After watching this older video I realized how I miss hearing the train whistle in the newer videos, Keith. It's really a happy sound. It makes me think of kids laughing and having a good time.
Hey Keith, one thing I have found useful on my mini pallet...I usually countersink the holes a little deeper than normal so I can face it off 4-5 times before I need to countersink them again.
If you use a spot drill first it not only pre countersinks the hole it guides the drill accurately. Also if it is in the wrong place the initial spot can be checked & the part can be saved.
Looks like a good job to sit down on, all those holes. A high back bar stool and a cold drink and belly up, living the life of Riley.....lol. Thanks for the video Keith. Always enjoyable. Looking forward to the follow up.
Thanks for another informative video. As usual your videos always have an introduction, an explanation, and a conclusion, no silly jokes or cooking food in the middle. Always a pleasure to watch and every word is clearly spoken and can be heard. Keep up the good work Keith.
Hi Kieth I made one of these mini pallets about a year ago and it has 182 holes, boy was that a pain. I chose to use 6 x 1 mm instead of the #10 because I wanted a bit more holding power and the tap was able to tap all the way through the 1 in stock. I taped all the holes with a cordless drill attached to the top of a hand tapping machine which saved a bunch of time.
I've been using it for years... showed it to a technician who was trained in CNC and had to do some manual drilling a while back... after he tried one hole, he was sold! ;^)
Hello Keith, Nice to see a milling project like before, between the other projects like the lathe renovation video's. First I didn't get it how you set up the pattern for the holes, but than I got it when you showed it when you programmed the DRO. When I see how much you can make yourselve with that milling machine and the lathe, it would be great to have also one. But here in the Netherlands there is no real market for those older machines. Mostly they where scrapped just like they do here with old good buildings. Anyway, again a great video and looking forward to the next one ! Many greetings from Roel.
Keith -- as you know-- I had to sell my machines-- now I have "spare time" -- just back from Comerica Park in Detroit to see a ballgame -- checked your channel and was pleased to see the "mini pallet" video. Saw the keyless chuck in the mill -- and I knew you liked it. I was also very pleased to hear you say where you got it. It is really a time-saver. I love the way you present your projects. If you worked for me I would put you in for a raise! Lou Cosyn
I worked piece work on milling machines in England 45 years plus,,, I,d never do it this way you made it look like really hard work mate,,, I'd give you plenty ove tips ,, them bridgeports are great for small work
This project has been on my list for awhile now. You've answered a lot of the questions I've had that's been stopping me from doing it. Looking forward to the hold down clamp video. Jason
Hi Keith, I will be doing one of these in the not too distant future, but since I don't have a DRO, I will have to do it with my dials. A bit tricky, but certainly doable. Thanks for the overview and demo of doing this. It helps me get a clearer picture of what I am in for. I'll need to make some suitable sized clamps, too, so I am looking forward to the next part. Joe
Since there is no real reason that the holes have to be precise, you could just lay out all of the holes and mark them and then just navigate to the mark and drill it. If it is off by a little bit, it will never matter one bit.
Great video! I would point out that the square root of two is 1.414... and 0.704 or whatever that is is sqrt(2)/2. That is because you have 45 deg angles between holes and that just happens to be the sine or cosine of 45 deg. This job is a classic "how do you attack your obstacles" problem. I think you did it the right way, because I find it much harder to drive the mill than to swap tools. Even with a DRO which I do not have. YMMV, as they say in car ads.
Nice job Keith. I made one a while back, time well spent I have used it numerous times since then. I did my order of operations a little different though, I drilled all the holes then came back and power tapped everything. I figured less tool and speed changes vs time to move the table.
With my mill being variable speed, that was not a big issue. And as I got into it, I ended up just switching between low and high range by using my back gears, which is a real simple flip of a lever. All in all, I think it would have taken me longer to navigate the moves three times than to change the tools out. Your mileage may vary though....
Very nice little pallet... took me a while to wrap my head around your 1.414 spacing... but finally the light turned on... looking forward to you making good use of it. ;) Thank you so much for sharing... stay healthy!
Thanks for a very inspiring video. I'm waiting for an eBay ALU block ordered just to make a pallet for my Micro Mill to handle Toolmakers vises as well as directly clamped stuff.
I love hearing you say that you are excited to give a new tool a try !!! Only a true master machinist like you would say that Keith !!! Another great video. Thanks for posting this.
Thanks for the video Keith, perfect timing, I am just about to build my own mini-pallet and have the same DRO and an aluminum plate I got online just came in so this video is a spot on match for my project. I like the diamond pattern idea and will use that on mine as well. Darn near a Deja Vu video as I had been planning this in my head and was just about to go to the paper layout, now I can skip all that as you did it for me already, thanks again Keith.
Nice video on using dro funtions and also another usefull adition to my "to do" list for when i get my mill(not long to go) thanks for sharing as always
Hi Keith, this video came at the right moment. I've planned to build my own pallet from aluminium (sorry for that, I'm European ;-)), with reinforced holes. I like to try something like E-Z Lok (threaded steel bushings) to make the holes more rigid. But it was the "Grid function" of your DRO - I've a similar one on my Lagun mill - and almost forgotten this important function. Thanks for giving us all this superb videos, keep going on... Best regards from Germany, Thomas
Thank you for showing the grid function on your DRO. I'm in the process of installing a full function DRO on my mill now. It's not the same brand, but I'm sure the grid function will be much the same.
I stick my plate in the vice vertically, putting the width on the Z axis. Face off the 2 end so you have parallel ends to indicate on. Then face off the main plate, both sides so THOSE are parallel. Then, pop those up on 123 blocks, strap it down, drill and counter bore your mounting holes, remove the strap downs (leave the plate on the blocks, with the blocks CLOSE to the mounting holes) then bolt the plate down and square off the remaining 2 sides with an endmill. Sure, you are working on "small" parts with a fixture plate but take GREAT care that you don't add any more error than can be helped. A couple of tenths here and there can QUICKLY add up to a couple of thou over mere inches.
Hey Keith, been thinking about making this, so this video was very informative for me, now I'm looking forward to the making of the hold down clamps!! Thanks for sharing!!! Kevin
when I heard that whistle it brought a smile to my face. I'd forgotten that you work in dreamland. I'm headed to Midwest Old Threashers in about a month. My own kind of dreamland. Nice work on the pallet btw.
I Have made a smaller version of the Mini pallet a few years ago. I got my hold down clamps from Little Machine Shop.com. They were made for a small milling machine and work escellent. Sure beats the tedious task of making them myself. Thanks for the great videos - Rod
I looked all around trying to find some small clamps instead of buying them but could not find any. Now several guys have pointed me towards where I can buy them. If course, I have already bought some stock to make them from now so I guess I will just make a few....
I made a plate a while ago but like your idea of the relief each side for vice use... might do that, altho my plate is thinner. I still need to make some small clamps. Nice job.
Nice video, thanks. Normally for one-of-parts hand operated machines are more efficient than CNC. But this is a good demonstration how CNC with a tool changer could reduce the machining time to only a few minutes also for such a single part. But we all like hand operated machines and sometimes we have to pay a price for that.
For sure, this project would be an excellent candidate for CNC. But, while there is not doubt that the machine time could be cut by some huge fraction, for a one off part, the time needed to draw it up in CAD, program the mill in CAM and then set up the mill for the job, you likely could still knock it out faster on a manual machine. At the most, there would not be much of a time savings. Now if you had multiples to make - it becomes a no brainer - CNC all the way!
For me and all others who are not very proficient in CNC programming you are certainly correct. For a proficient CNC guy this rel. simple hole pattern would not even need CAM processing. It probably could easily be written in g-code directly. And then I suspect that it would take such a person less time than using manual machining even for a single part with this simple pattern. But we all prefer watching you and not some CNC controller turning the hand wheels :-)
wow, just about a perfect vid! you have that rarest of youtube combos, skill, ability to show that skill well on cam, AND the ability to actually explain "who, what, where, when, and why", and do so in a manner that keeps the viewer interested. i seriously hope you teach the skill, Keith, as you have superb manner for doing so. first time viewer, but still an incredibly well earned subscription!! love the pallet idea as well, and will be watching the clamp production vid, lol. one question though, why not just hand tap that feral half dozen holes entirely, and eliminate any chance of the tap bouncing off the vice? would you think heli-coil inserts a decent idea (for longevity, steel on steel threads)? i figure that would provide the "hand it down to the grandkids" longevity of a steel example, with the handy heft of the aluminum variety. thanks for the vid, channel, and chance to "pick your brain"!!!
There would be no problem with running the taps in by hand, but I guess I get lazy when have that many to do! As for helicoils, i don't think they are needed for this application. Remember, we chose to make it out of aluminum so that the top can be dressed down as it wears or you mill into it. You are always going deeper into the threads, which are fresh as you go down.
Hey keith, I just bought and installed that DRO for my milling machine recently and just love it! I'm just new to this hobby and liked your first idea, and thought why not move the vise to 45 degrees and still use the bolt hole function but skip the holes that are not on the pallet? My 2 cents worth. Can't wait for more. Keep them coming!
You mentioned the 1" end mill. I had bought a special R8 adapter for my 1" end mill, one of the less expensive ones. It did work, but it seemed overall less solid of a set up than I expected - assuming, I did everything right on my end. This may not be fact, just what I experienced. Also I was trying to take a heavy cut because it was a 1" mill.
The biggest R8 collet I have been able to find is 7/8 - not sure that you can really get much bigger and have any meat left... You can get a 1" tool holder similar to like what I use on the horizontal mill, but it sticks out a lot farther.
Most people won't have to step the back of the pallet. Your mill vise is unusual in that it drives the movable jaw from the back rather than the bottom (Kurt style & the widely copied Chinese versions). The Kurt style allows you to move the jaws to the back of the vise blocks for some huge holding capability. How did you come to choose 1/4-20 stud size? I would have been tempted to go 5/16-18 or 3/8-16 so I could buy a standard size step block and clamp set to fit. I know Tom Lipton used 10-32 for one of his but he was looking to do some really small work. All work of course but my time building clamps is worth more than the $50 to buy a Chinese set off Amazon. Nice video, Keith. Everyone with a mill needs a couple of these.
I actually went with 10-24. No particular reason - that is just what Tom used. Even though they are small, I should be able to get all of the torque needed for the work I plan to do on this plate.
You know, I looked all over to buy some but could not find any. Too late now, I have already ordered some material to make them from so I am committed!
Maybe I’ve been in construction/ranching mode to long. I probably would have done the chamfering with a hand drill. Probably the same with the tapping too but with a guide. Holes normally tap pretty straight to the predrill.
There was also the trick with the needle pointer attached to the head that traveled on to plate that had the drawing attached to it. You'd move the table to where the needle marked X and you'd make your hole. But that was a DIY thing and i've never personally seen a commercial one (but i've no doubt there must have been something along the lines). And that worked too, quite nicely actually.
Hi just found and watched 2 videos, making the aluminium pallet and making the clamps (excellent), did you ever upload a video of them been used in anger, I have been unable to find it - help.
Keith you think that having a dedicated BP so I can have a horizontal milling attachment would be as good as say a Kearney Trecker. I just love that horizontal milled finish.
Curious, not for the whole grid, but for each row, would it be faster to drill the whole row, then tap the whole row? I'm thinking a lot less tool changes is faster.
Everybody comments on the chuck! I guess it is something different than the standard Kurt vise everybody uses these days. I guess I am just old school...
They invented CNC milling because machinists form unions and want to be paid more. That's why so much manufacturing is being done by robots and Chinese slave labor.
For production work, CNC has its advantages. And with the repetitious work involved in this project, it would be a good candidate for CNC. But by the time somebody has to take the time to draw it up in CAD, program the mill in CAM, setup the mill for the job, and run the job, it still very well may be faster to just knock it out by hand (assuming you were only going to make one....)
Great Video as is you norm. That's a tool I use a lot got four of them two for the manual and two for the CNC most of the time I set up the job ( very small in my case ) off the machine in the surface plate then just indicat the pallet Looking at your DRO screen have you left the transport protector on there looks to be a tab lower right , the protector if it is still on is bubbling making viewing for you a bit odd, but it may be my lamps acting up. Could do with your casting skills here at my supplier nice steam chest cover with cast on bosses , alas it's to big for the steam chest , that's after blow holes in the cylinder , not a happy Stuart today , should have made it all from bar stock , I have the machines to do it but I like the look of castings , it's a scale beam engine Looking forwards to more video's from you better that the soaps the boss looks at iPad linked to hearing aids bliss Stuart
Yes, I left the protector on the screen. I can see though it fine and figured it is protecting it in the machine shop. I may pull it off one day. As for castings, look up Cattail Foundry - they specialize in making one-off parts for steam engines and such. Great guys to work with, just a bit hard to communicate with since they are Amish. They do have a phone number though. Google them....
Because there is wear in the ways on it. While it is not as bad as a lot of mills I have used, it could use a good tear down, re scraping, and rebuild. Maybe a project one of these days....
Keith, as usual a great video. I was wondering why you exchange the bits 3 times instead of just drilling all the holes, then counter sink and finally tap? Excuse the question but as an amature am I missing something?
Very sensible thought, that's the way I did it on mine.:>) With the DRO you can go to the next hole but also to the previous one, so drill all your holes, then go backwards to countersink, then forward again to tap. Saves oodles of time.
Keith's method works about as fast when you are using a keyless chuck - and, since he has to manually move the table, even with DROs, it guarantees that he's concentric for every operation.
It is all a matter of preference. The bottom line is that I could change the tools out faster than I could navigate to each hole three times. In the end, either way would give you the same end results, but I think I was saving time the way I was doing it. If it was CNC and the move between holes was faster, then it would be best to do it like you suggest.
I noticed Keith how when you were changing speeds with that mill how you didn't need to stop it and fiddle with gear selectors or moving belts to different pulley positions like others with more bridgeport-style mills have to do. That mill has on-the-fly speed changing and it seems like its 'stepless' or 'continuously variable' too, am I right? That would be a nice feature to make drilling and tapping go a bit faster without having to stop the machine to change gears or switch belt pulleys. Eyes about bugged out watching how fast you were running tap when doing the power tapping! XD Really scared there for a second we were going to be seeing you wind up breaking your tap and then getting to see you extract it out! But what do I know, I've not ever done any tapping! Drilling and countersinking, yes. Tapping, no, I have no experience with. :( Even if it may seem like it takes longer to fully drill, countersink, and tap each hole individually before moving onto the next one, I do like that method better than drilling all the holes first, then all the counter sinking, then finally all the tapping because doing all three operations at once for each individual hole, you're not moving the table around near as much and mill's quill is staying precisely on center of each hole until each hole is fully drilled and tapped. While such precision isn't that critical when making a clamping pallet, I can tell it is a good habit to get into so that when drilling and tapping multiple holes on project, revenue workpieces, each hole is more precisely located and better finished.
My Wells-Index mill has a nice variable speed head on it. Bridgeport offered a similar type setup, so it is not unheard of to the Bridgeport guys. The mill I learned on had belts you had to move and you get used to doing it. As I progressed, I ended up running the drill bit a bit faster and then just switching the head into the back gears to slow down to do the tapping - which was even easier. With the back gears, there are two ranges of speed that you have access to.
Excellent. I am curious though as to whether the variable speed option has a downside of possibly stalling when making very, very heavy cuts or drilling, that the constant, stepped speed would be more resistant to..
Can't say that I have attempted what I would call very heavy cutting. I also don't know exactly how the variable speed is configured, but it seems pretty robust. Using high and low range it can go from about 60 rpm to maybe 3000 rpm. Obviously there would be more torque at 60 than 3000 and you can probably find a suitable amount for any given tool that is reasonable for the hp you have?
I would have just put some countersunk holes in it and bolted it straight to the mill table and skip the vise. Seems to me whenever I get stuff much up over the vise i start running out of room for mills, bits and the parts I am working on. Maybe I just work on parts that are too big though. lol
For mini work, I doubt it will be a huge problem. The reason I used the vise is because most of the time the vise is already on the mill and that way I don't have to pull it off to use it.
I have used our chevalier for a few years for keyways, flats, and other things we mill in shafts but didn't know you could tap holes with it. So what do you do? It looked like you pulled the handle down to start it and then the tap pulled itself and when you reversed it, it pushes itself back and I guess you keep a little pressure on the handle before it backs all the way out? Is this a correct explanation of what happened in the video?
You have it pretty much. To start, you just put a little pressure on the quill and once it starts, it will feed itself down. Then reverse teh spindle and it backs out. Best to use a machine tap made for power tapping and not your every day hand tap.
Nice, but do you trust your wise jaws to have a high precision height? I'm thinking its better to trust parallels instead. In that case you should probably also machine the bottom surface. Or what do you think?
Thanks for the great video. I was surprised to see you level it off the tops of the vice jaws. Do you find that it's still level when you take it on and off?
After watching this older video I realized how I miss hearing the train whistle in the newer videos, Keith. It's really a happy sound. It makes me think of kids laughing and having a good time.
Hey Keith, one thing I have found useful on my mini pallet...I usually countersink the holes a little deeper than normal so I can face it off 4-5 times before I need to countersink them again.
Good to know - next time I countersink them, I will keep that in mind.
that is thinking ahead
If you use a spot drill first it not only pre countersinks the hole it guides the drill accurately. Also if it is in the wrong place the initial spot can be checked & the part can be saved.
Looks like a good job to sit down on, all those holes. A high back bar stool and a cold drink and belly up, living the life of Riley.....lol. Thanks for the video Keith. Always enjoyable. Looking forward to the follow up.
If only I had an air conditioner in the shop. Then it would have been perfect!
Thanks for another informative video. As usual your videos always have an introduction, an explanation, and a conclusion, no silly jokes or cooking food in the middle. Always a pleasure to watch and every word is clearly spoken and can be heard. Keep up the good work Keith.
Hi Kieth
I made one of these mini pallets about a year ago and it has 182 holes, boy was that a pain. I chose to use 6 x 1 mm instead of the #10 because I wanted a bit more holding power and the tap was able to tap all the way through the 1 in stock. I taped all the holes with a cordless drill attached to the top of a hand tapping machine which saved a bunch of time.
Very nice. I started to make the holes 1/4"-20 but decided to just use the 10-24 size.
Great job Keith, I made me one 12×18, 158 holes 3/8-16. A lot of work, great video.
The “chips) on the surface are a typical conventional milling finish. A light climb cut in the reverse direction will produce a superior finish.
love the 'piece of tape'' thats the manual DRO even i can afford to own, been using it for years!
What can I say - it works!
I've been using it for years... showed it to a technician who was trained in CNC and had to do some manual drilling a while back... after he tried one hole, he was sold! ;^)
Hello Keith,
Nice to see a milling project like before, between the other projects like the lathe renovation video's. First I didn't get it how you set up the pattern for the holes, but than I got it when you showed it when you programmed the DRO.
When I see how much you can make yourselve with that milling machine and the lathe, it would be great to have also one. But here in the Netherlands there is no real market for those older machines. Mostly they where scrapped just like they do here with old good buildings.
Anyway, again a great video and looking forward to the next one !
Many greetings from Roel.
Thank you for the comment!
Keith -- as you know-- I had to sell my machines-- now I have "spare time" -- just back from Comerica Park in Detroit to see a ballgame -- checked your channel and was pleased to see the "mini pallet" video. Saw the keyless chuck in the mill -- and I knew you liked it. I was also very pleased to hear you say where you got it. It is really a time-saver. I love the way you present your projects. If you worked for me I would put you in for a raise! Lou Cosyn
I worked piece work on milling machines in England 45 years plus,,, I,d never do it this way you made it look like really hard work mate,,, I'd give you plenty ove tips ,, them bridgeports are great for small work
This project has been on my list for awhile now. You've answered a lot of the questions I've had that's been stopping me from doing it. Looking forward to the hold down clamp video. Jason
No excuses now - get out in the shop and make one!
Right now I can't do much in the shop. I've got a big mess waiting for that BIG monarch to arrive from Texas!
Great demo of the DRO function. Having never used one I didn't realize they had that function but it makes sense now. Thanks again Keith.
A DRO is very handy on a mill!
Hi Keith,
I will be doing one of these in the not too distant future, but since I don't have a DRO, I will have to do it with my dials. A bit tricky, but certainly doable.
Thanks for the overview and demo of doing this. It helps me get a clearer picture of what I am in for.
I'll need to make some suitable sized clamps, too, so I am looking forward to the next part.
Joe
Since there is no real reason that the holes have to be precise, you could just lay out all of the holes and mark them and then just navigate to the mark and drill it. If it is off by a little bit, it will never matter one bit.
Great video! I would point out that the square root of two is 1.414... and 0.704 or whatever that is is sqrt(2)/2. That is because you have 45 deg angles between holes and that just happens to be the sine or cosine of 45 deg. This job is a classic "how do you attack your obstacles" problem. I think you did it the right way, because I find it much harder to drive the mill than to swap tools. Even with a DRO which I do not have. YMMV, as they say in car ads.
Thanks Juan - I am quite positive that I can change tools faster than drive to the holes. But, it does not matter what way you do it....
Nice job Keith. I made one a while back, time well spent I have used it numerous times since then. I did my order of operations a little different though, I drilled all the holes then came back and power tapped everything. I figured less tool and speed changes vs time to move the table.
With my mill being variable speed, that was not a big issue. And as I got into it, I ended up just switching between low and high range by using my back gears, which is a real simple flip of a lever. All in all, I think it would have taken me longer to navigate the moves three times than to change the tools out. Your mileage may vary though....
Fantastic job you did there. Bravo! Thank you for showing us the process and misc tips!
Very nice little pallet... took me a while to wrap my head around your 1.414 spacing... but finally the light turned on... looking forward to you making good use of it. ;)
Thank you so much for sharing... stay healthy!
Yeah, I know, ding, ding, ding - and the light bulb goes off....
Nice job Keith. That will be very useful on small jobs. It could be used clamped direct' to the table as well. regards from the UK
Yes, you could clamp it directly to the table. I figure that with my vise usually already being on the mill, better to just have it sit in there.
I've wanted to do this for quite a while. Enjoyed the DRO primer, too.
No excuses now - get out in the shop and make one!
Thanks for a very inspiring video. I'm waiting for an eBay ALU block ordered just to make a pallet for my Micro Mill to handle Toolmakers vises as well as directly clamped stuff.
I love hearing you say that you are excited to give a new tool a try !!!
Only a true master machinist like you would say that Keith !!!
Another great video. Thanks for posting this.
Thanks Steven!
Thanks for the video Keith, perfect timing, I am just about to build my own mini-pallet and have the same DRO and an aluminum plate I got online just came in so this video is a spot on match for my project. I like the diamond pattern idea and will use that on mine as well. Darn near a Deja Vu video as I had been planning this in my head and was just about to go to the paper layout, now I can skip all that as you did it for me already, thanks again Keith.
Glad that the timing was spot on for you! Have fun building yours!
Nice video on using dro funtions and also another usefull adition to my "to do" list for when i get my mill(not long to go) thanks for sharing as always
Can't wait to see how you make the hold down clamps!
I hope to do that this Saturday!
Hi Keith, this video came at the right moment. I've planned to build my own pallet from aluminium (sorry for that, I'm European ;-)), with reinforced holes. I like to try something like E-Z Lok (threaded steel bushings) to make the holes more rigid. But it was the "Grid function" of your DRO - I've a similar one on my Lagun mill - and almost forgotten this important function. Thanks for giving us all this superb videos, keep going on...
Best regards from Germany, Thomas
My pleasure. I sometimes forget all the cool stuff my DRO will do for me if I will let it!
Thank you for showing the grid function on your DRO. I'm in the process of installing a full function DRO on my mill now. It's not the same brand, but I'm sure the grid function will be much the same.
Wow Keith; You ARE the man! Very fun to watch video!
Thanks Roy.
I stick my plate in the vice vertically, putting the width on the Z axis. Face off the 2 end so you have parallel ends to indicate on. Then face off the main plate, both sides so THOSE are parallel. Then, pop those up on 123 blocks, strap it down, drill and counter bore your mounting holes, remove the strap downs (leave the plate on the blocks, with the blocks CLOSE to the mounting holes) then bolt the plate down and square off the remaining 2 sides with an endmill.
Sure, you are working on "small" parts with a fixture plate but take GREAT care that you don't add any more error than can be helped. A couple of tenths here and there can QUICKLY add up to a couple of thou over mere inches.
Hey Keith, been thinking about making this, so this video was very informative for me, now I'm looking forward to the making of the hold down clamps!! Thanks for sharing!!!
Kevin
Thanks Kevin!
when I heard that whistle it brought a smile to my face. I'd forgotten that you work in dreamland. I'm headed to Midwest Old Threashers in about a month. My own kind of dreamland. Nice work on the pallet btw.
Yes, working at the museum is always fun!
Well done .... I look forward to see the pallet in use ....
Coming soon to a RUclips video near you!
Hi Keith,
I don't have a DRO but this was informative and well done. Even I could understand. Yes, very well done!!!!
Bob
Thanks Bob. A DRO is a real useful thing on a milling machine. I would hate to go back to not having one....
I am going to make my own pallet, I have an Idea of what I want to do, but it's great to see how others went about it. thanks for sharing.
My pleasure. Hope yours turns out just like you want!
Very nice video Keith cant wait for the clamps.
I hope to work on those this weekend!
I Have made a smaller version of the Mini pallet a few years ago. I got my hold down
clamps from Little Machine Shop.com. They were made for a small milling machine
and work escellent. Sure beats the tedious task of making them myself.
Thanks for the great videos - Rod
I looked all around trying to find some small clamps instead of buying them but could not find any. Now several guys have pointed me towards where I can buy them. If course, I have already bought some stock to make them from now so I guess I will just make a few....
Always nice to see you at work.
Thank you for your videos !
Thanks for watching!
I made a plate a while ago but like your idea of the relief each side for vice use... might do that, altho my plate is thinner. I still need to make some small clamps.
Nice job.
By using the cutouts, I am able to have a wider pallet than what I would have with a piece that fit down in the vise.
Very Cool !!! Now to see what you use it on.
Coming soon!
Like the way you put the DRO up in the corner of the shot.
Glad that you liked that!
Nice job Keith!! I see a first project for me once I finish the restore on my Series 1 which is nearly complete!
Thanks again as always!! :-D
This would make a great first project!
Great job Keith. Always love your machining videos :)
Thanks - I always love doing machining videos. That means I am doing some machining work!
That will sure come in handy for the small work.
Yes, it will!
Nice video, thanks. Normally for one-of-parts hand operated machines are more efficient than CNC. But this is a good demonstration how CNC with a tool changer could reduce the machining time to only a few minutes also for such a single part. But we all like hand operated machines and sometimes we have to pay a price for that.
For sure, this project would be an excellent candidate for CNC. But, while there is not doubt that the machine time could be cut by some huge fraction, for a one off part, the time needed to draw it up in CAD, program the mill in CAM and then set up the mill for the job, you likely could still knock it out faster on a manual machine. At the most, there would not be much of a time savings. Now if you had multiples to make - it becomes a no brainer - CNC all the way!
For me and all others who are not very proficient in CNC programming you are certainly correct. For a proficient CNC guy this rel. simple hole pattern would not even need CAM processing. It probably could easily be written in g-code directly. And then I suspect that it would take such a person less time than using manual machining even for a single part with this simple pattern. But we all prefer watching you and not some CNC controller turning the hand wheels :-)
I wish I had your toys!
Thanks for letting me enjoy them gratuitously.
My pleasure!
wow, just about a perfect vid! you have that rarest of youtube combos, skill, ability to show that skill well on cam, AND the ability to actually explain "who, what, where, when, and why", and do so in a manner that keeps the viewer interested. i seriously hope you teach the skill, Keith, as you have superb manner for doing so. first time viewer, but still an incredibly well earned subscription!!
love the pallet idea as well, and will be watching the clamp production vid, lol. one question though, why not just hand tap that feral half dozen holes entirely, and eliminate any chance of the tap bouncing off the vice? would you think heli-coil inserts a decent idea (for longevity, steel on steel threads)? i figure that would provide the "hand it down to the grandkids" longevity of a steel example, with the handy heft of the aluminum variety. thanks for the vid, channel, and chance to "pick your brain"!!!
There would be no problem with running the taps in by hand, but I guess I get lazy when have that many to do! As for helicoils, i don't think they are needed for this application. Remember, we chose to make it out of aluminum so that the top can be dressed down as it wears or you mill into it. You are always going deeper into the threads, which are fresh as you go down.
Hey keith, I just bought and installed that DRO for my milling machine recently and just love it! I'm just new to this hobby and liked your first idea, and thought why not move the vise to 45 degrees and still use the bolt hole function but skip the holes that are not on the pallet? My 2 cents worth. Can't wait for more. Keep them coming!
You could move the vise 45, but doing so would end up with a bunch of holes in the DRO that would not actually be drilled.
very awesome Keith.
Thanks John!
didn't know the dro would do that,great video Keith
The DRO will do that and a LOT more!
Hi Keith. Thanks for this one. I see a project here that I need to do.Best regards.Bob
My pleasure Bob!
Beautifully Done!
Thanks Jeff!
outstanding project & video
Thank you!
Super good job Keith , Thumbs up !
Thanks Shawn!
Interesting. Not sure what it is for but I am sure I will see its use as I rarely miss one of your videos Keith
You will be seeing it a lot now that I have it!
Look forward to it Keith
thank you, keith, for the dro capability demo!
thanks for the video,
-toly
Thanks Toly!
Yep, a lot of holes to get through. It'll be a nice addition to your tool box. When it gets a little beat up, just face and countersink again.
Yep, that is the nice thing about this design - just face it off and you have a fresh face again!
Great project, interesting to see how you did it. Keep on keeping on.
Thanks!
You mentioned the 1" end mill. I had bought a special R8 adapter for my 1" end mill, one of the less expensive ones. It did work, but it seemed overall less solid of a set up than I expected - assuming, I did everything right on my end. This may not be fact, just what I experienced. Also I was trying to take a heavy cut because it was a 1" mill.
The biggest R8 collet I have been able to find is 7/8 - not sure that you can really get much bigger and have any meat left... You can get a 1" tool holder similar to like what I use on the horizontal mill, but it sticks out a lot farther.
Yes Keith, it was one of the extended type, an R8 with a longer extension accepting the 1" mill. I explained it wrong, sorry about the confusion.
Cool project... nice work.
Thanks Ron!
Four years later,
I have the same DRO. Love it. You found a manual, where?
Most people won't have to step the back of the pallet. Your mill vise is unusual in that it drives the movable jaw from the back rather than the bottom (Kurt style & the widely copied Chinese versions). The Kurt style allows you to move the jaws to the back of the vise blocks for some huge holding capability.
How did you come to choose 1/4-20 stud size? I would have been tempted to go 5/16-18 or 3/8-16 so I could buy a standard size step block and clamp set to fit. I know Tom Lipton used 10-32 for one of his but he was looking to do some really small work. All work of course but my time building clamps is worth more than the $50 to buy a Chinese set off Amazon.
Nice video, Keith. Everyone with a mill needs a couple of these.
I actually went with 10-24. No particular reason - that is just what Tom used. Even though they are small, I should be able to get all of the torque needed for the work I plan to do on this plate.
Thanks fore the Video very fine tool to make I look forward to the next video.
Bosse from Sweden
Thanks for watching!
Takes a lot of patience; you seem to have it! Greg
Patience is in me, but I have to work real hard to force it to want to do jobs like this....
Great video Keith, I enjoyed it, always learn something!
Thanks - glad that you enjoyed!
Great video!! Thanks for sharing
If you don't feel like making the hold down clamps, take a look at Sherline. They sell them as an accessory for their mini-mill.
You know, I looked all over to buy some but could not find any. Too late now, I have already ordered some material to make them from so I am committed!
Oh well, it'll be fun to watch you make them. In case you change your mind here's a link:
sherline.com/product/3013-step-block-hold-down-set/
Beau travail !
Georges
Great project
Maybe I’ve been in construction/ranching mode to long. I probably would have done the chamfering with a hand drill. Probably the same with the tapping too but with a guide. Holes normally tap pretty straight to the predrill.
Before DRO's we draw every hole on paper to scale then glued it on the workpiece. Far easyer nowadays. Nice work.:)
There was also the trick with the needle pointer attached to the head that traveled on to plate that had the drawing attached to it. You'd move the table to where the needle marked X and you'd make your hole. But that was a DIY thing and i've never personally seen a commercial one (but i've no doubt there must have been something along the lines). And that worked too, quite nicely actually.
Our you could count the distance moved on the dial on the hand wheel - just like a lathe. Done that many times as well....
Hi just found and watched 2 videos, making the aluminium pallet and making the clamps (excellent), did you ever upload a video of them been used in anger, I have been unable to find it - help.
Keith you think that having a dedicated BP so I can have a horizontal milling attachment would be as good as say a Kearney Trecker. I just love that horizontal milled finish.
Curious, not for the whole grid, but for each row, would it be faster to drill the whole row, then tap the whole row? I'm thinking a lot less tool changes is faster.
Keith,
Love the picture-in-picture action!
Thanks for your efforts, fascinating as always.
Thanks Ian!
nice project
Thanks!
Great video ! Nice job
Bonjour de France très content de vous revoir après un déménagement et des ennuis de santé
Bonne soirée
Y G
Beautiful!
As a Toledoan, I can't help but notice your where your vise is from
Everybody comments on the chuck! I guess it is something different than the standard Kurt vise everybody uses these days. I guess I am just old school...
I can tell that index is a tight machine by how little the y-axis DRO moves when you lock it. Ours moves a few thou.
Don't get me wrong, it has a few issues, but in the grand scheme of things, it is not bad at all!
Lovely job Keith, although it makes you realise why they invented CNC machining!!!
They invented CNC milling because machinists form unions and want to be paid more. That's why so much manufacturing is being done by robots and Chinese slave labor.
For production work, CNC has its advantages. And with the repetitious work involved in this project, it would be a good candidate for CNC. But by the time somebody has to take the time to draw it up in CAD, program the mill in CAM, setup the mill for the job, and run the job, it still very well may be faster to just knock it out by hand (assuming you were only going to make one....)
THANK YOU...for sharing.
As always, thank YOU For watching!
Great Video as is you norm.
That's a tool I use a lot got four of them two for the manual and two for the CNC most of the time I set up the job ( very small in my case ) off the machine in the surface plate then just indicat the pallet
Looking at your DRO screen have you left the transport protector on there looks to be a tab lower right , the protector if it is still on is bubbling making viewing for you a bit odd, but it may be my lamps acting up.
Could do with your casting skills here at my supplier nice steam chest cover with cast on bosses , alas it's to big for the steam chest , that's after blow holes in the cylinder , not a happy Stuart today , should have made it all from bar stock , I have the machines to do it but I like the look of castings , it's a scale beam engine
Looking forwards to more video's from you better that the soaps the boss looks at iPad linked to hearing aids bliss
Stuart
Yes, I left the protector on the screen. I can see though it fine and figured it is protecting it in the machine shop. I may pull it off one day. As for castings, look up Cattail Foundry - they specialize in making one-off parts for steam engines and such. Great guys to work with, just a bit hard to communicate with since they are Amish. They do have a phone number though. Google them....
Bit far for me Keith as I am in the UK
Understand on the protector
Thanks for the reply
Good job
Another awesome video. I've noticed before though; why does your DRO jump .0002" when you lock the table?
Because there is wear in the ways on it. While it is not as bad as a lot of mills I have used, it could use a good tear down, re scraping, and rebuild. Maybe a project one of these days....
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org I figured that's all it was, but not being anything like a machinist I wasn't sure
It looks like the Niagra end mill needs some WD-40 or similar cutting oil when used on aluminum.
It would have helped.
Keith, as usual a great video. I was wondering why you exchange the bits 3 times instead of just drilling all the holes, then counter sink and finally tap? Excuse the question but as an amature am I missing something?
Very sensible thought, that's the way I did it on mine.:>) With the DRO you can go to the next hole but also to the previous one, so drill all your holes, then go backwards to countersink, then forward again to tap. Saves oodles of time.
Keith's method works about as fast when you are using a keyless chuck - and, since he has to manually move the table, even with DROs, it guarantees that he's concentric for every operation.
Good point!
It is all a matter of preference. The bottom line is that I could change the tools out faster than I could navigate to each hole three times. In the end, either way would give you the same end results, but I think I was saving time the way I was doing it. If it was CNC and the move between holes was faster, then it would be best to do it like you suggest.
I noticed Keith how when you were changing speeds with that mill how you didn't need to stop it and fiddle with gear selectors or moving belts to different pulley positions like others with more bridgeport-style mills have to do. That mill has on-the-fly speed changing and it seems like its 'stepless' or 'continuously variable' too, am I right? That would be a nice feature to make drilling and tapping go a bit faster without having to stop the machine to change gears or switch belt pulleys.
Eyes about bugged out watching how fast you were running tap when doing the power tapping! XD Really scared there for a second we were going to be seeing you wind up breaking your tap and then getting to see you extract it out! But what do I know, I've not ever done any tapping! Drilling and countersinking, yes. Tapping, no, I have no experience with. :(
Even if it may seem like it takes longer to fully drill, countersink, and tap each hole individually before moving onto the next one, I do like that method better than drilling all the holes first, then all the counter sinking, then finally all the tapping because doing all three operations at once for each individual hole, you're not moving the table around near as much and mill's quill is staying precisely on center of each hole until each hole is fully drilled and tapped. While such precision isn't that critical when making a clamping pallet, I can tell it is a good habit to get into so that when drilling and tapping multiple holes on project, revenue workpieces, each hole is more precisely located and better finished.
My Wells-Index mill has a nice variable speed head on it. Bridgeport offered a similar type setup, so it is not unheard of to the Bridgeport guys. The mill I learned on had belts you had to move and you get used to doing it. As I progressed, I ended up running the drill bit a bit faster and then just switching the head into the back gears to slow down to do the tapping - which was even easier. With the back gears, there are two ranges of speed that you have access to.
My Bridget clone has it and in fact I was told to only change the variable speed when it is moving. That doesn't go for changing from hi to lo though.
Excellent. I am curious though as to whether the variable speed option has a downside of possibly stalling when making very, very heavy cuts or drilling, that the constant, stepped speed would be more resistant to..
Can't say that I have attempted what I would call very heavy cutting. I also don't know exactly how the variable speed is configured, but it seems pretty robust. Using high and low range it can go from about 60 rpm to maybe 3000 rpm. Obviously there would be more torque at 60 than 3000 and you can probably find a suitable amount for any given tool that is reasonable for the hp you have?
1.414 seems to be a magic number. That's the figure for peak AC power from a transformer.
Matt Fields it's sqrt 2 or 2^½
I would have just put some countersunk holes in it and bolted it straight to the mill table and skip the vise. Seems to me whenever I get stuff much up over the vise i start running out of room for mills, bits and the parts I am working on. Maybe I just work on parts that are too big though. lol
For mini work, I doubt it will be a huge problem. The reason I used the vise is because most of the time the vise is already on the mill and that way I don't have to pull it off to use it.
I have used our chevalier for a few years for keyways, flats, and other things we mill in shafts but didn't know you could tap holes with it. So what do you do? It looked like you pulled the handle down to start it and then the tap pulled itself and when you reversed it, it pushes itself back and I guess you keep a little pressure on the handle before it backs all the way out? Is this a correct explanation of what happened in the video?
You have it pretty much. To start, you just put a little pressure on the quill and once it starts, it will feed itself down. Then reverse teh spindle and it backs out. Best to use a machine tap made for power tapping and not your every day hand tap.
+Keith Rucker - VintageMachinery.org cool, thank you sir.
32.35 thread pulls himself drill chuck?
Thank you!
what would the cost be to have a piece like that done?
Nice, but do you trust your wise jaws to have a high precision height? I'm thinking its better to trust parallels instead. In that case you should probably also machine the bottom surface. Or what do you think?
The bottom of the milled sections in the bottom are machined. Since my vise jaws were milled flat in the mill, they should sit down just right.
Thanks for the great video. I was surprised to see you level it off the tops of the vice jaws. Do you find that it's still level when you take it on and off?
The tops of my mill vise are milled flat on the vise, so yes, it will clamp down flat. If not, you can always fuzz a bit off the top and level it up.
Do you remember where you ordered your aluminum from? I have been contemplating a mini pallet for myself at work? Thanks T
I am sure I would have drilled all of the holes before doing an tapping. I am a mechanic that has taped much in my lifetime, I still do. Ron W4BIN
Useful pallet
Indeed - Thank you!
I made one, Thank you sir.