I think the 6mm Max vs 6mm Arc argument is missing the point, 6mm Max vs 5.56 is the actual argument. The sooner the industry recognizes this the better chances 6mm Max will have. You get significantly increased power and distance, even with shorter barrels, while maintaining 5.56 magazine capacity and bolt strength. It is targeting the hard use, regular soldier in combat use case rather than the DMR use case. It is an enhancement for the Mk18, M4 and Mk12 like guns brining them closer to the 308 performance realm while maintaining the smaller size and weight of the 5.56 guns. 6mm Max is willing to sacrifice the longer slipperier bullets that 6mm Arc can use to maintain magazine capacity and hard use durability. You are correct with your assessment regarding factory loaded ammo. If 6mm Max can have ammo available with costs similar to the mk262 style rounds it will have a good chance of succeeding.
The pink elephant in the room is the 6mm ARC is a Hornady cartridge that Hornady is pushing and supporting. I have a 6 ARC with a 20" Satern barrel and a no frills BCG. I'm using duramags and I have never had a failure of any type. It will boringly print under an inch at 100 with Hornady ELD-X 103gr. Every time I go to a store that has that ammo, I buy a couple of boxes. I'm not likely to change to the 6 MAX. The 6 MAX sounds pretty cool also, but time will tell if it will catch on and excel. There are so many new cartridges coming out they just can't all make it. I bought a 6.8 Western even though I have a 7mm Rem Mag. After owning the 6.8 for a short while, I determined for my particular uses it was no better than the 7 Mag. I still have the 7 Mag. The 6.8 went down the trail.
Truth! When something on the market is working really well, and is available, there’s very little need to chase the next fad. Occasionally something comes along, like the 6ARC, which truly is an innovation that fills a void. But then a dozen other niches come along trying to reinvent the same wheel. The 6ARC is everything the 224Valkryie could have been, and the 6Max may never get to be.
it won't already been tried as the 6mm Hagar...which is "basicly" the same thing.... cant get longer bullets out far enough in an AR and the issue with 6.5 bolt faces HAS LONG been fixed/prooven false if pressures are kept correct. Bolts last 10K rounds
I like how Bill Wilson built the 300 HMM'R. Take any "standard" AR-15, swap the barrel and maybe the gas tube, and with 300 AAC mags, you're good to go. Same thing with this 6mm Max, with 350 Legend mags.
Love my 300 ham'r 18" I might switch my 8" 300blk tob11.3 Ham'r. I have a 22" 22arc, 20" and a 24" 6 arc for farther shots. Up close the Ham'r would be devastating
What no one seems to realize is that NOW you can take all the classic 5.56 rifles that are good to 400 to 600 meters and now ream/replace the barrel only and have NEAR 6 ARC performance. Think Steyr AUG in 6 MAX!!! Europeans love 6mm for best overall performance for hunting and target shooting (and war). US military only has to buy barrels now and everyone has a 1000 meter gun!!!
It could have some appeal. As soon as an actual ammo manufacturer(s) get on board to crank out a few hundred-thousand rounds, and barrel manufacturers start making standardized, SAAMI-Spec barrels…I’ll give it a shot. Even as someone who reloads almost everything I shoot, this one is still a little too fringe; with almost no brass availability in the main stream channels. Once those criteria can be met, it could probably cause a snot-storm of 6mmMax ARs to overtake the market.
6max uses 5.56 mags, bolt. So a guy doesn't have to buy more stuff to use their rifle after a barrel swap. More case capacity and slightly less recoil. Gas gun 20 inch barrel. 58gr Vmax @ 3520fps. 90gr ELD-X @ 2825fps. 85gr soft point @ 3000fps. I'm gonna give it a whirl. 💥🇺🇲
The Arc is great for bolt guns where you can get longer bullets and still make oal. The Max is better for gas guns where you want thin and reliably feeding cases which allow for proper bolts. And in the end, both will stay niche wildcat cartridges that are way to expensive for magdumping into trash.
I can’t see the 6ARC really ever being classified as a niche cartridge given its use and servicing by Hornady; but I get your point. It could be pigeonholed if no other manufacturers ever get on board with it.
The arc is a great cartridge, it was designed to stretch the legs of a small frame AR. Where it really shines is in a bolt action where you can SAFELY ratchet up the pressure to about 62k psi. The thinned out ar bolt face won't take the pounding at that pressure very long. The Max has bolt longevity on its side, even if you push the pressure. My opinion on the Max is that, an option. All that being said, I have a bolt and gas gun in 6arc. If the Max becomes mainstream, my gas gun would get a makeover.
It’s more of a combat round to take the place of 5.56, and an upgrade to 5.56! SOLGW is making the rifle and supporting it. I love it, but I am not a competition shooter. This an excellent combat round. Works for DMR also. It is a beautiful round, but I don’t think it was ever made/designed for competition. The guy that engineered it said it was to give war fighters more power, lethality, reliability, and range than the 5.56. It was never designed to compete with the other cartridges in competition.
You can use 105s in the Max quite easily and with more common powders. Methinks in many ways, the max might end up being slightly more practical over time.
Had it come out first, I doubt we’d ever have seen the ARC. However, the ARC does have some significant advantages in bullet selection and speeds. That being the case…we’ll see how it shakes out. Starline is finally on board making brass for the ARC, so that’s a plus in the ‘win’ column.
@@calebwhiteknives I still feel the arc would have crushed it. 2/3 of any bullet over 100 grains will be in the case. I’m not hating on light bullets but high bc is trending now and the arc fits the bill. Meanwhile, the company pushing the arc has a huge fan base. I have nothing against the 6 max but if I was going to invest in a niche ar cartridge it would be the 300 hammr.’
The 6 max is a great design but I think the downside for a military cartridge or high round count weapon would be the straight walled case. The dirtier the chamber combined with thermal expansion the more chances the case could get stuck in the chamber vs the slight taper of a traditional cartridge.
@calebwhiteknives the ARC is tough to go against though since you have Hornady behind it. At least for non-reloaders. I'm wavering between the 2 at the moment.
@@MJDGator Ballistic juice aside; yeah, having the backing and experience of a company like Hornady will ensure the 6ARC sticks around for a long while. Also, doesn't hurt there is a military contract for it...usually means it's got staying power.
@@MJDGator That's the issue for me. I see the appeal of the MAX but will it survive/thrive? It might but I wouldn't bet on it. How many shops are going to be chambering barrels? How is brass availability going to look?
Seeing BC is now using SOLGW for a manufacturer, and they're now showing load data for 103 ELDX and 105BTHP, i think most of your criticisms are addressed. What I want to see done is a chamber reamer released so barrels can be spun up easier.
That would be another check in the ‘pro’ category. The more different parts of the package become accessible, the easier it’ll be to get on board with this one. I’m curious to see what sort of velocities the 103 is getting. Could make for a very potent, small-frame, deer hunting rig.
My largest interest in considering 6mm Max is the case geometry leading to better feeding reliability in a gas gun. I’ve dabbled in 6.5 Grendel for several years and I have never been impressed with the reliability of any magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds.
I like it for a tactical application. The point about bolt you made and the straight magazines. Also I like that I can shoot 55 grain at 3300 ft per second because I want to be able to punch through body armor and have even lower recoil for up close combat follow up shots. Yes i know 6arc shoots 55 grain too but going into battle with a thicker boltface makes more sense to me. I watched mr. mike at solgw shooting a 10.5 inch woth 55grains traveling over 3100 ft im pretty sure. Very nice to have say a 10.5 inch to walk around with and an 18 inch upper in the pack for.long shots and just switch to 103 grain elds
All good points. Even if you jumped up to a 70-90 grain FMJ in 6mm, it would still give some really good speed, and a bit more 'punch' for a battle/CQB cartridge.
To me 6max makes way more sense as a replacement for 5.56 then the 6.8 that Sig building for the military. The logistics makes way more sense then bringing in a whole new rifle, ammo and sacrificing the amount of ammo you can carry while dragging around a much heavier rifle.
The compatibility advantage doesn't end with the .378 rim diameter, Winchester did their Cosine(30) check when rebating the 350 legend, and it's narrow enough for mags to stack perfectly through a standard magwell provided the stiffening ribs up the mag body are shallower, which isn't a problem in steel. The 20's are already out and they're the same width as standard, just longer. 30s are on the way. I hope that a family of cartridges based on the 350legend succeeds, it could even revive the quarter-bore. It'll drive those 117's I bet.
As a person who owns neither, I would choose 6mm Max. It appears to be functionally superior and more durable. Its using a case that's more akin to 5.56, while the ARC is using an AK-47 derivative case. 6mm ARC has the advantage of using longer bullets, but I think their use-case is low-frequency. Even so, they have loaded 105 bthps in the 6mm Max without issue. Add in magazine, temperature sensitive propellants, and gas system problems, the Max seems like its the smarter option for an AR-15.
Well said about SAAMI approved cartridge 6 ARC vs Wildcat, any type .243 cal. cartridge. Unless multiple commercial ammo makers adopt and manufacture the ammo, then it is a niche cartridge. Hornady hit a homerun, with the ARC but sadly could not keep up with the brass supply.
@@calebwhiteknives Same problem though 3 months backorder is not uncommon. My bias is hunting and not long range target shooting. The 6-ARC really shines in the 75-90 grain hunting bullet class whereby muzzle velocity exceeds 3,000 fps with devastating on game terminal performance. Hornady has yet to load the lighter grain hunting bullets to help broaden the market of this cartridge. Instead, they developed the 22 ARC to fill that void and further exacerbate the future availability of the ARC class brass.
@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 yeah they just cant seem to help themselves. would have been helpful for them to start making a varmint load for the 6ARC, and focus on feeding the market.
Fantastic video. Really concise analysis, No offense to BC Precision, but unless/until they get a major ammo manufacturer to support this, I think it will just be a quasi-commercial/wildcat cartridge. It's a interesting idea, but I think the .441 bolt face Grendel, 6 ARC and now 22 ARC are going to take over the dual use gas/bolt medium cartridge market. The versatility of the .441 bolt face cartridges and the large number of commercial vendors making parts and ammo for this makes it more attractive in my mind.
Cartridge availability/parts availability definitely plays a major role: one I think folks tend to glass over in excitement for the next "new thing". Thank you for watching, and well put.
Personally, I think it’s a great idea if a guy is looking to go with a 6mm round and wants the extra mag capacity and reliability factor. I’m not a 6mm guy though. I’d rather see this necked down to shoot all of the various .22 cal bullets that are available. It would easily outperform the 6mm ballistically as well with the 80 - 90 grain heavies… just like the 22 ARC is doing to the 6mm ARC. From what I understand, the main reason that BC Precision Ballistics went the 6mm route instead of .22 Cal was because 6mm is the smallest round that the Military puts a payload in.
What's the barrel life on those 22 ARC and 22 Creed though? 6mm is great because it has better bc and more energy than comparable 22 bullets and also better life.
Unfortunately until 6mm max is on my local ffl’s shelves, The 6.5 Grendel is still my hunting go to. Seems like a sound cartridge, but let’s see how it pans out logistically.
@@calebwhiteknives agreed. They need to standardize on a load that works well out of sbrs too. Everyone now thinks they have to have a 600yd capable 11.5, lol.
Where the 6mm MAX excels is feeding reliability and magazine reliability. 6mm ARC does not stand a chance to surpass the 556 for militar full-auto applications, but the 6mm MAX might. Additionally, in full-auto temperatures climb quickly and thin-walled bolts will surely fail. I think the 6mm MAX or something very much like it should become the military standard, displacing the 556. 6mm ARC will have a place for a long time for accuracy at distance, but could never serve as an infantry standard cartridge, because of the thin-wall bolt, feeding issues with the abrupt shoulder and magazine reliability exceeding 20 rnd…
Agreed. I as well do not even look into swapping stuff because the latest and greatest whiz bang 3000. I ran the numbers of known Velocity of 87G VLD 16" 6MAX which is roughly 2700 FPS . At 600Y it will have 1730FPS and 580 Ft pounds of energy. 16" 6ARC Using 106G TAP at 2540 FPS will have 1730FPS and 700 Ft pounds of energy at 600Y.. The aged all question what is better . Faster velocity with lower BC Bullets or Slower Velocity with Higher BC Bullets.. 6MAX is definitely very interesting and SOLGW definitely knows how to build quality rigs . I wish the best in their 6MAX RELEASE but I'm gonna stick with my 16" 6ARC . I have not ran into bunch of issues with my 6ARC. Mine has ran extremely well and I've been super happy with .
Same here; the 6ARC is doing all I could ever ask of it. SOLGW definitely does top-tier guns, but caliber swapping gets old after a while. Especially considering the 'niche' is already filled with a completely viable, reliable, and serviceable cartridge.
@@AdvancedTennisFoundation-ph9zo 6arc had just came out when I got into it . I had upper months before I could even get ammo . Yes you are correct 6ARC did have rocky start and most barrels would have 1 flier when shooting 5 shot group and mag issues. I've always used CPD 20rnd Mags and never had any feeding issues . Most of that shit has been resolved and super viable option now
It's an exciting idea. I think with SAAMI and more brass options I would honestly try it out. I've held out on six ARC for a couple years but this may be it for me. If!
I’m glad I jumped on it when I did(6ARC). I’ve converted 90% of my rifles to it; and don’t regret it. I’d be willing to try the Max…if the ARC wasn’t a thing.
@@calebwhiteknives it's cool to hear you say it that way. Idk I still like the idea of 6 arc but honestly I'll be seeing what happens with max first. I've got a new to me DD s2w barrel that's really got me loving heavy 5.56 at the moment.
I wanted to jump on the 6mm ARC train a while ago, but I get the feeling while Spec Ops units might go for it, big military will never go to a derivative of a Russian cartridge. If, big if, they wanted to upgrade their M4s for relatively cheap, this would make more sense politically. I think 6ARC is better at the longest ranges, but not sure if the issues I've heard with bolts breaking every 3k to 5k rounds is worth it. Plus, I've been hit and miss on Grendel magazines. Hopefully the 350 Legend mags are better. 6 Max seems like a better Battle cartridge, while 6 Arc might be better in bolt guns? Arc has the head start, though. I'm personally leaning towards 6 Max for now.
All fair points. Although I haven’t personally experienced bolt problems yet. I do have one or two magazines which are finicky, but they were also cheap. 😆
Great video and very subjective. I don’t think we should be comparing the 6 arc and the 6 max to each other, I think we should be comparing them to what they intend to replace. The 6mm arc (and 6.5 Grendel) has the closest performance to larger rifle cartridges like .308 and 6.5 creedmore while still being able to fit in the small frame of an ar-15. I see the 6mm max as the next generation of 5.56. As you highlighted in your video, it seems well suited as a varmint round being able to snatch small game and even deer. As .223 was is what 6mm max aims to surpass. All in all, both are great rounds with specific use cases.
Nahhh…my next build and possibly go-to gun will be the max. Just shoot bigger targets twice. Lighter platform with reliable bolt. What more do you need?
I don't mind the thought of making a 6Max, but chasing down ammo and components, even as a reloader, for such a niche' cartridge just isn't worth it to me.
Nitrocellulose shortage I think is u fortunately going to greatly delay the scaling up of 6mm MAX. I’m only interested in it with the heavy side (105gr) of bullets over 6mm ARC. But time will tell if I go down the hole of another caliber/replace my 6mm ARC. I did just recently realize in a match (only 100 rounds) how dirty 6mm ARC runs.
It might be good for varmints however…… I think the 22 arc would be a better choice. The velocities are similar for bullet weight and 22cal bullets are cheaper.
I started with the Hornady gas load for their 108s as a reference point; but since I ended up using a powder they didn’t list I had to wing it largely. I bought a few cases of the 107s and started incremental work ups. Shooters World Match and CFE223 gave the best results in Hornady brass. I have some Vihtavouri powders I’m gonna try this fall alongside LeverRevolution in Starline brass.
I got my 6mm max dies an brass today... i did a water capacity test.. i got 33.9 on two cases an tried a 223 case an got 30.5 an lc 556 was 31.1 an 31.5... maybe i did it wrong 🤔
I've had these conversations before with neither myself nor others truly winning either side. without wildcats we wouldn't better cartridges and ammo. Case in point without the valkerie would we have heavy per caliber .223rem/5.56 probably not. but we found out the .223 is actually more capable. As for the 6mm why don't factory load for .243 go higher? That's what I want to know! I've seen data for a 120gr extremely heavy load for .243 win. If hand loader can do it I see no reason it can't become a factory round both for competion and for hunting. I know nebraska won't like hunt with .243 winchester. but their stated standard is the 100gr bullet which claws at the door of being enough gun by there standards. So why not take a .243 win or 6mm rem cartridge and leave the arena temporarily surely 115 gr to 120gr bullet would get there!!! I mean sure the rounds might be slightly slower but neither gun is a slouch to start with and gosh the standard is so close in energy I'm not sure a superformance or better powder can't safely cross the threshold. Why not?
It’s a fair point. The .243 has always been capable of way more than it was utilized: the main limiting factors overwhelmingly being factory twist rate offerings, and SAAMI spec being built around that dimensionally, along with ‘standard’ light bullet selection in load offerings. I feel like Hornady 6mm Creed is the best attempt to modernize, and make more efficient the .243, while also standardizing heavy-for-caliber projectiles within the SAAMI from the ground up.
The big difference is this. The 6 ARC is SAAMI approved. The 6 MAX is a wildcat. Only one source to purchase ammo from. Not going to find ammo for it on the shelf. The local Farm and Fleet store that sells ammo has had 6 ARC on the shelf.
Similar; but slower…and still not capable of high-efficiency bullets like 107/109s at usable velocity. Also, no ammo availability outside a very niche, boutique manufacturer - it’s not industry sustainable unless there’s ammo on the shelves. That could change in time, but as with most wildcats, it’s unlikely.
Ahem... The 6 Max uses a 5.56 boltface you are only talking @ 50' fps. The 6 MAX with 103gr. ELD-X bullets chrono's at 2610fps... VS... the 6 ARC with 108 ELD-M checks in at 2535fps. Yeah... only punching paper in practice and matches, not hunting with it... could, but why? Just like another 6... really... yep. With matches in mind... we'll see how long we, and others... use it for the specific edge it provides. Have a good one. Respectfully, Seth
I would go with the 6max All day!!! The short barrel velocities are impressive!!! Slap a can on it with a thermal an Give me some brass.... The ultimate yote stopper!! Or i will just stick with the OG 6x45....
It’d get it done at short ranges, certainly. At this point in the state of ammo/component availability I’d highly suggest anyone with a wildcat cartridge like the 6Max stack it as deep as you can. Because you probably won’t see much of it for a few years after next election.
@@calebwhiteknives 58 grain vmax going 3160 from a 12" barrel an im sure loading your own you could hit 3200 fps... from a predator hunting standpoint this is 💥... and yeah I feel things could get pretty dicey in a year or so...
Not a valid one based on experience. It’s been a niche cartridge for a while for benchrest, etc., I believe (?). To me, I have very little interest in a cartridge not mainstreamed with at least some factory support. Especially in a day and age when ammo pipelines are already so thin and components are increasingly hard to come by.
Considering what you are claiming about your round count and exposer to the 6arc, while saying you’ve never seen a bolt break, makes me question your exposer and round count. That’s just my take from the outside looking in.
6arc is superior to 6maxx. geissele getting on the 6 arc train, 6arc is here to stay. 6maxx seems cool but it will not push arc off the shelf but might take the 556 spot. the solution to the 6arc bolt issue and all that is a forged bolt. with time all little issues will be worked out.
@@TheIslandExpat Yeah that was basically a disaster...Federal shot themselves in the foot with that one, and left the market door wide open for something like the 6ARC or the 22ARC to come in and dominate!
I think the 6mm Max vs 6mm Arc argument is missing the point, 6mm Max vs 5.56 is the actual argument. The sooner the industry recognizes this the better chances 6mm Max will have. You get significantly increased power and distance, even with shorter barrels, while maintaining 5.56 magazine capacity and bolt strength. It is targeting the hard use, regular soldier in combat use case rather than the DMR use case. It is an enhancement for the Mk18, M4 and Mk12 like guns brining them closer to the 308 performance realm while maintaining the smaller size and weight of the 5.56 guns. 6mm Max is willing to sacrifice the longer slipperier bullets that 6mm Arc can use to maintain magazine capacity and hard use durability. You are correct with your assessment regarding factory loaded ammo. If 6mm Max can have ammo available with costs similar to the mk262 style rounds it will have a good chance of succeeding.
Well put, and completely valid comparison/context of us. I could easily get on board with it, assuming more availability.
You are 100% correct sir!!! And how id use it
Spot on assessment.
I agree
That's the best response anyone could've made with your assessment!
The pink elephant in the room is the 6mm ARC is a Hornady cartridge that Hornady is pushing and supporting. I have a 6 ARC with a 20" Satern barrel and a no frills BCG. I'm using duramags and I have never had a failure of any type. It will boringly print under an inch at 100 with Hornady ELD-X 103gr. Every time I go to a store that has that ammo, I buy a couple of boxes. I'm not likely to change to the 6 MAX.
The 6 MAX sounds pretty cool also, but time will tell if it will catch on and excel. There are so many new cartridges coming out they just can't all make it.
I bought a 6.8 Western even though I have a 7mm Rem Mag. After owning the 6.8 for a short while, I determined for my particular uses it was no better than the 7 Mag. I still have the 7 Mag. The 6.8 went down the trail.
Truth! When something on the market is working really well, and is available, there’s very little need to chase the next fad. Occasionally something comes along, like the 6ARC, which truly is an innovation that fills a void. But then a dozen other niches come along trying to reinvent the same wheel. The 6ARC is everything the 224Valkryie could have been, and the 6Max may never get to be.
I think because of the bolt, mags and less recoil all add up to a winning combo.
It will catch on.
I think your right. Finding a foothold mainstream…not the easiest thing to do. But, it has been done before!
It's already an awesome cartridge.
it won't already been tried as the 6mm Hagar...which is "basicly" the same thing.... cant get longer bullets out far enough in an AR and the issue with 6.5 bolt faces HAS LONG been fixed/prooven false if pressures are kept correct. Bolts last 10K rounds
@@christopherbenfield7848 That about sums it up...
I like how Bill Wilson built the 300 HMM'R. Take any "standard" AR-15, swap the barrel and maybe the gas tube, and with 300 AAC mags, you're good to go. Same thing with this 6mm Max, with 350 Legend mags.
Love my 300 ham'r 18" I might switch my 8" 300blk tob11.3 Ham'r. I have a 22" 22arc, 20" and a 24" 6 arc for farther shots.
Up close the Ham'r would be devastating
What no one seems to realize is that NOW you can take all the classic 5.56 rifles that are good to 400 to 600 meters and now ream/replace the barrel only and have NEAR 6 ARC performance. Think Steyr AUG in 6 MAX!!! Europeans love 6mm for best overall performance for hunting and target shooting (and war). US military only has to buy barrels now and everyone has a 1000 meter gun!!!
It could have some appeal. As soon as an actual ammo manufacturer(s) get on board to crank out a few hundred-thousand rounds, and barrel manufacturers start making standardized, SAAMI-Spec barrels…I’ll give it a shot. Even as someone who reloads almost everything I shoot, this one is still a little too fringe; with almost no brass availability in the main stream channels. Once those criteria can be met, it could probably cause a snot-storm of 6mmMax ARs to overtake the market.
6max uses 5.56 mags, bolt. So a guy doesn't have to buy more stuff to use their rifle after a barrel swap. More case capacity and slightly less recoil. Gas gun 20 inch barrel. 58gr Vmax @ 3520fps. 90gr ELD-X @ 2825fps. 85gr soft point @ 3000fps. I'm gonna give it a whirl. 💥🇺🇲
@@thunder_mountain_muleysif I stand corrected in order to make the conversion, you need two components: the 6mm max barrel, and dura mags.
Who is reaming / re boring 556 to 6mm?
@@sethperry1323 No one I can think of...not in a sane world at least.
The Arc is great for bolt guns where you can get longer bullets and still make oal.
The Max is better for gas guns where you want thin and reliably feeding cases which allow for proper bolts.
And in the end, both will stay niche wildcat cartridges that are way to expensive for magdumping into trash.
I can’t see the 6ARC really ever being classified as a niche cartridge given its use and servicing by Hornady; but I get your point. It could be pigeonholed if no other manufacturers ever get on board with it.
The arc is a great cartridge, it was designed to stretch the legs of a small frame AR. Where it really shines is in a bolt action where you can SAFELY ratchet up the pressure to about 62k psi. The thinned out ar bolt face won't take the pounding at that pressure very long. The Max has bolt longevity on its side, even if you push the pressure. My opinion on the Max is that, an option. All that being said, I have a bolt and gas gun in 6arc. If the Max becomes mainstream, my gas gun would get a makeover.
It’s more of a combat round to take the place of 5.56, and an upgrade to 5.56! SOLGW is making the rifle and supporting it. I love it, but I am not a competition shooter. This an excellent combat round. Works for DMR also. It is a beautiful round, but I don’t think it was ever made/designed for competition. The guy that engineered it said it was to give war fighters more power, lethality, reliability, and range than the 5.56. It was never designed to compete with the other cartridges in competition.
It certainly does that, and I can see it as a major upgrade for a gunfight.
You can use 105s in the Max quite easily and with more common powders. Methinks in many ways, the max might end up being slightly more practical over time.
Had it come out first, I doubt we’d ever have seen the ARC. However, the ARC does have some significant advantages in bullet selection and speeds. That being the case…we’ll see how it shakes out. Starline is finally on board making brass for the ARC, so that’s a plus in the ‘win’ column.
@@calebwhiteknives I still feel the arc would have crushed it. 2/3 of any bullet over 100 grains will be in the case. I’m not hating on light bullets but high bc is trending now and the arc fits the bill. Meanwhile, the company pushing the arc has a huge fan base. I have nothing against the 6 max but if I was going to invest in a niche ar cartridge it would be the 300 hammr.’
The 6 max is a great design but I think the downside for a military cartridge or high round count weapon would be the straight walled case. The dirtier the chamber combined with thermal expansion the more chances the case could get stuck in the chamber vs the slight taper of a traditional cartridge.
The ogive on the really sleek bullets (105s+) could be problematic with the seating depth as well; falling below the case rebate.
They have been testing heavier bullets. Right now it looks like 2600 fps with 105's and 18" barrel. 2670 fps with 103's in an 18" barrel.
I could definitely get behind that math.
@calebwhiteknives the ARC is tough to go against though since you have Hornady behind it. At least for non-reloaders. I'm wavering between the 2 at the moment.
@@MJDGator Ballistic juice aside; yeah, having the backing and experience of a company like Hornady will ensure the 6ARC sticks around for a long while. Also, doesn't hurt there is a military contract for it...usually means it's got staying power.
@@MJDGator That's the issue for me. I see the appeal of the MAX but will it survive/thrive? It might but I wouldn't bet on it. How many shops are going to be chambering barrels? How is brass availability going to look?
Have you seen a cutout of how deep any bullet over 75 grains goes into the case? I have and it’s eye opening.
Seeing BC is now using SOLGW for a manufacturer, and they're now showing load data for 103 ELDX and 105BTHP, i think most of your criticisms are addressed. What I want to see done is a chamber reamer released so barrels can be spun up easier.
That would be another check in the ‘pro’ category. The more different parts of the package become accessible, the easier it’ll be to get on board with this one. I’m curious to see what sort of velocities the 103 is getting. Could make for a very potent, small-frame, deer hunting rig.
6 max is not a 6 arc competitor. It's a way to make a regular 300$ AR a 1000 yards gun with just a barrel swap
My largest interest in considering 6mm Max is the case geometry leading to better feeding reliability in a gas gun. I’ve dabbled in 6.5 Grendel for several years and I have never been impressed with the reliability of any magazines with a capacity of more than 10 rounds.
It does get a little dicey over 15 rounds with the Grendel. The Elander mags seem to work fairly well for the ARC in 24 rounders.
I like it for a tactical application. The point about bolt you made and the straight magazines. Also I like that I can shoot 55 grain at 3300 ft per second because I want to be able to punch through body armor and have even lower recoil for up close combat follow up shots. Yes i know 6arc shoots 55 grain too but going into battle with a thicker boltface makes more sense to me. I watched mr. mike at solgw shooting a 10.5 inch woth 55grains traveling over 3100 ft im pretty sure. Very nice to have say a 10.5 inch to walk around with and an 18 inch upper in the pack for.long shots and just switch to 103 grain elds
All good points. Even if you jumped up to a 70-90 grain FMJ in 6mm, it would still give some really good speed, and a bit more 'punch' for a battle/CQB cartridge.
To me 6max makes way more sense as a replacement for 5.56 then the 6.8 that Sig building for the military. The logistics makes way more sense then bringing in a whole new rifle, ammo and sacrificing the amount of ammo you can carry while dragging around a much heavier rifle.
Yeah I don’t see the Sig or the 6.8 lasting much longer than the next new war cycle. 😆
Ive dealt with them at bc precision ballistics. Great guys very professional
I always respect folks trying to level-up the AR game and doing new stuff! The independent craftsmen can pull out some magic sometimes.
The compatibility advantage doesn't end with the .378 rim diameter, Winchester did their Cosine(30) check when rebating the 350 legend, and it's narrow enough for mags to stack perfectly through a standard magwell provided the stiffening ribs up the mag body are shallower, which isn't a problem in steel. The 20's are already out and they're the same width as standard, just longer. 30s are on the way.
I hope that a family of cartridges based on the 350legend succeeds, it could even revive the quarter-bore. It'll drive those 117's I bet.
Another point in the ‘pros’ category!
Now the 250 max I can get behind.
As a person who owns neither, I would choose 6mm Max. It appears to be functionally superior and more durable. Its using a case that's more akin to 5.56, while the ARC is using an AK-47 derivative case. 6mm ARC has the advantage of using longer bullets, but I think their use-case is low-frequency. Even so, they have loaded 105 bthps in the 6mm Max without issue. Add in magazine, temperature sensitive propellants, and gas system problems, the Max seems like its the smarter option for an AR-15.
…if you can find ammo. Another major manufacturer or two picks up the cartridge; yeah it’ll be a great option.
@@calebwhiteknives it's a reloader's cartridge for sure. Just get me brass and I'm good to go. If I didn't reload, I wouldn't touch either cartridge.
@@DominicZelenak Yup, that makes it much more feasible. For anyone not reloading...non-starter.
Well said about SAAMI approved cartridge 6 ARC vs Wildcat, any type .243 cal. cartridge. Unless multiple commercial ammo makers adopt and manufacture the ammo, then it is a niche cartridge. Hornady hit a homerun, with the ARC but sadly could not keep up with the brass supply.
Yeah that’s been a frustration; but Starline is finally on board to make some 6mm ARC brass! 🤩
@@calebwhiteknives Same problem though 3 months backorder is not uncommon. My bias is hunting and not long range target shooting. The 6-ARC really shines in the 75-90 grain hunting bullet class whereby muzzle velocity exceeds 3,000 fps with devastating on game terminal performance. Hornady has yet to load the lighter grain hunting bullets to help broaden the market of this cartridge. Instead, they developed the 22 ARC to fill that void and further exacerbate the future availability of the ARC class brass.
@@davestrohmeyer-saddleupsho8009 yeah they just cant seem to help themselves. would have been helpful for them to start making a varmint load for the 6ARC, and focus on feeding the market.
Fantastic video. Really concise analysis, No offense to BC Precision, but unless/until they get a major ammo manufacturer to support this, I think it will just be a quasi-commercial/wildcat cartridge. It's a interesting idea, but I think the .441 bolt face Grendel, 6 ARC and now 22 ARC are going to take over the dual use gas/bolt medium cartridge market. The versatility of the .441 bolt face cartridges and the large number of commercial vendors making parts and ammo for this makes it more attractive in my mind.
Cartridge availability/parts availability definitely plays a major role: one I think folks tend to glass over in excitement for the next "new thing". Thank you for watching, and well put.
Personally, I think it’s a great idea if a guy is looking to go with a 6mm round and wants the extra mag capacity and reliability factor. I’m not a 6mm guy though. I’d rather see this necked down to shoot all of the various .22 cal bullets that are available. It would easily outperform the 6mm ballistically as well with the 80 - 90 grain heavies… just like the 22 ARC is doing to the 6mm ARC. From what I understand, the main reason that BC Precision Ballistics went the 6mm route instead of .22 Cal was because 6mm is the smallest round that the Military puts a payload in.
What's the barrel life on those 22 ARC and 22 Creed though? 6mm is great because it has better bc and more energy than comparable 22 bullets and also better life.
Unfortunately until 6mm max is on my local ffl’s shelves, The 6.5 Grendel is still my hunting go to. Seems like a sound cartridge, but let’s see how it pans out logistically.
Yup
They have 107 s for the MAX now
Know what kind of velocity they’re getting out of an average size barrel(18”)?
Great overview of the differences in the 2. I agree, the 6max is a speed queen with a place, its just not a lrp cartridge.
Definitely a viable replacement for the 556 though; would make a fantastic battle round.
@@calebwhiteknives agreed. They need to standardize on a load that works well out of sbrs too. Everyone now thinks they have to have a 600yd capable 11.5, lol.
Where the 6mm MAX excels is feeding reliability and magazine reliability. 6mm ARC does not stand a chance to surpass the 556 for militar full-auto applications, but the 6mm MAX might. Additionally, in full-auto temperatures climb quickly and thin-walled bolts will surely fail.
I think the 6mm MAX or something very much like it should become the military standard, displacing the 556.
6mm ARC will have a place for a long time for accuracy at distance, but could never serve as an infantry standard cartridge, because of the thin-wall bolt, feeding issues with the abrupt shoulder and magazine reliability exceeding 20 rnd…
Agreed.
I as well do not even look into swapping stuff because the latest and greatest whiz bang 3000.
I ran the numbers of known Velocity of 87G VLD 16" 6MAX which is roughly 2700 FPS . At 600Y it will have 1730FPS and 580 Ft pounds of energy.
16" 6ARC Using 106G TAP at 2540 FPS will have 1730FPS and 700 Ft pounds of energy at 600Y..
The aged all question what is better . Faster velocity with lower BC Bullets or Slower Velocity with Higher BC Bullets..
6MAX is definitely very interesting and SOLGW definitely knows how to build quality rigs . I wish the best in their 6MAX RELEASE but I'm gonna stick with my 16" 6ARC . I have not ran into bunch of issues with my 6ARC. Mine has ran extremely well and I've been super happy with .
Same here; the 6ARC is doing all I could ever ask of it. SOLGW definitely does top-tier guns, but caliber swapping gets old after a while. Especially considering the 'niche' is already filled with a completely viable, reliable, and serviceable cartridge.
so 6 arc was not the latest and greatest when you went with it?
@@AdvancedTennisFoundation-ph9zo 6arc had just came out when I got into it . I had upper months before I could even get ammo .
Yes you are correct 6ARC did have rocky start and most barrels would have 1 flier when shooting 5 shot group and mag issues. I've always used CPD 20rnd Mags and never had any feeding issues .
Most of that shit has been resolved and super viable option now
It's an exciting idea. I think with SAAMI and more brass options I would honestly try it out. I've held out on six ARC for a couple years but this may be it for me. If!
I’m glad I jumped on it when I did(6ARC). I’ve converted 90% of my rifles to it; and don’t regret it. I’d be willing to try the Max…if the ARC wasn’t a thing.
@@calebwhiteknives it's cool to hear you say it that way. Idk I still like the idea of 6 arc but honestly I'll be seeing what happens with max first. I've got a new to me DD s2w barrel that's really got me loving heavy 5.56 at the moment.
I wanted to jump on the 6mm ARC train a while ago, but I get the feeling while Spec Ops units might go for it, big military will never go to a derivative of a Russian cartridge.
If, big if, they wanted to upgrade their M4s for relatively cheap, this would make more sense politically.
I think 6ARC is better at the longest ranges, but not sure if the issues I've heard with bolts breaking every 3k to 5k rounds is worth it. Plus, I've been hit and miss on Grendel magazines. Hopefully the 350 Legend mags are better. 6 Max seems like a better Battle cartridge, while 6 Arc might be better in bolt guns? Arc has the head start, though. I'm personally leaning towards 6 Max for now.
All fair points. Although I haven’t personally experienced bolt problems yet. I do have one or two magazines which are finicky, but they were also cheap. 😆
Great video and very subjective. I don’t think we should be comparing the 6 arc and the 6 max to each other, I think we should be comparing them to what they intend to replace. The 6mm arc (and 6.5 Grendel) has the closest performance to larger rifle cartridges like .308 and 6.5 creedmore while still being able to fit in the small frame of an ar-15. I see the 6mm max as the next generation of 5.56. As you highlighted in your video, it seems well suited as a varmint round being able to snatch small game and even deer. As .223 was is what 6mm max aims to surpass. All in all, both are great rounds with specific use cases.
Indeed! Context of use has a lot to play here. Either way; both are a major upgrade to the capability of an AR15.
Nahhh…my next build and possibly go-to gun will be the max. Just shoot bigger targets twice. Lighter platform with reliable bolt. What more do you need?
I don't mind the thought of making a 6Max, but chasing down ammo and components, even as a reloader, for such a niche' cartridge just isn't worth it to me.
Nitrocellulose shortage I think is u fortunately going to greatly delay the scaling up of 6mm MAX. I’m only interested in it with the heavy side (105gr) of bullets over 6mm ARC. But time will tell if I go down the hole of another caliber/replace my 6mm ARC. I did just recently realize in a match (only 100 rounds) how dirty 6mm ARC runs.
Worst case scenario, I keep my 6 arc bolt guns for hunting and buy a 6 max for AR fun. Win Win!
@@michaelcervantez3570 wouldn’t be a bad option
It might be good for varmints however…… I think the 22 arc would be a better choice. The velocities are similar for bullet weight and 22cal bullets are cheaper.
Yup. Agreed.
@calebwhiteknives what load data/manual did you use for you Sierra 107 load? Thanks.
I started with the Hornady gas load for their 108s as a reference point; but since I ended up using a powder they didn’t list I had to wing it largely. I bought a few cases of the 107s and started incremental work ups. Shooters World Match and CFE223 gave the best results in Hornady brass. I have some Vihtavouri powders I’m gonna try this fall alongside LeverRevolution in Starline brass.
This was really good Imo.
Thank you!
I got my 6mm max dies an brass today... i did a water capacity test.. i got 33.9 on two cases an tried a 223 case an got 30.5 an lc 556 was 31.1 an 31.5... maybe i did it wrong 🤔
😳
How will be comper 6mm MAX vs 6mm WOA?
6mm WOA? I’m not familiar.
@@calebwhiteknives It is 6.8 SPC neck down to 6mm
I've had these conversations before with neither myself nor others truly winning either side. without wildcats we wouldn't better cartridges and ammo. Case in point without the valkerie would we have heavy per caliber .223rem/5.56 probably not. but we found out the .223 is actually more capable. As for the 6mm why don't factory load for .243 go higher? That's what I want to know! I've seen data for a 120gr extremely heavy load for .243 win. If hand loader can do it I see no reason it can't become a factory round both for competion and for hunting. I know nebraska won't like hunt with .243 winchester. but their stated standard is the 100gr bullet which claws at the door of being enough gun by there standards. So why not take a .243 win or 6mm rem cartridge and leave the arena temporarily surely 115 gr to 120gr bullet would get there!!! I mean sure the rounds might be slightly slower but neither gun is a slouch to start with and gosh the standard is so close in energy I'm not sure a superformance or better powder can't safely cross the threshold. Why not?
It’s a fair point. The .243 has always been capable of way more than it was utilized: the main limiting factors overwhelmingly being factory twist rate offerings, and SAAMI spec being built around that dimensionally, along with ‘standard’ light bullet selection in load offerings. I feel like Hornady 6mm Creed is the best attempt to modernize, and make more efficient the .243, while also standardizing heavy-for-caliber projectiles within the SAAMI from the ground up.
Are those polishing belts hanging up in the back?
Some are yes; polishing and grinding, predominantly.
Nice! They look like 3 1/2 in p320 & maybe some 600 lol.
I used to work as a crankshaft polisher for about 6yrs. Those look all to familiar
The big difference is this. The 6 ARC is SAAMI approved. The 6 MAX is a wildcat. Only one source to purchase ammo from. Not going to find ammo for it on the shelf. The local Farm and Fleet store that sells ammo has had 6 ARC on the shelf.
Yup.
We def should wait for saami
@@tedarcher9120 agreed
105 grains in 6 max are very similar to 6 arc. Stronger bolt and can do full auto, 6 max is a better cartridge than 6 arc.
Similar; but slower…and still not capable of high-efficiency bullets like 107/109s at usable velocity. Also, no ammo availability outside a very niche, boutique manufacturer - it’s not industry sustainable unless there’s ammo on the shelves. That could change in time, but as with most wildcats, it’s unlikely.
I think ill stick with 6.5 CM for now lol.
Ahem... The 6 Max uses a 5.56 boltface you are only talking @ 50' fps. The 6 MAX with 103gr. ELD-X bullets chrono's at 2610fps... VS... the 6 ARC with 108 ELD-M checks in at 2535fps. Yeah... only punching paper in practice and matches, not hunting with it... could, but why? Just like another 6... really... yep. With matches in mind... we'll see how long we, and others... use it for the specific edge it provides. Have a good one. Respectfully, Seth
If 6mm Max is ever properly supported I'll buy some barrels and play with it.
same
I would go with the 6max All day!!! The short barrel velocities are impressive!!! Slap a can on it with a thermal an Give me some brass.... The ultimate yote stopper!! Or i will just stick with the OG 6x45....
It’d get it done at short ranges, certainly. At this point in the state of ammo/component availability I’d highly suggest anyone with a wildcat cartridge like the 6Max stack it as deep as you can. Because you probably won’t see much of it for a few years after next election.
@@calebwhiteknives 58 grain vmax going 3160 from a 12" barrel an im sure loading your own you could hit 3200 fps... from a predator hunting standpoint this is 💥... and yeah I feel things could get pretty dicey in a year or so...
@@sethperry1323 No doubt that would be some potent varmint medicine. Yeah, this is gonna be an interesting time in the history books, lol.
Any opinions on 6x45?
Not a valid one based on experience. It’s been a niche cartridge for a while for benchrest, etc., I believe (?). To me, I have very little interest in a cartridge not mainstreamed with at least some factory support. Especially in a day and age when ammo pipelines are already so thin and components are increasingly hard to come by.
Considering what you are claiming about your round count and exposer to the 6arc, while saying you’ve never seen a bolt break, makes me question your exposer and round count. That’s just my take from the outside looking in.
An experience can’t be trumped by outside theories! 🫡
6arc is superior to 6maxx. geissele getting on the 6 arc train, 6arc is here to stay. 6maxx seems cool but it will not push arc off the shelf but might take the 556 spot. the solution to the 6arc bolt issue and all that is a forged bolt. with time all little issues will be worked out.
Yup. Boom.
Sammi speced & Sons of Liberty has barrels.
There are a lot of sammi spec'd obscure cartridges out there....with no factory/supplier support.
6 MAX will probably have the same fate as the 260 Rem.
…and the 224 Valkyrie 😆
@@calebwhiteknives Actually...the 224 will probably go down as one of the worst things ever sold as good to the American Shooter.
@@TheIslandExpat Yeah that was basically a disaster...Federal shot themselves in the foot with that one, and left the market door wide open for something like the 6ARC or the 22ARC to come in and dominate!
Folks think out loud too much.
Especially in the comments…
jams with the arc sucks
I haven’t had this problem in the rifles I’ve tested, except with one very specific magazine…which I tossed after recognizing a pattern.
6arc is nothing but magazine feeding issues, busted bolts, extractors & the stress that comes with all that. 6max just run & gun