2 Similar but Different Actions | Fencing Refereeing
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- Опубликовано: 19 сен 2024
- Fencing referee's have to make real time decisions based on tiny mistakes and it often comes down to instinct. What do you think of these two actions that whilst looking very similar had opposite outcomes?
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I think the ref made the right calls on both of them. The first one was preparing on the hand, but had the right footwork. The second one fixes the hand preparation.
I feel like when fencing facing the ref with your hand behind your body, you have to exaggerate certain moves to be more convincing. Stefanello appears to have made a presentational adjustment.
Honestly, it is too hard to see where the hand begins extension, but the fact that Botello's blade reached horizontal sooner on the first example is a good indicator that right of way is on the left.
The call from the referee is significant here - he says it's attack on prep for the first and attack counter-attack for the second. He thinks Stefanello has made a mistake in the first hit (notably she pulls her hand back as she comes forward as you illustrate).
But the second has no mistake from either side, it's just that Stefanello begins her attack slightly earlier. If Botello had not paused slightly after the prep, that would likely have been simultaneous. Both calls correct IMO.
Yeah ngl i thought I was a pretty decent ref but I would not have been able to split the two in real life
In the second clip he realized the fencer on the right was an Uzbek.
I agree. I judged them the same way the ref did. Hand goes back on first touch and on the second, the pause is too long compared to the aggresiveness of the attack from the opponent leading to an attack on prep.
imo i would call both attacks for the right. After looking, I think in both cases FOTL paused (front foot stops and fencer watches). I would debate FOTL was a stop, compared to the continue attack from FOTR.
THAT BEING SAID:
if that becomes the meta, and attack continuations become abused, then we steer the meta towards a continuously attacking game. There can be little a defender can do. Unless we are more strict with attack-no's in the second zone again. This would just lead to sabre devolving
this is why i direct epee and foil
yep... totally understand taht ... i can ref foil and epee easily but feel so out of .. with sabe.. even though i used to fence sabre for years in the 90's now i can't see what is happening./...
The ref is right. Both times. For the first action I would explain with a hand pulled back signal.
Ref pilled, made the right calls imo but I doubt I would’ve called it. If I’d seen the messy extension I’d probably call a missed attack on that first one because of the pull back
Man you just explained it…in first clip italian pulled her hand back and mexican “caught” the tempo and in second italian took initiative and mexican was to late…
The first one looks like simultaneous and second looks like attack in prep…. But this is why i’m a highschool fencer and not an olympic ref lol
I agree with the calls and why they are wight. Just to throw a different idea, while talking, with sabre masters, sort of this is confusing for anybody since the difference is very small. Some say that if a ref can not see or separate an action without looking at a video than it must be simo. I kind of agree as sometimes it seems referees are afraid or unwilling to call fencers actions simultaneous. They feel they have to call left or right. Sometimes it is difficult to explain to a student why he lost the touch when he came out more aggressive, full speed and attack on prep is just a reaction from the opponent. We used to call it a tempo attack but had to have it on one light. Was a bit more realistic for me but as with timing changes etc it might change too. Thanks for the great video
Si sta esasperando troppo il centro pedana. L'arbitro ha ragione, ma io modificherei le convenzioni per rendere queste stoccate simultanee/comuni.
The other comments seem to disagree with me so maybe I've been out of the game too long and as a result am dealing with a combination of 1 missing any rule changes that may or may not have happened without my knowing and 2 maybe not remembering the rules entirely correctly even as they were in my time and of course 3 just being out of practice of seeing what's happening, but all I'm able to see is first one simultaneous and second one just attack from the left arrives
The first one is never going to be simultaneous even in foil, but the second one is rlly subtle
@@bananaboy1026 The first one is attack from left. But at lower levels, the refs call attack from right because the footwork is bigger.
Yes
Why weren’t they standing according to the lines In the first bout?
In the previous touch halt was called after Botello turned her back. They then restarted from where they were.
@@SlicerSabre ohhhh thank you
yes!