I swear to Aman'Thul, you can't be a strong female character in this game without having an incredibly tragic love life - Calia, Jaina, (high hopes for Kalec), Jaina's mom, Alleria, Sylvannas, Vareesa, Moira, Agent Keeran, that worgen woman in the Alliance camp thing in WoD, even that one undead Warlock in the council of the black harvest that had a thing for Ebonlocke.
"The Forsaken's ruthless leader is a formidable champion of her people. But with the Burning Legion's invasion, the stakes for the Dark Lady have never been higher. Should Sylvanas perish, her demise will be the beginning of her eternal damnation. All that stand between her and this doom are her Val'kyr, yet few of these spirit guardians remain. As her fate edges closer to the abyss, Sylvanas must decide how far she'll go to protect her people... and whether they're more precious to her than her soul." -Legion summary of Sylvanas.
Lightforged Undead, the new allied race, unlocked by the player guiding the recently deceased t'Paartos through his reawakening ritual, following his tragic failure in trying to solo Queen Azshara.
I don't think it will be an allied race, more likely it will be like the new Blood elves after the sunwell was repaired where they're just an eyecolor option in the character creation menu!
I think the subs would be MUCH higher if Blizzard found a way to get ALL of the story in front of ALL the players. The new cut scenes help a ton, but there's still so much you don't know if you don't place every class, both factions, etc..
No they help not, because they retcon a ton of things, or they make no sense at all. They are well made, no question, but the Story itself and how they write the Chars is just bad.
Calia Menethil, agent and puppet of the light. We saw it in the Light Dranei, they were but toy soldiers dressed in shiny tin armor. Calia will have more in common with Sylvanas if she leads the forsaken and frankly Sylvannas and the Light can benefit each other very well. She wants eternal undeath and they seemingly want control of the toys. It wont be long until the time when "the light [will strike] a bargain with the enemy of" Alliance and Horde.
We saw that at least in the alternate world that the Light Forged, and evening the Naaru, can go the same as the Scarlet Crusade. Eventually there will probably be so servants of the Light who break away and try to create a Light Forged Titan or something.
@@nevermore7285 That would be something - all the running about we did to stop Fel and Void (and maybe Death?) from getting their paws on our world soul, and Light was sitting back going 'thanks suckers, we'll just pop in while you're busy'.
@@madsword19 You've left aside Arcane magic enemies (the opposite to Fel: order vs disorder), we've already tasted. So basically we still have to find out the dark side of light (pun intended) and life magic.
Pretty sure Calia is there for an Alliance undead allied race. Pretty sure Lillian will take over if the Banshee leaves. Hope that means she gets a new modle too
I doubt she will take either side. She is more focused on the Forsaken themselves than Horde or Alliance. If the new Forsaken become a playable race, I bet the player can choose either faction like we could with Pandarans. But even then, I suspect the faction lines will become blurred in the next expansion. It sounds like Sylvannas will not be dead in the next expansion, but will be exiled from the Horde. After which, all the leaders with high aggressive tendencies in the Horde and Alliance (Varian, Garrosh, Sylvannas) are gone. Thus a sustainable peace will be possible.
Why though? When has Lillian Voss EVER taken an interest in politics? She's hardly even a part of Forsaken society, let alone a potential leader. And whatever happened to that council that was ruling the Undercity in Sylvannas's stead? Whatever happened to the conflict of having Forsaken who just wanted to die? This storyline is really getting the Blizzard treatment of being told in a very nice way but having plot wholes bigger than an elephant's twat who just had triplets (credit to Samantha Bee for that analogy)
@@jefftank3300 Calia is good friend to jaina and she resurected with the help of Anduin "alliance high king" so for sur she will stand with the alliance and for sure because the game have the PvP mechanic i dont see Blizzard make the 2 faction's allied so i see Calia become Alliance leader for "light undead" is more reasonble all the allied races are subrace for playable race and the only 4 races left with no subrace are (Gnomes/Goblins/Worgens/Undead) so i expect light undead "allied race" subrace for the alliance and like worgen race for the Horde
@TheNexusChronus Sylvanas killed around half the council for "desertion" during the event in Arathi Highlands. The rest are still around, but since there's no longer any Undercity to rule in Sylvanas' absence... Yeah, I wouldn't consider that a plot whole.
@ComocosonoEWL Dude, you don't deserve to be part of the Horde with that way of thinking. The Horde is held together by honor, loyalty and mutual respect. Sylvanas has tarnished all of those. Honestly I vouched for Sylvanas, I was on her side, even after burning Teldrassil, because this is war. But to not give a damn about your allies just goes too far. She spat in Baine's face and tried to kill Saurfang several times. She's turning into Garrosh more and more. Soon enough she will say that the Forsaken are the top race and then we'll just have a better Garrosh. This is why I would rather follow Saurfang and Thrall, rather than serve a self-serving queen.
@@maltorian1258 saurfang should have been executed after letting malfurion go, that simple. the guy doesnt follow orders that go against his honor which end up getting people killed, fuck your honor, living is more important. baine pretty much betrayed everyone in the horde when he decided his honor was more important then winning the war by giving jaina her brother back, but hey i can even see that being forgiven if he had just said we wont win this way but we will still win, but he didnt do that he conspired with the enemy and a traitor so yeah he can go straight to hell cause his father would have fully bitch slapped him for his stupidity. Thrall is just an idiot, great leader yes, but an idiot. ill leave garrosh in charge because his dad was a "great" leader, i must kill him myself, i must go an recommune with the elements, or my personal favorite ive know sylvanas for years she a master tactician and good at assassination so of course she would send two rouges to kill me instead of a squad of dark rangers because that makes sense.........
2:31 THAT IS THE CREEPIEST THING I HAVE SEEN IN NOBBEL'S VIDEOS! Seriously is that how birth happens in WoW? A fully clothed and smiling 8yo coming gout of a restrained mother inside a decrepit inn surrounded by hostile mobs?
Light-risen or Lightforged undead would be a neat extra option for the Forsaken. People seem against the idea of Calia being the leader, and I kinda get it, especially as she doesn't even look like a typical Forsaken, but given some new Light-emanating undead roaming the halls of the Undercity (eventually we'll go back there, I'm sure), with less bones showing (we are getting those customization options soon in the next expansion and I wonder if this is why), it could feel like a more gradual transition and possibly even work in the long run. Sylvanas has got to go, though. The writers have set her up as too much of an antagonistic figure to ever be a leader in the Horde again. I'm tired of the Horde's instability. They're no longer a ragtag group of factions working together to survive, as they originally were in the start. They are a fully-fledged alliance of nations. They need to get their shit together so we can have more interesting stories that don't involve someone, somewhere, fucking up royally or being a total asshole to their own allies. It's. Boring. And way too over-played.
Having Calia as the new Forsaken leader would be as much terrible as it would be cringe-worthy. Given how Calia was raised, the forces that are involved here, least thing we need is someone raised as some kind of perversion by the Light and other powers. Calia, or at least her body, now serves as a slave, as a vessel for foreign forces, such as Light..the Naaru, who seek to bend all living creatures them to enforce their 1-sided views. In short, Calia is bad news, really really bad news, not because she may become a leader, but because of what she has become herself, this Light-born ''undead'', a perversion, an abomination....and a puppet to forces we should never meddle with.
Yep. She's literally just a puppet for the Light. Not to mention she did shit all for the Forsaken and simply used her royal status to claim authority while Sylvanas actually fought for and led the Forsaken through their darkest hours - and made them what they are now rather than the Lich King's minions.
@@korsekil It's true, but regardless, Calia is one fucked up....whatever she even is now. The Light cannot raise ''undead'' so clearly there was some other force involved in her ressurection that we aren't aware of...yet. Suffice to say, Calia and what she embodies, is a danger to everyone, not just Horde.
From the perpective of a non undead player. Literally any thing is better than miss "morally Grey" The story of the forsaken ended in wrath as far as im concerned. They got their revenge and should have passed on. The dead should remain just that.
@@arcangleGabriel It's likely that they have found a new purpose to exist. The thing about the ''afterlife'' is that it's all darkness and torment for all eternity, especially in the case for undead, who's souls have been twisted by shadow. That is why Sylvanas seeks to find ways to live on, to prevent forsaken from dying out, because she has seen the afterlife, which is so horrific that it scares the shit out of even the baddest of the bad guys. Afterlife isn't peace in paradise, it's all darkness and suffering, dark entities tearing at your soul until nothing is left. So yes, better to stay undead, than to endure death. The only exception to that rule are devoted followers of the Light, or Nature, as seen by paladins and emerald dream, the rest, however, suffer in the Warcraft's version of hell.
I love how this Calia Menethil woman was basically a literal who nobody background character in the lore UNTIL THEY NEEDED a quick last minute replacement for the evil queen they're about to kill off. "OH HEY GUYS IT'S CALIA MENETHIL!! Remember her?! She's your new hamfisted racial leader now! Pls love her."
It makes sense that the Orcs and undead have such shortcomings. The orcs are like children who have just figured out they can walk, they are confused whether to follow the old ways or to forge a new path towards something else. Thrall is the representation of the new path, he chose to try to coexist and was ridiculed for it so he chose to give up his war-chief status. Garrosh was the epitome of the confusion as it ended with his madness and subsequent death. We all knew from the beginning that the undead only served themselves. Sylvanas only joined the horde as a way to build power for when she got her revenge on arthas. Where they went wrong was killing off vol’jin like they did. But after that, all the story so far was pretty predictable. Throughout wow the developers have been hinting that sylvanas needed to die as far back as the wrathgate. They just implemented it poorly. It doesn’t matter how anyone feels about it, the writers planned all this long ago, it’s just the implementation that is the problem. I feel like we are gearing towards the end now, where the horde and alliance come together as one big happy family.
@@hurotiz The only thing they have planned all along is to have constant nonsensical conflict just because they need to have the 'warcraft ' bit in the title . It doesn't excuse poor set up writing and just throwing character development out the window for a majority of the characters . Thrall was always interested in making peace with the alliance and coexisting this is why it made 0 sense for him to promote Garrosh as the new Warchief , but alas Blizzard needed to force the conflict so they had to make Thrall become dumb dumb all of the sudden and make the worst possible choice in passing the Warchief mantle . At this rate we will soon run out of leaders that they can ruin .
Dreamscape I agree that wow has suffered from poor writing and I would have liked it better if sylvanas had gone out like the badass she is in wotlk against arthas but unfortunately they gave us this mess to deal with and I honestly think they wrote themselves into a corner lol. The current story writers are baffled how to get their story straight
honestly? it’s an interesting concept. I really do like her, between her personality and aesthetic, and if they do continue this “Sylvanas is the villain” plot then she’ll be a decent race leader for the forsaken, but I think for now, Sylvanas has earned her place as the Dark Lady, and I think it should stay that way. But Calia is still neat, and has a very interesting place in the story
deathdoom8 The other Menethil’s? Are there any besides Calia and the father who Arthas stabbed? I haven’t been keeping up with all of the lore, only pieces of it.
The dude that sells cockroaches in UC has done more to help Lordaeron/Forsaken than Calia Menethil. The list of people that would make better Forsaken leaders includes Scarlet Crusaders because while they might hate us, at least they did something about it instead of fleeing to Southshore to listen to My Chemical Romance.
@@mattieonutube273 so players kill millions ingame, and other leaders have killed thousands and thousands aswell. We dont need to loose another horde leader.
I hope the Alliance doesn’t get Undead. Especially not Lightforged undead. They already get the Space Goats, Broken would have been better, and the Horde need a light allied race. But, thats jmo.
I say that if Sylvanas is out of the picture the Forsaken move into a council of leadership format. The respective leaders of the Deathguard, the Apothecary, Dark Rangers if they are still around, and citizenry should rule in a manner that befits the Forsaken spirit. Lillian is out for herself and is unaligned with the Forsaken while Callia is essentially a part of the Alliance, at least as far as sensibilities are concerned. We have been left gutted with no power-base and no means of procreation. The Forsaken WILL die off unless our scattered forces are consolidated and turned in earnest towards conquest. Gilneas is honestly looking pretty good right now. I'm sure there are ways to burn off some blight.... Power to the Forsaken.
I’m so excited to see what might happen next with her! I saw her recent visual change for the game and my goodness, she’s so different! But in a good way imo.
I pity Sylvanas. So much. I think I always knew she would be lost, just as the once human man who broke her was. But still, it is so tragic to me what she has done. Has become. I still wish she could be saved, because even with all the terrible things she has done she also sacrificed more than most for her people. Both in life, and again in undeath. If Kerrigan could redeem herself after the deaths of billions, regardless of whether she was influenced by Amon or not, then maybe... Just maybe...
She was forgivable.doing things in a war already started.she attacked gilneas and Southshore for garrosh.She had a good explanation but now................
@@minolamycat91 Explain. Because I see her as no different than back in Warcraft 3. How is what she's doing now any worse than idk...torturing and experimenting on horde members, conspiring with a demon, or trying to enslave all Val'kyr? It's all been to benefit herself.
@@justin1594 She's all hysterical and in love with that shit character Nathanos. I agree she always had the edgy bitch aura, but she was never like this.
@@hanakogane2234 I think that has more to do with their ambivalence as beings of death. I think that those who fully reembrace the Light don't have to deal with those issues.
i'm very disappointed in how the writers had dealt with sylvanas and i feel sad that another character with so much build up just to go down in flames do to lack of finding a villain for the next expansion
Sylvanas is an amazing character, but her character arc has never changed. She has lost her way, after regaining freewill and after Arthas’ death, but every time she followed the same path of self preservation and using others to get what she wants. Having an ally you know will stab you in the back just makes it all the more exciting. Especially for those of us who never trusted her. But I’m happy to say that the Forsaken as a whole have grown on me, and I’m proud to call them members of the Horde, in spite of Sylvanas. And don’t worry, we know you Banshee Queen loyalists are still out there. Keep plotting with you bad selves!
@@SAOin-np1np except her character was probably changed in the "Edge of night" short story, because there was not much to do with her character after the death of the Lich King
It really disappoints me how they've handled Sylvanas; her story could have been so much more. Personally, I'd stand with the Dark Lady because she's always been my favorite Horde leader and she's had the hardest backstory out of any WoW character in my opinion. Every hand she's been given in every situation has been absolute crap; doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. The impossible decisions she's had to make are a part of why I love her. I'll go with Pyro's hope that she's doing all of this for a reason and it's just another impossible decision that she's had to make that people with weaker wills wouldn't understand.
Nope peace ain't impossible.staying in the undercity like a crazed shut in isn't impossible.not killing the night elves isn't impossible.she had choices and surely in bfa she has chosen the more stupid and insensible ones.
@@badrinath5306 I'd say that's jumping the gun. We don't know the reason behind it. TBH, though, I'd probably defect from the Horde to join the Dark Lady because I connect to her the most. Ever since I joined in Wrath, she's always been my favorite; I'll still trust that she had to make a tough call that no one else could make. Every horde leader has done some messed up stuff too; there's blood on everyone's hands.
@@MrVlad12340 Like what people did to them from the start? It's a kill or be killed universe for the most part. There's always a genocide happening. You think the humans haven't done their fair share of genocide?
Scott Edwards no they havent lol. High elfs who are now blood elfs did. To the trolls. And undead attacked first... literally just play Warcraft 3 campaign , its all there. She killed Garithos despite him honoring their deal.
if blizzard really goes trough this then that's it.. just the final straw to break the horse's back, the final insult to prove that they just dont give a shit about their characters and what they ment
The problem with Calia as Forsaken leader is that they can then NEVER have a war in Warcraft again, because Calia would never turn against Anduin I think it's more likely that Calia becomes the leader of a 'Hollowed Forsaken' allied Race for the Alliance then the question is, who would lead the Forsaken? If Sylvanas goes, I can't imagine Nathanos staying, so who would lead them then? are there any Undead that could rise to that position, the only ones that come to my mind are Gunther Arcanus and Meryl Felstorm, and both of them aren't really that prominent within the Forsaken
my biggest problem with slyvy and this is coming from an alliance player usually...is that the horde was once again roped into the evil faction, again, for the 10th billion time. (I know its an exaggeration) but seriously why did vol'jin have to die just to have a faction war that Blizzard has been doubling back on because they know the controversy was too hot. We all knew once slyvy burnt teladrassil due to basic provocation she was going to need to be replaced because that's the same move Garosh did, oh wait! Garosh actually did nuked theramore for a tactical advantage even if it was scummy and so it became "Morally gray!!!" That's why i quit wow, i was so pumped for a first horde v alliance expansion since Legion was quite the good pve expansion. Now...unless they make something that both makes sense and feels wholesome in regard to the A vs. H i won't care.
And even despite that, she is the only indispensable character in the whole game's story now, since every other character is either dead or their stories tie to her somehow.
So looking back from 2021,good reason? Regardless, you're right. It would be nice to have to clear out some evil Alliance leader for once (dominated Anduin excluded). And I'm saying that as an Alliance person.
But i want faction wars to never end, this is world of warcraft we need crazy leaders, i just hope the alliance would be the ones with a crazy leader for once
Personally, I'm actually getting a little tired of the constant faction war in WoW - I think the game could be fun even as a PvE, and it would mean that Blizzard wouldn't have to keep making up reasons for the Alliance and Horde to keep fighting.
Agreed... But then maybe the dark iron Dwarves will decide to take over ironforge while nobody is keeping check on them and we have to flush them out afterwards
@@jd_27 Exactly - just because the faction war is over doesn't mean that there still couldn't be internal or external conflict. Azeroth is a tumultuous world, and there would doubtless be plenty of adventures for our characters to go on even if the Alliance and Horde were allied/at peace.
@@davidwilson2916 something else that could happen that gets me excited is the thought of all the animals/smaller races (Merlocs, Kobolds, etc) deciding that the Horde and Alliance are destroying the planet and they band together to take action against us somehow...
@@jd_27 Certainly a possibility. I think that Blizzard's focus on the Alliance-Horde conflict has actually been preventing them from giving time to the smaller races and developing some of the side stories/character arcs we have, and it'd be great to see Blizzard branch out from rehashing the same plotlines over and over again.
To be fair, neither do the Blood Elves. Many of the Horde races are basically those who would be hunted by the Alliance and are joining together as a show of force.
I'm glad the horde is moving in this direction, Bane bloodhoof, SaurFang, Bane, the return of Thrall, I like all these genuinely good and honorbound Horde characters! Now with Calia we get more of that, I'm really hoping to see more villains arise from the Alliance, a lot of players still see the Horde as "the evil faction" so I'd love to see it turned on its head for future expansions! :D
It would make more sense for the forsaken to ally with Arthas himself than with Calia, at least he thought he was doing something good, Calia merely ran like a coward and ignored her people for years.
Personally, I think the faction war needs to end, or at the very least, a ceasefire that lasts longer than one expansion. Every expansion, there’s something that causes the Alliance and the Horde to forget how they joined forces and go back to fighting each other. I really didn’t like how they did it after Legion, since that was an expansion where it focused on the bigger threat and us uniting against that threat, then suddenly we turn back on each other as we fight over Azeroth’s blood (instead of focusing on Azeroth herself). I’m with Khadgar, we have bigger priorities lol.
I agree. I really wish that Blizzard could see how the need to have this constant faction war going on is negatively impacting their writing and lore - look no further than the butchering of Sylvanas and the whole Garrosh debacle for proof.
@@Marie895 First off, if Sylvanas truly loved her Forsaken 'like a mother', why would she kill off a whole bunch of them for daring to question her and yearning for peace? Last I checked, there weren't many mothers who killed their own children. Second, the Horde is only 'at war' with Sylvanas because she literally keeps going around and executing them whenever they say something that makes her angry. If she wanted to belong in the Horde, maybe she should stop killing off its membership (Zelling, Thrall, Baine etc.). And, finally, it's never too late for a franchise to evolve and change. Many MMORPGs of late have worked very well in a PvE format (ESO, GuildWars etc.), and WoW could very well follow suit - you'll never know unless you try. That being said, if you want some very well written and researched arguments regarding Sylvanas' actions in BfA, check out 'Yaas Queen' by Lily Orchard. Ultimately, I really like the character of Sylvanas - I just think that Blizzard put her on the chopping block because of the PvP nature of WoW.
we will fight Sylvanas then she will be put on trial then a bronze dragon will help her go back in time to take the Lich King Spot instead of Arthas and we return to Warcraft 3. Sound dumb? well its Blizzard its how there story logic seems to go anyways.
The Classic is much more better and make sense than this new storyline it goes Garroshing all over again why can't the Alliance have a bad King because they are THE Alliance. The Horde always been the bad one. The one that always start a pointless war. The one that get Bad leader. They used to have a good leader once but people Thrall and Orgrim but in the record non of the Alliance leaders are the bad person ever in the first war they have Aduin Lothar in the second war they have King Therenas in the Third war they had Bovar Fordragon who was really good person and the next one are one of my favourite character King Varian Wryn but non of this character start the war with the Horde instead for unknown reasons the always start the war. I wonder why.
So if your playing a forsaken. You would rather fight for the elven bitch that abandoned your people in life, leaving all within lordaeron to their death. Than the rightful heir to your homeland in life. You have forgotten who you once where and you no longer deserve existence.
If their place in life matters nothing and what they were matters nothing. Then they have no rights to what they once were, owned, or lands to whom they belonged. If their lives as citizens of lordaeron matters nothing. Then more so than any other race they are monsters and should have been wiped out after their revenge against their traitor prince was done. If their lives before didnt matter then their original motivations should not exist.
Wonder if the shot at 22:50 hints Sylvanas will peace out and leave Nathanos in charge of the Forsaken. It probably doesn't, but I'll take Nathanos over Calia any day of the week.
The thing is: If you like him or not, Nathanos is known to the players. I also thought that he might be the one leading the forsaken in the future, if Sylvanas doesn't have that position (for whatever reason) anymore. I mean sure, some people dislike him, but at least they KNOW him. And it wouldn't be the first forsaken leader that isn't beloved by all the players. Calia while not being uninteresting isn't known very much. Some of the Alliance NPCs know her (like Jaina), the forsaken NPCs could know her (at least, most of them?), and the priest players could remember her. But for a big part of the playerbase, she could be a complete unknown. If you think how players reacted to Garrosh who also wasn't very known she could have a hard time after bein introduced. Sure, the character could be well written - that would help for sure - but to have a leader for a faction alot of players don't know is kind of hard - especially if you have to follow up Sylvanas. On a sidenote: For what Blizzard is doing with the horde right now she would be a bit to soft I'd think. Sure, maybe the writing will change for the next addon, but as it is right now, I think she could be "to nice" to be the forsaken faction leader...
If she *has* to be a racial leader, ideally she just leads a group of newly raised undead on the Alliance. Just keep her as far away from the Forsaken as possible. Sylvanas is the face of the Forsaken, trying to replace her with a character who hasn't experienced any of their struggles would be a horrid story move, and destroy everything that makes the Forsaken a unique race.
Plot armour is literally the least compelling story element you can even possibly conceive of. Blizz taking their SWEET time to kill off someone so CLEARLY destined to die for a final time is so incredibly telling that the Horde's fanbase want to keep Slyvanas because everyone drools over their undead goth waifu. Like come the fuck on she committed GENOCIDE FOR FUCKS SAKE HAVE BETTER TASTE IN WOMEN JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.
Undead joining the ranks of the Alliance would be one of the worst moves ever. I've said this before, the only race that should never switch sides is the undead race. Historically the Alliance hated the undead more then any other race, by a mile. Even if they are making Anduin friendly towards them, the rest of the alliance should continue to dislike them, especially Worgens ,Night elves and Humans. People forget how they already tried rejoining the alliance and a good portion of them got killed, the rest escaped.
I don't care at this point. I was so excited after Legion but now.... I just don't care for the story or the game. My guild is into raiding and that has kept me around but it's just so boring with all the grind that it takes to keep a good mythic raiding toon. The story being so fucked in BFA just made it worse. I'm actually excited for Classic after months of not caring for it. Weird. Thanks for the video Nobbel
BFA is crap, but Ill give 6 months to Classic before people realise how much time took leveling and getting gear, "time" these days many people doesnt have, aaah and dont forget how broken were some classes and how glitchy the game was
The story is completely fine, it is just too slow because Blizzard started do complicated story and people are losing their patience and forgot many important things from last expansions. Then you have people who ignore in-game text and just consume cool cinematics and then blame Blizzard for shit story.
Sarazan the story is completely garbage... Don't try to "be cool" or whatever it is you're trying to do by even attempting to defend BFAs shit show of a garbage story.
@@sarazan2586 It has nothing to do with it being ''slow''. The plot is dogshit. It's lowkey insulting to even pretend this story is something super amazing when we've already fucken had this a few years ago. Now they're just throwing in some shitty Game of Thrones plot with this Calia bitch that came out of nowhere to try and justify it.
@@Barragur There's nothing to know about her, because she's a nobody with a last name. She has literally never done anything in the lore and specially for the Forsaken in 15+ years. Might aswell make the Roach Vendor the leader, he's more recognizable.
@@arthasmenethil4672 Bran the Broken had his presence and role known from the beginning of the series and everything that happened was somewhat expected, except for the end which is a total fuck up. Calia has just been introduced in Legion for 5% of the playerbase to see, has not been seen by a majority of players in game up to this day and had not had any decent character development to justify taking a mantle as a leader of anything, let alone the forsaken...
the bigger issue of having calia lead the forsaken isn't people being unfamiliar with her its that her character doesn't fit. She's morally good, the people who play forsaken don't pick the race to be lead by the Horde's version of Anduin, they enjoy being at best chaotic neutral. Would be a HUGE mistake to have a morally good character lead the forsaken. Would legit ruin any race identity with the forsaken for a lot of players.
You know you have the option to follow Sylvanas right? We'll probably have a third faction of undead leaded by Sylvanas and a segment of the Horde Forsaken leaded by Calia. So you can just choose the kind of Forsaken you want to be: a light one or a dark one. And Tyrande will probably left the Alliance as well and we will have another faction. So I'm okay with Calia being leader of the Horde Forsaken.
i could honestly see derreck leading the forsaken and baine running the horde at this point with calia manning the light forged undead which will probably end the war on undead and probably the faction war as a whole.
Funny how minions never rebel huh. Every last forsaken is nothing but Another brick in her wall against death shes a cowardly revenge obsessed bitch. Who got her revenge and by that notion the conclusion of her reason for existence in the second expansion. You forsaken Are naught but misguided fools and shields for you waunted dark Lady. The scarlet crusaders have it right destroy all undead.
The "honor" is the horde's Social Contract. It's most primitive rule. Without it, there are no laws, no leaders, no reason, no purpose and nothing that binds the horde together. Especially the Orcs and the Forsaken. The Goblins have Union, the Elfs standard high-rule, the Tauran a chieftancy and the Trolls tribemanship. But what do the orcs have? Warchief. The forsaken? A banshee Queen. None is permanent or estabilished outside of the founder, no rulling court, no rulling tradition. Just nomads or people banned together temporary. Would the founder die without a named heir, everything would fall in disarray.
15:57, and THAT single statement right there is my biggest issue with BfA and this newest cinematic. Sylvanas has ALWAYS cared about the Forsaken, and now they write her as if she doesn't give 2 shits about anything but her own survival and death. Its trash writing.
She has never “cared” about anyone but herself and her ambition. She “cared” about them after Wrath, but not for their sakes. She needed them to keep her bargain with the Val’kyr and stay alive. That’s been her only driving force since Cataclysm. Now she’s Death Magiced up and you can no longer deny the truth.
Here I thought BFA's shit story line couldn't get any worse, and yet again I am proven horribly wrong. "So who the fuck is Calia?" I hear everyone asking...oh she's just yet another ham fisted Alliance no one knows or gives a shit about who's now going to be the next leader for the Horde! Seriously round up every fucking writer you have, put them in a contained cell, and drop them into the deepest part of the fucking ocean...let them sink along with every hope the fans had of this being even a semi decent expansion! Seriously, what heroes do the horde have left to look up to now, let alone heroes who fans actually care about!? Thrall who fucked off 5+ expansions ago, abandoned the horde, and no one cares about anymore because he was made into a bitch!? Saurfang who was once one of the greatest badasses is now actively aiding the alliance while betraying the horde because Garrosh 2.0? Baine who was hamfisted in and has played marginal roles at best until now, because they wanted to kill Cairne off screen rather then give him a proper story or cinematic send off? Vul' Jin, naaaa he's a fucking ghost now, couldn't be bothered to give him a decent send off either let alone let him rule for a single expansion cus the writers aren't smart enough to figure out how to write a complex character with any depth let alone a story that makes sense...now he hangs out with the guy from Death Note while pretending to be important. Rok'han? HAH he wasn't even a player story wise until this expansion, ya you saw him in WOD, did a quest or two, but unless you read the books he's another single expansion hero that the fan base hasn't yet bonded to. Let's see...who else we got...Lor'themar? Mr. Eyepatch himself who despite being around since BC has yet to do anything of great importance other then MOP, Lady Liadrin is a better leader then him and she's a supposedly neutral Paladin. Since BC, Acti/Blizzard has been killing off every Horde hero they have without introducing or building new characters the fans can enjoy and come to love (they had a chance of reintroduction with WOD but decided "green man bad" instead), and now that they have no one left they are reduced to shit convenience writing and hamfisted narrative to try and implement new ones the fans knew nothing about until this current expansion. The crack elves are the only ones who have a good leader who was written well, but making her Warchief makes 0 sense since it's been only 1 full expansion since her introduction and we don't know enough about her to say "This is a good decision, I can get behind this!". Sorry about the rant but I'm furious because I have loved the Warcraft franchise since Orcs and Humans and sunk countless hours into every one of them. I've boughten every game, every expansion and I'm still seeing what I love being shit on by a bunch of hacks and destroyed callously in front of my eyes by greedy execs. I want the franchise to do well, I want Blizzard to do well...with all the money they've made I wish they'd hire competent staff who valued a good game and story over lootboxes and pay to win features/cosmetics, becoming the next EA or Bethesda.
@@MrVlad12340 have you seen the Cinematic of what Naaru tries to do to Illidan? That is attempted rape. So FUCK the light!!. I like Alliance as much as Horde but the light is a twisted, corrupt, selfish conglomerate. And for the record, Horde doesn't mean evil. And Alliance doesn't mean good guys. Both groups fight for a cause. The alliance has just as dirty of a past as the horde in their lore. The horde are just ulgy or rotting or monsteous in appearance. That doesn't make them bad guys or evil. They had a lot of bad luck such as being exiled and left for dead from a pious hierarchy. So they banded together and rebuked the oppressive governing bodies and made their own societies and cities. It started with humans and orcs. The orcs were peaceful but they were turned against the humans after Sargeras tainted their minds.
Ok so I see silvanis as being controlled by old gods and somewhere down the line we capture her and take her to neither light temple where she is turned by being clensed by the light. She is then cured from old god corruption and now understands and gives us vital info on what’s coming next. She steps down as warcheif and rides away in the sunset with Nathanos. There BFA ending cinematic!!! That’s the craziest thing I can think of 😂😂😂
There’s no way she will lead the horde forsaken, though it’s likely she will become the new queen of lorderan and lead forsaken members who have defected to the alliance
Ethan Hal also extremely unlikely. The vast majority of the Alliance would never accept any Forsaken. Any attempt to try to integrate them would end in violence. Murders and disappearances of undead I'd wager.
Okay, your response blending both the Warcraft and Warhammer universe- priceless. That being said, while I know that very few would accept Calia as the new Forsaken faction leader, she could (in fact) become the leader for a whole new faction in-game. Just saying. Who knows? It may not even be part of the classic "Alliance vs. Horde" set-up.
Kargath Bladefist (WoD) idk, I think that would be a good thing, in the past the alliance has never really had much infighting. A new mostly unaccepted race could bring some new interesting conflict. Just imagine it, anduin is the type of person who would try new things and invite these new forsaken to the alliance, and at first the other leaders seem okay with it, but eventually they grow sick of the forsaken’s unusual way of life and start having huge prejudice against them. To me that seems like a great way to add some internal conflict to the alliance while also seeing some cool character growth from main characters who struggle to accept undead (like our very good boi genn greymane). Just my opinion though
Todd Maccarone heh....thanks. Oh and I just got a shit idea... Tyrande is like Abaddon. A 10k year old failure blessed by gods. Melting Tyrande mosaic screams in distain : FUCK YOOOOOU!
Forsaken already been rejected by alliance. Because Alliance accept them as monstrosity. So will they accept today then? Forsaken named because their people don't accept them. If they join Alliance they named as Forsaken forsaken? Alliance hate undead before what changed today ? Blizzard please don't ruin all lore like that.
The family Menethil had some interesting stuff going on in Warcraft History... this would be interesting if it comes true... oh my On the otherh and, I don't think that many players actually know about her... so it would be interesting how they would set her up
I think we need to think bigger to understand the development of the undead leadership and predict its future. [short version (explanation got rather long)] Sylvanas is currently a pawn of the Voidlords and will discover it (with the help of some heroes). Meanwhile the light lady will gather her own forsaken under her banner. Both forsaken faction will strike against the voidlords and after that the real bitchfight will start. [long version] (past) In the past Vol'jin got some "vision" that sylvanas should be leader, which was twisted as we know now. At that time the legion was rolling in. Their main goal was to destroy Azeroth, because its a mighty sleeping giant. With Vol'jin and the lionking dead, the leadership of the two big factions opposing the Legion was crippled. As the leadership of the Alliance was clear, the horde would have been in chaos. So a "mighty power" intervened and selected Sylvanas. With combined forces the burning legion was pushed back and heavy crippled. So we can assume that the "mighty power" was not interested in Azeroth death. Considering the factions mighty enough with such intentions, we have the Titans who fought with us in the final battle and don´t act so hidden. This leads to the second faction. Sending the old gods they tried to twisted with the sleeping titan and are the reason for Sargeras to go on his crusade: The Void and its Voidlords! (present) This alone might be a bit over the top, so lets continue with the events: Sargeras punched his sword into Azeroth and weakened the Titan. With Horde and Alliance on friendly terms this would be solved with ease and Azeroth would have grown stronger day by day until awakening into a mighty Titan. The Old Gods would be to weak to influence her anymore. But Sylvanas heard of the mighty azerit and decided to use it to put an end to the everlasting thread of the alliance. So she waged war! This not only weakens both in the long term, but also distracts them long enough from helping Azeroth recovering and even wounding her. This makes Azeroth vulnerable. The faction taking profit out of it would be: The Voidlords with their Old Gods! (future) Like said in the Caverns of time: The war between orcs and humans made both strong enough to face the legion in wc3. So the war part is not always "bad" considering the enemies. Considering that the "waves of war" are cooling down right now and Sylvanas grip growing weaker, the damage done to Azeroth will be shown soon. The Void might have starten to corrupt Azeroth and we might fight against it... but back to the undead. Considering that Sylvanas is not as dump as some previous warchief, she might reveal that she was just a pawn of the Voidlord. This will piss her off and her interests will shift as well. She might need time to rethink everything and give up on her warchief title, giving it back to Thrall since she respects him. During that time of doubt our "Light Lady" will make her move. She will gather surpressed Forsaken under her and create a new faction of undead under her banner. Meanwhile the Dark Lady will grow in hatred for the Voidlords. She will not like the Light Lady, but as a believer of the light and pawn of the N'aaru, both will unite against the pressing Void and deal with their internal bitchfight later. ("blizzard"s intentions) Currently the Forsaken are under the iron grip of the Dark Lady. In Wotlk the Dreadlord faction was killed. With no opposing faction she grows more and more Tyrant-like. Bringing in an opposing faction will make the undead more interesting and likeable again (for the majority freedom-liking people out there). It would also be the third major change of Sylvanas character and deepen her lore further. Bringing her into dislike(fanbase excluded) and making her likeable again (increasing her fanbase). The Light Lady is a good choice for an opposing char. She brings a complete different aspect to the forsaken. Always the damned one broken free from the lich king, they were despised by everyone, but as other people already said: She shows that there is another way to rise forsaken. This Light and Dark element in one faction would change the view upon the forsaken a lot. Cooperating with the Alliance will no longer be a "no go" since the church of light can't curse them anymore as undead abominations. (disclaimer) Thank you for reading until here. Just had one of those "everything makes sense" moments, where your mind connects every puzzle pieces together. Also if you read it in the future and i was right: No i cant read the future, only predict it out of the present. I am no saint, i am a scientist. (ok enough bad jokes)
Keeping new expansions focused on the common enemy would work well. They Have classic now for the world pvp and faction war. Seperate them to avoid having their own game compete for the same playerbase too much.
@ComocosonoEWL I think you missed his actual premise bro. The classic players are going to disproportionately be the "my faction uber alles" folk, and if they do keep moving forward with Retail, appealing to the "kiss and make up" people isn't such a bad strategy.
ComocosonoEWL faction war makes no sense because it cant end, game will be forced to remain with TWO factions forever. It is like running a race where nobody can ever reach the finishing line. Plus Horde is so pumped up on that laughable, immature hatred that it is cringeworthy by now. Yes Blizz know how to stroke your “fire” , too bad they robbed Alliance of any desire for war by not letting us retaliate.
@ComocosonoEWL IF they continue with any sort of faction war they NEED to adress the lore problem. Where are all the soldiers coming from? Half way through BFA there was a cinematic where Anduin is told they have to send farmers next and there are only enough soldiers for 1 push at orgrimmar in the last cinematic. So unless they are really going down the route where everyone dies and become undead in order to fight the void then they need to have a long period of peace so that world npc population can rise again. This could be solved with the SW:TOR choice of removing the players from the story and do a time jump. Like we help Khadgar or the bronze dragonflight with a problem, get thrown 60+ years into the future where population is higher and tensions between the factions resoult in a new war. Hell even start it with a warcraft 4 and WoW 2.0 after it where we the heroes have to mop up the shitstorm.
my hope and it has been this way for a while, ever since start is that the faction war would in some ways come to an end. with Jaina nearly coming full circle back, with Thrall being back in some ways, with Bane and Anduin moving down the same paths again they were before Tides of War. I could honestly see them ending the faction war. their would still be factions and still disagreements but war as a war would be over. That you could just have such a giant threat out in world that nothing else matters but that threat and that threat isn't going to be stopped in just one or two expansions that the faction wars at least for a while will end. and everyone can go and visit all the cities and be with whom ever they want to be. it is time to for that to change a great deal
I wouldn't mind Lillian becoming leader of Forsaken. But I don't see it coming, Lillian was most of the time lone wolf, only teaming up with others in legion. In BfA it is sayed that her presence in war campaign is "requested"(whatever that means). She never showed any signs of her being leader or wishing it in first place. Also she was neutral to both factions till BfA. I think, they will leave her to be what she is, rather than changing her to leader all the sudden.
Bolvar Fordragon takes her place. You mention how the forsaken were formed, but if Bolvar were to face Sylvanas as he was now with the scourge at his beck and call and he wound up destroying 80% of the scourge's number against Sylvanas and her patron, it would free up Bolvar from having to exert control over the scourge, allowing him to actually step from the Frozen Throne. That said , in light of certain.... quests, i wonder what HIS endgame is with raising a certain dragon into undeath...i wonder if it was in fact his way of searching into making new forsaken, finding out if those with stronger wills could in fact resist his voice. Personally i hope the ending to this expansion is a battle of the monsters, The OG versus the Banshee Queen. One who has accepted his fall into darkness to save the lives of the country he loved. While the other fears that fall, to be obscure and to die, which is inevitable. "In the end, Death claims us all, Sylvanas, weren't those the words you told your previous Warchief? So naive...to think you could possibly escape yours." -Bolvar telepathically speaking to Sylvanas as she is overrun by the scourge. Though i could just see the faces of the Alliance and Horde as they're essentially watching the scene from the Return of The King where the ghost armies just ravage everything that is not an ally. "glad they're on our side...wait WHAT!?"
Forsaken is my favorite of the horde races, but after I read the book Before the Storm I will say that if I were actually into role playing I would have decided to leave the horde as Forsaken if I could. For a leader to kill her own people after making a big deal that they couldn't reproduce is just madness in my opinion. I think Calia would be better for the Forsaken, maybe the light could change them like they did for her and they wouldn't need the Val'kury anymore. That is just my opinion of the matter.
@ComocosonoEWL I think you dont get the point at all. The forsaken should have died when their purpose was fulfilled back at the end of wrath. The forsaken were the citizens of lordaeron, raised as mindless undead and then broken free from the lich kings control, on a quest to avenge their people's fall at the hands of the traitor prince Arthas. They did This. they fulfilled their purpose. Making more is just like Garrosh said: "Have you any idea what This means? What difference is there between you and the lich King now?" The answer? Nothing. She and her kind are now everything they fought. They are monsters deserving of the peace of death that they were once denied. Maybe in the end the light will show them mercy.
There is speculation that blizzard might be getting rid of factions. So that can answer your question of what getting rid of Sylvannas will result in. Check out BellularGaming’s take on that. I personally think it’s a good idea because they already have a terribly hard time thinking of story reasons why there even is a faction split in the first place. The factions don’t even have much differences anymore, most of the leaders are friends and the new races have deep cross faction history.
Watch and after this, we see the army of the light invade azeroth and we gotta fight them back, or we fight the void, and Yrel finds us (alliance) and attempts to help us (in questionable ways)
![The Story of Genn Greymane - Part 1 of 3 [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/h_cLcot5kZk/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Story of Genn Greymane - Part 1 of 3 [Lore]](/img/tr.png)
![The Story of Wrath of the Lich King Classic [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n1qudxuGmRc/mqdefault.jpg)
2:33 Now that's some quality shit right there
IKR it had me in tears 😂
Pure perfection
I hurt myself laughing when that popped up on my screen....fabulous quality as always Nobbel!
I died there :D
Such a beautiful art i may have shed a tear or two
People complain how weird her face is,well thats the kinda face you make when you realize your brother is the Lich king and your Husband is Deathwing.
Lmao 😂
I swear to Aman'Thul, you can't be a strong female character in this game without having an incredibly tragic love life - Calia, Jaina, (high hopes for Kalec), Jaina's mom, Alleria, Sylvannas, Vareesa, Moira, Agent Keeran, that worgen woman in the Alliance camp thing in WoD, even that one undead Warlock in the council of the black harvest that had a thing for Ebonlocke.
@@TheNexusChronus What was Sylvanna's love tragedy? not familiar with it
@@Ashod00 Well she was getting shagged by Nathanos, and she went looking for him after he got killed. Not sure if that's a love tragedy but yeah.
@@TheNexusChronus nah
Calia Menethil: So I'm the queen of THIS dump?! What next....
Wrathion: Mommy?
"The Forsaken's ruthless leader is a formidable champion of her people. But with the Burning Legion's invasion, the stakes for the Dark Lady have never been higher. Should Sylvanas perish, her demise will be the beginning of her eternal damnation. All that stand between her and this doom are her Val'kyr, yet few of these spirit guardians remain. As her fate edges closer to the abyss, Sylvanas must decide how far she'll go to protect her people... and whether they're more precious to her than her soul."
-Legion summary of Sylvanas.
Lightforged Undead, the new allied race, unlocked by the player guiding the recently deceased t'Paartos through his reawakening ritual, following his tragic failure in trying to solo Queen Azshara.
I don't think it will be an allied race, more likely it will be like the new Blood elves after the sunwell was repaired where they're just an eyecolor option in the character creation menu!
They will be a fine addition to the Horde.
@@fumarc4501 probably they're gonna be alliance new allied race
@Sina Mish Mast if they do, I hope we don’t get the Forsaken Night Elves. If anything, they’ll go with Sylvanas when she jumps ship.
Fucn bug
"...was it not for Arthas getting cold feet"
Omg xD lich king pun
Yeah that was funny. Arthas also royally screwed over Lorderon. Get it. Arthas is a king, and his scourge caused so much devistation.
I think the subs would be MUCH higher if Blizzard found a way to get ALL of the story in front of ALL the players. The new cut scenes help a ton, but there's still so much you don't know if you don't place every class, both factions, etc..
Not to mention the books and short stories
New "cutscenes" are off putting because they look like they are done for PS1
No they help not, because they retcon a ton of things, or they make no sense at all. They are well made, no question, but the Story itself and how they write the Chars is just bad.
Yes, on my RP Forsaken I always suggest Lilian be the leader.
Calia Menethil, agent and puppet of the light.
We saw it in the Light Dranei, they were but toy soldiers dressed in shiny tin armor. Calia will have more in common with Sylvanas if she leads the forsaken and frankly Sylvannas and the Light can benefit each other very well. She wants eternal undeath and they seemingly want control of the toys. It wont be long until the time when "the light [will strike] a bargain with the enemy of" Alliance and Horde.
We saw that at least in the alternate world that the Light Forged, and evening the Naaru, can go the same as the Scarlet Crusade. Eventually there will probably be so servants of the Light who break away and try to create a Light Forged Titan or something.
@@nevermore7285 That would be something - all the running about we did to stop Fel and Void (and maybe Death?) from getting their paws on our world soul, and Light was sitting back going 'thanks suckers, we'll just pop in while you're busy'.
@@madsword19 You've left aside Arcane magic enemies (the opposite to Fel: order vs disorder), we've already tasted. So basically we still have to find out the dark side of light (pun intended) and life magic.
Pretty sure Calia is there for an Alliance undead allied race.
Pretty sure Lillian will take over if the Banshee leaves. Hope that means she gets a new modle too
I doubt she will take either side. She is more focused on the Forsaken themselves than Horde or Alliance. If the new Forsaken become a playable race, I bet the player can choose either faction like we could with Pandarans. But even then, I suspect the faction lines will become blurred in the next expansion.
It sounds like Sylvannas will not be dead in the next expansion, but will be exiled from the Horde. After which, all the leaders with high aggressive tendencies in the Horde and Alliance (Varian, Garrosh, Sylvannas) are gone. Thus a sustainable peace will be possible.
Why though? When has Lillian Voss EVER taken an interest in politics? She's hardly even a part of Forsaken society, let alone a potential leader. And whatever happened to that council that was ruling the Undercity in Sylvannas's stead? Whatever happened to the conflict of having Forsaken who just wanted to die? This storyline is really getting the Blizzard treatment of being told in a very nice way but having plot wholes bigger than an elephant's twat who just had triplets (credit to Samantha Bee for that analogy)
@@jefftank3300 Calia is good friend to jaina and she resurected with the help of Anduin "alliance high king" so for sur she will stand with the alliance and for sure because the game have the PvP mechanic i dont see Blizzard make the 2 faction's allied
so i see Calia become Alliance leader for "light undead" is more reasonble
all the allied races are subrace for playable race and the only 4 races left with no subrace are (Gnomes/Goblins/Worgens/Undead)
so i expect light undead "allied race" subrace for the alliance and like worgen race for the Horde
@TheNexusChronus
Sylvanas killed around half the council for "desertion" during the event in Arathi Highlands. The rest are still around, but since there's no longer any Undercity to rule in Sylvanas' absence... Yeah, I wouldn't consider that a plot whole.
@@RileyRivalle2 Must have missed that, thanks. Also props for reading a bitch for her spelling of hole. I see you, you shady fcker
Banshee Queen Loyalists during next expansion:
"Did you think we forgotten, Did you think we forgiven....."
@ComocosonoEWL Dude, you don't deserve to be part of the Horde with that way of thinking. The Horde is held together by honor, loyalty and mutual respect. Sylvanas has tarnished all of those. Honestly I vouched for Sylvanas, I was on her side, even after burning Teldrassil, because this is war. But to not give a damn about your allies just goes too far. She spat in Baine's face and tried to kill Saurfang several times. She's turning into Garrosh more and more. Soon enough she will say that the Forsaken are the top race and then we'll just have a better Garrosh. This is why I would rather follow Saurfang and Thrall, rather than serve a self-serving queen.
I blame blizzard for their poor handling of an amazing character
YES! I WANT THE TRAITORS IMPALED ON THE SPIRES OF ORGRIMMAR!
Demian Zivkovic good thinking. I can hand you a ladder, traitor. All banshee bitch bootlickers should be purged.
@@maltorian1258 saurfang should have been executed after letting malfurion go, that simple. the guy doesnt follow orders that go against his honor which end up getting people killed, fuck your honor, living is more important.
baine pretty much betrayed everyone in the horde when he decided his honor was more important then winning the war by giving jaina her brother back, but hey i can even see that being forgiven if he had just said we wont win this way but we will still win, but he didnt do that he conspired with the enemy and a traitor so yeah he can go straight to hell cause his father would have fully bitch slapped him for his stupidity.
Thrall is just an idiot, great leader yes, but an idiot. ill leave garrosh in charge because his dad was a "great" leader, i must kill him myself, i must go an recommune with the elements, or my personal favorite ive know sylvanas for years she a master tactician and good at assassination so of course she would send two rouges to kill me instead of a squad of dark rangers because that makes sense.........
That birth scene tho!!!! 2:30 LOL!
Best nativity scene ever and don't you deny it!
I like carrots
looked for this comment! not disappointed!
"Sylvanis cares about the Forsaken"
(Watches war campaign ending cimatic)
Yea about that.......
“I did *pity* the forsaken”
Yea..she didn’t REALLY care it was merely pity
I mean she did until then
2:31 THAT IS THE CREEPIEST THING I HAVE SEEN IN NOBBEL'S VIDEOS!
Seriously is that how birth happens in WoW? A fully clothed and smiling 8yo coming gout of a restrained mother inside a decrepit inn surrounded by hostile mobs?
LOL
Nightmare fuel. Lmao!
Yes.
Light-risen or Lightforged undead would be a neat extra option for the Forsaken. People seem against the idea of Calia being the leader, and I kinda get it, especially as she doesn't even look like a typical Forsaken, but given some new Light-emanating undead roaming the halls of the Undercity (eventually we'll go back there, I'm sure), with less bones showing (we are getting those customization options soon in the next expansion and I wonder if this is why), it could feel like a more gradual transition and possibly even work in the long run.
Sylvanas has got to go, though. The writers have set her up as too much of an antagonistic figure to ever be a leader in the Horde again. I'm tired of the Horde's instability. They're no longer a ragtag group of factions working together to survive, as they originally were in the start. They are a fully-fledged alliance of nations. They need to get their shit together so we can have more interesting stories that don't involve someone, somewhere, fucking up royally or being a total asshole to their own allies.
It's. Boring. And way too over-played.
Having Calia as the new Forsaken leader would be as much terrible as it would be cringe-worthy. Given how Calia was raised, the forces that are involved here, least thing we need is someone raised as some kind of perversion by the Light and other powers. Calia, or at least her body, now serves as a slave, as a vessel for foreign forces, such as Light..the Naaru, who seek to bend all living creatures them to enforce their 1-sided views.
In short, Calia is bad news, really really bad news, not because she may become a leader, but because of what she has become herself, this Light-born ''undead'', a perversion, an abomination....and a puppet to forces we should never meddle with.
Yep. She's literally just a puppet for the Light. Not to mention she did shit all for the Forsaken and simply used her royal status to claim authority while Sylvanas actually fought for and led the Forsaken through their darkest hours - and made them what they are now rather than the Lich King's minions.
@@korsekil It's true, but regardless, Calia is one fucked up....whatever she even is now. The Light cannot raise ''undead'' so clearly there was some other force involved in her ressurection that we aren't aware of...yet. Suffice to say, Calia and what she embodies, is a danger to everyone, not just Horde.
From the perpective of a non undead player.
Literally any thing is better than miss "morally Grey"
The story of the forsaken ended in wrath as far as im concerned.
They got their revenge and should have passed on.
The dead should remain just that.
@@arcangleGabriel It's likely that they have found a new purpose to exist. The thing about the ''afterlife'' is that it's all darkness and torment for all eternity, especially in the case for undead, who's souls have been twisted by shadow. That is why Sylvanas seeks to find ways to live on, to prevent forsaken from dying out, because she has seen the afterlife, which is so horrific that it scares the shit out of even the baddest of the bad guys.
Afterlife isn't peace in paradise, it's all darkness and suffering, dark entities tearing at your soul until nothing is left. So yes, better to stay undead, than to endure death.
The only exception to that rule are devoted followers of the Light, or Nature, as seen by paladins and emerald dream, the rest, however, suffer in the Warcraft's version of hell.
@@Kristers_K tainted light, an undead priest helped resurrect her and all their power is void tainted.
Thanks for bringing her story to light.
I love how this Calia Menethil woman was basically a literal who nobody background character in the lore UNTIL THEY NEEDED a quick last minute replacement for the evil queen they're about to kill off. "OH HEY GUYS IT'S CALIA MENETHIL!! Remember her?! She's your new hamfisted racial leader now! Pls love her."
I stopped playing but always watch Nobbel to keep up
That's all I do as well. The game has changed so much I just can't get into it anymore
same here
Same
I am so done with Blizzard butchering the story of ever Horde faction leader just to force the 'muh war' narrative .
Agreed. I wonder if alliance will ever have such an obvious flaw...
It makes sense that the Orcs and undead have such shortcomings. The orcs are like children who have just figured out they can walk, they are confused whether to follow the old ways or to forge a new path towards something else. Thrall is the representation of the new path, he chose to try to coexist and was ridiculed for it so he chose to give up his war-chief status. Garrosh was the epitome of the confusion as it ended with his madness and subsequent death. We all knew from the beginning that the undead only served themselves. Sylvanas only joined the horde as a way to build power for when she got her revenge on arthas. Where they went wrong was killing off vol’jin like they did. But after that, all the story so far was pretty predictable. Throughout wow the developers have been hinting that sylvanas needed to die as far back as the wrathgate. They just implemented it poorly. It doesn’t matter how anyone feels about it, the writers planned all this long ago, it’s just the implementation that is the problem. I feel like we are gearing towards the end now, where the horde and alliance come together as one big happy family.
@@CHRSS111 They should have with Jaina or Greymane considering their hatred was primed but Blizzard is rolling it back as usual in dumb ways.
@@hurotiz The only thing they have planned all along is to have constant nonsensical conflict just because they need to have the 'warcraft ' bit in the title . It doesn't excuse poor set up writing and just throwing character development out the window for a majority of the characters .
Thrall was always interested in making peace with the alliance and coexisting this is why it made 0 sense for him to promote Garrosh as the new Warchief , but alas Blizzard needed to force the conflict so they had to make Thrall become dumb dumb all of the sudden and make the worst possible choice in passing the Warchief mantle .
At this rate we will soon run out of leaders that they can ruin .
Dreamscape I agree that wow has suffered from poor writing and I would have liked it better if sylvanas had gone out like the badass she is in wotlk against arthas but unfortunately they gave us this mess to deal with and I honestly think they wrote themselves into a corner lol. The current story writers are baffled how to get their story straight
Sylvanas is probably gonna die, but I still hope she can find atonement for her soul.
blizz wouldn´t dare to kill her
The god knows how many elves that burned would like to have a word with you
I like to think Talea is Bolvar and Katrina's (Onyxia) daughter. That's right, a half human, half dragon gorgeous offspring
But if her father wanted her to marry deathwing so is not like some sort of incest game of thrones thing?
@@SalciusLinas what, who wanted to marry deathwing? Also Deathwing already did it, Alexstraza.
...Who?
honestly? it’s an interesting concept. I really do like her, between her personality and aesthetic, and if they do continue this “Sylvanas is the villain” plot then she’ll be a decent race leader for the forsaken, but I think for now, Sylvanas has earned her place as the Dark Lady, and I think it should stay that way. But Calia is still neat, and has a very interesting place in the story
Yeah, because the Forsaken would totally follow a Menethil again. Worked out so great the first time, right?
they only hate arthas, they actually love the others
deathdoom8 The other Menethil’s? Are there any besides Calia and the father who Arthas stabbed? I haven’t been keeping up with all of the lore, only pieces of it.
The dude that sells cockroaches in UC has done more to help Lordaeron/Forsaken than Calia Menethil.
The list of people that would make better Forsaken leaders includes Scarlet Crusaders because while they might hate us, at least they did something about it instead of fleeing to Southshore to listen to My Chemical Romance.
Future Queen of the Forsaken? Hell No!
Thrall then Garrosh then Vol Jin now Sylvanas. I vote not!
She deserves it
She doesn’t need to die to step down. Doesn’t mean she will allow that.
@Miranda Durango Did you even read my reasoning for killing her? It has nothing to do with hating her she is evil.
@@mattieonutube273 so players kill millions ingame, and other leaders have killed thousands and thousands aswell.
We dont need to loose another horde leader.
ComocosonoEWL this comment didn’t age well
Sylvanus will forever be my war chief
Sylvanas Windrunner for the new Horde
Orgrim Doomhammer for the Old Horde
The reborn.
The perfect name for an alliance version of the undead raised by the light.
I hope the Alliance doesn’t get Undead. Especially not Lightforged undead. They already get the Space Goats, Broken would have been better, and the Horde need a light allied race. But, thats jmo.
I say that if Sylvanas is out of the picture the Forsaken move into a council of leadership format. The respective leaders of the Deathguard, the Apothecary, Dark Rangers if they are still around, and citizenry should rule in a manner that befits the Forsaken spirit.
Lillian is out for herself and is unaligned with the Forsaken while Callia is essentially a part of the Alliance, at least as far as sensibilities are concerned.
We have been left gutted with no power-base and no means of procreation. The Forsaken WILL die off unless our scattered forces are consolidated and turned in earnest towards conquest. Gilneas is honestly looking pretty good right now. I'm sure there are ways to burn off some blight....
Power to the Forsaken.
I’m so excited to see what might happen next with her! I saw her recent visual change for the game and my goodness, she’s so different! But in a good way imo.
I pity Sylvanas. So much. I think I always knew she would be lost, just as the once human man who broke her was. But still, it is so tragic to me what she has done. Has become. I still wish she could be saved, because even with all the terrible things she has done she also sacrificed more than most for her people. Both in life, and again in undeath.
If Kerrigan could redeem herself after the deaths of billions, regardless of whether she was influenced by Amon or not, then maybe... Just maybe...
Nathanos is the last boss for the expansion.
Yep
There are still people who act like Sylvanas has been this virtuous good girl before BfA lol
She was forgivable.doing things in a war already started.she attacked gilneas and Southshore for garrosh.She had a good explanation but now................
@@badrinath5306 Good explanations? She went behind Garrosh's back to raise more undead and blight Gilneas.
They totally fucked her character up in BFA.
@@minolamycat91 Explain. Because I see her as no different than back in Warcraft 3. How is what she's doing now any worse than idk...torturing and experimenting on horde members, conspiring with a demon, or trying to enslave all Val'kyr? It's all been to benefit herself.
@@justin1594 She's all hysterical and in love with that shit character Nathanos. I agree she always had the edgy bitch aura, but she was never like this.
20:29 Imagine the pitchforks this would have raised in 2019. God damn, I miss Garrosh
Light infused Forsaken and Dark infused Night Elves. Sounds interesting.
You mean Void Elves
@@ainsleyharriot6060 Actually I was thinking of the Night Warrior.
Forsaken can already be priests so thats sort of a thing
@@bluexephosfan123 Undeads hurt themselves when they use holy magic in lore.
@@hanakogane2234 I think that has more to do with their ambivalence as beings of death. I think that those who fully reembrace the Light don't have to deal with those issues.
i'm very disappointed in how the writers had dealt with sylvanas and i feel sad that another character with so much build up just to go down in flames do to lack of finding a villain for the next expansion
You clearly don't know your lore. She's exactly the same as she was in Vanilla.
Sylvanas is an amazing character, but her character arc has never changed. She has lost her way, after regaining freewill and after Arthas’ death, but every time she followed the same path of self preservation and using others to get what she wants.
Having an ally you know will stab you in the back just makes it all the more exciting. Especially for those of us who never trusted her. But I’m happy to say that the Forsaken as a whole have grown on me, and I’m proud to call them members of the Horde, in spite of Sylvanas. And don’t worry, we know you Banshee Queen loyalists are still out there. Keep plotting with you bad selves!
@@SAOin-np1np except her character was probably changed in the "Edge of night" short story, because there was not much to do with her character after the death of the Lich King
It really disappoints me how they've handled Sylvanas; her story could have been so much more. Personally, I'd stand with the Dark Lady because she's always been my favorite Horde leader and she's had the hardest backstory out of any WoW character in my opinion. Every hand she's been given in every situation has been absolute crap; doomed if you do, doomed if you don't. The impossible decisions she's had to make are a part of why I love her. I'll go with Pyro's hope that she's doing all of this for a reason and it's just another impossible decision that she's had to make that people with weaker wills wouldn't understand.
Nope peace ain't impossible.staying in the undercity like a crazed shut in isn't impossible.not killing the night elves isn't impossible.she had choices and surely in bfa she has chosen the more stupid and insensible ones.
@@badrinath5306 I'd say that's jumping the gun. We don't know the reason behind it. TBH, though, I'd probably defect from the Horde to join the Dark Lady because I connect to her the most. Ever since I joined in Wrath, she's always been my favorite; I'll still trust that she had to make a tough call that no one else could make. Every horde leader has done some messed up stuff too; there's blood on everyone's hands.
Scott Edwards there is no excuse or reason to genocide an entire race.
@@MrVlad12340 Like what people did to them from the start? It's a kill or be killed universe for the most part. There's always a genocide happening. You think the humans haven't done their fair share of genocide?
Scott Edwards no they havent lol. High elfs who are now blood elfs did. To the trolls. And undead attacked first... literally just play Warcraft 3 campaign , its all there. She killed Garithos despite him honoring their deal.
My hope remains to have Lillian take over the forsaken, transforming them into her own kind of crusaders against the other undead.
No thanks, we have our Dark Lady.
if blizzard really goes trough this then that's it.. just the final straw to break the horse's back, the final insult to prove that they just dont give a shit about their characters and what they ment
You just noticed that Hordie? They were whipping Alliance fanbase bloody with an iron flail ever since Cata. Nice for you to feel a slap now.
The problem with Calia as Forsaken leader is that they can then NEVER have a war in Warcraft again, because Calia would never turn against Anduin
I think it's more likely that Calia becomes the leader of a 'Hollowed Forsaken' allied Race for the Alliance
then the question is, who would lead the Forsaken? If Sylvanas goes, I can't imagine Nathanos staying, so who would lead them then?
are there any Undead that could rise to that position, the only ones that come to my mind are Gunther Arcanus and Meryl Felstorm,
and both of them aren't really that prominent within the Forsaken
ill be the forsaken leader dw
any random undead is a 1000times betetr choice as forsaken leader then calia ever will be
my biggest problem with slyvy and this is coming from an alliance player usually...is that the horde was once again roped into the evil faction, again, for the 10th billion time. (I know its an exaggeration) but seriously why did vol'jin have to die just to have a faction war that Blizzard has been doubling back on because they know the controversy was too hot. We all knew once slyvy burnt teladrassil due to basic provocation she was going to need to be replaced because that's the same move Garosh did, oh wait! Garosh actually did nuked theramore for a tactical advantage even if it was scummy and so it became "Morally gray!!!" That's why i quit wow, i was so pumped for a first horde v alliance expansion since Legion was quite the good pve expansion. Now...unless they make something that both makes sense and feels wholesome in regard to the A vs. H i won't care.
And even despite that, she is the only indispensable character in the whole game's story now, since every other character is either dead or their stories tie to her somehow.
So looking back from 2021,good reason?
Regardless, you're right. It would be nice to have to clear out some evil Alliance leader for once (dominated Anduin excluded).
And I'm saying that as an Alliance person.
@@madsword19 Same for me, it would be creative to make Tyrande a pawn of the next big enemy. I've always somehow disliked her and Malfurion!
But i want faction wars to never end, this is world of warcraft we need crazy leaders, i just hope the alliance would be the ones with a crazy leader for once
Personally, I'm actually getting a little tired of the constant faction war in WoW - I think the game could be fun even as a PvE, and it would mean that Blizzard wouldn't have to keep making up reasons for the Alliance and Horde to keep fighting.
Agreed... But then maybe the dark iron Dwarves will decide to take over ironforge while nobody is keeping check on them and we have to flush them out afterwards
@@jd_27 Exactly - just because the faction war is over doesn't mean that there still couldn't be internal or external conflict. Azeroth is a tumultuous world, and there would doubtless be plenty of adventures for our characters to go on even if the Alliance and Horde were allied/at peace.
@@davidwilson2916 something else that could happen that gets me excited is the thought of all the animals/smaller races (Merlocs, Kobolds, etc) deciding that the Horde and Alliance are destroying the planet and they band together to take action against us somehow...
@@jd_27 Certainly a possibility. I think that Blizzard's focus on the Alliance-Horde conflict has actually been preventing them from giving time to the smaller races and developing some of the side stories/character arcs we have, and it'd be great to see Blizzard branch out from rehashing the same plotlines over and over again.
I want the Forsaken to be split off as a third faction. They have nothing in common with the Horde.
Boris Nachev Outcasts. Hated by the Alliance. Trying to establish themselves on Azeroth. Fighting to survive. They actually have a lot in common.
To be fair, neither do the Blood Elves. Many of the Horde races are basically those who would be hunted by the Alliance and are joining together as a show of force.
To think that a Menethil could again sits on the throne of Lorderon.
Really don't like the idea, feels wrong somehow.
Best Lore narrator ever !
I'm glad the horde is moving in this direction, Bane bloodhoof, SaurFang, Bane, the return of Thrall, I like all these genuinely good and honorbound Horde characters!
Now with Calia we get more of that, I'm really hoping to see more villains arise from the Alliance, a lot of players still see the Horde as "the evil faction" so I'd love to see it turned on its head for future expansions! :D
Based on the new 8.3 quest "Sail With the Tide" , she's pretty much confirmed to play an important role in the future, possibly leading the Forsaken.
Love your videos! So much fun to watch!
It would make more sense for the forsaken to ally with Arthas himself than with Calia, at least he thought he was doing something good, Calia merely ran like a coward and ignored her people for years.
Personally, I think the faction war needs to end, or at the very least, a ceasefire that lasts longer than one expansion. Every expansion, there’s something that causes the Alliance and the Horde to forget how they joined forces and go back to fighting each other. I really didn’t like how they did it after Legion, since that was an expansion where it focused on the bigger threat and us uniting against that threat, then suddenly we turn back on each other as we fight over Azeroth’s blood (instead of focusing on Azeroth herself). I’m with Khadgar, we have bigger priorities lol.
I am getting tired of this conflict war since vanilla.
I agree. I really wish that Blizzard could see how the need to have this constant faction war going on is negatively impacting their writing and lore - look no further than the butchering of Sylvanas and the whole Garrosh debacle for proof.
@@Marie895 First off, if Sylvanas truly loved her Forsaken 'like a mother', why would she kill off a whole bunch of them for daring to question her and yearning for peace? Last I checked, there weren't many mothers who killed their own children.
Second, the Horde is only 'at war' with Sylvanas because she literally keeps going around and executing them whenever they say something that makes her angry. If she wanted to belong in the Horde, maybe she should stop killing off its membership (Zelling, Thrall, Baine etc.).
And, finally, it's never too late for a franchise to evolve and change. Many MMORPGs of late have worked very well in a PvE format (ESO, GuildWars etc.), and WoW could very well follow suit - you'll never know unless you try.
That being said, if you want some very well written and researched arguments regarding Sylvanas' actions in BfA, check out 'Yaas Queen' by Lily Orchard. Ultimately, I really like the character of Sylvanas - I just think that Blizzard put her on the chopping block because of the PvP nature of WoW.
@@Marie895 yes warcraft. not faction warcraft. big difference.
@@EruanneJfO Have you played the original warcraft games? Besides the plot, of course, It literally said under the word WarCraft: ORCS VS HUMANS.
we will fight Sylvanas then she will be put on trial then a bronze dragon will help her go back in time to take the Lich King Spot instead of Arthas and we return to Warcraft 3. Sound dumb? well its Blizzard its how there story logic seems to go anyways.
Well, they've pretty much rehashed the story of MoP, so they might as well go the extra mile and copy WoD too.
I can't wait to say goodbye to one of the only interesting characters left. At least Sylvanas will live on in Classic.
The Classic is much more better and make sense than this new storyline it goes Garroshing all over again why can't the Alliance have a bad King because they are THE Alliance. The Horde always been the bad one. The one that always start a pointless war. The one that get Bad leader. They used to have a good leader once but people Thrall and Orgrim but in the record non of the Alliance leaders are the bad person ever in the first war they have Aduin Lothar in the second war they have King Therenas in the Third war they had Bovar Fordragon who was really good person and the next one are one of my favourite character King Varian Wryn but non of this character start the war with the Horde instead for unknown reasons the always start the war. I wonder why.
@@unknownbenefactor8029 To be honest, I'm an Alliance guy, and I fucking miss Arthas. A LOT.
I wish we had crowned Sally Whitemane High Queen.
I love this video. It actually took effort to put together, not just clips from WoW gameplay..
Me at work: starts laughing
Co-workers: What is it?
Me: nothing...
My brain: that scene at 2:33 thought...!
I'd pick true death over following that Menethil.
So if your playing a forsaken.
You would rather fight for the elven bitch that abandoned your people in life, leaving all within lordaeron to their death.
Than the rightful heir to your homeland in life.
You have forgotten who you once where and you no longer deserve existence.
If their place in life matters nothing and what they were matters nothing.
Then they have no rights to what they once were, owned, or lands to whom they belonged.
If their lives as citizens of lordaeron matters nothing.
Then more so than any other race they are monsters and should have been wiped out after their revenge against their traitor prince was done.
If their lives before didnt matter then their original motivations should not exist.
The Forsaken deserve better then a tired old Banshee Queen they’ve long since outgrown. It’s time for the Forgiven.
During the first half of the video I thought to myself "I guess forsaken cant reproduce." Glad you mentioned that later Nobbel!
You called it! Story Hints in Patch 9.2.5
I love the random hostile Tirisfal Farmer in the background at 2:37
Wonder if the shot at 22:50 hints Sylvanas will peace out and leave Nathanos in charge of the Forsaken.
It probably doesn't, but I'll take Nathanos over Calia any day of the week.
The thing is:
If you like him or not, Nathanos is known to the players. I also thought that he might be the one leading the forsaken in the future, if Sylvanas doesn't have that position (for whatever reason) anymore. I mean sure, some people dislike him, but at least they KNOW him. And it wouldn't be the first forsaken leader that isn't beloved by all the players.
Calia while not being uninteresting isn't known very much. Some of the Alliance NPCs know her (like Jaina), the forsaken NPCs could know her (at least, most of them?), and the priest players could remember her. But for a big part of the playerbase, she could be a complete unknown. If you think how players reacted to Garrosh who also wasn't very known she could have a hard time after bein introduced. Sure, the character could be well written - that would help for sure - but to have a leader for a faction alot of players don't know is kind of hard - especially if you have to follow up Sylvanas.
On a sidenote: For what Blizzard is doing with the horde right now she would be a bit to soft I'd think. Sure, maybe the writing will change for the next addon, but as it is right now, I think she could be "to nice" to be the forsaken faction leader...
If she *has* to be a racial leader, ideally she just leads a group of newly raised undead on the Alliance. Just keep her as far away from the Forsaken as possible. Sylvanas is the face of the Forsaken, trying to replace her with a character who hasn't experienced any of their struggles would be a horrid story move, and destroy everything that makes the Forsaken a unique race.
Plot armour is literally the least compelling story element you can even possibly conceive of. Blizz taking their SWEET time to kill off someone so CLEARLY destined to die for a final time is so incredibly telling that the Horde's fanbase want to keep Slyvanas because everyone drools over their undead goth waifu.
Like come the fuck on she committed GENOCIDE FOR FUCKS SAKE HAVE BETTER TASTE IN WOMEN JESUS FUCKING CHRIST.
@@Eric-sy1xu I mean genocide is hawt af tho
Because her forsaken wouldn't be rotten, they would fit in just fine with the alliance.
Undead joining the ranks of the Alliance would be one of the worst moves ever.
I've said this before, the only race that should never switch sides is the undead race. Historically the Alliance hated the undead more then any other race, by a mile. Even if they are making Anduin friendly towards them, the rest of the alliance should continue to dislike them, especially Worgens ,Night elves and Humans.
People forget how they already tried rejoining the alliance and a good portion of them got killed, the rest escaped.
@@Eric-sy1xu dont care, think its good to have an evil race you can play, not in the mood to have happy rays and sunshine all the time.
could you imagine if it was shown that tailia is calia and bovar's daughter, i never though of that tailia would be relatied to both lich kings
I don't care at this point. I was so excited after Legion but now.... I just don't care for the story or the game. My guild is into raiding and that has kept me around but it's just so boring with all the grind that it takes to keep a good mythic raiding toon. The story being so fucked in BFA just made it worse. I'm actually excited for Classic after months of not caring for it. Weird. Thanks for the video Nobbel
No ''butt-fuck ...who?'' Calia in Classic either. FeelsGoodMan.
BFA is crap, but Ill give 6 months to Classic before people realise how much time took leveling and getting gear, "time" these days many people doesnt have, aaah and dont forget how broken were some classes and how glitchy the game was
The story is completely fine, it is just too slow because Blizzard started do complicated story and people are losing their patience and forgot many important things from last expansions. Then you have people who ignore in-game text and just consume cool cinematics and then blame Blizzard for shit story.
Sarazan the story is completely garbage... Don't try to "be cool" or whatever it is you're trying to do by even attempting to defend BFAs shit show of a garbage story.
@@sarazan2586 It has nothing to do with it being ''slow''. The plot is dogshit. It's lowkey insulting to even pretend this story is something super amazing when we've already fucken had this a few years ago. Now they're just throwing in some shitty Game of Thrones plot with this Calia bitch that came out of nowhere to try and justify it.
after 2 years, you are correct
0:59
“Was it not for Arthas getting cold feet”
God damn it Nobbel!
It'll be really cool to get an option to become a light fused undead.
here is a random person no forsaken really knows about, it's going to be the queen... great story.
Most people who know about lore know about her.
She has a better story than Bran the Broken...
@@Barragur There's nothing to know about her, because she's a nobody with a last name. She has literally never done anything in the lore and specially for the Forsaken in 15+ years. Might aswell make the Roach Vendor the leader, he's more recognizable.
I would /kneel to the Roach Vendor any day
@@arthasmenethil4672 Bran the Broken had his presence and role known from the beginning of the series and everything that happened was somewhat expected, except for the end which is a total fuck up. Calia has just been introduced in Legion for 5% of the playerbase to see, has not been seen by a majority of players in game up to this day and had not had any decent character development to justify taking a mantle as a leader of anything, let alone the forsaken...
the bigger issue of having calia lead the forsaken isn't people being unfamiliar with her its that her character doesn't fit. She's morally good, the people who play forsaken don't pick the race to be lead by the Horde's version of Anduin, they enjoy being at best chaotic neutral. Would be a HUGE mistake to have a morally good character lead the forsaken. Would legit ruin any race identity with the forsaken for a lot of players.
You know you have the option to follow Sylvanas right? We'll probably have a third faction of undead leaded by Sylvanas and a segment of the Horde Forsaken leaded by Calia. So you can just choose the kind of Forsaken you want to be: a light one or a dark one. And Tyrande will probably left the Alliance as well and we will have another faction. So I'm okay with Calia being leader of the Horde Forsaken.
i could honestly see derreck leading the forsaken and baine running the horde at this point with calia manning the light forged undead which will probably end the war on undead and probably the faction war as a whole.
Never. Sylvanas is the leader of the Forsaken, always and forever.
Funny how minions never rebel huh.
Every last forsaken is nothing but Another brick in her wall against death shes a cowardly revenge obsessed bitch.
Who got her revenge and by that notion the conclusion of her reason for existence in the second expansion.
You forsaken Are naught but misguided fools and shields for you waunted dark Lady.
The scarlet crusaders have it right destroy all undead.
@@arcangleGabriel yeah yeah keep talking over and over about it as we would care, may the dark lady watch over you anyway.
Times Change
2:33 HAHAHAHHAH! I did not expect that at all!
Great job! I think Lillian could lead the Horde Forsaken and Calia could lead those who went to the Alliance.
The "honor" is the horde's Social Contract. It's most primitive rule. Without it, there are no laws, no leaders, no reason, no purpose and nothing that binds the horde together. Especially the Orcs and the Forsaken.
The Goblins have Union, the Elfs standard high-rule, the Tauran a chieftancy and the Trolls tribemanship.
But what do the orcs have? Warchief. The forsaken? A banshee Queen. None is permanent or estabilished outside of the founder, no rulling court, no rulling tradition. Just nomads or people banned together temporary.
Would the founder die without a named heir, everything would fall in disarray.
15:57, and THAT single statement right there is my biggest issue with BfA and this newest cinematic. Sylvanas has ALWAYS cared about the Forsaken, and now they write her as if she doesn't give 2 shits about anything but her own survival and death. Its trash writing.
Yeah but after that he says "she cares but she cares staying out of hell a lot more"
She has never “cared” about anyone but herself and her ambition. She “cared” about them after Wrath, but not for their sakes. She needed them to keep her bargain with the Val’kyr and stay alive. That’s been her only driving force since Cataclysm. Now she’s Death Magiced up and you can no longer deny the truth.
@@fumarc4501 Yea no, read the lore m8.
@Jason P No U!
@@fumarc4501 XD
Here I thought BFA's shit story line couldn't get any worse, and yet again I am proven horribly wrong. "So who the fuck is Calia?" I hear everyone asking...oh she's just yet another ham fisted Alliance no one knows or gives a shit about who's now going to be the next leader for the Horde! Seriously round up every fucking writer you have, put them in a contained cell, and drop them into the deepest part of the fucking ocean...let them sink along with every hope the fans had of this being even a semi decent expansion! Seriously, what heroes do the horde have left to look up to now, let alone heroes who fans actually care about!?
Thrall who fucked off 5+ expansions ago, abandoned the horde, and no one cares about anymore because he was made into a bitch!? Saurfang who was once one of the greatest badasses is now actively aiding the alliance while betraying the horde because Garrosh 2.0? Baine who was hamfisted in and has played marginal roles at best until now, because they wanted to kill Cairne off screen rather then give him a proper story or cinematic send off? Vul' Jin, naaaa he's a fucking ghost now, couldn't be bothered to give him a decent send off either let alone let him rule for a single expansion cus the writers aren't smart enough to figure out how to write a complex character with any depth let alone a story that makes sense...now he hangs out with the guy from Death Note while pretending to be important. Rok'han? HAH he wasn't even a player story wise until this expansion, ya you saw him in WOD, did a quest or two, but unless you read the books he's another single expansion hero that the fan base hasn't yet bonded to. Let's see...who else we got...Lor'themar? Mr. Eyepatch himself who despite being around since BC has yet to do anything of great importance other then MOP, Lady Liadrin is a better leader then him and she's a supposedly neutral Paladin.
Since BC, Acti/Blizzard has been killing off every Horde hero they have without introducing or building new characters the fans can enjoy and come to love (they had a chance of reintroduction with WOD but decided "green man bad" instead), and now that they have no one left they are reduced to shit convenience writing and hamfisted narrative to try and implement new ones the fans knew nothing about until this current expansion. The crack elves are the only ones who have a good leader who was written well, but making her Warchief makes 0 sense since it's been only 1 full expansion since her introduction and we don't know enough about her to say "This is a good decision, I can get behind this!".
Sorry about the rant but I'm furious because I have loved the Warcraft franchise since Orcs and Humans and sunk countless hours into every one of them. I've boughten every game, every expansion and I'm still seeing what I love being shit on by a bunch of hacks and destroyed callously in front of my eyes by greedy execs. I want the franchise to do well, I want Blizzard to do well...with all the money they've made I wish they'd hire competent staff who valued a good game and story over lootboxes and pay to win features/cosmetics, becoming the next EA or Bethesda.
Victory For Sylvanas
Dark Lady watch over you.
Not my queen
@@Dreaddeamon I think that he means that Calia is not his queen, and I would have to agree with that.
ComocosonoEWL portraying Light as evil is worst kind if pandering Blizz ever did.
@@MrVlad12340 have you seen the Cinematic of what Naaru tries to do to Illidan? That is attempted rape. So FUCK the light!!. I like Alliance as much as Horde but the light is a twisted, corrupt, selfish conglomerate.
And for the record, Horde doesn't mean evil. And Alliance doesn't mean good guys. Both groups fight for a cause. The alliance has just as dirty of a past as the horde in their lore. The horde are just ulgy or rotting or monsteous in appearance. That doesn't make them bad guys or evil. They had a lot of bad luck such as being exiled and left for dead from a pious hierarchy. So they banded together and rebuked the oppressive governing bodies and made their own societies and cities.
It started with humans and orcs. The orcs were peaceful but they were turned against the humans after Sargeras tainted their minds.
@ComocosonoEWL Dude are you ok. I keep seeing you seeking attention and spamming others comments just to disagree.
Scrotum Monster uhu. And thats why “not bad guys Horde” now put a full blown genocide and war of extermination under their belt.
20:29 garry was savage
Why would Calia serve the Horde if she becomes leader of the Forsaken?
Ok so I see silvanis as being controlled by old gods and somewhere down the line we capture her and take her to neither light temple where she is turned by being clensed by the light. She is then cured from old god corruption and now understands and gives us vital info on what’s coming next. She steps down as warcheif and rides away in the sunset with Nathanos. There BFA ending cinematic!!!
That’s the craziest thing I can think of 😂😂😂
Sylvanas secretly being under Old God influence (or any outside influence, for that matter) would be such a cop-out
.
Better than making loyal horde betray their warchief alongside saurfang cause of his sense of honor that changes with the wind.
Fuck Nathanos, and that whole forced bs Windrunner x male human shit. Terrible writing,
No, Thank you very much but I have already chosen my lady and she is a dark one.
Betrayed my war chief once but never again
Awesome! I was hoping that you'd make a Calia video soon!!!
Calia as the new queen of the Forsaken?
In the wise word(s) of Rogal Dorn. NO.
There’s no way she will lead the horde forsaken, though it’s likely she will become the new queen of lorderan and lead forsaken members who have defected to the alliance
Ethan Hal also extremely unlikely. The vast majority of the Alliance would never accept any Forsaken. Any attempt to try to integrate them would end in violence. Murders and disappearances of undead I'd wager.
Okay, your response blending both the Warcraft and Warhammer universe- priceless. That being said, while I know that very few would accept Calia as the new Forsaken faction leader, she could (in fact) become the leader for a whole new faction in-game. Just saying. Who knows? It may not even be part of the classic "Alliance vs. Horde" set-up.
Kargath Bladefist (WoD) idk, I think that would be a good thing, in the past the alliance has never really had much infighting. A new mostly unaccepted race could bring some new interesting conflict. Just imagine it, anduin is the type of person who would try new things and invite these new forsaken to the alliance, and at first the other leaders seem okay with it, but eventually they grow sick of the forsaken’s unusual way of life and start having huge prejudice against them. To me that seems like a great way to add some internal conflict to the alliance while also seeing some cool character growth from main characters who struggle to accept undead (like our very good boi genn greymane). Just my opinion though
Todd Maccarone heh....thanks. Oh and I just got a shit idea... Tyrande is like Abaddon. A 10k year old failure blessed by gods.
Melting Tyrande mosaic screams in distain : FUCK YOOOOOU!
Why would anyone follow Voss? Dark Lady or Death!
No thanks. I'll pass on her.
Forsaken already been rejected by alliance. Because Alliance accept them as monstrosity. So will they accept today then? Forsaken named because their people don't accept them. If they join Alliance they named as Forsaken forsaken? Alliance hate undead before what changed today ? Blizzard please don't ruin all lore like that.
They met their families outside stromgarde and some decided they could overcome their former judgement. It's called character growth.
@@arthasmenethil4672 you said some but in truth it just few people
death and life can be in some side
The family Menethil had some interesting stuff going on in Warcraft History... this would be interesting if it comes true... oh my
On the otherh and, I don't think that many players actually know about her... so it would be interesting how they would set her up
I think we need to think bigger to understand the development of the undead leadership and predict its future.
[short version (explanation got rather long)]
Sylvanas is currently a pawn of the Voidlords and will discover it (with the help of some heroes). Meanwhile the light lady will gather her own forsaken under her banner. Both forsaken faction will strike against the voidlords and after that the real bitchfight will start.
[long version]
(past)
In the past Vol'jin got some "vision" that sylvanas should be leader, which was twisted as we know now.
At that time the legion was rolling in. Their main goal was to destroy Azeroth, because its a mighty sleeping giant.
With Vol'jin and the lionking dead, the leadership of the two big factions opposing the Legion was crippled. As the leadership of the Alliance was clear, the horde would have been in chaos. So a "mighty power" intervened and selected Sylvanas. With combined forces the burning legion was pushed back and heavy crippled.
So we can assume that the "mighty power" was not interested in Azeroth death. Considering the factions mighty enough with such intentions, we have the Titans who fought with us in the final battle and don´t act so hidden. This leads to the second faction. Sending the old gods they tried to twisted with the sleeping titan and are the reason for Sargeras to go on his crusade: The Void and its Voidlords!
(present)
This alone might be a bit over the top, so lets continue with the events:
Sargeras punched his sword into Azeroth and weakened the Titan. With Horde and Alliance on friendly terms this would be solved with ease and Azeroth would have grown stronger day by day until awakening into a mighty Titan. The Old Gods would be to weak to influence her anymore.
But Sylvanas heard of the mighty azerit and decided to use it to put an end to the everlasting thread of the alliance. So she waged war!
This not only weakens both in the long term, but also distracts them long enough from helping Azeroth recovering and even wounding her. This makes Azeroth vulnerable.
The faction taking profit out of it would be: The Voidlords with their Old Gods!
(future)
Like said in the Caverns of time: The war between orcs and humans made both strong enough to face the legion in wc3. So the war part is not always "bad" considering the enemies.
Considering that the "waves of war" are cooling down right now and Sylvanas grip growing weaker, the damage done to Azeroth will be shown soon. The Void might have starten to corrupt Azeroth and we might fight against it... but back to the undead.
Considering that Sylvanas is not as dump as some previous warchief, she might reveal that she was just a pawn of the Voidlord. This will piss her off and her interests will shift as well. She might need time to rethink everything and give up on her warchief title, giving it back to Thrall since she respects him.
During that time of doubt our "Light Lady" will make her move. She will gather surpressed Forsaken under her and create a new faction of undead under her banner. Meanwhile the Dark Lady will grow in hatred for the Voidlords. She will not like the Light Lady, but as a believer of the light and pawn of the N'aaru, both will unite against the pressing Void and deal with their internal bitchfight later.
("blizzard"s intentions)
Currently the Forsaken are under the iron grip of the Dark Lady. In Wotlk the Dreadlord faction was killed. With no opposing faction she grows more and more Tyrant-like. Bringing in an opposing faction will make the undead more interesting and likeable again (for the majority freedom-liking people out there). It would also be the third major change of Sylvanas character and deepen her lore further. Bringing her into dislike(fanbase excluded) and making her likeable again (increasing her fanbase).
The Light Lady is a good choice for an opposing char. She brings a complete different aspect to the forsaken. Always the damned one broken free from the lich king, they were despised by everyone, but as other people already said: She shows that there is another way to rise forsaken. This Light and Dark element in one faction would change the view upon the forsaken a lot. Cooperating with the Alliance will no longer be a "no go" since the church of light can't curse them anymore as undead abominations.
(disclaimer)
Thank you for reading until here. Just had one of those "everything makes sense" moments, where your mind connects every puzzle pieces together. Also if you read it in the future and i was right: No i cant read the future, only predict it out of the present. I am no saint, i am a scientist. (ok enough bad jokes)
Keeping new expansions focused on the common enemy would work well. They Have classic now for the world pvp and faction war. Seperate them to avoid having their own game compete for the same playerbase too much.
Underrated comment tbh
@ComocosonoEWL I think you missed his actual premise bro. The classic players are going to disproportionately be the "my faction uber alles" folk, and if they do keep moving forward with Retail, appealing to the "kiss and make up" people isn't such a bad strategy.
ComocosonoEWL faction war makes no sense because it cant end, game will be forced to remain with TWO factions forever. It is like running a race where nobody can ever reach the finishing line. Plus Horde is so pumped up on that laughable, immature hatred that it is cringeworthy by now. Yes Blizz know how to stroke your “fire” , too bad they robbed Alliance of any desire for war by not letting us retaliate.
@ComocosonoEWL IF they continue with any sort of faction war they NEED to adress the lore problem. Where are all the soldiers coming from? Half way through BFA there was a cinematic where Anduin is told they have to send farmers next and there are only enough soldiers for 1 push at orgrimmar in the last cinematic. So unless they are really going down the route where everyone dies and become undead in order to fight the void then they need to have a long period of peace so that world npc population can rise again. This could be solved with the SW:TOR choice of removing the players from the story and do a time jump. Like we help Khadgar or the bronze dragonflight with a problem, get thrown 60+ years into the future where population is higher and tensions between the factions resoult in a new war. Hell even start it with a warcraft 4 and WoW 2.0 after it where we the heroes have to mop up the shitstorm.
my hope and it has been this way for a while, ever since start is that the faction war would in some ways come to an end. with Jaina nearly coming full circle back, with Thrall being back in some ways, with Bane and Anduin moving down the same paths again they were before Tides of War. I could honestly see them ending the faction war. their would still be factions and still disagreements but war as a war would be over. That you could just have such a giant threat out in world that nothing else matters but that threat and that threat isn't going to be stopped in just one or two expansions that the faction wars at least for a while will end. and everyone can go and visit all the cities and be with whom ever they want to be. it is time to for that to change a great deal
i couldn't imagine any less interesting leader for the forsaken.
I wouldn't mind Lillian becoming leader of Forsaken. But I don't see it coming, Lillian was most of the time lone wolf, only teaming up with others in legion. In BfA it is sayed that her presence in war campaign is "requested"(whatever that means). She never showed any signs of her being leader or wishing it in first place. Also she was neutral to both factions till BfA. I think, they will leave her to be what she is, rather than changing her to leader all the sudden.
Bolvar Fordragon takes her place. You mention how the forsaken were formed, but if Bolvar were to face Sylvanas as he was now with the scourge at his beck and call and he wound up destroying 80% of the scourge's number against Sylvanas and her patron, it would free up Bolvar from having to exert control over the scourge, allowing him to actually step from the Frozen Throne. That said , in light of certain.... quests, i wonder what HIS endgame is with raising a certain dragon into undeath...i wonder if it was in fact his way of searching into making new forsaken, finding out if those with stronger wills could in fact resist his voice. Personally i hope the ending to this expansion is a battle of the monsters, The OG versus the Banshee Queen. One who has accepted his fall into darkness to save the lives of the country he loved. While the other fears that fall, to be obscure and to die, which is inevitable. "In the end, Death claims us all, Sylvanas, weren't those the words you told your previous Warchief? So naive...to think you could possibly escape yours." -Bolvar telepathically speaking to Sylvanas as she is overrun by the scourge. Though i could just see the faces of the Alliance and Horde as they're essentially watching the scene from the Return of The King where the ghost armies just ravage everything that is not an ally. "glad they're on our side...wait WHAT!?"
Forsaken is my favorite of the horde races, but after I read the book Before the Storm I will say that if I were actually into role playing I would have decided to leave the horde as Forsaken if I could. For a leader to kill her own people after making a big deal that they couldn't reproduce is just madness in my opinion. I think Calia would be better for the Forsaken, maybe the light could change them like they did for her and they wouldn't need the Val'kury anymore. That is just my opinion of the matter.
@ComocosonoEWL I think you dont get the point at all.
The forsaken should have died when their purpose was fulfilled back at the end of wrath.
The forsaken were the citizens of lordaeron, raised as mindless undead and then broken free from the lich kings control, on a quest to avenge their people's fall at the hands of the traitor prince Arthas.
They did This. they fulfilled their purpose.
Making more is just like Garrosh said:
"Have you any idea what This means? What difference is there between you and the lich King now?"
The answer? Nothing.
She and her kind are now everything they fought.
They are monsters deserving of the peace of death that they were once denied.
Maybe in the end the light will show them mercy.
There is speculation that blizzard might be getting rid of factions. So that can answer your question of what getting rid of Sylvannas will result in. Check out BellularGaming’s take on that.
I personally think it’s a good idea because they already have a terribly hard time thinking of story reasons why there even is a faction split in the first place. The factions don’t even have much differences anymore, most of the leaders are friends and the new races have deep cross faction history.
Watch and after this, we see the army of the light invade azeroth and we gotta fight them back, or we fight the void, and Yrel finds us (alliance) and attempts to help us (in questionable ways)
Go Team Lilian! She understands the forsaken better than Calia. It's not a proper forsaken leader without edge!
Alliance don't deserve the undead, the best race in the game, with all the alliance has done to them.