Had to reupload, lets see how long this will stay up... If you want to support the channel, please take a look at the Slicer Sabre Patreon: www.patreon.com/SlicerSabre
I think you make a good point about substitutions and whether they get medals. Why do the soccer subs that aren't played get medals but fencers don't? The current implementation of the rule is so unsafe. It encourages athletes to compete while injured. I'm fine with the subs having to stay in once subbed in, but they should make an exception that if an athlete is injured and deemed medically unfit, then the fencer subbed out earlier is allowed back in. The injured fencer should then be prohibited to fence for the rest of the event.
I think the men's team foil final is another example of why they need to change the rule - it was a tight and exciting bout and then both teams used their substitute in the critical 8th leg only because they wanted the whole team to get a medal. There was no real tactical reason to make that change and the 5-0 that resulted made it much less entertaining in the end than if that had been a hard fought leg between Bianchi and Shikine or whoever was supposed to be up
"Soccer" subs don't get medals if they don't play. For instance, France's 3rd goalkeeper Théo de Percin didn't get the silver medal because he didn't play at all during the Olympics.
@@maelperez1567In the world cup, even unused substitutes get the medal, and honestly, why shouldn’t they? Everyone in the team contributed to the win, if only helping in training.
@@maelperez1567Also, in football nowadays a lot of competitions have concussion subs where any player judged to have been concussed must be substituted off, mostly even if the team has used all their regular substitutions
In our local scholastic division, coaches sometimes act as referees. This is because we are short of qualified refs. However, 1) it's a tourney for local kids only, 2) the coaches can't referee their own fencers, 3) everyone is watching them like hawks for bias, so they know they have to make good calls.
@@SubSovereign The problem in my eyes is when you coach at the tournament but at the same time referee other bouts. Sorry, but that is completely against the rules. You have direct impact of who your fencer may face down the line in DEs. If kids perceive this as normal, don't be amazed when they don't see anything wrong with it when it happens later on in their career.
We're also more honest about it. Even as the league armorer, when I was directing at the events I couldn't sell/armor at, the vendor/armorer hat was off and the ref hat was on. I'm very fair....I screw everyone equally!
Unfortunately I was not able to watch the Olympics due to certain issues, but a highlight for me was despite all the top fencers doing their best, my country (South Africa) had a representative in fencing for the first time in 16 years in men's Epée! He unfortunately lost his first bout, but our country is still super proud of him!🇿🇦
Brand new to Fencing, was watching all day the last 4 days literally every match. I loved it so much and even tried to look for a fencing school. Epee was my favourite competition to watch, I wish France would have won more golds just because the crowd was incredible and the Grand Palais was the best place to see the sport. Feels like I missed out on years of this sport but will learn more about the corruption and the things that ruin the sport but the great athletes left me loving this sport so much.
Corruption is obviously bad, and you'll always face questionable decisions at tourneys, but you shouldn't let that stop you: the sport is always going to be amazing, and you should really try it out for yourself. I recommend checking out all three weapons because fighting feels a lot different from watching.
I’ve been using this Olympics to show fencing to lots of friends and family that have no knowledge of the sport and the amount who found the brutish box actions being the main decider in the men’s sabre bad was staggering. It’s nearly impossible to track, hard to follow the referee decisions and straight up not interesting to watch the score crawl up while both guys hit each other repeatedly at the same time. It’s a real shame since when Sabre leaves the box it’s the most exciting, interesting and expressive of the disciplines by far. More needs to be done to incentivise fencers to play towards the best aspects of the sport and splitting decisions like this serves only the referee, not the athletes, the coaches or the spectators. From an athletes perspective what do you even learn from a match of entirely ambiguous calls in the box? To me it looks like a way for top referees to flex how good they are at making calls, the problem is they’ve split them so fine that they’re not actually able to make good calls. Bring back and incentivise simuls so this nonsense can stop.
@@frenchgalloglass5204would be an even more cautious version of epee which would be shit imo. All you need to do is bring back simul. If you want to win a point actually change your strategy as opposed to charging and banking on making a better looking attack than your opponent
@@frenchgalloglass5204 it was tried at youth level in some countries when I was fancing in the last millennium. there were two outcomes and both were not pleasing either. One result was the continuation of the status quo back than of the immediate flash attack and hope for errors (rather then getting the advantage by coin toss) the other were fencers looking at eachother without much fencing to engage in a flash attack just 30 seconds later.
I found your channel before the Olympics began , your videos helped me a lot to not only understand the sport but also the behind of it and the problems with certain referees for instance. Thanks
glad you brought up martelotti refereeing the bronze medal bout for IWS, i was literally sitting there like "um...what???" i wouldn't say i sensed any preferential calling but that doesn't mean it's okay, the FIE is seriously becoming an embarrassment
You said the refereeing seemed arbitrary. Funnily enough, the two words share the same etymology in French: arbitre (referee) and arbitraire (arbitrary) from latin 'arbiter'.
I saw a lot of comments on the IG posts you showed at the beginning of the video, and on other posts all over the internet saying "Oh I hate this sport you just have to flick a very light hit, it's nothing like rEaL fEnCiNg" the point I want to bring up is this is a sport, A SPORT! Olympic shooting doesn't have gang members or quiet kids, boxers don't have pocket knives and brass knuckles, it's the same principle. It's a sport, you're not trying to kill the other person, this isn't 2000 years ago where gruesome death is considered to be a part of sport. To all those people who think fencing isn't real, grow up, they're not meant to kill the other person for your enjoyment.
This games were DEFINITELY Oh Sang-Uk’s game! He was such on 🔥! He won asia’s individual & team gold medal & asia’s championship individual & team gold medal too just before the olympics! And gained back for the 3rd time his #1 best sabre fencer in.THE.WORLD! Incredible!
The IOC's relentless pursuit of copyright enforcement is insane. I can't even watch my favorite moments that all my friends are talking about across various sports because I can't find them anywhere! This is hurting so many sports, which would otherwise gain much-needed attention from the general public. Moreover, there are countless "fake" videos that are nothing but clickbait, showing absolutely nothing and just hunting for views. I got so frustrated with this that I've lost all interest in the Olympic Games. It's no longer about showcasing and celebrating sports; it's become purely a money grab. Disgusting.
The chubby, bespectacled referee who judged the semi-final between Ferjani and Ziad was terrible. He always judges based on the atmosphere of the venue. He was also the one who didn't give a black card to Bazadze in the Georgian tournament. If he can't judge with confidence and fairness, he shouldn't be a judge.
Douvis? Yeah he's pretty average and probably corrupt. Look up CyrusofChaos' video of Alshamlan vs Repetti from Budapest 2024. He literally changes a call midway through giving it and tries to pretend he didn't Even apart from the corruption I think he's just shit in general as a ref. Fucked up Patrice vs Kim Junghwan in Orleans a couple of years ago too
Def. some upsets I didn't see coming with Sabre that shows how open the field is now. U.S. men's foil power house has kinks in its armor, but by contrast women's foil solidifying its dominance thanks to Kiffer. Sabre wise that women's French final was awesome, as well as the Ukrainian's women's team gold and individual bronze by Olga Kharlan.
I fenced sabre for a couple of decades... earned a B multiple times. But the calls I've seen over the past few weeks saddened me. It's always been a sport with questionable results, but some of these looked like they were not due to incompetence.
I reached the point when I can't watch referees like Milenchev, Fikrat, etc, I'm disgusted by them all. (Female referees seem quite okay though, but maybe I'm biased because they are nice, but for me they all look very decent, sharp, precise, I didn't see doubtful calls from them.) We used to refer to decisions the referees made during certain competitions, but after these months, this won't be the case anymore... We should start to orchestrate some action together, because until then, we are more or less wasting time, effort, motivation...
There is a fair use act or something like that - look it up. If the clip is under 15 or something like that seconds - it can not be striked. Also, if you put picture in picture, supposedly it can not be striked either. Obviously, Google will often just ignore the "little guy"... which sucks but that's the unfortunate state of the world and the powers that be,
yes but we have to understand non fencing audience. the fake scream even if the fencer knows is not right, just to influence the ref is annoying. I can understand audience on that.
@@kriboo3734I hate the claim yelling is to "influence the referee." 1) Any ref worth their salt isn't swayed by yelling 2) Current FIE refs are almost certainly being paid to influence their calls. Pretty sure that would be a better tactic than yelling and hoping
Another youtuber made a great video on "the dam of legitimacy", and fencing seems pretty close to having its dam broken. Ideally every strange call or event will be considered an error of the viewer, or maybe a legitimate unbiased error of the judges. At some point the dam will break and everything will be considered illegitimate tampering even when fair. It's very hard to rebuild that dam and often signals the death of a sporting organisation in the global stage. It seems like this is the route fencing has been going, but nobody wants to step in and reverse this.
The rules are fine. It’s the lack of comprehension and translation of actions that are the problem. Every double touch in saber should automatically go to video review even when it is an apparently obvious call. Edit: 6:58 Correction, I’m the best referee in the world but nobody knows it yet.
The point is Martilotti should not be allowed to referee someone who lives in Italy, is married to an Italian and is coached by an Italian If you thought that was attacking Kharlan not Martilotti and the FIE you might need to watch the video again
@@Dd-ue4ct fencing is extremely popular in Italy, there is way more coaches and referees from Italy then other countries ( who judge at the highest level) . If nationality is the only requirement for judging , then I am afraid there will be not enough referees and judges. Plus , in other sports it is the same. A judge from Serbia judges a sportsmen from Serbia etc. a judge from Iran judges an athlete from Iran or other ' friendly ' countries. So if you wanna change that, you have to change ALL the sports judging criteria. It is not unique to fencing. I am a fan of rhythmic gymnastics and do you know how many times russians would put their athlete on a pedestal and no one could do anything ? Because there were so many judges from russia and they had all those certificates. What you talking about is credible, but it is deeply rooted in the whole IOC unfortunately.
@@bogdanafilonich33 you're telling me at an event that off the top of my head had qualified sabre refs from Hungary, Bulgaria, Spain, Greece, USA, Romania, Kazakhstan and Taiwan that not one of them could've reffed that bout?
At this point I'd rather just go school to school and challenge the best fencer there to see how good of a fencer I am rather than fight under FIE flag
In an ideal world his behavior at 60% of competitions would be a black cardable offense. He's actually gotten better in the last couple years, he used to be a seriously scary rageaholic. In this real world though, he is coached by and represented/endorsed by some powerful, rich, dangerous people within and outside the sport. I shudder to think of the risk these grossly undercompensated refs face in holding him accountable. A work colleague who doesn't even fence said he could be heard threatening the female ref of this Olympic match he lost on broadcast. Wild.
Yeah, as a fencer of 15 years, very little sabre though, I hate for the sport that even I can't see why calls are going one way or the other in these sabre off the line exchanges. The whole concept of ROW has to be constructed under the premise that it is possible for a fencer to "process that he is being attacked, and thus choose to make the correct fencing action, a parry, and not the wrong fencing action, a blind counterattack". It is quite clear to me that under the current rules there is no way for the fencers themselves to make this determination off of the line, and so these should all just be "simultaneous actions". But watching 10 simultaneouses in a row off the line isn't exactly riveting television either, so the only thing I can think of is to make the whole thing like tennis or baseball and just embrace asymmetric "innings" where someone has "serve" (ROW off of the line) for a few exchanges and then you switch back and forth. But that's not going to happen, so whatever. Epee was fun to watch though.
Completely agree with you. I was fancing Sabre in my youth and was very frustrated watching the Sabre tournament with friends not being able to spot, why someone was awarded the right to attack.
There is nothing worse in sports than cheating. "Dodgy" referees being a very common one. I actually fenced in wheelchair fencing in the world games in Hungary and we are graded by the level of disability so that bouts are a fair match. After all if you have partial use of your legs you have leverage and I happen to be completely paralysed from the waist so my thrusts and parrys are all really by way of the speed and strength of my arm holding the rim of a wheel. I annot gain height or lean forward and push up with my legs or one leg or lean onto the legs to keep balance. You would think this is fairly straight forward. Well I had a bout with an Italian whom I lost 15-7 to and it was my debut so I was really unaware that I was losing BECAUSE this man had a huge advance over me. I was amazed at his movevent during the match but assumed he was somehow stronger, he was after all a lot taller , bigger. Well imagine my suprise when later , at a get together with music and drink etc I see this Italian man STANDING in a crowd, picking up a woman and THROWING her in the air and catching her. Dancing etc. It turned out he had a prosthetic left leg below his knee but obviously he was incredibly mobile. Far more so than anyone in my "class or caregory" He was in the same "category" as me because the Italian team had graded him as such ( category D) when they knew he was basically at the very least a B (This can include people with MS who have weakened movement etc) or in my opinion an A as he appeared to have no problem moving as they do. Every country seemed to interpret rules their own way and Great Britain imo were one of the few who really adhered to them (Hong Kong, Hungary and Poland being others I felt were fair) France, well what can I say. I think they were the most incredible cheats I have ever witnessed. Italy a close second. Seems judges are always corrupt in sports.
I guess nothing will change until we protest and stop fencing altogether. Deny the FIE, make an alternative that would be fair and way more fun, even with the old timings, if needed
Referees think that they have special powers - and they think that is why they are referees. They think that their skills of perception are 1000x better than the average person, they think that they are envied and adored by others because of their special powers of perception. And when someone disagrees with them it is because the others do not have special powers and are jealous of them and their special powers. I also think that if the FIE were to add a cape to the referees uniform, the referees would say 'why did it take you so long to give us the recognition we deserve!!'
Milenchev is extremely competent when he wants to be. Unfortunately for various reasons he often doesn't wish to be fair and competent. I've also heard some pretty iffy things about him with regards to bullying and sexism so... Also the refereeing GOATs for sabre have to be the late great Zsolt Kaposvari and/or Papa Toure
Yea the fact China has a say in , some of the sly and unfair things in IOC doesn't suprise me. Plus I am baffled by the fact that, 2 counties that are at war with each other (Israeli and Palastine) Are allowed to compete in the Olympics, when both their countries leader are gonna be triarled for war crimes at the Hague. Plus a Military dictatorship (North Korea) Has been allowed to compete despite its allied country, (Russia) being banned for its huge doping scandle. When North Korea has been accused of THE EXACT same thing. Yea the olympic is worse than a UN delegation. And shows that the IOC is just not trustworthy and reapectsble in the world of sport.
I am not a fencer, just a fan of it so I am not "in the know", BUT, your "negative" comments are ALL very common sense critiques. SO unfortunate that sucha beautiful sport with such great tradition is so corrupt and poorly administered.
Every year during world and europe championship, every 4years at the olympics, same discussions, same statements on Saber. ==> Saber is total bullshit. The ref is making the fight, not the fencers. It's not their fault , it's because of the rules and the way the FIE wants to make it. Actually I'm not like everyone else on the 2 ref who worked on finales( The italian and the other one, Melenchev). They were very coherent in their decisions. They tried (as asked I think) to make saber more technical, they focused on lot of " attack on preparation" forcing fencer to franckly attack with blade on target to avoid bullshit run with "shortened arm" on the piste. But in all cases Saber is a bullshit fencing category. it has allways been like that. It's beautiful, it's fast, but a total no brainer. The fight is made by the ref, the way he ref, the way he decided to ref and the fencers has to modify their way to fence about the way the ref decided. It's not normal. They really need to come back on giving more " attaques simultanées" to force fencers to search technical solutions, like second intention. and not just I will attack 0.01 second faster than him. Or doing like me, choose Epée( I praticeds all 3 armes) as career, no rules, just kill or being killed ;) ( 25 years fencer here)
Seems like you're getting too negative. I agree with the issues with Saber but you sound like everything is terrible. The number of athlete rules in the Olympic games have been this way for a while. This is not suddenly the same level as the issues as the referringnand corruption. Honestly, I am ok with changing the Olympic qualifications or keeping them.
He did start out with positives, though nowhere near as much time was devoted to them. I also didn't get the impression he rated every negative he brought up as being of the same seriousness.
shrieking whiners acting like babies after each point = sabre It seems in sabre, its more important to claim a point and turn to the ref more than actual fencing speaking for itself. Its embarrassing
Had to reupload, lets see how long this will stay up...
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I think you make a good point about substitutions and whether they get medals. Why do the soccer subs that aren't played get medals but fencers don't?
The current implementation of the rule is so unsafe. It encourages athletes to compete while injured. I'm fine with the subs having to stay in once subbed in, but they should make an exception that if an athlete is injured and deemed medically unfit, then the fencer subbed out earlier is allowed back in. The injured fencer should then be prohibited to fence for the rest of the event.
I think the men's team foil final is another example of why they need to change the rule - it was a tight and exciting bout and then both teams used their substitute in the critical 8th leg only because they wanted the whole team to get a medal. There was no real tactical reason to make that change and the 5-0 that resulted made it much less entertaining in the end than if that had been a hard fought leg between Bianchi and Shikine or whoever was supposed to be up
"Soccer" subs don't get medals if they don't play. For instance, France's 3rd goalkeeper Théo de Percin didn't get the silver medal because he didn't play at all during the Olympics.
@@maelperez1567In the world cup, even unused substitutes get the medal, and honestly, why shouldn’t they? Everyone in the team contributed to the win, if only helping in training.
@@maelperez1567Also, in football nowadays a lot of competitions have concussion subs where any player judged to have been concussed must be substituted off, mostly even if the team has used all their regular substitutions
In our local scholastic division, coaches sometimes act as referees. This is because we are short of qualified refs. However, 1) it's a tourney for local kids only, 2) the coaches can't referee their own fencers, 3) everyone is watching them like hawks for bias, so they know they have to make good calls.
This is common practice and I don't think anyone would disagree with this.
@@SubSovereign The problem in my eyes is when you coach at the tournament but at the same time referee other bouts. Sorry, but that is completely against the rules. You have direct impact of who your fencer may face down the line in DEs. If kids perceive this as normal, don't be amazed when they don't see anything wrong with it when it happens later on in their career.
We're also more honest about it. Even as the league armorer, when I was directing at the events I couldn't sell/armor at, the vendor/armorer hat was off and the ref hat was on.
I'm very fair....I screw everyone equally!
Unfortunately I was not able to watch the Olympics due to certain issues, but a highlight for me was despite all the top fencers doing their best, my country (South Africa) had a representative in fencing for the first time in 16 years in men's Epée!
He unfortunately lost his first bout, but our country is still super proud of him!🇿🇦
Congrats to your fencer for making the Olympics! Regardless of the result, to even get there is absolutely commendable.
Congratulations! Hope to see him again on the Olympics then
Brand new to Fencing, was watching all day the last 4 days literally every match. I loved it so much and even tried to look for a fencing school. Epee was my favourite competition to watch, I wish France would have won more golds just because the crowd was incredible and the Grand Palais was the best place to see the sport. Feels like I missed out on years of this sport but will learn more about the corruption and the things that ruin the sport but the great athletes left me loving this sport so much.
Corruption is obviously bad, and you'll always face questionable decisions at tourneys, but you shouldn't let that stop you: the sport is always going to be amazing, and you should really try it out for yourself. I recommend checking out all three weapons because fighting feels a lot different from watching.
@maleldil1 absolutely, don't want to just feed off the Olympic hype and thats it. Want to really try the sport out. Appreciate the advice and support!
You are truly a fabulous analyst and very courageous. Your videos excellent. Thank you.
I’ve been using this Olympics to show fencing to lots of friends and family that have no knowledge of the sport and the amount who found the brutish box actions being the main decider in the men’s sabre bad was staggering. It’s nearly impossible to track, hard to follow the referee decisions and straight up not interesting to watch the score crawl up while both guys hit each other repeatedly at the same time.
It’s a real shame since when Sabre leaves the box it’s the most exciting, interesting and expressive of the disciplines by far. More needs to be done to incentivise fencers to play towards the best aspects of the sport and splitting decisions like this serves only the referee, not the athletes, the coaches or the spectators.
From an athletes perspective what do you even learn from a match of entirely ambiguous calls in the box?
To me it looks like a way for top referees to flex how good they are at making calls, the problem is they’ve split them so fine that they’re not actually able to make good calls. Bring back and incentivise simuls so this nonsense can stop.
I wonder what would happen if the right of way rule was removed from sabre
@@frenchgalloglass5204would be an even more cautious version of epee which would be shit imo.
All you need to do is bring back simul. If you want to win a point actually change your strategy as opposed to charging and banking on making a better looking attack than your opponent
@@frenchgalloglass5204 it was tried at youth level in some countries when I was fancing in the last millennium. there were two outcomes and both were not pleasing either. One result was the continuation of the status quo back than of the immediate flash attack and hope for errors (rather then getting the advantage by coin toss) the other were fencers looking at eachother without much fencing to engage in a flash attack just 30 seconds later.
I found your channel before the Olympics began , your videos helped me a lot to not only understand the sport but also the behind of it and the problems with certain referees for instance. Thanks
I'm surprised you didn't cover the pineapple on pizza war between Hong Kong and Italy
glad you brought up martelotti refereeing the bronze medal bout for IWS, i was literally sitting there like "um...what???" i wouldn't say i sensed any preferential calling but that doesn't mean it's okay, the FIE is seriously becoming an embarrassment
You said the refereeing seemed arbitrary. Funnily enough, the two words share the same etymology in French: arbitre (referee) and arbitraire (arbitrary) from latin 'arbiter'.
I saw a lot of comments on the IG posts you showed at the beginning of the video, and on other posts all over the internet saying "Oh I hate this sport you just have to flick a very light hit, it's nothing like rEaL fEnCiNg" the point I want to bring up is this is a sport, A SPORT! Olympic shooting doesn't have gang members or quiet kids, boxers don't have pocket knives and brass knuckles, it's the same principle. It's a sport, you're not trying to kill the other person, this isn't 2000 years ago where gruesome death is considered to be a part of sport. To all those people who think fencing isn't real, grow up, they're not meant to kill the other person for your enjoyment.
fencing is a beautiful sport it got my attention after this Olympics
This games were DEFINITELY Oh Sang-Uk’s game! He was such on 🔥! He won asia’s individual & team gold medal & asia’s championship individual & team gold medal too just before the olympics! And gained back for the 3rd time his #1 best sabre fencer in.THE.WORLD! Incredible!
The IOC's relentless pursuit of copyright enforcement is insane. I can't even watch my favorite moments that all my friends are talking about across various sports because I can't find them anywhere! This is hurting so many sports, which would otherwise gain much-needed attention from the general public.
Moreover, there are countless "fake" videos that are nothing but clickbait, showing absolutely nothing and just hunting for views.
I got so frustrated with this that I've lost all interest in the Olympic Games. It's no longer about showcasing and celebrating sports; it's become purely a money grab. Disgusting.
The chubby, bespectacled referee who judged the semi-final between Ferjani and Ziad was terrible.
He always judges based on the atmosphere of the venue. He was also the one who didn't give a black card to Bazadze in the Georgian tournament. If he can't judge with confidence and fairness, he shouldn't be a judge.
Douvis? Yeah he's pretty average and probably corrupt.
Look up CyrusofChaos' video of Alshamlan vs Repetti from Budapest 2024. He literally changes a call midway through giving it and tries to pretend he didn't
Even apart from the corruption I think he's just shit in general as a ref. Fucked up Patrice vs Kim Junghwan in Orleans a couple of years ago too
That why epee is the way to go. Less corruption possible.
Def. some upsets I didn't see coming with Sabre that shows how open the field is now. U.S. men's foil power house has kinks in its armor, but by contrast women's foil solidifying its dominance thanks to Kiffer. Sabre wise that women's French final was awesome, as well as the Ukrainian's women's team gold and individual bronze by Olga Kharlan.
I fenced sabre for a couple of decades... earned a B multiple times. But the calls I've seen over the past few weeks saddened me. It's always been a sport with questionable results, but some of these looked like they were not due to incompetence.
There should be a slow-motion replay of rthe action for those of us lacking feline reactions.
Rewatching for the algo
OH MY GOODNESS, YES!! Thanks for making this video. They are always so great and you bring up so many good points!
I reached the point when I can't watch referees like Milenchev, Fikrat, etc, I'm disgusted by them all. (Female referees seem quite okay though, but maybe I'm biased because they are nice, but for me they all look very decent, sharp, precise, I didn't see doubtful calls from them.) We used to refer to decisions the referees made during certain competitions, but after these months, this won't be the case anymore... We should start to orchestrate some action together, because until then, we are more or less wasting time, effort, motivation...
good vid
There is a fair use act or something like that - look it up. If the clip is under 15 or something like that seconds - it can not be striked. Also, if you put picture in picture, supposedly it can not be striked either. Obviously, Google will often just ignore the "little guy"... which sucks but that's the unfortunate state of the world and the powers that be,
0:40 The people commenting and having no clue what they are talking about is so frustrating to see
yes but we have to understand non fencing audience. the fake scream even if the fencer knows is not right, just to influence the ref is annoying. I can understand audience on that.
@@kriboo3734 yeah true in some ways but some people are just a bit weird, “hating” the sort is a bit weird
@@kriboo3734I hate the claim yelling is to "influence the referee."
1) Any ref worth their salt isn't swayed by yelling
2) Current FIE refs are almost certainly being paid to influence their calls. Pretty sure that would be a better tactic than yelling and hoping
@@Dd-ue4ct bro, if you are denying that, you definitly don’t know anything about saber :D
Another youtuber made a great video on "the dam of legitimacy", and fencing seems pretty close to having its dam broken. Ideally every strange call or event will be considered an error of the viewer, or maybe a legitimate unbiased error of the judges. At some point the dam will break and everything will be considered illegitimate tampering even when fair. It's very hard to rebuild that dam and often signals the death of a sporting organisation in the global stage. It seems like this is the route fencing has been going, but nobody wants to step in and reverse this.
wanna get into the sport, we have it for our PE class (college)!
reasons for not fence on an international level... whats the point? Just have fun in your own country/club and stay healthy 😊
The rules are fine. It’s the lack of comprehension and translation of actions that are the problem. Every double touch in saber should automatically go to video review even when it is an apparently obvious call.
Edit: 6:58 Correction, I’m the best referee in the world but nobody knows it yet.
Reupload?
Yup first one got blocked
I've downloaded just in case it gets blocked again.
thank you for the summary
It’s so crazy that they won’t show the Korean men’s team winning.
Kharlan won her fight in a fair way, so i don't understand why you say those thongs about her.
The point is Martilotti should not be allowed to referee someone who lives in Italy, is married to an Italian and is coached by an Italian
If you thought that was attacking Kharlan not Martilotti and the FIE you might need to watch the video again
@@Dd-ue4ct fencing is extremely popular in Italy, there is way more coaches and referees from Italy then other countries ( who judge at the highest level) . If nationality is the only requirement for judging , then I am afraid there will be not enough referees and judges. Plus , in other sports it is the same. A judge from Serbia judges a sportsmen from Serbia etc. a judge from Iran judges an athlete from Iran or other ' friendly ' countries. So if you wanna change that, you have to change ALL the sports judging criteria. It is not unique to fencing. I am a fan of rhythmic gymnastics and do you know how many times russians would put their athlete on a pedestal and no one could do anything ? Because there were so many judges from russia and they had all those certificates. What you talking about is credible, but it is deeply rooted in the whole IOC unfortunately.
@@bogdanafilonich33 you're telling me at an event that off the top of my head had qualified sabre refs from Hungary, Bulgaria, Spain, Greece, USA, Romania, Kazakhstan and Taiwan that not one of them could've reffed that bout?
@@Dd-ue4ct did you read my previous comment where I stated my point ? Please read one more time. Have a great day
I like your channel man. Very nice.🤺
Thank you for the video
I wonder if you be moaning if the shoe was on other foot.
what happened with the first upload
Olympic copyright!
At this point I'd rather just go school to school and challenge the best fencer there to see how good of a fencer I am rather than fight under FIE flag
What do you think about about adding nore fencing sports in the Olympics like kendo and hema
My thoughts are that they should be using real blades.
Bazadze should be banned from competition, his behavior is despicable, always has been.
He's very entertaining and I think the sport needs characters like him
as long as his actions are not seriously abusive towards the equipment and people running the event there isn't that much of a problem with it.
In an ideal world his behavior at 60% of competitions would be a black cardable offense. He's actually gotten better in the last couple years, he used to be a seriously scary rageaholic. In this real world though, he is coached by and represented/endorsed by some powerful, rich, dangerous people within and outside the sport. I shudder to think of the risk these grossly undercompensated refs face in holding him accountable. A work colleague who doesn't even fence said he could be heard threatening the female ref of this Olympic match he lost on broadcast. Wild.
Yeah, as a fencer of 15 years, very little sabre though, I hate for the sport that even I can't see why calls are going one way or the other in these sabre off the line exchanges. The whole concept of ROW has to be constructed under the premise that it is possible for a fencer to "process that he is being attacked, and thus choose to make the correct fencing action, a parry, and not the wrong fencing action, a blind counterattack". It is quite clear to me that under the current rules there is no way for the fencers themselves to make this determination off of the line, and so these should all just be "simultaneous actions". But watching 10 simultaneouses in a row off the line isn't exactly riveting television either, so the only thing I can think of is to make the whole thing like tennis or baseball and just embrace asymmetric "innings" where someone has "serve" (ROW off of the line) for a few exchanges and then you switch back and forth. But that's not going to happen, so whatever. Epee was fun to watch though.
Completely agree with you. I was fancing Sabre in my youth and was very frustrated watching the Sabre tournament with friends not being able to spot, why someone was awarded the right to attack.
يوسف الشملان ذا خرب كل الالعاب الخليجية بغشه، ما توقعت بيكمل طفوليته هو ودولته في الاولمبياد
There is nothing worse in sports than cheating. "Dodgy" referees being a very common one.
I actually fenced in wheelchair fencing in the world games in Hungary and we are graded by the level of disability so that bouts are a fair match.
After all if you have partial use of your legs you have leverage and I happen to be completely paralysed from the waist so my thrusts and parrys are all really by way of the speed and strength of my arm holding the rim of a wheel. I annot gain height or lean forward and push up with my legs or one leg or lean onto the legs to keep balance.
You would think this is fairly straight forward.
Well I had a bout with an Italian whom I lost 15-7 to and it was my debut so I was really unaware that I was losing BECAUSE this man had a huge advance over me.
I was amazed at his movevent during the match but assumed he was somehow stronger, he was after all a lot taller , bigger.
Well imagine my suprise when later , at a get together with music and drink etc I see this Italian man STANDING in a crowd, picking up a woman and THROWING her in the air and catching her. Dancing etc. It turned out he had a prosthetic left leg below his knee but obviously he was incredibly mobile. Far more so than anyone in my "class or caregory"
He was in the same "category" as me because the Italian team had graded him as such ( category D) when they knew he was basically at the very least a B (This can include people with MS who have weakened movement etc) or in my opinion an A as he appeared to have no problem moving as they do.
Every country seemed to interpret rules their own way and Great Britain imo were one of the few who really adhered to them (Hong Kong, Hungary and Poland being others I felt were fair)
France, well what can I say. I think they were the most incredible cheats I have ever witnessed.
Italy a close second.
Seems judges are always corrupt in sports.
So sad to see this type of stuff we need to ditch the FIE and start our own organisation the AIE (association international de l’escrime)
Mine, Yawn.
i guess sadly my state association is behaving exactly as the FIE is doing... badly...
I guess nothing will change until we protest and stop fencing altogether. Deny the FIE, make an alternative that would be fair and way more fun, even with the old timings, if needed
It’s one of the most boring sports despite being too aggressive.
Team South Korea 🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷🇰🇷
you are in the majority in your opinion. things stink.
I think the refs were being fucking ridiculous at times
Referees think that they have special powers - and they think that is why they are referees. They think that their skills of perception are 1000x better than the average person, they think that they are envied and adored by others because of their special powers of perception. And when someone disagrees with them it is because the others do not have special powers and are jealous of them and their special powers. I also think that if the FIE were to add a cape to the referees uniform, the referees would say 'why did it take you so long to give us the recognition we deserve!!'
Milenchev is the most goated referee to ever touch the sport. That’s not a fact it’s the truth😎🤫✅
Found the Bulgarian
Milenchev is extremely competent when he wants to be. Unfortunately for various reasons he often doesn't wish to be fair and competent. I've also heard some pretty iffy things about him with regards to bullying and sexism so...
Also the refereeing GOATs for sabre have to be the late great Zsolt Kaposvari and/or Papa Toure
Yea the fact China has a say in , some of the sly and unfair things in IOC doesn't suprise me. Plus I am baffled by the fact that, 2 counties that are at war with each other (Israeli and Palastine) Are allowed to compete in the Olympics, when both their countries leader are gonna be triarled for war crimes at the Hague.
Plus a Military dictatorship (North Korea) Has been allowed to compete despite its allied country, (Russia) being banned for its huge doping scandle. When North Korea has been accused of THE EXACT same thing.
Yea the olympic is worse than a UN delegation. And shows that the IOC is just not trustworthy and reapectsble in the world of sport.
I think that's a pretty bad take.
I am not a fencer, just a fan of it so I am not "in the know", BUT, your "negative" comments are ALL very common sense critiques. SO unfortunate that sucha beautiful sport with such great tradition is so corrupt and poorly administered.
Screaming 🤢🤮
Sad to said that this is the reason why I don't really like to watch man's sabre.
Every year during world and europe championship, every 4years at the olympics, same discussions, same statements on Saber. ==> Saber is total bullshit. The ref is making the fight, not the fencers. It's not their fault , it's because of the rules and the way the FIE wants to make it. Actually I'm not like everyone else on the 2 ref who worked on finales( The italian and the other one, Melenchev). They were very coherent in their decisions. They tried (as asked I think) to make saber more technical, they focused on lot of " attack on preparation" forcing fencer to franckly attack with blade on target to avoid bullshit run with "shortened arm" on the piste. But in all cases Saber is a bullshit fencing category. it has allways been like that. It's beautiful, it's fast, but a total no brainer. The fight is made by the ref, the way he ref, the way he decided to ref and the fencers has to modify their way to fence about the way the ref decided. It's not normal. They really need to come back on giving more " attaques simultanées" to force fencers to search technical solutions, like second intention. and not just I will attack 0.01 second faster than him.
Or doing like me, choose Epée( I praticeds all 3 armes) as career, no rules, just kill or being killed ;) ( 25 years fencer here)
Seems like you're getting too negative. I agree with the issues with Saber but you sound like everything is terrible. The number of athlete rules in the Olympic games have been this way for a while. This is not suddenly the same level as the issues as the referringnand corruption. Honestly, I am ok with changing the Olympic qualifications or keeping them.
He did start out with positives, though nowhere near as much time was devoted to them. I also didn't get the impression he rated every negative he brought up as being of the same seriousness.
@@tiltskillet7085 I agree but doesn't need to sound so depressed and tired.
To be fair he praised the actual event before diving into the dirty details. Fencing at Paris has been a great show put on by crooked people.
Russia sitting at home… one of best team don’t participate
It's sitting there...for a reason?
shrieking whiners acting like babies after each point = sabre
It seems in sabre, its more important to claim a point and turn to the ref more than actual fencing speaking for itself. Its embarrassing