We're hoping that we'll get a sort of comeback there with what we're doing with REMIX. Tourneys are happening but it's a shame it's mostly post event VODs that are the only means of engagement.
Man! These were the days! Going to a massive local melee/pm tournament, then almost everyone going to a homies house for a big fest right after, while a tournament streams melee/pm. Just fun days
I'd kill to go back in time to the smash scene during this era. both melee and PM were the 2 most played games and the hype was unreal. the scene was absolutely massive and everyone was in love with smash. now I'm a melee player who is just waiting for the next melee-esque modern plat fighter to capture me...
Rivals 2 had a trailer recently if you haven't seen it. They're bringing back ledges, shield and grabs so it looks a lot more like PM than the first one
One thing you didn't cover was Lucas's grab, Lucas's dash grab in 3.0 had a hitbox that covered both his body even behind him and the snake for the entire duration. Why they thought this grab was a good idea I don't know
As jank as all the characters were, I give the devs props for literally making Roy and Mewtwo playable. I was super hyped and looked forward to 3.0 back in the day. It was a different meta back in the day but it was important for the scene.
The good ol' days, I've never been ride or day for this specific version of the game but the energy and community around the game at the time really was like nothing else. Truly the Golden Era
Can we all agree that Lucas, Diddy, Pit, and Mewtwo is the coolest top tier list you could possibly grab from brawl (okay maybe snake should be there too)
I remember seeing that famous Neon vs M2K set for the first time, not knowing what PM was or even the competitive Smash scene at large. I had only kind of gotten into Smash 4 at that point but decided right then and there that Lucas was the coolest fucking character in existence and wanted to main him. Imagine my joy when he was announced as DLC
I started since 1.0, really getting into it in 2.6. 3.02 was weird for me since I hated how imbalanced it was, and at the time preferred melee to it, even though I liked playing PM more. Then 3.5 dropped and I LOVED the nerfs, but that + smash 4 + nintendo threats killed a big chunk of the scene's momentum. Now P+ is my favorite smash game, and while I enjoyed the 3.02 days, I'm also glad the days of that gameplay are gone. I just wish the scene was the same. I think it is also worth mentioning in 3.02, Pit's d tilt had a meteor hitbox on it, so it beat CC outright. It made scrapping with him even harder. I'm also curious if these top 4 would have stayed the same if more time developed. At least as an MK main, I feel like there was so much MK mains didn't know about back then that would have made him more threatening. And surely there are other characters that went untapped. Thank you for making these videos and keeping the PM/P+ interest up. -JELLY
Never would have gotten into smash the way i am now if it wasn't for pm Also A brawl minus balance philosophy for a custom build of project plus with all the content and quality of life stuff in p+ 2.29 would be phenomenal
Never watched competetive project M because I started with smash 4 so I didn't know who you were. Something I love about these types of analysis videos are when there's the use of "I". Like watching the history of a speedrun hits different when you hear "That's when I got the world record" or "I discovered" 4:55 I loved the video and I loved that you were able to include yourself
Man, that Xanadu era of PM 3.0 brings back so many memories. Right when I was getting into smash and hot off the documentary, you could find people of every smash background coming together every Tuesday night for banger tournaments and fire commentary. Legitimately thousands of people watching a weekly tournament. Despite the characters being broken I think we all had fond memories of that era. Those were the days.
Got into smash because of 3.02 in 2014, it was quite possibly the biggest part of my college years. Mostly play melee now thanks to rollback and most of my friends not playing anymore... fingers crossed they can get p+ rollback working sooner rather than later. Pm will always be my first love ❤
PM Snake with his crazy ass setups is the most fun I’ve had in Smash. Nothing like c4ing an off stage enemy to shoot them up only to fair spike them back down. Charizard’s gameplay is also a favorite. I miss PM’s era.
All sorts of characters were so fun in 3.0 PM, i personally loved old Zelda where she got 3 side B's for area denial and fun combo setups. I have great and salty memories alike from early PM
It's pretty great to see that you're still around, sad I missed these videos for so long. The scene overall chose nintendo over themselves, can't say I ever agreed with that call but don't blame vgbootcamp and others for chasing their livelihood. I also can't blame the dev's for wanting to play it safe when Nintendo began to flash their trademarked, now all too common, utter contempt for their own fans. PM was something really special, P+ is great but I just can't help being a bit heartbroken over what could have been. Thanks for the nostalgia and memories -- an old, old ass lurker, spammer, essay-writer of the PM smashboard.
I think all the old PM heads are a little traumatized over what transpired but some of us are still around I do wish that we lived in the reality where Big N embraced us, woulda been sick
This was awesome to see as someone who got into PM during the 2.1 days and reliving the rise and peaks we got to back around 2010-2011. Haven't played since 3.5 (why did they nerf Ganon's nair?!) but this makes me wanna pick up P+
I really miss these days. Was always so wild to me if you went to a Xanadu pm weekly you had to deal with chillin, pink, boss, you. Smashg0d, seagull and more all just for a weekly lmfao. Probs won’t forget going 0-2 at my first smash tourney after my first tourney match was against pink in 3.0 lmao. Real glory days
I was in high school when Brawl came out. Now, I have a soft spot for the game and the fun that my friends and I had with it, but when Project Melee came out, it seemed like it changed EVERYTHING. Brawl instantly was retired, and we were all learning all sorts of tech and how to play Smash. I have very fond memories of PM
First time a video has asked me to subscribe and I have. Maybe cause it wasn't the first thing said haha wish more RUclipsrs were creative with their plug. Loved the video
When talking about diddy walling I'm surprised you didn't use the great clip of boss vs squeak where he trips like 6 times into death lmao EE saying SQUEAK THO as he rages and punches the table
I mean the "golden era of overpowered smash characters" was definitely Smash 64, where 90% of the cast has guaranteed 0 to deaths on 90% of the cast unless you have wizzrobe-tier SDI (at which point it goes down to like 60%)
you forgot to mention backair-saur and cracked sonic, but I liked this. this was the era that got me back into the smash and PM is still my preferred game because I just love Wario so damn much.
3.0 and 3.02 just hit different. 3.6 is probably my second favorite smash game of all time, behind final patch s4. While the top 4 was undisputed, the cast was still pretty solidly balanced and the game just felt good. That being said, 3.02 chu kirby needs a spotlight on the channel at some point. If you know, you know
Hot-take: part of me feels like Emukiller is really the GOAT of PM. Why? Because when PM was biggest, Emukiller was the best. Note: It was PM that first got me into competitive Smash, so I was a moron back then. But I remember m2k complaining that Emukiller was getting carried by Mewtwo (which he was), but no matter how much he practiced, Emukiller still bodied Armada, Mew2King, and Zero. Since I was such a casual back then, and only watched a few majors, I could be totally misremembering the head2head stats of Emukiller vs. the other top players. Which player did have the best track record in the 3.02 days?
Emukiller definitely isn't the goat of PM. He won SKTAR 3 and nothing else. ZeRo has CEO, Zenith, GUTS, TBH4. In the 2nd half of 2014, he just didn't lose
can confirm pit was braindead and I could get away with just dthrow up air spam. The days of seeing constant pm streams give me fond memories How would you rate sonic among these oppressive 4? I remember him being quite the menace back then
Great vid as always. Got into pm during 2.6 and the heady days of 3.02 wall of Din's Fire mines made me into the degenerate Zelda main I am today. PM is dead; long live PM
Very fond memories of playing this with my best friend on my hacked wii at day and watching m2k vs sethlon on a slow laptop at night with greasy dorito fingers
High skill and experience players still made Pit look godlike at the time: Darc, Gallo, Sosa, Malachi, Jaden (?) Pit was still VERY good, but required such a skillset/mindset to play. Not that you denied this, but there was never a dip in pit imo
I watched PM tournaments on vgbc, tourney and clash channels. I picked up Wario even more thanks to ReflexWonder, and Lucas cause of Hyperflame, Neon and Pink. Game was fun til Nintendo was like: "no no no Gimr!" Cancel it"
I won't lie to myself... I know who you are. The one who started it in a way... But... Right now I only have opinions on this video... That's my goal right now. ===== Lucas: Freeze SDI Multiplier Offense UP/PK OFFENSE! Kill throw... ===== Diddy: Bannana double which already existed this is not an effect of the game but an effect of the system changing that from defense to offense created this issue. Fair angle... Deep Kong... You have vods? ===== Pit: I always knew a character like this was Top Tier potential they just needed a few changes. Arrow. Damaging U-SPEC/Up-B. Swedish Sniper? ===== Mewtwo: Hover... So it already existed as a concept even before... I really thought it was exclusive to those 2 games... Mid screen Teleports... U-Throw still killin! Mew2King ===== Weaknesses: Diddy Item Game + Weight? Mewtwo Teleport reads. Pit dying off the top. ===== Where they ended up. Lucas: NO NOT THE SDI MULTIPLIER! Diddy: NO NOT The Banana! Pit: Pain. Mewtwo: Tail shortened No Not The Teleport Into Hover. Pink Fresh: ? EmuKiller: ??? Junebug: Expected fate. ========= Ya know I don't know if I agree that the Nerfs were deserved. I feel like there is an overuse of Nerfing as a concept in the community. I think many people have many reasons for why they want Nerfs but I think some misunderstand I think the point of Nerfing and the question of if it's really needed. If we have a Scale and it goes from 0-100 and this "Perfect Balance" People dream of is a 50. Then when you Nerf a character who is an 100 they most likely will still be above 50 or they might end up below it. Although if you Nerf all of them to a 40 while doing nothing about the 50's or past well it doesn't last long even if it ends up closer. And if you end up buffing all the 50's while making all the 100's 40's then all you did was flip the table. In this situation anyone who is under a 50 doesn't usually profit at all. Although even then Balance isn't this simple... There is something known as a "Counterpick" which I think exists not only in stage but character as well. Matchup charts and many other things. ===== Now before I continue do I think these characters should have been nerfed? Most likely yes. People don't think the same as they do today and if things were going like that nerfing them and buffing others or doing whatever spices things up for a game like this... Although I don't know if that's the end solution. ===== The easiest way to get to that balance is one no one most likely wants which is stripping away all sense of things being unique. Hell I thought of the idea of if you still had slightly unique movesets but most things might have remained the same with options like strong moves are slow but powerful and fast moves are weak all across the cast regardless of how the move looks and it's hitbox. It still felt boring. I know some people that say this version or versions before were the funniest time of this community and it really shows that Nerfs can certainly effect fun. You lose something you had and Buffs are crazy because you gain something you never had. Yeah I might have stolen that from Core-A/Armada or whoever reacted to that video. If I were to reference that video and say the "Extreme Cases" parts of Nerfs the only one that I think would need to be Extremely nerfed or more than the others is Mewtwo. I might be Bias as I like Lucas and don't overly care for the other 2 but it seems like they are portrayed as the strongest or most consistent. Even then... --- I really just don't know. Do I have an answer to the issue of Buffs vs Nerfs and Balance in Fighting games? No! Although I know I'll spend whatever time I have left looking and maybe there is no answer or none that would work for everyone because so many things are different especially between every game.
Played PM for hours and hours with my buddies at my old house. My one buddy always played Ike and Zelda and they were super annoying back then. I miss Divekick Metaknight Dair
Honestly, I just want them to bring back Fox's one-frame intangibility on shine. I have zero idea why they took that out. Also, if I recall correctly, 3.02 Link was pretty damn good, though nobody played him because people always seem to want to sleep on Link. lol
Miss how big and common the streams were back then. Could pretty much watch pm live whenever you wanted
Same 🙃
We're hoping that we'll get a sort of comeback there with what we're doing with REMIX. Tourneys are happening but it's a shame it's mostly post event VODs that are the only means of engagement.
I do indeed miss that.
Man! These were the days! Going to a massive local melee/pm tournament, then almost everyone going to a homies house for a big fest right after, while a tournament streams melee/pm. Just fun days
Ye
Man I wish PM was allowed at huge tournaments.
There's shadow majors at every big tourney which is cool
But yeah unfortunate :(
I'd kill to go back in time to the smash scene during this era. both melee and PM were the 2 most played games and the hype was unreal. the scene was absolutely massive and everyone was in love with smash. now I'm a melee player who is just waiting for the next melee-esque modern plat fighter to capture me...
Rivals 2 had a trailer recently if you haven't seen it. They're bringing back ledges, shield and grabs so it looks a lot more like PM than the first one
sick one, got really into the game from watching xanadu-era and started as a lucas main, always nice to see old names get honored
o shit you were a xanadu kid? didn't know that.
glad you liked it man, as a fellow oldhead i have to honor my roots lol
@@arJunebugSmash yee, me and res were reminiscing at FnB2, both of us fondly remembered jewchainz's verse in his song lmfao
One thing you didn't cover was Lucas's grab, Lucas's dash grab in 3.0 had a hitbox that covered both his body even behind him and the snake for the entire duration. Why they thought this grab was a good idea I don't know
It also beat a spotdodge even if u were doing it after reacting to the grab LMAO
Oh hell naw you didn’t just do the where are they now epilogue for this video
10/10
LMAOOOOO
We artistic out here Walt
@@arJunebugSmash will pay for a video on sosa
Oh god I forgot that Diddy fair used to be Sheik angle
yeah ... uh he needed it?
As jank as all the characters were, I give the devs props for literally making Roy and Mewtwo playable. I was super hyped and looked forward to 3.0 back in the day.
It was a different meta back in the day but it was important for the scene.
Even Melee Mewtwo has always been just a couple tweaks from being legit good
The good ol' days, I've never been ride or day for this specific version of the game but the energy and community around the game at the time really was like nothing else. Truly the Golden Era
Love these video essays man, and I love talkin' about platform fighter game design and balance with ya too! Great work :3
thanks fudgepop!
Fudgepop?
I wonder...
Can we all agree that Lucas, Diddy, Pit, and Mewtwo is the coolest top tier list you could possibly grab from brawl (okay maybe snake should be there too)
aw hell naw don't tell me Red Marth got to Junebug
I remember watching PM Vods when i first started to get into competitive smash, this version of PM will always have a special place in my heart
Great video homie, very nostalgic. :)
Just casually leaving out link mario and sonic from your big 4 list. i see you June.
I remember seeing that famous Neon vs M2K set for the first time, not knowing what PM was or even the competitive Smash scene at large. I had only kind of gotten into Smash 4 at that point but decided right then and there that Lucas was the coolest fucking character in existence and wanted to main him. Imagine my joy when he was announced as DLC
3.02 era will always be remembered. such an exciting time to be a player
great videos as always junebug
I started since 1.0, really getting into it in 2.6. 3.02 was weird for me since I hated how imbalanced it was, and at the time preferred melee to it, even though I liked playing PM more. Then 3.5 dropped and I LOVED the nerfs, but that + smash 4 + nintendo threats killed a big chunk of the scene's momentum. Now P+ is my favorite smash game, and while I enjoyed the 3.02 days, I'm also glad the days of that gameplay are gone. I just wish the scene was the same.
I think it is also worth mentioning in 3.02, Pit's d tilt had a meteor hitbox on it, so it beat CC outright. It made scrapping with him even harder. I'm also curious if these top 4 would have stayed the same if more time developed. At least as an MK main, I feel like there was so much MK mains didn't know about back then that would have made him more threatening. And surely there are other characters that went untapped.
Thank you for making these videos and keeping the PM/P+ interest up.
-JELLY
I started at 3.6 beta so a lot of the 3.0 footage looks like some crazy fever dream
@@SSJPENGUIN It was the wild west of balance and meta development for sure.
Great video! Skimmed the comments for this, and I'm sure it wasn't your intention, but jasper goes by Vi now FYI
Put that in the description after someone DMed me about it
PM 3.0 Lucas was sick, he's what got me into pm and competitive smash
Never would have gotten into smash the way i am now if it wasn't for pm
Also A brawl minus balance philosophy for a custom build of project plus with all the content and quality of life stuff in p+ 2.29 would be phenomenal
3.02 Mewtwo tail looks the the Blooper limbs you have to grab in Sunshine
Never watched competetive project M because I started with smash 4 so I didn't know who you were. Something I love about these types of analysis videos are when there's the use of "I". Like watching the history of a speedrun hits different when you hear "That's when I got the world record" or "I discovered" 4:55 I loved the video and I loved that you were able to include yourself
Great vid. Love your personal commentary
Man, that Xanadu era of PM 3.0 brings back so many memories. Right when I was getting into smash and hot off the documentary, you could find people of every smash background coming together every Tuesday night for banger tournaments and fire commentary. Legitimately thousands of people watching a weekly tournament. Despite the characters being broken I think we all had fond memories of that era. Those were the days.
wake up babe, new junebug video essay just dropped
Remember when Sonic had a 8 frame invul Shine Spin Dash? Those were the times
Got into smash because of 3.02 in 2014, it was quite possibly the biggest part of my college years. Mostly play melee now thanks to rollback and most of my friends not playing anymore... fingers crossed they can get p+ rollback working sooner rather than later. Pm will always be my first love ❤
PM Snake with his crazy ass setups is the most fun I’ve had in Smash. Nothing like c4ing an off stage enemy to shoot them up only to fair spike them back down.
Charizard’s gameplay is also a favorite.
I miss PM’s era.
the choke cord is back in 2022... redmarth returns...
Lucas also had a psi freeze magnet, shooting out pk freeze while moving and then psi shielding would drag you to the pk freeze. 💪
I joined the community in 3.5 but always enjoyed watching some of the more legendary 3.02 sets
the Seagull Joe shade at the end XD
All sorts of characters were so fun in 3.0 PM, i personally loved old Zelda where she got 3 side B's for area denial and fun combo setups. I have great and salty memories alike from early PM
It's pretty great to see that you're still around, sad I missed these videos for so long.
The scene overall chose nintendo over themselves, can't say I ever agreed with that call but don't blame vgbootcamp and others for chasing their livelihood. I also can't blame the dev's for wanting to play it safe when Nintendo began to flash their trademarked, now all too common, utter contempt for their own fans.
PM was something really special, P+ is great but I just can't help being a bit heartbroken over what could have been.
Thanks for the nostalgia and memories
-- an old, old ass lurker, spammer, essay-writer of the PM smashboard.
I think all the old PM heads are a little traumatized over what transpired but some of us are still around
I do wish that we lived in the reality where Big N embraced us, woulda been sick
This was awesome to see as someone who got into PM during the 2.1 days and reliving the rise and peaks we got to back around 2010-2011. Haven't played since 3.5 (why did they nerf Ganon's nair?!) but this makes me wanna pick up P+
Ganon's got a FLOAT
the where are they now is gold
I remember Me and cousin spends hours trying to put project m and super smash bros infinite on my wii. Those were some good times.
youtube didn't give me the notif for this video so i learned u dropped it by truckerhat malding abt the lucas section
I really miss these days. Was always so wild to me if you went to a Xanadu pm weekly you had to deal with chillin, pink, boss, you. Smashg0d, seagull and more all just for a weekly lmfao. Probs won’t forget going 0-2 at my first smash tourney after my first tourney match was against pink in 3.0 lmao. Real glory days
I was in high school when Brawl came out. Now, I have a soft spot for the game and the fun that my friends and I had with it, but when Project Melee came out, it seemed like it changed EVERYTHING. Brawl instantly was retired, and we were all learning all sorts of tech and how to play Smash. I have very fond memories of PM
Wow I love Lucas 🥺 Great video
banger
Eyy thanks Lz
Ayyy the boy who lived, bitch
Great video! I didn't realize how busted those characters really were
The Good Ol Days
it really was
PM was very popular when I was doing my bachelors at a University. It was such a good time in my life.
The original game that got me into smash. It will always have a place in my heart.
I started in 2.6 and this really brings back memories. Tough times for a Bowser main, especially when one of my practice buddies mained Lucas lol
u have easily some of the best smash content, great video
Nice, this was a neat blast from the past! Definitely good references for my fellow REMIX devs when it comes our rosters balance and updates!
First time a video has asked me to subscribe and I have.
Maybe cause it wasn't the first thing said haha wish more RUclipsrs were creative with their plug. Loved the video
3.0.2 was literally the best iteration. every character was just broken and it was super fun to both watch and play
When talking about diddy walling I'm surprised you didn't use the great clip of boss vs squeak where he trips like 6 times into death lmao
EE saying SQUEAK THO as he rages and punches the table
LMAO that was a great moment
can't find a clip of it unfortunately
@@mlv5746 ruclips.net/video/1JMdXr1fcOA/видео.html
0:55
Whole game is on the reupload channel, played on
09/30/14
@@rz6711 thanks
Shout out to Ivysaur my mans held it down in PM before PT came back in ult
I cant wait for switch modding to take off and get some sort of project m for ultimate's massive roster
I miss PM. Smash was never the same after it died. When brawlback comes out it will see a glorious comeback.
I mean the "golden era of overpowered smash characters" was definitely Smash 64, where 90% of the cast has guaranteed 0 to deaths on 90% of the cast unless you have wizzrobe-tier SDI (at which point it goes down to like 60%)
Lucas was really fun! I played him a lot at a play & trade a lot back when those were a thing.
The "where are they now" section had me feeling like these characters died for real
PM Lucas sounds sick, why couldn't he have been like that Ultimate?
Love your vids as a newish player to the scene ive learned so much thanks for the great videos!
Considering that the low and bottom tiers are at least playable, it's still more balanced than Melee.
S/o to Ike double side b wall jumps.. those were the days
That mewtwo cry taunt is amazing we need mewtwo cry in the main game
its wild to me to see how much our animations and effects have improved since 3.0! 3.0 pit in particular looks so weird lmao
Wanna make junebug happy? Give diddy another banana
I remember watching PM sometimes at majors back in the day. Shit was broken af.
but fun!
Very true.
you forgot to mention backair-saur and cracked sonic, but I liked this. this was the era that got me back into the smash and PM is still my preferred game because I just love Wario so damn much.
3.0 and 3.02 just hit different. 3.6 is probably my second favorite smash game of all time, behind final patch s4. While the top 4 was undisputed, the cast was still pretty solidly balanced and the game just felt good.
That being said, 3.02 chu kirby needs a spotlight on the channel at some point. If you know, you know
Brawl Minus is still my favorite mod. Every character is amazing and fun.
3.0 was prime smash era
I remember watching Neon play Lucas all the time back in the day.
That awkward feeling when you know Sonic was absolutely bonkers in 3.02 and somehow still managed to not peak into the top 5.
please be happier ♥
Junebug off topic question, but if Diddy Kong came to the 64 Mod Smash Remix would you play that Competitively?
God damn this brings back good memories
Another banger June vid
Hot-take: part of me feels like Emukiller is really the GOAT of PM. Why? Because when PM was biggest, Emukiller was the best.
Note: It was PM that first got me into competitive Smash, so I was a moron back then. But I remember m2k complaining that Emukiller was getting carried by Mewtwo (which he was), but no matter how much he practiced, Emukiller still bodied Armada, Mew2King, and Zero.
Since I was such a casual back then, and only watched a few majors, I could be totally misremembering the head2head stats of Emukiller vs. the other top players. Which player did have the best track record in the 3.02 days?
Emukiller definitely isn't the goat of PM. He won SKTAR 3 and nothing else. ZeRo has CEO, Zenith, GUTS, TBH4. In the 2nd half of 2014, he just didn't lose
Damn… didn’t think I needed this nostalgia today 😭
That’s why I only use pro controllers or solo wiimotes. Fire video again like always
Honorable mentions: ivy, toon link, metaknight
Great video!
can confirm pit was braindead and I could get away with just dthrow up air spam. The days of seeing constant pm streams give me fond memories
How would you rate sonic among these oppressive 4? I remember him being quite the menace back then
I would say top 5 considering that he was top 10 in 3.6, and his recovery and down b were broken in 3.02
Great vid as always. Got into pm during 2.6 and the heady days of 3.02 wall of Din's Fire mines made me into the degenerate Zelda main I am today. PM is dead; long live PM
Very fond memories of playing this with my best friend on my hacked wii at day and watching m2k vs sethlon on a slow laptop at night with greasy dorito fingers
Makes me think what the meta game would have looked like if development for PM stopped here.
High skill and experience players still made Pit look godlike at the time: Darc, Gallo, Sosa, Malachi, Jaden (?) Pit was still VERY good, but required such a skillset/mindset to play. Not that you denied this, but there was never a dip in pit imo
As a Lucas main, I approve of PM 3.0 d-air
I watched PM tournaments on vgbc, tourney and clash channels. I picked up Wario even more thanks to ReflexWonder, and Lucas cause of Hyperflame, Neon and Pink. Game was fun til Nintendo was like: "no no no Gimr!" Cancel it"
Don’t forget that 2.5 sonic was broken too I wonder how good 2.5 sonic in project m 3.0
Never forget Wizzrobe destroying everyone 😂
God all I want is a sick Lucas again
Would love to see you talk about GnW Snake and wolf at their heights
The M stands for recovery
Purely as a spectator, i miss 3.0 pit and lucas
I won't lie to myself...
I know who you are.
The one who started it in a way...
But...
Right now I only have opinions on this video...
That's my goal right now.
=====
Lucas:
Freeze
SDI Multiplier
Offense UP/PK OFFENSE!
Kill throw...
=====
Diddy:
Bannana double which already existed this is not an effect of the game but an effect of the system changing that from defense to offense created this issue.
Fair angle...
Deep Kong...
You have vods?
=====
Pit:
I always knew a character like this was Top Tier potential they just needed a few changes.
Arrow.
Damaging U-SPEC/Up-B.
Swedish Sniper?
=====
Mewtwo:
Hover...
So it already existed as a concept even before...
I really thought it was exclusive to those 2 games...
Mid screen Teleports...
U-Throw still killin!
Mew2King
=====
Weaknesses:
Diddy Item Game + Weight?
Mewtwo Teleport reads.
Pit dying off the top.
=====
Where they ended up.
Lucas:
NO NOT THE SDI MULTIPLIER!
Diddy:
NO NOT The Banana!
Pit:
Pain.
Mewtwo:
Tail shortened
No Not The Teleport Into Hover.
Pink Fresh: ?
EmuKiller: ???
Junebug: Expected fate.
=========
Ya know I don't know if I agree that the Nerfs were deserved.
I feel like there is an overuse of Nerfing as a concept in the community.
I think many people have many reasons for why they want Nerfs but I think some misunderstand I think the point of Nerfing and the question of if it's really needed.
If we have a Scale and it goes from 0-100 and this "Perfect Balance" People dream of is a 50.
Then when you Nerf a character who is an 100 they most likely will still be above 50 or they might end up below it.
Although if you Nerf all of them to a 40 while doing nothing about the 50's or past well it doesn't last long even if it ends up closer.
And if you end up buffing all the 50's while making all the 100's 40's then all you did was flip the table.
In this situation anyone who is under a 50 doesn't usually profit at all.
Although even then Balance isn't this simple...
There is something known as a "Counterpick" which I think exists not only in stage but character as well.
Matchup charts and many other things.
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Now before I continue do I think these characters should have been nerfed?
Most likely yes. People don't think the same as they do today and if things were going like that nerfing them and buffing others or doing whatever spices things up for a game like this...
Although I don't know if that's the end solution.
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The easiest way to get to that balance is one no one most likely wants which is stripping away all sense of things being unique.
Hell I thought of the idea of if you still had slightly unique movesets but most things might have remained the same with options like strong moves are slow but powerful and fast moves are weak all across the cast regardless of how the move looks and it's hitbox.
It still felt boring.
I know some people that say this version or versions before were the funniest time of this community and it really shows that Nerfs can certainly effect fun.
You lose something you had and Buffs are crazy because you gain something you never had.
Yeah I might have stolen that from Core-A/Armada or whoever reacted to that video.
If I were to reference that video and say the "Extreme Cases" parts of Nerfs the only one that I think would need to be Extremely nerfed or more than the others is Mewtwo.
I might be Bias as I like Lucas and don't overly care for the other 2 but it seems like they are portrayed as the strongest or most consistent.
Even then...
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I really just don't know.
Do I have an answer to the issue of Buffs vs Nerfs and Balance in Fighting games?
No!
Although I know I'll spend whatever time I have left looking and maybe there is no answer or none that would work for everyone because so many things are different especially between every game.
love u junebug love u project m
peace n love on earth
Damn junebug is Madien-less. Wild
Played PM for hours and hours with my buddies at my old house. My one buddy always played Ike and Zelda and they were super annoying back then. I miss Divekick Metaknight Dair
Honestly, I just want them to bring back Fox's one-frame intangibility on shine. I have zero idea why they took that out. Also, if I recall correctly, 3.02 Link was pretty damn good, though nobody played him because people always seem to want to sleep on Link. lol