There is nothing like playing DS1 for the first time, and you feel like you been exploring for hours, find an elevator, and suddenly realise you are back at firelink. Mind was blown. Also got to say that I agree with ER on top. The visuals are just stunning. Fast travel from the getgo was a must when the scales get this large. Also had the same reaction when I got into an elevator in Liurnia and ended up in the underworld. Thought the game was incredibly large as it was, then realise there are just so much more.
Yep. This. As soon as I got that elevator from the church back to fire link, I knew it would be one of my fav games of all time. I also agree ER still deserves top spot.
I love how this is probably the one most memorable moment share by everyone in the community, going in completely blind in DkS1 as a Soul newbie is just an experience that could not be replicate.
Not only that. Many games let you "rebuild" the once destroyed central hub. Ds1 let's you feel the impirtance of your actions as you recover part of the workd and revive firelink shrine as its heart. It's not just "i saved that guy and now he chills there". It's more "I restored the ancient link between the heart of the world and his branches and see the workd vhange accordingly". A testament to what you can narrate through games
@@apophisstr6719 but for some reason everyone seems to forget that this never happens again after the two bells and the design goes to shit after ornstein and smough, cool elevator though
it also helps just how dense elden ring's map is. Almost anywhere you go, you'll find *something* to do, and there are so many small areas off the beaten path that you could go a whole playthrough without ever finding
The video is about world design... which he explains what it is according to his view... So I guess he thinks DS3 has amazing level design, but the world is too linear, making it feel less like a world. I think thats it...
You can see the cathedral of the deep, Faron keep, irythill, and even arch dragon peak on a mountain from the bonfire after Vordts fight. Feels like a tie in to DS1s design being able to see so many areas from fire link and undead parish
@@MLWJ1993 this is false. While DS3 does have some iffy placements, most are relatively good. DS1 also has some iffy placements. In the end it doesn't matter, they just want it to look good, no normal person looks at far away locations in the distance and goes "Hmm i wonder if those are in the exact right place, let me get a noclip and find out."
@@thedudeofnothing7378 Someone actually overlaid the LOD's with the actual map for DS3. Most important locations were not at all where they should be in other maps. Something that wasn't the case in DS1 to such a significant degree. So no, it's true. Placement is far more incorrect in DS3 than in DS1. However there's enough fanboys going around for DS3 that would scream false at any and all valid critique on their beloved game.
@markjacobs1086 it's almost as if it isn't meant to be overlaid because it is meant to be rendered separately to create the FEELING that it is connected through visuals rather than trying to get a dev cam and point fingers. I see way more DS3 haters like yourself bringing up irrelevant information trying to discredit the games strengths like this than so-called "fanboys"
@@matmil5 Weak argument on your end... LOD's are meant for saving performance. If you'd want an area to be seen a certain way from a certain area in the map, why not create it that way. I also don't "hate" DS3, that's putting words in my mouth that I never uttered. It's just the weakest game of the 3 in my opinion, it's perfectly valid for you to like it more than I do. That doesn't mean it's completely immune to critique from others.
The best instance of interconnectivity in fromsoft games was in DS2 when you take an elevator up from a windmill to a lava sunken castle. Top notch. Wonder why it wasn’t higher in the list.
Agree that Ashina is the most underrated Fromsoft world. You forgot to add that depending on the order you do the later game areas it will change which type of shadow enemies get added to certain spots (like if you do the depths early then Mibu villagers will spawn, if you do it late there will be Tengu warriors in the mist area, etc).
Sekiro is such a tightly designed game. you never feel bored playing it. EVER. you can do as much as you want and skip almost every enemy if you feel like it. its up to you. the linear games allow for way more replay value. a big open world game is daunting because youve gotta do everything you like and sometimes a lot you dont like too.
It feels wrong that linearity is a category in world design. Just because I can go to the last boss the moment I step out of the tutorial doesn’t make the world well designed. That’s great for gameplay and player agency, but I fail to see the connection. We read stories and lore that follow a path that is not of our choosing that have some of the best worlds we’ve seen and can imagine through various forms of media. Many examples im sure can be drawn up in a moment. You make the exact point when comparing DS2 to DS3. If immersion breaks, how is the world design better?
I’ve personally only heard people argue this topic when it comes to soulsborne games If linearity is done well then why is it considered worse or less than interconnected/open worlds I love the linearity of DS3 because it feels like a set journey and I’m on a mission, I’ve got a goal to go to with the occasional backtrack And I love DS1s open world design because I could go to certain areas whenever I wanted and go on an adventure that’s just mostly backtracking
@@eeyorebenji2836 I'm confused how DS1 is considered "open" or "interconnected". Most loop arounds are nothing more than quick ways to the beginning of a different region. You can't really go in any direction you want since the objective off the bad is to get to Anor Londo; which prior to going their, you are stopped at every location by a huge wall telling you that you cannot progress, so until you unlock fast traveling, you are stuck back tracking. Despite people claiming the game is great, it actually is largely flawed due to its poorly designed world falsely advertising freedom.
@@frstudio3640The First half of the map Is completely interconnected in DS1. From the start I can go to the undead basement, to the undead church, to petit Londo, to the forest, to blightown, to the catacomb and to the lake of cinder. It's the best map from has ever done, the Freedom Is real.
To me a perfect mix would be a smaller open world with more, but WAY deeper legacy dungeons stacked on each other. So like gigantic Majula with many different sub sections of different scalings with their own paths
I'm probably insane for even knowing this, but something that deeply fascinates me about Elden Ring's map is that the geography seems to have been determined by the way they chose to position characters and key locations. This was seemingly done to reinforce the lore itself. This is partly why I think the map has a sort of circular shape, as opposed to something more sprawling, traditional of open worlds. For example: Rennala, the Church of Vows, the Erdtree (and thus Radagon/Marika), the Forge of the Giants, and the moon itself are perfectly aligned. This makes sense, owing to the lore of Radagon's marriage to Rennala, which joined the houses of the Erdtree and the Full Moon, while fettering the stars to the Golden Order. This is just one of many such examples. As it turns out, many of the stone astrolabes scattering the overworld appear to point toward and away from key characters or locations, such as the large one next to the Church of the Plague where Millicent is found, which directly faces the chest containing the Valkyrie's Prosthesis found all the way in the Shaded Castle, far beyond the player's sight. So far, I've found at least a couple dozen examples of such alignments, but I've never seen anyone else make mention of it, so I dunno, maybe I really am just crazy, lol. It's mighty suspicious, though.
I keep on getting amazed at how expansive the lore of Elden Ring is. Just earlier today I found out that the left foot of Godrick actually is Niall/O'Neil's foot, and why that is/could be. (Lots of the implicated lore stuff is fan speculation, but has so much concrete evidence in the game)
@@Merczid Oooh, I never heard this theory before, but already the wheels are turning in my head and seeing why that would actually make sense! After all, Godrick did challenge Malenia's army, and he also employs Exiles/Banished Knights as his personal footsoldiers... This is the kind of stuff that keeps me coming back to the game, lol.
One thing that is severely disregarded on ER, because you know "if It has to find the story It means It has no story". One of the coolest examples is this. The nameless Eternal City is one of the most interest places on ER. It has no backstory, It is formed on ruins and Resident are almost nonexistent compared to Nokron. So, whats their origin, Who made these ruins and why on a place as this? The answer is very simple, we just have to toggle the *map* . Nameless City is located under a Big hole close to the Erdtree. Which is also close to Godwin corpse, which has Fame of eroding the floor and corrupting everything It touches. Well, whats happen when we open the map? Leyndell? And everything makes sense now. The nameless City is not more than a part of Leyndell, destroyed by Deathroot influence, is technically the most Modern of all Cities. And all of this without any information. Elden Ring relies a lot of his world design in order to tell a great part of the Lore, using It open world at his advantage. Like ER or not, this is pretty Damn awesome.
I love Ds1 but Ds1 fanboys are delusional and tend to overpraise the heck out of the game. The second half is atrocious and even so they tend to downplay its negative aspects and highlight the good ones. Up until Anor Londo the game is phenomenal, but the endgame really affects que overall quality
I absolutely loved Dark Souls 1 yet I felt like Anor Londo was really small for what we got to explore. I understand that it was limitations of the time but if it ever got a remake I would be head over heels for a much more massive Anor Londo to explore maybe even new lore and bosses to flesh the world out even more.
No lie at the start of my very 1st playthrough of Ds3 I was lost for an hour or two trying to figure out where to go after Firelink Shrine until I eventually looked it up, granted I had only really played Ds1 before so I don't know if I was even aware I could warp between bonfires yet much less to a whole new area
I was lost for like 5 minutes before i gave up and looked it up. I wont deny, it was super disorientating having to tp to the first proper area right off the get-go instead of naturally walking into it like DS1 and DS2. Sorta weird but it was a great joruney regardles!
I 1000% believe that Shadow Of The Erdtree is going to be the peak of open world gaming experiences we have ever seen. From has had the time, the resources and the feedback to cook properly and I have a feeling they are going to deliver on and exceed all expectations.
see i love elden ring but to me i dont think they really innovated on open world design. they just took the a lot of the standard formulas that worked for open world games, did away with stupid side activities and instead put the things we love in those places (Bosses, Armor, Weapons, Lore, and Story) B.A.W.L.S. lmao. and then they put it in a standard open world but what they chose to populate it with was so compelling that we call it the peak of open world when really this game could succeed outside of the open world format. The open world isn't what truly makes it great. It's the big ass BAWLS. you feel me?! There just arent towers to open the map or other ubi-shit tendencies but since the dark souls formula is so good and there is such a high demand for it, it succeeds. They also have zero microtransactions. They're smart enough to adapt their style to open world and not just haphazardly do it, people call it the peak of open world design but their are a lot of areas that are horrendous like the tombs and other bog standard dungeon types or re-used bosses. Honestly i think they just barely squeaked by. you can see that the game got really unwieldy and Miyazaki even speaks on this in interviews. it's still a legendary game but i think the specific praises i hear heaped on it all the time are just inaccurate. It deserves heaps of praise for its combat, its minute to minute gameplay, little things like eliminating "the walk back" or flasks being re-charged after a large encounter etc. a lot of small things that add up. Some of the things it doesnt do well is that the main instigators of the story have zero screentime in any cutscene or lore. I think in this game thats a mistake. i think it'd be safer to say that Elden Ring adapted very well to the open world template but it also lost a lot in the process of becoming open world. It would succeed in either format because the content itself is fun and engaging with the game and not doing content is also fun. lots of other open worlds fail at this. if youre not doing content, it becomes banal. They had such a strong base for this game that open world might've even hampered it in some ways. I hope they hire more developers to this company so that the next game doesn't cause them problems. and even with this criticism, i'd still call it a legendary game. every legendary game has faults but it's hard to talk about them because people love the game so much.
ER is far from peak open would design, there’s hardly any reason to fight enemies in the open world unless you grinding for gear. ER is definitely the best looking game in the series ohh and don’t even get me started on reused assets
I see people comment this stuff all the time and I'm not digging at their opinion, that's totally their experience and subjective, but I think that it sets people up for disappointment. No matter the game there's always people I see who got let down because of their expectations being too high, too specific or unrealistic.
A big thing for me is verticality. Ds2 does this really well with the gutter, as you really feel like you’re at the bottom of the world in a place you feel like you’re not supposed to be. Blight town is another good example of this
@@nicola4251 From most vertical to least it's prolly DS1 - ER - BB (if you count nightmares that are stacked on each other) - DS3 - BB (if you only count Yharnam) - DS2 - DeS No clue about Sekiro because I've not finished it yet.
I think Dark Souls 1 map is a piece of art, just like DS 3. I'd say I prefer connected maps, but elden ring was a breath of fresh air in the monotonous market of open world that became parodies of themselves with their sprawling-but-empty proceduraly-generated maps. The moniker of "walking-simulator" is rightly deserved for most modern open world games. Elden Ring tackles it perfectly by having a handcrafted map with non-random loot and treasures. A feature Morrowind had twenty years ago... and TES games since Oblivion Shed sadly.
Elden Ring has it all. Demon’s Souls is the prettiest (aside from ER), Dark Souls has the best map layout, Bloodborne has the best atmosphere, & Sekiro is a close second.
i loved playing lies of P and seeing how much they took from the interconnectivity from ds1. The elevator back up to the hotel from the zombie levels is absolutely insane. and being able to see the past levels on the bridge of atonement was crazy. such nice level design.
Yeah, no. In LoP they just did those intralevel shortcut loops. Somewhere in a level you find some shortcut back to the bonfire. Some levels do this quite well in LoP. That is all inside a single level, but that isn't really what made DS1 so unique. BB also does this as an example. The actual world progression and story of LoP is almost completely straight line. You have to visit every level in the game in the exact same order. In some sense this path crosses itself, but those crossings have no mechanical importance. The only thing you can change is whether you fight some of the bosses on this path like the Black Cat or Nameless Puppet. That is completely different in DS1. Once you beat the tutorial the world opens up so much. It has so many optional and even hidden areas. You can do things in so many different orders and through different routes and the world fits together unbelievably well. Then all progression paths converge again at Sens fortress and into Anor Londo (with a possible detour still). At that point you must reach 4 areas at the edge of the "progression map" that don't have any meaningful interconnectivity anymore, but it still forces you to reach the edges. And then everything converges back again for the final area and boss.
@user-ky8nd2rz4f I liked LoP a lot. The bosses are definitely very good and I also liked many of the small new mechanics they added. However I always have a hard time ranking any of the newer games against DS1. DS1 just has the best world design of any soulslike that makes a first playthrough and even subsequent playthroughs so unique. At the same time the new games just have more engaging combat and better bosses. They offer different experiences. For raw combat LoP is definitely better, but I wouldn't say LoP is better than DS1.
The thing that makes me prefer Elden rings level/world design over ds1 is the fact that not only does it have a drop dead georgeous open world..but it also has legacy dungeons that are akin to some of dark souls level design with some of them having their multiple shortcuts but also open endedness to get to your destination in multiple ways from the get go WITHOUT having to first unlock said alternative paths. That and the fact that DS1s second half has some areas with awful level design.
I haven’t watched the video yet, not have I watched any of your content ever, and I’ll tell you I’m excited for this vid, but oh my god is the name “Chad of Astora” such a metal name that I just subbed immediately.
For me it will always be Dark Souls. Nothing will ever beat the feeling of taking that elevator in the Undead Parish and realizing you’re back at Firelink Shrine. Or going up through Blighttown and getting back to New Londo
One thing I’ll say about Elden Ring I’m that I can’t about others is the amount of secret stuff I found upon subsequent playthroughs. I am a thorough explorer due to having a completionist mindset, but even so there were little areas of the lands between that I just missed, like Jarburg. It’s cool when you think you’ve seen it all and get kinda sad, but then suddenly there’s a new place to discover all over again
non linear isnt always better than linear, its simply a different style of game, all of from's levels are linear but in a way in which the player doesnt realise it because if they werent linear and the intended path was one among many these levels would be bad, people think non linear is better because linear games have gotten a bad rep due to recent releases and elden ring blew up non linearity
I do love a lot of linear games, it’s just that fromsoft likes to dabble in giving you multiple choices with their worlds which I find fun and adds to the experience
I agree one isnt inherently better but non linear in soulsborne ring shadows die twice is definitely a better experience and lends itself very well to multiple playthroughs having freedom to go in whatever order you want. The only real benefit linearity has in souls is a more curated difficulty curve, which is a strong benefit ill admit
i kind of want to completely agree but i think pulling off GREAT world design with too strict or not strict enough linear progression can't hurt the purpose of the world design, which is to invest you in it. you'll always be invested in the world that actually feels like a world and isn't just a corridor that's has to keep up a facade of having more under the veil, that's why those moments where you go to those artificial walls saying something like "oh go get the 5 boss things so you can continue" breaks so much immersion and totally gives you the "oh well this is definetely a game" but it's not impossible to have very immersive not too strict nor too open linear design, take about every horror game as an example, like Amnesia the Bunker, that game has a lot of those walls but they never feel like a game designer put those there because you can choose which wall to tackle first, you could go for an amplitude of choices to tackle on your own accord, and that really helps the immersion of a game imo it's more of a balance really, too linear and you have a mario game, that is clearly a game, too open and you will eventually have to put those walls that clearly sell that is also just a game (unless you're Breath of the Wild and totally flip that on itself), so a balance of those two aspects is better of a choice really
Ds1 most interconnected Ds2 most interesting ideas and a cool branching world Ds3 a journey from graves to ash a journey through and through Sekiro much like ds2 branching paths but ending with a constant changes to prior areas feeling like a changing world Elden ring- massive open world with so much to find and see Bloodborne & demon souls- too poor to play but ik bloodborne has a cool medical basis for a lot of areas while demon souls is more structured in design.
I’d say shadow of the erdtree probably had the best design in terms of levels and areas so far, perfect combo of the interconnected levels that double back on themselves, huge sprawling open world, and then the added huge amount of verticality
I definitely would put Bloodborne over Sekiro at least. I loved seeing stuff like how the Forbidden Woods connect to Central Yharnam through that ladder, and Darkbeast Paarl connecting to old Yharnam was pretty neat. Of course, since you have “fast travel” (it’s really slow travel on Bloodborne because you have to go back to the hub then travel where you want to go), they’re not nearly as useful as they are in DS1, but I definitely think the world deserves some credit over Sekiro’s (which I agree is underrated). Sekiro has some neat connection points, but the world itself feels much smaller than Bloodborne’s as it has fewer areas. Ashina Castle is reused multiple times as your main area to do quests in, as an example. The Nightmares in Bloodborne offer a cool spiritual realm, which Sekiro doesn’t really have outside maybe Fountainhead Palace to an extent. Another area Bloodborne deserves an advantage over Sekiro and even Elden Ring in: shortcuts and fewer checkpoints. Bloodborne follows that strict, early Fromsoft design of placing 1-2 checkpoints per level, but adding shortcuts to ensure the player never dies too far from the checkpoint (except Cainhurst lol). This forces Fromsoft to create more cohesive and interconnected designs in each level, as they no longer have the ability to just slap a checkpoint every 20 feet. Levels like fishing hamlet, central Yharnam, Old Yharnam, Mergo’s Loft/Nightmare of Mensis, and Research Hall are all great examples of how shortcuts force better level design out of the developers. I also think your point about Bloodborne’s areas feeling kinda “same-y” applies more to Sekiro than Bloodborne itself. Sekiro’s world is definitely the least creative overall as it sticks hard to the realistic, medieval Japan theme. Every area resembles Ashina Castle to an extent, except fountainhead which is supposed to be a heaven of sorts. Is this necessarily a bad thing? No, it sticks to the game’s theme and the visuals are still beautiful. But Bloodborne definitely has more variety thanks to the nightmares, the 3 DLC areas which are all distinct from each other, different times of day, and a more outlandish setting. Sekiro is awesome and I definitely think its world and level design are underrated. I would place it 4th on the list, but I think Bloodborne belongs in that top 3 with DS1 and Elden Ring. In fact, I feel like Bloodborne is the only other game that could’ve pulled off what DS1 did in having no fast travel for the first half.
I like how in Elden Ring, each area is its own kingdom. From Raya Lucaria to Volcano Manor to Leyndell, it feels like you are a conqueror that is steamrolling various kingdoms.
Good list! I definitely would have had ds1 at the top but I respect your placements. I find that online opinions on souls games have become very boss centric in recent years. It’s nice to see people discussing level design a bit more, I think it’s just as important.
Personally I think I would have put ds1 on top, but it's really hard to draw any comparison between ER and ds1. ER is the pinnacle of open world, horizontal world design in all of game development, but I think Dark Souls approaches that pinnacle for vertical world design, which is an underused design philosophy. Plus I am so glad you harped on how absolutely incredible the no fast travel aspect of dark souls is. I think departing from that aspect, and thus, falling into the pitfalls that having fast travel allows is one of the biggest mistakes that the franchise has committed. No zone in souls games since has managed to capture the crippling dread and disgust of being completely trapped in blighttown. Which only serves to make the ascent to Anor Londo all the more incredible and empowering. Heck, I think even firelink shrine is the only zone in the franchise that truly accomplishes the goal of making it feel like a safe place, a home. And so much of that comes from the genuine feeling of relief that you feel when you finally emerge back into the zone after traveling on these great journeys.
I think BB and Sekiro are interchangeable but I’d go along with this list. I was curious wondering whether DS1 or ER was gonna be first. I agree with your choice though it’s a tough one for me.
I like DS1's world design overall, but always found it a letdown how the world design's non-linearity is undermied by its progression systems. Pretty much every playthrough starts with beeline to Andre because he's the earliest you can unlock upgrading at bonfires and sells titanite shards, which appear naturally in the world very rarely. Another thing is that the Large Ember and all the early spell trainers are found in the Lower Undead Burg and early Depths. (The earliest trigger for Reah leaving Firelink Shrine is killing Capra Demon.) So you can't really skip Capa Demon. I've found myself doing alot of Faith builds in DS1 because they're one of the few builds really encouraged to go off the beaten path, by killing Moonlight Butterfly ASAP for the Divine Ember, and going to Tomb of the Giants early to rescue Reah.
Killing Pinwheel and getting a fire weapon from the start is as fast as getting to Andre. The 3 golden pine resines also remove the need of Andre until Sen fortress is opened
@@dearcastiel4667 Going down to the catacombs early is a huge hassle unless you just run past all the skeletons, and even then getting out is an even bigger hassle because there's no shortcuts to get back up. Locking yourself into the fire infusion is not good for a lot of builds (especially with how rare green titanite is before Sens), and three 60 second weapon buffs is not enough unless you're running past every enemy. I'm sure the routing you described can get you through the game, but requires you to go through the game in a very specific way that doesn't really work well for a lot of builds. You're going to have to kill Bell Gargoyles sooner or later anyway, so you might as well go to by far the the most convenient blacksmith that also sells an infinite amount of the titanite you need for most of the games infusion s.
I completely agree. I've played DS1 enough times to be able to go different routes than the standard, BUT outside of getting some items for your build, there's really no benefit to doing so. Therefore, every playthrough is straight through the burg/parish, down the depths to Quelaag, back to Sen's and finally Anor Lando.
@@toprak3479 I've farmed the slugs before, and it took forever. According to Fextrtralife, they have a 2.06% chance to drop 5 green titanite, and it takes 10-11 green titanite to fully upgrade a weapon. That's not what I would call easily farmable.
DS1 remains my favorite game of all time. Especially for layout. There are very close seconds from many Devs not just FROM however, hollow knight, many of the legend of Zelda games, rockstar games etc.
The more linear design of the three Dark Souls games compliments the Fromsoft philosophy of game design far better than Elden Ring's open world. The open world doesn't allow a developer to create interesting encounter scenarios like in previous games, because the player isn't restricted to a more limited space and can instead just run past enemy hordes. In a more linear game, a developer can construct encounters that are interesting because they can predict when/where the player is going to be. Additionally, because of how large Elden Ring's open world is, it seems to place items you find throughout the world in such a way that it feels more like they're just a checklist they're going through when placing such items. There isn't as much thought into placing items in areas where it makes sense why they'd be found there from a lore perspective. Hell, most items are just dropped off of the copy-and-paste bosses, and a lot of these items are not related to the bosses they drop from (like the Magma Wyrm dropping the Moonveil). Whereas in the Dark Souls games, items are found randomly in the world and you can visualize how they ended up where they are (like how you find armor/weapons on the corpses of people who tried to traverse those areas previously). And items are typically related to the enemy/boss you receive them from, instead of being chosen at random. Additionally, the open world makes it far too easy to miss many of the NPC questlines, as the developer has no way of knowing if a player will realistically find an NPC in a vast, open space. It is so easy to miss NPCs like Irina or Latenna even on their first encounter, and even easier to progress to the point of locking you out of questlines if you don't micromanage the world. In the Dark Souls games however, NPCs are placed in such a way that you are guaranteed to at least see/meet them when traveling along the paths that are given to you, making it so you realistically can't miss your first encounter with an NPC.
Seriously? You can't understand how could Moonveil be found in the hoard of Magma Wyrm in Caelid? People CAN bypass enemy groups = worse design? When in fact it's just adding an option how to progress the game? Yes, you can miss some quest lines easily in Elden Ring. Adds replay ability value. Also, when these quest lines introduce to you the whole new regions of the world (which you could also find by just exploring most of the time), I think, pros more than overweight cons.
Elden ring has open world perfectly imo due to legacy dungeons keeping that interconnected, complex level design. However the first half of DS1’ entire world being so interconnected is truly special. Both my favs.
If I had to compare the Dark Souls trilogy to another series, it'd be the DS Castlevanias, with DS1 and Dawn of Sorrow being the more properly interconnected Metroidvania maps, DS2 and Portrait of Ruin having you go into these branches with dead ends before heading back to find other branches, and DS3 and Order of Ecclesia being a more linear challenge going from one stage to the next with few branches but a very consistent difficulty curve. If you ask what the point of this is, it's the fact that Order of Ecclesia and Dark Souls 3 are my favorites for their respective franchises, and the rather linear nature works for me in this instance. I never felt ahead or behind of the game, the challenge was always just right. And I'd say the individual level design in each area is overall FromSoft at their best, the single bonfire design in Cathedral of the Deep/Grand Archives sticks with me consistently. While I miss the bigger area connections, the work within each area is really good for the most part.
I feel like this video is described as “which souls game has the best level design” but in reality I feel it’s more “which souls game world has the best connectivity”. Either way pretty good video
i also went to the tomb of the giants early in my first playthrough, before even going to blighttown. It sure as hell made it hard when i got almost one shot by those giant skeletons. Getting out of there was so difficult because of no fast travel, but that difficulty of actually being stuck in some kind of underground dungeon where the enemies are so much stronger than you add to the immersion so much. Getting out of their was a challenge worthy of comparing to many difficult bosses and is really what makes the game so special. It wasnt just the standard gameplay loop of going through and area getting to the boss and killing it then going to next area, it was about just exploring this unkown world where you couldnt teleport and really just had to find everything for yourself. I played ds1 after ds3 and elden ring, but in my opinion the first half of dark souls 1 for these reasons is probably the greatest gaming experience of all time.
I hate how formulaic game design has gotten. Its like we think that just because everywhere can branch into two or more areas makes it better game design.
Hey, something else to note from the Nightmare Frontier, is that you can see the nightmare of mensis in the distance after exiting the cave where the first lamp is. It's hard to spot but it's so cool.
After watching Illusionary Wall's video on Dark Souls 1's world layout and all of the technical illusions they did and how accurate the world actually is, I simply cannot get over it. It's become probably my favorite Dark Souls game because of it. It's just so cozy because how much detail there is. The world outside of Lordran straight up collapsing, literal dimensional rifts opening like Ash Lake. I cannot stress how cool it is.
My opinion connected all the way like playing dark souls 3 for the first time as I realize irithyll was the city right next to anor londo amazed me the connection of finding a starter zone right next to the end of the game the connections are just amazing
Elden Ring is massive, and for a lazy player like me that means I started last April and I haven't even entered the capital yet. There is just too much stuff to do (and I often don't play for several weeks). So now I'm at an awkward place of being lvl 120 without so much as killing my second shardbearer (I'd like to thank Poison Mist, stationary overworld bosses, Rock Sling, the High Ground, and The Bird for their contributions). I somehow first tried a lot of minor dungeon bosses with only a +2 Engwall, because the damn flowers are either in Boring Catacomb #43 or gatekept by Radahn. He doesn't care how overleveled I am XD And I progressed every NPC questline I could for now. So it's either beat Mr. Horse Boy with my magic or beat his mom with melee (I haven't tried her yet but I cleared the path already).
This list is EXTREMELY subjective. You present a set of criteria and then you dont follow them yourself. Based on, game design, the levels allowing you to go mutliple directions, progressing you somewhat naturally and based on the story the game wants you to experience, the list should be as follows: 7. Demon souls - because having access to the end of the game immediatelly is the worst rhing you can do. think about the new player who accidentally sumbles into the end game boss and is confused why the game is hard. 6. ds2 - because fuck that game and everything about it. immersion breaking elevators, linear progression bUt ItS bEtTeR ThAn Ds3 because it lets you go multiple directions??? no. the levels suck, the game sucks and it deserves last but at least you cant beat the game on your first level ACCIDENTALLY. 5. ds3 - even tho i enjoy this game, sure, lets pretend that the linear design is a problem and boring. whatever. 4.sekiro - this game is linear as fuck...i have yet to see a shortcut that leads me back to any starting area...it doesnt branch in any way possible. the grappling hook has the same function as just porting 10m ahead, it doesnt give you any feeling of freedom. the hook is linear...you literally NEED TO have a branch to grapple to or its useless. 3. bloodborne - this game branches propperly. the world has multiple directions but not all unlocked immediatelly because the game doesnt want you ti get into deep waters too soon. its propperly paced. the fact that you get into yosefkas clinic from the forbidden woods is on par with ds1 map design. plus, just google the two maps and you see the same exact thing. bloodborne is the perfect sequel to the ds1 map design and maybe even better. 2.ds1 - because obviously. 1. elden ring - honestly, it cant be compared with the previous games because its open world. but it wins because even though its open world that world is designed perfectly for new players to get exactly the exp they need to progress. FS even played with the position of the erdtree to guide the player naturally to the gatefront ruins where they get their map, horse and whetstone. then they turn the player away from the castle with a huge troll scaring them in stormgate and so the player just naturally runs the rest of limgrave to get their levels and weapons and various build options. even the hills block you from progressing to upper limgrave and instead guide you down south. connecting to caelid is a good option for experienced players to level early but it scares the newbies enough that they avoid it at first.
I really enjoyed this video, looking forward to seeing what else you've done. Hadn't seen this channel at all before today. I am one of those that didn't really get into Elden Ring . I did finish it, but it was a struggle, and nothing to do with the combat difficulty. Before I got to number one on this list, I actually forgot Elden Ring existed for a few minutes and was genuinely racking my brains trying to remember what I'd forgotten. Subscribed :)
Ds2 had a great “evolving” world design. Areas kept changing when you come back to them. I always take the wrong route the first time I play a DS game, so I enjoyed this a lot. (DS 1 I got all the way through ceaseless before I realized how to fight capra) (DS2 I got to the dlcs before finding dragon rider) (Ds3 is pretty linear but I did fight the old demon king really early too) I tend to get lost which sends me to the late-game really early. I then have to back-track and one shot everything beforehand.
10:05 if u wanna get super technical, there is a note saying that the sacred adage of byegenwerth is how you open the door to the forbidden woods. And the note right before amelia tells u that by touching the skull u learn said adage.
Ah yes... I also went to the end of Catacombs and Tomb of Giants before obtaining the Lord Vessel Ngl fighting my way back through the nightmarish darkness was one of the moat satisfying endings to a mini arch in my playthrough... Damn it was tough...
@@paulvanderkolf7986 I’ll genuinely never forget it. It did suck in the moment, but it’s also one of the most memorable things in all my time playing these games.
I lover how open world and non linear elden ring is. I love running around the open world not fighting anything searching for a random npc to progress the main storyline.
Well, watching this video after finishing Shadow of The Erdtree was nice, because SOTE's level design is even better than the base game to the point I don't even know if I want to come back to the main game
ppl should look up the map that showcases all the ways elden rings areas connect to each other, kinda like that ds1 map graphic that does the same, i think it was in nakeyjakyes video about fromsoft games. i think elden rings level design far surpasses ds1 on a talent and difficulty-to-make level, its the true next step of fromsoft level design evolution, never have i ever seen such a handcrafted open world before, its one thing to prefer the older games level design, but other than preference, its kinda delusional to say otherwise since the level design in ER is designed factoring in the character AND horse double jumping in dungeons and open world. hell not a single area in any of the older games comes close to the insane intricacy of the legacy dungeons in ER.
DS1 doesnt focus on the curse as much more on the prohecy of the chosen undead reestablishing the age of fire. The focus of the second is the curse itself and how bad it has gotten for the player character. The opening cutscene focuses on how the pc has forgotten several aspects of his previous life.
The 'Elden Ring being too big on replay issue' I blame entirely on Liurnia. Look at the map! Liurnia is bigger than all of Limgrave and Caelid COMBINED.
Bloodborne is awesome but Dark Souls 1 has to take the cake. Once you finally get to Anor Londo its so beautiful.. I'm on my 1st play through, stuck on O and S rn and love it XD
You've probably already beaten it, but I'm sorry you had to expeirence the absoulute dogshit level design of demon ruins, lost izalith, and tomb of giants. I'm so, so, so, so, so sorry
@@iplaygames.3899 I'm not picky I enjoyed the whole game, I love the level design the worst DS level is still better then the best "souls like" level...
People gripe about the world not being connected past DS1, but I never understood that argument. I mean I understood that it's cool that it's connected, but at the end of the day, you're not going to go from one end of the world to the other side. You get teleported a couple of times, and eventually, you can travel between bonfires, which at that point is just the same as the rest of the games.
It’s the open-ended feel of 1 and design that makes 1 stand out. It’s very much a Metroidvania that allows you to do different things in different orders yet still feels cohesive. Moments like finding how Undead Parish linked to Firelink Shrine, the shortcuts across the map. It made exploration and the world feel lived in, and kept the player further immersed rather than constant fast travel
They want to glorify it so badly because it's totally a perfect timelesss masterpiece. Don't bother with DS1 fans trying to cope with the fact the game wasn't very good past like the first third.
@@charlestonobryant807 they are not shortcurt everywhere and many time you need to re run in area than you already know coupled with the fact than you are much slower than in ds2,ds3 the fat roll in ds2 is the mid roll of ds1 (i just made a test ) and the fat roll of ds3 is faster and the fact tthan you need to re create a character everytime than you want to try a new build (in a game without fast travel) made the game a little boring also the lack of estus shard , bone dust , armor weapon, branch ,pharos stone , made the exploration in ds1 less valuable and rewarding
I just wish there was a way to at least get to altus plateou from the begining like how you can beat the game in a couple of hours on botw, it would be so good to replay some of those areas without having to cross aaaaalllll the same grass fields again
I don't personally agree with Elden Ring being #1. Mainly cause it felt like unneeded and uninteresting bloat. I'm not really someone who gets immersed in games that way so that's probably apart of the reason. ER always felt like is the most checklisty Souls game with a lot of garbage that you probably won't even really use. I won't disagree with you saying that ER has great looking areas but DS2 still is on top for visuals of world for me. It's everyone's different experiences sure but for me, I didn't even make it out of Limgrave before I got bored of the dungeons so it felt less "mysterious" for me and more I knew exact how the dungeon layout would be and I knew exactly of a spell or ashes I won't use. Overall I do agree pretty much with all your list but ER and maybe I would've been a little nicer to Demons Souls but maybe I'm just biased.
For me it’s easily Elden Ring! It has the most amounts of variety, different color palettes, best looking vistas & by far the best legacy dungeon designs, probably the best open-world in gaming, Bloodborne has outstanding places like Yharnam, Old Yharnam, Cathedral Ward which are as good as anything from ER, but the rest is considerably worse in comparison & not as memorable, it’s 2nd best after ER.
@@laurencevicar5798 Yes it is, at least it’s how I feel, I’ve played a LOT of open-world games, Zelda, GTA, RDR, Ubisoft garbage you name it, I should say one of the best, not THE best.
I love linear worlds with a limited scope. The ability to go everywhere and anywhere in a humongous world is overwhelming! I loved, for example, Halo Infinite, but did not love the idea of the open world where everything is... empty....same as Elden Ring, although the latter has some more enemies.
I actually really like the lack of realism in ds2’s world design. It makes sense from a story perspective-the cycle of fire and dark has been drawn out for so long that the world itself has begun to collapse. It’s kind of similar to the visual design of the dreg heap or the kiln in ds3, but on a much larger scale. Some people try to explain it away by saying that it’s either magic or laziness, but I don’t like either of those explanations. The elevator rides in earthen peak and aldia’s keep are so jarring that I feel there’s no way those transitions could have been unintentional. They were clearly going for something different from ds1, it just wasn’t something that people vibed with as well as the interconnectivity of that game’s world.
I dont like elden dungeons but the legacy dungeons are fantastic. I think soul games are better when they're interconnected like DS1 and Bloodborne. Elden Ring is too long and copy and paste for me.
@@chadofastora mytha’s boss room isn’t at the top of the windmill, you travel further back, into the mountain, up the elevator and to the lava castle on the other side. I saw some nerdy explanations of it and it makes like 70% sense. The skybox is still totally different but hey
I love the linear design of soulsborne games, it gives that souls feeling, tough, open world design gives more freedom of exploration, it places the different areas into an actual world, it feels more natural, it makes the world feel somewhat more alive, I feel as it has way more potential than what we saw in elden ring, mixing the two design could be done even better.
Am at the endgame of ER now and man is it just as good as ds1 So far though, Dark Souls 1 and Elden Ring may have some flaws (izalith for ds1 and samey dungeon visuals for er), but the worlds constructed are so peak and those two are the ones im enjoying the most because of their engaging exploration. Ds2's areas didnt grab me as much because of the too bright areas for a Dark Souls game, however, it is a very experimental game with unique and varied areas (like that one pirate ship area, dragons aerie). Still amazing just not as interconnected. Ds3 is very linear yes, and some areas are kinda samey in palette but the individual lvl design is really good. Sekiro is surprisingly good, even more so than dark souls 3 which is funny because ive heard many times that sekiro is linear and was shocked at how somewhat more open it is than Ds3 I havent played bloodborne demons souls console exclusives 😔 My ranking would be: Ds2=Ds3
I understand why people love the first half of DS1, but the second half is why I've put the least amount of hours into the game. DS3, BB, and Sekiro have the top world designs imo
I think bloodborne deserves to be MUCH lower. The worst part of it is definitely the beginning in cathedral ward where if you follow the intended path (Old Yharnam and BSB) the door in cathedral ward just opens for no reason and without any hint or clue to suggest that it has. Another thing is the vicar amelia password (fear the old blood) it's not THAT bad and it didn't personally give me much trouble since I just kind of figured it out, but it isn't the best transition. Also with the lake in Byrgenworth it is extremely counterintuitive to jump off the bridge. The only reason i knew to do so was because of messages and watching gameplay. Also all of the DLC/optional areas have warps to get there, (except for upper cathedral ward) instead of a cool path or something to lead you there. It's always just "get a specific item and go to this specific place to warp to a specific place." There's little interconnectivity. Also, many shortcuts in this game are pretty useless, the worst offender being the door in Y'har Goul (Darkbeast Paarl's boss area) that leads back to Old Yharnam. Overall, it's not terrible world design but I'd argue it's much worse than DS3, DeS, and maybe even DS2. (And every other souls game as well.) Really good levels, but pretty bad (as far as souls games go) world design, even if it is far better than most other games, but that's just the quality we expect from Souls.
You lost me at the beginning. You can't make a video about the "best world design" and then discount the world design and only factor in "how many diverging paths it has". That literally makes no sense.
Kinda feel like u didn't do your research on 2. There's nothing wrong with warf connecting to Lost Bastille, they're fairly close, it'd be like an hour voyage or less, and as for majula in the distance...well...yes, that's literally where it is. Stand on the death shrine jn macula and you'll see both heides tower ans the lost bastille. You can also see the fortresses from the forest from majula, as well as the very top of drangleic castle
So this list isn't about world design its about interconnectivity. And ends up being just being "does it have a hub and do those hub pathways meetup at any point?" While DS3 is fairly linear like a tree that has some branches, DS2 and Demon Souls are really just hubs. DS2 branches off at DLCs and its end game, though. So they are more like the complete opposite like a bush and honestly is not connected at all because of it. Probably more like building blocks. You can put them in any order but its still very much a straight line. I would say anything but Demon Souls and DS2 has good actual world design. Everything fits, aside from far off areas you teleport to, you can see it off in the distance and have it make sense. DS3 while linear is actually interconnected, but fragmented, in that you can't walk there but you can see other areas that are cutoff by say a broken bridge or something, and its close enough that you could land a hit in the terrain with range. Also, to be honest from the criteria given, DS1, is most deserving of first. It has a hub, the levels connect down the line, it makes sense. Simply because it is open world doesn't put ER 1st from the criteria given. While you may be able to skip some bosses or areas it is fairly linear in that you have to traverse the areas in that order with it branching off into a semi-optional area at like 3 points and none of them connect other than previous area or next area, linear.
DS1 for me is the indisputable #1.... I much prefer the focused experience it is with a beautifully interconnected world than ER's open world. As good as it is, ER's open world cannot escape the fact that a lot of the world is redundant. I seriously love ER, but DS1 is the GOAT.
That first elevator ride down to Siofra River really made me feel the "Wow" factor of Elden Ring
Yeah. Tho for me an even bigger was going through the cave in Liurnia and ending up in Altus
same
There is nothing like playing DS1 for the first time, and you feel like you been exploring for hours, find an elevator, and suddenly realise you are back at firelink. Mind was blown. Also got to say that I agree with ER on top. The visuals are just stunning. Fast travel from the getgo was a must when the scales get this large. Also had the same reaction when I got into an elevator in Liurnia and ended up in the underworld. Thought the game was incredibly large as it was, then realise there are just so much more.
Yep. This. As soon as I got that elevator from the church back to fire link, I knew it would be one of my fav games of all time. I also agree ER still deserves top spot.
I love how this is probably the one most memorable moment share by everyone in the community, going in completely blind in DkS1 as a Soul newbie is just an experience that could not be replicate.
Not only that.
Many games let you "rebuild" the once destroyed central hub.
Ds1 let's you feel the impirtance of your actions as you recover part of the workd and revive firelink shrine as its heart.
It's not just "i saved that guy and now he chills there".
It's more "I restored the ancient link between the heart of the world and his branches and see the workd vhange accordingly".
A testament to what you can narrate through games
@@apophisstr6719 but for some reason everyone seems to forget that this never happens again after the two bells and the design goes to shit after ornstein and smough, cool elevator though
it also helps just how dense elden ring's map is. Almost anywhere you go, you'll find *something* to do, and there are so many small areas off the beaten path that you could go a whole playthrough without ever finding
I hate when people think linear = Bad. DS3 level design is fucking amazing.
True! Ds3 although my friend does believe its Linear, It makes a lot of sense and it very fun!
All subjective
Amazing..and dull to replay. Ds1 is still much more fun to replay than all other souls games
The video is about world design... which he explains what it is according to his view...
So I guess he thinks DS3 has amazing level design, but the world is too linear, making it feel less like a world. I think thats it...
no, its not.
You can see the cathedral of the deep, Faron keep, irythill, and even arch dragon peak on a mountain from the bonfire after Vordts fight. Feels like a tie in to DS1s design being able to see so many areas from fire link and undead parish
They're however all in incorrect locations in those LOD's. Something only DS1 did correctly with almost exact placement.
@@MLWJ1993 this is false. While DS3 does have some iffy placements, most are relatively good. DS1 also has some iffy placements. In the end it doesn't matter, they just want it to look good, no normal person looks at far away locations in the distance and goes "Hmm i wonder if those are in the exact right place, let me get a noclip and find out."
@@thedudeofnothing7378 Someone actually overlaid the LOD's with the actual map for DS3. Most important locations were not at all where they should be in other maps. Something that wasn't the case in DS1 to such a significant degree.
So no, it's true. Placement is far more incorrect in DS3 than in DS1. However there's enough fanboys going around for DS3 that would scream false at any and all valid critique on their beloved game.
@markjacobs1086 it's almost as if it isn't meant to be overlaid because it is meant to be rendered separately to create the FEELING that it is connected through visuals rather than trying to get a dev cam and point fingers.
I see way more DS3 haters like yourself bringing up irrelevant information trying to discredit the games strengths like this than so-called "fanboys"
@@matmil5 Weak argument on your end... LOD's are meant for saving performance. If you'd want an area to be seen a certain way from a certain area in the map, why not create it that way.
I also don't "hate" DS3, that's putting words in my mouth that I never uttered.
It's just the weakest game of the 3 in my opinion, it's perfectly valid for you to like it more than I do. That doesn't mean it's completely immune to critique from others.
The best instance of interconnectivity in fromsoft games was in DS2 when you take an elevator up from a windmill to a lava sunken castle. Top notch. Wonder why it wasn’t higher in the list.
truly one of the moments of all time
The developers also said it was a mistake that it ended up that way.
@@DestoRestThe OP was being facetious. We all know that going up into the sky only to end up surrounded by lava makes no sense.
@@RevyaAeinsett oh ok. Went over my head then lol
So much ds2 hate
Agree that Ashina is the most underrated Fromsoft world. You forgot to add that depending on the order you do the later game areas it will change which type of shadow enemies get added to certain spots (like if you do the depths early then Mibu villagers will spawn, if you do it late there will be Tengu warriors in the mist area, etc).
Sekiro is such a tightly designed game. you never feel bored playing it. EVER. you can do as much as you want and skip almost every enemy if you feel like it. its up to you. the linear games allow for way more replay value. a big open world game is daunting because youve gotta do everything you like and sometimes a lot you dont like too.
It feels wrong that linearity is a category in world design. Just because I can go to the last boss the moment I step out of the tutorial doesn’t make the world well designed. That’s great for gameplay and player agency, but I fail to see the connection.
We read stories and lore that follow a path that is not of our choosing that have some of the best worlds we’ve seen and can imagine through various forms of media. Many examples im sure can be drawn up in a moment.
You make the exact point when comparing DS2 to DS3. If immersion breaks, how is the world design better?
I’ve personally only heard people argue this topic when it comes to soulsborne games
If linearity is done well then why is it considered worse or less than interconnected/open worlds
I love the linearity of DS3 because it feels like a set journey and I’m on a mission, I’ve got a goal to go to with the occasional backtrack
And I love DS1s open world design because I could go to certain areas whenever I wanted and go on an adventure that’s just mostly backtracking
@@eeyorebenji2836 I'm confused how DS1 is considered "open" or "interconnected". Most loop arounds are nothing more than quick ways to the beginning of a different region. You can't really go in any direction you want since the objective off the bad is to get to Anor Londo; which prior to going their, you are stopped at every location by a huge wall telling you that you cannot progress, so until you unlock fast traveling, you are stuck back tracking.
Despite people claiming the game is great, it actually is largely flawed due to its poorly designed world falsely advertising freedom.
@@frstudio3640The First half of the map Is completely interconnected in DS1. From the start I can go to the undead basement, to the undead church, to petit Londo, to the forest, to blightown, to the catacomb and to the lake of cinder. It's the best map from has ever done, the Freedom Is real.
@@bondrewd5935lake of cinder???
@@JoeTheRealOne Maybe lake of Ash? Ash lake? I Don't know I'm traducing from my language😅
To me a perfect mix would be a smaller open world with more, but WAY deeper legacy dungeons stacked on each other. So like gigantic Majula with many different sub sections of different scalings with their own paths
Nope, DsR world design is perfect
*pushes lost izalith out of the frame*
Yeah...Yep, Completely perfect, Nothing needs changes.
@@jaxthejaximus6296what??
@@jaxthejaximus6296put it in the tomb of giants
So basically you want the hardest type of world to design possible 😂
@@Tokyoprism I mean it wouldn't have to be very hard. Look at Mortal Shell as an example of what I mean at a much smaller scale
I'm probably insane for even knowing this, but something that deeply fascinates me about Elden Ring's map is that the geography seems to have been determined by the way they chose to position characters and key locations. This was seemingly done to reinforce the lore itself. This is partly why I think the map has a sort of circular shape, as opposed to something more sprawling, traditional of open worlds.
For example: Rennala, the Church of Vows, the Erdtree (and thus Radagon/Marika), the Forge of the Giants, and the moon itself are perfectly aligned. This makes sense, owing to the lore of Radagon's marriage to Rennala, which joined the houses of the Erdtree and the Full Moon, while fettering the stars to the Golden Order.
This is just one of many such examples. As it turns out, many of the stone astrolabes scattering the overworld appear to point toward and away from key characters or locations, such as the large one next to the Church of the Plague where Millicent is found, which directly faces the chest containing the Valkyrie's Prosthesis found all the way in the Shaded Castle, far beyond the player's sight.
So far, I've found at least a couple dozen examples of such alignments, but I've never seen anyone else make mention of it, so I dunno, maybe I really am just crazy, lol. It's mighty suspicious, though.
I keep on getting amazed at how expansive the lore of Elden Ring is. Just earlier today I found out that the left foot of Godrick actually is Niall/O'Neil's foot, and why that is/could be. (Lots of the implicated lore stuff is fan speculation, but has so much concrete evidence in the game)
@@Merczid Oooh, I never heard this theory before, but already the wheels are turning in my head and seeing why that would actually make sense! After all, Godrick did challenge Malenia's army, and he also employs Exiles/Banished Knights as his personal footsoldiers... This is the kind of stuff that keeps me coming back to the game, lol.
One thing that is severely disregarded on ER, because you know "if It has to find the story It means It has no story".
One of the coolest examples is this.
The nameless Eternal City is one of the most interest places on ER. It has no backstory, It is formed on ruins and Resident are almost nonexistent compared to Nokron.
So, whats their origin, Who made these ruins and why on a place as this? The answer is very simple, we just have to toggle the *map* .
Nameless City is located under a Big hole close to the Erdtree. Which is also close to Godwin corpse, which has Fame of eroding the floor and corrupting everything It touches. Well, whats happen when we open the map? Leyndell? And everything makes sense now. The nameless City is not more than a part of Leyndell, destroyed by Deathroot influence, is technically the most Modern of all Cities. And all of this without any information.
Elden Ring relies a lot of his world design in order to tell a great part of the Lore, using It open world at his advantage. Like ER or not, this is pretty Damn awesome.
This is some serious feat (some plebs would say case) of lorecheology !
Kudos, man!
"Yeah let's go to the Tomb of the Giants or Blight Town again" said no-one ever.
I'm one of "those" individuals who enjoyed blight town. 😊
@@jacobsnellgrove3918 what about that horrible place do you find appealing?
yep and its funny how people compare blight town to farron keep
farron keep is actually enjoyable and short compared to shittown
I love Ds1 but Ds1 fanboys are delusional and tend to overpraise the heck out of the game. The second half is atrocious and even so they tend to downplay its negative aspects and highlight the good ones. Up until Anor Londo the game is phenomenal, but the endgame really affects que overall quality
@@liszt646 Tomb of the Giants is awful, Duke's Archives is fun, Four Kings is a good boss, Gywnn is easy but I was good at parrying.
I enjoy linearity quite a bit honestly, I don’t think it should be thing that makes one game better than the other
I absolutely loved Dark Souls 1 yet I felt like Anor Londo was really small for what we got to explore.
I understand that it was limitations of the time but if it ever got a remake I would be head over heels for a much more massive Anor Londo to explore maybe even new lore and bosses to flesh the world out even more.
Anor londo but with the leyndell royal capital treatment
DS3 basically did it by adding Irithyll before Anor Londo.
Leyndell is also an Anor Londo 2.0
Even irrithyl felt small for what it looked like
Naw make it smaller to trigger the masses cut content and make it 80$ just for upscaling it to 4k at 35fps
I think we're stretching the word "remake" there
No lie at the start of my very 1st playthrough of Ds3 I was lost for an hour or two trying to figure out where to go after Firelink Shrine until I eventually looked it up, granted I had only really played Ds1 before so I don't know if I was even aware I could warp between bonfires yet much less to a whole new area
I was lost for like 5 minutes before i gave up and looked it up. I wont deny, it was super disorientating having to tp to the first proper area right off the get-go instead of naturally walking into it like DS1 and DS2. Sorta weird but it was a great joruney regardles!
1-2 hours?? I would have googled earlier. Great patience tho
I did the exact same thing lol thankfully my brother came in and called me an idiot and showed me what to do 😂
same😂😂😂
I 1000% believe that Shadow Of The Erdtree is going to be the peak of open world gaming experiences we have ever seen.
From has had the time, the resources and the feedback to cook properly and I have a feeling they are going to deliver on and exceed all expectations.
I hope
see i love elden ring but to me i dont think they really innovated on open world design. they just took the a lot of the standard formulas that worked for open world games, did away with stupid side activities and instead put the things we love in those places (Bosses, Armor, Weapons, Lore, and Story) B.A.W.L.S. lmao.
and then they put it in a standard open world but what they chose to populate it with was so compelling that we call it the peak of open world when really this game could succeed outside of the open world format. The open world isn't what truly makes it great. It's the big ass BAWLS. you feel me?! There just arent towers to open the map or other ubi-shit tendencies but since the dark souls formula is so good and there is such a high demand for it, it succeeds. They also have zero microtransactions. They're smart enough to adapt their style to open world and not just haphazardly do it, people call it the peak of open world design but their are a lot of areas that are horrendous like the tombs and other bog standard dungeon types or re-used bosses. Honestly i think they just barely squeaked by. you can see that the game got really unwieldy and Miyazaki even speaks on this in interviews.
it's still a legendary game but i think the specific praises i hear heaped on it all the time are just inaccurate. It deserves heaps of praise for its combat, its minute to minute gameplay, little things like eliminating "the walk back" or flasks being re-charged after a large encounter etc. a lot of small things that add up. Some of the things it doesnt do well is that the main instigators of the story have zero screentime in any cutscene or lore. I think in this game thats a mistake.
i think it'd be safer to say that Elden Ring adapted very well to the open world template but it also lost a lot in the process of becoming open world. It would succeed in either format because the content itself is fun and engaging with the game and not doing content is also fun. lots of other open worlds fail at this. if youre not doing content, it becomes banal. They had such a strong base for this game that open world might've even hampered it in some ways. I hope they hire more developers to this company so that the next game doesn't cause them problems.
and even with this criticism, i'd still call it a legendary game. every legendary game has faults but it's hard to talk about them because people love the game so much.
ER is far from peak open would design, there’s hardly any reason to fight enemies in the open world unless you grinding for gear. ER is definitely the best looking game in the series ohh and don’t even get me started on reused assets
@@kinguchiha6212 you got it man and I ADORE THAT GAME. but I feel like the praise isn't misplaced it's just inaccurate praise.
I see people comment this stuff all the time and I'm not digging at their opinion, that's totally their experience and subjective, but I think that it sets people up for disappointment. No matter the game there's always people I see who got let down because of their expectations being too high, too specific or unrealistic.
A big thing for me is verticality. Ds2 does this really well with the gutter, as you really feel like you’re at the bottom of the world in a place you feel like you’re not supposed to be. Blight town is another good example of this
Isn't DS1 more vertical?
Absolutely loved blighttown
agreed @@splishsplash3492
@@toprak3479Yeah by far Dark Souls is the most vertically built. Dark Souls 2 is the most horizontally built I'd say.
@@nicola4251 From most vertical to least it's prolly DS1 - ER - BB (if you count nightmares that are stacked on each other) - DS3 - BB (if you only count Yharnam) - DS2 - DeS
No clue about Sekiro because I've not finished it yet.
90% of Elden Ring is optional
I think Dark Souls 1 map is a piece of art, just like DS 3. I'd say I prefer connected maps, but elden ring was a breath of fresh air in the monotonous market of open world that became parodies of themselves with their sprawling-but-empty proceduraly-generated maps. The moniker of "walking-simulator" is rightly deserved for most modern open world games.
Elden Ring tackles it perfectly by having a handcrafted map with non-random loot and treasures. A feature Morrowind had twenty years ago... and TES games since Oblivion Shed sadly.
Elden Ring has it all. Demon’s Souls is the prettiest (aside from ER), Dark Souls has the best map layout, Bloodborne has the best atmosphere, & Sekiro is a close second.
i loved playing lies of P and seeing how much they took from the interconnectivity from ds1. The elevator back up to the hotel from the zombie levels is absolutely insane. and being able to see the past levels on the bridge of atonement was crazy. such nice level design.
Damn I didn’t know that. Gonna have to check out that game.
Yep. They really took all the elements that made the original Dark Souls great.
Yeah, no. In LoP they just did those intralevel shortcut loops. Somewhere in a level you find some shortcut back to the bonfire. Some levels do this quite well in LoP. That is all inside a single level, but that isn't really what made DS1 so unique. BB also does this as an example.
The actual world progression and story of LoP is almost completely straight line. You have to visit every level in the game in the exact same order. In some sense this path crosses itself, but those crossings have no mechanical importance. The only thing you can change is whether you fight some of the bosses on this path like the Black Cat or Nameless Puppet.
That is completely different in DS1. Once you beat the tutorial the world opens up so much. It has so many optional and even hidden areas. You can do things in so many different orders and through different routes and the world fits together unbelievably well.
Then all progression paths converge again at Sens fortress and into Anor Londo (with a possible detour still). At that point you must reach 4 areas at the edge of the "progression map" that don't have any meaningful interconnectivity anymore, but it still forces you to reach the edges. And then everything converges back again for the final area and boss.
@user-ky8nd2rz4f
I liked LoP a lot. The bosses are definitely very good and I also liked many of the small new mechanics they added.
However I always have a hard time ranking any of the newer games against DS1. DS1 just has the best world design of any soulslike that makes a first playthrough and even subsequent playthroughs so unique. At the same time the new games just have more engaging combat and better bosses.
They offer different experiences. For raw combat LoP is definitely better, but I wouldn't say LoP is better than DS1.
lmao i like how you answered thoughtfully but they were probably trying to get a rise out of you@@RandomPerson-yq1qk
The thing that makes me prefer Elden rings level/world design over ds1 is the fact that not only does it have a drop dead georgeous open world..but it also has legacy dungeons that are akin to some of dark souls level design with some of them having their multiple shortcuts but also open endedness to get to your destination in multiple ways from the get go WITHOUT having to first unlock said alternative paths. That and the fact that DS1s second half has some areas with awful level design.
I haven’t watched the video yet, not have I watched any of your content ever, and I’ll tell you I’m excited for this vid, but oh my god is the name “Chad of Astora” such a metal name that I just subbed immediately.
For me it will always be Dark Souls. Nothing will ever beat the feeling of taking that elevator in the Undead Parish and realizing you’re back at Firelink Shrine. Or going up through Blighttown and getting back to New Londo
One thing I’ll say about Elden Ring I’m that I can’t about others is the amount of secret stuff I found upon subsequent playthroughs. I am a thorough explorer due to having a completionist mindset, but even so there were little areas of the lands between that I just missed, like Jarburg. It’s cool when you think you’ve seen it all and get kinda sad, but then suddenly there’s a new place to discover all over again
Great video, when you think about the amount of missable content From hides in their games, it really makes you realise how balsy they are.
Can’t beat og dark souls 1
this. 3’s world was bunk
The second half of dark souls is so good
@@HighPriestOfChaos25thank you for being smart
@@mrt.1903 I know right, I’m just admiring the beauty of this game, and it’s sad that nobody acknowledges amazing bosses like Bed of Chaos
non linear isnt always better than linear, its simply a different style of game, all of from's levels are linear but in a way in which the player doesnt realise it because if they werent linear and the intended path was one among many these levels would be bad, people think non linear is better because linear games have gotten a bad rep due to recent releases and elden ring blew up non linearity
I do love a lot of linear games, it’s just that fromsoft likes to dabble in giving you multiple choices with their worlds which I find fun and adds to the experience
I agree one isnt inherently better but non linear in soulsborne ring shadows die twice is definitely a better experience and lends itself very well to multiple playthroughs having freedom to go in whatever order you want. The only real benefit linearity has in souls is a more curated difficulty curve, which is a strong benefit ill admit
@@DourFlower ill have to acknowledge how elden souls shadows prepare to die game of the hour edition does that trick
i kind of want to completely agree but i think pulling off GREAT world design with too strict or not strict enough linear progression can't hurt the purpose of the world design, which is to invest you in it. you'll always be invested in the world that actually feels like a world and isn't just a corridor that's has to keep up a facade of having more under the veil, that's why those moments where you go to those artificial walls saying something like "oh go get the 5 boss things so you can continue" breaks so much immersion and totally gives you the "oh well this is definetely a game"
but it's not impossible to have very immersive not too strict nor too open linear design, take about every horror game as an example, like Amnesia the Bunker, that game has a lot of those walls but they never feel like a game designer put those there because you can choose which wall to tackle first, you could go for an amplitude of choices to tackle on your own accord, and that really helps the immersion of a game imo
it's more of a balance really, too linear and you have a mario game, that is clearly a game, too open and you will eventually have to put those walls that clearly sell that is also just a game (unless you're Breath of the Wild and totally flip that on itself), so a balance of those two aspects is better of a choice really
LMAO im so glad youre on board with the ridiculous frankensteins title@@RealVergilSparda
Ds1 most interconnected
Ds2 most interesting ideas and a cool branching world
Ds3 a journey from graves to ash a journey through and through
Sekiro much like ds2 branching paths but ending with a constant changes to prior areas feeling like a changing world
Elden ring- massive open world with so much to find and see
Bloodborne & demon souls- too poor to play but ik bloodborne has a cool medical basis for a lot of areas while demon souls is more structured in design.
I know what u mean with the last paragraph. I dont have a playstation either lol
@@panditas7679lmao! So true
@@panditas7679Bloodborne is awesome I am put 1000h in that game 😅
Demon's souls remake I don't like 😞
I’d say shadow of the erdtree probably had the best design in terms of levels and areas so far, perfect combo of the interconnected levels that double back on themselves, huge sprawling open world, and then the added huge amount of verticality
I definitely would put Bloodborne over Sekiro at least. I loved seeing stuff like how the Forbidden Woods connect to Central Yharnam through that ladder, and Darkbeast Paarl connecting to old Yharnam was pretty neat. Of course, since you have “fast travel” (it’s really slow travel on Bloodborne because you have to go back to the hub then travel where you want to go), they’re not nearly as useful as they are in DS1, but I definitely think the world deserves some credit over Sekiro’s (which I agree is underrated).
Sekiro has some neat connection points, but the world itself feels much smaller than Bloodborne’s as it has fewer areas. Ashina Castle is reused multiple times as your main area to do quests in, as an example. The Nightmares in Bloodborne offer a cool spiritual realm, which Sekiro doesn’t really have outside maybe Fountainhead Palace to an extent.
Another area Bloodborne deserves an advantage over Sekiro and even Elden Ring in: shortcuts and fewer checkpoints. Bloodborne follows that strict, early Fromsoft design of placing 1-2 checkpoints per level, but adding shortcuts to ensure the player never dies too far from the checkpoint (except Cainhurst lol). This forces Fromsoft to create more cohesive and interconnected designs in each level, as they no longer have the ability to just slap a checkpoint every 20 feet. Levels like fishing hamlet, central Yharnam, Old Yharnam, Mergo’s Loft/Nightmare of Mensis, and Research Hall are all great examples of how shortcuts force better level design out of the developers.
I also think your point about Bloodborne’s areas feeling kinda “same-y” applies more to Sekiro than Bloodborne itself. Sekiro’s world is definitely the least creative overall as it sticks hard to the realistic, medieval Japan theme. Every area resembles Ashina Castle to an extent, except fountainhead which is supposed to be a heaven of sorts. Is this necessarily a bad thing? No, it sticks to the game’s theme and the visuals are still beautiful. But Bloodborne definitely has more variety thanks to the nightmares, the 3 DLC areas which are all distinct from each other, different times of day, and a more outlandish setting.
Sekiro is awesome and I definitely think its world and level design are underrated. I would place it 4th on the list, but I think Bloodborne belongs in that top 3 with DS1 and Elden Ring. In fact, I feel like Bloodborne is the only other game that could’ve pulled off what DS1 did in having no fast travel for the first half.
I like how in Elden Ring, each area is its own kingdom. From Raya Lucaria to Volcano Manor to Leyndell, it feels like you are a conqueror that is steamrolling various kingdoms.
Good list! I definitely would have had ds1 at the top but I respect your placements. I find that online opinions on souls games have become very boss centric in recent years. It’s nice to see people discussing level design a bit more, I think it’s just as important.
Personally I think I would have put ds1 on top, but it's really hard to draw any comparison between ER and ds1. ER is the pinnacle of open world, horizontal world design in all of game development, but I think Dark Souls approaches that pinnacle for vertical world design, which is an underused design philosophy.
Plus I am so glad you harped on how absolutely incredible the no fast travel aspect of dark souls is. I think departing from that aspect, and thus, falling into the pitfalls that having fast travel allows is one of the biggest mistakes that the franchise has committed.
No zone in souls games since has managed to capture the crippling dread and disgust of being completely trapped in blighttown. Which only serves to make the ascent to Anor Londo all the more incredible and empowering. Heck, I think even firelink shrine is the only zone in the franchise that truly accomplishes the goal of making it feel like a safe place, a home. And so much of that comes from the genuine feeling of relief that you feel when you finally emerge back into the zone after traveling on these great journeys.
Exactly This ^
Gotta disagree with ya here, but to each their own I suppose
I think BB and Sekiro are interchangeable but I’d go along with this list. I was curious wondering whether DS1 or ER was gonna be first. I agree with your choice though it’s a tough one for me.
I like DS1's world design overall, but always found it a letdown how the world design's non-linearity is undermied by its progression systems. Pretty much every playthrough starts with beeline to Andre because he's the earliest you can unlock upgrading at bonfires and sells titanite shards, which appear naturally in the world very rarely.
Another thing is that the Large Ember and all the early spell trainers are found in the Lower Undead Burg and early Depths. (The earliest trigger for Reah leaving Firelink Shrine is killing Capra Demon.) So you can't really skip Capa Demon.
I've found myself doing alot of Faith builds in DS1 because they're one of the few builds really encouraged to go off the beaten path, by killing Moonlight Butterfly ASAP for the Divine Ember, and going to Tomb of the Giants early to rescue Reah.
Killing Pinwheel and getting a fire weapon from the start is as fast as getting to Andre. The 3 golden pine resines also remove the need of Andre until Sen fortress is opened
@@dearcastiel4667 Going down to the catacombs early is a huge hassle unless you just run past all the skeletons, and even then getting out is an even bigger hassle because there's no shortcuts to get back up.
Locking yourself into the fire infusion is not good for a lot of builds (especially with how rare green titanite is before Sens), and three 60 second weapon buffs is not enough unless you're running past every enemy.
I'm sure the routing you described can get you through the game, but requires you to go through the game in a very specific way that doesn't really work well for a lot of builds. You're going to have to kill Bell Gargoyles sooner or later anyway, so you might as well go to by far the the most convenient blacksmith that also sells an infinite amount of the titanite you need for most of the games infusion s.
I completely agree. I've played DS1 enough times to be able to go different routes than the standard, BUT outside of getting some items for your build, there's really no benefit to doing so.
Therefore, every playthrough is straight through the burg/parish, down the depths to Quelaag, back to Sen's and finally Anor Lando.
@@carlschrappen9712 Agreed but green titanite becomes easily farmable before Sen's, from Blighttown slugs
@@toprak3479 I've farmed the slugs before, and it took forever. According to Fextrtralife, they have a 2.06% chance to drop 5 green titanite, and it takes 10-11 green titanite to fully upgrade a weapon. That's not what I would call easily farmable.
DS1 remains my favorite game of all time. Especially for layout. There are very close seconds from many Devs not just FROM however, hollow knight, many of the legend of Zelda games, rockstar games etc.
The more linear design of the three Dark Souls games compliments the Fromsoft philosophy of game design far better than Elden Ring's open world.
The open world doesn't allow a developer to create interesting encounter scenarios like in previous games, because the player isn't restricted to a more limited space and can instead just run past enemy hordes. In a more linear game, a developer can construct encounters that are interesting because they can predict when/where the player is going to be.
Additionally, because of how large Elden Ring's open world is, it seems to place items you find throughout the world in such a way that it feels more like they're just a checklist they're going through when placing such items. There isn't as much thought into placing items in areas where it makes sense why they'd be found there from a lore perspective. Hell, most items are just dropped off of the copy-and-paste bosses, and a lot of these items are not related to the bosses they drop from (like the Magma Wyrm dropping the Moonveil). Whereas in the Dark Souls games, items are found randomly in the world and you can visualize how they ended up where they are (like how you find armor/weapons on the corpses of people who tried to traverse those areas previously). And items are typically related to the enemy/boss you receive them from, instead of being chosen at random.
Additionally, the open world makes it far too easy to miss many of the NPC questlines, as the developer has no way of knowing if a player will realistically find an NPC in a vast, open space. It is so easy to miss NPCs like Irina or Latenna even on their first encounter, and even easier to progress to the point of locking you out of questlines if you don't micromanage the world. In the Dark Souls games however, NPCs are placed in such a way that you are guaranteed to at least see/meet them when traveling along the paths that are given to you, making it so you realistically can't miss your first encounter with an NPC.
Seriously?
You can't understand how could Moonveil be found in the hoard of Magma Wyrm in Caelid?
People CAN bypass enemy groups = worse design? When in fact it's just adding an option how to progress the game?
Yes, you can miss some quest lines easily in Elden Ring. Adds replay ability value. Also, when these quest lines introduce to you the whole new regions of the world (which you could also find by just exploring most of the time), I think, pros more than overweight cons.
I disagree. That's your problem, I think. I found it much easier to find NPCs in Elden Ring than any of the other Souls games.
Elden ring has open world perfectly imo due to legacy dungeons keeping that interconnected, complex level design. However the first half of DS1’ entire world being so interconnected is truly special. Both my favs.
World design is what kept me coming back in From Software's games! ✨ thanks for this amazing upload! 😊❤️
tbh, I was never a big open world fan, but man... if Elden Ring made me play 5 playthroughs through its map, that means it did something special!!!
If I had to compare the Dark Souls trilogy to another series, it'd be the DS Castlevanias, with DS1 and Dawn of Sorrow being the more properly interconnected Metroidvania maps, DS2 and Portrait of Ruin having you go into these branches with dead ends before heading back to find other branches, and DS3 and Order of Ecclesia being a more linear challenge going from one stage to the next with few branches but a very consistent difficulty curve.
If you ask what the point of this is, it's the fact that Order of Ecclesia and Dark Souls 3 are my favorites for their respective franchises, and the rather linear nature works for me in this instance. I never felt ahead or behind of the game, the challenge was always just right. And I'd say the individual level design in each area is overall FromSoft at their best, the single bonfire design in Cathedral of the Deep/Grand Archives sticks with me consistently. While I miss the bigger area connections, the work within each area is really good for the most part.
I feel like this video is described as “which souls game has the best level design” but in reality I feel it’s more “which souls game world has the best connectivity”. Either way pretty good video
For me
Dark Souls 1
Elden ring
Blood borne
Sekiro
Dark souls 2
Demon Souls
Dark souls 3
I love Dark Souls 1 but for as many great areas, there’s just as many shit areas
@@kingqunt8567 every souls game has a bad areas, even elden ring
@@7ndl there’s bad areas, then there’s Tomb of The Giants and Lost Izalith
i also went to the tomb of the giants early in my first playthrough, before even going to blighttown. It sure as hell made it hard when i got almost one shot by those giant skeletons. Getting out of there was so difficult because of no fast travel, but that difficulty of actually being stuck in some kind of underground dungeon where the enemies are so much stronger than you add to the immersion so much. Getting out of their was a challenge worthy of comparing to many difficult bosses and is really what makes the game so special. It wasnt just the standard gameplay loop of going through and area getting to the boss and killing it then going to next area, it was about just exploring this unkown world where you couldnt teleport and really just had to find everything for yourself. I played ds1 after ds3 and elden ring, but in my opinion the first half of dark souls 1 for these reasons is probably the greatest gaming experience of all time.
I hate how formulaic game design has gotten. Its like we think that just because everywhere can branch into two or more areas makes it better game design.
Hey, something else to note from the Nightmare Frontier, is that you can see the nightmare of mensis in the distance after exiting the cave where the first lamp is. It's hard to spot but it's so cool.
After watching Illusionary Wall's video on Dark Souls 1's world layout and all of the technical illusions they did and how accurate the world actually is, I simply cannot get over it. It's become probably my favorite Dark Souls game because of it. It's just so cozy because how much detail there is. The world outside of Lordran straight up collapsing, literal dimensional rifts opening like Ash Lake. I cannot stress how cool it is.
For me I love linear or open world a lot more than the interconnectivity
+1
Imagine liking DS3's world more than DS1's.
dark souls 1 for sure. interconnected but nonlinear design takes a lot of work and creativity, it's peak
Making clear judgements can be so tough sometimes with those “first souls game” goggles on. You can get past it I know it
If we’re judging off work and creativity, pretty WILD to believe ds1 took more than Elden Ring
My opinion connected all the way like playing dark souls 3 for the first time as I realize irithyll was the city right next to anor londo amazed me the connection of finding a starter zone right next to the end of the game the connections are just amazing
The less linear is not always better.
Elden Ring is massive, and for a lazy player like me that means I started last April and I haven't even entered the capital yet. There is just too much stuff to do (and I often don't play for several weeks). So now I'm at an awkward place of being lvl 120 without so much as killing my second shardbearer (I'd like to thank Poison Mist, stationary overworld bosses, Rock Sling, the High Ground, and The Bird for their contributions). I somehow first tried a lot of minor dungeon bosses with only a +2 Engwall, because the damn flowers are either in Boring Catacomb #43 or gatekept by Radahn. He doesn't care how overleveled I am XD And I progressed every NPC questline I could for now. So it's either beat Mr. Horse Boy with my magic or beat his mom with melee (I haven't tried her yet but I cleared the path already).
This list is EXTREMELY subjective. You present a set of criteria and then you dont follow them yourself.
Based on, game design, the levels allowing you to go mutliple directions, progressing you somewhat naturally and based on the story the game wants you to experience, the list should be as follows: 7. Demon souls - because having access to the end of the game immediatelly is the worst rhing you can do. think about the new player who accidentally sumbles into the end game boss and is confused why the game is hard.
6. ds2 - because fuck that game and everything about it. immersion breaking elevators, linear progression bUt ItS bEtTeR ThAn Ds3 because it lets you go multiple directions??? no. the levels suck, the game sucks and it deserves last but at least you cant beat the game on your first level ACCIDENTALLY.
5. ds3 - even tho i enjoy this game, sure, lets pretend that the linear design is a problem and boring. whatever.
4.sekiro - this game is linear as fuck...i have yet to see a shortcut that leads me back to any starting area...it doesnt branch in any way possible. the grappling hook has the same function as just porting 10m ahead, it doesnt give you any feeling of freedom. the hook is linear...you literally NEED TO have a branch to grapple to or its useless.
3. bloodborne - this game branches propperly. the world has multiple directions but not all unlocked immediatelly because the game doesnt want you ti get into deep waters too soon. its propperly paced.
the fact that you get into yosefkas clinic from the forbidden woods is on par with ds1 map design.
plus, just google the two maps and you see the same exact thing. bloodborne is the perfect sequel to the ds1 map design and maybe even better.
2.ds1 - because obviously.
1. elden ring - honestly, it cant be compared with the previous games because its open world. but it wins because even though its open world that world is designed perfectly for new players to get exactly the exp they need to progress.
FS even played with the position of the erdtree to guide the player naturally to the gatefront ruins where they get their map, horse and whetstone. then they turn the player away from the castle with a huge troll scaring them in stormgate and so the player just naturally runs the rest of limgrave to get their levels and weapons and various build options. even the hills block you from progressing to upper limgrave and instead guide you down south.
connecting to caelid is a good option for experienced players to level early but it scares the newbies enough that they avoid it at first.
Wait does letting the snake swallow you actually bring you to sunken valley cave in Sekiro!!?
Yes
I really enjoyed this video, looking forward to seeing what else you've done. Hadn't seen this channel at all before today. I am one of those that didn't really get into Elden Ring . I did finish it, but it was a struggle, and nothing to do with the combat difficulty. Before I got to number one on this list, I actually forgot Elden Ring existed for a few minutes and was genuinely racking my brains trying to remember what I'd forgotten. Subscribed :)
Ds2 had a great “evolving” world design. Areas kept changing when you come back to them. I always take the wrong route the first time I play a DS game, so I enjoyed this a lot.
(DS 1 I got all the way through ceaseless before I realized how to fight capra) (DS2 I got to the dlcs before finding dragon rider)
(Ds3 is pretty linear but I did fight the old demon king really early too) I tend to get lost which sends me to the late-game really early. I then have to back-track and one shot everything beforehand.
Finally,
I have waited for you to upload.
Let’s go
So based on your introduction summary, this isn't a list of the best world designs from fromsoftware, rather which games are the least linear
Elden ring and ds1’s map design and interconnectivity is so close they’re basically 1 and 1a.
I can definitely see that, elden ring is the promise of ds1 fully realized when it comes to scope and non linearity
@@DourFlower No, it's not. They would have to remove warping to achieve that.
@@charyan2878yes but then it would be impossible to get around
10:05 if u wanna get super technical, there is a note saying that the sacred adage of byegenwerth is how you open the door to the forbidden woods. And the note right before amelia tells u that by touching the skull u learn said adage.
@@Hispac Fair enough, still a little cryptic, but nice to know there actually is a reasonable way to find that out
Ah yes... I also went to the end of Catacombs and Tomb of Giants before obtaining the Lord Vessel
Ngl fighting my way back through the nightmarish darkness was one of the moat satisfying endings to a mini arch in my playthrough... Damn it was tough...
@@paulvanderkolf7986 I’ll genuinely never forget it. It did suck in the moment, but it’s also one of the most memorable things in all my time playing these games.
I lover how open world and non linear elden ring is. I love running around the open world not fighting anything searching for a random npc to progress the main storyline.
Personally it’s ds1 because it never feels too tedious, unlike in elden ring where it takes 30 minutes to get from a big tree to another big tree.
This 100%
Well, watching this video after finishing Shadow of The Erdtree was nice, because SOTE's level design is even better than the base game to the point I don't even know if I want to come back to the main game
cap
A teleporter instead of an elevator to iron keep would be a simple but effective change for a remake someday. I like all games though :)
ppl should look up the map that showcases all the ways elden rings areas connect to each other, kinda like that ds1 map graphic that does the same, i think it was in nakeyjakyes video about fromsoft games.
i think elden rings level design far surpasses ds1 on a talent and difficulty-to-make level, its the true next step of fromsoft level design evolution, never have i ever seen such a handcrafted open world before, its one thing to prefer the older games level design, but other than preference, its kinda delusional to say otherwise since the level design in ER is designed factoring in the character AND horse double jumping in dungeons and open world. hell not a single area in any of the older games comes close to the insane intricacy of the legacy dungeons in ER.
🤢
No previous fromsoft game comes close in terms of copy-pasted content as well
@grrrr255 Bloodborne. Sekiro.
Awesome video idea. I never knew how much I wanted to see someone cover this topic.
Absolutely stellar narration too :)
Ds1 easily
Elden Ring is the first game to drop my jaw in a while
If they actually fixed the second half in the remaster there would be no debate ds1 on top of elden ring
DS2 really draws on the curse affecting your memory and idea of reality in where youbare going. That really plays on the lore.
bad excuse. if that were true ds1 would also have incorrect level design since chosen undead is also affected by the undead curse.
DS1 doesnt focus on the curse as much more on the prohecy of the chosen undead reestablishing the age of fire.
The focus of the second is the curse itself and how bad it has gotten for the player character. The opening cutscene focuses on how the pc has forgotten several aspects of his previous life.
The 'Elden Ring being too big on replay issue' I blame entirely on Liurnia. Look at the map! Liurnia is bigger than all of Limgrave and Caelid COMBINED.
Bloodborne is awesome but Dark Souls 1 has to take the cake. Once you finally get to Anor Londo its so beautiful.. I'm on my 1st play through, stuck on O and S rn and love it XD
Can always get Solaires help if you still struggling. His summon sign is somewhere in the room with the fogwall.
@@bjartemannnn On the stairs close to the archer.
You've probably already beaten it, but I'm sorry you had to expeirence the absoulute dogshit level design of demon ruins, lost izalith, and tomb of giants. I'm so, so, so, so, so sorry
@iplaygames.3899 Demon Ruins is fine, just lack luster. I actually like Tomb of the Giants, Lost Izalith is hot trash though
@@iplaygames.3899 I'm not picky I enjoyed the whole game, I love the level design the worst DS level is still better then the best "souls like" level...
I beat sekiro while watching your video I think it’s just because your arua made me play better thanks bro
@@MaidenlessRunt-mz7zm Nice, congrats
@@chadofastora thanks bro
DS1
People gripe about the world not being connected past DS1, but I never understood that argument. I mean I understood that it's cool that it's connected, but at the end of the day, you're not going to go from one end of the world to the other side. You get teleported a couple of times, and eventually, you can travel between bonfires, which at that point is just the same as the rest of the games.
It’s the open-ended feel of 1 and design that makes 1 stand out. It’s very much a Metroidvania that allows you to do different things in different orders yet still feels cohesive. Moments like finding how Undead Parish linked to Firelink Shrine, the shortcuts across the map. It made exploration and the world feel lived in, and kept the player further immersed rather than constant fast travel
They want to glorify it so badly because it's totally a perfect timelesss masterpiece.
Don't bother with DS1 fans trying to cope with the fact the game wasn't very good past like the first third.
@@charlestonobryant807 they are not shortcurt everywhere and many time you need to re run in area than you already know coupled with the fact than you are much slower than in ds2,ds3 the fat roll in ds2 is the mid roll of ds1 (i just made a test ) and the fat roll of ds3 is faster and the fact tthan you need to re create a character everytime than you want to try a new build (in a game without fast travel) made the game a little boring
also the lack of estus shard , bone dust , armor weapon, branch ,pharos stone , made the exploration in ds1 less valuable and rewarding
@@asdergold1 it's my least favored of the series but it's still a great game even after the first third
I just wish there was a way to at least get to altus plateou from the begining like how you can beat the game in a couple of hours on botw, it would be so good to replay some of those areas without having to cross aaaaalllll the same grass fields again
I don't personally agree with Elden Ring being #1. Mainly cause it felt like unneeded and uninteresting bloat. I'm not really someone who gets immersed in games that way so that's probably apart of the reason. ER always felt like is the most checklisty Souls game with a lot of garbage that you probably won't even really use. I won't disagree with you saying that ER has great looking areas but DS2 still is on top for visuals of world for me. It's everyone's different experiences sure but for me, I didn't even make it out of Limgrave before I got bored of the dungeons so it felt less "mysterious" for me and more I knew exact how the dungeon layout would be and I knew exactly of a spell or ashes I won't use.
Overall I do agree pretty much with all your list but ER and maybe I would've been a little nicer to Demons Souls but maybe I'm just biased.
Makes sense, like I said I know it isn’t for everyone. Also I really appreciate the non heated disagreement 👍
For me it’s easily Elden Ring! It has the most amounts of variety, different color palettes, best looking vistas & by far the best legacy dungeon designs, probably the best open-world in gaming, Bloodborne has outstanding places like Yharnam, Old Yharnam, Cathedral Ward which are as good as anything from ER, but the rest is considerably worse in comparison & not as memorable, it’s 2nd best after ER.
Best open world ever in gaming? Uhh…
@@laurencevicar5798 Yes it is, at least it’s how I feel, I’ve played a LOT of open-world games, Zelda, GTA, RDR, Ubisoft garbage you name it, I should say one of the best, not THE best.
@@HeyTarnisheduhh…
@@HeyTarnisheddon’t forget Caihurst castle, Hunters nightmare, research hall and fishing hamlet from blood borne
@@7ndl Yo I forgot the DLC, they were amazing too.
I love linear worlds with a limited scope. The ability to go everywhere and anywhere in a humongous world is overwhelming! I loved, for example, Halo Infinite, but did not love the idea of the open world where everything is... empty....same as Elden Ring, although the latter has some more enemies.
I actually really like the lack of realism in ds2’s world design. It makes sense from a story perspective-the cycle of fire and dark has been drawn out for so long that the world itself has begun to collapse. It’s kind of similar to the visual design of the dreg heap or the kiln in ds3, but on a much larger scale. Some people try to explain it away by saying that it’s either magic or laziness, but I don’t like either of those explanations. The elevator rides in earthen peak and aldia’s keep are so jarring that I feel there’s no way those transitions could have been unintentional. They were clearly going for something different from ds1, it just wasn’t something that people vibed with as well as the interconnectivity of that game’s world.
Fair enough
I like the theory. But when I think about how broken some other aspects of DS2 are I can't help but assume it was laziness.
I hate how memorable these games are, I wish I could forget everything and start all of them over again
The first half of Dark Souls 1 is some of the smarted and creative level design I've ever seen
The biggest con is that I am NOT PREPARED to sink 150 more hours into Elden Ring again. But I want more elden ring. Hence, the DLC has been a godsend.
My brain: “surely dark souls 3 is top tier”
I dont like elden dungeons but the legacy dungeons are fantastic. I think soul games are better when they're interconnected like DS1 and Bloodborne. Elden Ring is too long and copy and paste for me.
You don’t go to the top of the windmill to go up to the lava castle
@@tonygonk How so?
@@chadofastora mytha’s boss room isn’t at the top of the windmill, you travel further back, into the mountain, up the elevator and to the lava castle on the other side. I saw some nerdy explanations of it and it makes like 70% sense. The skybox is still totally different but hey
I love the linear design of soulsborne games, it gives that souls feeling, tough, open world design gives more freedom of exploration, it places the different areas into an actual world, it feels more natural, it makes the world feel somewhat more alive, I feel as it has way more potential than what we saw in elden ring, mixing the two design could be done even better.
🔥🙏CHAD OF ASTORA VIDEO JUST DROPPED 🙏🔥
Am at the endgame of ER now and man is it just as good as ds1
So far though, Dark Souls 1 and Elden Ring may have some flaws (izalith for ds1 and samey dungeon visuals for er), but the worlds constructed are so peak and those two are the ones im enjoying the most because of their engaging exploration.
Ds2's areas didnt grab me as much because of the too bright areas for a Dark Souls game, however, it is a very experimental game with unique and varied areas (like that one pirate ship area, dragons aerie). Still amazing just not as interconnected.
Ds3 is very linear yes, and some areas are kinda samey in palette but the individual lvl design is really good.
Sekiro is surprisingly good, even more so than dark souls 3 which is funny because ive heard many times that sekiro is linear and was shocked at how somewhat more open it is than Ds3
I havent played bloodborne demons souls console exclusives 😔
My ranking would be:
Ds2=Ds3
The elevator from Earthen Peak to Iron keep was ridiculous why couldn't they just do the birds nest again or a bonfire to take you there.
After playing all the souls games, i dont think a single game has captured the brilliance as Dark Souls 1 world design and lore
DS1 no contest
I understand why people love the first half of DS1, but the second half is why I've put the least amount of hours into the game.
DS3, BB, and Sekiro have the top world designs imo
I wouldn’t say DS3, Sekiro is interesting at times and BB is pretty good.
I think bloodborne deserves to be MUCH lower. The worst part of it is definitely the beginning in cathedral ward where if you follow the intended path (Old Yharnam and BSB) the door in cathedral ward just opens for no reason and without any hint or clue to suggest that it has. Another thing is the vicar amelia password (fear the old blood) it's not THAT bad and it didn't personally give me much trouble since I just kind of figured it out, but it isn't the best transition. Also with the lake in Byrgenworth it is extremely counterintuitive to jump off the bridge. The only reason i knew to do so was because of messages and watching gameplay. Also all of the DLC/optional areas have warps to get there, (except for upper cathedral ward) instead of a cool path or something to lead you there. It's always just "get a specific item and go to this specific place to warp to a specific place." There's little interconnectivity. Also, many shortcuts in this game are pretty useless, the worst offender being the door in Y'har Goul (Darkbeast Paarl's boss area) that leads back to Old Yharnam. Overall, it's not terrible world design but I'd argue it's much worse than DS3, DeS, and maybe even DS2. (And every other souls game as well.) Really good levels, but pretty bad (as far as souls games go) world design, even if it is far better than most other games, but that's just the quality we expect from Souls.
You lost me at the beginning. You can't make a video about the "best world design" and then discount the world design and only factor in "how many diverging paths it has".
That literally makes no sense.
DS1 ! You can change the title to "...has the best open world design" if you want do select Elden Ring.
Kinda feel like u didn't do your research on 2. There's nothing wrong with warf connecting to Lost Bastille, they're fairly close, it'd be like an hour voyage or less, and as for majula in the distance...well...yes, that's literally where it is. Stand on the death shrine jn macula and you'll see both heides tower ans the lost bastille. You can also see the fortresses from the forest from majula, as well as the very top of drangleic castle
So this list isn't about world design its about interconnectivity. And ends up being just being "does it have a hub and do those hub pathways meetup at any point?" While DS3 is fairly linear like a tree that has some branches, DS2 and Demon Souls are really just hubs. DS2 branches off at DLCs and its end game, though. So they are more like the complete opposite like a bush and honestly is not connected at all because of it. Probably more like building blocks. You can put them in any order but its still very much a straight line. I would say anything but Demon Souls and DS2 has good actual world design. Everything fits, aside from far off areas you teleport to, you can see it off in the distance and have it make sense. DS3 while linear is actually interconnected, but fragmented, in that you can't walk there but you can see other areas that are cutoff by say a broken bridge or something, and its close enough that you could land a hit in the terrain with range.
Also, to be honest from the criteria given, DS1, is most deserving of first. It has a hub, the levels connect down the line, it makes sense. Simply because it is open world doesn't put ER 1st from the criteria given. While you may be able to skip some bosses or areas it is fairly linear in that you have to traverse the areas in that order with it branching off into a semi-optional area at like 3 points and none of them connect other than previous area or next area, linear.
DS1 for me is the indisputable #1.... I much prefer the focused experience it is with a beautifully interconnected world than ER's open world. As good as it is, ER's open world cannot escape the fact that a lot of the world is redundant. I seriously love ER, but DS1 is the GOAT.
Fans of ds1 worldbuilding can eat Capra demon. This game is great to return, but first time it's just annoying