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In this video, you mentioned “the Game of Thrones of Tywin Lannister”, and in your video on “The Children” episode, it was discussed how important of a character he was to the story. I would love to see a video breaking down his importance to the plot, and the lessons we can take from his character in the modern world.
you had me up till you started talking about 'democracy'...that's three men and a girl deciding who gets raped...gang rape is always wrong...ALWAYS...power will always corrupt...no one knows what is best for anyone and if you think YOU do? you are the problem...i don't get to tell you how to live and you don't get to tell me how to live and as long as we aren't hurting each other and respect that each other has a right to exist? conflict resolved...'climate change' or whatever you want to call this new scare tactic that's been going on for over a hundred years (it's cooling it's heating we're all gonna die!) is not a thing, but i still eat vegan and live zero waste because i'm more interested in doing the least amount of harm with my time here...your summation of 'a remarkable group of people coming together on the same page' ? sounds like every dictator and tyrant EVER...like dany you THINK you know what's good so you get to decide for everyone...i just want to leave you alone and be left THE FUCK alone...so you just gonna kill the people like me who aren't on your page? i'm pro gun and pro life and pro gay in addition to being generally conservative (though i want to move towards anarchy..NO RULERS)...and only one side is trying to silence me....only ONE side calls me nazi...my takeaway was there is NO legitimate form of government, no one can be trusted to rule, and no one SHOULD rule over others...the ending of game of thrones sucked because the writers got tired of doing it and ran out of source material (they 'return of the jedi'd' it) and the marvel writers had a vision and a plan and source material and aren't tired of doing it
no, these two sibling duos are mirror images, not same, opposite rather. cersei + jaime : doom for the 7 kingdoms, including their own. loki + thor on the other hand, would be a very strong protection to 9 realms. both politics, technology (magic to them) and militarywise. just like the old odin and queen frigga (loki s teacher) was. if they stop bickering that is. (we are not talking about out of universe or older than universe forces of course, because we didnt put c+j couple against night king alone)
I just thought that when they compared the Lannisters to Odinsons and I was like...are you sure you wanna go there, narrator? 😬 I don’t ship shame but okay, you’re the narrator, not me! Lmao!
@@ismata3274 I do completely agree, I was just making a joke 😄 In truth I hadn't thought of comparing GoT to the MCU, but they made some very nice points here
It's so much more complex. Cersei was never a villain, she's a scared, cursed woman restricted by prophecies, her family and her gender. The thing is she was so too much far gone and have been trough too much for redemption.
shanouboubou While Cersei is certainly a victim of a lot of things, especially the sexism of her culture, it’s shown that she’s been cruel and manipulative since childhood. She abused Tyrion since he was born, pushed her best friend Melara down a well, and regularly manipulated Jaime’s feelings for her for selfish gain. There are some actions she has sympathetic reasons to do, such as killing Robert, but others that are completely inexcusable, like torturing the Blue Bard for literally no reason.
@@shanouboubou you make it sound like victims can't be the villain. That's often how one ends up on the path to being a villain. But she was always a terrible person.
While watching the finale, it really struck me how Daenerys had become Endgame Thanos. She couldn't create the new world while those that remembered the old one lived, so she planned to destroy everything for the sake of a new dawn, under her. A grateful world. But the Killmonger parallel rings very true as well, connecting to the hurt she always carried with her, shaping her and leading her to all that destruction. She could never have been a good ruler, for the same reasons as Erik, as much as it pains me to say it. Those that don't desperately want the power and the position are more suited to holding them. ...Which is why I'm one of those people okay with the impassive Bran as king. (though if this is the Children playing a dirty game, that's awesome too.)
Fun food for thought! Makes sense grrm would have been inspired by comics as he has so many different characters and complex intertwining narratives, but I hadn’t heard him talk about it before!
@@hectortorres4738 The Game of Thrones writers asked for +1 year to make the final season, and HBO gave it them. Season 8s failure is entirely upon the 2 main writers.
Endgame where listening to the crew and taking decisions with everyone. GOT was the work of 2 people who thought knew better. It's easy to see when you watch the actor noticing some blind spot on the story. You know that in the first pilot they did about Games of thrones, the test audience were asking if the two blondes caracter were related. They reshot it again. This is why we hear them explaining everything on screen now. I heard it will be GRRM's ending they show us. I investigate and imagine how this could happen so it would make senses. I think the main things about subverting expectiation's logic is that they didn't dare (or understand) show us the dark side of the Starks. So they decided to show Deanarys evilness without showing us the good. She was always a tyrant but also a liberator. If she did burn the red keep with collateral damage the decision to kill her would be a real dilemna. If by destroying the red keep she kill all the court, she kill babies, and like she did killing the soldier that surrender and she could even have killed by collateral damage Missandei. Killing Missandei and denying her responsability would be in her caracter arcs: looking away when she is responsible for horror. Even killing Cersei could have more layer if she knew she was pregnant (maybe Sansa would have defend Cersei if she knew about the baby.) Jon being a soldier and a men who knew what it is to follow order would see the horror she did and could still love her. No need to destroy everyone in King Landing to understand that. Arya too could face the horror of her bloodthirst knowing Cersei is pregnant. We could have see Sansa's rebellion against Daenarys be something more. Not just a superficial intuition. We could have that Sansa's leadership may or may not be superficial. (Killing Ramses doesn't heal her from choosing two cruel husband.) We may even have seen Robyn Arryn mad at the Stark for killing his uncle Baelish or when he learned that Sansa lied about her mother death. They could go to war (Robyn Arryn destroying the castle made of snow seem to me like foreshadowind) or they could make an alliance by wedding (and Robyn Arryn being as cruel as Jeoffrey and Ramses) About Bran, did he let everything happen so he can get the crown? Maybe not but people could think if him that way. If he did let the massacre happens to sit on the thrones he is the one who has the more blood of the innocent on his soul (starting from Hodor too folk of kill landing) They could have show us how Tyrion choose him. Maybe Bran went into his past to fuck Tyrion like he did with Hodor. Maybe he see through everyone at the meeting and blackmail them about something hideous they did.
He does what he does to protect and strengthen his family. It's what a lot of characters in GOT do. I would argue that if there is a villain besides the Nightking it would be Littlefinger who knowingly started this great civil war just to create chaos to help him climb to the top.
@@joshmciver4847 I wouldnt assert that. One thing I liked about Endgame is that they made almost all movies worth rewatching, especially redeeming of sorts Ultron and Dark world "Shit" -language Friggas death Tonys failure to protect Earth Losing together Giving Steve a normal life Ending the mission Have Nat have her death be a worthwhile sacrifice redeeming her and Hawkeye (prominent character who broke out in Ultron) after both had murderous lives And a lot of detail go paid back. Tonsberg is the town where the tesseract was hidden behind a snake symbol from an Odin Asgard treasure painting, the same where New Asgard lives Tony plays flicking with Nebula and later flicks Scott to his past self Stephen Strange and Pepper in an iron armor both see a river flood coming in, parallel to Iron man 3 and calling back to the Sorcerer Supreme's saying that you cant beat a river into submission "I wasnt always like this" "yeah me neither" lol Omg canoning Jarvis ? What I like about cpt marvel(movie) is that as a titular character movie it fails, its not a mcu movie in that regard, even tchalla is a better titular character movie than her, but njadaka is a pretty rich black panther though But as one in 22 episode of the MCU it sure is a great rip off/prequel to cap Winter Soldier Starts out as a standard mission with deceiving platoon of your true villains with a protagonist whos not quite from this world or era, trying to adapat to his mission, out to survive and evade manipulation from an undercover plot to extermination of a sizable group of people, with shield, thats been infiltrated, with fury at the core of some of the important action, with one or more people adept in espionage and camouflage, and you know... captain But its also a good prequel plot wise, unicerse wise(objects and stuff) for avengers, and to some little extent thor 1 as its an alien invasion Thor 3 and BPanther are the same movie, basically usurp the throne cuz secret family member, recently dead father, theres a sort of civil war (asgardian zombies) Ok theres no resolution to Hulk/Banner in endgame they essentially killed Hulk and Bruce and nat's relationship lasted till IW with those two brief interactions. Sooo rich in set up. Game of thrones just... you know, kinda forgot that Aegon Targaryen was a biiiig deal. I dont know if its because Martin dropped the ball or D&D badly adapted it but. Heh. Dont consider yourself less smart than anyone, excellence isnt omnipotent. Its easier to draw parallels and see patterns if you hoard enough baggage and educate yourself to deconstruct dissect and observe rather than just see. Thats how detectives operate, actors learn, manipulators improve and everyone should aspire to do.
@Scott Summers rematching ? I was saying redeeming. Because endgame built on the importance of what those 2 movies set up to make them more compelling, and as such relevant to the greater arcs that define the infinity saga
Beautiful video, and I’m so glad I wasn’t the only one who saw Thanos’s fanaticism in Danaerys. I didn’t see Killmonger’s rage, but you’re absolutely right that it’s there.
@Scott Summers i am a fan of good storytelling if it is effective. If it is giving me all ranges of emotions. I am not resisting it just because i hate the fanbase. Season 8 does not give me emotions to care to any characters. They can die and i won't care.
@Scott Summers you are missing a lot of things then. I don't have to enumerate everything and the subtle things. Because you will always find ways to ignore it. Like a stone raised by self-righteous fundamentalist.
The problem for game of thrones was that it became Marvel. The first 4 seasons were so good because they were a slow-burning character driven drama. Like the sopranos, I Claudius and many of the hallmarks of TVs golden age. After season 5 it turned into the kind mass-market popcorn schlock the MCU has been churning out, whilst the MCU itself actually worked to become more thoughtful, interesting and well-written
@Scott Summers bcoz mcu are doing their best, adjusting to adversaries while d and d rushing to end GoT to get hands on star wars. You know how important the finale? It should have lasting impression that we cannot forget and talk about it for years to come. Season 8 doesn't have that. It is empty. Season 8 should be the most important season among previous seasons. Which writers have more passion to the art of good writing? Which writers are merely aiming for more money? I hope you are really using your critical thinking. Don't cloud the obvious with flowery words.
@Scott Summers no matter how you twist the words. It does not ignore the fact that after 2 years, GoT creators made a mediocre finale. I don't know if it is the writing or just being too rushed.
@Scott Summers i don't care if you are happy with GoT. After season 8, all the first 7 seasons were meaningless. After season 8, if you rewatch all the previous seasons, you won't care to any characters because they all ended up meaningless. The conclusion of supposedly a mastetpiece tv show is a mess.
@Scott Summers we are talking the lasting impression of each finale. Your reply is off tangent. Are you an australopithecus afarensis that did not evolve? Upgrage your off tangent brain please. Thank you.
I will tell the main reason one had a satisfying ending and other didn't. MCU writers were so focused on the story detail irrespective of the movie. That helped directors and the actors to stick to a strong foundation no matter where the stream took them. But they were also very much open to the public. After each movie, they exactly knew what the fans wanted.! Kid Spiderman in Ironman2, Cap and Peggy's dance are such few examples. Game of Thrones on the other hand had a wonderful start, something no has ever seen before. That's why it became so popular. And TV shows' fate lies upon the the beginning. But as they went on, its like the writers were in the discussion room and suddenly they had an idea and straight on went to implement it without thinking about the previously mentioned prophecies and foreshadowings.! That might have made their writing easier but they got lost. As soon as fans knew there was going to be something like Avengers: Endgame, they were expecting the answers to all the questions they had for about 10 years.! And much to the fans satisfaction, they were answered with new twists.! But GOT fans have still some questions unanswered (mainly surrounding the Night King, as everyone thought). Also both releasing on the same month raised a lot of comparisons. And due to the above points, Endgame easily won. But still GOT left some memories.!
Maria Moeller Thor, Iron man and captain America all have parallels to Luke in the last jedi. Iron man dying to save the hero’s from a giant army. Thor being unable to move on from his own failure until a mentor figure guides him back to doing what he needs to do. Cap standing off against a massive army alone.
I'm surprised you didn't match the Loki "There are no men like me" with Jaime Lannister saying that when he is talking to Catlyn after being captured by the Starks.
Something I find really interesting is the similarity between Stannis Baratheon and Thanos. You guys kept a very short clip of their faces next to each other but I don't think anything was ever explained. Let me explain. Milesandre told Stannis that he needed to sacrifice a Human life to end up sitting on the Iron Throne (his main focus at the time) so he chose to sacrifice the life of his own daughter Shireen. In Avengers: Infinity War, Thanos had to sacrifice a Human life to get the Soul Stone (his main focus at the time) so he chose to sacrifice the life of his own daughter Gamora. Coincidence? I think not.
That was an incredibly generous interpretation of both franchises. I never would have thought about it. The idea of elites needing to stay in charge in both is rather...troubling.
Johnathon Haney lol! What do you expect from a group of people who admit that while the world moves in, they dint move in, acting as if theyre more special.
It’s really brilliant! Even though I love both stories I never consciously thought about their similarities and differences, nor did it come into my mind to compare their endings..
Spoilers for both Endgame and Game of Thrones broke at around the same time and both caused major freakouts on social media (especially Reddit). Except that the spoilers for Endgame that sounded terrible in a vacuum--Fat Thor?! Black Widow doesn't get a funeral?! Cap just gives up?!--made sense in context once people actually saw the movie. Those Game of Thrones spoilers never got better so there was a growing dread as the season crept on and they were proved more and more accurate.
I love this channel! You take subtext, narrative themes, parallel and mirroring characters and make them available to a larger audience. That is really amazing
@@reculture I'd call it the least biased, most balanced and absolutely the most thoughtful RUclips channel out there. The ability to find unique angles on material we all know is extraordinary.
It was actually season 7 split. They seem to have waited to see if the world would be fed up enough with our leadership to be okay with this ending about “checked power.”
I was waiting for you to do this. I’m surprised it took you so long. I’ve been done with GOT videos, sick of listening to people bitching like little children over the ending. But I gonna watch your video yo!
Part of the difference also has a lot to do with where the bar was set. Marvel never set the expectation of intricacy, complex character, and consequences that GoT did. While D&D definitely dropped the ball, they also had a far greater writing challenge to tackle than the writers of Endgame did. The MCU audience was never going to be as critical of the quality of the writing and character motivations as the GoT audience. Those who did stopped caring or watching years ago.
I don't know, but the GoT finale felt basically the same as the end of Hunger Games Catching Fire to me. Dany ended up continuing the very cycle she was supposed to stop, and Jon Snow Katniss'd her before she could take control.
Don't feel too bad for her. I do think the actress probably was disappointed (like I was) when she died at the end of Season 6. Her character was easily IMO the smartest and most able player of the game, I think she'd have made a better ruler than Dany or Jon or Bran even. But yeah then she dies in basically a terrorist like explosion at the sept of Baelor, but low key if I was the actress seeing how bad the show got in it's final two seasons I may not remain so disappointed. She kind of got to go out just as the show was really beginning to whimper out in terms of quality, whether she knew it at the time or not.
@@FlowerTrollSan It's possible... I think more likely her death happened when it was meant to happen though. It wasn't just a flukey death, it was a major death for not just Margaery but several other main characters. It didn't seem rushed or forced or anything, if she did want to do other things it was probably because she knew at the beginning of the season if not well before about when she'd be free from the bonds of the show. That being said Margaery may very well have been my favorite character, she's definitely my favorite of all the ones who ever WANTED the Throne. She was by far the smartest and she seemed to have a good head on her shoulders where her people were concerned, she wanted their adulation and she's so benevolent it even begins rubbing off a little bit on Joffrey (who begins to learn through her that it's better for the people to love you than to fear/hate you). I am just saying, some people debate exactly where the show lost its way. I personally think quality began going downhill noticeably beginning in Season 5. The last truly decent season, overall, we had was Season 6. Seasons 7 and 8 were an absolute trainwreck.
Glad to be alive and a fan of both stories that I thoroughly enjoyed during the ride, few things are better than a great story. One went out amazingly, the other......... Not so much.
Even if season 8 had better writing, there would still be a lot of fans left disappointed. GoT fans want to see something that they actually do not want, so it's hard to figure out what exactly the majority could "want" and if it's a good idea to give it to them. It's just very hard. Marvel fans on the other hand just want a nice ending. They knew long before that there would be main character deaths in Endgame and they were rather prepared for it. The way it happened was satisfying, Nat sacrificing herself for Clint and the soulstone and Tony literally saving the world. The rest lived happily ever after. The expectations for GoT were just a lot higher and harder to match, so it's no wonder MCU fans were far more happy with the ending than GoT fans.
This is a brilliant video. But a seed they didn't act on Endgame was The Steve Bucky relationship. What about "I will be wilt you till the end of the line"
I feel like that seed played out pretty well in Civil War. Steve and Bucky are not the same people anymore and they need to grow into being their own person without that co-dependency. Steve got the chance to do so, Bucky didn't and I think we'll see that play through further on Bucky's part in the Falcon & Winter Soldier show.
When the release dates for both Endgame and GOT last season were announced, I told my friends that I suspected some sort of connection between both the stories that watching one of it first could make the other predictable. I was right to an extend as both Thanos and Night King wanted to wipe out the memory of everything. May be that is why Night Kings intentions were not very overwhelmingly surprising...
For some reason I was thinking that Bran was going to be equated more to Rhoady, considering...Rohady flies, but also had the same sort of injury occur. But Strange works a LOT better.
In my opinion, the attitude of the writers makes a huge difference. Marcus and Mcfeely are humble and take input from outsiders and actors whereas Bennioff and Weiss are arrogant and overrated. They think they're super clever and that nothing could equal their storytelling abilities. They put subversion over storytelling and character. If they were really clever, they wouldn't have rushed to get to Star Wars. Or better yet, they would have handed it off to competent writers that were passionate about the story. Just my humble opinion.
The difference however is that one had quality writers that cared about the story and didn't rush the ending. The other had writers that were sick of story and rushed the ending because they couldn't wait to move on to their next project, ruining Star Wars.
Some people complain about the 3 hour runtime for the conclusion of 21 movies and 11 years. Some people complain the ending of Game of Thrones should have been much longer and everything was rushed. People will be people.
@From a Bicycle seat Auteur theory is bullshit, at least in terms of exclusively applying to directors. Kevin Feige has proven to be every bit the auteur as a producer.
13:11 The irony here is that a cynical ending would have clearly pleased the viewers and impress them more. The change of tone is what surprised them. And I think the tranquil, calm last episode that showed that the resolution of the plots was not constituted in explosions and violence, but in discussions and compromises, was what surprised and disappointed people the most. That's what taking a meaningful risk looks like.
Explaining tone really helped me understand why the series finale was so weird, the small council scene att the end of GOT is like a sitcom scene at the end of a Marvel movie. I always thought that altruism without strategy was doomed in the GOT universe, so it was really strange seeing characters making dumb altruistic choices yet winning from it.
You guys do such a great analysis. When I first saw the title, I was like "psshhh whatever", but then I saw who posted it and was like "okay, maybe". Lol
@From a Bicycle seat Nope. Love em both. But dont often relate them because of the strikingly different tone, and greater depth GoT has,(used to have) whereas the MCU has relatively surface level points to make in comparison. MCU is very straight forward, GoT is (was) very nuanced. But when you really look at it, like they just did. There are alot of similarities
The only thing I got from the end of GoT is everyone getting caught up in what they think should happen instead of just kicking back and taking it for what it is
Great video. I never noticed the similarities before, other than the Starks saving the day and Jon/Cap. But I think it's because I'm more invested in GoT than the MCU. And while I agree the MCU delivered on their story, I felt the ending was predictable. Moreover, with the exception of Tony, the MCU had a Disney ending (and well, the MCU is owned by Disney). I always felt GoT showed more similarities to today's world. It's not pretty. And as much as I hated the sexism, misogyny, war, etc., unfortunately that evil is still going on today. As a veteran myself I felt GoT portrayed the military better. Yes, they showed the war and glory, but they also showed the shitty side. I felt the MCU Disney-fied it. I also felt GoT's ending would be unpredictable, other than knowing the ending was going to be bittersweet, and that we the fans were either going to love it, or hate it. It's just sad D&D phoned it in these last couple of seasons. I will give it to the MCU/Disney that their writers still cared about the story. HBO wanted full 10-episode seasons and provided an unlimited budget, but D&D turned it down.
@@pablorodriguez9672 yup. That's the reason why GoT's ending didn't land. I feel comparing GoT to MCU isn't fair. The ending is one reason. Moreover, one is for the whole family to enjoy, while the other showed the ugly reality. There's a reason why one will be streamed on Disney, and the other is on HBO. And when Ramsey said, "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention," that pretty much sums up GoT.
Not lazy. It was rushed and they had no choice. There's no way you can cover everything perfectly in just 6 episodes which they had signed for. We got to rmb that GOT was ACTUALLY planned for 7 seasons only, not 8.
@@davidcorrenberg2782 Apparently HBO wanted to go for 10 seasons, but the GOT show writers (D&D) only wanted to do 8 with the last 2 being shorten. Rumors say they had a deal for a Star Wars trilogy do they rushed GOT instead of giving it to someone else to finish.
MCU and GOT are very much about different heroes coming together via different and equally interesting adventures to overcome greater evil. "Star Wars", "Lord of the Rings" and "Harry Potter" are all great, but they are linear stories. They make you relate to a protagonist, but not exactly giving you a feeling that you're a part of a bigger picture with your own role to play. tl;dr You have to know the heroes before they become the team.
I think it’s pretty obvious why the reactions were different. Thrones wanted to subvert fan expectations cuz that’s the thing the show always did but avengers gave people exactly what they wanted. People hated thrones cuz it shocked and upset them but that’s always why we watched the show
GoT was orininally smart and complex with better plot twists than anything on TV or in Cinema. The similarities are superficial. Avengers was simplistic and cookie cutter in comparison. Towards the end nothing that made GoT great remained though.
@@mr_rgp I'm not upset at all. I am a bit disappointed, but utimately it's only TV. I feel most sorry for all the people who's hard work (directors, set creators, CGI artists, actors, etc) was ruined by incompetent writers. On the other hand, your the only person spouting angry rhetoric here, so I'd suggest you get over whomever pissed in your soup this morning. Either way, whether overrated or not is subjective. I can imagine not picking up on all the subtleties and family relationships could deminish some peoples enjoyment of GoT though.
@@mr_rgp Again, overrated or not is sublective. Your subjective opinion is not fact. Obviously not every episode can be the best episode of all time. Some will be better and others worse. That's pretty obvious and nobody would claim otherwise. Unless you spell out in a lot more detail how you've come to your whacky conclusion though (MCU and GoT are the same, and what that even means) I have little interest in debating it.
@@mr_rgp Yeah, maybe it's unintentional, but it appears you're just here to argue rather than have a meaningful discussion. 1) First, "It's an overrated show" is stated as a fact. As such you did claim your opinion was fact. If that's not what you wanted to say then you should have worded it differently. 2) My first post stated that by the end of GoT, it had lost everything that initially made it great. The final season made a lot of what previous seasons had built up meaningless. That's why, at this point, almost everybody thinks GoT sucked. You appear to be arguing as if my position were different, which looks like an attempt at a cheap straw-man. 3) Ultimately, every epic ever written is based on one or more of only seven abstract themes. That's creative writing 101. For that reason, all epic stories have a lot of similarities. You could make this same comparison with any other epic and find many resemblances there as well (not the exact same ones mind you). This video focused on the similarities and intentionally ignored all the differences. You then, in my view foolishly, jumped the gun by concluding MCU and GoT are "the same", while the video's authors themselves more correctly speak only of "resemblances". Those are completely different concepts. As far as I'm concerned you're ignoring everything this video didn't mention and exaggerating what they did mention to an absurd extent. However, you can use any absurd definition of "the same" you want to justify your own choice of wording, which is why I really just don't care anymore. Either way, I'm out, as I think you either don't have a good point to make or are unable to state it clearly. I'll leave it at that.
To the point you made about both stories concluding with a team of elites still making decisions for everyone: with Disney "conquering" so much of the industry it's really not surprising that they'd resolve their narrative in a way that doesn't conflict with their actual beliefs. GOT, like you said, just did a worse job of it. It's like when someone is only being nice to you because they want something from you and they're not even doing a good job of being fake which annoys you more than if they just came out and asked you for whatever they want without the facade lolol. Just insulting your intelligence smh.
Endgame didn't feel to me like the total success this video described, regardless of RT scores. I'd say both finales suffered from problems with execution, and that GoT's were closer to catastrophic, while Endgame's were merely depressing.
Film snob opinion noted...be interesting to see whether it stands the test of time. The example of Hitchcock's initially-reviled-now-revered Vertigo comes to mind.
the problem is that it actually became the MCU, when it originally had more in common with Astro City comic series or Marvels penciled by the same author...
Another huge difference: mcu give its villain a whole movie to make him 3D while we only hear about GOT villain, he rarely appears outside of killing people
I have never seen GOT, but lived in MCU. It turned out to be a modern day mythology that dealt with power and sacrifices. But most importantly MCU nailed its theme in Endgame which is legacy. I see no one talking about it. Thats why Endgame is more satisfying I guess.
I didn't hear her say that. Even hint at it. And honestly, although I thought Season 8 was a rushed and incomplete mess, it's nice to watch a video that's not so negative.
These are typical epic story arcs. You could draw the same parallels to Star Wars, Lord or the Rings or Breaking Bad. Just pick another epic tale and you could make the same vid. Very nice work though
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The Take now do an analysis of Lion King Please
In this video, you mentioned “the Game of Thrones of Tywin Lannister”, and in your video on “The Children” episode, it was discussed how important of a character he was to the story. I would love to see a video breaking down his importance to the plot, and the lessons we can take from his character in the modern world.
you had me up till you started talking about 'democracy'...that's three men and a girl deciding who gets raped...gang rape is always wrong...ALWAYS...power will always corrupt...no one knows what is best for anyone and if you think YOU do? you are the problem...i don't get to tell you how to live and you don't get to tell me how to live and as long as we aren't hurting each other and respect that each other has a right to exist? conflict resolved...'climate change' or whatever you want to call this new scare tactic that's been going on for over a hundred years (it's cooling it's heating we're all gonna die!) is not a thing, but i still eat vegan and live zero waste because i'm more interested in doing the least amount of harm with my time here...your summation of 'a remarkable group of people coming together on the same page' ? sounds like every dictator and tyrant EVER...like dany you THINK you know what's good so you get to decide for everyone...i just want to leave you alone and be left THE FUCK alone...so you just gonna kill the people like me who aren't on your page? i'm pro gun and pro life and pro gay in addition to being generally conservative (though i want to move towards anarchy..NO RULERS)...and only one side is trying to silence me....only ONE side calls me nazi...my takeaway was there is NO legitimate form of government, no one can be trusted to rule, and no one SHOULD rule over others...the ending of game of thrones sucked because the writers got tired of doing it and ran out of source material (they 'return of the jedi'd' it) and the marvel writers had a vision and a plan and source material and aren't tired of doing it
The Take attack on titan .full metal alchemist or death note video essay will be cool from you smart beautiful ladies
Bullshit. Also, Endgame is a shitty movie, so the comparison does fir TLJ, GOT S8 and Endgame.
Let's just hope Loki and Thor aren't EXACTLY the same as Cersei and Jamie 😂😂😂
Crick1952 Loki would definitely be the top
Lmao🤣🤣🤣
no, these two sibling duos are mirror images, not same, opposite rather.
cersei + jaime : doom for the 7 kingdoms, including their own.
loki + thor on the other hand, would be a very strong protection to 9 realms. both politics, technology (magic to them) and militarywise. just like the old odin and queen frigga (loki s teacher) was.
if they stop bickering that is.
(we are not talking about out of universe or older than universe forces of course, because we didnt put c+j couple against night king alone)
I just thought that when they compared the Lannisters to Odinsons and I was like...are you sure you wanna go there, narrator? 😬 I don’t ship shame but okay, you’re the narrator, not me! Lmao!
@@ismata3274 I do completely agree, I was just making a joke 😄
In truth I hadn't thought of comparing GoT to the MCU, but they made some very nice points here
I don’t think Cersei ever stops being a villain. She certainly doesn’t have the redemption that Loki has.
It's so much more complex. Cersei was never a villain, she's a scared, cursed woman restricted by prophecies, her family and her gender. The thing is she was so too much far gone and have been trough too much for redemption.
shanouboubou While Cersei is certainly a victim of a lot of things, especially the sexism of her culture, it’s shown that she’s been cruel and manipulative since childhood. She abused Tyrion since he was born, pushed her best friend Melara down a well, and regularly manipulated Jaime’s feelings for her for selfish gain. There are some actions she has sympathetic reasons to do, such as killing Robert, but others that are completely inexcusable, like torturing the Blue Bard for literally no reason.
@@coqui9879 I think she's both a victim and a villain. Like someone said before, they're not mutually exclusive
shanouboubou yeah, that’s what I said
@@shanouboubou you make it sound like victims can't be the villain. That's often how one ends up on the path to being a villain. But she was always a terrible person.
House STARK for the win
Yup while the historical Starks lost
The Lannisters send their regards.
Stannis is the one true king
Imagine the interaction between Eddard Stark and Tony Stark.
Yeah Morgan is so cute.
At the end it always boils down to what Nolan so eloquently put:
"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain"
That quote always stuck with me and it still rings true.
GoT (D&D): Well, according to The Take, we are kinda the same story to Endgame.
Me: How dare you stand where he stood!!
The take but more effort in there season 8 videos the D n D
I understood that reference (Cap's voice)
@@toriartemis801 Tony rolled his eyes 🙄
Is that Deathly Hallows?
@@thekeeperofpromise Yes, hahah
"The MCU had never killed off a main character before."
Quicksilver: Am I a joke to- yeah, I am, I know.
Not REALLY a main character, yes?
Natasha and Gamora enter the chat
While watching the finale, it really struck me how Daenerys had become Endgame Thanos. She couldn't create the new world while those that remembered the old one lived, so she planned to destroy everything for the sake of a new dawn, under her. A grateful world. But the Killmonger parallel rings very true as well, connecting to the hurt she always carried with her, shaping her and leading her to all that destruction. She could never have been a good ruler, for the same reasons as Erik, as much as it pains me to say it. Those that don't desperately want the power and the position are more suited to holding them.
...Which is why I'm one of those people okay with the impassive Bran as king. (though if this is the Children playing a dirty game, that's awesome too.)
Fun food for thought! Makes sense grrm would have been inspired by comics as he has so many different characters and complex intertwining narratives, but I hadn’t heard him talk about it before!
makes sense since GRRM loves Spider-Man
The first minute where they do the comparisons had me going "...😑😑😑😑 HEEEYY!!!
Loki: There are no men like me.
Jaime: There are no men like me.
The difference is that Endgame delivered an incredibly satisfying ending and was overally greatly written to every single detail.
They had more time to think about it!
@@hectortorres4738 The Game of Thrones writers asked for +1 year to make the final season, and HBO gave it them. Season 8s failure is entirely upon the 2 main writers.
@@mr.raptorinc3374 HBO wanted 3 more season and they didnt wanted to do it because they were eager to leave.
@@Davidsalesbohrer I like your reasoning!
Endgame where listening to the crew and taking decisions with everyone. GOT was the work of 2 people who thought knew better. It's easy to see when you watch the actor noticing some blind spot on the story.
You know that in the first pilot they did about Games of thrones, the test audience were asking if the two blondes caracter were related. They reshot it again. This is why we hear them explaining everything on screen now. I heard it will be GRRM's ending they show us. I investigate and imagine how this could happen so it would make senses.
I think the main things about subverting expectiation's logic is that they didn't dare (or understand) show us the dark side of the Starks. So they decided to show Deanarys evilness without showing us the good. She was always a tyrant but also a liberator. If she did burn the red keep with collateral damage the decision to kill her would be a real dilemna. If by destroying the red keep she kill all the court, she kill babies, and like she did killing the soldier that surrender and she could even have killed by collateral damage Missandei. Killing Missandei and denying her responsability would be in her caracter arcs: looking away when she is responsible for horror. Even killing Cersei could have more layer if she knew she was pregnant (maybe Sansa would have defend Cersei if she knew about the baby.)
Jon being a soldier and a men who knew what it is to follow order would see the horror she did and could still love her. No need to destroy everyone in King Landing to understand that.
Arya too could face the horror of her bloodthirst knowing Cersei is pregnant.
We could have see Sansa's rebellion against Daenarys be something more. Not just a superficial intuition. We could have that Sansa's leadership may or may not be superficial. (Killing Ramses doesn't heal her from choosing two cruel husband.) We may even have seen Robyn Arryn mad at the Stark for killing his uncle Baelish or when he learned that Sansa lied about her mother death. They could go to war (Robyn Arryn destroying the castle made of snow seem to me like foreshadowind) or they could make an alliance by wedding (and Robyn Arryn being as cruel as Jeoffrey and Ramses)
About Bran, did he let everything happen so he can get the crown? Maybe not but people could think if him that way. If he did let the massacre happens to sit on the thrones he is the one who has the more blood of the innocent on his soul (starting from Hodor too folk of kill landing) They could have show us how Tyrion choose him. Maybe Bran went into his past to fuck Tyrion like he did with Hodor. Maybe he see through everyone at the meeting and blackmail them about something hideous they did.
They have mentioning Tywin Lannister quite a bit in the past few videos. Like if you want a full video devoted to this great villain!
Ryan Magee He’s not even a villain if you think about it, just a necessary evil.
He does what he does to protect and strengthen his family. It's what a lot of characters in GOT do. I would argue that if there is a villain besides the Nightking it would be Littlefinger who knowingly started this great civil war just to create chaos to help him climb to the top.
MCU has Jeff Goldblum playing slave emperor dancing to 80s music and GOT doesn't have it.
MCU>GOT
Grand Master having orgies = Oberyn Martell having orgies
@@vintagexela Grand Master = head intact, Oberyn = head turned ketchup. Grandmaster wins.
@Scott Summers d and d is that you? Is this your fake account to cover up your mess in season 8?
The title of this video should have been "Endgame of Thrones"
I never would have made these connections. that's why I love this channel. excellent work, as always!
I made this like the very first time I watch episode 3 season 8
I did make these connections, what does that make me ?
@@Arovna smarter than I am.
@@joshmciver4847 I wouldnt assert that.
One thing I liked about Endgame is that they made almost all movies worth rewatching, especially redeeming of sorts Ultron and Dark world
"Shit" -language
Friggas death
Tonys failure to protect Earth
Losing together
Giving Steve a normal life
Ending the mission
Have Nat have her death be a worthwhile sacrifice redeeming her and Hawkeye (prominent character who broke out in Ultron) after both had murderous lives
And a lot of detail go paid back. Tonsberg is the town where the tesseract was hidden behind a snake symbol from an Odin Asgard treasure painting, the same where New Asgard lives
Tony plays flicking with Nebula and later flicks Scott to his past self
Stephen Strange and Pepper in an iron armor both see a river flood coming in, parallel to Iron man 3 and calling back to the Sorcerer Supreme's saying that you cant beat a river into submission
"I wasnt always like this" "yeah me neither" lol
Omg canoning Jarvis ?
What I like about cpt marvel(movie) is that as a titular character movie it fails, its not a mcu movie in that regard, even tchalla is a better titular character movie than her, but njadaka is a pretty rich black panther though
But as one in 22 episode of the MCU it sure is a great rip off/prequel to cap Winter Soldier
Starts out as a standard mission with deceiving platoon of your true villains with a protagonist whos not quite from this world or era, trying to adapat to his mission, out to survive and evade manipulation from an undercover plot to extermination of a sizable group of people, with shield, thats been infiltrated, with fury at the core of some of the important action, with one or more people adept in espionage and camouflage, and you know... captain
But its also a good prequel plot wise, unicerse wise(objects and stuff) for avengers, and to some little extent thor 1 as its an alien invasion
Thor 3 and BPanther are the same movie, basically usurp the throne cuz secret family member, recently dead father, theres a sort of civil war (asgardian zombies)
Ok theres no resolution to Hulk/Banner in endgame they essentially killed Hulk and Bruce and nat's relationship lasted till IW with those two brief interactions.
Sooo rich in set up.
Game of thrones just... you know, kinda forgot that Aegon Targaryen was a biiiig deal. I dont know if its because Martin dropped the ball or D&D badly adapted it but. Heh.
Dont consider yourself less smart than anyone, excellence isnt omnipotent.
Its easier to draw parallels and see patterns if you hoard enough baggage and educate yourself to deconstruct dissect and observe rather than just see. Thats how detectives operate, actors learn, manipulators improve and everyone should aspire to do.
@Scott Summers rematching ?
I was saying redeeming.
Because endgame built on the importance of what those 2 movies set up to make them more compelling, and as such relevant to the greater arcs that define the infinity saga
Beautiful video, and I’m so glad I wasn’t the only one who saw Thanos’s fanaticism in Danaerys. I didn’t see Killmonger’s rage, but you’re absolutely right that it’s there.
This is the best video I've watched about these two univereses' parallels and endings.
I could give money to watch this video! No joking!
Well done!
When I saw infinity war where half the characters died instantly I jokingly thought George RR Martin must have wrote that ending
Based on Winter Soldier and Civil War, I knew it was pure Russos. They specialize in the heartbreak.
@Scott Summers i am sure you are against to marvel. I can see it in all of your comments. It is ok to be biased.
@Scott Summers i am a fan of good storytelling if it is effective. If it is giving me all ranges of emotions. I am not resisting it just because i hate the fanbase. Season 8 does not give me emotions to care to any characters. They can die and i won't care.
@Scott Summers you are missing a lot of things then. I don't have to enumerate everything and the subtle things. Because you will always find ways to ignore it. Like a stone raised by self-righteous fundamentalist.
@Scott Summers you can always justify and make excuses for season 8.
The problem for game of thrones was that it became Marvel. The first 4 seasons were so good because they were a slow-burning character driven drama. Like the sopranos, I Claudius and many of the hallmarks of TVs golden age. After season 5 it turned into the kind mass-market popcorn schlock the MCU has been churning out, whilst the MCU itself actually worked to become more thoughtful, interesting and well-written
@Scott Summers i am sure you too are a fanboy of something.
@Scott Summers bcoz mcu are doing their best, adjusting to adversaries while d and d rushing to end GoT to get hands on star wars. You know how important the finale? It should have lasting impression that we cannot forget and talk about it for years to come. Season 8 doesn't have that. It is empty. Season 8 should be the most important season among previous seasons. Which writers have more passion to the art of good writing? Which writers are merely aiming for more money? I hope you are really using your critical thinking. Don't cloud the obvious with flowery words.
@Scott Summers no matter how you twist the words. It does not ignore the fact that after 2 years, GoT creators made a mediocre finale. I don't know if it is the writing or just being too rushed.
@Scott Summers i don't care if you are happy with GoT. After season 8, all the first 7 seasons were meaningless. After season 8, if you rewatch all the previous seasons, you won't care to any characters because they all ended up meaningless. The conclusion of supposedly a mastetpiece tv show is a mess.
@Scott Summers we are talking the lasting impression of each finale. Your reply is off tangent. Are you an australopithecus afarensis that did not evolve? Upgrage your off tangent brain please. Thank you.
I never noticed Tony was a Stark, lol
Same 😂, there videos are so impressive and insightful
I will tell the main reason one had a satisfying ending and other didn't.
MCU writers were so focused on the story detail irrespective of the movie. That helped directors and the actors to stick to a strong foundation no matter where the stream took them. But they were also very much open to the public. After each movie, they exactly knew what the fans wanted.! Kid Spiderman in Ironman2, Cap and Peggy's dance are such few examples.
Game of Thrones on the other hand had a wonderful start, something no has ever seen before. That's why it became so popular. And TV shows' fate lies upon the the beginning. But as they went on, its like the writers were in the discussion room and suddenly they had an idea and straight on went to implement it without thinking about the previously mentioned prophecies and foreshadowings.! That might have made their writing easier but they got lost.
As soon as fans knew there was going to be something like Avengers: Endgame, they were expecting the answers to all the questions they had for about 10 years.! And much to the fans satisfaction, they were answered with new twists.!
But GOT fans have still some questions unanswered (mainly surrounding the Night King, as everyone thought).
Also both releasing on the same month raised a lot of comparisons. And due to the above points, Endgame easily won. But still GOT left some memories.!
As always amazing work. Would you ladies ever do an analysis on the Creed Franchise I feel like there is so much there.
Most of the time, it's only ever talked about strictly in connection with the Rocky franchise. Be nice to see where it stands on its own, yeah.
Anyone else predicting a "Star Wars = MCU" video later this year?
Maria Moeller Thor, Iron man and captain America all have parallels to Luke in the last jedi. Iron man dying to save the hero’s from a giant army. Thor being unable to move on from his own failure until a mentor figure guides him back to doing what he needs to do. Cap standing off against a massive army alone.
Wow they saw more comparisons than I saw. I do agree though that GOT didn’t stay true to the characters and the way they were developed.
I'm surprised you didn't match the Loki "There are no men like me" with Jaime Lannister saying that when he is talking to Catlyn after being captured by the Starks.
MCU and GOT are the same story becauauauauause in both stories the Starks rock and rule :D
Starks win in the end!
Clearly GoT lost because they don’t have wormhole aliens.
You can kill Dragons with a big slingshot, as long as a drunken pirate is aiming from a boat bobbing on the sea from 20 miles away.
Something I find really interesting is the similarity between Stannis Baratheon and Thanos. You guys kept a very short clip of their faces next to each other but I don't think anything was ever explained. Let me explain. Milesandre told Stannis that he needed to sacrifice a Human life to end up sitting on the Iron Throne (his main focus at the time) so he chose to sacrifice the life of his own daughter Shireen. In Avengers: Infinity War, Thanos had to sacrifice a Human life to get the Soul Stone (his main focus at the time) so he chose to sacrifice the life of his own daughter Gamora. Coincidence? I think not.
One was reached his goal while the other just got trolled
That was an incredibly generous interpretation of both franchises. I never would have thought about it. The idea of elites needing to stay in charge in both is rather...troubling.
Johnathon Haney lol! What do you expect from a group of people who admit that while the world moves in, they dint move in, acting as if theyre more special.
@@Bell_Matt No disrespect but what did you just say?
Wow!👏🏽 bravo! I never realized or noticed so many similarities and my two favorite franchises fantastic job! Amazing breakdown, ladies keep it up! 💙
This has got to be my favorite video on your channel!
The difference in Endgame's success is The Russos didn't rush to finish it.
Also, Captain America's ass.
That really is America's Ass.
It’s really brilliant! Even though I love both stories I never consciously thought about their similarities and differences, nor did it come into my mind to compare their endings..
Magnificent take, applause on the thorough similarities between the two while using the split screen.
Spoilers for both Endgame and Game of Thrones broke at around the same time and both caused major freakouts on social media (especially Reddit). Except that the spoilers for Endgame that sounded terrible in a vacuum--Fat Thor?! Black Widow doesn't get a funeral?! Cap just gives up?!--made sense in context once people actually saw the movie. Those Game of Thrones spoilers never got better so there was a growing dread as the season crept on and they were proved more and more accurate.
Endgame delivered.
Game of Thrones' finale was all hype
I love this channel! You take subtext, narrative themes, parallel and mirroring characters and make them available to a larger audience. That is really amazing
Summer: I don't feel so good
Winter: I am inevitable!
I was soooo looking forward for this! Thank you, a thousand times thanks!!!
Yeah, that's why this is one of my favorite channels on RUclips.
Keep up the good work!
I may say it is the best on whole RUclips.
@@Osxcar57
Not sure if i can agree but certainly I won't oppose that either, they do amazing work
@@reculture I'd call it the least biased, most balanced and absolutely the most thoughtful RUclips channel out there. The ability to find unique angles on material we all know is extraordinary.
This was a wonderful video. I am truly grateful for discovering your channel
Got season 8 was rushed
.... That's the only flaw it had.
and the other one is a 3 hour movie... there's a reason the MCU didn't disappoint i guess ;)
You can't say that's the ONLY flaw when that's exactly why it turned the series from very good to very shit.
It's not the only flaw
It was actually season 7 split. They seem to have waited to see if the world would be fed up enough with our leadership to be okay with this ending about “checked power.”
Splendid video !! Loved the comparisons showed !! Wonderful Work!!
Love these video!
Maybe in the future, could you please analyze what's eating Gilbert Grape?
This was PERFECT! Kudos! 💜
I was waiting for you to do this. I’m surprised it took you so long. I’ve been done with GOT videos, sick of listening to people bitching like little children over the ending. But I gonna watch your video yo!
Kill monger: Burn it all!
Me: Wow, I didn't even know that was there!
Part of the difference also has a lot to do with where the bar was set. Marvel never set the expectation of intricacy, complex character, and consequences that GoT did. While D&D definitely dropped the ball, they also had a far greater writing challenge to tackle than the writers of Endgame did. The MCU audience was never going to be as critical of the quality of the writing and character motivations as the GoT audience. Those who did stopped caring or watching years ago.
Endgame of Thrones?
At first I was like “hmmm 🤔” but now I’m like “Oh! 😱”
This is one of the best comparisons videos I have seen
With everything that happens in Throne Game it would be hard not to find things related to any other story
I don't know, but the GoT finale felt basically the same as the end of Hunger Games Catching Fire to me. Dany ended up continuing the very cycle she was supposed to stop, and Jon Snow Katniss'd her before she could take control.
Nice angle!
Margaery, sweetie, I'm so sorry.
Don't feel too bad for her. I do think the actress probably was disappointed (like I was) when she died at the end of Season 6. Her character was easily IMO the smartest and most able player of the game, I think she'd have made a better ruler than Dany or Jon or Bran even. But yeah then she dies in basically a terrorist like explosion at the sept of Baelor, but low key if I was the actress seeing how bad the show got in it's final two seasons I may not remain so disappointed. She kind of got to go out just as the show was really beginning to whimper out in terms of quality, whether she knew it at the time or not.
@@voteZDLR I heard the actress even asked to be killed off even earlier because she booked some other projects and had a busy schedule.
@@FlowerTrollSan It's possible... I think more likely her death happened when it was meant to happen though. It wasn't just a flukey death, it was a major death for not just Margaery but several other main characters. It didn't seem rushed or forced or anything, if she did want to do other things it was probably because she knew at the beginning of the season if not well before about when she'd be free from the bonds of the show.
That being said Margaery may very well have been my favorite character, she's definitely my favorite of all the ones who ever WANTED the Throne. She was by far the smartest and she seemed to have a good head on her shoulders where her people were concerned, she wanted their adulation and she's so benevolent it even begins rubbing off a little bit on Joffrey (who begins to learn through her that it's better for the people to love you than to fear/hate you).
I am just saying, some people debate exactly where the show lost its way. I personally think quality began going downhill noticeably beginning in Season 5. The last truly decent season, overall, we had was Season 6. Seasons 7 and 8 were an absolute trainwreck.
Loki: There are no men like me.
Jaime: There are no men like me, only me.
O_O
Glad to be alive and a fan of both stories that I thoroughly enjoyed during the ride, few things are better than a great story. One went out amazingly, the other......... Not so much.
Even if season 8 had better writing, there would still be a lot of fans left disappointed. GoT fans want to see something that they actually do not want, so it's hard to figure out what exactly the majority could "want" and if it's a good idea to give it to them. It's just very hard. Marvel fans on the other hand just want a nice ending. They knew long before that there would be main character deaths in Endgame and they were rather prepared for it. The way it happened was satisfying, Nat sacrificing herself for Clint and the soulstone and Tony literally saving the world. The rest lived happily ever after. The expectations for GoT were just a lot higher and harder to match, so it's no wonder MCU fans were far more happy with the ending than GoT fans.
I don't care if it's the same story, Endgame Wins!
Except Infinity war was infinitely better though lol
@@CaleebTalib I'm talking about the conclusion
This is a brilliant video. But a seed they didn't act on Endgame was The Steve Bucky relationship. What about "I will be wilt you till the end of the line"
I feel like that seed played out pretty well in Civil War. Steve and Bucky are not the same people anymore and they need to grow into being their own person without that co-dependency. Steve got the chance to do so, Bucky didn't and I think we'll see that play through further on Bucky's part in the Falcon & Winter Soldier show.
Except the directors and writers for GoT called it in.
Jaime should have got the Infinity Stones and Snapped the NK and his Army of the Dead out of existence.
When the release dates for both Endgame and GOT last season were announced, I told my friends that I suspected some sort of connection between both the stories that watching one of it first could make the other predictable. I was right to an extend as both Thanos and Night King wanted to wipe out the memory of everything. May be that is why Night Kings intentions were not very overwhelmingly surprising...
I wrote an essay about this on my blog BEFORE the premiere of both finales!
Bravo on your prescient insight! Is it possible we could get a link to that blog?
@@johnathonhaney8291 I'm not sure I'm allowed to post the actual link, but I believe I can post something like: misty aquavenatus .com
@@misty306 Appreciated! I'll check it out in a bit.
Johnathon Haney I hope you find my content to be interesting!
For some reason I was thinking that Bran was going to be equated more to Rhoady, considering...Rohady flies, but also had the same sort of injury occur. But Strange works a LOT better.
Both comparisons work in their own way.
Good stories draw on archetypes and both of these (although much more nuanced in GoT) how they interact
In my opinion, the attitude of the writers makes a huge difference. Marcus and Mcfeely are humble and take input from outsiders and actors whereas Bennioff and Weiss are arrogant and overrated. They think they're super clever and that nothing could equal their storytelling abilities. They put subversion over storytelling and character. If they were really clever, they wouldn't have rushed to get to Star Wars. Or better yet, they would have handed it off to competent writers that were passionate about the story. Just my humble opinion.
The difference however is that one had quality writers that cared about the story and didn't rush the ending. The other had writers that were sick of story and rushed the ending because they couldn't wait to move on to their next project, ruining Star Wars.
You forgot one other factor: Kevin Feige. Unique among modern producers, he's been a true creative force that anchored MCU from the start.
Some people complain about the 3 hour runtime for the conclusion of 21 movies and 11 years. Some people complain the ending of Game of Thrones should have been much longer and everything was rushed. People will be people.
@From a Bicycle seat Auteur theory is bullshit, at least in terms of exclusively applying to directors. Kevin Feige has proven to be every bit the auteur as a producer.
Three of my favorite things!! GoT, MCU and this channel. Perfect.
GOT is a TV show made like a movie and the MCU are movies made like a TV show.
I've been Waiting for a channel to make a video like this!! Love you Screenprism!
To be fair I think it was much easier to wrap up the MCU in an emotionally satisfying and clean way, than it was for Game of Thrones.
13:11 The irony here is that a cynical ending would have clearly pleased the viewers and impress them more. The change of tone is what surprised them. And I think the tranquil, calm last episode that showed that the resolution of the plots was not constituted in explosions and violence, but in discussions and compromises, was what surprised and disappointed people the most. That's what taking a meaningful risk looks like.
I smacked the thumbnail so hard when I saw the title!
Me too :)
Explaining tone really helped me understand why the series finale was so weird, the small council scene att the end of GOT is like a sitcom scene at the end of a Marvel movie. I always thought that altruism without strategy was doomed in the GOT universe, so it was really strange seeing characters making dumb altruistic choices yet winning from it.
You guys do such a great analysis. When I first saw the title, I was like "psshhh whatever", but then I saw who posted it and was like "okay, maybe". Lol
@From a Bicycle seat Nope. Love em both. But dont often relate them because of the strikingly different tone, and greater depth GoT has,(used to have) whereas the MCU has relatively surface level points to make in comparison.
MCU is very straight forward, GoT is (was) very nuanced.
But when you really look at it, like they just did. There are alot of similarities
The only thing I got from the end of GoT is everyone getting caught up in what they think should happen instead of just kicking back and taking it for what it is
A year of theorizing using LOTR logic will do that.
Great video. I never noticed the similarities before, other than the Starks saving the day and Jon/Cap.
But I think it's because I'm more invested in GoT than the MCU.
And while I agree the MCU delivered on their story, I felt the ending was predictable. Moreover, with the exception of Tony, the MCU had a Disney ending (and well, the MCU is owned by Disney).
I always felt GoT showed more similarities to today's world. It's not pretty. And as much as I hated the sexism, misogyny, war, etc., unfortunately that evil is still going on today.
As a veteran myself I felt GoT portrayed the military better. Yes, they showed the war and glory, but they also showed the shitty side. I felt the MCU Disney-fied it.
I also felt GoT's ending would be unpredictable, other than knowing the ending was going to be bittersweet, and that we the fans were either going to love it, or hate it.
It's just sad D&D phoned it in these last couple of seasons. I will give it to the MCU/Disney that their writers still cared about the story. HBO wanted full 10-episode seasons and provided an unlimited budget, but D&D turned it down.
GRRM wanted 12 or 13 seasons, But Dumb and Dumber wanted that Star Wars money.
@@pablorodriguez9672 yup. That's the reason why GoT's ending didn't land.
I feel comparing GoT to MCU isn't fair. The ending is one reason.
Moreover, one is for the whole family to enjoy, while the other showed the ugly reality. There's a reason why one will be streamed on Disney, and the other is on HBO.
And when Ramsey said, "If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention," that pretty much sums up GoT.
Such a good thoughtful video!
That's a really interesting take.
Really well done!
Only difference is one had real passion put into the ending while the other was lazily phoned in.
Not lazy. It was rushed and they had no choice. There's no way you can cover everything perfectly in just 6 episodes which they had signed for. We got to rmb that GOT was ACTUALLY planned for 7 seasons only, not 8.
@@davidcorrenberg2782
Apparently HBO wanted to go for 10 seasons, but the GOT show writers (D&D) only wanted to do 8 with the last 2 being shorten.
Rumors say they had a deal for a Star Wars trilogy do they rushed GOT instead of giving it to someone else to finish.
@@jefferybrown6473 guess you are right and i was wrong
Two words: Hero's Journey. If we really look into it, Star Wars, LotR, Avengers Endgame, GoT, Harry Potter, etc are all the same stories?
MCU and GOT are very much about different heroes coming together via different and equally interesting adventures to overcome greater evil. "Star Wars", "Lord of the Rings" and "Harry Potter" are all great, but they are linear stories. They make you relate to a protagonist, but not exactly giving you a feeling that you're a part of a bigger picture with your own role to play.
tl;dr You have to know the heroes before they become the team.
Great video! great connections described in an succinct but meaningful way!
I think it’s pretty obvious why the reactions were different. Thrones wanted to subvert fan expectations cuz that’s the thing the show always did but avengers gave people exactly what they wanted. People hated thrones cuz it shocked and upset them but that’s always why we watched the show
Would you say that GOT fans wanted, in the end, a more predictable ending than the one we got?
GoT was orininally smart and complex with better plot twists than anything on TV or in Cinema. The similarities are superficial. Avengers was simplistic and cookie cutter in comparison.
Towards the end nothing that made GoT great remained though.
@@mr_rgp I'm not upset at all. I am a bit disappointed, but utimately it's only TV. I feel most sorry for all the people who's hard work (directors, set creators, CGI artists, actors, etc) was ruined by incompetent writers.
On the other hand, your the only person spouting angry rhetoric here, so I'd suggest you get over whomever pissed in your soup this morning.
Either way, whether overrated or not is subjective. I can imagine not picking up on all the subtleties and family relationships could deminish some peoples enjoyment of GoT though.
@@mr_rgp Again, overrated or not is sublective. Your subjective opinion is not fact.
Obviously not every episode can be the best episode of all time. Some will be better and others worse. That's pretty obvious and nobody would claim otherwise.
Unless you spell out in a lot more detail how you've come to your whacky conclusion though (MCU and GoT are the same, and what that even means) I have little interest in debating it.
@@mr_rgp Yeah, maybe it's unintentional, but it appears you're just here to argue rather than have a meaningful discussion.
1)
First, "It's an overrated show" is stated as a fact. As such you did claim your opinion was fact. If that's not what you wanted to say then you should have worded it differently.
2)
My first post stated that by the end of GoT, it had lost everything that initially made it great. The final season made a lot of what previous seasons had built up meaningless. That's why, at this point, almost everybody thinks GoT sucked. You appear to be arguing as if my position were different, which looks like an attempt at a cheap straw-man.
3)
Ultimately, every epic ever written is based on one or more of only seven abstract themes. That's creative writing 101. For that reason, all epic stories have a lot of similarities. You could make this same comparison with any other epic and find many resemblances there as well (not the exact same ones mind you). This video focused on the similarities and intentionally ignored all the differences. You then, in my view foolishly, jumped the gun by concluding MCU and GoT are "the same", while the video's authors themselves more correctly speak only of "resemblances". Those are completely different concepts.
As far as I'm concerned you're ignoring everything this video didn't mention and exaggerating what they did mention to an absurd extent. However, you can use any absurd definition of "the same" you want to justify your own choice of wording, which is why I really just don't care anymore.
Either way, I'm out, as I think you either don't have a good point to make or are unable to state it clearly. I'll leave it at that.
16:40 hold me Onion Knight
To the point you made about both stories concluding with a team of elites still making decisions for everyone: with Disney "conquering" so much of the industry it's really not surprising that they'd resolve their narrative in a way that doesn't conflict with their actual beliefs. GOT, like you said, just did a worse job of it. It's like when someone is only being nice to you because they want something from you and they're not even doing a good job of being fake which annoys you more than if they just came out and asked you for whatever they want without the facade lolol. Just insulting your intelligence smh.
Finally I got what I've been waiting for 😙😄, thanks 😍😘
Endgame didn't feel to me like the total success this video described, regardless of RT scores. I'd say both finales suffered from problems with execution, and that GoT's were closer to catastrophic, while Endgame's were merely depressing.
Film snob opinion noted...be interesting to see whether it stands the test of time. The example of Hitchcock's initially-reviled-now-revered Vertigo comes to mind.
House Stark cleaning house, man. Damn.
the problem is that it actually became the MCU, when it originally had more in common with Astro City comic series or Marvels penciled by the same author...
00:12 aaaaannnnnnd I'm in love. Seriously,fantastic job girls.
Another huge difference: mcu give its villain a whole movie to make him 3D while we only hear about GOT villain, he rarely appears outside of killing people
I have never seen GOT, but lived in MCU. It turned out to be a modern day mythology that dealt with power and sacrifices. But most importantly MCU nailed its theme in Endgame which is legacy. I see no one talking about it. Thats why Endgame is more satisfying I guess.
Your video looks so good in final week.
The Take is the type of channel to give an in-detail video on why season 8 was the best season.
I didn't hear her say that. Even hint at it. And honestly, although I thought Season 8 was a rushed and incomplete mess, it's nice to watch a video that's not so negative.
GoT is a more grounded Lord of the Rings than Endgame. GoT's "big villain" that got killed in one episode is not even near to Thanos.
These are typical epic story arcs. You could draw the same parallels to Star Wars, Lord or the Rings or Breaking Bad. Just pick another epic tale and you could make the same vid. Very nice work though
I think these are very big universes that they have to cover a lot of philosophical topics.