As a professional piano player, your discussion about digital pianos vs real pianos and artificial engine sound was interesting. I am old enough to have been around when digital instruments were just starting. The tech is so good nowadays, that a real piano and a digital are virtually indistinguishable. But only in recordings. In person, there is still no comparison; that is because even a high end pro digital piano needs really good speakers to hear, it can't match the real thing. However, I have a 6 foot grand that I have to tune 3 times per year and I often find myself playing the digital keyboard. For live and recording, a good quality digital synth/keyboard is a matter of convenience now (since sound is not an issue). (That said, you will NEVER see a large symphony using a digital synth in place of a 9 foot Steinway); Cars? I absolutely hate the way fake/piped in engine noise sounds. But who knows, maybe it will get better as years go on, or we will just get used to the silence. For digital instruments, we use them because it is more practical; but they MUST make good sound. In the end though, give me a Porshce NA, flat 6 revving to 9k! Now that is music!
I've wondered why they don't just make a Porsche EV motor turn an air pump, to compress and release air, to make the same flat-6 firing order, slight vibration, amd sound by moving air.
The problem lies in the poor analog the video is trying to give here, while a piano's note can be captured and simulated down to virtually the same as the original. It is much harder to replicate an six or eight-cylinder piston trusting from 1000rpm to 8000rpms as the data is substantially larger and astronomical to calculate and simulate; it is just so drastically different.
The problem that I had with the Piano argument is that piano's purpose, electric or not, is to create sound. A car's primary purpose is to move, the sound is only a byproduct of the original mode of power, that being the combustion engine,. Electric motors do make a noise, a noise that can at times, be grating on the ears. The silence of EVs has more to do with the comfort of the drivers/ passengers than it has to do with any sort of regulations. I feel that potentially, EVs will have a very specifically designed series of resonance chambers near the motors in order to manipulate the sound in a way that is pleasing to those both inside and out of the vehicle.
@@chsi5420 This is a problem that needs addressing. A nice combustion engine sounds great, an EV motor produces a frequency range that is neither good nor silent, instead it is irritating. This is why EVs have much more dampening than gas cars. Engineers need to tune EVs to produce more harmonious sound.
in recordings a real piano and a midi piano are indistinguishable because the midi piano uses real piano recordings as well, if not even more precise than an average studio can record a real piano. I would imagine that electric cars making noises are more akin to artists lip syncing on stage. What the audience hears is not what's being performed, but the "artist" goes thru the motions and pretends he/she is performing. Casuals will get entertained and are happy, they couldn't care less. People who actually care would question why did they pay for tickets to watch someone pretend they are singing.
I am right now choosing between these 2 cars. The Taycan is so much more practical, much cheaper probably also to maintain and much more available. The 911 is the icon since I was a kid. I’m sure my wife and dog will love the Taycan a lot more.
Nice video, very well conceptualised and executed, and some excellent points. It will be fascinating to see what happens once battery density improves, and EVs get to comparable weight (say in about 10 years). But the same instant torque, low centre of gravity.
800kg or 1700lbs+. the Taycan may do a good job of "hiding" the weight (and I agree that it does) but no one should interpret that to mean "invisible" (because it isn't). just had a highly optioned RWD Taycan loaner for 2 days and the very first thing that jumped out at me driving it was the sensation of EXTREME MASS. even without a front motor once you add the driver - me - back in to the equation the total weight going down the road is still over 2336kg or 5150lbs to be exact (I know because I scaled the car which most don't do). edit: the Turismo models are that much heavier still over the Sedan/Saloon but either trim I would take over a Model S Plaid without hesitation.
Try a different Taycan for comparison. The base model likely had crap for tires. Indeed that would be a frightening experience, and I know it doesn't represent its handling capabilities anywhere close to the GTS
Amazing video guys! I personally love the Taycan GTS, and love that it represents something else than a shouting sub 2 second 0-60 time. Its really desirable, and i think looks wise, the panamera sport turismo looks a bit bulky sitting next to it. Cant wait to hear your take on the upcoming cayman and boxter ev's. If someone is going to make something involving, its Porsche.
Really glad this has generated so many thoughtful comments. Thank you - I really mean it. The piano analogy was one that only occurred to me whilst I was driving the Taycan and although I know it is imperfect as a comparison, I'm pleased I included it and that it has resulted in some great insight and debate. The next film will be in a few weeks and should certainly have plenty of noise (courtesy of a naturally aspirated V12...!).
@Henry Catchpole Thank you for all your wonderful reviews. Even if I’ll never drive an RS3, Taycan GTS or any of the incredible cars you review, it’s nice to be able to escape from the chaos of the world and be transported into the driver seat through your amazing insights and narration!
Now on my 5th month with my first electrified vehicle, and I'm with you. There's room for excitement about what comes next. Yes, it will be different, but I've stopped seeing that as bad. Thanks for the lovely review. And for the record, that 911 sound put on to the Taycan did not make my brain happy. Felt like I was being actively lied to.
I love you Henry, you're the ONLY journalist who has said "A fun EV is not about straight line performance, but about feel 🧐" YES, You're just THE BEST! ❤️🙌🏻 I feel like the transition from ICE to EVs will be like the transition from books to digital reading, sure digital is more convinient and what most of the people do, but if you want a book you can still buy it since digital reading doesn't replace everything 🧐 So hopefully you can still get an ICE car with Synthetic Fuels in the future if you really want to :)
I’ve been a passenger in 3 different Teslas and the instant torque is unpleasant. And I love aggressive driving. I had a feeling that EVs made by car companies instead of tech companies would get this right.
@@sportbikejesus Oooh, I see! I haven't been a passenger in one, But I have seen a lot journalists saying either they need a break or like "Please stop accelerating, I'm about to puke 🤢" And yes! I totally believe you! We need linear power curves :),
sure but will be with no use if these cars with synthetic fuels would be 100k+ sports cars for the rich. Not all enthusiasts can come up with the money for a brand new 911.
Upsides of not realising Henry has moved on from Carfection: - a lot of Henry videos to catch up on on Hagerty - not accidentally clicking on a video with the world's worst Clarkson impersonator
@@R8andGT3Fan he was funny if you're like a college sophomore fratboy... or a boomer. I don't know if its about current era, but I felt like I just grew out of shallow content.
As an avid piano player, I found the comparison brilliant. For most people, a Nord with all the synthetic range is actually more usable, accessible, and helpful than a grand. But then if you’ve ever played a perfectly tuned Yamaha, the travel of the keys, resonance of the physical object is pure theatre and goosebumps. Not for everyone, but for the enthusiasts, it’s an absolute delight.
It's a similar analogy to wireless earbuds and wired headphones. For all the advancement of wireless Bluetooth audio, there's no getting away from the fact that wired headphone still gives the best sound quality. That's before you even introduce to DAC audio, especially on LG flagship smartphones and ASUS gaming smartphones.
As a musician (and also a carmine red Taycan owner) I loved this video. 🙂 I agree that, for the listener, a synthetic piano doesn't make any difference anymore but for the person playing the piano, it is a totally different experience. There's the vibration of the instrument under your fingers and all the mechanical clicks and clacks that make it a very "connected" experience. It is very inconvenient to record, though. You need to tune it every few sessions, and being completely mechanical, something will eventually need to be fixed. I suppose the same things can be said from an ICE car. I must point out that when you play a piano your main object is to make music with the sounds. In a car, the sounds are a side effect of the main activity which is driving. I believe it's mostly learned association from years of worshipping race cars. After driving exclusively electric cars for the past decade (Tesla Model S 8 years, Taycan 1 year) I come out with two conclusions relevant to this conversation: (1) The sound of ICE cars pushing is not fun for me any more. The same as the smell of the gas burning, the sound only reminds me of how inefficient ICE engines are in terms of all the fuel that they burn to move the same amount or less. (2) No one has ever walked out of my Taycan or Tesla after a joy ride without a HUGE excited smile in their face. Let's do it again! Again! is all you will hear. After all, it feels like flying, effortless. Do you need sounds to make skydiving exciting?
When it comes to fake sound, I think it's fine so long as it's an "electric" noise A fake v8 is stupid in every sense, but I would not at all mind an electric whine, one similar to the mach e 1400 and vw idr's but less intrusive
As a current Taycan owner, I can honestly say it's a true gem of a car. And in a lot of situations it's the car you want to drive, over the 911. Not as a people carrier, but as the more fun sports car. The abundance of power readily available at all times for instance, makes it the far more enjoyable car out of the bends. Especially going uphill. If you have the car with torque vectoring, it's even better. I've chased GT3s uphill through hairpin turns, gaining on the GT3s. So it handles extremely well for such a heavy car. It's also surprisingly close to the 911 in how it feels like in your hands. If not for the engine sounds of the 911, there's not a huge difference. And with the PDCC system (dynamic chassis control), it's so flat through the bends it's mind boggling. It is safe to say that the future is totally safe. And we will get fun and engaging cars, also in the future.
EVs are actually helping in democratizing horsepower and torque, as cheaper cars can have more horsepower than industry ICE staple or past muscle and have also more torque than comparable horsepower ICE cars.
Nice to see Henry on this channel, thanks all round! I've had a Taycan for 2 years now, you really have to drive one to appreciate how good it is. I've had 2 911's, including a GT3, so I have some great comparisons!
Excellent video Henry. Brilliant idea to compare these two without preconceptions. Love the looks of the Taycan GTS, can’t wait to try it at some point. 👍 The sound of an EV is an interesting debate, and indeed it’s interesting how we accept some synthetic sounds and not others. Nobody complains about the shutter sound on a camera phone, and perhaps even some of the younger generation aren’t even aware of what it’s emulating.
I remember people hating on it back in the day, and commonly in my experience everyone has the sound off. (Unless they’re from/using a phone from Japan) I think a Samsung or one company made a really weird sounding noise that it was even mentioned in reviews. It’s also instantly turned off on every point and shoot camera I’ve had.
I wonder why no one ever does this kind of comparison between the Taycan and the Panamera. I feel like that's really what the Taycan is directly replacing, so it would be more of an apples to apples comparison.
Probably because Panamera was not a huge success, and Porsche Marketing department wont gain anything out of that comparison. They want to sell the idea of their EVs being natural successor to their sports car pedigree! But yes, your point is bang on that would be the right comparison. This is simply NOT, and in fact is WRONG. Taycan does not, by any stretch of imagination drive even closer to a 911.
I really like the keyboard analogy that Henry used but I would imagine the reason why we as humans don’t mind keyboards is that the sound is the primary function of that device, much like the piano it synthesises. With the ICE car, the sound is always a by product of the functioning of it where transportation or movement is the primary function. This byproduct of sound however, as we know, can be a very pleasing addition to the driving experience which adds involvement, character and excitement. With an EV therefore, the sound is contrived for no other reason than simply to be there, it’s entirely disconnected from either the primary function of that type of car or from being present as a byproduct and so I think deep down there’s always a part of the driver that thinks what’s the point of the fakery. I’m neither here nor there on it to be honest, but the discussion about interests me to no end.
Came here to say this. The entire goal of the keyboard is to emulate a piano and make sound, and the piano's function is similarly purely to create that sound, not a byproduct of some other main function like you said. On that grounds, the more fitting analogy with a piano and keyboard that's closest to an ICE car and an EV one would be a keyboard manufacturer adding weight to a keyboard to more closely resemble the heft of a traditional piano. Nobody would really want that by comparison, but in a similar sense, the weight of a traditional stringed piano is simply a byproduct of it's design that allows it to perform its primary function of making sound, just like the sound of an ICE car is the byproduct of its primary function of providing propulsion. A piano exists solely to make sound, as does a keyboard, so emulating anything other than this function in a keyboard would similarly be seen as useless and gimmicky. A car does not exist solely to make sound, so pointlessly emulating sound when the primary function is otherwise entirely accomplished without it is rightfully criticized for the same reasons. It's useless and gimmicky.
I too was looking for this comment. Well said Nick Catelli. A fake engine sound to me would be like putting emblems/stickers of high end or performance cars on a GEO Metro! As a matter of fact, imagine getting into a small non performing car, you hit the accelerator and it sounds like a Porsche or even a Harley Davidson bike!!! If you listen closely though, EV motors do make a sound especially when accelerating hard... maybe making sure it "sounds" good would be the way to go?
One point of the fake engine sound it is it's another useful data point while driving. When driving, even if you don't think about it, the sound of the engine helps you quantify speed. In a silent, will insulated car, absent looking at the speedometer, it is tough to know if you're coming into that corner 20 miles an hour too hot. Knowing what gear you're in and the sound of the engine gives you an idea how fast you're going, even if not consciously. . In a silent car, that data point is lost. Artificial noise that changes pitch with speed is an auditory data point that helps you drive. If it doesn't drive you nuts.
Doesn't matter what channel your on always epic content.. amazing piece to camera as also. Thanks for putting the effort in.. Epic as always thanks forn sharing.. 😎
Finally!! An EV review that is not about 0-60. If the future of EV is all about acceleration and straight line speed, the future of driving is bleak. Thanks to Porsche for keeping hope alive even if slim.
I would add that all this talk about sound comes more from a spectator point of view. If you're watching a video on RUclips, of course that the sound makes it more exciting. Otherwise it would feel kinda boring. This is why they add music soundtracks to movies, to evoque emotions that would otherwise come out flat. EXCEPT to the people experiencing the actual emotions. In this case, the person driving it would feel all the effortless acceleration, G-force, etc.
I think we should have a little fun with EVs I would like to see a menu where you can pick the sound you want from V12 F1 to farm tractor and anything in between 😂 and yes the option for completely silent as well
I have a Taycan Turbo & I really wish they'd gone that direction. If you're gonna give me fake noise, make it fake GT3 engine noise instead of the weird spaceship sound.
I drive a Taycan 4s. The first week or two, I felt like I was missing the sound of a roaring engine. But after that periof of adjustment, I switched completely. Now, I absolutely love the experience of speed combined with relative silence. It sort of adds to the cool factor. I feel we have connected speed to sound in our minds. But we can easily undo the brainwashing. When all cars in the future would be EVs, I’m pretty sure no one will end up missing the engine roars. It will be like the sound of a steam train. Something from the past.
I'm on the hill of wanting a manual gearbox until I die, so I may not be the best opinion. But hats off the Porsche to making a good driving EV. And I'll admit I never have driven a Taycan or even could afford one to get that out of the way. But to me driving is not only the feel of the wheel, but also the engagement. Every time I jump in an automatic ICE car I think "wow this is boring to drive" no matter what it is. Your own video on why manuals matter goes over every reason of that. Now i'm sure for the population that drive automatic ICE cars, this probably isn't any different and a great alternative. For me giving up driving involvement is one reason I never want one, but I'm sure the day will come that it's my only option and I am afraid then I have to give up one of my hobbies.
A good EV can be tremendously engaging. In a different way. I'm a die-hard car guy. I've owned and daily driven manuals, and currently own a 911. I've also owned two EV's in my life and I am contemplating a Taycan. There's no shifting, there's no sound from an EV. There's no rumble of the engine. Because of, well, life, I've gone from daily driving my EV to my 911. It's proven to be interesting. But...there are things I miss about the driving engagement of my EV. Yes, driving engagement. You know how N/A guys are always touting "throttle response" as why they prefer them to forced induction. Well, imagine throttle response 100X sharper. Imagine power being available...NOW. Imagine being to literally think about a gap in traffic and be there, instantly. That's what good EV brings to the party. And it's an amazing feeling, when you can meter out the power with millimetric precision. And with no gearshifts (or one in the case of the Taycan), you get into a different kind of flow. The flow of driving an ICE powertrain is as much about managing the powertrain's curves as it is the handling. When you're no longer managing the powertrain, but truly commanding it, the intensity that you can bring to the handling ramps up. It's really, REALLY enjoyable to get into the flow of a good set of turns when you can manage the throttle with such precision. You really can focus on the weight transfer fore and aft, and feel it affect grip. So it's not only the "feel of the wheel" Henry is likely referring to, but the whole package. I would encourage you to try a properly developed EV for a decent amount of time and see what you think.
Remember 10 years ago when all you journalists praised the Panamera for being the 4-door 911? That once you get behind the wheel you forget about the back seats and you're just like in a 911? Well, my dad bought himself one and when I drove it, it was a boat. A luxury-performance limousine. Very fast car, but nothing sports about it. Just the artificial "sports feel" of hard suspension and agressive locking rear diff when put in Sport Plus mode. But still nothing 911 about it. I don't trust you guys anymore.
Here’s my issue with performance EV’s: I do not want to drive an hour and a half to the mountains, rip up the mountain roads and then be stranded. Right now, I can fill up with gas, have the time of my life, then fill up at the gas station at the base of the mountains and drive home. Until I can get this experience in an EV, I have no interest in them.
It DOES NOT drive like a Porsche, let alone like a 911! Having driven both, I fail to understand how any sports car enthusiast can even call Taycan a drivers car, let alone comparing it with a 911 GTS. Unless ofcourse there is Porsche marketing dept at play here. It feels heavy (its not just about acceleration, but handling), steering is too light and lacks feedback for a proper drivers car, and you are sat a bit too high.. its like an anti-sports car recipe. So yes, if 'push back in the seat acceleration if your thing - you'll love it.. but if you love driving proper sports cars, it's likely not your thing.
I have driven a lot of cars on track including the 911, boxer s, cayman s and BMW M3. I have also driven more then 30 EVs. The Taycan is by a margin the best EV I have ever driven, it is also one of the best cars I have driven. Is it as exciting as a naturally aspirated V8 with a double clutch slamming in gear after gear, or as exciting as a turbo flat 6 with a manual gearbox? No! but it's a really great car, and no other EV drives as good and gives you the enjoyment. It feels heavy when loaded up in the corners but less so than any other EV. The sound, gives you a sense of speed wich you don't get without the sound on especially for passengers the sound prevents nausea 😉
I just bought a Taycan Turbo S Sedan. The car is amazing, super practical comparing to the 911. I miss the 911 in certain circumstances, but in general for a father of 2 young kids, the Taycan is just perfect !!
Love your review...I'm very fortunate to own a Taycan GTS, beautiful car, great performance for the whole family, but it just lacks soul...sound is so important for a performance car. I get so excited hearing my wife's Macan Turbo snack crackle and pop...even the kids love the sound.
The purpose of EVs is the real question. We cannot deny their immediate torque...that's FUN. The problems, however, go deep. If we desire all passenger cars to be EV by 2035 we nee a lot more electrical generation. Some say we should have been building 1Gw nuclear power plants once a week since last year to meet that basic need. That hasn't and will not happen.
If EVs do continue to use fake engine noise, I think I'd prefer to hear the sounds of the gearbox, diffs, and electric motors amplified and piped in rather than the sound of a four cylinder or v8 that isn't there.
Took delivery of a 4S Cross Turismo 9 weeks ago, with all performance options including the not tested here in this video PSC brakes. Sound can be selected or deselected but comes on as default in Sport Plus, and provides help in gauging speed. Hunkered down in Sport Plus, the Taycan is composed, with little to no body roll and as you mention, Henry, arguably better suspended than the 992 over bumpy roads. WIth torque vectoring, dynamic chassis control and PASM along with the 4WS, corners are dispatched with delight and nary a hint of concern over the additional heft. While not shown in this vid, it's outrageous to launch- like an arrow from a bow, not a peep or slightest hint of wheel spin.
OK, if manufacturers want to waste money on artificial sound, there are going to be drivers who like it. But - and this applies to both EVs and ICE vehicles - it should have an OFF switch.
I am an old school enthusiast, with a 1985.5 944 and a 2011 911 GTS in the garage, both of which I will never sell. My wife just took delivery of a 2023 Taycan 4S Cross Tursimo 30 days ago (and over 2,300 miles already!) and as much as it shocks me to say this, the Taycan not only drives like a 992 911, it is actually the most fun car I have ever driven. And I'm no Henry, but I have driven my fair share of exotic and supercar machinery. Porsche absolutely nailed it with this one, and the upcoming electric Cayman and Boxster should be stupendous! Great piece as always, Henry!
Regarding noise in EVs. Why not give the driver the option? People aren't a monolith, some may want silence while others want Star Wars and others want fake engine noise. Maybe I want silence while half asleep on the way to work, but a fake V12 on the way home. Let them choose their experience. I've had enough of so called enthusiasts talking in absolutes, the second I hear someone doing that I know they aren't someone I care to converse with. Also, you can have cool natural sounds from EVs. I've driven a Ford eTransit a few times and since it has zero sound insulation in the cargo area, and that's open to the cabin, I could hear everything. It made the same breadth of noises as my modified hot hatch. It made sounds based on speed, accelerator pedal position, and acceleration or deceleration. It sounds more fun than the average commuter car does. If EVs were designed to let you hear some of these noises it would go a long way to making them more fun.
Everything about EVs has accentuated the electronic, so the sound should too. Finding something joyful and motivating , like our well-crafted dinosaur burners can be, will be a tricky puzzle to solve, but it shouldn’t be the same.
I don't any issues with EV's. As for pure fun I like my old 964. No it's not the fastest and doesn't have all the tech. As long as they manufacturer gas I'm going to keep driving it. Thanks for the content.
I'm lucky enough to have driven a Taycan on launch day. And then spent a few days with a Taycan Turbo a bit after that. And funny enough I also had a 911 carrera 4S (992) at the time with me. So I got to compare the both of them side by side. Taycan Turbo and 911 Carrera 4S (ok not the best comparison, but it's what I could manage). I made a video for youtube (for another channel which I wont bother sharing... its in Portuguese) where I actually said the exact same thing. The Taycan is the best EV (for me) and it really feels like a 911 in some aspects, which is amazing considering its a 4door EV vs a 2door sports car. It's a great example what can be done if a EV is done right and with the right mindset. I'm a car photographer, so I am lucky enough to have driven most EV's from big brands since I work with Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, etc and although a lot of people seem against EVs (in Portugal they say "carro a pilhas" [battery powered car - like a blender] in a depreciative way), I do find some EV's to be amazing cars when done right. And I own 2 myself. Great video guys! Love it.
Henry, great that you focus on how it drives and the feel. As you say the straight line speed is largely irrelevant. I'm not a fan of fake engine noise, unless a new car can persuade me otherwise.
I want an electric one to go to work and a V8 to enjoy life on weekends and vacations. the proposal is simple: a tie tied around the neck is elegant. but nothing beats a cold beer and a V8 under the hood.
Very thought provoking review. The Taycan is the one EV that I lust after, especially in Sport Turismo guise. I have never been a fan of the front end but the rest of the car more than compensates for that. Personally I love the funky synthesised sounds too. Range and charging will only get better so I take huge comfort in what Porsche has achieved here.
Porsche did an amazingly good job for this first ever EV. I prefer the sedan layout and look, personally - it's more like a 911, in fact sometimes people ask if it's a 911! Also I like a real trunk in the back for security, so I have practical reasons for it.
@@shibilm.n4073 Funny thing is when I'm driving people stare at it from the front, they also take pictures... The school kids think it's a Lamborghini..LOL
It is great that Porsche has their own superlative examples to benchmark against. I also appreciate that they have put effort into the entire driving experience rather than focusing nearly exclusively on straight-line performance, like so many others. Even so, I am still hoping that somebody (anybody really) will aim to create a replacement for the combination of handling, feel, utility, and value of my Golf Mk. 7 Sportswagen GT (R-Line). An EV that is less tall, less heavy, maybe even with less acceleration, but with handling that is reminiscent of a GTI or other hot hatch. I can learn to be happy without the human/maching interface of the manual transmission, but I would like to have the option of buying an EV that has at least taken my motoring desires into account.
Would be great nterested in knowing how many miles were covered in the Taycan on a single charge vs mpg on the 911. This is quite a pertinent point when it comes to living with an EV. Temperature also drastically affects battery range.. Personally, I think there is further advancement needed in battery tech before I could realistically consider buying an EV of any sort.
This issue is mostly a non-issue unless you live in the middle of nowhere. Longer road trips do involve some planning, that said it's never hindered me in 21K miles of GTS ownership 🏁
The problem with the Tycan is it’s small inside and big outside. With the seat all the way back, I am still cramped and I am looking at the pillar when I look to the left, and there is absolutely no room behind the drivers seat. How could it be so small, a Panamerica is huge inside compared to it.
Wouldn't a better comparison have been the Panamera GTS against the Taycan? These two cars serve such drastically different purposes that this is less of ICE vs EV as it is Sports Car vs Daily Driver.
My one biggest gripe with EVs is indeed their sound, as a result I have personally nothing against-and rather everything for-fake sounds. Being able to hear in the cabin (not outside, that's pointless) a credible V8 or V6 or inline 6 at the touch of a button would be a big selling point for me.
If I were to build my own EV, it would have a modestly powerful motor mated to a manual gearbox with straight cut gears, then solid mount that assembly to the chassis so all that noise goes to the cabin. I know EVs can be fun, we just need to shift how we think about them.
An ICE engine's sound serves a very practical purpose: it is a real-time audible indication of engine loading (e.g. the relationship between what the motor and tires can deliver relative to what the driver has requested via the accelerator pedal). It is not clear to me that the synthetic EV sounds even provide this function (even though it should be straightforward for the drive inverter to accurately measure this). I get the impression that the lion's share of manufacturer effort is put into making EVs sound like movie spaceships.
I love the look of a taycan especially in this spec. Maybe not in red but if someone was to give me one for free I wouldn't complain about it being red. Awesome video as always.
So actually our brain connects sensations to emotions. And this is learned from birth. The reason why we like the sound of engines is because we associate it with the performance of a car or the joy driving it. Eventually the same thing will happen with (authentic) EV motor noise. It will just take a generation. Or two.
In my opinion.. The engineers should just go full bore with properly engineered sound, for three reasons.. 1. It's just more engaging (more about this in a sec) 2. The quickest feedback path in our brain is through our ears. Studies show we can respond to auditory cues faster than visual cues. I want the EV sounds to not just be soothing whooshing and whirring, but to tell me what the car is actually doing. Like one tone that varies proportional to speed, and another sub tone that varies (maybe in volume) by torque. Maybe a subwoofer note to tell me when the tires are scrabbling for traction, and so forth.. 3. Why not? If it can be turned on/off/customized, then the people who want it, can use, and those that don't can turn it off. Back to engagement. I own a 2004 Golf R32 which has an great stock exhaust note (search for videos of it). We nicknamed the sound the "Angry Wookie", and there is nothing more enjoyable to cruise around at 6/10ths on a twisty road with the windows down. But I was losing power to my high altitude location, so I put a turbo on it, and (as we see with modern turbo cars) it mostly just shut off the glorious exhaust note any time I put my foot in it. Went from Angry Wookie to nebulous asthmatic whooshing sound. I *really* hated it. Without the enjoyment of sound, I had to drive the car much harder to exploit the benefits of the added power. It got so bad I was actually considering removing the turbo. Eventually I found a mostly open cat back exhaust that could bring the sound *almost* back to stock levels (still a little quieter) with a return of the old brassy note. Every time I see a review of some fast EV, I'm reminded of how miserable I was when I lost the exhaust note of my own car. They just leave me cold. I'm not the least bit interested in owning an EV until they solve (or let others hack) the sound engineering. Heck they could simulate gear shifts and other stuff too.
Wait.. we're excluding the transmission? Why? Even a PDK is more engaging in "manual mode" than.. well.. nothing. Obviously EVs don't NEED a gearbox (in most cases), but that's like saying ICE vehicles don't NEED a massive slab of batteries, so we're just going to ignore that extra 1,000 kgs. Removing one of the core aspects of the ICE driving experience seems strange. I mean.. why not just say, "well they both have 4 wheels and a steering wheel.. so let's just agree that they're identical"
I just don't like ICE engine noises. Sorry, but I don't, especially the waste gates that just scream wasted fossil fuel to me. I love driving my Mach-E GT, appreciating the *feel*, and focusing on the experience without being interrupted by ICE sounds. I know, I'm in the minority, but I am thrilled with near-silent EV driving.
The sound in a car is part of the pleasure AND it (used to) help driving better. Controling the car, braking and avoiding speed cameras just with the sound. So, yes, if I ever buy an EV, I want it with sound ! And external sound for the people around to know you r there. And for the stupid cyclist dressed as Eddy Merckx thinking they own all the road, while there is a (very expensive) cycle path just less than a meter away . But ok, I live in Belgium, where some dumbasses really think their stupid 'sport' is better if it creates problems for other people. And that the sport is much better for you if you wear nuts-molding leggings and a shirt full of sponsors. They don't even realize they, themselves, pay the sponsors. It says a lot. I think i digress. Oops
I designed and ran racing cars for almost all my career. I bought a Taycan CT4S after test drive. I appreciate the quietness and engine response and characteristic, free of the vagaries of narrow working range due to gas flow of all IC engines it needs neither gearbox nor clutch which for me is a huge plus. The lack of lag and wide power band make it even better than my old TVR Griffith for overtaking. I hated the faux noise and switched it off after seconds so didn’t spec it on my car (I still have a sports car with 3 pedals and 6-speed box if I need a noise). The width and weight I dislike but the car really feels smaller than it is - unlike the Audi E-Tron GT strangely. As a road car probably the best I’ve ever driven, too heavy for track though.
Henry, you could sell anything including this Taycan. I hope I never have to take my Porsche and Audis off the road. Long live petrol cars!!!!!!!!!!!! Cheers Henry.😀
Great piece Mr C. I drive a 991 C4S (partly your fault) and I borrowed a Taycan 4S when it needed a service. I agree with the review, and was surprised how good the Taycan’s steering, brakes and handling were! However it did feel very wide inside, more GT than sports. Above everything though, when driving the 911 I feel joy, the Taycan was, well, nice, just nice. And that’s not enough. Maybe the electric Boxter will be the real deal in a few years time. PS The noise really matters!
I have an issue with the sound of an EV. Firstly; I think that it absolutely must have a sound. I've seen enough EV's creep up on people and them just not knowing that they're there. Second: the sound of an ICE is just pants in an EV! That just doesn't belong imho. So that leaves a unique, distinctive sound that is also complimentary to the driving experience. Now; I don't care if it sounds like a Cylon Basestar, KITT, a TIE fighter - pick what you want but it must have something. Perhaps AI can come up with something - that would probably be apt. Right now it feels like EVs are everywhere and they feel largely faceless to me...
Whenever I share my head at fake sounds, I have to remind myself how there is claim that Steve McQueen overdubbed the car chase in Bullit for the Mustang to sound visceral with a Ford GT40 or how the lovely "C'était un rendez-vous" is told to have overdubbed with the Lelouch's (the director) Ferrari 275GTB. Fake sounds can be good eh ?
A good MIDI graded weight hammer action keyboard utilises ‘samples’ (recording of a real piano note) through 127 samples from quiet to loud, slow to fast hammer etc. Adopting that principle, why can’t an ICE engine be sampled in the same way & replayed to be played back through the throttle inputs across the pedals use? Yes it will be fake and the quality of the speakers & sub woofers will influence the effect, but it should be close to convincing. I have lots of guitars & amps, but these days good music software & DAW means that I generally only play through the laptop & my analog valve kit & effects sits idle. I still want a real engine though & EV’s emphatically are NOT anymore eco when considered across their lifecycle from production on, so what’s the point? It’s certainly not going to save the planet & 3 tonne EV’s produce huge tyre particulate pollution. Synthetic & Efuels are the way forward.
The throttle thing (about 7 minutes in). That’s possible in an ICE car, it’s just a fashion for stupid non-linear throttles that the 911, annoyingly, complies with. Racing cars and full on drivers cars, like my old 2-Eleven, have linear throttles. Some remaps allow this, but it’s a shame Porsche pander to fashion.
Judging by the build sheets of Taycans for sale (at least in the USA), disturbingly few have the Performance Package (or constituent options like PTV+, 4WS, etc.). Does this mean most Porsche buyers are preoccupied with decorating their vehicle with rim and color choices rather than driving a great-handling vehicle?
1. comparing these cars is like comparing a gaming chair to a lounge chair. They both do the same thing but each does its intended purpose better than the other. Why do manufacturers see the need to merge them all and blur the lines? Why not make the large EV super luxurious like Rolls or Bentley and push for more Hydrogen powered sports cars 2. Why dont manufacturers give customers CHOICE in the sound their cars pump into the cabin (or even outside). I would love to have my EV sound like a angry LAZY v8 inside whilst having the JETSONS hovercraft noise on the outside
You can't say it holds a candle to the 911 when it feels worse than the 911. People when comparing cars will bring Automatic transmission vs Manual: "Oh this car only comes in Automatic, so it doesn't feel as good". Well, you can't exclude sound, transmission, the pedal, from a non EV car to plain the field. Those are things that make that car be that car. The Taycan IS the Taycan because it is electric, otherwise we'd be talking about some other car. This isn't the case. You can't just "acknowledge" something and just forget about it when doing the actual comparison.
Why on earth hasn't Porsche offered a selection of it's greatest exhaust notes to listen to? Start with the 956 and 911 (all variants thereof), 928, Carerra GT. Why not let us pretend we're Steve McQueen in the 917? What is this synthetic homage to every SciFi flick's idea of what a car from the future should sound like? Where's the fun and playfulness that computerised sound can be? And of course, a big 'off' button when you want utter silence. I presume it has one.
One would probably opt for a silent EV saloon based on comfort and effortless driving, but a Porsche, EV or ICE, remains a Porsche, so the emotional aspect of the choice is part of its DNA which definitely includes sound (not necessarily noise). As for myself, however good and convincing the Taycan GTS may be, nothing will beat or come close to a 911. You do not touch this icon, especially after 60 years of existence and evolution. 😊
Recently quoted a 2 year lead time at my local Porsche dealer for the Taycan Gran Turismo GTS .......... I walked out and bought a Merc EQ instead, delivery next Month
I laughed out loud at the 911 soundtrack played overtop the Taycan footage. I'd say driving the 911 is more like a conducting a small, tight jazz group, with mechanical noise, exhaust tone, intake whoosh, shift snaps, and engine load all playing their own important parts, live at your command, while the Taycan is like a listening to a high def recording of that group played through your car's speakers with far less nuance and control. I'd rather have an actual high def jazz recording played through the EV's speakers than drive-inspired noise, and I'd rather own the 911. But I'd rather look at the Taycan!
Porsche does drive like a Porsche
But does it drive like a porshe 911
The title does seem dumb if you don’t bother reading all of it.
Interesting car choices
@@an_archy physics denies it to
Strange
As a professional piano player, your discussion about digital pianos vs real pianos and artificial engine sound was interesting. I am old enough to have been around when digital instruments were just starting. The tech is so good nowadays, that a real piano and a digital are virtually indistinguishable. But only in recordings. In person, there is still no comparison; that is because even a high end pro digital piano needs really good speakers to hear, it can't match the real thing. However, I have a 6 foot grand that I have to tune 3 times per year and I often find myself playing the digital keyboard. For live and recording, a good quality digital synth/keyboard is a matter of convenience now (since sound is not an issue). (That said, you will NEVER see a large symphony using a digital synth in place of a 9 foot Steinway); Cars? I absolutely hate the way fake/piped in engine noise sounds. But who knows, maybe it will get better as years go on, or we will just get used to the silence. For digital instruments, we use them because it is more practical; but they MUST make good sound. In the end though, give me a Porshce NA, flat 6 revving to 9k! Now that is music!
I've wondered why they don't just make a Porsche EV motor turn an air pump, to compress and release air, to make the same flat-6 firing order, slight vibration, amd sound by moving air.
The problem lies in the poor analog the video is trying to give here, while a piano's note can be captured and simulated down to virtually the same as the original. It is much harder to replicate an six or eight-cylinder piston trusting from 1000rpm to 8000rpms as the data is substantially larger and astronomical to calculate and simulate; it is just so drastically different.
The problem that I had with the Piano argument is that piano's purpose, electric or not, is to create sound. A car's primary purpose is to move, the sound is only a byproduct of the original mode of power, that being the combustion engine,. Electric motors do make a noise, a noise that can at times, be grating on the ears. The silence of EVs has more to do with the comfort of the drivers/ passengers than it has to do with any sort of regulations. I feel that potentially, EVs will have a very specifically designed series of resonance chambers near the motors in order to manipulate the sound in a way that is pleasing to those both inside and out of the vehicle.
@@chsi5420 This is a problem that needs addressing. A nice combustion engine sounds great, an EV motor produces a frequency range that is neither good nor silent, instead it is irritating. This is why EVs have much more dampening than gas cars. Engineers need to tune EVs to produce more harmonious sound.
in recordings a real piano and a midi piano are indistinguishable because the midi piano uses real piano recordings as well, if not even more precise than an average studio can record a real piano. I would imagine that electric cars making noises are more akin to artists lip syncing on stage. What the audience hears is not what's being performed, but the "artist" goes thru the motions and pretends he/she is performing. Casuals will get entertained and are happy, they couldn't care less. People who actually care would question why did they pay for tickets to watch someone pretend they are singing.
I am right now choosing between these 2 cars. The Taycan is so much more practical, much cheaper probably also to maintain and much more available. The 911 is the icon since I was a kid. I’m sure my wife and dog will love the Taycan a lot more.
Nice video, very well conceptualised and executed, and some excellent points. It will be fascinating to see what happens once battery density improves, and EVs get to comparable weight (say in about 10 years). But the same instant torque, low centre of gravity.
800kg or 1700lbs+. the Taycan may do a good job of "hiding" the weight (and I agree that it does) but no one should interpret that to mean "invisible" (because it isn't). just had a highly optioned RWD Taycan loaner for 2 days and the very first thing that jumped out at me driving it was the sensation of EXTREME MASS. even without a front motor once you add the driver - me - back in to the equation the total weight going down the road is still over 2336kg or 5150lbs to be exact (I know because I scaled the car which most don't do). edit: the Turismo models are that much heavier still over the Sedan/Saloon but either trim I would take over a Model S Plaid without hesitation.
Try a different Taycan for comparison. The base model likely had crap for tires. Indeed that would be a frightening experience, and I know it doesn't represent its handling capabilities anywhere close to the GTS
Amazing video guys! I personally love the Taycan GTS, and love that it represents something else than a shouting sub 2 second 0-60 time. Its really desirable, and i think looks wise, the panamera sport turismo looks a bit bulky sitting next to it. Cant wait to hear your take on the upcoming cayman and boxter ev's. If someone is going to make something involving, its Porsche.
Would be fun to see someone drive a 911 with aero grade sound proof ear protection and compare the feel vs the taycan.
Really glad this has generated so many thoughtful comments. Thank you - I really mean it. The piano analogy was one that only occurred to me whilst I was driving the Taycan and although I know it is imperfect as a comparison, I'm pleased I included it and that it has resulted in some great insight and debate. The next film will be in a few weeks and should certainly have plenty of noise (courtesy of a naturally aspirated V12...!).
For me, the piano analogy doesn’t quite work. But it stimulates debate, so including it is valuable.
can't wait! Thank you for all you do!
@Henry Catchpole Thank you for all your wonderful reviews. Even if I’ll never drive an RS3, Taycan GTS or any of the incredible cars you review, it’s nice to be able to escape from the chaos of the world and be transported into the driver seat through your amazing insights and narration!
Happy to see you continuing to produce quality content. I thought I’d seen the last of you.
Now on my 5th month with my first electrified vehicle, and I'm with you. There's room for excitement about what comes next. Yes, it will be different, but I've stopped seeing that as bad. Thanks for the lovely review. And for the record, that 911 sound put on to the Taycan did not make my brain happy. Felt like I was being actively lied to.
I love you Henry, you're the ONLY journalist who has said "A fun EV is not about straight line performance, but about feel 🧐" YES, You're just THE BEST! ❤️🙌🏻
I feel like the transition from ICE to EVs will be like the transition from books to digital reading, sure digital is more convinient and what most of the people do, but if you want a book you can still buy it since digital reading doesn't replace everything 🧐 So hopefully you can still get an ICE car with Synthetic Fuels in the future if you really want to :)
I’ve been a passenger in 3 different Teslas and the instant torque is unpleasant. And I love aggressive driving. I had a feeling that EVs made by car companies instead of tech companies would get this right.
@@sportbikejesus Oooh, I see! I haven't been a passenger in one, But I have seen a lot journalists saying either they need a break or like "Please stop accelerating, I'm about to puke 🤢" And yes! I totally believe you! We need linear power curves :),
ICE cars are going to be around for a long time. For enthusiasts and for other people who hold onto them for other reasons
@@tyrellcobb4665 I pray for that to be the case, since nothing would make me happier 🌚❤️
sure but will be with no use if these cars with synthetic fuels would be 100k+ sports cars for the rich. Not all enthusiasts can come up with the money for a brand new 911.
Upsides of not realising Henry has moved on from Carfection:
- a lot of Henry videos to catch up on on Hagerty
- not accidentally clicking on a video with the world's worst Clarkson impersonator
Carfection has died :(
Master Oogwey would beg to differ
Who's the worst Clarkson impersonator
Clarkson is a horrible and disrespectful person anyway...I agree about Henry though. 😅
@@R8andGT3Fan he was funny if you're like a college sophomore fratboy... or a boomer. I don't know if its about current era, but I felt like I just grew out of shallow content.
No EV for me NO I rather enjoy driving a 100HP 1980 Toyota celica
As an avid piano player, I found the comparison brilliant. For most people, a Nord with all the synthetic range is actually more usable, accessible, and helpful than a grand. But then if you’ve ever played a perfectly tuned Yamaha, the travel of the keys, resonance of the physical object is pure theatre and goosebumps. Not for everyone, but for the enthusiasts, it’s an absolute delight.
It's a similar analogy to wireless earbuds and wired headphones. For all the advancement of wireless Bluetooth audio, there's no getting away from the fact that wired headphone still gives the best sound quality. That's before you even introduce to DAC audio, especially on LG flagship smartphones and ASUS gaming smartphones.
As a musician (and also a carmine red Taycan owner) I loved this video. 🙂 I agree that, for the listener, a synthetic piano doesn't make any difference anymore but for the person playing the piano, it is a totally different experience. There's the vibration of the instrument under your fingers and all the mechanical clicks and clacks that make it a very "connected" experience. It is very inconvenient to record, though. You need to tune it every few sessions, and being completely mechanical, something will eventually need to be fixed. I suppose the same things can be said from an ICE car. I must point out that when you play a piano your main object is to make music with the sounds. In a car, the sounds are a side effect of the main activity which is driving. I believe it's mostly learned association from years of worshipping race cars. After driving exclusively electric cars for the past decade (Tesla Model S 8 years, Taycan 1 year) I come out with two conclusions relevant to this conversation: (1) The sound of ICE cars pushing is not fun for me any more. The same as the smell of the gas burning, the sound only reminds me of how inefficient ICE engines are in terms of all the fuel that they burn to move the same amount or less. (2) No one has ever walked out of my Taycan or Tesla after a joy ride without a HUGE excited smile in their face. Let's do it again! Again! is all you will hear. After all, it feels like flying, effortless. Do you need sounds to make skydiving exciting?
That's really interesting. Thank you for taking the time to post that.
When it comes to fake sound, I think it's fine so long as it's an "electric" noise
A fake v8 is stupid in every sense, but I would not at all mind an electric whine, one similar to the mach e 1400 and vw idr's but less intrusive
As a current Taycan owner, I can honestly say it's a true gem of a car. And in a lot of situations it's the car you want to drive, over the 911. Not as a people carrier, but as the more fun sports car. The abundance of power readily available at all times for instance, makes it the far more enjoyable car out of the bends. Especially going uphill. If you have the car with torque vectoring, it's even better. I've chased GT3s uphill through hairpin turns, gaining on the GT3s. So it handles extremely well for such a heavy car. It's also surprisingly close to the 911 in how it feels like in your hands. If not for the engine sounds of the 911, there's not a huge difference. And with the PDCC system (dynamic chassis control), it's so flat through the bends it's mind boggling. It is safe to say that the future is totally safe. And we will get fun and engaging cars, also in the future.
EVs are actually helping in democratizing horsepower and torque, as cheaper cars can have more horsepower than industry ICE staple or past muscle and have also more torque than comparable horsepower ICE cars.
Nice to see Henry on this channel, thanks all round!
I've had a Taycan for 2 years now, you really have to drive one to appreciate how good it is. I've had 2 911's, including a GT3, so I have some great comparisons!
I believe a $150k Taycan is fun to drive. But what I worry about is whether there will be any $30-50k EVs that will be fun to drive?
Still, hands down 992 for pure pleasure. Taycan can be a very nice daily.
That is, as if I can afford both lol.
Excellent video Henry. Brilliant idea to compare these two without preconceptions. Love the looks of the Taycan GTS, can’t wait to try it at some point. 👍 The sound of an EV is an interesting debate, and indeed it’s interesting how we accept some synthetic sounds and not others. Nobody complains about the shutter sound on a camera phone, and perhaps even some of the younger generation aren’t even aware of what it’s emulating.
I remember people hating on it back in the day, and commonly in my experience everyone has the sound off. (Unless they’re from/using a phone from Japan)
I think a Samsung or one company made a really weird sounding noise that it was even mentioned in reviews.
It’s also instantly turned off on every point and shoot camera I’ve had.
I wonder why no one ever does this kind of comparison between the Taycan and the Panamera. I feel like that's really what the Taycan is directly replacing, so it would be more of an apples to apples comparison.
Probably because Panamera was not a huge success, and Porsche Marketing department wont gain anything out of that comparison. They want to sell the idea of their EVs being natural successor to their sports car pedigree! But yes, your point is bang on that would be the right comparison. This is simply NOT, and in fact is WRONG. Taycan does not, by any stretch of imagination drive even closer to a 911.
I thought no one could top the lucid air review by Jason, and here we are , Henry just went above and beyond, loved it 🤌✨
I really like the keyboard analogy that Henry used but I would imagine the reason why we as humans don’t mind keyboards is that the sound is the primary function of that device, much like the piano it synthesises. With the ICE car, the sound is always a by product of the functioning of it where transportation or movement is the primary function. This byproduct of sound however, as we know, can be a very pleasing addition to the driving experience which adds involvement, character and excitement. With an EV therefore, the sound is contrived for no other reason than simply to be there, it’s entirely disconnected from either the primary function of that type of car or from being present as a byproduct and so I think deep down there’s always a part of the driver that thinks what’s the point of the fakery. I’m neither here nor there on it to be honest, but the discussion about interests me to no end.
Came here to say this. The entire goal of the keyboard is to emulate a piano and make sound, and the piano's function is similarly purely to create that sound, not a byproduct of some other main function like you said. On that grounds, the more fitting analogy with a piano and keyboard that's closest to an ICE car and an EV one would be a keyboard manufacturer adding weight to a keyboard to more closely resemble the heft of a traditional piano. Nobody would really want that by comparison, but in a similar sense, the weight of a traditional stringed piano is simply a byproduct of it's design that allows it to perform its primary function of making sound, just like the sound of an ICE car is the byproduct of its primary function of providing propulsion.
A piano exists solely to make sound, as does a keyboard, so emulating anything other than this function in a keyboard would similarly be seen as useless and gimmicky. A car does not exist solely to make sound, so pointlessly emulating sound when the primary function is otherwise entirely accomplished without it is rightfully criticized for the same reasons. It's useless and gimmicky.
I too was looking for this comment. Well said Nick Catelli. A fake engine sound to me would be like putting emblems/stickers of high end or performance cars on a GEO Metro! As a matter of fact, imagine getting into a small non performing car, you hit the accelerator and it sounds like a Porsche or even a Harley Davidson bike!!!
If you listen closely though, EV motors do make a sound especially when accelerating hard... maybe making sure it "sounds" good would be the way to go?
One point of the fake engine sound it is it's another useful data point while driving.
When driving, even if you don't think about it, the sound of the engine helps you quantify speed. In a silent, will insulated car, absent looking at the speedometer, it is tough to know if you're coming into that corner 20 miles an hour too hot. Knowing what gear you're in and the sound of the engine gives you an idea how fast you're going, even if not consciously. .
In a silent car, that data point is lost. Artificial noise that changes pitch with speed is an auditory data point that helps you drive.
If it doesn't drive you nuts.
I've been waiting months for Henry to get a crack at the Taycan GTS. A fantastic video as always, and I loved the commentary and comparison!
The Panamera is the appropriate comparison to the Taycan in my opinion
Doesn't matter what channel your on always epic content.. amazing piece to camera as also.
Thanks for putting the effort in..
Epic as always thanks forn sharing..
😎
Finally!! An EV review that is not about 0-60. If the future of EV is all about acceleration and straight line speed, the future of driving is bleak. Thanks to Porsche for keeping hope alive even if slim.
Totally agree!
Catchpole... any EV content automatically receive thumbs down! Stop the nasty EV propaganda! 🤢😡
ok boomer
I would add that all this talk about sound comes more from a spectator point of view. If you're watching a video on RUclips, of course that the sound makes it more exciting. Otherwise it would feel kinda boring. This is why they add music soundtracks to movies, to evoque emotions that would otherwise come out flat. EXCEPT to the people experiencing the actual emotions. In this case, the person driving it would feel all the effortless acceleration, G-force, etc.
Come on my friend, be honest, closer to a high end Panamera
I think we should have a little fun with EVs I would like to see a menu where you can pick the sound you want from V12 F1 to farm tractor and anything in between 😂 and yes the option for completely silent as well
I like your idea 💯
I have a Taycan Turbo & I really wish they'd gone that direction. If you're gonna give me fake noise, make it fake GT3 engine noise instead of the weird spaceship sound.
I drive a Taycan 4s. The first week or two, I felt like I was missing the sound of a roaring engine. But after that periof of adjustment, I switched completely. Now, I absolutely love the experience of speed combined with relative silence. It sort of adds to the cool factor. I feel we have connected speed to sound in our minds. But we can easily undo the brainwashing. When all cars in the future would be EVs, I’m pretty sure no one will end up missing the engine roars. It will be like the sound of a steam train. Something from the past.
I have the GTS Taycan and my last daily was a Cadillac CTSV (650hp) The Taycan is just as much fun to drive and faster.
I'm on the hill of wanting a manual gearbox until I die, so I may not be the best opinion. But hats off the Porsche to making a good driving EV. And I'll admit I never have driven a Taycan or even could afford one to get that out of the way. But to me driving is not only the feel of the wheel, but also the engagement. Every time I jump in an automatic ICE car I think "wow this is boring to drive" no matter what it is. Your own video on why manuals matter goes over every reason of that. Now i'm sure for the population that drive automatic ICE cars, this probably isn't any different and a great alternative. For me giving up driving involvement is one reason I never want one, but I'm sure the day will come that it's my only option and I am afraid then I have to give up one of my hobbies.
A good EV can be tremendously engaging. In a different way.
I'm a die-hard car guy. I've owned and daily driven manuals, and currently own a 911. I've also owned two EV's in my life and I am contemplating a Taycan. There's no shifting, there's no sound from an EV. There's no rumble of the engine. Because of, well, life, I've gone from daily driving my EV to my 911. It's proven to be interesting.
But...there are things I miss about the driving engagement of my EV. Yes, driving engagement. You know how N/A guys are always touting "throttle response" as why they prefer them to forced induction. Well, imagine throttle response 100X sharper. Imagine power being available...NOW. Imagine being to literally think about a gap in traffic and be there, instantly. That's what good EV brings to the party. And it's an amazing feeling, when you can meter out the power with millimetric precision. And with no gearshifts (or one in the case of the Taycan), you get into a different kind of flow.
The flow of driving an ICE powertrain is as much about managing the powertrain's curves as it is the handling. When you're no longer managing the powertrain, but truly commanding it, the intensity that you can bring to the handling ramps up. It's really, REALLY enjoyable to get into the flow of a good set of turns when you can manage the throttle with such precision. You really can focus on the weight transfer fore and aft, and feel it affect grip.
So it's not only the "feel of the wheel" Henry is likely referring to, but the whole package. I would encourage you to try a properly developed EV for a decent amount of time and see what you think.
Remember 10 years ago when all you journalists praised the Panamera for being the 4-door 911? That once you get behind the wheel you forget about the back seats and you're just like in a 911? Well, my dad bought himself one and when I drove it, it was a boat. A luxury-performance limousine. Very fast car, but nothing sports about it. Just the artificial "sports feel" of hard suspension and agressive locking rear diff when put in Sport Plus mode. But still nothing 911 about it.
I don't trust you guys anymore.
Here’s my issue with performance EV’s: I do not want to drive an hour and a half to the mountains, rip up the mountain roads and then be stranded. Right now, I can fill up with gas, have the time of my life, then fill up at the gas station at the base of the mountains and drive home. Until I can get this experience in an EV, I have no interest in them.
It DOES NOT drive like a Porsche, let alone like a 911!
Having driven both, I fail to understand how any sports car enthusiast can even call Taycan a drivers car, let alone comparing it with a 911 GTS. Unless ofcourse there is Porsche marketing dept at play here. It feels heavy (its not just about acceleration, but handling), steering is too light and lacks feedback for a proper drivers car, and you are sat a bit too high.. its like an anti-sports car recipe. So yes, if 'push back in the seat acceleration if your thing - you'll love it.. but if you love driving proper sports cars, it's likely not your thing.
I have driven a lot of cars on track including the 911, boxer s, cayman s and BMW M3. I have also driven more then 30 EVs. The Taycan is by a margin the best EV I have ever driven, it is also one of the best cars I have driven.
Is it as exciting as a naturally aspirated V8 with a double clutch slamming in gear after gear, or as exciting as a turbo flat 6 with a manual gearbox?
No! but it's a really great car, and no other EV drives as good and gives you the enjoyment.
It feels heavy when loaded up in the corners but less so than any other EV.
The sound, gives you a sense of speed wich you don't get without the sound on especially for passengers the sound prevents nausea 😉
I didn't realize there were more than 30EVs worth driving in production?
@@TheExotich1 most of them aren't 😁
I just bought a Taycan Turbo S Sedan. The car is amazing, super practical comparing to the 911. I miss the 911 in certain circumstances, but in general for a father of 2 young kids, the Taycan is just perfect !!
Love your review...I'm very fortunate to own a Taycan GTS, beautiful car, great performance for the whole family, but it just lacks soul...sound is so important for a performance car.
I get so excited hearing my wife's Macan Turbo snack crackle and pop...even the kids love the sound.
Watching this Video in my 4.8 Cayenne GTS. Sound of a screaming V8 just does it for me. And I don’t get range anxiety
I can say without even watching - it doesn't drive like the 911, for one simple reason: weight. Now I'll watch the video and see how wrong I was 😅
The purpose of EVs is the real question. We cannot deny their immediate torque...that's FUN. The problems, however, go deep. If we desire all passenger cars to be EV by 2035 we nee a lot more electrical generation. Some say we should have been building 1Gw nuclear power plants once a week since last year to meet that basic need. That hasn't and will not happen.
If EVs do continue to use fake engine noise, I think I'd prefer to hear the sounds of the gearbox, diffs, and electric motors amplified and piped in rather than the sound of a four cylinder or v8 that isn't there.
Took delivery of a 4S Cross Turismo 9 weeks ago, with all performance options including the not tested here in this video PSC brakes. Sound can be selected or deselected but comes on as default in Sport Plus, and provides help in gauging speed. Hunkered down in Sport Plus, the Taycan is composed, with little to no body roll and as you mention, Henry, arguably better suspended than the 992 over bumpy roads. WIth torque vectoring, dynamic chassis control and PASM along with the 4WS, corners are dispatched with delight and nary a hint of concern over the additional heft. While not shown in this vid, it's outrageous to launch- like an arrow from a bow, not a peep or slightest hint of wheel spin.
I’m all for the space 99 / Star Trek spaceship launch sounds ; given time we’ll all get used 2 em 😊😊
OK, if manufacturers want to waste money on artificial sound, there are going to be drivers who like it. But - and this applies to both EVs and ICE vehicles - it should have an OFF switch.
I am an old school enthusiast, with a 1985.5 944 and a 2011 911 GTS in the garage, both of which I will never sell. My wife just took delivery of a 2023 Taycan 4S Cross Tursimo 30 days ago (and over 2,300 miles already!) and as much as it shocks me to say this, the Taycan not only drives like a 992 911, it is actually the most fun car I have ever driven. And I'm no Henry, but I have driven my fair share of exotic and supercar machinery. Porsche absolutely nailed it with this one, and the upcoming electric Cayman and Boxster should be stupendous! Great piece as always, Henry!
Regarding noise in EVs. Why not give the driver the option? People aren't a monolith, some may want silence while others want Star Wars and others want fake engine noise. Maybe I want silence while half asleep on the way to work, but a fake V12 on the way home. Let them choose their experience. I've had enough of so called enthusiasts talking in absolutes, the second I hear someone doing that I know they aren't someone I care to converse with. Also, you can have cool natural sounds from EVs. I've driven a Ford eTransit a few times and since it has zero sound insulation in the cargo area, and that's open to the cabin, I could hear everything. It made the same breadth of noises as my modified hot hatch. It made sounds based on speed, accelerator pedal position, and acceleration or deceleration. It sounds more fun than the average commuter car does. If EVs were designed to let you hear some of these noises it would go a long way to making them more fun.
😂the dig at Porsche for putting the "Turbo" name in their EV's during the pedals section
Everything about EVs has accentuated the electronic, so the sound should too. Finding something joyful and motivating , like our well-crafted dinosaur burners can be, will be a tricky puzzle to solve, but it shouldn’t be the same.
I don't want a car which disguises it's weight. I want this chassis in a car with 500kg less, imagine how good that would drive.
The cinematography! Thank you so much!
I don't any issues with EV's. As for pure fun I like my old 964. No it's not the fastest and doesn't have all the tech. As long as they manufacturer gas I'm going to keep driving it. Thanks for the content.
What an absolutely incredible review and production. I'd have the Taycan GTS hands down, looks incredible.
Superb use of the Tycan's 'engine' noise as part of the intro soundtrack. Bravo!
Another huge plus for the Taycan is a usable back seat. I love that in my Panamera I can my wife and our friends out in style.
I honestly don't care if its 3 times as fast.. its still just an uninteresting EV like every other.. a necessity, nothing more.
This guy's sound is damn therapeutic!
Loved our Taycan CT. An incredible drivers EV. The updated Taycan is just around the corner, I for one hope to be front of the queue.
I'm lucky enough to have driven a Taycan on launch day. And then spent a few days with a Taycan Turbo a bit after that. And funny enough I also had a 911 carrera 4S (992) at the time with me. So I got to compare the both of them side by side. Taycan Turbo and 911 Carrera 4S (ok not the best comparison, but it's what I could manage).
I made a video for youtube (for another channel which I wont bother sharing... its in Portuguese) where I actually said the exact same thing. The Taycan is the best EV (for me) and it really feels like a 911 in some aspects, which is amazing considering its a 4door EV vs a 2door sports car. It's a great example what can be done if a EV is done right and with the right mindset.
I'm a car photographer, so I am lucky enough to have driven most EV's from big brands since I work with Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, etc and although a lot of people seem against EVs (in Portugal they say "carro a pilhas" [battery powered car - like a blender] in a depreciative way), I do find some EV's to be amazing cars when done right. And I own 2 myself.
Great video guys! Love it.
Henry, great that you focus on how it drives and the feel. As you say the straight line speed is largely irrelevant. I'm not a fan of fake engine noise, unless a new car can persuade me otherwise.
I want an electric one to go to work and a V8 to enjoy life on weekends and vacations. the proposal is simple: a tie tied around the neck is elegant. but nothing beats a cold beer and a V8 under the hood.
Very thought provoking review. The Taycan is the one EV that I lust after, especially in Sport Turismo guise. I have never been a fan of the front end but the rest of the car more than compensates for that. Personally I love the funky synthesised sounds too. Range and charging will only get better so I take huge comfort in what Porsche has achieved here.
Porsche did an amazingly good job for this first ever EV. I prefer the sedan layout and look, personally - it's more like a 911, in fact sometimes people ask if it's a 911! Also I like a real trunk in the back for security, so I have practical reasons for it.
Exactly,the front of taycan sucks,wish it looked like 911
@@shibilm.n4073 Funny thing is when I'm driving people stare at it from the front, they also take pictures...
The school kids think it's a Lamborghini..LOL
@@WestCoastSupercarsandClassics I like those round headlights of 911,just a personal opinion though😄.Not a fan of Lamborghini design,except for urus
I’m environmentally conscious, I’ll take the 911 thanks 😉
It is great that Porsche has their own superlative examples to benchmark against. I also appreciate that they have put effort into the entire driving experience rather than focusing nearly exclusively on straight-line performance, like so many others.
Even so, I am still hoping that somebody (anybody really) will aim to create a replacement for the combination of handling, feel, utility, and value of my Golf Mk. 7 Sportswagen GT (R-Line). An EV that is less tall, less heavy, maybe even with less acceleration, but with handling that is reminiscent of a GTI or other hot hatch. I can learn to be happy without the human/maching interface of the manual transmission, but I would like to have the option of buying an EV that has at least taken my motoring desires into account.
Would be great nterested in knowing how many miles were covered in the Taycan on a single charge vs mpg on the 911. This is quite a pertinent point when it comes to living with an EV. Temperature also drastically affects battery range.. Personally, I think there is further advancement needed in battery tech before I could realistically consider buying an EV of any sort.
Same here 👌
This issue is mostly a non-issue unless you live in the middle of nowhere.
Longer road trips do involve some planning, that said it's never hindered me in 21K miles of GTS ownership 🏁
The problem with the Tycan is it’s small inside and big outside. With the seat all the way back, I am still cramped and I am looking at the pillar when I look to the left, and there is absolutely no room behind the drivers seat. How could it be so small, a Panamerica is huge inside compared to it.
Not exactly small on the inside, however smaller than a Audi A6 Avant
Wouldn't a better comparison have been the Panamera GTS against the Taycan? These two cars serve such drastically different purposes that this is less of ICE vs EV as it is Sports Car vs Daily Driver.
I like Porsche ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Henry, electronic keyboards are NOT the same as a real piano.
wouldnt it have been better to compare it to a Panamera...
My one biggest gripe with EVs is indeed their sound, as a result I have personally nothing against-and rather everything for-fake sounds. Being able to hear in the cabin (not outside, that's pointless) a credible V8 or V6 or inline 6 at the touch of a button would be a big selling point for me.
excessive external noise is pointless but i think having some could help pedestrians/cyclists that can't see you know that you're there
@@DavidChong true
If I were to build my own EV, it would have a modestly powerful motor mated to a manual gearbox with straight cut gears, then solid mount that assembly to the chassis so all that noise goes to the cabin. I know EVs can be fun, we just need to shift how we think about them.
My favorite automotive journalist right there!
I'll still choose the C8 zo6
An ICE engine's sound serves a very practical purpose: it is a real-time audible indication of engine loading (e.g. the relationship between what the motor and tires can deliver relative to what the driver has requested via the accelerator pedal). It is not clear to me that the synthetic EV sounds even provide this function (even though it should be straightforward for the drive inverter to accurately measure this). I get the impression that the lion's share of manufacturer effort is put into making EVs sound like movie spaceships.
I would MUCH rather drive the 911.
I love the look of a taycan especially in this spec. Maybe not in red but if someone was to give me one for free I wouldn't complain about it being red. Awesome video as always.
So actually our brain connects sensations to emotions. And this is learned from birth. The reason why we like the sound of engines is because we associate it with the performance of a car or the joy driving it. Eventually the same thing will happen with (authentic) EV motor noise. It will just take a generation. Or two.
Wouldn’t a panamera be a better comparison?
In Turkey because of high taxes 911 turbo S is 1m USD, taycan turbo s 200k USD. So Taycan is the best :)
No replacement for displacement.
In my opinion.. The engineers should just go full bore with properly engineered sound, for three reasons..
1. It's just more engaging (more about this in a sec)
2. The quickest feedback path in our brain is through our ears. Studies show we can respond to auditory cues faster than visual cues. I want the EV sounds to not just be soothing whooshing and whirring, but to tell me what the car is actually doing. Like one tone that varies proportional to speed, and another sub tone that varies (maybe in volume) by torque. Maybe a subwoofer note to tell me when the tires are scrabbling for traction, and so forth..
3. Why not? If it can be turned on/off/customized, then the people who want it, can use, and those that don't can turn it off.
Back to engagement. I own a 2004 Golf R32 which has an great stock exhaust note (search for videos of it). We nicknamed the sound the "Angry Wookie", and there is nothing more enjoyable to cruise around at 6/10ths on a twisty road with the windows down. But I was losing power to my high altitude location, so I put a turbo on it, and (as we see with modern turbo cars) it mostly just shut off the glorious exhaust note any time I put my foot in it. Went from Angry Wookie to nebulous asthmatic whooshing sound. I *really* hated it. Without the enjoyment of sound, I had to drive the car much harder to exploit the benefits of the added power. It got so bad I was actually considering removing the turbo. Eventually I found a mostly open cat back exhaust that could bring the sound *almost* back to stock levels (still a little quieter) with a return of the old brassy note.
Every time I see a review of some fast EV, I'm reminded of how miserable I was when I lost the exhaust note of my own car. They just leave me cold. I'm not the least bit interested in owning an EV until they solve (or let others hack) the sound engineering. Heck they could simulate gear shifts and other stuff too.
Wait.. we're excluding the transmission? Why? Even a PDK is more engaging in "manual mode" than.. well.. nothing. Obviously EVs don't NEED a gearbox (in most cases), but that's like saying ICE vehicles don't NEED a massive slab of batteries, so we're just going to ignore that extra 1,000 kgs. Removing one of the core aspects of the ICE driving experience seems strange. I mean.. why not just say, "well they both have 4 wheels and a steering wheel.. so let's just agree that they're identical"
I just don't like ICE engine noises. Sorry, but I don't, especially the waste gates that just scream wasted fossil fuel to me. I love driving my Mach-E GT, appreciating the *feel*, and focusing on the experience without being interrupted by ICE sounds.
I know, I'm in the minority, but I am thrilled with near-silent EV driving.
The sound in a car is part of the pleasure AND it (used to) help driving better. Controling the car, braking and avoiding speed cameras just with the sound.
So, yes, if I ever buy an EV, I want it with sound !
And external sound for the people around to know you r there.
And for the stupid cyclist dressed as Eddy Merckx thinking they own all the road, while there is a (very expensive) cycle path just less than a meter away . But ok, I live in Belgium, where some dumbasses really think their stupid 'sport' is better if it creates problems for other people. And that the sport is much better for you if you wear nuts-molding leggings and a shirt full of sponsors. They don't even realize they, themselves, pay the sponsors. It says a lot.
I think i digress. Oops
I designed and ran racing cars for almost all my career. I bought a Taycan CT4S after test drive. I appreciate the quietness and engine response and characteristic, free of the vagaries of narrow working range due to gas flow of all IC engines it needs neither gearbox nor clutch which for me is a huge plus. The lack of lag and wide power band make it even better than my old TVR Griffith for overtaking. I hated the faux noise and switched it off after seconds so didn’t spec it on my car (I still have a sports car with 3 pedals and 6-speed box if I need a noise). The width and weight I dislike but the car really feels smaller than it is - unlike the Audi E-Tron GT strangely. As a road car probably the best I’ve ever driven, too heavy for track though.
Henry, you could sell anything including this Taycan. I hope I never have to take my Porsche and Audis off the road. Long live petrol cars!!!!!!!!!!!! Cheers Henry.😀
Great piece Mr C. I drive a 991 C4S (partly your fault) and I borrowed a Taycan 4S when it needed a service. I agree with the review, and was surprised how good the Taycan’s steering, brakes and handling were! However it did feel very wide inside, more GT than sports. Above everything though, when driving the 911 I feel joy, the Taycan was, well, nice, just nice. And that’s not enough. Maybe the electric Boxter will be the real deal in a few years time.
PS The noise really matters!
I have an issue with the sound of an EV. Firstly; I think that it absolutely must have a sound. I've seen enough EV's creep up on people and them just not knowing that they're there. Second: the sound of an ICE is just pants in an EV! That just doesn't belong imho. So that leaves a unique, distinctive sound that is also complimentary to the driving experience. Now; I don't care if it sounds like a Cylon Basestar, KITT, a TIE fighter - pick what you want but it must have something. Perhaps AI can come up with something - that would probably be apt.
Right now it feels like EVs are everywhere and they feel largely faceless to me...
Whenever I share my head at fake sounds, I have to remind myself how there is claim that Steve McQueen overdubbed the car chase in Bullit for the Mustang to sound visceral with a Ford GT40 or how the lovely "C'était un rendez-vous" is told to have overdubbed with the Lelouch's (the director) Ferrari 275GTB.
Fake sounds can be good eh ?
A good MIDI graded weight hammer action keyboard utilises ‘samples’ (recording of a real piano note) through 127 samples from quiet to loud, slow to fast hammer etc. Adopting that principle, why can’t an ICE engine be sampled in the same way & replayed to be played back through the throttle inputs across the pedals use? Yes it will be fake and the quality of the speakers & sub woofers will influence the effect, but it should be close to convincing. I have lots of guitars & amps, but these days good music software & DAW means that I generally only play through the laptop & my analog valve kit & effects sits idle. I still want a real engine though & EV’s emphatically are NOT anymore eco when considered across their lifecycle from production on, so what’s the point? It’s certainly not going to save the planet & 3 tonne EV’s produce huge tyre particulate pollution. Synthetic & Efuels are the way forward.
The throttle thing (about 7 minutes in). That’s possible in an ICE car, it’s just a fashion for stupid non-linear throttles that the 911, annoyingly, complies with. Racing cars and full on drivers cars, like my old 2-Eleven, have linear throttles. Some remaps allow this, but it’s a shame Porsche pander to fashion.
Judging by the build sheets of Taycans for sale (at least in the USA), disturbingly few have the Performance Package (or constituent options like PTV+, 4WS, etc.). Does this mean most Porsche buyers are preoccupied with decorating their vehicle with rim and color choices rather than driving a great-handling vehicle?
1. comparing these cars is like comparing a gaming chair to a lounge chair. They both do the same thing but each does its intended purpose better than the other. Why do manufacturers see the need to merge them all and blur the lines? Why not make the large EV super luxurious like Rolls or Bentley and push for more Hydrogen powered sports cars
2. Why dont manufacturers give customers CHOICE in the sound their cars pump into the cabin (or even outside). I would love to have my EV sound like a angry LAZY v8 inside whilst having the JETSONS hovercraft noise on the outside
You can't say it holds a candle to the 911 when it feels worse than the 911.
People when comparing cars will bring Automatic transmission vs Manual: "Oh this car only comes in Automatic, so it doesn't feel as good". Well, you can't exclude sound, transmission, the pedal, from a non EV car to plain the field. Those are things that make that car be that car.
The Taycan IS the Taycan because it is electric, otherwise we'd be talking about some other car. This isn't the case.
You can't just "acknowledge" something and just forget about it when doing the actual comparison.
Why on earth hasn't Porsche offered a selection of it's greatest exhaust notes to listen to? Start with the 956 and 911 (all variants thereof), 928, Carerra GT. Why not let us pretend we're Steve McQueen in the 917? What is this synthetic homage to every SciFi flick's idea of what a car from the future should sound like? Where's the fun and playfulness that computerised sound can be? And of course, a big 'off' button when you want utter silence. I presume it has one.
One would probably opt for a silent EV saloon based on comfort and effortless driving, but a Porsche, EV or ICE, remains a Porsche, so the emotional aspect of the choice is part of its DNA which definitely includes sound (not necessarily noise). As for myself, however good and convincing the Taycan GTS may be, nothing will beat or come close to a 911. You do not touch this icon, especially after 60 years of existence and evolution. 😊
Recently quoted a 2 year lead time at my local Porsche dealer for the Taycan Gran Turismo GTS .......... I walked out and bought a Merc EQ instead, delivery next Month
I laughed out loud at the 911 soundtrack played overtop the Taycan footage. I'd say driving the 911 is more like a conducting a small, tight jazz group, with mechanical noise, exhaust tone, intake whoosh, shift snaps, and engine load all playing their own important parts, live at your command, while the Taycan is like a listening to a high def recording of that group played through your car's speakers with far less nuance and control.
I'd rather have an actual high def jazz recording played through the EV's speakers than drive-inspired noise, and I'd rather own the 911. But I'd rather look at the Taycan!