Clipless vs Flat Pedals for MTB - The One Thing No One Talks About
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- Опубликовано: 12 май 2024
- Shop Talk EP.3 - My take on the clipless vs flat pedal debate and breaking down the one aspect of this topic that I think is oftentimes overlooked.
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I think that your videos would be better if you added more footage of you riding with voiceover. great video too.
Yes! you keep mentioning increased pedaling efficiency with the clipless pedals, can you think of a semi-objective, non-scientific way how to measure this?
for instance measure a climb of at least 800m with both pedals and measure time taken + output watts...
Cockpit setup and how it effects handling, also one on wheel size differences
Tires
Nice one, Peter! Would love to hear your take on tire choice and pressures for the different terrain you ride (loose trails, dh tracks, bike parks, etc). Looking forward to the next one 🤘
Another point nobody really talks about is that riding flats aggressively takes more energy than clipless because you have to maintain tension/pressure between your hands and feet to keep your feet planted on the pedals in the gnar and in the air. It ends up being a lot more tiring to ride flats if you're going hard.
Agree about being able to do more with the bike on clipless with the caveat that you're talking about riding at a very high level. Conversely, you see a lot of beginner/intermediate riders on clipless that develop some crap habits and some god awful ugly technique relying on clipless to mask a lack of proper rear wheel lift and bunny hop skills.
Agree with this. I'm learning rear wheel / front wheel lift on flats and it's a good thing.
Great points. Especially the bad habit building... Thanks for watching!
Agree. I am one of very few among my riding friends who swaps between clipless and flat pedals fairly often. I often get asked why I ride clipless and the answer is because it just makes a lot of things easier. That said, I have found my jumping at bike parks with clipless is not great - for some reason I tend to dead-sailor jumps with clipless - so I tend to ride bike parks with flats as it forces me to use better technique. When I was racing DH, it was almost exclusively on clipless.
@@ianfurqueron5850 I do the same. Clipless on group rides. Skills development flats.
Flats for life.
Yes
I used to say the same thing. I now ride clips for most of my riding.
People who like spinning around and stuff like flats
People who like going really fast like clipless
I used to think the same as you, now im back to flats@@AbrahamBarberi
@@harimathur2191I then thought the same as u and now I'm back to clips...
It is so much easier to pedal over rough terrain with clip pedals and not get your feet blown off. That is the best thing about them for me over flats.
👍🏼
Agree. I have been using SPDs ever since the DX pedals came out waaay back. I had an argument with my SO every time we came to a slightly uphill technical section. I stayed clipped in and was able to use 'pedalling in circles' in a low gear to get through it ok. I always heard the 'click, click' behind me as she unclipped in case she needed to put a foot down or fell over. Thing is, she always unclipped and always had to stop and put a foot down or just abandon the section entirely and walk. I kept saying: "if you stayed clipped in, you'd be able to easily pedal through". But...
@@astronomenov99 Yeah, that is one of the "pros" of using flat pedals, knowing you can put a foot down easier, which can translate into more confidence in some situations. Clips need that commitment to get the best out of them.
@@teamdoa This is copied from my post on Cademedia video: For people that don't get on with SPDs. I did a LOT of analysis as I had friends who just couldn't get on with them. This is what I found: When someone gets into trouble when clipped in, their first instinct is to try and pull up vertically with the foot that is uppermost in the pedal stroke. As this foot is already high, they can't generate the forces to overcome the spring tension (it takes a LOT of force to exit vertically from an SPD without twisting!) and so down they go, usually on the side opposite this upper foot. (If they are right footed, the right foot is usually uppermost and they fall on their left). The quickest way to exit an SPD is press DOWN with the ball of the foot slightly and flick the heel out and this should be done first with the foot that is at the bottom of the pedal stroke (so you then put that foot down on the ground). But this is not a natural thing and has to be taught so it becomes second nature. It's important to get the hang of press down and heel flick early as after a couple of falls, the newbie is very nervous and this then becomes a mental block.
I've been using clipless pedals for about 30 years now, so I'm definitely used to them. Recently, I've been hitting the Pump Track, which got me onto flats. While I dig them for pumping and jumping, on the trails, I still prefer clipless. My issue with flats is that every time you lift and set your foot back down, it ends up in a slightly different spot, which is even more of a hassle if you're wearing shoes like mine, the SPZ 2FO, which have a super strong grip.
With clips, your feet are always in exactly the same spot, or maybe with a little rotation at most. The fact that my foot shifts around with flats is just too distracting for me, and it messes with my flow on the trail.
Totally agree with you about the foot placement. The predictability of clips is great. Thanks for watching!
@@wayne5741 I would defintiely do flats first to work on building proper riding habits! Hope you have fun out on the trails!
Sort of a double-edged sword. It's a problem if your feet are always in the exact wrong place. :) Not so much an issue with mtb biking, but the longer repetitive motions of a road ride will reveal fit problems. I use flats on a gravel/road and while I sometimes shift my feet around in a fussy way, I also look down at where my feet end up and see what no clipped in system could accommodate.
Love all of your vids dude!! Really helping me out as I get back into the bikesss. You helped me buy a bike that actually fits me, def way smaller than I woulda bought otherwise. Keep it up, your content is gold
Glad you are finding the content helpful!!
Dude, loved this, some good points covered , I like the down to earth approach of your videos , cheers !
Glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks for watching!
Great commentary and points mate. Some of that control piece at the bike park I've not really thought about just assuming I'll ride flats only there and clips when out for hours in the woods. Food for thought, thanks man.
Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for taking the time to watch!
Yo I love your vids but please stop premiering them for like 4 days in advance, just schedule it instead :)
Thanks for your feedback! Out of curiosity, why is that?
@@PeterJamison Premiered videos almost solely reach your subscribers, which we’d see anyway if you had just posted the video regularly, additionally it’s taking place of an old video of yours that could have been recommended. Maybe I’m being petty but I’d rather be able to watch the video on my feed then and there. Thanks for hearing me out, also keep doing more tech talks 👍
thanks for the input! 👍🏼
Hard agree with all the same points!
Agree
Great video and great riding! I also prefer clips when riding parks with chunky and gnar. I definitely use clips when doing XC. I only use flats when I practice jumps or new tricks.
Appreciate the kind words! Glad you enjoyed the video 👊🏼
So much energy spent to discuss this matter when GOOD dual pedals exist out there ( xpedo ambix ). Been rocking those quite flawlessly, the only real disadvantage is slightly harder to locate which side you need but you get used to the feel after some rides.
🤙🏼 Glad they are working out for you ✌🏼
The efficiency between flats and clips is about the same except in sprinting situations. Clipless pedals are good for 1 keeping your feet on the pedals for control purposes and 2 for those XC people clipless keeps your feet in a biomechanically optimum position for hours at a time without thinking about it.
🤙🏼
Great topic. I started with clipless pedals and pretty much stayed with them. One of the main reasons is I just feel like I’m more connected and with my stiff shoes it’s obvious more efficient for long distance rides when my legs get whipped out. Ratcheting on techie climbing sections are probably helped by being clipped in but I can see the need/want for flats in case you have to bail.
Glad you are having a good experience clipped in 🤘🏼
I ride a hardtail, so when I'm going hard downhill on my rocky and dry local trails, the clipless system gets me "attached" to the bike with all the bumps and vibration. I also tried flats, but I just felt too slow in the flats and going uphill, this is my insight coming from a gravel/roadie previous riding. As you said, starting with flats is better as you build up confidence.
Glad you are having good luck with the clipless system ✌
this is awesome peter. i tried clip-in (note i like new term for “clipless”) pedals recently and failed. i had a few high side falls and shattered my confidence. i feel like i should give it another try… maybe on easier stuff till i get comfortable…
Trying on easier terrain to build confidence is key 💯 Thanks for watching!
We all fell when we started, it takes a while for your brain to adjust to having to twist to disengage. Two things that help is to loosen them a bit so they are easier to remove, and do a few minutes of practice like this: Start moving, stop, unclip, start moving again, stop unclip, reapeat a few times to get muscle memory in. Once you get used to them it's like a super power, bunny hops are dead simple.
@@dgochez Loosening the clips to start is a great piece of advice!
I love that you talk about your setup. Knowing some details about a pro's setup with the pro explaining the reasoning behind it is highly valuable to me!
I had no idea you ride clipless for all your trail vids!
Glad you are enjoying the content! Thanks for taking the time to watch, I really appreciate it!
Given good technique on both types of pedals, there is no efficiency difference when pedaling. There is no gain in potential power when clipped in. I’ve followed countless studies on this over several decades. Most that show an efficiency increase have obvious flaws in the studies. To me, the benefit of clipless in MTB is that it allows you to pedal over terrain where you can’t pedal on flats without getting your foot bucked off. (I’m experienced with both.)
Show me a Roadie or XC racer that uses flat pedals because they are just as efficient...
No efficiency increase with clipless?! You may have experience with both but have you ever raced? I’ve never raced DH, but in every Enduro, XC, Gravel, and road race I’ve done all the top guys are clipless without exception.
@@SoEnduroBro There's almost no disadvantage to clipless for a road racer (how many care about awkwardly walking their bike around town or into a convenience store etc? hehe). There are advantages to clipless whether they're more efficient or not (e.g sprinting). So while there's the belief we hear constantly about pulling up in the pedal stroke and efficiency, that seems to be a myth and pro cyclists have religiously adhered to many myths in the past.
Gotcha, yeah there are a lot of different ways to look at it. 🤙🏽
@@fsquared64He's 100% correct, there is absolutely no data showing any efficiency increase with clipless.
It's a very easy thing to run experiments on - just put people on bikes or trainers with clipless and platforms. So it's been tested repeatedly for years and years... but there's no statistically measurable efficiency difference.
"Why are all pros using clipless" is an obvious and cliche response to that. But think about it for a sec and there could be a bunch of reasons (weight, comfort, popularity, sponsorships, etc.). It certainly doesn't address the efficiency claim though.
Peter I love your videos. I really enjoy watching you ride. I live in western Colorado and ride similar desert terrain as south Utah. I would like to know what tiers do you run and why?
Thanks for the kind words! Really appreciate it. For tires, I run the Maxxis DHR II in the rear and Aseegai in the front 🤘🏼
I'm a roadie and XC rider so clipless for me. I have used flats, nothing wrong witht them, and if I was doing DH, jumps, tricks or whatever this is what I would go with. It doesn't need to be a debate -they're just different tools for different jobs.
🤙🏼
love the point you brought up towards the end. people claim riding clipless is bad cause it can teach bad techniques. that's true to some extent, but clipless pedals actually offer more options to the rider, that is their advantage. why wouldn't a rider want more control, more options on how to move the bike?
Yeah, the "bad technique" thing cracks me up. Like learning to have a smooth spin is bad.
It really depends on what you are doing
Clipless actually totally limit your options if you're doing any slopestyle or trials riding
But for downhill I think they are the obvious choice
They definitely provide so much more control 🤘🏼
Amazing. Thanks.
Thanks for watching!
Thanks! Great POV. I've been riding for about ~14 years learned flats and stayed on flat pedals, ride everything from sweeping XC to double-black DH. Recently I got into road and gravel riding (as well as still MTB) which forced me to learned clipless - not without a fall or two on the sidewalk. Now I feel confident clipped in on road rides but still can't bring myself to try clipless for enduro or freeride, even though they also involve a lot of pedaling.
Clipless for MTB is definitely intimidating at first! Perhaps in the future you can try it out after some more time on the gravel bike👍🏼Thanks for watching!
were you an instructor at highland bike park 2 seasons ago? I am pretty sure you were my introduction to the sport if thats the case, it was pouring rain and I went OTB on the first run lmao but I loved it
I was not an instructor... But glad you had a good experience there! Highland is awesome 🤙🏼
SPD's for me! Not for efficiency, but because it locates my feet in the correct position on the pedal every time, without having to be concious of it. Unclipping in tight situations or coming to a stop is automatic, after 30yrs of doing it. Used PD-M520's on road and MTBs and now eMTBs. Very reliable pedals.
SPD's work great for sure! Glad they have been reliable for you.
I’ve said this in a reply here too (sorry). It’s important to be able to ride both. The DH racers at UCI nearly all clipless on race day, but most of those ride flats in training (which we don’t see…). Why? Well, flats maintain skills and no point in breaking an ankle before race day; unlike race day when clipless gains a second which justifies the small risk.
My biggest gripe between flats and clipless is the support. With a flat pedal, it feels like the pedal is supporting a lot more of your foot. On a clipless pedal, I've always felt like I'm standing on a point. I feel like the Mallet DH pedals come close, but the pedal body is still fairly narrow and doesn't go across my whole foot.
That said, I want to give clipless a better shot. I rode a lot of bike park last year and found myself losing my pedals every now and then when riding through some rooty sections at speed. It probably happens only once each time I went up, but that has the potential to end my day or worse, my season.
thats my problem with them too, I just wish we had a bigger platform to brace against on them
That's kind of my problem too. I rode clipless for over 20 years (good flats and flat compatible MTB shoes weren't really a thing in the 90's) and decided to try flats a couple years ago when I damaged a clipless pedal and needed new shoes anyway. The biggest thing I noticed was how much more supported I felt on flats than with clipless. I (ironically) felt more connected to the bike and able to really lean on the pedals to get the bike to dig harder into corners with flats.
About the only real downside I've noticed is techy climbs. There's really no replacing how much easier it is to get through a super techy uphill with clipless (I know it's possible with flats, just haven't broken some old habits yet).
I would really recommend testing out the saint pedals! They give a great platform feel in my opinion.
I ride clipless
Crankbrothers DH Mallet
Crankbrothers Mallet Boa shoes. Perfect and stable
Glad you have found a setup that works well for you ✌🏼
Opinions on the Fox Union flats with the Race Face Atlas vs Five Tens? I'm trying to find grippy flat shoes with BOAs and Fox just released the Union BOA flat
Really happy with the Union flats, and the Atlas pedal has very aggressive pins that offer a lot of grip - good combo. That said, maybe most impressive thing is that I have been running the same Atlas pedals for 18 months with no issues, those pedals are durable🤘🏼
I tried crank brother mallet e at my trail and 1 week later i went back to flats lol. Fell way too much that i gave up and my local trail are narrow, tight and rooty that you need so much skills to ride clipless
i literally did the same, with the exact pedals hahah. Good to know i am not the only one
@@garrett3802 My friends told me to but shimano spd as its the easiest to clip out but i still went for CB lol. Maybe one day i will try again but might stick to flats again lol
Are there any studies to back up the claim that pedalling efficiency is better when clipped in? GCN has done a few videos looking into it and has found no measurable difference, but they were looking at road riding.
Nothing too official, this article (also by GCN) I found useful: www.globalcyclingnetwork.com/tech/features/are-flat-pedals-actually-just-as-fast-as-clipless-pedals
The clear benefit as dicsucced in this article is mostly in peak power and sprinting. What is impossible to measure though is the efficiency gained from your feet being in the correct pedaling position at all times which is huge in MTB...
Hey! I feel like clipping pedals are way more risky: if you end up lose controle during a jump, you might not be able to unclip the pedals during the jump, and then fall forward isn't it?
I tested riding with flat and clipping, I highly prefer clipping for controle and climb efficiency but now that I'm more riding in bikepark, I'm just too scared to ride with clip pedal again.
What's your opinions?
I have found that with every big crash I have had clipped in, I have unclipped just fine and it hasn't had an impact on the fall. That said, that is a valid concern!
@@PeterJamison Hey thanks for your answer.
I've also noticed that on few crashes, but I don't get how we can unclipped during the jump.
With no clip it's kinda straight forward, you just jump and throw the bike from from you
Definitely thought this was going to be about how it's actually plenty easy to dab when you're clipless, and how undabbing/clipping back in mid-rock-garden is the unreliable part. I'll take getting my feet very briefly and inconsequentially blasted off the pedals ten times over a single instance of having to finish out the section one-footed. My second bet was that it would be about how even with a lot of float clipless locks your knee into a small range of positions, which can be poison on the really long 60mi+ enduro rides. 🤷♂️
Clipping back in can definitely be tough!
You list me at the efficiency take! Everyone one says that! There’s videos of flat vs clipless pedals and there’s barely if any difference in them! Especially with today’s tall pins and sticky sole compound on shoes you can be efficient with them both! It all comes down to technique
Definitely agree that technique plays a huge role.
Do you find much difference between the Saints and XTR’s? And how much float do you like? Thanks!
Definitely a difference in the float between the two pedals! I do not like much float, and on the saints I run the tension between zero and three turns. On the contrary, with the XTR I run the tension about three clicks from max. Hope this helps!
Great vid however/style however some pro's of flatpedals are also overlooked and not mentioned in your vid.
One footers no footers, cancans, crankspins etc and literally the freedom of moving your feet around while on/off your pedals. Flats ushes for clean jumps too, boost your inherent need for clean bunnyhops etc. Taking into account that one/no footers are utterly cool, the advantages of allowing such moves on flatpedals outweigh the pro's of clips massively. We see this with our youngsters here at home who are fully into the tricks on high speed 4m high tables, making them much better bikers than they could have ever been using clips (which a lot of their fellow aged bikefriends started using "for efficiency")
🤙🏼
In what position do you run your cleats when riding your trail bike?
I run my clips all the way back and toward the inside of the shoe 👍🏼
I'm not sure if you mentioned it but I would say flats are probably way better for freeride like hitting big jumps just in case you need to bail out. Am I wrong?
You are 100% correct 🤙🏼
I ride both. I do like to dab a foot riding technical stuff. Shimano’s are adjustable and way better for beginners.
Agreed, Shimano's are great for people just starting out with clips ✌🏼
clipless make my knees hurt. no matter where I adjust my cleats. I'm relatively old for the record. I don't have that problem (yet) on flats.
Sorry to hear that!
Hey Peter! Sick vid! but random question, if I happened to come out to Virgin this year, could you take me on a lap or two down Kong🦍??
Hey Seth! I tend to stay away from guiding due to liability concerns, sorry! Either way you should definitely check out Virgin ✌🏼
@@PeterJamison do you know of anyone that could?? cause no way in heck am I sending that by myself without anyone that actually has done it
I have a pair of hustle labs mag pedals I want to try on my DH bike this season. I have clipless and flats but these have been sitting in my garage for a year and I'm really curious how they perform. Might be a cool video just for content.. A good middle ground between the two.
Rad, hope you enjoy them!
@@PeterJamison I'll likely end up with flats or clips but it will be a nice middle ground if they do feel pretty good. They are heavy but for the DH bike it's no biggie really.
Having ridden flats since day 1, I 100% experienced more creativity when trying out clipless last year. I felt like I was cheating on some features lol. I can totally see how if someone starts out & only rides clipless, they would develop really bad habits in regards to fundamentals. I ultimately went back to flats for the most part, as I felt myself less confident riding into things blind as I had no dab bail-out option. I also felt like my feet were "floating" at times, although that might be due to the fact that I was on XC clipless pedals with no support. Might have to give it a go again this season!
I would really recommend testing out a pedal like the shimano saint to get more of a platform feel... should help get rid of the 'float' feel your experiencing. Hope this helps!
@@PeterJamison I definitely will! Just got back from a clipped in ride, and man it is so fun! 🤘🏼
🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼
Let's all just ban the use of the term clipless. "Clipless" left this world a very long time ago. Clips or clips-in. Done.
Actually the opposite is true. Clips are dated and only used by hipsters. Every one rides clipless. They were named this because they replaced the clips.
@@kentclarstroem Yeah I meant the origin of the term clipless - coming from the doing away of toe clip/straps. Nobody in the MTB world uses those anymore so we can revert to using the term clip-in.
@@philipvaren3050 True and we can also stop saying "car" and just go back to"horse". I mean since nobody takes a horse shopping anymore we can stop saying car and go back to calling the vehicle we take to the shops horse. Clipless pedals are clipless pedals. Clips are clips.
@@kentclarstroem Haha ok dude. whatever you say.
@@kentclarstroem I don't want to be the um actually guy but actually car used to refer to the passenger carts pulled by horses, and with the apparition of engines we started calling those new vehicles "motorcars" or even "horseless carriage". Then everyone stopped using horses, so we just called them "cars". Not sure if we should keep calling cars "horseless carriage"
My biggest fear with clipless is obviously falling without clipping out. Saw some nasty clipless crashes where flat pedals would clearly allow to minimize the fall damage. You can see people trying to disengage in the air before going head first into the dirt, but to no avail.
Not having your feet secured can also lead to you loosing the pedals in the rough stuff and causing a crash. I am more scared of that so I feel safer with them on.
@@dgochez I'm not scared of that at all tbh. It happened to me few times, but without any major incident so far.
I have found that in each major crash I have had clipped, I have been able to unclip without any issue. That said, crashing with them can be intimidating.
@@dgochez I always felt like if your lost balance is throwing you off the bike anyway, the difference is getting your foot out to save yourself or taking your attached bike down with you, rather than the bike keeping you safe because you're attached to it. On the other hand, getting your feet knocked off flat pedals by a bump does happen.
Idk, I mean flats and clipless are just two different riding styles. I routinely swap between the two, its two different experiences and they are both fun. I'll probably always raced clipped in but since I learned to ride mtn bikes clipped for years before trying flats I have to ride a lot more deliberately and cleanly on flats. But, both pedals are equally cool, just different.
Totally agree ✌🏼
i just bought my first pair of clipless, and the only thing ive been worried about is, bailing. is one able to bail using clipless?
Yes, after the learning curve.
I can dab, no problem, with my spd's.
Bailing with clipless is scary at first, but you will gain confidence with time ✌🏼
When I moved from flats to clipless, my first thought was "this is cheating". For me the biggest con of clipless is to clip back in, still I'd choose clipless over flats every day.
Clipping back in can definitely be a challend at times!
I use flip flop pedals and switch between both all the time.
Never seen those before!
@@PeterJamison they’re great. Pegs on both sides, but flat on side and clips on the other.
Raced road for 20 years before moving to Reno/Tahoe. Started mountain biking and naturally felt comfortable with clips and rode those for a year before trying flats. I tried clips again after a year on flats and hated them, despite being several seconds faster down the DH tracks, never having my feet blown off, and being able to pull up harder for jumps. There’s plenty of arguments for both. You’ll never see Rampage won on clips, and I can’t remember the last time a World Cup DH was won on flats. Not everyone cares about being the fastest or most creative and realistically 99.9% of us will never max out our talents on either style of pedal. The stuff homeboy here is riding is so gnarly that you should take note that he rides flats. But then there are guys like Metallier and Lewis Buchanan who can ride clips on similar lines with absurd amounts of exposure. I LOVE World Cup DH racing and personally am way better at going fast than I am at going big or being stylish. That said, my favorite riders are the freeriders. The dirt jump guys. All the coolest edits and the shit that excites me and that makes me want to ride are from the guys (and girls!) who ride flat pedals. That’s how I want to ride. It’s just a whole different vibe on flats, and that’s why I ride them. Flats for life.
🤙🏼
OH WOW THAT MANUAL TAP IS CRAZY
Thank you!
I'm just gonna say this: There are no peer-reviewed studies that prove that clipless is better. In fact, most head-to-head tests I've seen prove that Flat pedals are more efficient and that you use more muscle groups in your legs to spread the workload. Multiple world champions ride flats. The SHOES make a difference for sure. More so than the pedals. But, being attached to your bike is stupid, IMHO.
The shoes are a major contributing factor no doubt.
Name some pro riders that use flats. My understanding is that it’s very few riders.
For MTB flat pedals forever. Have done very long rides on flats it is more tiring I got clipless on road bike and one of my gravel rigs but the safety on trails for flats is irreplaceable. I don't care how efficient you get with bailing out of clipless those OMG moments can be instantly resolved with flat pedals by simply putting your feet down. No matter how much I practice on the road bike (and I use SPD's there for faster unclipping) the safety of not being clipped in cannot be overstated.
If I am smashing rocks I am not on the bike, I walk. No need to take those risks. While SPD's are more durable hiking your bike isn't great for the cleats. The pedals while designed more for mud and whatnot still get dirty quick.
Different pedals for different bikes but if you're not absolutely romping it and putting down enormous wattage clipless only introduce more complexity and trouble, study after study shows there is no advantage unless you're a very advanced, strong rider putting out a lot of watts. And even if you are with regards to trails nothing beats the safety of flats. I'd rather go slow and not get hurt.
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I have a spd one side flat on the other.
never seen that before!
Jibbing and spinning = Flats
Sending and Bending = Clipless
🤘🏼🤘🏼
I think I like flats just for bailing/dubbing, otherwise SPD/CBs all the way. And I am nowhere close to an advanced rider like Peter or others mentioned.
The difference is even greater on a Hardtail or a rigid MTB/gravel bike. Waaay more confident with cleats.
"Efficiency" is not something I notice TBH...same segment times more or less with or w/o going uphill. But the lack of minor scratches from the stupid pins for the silliest of rub-on instances is more than noticeable.
And to keep the "purists" happy, I would call them cleat-pedals and be done with it.
I totally remember toe-clips and I can see the marketing appeal of the clip-less / toe-clip-less campaign, but from an engineering standpoint, the "cleat" pedals are the only ones you actually clip in, while with the toe-clips/straps/cages you were ... strapping in or something...definitely not "clipping" in.
Pedalling efficiency? How much we talking? Can you even quantify it?
I think riding relatively shallow trails just grinding an uphill there isn’t much difference. But getting up a short steep pitch or a technical up and over, being clipped in is easier. I go back and forth. When I first put the flats back on, I will often lift my foot off the pedal. But I soon adapt. The different technique needed for flats is less efficient. But you develop better skills using flats that are transferable to being clipped in. I’ve used toe clips and straps and clipless for over 40 seasons off road. I can get out of clips fast. Faster than flats because I’m used to rotating the foot which you can’t do on flats. That said, it’s a different skill that gets developed over time.
there is some research around this and clipless pedals claim to increase efficiency by pulling along with pushing motion in your pedal stroke. however in most studies the efficiency gains are minimal/no existent and could be attributed to stiffer soled shoes etc
@@andyeunson270 I come from a trials background so moving my foot around on the pedal just seems natural.
Sprinting up a short climb, more on my toes.
Slogging up a mile fireroad, centre of the foot.
I totally get the efficiency thing for road cycling where every watt matters but for enduro style riding flsts just seem to mske sense.
@@marcbeecroft3916 You trials guys are an amazing breed. It’s the sprinting or sprint like bursts where being clipped in is an advantage. And the pedals are often smaller and less likely to hit something. I like both styles and go back and forth.
I ride basic trails in the midwest, so no long downhill or anything extreme, but there are some rooty climbs that I get hung up on with flats but can power through pretty easily when clipped in .
I thought the “thing” was going to be how much worse the outcome of a minor wreck is on clip-less pedals
I find crashing with clips to have the same outcome as flats... and I tend to crash pretty often 😂
Clips are high risk, high reward…. I guess, but I think the danger is not worth it.
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Flatless pedals are the way to go
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Clipless user here - so not hating on flats by any means.
But you keep saying "pedalling efficiency" - a term I find being thrown around a lot. Usually with zero real explanation of what that means, or what I find is exaggerated claims to what the gains are. So: what exactly do you mean with efficiency?
To me it comes down to perfect feet position for pedaling in all situations and the stiffness from the shoes delivers better power 👍🏼
Clipless for life!
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BRO YOURE SO GOOD WTF
Appreciate it!
dagga flat pedals go crazy
I wish I had transformers pedals, would be a greater invention than the dropper, a click of a button and you're clipped ...
Maybe in the future 🤨😂
It's pretty well debunked that clips give you lots more power. In flat out time trial kind of sprints, sure. But for normal riding, the difference is negligible and has been shown many, many times here on youtube and in at least one scientific published paper.
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I don't like the clips. Over 20 years of riding. Never liked them. Toe clips. Are a better option.
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Eee.. magped?
Just put the video ouuuuuuuut. This upcoming stuff is so annoying
Out of curiosity, why do you find the upcoming videos annoying?
@@PeterJamison i think its the swing from feeling, oh sweet a new video from someone I enjoy watching, to nvm you cant see it for almost a week.
Im subscribed for a reason and thats to watch your videos. Im going to watch them with or without the upcoming video posts.
@@schenker1993 Thanks for your input and thanks for watching the videos!
Totally agree its an unnecessary roller coaster of emotion from yah to awe.
@@D91Mart 🤙
"Clips vs flats"
No one has any clue what old clips looks like so stop calling them clipless
What no one really talks about: flat pedals provide a better platform to push against and provide more lateral stability, flat pedals are more precise (e.g. when placing your rear wheel) because they have no float, clipless pedals are NOT more efficient, they just allow you to pedal through spots where it’s hard to pedal with flats
Clips are for roadies 😂
Guess my roads are pretty rough...
Clips are for anyone who has the courage to learn how to use them. I've been clipless for over 20 years, I can't imagine going back to my feet flopping around on rough trails.
@@jeffrogers2180 learn to ride properly.
@@roddas26 😂 I do. I understand that you're afraid of being clipped in, so was my ex girlfriend.
@@jeffrogers2180 foot out flat out. You do you buddy. And you do understand my 1st comment was in jest right? Maybe you don't 😁