Vegan Gains And Destiny Scream At Each Other In Insane Debate
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- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
- DEBATE: Destiny and Vegan Gains get into an abortion and vegan debate ft. WickedSupreme and Lycan...
Date: 16 July, 2023
Vegan Gains
► / @vegangains
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00:00 Teasers / Intro
00:54 Vegan Gains has Nick dunk
01:42 Vegan Gains on language and consciousness
06:02 Babies can't differentiate sounds until 2 years old?
09:49 Language is a proxy for sophisticated thought
11:58 Dog's abstract understanding of time
18:14 Vegan gains repeats Destiny's argument that language is a proxy
24:18 All of the parts of the brain are there and then they grow
34:10 "I don't have to humanise a human..."
41:44 9 months vs 100 days
49:08 Allophones and phoneme
#destiny
#politics
#debate
Destiny vs Pro-Life Activists | FULL DEBATE @whatever
►ruclips.net/video/TQ5W-YkGE40/видео.html
Veganism:
Cute at 20.
Pathetic at 40.
cope
The whale thing is kind of true a tually, Orcas are capable of co-ordinating strikes on prey animals using timing etc, and are capable of communicating common areqas they visit to each other by tones.
@@zeex9338 Actually he... is right, there are sub-structures that do grow and form in the brain progressively through your entire life. Several synapse networks are formed, and then become repurposed, reform, or maybe are damaged.
He's just not aware of that fact and was saying random crap he thought was right.
@5:28 "i dont even know how we would determine if it can understand language"...says the guy citing "consciousness" without a way to determine what that is, what parts are required, when it begins or whether or not its even real
Ah yes, the monthly vegan debate.
We'll stop laughing when they stop being stupid.
If you ever want to argue for eating meat just look at vegan gains. Honestly maybe its just natural or maybe it is him being vegan but he is a psychopath.
Needed to give VG time to watch Destiny debate other people and try to relate that to veganism and try to poke logic holes that way.
It's that time of month again women am I right..
@@markzuckergecko621 Wanna explain how vegans are stupid bud?
VG is honestly inspiring. I wish I had the same level of confidence to come back every 6 months with the same argument thinking "This time my argument is going to get him."
Someone remind me again, what was the definition of insanity...
Destiny totally lost this one though
He has been doing this for over a decade on youtube.
Ok meat rider. Even erudite knows vegan gains won.
@brandonsobremisana6681 meat eater isn't an insult. We're designed to eat meat. You may want to put the petunia down and have a steak, you'll think clearer.
Vegan Gains: We dont know the difference between dropped cups and talking until 2yo
Also Vegan Gains: Babies at 12-18 months can reflect on self awareness
That shit was so wild. I guess my son using sign language at 6 months was just all lucky coincidences.
@@Kefka2010 lmao yeah, the majority of healthily developing babies start speaking by two years old. How can they not differentiate sounds
Good to see Vegan Brains hasn't gotten any better at his argumentation over the years. We all need something consistent in our lives, we should appreciate him for it.
Alex O'Connor already did vegan gains the favor of showing how stupid detsiny's position on veganism is.
I also enjoy steak, so it’s good to see this man won’t convince anyone otherwise
@@theclerk3163 Just like I like to eat human babies and dogs, so it's good to see Destiny won't me otherwise.
I just really do not understand what is so difficult about the concept that a baby has the capacity for higher thought and will eventually grow into an adult human, while a pig will not
VG seems entirely focused on the present moment, not at all about the capacity of future development
@@plokky8052 but a feutus of 20 weeks has the capacity for human thought so after 20 weeks its wrong to kill it? so how can you eat babies under destiny framework?
This is actually a calmer debate for Destiny standards.
except when destiny got butthurt at the end and softly accused vegan gains of beastiality
@@brandonsobremisana6681 D doesn't even think beastiality is really a bad thing, so it's hardly an insult to him.
@@brandonsobremisana6681 damn the vegan gains simp just ignored his random hit on melina. Also that was no soft accusation, It was Vegan gain's logical frame work that justifies his bestiality
You mean for Vegan Gains standards. Surprised he didn't start screaming
@@brandonsobremisana6681 that came out of nowhere right? You do remember that moronic piece of shit attacked Destiny's family, right? Is life hard when your IQ is so low? Do you struggle? If you do, I have a dilema, should I feel bad or should I just enjoy life more because I'm not walking it in your shoes?
I am - right this minute - having a conversation with my NOT YET 2-year-old. She is very angry about not be allowed to have a donut. She is fully capable of expressing that anger in words, and differentiating voices and words, particularly the words she doesn't like.
What Vegan Gains said in this conversation just displays the wildest level of ignorance, ever.
My guess would be „No“ is on the list of words she doesn’t like. 😂
Did she successfully debate you into giving her the donut or nah?
Yeah, but what if she was a dog.....
It's so obvious he doesn't have kids. I know a 1 n a half year old that can definitely argue over what he wants, knows what dada and mama mean, loves eating goldfish ( "Gogo's" ), and knows how to be polite and share when told. This dude is retarded. A one year old is infinitely smarter than any dog.
@@Imperial_Squid I don't negotiate with terrorists.
While working a brutal 12 hour shift in a refrigerated warehouse.. listening to to
these kind of debates keeps me going.
these types of are perfect for long shifts, because you can leave the conversation at any point and guaranteed the conversation will not have progressed at all
@willkelly9726 Haha, true!
Are you me? I work in a cold storage facility too.
US Foods?
Yes i listen to this when i work and i love vegan gains x destiny debates. Sooo funny
These monthly Vegan debates are like therapy for me. Regardless of my current mood or how things are going in life, this guy always makes me feel way more intelligent than I actually am.
My go to are the old Destiny vs Demonmama debates lol 😂 If I feel particularly dumb on any given day I pull up the Demonmama vs Gaines debate that Destiny reviews. You get double the feeling of mental acumen
VG makes me feel better about eventually acquiring dementia; because even then I know that my capacity for remembering how to argue my point across will still far exceed this man's ability to conceive basic ideas and concepts.
Destiny's arguments against veganism are really bad though, but VG is obnoxious and arrogant. He cannot explain himself well, because he assumes that people "should just know."
@@bean-podthanks for this.
Ah yes, our monthly vegan gains shouting match
maybe he'd be smarter with some meat in his diet
It entertains me too, vegan gains is such a rude clown 😂
@@Kamfrenchiethink he loves some meaty sausage already.
It's morally permissable to eat anything that doesn't speak English.
So cannibalism is on the table if they speak another language?
Ayyo french people, im coming for you.
So "Chinese food" is on the menu?
@@stepfaniehawkins205 Avin' a Chinese later, I am, mate, aren't I?
What makes something morally permissible?
My favorite part was when he admitted he doesn’t know anything about babies and then continued to argue about them in the same snide tone of voice for another hour
I was a head Montessori Preschool teacher and literally everything Vegan Gains said about 2year old children(I was the head teacher of this class, had 13 kids in my class) is so fucking wrong lmaoo. I had 1.5-3 year olds speaking in full sentences, understanding what I was saying to them, have them do extremely complex tasks for their age, and even express their emotions in almost a regulatory way. He's so fucking off .
Yeah, people recommend teaching sign language to babies around 6 months but you could start a little earlier. 6 months is old enough for mostly all babies to have developed enough to use hand motions AND, of course, understand your words.
I'm assuming he read something about kids not being developed enough to USE speech until later and then he thought that meant they didn't understand there was a difference between words vs a plate breaking. I know babies find speaking to be more difficult than hand motions, hence why I think that.
That was so wild.
Are you no longer a teacher because of all the accusations?
That's the exception to the rule
@@Sweetiemuffinit’s not an exception, I have 4 kids and they all spoke and understood two part directions by 1. All you have to do is talk to them and they learn quickly.
@@Kefka2010this VG dude needs to get out and experience things instead of creating a fantasy world in his head from reading studies. He doesn’t seem to have a practical understanding of anything
Is the disgusted tone in his voice natural or because of his life choices? Was vegan gains born with disgust for reason and facts or is that a choice he made at some point in his life?
It's his lack of animal protein and iron.
It’s like Inside Out but he only has the disgust character (and anger).
Typical angry meathead won’t admit they support animal cruelty
@@popermen694and soy
When you turn vegan that’s the “accent” you take on instantly
My script detected the highly valuable keywords "VeganGains," "scream," and "insane" so I rushed here as fast as I could.
Remember that time, Dan actually lost an argument with vegan gains. Good times.
any idea what the video might be called? i love a good Dan L
hes so smug on every topic and a very sore loser
"Im afraid of children"- Vegan Gaines 2023
No shocker there
At least he doesn't like em to much
“I wouldn’t care if dogs gets tortured”- destiny
I never understood that, he was a child once, so how can one be afraid of a developmental stage? Are there people who are afraid of old people and teenagers too? The way it sounds, “I’m afraid of children” like it’s another species or an alien, bizarre.
Plz. don't tell anyone- he's also terrified of vageen
@@taraji_bbro some people terrified of death and unable to look at their own future are afraid of old people.
Did Destiny lose a bet to VG years ago? Did it obligate him to monthly talks for the next two years or something? Why would anyone voluntarily subjugate themselves to that voice?
We're doing it
Well these random debates that VG does is free content cause he's always getting rolled which is funny to see and it's better than another vegan debate
Oh no vegan gains
More like vegan _losses_ 🙌 hiyoo
Steroid gains
@@conquistador-7526wait… I know you don’t have any experience with the iron, but you can’t be implying VG is juicing lmao.
@@trapOrdoom Vegan Gains is juicing your mom.
:(
It’s excruciating to listen to this person to try to complete even one thought.
Idk destiny feels pretty bad faith at times in the conversation. Saying animal brains are completely different to humans, then turning around and saying fetus brains have all "the same parts" is a bit silly. The brains of humans and animals are much closer than he thinks. I'd be interested to see what he thinks about killing apes/monkeys since they have strikingly similar brains to us.
@@xObscureDarknesse was def bad faith in this convo def one of his worst debates I don’t think any of them were right tbh
@@philosphorustell that to a monkey and see if that makes up for it's cognitive incompetence.
The biggest difference between human and non human primate brains is that only human brains work.
It's so cringe how uncomfortable people are with the fact that humans are incomprehensibly more cognitively capable.
It's the same as America bad. Humans not smart.
Grow up.
Wow ur so smart I bet u complete thoughts so good bro congrats bro
He is completely overwhelmed by the distinction bewteen "Can Speak Language" and "Has the capacity to speak language"
10:40 Destiny wanted to argue that a newborn will eventually learn a language therefore the argument is ridiculous but he realized it’d be validating pro-life arguments about unborn children eventually developing into fully formed children 😂
VG always getting straight into the meat and potatoes of these debates
😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣 I see what you did there.
Truly ready to grill Destiny
Vegan meet*
😂😂😂😂
A term Destiny might want to use in the future is to talk about the "architecture" of the brain and not the "structure". Vegan Gains is being anal that things with different physical forms are "structurally" different, but you could clarify saying the brain becomes "physically" different but the "architecture" of the brain is set in stone at 20-28 weeks with all the lobes and cerebrum and cortices and whatever.
Interesting, thanks!
as usual, a Destiny debate ends with me wondering if anyone is going to ever be able to explain to the other person how wrong they are
I mean Destiny often articulates it well from other person's perspective and his own often in the same debate the problem is when people have a career that relies on having a specific opinion, which is almost everyone he argues with, they are most likely too audience trapped to ever concede or change world view
@@NovaTheVERminYeah, I think he often does well trying to explain his position to someone. Only activist types tend to be the lost cause who's livelihoods depend on staying on their position.
You know what's wild? Vegan Gains thinks he actually won... it's mind blowing
He's not getting any animal protein. His brain is lacking nutrients, he's clearly an idiot cause of it
In 47:37 is CLEAR win for VG. Destiny do this always when he losing debate, he start his stupid mumbling rant: "YeA SHuRe, I gUeS sO etc." in attempt to ridicule opponent (clear ad hominem), in hope that gullible fans like you, take it as "haha destiny WIN destiny so smart that he don't take VG fool serous, haha desteny smart, VG stupid" .
He thinks that every time he talks to Destiny
VeganBrain thinks he won any interaction he's in.
These conversations are free owns for him
VG is the embodiment of "I read this in an article shared by this Facebook group I'm in so now I'm going to talk down to you with the confidence of someone who has a PHD in the medical field"
@@heartillery3930so what's the excuse for this debate? If he had a study he was familiar with he should be able to take some harder stances or make better arguments
This guy is the definition of chronically online. The way he talks about babies, it’s like he’s only seen them on the internet
@@heartillery3930 I'm not accepting this answer. If you read a study on something, it's important enough for you to take to memory, and if you can't articulate yourself in a debate that's on you at that point. Honestly it sounds like VG just doesn't care, which is fine, as long as he doesn't go around proselytizing (thank you for spelling help nice stranger)
@@heartillery3930 The bigger recurring problem with VG are the studies he doesn't use. i.e. all of the ones that disagree with his conclusions.
@@heartillery3930right but no study says that kids don’t have capacity for language before two. Because the real world has shown that to not be true. So he’s obviously saying things without any study. Some guy just told him that and he’s running with it. Or he misremembered what the guy said. Either way his confidence is insane.
With vegan gains its always the same.
*VG*: Hey Destiny I just had a question unrelated to veganism
*2* *minutes* *later*
*VG*: So anyway lets debate veganism.
Rinse & repeat for 5 years
*VG*: VG Leaves a Voicemail about wanting to talk about veganism.
*VG*:VG Leaves Another Voicemail about wanting to talk about veganism.
*VG*:"Listen Destiny we don't have to talk about veganism,we can talk about the weather,how your feeling & Veganism!!!"
It helps us track the cognitive decline at least.
@@scantrontheimmortalthat's the sub 70 IQ summary of this debate, as always the low IQ people of dgg love liking it
@@EdgarFriendlysCivicsTeacherof destiny sure
@@brandonsobremisana6681 what video did you watch?
"Destiny, can we have a cosmic sceptic vegan debate?"
"We have vegan debate at home, honey."
Underrated comment
lol the animal ethics debate with cosmic skeptic didn’t go so well for destiny
@@joshh5353 Cosmic sceptic lost the debate with veganism irl. He couldnt keep doing it without his health deterioating, so he quit and went back to fish & meat.
@@r4nowo cosmic skeptic not being able to do the diet himself is not an indictment on veganism as he has explicitly said.
@@joshh5353 what he sais is completely irrelevant. If he felt good being on an entirely plant based diet he would've stuck with it. He just lied to save face & minimize hatred.
Vegan gains made a two reaction videos to cosmic sceptics no longer vegan announcements. And while unhinged, I can sort of empathize with his frustration with the intellectual dishonesty.
This week long term vegan Hitomi mochizuki also announced her quitting the lifestyle due to health reasons. So many are quitting due to the same reasons.
why does he keep crashing Destiny's discord and get owned every time 😂
Because he's so braindead, he doesn't realise he's getting bodied.
he's unhinged
If iron sharpens iron then diamond must sharpen mud way quicker! -VG probably
VG is def unhinged but destiny lost this debate. His position is confusing and he clearly has a hard time trying to balance his pro choice position and pro fuck animals position.
Destiny didn't win this debate. Say what you want about VG, at least he took a clear stance- whereas Destiny's position is oddly vague which seems intentional so he doesn't have to engage with name the trait. He knows there's not a good answer to name the trait, so he just avoids it entirely.
I think VG has it backwards. Infants initially CAN differentiate sounds early on in all kinds of languages until they get so used to hearing their own native language (the one they’re exposed to most) that they can only differentiate sounds in their native language. Then they become language specific learners-That happens at about 1 year of age
This is called universal phoneme sensitivity if you're curious
Yeah, babies can start communicating with you via sign language around 6 months old. They understand words and concepts then but that's roughly when they develop their coordination enough to use signs. I THINK, correct me if I'm wrong, but communicating more than just hard constinants is usually closer to 1 year. I know we taught our kids how to sign since speaking is harder and develops later so that lets them communicate with us at an earlier age.
A smooth brain vs wrinkled brain is structurally different. The wrinkles are part of the "structure" of the brain. Even minute differences such as the thickness of the cortex are considered structural differences. I only know this because I've read studies on structural differences between different brains recently lol.
I don't typically accuse Destiny of debate tactics, but I'm starting to notice a pattern whenever we have the monthly vegan debate with Vegan Gains. Destiny tends to lean on the ambiguity of the topic when responding to certain questions to avoid taking an actual position on the topic. One of the commonly used phrases he'll deploy is "I don't know I'm not 100% sure that's even true, I'd have to go back and look". When he deploys this phrase, it's so he can avoid taking a hard stance in either direction, which is pretty frustrating. I believe the main reason he still debates Vegan Gains on veganism is because he can drag him through the weeds pretty easily, where as he completely avoids vegan debates with people like Avi because he knows he won't be able to drag Avi through the weeds as easily as Richard. I wish VG knew he's being dragged around in every debate he has with Destiny, but he seems pretty unaware every time.
What a ridiculous take.. You'd rather have a person lie about their knowledge on a certain subject just so they take a particular, unfounded stance? The only reason i can think of as to why you'd want the other person to do this is because you know that if they take an unfounded stance, you can pick them apart easier, which leads me to believe that you're one of those people that just argue for the sake of being right.
@@Jimmerttmy claim is that he's lying by not taking a hard stance, claiming he isn't 100% sure is the lie/debate tactic.
@@BouncinBrandon It's a pointless one at that..
@@franklingoodwinisn't destiny a "I'll treat you the way you treat me" type of person?
@@Jimmertt Why does Destiny never go back and look after he says "idk I'm not sure I'd have to go look it up"? If he's not using it to avoid taking a stance, then why doesn't he look into it and take a stance? It's pretty frustrating. It took like, months of him saying he's not sure Nick is that antisemitic and he doesn't know if he'd go as far as to call Nick a nazi. That went on for MONTHS without him going back and looking into the question "Is Nick actually antisemitic?". He just kept saying he's not sure when the information was totally available. It's not like the Kanye stuff was the first time anyone ever thought "holy shit this Nick guy is ACTUALLY sincerely a neo-n4z1, isn't he?"
I started speaking actual words even before i turned 1 year old, but I guess according to Vegan Gains, I didn't know what noises I made from my mouth. Good to know
Most kids should be able to say a few words by 1 and they bond with caretakers before that they have to be able to hear differences in voices almost right away. His whole argument is that you shouldn't eat animals because they might be like infant smart
@@AFoxNamedSly how many dog and orangutan abortion clinics are there?
In my family, if children have not start speaking simple words after they had become 1 year old there was something wrong with them.
Yeah, my 1 year old niece can at least yell “mama!” and “dada!”, and knows the sign language for “milk” and “all done”, and has had that capability for a bit.
But also, knowing something and being able to communicate it are two different things.
@@ashleigh9659most vets will perform an abortion on a dog.
I like how Vegan Gains brings up that the brain isn't fully developed until around 25 to use in the argument but has absolutely no clue what it's doing between birth and 25. For anyone that's wondering, the difference is the number and efficiency of synaptic connections. So essentially when you're a child the brain makes a load of those connections and kinda doesn't pay much mind to whether or not they're useful. When you're about 10-12 it switches to pruning those connections, getting rid of the useless ones, which makes the brain more efficient. It can only do this during NREM sleep btw, so make sure if you're in that age group you get plenty of sleep. There is a massive difference between the brain of a child and that of an adult, but it's not a structural difference large enough that you can see it on a scan.
Lol when these two get together it's always funny as hell.
I swear to god VG has the most annoying nasal twang of any orbiter...
My 6 month old recognizes my voice looks towards me and smiles whin I say his name, he also laughs when I use a silly voice. What he's saying about phonetic differentiation is on it's face absurd for anyone who has experience being around infants/toddlers
Wow monkeys laugh at humans too…
Every time a new VG debate drops I have to mentally prepare myself for his comically condescending conversation style while being so absurdly wrong. I can’t wait for this one.
NAHH DUDE VG LITERALLY BEGGED DESTINY TO SHOW HIM A PICTURE THAT PROVED DESTINYS POINT LOL
This is exactly how I felt when I saw the video and boy did it not disappoint lmao
Took me all day to gather the willpower
Will at least estate an objective rational thing about what he said not him himself that's just an ad hominem
WHERE'S Critical thinking? Btw there's a lot of resources MIT Open courseware is one
This guy claims to be a liberal but want's to use being gay as an insult smh
Many liberals do that unfortunately. They body shame,virgin shame and insult others sexuality. We all gotta do better
He hates himself for being gay
Michael Kevin Kearney could ask "Whats for dinner" at four months old and could read at eight months. The current record for speaking is seven weeks.
Lol If he seriously thinks anything below 2 years can’t tell the difference between spoken words and banging on the table then he should never speak about kids ever again. 😂 It’s so idiotic and immediately shows he’s literally never been around a baby.
I think suggesting that something like a cow probably doesn't experience things like pain "because different than a person" is equally idiotic
Luckily, he's sterile
@@druski888they experience pain but they probably don't have a sense of self. Most of the suffering we as human experience from physical pain is mental suffering associated with it. It's why Buddhist monks can light themselves on fire and calmly meditate while they burn to death. That "I" feeling of being a particular someone is where suffering comes from. Physical pain is just stimulus response, even plants do that, and I don't see vegan gains advocating for all humans to starve so we can avoid hurting plants.
@ForeverMasterless A noxious response to stimuli is definitely not equatable to a conscious experience of pain. Applying the same harm to a variety of animals will give you a variety of responses.. some may retaliate, some may yelp, some will flee from you, etc. So clearly there is some level of subjective experience there that is distinguishable from a plant. It also seems like you're suggesting the ability to ignore pain is exclusive to humans, which definitely isnt true
Since you want to shift the goal post to "sense of self", how exactly do you define it and how do you measure it? You can't just redefine suffering to suit your argument, or conflate physical suffering with mental suffering. what is this vague "I" feeling and how do you know animals don't have it when they can clearly display their own preferences and dislikes as we can? This also doesn't address the issue of humans who undoubtedly don't have the mental capacity of the monk from your example.. Are you cool with people eating a human who is cognitively indistinguishable from a pig?
@@ForeverMasterlessI’m not sure I agree. They may not have the same understanding of consciousness as we do but they definitely experience self “mental pain”. Farmers will purposely slaughter the cows in a separate area because they’ll freak out when they see other cows getting slaughtered. Lol It’s pretty freaking creepy and sad. Hell I remember my pops getting ready to slaughter a chicken and the thing just did long exhausted screech over and over. Btw just so we’re clear I eat meat in literally every meal and I think this vegan gains guy is a smug idiot.
We entering an erra where there is no winner in debates no more … they both just be wrong 😂🤦🏻♂️
Every time i consider becoming vegan, VeganGains is always there to convince me not to. Thanks man, i appreciate it.
Good, intellectually dishonest meat riders are not good for the movement anyway.
@@brandonsobremisana6681that means you don’t actually care about animals. If you did, everyone would be good for the movement.
Gonna need a lot of supplements and an ass load of cash
@@J.P_INC. that’s just wrong lmao
Pretty dumb way to navigate one's life. Same shit as saying I won't be against war/r*pe because there's that one youtuber guy who''s anti war who I don't like and doesn't convince me. The intellectual dishonesty hurts my brain.
I’m a simple man. I see VG vs Destiny, I click instantly! 😂
Holy shit has vegan ever been around a 2 year old? I have a 2 year old and the kid can speak sentences and have simple conversations let alone distinguish between a cup slamming and my voice.
No…he’s afraid of them. He really is the most awful person.
Vegan Gains is the most committed to the “I’m smug and wrong at the same time” personality
That's his Vegan way! 😉👍
Theres no way Vegan Gains isn't a paid actor from big meat, he is too perfect at putting even the most sympathetic person off of any point he’s making with the low energy dribble coming out the tofu between his ears he calls a brain
holocaust in first 5 secs you know it gonna be good
jebaited
VeganGains sounds so incredibly soy when he gets irritated lol
So.... Always
@@theimmortal4718 yeah
Seeing Vegan Gains' name in a video title makes me really excited about the hilarity that I'm about to witness while simultaneously filling me with dread because I'm going to have to listen to him talk.
🤓
I'm mere minutes into this debate, and I already want to scream at the screen. Two year old children can form their own sentences (not sophisticated sentences, but sentences nonetheless). _Much, much_ younger children (less than a year old) can learn and use basic sign language _in response to their parents' _*_verbal_*_ prompts/questions._ In what galaxy does a two-year-old not know the difference between a cup hitting a table and someone talking? How would that even be possible without a disability?
What about a 1-month old? Are you actually annoyed with Vegan gains or do you want to be annoyed with him because you want him to be wrong about veganism being the morally better choice
VeganGains "2 year olds are basically rocks, do know anything"
But when my sister in law says "where is uncle eddy" to my 1 year & 4 month neice she points at me & says "unga" laughs & starfishes her hands at me
Has VeganGains ever been around an infant?
I think the only reason he talks to desinty is because his diet makes his heart rate really low. So to stay alive he monthly needs to spik his heart rate up.
I think we can differentiate between a stimulus-response to noxious stimuli and the conscious experience of pain. We can also differentiate between a conscious experience of pain and the cognitive awareness that "I" am experiencing that pain. It may well be the case that most creatures have a conscious experience of pain but lack a self-narrative or autobiographical memory sufficient to understand that they are experiencing it. However, the lines between these kinds of awareness are blurry and it would be better to think of it like a contiguous spectrum of awareness approaching a concrete linguistic self-narrative stored in autobiographical memory. Certain animals do exhibit the rudiments of this type of awareness and dogs are certainly one of them. Dog brains are more similar to human brains that most species in that they have relatively larger frontal cortices which are responsible for language comprehension and self-awareness. They are able to attach significance to their own names and associate their name with their own self. Suggesting that dogs do have a rudimentary self-awareness, perhaps even more developed than other animals like cats. Although some avian species like corvids and aquatic species like porpoises do exhibit similar characteristics, it is difficult to see how chickens or trout have anything similar.
When my 11 month old first said "dada" she was really just mimicking the sound of a cup hitting the table.
I love that this is a quarterly event
8:20 there is no way gains actually believes this. A 1 year old child will literally cry if they hear a scary noise verses be happy and laugh when their mom is playfully talking to them. Somebody please clear this confusion for me because i feel like i missed something.
His position is that those responses are not unlike how a pet dog would react in similar scenarios. The dog will be afraid of scary noises and happy when interacting with known/beloved humans. Vegan Gains is trying to point out an inconsistency in Destiny's reasoning, as he won't admit the dog is having a "real" conscious experience based on observation, but will do it for the human baby.
If Destiny did admit the dog is deploying a conscious experience and truly "feeling" like a human, then he would need to extend the same to pigs, cows, chickens, and other animals. (Which we do have a lot of evidence of screaming and being afraid at factory farms and slaughterhouses).
@@VGMoose thats great that you say thats what his position is but thats not the argument he was making.
@@VGMoosehe says they cannot tell the difference between the cup verses a person talking. Like almost word for word.
@@biggriff9220 Vegan Gains believes the baby has similar conscious experience to dogs and other farm animals. He says that several times. It's Destiny who compares dogs to inanimate objects.
@@VGMoose I understand that part but he is not saying that in this part of the video, he is specifically making the claim that a baby is unable to see the differences between noises.
>Heavily debating the brains of infants
>is scared of being around infants
Wtf am I listening to? He doesn’t even know how infants behave
Vegan gains calling a debate “cringe” is extremely ironic
As a vegan I really appreciate these debates 😂. Keep it up Richard you're so close to making a good point.
He’s made plenty of good points. In order for destiny to be consistent with his worldview he has to say it’s morally ok to have sex with animals and genocide people with Down syndrome
@@freaked._ Definitely don't aggree with Destiny here obviously. But Richards keeps doubling down on the same moot points.
@@freaked._no he didn’t that’s just what his dumbass fanbase like you say
This is a fantastic example of why people without kids and no experience in child development shouldn't be allowed to have opinions about kids and abortion
Terrible point
@@henrikrodriguez3873 A two month old baby can recognize their parents voices. Not having enough experience with kids to even know this extremely basic thing automatically invalidates a person's opinion on any politics/kids/families crossover topic
My brain mistakes the rot for dopamine with these chats
I've hate watched so many of these Vegan Gains debates but this time I'm starting to feel proud of him. He's gone his entire life without realizing he has a learning disability, and actually been pretty successful along the way.
I wish vegan gains looked better in these debates. I wouldn't mind more people being vegan, so steak prices could go down a little. Buying a half cow for around 1350 when it was 900 4-5 years ago.
The chemistry between you two is shockingly great.
Always in for a good laugh
So the bi-annual Vegan Gains debate is now monthly?
My 6 month old definitely recognizes her own name… and can sign. the fact he thinks a kid can’t understand different sounds until 2 is insane lmao.
Did you mean sing? Or gesture? Cause if you're kid is already signing contracts and closing deals at six months old that's some wild shit.
@@LunarLocust I think they mean sign language. It’s easier to teach kids ASL than verbal English.
@@deriznohappehquite just shut up and let me have this
Vegan gains the same guy who said that when he sees a baby in a stroller he wants to stomp on it until it’s blood and pulp…
Crazy how these lunatics always preach about how you shouldn't harm animals, and then go off the rails into a violent rage at the drop of a dime.
...and I remember that too
Out of context. Dggers should know better
He was meming. That said that's not my type of humor and he's weird for that.
@@heartillery3930there is truth behind satire... The way vg was looking in that vid, it didn't look like satire to me
what is the song playing in the last 3 minutes?
Where’s the piano when you need it
My little brother could speak full, complex sentences at 1yrs old. Could read/write fairly coherently at 2. He taught himself how to read. Yes, nobody taught him how to read, he just started reading out loud one day and we were all like "wait, you can read?". If that isnt "capacity for language", nothing is, and genocide is universally okay.
I learned how to read at about 2.5 years old and literally nobody believes me
Yeah my kids were reading Dr. Seuss by 2
I was already using far right dog whistles at 2 years old.
"One fish, two fish, white fish, 'fellow white' fish."
" He taught himself how to read. Yes, nobody taught him how to read"
How is this even possible? How would he be able to correspond letters with sound without being taught?
Maybe he saw someone else read out words loudly.
Damn Destiny, going off and anthropomorphizing humans again!
It's so sad, there would actually be a very interesting debate to be had on this subject but VG is even more "debate-brained" than Destiny to advance any actual argument.
There are significant structural changes that happen in the post-natal brain. Significantly is the process of adolescent synaptogenesis and neurogenesis that happens in the frontal cortex. This is part of the development of the social brain and the concrete sense of a social self. Also of significance, is the subsequent pruning of unused synapsis following both pre-natal neurogenesis and adolescent neurogenesis. This pruning process helps to refine conceptual understanding and solidify successful pathways and behaviors. I think the other guy was trying to distinguish between Classical and Operant Conditioning, which Piagetian childhood development places at the Sensorimotor Stage around 6 months.
im suprised more people aren't noticing how much the vegan guy sounds like mordecai from the regular show lol
Wait, when he keeps saying "20 week old fetus," is he talking about a literal fetus in utero, or a ~4 month old baby? Because he keeps kind of moving around on what ages he things support his argument.
A foetus is only in utero. I should imagine he means that. Although, he obviously just wants to justify to himself that killing babies is fine….even outside of utero.
@@pommiebears Right. That's why I'm so confused. He keeps bouncing around so much that I can't tell if he's misspeaking when he's using the word "fetus" or if he's shifting the goal post.
I love when the vegan declares victory after the 40 minute mark based on a picture he tells Destiny to open, the picture shows with labels how both stages of development have all the same segments, and the vegan is like "oh, uhhhhhhh I mean that other picture with no color or labels, let's just look at shapes because going any further than a cosmetic observation of shapes will 100% torpedo my argument, and I already took a victory lap".
oh god the pause every time he doesn't know what to say when his argument isn't the gotcha he expected it to be.
A classic Vegan Pains moment. Some people never change
Here we go again… navigating the autistic minefield that is vegan gains’ mind. Surely he’ll finally make a convincing argument…right? 😨
Dude just needs to spend 1 hour at a daycare jfc
He's commit a felony in that time. His house is full of holes in the walls
Vegan gains is a guy you'll see on a true crime channel for some horrific homicide. No doubt in my mind
2 of the annual vegan debates so soon? We're really out of content lol
Vegan: This time I'm gonna bring up the fact that 24 week old fetus's can't solve a rubiks cube yet, but a dog with is olfactory receptors could, in theory, but because it can't use its thumbs like we do, and thats because of all of the meat people keep giving them, and suppressing their rights to vote and adopt cute asian babies to raise. Oh I got him this time!!!
Destiny is right on 95% of things and I'm not even a vegan but his stance on what constitutes moral consideration is so clearly ad-hoc rationalized lol
I wish he would just be as honest as he normally is and say “I don’t want to change my lifestyle in order to morally consider non-humans” 😂
Lmao destiny searched it up and it literally said by 2nd trimester the structure is almost identical to the human brain.
Vegan gains: NO NO!!!! LOOK AT THE PICTURE! YOU SEE HOW THEY LOOK DIFFERENT?!?
I was speaking simple sentences when I was a 1 yr old. This guy's brain is dying.
I know like the 2-3 thing is for memory retention but sound differentiation is a bit off
Why does Vegan Gains continue to debate Destiny when he always gets obliterated?
He probably truly thinks he wins every debate
Ok,im sorry to say Destiny is off in the night here. Saying that a dog cant tell the difference between a hard or soft object is such a ridiculous statement. He is either trolling, or has never been around animals besides humans his whole life.
You cannot rely on your personal perception of your own pet's behaviour to measure the cognitive abilities of animals. A dog hearing a sound they have conditioned to associate with a certain behaviour or activity is different than a person actually conciously recognising what traits of the object making the noise can be inferred from the sound being made. You have no way of showing that a dog actually understands that "walk" is a verb, and not just that the word always precedes going outside.
@@XSpamDragonX I doubt that a dog has an understanding of the word verb. However, all language is assigning meaning to noises. Then organizing those noises.
When i tell my dog to go outside and grab her ball, we are playing fetch today, and she does so, this is a strong indicator that she has at least some understanding of basic language. The alternative is that she is randomly grabing the ball out of her toy bin, and not grabing her rope, or her floaty toy, or her donut plushie, is unlikely. Also I have worked with her so that she knows the specific names of different toys, and knows the specific names of games.
She also has a set of talking buttons that she can use to talk to me, and she puts basic sentences together with them.
Oh! Also you should look into the talking button phenomenon that is on the rise! And read what a lot of the language psychologist are writting about it!
There, is that enough evidence for you?
@@shadowdante1102ell no. You missed the part where animals can recognize words to have meanings. So walk = go outside. But animals don’t have contextual understand for when we use these words for lack of a better term. We can’t say to a dog “in one hour we walk” it hears the walk part but none of the other context.
@@Gorpos How do you know that is the case?
I always find myself taking a deep breath whenever I see another vegan gains debate pop up in my ~feed~
My freshly 1 year old baby knows my name and the names of objects, and has known this since 5-6 months. The idea she can’t differentiate sounds until 2 years is so ridiculous on its face that it deserves no acknowledgement
34:27 The folds of a brain are called gyri and the grooves are called sulci. These morphological features are produced by the folding of the cortex, the part of our brain responsible for higher cognitive processes like memories, language and consciousness. Reptiles and birds have a smooth-surfaced brain termed a lissencephalic brain. As we look at the surface of the brains of mammals, we see that those brains contain these convolutions. Gyrencephalic brain animals, by contrast to lissencephalic brains , have deeply folded brains with gyri (ridges) and sulci (depressions or furrows). They are found, for example, in cats, dogs, pigs, whales, elephants and primates including humans. Brain gyri and sulci serve two very important functions: They increase the surface area of the cerebral cortex and they form brain divisions. Increasing the surface area of the brain allows more neurons to be packed into the cortex so that it can process more information. The only animal on the list of wrinkled brain animals we generally eat are pigs, only in certain regions do people eat dogs, cats, whales and elephants with the last two being generally protected animal species and it's often socially unacceptable to kill them. Furthermore with cats and dogs most first world cultures don't eat them cause of their symbiotic relations to humanity, lastly I imagine the amount of eaten primates is extremely small. literally the only mass eaten animal that counts is pigs and even then gyri and sucli do not determine the difference in semantic, conceptual, or other higher thought abilities humans have. It just helps pigs have better memory for example.
this took me all of 15 minutes to learn, vegans are coping and destiny was not prepared at all for this one.
furthermore the difference between dogs and humans seem to be gyri and sculi and overall brain size, interesting we have the same structures.
also 47:36 I found three peer reviewed studies talking about how new born infants show semantic understanding, object permance and self awareness pretty soon after birth. It takes only a cursory archive search guys.
I feel like Richard hasn't been around many children--luckily.
He doesn't leave his house
Perfect! If you guys were both immortal you’d continue this until the end of time.
I know a dude that was speaking in sentences at 9 months old. The claim that babies cannot even tell the difference between a cup slamming and speech before 2 years old is truly wild.
the claim that animals don't think or feel is equally wild
one is because of a lack of time spent around babies.. the other is someone being extremely intellectually dishonest
@druski888 true
48:20 guy who thinks theres nothing wrong with zoophilia wants to accuse a vegan of zoophilia, lmao
Destiny’s takes on zoophilia are crazy.
@@redvelvet9215 Hes consistent with meat eating atleast but yeah
Vegan Gains making pro-infanticide arguments was not on my Bingo Card
Oh wait, there it is
He hates people, including his girlfriend. Vegan gains could easily end up with a life sentence in the next few years
An epic drinking game would be to take a shot every time Vegan Gains threw around the word "holocausting" in any of Destiny's debates. He cannot resist the urge.
Listening to Destiny argue with an adult whose brain is entirely smooth is difficult to sit through.