The Good, The Bad, The Rusty ($1 million estimate)
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2021
- #welding #estimate #bigjobbigdream
Big Tom and me do a quick walk through of this NIGHTMARE job. If we land this bid, it’ll be the biggest job my team and I have ever taken on! As we walk through we address some problems we see, and even meet some of the tenants in the buildings. This project has some MAJOR pieces and problems. But you can only eat a elephant one bite at a time. I hope this shows you some of my inner thoughts when trying to tackle one of these bigger jobs. This is a typical welding job near the coast. But you have to tread lightly, cause there is a ton of liability involved in these stairway replacements. Especially when the tenants are going to be there the whole time!
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Breaking News…another Florida building collapses because the HOA was more worried about heavy hors devours than properly repairing the stairs and beams holding up the floors…back to you Matt!!!
😂😭
HOA? Explain nomenclature to your international viewers!!
@@LifetimeinWelding HOA stands for Homeowners Association. It's a self-governing community council kind of thing comprised of people in the area. They own homes and pay fees into the HOA to enforce standards of maintenance and cleanliness.
In practice, they tend to be run by people who treat it like a personal fiefdom or a position of political office. They misappropriate funds, harass people, try to fine them for the stupidest things imaginable, and like a slum lord owner, they sometimes cheap out massively on needed repairs to things like exterior stairways. Hence the laugh but cry emogi's Anthony dropped up above.
@@jasonsexton8869 thank you. Good explanation. We have them in the UK. Exterior Cladding being a good example.
Bid high boys! Full replace Good luck 🤞
HOA was planning budget of 10k for spray foam and an invite to the potluck this Sunday 😂
😂😭 best comment yet
If the HOA thinks they're going to get just a 'repair' with the structure being what it is, they're in for a rude awakening.
definitely
Tear it completely out or have a tight contract with very little liability. Rust is like cancer... and that patient is terminal.
The different repairs you see are every time the property changed ownership. They get slapped with a 1M bid and the foam, caulk, bondo, and paint them to look good and sell it and run
Be careful man. I was an expert witness on a situation just like that. Everyone was getting thrown under the bus after a tenant almost fell from their balcony when a rusty handrail failed. The new welder that came on to do the work told me he wished he had bid double what he originally did.
we didn't end up with the job, HOA did not want to pay for complete replacement
@@MeltinMetalAnthony absolutely nuts, it doesn't take a welder to look at what you pointed out and come to the same conclusion as you. Someone could get seriously hurt or die.
@@MeltinMetalAnthony wow what a bunch of cheap pos
dude I fell through the 3rd floor stairs I was working on at a place like this. that guy wanted everything fixed. some of that stuff was beyond fixing. that's how them apartment guys are.
External stairs are cheaper, until they are not.
It's good to see you making videos again Anthony!!
Looks like fun can't wait till I get a job like this
Had an almost IDENTICAL situation with an HOA here in NJ. The bid almost blew their socks off but like u said, there was a ton involved with it with engineers and all and let’s face it the juice gotta be worth the squeeze 💁🏻♂️
Great to see you’ve videos again love them 👍👍
More to come!
Can’t wait 👍👍
Doing construction work my brother and I found out real quick that apartment complexes are real cheapskates and they like to write bad checks or just not give you a check at all. We're like look we charge a flat day rate, if you don't pay cash up front at the beginning of each day then we'll just turn around and go home. Don't like being that much of a hard ass about it. Don't normally treat customers like that. But when it's corporate and they're extremely skilled at screwing over handymen you do what you have to. Always have a contract and always have it earn compound interest on nonpayment.
Great advice! They had sticker shock when we gave them the proce
you would be surprised how many gas stations have a few metal poles holding carport area over gas pumps, & the structural poles are the drains for the water on roof, some have massive rot where water comes out. but I see it nearly every older gas station
keep up the good work!
This job is beyond a nightmare I can't even believe that they're allowing people to use these stairs period. Based on what I see everything looks like a rebuild, definitely looks like more than a million dollars. I wouldn't even contemplate this job unless I'm fully licensed bonded and insured. The owners should be thinking along those same lines as well, too much liability here.
great video thx
Reclaimed irrigation water causes a tremendous amount of corrosion due to the very high levels of chlorine in it.....so that may be another issue at the site. just look around a swimming pool and the corrosion the rails have from the chlorine......glad you passed on this job.....cheers, Paul
definitely, ran into that at golf course water reclaim plants in your neck of the woods
Yikes! I'm no good at estimating, but it looks like more work to fix than just replacing....
PS: is it just me, or does anyone else itch to hammer on that rust??
lmao I definitely do
as a welder I had a similar itch to hit it with a wire brush on an angle grinder...
Anthony, lots of that here in Orlando, the materials were never prepped and painted correct, just slammed up......I have been called out on way too many of these, I stay home now....best wishes Buddy, Paul Brown
Lot better watching than doing I've also found since I retired.
That was one job to run from. I see a big can of worms opening up with a liability lawsuit .
Just had same job done on the apartment building I live in here in Chicago suburbs and our was in way way worse shape to begin with. They ripped the front off the buildings one by one after they built temporary stairs in back from balconies. They redid the fronts with modular pre built metal sections with each section being hot dipped galvanized. All new concrete footings and sidewalk's and ties into the roof structure just like what you are seeing here.
Things to watch out for on these jobs that the contractor here got nailed for, the boom lift destroyed the parking lots and intermediate sidewalks and he got stuck having to redo parking lots and sidewalks. The boom lift was 60 foot with hard wheels and they had to change it to a track version. He also had to add two more heavy lift equipment to set the sections after they started, a lull at one point and then they changed that to a big backhoe and reversed the bucket along with the boom lift. He also completely destroyed the landscaping and turned it into a giant mud hole at each building. He had to do much carpentry finding all kinds of rotten facial once started. so with all this said, 1 million might be a little light, if you already bid it out hopefully you got these things covered, if not, pray you don't get the bid,...lol
oh and I almost forgot, now this looks like a damn battleship gangway and sound slike it too when people walk up the stairs you can hear every footstep echoing through the building and into my apartment. Had some kids running up the stairs, I thought it was thundering outside. Without the stairs and deck being concreted, its reverberates everything. Maybe there's some kinda rubberized spray coating that could be applied to the underside of the flats and stairs to fix this but FYI.
This job would give you a LOT of videos. I would suggest you get this job designed by an engineer and approved by the local authorities. If you don't your legal future could be a nightmare.
My uncles runs his own roofing company, I used to ride with him on bids and on them jobs he didn't really want to do he would bid super high hoping he wouldn't get it that way if he did it made it worth it still.
A year late my friend but it shows the hidden issues with older metal structures. Cheers for the walk through and what was soo bad with the stairs .. im gonna say that you got out from something that really could have gone south very quick . Way to much wrong with everything .very shoddy and bad before anyone starts on any repairs.
That standing water all around the concrete is a big problem too. You should redirect all the water too away from the base of each stairway
definitely, this job has tons of issues
I remember you rplacing a rotten column base in another video maybe in a foot warehouse space.....i assume that was due to pooling water? this kind of rot would not happen with an interior protected post would it?
Top guy !!!
I'm glad to see you bid it properly for an entire replacement as opposed to scabing it together for them. These people care more about the yard and landscaping than they do the safety of the tenants who pay the rent.
Nice video! This Job would’ve been a nightmare, but I definitely would’ve taken it for a million dollars. Would’ve demoed the whole thing then gotten it detailed for fab then hired erectors to install and still probably would’ve walked away with a crap ton of money. Too bad they didn’t have you do it.
Yeah bro the same thing happened to us. We do floor installation and demo, we had a condo call us about wanting tile repairs due to cracking in 42 suites out of 210. Long story short we ended up demoing 4 suites and realized there was a major structural issue causing the cracks. Started in one corner of the building on the top floor, went down 3 and every single one had huge cracks in the same locations so we stopped and got an engineer involved. What the HOA thought was going to be tile repairs turned into a structural overhaul. They never called us back so idk what ended up happening to it. That was in New Smyrna beach
Tell Big Tom to get some Tuff Toe. It's great stuff.
Did you try giving them a quote to do the worst one only?
I love that the owners consider spray foam and paint to be a “repair” do they not realise the liability if all that falls and kills people.
Imagine them explaining it in court.
Judge: what maintenance did you do on the building to prevent this?
Owner: spray foam, paint and tape.
pretty sure they learned there lesson with the old buildings. They are putting them indoors.😄
I think so too
Dang man that apartment place was actually willing to fix things that were still that SOLID? jeez. the guy I was working for last year woulda thrown a hissy fit if I replaced things that were still as solid as that stuff. one thing I learned though is if you got support poles like that, that are rusting through usually the whole thing is flaky and not really repairable. I've tried to cut a few and only replace the bottom but everything on the top was just rust. I was so stressed out when I was working for that dude. I totally understand what you mean when you said you weren't sure if you wanted to deal with that job. If you do undertake it don't let the owners try and fool you into doing patchwork. that needs a replacement. they can plan for it from the beginning or learn the hard way when you touch one thing and the rest falls apart
I can't believe some of those main columns were overhanging the foundations 18-50 and the later one where a corner was in the air, that has to break every building reg, whoever passed those designs needs punishing. If they were within code imo those codes need changing.
you need to make everything new and make it all so you an bolt it together on site. and get it all galvanised.It will last a long time then.
I wouldn’t build with metal stairs on the outside, I would want it built inside or dry somehow.
could you splice in stainless steel tube and baseplate for the bottom 3 feet of each post to prevent that rot if you tore out everything and replaced it.?
While anything’s possible i highly doubt it would be up to code
can you use some of the old steel you are takeing down
They got alot of water pooling issues they need to fix b4 redo the stairs or it will just happen again and it's close to the water. Just have a company come in and put foundation drainage around everything and have it dumped into the waterway..
Man there is a lot of corrosion down there with that moisture.. job security! Maybe someday DOW will make that “structural paint” and we’ll be screwed
Risk vs reward is my motto working for a customer is one party and one potential liability.A project like that has hundreds of people that are potential liability going up and down those stairs.And along with that if the HOA has any other problems with the roof or building
structure your a bite of the apple.
Nice pond they have at the stairs
😂
That's a scary job to partially repair, as any where you cut and weld is guaranteed to be partially eaten away internally.on the existing structure, then welding the new metal on is going to accelerate the rust on the HAZ, on the old metal. and crack very soon fron the constant vibrations of people bouncing up an down the stairs. Big lawsuit time !! IMO. ALL OR NONE. Great Video THANKS
definitely, they wanted me to just repair, I told them no way
damn work, be careful bro
They'll pay. Once a tenant gets hurt and sues
We welded lot's of million dollar contract's, problem is one QA for 30 employee's who can pull a trigger with a Mig. Having a Structural Welding Certification is different then sh*t welding.
Tom needs new boots too lol
1.5 mill lads rip it all out and do it right
yes i agree.make it all so it can be bolted together on site and get it all galvanised ....
how about have it sandblasting and repair the steel
Some jobs are not even worth the headache. Especially if the customer is cheap.
Here in NC code for Pickets as well as gap between stair steps is 4" or less +zero. We actually had a ball that we could quickly test code on that stuff with if the ball passed its no good. (We got that ball from an inspector actually.) The idea is apparently anything over 4" inches a small child could get their head wedged and stuck between the pickets or stairs. Our Precast Treads we would bend the pans to cover so there was no gap we only had to worry about the stair gap on Floor Plate Treads. Unless the customer requested gaps on the precast treads anyway which was rare.
BTW that's one of those types of jobs you overbid so much in hopes you dont actually have to worry about getting it but, at the same time if you do by some miracle end up getting the bid you make enough that its actually worth all the bullshit that's going to come from such a job. Especially on a jobsite with tenants living and moving around the jobsite the entire time. So much liability and possible things that could go so terribly wrong if you didn't bid it some crazy amount and something did happen it could bankrupt most business's.
Never used a ball...inspectors use them but the tape doesn't lie
Big job big $$$$$$$$$$
It's funny living in pnw after being raised in Colorado..... Ain't nobody using an umbrella out here no matter how hard it rains. In Colorado if it did rain hard we stayed home all day, out here you'd go broke quick fast if you wanted to kick it cause it was raining!
Hey if you could just shoot us a number on the labor, we already have the caulk.
Couldn't they enclose it and build it out of lumber?
What do you think is the main reason it rusted out so bad? No primer coat? Or just inevitable after certain amount of years?
steel near the gulf. its inevitable
@@MeltinMetalAnthony oooh you guy ate nrar the golf. Yeah salt water will eat it right up. Great video bro.
Just for the epoxy would cost over a couple million to cover that metal
7" max rise no more than1/8" different tread to tread. Non negotiable. I assumed that was a national standard, here in Pennsylvania it's gospel for commercials stairs and public access.
Codes are strict in structural welding. Red Tag all it by some. Code you would think they would listen to you.
In the uk that would be condemned good luck boys
All new footing piers
Go big or go home? Good question, if you don’t try new (or bigger challenges) you’ll never know your potential. Give it a go and see what god has for you guy’s I’m rooting for you
Olá meu amigo me chamo Ricardo de São Paulo Brasil. Nossa este tipo de serviço dá pra ganhar dinheiro seria um tempo totalmente dedicado ao condomínio.
Mas serio mesmo tem que condenar tudo isto e fazer novo com material galvanizado a fogo e tudo no parafuso e solda.
Desejo boa sorte ai pra pegar o trabalho. Abração.
Ask what they want
Is a $1 million dollar job a friend or foe? Ebb?
How many million symbols did you find?
I thought you were joking about 1 million dollars. I watched the video and yeah that is beyond a nightmare, but I still cannot process how that could cost a million dollars. At the beginning I was thinking it would be like 50k per staircase. but I'm not the professional I just hobby weld, either way the video was interesting and I like watching your channel and all the repairs.
How would you set them? There’s a LOT more involved than just building new stairs by ordering the materials and welding it together. You would need at a minimum a gradall (telehandler) to move materials from the trailer it’s brought in on, to set each flight and that’s if it has enough boom to reach high enough to set the top flight iron in place.
Stairways aren’t inherently hard to do. They just require proper planning and that means you better know exactly what you’re going to need for demo and reinstallation. Which also includes having a structural engineer who designed the new stairwell to current building code standards. There’s more $$ right there. This isn’t a cheap job even though most of the stairwells are more than likely typical. But the equipment rental alone and an operator for a crane if one is necessary to successfully complete the job are going to be big money. For a 50 ton crane around here is $400/hr, plus wages for an operator and oiler to run it and it’s a 4 hour minimum to get them to show up on the job. If you need a bigger rig than a 50 ton you can essentially double that cost.
It adds up really fast.
You could also set them by hand with chain falls so long as the roof structure is able to support the weight of each flight plus any rigging needed to set a flight in place. You could do it that way without having a ton of money in equipment rentals. But it’s more time consuming to do it that way and is also dependent upon there being enough structural integrity in the structure to support that type of install. I’m a union Ironworker. This is stuff we do all the time at work. You would just need a gradall to move materials around the site. Plus mats to put down to drive on the soft turf so you don’t destroy the landscaping etc. there’s a lot more that goes into these jobs than meets the eye.
Those are rusted inside worse than out. total remove re-build. all are past their life usefulness for safety.
When disaster comes they all plead ignorance of condition.
The motto of people now never got time to do it right but always got time to do it over the world we're living in in the seventies they pairing their kids the day they let them run free and blame everybody else over the damn falls
If you need some help?? I'm arriving end of November and could give you a helping hand. Hahaha, kidding, tear down the whole crap would be the best way to do it cause starting a repair is a never ending story with a bunch of liability . Be careful before signing a contract especially if you know that the HOA doesn't have the money to invest in this repair...
Anyway stay safe and healthy and keep up welding.
All the best
Tom 🇦🇹
P. S.
Arriving end of November in Miami
glad to hear that Tom! if I was staying in the area I might take you up on that! we determined a complete replacement was necessary. they wanted repair job, no way!
@@MeltinMetalAnthony 😳😵😵 you kidding, they really want to hire you for only a repair ?? Holy crap that's horrible what a sh*t HOA lol you should call the authorities cause that's live threatening. But without kidding, maybe we can manage a short meeting I'm not far from your area (staying in Fort Myers) should be funny meeting a subscriber from "over the big lake" (Europe). Let me know what you are thinking about and let's see..... (Sorry my English is pretty bad but I learned that language looong looong time ago in school). Anyway stay safe and keep up great work
Tom
Please let us know if you get the job or not I'm very curious
we did not
@@MeltinMetalAnthony why didn't you get the job buddy I'm just curious
@@br-dj2ti they said in another reply that the hoa wanted a cheap patch job.
@@olivertaylor4779 damn I wish you would have got that job that would have been great for him
Why not build them off-site from the original plans
original plans are out of code. needs re engineered
This is the REAL Stairway to Heaven.
How many years has the original installation lasted before now? 10? or less?
I believe these where built in the 80's based on rail spacing and step spacing
@@MeltinMetalAnthony in all fairness its held up well being 30+ years old. with doing it right and tearing it down there's no reason you cant get even more than 30-40 years out of it probably with minimal repairs along the way on the new build
Bro that picket spacing was all over the fuckin place lol
Submit quote with sandblast Anthony, then repair with GMAW. Doesn't look to bad, but won't fully know untill blast of rusting areas is complete.
too much liability and room for error. id rather replace. I can make a definite quote that way
What ever your bid is, double it!
They be better off replacing that with a treated wood
How is this allowed? This thing was terrible when it was new
They will say no and then go with someone that made a higher estimate
you can see whats no good and whats good
That's a gig buddy!
Let's go Brandon!
Crazy how they bought those high dollar from big corporations, yet won't pay any one else to build them.
Say you got the bid. They need to invest in prop. Drainage.
Make it out of stainless
Sad is those stair case's where production welded in jig's, bid is the tricky one. You can tell it was line welding, machine was turned up really high 400 to 500 wire speed 22-26 hot side, and that speed threw the welding causing a crap load of problems that are covered up with paint an glue.
Nightmare for sure. Total R and R.
The world would be a better place if everything was made from stainless steel lol....
id be a better welder lol!
bet you woulda stayed in florida for a milli hahahaha that was some shit stairs right there crazy how it can get let go that far
your dam right lol. Honestly the whole building was messed up
Whenever you look at a job like this..... COVER YOUR ASS.... Write a full report of dangerous conditions. Send copies to everyone concerned. SAVE a copy.
Need a structural engineer to inspect and draw plans to today’s specs
yea, we got a quote from one before submitting bid
work
I wouldn't touch that job, there's way too much rot, to last those things need to be completely reconstructed from scratch, especially in the elements they are in. Honestly the HOA should enclose those so they aren't so exposed, granted the clear disregard for building a complex that can't shed water is probably the bigger problem. Granted knowing Florida law you can probably walk away from that job have it rust out in 5yrs and never see a suit.🤣
Funny building in$pector didn’t $ee that lol
It's a million dollar job minimum, to make it worth it and cover costs and time.
Insurance job poor install always t & m rebuild to many issues .🤔✌️👍🙀
they did NOT like the quote
Hourly.
Start all new galvanized
Why galvanized sorry I’m new to welding?
@@505fastlife6 antitrust
@@505fastlife6 less Corrosion
@@dennisisaac746 what type of welding should I use on exhaust I can’t get an answer?