Actually it is. I almost traded my 2wd rav4 for a "All wheel drive" CRV only to be told a dirty little secret by the sales rep. He said that at the time these RAVS and CRVs were built, he claimed that they were really 2wd until you slip and then they went 4wd but only up to 25 mph, then went back to 2wd.
Never understood how Subaru could make a lifted station wagon carve back roads so predictable and smooth while still communicating how much more it can take 👌 I love my Outback, fits what I need out of a car
I currently own a Subaru, I had one before it, and one before that and will most likely continue to own one for the rest of my life. It is the most versatile vehicle ever made. Stylish, capable, fast, handles well, is practical and safe. Not to mention easy to maintain!
The most important data for each cars is missing on the video which is cornering speed. Subaru seemed slower speed at cornering, Honda seemed more faster. If they show the cornering speed instantly, then we may judge the reality.
"All of these vehicles are travelling at the same average speed" he tells you. Don't believe him, look at the video, time the entry to the first set of cones to the first set at the corner with the frame counter, 2 secs, for all of them... What is missing is your ability to use your ears, eyes and brain, that is a reality I can judge. Go polish your ̶t̶u̶r̶d̶ Ford.
I have driven all manner of vehicles in wet evasive tests on a track. Volvo's system takes control away from the driver in a way that could still result in an impact, but with less forward momentum. Subaru's system is designed to keep the system going where the steering wheel is pointed. It is both more engaging to drive and more likely to help you avoid an accident all together.
I am a Subaru owner and fan but I still found this video unfair. Feels like forester is driven slower than the other ones and panic wheel turn is not that strong when compared to other cars' tests. The first corner is taken with a wider turning angle so that second corner could be handled easier.
I agree that it seems like its not perfectly fair. But also, as Foambuddy stated, I think its most likely the case that it looks slower because the vehicle simply handles better. You know like, when a professional does something that they're really good at and they make it look EASY? But when a non-pro tries it, it isn't easy at all. Maybe the Suby just makes it look easy? Though, I definitely did get the feeling that the speed of the Suby was down a notch. I don't know if its because it was slower or what I mentioned above.
Yeah, seems unfair. But it's all in the suspension tuning, and weight distribution. While the Nissan Rogue had a pretty good suspension setup and weight distribution, the Escape's was just awful.
I own a Subaru and the Escape, test is BS as the Subaru takes a completely different line (correct line) while the other are not. Also who is the hell is driving these vehicles? It's not an F1 car where 270 degree of rotation of the steering wheel is lock to lock. Not like it would make any difference but once his arms are crossed the vehicle is driving him. First day of racing school is learning shuffle steering. Before everyone gets all angry I own a Subaru, but I don't belong to the cult because I opened my eyes.
This test isnt just about awd. Its about weight distribution and suspension. The toyota honda and ford have an asymmetrical drivetrain. With their transversly mounted engines and transmissions or trans axle. the awd system is just a front wheel drive slip and grip type system. That all has understeer written all over it subaru has a symmetrical drivetrain with its boxer engine mounted low in the engine compartment giving the vehicle a lower center of gravity for greater control. The symmetrical drivetrain gives the vehicle even weight distribution. This all works in harmony with the symmetrical awd, vdc, and stability and traction control. Subaru shits on the competition
even if you take a bigger vehicle in the Subaru family, the results will be the same. Ive tested all my family other car brands while its snowing and only the Subaru feel safe and confident. They all agree also even tough they dont own Subaru's
NO ONE ASKED YOU IDIOT. THATS WHY WE WATCH THE VIDEO AND ARENT LISTENING TO U.... FUCKIN MORON. WHAT KIND OF LOSER HAS 2 FIRST NAMES FOR HIS FIRST AND LAST NAME.......... GOD DAMN BRAIN DEAD IDIOT.
The vehicles are going the same speed. The visual difference is that the clip with the Forester starts with the Forester further away to give it more screen time. Unfortunately, that gives the perception that it takes longer to reach the cones. If you time the difference between entering the first cones and arriving at the second cones, you can see that they are traveling at the exact same speed.
@SparkDischarge You are incorrect. It uses a clutch plack, but the integration and approach is completely different. It monitors wheel spin, gear, braking, throttle, and steering to transfer power front and back. It is both active and reactive. You can easily search for a picture of Subaru's drivetrain to see it is equal left and right. It's the only longitudally mounted drivetrain of any of these vehicles. All of the others are transversely mounted and thus have unequal length drive shafts.
Just curious what setting they were using in the Ford. I have an Escape AWD Hybrid and there's actually five different settings for how it handles the road. There's Eco, Normal, Sport, Slippery and Deep Snow/Sand. They take it anywhere from front wheel drive to full four wheel drive to deal with deep snow or sand. So you can do everything from maximizing fuel mileage to maximizing traction based on conditions.
It is the year 2021, and if this test was done today with 2012 to 2021 vehicles, there would be a different result! I believe as of 2012, cars in the U.S.A. were required to have Stability Control. Of course some systems may work better than others.
@ReflexCap A 3rd party company administered the test. The brakes weren't used because you can see the back of each vehicle and there are not brake lights.
@ 0:42 - CRV does badly, seemingly 2nd worst (Ford clearly did worst) @ 1:17 - Rogue did better than CRV, and is described as, "hasn't driven off it's line as much as previous vehicles (CRV preceeded it)" @ 2:07 - CRV beats Rogue in the rankings. ummm..... wut?
I'd be reasonably sure the U.S. Auto Club would make this test as fair and impartial as possible. Given that, even if all the vehicles had the exact same tires, the differing sizes on each vehicle would still tend to make a difference. I really think they got this test right on!!!!!!
@SparkDischarge Yes, but not brake individual wheels, especially since a lot of these systems use a 3 channel/ 3 sensor ABS system. They can brake individually on the front wheels, but the rear axle as treated as one entity. You can't make exact corrections to wheel speed if you can't treat the inside and outside wheels separately.
The Forester's video is longer. It starts with the Forester farther away than the other vehicles start which gives the appearance that it is slower. If you time the Forester from the time it exits the first cones to the 2nd set of cones, it's going at the same speed. None of these vehicles used the brakes. You can see from the rear shot that there are no brake lights on any of the cars.
DCCD is only equipped on manual STIs and it's not a traction control device. There is another traction control switch which is available in all Subaru. The "stability" of the car depends on the suspension, center of gravity and the AWD system.
That generation MotorTrend tested the Tiguan, CX-7, and Forester XT. Not only did the Forester win, it was named SUV of the Year. Consumer Reports named it the best Small Suv. The Forester is also the most award winning small SUV in history. The Forester is the most efficient, It's AWD fuel economy is better than almost every FWD in the segment and is better than all of the AWD in the segment. It is the safest. It was the only small SUV to ace the IIHS crash tests.
I know 3 system of Subaru AWD. Active Torque Distribution, Hi Lo on manual, and the DCCD. but he stated that the one in the forester is different from the one in a legacy something like that.
I race rally-cross events in my Subaru every winter and have yet to see an event not won by a Subaru. Most are stock or near stock. I've even won a few myself. This is what makes the Subaru's superior. They use true 50/50 AWD. The rear differential is a Limited slip but the front is open allowing maximum maneuverability. Subaru's lower center of gravity over the front axle is can significantly reduce under-steer and induce some helpful lift off over-steer when changing directions quickly.
@McLer300 Outlander doesn't sell in any appreciable numbers to be deemed competition. Tiguan and XC60 are Haldex AWD which is inferior and depicted in other videos.
@gadgetguy4000 Mitsubishi does not make the FQ variants. Both the STI and EVO are shipped to their respective UK distributors as normal 300hp cars. Next they are tuned by 3rd parties (Cosworth for STI and Xtreme for EVO). They are then sold in dealerships with a factory warranty as the Cosworth STI and EVO FQ (Fucking Quick). This was done for a short while in the US with the ESX edition STIs. The Cosworth 400 STI is completely equitable to the EVO FQ for UK top of the range.
A multilayered video positioning all the cars at the same starting point at the end of the upper cone group will show you that each car arrives at the middle cones at different times and. An average calculation of the range gives approximate the speeds. Honda is around 115kmph, Ford 109, Toyota 103, Subaru at 98, Nissan at 98
@GiveMeThatMango You are seeing the affect of the traction and stability control systems on the vehicles as they enter the course. Your perception may also be mislead as the Forester's segments starts with the Forester far back on the course as opposed to the shorter clips of the other vehicles showing them right before they enter the turn.
@Spyster007 This tests both, hence the title. Subaru's VDC system is fully integrated with the AWD to take power away from slipping wheels and move it to the wheels with traction. Road & Track did a test a few years ago with AWD cars vs their FWD and RWD counterparts on a wet track and the AWD versions bet their 2WD versions every time. Traction and Stability control is important for the common driver and some systems are much better than others.
Why there was no Mitsubishi Outlander, im more interested in Mitsubishi system on conparison. Any ideas if it would be any good vs those bigger manufacturers systems.
The vehicles are all traveling at the same rate of speed at entry. Any difference of speed thereafter is a function of their traction and stability controls cutting power or braking to maintain the line. The Forester only looks like it's going slower because its segments starts with showing the Forester further back in the course than the other vehicles. Comparing the exact points of the Forester's segment to the CRV, the Forester made it through the course a full second quicker than the CRV.
Wow. For being non bias, this video is pretty bias. Notice the new line into the first corner that the Subaru magically takes. This is because it's FWD bias car and you need to turn the wheel in before the Apex then let it understeer through it hitting the Apex as the front finally grips. Setting it up perfectly for the next turn in with the chassis all loaded up then just lift of the throttle to make the final corner. The line which the previous vehicle went through would be great if they were a RWD. But since they aren't those lines put them out of position for the next two corners since they understeered past the Apex from the get go. Please note I own this exact Subaru and the ford escape as well. Both are absolutely horrible at the initial turn in and cornering in general. Despite that I feel more balanced and in control in the Ford escape when doing stuff like this. Once the front end of a Subaru gives out, it's like an arcade racing game. Spin the wheel and nothing happens beyond a little movement. Also Notice despite the wrong line the Ford escape actually corrected its self, yes it hit a cone and that still is a DQ but if there was another chicane it would be ready for it. While the other all would have plowed through the next obstacles. I also own a big old heavy Audi Q7 which would destroy both of them in this test. Fact of the matter is this test shows the car chassis dynamics not its all wheel drive prowess. Here is my world, black ice and light snow Subaru, mid snow and normal ice Ford Escape (both really good in these conditions) Deep snow, entry level true off road ing Audi q7 all the way, . Caveat to Audi is it takes like 5 wheel spins for the rear to lock both rear axles together in a addition to locking the center differential, hence sucks on Ice roads as it's RWD bias and slow to react. But once it's all locked up, its ready to ground and pound any obstacles that comes in its way, feels very 4x4ish. It's no substitute but has that rugged mechanical raw power to it.
i want to know the answer to this to because the only other "stability" thing i know subaru to have is dccd but thats more for the track (dirt or pavement) and is not really a traction control device
Mitsubishi sales volume has shrunk so low, they are no longer competition for anyone. No reason to give them any spotlight when no one is shopping them.
SubScribe It sounds to me more like a sales estrategy you are participating, "if people doesn't know of mitsubishi capabilities, they will not buy them". If mitsubishi is not a product to consider, and if it is really bad, then you lost an oportunity to bury an stake on mitsubishi, of if it is really bad, you would have a fun of the brand on this test(I believe, and, I think you also, that the result will not be that). Anyway, I am talking about capabilities, not sales. ruclips.net/video/aOd0vVEdy2M/видео.html
Late Mitsubishi models are ugly and plain as hell, Subaru used to be the subfusc kid on the block, that title has being passed on to Mitsubishi. I see one or two every 3 months here in Jersey, I guess people arent interested in that brand anymore.
gabojm Mitsubishi is a dead brand in the US. They sell about as many cars in a year as Subaru sells in a typical month and they used to sell more cars than Subaru. Why on earth would anyone include them in their videos when no one is buying them anyway?
SubScribe You're right, seems mitsubishi has stopped investing on its car division, they seem instead working hard on getting more maintenance contracts for nuclear power plants in U.S., or developing control modules, like the one installed in the international space station.
@TheDynoSoar They all entered the test at similar speed. It might appear slower because it didn't lose traction. What happens when you enter a sharp bend, dont lose grip and dont play with gas/brake pedal? Exactly... you slow down.
What you may have paid for your dual clutch A4 does not equal MSRP. The base MSRP for a Quattro equipped A4 is $34,295 and that model is a 6 speed manual. Audi brands all of its AWD systems as Quattro just as Subaru brands all of its AWD systems (of which there are 4) as Symmetrical AWD. The "Quattro" in the A3 is a Haldex sourced transversely mounted system and is not the in house designed, longitudinally mounted system found in Audi's other vehicles.
It wasn't a 2011. Post the link with the .com broken apart. There are plenty of complaints on Escape forums regarding Ford removing the word "Escape" from the side of the vehicle and the "4WD" badge from the rear starting with the 2010 models.
the subaru has the advantage of using the same drivetrain that won the WRC championships 12 times out of the last 20 years. which one do you THINK will win? i own a 2000 forester, with NO traction control, just a clutch to prevent spinning. i'd still prefer it over most AWD systems today.
The driver seems to be much more agressive with the steering when driving other cars, the CRV for example, take a look at the front wheels, i guess they are on full steering lock to the left (this obviously induce understeer). The subaru at 1:45, the driver applied much much less angle to the wheels. Also the camera that recorded the CRV run from the rear clearly is not the same footage than the front angle shown before.
Do wheel sizes, tires, air pressure, stability program algorithm and weight have any effect or bearing on the outcome of these king of test? can any one well founded elaborate?
No both vehicles are not nearly priced. All Foresters have all wheel drive STANDARD and start at a low 22,800 with an A/T, but a 4 Motion equipped Tiguan starts at $26,295. The 22K Tiguan you're referring to is front wheel drive only.
All of the small suvs in the new IIHS small offset test failed except for the Forester. Is there something wrong with the test or something wrong with the capabilities of the cars?
2014 Forester has best in class legroom, headroom, passenger volume, cargo volume, visibility, ground clearance, safety (the only small SUV to ace the crash tests), AWD, resale value, residual value, and fuel economy. It's consumer reports top pick small SUV. It's one of the few in the segment that is fun to drive and has an available higher power engine option. I might be forgetting something, but the point is you just derped all over yourself.
A simple tool to raise the tire traction can be more practical to save a skidding accident on ice. Check the example such a Noskidable and you'll see how it works on ice.
the only car i saw who was traveling slower was the nissan by about a second, but it hink it was just the film editing, and they still failed. and to all the people saying TIRES, if subaru equips their cars with better tires then thats just another pro when buying the car. This test is very realistic, most people arent going to take their brand new tires off their new car and replace them, which is why control tires wouldnt work.. this test showed very well how each car handles stock. and to the people saying "subaru took a different line" have you ever thought that maybe the AWD system is better on the Subaru and allows the car to travel a better path? try driving a subaru, the driver has great control compared to other cars.
No. I'm saying you don't understand that "Quattro" is a catch all for all of Audi's systems. The A3's system is branded Quattro but is actually a Haldex based system. Google "A3 Haldex." There's a link on Audi's website that even explains that the Audi A3 and the TT use Haldex.
Isn't this just a test of ESP? Unless of course, the pro driver used the AWD to accelerate out of the skid. But what normal driver would do anything but apply brakes?
They are going the same speed. The Forester's segment starts with it farther away. Pick a point in the video that matches for the Forester vs. something else and time it. It's the same.
@filmftw3 That isn't true. There was an uptick in the 2011 report for Forester and Legacy for 2005-2008 MY vehicles. These vehicles were some of the fastest cars at the time (Legacy 0-60 in 5.1 and Forester 0-60 in 5.3) Both vehicles were faster than the 350z. A lot of people bought them as sports car alternatives and the data shows both models somewhere between sporty cars and conventional cars. It's to be expected. A safe car is only as safe as the situation it's placed in.
Agree. Would have been good to see the Outlander Sport since Mitsu, traditionally Subaru's biggest AWD competition, could compete. Would have also been nice to see the more expensive competition thrown in there too. None the less, nicely done, albeit biased sounding, video.
No brake lights... and because these are AWD, the traction and stability control are working on the rear wheels as well in an effort to reduce wheel spin on the tires without traction. If a FWD vehicles loses traction on the front wheels, the rears are just along for the ride and provide no real traction. If the same happens in an AWD vehicle, the rear wheels provide traction as long as they are receiving power.
Does that really matter (probay yes absolutly) but that dosent mean ull buy the same brand in winter or summer or the same size. I actually perfer the rav4
I'm sure tyres make a difference, but so does everything else. The whole point of comparing the cars is to show the differences in performance, and they all probably had standard tyres.
@occckid123 Check where they all start the turn vs the cones. The Forester follows all the way through the cones. This test had to be repeated several times to be independently certified. The results were the same.
Some of what you're saying I agree with. But the thing is that the escape and tiguan always impress auto journalists and they always crown them the best driving in the class. I have driven the Q3, escape, tiguan, and previous gen outlander. My mom owns the outlander, my aunt owns the Tiguan. And I rented the Q3 in Hawaii. I drove the escape during a Test drive. The Tiguan and the Escape are best in class fun bar none.
Motortrend's latest test with the Escape, CX-5 Forester, and Rav-4 has the Escape dead last and Forester 2nd to the CX-5. Their turbo Forester vs Escape has the Escape losing to the Forester. Consumer Reports just named the Forester their top pick for Small Suv.
You can also see the other cars are clearly going faster. And on the RAV, it was working, but the driver did not brake and turn soon enough in the second turn.
Without knowing all the parameters/protocols the test is conducted under could cause some people to say this is unfair. It does give you an idea of some vehicle handling dynamics....but all the cars might pass with top quality winter/wet weather tires.
Sorry, but being behind the wheel tells the story of how each vehicle's traction control and engine management react. There are hundreds of thousands of vehicles in this segment sold every year. How many do you think are on the OEM tires for several years?
Lol yeah i watched it like 7 times for that! It certainly does look as if the driver did a *sharp right-sharp left* sequence for the other cars, which wasn't as pronounced with the Forester. Still, the fact that all those are on-demand 4WDs doesn't make it a fair comparison, yet those vehicles are the Forester's main competitors on the market.
@SparkDischarge You don't pull a fuse to go FWD. You have to insert a fuse to go FWD. Even the VTD AWD vehicles with the planetary gearset have this capability as well. It's a remnant from needing to tow without damaging the system. There are far more traits inherit to Subaru's drivetrain layout other than direct impact of having a left and right balance.
@MrWhatabeach It's pretty easy to tell that they all turn in at the same time. How the turn commences from there is based on how the TSC systems for each vehicle reacted.
@SparkDischarge Regardless of being a clutch pack system. the 4EAT/CVT systems are never 100% FWD. They are FWD biased at 90/10 for previous model years and are now 80/20 for torque split. That's the most power the front will have. It will vary in that range up to a 50/50 split.
I think the Forester started to turn a little teeny bit before the others...probably an advantage. Not taking anything away from the excellent symmetrical AWD system though.
@SparkDischarge There is more to these AWD systems than fore and aft power distribution. Subaru's traction and stability control and ABS are all fully integrated with the AWD. A major drawback of designing a vehicle as 2WD and adding AWD is the logic behind the TSC and other systems is oftentimes engineered for controlling two wheels instead of 4. Subaru's system with VDC is able to intelligently manage all 4 wheels rather than just cutting power and and applying the brakes on the front wheels.
@SoDaSub idk 2 me it seemed the first initial turn in of the other vehicles were slightly more forced. in a situation like this; the perfect line matters and how the vehicle is pitched into the turn,...
Would love to see this test with the newest crop of AWD systems. Most all tests are subjective or not applicable to real world conditions like this one. Who cares what it does on rollers or on an off-road obstacle course? These AWD systems are for inclement weather, not rock crawling, and what is ideal for one scenario isn't necessarily so for the other.
named 1 mitsubishi suv with traction in the 4 wheels in the same category...btw there its another test with a mitsu but its another subaru also in that doesnt include the ford
@gadgetguy4000 Subaru also uses sensors at each wheel. Can you please point out Technologies? Publications? If you're referring to the STI not being as fast around a track as the USDM EVO, that is not an indicator of the AWD. The STI's suspension setup is different in the US than the rest of the world. Japan even has a different engine. Abroad, the STI readily beats the EVO as evidenced in Japan's Best Motoring and the UK's Top Gear.
@GiveMeThatMango The Subaru is not going slower... time it. It only makes sense to test with OEM tires as that is what the majority of these cars will be running on actual streets and real word conditions. The stability control systems activated on all of these vehicles during this test. Subaru's VDC works with the AWD to manage power at each wheel and the engine to keep the vehicle going where the steering wheel is pointed.
The front pushing is far more of an issue than the rear pushing. The front wheels doing the steering and having traction duties causes the understeer. The more power that can be sent rearward, the easier it is for the front to steer into the turn and the rear to push power through the turn.
this is the result not only of the AWD and VDC systems, but also of the low center of gravity of the boxer engine that makes Subaru much more controllable and agile cars.
LOL. Audi's website DOES say it. On Audi USA's homepage go to Owners > Questions and Answers (FAQ) > At the top of the tab click off of Audi Questions and Answers and onto Audi Glossary > Pick the letter H > the first thing that comes up is Haldex Clutch. It specifically states it is on the Audi A3 and the TT. Both cars are derived from the Golf and not true Audi platforms. This isn't a secret. Even the guys on the Audi forums know this.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
Fully tested...I owned a RAV4 for 2 years.., then I bought a Forester.., the difference is amazing..
lol that Subaru was like "huh just another day at the track"
That's why I own a Subaru
THE SUBARU WAS NOT "LIKE". SHUT THE FUCK UP U GOD DAMN LOSER.
@@TJNightTrain my subaru is like "found the ford fanboy"
@@nope1918 GO FUCK Y OURSELF.
Actually it is. I almost traded my 2wd rav4 for a "All wheel drive" CRV only to be told a dirty little secret by the sales rep. He said that at the time these RAVS and CRVs were built, he claimed that they were really 2wd until you slip and then they went 4wd but only up to 25 mph, then went back to 2wd.
Never understood how Subaru could make a lifted station wagon carve back roads so predictable and smooth while still communicating how much more it can take 👌 I love my Outback, fits what I need out of a car
I currently own a Subaru, I had one before it, and one before that and will most likely continue to own one for the rest of my life. It is the most versatile vehicle ever made. Stylish, capable, fast, handles well, is practical and safe. Not to mention easy to maintain!
The 102 people who dislike this probably own german cars
UH, I DOUBT THATS TRUE. AND TRY 2.5K U FUCK
Ha ha ha
@@TJNightTrain He said Dislike lmao
Never regret buying a Forester.
I have buy my 2020-21 hybride Forester in Swiss.
This suv is unstoppable every where.
Grettings from Swiss
The most important data for each cars is missing on the video which is cornering speed. Subaru seemed slower speed at cornering, Honda seemed more faster. If they show the cornering speed instantly, then we may judge the reality.
"All of these vehicles are travelling at the same average speed" he tells you. Don't believe him, look at the video, time the entry to the first set of cones to the first set at the corner with the frame counter, 2 secs, for all of them... What is missing is your ability to use your ears, eyes and brain, that is a reality I can judge. Go polish your ̶t̶u̶r̶d̶ Ford.
I have driven all manner of vehicles in wet evasive tests on a track. Volvo's system takes control away from the driver in a way that could still result in an impact, but with less forward momentum. Subaru's system is designed to keep the system going where the steering wheel is pointed. It is both more engaging to drive and more likely to help you avoid an accident all together.
I am a Subaru owner and fan but I still found this video unfair. Feels like forester is driven slower than the other ones and panic wheel turn is not that strong when compared to other cars' tests. The first corner is taken with a wider turning angle so that second corner could be handled easier.
Thank you
It looks slower because it's more controlled.
I agree that it seems like its not perfectly fair. But also, as Foambuddy stated, I think its most likely the case that it looks slower because the vehicle simply handles better.
You know like, when a professional does something that they're really good at and they make it look EASY? But when a non-pro tries it, it isn't easy at all. Maybe the Suby just makes it look easy?
Though, I definitely did get the feeling that the speed of the Suby was down a notch. I don't know if its because it was slower or what I mentioned above.
Yeah, seems unfair. But it's all in the suspension tuning, and weight distribution. While the Nissan Rogue had a pretty good suspension setup and weight distribution, the Escape's was just awful.
I own a Subaru and the Escape, test is BS as the Subaru takes a completely different line (correct line) while the other are not. Also who is the hell is driving these vehicles? It's not an F1 car where 270 degree of rotation of the steering wheel is lock to lock. Not like it would make any difference but once his arms are crossed the vehicle is driving him. First day of racing school is learning shuffle steering. Before everyone gets all angry I own a Subaru, but I don't belong to the cult because I opened my eyes.
This test isnt just about awd. Its about weight distribution and suspension. The toyota honda and ford have an asymmetrical drivetrain. With their transversly mounted engines and transmissions or trans axle. the awd system is just a front wheel drive slip and grip type system. That all has understeer written all over it subaru has a symmetrical drivetrain with its boxer engine mounted low in the engine compartment giving the vehicle a lower center of gravity for greater control. The symmetrical drivetrain gives the vehicle even weight distribution. This all works in harmony with the symmetrical awd, vdc, and stability and traction control. Subaru shits on the competition
even if you take a bigger vehicle in the Subaru family, the results will be the same. Ive tested all my family other car brands while its snowing and only the Subaru feel safe and confident. They all agree also even tough they dont own Subaru's
NO ONE ASKED YOU IDIOT. THATS WHY WE WATCH THE VIDEO AND ARENT LISTENING TO U.... FUCKIN MORON. WHAT KIND OF LOSER HAS 2 FIRST NAMES FOR HIS FIRST AND LAST NAME.......... GOD DAMN BRAIN DEAD IDIOT.
The vehicles are going the same speed. The visual difference is that the clip with the Forester starts with the Forester further away to give it more screen time. Unfortunately, that gives the perception that it takes longer to reach the cones. If you time the difference between entering the first cones and arriving at the second cones, you can see that they are traveling at the exact same speed.
@SparkDischarge You are incorrect. It uses a clutch plack, but the integration and approach is completely different. It monitors wheel spin, gear, braking, throttle, and steering to transfer power front and back. It is both active and reactive. You can easily search for a picture of Subaru's drivetrain to see it is equal left and right. It's the only longitudally mounted drivetrain of any of these vehicles. All of the others are transversely mounted and thus have unequal length drive shafts.
Just curious what setting they were using in the Ford. I have an Escape AWD Hybrid and there's actually five different settings for how it handles the road. There's Eco, Normal, Sport, Slippery and Deep Snow/Sand. They take it anywhere from front wheel drive to full four wheel drive to deal with deep snow or sand. So you can do everything from maximizing fuel mileage to maximizing traction based on conditions.
It is the year 2021, and if this test was done today with 2012 to 2021 vehicles, there would be a different result! I believe as of 2012, cars in the U.S.A. were required to have Stability Control. Of course some systems may work better than others.
stability control wont help understeer, its a FWD characteristic. Only the Subaru is full time AWD, thats why it won.
@ReflexCap A 3rd party company administered the test. The brakes weren't used because you can see the back of each vehicle and there are not brake lights.
@ 0:42 - CRV does badly, seemingly 2nd worst (Ford clearly did worst)
@ 1:17 - Rogue did better than CRV, and is described as, "hasn't driven off it's line as much as previous vehicles (CRV preceeded it)"
@ 2:07 - CRV beats Rogue in the rankings.
ummm..... wut?
I'd be reasonably sure the U.S. Auto Club would make this test as fair and impartial as possible. Given that, even if all the vehicles had the exact same tires, the differing sizes on each vehicle would still tend to make a difference. I really think they got this test right on!!!!!!
@NIGHTMAREuki No. Each vehicle was wearing the manufacture's original equipped tires.
@SparkDischarge Yes, but not brake individual wheels, especially since a lot of these systems use a 3 channel/ 3 sensor ABS system. They can brake individually on the front wheels, but the rear axle as treated as one entity. You can't make exact corrections to wheel speed if you can't treat the inside and outside wheels separately.
The Forester's video is longer. It starts with the Forester farther away than the other vehicles start which gives the appearance that it is slower. If you time the Forester from the time it exits the first cones to the 2nd set of cones, it's going at the same speed. None of these vehicles used the brakes. You can see from the rear shot that there are no brake lights on any of the cars.
DCCD is only equipped on manual STIs and it's not a traction control device. There is another traction control switch which is available in all Subaru. The "stability" of the car depends on the suspension, center of gravity and the AWD system.
I wonder if all vehicles fitted with the same sets of tires. how will the result be?.
That generation MotorTrend tested the Tiguan, CX-7, and Forester XT. Not only did the Forester win, it was named SUV of the Year. Consumer Reports named it the best Small Suv. The Forester is also the most award winning small SUV in history. The Forester is the most efficient, It's AWD fuel economy is better than almost every FWD in the segment and is better than all of the AWD in the segment. It is the safest. It was the only small SUV to ace the IIHS crash tests.
I know 3 system of Subaru AWD. Active Torque Distribution, Hi Lo on manual, and the DCCD. but he stated that the one in the forester is different from the one in a legacy something like that.
I know for sure the Evo's have it and AFAIK, the Outlander. I couldn't find a list with cars supported with the system.
This is Active AWD. Subaru also has Continuous, Variable Torque Distribution, and VTD with DCCD versions of its Symmetrical AWD System
I race rally-cross events in my Subaru every winter and have yet to see an event not won by a Subaru. Most are stock or near stock. I've even won a few myself. This is what makes the Subaru's superior. They use true 50/50 AWD. The rear differential is a Limited slip but the front is open allowing maximum maneuverability. Subaru's lower center of gravity over the front axle is can significantly reduce under-steer and induce some helpful lift off over-steer when changing directions quickly.
good review direct from the subaru user.
I would say the NISSAN did better that the honda
That's like saying, your a little smarter than a chimp.
+Carlos Pereira lol
1. Subaru 2. Toyota 3. Nissan 4. Honda and Ford
@McLer300 Outlander doesn't sell in any appreciable numbers to be deemed competition. Tiguan and XC60 are Haldex AWD which is inferior and depicted in other videos.
@Spyster007 Have you ever let off the gas in an AWD car plowing through a turn? Behaves MUCH more differently than any 2wd car, be it rwd or fwd.
@gadgetguy4000 Mitsubishi does not make the FQ variants. Both the STI and EVO are shipped to their respective UK distributors as normal 300hp cars. Next they are tuned by 3rd parties (Cosworth for STI and Xtreme for EVO). They are then sold in dealerships with a factory warranty as the Cosworth STI and EVO FQ (Fucking Quick). This was done for a short while in the US with the ESX edition STIs. The Cosworth 400 STI is completely equitable to the EVO FQ for UK top of the range.
A multilayered video positioning all the cars at the same starting point at the end of the upper cone group will show you that each car arrives at the middle cones at different times and. An average calculation of the range gives approximate the speeds. Honda is around 115kmph, Ford 109, Toyota 103, Subaru at 98, Nissan at 98
and at the chosen start point Subaru is pointed more to its right compared to other vehicles
make a screenshot of every car at that point and see for yourself
@SparkDischarge Every vehicle in this test was an automatic. It doesn't have the same drivetrain as any of the other vehicles.
@momay69 They are using the OEM tires for each manufacturer.
@GiveMeThatMango You are seeing the affect of the traction and stability control systems on the vehicles as they enter the course. Your perception may also be mislead as the Forester's segments starts with the Forester far back on the course as opposed to the shorter clips of the other vehicles showing them right before they enter the turn.
@Spyster007 This tests both, hence the title. Subaru's VDC system is fully integrated with the AWD to take power away from slipping wheels and move it to the wheels with traction. Road & Track did a test a few years ago with AWD cars vs their FWD and RWD counterparts on a wet track and the AWD versions bet their 2WD versions every time. Traction and Stability control is important for the common driver and some systems are much better than others.
@yellowcow13 it's a compilation of over 2,000 tests. Every driver was able to drive each vehicle themselves and evaluate the differences.
Why there was no Mitsubishi Outlander, im more interested in Mitsubishi system on conparison.
Any ideas if it would be any good vs those bigger manufacturers systems.
The vehicles are all traveling at the same rate of speed at entry. Any difference of speed thereafter is a function of their traction and stability controls cutting power or braking to maintain the line. The Forester only looks like it's going slower because its segments starts with showing the Forester further back in the course than the other vehicles. Comparing the exact points of the Forester's segment to the CRV, the Forester made it through the course a full second quicker than the CRV.
Wow. For being non bias, this video is pretty bias. Notice the new line into the first corner that the Subaru magically takes. This is because it's FWD bias car and you need to turn the wheel in before the Apex then let it understeer through it hitting the Apex as the front finally grips. Setting it up perfectly for the next turn in with the chassis all loaded up then just lift of the throttle to make the final corner. The line which the previous vehicle went through would be great if they were a RWD. But since they aren't those lines put them out of position for the next two corners since they understeered past the Apex from the get go. Please note I own this exact Subaru and the ford escape as well. Both are absolutely horrible at the initial turn in and cornering in general. Despite that I feel more balanced and in control in the Ford escape when doing stuff like this. Once the front end of a Subaru gives out, it's like an arcade racing game. Spin the wheel and nothing happens beyond a little movement. Also Notice despite the wrong line the Ford escape actually corrected its self, yes it hit a cone and that still is a DQ but if there was another chicane it would be ready for it. While the other all would have plowed through the next obstacles. I also own a big old heavy Audi Q7 which would destroy both of them in this test. Fact of the matter is this test shows the car chassis dynamics not its all wheel drive prowess. Here is my world, black ice and light snow Subaru, mid snow and normal ice Ford Escape (both really good in these conditions) Deep snow, entry level true off road ing Audi q7 all the way, . Caveat to Audi is it takes like 5 wheel spins for the rear to lock both rear axles together in a addition to locking the center differential, hence sucks on Ice roads as it's RWD bias and slow to react. But once it's all locked up, its ready to ground and pound any obstacles that comes in its way, feels very 4x4ish. It's no substitute but has that rugged mechanical raw power to it.
i want to know the answer to this to because the only other "stability" thing i know subaru to have is dccd but thats more for the track (dirt or pavement) and is not really a traction control device
funny, in lot of subaru youtube comparisons against other brands, mitsubishi and its S-AWC option is always excluded.
Mitsubishi sales volume has shrunk so low, they are no longer competition for anyone. No reason to give them any spotlight when no one is shopping them.
SubScribe It sounds to me more like a sales estrategy you are participating, "if people doesn't know of mitsubishi capabilities, they will not buy them". If mitsubishi is not a product to consider, and if it is really bad, then you lost an oportunity to bury an stake on mitsubishi, of if it is really bad, you would have a fun of the brand on this test(I believe, and, I think you also, that the result will not be that). Anyway, I am talking about capabilities, not sales. ruclips.net/video/aOd0vVEdy2M/видео.html
Late Mitsubishi models are ugly and plain as hell, Subaru used to be the subfusc kid on the block, that title has being passed on to Mitsubishi. I see one or two every 3 months here in Jersey, I guess people arent interested in that brand anymore.
gabojm
Mitsubishi is a dead brand in the US. They sell about as many cars in a year as Subaru sells in a typical month and they used to sell more cars than Subaru. Why on earth would anyone include them in their videos when no one is buying them anyway?
SubScribe You're right, seems mitsubishi has stopped investing on its car division, they seem instead working hard on getting more maintenance contracts for nuclear power plants in U.S., or developing control modules, like the one installed in the international space station.
@TheDynoSoar They all entered the test at similar speed. It might appear slower because it didn't lose traction. What happens when you enter a sharp bend, dont lose grip and dont play with gas/brake pedal? Exactly... you slow down.
What you may have paid for your dual clutch A4 does not equal MSRP. The base MSRP for a Quattro equipped A4 is $34,295 and that model is a 6 speed manual. Audi brands all of its AWD systems as Quattro just as Subaru brands all of its AWD systems (of which there are 4) as Symmetrical AWD. The "Quattro" in the A3 is a Haldex sourced transversely mounted system and is not the in house designed, longitudinally mounted system found in Audi's other vehicles.
It wasn't a 2011. Post the link with the .com broken apart. There are plenty of complaints on Escape forums regarding Ford removing the word "Escape" from the side of the vehicle and the "4WD" badge from the rear starting with the 2010 models.
the subaru has the advantage of using the same drivetrain that won the WRC championships 12 times out of the last 20 years. which one do you THINK will win? i own a 2000 forester, with NO traction control, just a clutch to prevent spinning. i'd still prefer it over most AWD systems today.
The driver seems to be much more agressive with the steering when driving other cars, the CRV for example, take a look at the front wheels, i guess they are on full steering lock to the left (this obviously induce understeer). The subaru at 1:45, the driver applied much much less angle to the wheels. Also the camera that recorded the CRV run from the rear clearly is not the same footage than the front angle shown before.
(Im sure the forester handles much better than these others suv, but most of them handles like trash)
I meant an actual test by the same driver under the same conditions. And if you look closely at the video, the Audi "Quattro" was a RWD.
If you need an AWD car, no point at looking at anything else other than a Subaru. Every video proves this.
I've only heard of AYC on the EVO, are there any other vehicles with AYC?
Do wheel sizes, tires, air pressure, stability program algorithm and weight have any effect or bearing on the outcome of these king of test? can any one well founded elaborate?
Why didn't you test the Mistibishi oustlander
No both vehicles are not nearly priced. All Foresters have all wheel drive STANDARD and start at a low 22,800 with an A/T, but a 4 Motion equipped Tiguan starts at $26,295. The 22K Tiguan you're referring to is front wheel drive only.
I can't find any Audi sponsored events comparing the AWD. But I think I have seen them in the past.
All of the small suvs in the new IIHS small offset test failed except for the Forester. Is there something wrong with the test or something wrong with the capabilities of the cars?
2014 Forester has best in class legroom, headroom, passenger volume, cargo volume, visibility, ground clearance, safety (the only small SUV to ace the crash tests), AWD, resale value, residual value, and fuel economy. It's consumer reports top pick small SUV. It's one of the few in the segment that is fun to drive and has an available higher power engine option. I might be forgetting something, but the point is you just derped all over yourself.
I attended a session of the tests depicted above. The point is that Haldex is an inferior AWD system.
What three other systems are you talking about?
A simple tool to raise the tire traction can be more practical to save a skidding accident on ice. Check the example such a Noskidable and you'll see how it works on ice.
my company bought me a 2013 Chevorlet Equinox, with AWD and stabilitrak, i really want to know how this car compares up...
the only car i saw who was traveling slower was the nissan by about a second, but it hink it was just the film editing, and they still failed. and to all the people saying TIRES, if subaru equips their cars with better tires then thats just another pro when buying the car. This test is very realistic, most people arent going to take their brand new tires off their new car and replace them, which is why control tires wouldnt work.. this test showed very well how each car handles stock. and to the people saying "subaru took a different line" have you ever thought that maybe the AWD system is better on the Subaru and allows the car to travel a better path? try driving a subaru, the driver has great control compared to other cars.
yes, it's true.
I have subaru and this has a great control comparing to my another cars.
I laughed way to hard when the forester hit the turn, I love my symmetrical awd and don’t think I’ll switch
No. I'm saying you don't understand that "Quattro" is a catch all for all of Audi's systems. The A3's system is branded Quattro but is actually a Haldex based system. Google "A3 Haldex." There's a link on Audi's website that even explains that the Audi A3 and the TT use Haldex.
Isn't this just a test of ESP? Unless of course, the pro driver used the AWD to accelerate out of the skid. But what normal driver would do anything but apply brakes?
They are going the same speed. The Forester's segment starts with it farther away. Pick a point in the video that matches for the Forester vs. something else and time it. It's the same.
how does this test the all wheel drive. Are they accelerating during the turn?
So what are the 3 system that are above the Forester?
@Pokemon7785 Most of the Subarus at that time didn't even come with traction and stability control. All cars with it available had it on.
@filmftw3 That isn't true. There was an uptick in the 2011 report for Forester and Legacy for 2005-2008 MY vehicles. These vehicles were some of the fastest cars at the time (Legacy 0-60 in 5.1 and Forester 0-60 in 5.3) Both vehicles were faster than the 350z. A lot of people bought them as sports car alternatives and the data shows both models somewhere between sporty cars and conventional cars. It's to be expected. A safe car is only as safe as the situation it's placed in.
ok so why was mitsubishi not included? is subaru awd system better than mitsubishi?
Agree. Would have been good to see the Outlander Sport since Mitsu, traditionally Subaru's biggest AWD competition, could compete.
Would have also been nice to see the more expensive competition thrown in there too.
None the less, nicely done, albeit biased sounding, video.
No brake lights... and because these are AWD, the traction and stability control are working on the rear wheels as well in an effort to reduce wheel spin on the tires without traction. If a FWD vehicles loses traction on the front wheels, the rears are just along for the ride and provide no real traction. If the same happens in an AWD vehicle, the rear wheels provide traction as long as they are receiving power.
does the cars have the same tires though
Does that really matter (probay yes absolutly) but that dosent mean ull buy the same brand in winter or summer or the same size. I actually perfer the rav4
I'm sure tyres make a difference, but so does everything else. The whole point of comparing the cars is to show the differences in performance, and they all probably had standard tyres.
@occckid123 Check where they all start the turn vs the cones. The Forester follows all the way through the cones. This test had to be repeated several times to be independently certified. The results were the same.
its hard to judge cuz u cant see how much the understeer was corrected in each case
Why is there not update to this
were the same tires used on all cars?
Some of what you're saying I agree with. But the thing is that the escape and tiguan always impress auto journalists and they always crown them the best driving in the class. I have driven the Q3, escape, tiguan, and previous gen outlander. My mom owns the outlander, my aunt owns the Tiguan. And I rented the Q3 in Hawaii. I drove the escape during a Test drive. The Tiguan and the Escape are best in class fun bar none.
Motortrend's latest test with the Escape, CX-5 Forester, and Rav-4 has the Escape dead last and Forester 2nd to the CX-5. Their turbo Forester vs Escape has the Escape losing to the Forester. Consumer Reports just named the Forester their top pick for Small Suv.
You can also see the other cars are clearly going faster. And on the RAV, it was working, but the driver did not brake and turn soon enough in the second turn.
Without knowing all the parameters/protocols the test is conducted under could cause some people to say this is unfair. It does give you an idea of some vehicle handling dynamics....but all the cars might pass with top quality winter/wet weather tires.
Sorry, but being behind the wheel tells the story of how each vehicle's traction control and engine management react. There are hundreds of thousands of vehicles in this segment sold every year. How many do you think are on the OEM tires for several years?
Notice how they give the other cars extra body roll on the first right turn compared to the subaru
Lol yeah i watched it like 7 times for that!
It certainly does look as if the driver did a *sharp right-sharp left* sequence for the other cars, which wasn't as pronounced with the Forester. Still, the fact that all those are on-demand 4WDs doesn't make it a fair comparison, yet those vehicles are the Forester's main competitors on the market.
question is... have you even drove a Subaru before. Ive personally tested many makes and models, the results are the same as this video.
Maybe because the Subaru has less body roll and more control than the other that make it look like that. 🤔
@SparkDischarge You don't pull a fuse to go FWD. You have to insert a fuse to go FWD. Even the VTD AWD vehicles with the planetary gearset have this capability as well. It's a remnant from needing to tow without damaging the system. There are far more traits inherit to Subaru's drivetrain layout other than direct impact of having a left and right balance.
@MrWhatabeach It's pretty easy to tell that they all turn in at the same time. How the turn commences from there is based on how the TSC systems for each vehicle reacted.
@SparkDischarge Regardless of being a clutch pack system. the 4EAT/CVT systems are never 100% FWD. They are FWD biased at 90/10 for previous model years and are now 80/20 for torque split. That's the most power the front will have. It will vary in that range up to a 50/50 split.
@bekimA16 The test was done independent of the car maker.
@SoDaSub im talking about the first turn where they set the car up 2 make the evasive maneuver
I think the Forester started to turn a little teeny bit before the others...probably an advantage. Not taking anything away from the excellent symmetrical AWD system though.
Subaru the best AWD
sokowatti s prove it
Of course
@SparkDischarge There is more to these AWD systems than fore and aft power distribution. Subaru's traction and stability control and ABS are all fully integrated with the AWD. A major drawback of designing a vehicle as 2WD and adding AWD is the logic behind the TSC and other systems is oftentimes engineered for controlling two wheels instead of 4. Subaru's system with VDC is able to intelligently manage all 4 wheels rather than just cutting power and and applying the brakes on the front wheels.
@SoDaSub idk 2 me it seemed the first initial turn in of the other vehicles were slightly more forced. in a situation like this; the perfect line matters and how the vehicle is pitched into the turn,...
Would love to see this test with the newest crop of AWD systems. Most all tests are subjective or not applicable to real world conditions like this one. Who cares what it does on rollers or on an off-road obstacle course? These AWD systems are for inclement weather, not rock crawling, and what is ideal for one scenario isn't necessarily so for the other.
named 1 mitsubishi suv with traction in the 4 wheels in the same category...btw there its another test with a mitsu but its another subaru also in that doesnt include the ford
@SoDaSub Are you guys planing on making more ramp tests?
@gadgetguy4000 Subaru also uses sensors at each wheel. Can you please point out Technologies? Publications? If you're referring to the STI not being as fast around a track as the USDM EVO, that is not an indicator of the AWD. The STI's suspension setup is different in the US than the rest of the world. Japan even has a different engine. Abroad, the STI readily beats the EVO as evidenced in Japan's Best Motoring and the UK's Top Gear.
@GiveMeThatMango The Subaru is not going slower... time it. It only makes sense to test with OEM tires as that is what the majority of these cars will be running on actual streets and real word conditions. The stability control systems activated on all of these vehicles during this test. Subaru's VDC works with the AWD to manage power at each wheel and the engine to keep the vehicle going where the steering wheel is pointed.
The front pushing is far more of an issue than the rear pushing. The front wheels doing the steering and having traction duties causes the understeer. The more power that can be sent rearward, the easier it is for the front to steer into the turn and the rear to push power through the turn.
@gadgetguy4000 You're still wrong. What makes Mitsubishi's system better than Subaru's?
this is the result not only of the AWD and VDC systems, but also of the low center of gravity of the boxer engine that makes Subaru much more controllable and agile cars.
LOL. Audi's website DOES say it. On Audi USA's homepage go to Owners > Questions and Answers (FAQ) > At the top of the tab click off of Audi Questions and Answers and onto Audi Glossary > Pick the letter H > the first thing that comes up is Haldex Clutch. It specifically states it is on the Audi A3 and the TT. Both cars are derived from the Golf and not true Audi platforms. This isn't a secret. Even the guys on the Audi forums know this.