I'm doing something like that for my first campaign as a DM. I'm setting it in the Astral Sea and the players can only pick celestial/astral based subclasses. Things that also focus on Shadow or Time based themes will be allowed.
The lack of moonbeam and faerie fire actually makes sense in Krynn. Krynn has three moons which are the source of arcane magic: a white moon for good magic, a red moon for neutral magic, and a black moon for evil magic. (The three "phases" used in the sub--class are a bit of re-wording so this division makes sense in monolunar worlds.) So a "lunar" sorcerer isn't really a "moon magic" sorcerer, except in the sense that ALL arcane casters in Krynn get their power from one or more of the moons. In Krynn, a "lunar sorcerer" is simply a sorcerer who can shift his focus between the three sources of magic without actually changing his alignment.
Fair logic with the Moonbeam. It also protects the integrity of the Druid Class. They only get that spell. Back in the day a DM would have a lunar cycle gauge. When each moon was at a full moon state the specific alignment would get a boost . For example, the White Robe mage would get a boost when the White Moon was a full moon. 5e didn't go this route, just like you posted. This subclass is fine for those who never had read the books. I believe only Red Robes Mages should have access to this subclass because they are neutral alignment, thus giving them access to all moons.
At first I thought this subclass WAS specific to the position of the moon, but the player just picks one of the three at their whim, each allows great flexibility.
Don't discount Confusion, it's a very powerful spell! :) 1. Unlike many enchantment spells, it's not limited by creature type; it affects undead, constructs, elementals, you name it. 2. Likewise, it ignores all the condition immunities common on tough enemies, most notably Charmed, Incapacitated, Frightened, as well as everything else.
As a DM whose Bard loves _confusion,_ allow me to stan for it - even if something like _hypnotic pattern_ has more general utility, _confusion_ cares nothing for immunity to the charmed and frightened conditions, unlike many other mind-affecting control spells. It works on anything that's a creature, so it's a great backup for when you're fighting undead, constructs or similar.
The number of different mind magic spells I have on my bard is ridiculous I have command, dissonant whispers, Tasha's mind whip, hypnotic pattern, fear, and confusion. I use all of them Hypnotic pattern is a solid opener, fear is great for disabling enemy casters or getting around charm immunity, also good if you don't win initiative and your allies decide to flank the enemy so you can't place HP without hitting your friends. Command and dissonant whispers are both really strong single target crowd control spells, and confusion is great for when you don't know what the enemy is probably immune to, since the only way to be immune to it is to have a mind blank spell on you or a magic item. TMW is also a really strong single target crowd control spell, but it targets intelligence instead of wisdom. Next level I'm picking up synaptic static, which will be my first true damage dealing spell (DW and TMW deal damage but it isn't their main thing) and it continues with the "mind f---ery" theme
Kelly and Monty: We really want all subclasses to fall into A rank, that's the sweet spot. Also Kelly and Monty: Here's all the things we wish this A+ ranked class had that would've made it S rank. 🤣🤣🤣 And that's why I love these guys! I'm exactly the same way. "Here's a list of all the things that would make this too powerful. I'd like all of these, please." ^_^
I think Treantmonk put it best in his video: 15 spells are cool, and the abilities are very flavourful, but then you realize most of them are very situational and you can already pick all the good spells (with stronger subclass features) with clockwork soul.
I honestly think that Divine Soul and possibly Shadow are better subclasses. At least for what I like to do as a sorcerer. I like to be highly specialized and be the absolute best at the one thing my sorcerer is built to do, so maybe it's personal bias. I think Divine Soul has higher potential for a support caster, Shadow miiight have more potential for battlefield control (their abilities are better, but eat sorcery points really quick), and Aberrant Mind and Clockwork soul are better at everything else. Don't get me wrong, it's a powerful subclass, but I personally don't think I'd ever use it. Even if I wanted to do a moon themed sorcerer I think the other mentioned subclasses are all equally good flavor-wise except maybe Clockwork Soul.
@@acquiescinit yeah, this subclass doesn't specialize into really amything, it just feels like the "more sorcerer" sorcerer subclass. Clockwork soul is just stupid good tho. I'd argue that a well built CS with good spell choices makes for a better control caster than anything that isn't a chronurgy wizard with a single level of artificer at level 1.
CORRECTION! They removed Moonbeam due to it being an Evocation spell, a spell school none of the moon phases have, that and the Conjuration spell school...Exactly! They removed Moonbeam.. MOONBEAM! They alredy lent a named spell from the Wizard class spell list. And my favored moon phase the neuttral red/ blood crescent moon got situational spells at best, scuffed. New mooners got gimped a bit to. Im very happy they changed it so all phases represent in total 6 different spell schools of 8 ( evocation and conjuration left out for wane and waxing moons? ). But they could have had better spells. Or at least have good generalist spells AND 1, 2 situational ones for each phase.
First of all, you guys are really awesome and my favourite D&D channel. But also, is there any possibility of you guys to do a Aberrant Mind Sorcerer guide in the future? Would really like to see such a video
Love the fact that you're putting the spells on the screen when talking about them. That's something I've been missing when you talk about feats and the like sometimes, when the description isn't visible. Great to hear that you're listening to feedback!
Takes sailor background...... "Fighting evil by moonlight. Winning love by day light. Never running from a real fight... (Dont forget stars druid either)
The spell list is kind of bummer, but maybe your DM will work with you on replacing certain spells on the list for other ones that would better fit the subclass and character. Overall though I'll never turn down extra prepared spells that don't count against spells known on a sorcerer even if they're not all great.
I get the feeling that Moonbeam was left out of the expanded spell list because of Quickened Spell. Using your Action to move the Moonbeam and then casting another spell with your Bonus Action would be a pretty powerful combo at low-mid levels.
Actually, this is what I've always wanted from sorcerers. Thematic spells. They did this with the UA Storm Sorcerer and then chickened out when they printed the SCAG. And now it's among the worst sorcerer subclasses. But if they included 2 thematic spells per spell level that you can't swap, it allows you to use your regular spells for utility spells or just others you might need for defense or whatnot. So I'm all for this.
I don't mind utility spells, and sometimes having access to them without being able to change them out is the only way a player will choose them. I feel like with easy access to all three phases this subclass doesn't have as definable a character as most others. It seems like Control Water and Tidal Wave would have made sense, since tides are related to phases of our moon, at least. Doesn't feel very lunar to me.
So I realize this was a first impressions video but it needs revising. You can swap the spells in your Lunar Spell List using the regular spellcasting rules for sorcerer, with any spells you want from the Sorcerer's regular spell list. This is slightly weaker than the Tasha's Additional Spell features, because there you get to dip into other classes' spells and you also get to replace two spells per level (One from the Additional Spell list and one from the regular spell list). Meanwhile, Lunar only gets to replace 1 per level and only using the sorcerer's spell list.
You are not correct about not being able to swap out the spells. The 15 spells on the table are added to your spells known and they count as sorcerer spells for you. The *base* sorcerer class feature Spellcasting tells you that you can swap out one sorcerer spell each level with another spell for which you have spell slots. So you are absolutely allowed to swap out these spells. For instance, a 5th-level Lunar Sorcerer can swap out Ray of Sickness for any sorcerer spell of 3rd-level or lower. However, the sorcerer can only ever get a free cast of shield, ray of sickness, or color spray, regardless of whether that sorcerer has swapped out those spells. Why? The features that let you cast those spells for free refer specifically to the Lunar Spells Table and *not* "spells you have gained from the Lunar Embodiment feature".
I would say this is also an S class subclass like AM and CS. I agree it got dinged with the non retrainable Spells Known, but those other abilities like the discounted sorc points, and final defensive options puts it into S tier. Sorcerer has always been good as a Utility Caster even with their limited Spells Known and many seeing them as Only strong Blasters. However with those 15 spells and Cantrip, they can finally be seen as among the greatest Utility Casters you can find/make
Confusion is actually a very good spell treantmonk has actually said in recent videos that he has changed his mind on the power level of confusion. It is hard to resist and generally takes away action economy and can even cause monsters to attack each other
The level 14 feature is part of the reason I'm sad that the Dragonlance adventure ends at level 11. Let me play with those features and make my Lunar Sorcerer better! Concerning the ranking, I agree that this is an A by itself and then gets bumped up to an S with Initiate of the High Robes (taken at level 1). Having read through Dragonlance, Subtle Banishment is something you're going to want more than once.
I saw the point brought up that the Sorcerer's class versatility does let them swap out the lunar sorcery spells, since those do count as sorcery spells - but it most likely isn't RAI and more akin to a failure of clarification Then again, even if it was allowed to swap them out I don't think it'd be too different compared to the Tasha's subclasses - 3 free spells per affected level but you can only swap out one on a level up.
I like this style of sorcerer. Kind of wish they'd update the old sorcerers with something that has so much playstyle in it. Especially that discount on metamagics. For example, Dragon sorcerers being able to get bonus spells based on dragon color. I already had to homebrew the old subclasses to match the tasha's rule for the clockwork soul. The dragon sorcerer is very happy she can swap in invocation spells in place of ones she didn't want.
I built one of these as an npc as an extra for the group in the game I'm running. Ran a one shot with one of my better players and let him run it... cool class and it performed well... glad I watched this as I now better understand how this actually works with the changing of the phases...
Rather than looking at Lunar bonus as getting metamagic at a discount, I think it's more useful to think of it as 3 to 6 extra sorcery points, with restrictions on their use. Restricting the use of this ability to pb/day means it's just another resource to manage and therefore a nice benefit, but not a game changer.
26:10 Subtle Spell is game-changing, but it's not supposed to work for _Suggestion, Detect Thoughts,_ or _Hypnotic Pattern_ because they have Material components.
The print version spell list is vastly inferior to the UA version to the point that eight of the 'bonus spells' are available to Sorcerers compared to only two Sorcerer available spells on the UA version, however if you wouldn't pick them anyway I question their worth as bonus spells at all.
30:30 The emotional damage I took knowing that both of those spells were in the UA version. X~X The thing I'm most upset about though is that this removes the Gatling gun eldritch blast build I was theorycrafting with evocation sorcery point discounts. T_T But besides that, this subclass is freaking amazing regardless! This is the subclass I have been waiting for, for a very long time. Thank you for the amazing content as always, and have an amazing day!
I'm surprised Monty doesn't like the level 4 spell Confusion. When I played an Enchantment Wizard, I took more Enchantment type spells over big combat damage spells. Thanks to that spell, I rendered a large number of soldiers unable to fight from a distance so the party could take out the ones that saved from the spell. It actually took the DM by surprise by how effectively I decimated the encounter, but also didn't like that we had to roll for what happened on each enemy's turn (I think it's kinda like Wild Magic in a sense; what will the enemies do this turn I wonder?)
I'm just a bit confused on the design decisions on the Lunar Sorcerer. Magic on Krynn _is_ dictated by the moons and moon phases, but those moons grand power to spellcasters on the Good/Neutral/Evil axis. Now, certain schools of magic _are_ attributed to those alignments, but the design instead assigns those schools to Full, Waxing/Waning, and New Moon phases instead. Further confusing is the three different spell lists that are part of this odd convention as well. However, designing the Lunar Sorcerer based on the three moons might have been like designing three different subclasses instead, which is a ton of work to both create and try for some semblance of balance. They _should_ have had the spells attributed to one of the moons, and then the Metamagic cost reduction would have been in keeping with whether the currently aligned moon was Full (reduced cost for associated schools), Crescent (no reduction) or New (costs extra) and then designed the rest of the class accordingly. As far as mechanics go, the class does feel like an A+, but in terms of fitting with the theme of the world and lore, I give it a C. They tried, it sorta makes sense, it plays off the theme of the moons, but it just... I dunno. Meh. It would make more sense in literally any other setting _besides_ Dragonlance. Which was unfortunately the point, I think.
Yeah, the moon phases -inspired naming is anything but inspired. There is nothing about the mechanics of those features that is in any way moon-like. I get few people would want to track moon phases, much less of multiple moons, but it's just quite weak in terms integrating mechanics and the fantasy of the subclass, the theme, the flavor. "What are you?" "I am a lunar sorcerer!" "How so?" "Well, I get to pick at will between three lists of spells that are vaguely associated with Krynn's three moons!" "Wow, very moonish!" The whole point about celestial bodies like moons is that they do their own thing of their own accord and influence things in the world. Getting to pick "moon phases" at will runs pretty much counter to that. And it's not like you influence the moon(s) either, there is zero interaction, it's all just a really weak naming theme. They should have skipped the all the waxing/waning-talk and just named the features after Krynn's moons.
Yeah, I don’t care for the player being able to randomly switch phases at will. And it doesn’t seem like it works into the dragonlance mythology as well as it should. If, or when I run a dragonlance campaign, I feel I would want to have a way to track the phases so that moon aligned spellcasters will just have to use what’s available to them during whatever phase it happens to be, and that phase could technically last for several sessions.
@@troy_landon I would hope that you'd run that idea by your players and see if they're down for that idea. Even if your the DM, generally speaking, messing with a player's character sheet/abilities is somewhat uncouth/ill-advised as their character and agency are the few things that they mechanically have control over. I don't foresee many being okay with such thing if they also weren't sold on the idea. It feels bad when a DM's nerf their characters
@@nojusticenetwork9309 that goes without saying. I would definitely try to make the case with my group that it would be better for role-play to make those changes. But definitely wouldn’t do anything to screw up someone’s character if they weren’t down for the change.
If I remember correctly, one of the videos released on the subject by WotC explained that they didn't want this to be useable ONLY on Kyrnn, because people are going to want to use this for more than just the one setting, and people are going to wonder how to use it with the spelljammer campaigns they're probably still in. So they decided to make it more general. It's a reasoning I understand, if not fully agree with.
Imogen wishes this subclass was released when she was making her character lmao. Aberrant mind is the more powerful option but they tend to go for flavour more than anything when making their characters and lunar sorcerer seems much more aligned with what she's going for.
Withering Bloom could be really useful for a sorcerer now. Being able to Quicken & Empower the spell frees up the action for the sorcerer to get on the right position, or do something else with their action. And at the discount rate what would normally cost 3 sorcery points now only costs 1 (Though it does use up two uses of the discount metamagic ability). Also, casting it at higher levels just makes empowered spell that much more useful.
The changing phases mechanic reminds me a little of the Cosmic Sorcerer from 4e... Also, really don't get why Moonbeam isn't on the spell list (considering it's not available to the sorcerer and it was the UA as part of the Full Moon spells). Although I'm sure any DM would probably allow their player to learn the spell regardless.
The subclass has a really interesting design, but t's so annoying how this subclass selects against every moon related spell. Faerie Fire, Moonbeam, Tidal Wave - all incentivised against!
The real bangers of this spell list for me are Shield Lesser restoration Dispel Magic And Confusion I can do without ray of sickness, color spray, alter self, and hold monster... I can't see myself casting these spells... Most of the rest of them are spells I would take for free but aren't reasons to pick this class. Defending my like of confusion and dislike of hold monster Confusion doesn't care about immunity to charm or frightened, and isn't restricted by creature type.... And hold monster there are cheaper options to remove a creature from the battlefield, it's a debilitating debuff, but I wouldn't spend a 5th level spell slot on it for a single monster, especially when I have lower level spell slots that can do the same thing.
Guys, can't you switch away all the extra spells for other sorcerer spells tho? In aberrant mind & clockwork the extra spells had a particular caviar about switching out which this feature doesn't have. So they simply count as sorcerer spells known. So on a level up you should be able to switch them for any other sorcerer level. Or am I missing something??
@@RLKmedic0315 EVERY sorcerer gets that option. "Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots."
Kelly, wtf are you talking about? For a Dragonlance setting? Krynn was the lowest magic setting in all D&D. (Barring maybe Dark Sun, as I never played that one nor read any books about it) Magic users were extremely rare. Most were wizards that had to pass the Test at a High Tower of Sorcery. There were some wild talents (what we now call sorcerers) but they were even rarer. And that was up to the War of the Lance period. Later, when the moon gods withdrew from the world, everyone lost their magic and had to ritually cast spells using rare components. (So they went from 1/4 of the Faerun amount of magic to 1/32 the amount of the FR) So I'm not sure why a buffed up sorcerer is perfect for Krynn. Sorry, I'm old. I have the first 12-14 Dragonlance books and read them again and again back in the 80s. While I liked the connection between the moons and the magic of Krynn, I didn't like the lack of powerful magics. I don't think Raistlin was a 20th level wizard when he challenged the Dragon Queen for her godly portfolio. Krynn was more like Middle Earth in that regard. I think all the restrictions were to prevent high level wizards from dominating the game as was the case in most editions. Now I'm rambling. Anyhoo, maybe they unleashed a torrent of magic over the land like the Spell Plague or the Meteor in Drackenheim. Some kind of lore reason. That being said, I am excited to play one of these sorcerers in a Dragonlance game.
based on optimised builds I've seen I don't think this subclass beats your other A tier classes much either. Maybe it beats shadow, but divine soul has so many other options. This subclass seems to boost defense and utility, but it also sorta pigeonholes you in a way other subclasses don't.
New Moons Discount on enchantment/transmute spells is pretty good since you can twin spell Mind Sliver for 0 sorc points which is a nice thing to have if you want to help get some spells to stick since its an Int save and -1d4 to the next save they make on a fail. Following up with, say, a Quickened Slow for 1 Sorc Point is pretty good value imho, especially if you have someone else in the party willing to cast bane making CCing groups of enemies just a bit easier.
Idk, man... Lunar seems weak. Maybe i'm missing something. The only thing i like is the -1 sorcery for metamagic. I wish we could cast once for free one spell from each level when we hit level 6.
If I were to play this Subclass, I think I would choose to challenge myself by actually basing the Moon Phases on the actual current phase of the moon in game. Don't really take the ability to pick and choose it, and the Waxing and Waning ability only working until the end of my next turn then make it a once or twice per long rest ability Wouldn't make any of my players do this. They can play it how they want. I just love the tying it to the World my Sorcerer is in and challenging me to work with what I have at that time
I don't know if it's just me but it feels like you don't get any real "abilities" until late game, you get more spells and ways to make casting "cheaper" but you don't get anything particularly unique until late game which makes it sound less appealing for me personally.
Love the show, ive been subbed for awhile but dear god please stop talking down on powerful spells like crown of madness and in this video the spell confusion. These are great spells that can easily turn the tide in many situations bith in and out of combat. You guys have a huge fanbase and when you discount a spell it reaches my players too. Suddenly, they begin to think the same up until an enemy caster uses it on them or one of the NPC's.
I took vampiric touch on my scribes wizard so I can cast necrotic fireballs, not rlly gonna use the spell tho. Y’all mentioned the spell so I thought I’d toss in a possible “application” for it
Can we talk about the premise of using cantrips with metamagic for completely free? Pre-One DND update being able to cast a quickened spell guidance or resistance is nutty; as is subtle spell mind spike/friends/message/minor illusion, and prestidigitation; heightened spell toll the dead; and (my personal favorite) quickened spell true strike at the end of your turn...lets actually make that cantrip useful: "Who likes having free advantage without wasting their action? 🖐"
I would most definitely never spend "just" 2 sorcery points to heighten Toll the dead, that seems super lame. Also, quickening a cantrip for 1 sorcery point has zero relevance, since you can already cast the cantrip as your action and then quicken your leveled spell for the exact same price and action economy, just in a different order. The subtle cantrips out of combat is the only option that actually seems appealing here.
@@rickrack4325 @Rickrack touche on most of those points, especially the heightened spell being a standard 3. Forgot on that one. Though 2 new points did come to mind. First, empowered spell would actually be entirely free (cantrips or level spells) to always increase your average damage dice rolled on spells. Second, twin spell on cantrips requiring an attack roll would require 0 sorcery points. Out of the schools listed in the feat that would be chill touch and thorn whip (of course assuming you are willing to take methods to gain access to cantrips of non-sorc classes and multiple targets are available in range). Neither are bad options here, chill touch for anti heal and thorn whip to give battlefield control.
@@TheEphemeralEternity Yes, all of the metamagic that normally cost 1 and would now cost 0 are sweet deals. It's not uncommon at all for me to twin a Ray of Frost or a Chill Touch even if I use a sorcery point because the damage output and effects are nice for the limited resources invested. Now quickening is of course always nice and for just 1 point it's just extra nice, but if I use a cantrip as my action, Guidance, Resistance and True Strike all seem like bad choices. Unless, for the latter, you're a Divine Soul or something and you wanna set yourself up for a big upcast Inflict Wounds or Guiding Bolt, but as a Lunar, I can't think of a spell with an attack roll that would actually make it worth it.
@@rickrack4325 i was more thinking of the potential of multiclassing with Rogue (sorry should have clarified). We get these metamagic alterations early enough to allow for reliable multiclassing; so in a case where you are incapable of stealthing reliably, you could quicken true strike to gain advantage on attack rolls next turn while not sacrificing your main action weapon attacks.
For that, I think it goes to building the origin of this subclass from Dragonlance and Krynn’s three moons. The Full Moon phase reflects the White Moon, which is connected to the pantheon of 7 Good gods led by Paladine (Krynn’s aspect of Bahamut). The Crescent Moon phase reflects the Red Moon, connected to the pantheon of 7 Neutral gods led by Gilean. The New Moon phase reflects the Black Moon, connected to the pantheon of 7 Evil gods led by Takhisis (Krynn’s aspect of Tiamat). Magic-users on Krynn align themselves with one of the moons, and display their allegiance by the color robe they wear (White, Red, or Black). The strength of their magic waxes and wanes with the phase and prominence of their chosen moon, and at higher levels the spells they can access and utilize are tied to their moon’s alignment. Notably in the Dragonlance novels, the wizard Raistlin starts as a Red Robe, but turns to a Black Robe in pursuit of personal power and access to Black spells. So while Moonbeam and Faerie Fire otherwise feel thematic to a Lunar sorcerer, it is harder to place those spells in a specific alignment between the three moons.
@@JoRoq1 All of that is probably true, but it turns out in the UA they did have Moonbeam and Faerie Fire. Presumably they were removed for balance reasons, though they were also out of place given that New Moon had the Evocation school, but they were granted by the Full Moon.
@@smallolive Balance concerns aside, the rest of your statement proves my point. Granted by Full Moon, but benefiting more from New Moon? That the categorization issue exactly.
Getting Rary's telepathic bond would be so great if they were ritual casters... I can't see even at high levels using a 5th level spell slot on that one unless it was a day of complete downtime. Same thing with phantom steed.
If you take far spell, you can make vampiric touch halfway good for free prof times per day. Since it now has a range of 30ft. Take ritual caster snd phantom steed can keep you pretty safe while doing it
Vampiric touch isn't AWFUL, its just not great, I don't think 3rd level is the right place for it but D&D has to have its sacred cows. I have worked a sorlock that specialized in touch spells using the distant spell metamagic that was actually pretty fun (Celestial warlock/ Divine soul). They weren't "optimal" but they were fun and very useful for both utility and damage output. On vampiric touch basically unless you are wounded it is just plain worse than cause wounds. Edit: From what I have read and heard watching this video some of the GO TO metamagics I would normally consider are really secondary to things like quicken or subtle.
I love your channel and it's content. I am getting back into D&D and being a DM. I want to join your patreon but already and with Ginny Di. I try to join and it says I already have or am on a patreon. Any idea how to join yours as well? I really want to support your guys channel and your amazing work. You and Ginni Di help so many players and us Dms your work must grow and always roll 20 in your channels efforts.
Due to narrative reasons in my current campaign, my DM is letting me tag out my current character for a new one of equal level. Having decided on a Lunar Sorcerer, I realized that there is one combo that becomes a bit more cost efficient in the right phase of the moon. Quickened Spell the Mind Sliver cantrip, followed by a Heightened Spell Hold Person (/Hold Monster at higher levels). Assuming your target fails the Intelligence saving throw of Mind Sliver, they are now making the save against your Hold spell at disadvantage MINUS 1d4. Yes, any Sorcerer can do this combo. You just get to save a couple of points to allocate elsewhere as a Lunar.
Doesn't work, if you cast a spell as a bonus action you can only do a cantrip as your action. You'd have to Quicken the Hold, but then it's not Heightened.
Lunar Empowerment Full Moon lets you grant advantage on Investigation and Perception checks. Can't you do the same thing with a torch and the Help action?
This subclass is a big step down from tasha's subclasses imo. Other subclasses actually gave some mechanically and thematically fun things. This one nearly all the skills are focused on making a discount on your sorcery points and add barely anything for a lunar themed sorcerer. Spell list is also very confusing.
Yikes, they really downgraded the spell list from the unearthed arcana version of this subclass. I guess they were ok keeping everything else, but thought the more appropriately themed spell list was too strong.
I'm grumpy on this because sorcerors drawing from the moons on Krynn goes against original campaign lore, but they did keep with the idea that blasting everything is bad
Half-moon and gibbous moon are missing as phases. I can imagine home-brewed rules for evocation and conjugation using each of these (1 per phase rather than two to balance things) or perhaps a world with twin moons and the syncing of phases to further mitigate the fireball spamming while allowing for some blasting fun.
Can someone explain to me how moonbeam is good? I feel like I’m missing something. 2d10 damage per target per turn for that small a space seems really weak to me.
So we can now have an entire party of 'Night Casters'. Twilight cleric, Lunar sorc, and Moon and Stars druids
That's actually a pretty good team, there's a frontline, support, damage and control!
@@ThomasBD Yeah. Also the sorc and two druids can help as well.
@@remyb6854 This.
Add in a Gloom Stalker Ranger and Shadow Monk and you have real team of night stalkers .
I'm doing something like that for my first campaign as a DM. I'm setting it in the Astral Sea and the players can only pick celestial/astral based subclasses. Things that also focus on Shadow or Time based themes will be allowed.
The lack of moonbeam and faerie fire actually makes sense in Krynn. Krynn has three moons which are the source of arcane magic: a white moon for good magic, a red moon for neutral magic, and a black moon for evil magic. (The three "phases" used in the sub--class are a bit of re-wording so this division makes sense in monolunar worlds.) So a "lunar" sorcerer isn't really a "moon magic" sorcerer, except in the sense that ALL arcane casters in Krynn get their power from one or more of the moons. In Krynn, a "lunar sorcerer" is simply a sorcerer who can shift his focus between the three sources of magic without actually changing his alignment.
So every caster should get moon beam then?
Still a baffling restriction to people who want to play Lunar Soul outside that setting
Fair logic with the Moonbeam.
It also protects the integrity of the Druid Class. They only get that spell.
Back in the day a DM would have a lunar cycle gauge.
When each moon was at a full moon state the specific alignment would get a boost .
For example, the White Robe mage would get a boost when the White Moon was a full moon.
5e didn't go this route, just like you posted. This subclass is fine for those who never had read the books.
I believe only Red Robes Mages should have access to this subclass because they are neutral alignment, thus giving them access to all moons.
At first I thought this subclass WAS specific to the position of the moon, but the player just picks one of the three at their whim, each allows great flexibility.
They do in Eberron too. There's 12 (13) moons so you will be constantly rotating between the phases depending on the moons chosen to give you power.
Don't discount Confusion, it's a very powerful spell! :) 1. Unlike many enchantment spells, it's not limited by creature type; it affects undead, constructs, elementals, you name it. 2. Likewise, it ignores all the condition immunities common on tough enemies, most notably Charmed, Incapacitated, Frightened, as well as everything else.
Confusion really shines at high level play.
At 7th level it’s almost never going to get cast.
One of the few spells that gets better as you go to higher levels of play
Well... If I ever get back to the one shot my group didn't finish I'ma test it out. I think we're level 15 rn.
As a DM whose Bard loves _confusion,_ allow me to stan for it - even if something like _hypnotic pattern_ has more general utility, _confusion_ cares nothing for immunity to the charmed and frightened conditions, unlike many other mind-affecting control spells. It works on anything that's a creature, so it's a great backup for when you're fighting undead, constructs or similar.
The number of different mind magic spells I have on my bard is ridiculous
I have command, dissonant whispers, Tasha's mind whip, hypnotic pattern, fear, and confusion. I use all of them
Hypnotic pattern is a solid opener, fear is great for disabling enemy casters or getting around charm immunity, also good if you don't win initiative and your allies decide to flank the enemy so you can't place HP without hitting your friends. Command and dissonant whispers are both really strong single target crowd control spells, and confusion is great for when you don't know what the enemy is probably immune to, since the only way to be immune to it is to have a mind blank spell on you or a magic item.
TMW is also a really strong single target crowd control spell, but it targets intelligence instead of wisdom. Next level I'm picking up synaptic static, which will be my first true damage dealing spell (DW and TMW deal damage but it isn't their main thing) and it continues with the "mind f---ery" theme
Kelly and Monty: We really want all subclasses to fall into A rank, that's the sweet spot.
Also Kelly and Monty: Here's all the things we wish this A+ ranked class had that would've made it S rank. 🤣🤣🤣
And that's why I love these guys! I'm exactly the same way. "Here's a list of all the things that would make this too powerful. I'd like all of these, please." ^_^
I think Treantmonk put it best in his video: 15 spells are cool, and the abilities are very flavourful, but then you realize most of them are very situational and you can already pick all the good spells (with stronger subclass features) with clockwork soul.
I honestly think that Divine Soul and possibly Shadow are better subclasses. At least for what I like to do as a sorcerer. I like to be highly specialized and be the absolute best at the one thing my sorcerer is built to do, so maybe it's personal bias. I think Divine Soul has higher potential for a support caster, Shadow miiight have more potential for battlefield control (their abilities are better, but eat sorcery points really quick), and Aberrant Mind and Clockwork soul are better at everything else.
Don't get me wrong, it's a powerful subclass, but I personally don't think I'd ever use it. Even if I wanted to do a moon themed sorcerer I think the other mentioned subclasses are all equally good flavor-wise except maybe Clockwork Soul.
@@acquiescinit yeah, this subclass doesn't specialize into really amything, it just feels like the "more sorcerer" sorcerer subclass.
Clockwork soul is just stupid good tho. I'd argue that a well built CS with good spell choices makes for a better control caster than anything that isn't a chronurgy wizard with a single level of artificer at level 1.
Even older sorcerers I believe are better
CORRECTION! They removed Moonbeam due to it being an Evocation spell, a spell school none of the moon phases have, that and the Conjuration spell school...Exactly! They removed Moonbeam.. MOONBEAM! They alredy lent a named spell from the Wizard class spell list. And my favored moon phase the neuttral red/ blood crescent moon got situational spells at best, scuffed. New mooners got gimped a bit to. Im very happy they changed it so all phases represent in total 6 different spell schools of 8 ( evocation and conjuration left out for wane and waxing moons? ). But they could have had better spells. Or at least have good generalist spells AND 1, 2 situational ones for each phase.
This is definitely an advanced subclass, and will require careful planning and info gathering to get the most of. Sounds really cool to me!
Need to play an Eladrin Lunar Sorcerer. Four personalities, three lunar phases. Twelve characters for the price of one!
First of all, you guys are really awesome and my favourite D&D channel. But also, is there any possibility of you guys to do a Aberrant Mind Sorcerer guide in the future? Would really like to see such a video
I would very much like to see that too
Thirded!
Love the fact that you're putting the spells on the screen when talking about them. That's something I've been missing when you talk about feats and the like sometimes, when the description isn't visible. Great to hear that you're listening to feedback!
party idea: the space force (lunar sorcerer, moon druid, twilight cleric, cosmic warlock)
Takes sailor background......
"Fighting evil by moonlight. Winning love by day light. Never running from a real fight...
(Dont forget stars druid either)
Watchers paladin, too
Me like, lets moon em all to spaaaace and beyond! Do the moondance!
Stars druid to avoid the overlap between a LUNAR sorc and MOON Druid
Don't forget Horizon walker Ranger
Kelly: " the lunar soul sorcerer gets to draw on the power of all three moons"
Me to myself out loud: "blasphemy!"
The spell list is kind of bummer, but maybe your DM will work with you on replacing certain spells on the list for other ones that would better fit the subclass and character. Overall though I'll never turn down extra prepared spells that don't count against spells known on a sorcerer even if they're not all great.
You guys make my favorite dnd videos, love the quality content ❤
I think that's one flavor Wild Magic could take. But I agree.
Always excited for new Sorcerer Subclasses
Now we need WotC to turn there lunar theme to the fighter so we can get Moon Knight!... I'll show myself out.
Why the heck doesn't a *LUNAR* sorcerer get *MOONBEAM* ?!?!
You can now create a very tanky Gish character. Fighter/Sorcerer. Having a discount on abjuration spells is marvelous!
I get the feeling that Moonbeam was left out of the expanded spell list because of Quickened Spell. Using your Action to move the Moonbeam and then casting another spell with your Bonus Action would be a pretty powerful combo at low-mid levels.
Actually, this is what I've always wanted from sorcerers. Thematic spells. They did this with the UA Storm Sorcerer and then chickened out when they printed the SCAG. And now it's among the worst sorcerer subclasses. But if they included 2 thematic spells per spell level that you can't swap, it allows you to use your regular spells for utility spells or just others you might need for defense or whatnot. So I'm all for this.
I don't mind utility spells, and sometimes having access to them without being able to change them out is the only way a player will choose them. I feel like with easy access to all three phases this subclass doesn't have as definable a character as most others. It seems like Control Water and Tidal Wave would have made sense, since tides are related to phases of our moon, at least. Doesn't feel very lunar to me.
So I realize this was a first impressions video but it needs revising.
You can swap the spells in your Lunar Spell List using the regular spellcasting rules for sorcerer, with any spells you want from the Sorcerer's regular spell list. This is slightly weaker than the Tasha's Additional Spell features, because there you get to dip into other classes' spells and you also get to replace two spells per level (One from the Additional Spell list and one from the regular spell list). Meanwhile, Lunar only gets to replace 1 per level and only using the sorcerer's spell list.
You are not correct about not being able to swap out the spells.
The 15 spells on the table are added to your spells known and they count as sorcerer spells for you. The *base* sorcerer class feature Spellcasting tells you that you can swap out one sorcerer spell each level with another spell for which you have spell slots. So you are absolutely allowed to swap out these spells. For instance, a 5th-level Lunar Sorcerer can swap out Ray of Sickness for any sorcerer spell of 3rd-level or lower.
However, the sorcerer can only ever get a free cast of shield, ray of sickness, or color spray, regardless of whether that sorcerer has swapped out those spells. Why? The features that let you cast those spells for free refer specifically to the Lunar Spells Table and *not* "spells you have gained from the Lunar Embodiment feature".
I would say this is also an S class subclass like AM and CS. I agree it got dinged with the non retrainable Spells Known, but those other abilities like the discounted sorc points, and final defensive options puts it into S tier. Sorcerer has always been good as a Utility Caster even with their limited Spells Known and many seeing them as Only strong Blasters. However with those 15 spells and Cantrip, they can finally be seen as among the greatest Utility Casters you can find/make
Confusion is actually a very good spell treantmonk has actually said in recent videos that he has changed his mind on the power level of confusion. It is hard to resist and generally takes away action economy and can even cause monsters to attack each other
The level 14 feature is part of the reason I'm sad that the Dragonlance adventure ends at level 11. Let me play with those features and make my Lunar Sorcerer better!
Concerning the ranking, I agree that this is an A by itself and then gets bumped up to an S with Initiate of the High Robes (taken at level 1). Having read through Dragonlance, Subtle Banishment is something you're going to want more than once.
I saw the point brought up that the Sorcerer's class versatility does let them swap out the lunar sorcery spells, since those do count as sorcery spells - but it most likely isn't RAI and more akin to a failure of clarification
Then again, even if it was allowed to swap them out I don't think it'd be too different compared to the Tasha's subclasses - 3 free spells per affected level but you can only swap out one on a level up.
I think, the Lunar Sorcerer (especially New Moon flavor) is a cool choice for a Sorlock...I put it on my list of next characters ;-)
Moon fire as a dual target spell (like acid splash) is kind of an AOE. It's like a lesser moonbeam spell. And it scales, like every cantrip does.
I would redo the spell lists, and make assign each to a phase exclusively. Remove the free fist level casting and let them ritual cast
I would love this. Phantom Steed and Rary's without the ability to ritual cast causes damage to my soul.
Being able to Twin Spell Suggestion for 1 Sorcery Point multiple times a day is the kind of thing that will outright break entire games.
I like this style of sorcerer. Kind of wish they'd update the old sorcerers with something that has so much playstyle in it. Especially that discount on metamagics. For example, Dragon sorcerers being able to get bonus spells based on dragon color. I already had to homebrew the old subclasses to match the tasha's rule for the clockwork soul. The dragon sorcerer is very happy she can swap in invocation spells in place of ones she didn't want.
I built one of these as an npc as an extra for the group in the game I'm running. Ran a one shot with one of my better players and let him run it... cool class and it performed well... glad I watched this as I now better understand how this actually works with the changing of the phases...
WotC needs to come out with Bloodline Spell Lists for every Sorcerous Origin type.
Rather than looking at Lunar bonus as getting metamagic at a discount, I think it's more useful to think of it as 3 to 6 extra sorcery points, with restrictions on their use. Restricting the use of this ability to pb/day means it's just another resource to manage and therefore a nice benefit, but not a game changer.
26:10 Subtle Spell is game-changing, but it's not supposed to work for _Suggestion, Detect Thoughts,_ or _Hypnotic Pattern_ because they have Material components.
I just love it that you added Dr. to your name in the opening titles
The print version spell list is vastly inferior to the UA version to the point that eight of the 'bonus spells' are available to Sorcerers compared to only two Sorcerer available spells on the UA version, however if you wouldn't pick them anyway I question their worth as bonus spells at all.
Could you guys make one of those videos that fix some subclasses focused on the four elements monk, please????
Eladrin lunar sorcerer gonna have a whole new character every time they wake up lol
Don’t forget you could extend Mage Armor in Full Moon phase for a discount getting 16 hours of mage armor
30:30
The emotional damage I took knowing that both of those spells were in the UA version. X~X
The thing I'm most upset about though is that this removes the Gatling gun eldritch blast build I was theorycrafting with evocation sorcery point discounts. T_T
But besides that, this subclass is freaking amazing regardless! This is the subclass I have been waiting for, for a very long time.
Thank you for the amazing content as always, and have an amazing day!
I'm surprised Monty doesn't like the level 4 spell Confusion. When I played an Enchantment Wizard, I took more Enchantment type spells over big combat damage spells. Thanks to that spell, I rendered a large number of soldiers unable to fight from a distance so the party could take out the ones that saved from the spell. It actually took the DM by surprise by how effectively I decimated the encounter, but also didn't like that we had to roll for what happened on each enemy's turn (I think it's kinda like Wild Magic in a sense; what will the enemies do this turn I wonder?)
Nice Blockbuster shirt. I believe in them. THEY COMING BACK!
I don't think the Empowered Spell ability is the end all, be all. Build a Lunar Sorcerer without it.
ohhhh so this huge hat n benny were hiding..........
a badass mohawk ! that's cool Kelly , welcome among the braves !
I'm just a bit confused on the design decisions on the Lunar Sorcerer. Magic on Krynn _is_ dictated by the moons and moon phases, but those moons grand power to spellcasters on the Good/Neutral/Evil axis. Now, certain schools of magic _are_ attributed to those alignments, but the design instead assigns those schools to Full, Waxing/Waning, and New Moon phases instead. Further confusing is the three different spell lists that are part of this odd convention as well.
However, designing the Lunar Sorcerer based on the three moons might have been like designing three different subclasses instead, which is a ton of work to both create and try for some semblance of balance. They _should_ have had the spells attributed to one of the moons, and then the Metamagic cost reduction would have been in keeping with whether the currently aligned moon was Full (reduced cost for associated schools), Crescent (no reduction) or New (costs extra) and then designed the rest of the class accordingly.
As far as mechanics go, the class does feel like an A+, but in terms of fitting with the theme of the world and lore, I give it a C. They tried, it sorta makes sense, it plays off the theme of the moons, but it just... I dunno. Meh. It would make more sense in literally any other setting _besides_ Dragonlance. Which was unfortunately the point, I think.
Yeah, the moon phases -inspired naming is anything but inspired. There is nothing about the mechanics of those features that is in any way moon-like. I get few people would want to track moon phases, much less of multiple moons, but it's just quite weak in terms integrating mechanics and the fantasy of the subclass, the theme, the flavor. "What are you?" "I am a lunar sorcerer!" "How so?" "Well, I get to pick at will between three lists of spells that are vaguely associated with Krynn's three moons!" "Wow, very moonish!"
The whole point about celestial bodies like moons is that they do their own thing of their own accord and influence things in the world. Getting to pick "moon phases" at will runs pretty much counter to that. And it's not like you influence the moon(s) either, there is zero interaction, it's all just a really weak naming theme. They should have skipped the all the waxing/waning-talk and just named the features after Krynn's moons.
Yeah, I don’t care for the player being able to randomly switch phases at will. And it doesn’t seem like it works into the dragonlance mythology as well as it should. If, or when I run a dragonlance campaign, I feel I would want to have a way to track the phases so that moon aligned spellcasters will just have to use what’s available to them during whatever phase it happens to be, and that phase could technically last for several sessions.
@@troy_landon I would hope that you'd run that idea by your players and see if they're down for that idea. Even if your the DM, generally speaking, messing with a player's character sheet/abilities is somewhat uncouth/ill-advised as their character and agency are the few things that they mechanically have control over. I don't foresee many being okay with such thing if they also weren't sold on the idea. It feels bad when a DM's nerf their characters
@@nojusticenetwork9309 that goes without saying. I would definitely try to make the case with my group that it would be better for role-play to make those changes. But definitely wouldn’t do anything to screw up someone’s character if they weren’t down for the change.
If I remember correctly, one of the videos released on the subject by WotC explained that they didn't want this to be useable ONLY on Kyrnn, because people are going to want to use this for more than just the one setting, and people are going to wonder how to use it with the spelljammer campaigns they're probably still in. So they decided to make it more general.
It's a reasoning I understand, if not fully agree with.
This gives me Imogen Temult vibes from Critical Role campaign 3
Same
Imogen wishes this subclass was released when she was making her character lmao.
Aberrant mind is the more powerful option but they tend to go for flavour more than anything when making their characters and lunar sorcerer seems much more aligned with what she's going for.
Withering Bloom could be really useful for a sorcerer now. Being able to Quicken & Empower the spell frees up the action for the sorcerer to get on the right position, or do something else with their action.
And at the discount rate what would normally cost 3 sorcery points now only costs 1 (Though it does use up two uses of the discount metamagic ability).
Also, casting it at higher levels just makes empowered spell that much more useful.
The changing phases mechanic reminds me a little of the Cosmic Sorcerer from 4e... Also, really don't get why Moonbeam isn't on the spell list (considering it's not available to the sorcerer and it was the UA as part of the Full Moon spells). Although I'm sure any DM would probably allow their player to learn the spell regardless.
Treantmonk ripped this to bits.
The subclass has a really interesting design, but t's so annoying how this subclass selects against every moon related spell. Faerie Fire, Moonbeam, Tidal Wave - all incentivised against!
Man that spell list is such a let down compared to UA. I'd still rather play one of the Tasha classes but at least it's not as weak as older Sorcs.
The real bangers of this spell list for me are
Shield
Lesser restoration
Dispel Magic
And Confusion
I can do without ray of sickness, color spray, alter self, and hold monster... I can't see myself casting these spells... Most of the rest of them are spells I would take for free but aren't reasons to pick this class.
Defending my like of confusion and dislike of hold monster
Confusion doesn't care about immunity to charm or frightened, and isn't restricted by creature type.... And hold monster there are cheaper options to remove a creature from the battlefield, it's a debilitating debuff, but I wouldn't spend a 5th level spell slot on it for a single monster, especially when I have lower level spell slots that can do the same thing.
Guys, can't you switch away all the extra spells for other sorcerer spells tho? In aberrant mind & clockwork the extra spells had a particular caviar about switching out which this feature doesn't have. So they simply count as sorcerer spells known. So on a level up you should be able to switch them for any other sorcerer level. Or am I missing something??
The Lunar Sorcerer does not get that option.
@@RLKmedic0315 EVERY sorcerer gets that option. "Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the sorcerer spells you know and replace it with another spell from the sorcerer spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots."
Nice vintage shirt!
Kelly, wtf are you talking about? For a Dragonlance setting? Krynn was the lowest magic setting in all D&D. (Barring maybe Dark Sun, as I never played that one nor read any books about it) Magic users were extremely rare. Most were wizards that had to pass the Test at a High Tower of Sorcery. There were some wild talents (what we now call sorcerers) but they were even rarer. And that was up to the War of the Lance period. Later, when the moon gods withdrew from the world, everyone lost their magic and had to ritually cast spells using rare components. (So they went from 1/4 of the Faerun amount of magic to 1/32 the amount of the FR) So I'm not sure why a buffed up sorcerer is perfect for Krynn. Sorry, I'm old. I have the first 12-14 Dragonlance books and read them again and again back in the 80s. While I liked the connection between the moons and the magic of Krynn, I didn't like the lack of powerful magics. I don't think Raistlin was a 20th level wizard when he challenged the Dragon Queen for her godly portfolio. Krynn was more like Middle Earth in that regard. I think all the restrictions were to prevent high level wizards from dominating the game as was the case in most editions. Now I'm rambling. Anyhoo, maybe they unleashed a torrent of magic over the land like the Spell Plague or the Meteor in Drackenheim. Some kind of lore reason. That being said, I am excited to play one of these sorcerers in a Dragonlance game.
based on optimised builds I've seen I don't think this subclass beats your other A tier classes much either. Maybe it beats shadow, but divine soul has so many other options. This subclass seems to boost defense and utility, but it also sorta pigeonholes you in a way other subclasses don't.
New Moons Discount on enchantment/transmute spells is pretty good since you can twin spell Mind Sliver for 0 sorc points which is a nice thing to have if you want to help get some spells to stick since its an Int save and -1d4 to the next save they make on a fail. Following up with, say, a Quickened Slow for 1 Sorc Point is pretty good value imho, especially if you have someone else in the party willing to cast bane making CCing groups of enemies just a bit easier.
Or take distant spell and shadow touched, now you can cast inflict wounds at 30ft for free
Idk, man... Lunar seems weak. Maybe i'm missing something. The only thing i like is the -1 sorcery for metamagic. I wish we could cast once for free one spell from each level when we hit level 6.
If I were to play this Subclass, I think I would choose to challenge myself by actually basing the Moon Phases on the actual current phase of the moon in game. Don't really take the ability to pick and choose it, and the Waxing and Waning ability only working until the end of my next turn then make it a once or twice per long rest ability
Wouldn't make any of my players do this. They can play it how they want. I just love the tying it to the World my Sorcerer is in and challenging me to work with what I have at that time
I don't know if it's just me but it feels like you don't get any real "abilities" until late game, you get more spells and ways to make casting "cheaper" but you don't get anything particularly unique until late game which makes it sound less appealing for me personally.
Love the show, ive been subbed for awhile but dear god please stop talking down on powerful spells like crown of madness and in this video the spell confusion. These are great spells that can easily turn the tide in many situations bith in and out of combat. You guys have a huge fanbase and when you discount a spell it reaches my players too. Suddenly, they begin to think the same up until an enemy caster uses it on them or one of the NPC's.
I took vampiric touch on my scribes wizard so I can cast necrotic fireballs, not rlly gonna use the spell tho. Y’all mentioned the spell so I thought I’d toss in a possible “application” for it
blockbuster...that was like a streaming service before netflix right? I am kidding. Don't roast me lol.
Can we talk about the premise of using cantrips with metamagic for completely free? Pre-One DND update being able to cast a quickened spell guidance or resistance is nutty; as is subtle spell mind spike/friends/message/minor illusion, and prestidigitation; heightened spell toll the dead; and (my personal favorite) quickened spell true strike at the end of your turn...lets actually make that cantrip useful: "Who likes having free advantage without wasting their action? 🖐"
I would most definitely never spend "just" 2 sorcery points to heighten Toll the dead, that seems super lame. Also, quickening a cantrip for 1 sorcery point has zero relevance, since you can already cast the cantrip as your action and then quicken your leveled spell for the exact same price and action economy, just in a different order. The subtle cantrips out of combat is the only option that actually seems appealing here.
@@rickrack4325 @Rickrack touche on most of those points, especially the heightened spell being a standard 3. Forgot on that one.
Though 2 new points did come to mind. First, empowered spell would actually be entirely free (cantrips or level spells) to always increase your average damage dice rolled on spells.
Second, twin spell on cantrips requiring an attack roll would require 0 sorcery points. Out of the schools listed in the feat that would be chill touch and thorn whip (of course assuming you are willing to take methods to gain access to cantrips of non-sorc classes and multiple targets are available in range). Neither are bad options here, chill touch for anti heal and thorn whip to give battlefield control.
@@TheEphemeralEternity Yes, all of the metamagic that normally cost 1 and would now cost 0 are sweet deals. It's not uncommon at all for me to twin a Ray of Frost or a Chill Touch even if I use a sorcery point because the damage output and effects are nice for the limited resources invested.
Now quickening is of course always nice and for just 1 point it's just extra nice, but if I use a cantrip as my action, Guidance, Resistance and True Strike all seem like bad choices. Unless, for the latter, you're a Divine Soul or something and you wanna set yourself up for a big upcast Inflict Wounds or Guiding Bolt, but as a Lunar, I can't think of a spell with an attack roll that would actually make it worth it.
@@rickrack4325 i was more thinking of the potential of multiclassing with Rogue (sorry should have clarified). We get these metamagic alterations early enough to allow for reliable multiclassing; so in a case where you are incapable of stealthing reliably, you could quicken true strike to gain advantage on attack rolls next turn while not sacrificing your main action weapon attacks.
Still confused on how the moon sorcerer didnt get moonbeam as a spell
For that, I think it goes to building the origin of this subclass from Dragonlance and Krynn’s three moons.
The Full Moon phase reflects the White Moon, which is connected to the pantheon of 7 Good gods led by Paladine (Krynn’s aspect of Bahamut).
The Crescent Moon phase reflects the Red Moon, connected to the pantheon of 7 Neutral gods led by Gilean.
The New Moon phase reflects the Black Moon, connected to the pantheon of 7 Evil gods led by Takhisis (Krynn’s aspect of Tiamat).
Magic-users on Krynn align themselves with one of the moons, and display their allegiance by the color robe they wear (White, Red, or Black). The strength of their magic waxes and wanes with the phase and prominence of their chosen moon, and at higher levels the spells they can access and utilize are tied to their moon’s alignment.
Notably in the Dragonlance novels, the wizard Raistlin starts as a Red Robe, but turns to a Black Robe in pursuit of personal power and access to Black spells.
So while Moonbeam and Faerie Fire otherwise feel thematic to a Lunar sorcerer, it is harder to place those spells in a specific alignment between the three moons.
@@JoRoq1 All of that is probably true, but it turns out in the UA they did have Moonbeam and Faerie Fire. Presumably they were removed for balance reasons, though they were also out of place given that New Moon had the Evocation school, but they were granted by the Full Moon.
@@smallolive Balance concerns aside, the rest of your statement proves my point. Granted by Full Moon, but benefiting more from New Moon? That the categorization issue exactly.
Lvl14-18 subclass features would be great, if they came online 3-5 lvls earlier😅
Why don't you guys retrain your classes ever in your love play?! Would be awesome to see you play and try new content as they come out periodically :)
It is so weird that we have the full moon, crescent moon, and new moon stuff... There are 3 moons on Krynn. Surely those were plan A
14th level New Moon LunSorc: You think the Darkness is your ally....
Can someone remember what the name of an expansion that the dungeon dudes advertised, that includes progressions for lycanthropy?
Grimm hollow if i’m not mistaken!
I played as an astral elf lunar sorcerer. The racial features paired well with the class abilities and made for some pretty interesting plays
Jeez....
5e wasn't complicated enough already?!?
Why.... NO... MOONBEAM!!!???!?!?!? WotC dropped the ball!
The UA spells were much better... they had Feary Fire and Moonbeam.
Wouldn't the fact that the help action exists negate the value of the full moon 10ft light ability
free stable spell on silvery barbs (its enchantment school), dear god
The apologetic tone in saying a subclass is only A+ and not s tier is so so RUclips.
Getting Rary's telepathic bond would be so great if they were ritual casters... I can't see even at high levels using a 5th level spell slot on that one unless it was a day of complete downtime. Same thing with phantom steed.
I believe and I could be wrong. That you can cast these once per day without using up your spell slot?
@@kylevanderwolf4446 Only the 1st level ones, which are not great spells other than shield. But the higher level spells you need spell slots.
Fun fact, both faerie fire and moonbeam were on the ua for this subclass 🙃
That Sorcerer came from the Moon!
The capstone is very underwhelming.
If you take far spell, you can make vampiric touch halfway good for free prof times per day. Since it now has a range of 30ft. Take ritual caster snd phantom steed can keep you pretty safe while doing it
So a player will need to think to get the best out of this subclass.
Vampiric touch isn't AWFUL, its just not great, I don't think 3rd level is the right place for it but D&D has to have its sacred cows. I have worked a sorlock that specialized in touch spells using the distant spell metamagic that was actually pretty fun (Celestial warlock/ Divine soul). They weren't "optimal" but they were fun and very useful for both utility and damage output. On vampiric touch basically unless you are wounded it is just plain worse than cause wounds.
Edit: From what I have read and heard watching this video some of the GO TO metamagics I would normally consider are really secondary to things like quicken or subtle.
Kelly's outfit in the promo is bonkers.
I love your channel and it's content. I am getting back into D&D and being a DM. I want to join your patreon but already and with Ginny Di. I try to join and it says I already have or am on a patreon. Any idea how to join yours as well? I really want to support your guys channel and your amazing work. You and Ginni Di help so many players and us Dms your work must grow and always roll 20 in your channels efforts.
Due to narrative reasons in my current campaign, my DM is letting me tag out my current character for a new one of equal level. Having decided on a Lunar Sorcerer, I realized that there is one combo that becomes a bit more cost efficient in the right phase of the moon. Quickened Spell the Mind Sliver cantrip, followed by a Heightened Spell Hold Person (/Hold Monster at higher levels). Assuming your target fails the Intelligence saving throw of Mind Sliver, they are now making the save against your Hold spell at disadvantage MINUS 1d4.
Yes, any Sorcerer can do this combo. You just get to save a couple of points to allocate elsewhere as a Lunar.
Doesn't work, if you cast a spell as a bonus action you can only do a cantrip as your action. You'd have to Quicken the Hold, but then it's not Heightened.
Lunar Empowerment Full Moon lets you grant advantage on Investigation and Perception checks. Can't you do the same thing with a torch and the Help action?
This subclass is a big step down from tasha's subclasses imo. Other subclasses actually gave some mechanically and thematically fun things. This one nearly all the skills are focused on making a discount on your sorcery points and add barely anything for a lunar themed sorcerer. Spell list is also very confusing.
Yikes, they really downgraded the spell list from the unearthed arcana version of this subclass.
I guess they were ok keeping everything else, but thought the more appropriately themed spell list was too strong.
Poor gibbous moon. Everyone forgets about you. And you would have given them moonbeam too.
Every moon base class forgets moonbeam
I'm grumpy on this because sorcerors drawing from the moons on Krynn goes against original campaign lore, but they did keep with the idea that blasting everything is bad
Half-moon and gibbous moon are missing as phases. I can imagine home-brewed rules for evocation and conjugation using each of these (1 per phase rather than two to balance things) or perhaps a world with twin moons and the syncing of phases to further mitigate the fireball spamming while allowing for some blasting fun.
That Full Moon investigation advantage seems... odd? I can produce the same by just using the help action?
Can someone explain to me how moonbeam is good? I feel like I’m missing something. 2d10 damage per target per turn for that small a space seems really weak to me.
I think the UA version had moonbeam etc, but the overall build was way too good. The build is okay now, but is played down.
I'm gonna make a party of adventurers who are all night based casters and call them the Night Lords... you know what they'll do