. I'll look into the term more 'cause I don't want to accidentally misuse it, depending on the situation.
I don't want you to think I don't appreciate you pointing it out though! It's good to know and I'll most likely use it in the future.
What are you talking about? Mario has warp zones, which in my opinion definitely circumvent gameplay.
There's nuance to the warp zones that I could talk about and how that might affect the gameplay loop, but there's really no reason to. You understand the point of what I'm saying and the core design behind it.
Overall, I find the repetition to be useful. It brings this video an educational quality to it: ensuring everyone is on the same page, that terms are defined, and that everyone knows the connections between all that points mentioned.
I would say the only major bloat is the excessive use of streamers and their footage. I know you're trying to make points utilizing their reactions, but you could easily remove 3/4ths of them and still get the message through Crystal clear. Mostly, all they do is give me headache fuel at I listen to your content with earbuds, and their exaggerated yelling is quite unpleasant; especially in contrast to your measured, consistent, and clear speech.
Thank you very much!
The clips I use are not just for the points, since, to be fair to my work, I don't need them at all to make the points, but also for entertainment purposes. It seems to be one of the reasons people liked my FNaF video, so it makes sense to continue with it. I tried to balance the audio but I'll decrease their volume in future videos so they're not unpleasant. Sorry about that!
R-Control = Rotated Control ?
Just to give constructive criticism, it feels a bit like your belaboring the points in certain sections of your video. Like for example with the Dr Kahl section, it starts from the late 25th minute to the late 46th minute mark, 21 minutes in total to explain something that you could do in like 7. You did a better job with Cala Maria section where it goes from the 47th minute to the 51st minute, 4 minutes in total to get a concept and point across.
Hey I appreciate it! The degree of thoroughness has been the number one critique of these Cuphead videos so my goal for the next one is to address that. I think I've greatly improved on the next video (I'm in the middle of editing it), but I guess I'll find out when it releases! And I'll continue to try my best to improve each video (but without removing what makes this channel different from every other). Thank you for watching and commenting. You're awesome!
28:23 I love just the inclusion of an irrelevant Jerma joke
I'm glad you appreciated it hahaha
Sorry but I really didn't like this video. I also completely disagree with your two main claims; the fact that this boss is tedious and not thematically cohesive.
I think the boss works very well thematically. The whole boss is a pun on "Dogfight", with literal dogs fighting on airplanes. The Howling Aces clearly work as a unit, and the Bulldog is clearly an important part of their group. Showing Chinook at the beginning, but having him fully attack at the end works very well with foreshadowing and escalation. The fire hydrants and dog bowls are also fun ways to incorporate the overall visual theme. Chinook firing lasers makes sense, because it's an over-the-top robotic battle machine. I don't think having the whole boss be based on Chinook would be a good idea at all, it would be much more monotonous.
All bosses in Cuphead are relatively short (usually two minutes or less) and each phase has depth and a relatively high skill ceiling. This means that replaying them over and over is enjoyable, because there are lots of things where you can do better and make the phase go by even faster. When first learning a boss, it can be a good idea to equip a Heart charm so that you have more health and can make more mistakes while getting used to the boss's attack patterns and getting good practice. Would the game be better if there was a "practice mode" where you could instantly practice separate phases of each boss? Maybe, but I don't think it's that necessary, since it usually takes about one minute to get back to the phase you died in.
Personally I play Cuphead with Peashooter and Coffee only, maybe sometimes Lobber, Charge or Spread if I want variety. I always try to go for S-Ranks. I think The Howling Aces is one of the best bosses in the game. If you want to actually beat the second phase optimally (with Charge and Peashooter), you have to perform very complicated movement to do so, and it feels very satisfying. You have to be mindful of the plane at all times while you're jumping and aiming for the Yankee Yippers. The third phase is even more enjoyable; you have to learn each and every laser configuration and come up with a good positioning. If you can aim for the mechanical arms with Charge and do EX attacks, you can do massive damage in a short amount of time. Same for the dog bowls, and dodging them while still doing damage is very much non-trivial and requires good manipulation of the plane so you don't fall off (you also didn't mention that the red dog bowls fall to your level and the yellow bowls hover above you). With this method my best time for the S-Rank is 1:34.
I know you used Miss Chalice and Roundabout or Chaser on Regular mode for these phases, but is it anybody else's fault but yours if you choose to play in an uninteresting and unoptimal way? Just so you know, I would change S-Ranks so that you can't get the full HP bonus if you get hit and you couldn't get an S-Rank at all with Miss Chalice or Divine Relic. I would also probably triple the attack of EX moves, halve the rate that your super meter accumulates when dealing damage, and have rebalanced and much tighter par times for S-Ranks.
Cuphead is a similar game to titles made by Treasure and Platinum Games, where the game is designed around the highest difficulty level, and that is the "true way to play". Games like Gunstar Heroes, Alien Soldier, Sin & Punishment, Devil May Cry 1 and Bayonetta 1 are the same way. It requires the most interesting type of decision-making and dexterity. These aren't generic western games like Call of Duty or Uncharted, where the highest difficulty is barely play-tested and is extremely unbalanced and unfun to play.
I don't know where you got the idea that the complexity of boss phases should decrease the further you get to it. I think it's completely acceptable to have high complexity with later boss phases, that is completely up to the designer. You still think that depth and challenge should increase, but wouldn't that increase tedium in the exact same way if the problem is that the player has to replay earlier phases that they already beat before? The most important aspect to avoid tedium is if the player gets efficient practice, which I talked about before.
With regards to Dr. Kahl's Robot, I very much like the transition phase. It requires very precise and unique movement when both trying to damage the robot head and avoid it ramming into you. There's nothing wrong with having shorter transition phases in bosses if they have their own strategies and depth. Also, the third phase doesn't have too much health, you're just not dealing damage to him consistently. If you stay as close to him as possible at all times while dodging his projectiles, he goes down very fast. You can S-Rank Dr. Kahl in under 1:30 time. You also say there's no depth to the phase, but I completely disagree. On Expert you have to deal with fast-moving projectiles in either a rotating pentagonal pattern, or alternating octagonal pattern, with both moving in a overall sinusoidal pattern. Staying close to Dr. Kahl requires possibly the most complicated and challenging movement in any phase in Cuphead.
For the R-Control: A arguments, the way the player moves when upside down is consistent with other 2D run 'n guns where you're upside down, like Alien Soldier (which Cuphead takes inspiration from). It's also consistent with the upside down sections in Funhouse Frazzle.
This video felt extremely bloated and repetitive, you could have presented your core arguments in an hour or less. Also, please cut the streamer clips, they add nothing to the video.
Hey thanks for the comment! I appreciate the feedback.
I address the perceived bloat/repetition in the pinned comment. The video is very thorough, which makes my channel more of a niche for those who care about the details of game design (but this is a balance that I'm improving for future videos, so please know that I'm hearing you and other feedback and constantly improving), but it also means that I cover not only the "what" but the "how" and "why," which is quite unique on RUclips as a whole and also means I have to expect the same for people who disagree, since that's only fair for the excessive amount of time and effort invested in these videos and the thoroughness of proving each point. To that end, I'll address the major points of your comment and also point you to the video where applicable, and I hope you understand that I can't go into detail here for the sake of time but I hope this helps.
Just because the dogs are one unit in-universe doesn't mean it's unified in a cohesive way. The visual elements make sense for their respective phases, but what I'm talking about is a unifying, core theme, that the mechanics can reinforce and vice versa. The boss has to be looked at in a holistic view, as a whole. You're right when it comes to individual phase elements, at least thematically, but you have to look at it holistically as one boss because that's what it is. Also, I covered the Chinook showing up in the beginning in the Unifying Theme section, so refer to that for that response. And the Chinook being the centerpiece and Unifying Theme of the whole boss would definitely not be monotonous. There are so many ideas that could work. It just seems like it might not work or might be monotonous because Studio MDHR doesn't do a good job of capturing and utilizing the full potential of their ideas. You'll see that in the next video as well. But really a designer can make any focal point work. The Chinook is the obvious piece to focus on, and so mechanics can be conformed to that Unifying Theme. And even then, the secret phase and the bombastic screen rotation elements already demonstrate a ton of the potential it can offer. So saying that sticking to the Chinook as the centerpiece would be monotonous is crazy. You'd be surprised what designers can achieve!
I'm not interested in "all bosses" for the scope of this video. If we're talking Howling Aces, I cover depth and which phases have high or low depth in the video.
I think your next point is that not moving the plane is optional so the onus is on the player to not engage with that strategy, but the simple answer to that is the designer must assume that players will take the path of least resistance, and they often do. Dissecting what a mechanic or phase encourages or allows is incredibly important in game design. For our purposes, it's the sign of a much deeper problem, because if the player doesn't have to move the plane to engage with phases 2 and 3, then that means the game elements don't interact with the boss' core mechanic to create depth. And again, depth justifies mechanics and elements. There's really no way to defend that.
The four guidelines are guidelines and it's acceptable to break them in favor of a different boss structure, but the benefits (and consequences) of manipulating complexity over the course of a boss fight are plenty (no need for me to repeat them all here) and must be understood if the designer wants to break them.
I think R-Control being consistent is fair to point out, but also it's inconsistent within the smaller scope of the boss, which is more important.
The streamer clips provide additional validation. Since this is an evidence-based channel, seeing how people react to the game design that I lay out is basically additional evidence. The clips are also entertaining. Your concern may be that the clips aren't spaced more evenly throughout the video or are too lumped together, which is a valid concern and something I've improved on since the FNaF and Outer Wilds videos. But saying they add nothing to the video is just not true and frankly not that helpful.
Thanks again for taking the time to leave a comment! God bless.
@@DesignFrameCaseStudies Thanks for your response, even though I disagree. The last thing I'll add is that if you really want to properly analyze these bosses, it should be in the context of S-Ranking them. Some charms do admittedly make it still too easy, but that is the way that was designed to require the most amount of skill expression and decision making. I highly recommend trying to S-Rank the game's bosses, especially the DLC bosses, with Peashooter and Coffee. It makes The Howling Aces and Moonshine Mob some of my favorite bosses in any game.
I understand what you're saying about players wanting to go through the path of least resistance, but does that really always apply? Why not beat every boss on Simple mode then because it's much easier than Regular or Expert? I think Miss Chalice and Heart Ring are also their own types of "easy modes" that you can choose to use or not.
It's similar to complaining that Devil Trigger is overpowered in Devil May Cry 1 on normal mode, when the boss health is actually balanced around Dante Must Die difficulty. You are expected to build your meter with regular attacks and do most of your damage in Devil Trigger mode. It's also similar to saying that DoDonPachi or Ikaruga are really easy games, because you can just credit-feed yourself through them. The games are actually designed to be 1CC'd (cleared with one credit) and after you can do that you're supposed to learn the scoring system, which really shows the richness and depth of the mechanics of these games.
@@atmatey Simple Mode is a difficulty option. This series assumes Normal Mode. To address your question though, I'll most likely make a separate Difficulty video since it's a complex topic. It involves some elements of least resistance, esp if poorly implemented, but it's unfortunately not that simple.
The boss' structure also applies to both beating a boss and S-Ranking a boss (or A+ on Normal Mode). The same design applies to both. I do want to add though that it's okay to still enjoy the bosses. My videos aim to overall improve the design and experience across the board, so it's easier to think about the criticisms as the potential for you to enjoy the game even more. And I also don't want you to think there aren't well-designed aspects. Both Phase 1 and the Secret Phase being well-designed is quite significant. But the boss' structural issues mean that the potential for a greater experience is high, and I understand how that can sometimes be difficult to imagine.
The previous video covers why Ms. Chalice and the DLC items are poorly designed and run counter to Studio MDHR's design intent, for partly the reason of path of least resistance, but it has greater implications as well. I also outline solutions that would improve the game.
Again, a lot of my critiques from last video apply here. "Balance" has very little meaning in a single player, PvE campaign-driven game. To quote a tumblr post "is this game actually bad, or does not match what you wanted it to be?" Does it actually 'betray its own vision' or does it betray YOUR vision of what you imagined it could be like?
Same reply applies here, somewhat, especially for a video you didn't even watch, because balance isn't really a topic in this video. It's disingenuous and rude, to say the least, to apply your own agenda to something that isn't even relevant.
I guess regardless: I extensively established their vision. I established a foundation for balance to sit on via design intent. Your feelings of what accessibility should look like is inaccurate and not a relevant topic in this context. And no, accessibility is not the same as difficulty, and not the same as traditional player options. Balance is applied correctly in the previous video.
If you don't want to engage with game design, then there are plenty of shallow channels for you.
That moment when someone makes a 2 hour video about how your favorite boss is objectively bad. (Yeah, thismy favorite boss in the dlc)
I'm sorry! To be fair, there are several great things about it :)
@@DesignFrameCaseStudies Thank you! Also, oddly enough, I do not like the stone mechanic in Cala Maria. It felt like un-fun artificial difficulty you couldn’t avoid. But I guess that’s just how opinions work.
@@Youwillseesomething It would be artificial difficulty if the damage was unavoidable, but that's not the case here. However, I could see a case made for the button mashing mechanic. There should be an accessibility option for holding the button down instead.
Also, apparently in Phase 2, standing still avoids the stone gaze. So maybe if Studio MDHR made that mechanic clear or reasonably discoverable, it'd make the stone gaze more fun.
@@DesignFrameCaseStudies Ok. Good to know.
I think you nailed on the core of why I didn´t find Cuphead´s bosses in general as fun as in other better designed games (something i didn´t know how to explain while playing), the fact that the bosses have phases with completely different mechanics that you have to re-learn, instead of focusing on one satisfying challenge and making it harder overtime.
A good example in a different game would be Hollow Knight´s Mantis Lords, which the first phase you fight one mantis with three attacks, and the second phase you fight two Mantis at the same time, but their attacks are the same as the one in the first phase, it´s really simple but super enjoyable.
The dogs were my favourite bosses from the DLC because of it´s well designed first phase and the spectacle of the third, but it would have been a much better fight as you said if it centered around expanding either the first phase or the third one throughout the whole fight, instead of making both.
I know people already told you this and that you took the criticism, but this one video in particular felt kinda slow and repetitive. I felt that your security Breach video was the perfect balance of being able to understand your arguments, while also not over-explaining yourself, while in this one you do repeat yourself sometimes or go on tangents that are genuinely interesting, but maybe they were not needed for a 2 minute boss fight.
Something I like about your videos, is the way you show other people playing as examples of your arguments, they are a nice touch and pretty entertaining, the editing is consistently really good too.
Thank you very much for taking the time to write this! I appreciate it! Thanks for sharing about Hollow Knight as well. That's a great example of a boss with a core mechanic.
I'm working hard to keep the next video much shorter, but without sacrificing the value. Thank you for bearing with me!
I'm glad you like the clips and editing. It takes a lot of time to organize and get right, so it's always good to hear that it worked out :)
@@DesignFrameCaseStudies Thank you for the kind words!
Also don´t worry too much about the pacing, I´ve seen worse pacing and arguments from much bigger channels, your scripts are still pretty good.
Yeah I do some editing stuff too so I know how time consuming it is lol, even more when the video is long.
One thing I forgot to mention in my comment is that I think the last phases of a boss shouldn´t only decrease in complexity, but stay at the same level too.
Like, for example, the second phase of the Mantis Lords have the same amount of complexity as the first one, having the same three attacks, there´s more depth, but the complexity stays the same, the problem would only be if they added a 4th attack adding complexity.
I haven't watched the video yet, and thus, I'm a bit out of the loop - will there be more videos analysing Cuphead bosses like this? Because, as much as I'd like a 2-hour long video for every single boss in this DLC, I think this sort of commitment to a topic is a bit... out of your scope. For now, at least.
Good intuition. This video was definitely not supposed to be this long, and I'm trying to put hard limits on the next ones. I recognize that it's not sustainable. It has been the main conversation going on in the background right now. I appreciate your concern, because it's definitely real :)
@@DesignFrameCaseStudies Well, I'm glad to hear that this is being addressed in the studio*, then!
(* - you probably don't have a "studio", but you get the point lol.)
While I love this analysis, low key the video's tendency to repeat itself over and over invokes tedium
Don't worry, I'm dialing back the thoroughness in the next video, coming very soon. So I'm hoping it won't be repetitive. I hope the improvement will be noticeable :)
I think there's a certain amount of irony in explaining the concept of tedium for several minutes. I think generally you may be over-explaining. To be honest, I gave up before 15 minutes when you started explaining how optional challenges are different than mandatory challenges. I like your ideas, but not enough to sit around first while you read the dictionary at me.
It's not defining them, but explaining why and how tedium is created and how tedium affects different types of challenges. I appreciate you giving this comprehensive video a shot, though! I'll be experimenting with shorter videos in the future so it sounds like you may appreciate them more.
zany is pronounced zay-nee btw. not zah-nee
Yes I know. Wasn't worth fixing 'cause it doesn't affect the content.
RE: the Secret Phase, I think you’re missing the forest for the trees. Assuming you’re right that they had it finished and then replaced it with the current final phase, it makes sense to leave it in as an obscure option for people who can’t figure out the screen flip and look up an answer online.
Bonus content, even if obscure, has to at least be reasonably discoverable in some small way. External sources isn't valid and undermines all of the possible positive reasons for the secret phase to exist, including the accessibility that you mentioned. And even if someone accidentally finds it, it's not satisfying, and there's no guarantee that those who need it would find it, which is a design flaw.
Thoughts on Poppy Playtime
Poppy Playtime is one I'd like to produce a video on as well. Or at least, Chapter 3, since that's the one most fresh and there's a lot of interesting things to talk about.
As others have said i feel that this video drags on a bit too long in some places. While i thoroughly enjoyed your cuphead dlc as a whole analysis, this video seemed to repeat some points a bit too much for my liking and wandered off in places.
I'm not sure what's repeated that isn't necessary or useful, but going on for too long is an understandable feeling due to the video's length and how comprehensive it is. I think you'll enjoy some of the shorter videos coming up.
Sneed
The Ms. Chalice video was good.
This video otoh pretty much sucks completely.
The point of themes and their randomness is especially awful and it feels like you’re not familiar with the cartoons they MDHR were inspired from.
The point about tedium and transitionary phases is awful too, not everything need to be min-maxxed in a game and this mentality is ruining the spontaneity of video games. This is the kind of stuff that adds to games being memorable.
The Dr. Karl 3rd phase being long is the whole point, not to mention that it is acceptable from a design standpoint because Dr. Karl is one of the last bosses you fight in the base game, so it is acceptable to have a boss like that at that pint.
On the contrary my friend, the fact that you relate randomness to MDHR's cartoon inspiration to justify it misses the point of what that inspiration entails and how that can apply to the medium of video games. A common pitfall for people is misunderstanding what surrealism is (surrealism is what you're referring to) and how to approach and apply it. I'm not blaming you, since surrealism is by far the most misunderstood concept behind Cuphead's ideology, but I implore you to check out my upcoming video if surrealism is a topic you're interested in. Surrealism will mostly be talked about in Phase 3, though theme is also mentioned throughout the video.
The entire thesis is based on tedium, so I assume what you're referring to here is specifically transition phases. I sense a misunderstanding here as well, since having a unifying theme and coherency and structure in a game does NOT remove surrealism or spontaneity or memorability. In fact, the opposite happens, because in a properly structured game, every element builds up every other element. Show me a game where you think structure or unifying theme ruin memorability and I'll show you a deeper problem that's actually the cause of your concerns.
The Dr. Kahl point was a side note and isn't a major problem in the boss, so we can say the length is personal preference. The only thing is Dr. Kahl is in Isle 3, not the end of Isle 3, and not the end of the game, as there's a distinct ending zone to mark the last bosses.