Just my 2 cents here. I have PILOT2ATC for the moment and the offline voices from BEYOND ATC do not sound worst then the voices from P2ATC from what I can hear from the sample. Pro's for BEYOND ATC Using offline voices no additional cost. No microsoft speech recognition is used, for a non native English speaker a big plus. The say no fps loss, big plus. All ground movements , pushbacks, taxing, all handled by Beyond Atc, no taxing aircraft run you over, no aircraft landing when you are on the runway, because all controlled by Beyond Atc In my opinion these are all big plus points. So 60 $ is a very good price To compare, you can use the program driving a Fiat , with no additional cost, or you can drive a Rolls Royce , but then you have to pay for the luxurious ride. That is the way the world works. Again, these are my personal thoughts, yours may be different,and that is totally fine. A side note here, There is a company that sells a 737/600/700/800/900 And for each version with the same cockpit layout , a few minor details aside , you have to shelf out the dollars, they do not even give a discount when you own one version already So ' 60 $ in my opinion is a bargain. Certainly because you have the option of no additional cost ,when happy with the offline voices
If you talk about offline voices, lets dig in the real greedy part of BATC. I use also atc software for years and along the time, I ve bought some quality SAPI voices. Cereproc is an example of those. I use them flawlessly in all the software you mentionned, not even talking about SLC or FSFO. WHY BATC DONT ALLOW SAPI VOICES ?? For me its clear : they say "pay for our voices or get crap ones".
@@homasas4837I bet those cereproc and the software you run them with cost you an arm and a leg. I know i used to run VoxAtc back in the day. Idk man seems to me 150 offline voices and some premium time for the others is not bad for 60$. Got less for more money back in the days of FSX so idk... about that greediness and exploitation of niche software.
I agree with your take, you get what you pay for in this world. that's just how it works. New technology is always crazy expensive. I remember when VCRs first came on the seen they were almost 2000 bucks and that was decades ago. Tech has always been expensive and if you want to ride the cutting edge then your gonna have to pay to play it is literally that simple. It has always been that way. I think what Beyond ATC has presented is more than fair, I can't wait for the release. Not only that you are getting two products for the price of one, ATC and Traffic Injection and to put the cherry on top it will all be married together costing low FPS, so come on. Some people just want have their cake and eat it to, they wanna pay for the Fiat but want the Rolls, so they complain. That's how I see it.
I'm fine with the pricing if it works as well as in their demos. That's the part that I'm most interested in: how well the traffic will be, how well will the ATC be, and also FPS impact
Ok the default offline voices don’t sound too bad if the example used in this video is what we will get. So thank you so much for giving us an example of what default offline voices would sound like. I was afraid it would sound like some robotic voice. Other reviewers should give examples like this cuz they definitely are putting a bad representation for BeyondATC. Thanks again Gav.
@@antonbatura8385 The speech recognition uses up time 'units' I believe, so assuming this is true as long as you have units available you should still have speech recognition. Likely offline voices with user speech recognition won't cost too much, but will still have *some* ongoing costs.
The pricing looks pretty reasonable to me for value promised with this system. And I'm glad to know the fidelity of actual ATC operations is the same across all 3 models...it's only the sound of the voices that's different, which to me is no big deal.
To be honest, I was super excited for this because VATSIM can be pretty quiet and there are a lot of people flying unrelistic flights on there, plus a lot of people who don't really know how to communicate to ATC breaking immersion even further. But only the premium voices would feel right after using VATSIM for 6 months now, so it would just be too expensive for myself as I do about 40 hours of flight time a month. Completely understand why they are that price, so do not think they are on a money grab and it is not a criticism, but it has made me realise I am not willing to pay for the experience I initially wanted.
AI model pricing will decrease over time, much like anything else. There's no need to worry about it. I appreciate the pricing model they have chosen. Offering options is commendable. I also like the flexibility to dip in and out as desired. This approach is sensible and seems fair. Best of luck to them.
Been following BeyondATC since development was announced. Incorporating believable voice and injection capabilities into a single model is very attractive. Additionally, the "use as you choose" option provides a nice ability to select the utility of the app (and therefore the per flight cost) based on the value and quality desired for a given flight. This becomes a definite buy for me If both the voice and injection models perform as hoped.
Something very important that was missed here that some others picked up on is that you speaking back to the ATC uses your transmission time. So there is no 'offline/free' use of this. Once that initial transmission time you're given is used up you're stuck to using number presses and so may as well just stick to msfs default atc IMO.
I wasn't aware of this. How disappointing. Speech recognition is something that is widely available for free, even windows has this capability built-in.
windows has mediocre free speech recognition that needs to be trained. BATC uses AI speech recognition that doesn't need training and has reportedly been used by heavy-accented speakers with no problem. I'm not disappointed at all, especially since the credits used to interpret my voice is so tiny I can use it for a very long time. I think once this app comes out and people see streamers using it, it's going to change their minds very quickly.
@@Skalekul The default voice recognition in windows kind of sucks - for this they are using higher quality ai voice recognition which uses cloud services.
Excellent breakdown. Basic voices pricing is quite reasonable and you're right on premium eventually going down in terms of demand/supply dynamic. Even offline is just miles ahead of the OEM MSFS ATC. Can't wait for this to release!
Very reasonable solution. The pure fact that there is a one-and-done option AT ALL in a new product in 2024 is already an unexpected positive surprise in a world where everything is leaning towards subscription-only.
The premium voices sound incredible, just the price is insane. $3-4 per flight!? Additionally my worry would be how long the servers stay up for, if not many people take to this program, which is possible, given the cost, how long before they shut their parts of the servers down, and you are stuck with nothing at all.
I am fine with the free tier with medium for some accents. Day one purchase for sure. The offline tier sounds better anyway so there is rarely need to buy that pro time. I have ATC chatter for the AI and that is good enough for me.
There will always be people who expected the program to cost $5 or something ridiculous. People have no idea of the costs for development sometimes. I'm still buying it, purely because I want to avoid landing on a runway in the same direction as AI traffic is taking off..
Paying a dollar a flight is just not an option... This is not about initial investment, I would have paid double or even triple for a good service if it was a one time deal... This is far too expensive down the line... I get why it is required, but to me that just means the technology is not ready yet.
I like the pricing strategy. As I do not fly very frequently it would be way more expensive for me to pay on a monthly basis. But this pricing model makes it very interesting for me to use and use it where it matters for me, that is when simulating passenger flights.
I think this actually a fantastic pricing model! Unlike a subscription based model, where you pay the same regardless of how much you use it, this is very sensible, in that you owuld only pay for the basic/premium voices as you use them. As someone who only does maybe 3 or 4 flights in a month, I think it would absolutely be worth it going for the premium price packs. Very excited to see your beta test flights when thy come out!
Pricing model is great, program looks great. Definitely an improvement and as per other comments seeing here, acceptable - I personally would've expected some sort of subscription model or something similar for the professional voices.
Thank you for this detailed explanation of how the cost will change with different ATC and pilot voices. A much better strategy (than "Say Intentions") to charge your customers a fixed rate and then apply a monthly sub if someone wants to take it Beyond (pun intended). I presume that everything else will remain the same in all packages (offline, basic and premium) i.e. the mechanics of the ATC and how they deal with traffic on the gates, during pushbacks, on taxiways, holding short for planes in front of you, on short final and also on the air.
Awesome stuff. The prices will definitely drop and what's wrong in using offline voices and ai-voices intermittent? If you want to go all the way use premium. If you want to practice use offline. And as said it will definitely become cheaper in the future.
I think once Say Intentions comes out with full IFR compatability I'll go for that. Let's face it, our hobby was never going to be a cheap one especially when we want deeper immersion
So pleased to hear that it's available as a once only payment and I will definitely buy it. I would never consider a subscription based product because I don't use flight simulator enough on a regular basis to justify it. If I didn't use it for 3 weeks I'd still be paying.
Thank you so much for this! A group I sim fly with and I were just talking about this yesterday. Even how BeyondATC marked the last section as 65% off when the math didn't add up. As well as, the way things were explained were a little foggy. I'm looking at this than say intentions. Mainly because I don't need an extra bill in my budget. Heh Looking forward to your Beta testing video(s)! Cheers!
I'm still trying to digest these pricing options. Sure it's well developed....but the option of the 'Premium' package (which obviously offers the highest level of immersion and realism) would be far more expensive, and considerably more than I would like to pay or could afford. And I am still left with the feeling that in the back of my mind I would be thinking "It's good......but then so is Vatsim.....and that's 'Real'. You could ignore 'Beyond ATC'.....but you ignore a 'Vatsim' controller at your peril 🤣
Bear in mind as well that you can change it up whenever you want, from flight to flight. So you might want to go premium on one shorter flight, then offline for a really long flight that might use up a lot of units. or whatever.
Durring a live stream with Asobo studios they mentioned an yet un-announced AI ATC and traffic system. I am curious if this would be an in house MSFS 2024 voice AI ATC. It would make sense since the data streaming to MSFS uses already consumes a vast amount of resources that are pre dedicated to MSFS and Microsoft has spent a ton on AI already so incorporating the two probably wouldn't be to big of an issue to Microsoft where retail costs are truly astronomical for AI services right now.
I feel that ATI may be valuable for the beginners like myself. I really want to learn how to communicate with our traffic control but in the meantime not knowing any of the lingo and especially hearing how fast everyone talks I can never make out with her saying. It'll give someone make me a chance to develop a listening ear to understand they're very fast speech. I am excited about AI for air traffic control but again only as a beginner.
Based on the sample voices I think a) the Offline are better than the Basic b) the Offline voices are great - would not need or use Premium voices Initial cost - not cheap but then the system is a great one. I do not like that currently they only expect to support IFR and for that reason would not buy it. Once it supports VFR (at least in USA and Europe) I will reconsider
Premium voices sound incredible. Love this. Looking so much forward to this addon. But I feel I will be more than ok with offline version. Thank you for the video.
Offline voices ae 150+ US and UK accents, not worldwide. Worldwide offline voices will come later. Presently, only the basic and premium voices are worldwide. As for thoughts on the cost, as you said in the video, it is what it is. The developers are selling extra time at service provider cost, so that is helping the community keep the cost down, albeit still expensive. We just need to wait for the volume of scale to take effect and then prices will drop. You can already see that when buying more time. The more you buy, the cheaper the unit cost. Based on how good the offline voices sound, I plan to use offline for both my aircraft and AI traffic, then use only the minuscule amount of transmission time for push to talk capability. That will last me years before the credits are gone and the best bang for the buck with this app. Lastly, free updates for the lifetime of the product!
Great explanation thanks… but oh dear - excitement quelled. On reflection pay per use is probably better than subscription model, but unless paying £’s per flight I’m going to feel like I’m not getting the full experience and that’s going to leave a bad taste. Hopefully API’s will come down in price fast!
As a casual flight simmer, I'd be more than happy with the offline package. $60 isn't cheap, but the pricing is somewhat understandable. I don't think I'd require any of the "subscription" models for the amount of flying I do these days, but it would definitely be worth the $60 over the standard ATC in MSFS. The subscription model seems fairly reasonable to me, although I can imagine if you spend most days flying in the sim, it would mount up very quickly. As for the SayIntentions product, I think it's a little unfair for people to label the cost as "ridiculous", but for me, especially as a casual simmer, I cannot justify paying that much. The product looks really good and I'd love for it to be part of my MSFS experience, but there's no way I can justify £360 a year for a single addon for something I only dip into every now and then.
Transmission Time is somewhat an unfortunate thing... understandable due to operating cost, but unfortunate. I was hoping for an up-front purchase cost for the product, then a system with a monthly time allowance that would "recharge" at the start of each month for the premium voices. Hit the limit? Well, either switch to the offline model, wait for the monthly recharge, or pay to use the premium voices in-excess of the allotted monthly time. It would be nice to have the premium AI voice program entirely on one's system and therefore able to process/generate the high-fidelity voices locally, thus not costing data online... but we're not there yet. It's still an intensive process that would be very costly especially when running concurrently with an already intensive program like MSFS. Think I'll probably have to stick with VATSIM, for now, despite its occasional frustrations and limitations. Unless, of course, the offline portion of Beyond ATC exceeds my expectations...
The $59.99 price tag includes about $30 of premium voices. I would prefer the option of starting out with just the offline voices. Let me choose to buy basic or premium voices if I want to rather than forcing me to up front. That puts the price of the program at a more reasonable level compared to other add-ons.
I wait for creators like you to share the information on the real product before I really make a decision. I heard the offline voices the first time today and they are OK to me. So maybe I wait for a sale if I like the reviews. 😉
I tried the demo for "Say Intentions" and was quite impressed. That said, $30 a month is too steep for how much I would use it. Since I fly for a living, most of the time when I do flight sim, I prefer to just take an enjoyable VFR flight in a vintage aircraft with no ATC to harsh my mellow. The Beyond ATC model would work much better for me, since I would likely be one the those whose transmission credits would last for years. And, the offline voices sound fine to me. I really only use ATC, like Vatsim, when I stream an IFR flight.
If anyone thinks 60$ is too much for software like this. Imagine back in the days of FSX there was a program similar to this that used TTS called VoxATC and it was priced 60$ as well. We came a long way since then and this is definitely worth it's money in my opinion.
If it is as it seems - accurate ATC communication with good voice recognition (for a small price), then this can work as a really good training tool to increase my RT as well as incorporate it into workload management. As RT skills increase, stepping up to basic and premium for more variation can be done without much effort. This sounds like a really good deal to me. The level of accuracy will be key. I am wondering if variations on levels of difficulty will be incorporated in the future - some ATC controllers being faster or slower, or have english as a second language as well. Increased levels of stress when there is lots of traffic, like you would see on VATSIM would be cool as well. Future stuff though, I expect.
Thank you for the video.... I know I will be using Beyond ATC to help free some FPS with using the FSLTL program, as well to experience a better ATC control through a whole flight... Will not necessary need to use the advance voices. But might use them from time to time. Hope this can be used in VFR later in it development.
I'm not a flight simmer (I only play racing sims), but AI for something like a racing crew chief or pit radio would be cool, maybe even AI commentary as I race 😊
I love the pricing model. Monthly subscriptions? I would never take that as you have to pay full price even if you don’t use it that much during certain periods. That is the reason I also stay away from Navigraph. I’m a retired airline pilot so I’m used to planning and charts (and more like loadsheets and manual fuel planning), but now I just want to fly to relax and discover new planes and regions. If I fly IFR (or VFR) I just use information freely available on the internet, no need for a monthly subscription for something that is not real, just a simulation. I cannot wait for the release of BeyondATC because I miss some immersion during flight and I do hope it will be a wonderful addon for MSFS.
I think you neglected to mention something important … transmission time is also going to be used every time you speak to the controller, for the voice-to-text conversion. So even the “free” offline voices version will eventually require you to buy more transmission time … unless you also forego the ability to speak to ATC with your own voice and instead just send your communications via the mouse and/or keyboard. I think eventually something based upon this kind of AI will provide a truly excellent ATC alternative. But at this moment in time I believe this one is doomed to be far too expensive for most flight simmers, me included.
Great impartial video unlike the other bloke who released an advertising campaign video. I will buy the basic package and use the offline voices as they sound more than reasonable. There is no way though myself or most users for that matter who does lots of flights can afford anything more than the offline voices. This AI voice technology is just not ready or affordable at this time, I just hope their business model wasn’t going to rely on a lot of uptake on that.
I can’t wait to get this. It’s not complicated. It’s pay per use only if you want the higher grade AI voices after the initial price. I’d rather get PilotEdge $180/yr instead of sayintentions at $30/month
This is an enticing add-on to make flights more realistic. I am glad I have an MBA so I can understand the pricing/units set up. 🤔 I do understand the system and the need. My type of flying is mostly from smaller airports (Harrisburg, PA) where traffic is not that intense, so I don't think I'll be using the units as quickly as others may. However, I mostly fly VFR in GA aircraft and I do hope those kinds of flights will be covered/included as well.
That's me out of the BeyondATC hype. Another purchase; another subscription. Getting a bit tired of tying knots together with multiple programs as well. Too expensive for my wallet.
Someone needs to do a head to head comparison between BeyondATC and SayIntentions. Really curious to see what difference there is between programmed responses vs GPT responses, and ofcourse how is traffic injection handled differently.
I really look forward to this application. Sure it may look a bit expensive, but I like what they have showed up to now in the development videos. That said, AI *IS* expensive to use. That is just what it is right now. We are still in the early days of AI in practical use. Just like early computers, early phones. When time progresses, more will come, products get cheaper. So if you want to use the Premium AI voices, yes, you need something in your pockets. It's not fun, but I get why they need to. And if you don't want that cost, go for the offline voices and pay once for this product. Or choose an alternative. FSHud for example. Or the native MSFS ATC. Or Vatsim (recommended!)
While the pricing model is a little complicated, the great thing is it's really flexible and you only pay for what you use, which as a very sporadic user, I think is going to be much cheaper than a regular monthly subscription. I'm all for it. As for the voices, I honestly can't tell the difference between offline and basic, but I do think the premium ones sound great. I would probably settle for the option of using the premium voices for the controllers and offline for AI. That seems to be the best bang for buck, but time will tell. Also, I want to see how people get on with this and Say Intentions over a period of a few weeks, and possibly wait to see what MS announce regarding FS2024 before diving in.
Very useful video as usualGavin. I have really been looking forward to this product but I am detecting a big problem. It seems that the push to talk feature that makes this interactive is ONLY available if you buy the additional subscriptions. Personally I can live with boring voices but real interaction was the whole point of Beyond ATC for me. I fly almost everyday, so if that’s stacking up at $50 pcm or more, it’s just too much. If I can get interaction and push to talk with the basic package, I’ll buy, if not, I’m not sure.
The PTT feature, whilst it will use come 'units', uses a very very small amount of them. Meaning you'll do many hours of flying before you'll need to top them up.
Well, I happen to think they’ve struck the perfect balance on pricing. If the ATC vectors and organises the airspace correctly I honestly don’t really need the premium voices. I mean they’re nice, but the key for me is a functioning ATC.
BeyondATC is Beyond my budget and if we encourage this type of product (certainly not yet like reality), it will be the green light for all the other businesses who take us for wallets, which they empty, either monthly or by package, which ultimately is the same thing and believe me, I'm in advertising!
The offline voices are already great and much better than default ATC. Works for me and totally worth it, if the AI traffic simulation will be as good as it seems. Big nope on the microtransaction route for the Basic/Premium voices, though. That's just as mad as the Sayintentions subscription fee, just in a different guise. I fully understand that the AI tech behind it has running costs but they are too steep for this average consumer.
A complicated picture all round, and even more so when you consider MS/Asobo are looking to improve their ATC offering. All in all, I think US $60 is a bit of a stretch, but that aside, I think their fee model is OK. At the end of the day, they aren't a charity and so it's reasonable to expect them to make a dollar for all of their work, and on-going work they'll need to do to keep current with MSFS as it evolves (think MSFS 2024). That said, I think I'll wait to see what MS/Asobo do with MSFS 2024 before jumping in, but it would be a major improvement indeed to better BeyondATC form what we've seen.
Here's how I see this... The product seems pretty sweet. I would love to get access to it already (is the beta open to anyone who will buy the app?). I am however more of a VFR flyer (using ATC where possible on vatsim) than an airliner flyer, so good VFR support would be very important to me. Does anyone know about the state of that? Anyway... I am very much reminded of any new tech released to the public. It will be expensive (which I think the premium side of things is) to start with and as this kind of method is adopted by competitors, deals will be struck and those savings SHOULD be passed on to us, the paying customer, right? So long as this company has that in their future, i'll be OK with this. Additionally... choice. It's not often so much choice within one package (while still delivering the same functionality which BeyondATC looks to do regardless of the tier you use) is actually presented to the customer these days. Most companies go for the "bleeding edge" and then expect people to pay for it, when a simpler, just as functional tool is available. I'm not sure how much this applies to the flight sim world, but there are plenty of other business sectors where this observation can and has been made. The fact the guys behind BeyondATC have accommodated for the various tastes and financial situations is quite something. I mean... those offline voice blow default ATC out of the water... ON ANY SIM! And by quite a margin I'd say. I'd like to think that as thing progress for this product, the pricing structure will shift... adding even better, more refined perhaps, features at the higher tier and nudging todays bleeding edge down a bit in the pricing structure to reflect the ease and cheapness of providing such a tool. Honestly, so long as a positive moral standing of the company behind this exists at all, we can buy in now to save later, right? No guarantee, of course. Businesses are businesses... some are less money grabby than other and I don't see a track record yet to see what the position long term on this will be for the guys behind this product. As for the $59.99... i'll buy it. It's a lot of money, sure. If there is VFR ATC, i'd daily drive the crap out of it. Mainly on the pleb level of course (as i'm not that plush with the pennies) but damn (!!!) what an improvement it would be to 1) have guaranteed coverage where I fly that reflects the real world (i'm hoping unmanned stations that you tune in to for local traffic will be a thing by the way) and 2) engage in much more natural interactions with non-network ATC due to the (what seems like in the demos) pretty forgiving, robust and versatile voice recognition. As i've mentioned a couple of times in this comment... it all comes down to the VFR side of things. Does anyone know about that at all? This is my initial thoughts as someone who has only ever really seens their demos on their own YT channel. I have no hands-on experience with it at all... but I am excited.
I am actually surprised (in a good way) that there is a fixed price model option. I also think that $60 is reasonable. This is a utility type addon that will affect the sim every time it’s used. I tend to think of it as a “global addon.” Navigraph is more expensive than this. The lower quality voices don’t bother me if procedurally they are correct and varied. The “free” voices will be a big step forward.
I'm disappointed that they couldn't have an option to use windows voice recognition along with the offline voices for the rest. I was impressed their offline voices sounded that good. That would have made it completely free to use after purchase of the basic program. I agree that windows built in voices are bad, but I have tested the built in voice recognition windows provides by writing a letter in notepad while I dictated. It took down everything I was saying with no problem that I could see. There could have been some coding reasons they had to go with a cloud based service to convert the users speech that we don't realize, I don't know. That is my only complaint, otherwise I hope BATC is a success. If BATC is released before MSFS 2024 comes out I will still wait before I will buy it and see if the built in ATC will be better than we have now in FS 2020 and we won't need a third party ATC for a decent experience. Right now I use Pilot2ATC. I really like it except for the crappy built in windows David and Zira voices.
Honestly I think the pricing isnt that bad! If the main difference between the offline voices and basic/premium is just how realistic they sound a lot of people (myself included) would be fine with the robotic sounding voices. The main issue with past ATC applications like Pilot2Atc has been its inability to understand what you're saying. The truth is air traffic controllers are trained to sound robotic in real life anyways lol.
You completely missed that Beyond ATC is a traffic injector & it controls all the AI traffic itself unlike Microsoft & FSLTL which is getting more unreliable with each Microsoft update.. People need to remember that this is at least 2 Programs. A Traffic Injector that handles all AI traffic as well as you so can space out the Landing approaches & NO MORE STUPID GO AROUNDS from the Inbuilt ATC that I always ignore anyway. No more AI Traffic taking off or landing on the opposite runway to what you are departing on & always is the opposite to Flight Radar. I always check FR before I select a Runway in Simbrief. To be fair Simbrief usual gives you the correct runways but get in the game & you have aircraft landing towards you. It didnt always use to be like this. 59$ US is £46 in the UK. Which for what it does & its 2 programs in 1 then as soon as its released its ACTUALLY one of those products I'll buy straight away. I got my Girlfriend too not buy me anything big for Christmas so she can buy me this when its released 🙂. I'll stick to the offline voices as they are fine too me & Im not bothered about the accents. I think the Microsoft voices are fine also but doesnt change. Navigraph unlimited is £70 a yr.
Personally I like the Beyond ATC price model MUCH More than Say Intentions . I don't fly a lot of IFR, so Say Intentions got my attention immediately! Its (say Intentions) cost though for my more casual use is triple what I would want to pay monthly for the 5-10 flights per month I might take and use Say Intentions on. I already pay for Navigraph premium and that will not give up and my budget is cinstrained. I also on really fly in the colder wetter months of the year in the PNW U.S. so paying $30 per month for 4-6 months of use in a year is not an option. On the other side, Beyond ATC approach to buy and use what you need does have strong appeal. That I can also leverage the Beyond ATC management engine and use locally generated voices instead of the pay for voices also appeals. there are still a couple of open questions about whether the $60 upfront cost really allows me to leverage all of the Beyond ATC management functions and just use local speech synth but that answer will come soon, as I am not alone in wanting that clarified. Since I am not flying IFR as much as VFR there is less importance here. But when Beyond ATC can do VFR too, It will likely be a slam dunk for me!!!
Not for me. I have spent enough in-flight simming that I don't want to take out a mortgage on a monthly basis to hear ATC. So good luck to those of you who think it's worth it.
Thank you for the video. This is the first one I have seen demonstrating the voices, and working out the cost per flight. Premium will be a no go for me. Unless they reduce the add on costs, then the cost per flight will not drop, whilst every time I use the Fenix and 737, the average cost per flight is dropping. I didn’t notice much difference between offline and basic voices, so may purchase it and use offline mode when there is no vatsim/ivao coverage. Also I won’t have to load FSLTL anymore
I am really looking forward to this being released as I am planning on using it to be a step towards flying on Vatsim (Not plucked up the courage yet) but apart from that having full coverage rather that spending most of the flight on UNICOM will be very imersive. As I have very limited flight time each month and even then only get to do short (UK) flights I would expect my usage to equate to about $20 per month if using a combination of basic voices for ATC and offline for Traffic which I am OK with it may be a bit steep for some people but that is why they have come up with this pricing model which seems quite flexible.
My kind of flying. Two or three flights a month mostly in the UK. I think Offline voices (UK accent) will be good enough with PPT for my reply. The initial units will probably last a year. So about £20 a year. Be nice if the amount of AI traffic can be controlled as well. I don’t need a full Heathrow experience. £60 upfront and £20 a year not much as hobbies go.
What concerns me here is that their FAQ states that speaking to the AI will require transmission time, and if you wish to use the software without transmission time, you'll be limited to using the UI to make requests. This seems to suggest that if you wish to use the "Push to talk" features, even with the offline voices, eventually you'll run out of transmission time and have to top up. If that is the case, then this software effectively has limited use features that will eventually stop working unless you pay more money. I'm not so sure about this approach tbh.
The vagueness of what a 'transmission unit' actually is, how it's calculated, how monitorable it is for the user etc feels like it's open to abuse. It's referred to as 'units' and 'time', so which is it? Is it seconds? Is it kb of data sent? The whole thing could benefit from being more transparent. Not sure if there's a way to see in real time how your 'transmission time' is decreasing with use. Weights and measures, is what I'm getting at.
Transmission time - oh my god what does it mean? I have no idea what you are talking about!? Any chance to be explained in more details and explanations? Thanks!
I will give it a shot I don't mind the $60 for the program. I average 4-6 flights a month I will try it out and see how quickly I run out of units. If it will last me 2-3 months I can live with the pricing if I am having to spend $20 a month I would rather stick to Vatsim. I think others will agree and if it gets too expensive I feel it will be a short lived program.
4:07 this isn’t actually 100% true that it won’t cost you a penny more if you just use basic according to their FAQs if you want to use the push to talk function as that uses transmission units (albeit described as ‘very small amount’) so eventually unless you want to return to using the UI and lose the PTT function, you will still need to pay more to use the product.
Its a good concept and a good feature and in time will come down in price. I think for the majority cheaper alternatives do a decent enough job that quite a few will stick with them till the pricing comes down as the tech improves
I wonder as well if the partnership between ms and open AI does not open doors for msfs 2024….they will also adapt their ATC- model. But to be honest, I don’t have an issue with the pricing. The dev decides the price and I decide if want to pay for it. There are options within the program to go high or not. For me it is all about immersion.
Hm, sounds like this will bring up the transmission time anxiety. Since this is just the first pass on pricing, I assume they'll also introduce the subscription on the packs or at least an unlimited pack for the streamers who can afford it.
Pilot2atc is the same base price and you only get windows voices by default which are worse than the free BeyondATC but there is a weird psychological effect that because the premium voices exist people will feel bad about the other options. Personally, I will use the premium voices, I don't get to fly every day at best 1-2 flights per week on average so that's quite acceptable to me.
All seems pretty good and reasonable. Been using Say Intentions which is lovely, especially when i threw some random stuff at it today . but to be honest whilst i might be tempted to keep it this month i just cant justify the expense . I fly the fenix but tbh i do a lot of vfr but ill get beyond atc and just hope vfr comes in thr nxt few months. However thnx for this video, if imbhonest i will probably use some of the mid level and premiim sparingly. But i dont😮 feel as if off-line are too bad . At least we seem to get a variation in accents, and most importantly an ATC system that works and doesnt fly us into terrain. I think the issue is , (and i was like this until a few weeks ago) until you understand AI and the costs involved its easy to underestimate costs.
I'd be fine with the basic voices just as long as the instructions are accurate. The ATC that i use now will tell me to hold at runways and forget about me, or vectors me into mountains on approaches. Also will this make FSLTL redundant? Its done a wonderful job for me but using one less program has to help performance.
I’ve been looking forward to this for quite some time. But with that pricing, I think I’m gonna wait to see what improvements the new sim makes to the default ATC.
Idk what their business plan looks like. If they are planning on a high penetration of people using modes above the offline mode, if that doesn't materialize then there could be risk to cash flow and ongoing support.
I´m buying this program for sure. Will I use anything appart from offline mode? Most likely and almost surely not. Maybe, I could see myself using basic voices for the AI and basic for ATC, but I simply won´t pay for the premium version. I want to use this as a tool to train for Vatsim, as I just get too nervous for it right now. Looking forward to it.
bro... Just hop onto VATSIM. Start at a small airport with just a few frequencies online. You can write in your notes that you are a new user so the ATC will give special attention to you. The ATC is just as nervous as you. If you know the transmissions and just are afraid to speak, you shouldn't be. There is nothing to be scared about. The ATC will take good care of you my dude.
As said, join VATSIM and join The Flying Programme (within the UK branch). The written training material is excellent, plus there are special group flights, one to one mentoring sessions that really help make those early steps good for both you and the controllers. Seek out the international 'First Wings' events (a few each month) that are made for new pilots to learn in a fairly forgiving environment. I felt exactly the same - it's well worth the 'deep breath and dive in'.
Thanks for the video and break down of things. Pretty interesting product. I just don't understand why the default atc in msfs sounds like an old robot when fsx and fs9 had a pretty decent default atc
I'm really on the fence about how I feel about this. Firstly, I would always use premium voices, otherwise it would defeat the purpose for me. If I was going to say yes, I would really like a hybrid XXL 12 month model. The idea being, I'd buy a $300 premium voice only unit pack. If I don’t use it all, then it's just like the currents plans. HOWEVER, if I use it all up before the 12 months are up, it becomes a subscription and gives me unlimited premium voice use for the rest of a year.
Just my 2 cents here.
I have PILOT2ATC for the moment and the offline voices from BEYOND ATC do not sound worst then the voices from P2ATC from what I can hear from the sample.
Pro's for BEYOND ATC
Using offline voices no additional cost.
No microsoft speech recognition is used, for a non native English speaker a big plus.
The say no fps loss, big plus.
All ground movements , pushbacks, taxing, all handled by Beyond Atc, no taxing aircraft run you over, no aircraft landing when you are on the runway, because all controlled by Beyond Atc
In my opinion these are all big plus points.
So 60 $ is a very good price
To compare, you can use the program driving a Fiat , with no additional cost, or you can drive a Rolls Royce , but then you have to pay for the luxurious ride.
That is the way the world works.
Again, these are my personal thoughts, yours may be different,and that is totally fine.
A side note here,
There is a company that sells a 737/600/700/800/900
And for each version with the same cockpit layout , a few minor details aside , you have to shelf out the dollars, they do not even give a discount when you own one version already
So ' 60 $ in my opinion is a bargain.
Certainly because you have the option of no additional cost ,when happy with the offline voices
If you talk about offline voices, lets dig in the real greedy part of BATC. I use also atc software for years and along the time, I ve bought some quality SAPI voices. Cereproc is an example of those. I use them flawlessly in all the software you mentionned, not even talking about SLC or FSFO. WHY BATC DONT ALLOW SAPI VOICES ?? For me its clear : they say "pay for our voices or get crap ones".
@@homasas4837I bet those cereproc and the software you run them with cost you an arm and a leg. I know i used to run VoxAtc back in the day. Idk man seems to me 150 offline voices and some premium time for the others is not bad for 60$. Got less for more money back in the days of FSX so idk... about that greediness and exploitation of niche software.
I agree with your take, you get what you pay for in this world. that's just how it works. New technology is always crazy expensive. I remember when VCRs first came on the seen they were almost 2000 bucks and that was decades ago. Tech has always been expensive and if you want to ride the cutting edge then your gonna have to pay to play it is literally that simple. It has always been that way. I think what Beyond ATC has presented is more than fair, I can't wait for the release. Not only that you are getting two products for the price of one, ATC and Traffic Injection and to put the cherry on top it will all be married together costing low FPS, so come on. Some people just want have their cake and eat it to, they wanna pay for the Fiat but want the Rolls, so they complain. That's how I see it.
I'm fine with the pricing if it works as well as in their demos. That's the part that I'm most interested in: how well the traffic will be, how well will the ATC be, and also FPS impact
Ok the default offline voices don’t sound too bad if the example used in this video is what we will get. So thank you so much for giving us an example of what default offline voices would sound like. I was afraid it would sound like some robotic voice. Other reviewers should give examples like this cuz they definitely are putting a bad representation for BeyondATC. Thanks again Gav.
Problem is, with the basic package you don't get speech recognition, as far as I understand. Deal breaker for me.
@@antonbatura8385 The speech recognition uses up time 'units' I believe, so assuming this is true as long as you have units available you should still have speech recognition. Likely offline voices with user speech recognition won't cost too much, but will still have *some* ongoing costs.
@@antonbatura8385 It does use units but VERY little so if you used offline voices only, you would probably never run out of speach recog units
@@antonbatura8385 The default units you get will last a very long time using only voice recognition.
The pricing looks pretty reasonable to me for value promised with this system. And I'm glad to know the fidelity of actual ATC operations is the same across all 3 models...it's only the sound of the voices that's different, which to me is no big deal.
Yup
The voices sound incredible. Even the offline voices sound really great. Looking forward to this
To be honest, I was super excited for this because VATSIM can be pretty quiet and there are a lot of people flying unrelistic flights on there, plus a lot of people who don't really know how to communicate to ATC breaking immersion even further. But only the premium voices would feel right after using VATSIM for 6 months now, so it would just be too expensive for myself as I do about 40 hours of flight time a month.
Completely understand why they are that price, so do not think they are on a money grab and it is not a criticism, but it has made me realise I am not willing to pay for the experience I initially wanted.
AI model pricing will decrease over time, much like anything else. There's no need to worry about it. I appreciate the pricing model they have chosen. Offering options is commendable. I also like the flexibility to dip in and out as desired. This approach is sensible and seems fair. Best of luck to them.
Been following BeyondATC since development was announced. Incorporating believable voice and injection capabilities into a single model is very attractive. Additionally, the "use as you choose" option provides a nice ability to select the utility of the app (and therefore the per flight cost) based on the value and quality desired for a given flight. This becomes a definite buy for me If both the voice and injection models perform as hoped.
Something very important that was missed here that some others picked up on is that you speaking back to the ATC uses your transmission time. So there is no 'offline/free' use of this. Once that initial transmission time you're given is used up you're stuck to using number presses and so may as well just stick to msfs default atc IMO.
The transmitting PTT units are miniscule. You would need to do a lot of talking before they run out.
I wasn't aware of this. How disappointing. Speech recognition is something that is widely available for free, even windows has this capability built-in.
windows has mediocre free speech recognition that needs to be trained. BATC uses AI speech recognition that doesn't need training and has reportedly been used by heavy-accented speakers with no problem. I'm not disappointed at all, especially since the credits used to interpret my voice is so tiny I can use it for a very long time. I think once this app comes out and people see streamers using it, it's going to change their minds very quickly.
My question is can you still use push to talk, with the offline voices. So in essence, just paying for your transmissions, no higher quality voices.
@@Skalekul The default voice recognition in windows kind of sucks - for this they are using higher quality ai voice recognition which uses cloud services.
Excellent breakdown. Basic voices pricing is quite reasonable and you're right on premium eventually going down in terms of demand/supply dynamic. Even offline is just miles ahead of the OEM MSFS ATC. Can't wait for this to release!
Very reasonable solution. The pure fact that there is a one-and-done option AT ALL in a new product in 2024 is already an unexpected positive surprise in a world where everything is leaning towards subscription-only.
The premium voices sound incredible, just the price is insane. $3-4 per flight!?
Additionally my worry would be how long the servers stay up for, if not many people take to this program, which is possible, given the cost, how long before they shut their parts of the servers down, and you are stuck with nothing at all.
I am fine with the free tier with medium for some accents. Day one purchase for sure. The offline tier sounds better anyway so there is rarely need to buy that pro time. I have ATC chatter for the AI and that is good enough for me.
There will always be people who expected the program to cost $5 or something ridiculous. People have no idea of the costs for development sometimes. I'm still buying it, purely because I want to avoid landing on a runway in the same direction as AI traffic is taking off..
Paying a dollar a flight is just not an option... This is not about initial investment, I would have paid double or even triple for a good service if it was a one time deal... This is far too expensive down the line... I get why it is required, but to me that just means the technology is not ready yet.
$5 would be too expensive
You don't pay the development you pay the hardware and power bill for generating ai voices on the fly by a third party company.
It didn't always use to be like that & irritates me as well & completely different to FR.
I don't think initial price is the issue. Being charged per radio call will add up quick.
I like the pricing strategy. As I do not fly very frequently it would be way more expensive for me to pay on a monthly basis. But this pricing model makes it very interesting for me to use and use it where it matters for me, that is when simulating passenger flights.
I think this actually a fantastic pricing model! Unlike a subscription based model, where you pay the same regardless of how much you use it, this is very sensible, in that you owuld only pay for the basic/premium voices as you use them. As someone who only does maybe 3 or 4 flights in a month, I think it would absolutely be worth it going for the premium price packs. Very excited to see your beta test flights when thy come out!
Pricing model is great, program looks great. Definitely an improvement and as per other comments seeing here, acceptable - I personally would've expected some sort of subscription model or something similar for the professional voices.
Thank you for this detailed explanation of how the cost will change with different ATC and pilot voices.
A much better strategy (than "Say Intentions") to charge your customers a fixed rate and then apply a monthly sub if someone wants to take it Beyond (pun intended).
I presume that everything else will remain the same in all packages (offline, basic and premium) i.e. the mechanics of the ATC and how they deal with traffic on the gates, during pushbacks, on taxiways, holding short for planes in front of you, on short final and also on the air.
Awesome stuff. The prices will definitely drop and what's wrong in using offline voices and ai-voices intermittent? If you want to go all the way use premium. If you want to practice use offline. And as said it will definitely become cheaper in the future.
I think once Say Intentions comes out with full IFR compatability I'll go for that. Let's face it, our hobby was never going to be a cheap one especially when we want deeper immersion
Sounds pretty reasonable to me - I was expecting around this price point so will probably give it a go
So pleased to hear that it's available as a once only payment and I will definitely buy it. I would never consider a subscription based product because I don't use flight simulator enough on a regular basis to justify it. If I didn't use it for 3 weeks I'd still be paying.
Thank you so much for this! A group I sim fly with and I were just talking about this yesterday. Even how BeyondATC marked the last section as 65% off when the math didn't add up. As well as, the way things were explained were a little foggy. I'm looking at this than say intentions. Mainly because I don't need an extra bill in my budget. Heh
Looking forward to your Beta testing video(s)!
Cheers!
I'm still trying to digest these pricing options. Sure it's well developed....but the option of the 'Premium' package (which obviously offers the highest level of immersion and realism) would be far more expensive, and considerably more than I would like to pay or could afford. And I am still left with the feeling that in the back of my mind I would be thinking "It's good......but then so is Vatsim.....and that's 'Real'. You could ignore 'Beyond ATC'.....but you ignore a 'Vatsim' controller at your peril 🤣
First step into ki reality… Very impressive, cant wait to test it. Expect prices to drop when competing systems will show up.
I seem to have mis read the title. Are you planning to show off the beta or was that a general statement?
Thank you so very much for going over the pricing structures of AI based ATC. Makes much better sense, now. :)
Bear in mind as well that you can change it up whenever you want, from flight to flight. So you might want to go premium on one shorter flight, then offline for a really long flight that might use up a lot of units. or whatever.
Durring a live stream with Asobo studios they mentioned an yet un-announced AI ATC and traffic system. I am curious if this would be an in house MSFS 2024 voice AI ATC. It would make sense since the data streaming to MSFS uses already consumes a vast amount of resources that are pre dedicated to MSFS and Microsoft has spent a ton on AI already so incorporating the two probably wouldn't be to big of an issue to Microsoft where retail costs are truly astronomical for AI services right now.
I feel that ATI may be valuable for the beginners like myself. I really want to learn how to communicate with our traffic control but in the meantime not knowing any of the lingo and especially hearing how fast everyone talks I can never make out with her saying. It'll give someone make me a chance to develop a listening ear to understand they're very fast speech. I am excited about AI for air traffic control but again only as a beginner.
Based on the sample voices I think
a) the Offline are better than the Basic
b) the Offline voices are great - would not need or use Premium voices
Initial cost - not cheap but then the system is a great one. I do not like that currently they only expect to support IFR and for that reason would not buy it. Once it supports VFR (at least in USA and Europe) I will reconsider
Premium voices sound incredible. Love this. Looking so much forward to this addon. But I feel I will be more than ok with offline version. Thank you for the video.
Offline voices ae 150+ US and UK accents, not worldwide. Worldwide offline voices will come later. Presently, only the basic and premium voices are worldwide.
As for thoughts on the cost, as you said in the video, it is what it is. The developers are selling extra time at service provider cost, so that is helping the community keep the cost down, albeit still expensive. We just need to wait for the volume of scale to take effect and then prices will drop. You can already see that when buying more time. The more you buy, the cheaper the unit cost.
Based on how good the offline voices sound, I plan to use offline for both my aircraft and AI traffic, then use only the minuscule amount of transmission time for push to talk capability. That will last me years before the credits are gone and the best bang for the buck with this app. Lastly, free updates for the lifetime of the product!
Great explanation thanks… but oh dear - excitement quelled. On reflection pay per use is probably better than subscription model, but unless paying £’s per flight I’m going to feel like I’m not getting the full experience and that’s going to leave a bad taste. Hopefully API’s will come down in price fast!
Pricing seems reasonable provided it does what it proclaims to do. We've paid more for PMDG products.
As a casual flight simmer, I'd be more than happy with the offline package. $60 isn't cheap, but the pricing is somewhat understandable. I don't think I'd require any of the "subscription" models for the amount of flying I do these days, but it would definitely be worth the $60 over the standard ATC in MSFS. The subscription model seems fairly reasonable to me, although I can imagine if you spend most days flying in the sim, it would mount up very quickly.
As for the SayIntentions product, I think it's a little unfair for people to label the cost as "ridiculous", but for me, especially as a casual simmer, I cannot justify paying that much. The product looks really good and I'd love for it to be part of my MSFS experience, but there's no way I can justify £360 a year for a single addon for something I only dip into every now and then.
Transmission Time is somewhat an unfortunate thing... understandable due to operating cost, but unfortunate. I was hoping for an up-front purchase cost for the product, then a system with a monthly time allowance that would "recharge" at the start of each month for the premium voices. Hit the limit? Well, either switch to the offline model, wait for the monthly recharge, or pay to use the premium voices in-excess of the allotted monthly time. It would be nice to have the premium AI voice program entirely on one's system and therefore able to process/generate the high-fidelity voices locally, thus not costing data online... but we're not there yet. It's still an intensive process that would be very costly especially when running concurrently with an already intensive program like MSFS. Think I'll probably have to stick with VATSIM, for now, despite its occasional frustrations and limitations. Unless, of course, the offline portion of Beyond ATC exceeds my expectations...
The Offline feature at least is better than the canned OOB version in MSFS2020. I'll give it credit there.
Agreed.
Yep. But MSFS2020 costs the same as BeyondATC.
The $59.99 price tag includes about $30 of premium voices. I would prefer the option of starting out with just the offline voices. Let me choose to buy basic or premium voices if I want to rather than forcing me to up front. That puts the price of the program at a more reasonable level compared to other add-ons.
I wait for creators like you to share the information on the real product before I really make a decision. I heard the offline voices the first time today and they are OK to me. So maybe I wait for a sale if I like the reviews. 😉
I tried the demo for "Say Intentions" and was quite impressed. That said, $30 a month is too steep for how much I would use it. Since I fly for a living, most of the time when I do flight sim, I prefer to just take an enjoyable VFR flight in a vintage aircraft with no ATC to harsh my mellow. The Beyond ATC model would work much better for me, since I would likely be one the those whose transmission credits would last for years. And, the offline voices sound fine to me. I really only use ATC, like Vatsim, when I stream an IFR flight.
If anyone thinks 60$ is too much for software like this. Imagine back in the days of FSX there was a program similar to this that used TTS called VoxATC and it was priced 60$ as well. We came a long way since then and this is definitely worth it's money in my opinion.
If it is as it seems - accurate ATC communication with good voice recognition (for a small price), then this can work as a really good training tool to increase my RT as well as incorporate it into workload management. As RT skills increase, stepping up to basic and premium for more variation can be done without much effort. This sounds like a really good deal to me. The level of accuracy will be key.
I am wondering if variations on levels of difficulty will be incorporated in the future - some ATC controllers being faster or slower, or have english as a second language as well. Increased levels of stress when there is lots of traffic, like you would see on VATSIM would be cool as well. Future stuff though, I expect.
Thank you for the video.... I know I will be using Beyond ATC to help free some FPS with using the FSLTL program, as well to experience a better ATC control through a whole flight... Will not necessary need to use the advance voices. But might use them from time to time. Hope this can be used in VFR later in it development.
I'm still very happy with the program. I'll buy it and always use the offline voices though
I'm not a flight simmer (I only play racing sims), but AI for something like a racing crew chief or pit radio would be cool, maybe even AI commentary as I race 😊
I love the pricing model. Monthly subscriptions? I would never take that as you have to pay full price even if you don’t use it that much during certain periods. That is the reason I also stay away from Navigraph. I’m a retired airline pilot so I’m used to planning and charts (and more like loadsheets and manual fuel planning), but now I just want to fly to relax and discover new planes and regions. If I fly IFR (or VFR) I just use information freely available on the internet, no need for a monthly subscription for something that is not real, just a simulation. I cannot wait for the release of BeyondATC because I miss some immersion during flight and I do hope it will be a wonderful addon for MSFS.
I think you neglected to mention something important … transmission time is also going to be used every time you speak to the controller, for the voice-to-text conversion. So even the “free” offline voices version will eventually require you to buy more transmission time … unless you also forego the ability to speak to ATC with your own voice and instead just send your communications via the mouse and/or keyboard.
I think eventually something based upon this kind of AI will provide a truly excellent ATC alternative. But at this moment in time I believe this one is doomed to be far too expensive for most flight simmers, me included.
Great impartial video unlike the other bloke who released an advertising campaign video. I will buy the basic package and use the offline voices as they sound more than reasonable. There is no way though myself or most users for that matter who does lots of flights can afford anything more than the offline voices. This AI voice technology is just not ready or affordable at this time, I just hope their business model wasn’t going to rely on a lot of uptake on that.
Very informative video thanks. My question is what will atc be like in fs2024. Will Microsoft eventually go the AI route?
If Microsoft were smart they’d absorb this team like they have Working Title.
I can’t wait to get this. It’s not complicated. It’s pay per use only if you want the higher grade AI voices after the initial price.
I’d rather get PilotEdge $180/yr instead of sayintentions at $30/month
I have a ChatGPT 4 subscription but not prepared to do the same for a far more limited game addon
This is an enticing add-on to make flights more realistic. I am glad I have an MBA so I can understand the pricing/units set up. 🤔 I do understand the system and the need. My type of flying is mostly from smaller airports (Harrisburg, PA) where traffic is not that intense, so I don't think I'll be using the units as quickly as others may. However, I mostly fly VFR in GA aircraft and I do hope those kinds of flights will be covered/included as well.
The basic offline voices are fine for me. In the 'real world,' they're just instructions, nothing more.
Very simple. You get what you pay for….. I’m buying it
That's me out of the BeyondATC hype. Another purchase; another subscription. Getting a bit tired of tying knots together with multiple programs as well.
Too expensive for my wallet.
Someone needs to do a head to head comparison between BeyondATC and SayIntentions. Really curious to see what difference there is between programmed responses vs GPT responses, and ofcourse how is traffic injection handled differently.
I really look forward to this application. Sure it may look a bit expensive, but I like what they have showed up to now in the development videos. That said, AI *IS* expensive to use. That is just what it is right now. We are still in the early days of AI in practical use. Just like early computers, early phones. When time progresses, more will come, products get cheaper. So if you want to use the Premium AI voices, yes, you need something in your pockets. It's not fun, but I get why they need to. And if you don't want that cost, go for the offline voices and pay once for this product. Or choose an alternative. FSHud for example. Or the native MSFS ATC. Or Vatsim (recommended!)
While the pricing model is a little complicated, the great thing is it's really flexible and you only pay for what you use, which as a very sporadic user, I think is going to be much cheaper than a regular monthly subscription. I'm all for it. As for the voices, I honestly can't tell the difference between offline and basic, but I do think the premium ones sound great. I would probably settle for the option of using the premium voices for the controllers and offline for AI. That seems to be the best bang for buck, but time will tell. Also, I want to see how people get on with this and Say Intentions over a period of a few weeks, and possibly wait to see what MS announce regarding FS2024 before diving in.
Very useful video as usualGavin. I have really been looking forward to this product but I am detecting a big problem. It seems that the push to talk feature that makes this interactive is ONLY available if you buy the additional subscriptions. Personally I can live with boring voices but real interaction was the whole point of Beyond ATC for me. I fly almost everyday, so if that’s stacking up at $50 pcm or more, it’s just too much. If I can get interaction and push to talk with the basic package, I’ll buy, if not, I’m not sure.
The PTT feature, whilst it will use come 'units', uses a very very small amount of them. Meaning you'll do many hours of flying before you'll need to top them up.
Well, I happen to think they’ve struck the perfect balance on pricing. If the ATC vectors and organises the airspace correctly I honestly don’t really need the premium voices. I mean they’re nice, but the key for me is a functioning ATC.
BeyondATC is Beyond my budget and if we encourage this type of product (certainly not yet like reality), it will be the green light for all the other businesses who take us for wallets, which they empty, either monthly or by package, which ultimately is the same thing and believe me, I'm in advertising!
Never heard of PMDG Package prices before MSFS 2020 then.. We re talking over £100..
The offline voices are already great and much better than default ATC. Works for me and totally worth it, if the AI traffic simulation will be as good as it seems. Big nope on the microtransaction route for the Basic/Premium voices, though. That's just as mad as the Sayintentions subscription fee, just in a different guise. I fully understand that the AI tech behind it has running costs but they are too steep for this average consumer.
A complicated picture all round, and even more so when you consider MS/Asobo are looking to improve their ATC offering. All in all, I think US $60 is a bit of a stretch, but that aside, I think their fee model is OK. At the end of the day, they aren't a charity and so it's reasonable to expect them to make a dollar for all of their work, and on-going work they'll need to do to keep current with MSFS as it evolves (think MSFS 2024).
That said, I think I'll wait to see what MS/Asobo do with MSFS 2024 before jumping in, but it would be a major improvement indeed to better BeyondATC form what we've seen.
Here's how I see this...
The product seems pretty sweet. I would love to get access to it already (is the beta open to anyone who will buy the app?). I am however more of a VFR flyer (using ATC where possible on vatsim) than an airliner flyer, so good VFR support would be very important to me. Does anyone know about the state of that?
Anyway... I am very much reminded of any new tech released to the public. It will be expensive (which I think the premium side of things is) to start with and as this kind of method is adopted by competitors, deals will be struck and those savings SHOULD be passed on to us, the paying customer, right? So long as this company has that in their future, i'll be OK with this.
Additionally... choice. It's not often so much choice within one package (while still delivering the same functionality which BeyondATC looks to do regardless of the tier you use) is actually presented to the customer these days. Most companies go for the "bleeding edge" and then expect people to pay for it, when a simpler, just as functional tool is available. I'm not sure how much this applies to the flight sim world, but there are plenty of other business sectors where this observation can and has been made. The fact the guys behind BeyondATC have accommodated for the various tastes and financial situations is quite something. I mean... those offline voice blow default ATC out of the water... ON ANY SIM! And by quite a margin I'd say.
I'd like to think that as thing progress for this product, the pricing structure will shift... adding even better, more refined perhaps, features at the higher tier and nudging todays bleeding edge down a bit in the pricing structure to reflect the ease and cheapness of providing such a tool. Honestly, so long as a positive moral standing of the company behind this exists at all, we can buy in now to save later, right? No guarantee, of course. Businesses are businesses... some are less money grabby than other and I don't see a track record yet to see what the position long term on this will be for the guys behind this product.
As for the $59.99... i'll buy it. It's a lot of money, sure. If there is VFR ATC, i'd daily drive the crap out of it. Mainly on the pleb level of course (as i'm not that plush with the pennies) but damn (!!!) what an improvement it would be to 1) have guaranteed coverage where I fly that reflects the real world (i'm hoping unmanned stations that you tune in to for local traffic will be a thing by the way) and 2) engage in much more natural interactions with non-network ATC due to the (what seems like in the demos) pretty forgiving, robust and versatile voice recognition.
As i've mentioned a couple of times in this comment... it all comes down to the VFR side of things. Does anyone know about that at all?
This is my initial thoughts as someone who has only ever really seens their demos on their own YT channel. I have no hands-on experience with it at all... but I am excited.
It's amazing how much spin control "friends of Beyond ATC" are doing right now.
I agree. To me, it seems very hyped from the beginning.
Dont buy it then if you dont like..
@@robh8814 If I had my hand on it like I do with Sayintentions, but all I seen from BATC is videos. I don't know if I would like it or not.
Just don’t buy it😅
@@robh8814 the most stupid answer to an observation only
I am actually surprised (in a good way) that there is a fixed price model option. I also think that $60 is reasonable. This is a utility type addon that will affect the sim every time it’s used. I tend to think of it as a “global addon.” Navigraph is more expensive than this. The lower quality voices don’t bother me if procedurally they are correct and varied. The “free” voices will be a big step forward.
I'm disappointed that they couldn't have an option to use windows voice recognition along with the offline voices for the rest. I was impressed their offline voices sounded that good. That would have made it completely free to use after purchase of the basic program. I agree that windows built in voices are bad, but I have tested the built in voice recognition windows provides by writing a letter in notepad while I dictated. It took down everything I was saying with no problem that I could see. There could have been some coding reasons they had to go with a cloud based service to convert the users speech that we don't realize, I don't know. That is my only complaint, otherwise I hope BATC is a success. If BATC is released before MSFS 2024 comes out I will still wait before I will buy it and see if the built in ATC will be better than we have now in FS 2020 and we won't need a third party ATC for a decent experience. Right now I use Pilot2ATC. I really like it except for the crappy built in windows David and Zira voices.
Offline voices with AI functionality is cool. But SayIntentions sounds like the more groundbreaking one out of the two.
Honestly I think the pricing isnt that bad! If the main difference between the offline voices and basic/premium is just how realistic they sound a lot of people (myself included) would be fine with the robotic sounding voices. The main issue with past ATC applications like Pilot2Atc has been its inability to understand what you're saying. The truth is air traffic controllers are trained to sound robotic in real life anyways lol.
You completely missed that Beyond ATC is a traffic injector & it controls all the AI traffic itself unlike Microsoft & FSLTL which is getting more unreliable with each Microsoft update..
People need to remember that this is at least 2 Programs.
A Traffic Injector that handles all AI traffic as well as you so can space out the Landing approaches & NO MORE STUPID GO AROUNDS from the Inbuilt ATC that I always ignore anyway.
No more AI Traffic taking off or landing on the opposite runway to what you are departing on & always is the opposite to Flight Radar. I always check FR before I select a Runway in Simbrief.
To be fair Simbrief usual gives you the correct runways but get in the game & you have aircraft landing towards you. It didnt always use to be like this.
59$ US is £46 in the UK. Which for what it does & its 2 programs in 1 then as soon as its released its ACTUALLY one of those products I'll buy straight away.
I got my Girlfriend too not buy me anything big for Christmas so she can buy me this when its released 🙂.
I'll stick to the offline voices as they are fine too me & Im not bothered about the accents. I think the Microsoft voices are fine also but doesnt change.
Navigraph unlimited is £70 a yr.
Personally I like the Beyond ATC price model MUCH More than Say Intentions . I don't fly a lot of IFR, so Say Intentions got my attention immediately! Its (say Intentions) cost though for my more casual use is triple what I would want to pay monthly for the 5-10 flights per month I might take and use Say Intentions on. I already pay for Navigraph premium and that will not give up and my budget is cinstrained. I also on really fly in the colder wetter months of the year in the PNW U.S. so paying $30 per month for 4-6 months of use in a year is not an option. On the other side, Beyond ATC approach to buy and use what you need does have strong appeal. That I can also leverage the Beyond ATC management engine and use locally generated voices instead of the pay for voices also appeals. there are still a couple of open questions about whether the $60 upfront cost really allows me to leverage all of the Beyond ATC management functions and just use local speech synth but that answer will come soon, as I am not alone in wanting that clarified.
Since I am not flying IFR as much as VFR there is less importance here. But when Beyond ATC can do VFR too, It will likely be a slam dunk for me!!!
Not for me. I have spent enough in-flight simming that I don't want to take out a mortgage on a monthly basis to hear ATC. So good luck to those of you who think it's worth it.
Thank you for the video. This is the first one I have seen demonstrating the voices, and working out the cost per flight. Premium will be a no go for me. Unless they reduce the add on costs, then the cost per flight will not drop, whilst every time I use the Fenix and 737, the average cost per flight is dropping. I didn’t notice much difference between offline and basic voices, so may purchase it and use offline mode when there is no vatsim/ivao coverage. Also I won’t have to load FSLTL anymore
Glad it was helpful!
I am really looking forward to this being released as I am planning on using it to be a step towards flying on Vatsim (Not plucked up the courage yet) but apart from that having full coverage rather that spending most of the flight on UNICOM will be very imersive.
As I have very limited flight time each month and even then only get to do short (UK) flights I would expect my usage to equate to about $20 per month if using a combination of basic voices for ATC and offline for Traffic which I am OK with it may be a bit steep for some people but that is why they have come up with this pricing model which seems quite flexible.
My kind of flying. Two or three flights a month mostly in the UK. I think Offline voices (UK accent) will be good enough with PPT for my reply. The initial units will probably last a year. So about £20 a year. Be nice if the amount of AI traffic can be controlled as well. I don’t need a full Heathrow experience.
£60 upfront and £20 a year not much as hobbies go.
What concerns me here is that their FAQ states that speaking to the AI will require transmission time, and if you wish to use the software without transmission time, you'll be limited to using the UI to make requests. This seems to suggest that if you wish to use the "Push to talk" features, even with the offline voices, eventually you'll run out of transmission time and have to top up. If that is the case, then this software effectively has limited use features that will eventually stop working unless you pay more money. I'm not so sure about this approach tbh.
The vagueness of what a 'transmission unit' actually is, how it's calculated, how monitorable it is for the user etc feels like it's open to abuse. It's referred to as 'units' and 'time', so which is it? Is it seconds? Is it kb of data sent? The whole thing could benefit from being more transparent. Not sure if there's a way to see in real time how your 'transmission time' is decreasing with use. Weights and measures, is what I'm getting at.
Transmission time - oh my god what does it mean? I have no idea what you are talking about!? Any chance to be explained in more details and explanations? Thanks!
I’d have to hear those responses side by side because they sounded pretty much the same to me.
I will give it a shot I don't mind the $60 for the program. I average 4-6 flights a month I will try it out and see how quickly I run out of units. If it will last me 2-3 months I can live with the pricing if I am having to spend $20 a month I would rather stick to Vatsim. I think others will agree and if it gets too expensive I feel it will be a short lived program.
4:07 this isn’t actually 100% true that it won’t cost you a penny more if you just use basic according to their FAQs if you want to use the push to talk function as that uses transmission units (albeit described as ‘very small amount’) so eventually unless you want to return to using the UI and lose the PTT function, you will still need to pay more to use the product.
I am happy to pay $60 for this amazing software. I will be there quicker than a rat up a drain pipe! :-)
Will likely be happy with the offline setup, if the rest works as advertised.
Its a good concept and a good feature and in time will come down in price. I think for the majority cheaper alternatives do a decent enough job that quite a few will stick with them till the pricing comes down as the tech improves
I wonder as well if the partnership between ms and open AI does not open doors for msfs 2024….they will also adapt their ATC- model. But to be honest, I don’t have an issue with the pricing. The dev decides the price and I decide if want to pay for it. There are options within the program to go high or not. For me it is all about immersion.
thankyou for a in depth video on beyond atc it explained alot
Pay as you fly? Apparently there's a caveat with the free voices, if I'm not mistaken they're button control only
Hm, sounds like this will bring up the transmission time anxiety. Since this is just the first pass on pricing, I assume they'll also introduce the subscription on the packs or at least an unlimited pack for the streamers who can afford it.
Pilot2atc is the same base price and you only get windows voices by default which are worse than the free BeyondATC but there is a weird psychological effect that because the premium voices exist people will feel bad about the other options. Personally, I will use the premium voices, I don't get to fly every day at best 1-2 flights per week on average so that's quite acceptable to me.
All seems pretty good and reasonable. Been using Say Intentions which is lovely, especially when i threw some random stuff at it today . but to be honest whilst i might be tempted to keep it this month i just cant justify the expense . I fly the fenix but tbh i do a lot of vfr but ill get beyond atc and just hope vfr comes in thr nxt few months.
However thnx for this video, if imbhonest i will probably use some of the mid level and premiim sparingly. But i dont😮 feel as if off-line are too bad . At least we seem to get a variation in accents, and most importantly an ATC system that works and doesnt fly us into terrain.
I think the issue is , (and i was like this until a few weeks ago) until you understand AI and the costs involved its easy to underestimate costs.
Oh hell no.
Got pilot2atc, enough for me without all this microtransaction business.
I'd be fine with the basic voices just as long as the instructions are accurate. The ATC that i use now will tell me to hold at runways and forget about me, or vectors me into mountains on approaches. Also will this make FSLTL redundant? Its done a wonderful job for me but using one less program has to help performance.
I’ve been looking forward to this for quite some time. But with that pricing, I think I’m gonna wait to see what improvements the new sim makes to the default ATC.
I think it's actually pretty reasonably priced given the high cost of AI usage.
Idk what their business plan looks like. If they are planning on a high penetration of people using modes above the offline mode, if that doesn't materialize then there could be risk to cash flow and ongoing support.
I´m buying this program for sure. Will I use anything appart from offline mode? Most likely and almost surely not. Maybe, I could see myself using basic voices for the AI and basic for ATC, but I simply won´t pay for the premium version. I want to use this as a tool to train for Vatsim, as I just get too nervous for it right now. Looking forward to it.
bro... Just hop onto VATSIM. Start at a small airport with just a few frequencies online. You can write in your notes that you are a new user so the ATC will give special attention to you. The ATC is just as nervous as you. If you know the transmissions and just are afraid to speak, you shouldn't be. There is nothing to be scared about. The ATC will take good care of you my dude.
As said, join VATSIM and join The Flying Programme (within the UK branch). The written training material is excellent, plus there are special group flights, one to one mentoring sessions that really help make those early steps good for both you and the controllers. Seek out the international 'First Wings' events (a few each month) that are made for new pilots to learn in a fairly forgiving environment. I felt exactly the same - it's well worth the 'deep breath and dive in'.
Subbed for batc beta info 🎉
A one time fee for using the premium voice packages would have been nice. But that's typical of software vendors these days.
Thanks for the video and break down of things. Pretty interesting product. I just don't understand why the default atc in msfs sounds like an old robot when fsx and fs9 had a pretty decent default atc
I'm really on the fence about how I feel about this. Firstly, I would always use premium voices, otherwise it would defeat the purpose for me.
If I was going to say yes, I would really like a hybrid XXL 12 month model. The idea being, I'd buy a $300 premium voice only unit pack. If I don’t use it all, then it's just like the currents plans. HOWEVER, if I use it all up before the 12 months are up, it becomes a subscription and gives me unlimited premium voice use for the rest of a year.