The fair comparation is Carrera 4S 450HP VS Taycan 4s. The lap time was win in straights and on the exit of the corner where in low grip conditions a 4WD car has better exit. Also the tyres could make a difference. To be fair both cars should have the same tyres: Michelin 4S OR PZERO, but Michelin 4s is better in rain then Pirelli.
I understand that the base prices of the featured Taycan and 911 are similar, so an argument could be made that for around the same money the Taycan is quicker in those conditions. However, surely a more interesting and relevant comparison would be a Taycan 4S vs a Panamera 4S and 4S E-Hybrid. A three way (unbiased) comparison covering a journey of several hundred miles on motorways and B roads with a track shoot out at the end would make an excellent feature. More broadly, I understand this series of 5th gear is all about promoting EV's, which is a great thing, but only as long as the integrity is there. Let's be more critical and really put them to the test, not just run with the narrative.
@@trevorberridge6079 never saw it on a car show before. I’m used to it in video games but I thought nobody would do this on TV at least on french TV, given the time it takes or the guided camera, etc. Would be awesome for rallye for exemple.
2wd VS. 4wd in the wet? Hope you do a dry lap too! Otherwise, I’d say there are either political or economical interests lurking behind this little clip.
@@totoianugheorghelucian488 Wouldn't be surprised, same here in Sweden. Volvo's dream scenario.. "What if there's a way to make EVERYONE scrap their old car & buy a new RIGHT NOW..."
I like theses comments. there is literally a ton of videos discrediting EVs for decades. VS One video where one EV Porsche beats another Porsche because they had the two cars for a shoot they didn’t have the time to wait until it dries up or ask Porsche another car and redo all the insurance for the shoot… “IT’S A MASSIVE SCALE CONSPIRACY” 😅
That’s a phenomenal lap time in the wet. As I recall another magazine only got a 992 carrera S around there in the dry a couple of seconds faster than that Taycan. And it’s wet a lot in the uk so a wholly relevant comparison.
@@raedjibrail doesn’t seem to work, either, unfortunately. Signed up for a trial of Discovery+ in the hopes of accessing the show but apparently US and UK subscriptions don’t have the same content
Every video I've seen (UK) on this car or even a mention of it, have All said the correct way. I personally thought it was as Jason said, Taycan. Maybe if they were American... 🤔
@@resnonverba137 - Then I can't really say much, I've honestly heard it being said correctly, like Every time. I'm sure I've heard an American butcher it and call it 'Tay-Can'.
It’s interesting to see so many people talking about boring EV’s on this channel. Drive a Taycan and then tell me it’s a boring car to drive. They ‘feel’ like a Porsche, they’re lightening quick and their instant torque response is ridiculous. The grip out of corners is superb. They do lack the theatre of the sound of a petrol engine, but they are so far from being ‘boring’ to drive that it’s not funny. Note also that a Taycan can do circa 20 laps of a normal track given it’s 800v architecture and excellent cooling and Porsche designed in a lot of slack to ensure owners won’t be disappointed. Yes we will miss the sound of an engine, but electric doesn’t have to be dull and imo the Taycan is absolute proof of that.
very impressive from the taycan with the extra weight on a damp track, was the 911 the Carrera 2 or the Carrera 4? feel like the wet conditions would hamper the 911 slightly if it's only rear wheel drive
OMG flashback. . . You look too much like Peter Wherett. No offence but scary. PS great comparo. The 'Estate' is really a hatchback to look at IMO. Look forward to a test against the Tesla Model Y performance v Taycan Estate. That would be awesome or even the model X performance . . . How about it guys? Love your show. Watching on from South Australia.
Seems like quite a few missed the fine details of this test. 1st, comparing the Taycan 4S Cross Turismo against the 911 base model. Since the 911 is quite a bit lighter, and quite a bit more expensive, it makes total sense to test similar performing cars to one another. Just to see if the handling of the Taycan can compete with the 911. 2nd, A lot of you complain about the rain. Well if you see during all the inside shots of the timed laps, it's not raining. So those outside shots with the wipers on and everything, must be B-roll shots made either before or after they actually did the lap. So it's not actually raining while the timed lap took place. And RWD steers better in the wet anyway, but loose out on acceleration, but it doesn't look like Jason has much of an issue putting the power down in the 911. Either way, that's the nature of the game, a 911 4S would be far more expensive than that Taycan 4S. So for the same money you could get a Taycan turbo, which still would beat that 911 4S, even more, probably. This will of course vary around the world, but where I live, I can get a near fully spec'ed out Taycan turbo for the price of a totally base 911 Carrera 4S. And basically that's what I did. And I've since then driven a 911 (992) Carrera 4S back to back with my Taycan turbo, and that 911 had no chance. It's down 200 horses, so I actually didn't think it could either, but I was surprised when I drove the 911 how low on power it felt. It was, to be fair a hillclimb. But with a lot of tight hairpin turns that I expected the 911 to excel in. So all in all, I think this was a great test. Not because the Taycan won, but because they managed to show how well the Taycan handles itself on a track. And I can safely say it does. It has no business handling that well being that heavy, so hats of to the brilliant engineers at Porsche making that car so brilliant. Now, that doesn't make the 911 any less brilliant. The new GT3 is an engineering marvel. Beating almost anything around almost any track. And Porsche seem to have something that excels in every driving scenario out there. They may get beaten in some events, but no brand has that many cars in the top, besides Porsche.
Surely you guys realise that pitting a turbocharged RWD against a 4 WHEEL DRIVE EV on a WET TRACK is not exactly anything close to a fair fight is it??? Cmon guys, you are supposed to be automotive journalists, surely stuff like this should be considered and videos like these made in better conditions, or at the very least, MENTIONED in your videos so the less astute understand the lack of a level playing field
Multiple reviewers have confirmed it: the taycan is just a better car than the 911. Even the 911 can not compete with the fundamental advantages of electric motors. Now what would be interesting to see in the coming years is the electric version of the 911 ! That would probably be even better.
multiple reviewers have also concluded its not. It’s whatever set of criteria you prioritise. For this comparison the the sensible thing would have been s vs s and 4 vs 4. A bit meaningless really
@@jonfrench7133 yes, you are right this is not a fair comparison. However I have read and viewed many review and tests of the Taycan. And it is very clear that the general feedback is that the Taycan is a better car than the 911. The 911 is a very good car, but it is just not possible to compete with the advantages of an electric motor. That's why it will be very interesting to see when porsche combines the advantages of the 911 with the advantages of an EV.
@@mmistermusic great to have a discussion on this. It really does depend on your criteria, i’ve not driven a taycan that offers the the nimbleness and agility of the 992 and this on your toes feel is uber important to me 👍
Not 1½ seconds faster Jason. 2.41 seconds faster. Petrol 911 spanked by all electric Taycan, which is currently the best selling Porsche ... IN THE WORLD!
EV cars fast and effective but boring, IMHO. I think that the perspective next 911 will be entirely electric will be extremely dangerous for Porsche . Hopefully they’ll chose the hybrid route before doing such a bold move to full electric for an car that, even if slower than many other even cheaper sport cars, still benefits the racing heritage that the iconic flat 6 brings with it
It's not a fair test for the 911. The Taycan is like a 4x4 with 4 electrical motors, one per wheels. And you make the test on a weet road.... Make the test on a dry road or take a 911 4S for be realist... But the Taycan is a very good electric car, but you don't give the electrical specification for the Taycan (basic Batteries, Power+ Batteries...??) Your test is like a bar corner discussion....Or i m not on the real Fith Gear channel? ^^
Didn't even bother looking at it, 2wd vs 4wd in the wet, sounds like the usual 5th gear push for boring EVs again. Give me a yell when you come up with something not slanted towards EVs. How about a range race between the same cars?
Taycan is not a best effort from Porsche, I think. The Tesla Plaid is SO MUCH lighter while being more practical. While having a bit larger battery was well. When legacy brands step it up more, Porsche will as well. Some Porsche engineers purportedly admit off-camera that the Taycan is far from a best effort. Just nearly benchmarked. Not too good, that would be bad for business, if you think about it.
@@rdmz135 the Plaid is better with speed and tech only, maybe practicality too. Taycan takes fit and finish and build quality as you stated, you forgot that it drive better too and offers better driver engagement
FAIL FIFTH GEAR - Wet conditions !!!! so test like for like ... Taycan is 4wd yet you compare to 2 wheel drive 911!! Chalk and Cheese why bother? I get the feel from whole series so far this is an EV promoting exercise from manufacturers?
Driving is going to be incredibly boring if the EU gets it's way and all future cars are fitted with GPS speed limiters. Mind you since the major cost of vehicles is in the drivetrain maybe we will all be able to afford a Porsche since there will be no need for a powerful expensive drivetrain.
I thought the point of sports cars was the sensation, the acceleration, the feedback? Oh, that's baloney you say -- it's only about going really fast. Well, in that case, they're indeed over, that's for sure.
@@martian9999 You kind of missed the point. Once they get their way and all cars are electronically limited to the speed zone they are in there will be no more reason to build cars that can exceed the national maximum speed limit. That will end any need to build cars that have rapid acceleration and incredible handling characteristics. Who is going to pay for something that can only ever reach 25% of it's potential?
@@janrdoh because expensive cars aren't about speed. They are about status. Similarly, folks in Germany (w/ unlimited expressways) don't understand why Americans buy Porsches. The reason doesn't depend on reason.
According to your line of though the next electric 911 should even be cheaper, since it will be smaller than Taycan sharing its technology and produced in similar volumes? Don’t think so… battery grade Lithium price has meantime increased 21% only in January and microchip and raw materials shortage will be pushing EV production costs up again and again this year.
Surely a better comparison would have been the 4S rather than the 2.
Base price of these two is exactly the same it seems...
But yes, not having 4WD in this weather...
It really should have been the C4, not the C2.
Tbh, it won't make much difference.
@@farishanafiah8461 Possibly not, but we should have been able to see that.
@@farishanafiah8461 actually it would, 4wd on the wet performs better than rwd. Thats common knowledge
It should have been a Panamera CT Vs the Taycan to be honest..
For these shoots they just work with what cars they can get hold of to put around the track, they usually don't have control of the exact model
The fair comparation is Carrera 4S 450HP VS Taycan 4s. The lap time was win in straights and on the exit of the corner where in low grip conditions a 4WD car has better exit. Also the tyres could make a difference. To be fair both cars should have the same tyres: Michelin 4S OR PZERO, but Michelin 4s is better in rain then Pirelli.
Entirely agreed me I am, Spot on
I understand that the base prices of the featured Taycan and 911 are similar, so an argument could be made that for around the same money the Taycan is quicker in those conditions. However, surely a more interesting and relevant comparison would be a Taycan 4S vs a Panamera 4S and 4S E-Hybrid. A three way (unbiased) comparison covering a journey of several hundred miles on motorways and B roads with a track shoot out at the end would make an excellent feature.
More broadly, I understand this series of 5th gear is all about promoting EV's, which is a great thing, but only as long as the integrity is there. Let's be more critical and really put them to the test, not just run with the narrative.
I love the 911. But that Taycan CT is what I am buying next. Practical, efficient, sporty, and fun to drive.
The idea of overlaying cars is amazing!!!!!
It was called ghosting. Used in sport since the 90s. Downhill mountain bike world cup on euro sport for example.
Not a new idea by any means. Car shows and computer games have been doing it for decades.
@@trevorberridge6079 never saw it on a car show before. I’m used to it in video games but I thought nobody would do this on TV at least on french TV, given the time it takes or the guided camera, etc.
Would be awesome for rallye for exemple.
@@colinwatson4172 I’ve never seen ghost cars on TV were I live (France)
@@jonasweber9408 As you'll see in other posts, it has been used for years on television. Fifth Gear alone have used it many times.
2wd VS. 4wd in the wet? Hope you do a dry lap too! Otherwise, I’d say there are either political or economical interests lurking behind this little clip.
I’d say it’s England it’s never dry XD
They're pushing the electric car agenda down our throats as much as possible, there are huge political and economical interests at stake.
@@totoianugheorghelucian488 Wouldn't be surprised, same here in Sweden. Volvo's dream scenario.. "What if there's a way to make EVERYONE scrap their old car & buy a new RIGHT NOW..."
@@totoianugheorghelucian488 it’s really more interesting financially to continue to sell ICE cars, margins are higher and there is maintenance
I like theses comments.
there is literally a ton of videos discrediting EVs for decades.
VS
One video where one EV Porsche beats another Porsche because they had the two cars for a shoot they didn’t have the time to wait until it dries up or ask Porsche another car and redo all the insurance for the shoot… “IT’S A MASSIVE SCALE CONSPIRACY” 😅
You know what? My 996.2 GT3 is probably slower than both of them. But I bet none of them can give you the same happiness when driving it 😎
Carrera S is good enough for most people.
That’s a phenomenal lap time in the wet. As I recall another magazine only got a 992 carrera S around there in the dry a couple of seconds faster than that Taycan. And it’s wet a lot in the uk so a wholly relevant comparison.
Watch our brand new series, in full, via Discovery+ www.discoveryplus.co.uk/show/fifth-gear-recharged-uk
But not in the US apparently :(
That's where you've gone! Was looking for you on channel 5 the other day.
@@stephentsai Maybe try a VPN. 😬
@@raedjibrail doesn’t seem to work, either, unfortunately. Signed up for a trial of Discovery+ in the hopes of accessing the show but apparently US and UK subscriptions don’t have the same content
@@stephentsai Sorry to hear that.
Well done Jason for pronouncing Taycan correctly. Can't remember the last time anyone did that.
Every video I've seen (UK) on this car or even a mention of it, have All said the correct way. I personally thought it was as Jason said, Taycan. Maybe if they were American... 🤔
@@MrMuz99 I refer to UK uploads. Are you sure you hear Thai-khan?
@@resnonverba137 - Yeah I'm sure, man. Is there a specific region you're referencing?
@@MrMuz99Mainly, if not entirely, southern England. I had to think about that.
@@resnonverba137 - Then I can't really say much, I've honestly heard it being said correctly, like Every time. I'm sure I've heard an American butcher it and call it 'Tay-Can'.
It’s interesting to see so many people talking about boring EV’s on this channel. Drive a Taycan and then tell me it’s a boring car to drive. They ‘feel’ like a Porsche, they’re lightening quick and their instant torque response is ridiculous. The grip out of corners is superb. They do lack the theatre of the sound of a petrol engine, but they are so far from being ‘boring’ to drive that it’s not funny.
Note also that a Taycan can do circa 20 laps of a normal track given it’s 800v architecture and excellent cooling and Porsche designed in a lot of slack to ensure owners won’t be disappointed.
Yes we will miss the sound of an engine, but electric doesn’t have to be dull and imo the Taycan is absolute proof of that.
What!
I know it was raining,
But still, my bet would have been on the 911 all day!
very impressive from the taycan with the extra weight on a damp track, was the 911 the Carrera 2 or the Carrera 4? feel like the wet conditions would hamper the 911 slightly if it's only rear wheel drive
2
The Carrera 4 would have been a better comparison, especially with the wet conditions
JP isn't so good with numbers. He can't read the Taycan's time properly and cannot calculate the time difference between the two cars.
Very nice. Both fantastic cars.
Can't believe Fifth Gear got rid of Tiff, only to draft in Brian Johnson...!!! 😆
OMG flashback. . . You look too much like Peter Wherett. No offence but scary.
PS great comparo. The 'Estate' is really a hatchback to look at IMO.
Look forward to a test against the Tesla Model Y performance v Taycan Estate. That would be awesome or even the model X performance . . . How about it guys?
Love your show. Watching on from South Australia.
Seems like quite a few missed the fine details of this test. 1st, comparing the Taycan 4S Cross Turismo against the 911 base model. Since the 911 is quite a bit lighter, and quite a bit more expensive, it makes total sense to test similar performing cars to one another. Just to see if the handling of the Taycan can compete with the 911. 2nd, A lot of you complain about the rain. Well if you see during all the inside shots of the timed laps, it's not raining. So those outside shots with the wipers on and everything, must be B-roll shots made either before or after they actually did the lap. So it's not actually raining while the timed lap took place. And RWD steers better in the wet anyway, but loose out on acceleration, but it doesn't look like Jason has much of an issue putting the power down in the 911. Either way, that's the nature of the game, a 911 4S would be far more expensive than that Taycan 4S. So for the same money you could get a Taycan turbo, which still would beat that 911 4S, even more, probably.
This will of course vary around the world, but where I live, I can get a near fully spec'ed out Taycan turbo for the price of a totally base 911 Carrera 4S. And basically that's what I did. And I've since then driven a 911 (992) Carrera 4S back to back with my Taycan turbo, and that 911 had no chance. It's down 200 horses, so I actually didn't think it could either, but I was surprised when I drove the 911 how low on power it felt. It was, to be fair a hillclimb. But with a lot of tight hairpin turns that I expected the 911 to excel in.
So all in all, I think this was a great test. Not because the Taycan won, but because they managed to show how well the Taycan handles itself on a track. And I can safely say it does. It has no business handling that well being that heavy, so hats of to the brilliant engineers at Porsche making that car so brilliant. Now, that doesn't make the 911 any less brilliant. The new GT3 is an engineering marvel. Beating almost anything around almost any track. And Porsche seem to have something that excels in every driving scenario out there. They may get beaten in some events, but no brand has that many cars in the top, besides Porsche.
i have the taycan 4s ct - it really seems to bend reality when you track it, and i have courtesy of Porsche Silverstone
*at the courtesy of Porsche Silverstone
The Taycan is a good looking car but imho they ruined it with the CT. I'm glad they launched the Sport Turismo recently.
Surely you guys realise that pitting a turbocharged RWD against a 4 WHEEL DRIVE EV on a WET TRACK is not exactly anything close to a fair fight is it??? Cmon guys, you are supposed to be automotive journalists, surely stuff like this should be considered and videos like these made in better conditions, or at the very least, MENTIONED in your videos so the less astute understand the lack of a level playing field
Multiple reviewers have confirmed it: the taycan is just a better car than the 911. Even the 911 can not compete with the fundamental advantages of electric motors. Now what would be interesting to see in the coming years is the electric version of the 911 ! That would probably be even better.
multiple reviewers have also concluded its not. It’s whatever set of criteria you prioritise. For this comparison the the sensible thing would have been s vs s and 4 vs 4. A bit meaningless really
@@jonfrench7133 yes, you are right this is not a fair comparison. However I have read and viewed many review and tests of the Taycan. And it is very clear that the general feedback is that the Taycan is a better car than the 911. The 911 is a very good car, but it is just not possible to compete with the advantages of an electric motor. That's why it will be very interesting to see when porsche combines the advantages of the 911 with the advantages of an EV.
@@mmistermusic great to have a discussion on this. It really does depend on your criteria, i’ve not driven a taycan that offers the the nimbleness and agility of the 992 and this on your toes feel is uber important to me 👍
Not 1½ seconds faster Jason. 2.41 seconds faster. Petrol 911 spanked by all electric Taycan, which is currently the best selling Porsche ... IN THE WORLD!
The Porsche won the test
But which one was most enjoyable?
⬆️⬆️ this is the real question . In couple with: which one is an icon?
@@MrPagnu yes, everyone seems obsessed by speed. I know it's easy to measure and then compare, but in reality it's pointless!
Did not see that coming at all
EV cars fast and effective but boring, IMHO. I think that the perspective next 911 will be entirely electric will be extremely dangerous for Porsche . Hopefully they’ll chose the hybrid route before doing such a bold move to full electric for an car that, even if slower than many other even cheaper sport cars, still benefits the racing heritage that the iconic flat 6 brings with it
spoken like someone who has never driven an electric car
@@1bardh1 well EV's are way more boring to drive compared to ICE cars. As you know they're 'a one trick pony'
I'm calling bs, put an awd 911 which costs the same as the taycan up against it which I recon would be a Turbo, different result
Must have been shifting if Plato had to concentrate……
Wish wasn’t raining 🌧
Nice try but Tiff is so much more entertaining to watch
I was expecting a bit more meaningful review rather laptime comparison on a wet track.
It's not a fair test for the 911. The Taycan is like a 4x4 with 4 electrical motors, one per wheels. And you make the test on a weet road.... Make the test on a dry road or take a 911 4S for be realist... But the Taycan is a very good electric car, but you don't give the electrical specification for the Taycan (basic Batteries, Power+ Batteries...??) Your test is like a bar corner discussion....Or i m not on the real Fith Gear channel? ^^
Phenomenal!!
sick
Plato the legend ♥
This no where near a fair comparison. I wonder how much money they were paid to set this wet road race up in the taycans favor 🤣
What a stupid comparison. Why not a Carrera 4S?
Bit of an advertorial for Porsche. Or an ambassador job application with Porsche for Plato perhaps?
Didn't even bother looking at it, 2wd vs 4wd in the wet, sounds like the usual 5th gear push for boring EVs again. Give me a yell when you come up with something not slanted towards EVs. How about a range race between the same cars?
Taycan is not a best effort from Porsche, I think.
The Tesla Plaid is SO MUCH lighter while being more practical. While having a bit larger battery was well.
When legacy brands step it up more, Porsche will as well. Some Porsche engineers purportedly admit off-camera that the Taycan is far from a best effort. Just nearly benchmarked. Not too good, that would be bad for business, if you think about it.
Aside from fit and finish and the weak standard brakes, I would say the Plaid is superior in every metric
@@rdmz135 the Plaid is better with speed and tech only, maybe practicality too. Taycan takes fit and finish and build quality as you stated, you forgot that it drive better too and offers better driver engagement
Jason can’t find fault with theTacan....I beg to differ, it’s been whacked with the ugly stick🤔
المااانيااا ❤️🇩🇪❤️🔥
not the best 2 cars to compare in the wet
Wait....is 5th gearrr back!!? For realzzzzzzz!????
They shouldn't have returned, they're full of s**t and biased af.
FAIL FIFTH GEAR - Wet conditions !!!! so test like for like ... Taycan is 4wd yet you compare to 2 wheel drive 911!! Chalk and Cheese why bother?
I get the feel from whole series so far this is an EV promoting exercise from manufacturers?
Fifth gear has fallen terrebly behind…
Some people have all the luck
Driving is going to be incredibly boring if the EU gets it's way and all future cars are fitted with GPS speed limiters. Mind you since the major cost of vehicles is in the drivetrain maybe we will all be able to afford a Porsche since there will be no need for a powerful expensive drivetrain.
I thought the point of sports cars was the sensation, the acceleration, the feedback? Oh, that's baloney you say -- it's only about going really fast. Well, in that case, they're indeed over, that's for sure.
@@martian9999 You kind of missed the point. Once they get their way and all cars are electronically limited to the speed zone they are in there will be no more reason to build cars that can exceed the national maximum speed limit. That will end any need to build cars that have rapid acceleration and incredible handling characteristics. Who is going to pay for something that can only ever reach 25% of it's potential?
@@janrdoh because expensive cars aren't about speed. They are about status.
Similarly, folks in Germany (w/ unlimited expressways) don't understand why Americans buy Porsches. The reason doesn't depend on reason.
😂
Wait till the 911 EV comes out!
Porsche said that it will never happen.
@@farishanafiah8461 thank God.
Wow!🙃
wonder why this channel thumbnails sucks
No one wants to see shocked faces on the thumbnail. 🤦🤦
Kinda undeniable where the future lies. Faster, simpler, more reliable, cheaper to run, very soon cheaper to buy too.
According to your line of though the next electric 911 should even be cheaper, since it will be smaller than Taycan sharing its technology and produced in similar volumes? Don’t think so… battery grade Lithium price has meantime increased 21% only in January and microchip and raw materials shortage will be pushing EV production costs up again and again this year.
I'm not so sure about that tbh.