@iv9753 Jorge already said it. Though they're more like imprints of the spirits' final thoughts than actual souls as we think of them. The only one who retains his sentience is Tiresias, because Persephone allowed him to keep his powers of prophesy after he died.
@@iv9753This is a thing that happened in the Odyssey. "At sight of her I wept, and my heart had compassion on her, but even so I would not suffer her to come near the blood, for all my great sorrow, until I had enquired of Teiresias."
@@iv9753Is true, is how the Underworld works in actual greek mythology. I'm telling you as a greek mythology fan. Being wrong is not a sin tho. Not trying to be rude either, have a nice day ❤
since it hasn't been stated yet. All the dead singers, their souls are singing their final thoughts. So despite dying, Polites still thought the world was an amazing place to greet with open arms
@@FlippMusicif you want more sadness, in some translations the books, the mom saw Odysseus' boat get blown away by the winds when the bag was opened (since they were literslly within sight of Ithaca), thought her son died, and walked into the sea
english is a trick language that means different things depending on what word is emphasize because one meaning yes you are correct another means there was a path where it was possible for him but due to something he did he no longer can
This is the interpretation that we have with knowledge of the future story, but another interpretation (arguably the one that Ody has which informs his later actions) is with the context of other timelines mentioned earlier in the song that the path they are on has changed the future from one where he survives to one were someone else does (and thus Ody commits to doing everything possible for that other future) as with most prophesy in stories, there are multiple interpretations and the true one isn't clear without more knowledge till after it comes to pass.
@@FlippMusicits said she saw the ships in the distance when they were coming home (during the ocean saga) and she believed he died there. It’s implied she killed herself from the grief ):
Way back during the Ocean Saga when the bag was opened, the ships were approaching Ithaca. They were almost home and Odysseus’ mother, Anticleia, was watching them sail in. Excited to see her son again, her hope was ripped from her as the winds knocked them off course and she watched them sail away. False reports eventually came to her that Odysseus had died in the aftermath, and out of grief she threw herself into the ocean to be reunited with him. In the original story, Odysseus asks her how she died and she explains: “No sharp-eyed Huntress showering arrows through the halls approached and brought me down with painless shafts, nor did some hateful illness strike me, that so often devastates the body, drains our limbs of power. No, it was my longing for you, my shining Odysseus - you and your quickness, you and your gentle ways - that tore away my life that had been sweet." He proceeds to try hugging her three times, but cannot. To add to the pain of this scene in Epic canon, the dead cannot see Odysseus and his crew. Every word they speak is simply their final thoughts before they died. The dead Crew, Polites, and Anticleia have no idea he’s there, which is why they never directly acknowledge his presence in the Underworld or speak to him.
Yeah I heard him say that and I just thought back to video with Jorge talking about No Longer You and the background voices when thunder saga first released.
He definitely purposely made it so you can’t understand them, and I think he did that cause you never truly understand prophesies until they pass. Even then it’s more of a guess. Which is why he revealed what they say after the songs they refer to came out.
@@willwatts6733 the last two lines ("find poseidon" "kill all the suitors for love") respectively refer to Vengeance and Ithaca sagas, so no, the songs they refer to haven't *all* come out yet, but we already know what happens
Interesting fact about the words in brackets: They ARE official lyrics/subtitles, though we only found out about them recently since Jorge kept them a secret when the Underworld Saga came out because they foreshadow events in the saga after it. Which is the Thunder Saga :)
I'm not 100% sure about this, but to me Odysseus' guitar motif has some similarities to the danger is nearby motif, or maybe it's the other way around? I like to think it's because Odysseus is both dangerous and usually nearby danger lol and so his mom's motif sounds similar as well... also Polyphemus'. and a lot of the characters play around it 😅
I wonder if the theory Mortius mentioned, where his mom had to do retakes or something because the song made her so emotional or something like that, was ever confirmed or not. Apparently the whole idea of dying before Jorge really hit her when she was singing as another mother who died before her son. No idea if that's true or not since Mortius mentioned not knowing if it was just someone's assumption or an actual fact, but it's still sad to think about the irl impact this could have had his mom doing this part.
Fun fact: the bells in the background of the Underworld play the same tune as the music box from The Horse and The Infant when Odysseus bursts into the nursery
18:53 it has actually been revealed by Jorge that all those "chants" are meant to be chapters of the future. So as more songs release, he would reveal what each chant was saying. Since the Thunder Saga is out, he revealed in a short what the first few chants were saying (titles of the Thunder Saga). It's kinda like an easter egg that gets revealed as the story unfolds.
I think the meaning of "no longer you" is not that it's not *literally* a different person, but rather Odysseus was radically changed by his experiences and is thus "no longer [himself]." Odysseus himself completely misses this interpretation, which is why he's so angry
At least at first. I think he realizes by the end. This is what leads to Monster. There's even a melodic connection between the end of No Longer You and the beginning of Monster.
Yep, at first he has no idea who the Prophet is talking about, but at the end he gets it and understands the Prophet is saying he needs to change to get home. It's why he says during Monster "Do I need to change?" He knows the Prophet is telling him he HAS to if he wants to get home.
(Not so) fun fact: Ody's mom is voiced by Jay's mom, and she had a hard time getting through recording it because she was thinking about her son living in a world without her in it :((
18:45 that IS what they're saying in the back. this is a prophet after all, it wasnt spoiling since its just the name of the next songs. by the way, penelope didnt cheat on odysseus, she is loyal to him, it was implying that he will become a different person than he is now. which is also shown in the song ''monster'' that he DID change. this is also a throwback to the ''keep your friends close'' song where he said ''i'm still the same'' or smth like that
Its not the choir is specifically a god thing. Rather its that mortals/ non-gods choirs have to be diegetic. Meaning they need to exist and be actually there. Gods can make choirs exist whenever, they dont need an army singing for them. Hence why Zues in the infant has alot of bg voices happening while Oddy needs his crew there to have bg voices.
The Underworld song when his mother comes in hits me harder because my bro died while he was waiting for us to visit him at physio, we were literally 20 minutes away
The voices aren't tricks in this one, they are the actual spirit's last thoughts Plus Hades is usually a pretty chill guy by Greek god standards, I only know of one case where he messed a guy up with no outside influence, and that's because the guy tried to steal his wife
when you turned the subtitles off when you thought you didnt think thats what they are singing at the end of no longer you, IT IS and its what is forthcoming in the future sagas. spooky stuff
Yeah, I personally wouldn't recommend this animatic to any first-time listeners for the song since it guides you a bit too much in the meaning of the lyrics. I prefer having it more open to interpretation where you wonder "what does he mean? what/who is this prophet seeing?"
The events of The Underworld are real, they are not just in Odysseus' head. He does encounter the souls of his crew, Polites, and his mom Anticlea. All of which are singing echos of the last thing they thought before their death. Fun fact, Anticlea is voiced by Jorge's real life mom. Oof though. Pronunciation of Scylla right after hearing it. The man who is "No Longer You" is Odysseus. But its older, Ruthless Odysseus. So in a way. No longer the Odysseus that left Ithica. War changes people
Those lyrics were 100% CORRECT, and it was supposed to be hard for us to make out because they are indeed spoilers for what is to come. And Jay never revealed them UNTIL the saga finally dropped. ~
The chorus is saying "Scylla" - pronounced Sih-lah. -- The background chorus is part of the prophecy that was said to Odysseus. The subtitles updated with only half of the chorus' words, with the other half being unknown / guessed upon by the fandom. ----- The story thus far: Odysseus left Circe's palace and went to the Underworld. Those that he encountered: His men that drowned via Poseidon, Polities, and his Mother: were all actual spirits. They are singing their final thoughts before they died. ---- Who he speaks to is the 'brilliant prophet' that Circe mentioned in the finale of the Circe Saga.
I think he means the notes being played / the kind of cords that are being presented are those typically happy. But with the context of what is going on it makes it all the more sad.
@@alloraptorgen2 ^^^ This. Happy sounding songs with sad lyrics are Peak Sad. Think Fix You by Coldplay, or Lay Me Down by Sam Smith, or Words Fail by Dear Evan Hansen. All Happy background chord structures, but SAD EVERYTHING ELSE
No matter how many times I listen to Underworld, I can almost never get away without crying. It's a testament to Jorge's storytelling and the talent of the VAs that we can get so emotional over characters we either only had one song for, or none at all in the case of Ody's mom. As for the Underworld itself, it actually happens and isn't an illusion or a hallucination. Remember that in the song right before this Circe says she can get them there, and she did. I would imagine if the danger motif is there, it's because of his warning to his men, that no matter who they find or what they hear to ignore it. The danger that's present is just the nature of the Underworld itself. And yes, the blue guy in No Longer You is the Prophet that Circe told him about. He uh...even *calls* himself the Prophet Ody is looking for. You'll understand the implications of "a man who is haunting, with a trail of bodies" and also "palace covered in red" in later Sagas :3. Same with "I see you on the brink of death". But yeah the Prophet is saying "you aren't the man who makes it home, the man who you will become will make it home". Yes those chorus things you couldn't really make out ARE spoilers for Thunder Saga, so don't try to figure them out yet. Jorge has confirmed those four sets of lyrics, but he said there are more still hidden that he's not confirmed yet because THOSE are spoilers for more future Sagas.
No Longer You is genuinely my favorite song in all of EPIC because of the way Tiresias enunciates his singing. Such an open throat and soft lyrics gets me every time
I hope you don't feel like you have to pay too much attention to the animatics. They're super cool, but they're also other people's interpretations of what's happening, and I much prefer hearing your thoughts on the original music rather than on the visuals. I'm not a musician in any way, so everything you pick out is something I've never noticed before, which I really appreciate.
The spirits Ody faces in the Underworld are actually the real spirits of the dead. And, according to Jorge, the spirits are singing the last thoughts they had when they died. The crew: "Why would you let the cyclops live when ruthlessness is mercy?" Polites: "Greet the world with open arms" (so even in death he still believed in the possibility of good in the world). Ody's Mother: "Waiting" (she died waiting for her son. And if we go back to the original story, she saw his boat when Poseidon attacked in Ruthlessness and thought Ody died, so she stepped into the water and drowned herself in grief). Fun fact, Jorge's mother sings that part. Also, the lyrics the choir's singing are accurate. They foreshadow what happens in the Thunder saga. Siren Song: the sirens. Scylla Throat: facing Scylla. Mutiny: Eury and Ody battling. Lightning bolt: Zeus entering the scene.
These background lyrics in the end, that are really hard to understand, are supposed to be hard to understand. In a short Jorge did confirm the ones, that where written in the captions, but said, that he won't reveal the last ones, as that are spoilers. So those are hidden spoilers and when you know what they should sing, you can kinda hear it. But even then it's hard to understand sometimes. All on purpose.
Oh yah, this completely takes over your mind. I went from being traumatized by the odyssey (the cyclops) in high school to absolutely loving and obsessing over this story!!
His mom waited over 10 years, then saw the storm that drove them away when they were almost to Ithaca. She thought he had perished, so in her grief she walked into the sea and ended it (in the Odyssey). Her singing in this song is what she was thinking as she died. And Odysseus had no idea that she'd died while he was gone, much less only a little while before they even went into the Underworld where he saw her. Worse, is the idea that the shades/souls of those in the Underworld don't know he's there and can't hear him - Tiresias is a special case, and in the Odyssey, Odysseus actually had to make a sacrifice of blood for Tiresias' shade to drink so he could speak with Odysseus.
So in Greek Mythology there are a few notable Seers/Prophets that can see the future. This man in the underworld is Tiresias. The Oracle of Delphi is another figure, but you're right that she could also see the future. My guess as to why Circe sent Odysseus specifically to Tiresias is that all other prophets would have required Odysseus to try to get back to land which was what the problem was in the first place so the only Prophet he could get to "safely" was in the Underworld
So in this musical, whenever a mortal has a background choir it is coming from real people in the story. Mortal background choirs are diagetic, so when Odysseus or his Second are singing with background vocals it is the Crew. Some monsters and all gods, however, have the power to break the 4th wall basically. Supernatural creatures can summon their own choir which does not require them to have other characters physically present. SLIGHT SPOILER PAST THIS Not ALL monsters summon their own choir and there is a monster in the next saga thar harmonizes with themselves rather than with the nondiagetic choir.
The piano playing under Ody’s mom’a segment is a Major reflection of Odysseus’s own motif which has the danger motif baked into it, thus his mom’s motif also has the Danger motif baked in, just in Major key so… safety motif? Comfort motif. :3
Odysseus’ theme seems to be a minor(?) version of Anticlea’s theme(or I guess her theme is a major version of his? Mother-son connection, except his is on a guitar and hers is a piano?), when I heard you play it on the piano, like the similar notes that play when Odysseus is being a tactician Ody feeling threatened in the underworld makes sense too for the danger motifs, hearing all the final thoughts of those who died, and then getting hit with the knowledge his mom died waiting for him 😢 painnn Loving these reactions and having you hit us with the music theory 🎉
OHHHHHH I was just thinking it's weird the danger motif is so present in this saga since there's not rly an enemy god or monster and then i realised THE DANGER IS ODYSSEUS! Wherever Ody is, there's the danger motif, bc he's the monster, not any gods or monsters, you know the roster.
The danger motif in Underworld you're hearing is likely due to the inherent danger in wanting to be with the ones who have died in the Underworld I think.
The melody being played with Ody's mom is the same as the guitar as the guitar at the beginning of The Horse and The Infant, it's Odysseus' melody just how that certain piano melody is for Athena
The choir is absolutely singing those words, they will make sense in the future and they've all been confirmed by Jorge. Btw Scylla is pronounced silla. I suspect Jorge made them so ambiguous and difficult to understand to reward the ppl who are paying a lot of attention without spoiling the casual listener TOO much
The motif with Anticlea (Ody’s mum) is actually a major version of Odysseus’ theme! But I do think the Odysseus theme does contain the danger motif. For reference, the Odysseus theme is the guitar thing from “The Horse and the Infant,” “Done For,” and “The Underworld.”
Scylla! The c is silent it’s pronounced Sil-ah. I can hear them say those words. I just think because you don’t have the content that you can’t hear them properly. I will say though all those words are spoilers for the next saga so don’t look too into it. Uh maybe just remember them when you get into the thunder saga
None of those ghosts he saw were in his mind. They were the ghosts of the dead. Now why those exact ghosts were there when Odysseus was in that part of the Underworld could be attributed to Hades or someone.
BTW I love your music analysis. It's nice that you try to follow along in the story but you don't have to. It's your decision but my two cents are that focusing on one while keeping mild attention on the other gives a higher quality reaction and/or analysis. Thank you for the video.
The subtitles were correct, we know the first four things the chorus says in this song, Jay confirmed it. Side note, are you asking for more myth knowledge?
It is him just he has changed as in his morals and the words that the spirits are saying are the right words it has been confirmed from my understanding
I love how in the first song you kept commenting on the danger motiv that wasn't actually there, but in the second song you missed the ACTUAL danger motiv.
I’m positive that you are confusing the Danger motif with a much more common one. The danger motif sounds like a heartbeat when everything is stripped away, but will sound more musical when it’s mixed with other motifs and themes. Also yes, the lyrics from the chorus are actually correct but we don’t have all of them yet. They are also predictions that were intentionally made hard to catch what they are saying. Oh also, everything the prophet saw is about the future. EVERYTHING. (That was missed by most of the animators but I won’t harp on them much as they didn’t know that at the time)
He doesn’t know his mom is dead when he sees her now by the way And You missed a danger motif in No Longer You after he says he’s sailed through the toughest of times And they are actually saying those words he made so you could barely understand stand it
Cause you were confused humans and can also have a background choir, but the background choir for humans have to be physically with them, but the gods however, can summon their own choir so for Odysseus, the choir that singing with him is his crew 😊
all the choire words are added by gwendy after Jorge confimed some of the words that they are saying, so is kinda spoiler for the next saga especially, but all of that is true :)
btw, No Longer You is in 6/8s, and the ghost chorus actually do sing honest reveals that are hard to perceive for what comes next. Jorge has revealed 4/7 of the lines so far (via confirming vids that took swings and guessed) after Thunder Saga's release, but there's strong contenders for the last 3 lines. And you seem to have taken the wrong interpretation, the same interpretation Ody mistook at first. The answer is that the one who makes it home is "No Longer" him. As in it once was him. And that realization that he has to change (though without spoiling, probably again the wrong interpretation of why he wouldn't be himself) will lead to our next song. See ya for that one
Sorry for so many comments! But regarding the not paying attention to the animations thing what might be worth doing is having a casual listen through first where you just watch the animation and react to the plot as it emerges and then go back and analyse it in finer detail. There were a couple of times where you paused it JUST as a big change plotwise was about the emerge and the pausing kinda ruined the impact it was supposed to hold, kinda defanged it a bit. And I think doing it that way would help avoid that too.
haven't seen anybody mention this yet but in No Longer You everything Tiresias predicts is referencing both an event in Odysseus' past AND his future since he sees "past and future running free"
Everything he hears in the first song is ACTUAL dead spirits, not an illusion. They are in the underworld where the dead exist.
I'm not so sure
@iv9753 Jorge already said it. Though they're more like imprints of the spirits' final thoughts than actual souls as we think of them. The only one who retains his sentience is Tiresias, because Persephone allowed him to keep his powers of prophesy after he died.
@@iv9753This is a thing that happened in the Odyssey. "At sight of her I wept, and my heart had compassion on her, but even so I would not suffer her to come near the blood, for all my great sorrow, until I had enquired of Teiresias."
@@iv9753Is true, is how the Underworld works in actual greek mythology. I'm telling you as a greek mythology fan. Being wrong is not a sin tho. Not trying to be rude either, have a nice day ❤
@Ana-lm6ud Huh, good to know! I was going off "this land confuses your mind" and "nothing is as it seems"
since it hasn't been stated yet. All the dead singers, their souls are singing their final thoughts. So despite dying, Polites still thought the world was an amazing place to greet with open arms
UGH AND THE MOM NOOOO it just gets sadder!
@@FlippMusic"It just gets sadder" that's the Theme of underworld saga!
@@FlippMusicif you want more sadness, in some translations the books, the mom saw Odysseus' boat get blown away by the winds when the bag was opened (since they were literslly within sight of Ithaca), thought her son died, and walked into the sea
Remember the oracle never says it's NOT him he says it's NO LONGER him. Someone else would never have BEEN him in the first place.
english is a trick language that means different things depending on what word is emphasize because one meaning yes you are correct another means there was a path where it was possible for him but due to something he did he no longer can
This is the interpretation that we have with knowledge of the future story, but another interpretation (arguably the one that Ody has which informs his later actions) is with the context of other timelines mentioned earlier in the song that the path they are on has changed the future from one where he survives to one were someone else does (and thus Ody commits to doing everything possible for that other future) as with most prophesy in stories, there are multiple interpretations and the true one isn't clear without more knowledge till after it comes to pass.
The fact that Odysseus didn't know his mom was dead before hearing her in the underworld absolutely kills me
Oh no... I didn't know this :(
@@FlippMusicits said she saw the ships in the distance when they were coming home (during the ocean saga) and she believed he died there. It’s implied she killed herself from the grief ):
Funny thing, in the original myth, he actually talks to her and gets some insight on how things are going back home as a result.
I wonder if the "danger motif" in his mom's song alludes to the danger waiting for him back home?
Way back during the Ocean Saga when the bag was opened, the ships were approaching Ithaca. They were almost home and Odysseus’ mother, Anticleia, was watching them sail in. Excited to see her son again, her hope was ripped from her as the winds knocked them off course and she watched them sail away. False reports eventually came to her that Odysseus had died in the aftermath, and out of grief she threw herself into the ocean to be reunited with him.
In the original story, Odysseus asks her how she died and she explains:
“No sharp-eyed Huntress showering arrows through the halls approached and brought me down with painless shafts, nor did some hateful illness strike me, that so often devastates the body, drains our limbs of power. No, it was my longing for you, my shining Odysseus - you and your quickness, you and your gentle ways - that tore away my life that had been sweet."
He proceeds to try hugging her three times, but cannot.
To add to the pain of this scene in Epic canon, the dead cannot see Odysseus and his crew. Every word they speak is simply their final thoughts before they died. The dead Crew, Polites, and Anticleia have no idea he’s there, which is why they never directly acknowledge his presence in the Underworld or speak to him.
Ow. My feelings :(
"This is so sad!" He says reacting to Polites.
Me cackling in the background knowing what's about to come next.
😬
“If he wanted us to understand it, a composer would make it so you would understand it”
If only life were that easy my friend, if only. 😔
Yeah I heard him say that and I just thought back to video with Jorge talking about No Longer You and the background voices when thunder saga first released.
Even now knowing what the choir says I have trouble understanding it 😂
He definitely purposely made it so you can’t understand them, and I think he did that cause you never truly understand prophesies until they pass. Even then it’s more of a guess. Which is why he revealed what they say after the songs they refer to came out.
@@willwatts6733 the last two lines ("find poseidon" "kill all the suitors for love") respectively refer to Vengeance and Ithaca sagas, so no, the songs they refer to haven't *all* come out yet, but we already know what happens
Interesting fact about the words in brackets: They ARE official lyrics/subtitles, though we only found out about them recently since Jorge kept them a secret when the Underworld Saga came out because they foreshadow events in the saga after it. Which is the Thunder Saga :)
As Mickey mouse said, SUPRISE TOOL TO HURT US LATER
The mom’s piano motif is Odysseus’ guitar motif but in a major chord 😭
I didnt even notice! Amazing
wasn't it also played in piano? I mean Ody's mom, if I'm not mistaken. I could be wrong
I'm not 100% sure about this, but to me Odysseus' guitar motif has some similarities to the danger is nearby motif, or maybe it's the other way around? I like to think it's because Odysseus is both dangerous and usually nearby danger lol and so his mom's motif sounds similar as well... also Polyphemus'. and a lot of the characters play around it 😅
@@pipedream23 Odysseus’ motif definitely holds the danger motif as well! Idk if it’s been officially confirmed but it’s for sure the same notes
Odysseus's mom is voiced by Jorge's mom btw
No WAY! 😢
@@FlippMusic Way 😊
@@FlippMusic yeah, it makes the song even more heartbreaking 💃🏻
I wonder if the theory Mortius mentioned, where his mom had to do retakes or something because the song made her so emotional or something like that, was ever confirmed or not. Apparently the whole idea of dying before Jorge really hit her when she was singing as another mother who died before her son.
No idea if that's true or not since Mortius mentioned not knowing if it was just someone's assumption or an actual fact, but it's still sad to think about the irl impact this could have had his mom doing this part.
Fun fact: the bells in the background of the Underworld play the same tune as the music box from The Horse and The Infant when Odysseus bursts into the nursery
OMG I never noticed that!!!
18:53 it has actually been revealed by Jorge that all those "chants" are meant to be chapters of the future. So as more songs release, he would reveal what each chant was saying. Since the Thunder Saga is out, he revealed in a short what the first few chants were saying (titles of the Thunder Saga). It's kinda like an easter egg that gets revealed as the story unfolds.
"This musical is taking over my mind." Same.
It does that.
I think the meaning of "no longer you" is not that it's not *literally* a different person, but rather Odysseus was radically changed by his experiences and is thus "no longer [himself]." Odysseus himself completely misses this interpretation, which is why he's so angry
At least at first. I think he realizes by the end. This is what leads to Monster. There's even a melodic connection between the end of No Longer You and the beginning of Monster.
Yep, at first he has no idea who the Prophet is talking about, but at the end he gets it and understands the Prophet is saying he needs to change to get home.
It's why he says during Monster "Do I need to change?" He knows the Prophet is telling him he HAS to if he wants to get home.
(Not so) fun fact: Ody's mom is voiced by Jay's mom, and she had a hard time getting through recording it because she was thinking about her son living in a world without her in it :((
That second part was actually just rumored and a fan theory(although it us likely). Mortius’ editor did comment on it saying it was unconfirmed.
@@IvanIsYda_Ah, so we don't know yet if it's been confirmed or is just someone's assumption.
@@WittySomething assumption as of now
18:45 that IS what they're saying in the back. this is a prophet after all, it wasnt spoiling since its just the name of the next songs. by the way, penelope didnt cheat on odysseus, she is loyal to him, it was implying that he will become a different person than he is now. which is also shown in the song ''monster'' that he DID change. this is also a throwback to the ''keep your friends close'' song where he said ''i'm still the same'' or smth like that
Danger motif is becoming a meme with people applying it to EVERYTHING
Its not the choir is specifically a god thing. Rather its that mortals/ non-gods choirs have to be diegetic. Meaning they need to exist and be actually there. Gods can make choirs exist whenever, they dont need an army singing for them.
Hence why Zues in the infant has alot of bg voices happening while Oddy needs his crew there to have bg voices.
Yeah, the choir is not supposed to be understandable until you know what it's saying, which is stuff for future saga's, so it is sorta spoilers
The Underworld song when his mother comes in hits me harder because my bro died while he was waiting for us to visit him at physio, we were literally 20 minutes away
The voices aren't tricks in this one, they are the actual spirit's last thoughts
Plus Hades is usually a pretty chill guy by Greek god standards, I only know of one case where he messed a guy up with no outside influence, and that's because the guy tried to steal his wife
Yeah, if you have to deal with any of the Greek gods, let it be Hades. He’s the most fair
when you turned the subtitles off when you thought you didnt think thats what they are singing at the end of no longer you, IT IS and its what is forthcoming in the future sagas. spooky stuff
Underworld Saga is such a heart wrenching saga
Jorge revealed what the spirit chorus said, and this will make sense once you hear the thunder saga
Siren Song
Scylla Throat
Mutiny
Thunderbolt
Dont they say poseidon in the end too?
Whirlpool, poisidon
Kill all the suitors for love
it is INDEED what they're saying, but yes, it is spoilers. it wasn't made to be understood clearly
Yeah, I personally wouldn't recommend this animatic to any first-time listeners for the song since it guides you a bit too much in the meaning of the lyrics. I prefer having it more open to interpretation where you wonder "what does he mean? what/who is this prophet seeing?"
The events of The Underworld are real, they are not just in Odysseus' head. He does encounter the souls of his crew, Polites, and his mom Anticlea. All of which are singing echos of the last thing they thought before their death. Fun fact, Anticlea is voiced by Jorge's real life mom.
Oof though. Pronunciation of Scylla right after hearing it.
The man who is "No Longer You" is Odysseus. But its older, Ruthless Odysseus. So in a way. No longer the Odysseus that left Ithica. War changes people
Those lyrics were 100% CORRECT, and it was supposed to be hard for us to make out because they are indeed spoilers for what is to come. And Jay never revealed them UNTIL the saga finally dropped. ~
The chorus is saying "Scylla" - pronounced Sih-lah. -- The background chorus is part of the prophecy that was said to Odysseus. The subtitles updated with only half of the chorus' words, with the other half being unknown / guessed upon by the fandom. ----- The story thus far: Odysseus left Circe's palace and went to the Underworld. Those that he encountered: His men that drowned via Poseidon, Polities, and his Mother: were all actual spirits. They are singing their final thoughts before they died. ---- Who he speaks to is the 'brilliant prophet' that Circe mentioned in the finale of the Circe Saga.
Happy
" my mom died while I was trying to get home" isn't happy. Lol
I think he means the notes being played / the kind of cords that are being presented are those typically happy. But with the context of what is going on it makes it all the more sad.
@@alloraptorgen2 ^^^ This. Happy sounding songs with sad lyrics are Peak Sad.
Think Fix You by Coldplay, or Lay Me Down by Sam Smith, or Words Fail by Dear Evan Hansen. All Happy background chord structures, but SAD EVERYTHING ELSE
No matter how many times I listen to Underworld, I can almost never get away without crying. It's a testament to Jorge's storytelling and the talent of the VAs that we can get so emotional over characters we either only had one song for, or none at all in the case of Ody's mom.
As for the Underworld itself, it actually happens and isn't an illusion or a hallucination. Remember that in the song right before this Circe says she can get them there, and she did. I would imagine if the danger motif is there, it's because of his warning to his men, that no matter who they find or what they hear to ignore it. The danger that's present is just the nature of the Underworld itself.
And yes, the blue guy in No Longer You is the Prophet that Circe told him about. He uh...even *calls* himself the Prophet Ody is looking for.
You'll understand the implications of "a man who is haunting, with a trail of bodies" and also "palace covered in red" in later Sagas :3. Same with "I see you on the brink of death". But yeah the Prophet is saying "you aren't the man who makes it home, the man who you will become will make it home".
Yes those chorus things you couldn't really make out ARE spoilers for Thunder Saga, so don't try to figure them out yet. Jorge has confirmed those four sets of lyrics, but he said there are more still hidden that he's not confirmed yet because THOSE are spoilers for more future Sagas.
8:30 Flip plays notes on piano
My brain: Fa-ther, God King
👀🤯👀🤯👀🤯
No Longer You is genuinely my favorite song in all of EPIC because of the way Tiresias enunciates his singing. Such an open throat and soft lyrics gets me every time
It's fun to see how you process your thoughts through beat boxing lol
The subtitles were in fact, correct and in fact, spoilers.
I hope you don't feel like you have to pay too much attention to the animatics. They're super cool, but they're also other people's interpretations of what's happening, and I much prefer hearing your thoughts on the original music rather than on the visuals. I'm not a musician in any way, so everything you pick out is something I've never noticed before, which I really appreciate.
Wet Hades Mentioned
The spirits Ody faces in the Underworld are actually the real spirits of the dead. And, according to Jorge, the spirits are singing the last thoughts they had when they died. The crew: "Why would you let the cyclops live when ruthlessness is mercy?" Polites: "Greet the world with open arms" (so even in death he still believed in the possibility of good in the world). Ody's Mother: "Waiting" (she died waiting for her son. And if we go back to the original story, she saw his boat when Poseidon attacked in Ruthlessness and thought Ody died, so she stepped into the water and drowned herself in grief). Fun fact, Jorge's mother sings that part. Also, the lyrics the choir's singing are accurate. They foreshadow what happens in the Thunder saga. Siren Song: the sirens. Scylla Throat: facing Scylla. Mutiny: Eury and Ody battling. Lightning bolt: Zeus entering the scene.
everything in the underworld was real, it was not his own mind
Simply put Tiresias was the most famous and strongest seer in Greek myths. And Circe was gracious enough to arrange a visit post mortem for Ody.
Watching you go through these hurts my soul but it’s also so funny bc Ik what happens 🥲🥲🥲
These background lyrics in the end, that are really hard to understand, are supposed to be hard to understand.
In a short Jorge did confirm the ones, that where written in the captions, but said, that he won't reveal the last ones, as that are spoilers. So those are hidden spoilers and when you know what they should sing, you can kinda hear it. But even then it's hard to understand sometimes. All on purpose.
i'm never going to forget the first time i heard odysseus' mom sing i had to pause the song and lay on the floor and cry
The "Waiting" part always really gets me because it's' Jorge and his MOM singing that part. ARGH MY HEART. T_T
with the No Longer You Song with the chorus Screaming
Oh yah, this completely takes over your mind. I went from being traumatized by the odyssey (the cyclops) in high school to absolutely loving and obsessing over this story!!
His mom waited over 10 years, then saw the storm that drove them away when they were almost to Ithaca. She thought he had perished, so in her grief she walked into the sea and ended it (in the Odyssey). Her singing in this song is what she was thinking as she died.
And Odysseus had no idea that she'd died while he was gone, much less only a little while before they even went into the Underworld where he saw her. Worse, is the idea that the shades/souls of those in the Underworld don't know he's there and can't hear him - Tiresias is a special case, and in the Odyssey, Odysseus actually had to make a sacrifice of blood for Tiresias' shade to drink so he could speak with Odysseus.
So in Greek Mythology there are a few notable Seers/Prophets that can see the future. This man in the underworld is Tiresias. The Oracle of Delphi is another figure, but you're right that she could also see the future.
My guess as to why Circe sent Odysseus specifically to Tiresias is that all other prophets would have required Odysseus to try to get back to land which was what the problem was in the first place so the only Prophet he could get to "safely" was in the Underworld
So in this musical, whenever a mortal has a background choir it is coming from real people in the story. Mortal background choirs are diagetic, so when Odysseus or his Second are singing with background vocals it is the Crew.
Some monsters and all gods, however, have the power to break the 4th wall basically. Supernatural creatures can summon their own choir which does not require them to have other characters physically present.
SLIGHT SPOILER PAST THIS
Not ALL monsters summon their own choir and there is a monster in the next saga thar harmonizes with themselves rather than with the nondiagetic choir.
So in this saga, all the background vocals are characters present in the story (however most of them are just ghosts)
Welcome to EPIC brainrot, the danger motif haunts us all.
The piano playing under Ody’s mom’a segment is a Major reflection of Odysseus’s own motif which has the danger motif baked into it, thus his mom’s motif also has the Danger motif baked in, just in Major key so… safety motif? Comfort motif. :3
I'm sure others have said this but yes the choir was spoilers and yes that was what they were saying.
fun fact, you also hear the baby's motif throughout the song, it's the bell chime sounding thing
Odysseus’ theme seems to be a minor(?) version of Anticlea’s theme(or I guess her theme is a major version of his? Mother-son connection, except his is on a guitar and hers is a piano?), when I heard you play it on the piano, like the similar notes that play when Odysseus is being a tactician
Ody feeling threatened in the underworld makes sense too for the danger motifs, hearing all the final thoughts of those who died, and then getting hit with the knowledge his mom died waiting for him 😢 painnn
Loving these reactions and having you hit us with the music theory 🎉
OHHHHHH I was just thinking it's weird the danger motif is so present in this saga since there's not rly an enemy god or monster and then i realised THE DANGER IS ODYSSEUS! Wherever Ody is, there's the danger motif, bc he's the monster, not any gods or monsters, you know the roster.
Very good analysis
Not the Wet Hades reference 😭
The danger motif in Underworld you're hearing is likely due to the inherent danger in wanting to be with the ones who have died in the Underworld I think.
The melody being played with Ody's mom is the same as the guitar as the guitar at the beginning of The Horse and The Infant, it's Odysseus' melody just how that certain piano melody is for Athena
what they were saying was actually true, it says siren song, scylla throat, and mutiny because thats what happens in the thunder saga
The whole point of the first song is that it ACTUALLY IS REAL and the dead only sing that last thing they were thinking
jorge’s actual mum sang odysseus’ mothers part 😭
The choir is absolutely singing those words, they will make sense in the future and they've all been confirmed by Jorge. Btw Scylla is pronounced silla. I suspect Jorge made them so ambiguous and difficult to understand to reward the ppl who are paying a lot of attention without spoiling the casual listener TOO much
The motif with Anticlea (Ody’s mum) is actually a major version of Odysseus’ theme! But I do think the Odysseus theme does contain the danger motif.
For reference, the Odysseus theme is the guitar thing from “The Horse and the Infant,” “Done For,” and “The Underworld.”
Scylla! The c is silent it’s pronounced Sil-ah. I can hear them say those words. I just think because you don’t have the content that you can’t hear them properly. I will say though all those words are spoilers for the next saga so don’t look too into it. Uh maybe just remember them when you get into the thunder saga
Anticlea’s (Odysseus’ mom) melody is actually Odysseus’ melody played in a major key on piano instead of minor on guitar.
You should watch a compilation of all the danger motifs, when your done
The subtitles on the chorus were really saying what the subtitles said, u ll understand it soon
None of those ghosts he saw were in his mind. They were the ghosts of the dead.
Now why those exact ghosts were there when Odysseus was in that part of the Underworld could be attributed to Hades or someone.
Odysseus literally blames Persephone for sending the spirits, Hades gets 0 mention.
The mom's theme is just Odysseus theme in major key and in piano instead of guitar, not a danger motif ✨💘 very heartbreaking
BTW I love your music analysis. It's nice that you try to follow along in the story but you don't have to. It's your decision but my two cents are that focusing on one while keeping mild attention on the other gives a higher quality reaction and/or analysis. Thank you for the video.
Fun fact. The woman who voices ody’s mother is Jorge’s mother.
WET HADES MENTIONED LETS GOOO LOL
ALSO I have one more fun fact: the dead spirits are saying the last thing they were thinking before they died.
Also, i didn't see anything in the first comments, and idk if anyone mentioned, but Odysseus' mom is song by Jorge's mom.
The subtitles were correct, we know the first four things the chorus says in this song, Jay confirmed it. Side note, are you asking for more myth knowledge?
It is him just he has changed as in his morals and the words that the spirits are saying are the right words it has been confirmed from my understanding
I love how in the first song you kept commenting on the danger motiv that wasn't actually there, but in the second song you missed the ACTUAL danger motiv.
I’m positive that you are confusing the Danger motif with a much more common one. The danger motif sounds like a heartbeat when everything is stripped away, but will sound more musical when it’s mixed with other motifs and themes.
Also yes, the lyrics from the chorus are actually correct but we don’t have all of them yet. They are also predictions that were intentionally made hard to catch what they are saying.
Oh also, everything the prophet saw is about the future. EVERYTHING. (That was missed by most of the animators but I won’t harp on them much as they didn’t know that at the time)
He doesn’t know his mom is dead when he sees her now by the way
And You missed a danger motif in No Longer You after he says he’s sailed through the toughest of times
And they are actually saying those words he made so you could barely understand stand it
"Is there a danger motif in here?" he asks in the middle of Oddyseus' mom singing her last thoughts. Maybe not the best time 😂
Cause you were confused humans and can also have a background choir, but the background choir for humans have to be physically with them, but the gods however, can summon their own choir so for Odysseus, the choir that singing with him is his crew 😊
all the choire words are added by gwendy after Jorge confimed some of the words that they are saying, so is kinda spoiler for the next saga especially, but all of that is true :)
"who is this?" he's the prophet with the answers you seek. Duh
btw, No Longer You is in 6/8s, and the ghost chorus actually do sing honest reveals that are hard to perceive for what comes next. Jorge has revealed 4/7 of the lines so far (via confirming vids that took swings and guessed) after Thunder Saga's release, but there's strong contenders for the last 3 lines. And you seem to have taken the wrong interpretation, the same interpretation Ody mistook at first. The answer is that the one who makes it home is "No Longer" him. As in it once was him. And that realization that he has to change (though without spoiling, probably again the wrong interpretation of why he wouldn't be himself) will lead to our next song. See ya for that one
Sorry for so many comments! But regarding the not paying attention to the animations thing what might be worth doing is having a casual listen through first where you just watch the animation and react to the plot as it emerges and then go back and analyse it in finer detail. There were a couple of times where you paused it JUST as a big change plotwise was about the emerge and the pausing kinda ruined the impact it was supposed to hold, kinda defanged it a bit. And I think doing it that way would help avoid that too.
You're funny my guy :)
I just called him E man lol 😅
haven't seen anybody mention this yet but in No Longer You everything Tiresias predicts is referencing both an event in Odysseus' past AND his future since he sees "past and future running free"