GeekZone like they look extremely menacing and would be pretty morale crushing if all of a sudden one of those flew overhead (if you weren’t use to it like the men of Gondor probably were)
Thats a common mistake considering that pterodactyl stood as the official name for many years before being corrected. Besides, we all knew what he meant.
"Evil cannot create, it can only corrupt or transform things that already exist." That is such great point, and interesting theme that runs throughout the stories of middle earth. I love this channel, you do such a great job with these videos! I commend your fantastic research skills. Keep doing what you're doing!
Kyle Ferguson what if it creates things to do evil? I'm the books many things are created not do evil (dragons for instance). But that was technically what Tolkien meant be creation so there is that. Although Good creates anything either in the whole of the books, they adapt stuff already created by Eru. So really creation lies with the Ainur and Eru only, you could say the Silmarils were created by good but they weren't, nothing is made by good. With the Silmarils it was an adaptation of things already adapted by the Ainur who adapted their 'created' stuff from the Great Music. They transform aspects of it into a physical form by they never created, Eru alone has the power to truly create.
Both of you are correct. But the variations of the phrases are brought up to illustrate the point, and to show that even the fell beasts had a history of goodness, and so we might think that it could still linger inside of them.
Actually 'fell beasts' isn't a name as such; 'fell' just means 'terrible'. 'fell beast' isn't a specific type of animal, it just means 'monstrous creature'. The creatures of Mirkwood are also described as 'fell beasts'.
Does anyone else feel that LOTR is the only fantasy world that makes the most sense, with the best lore behind its own world? Btw I’m not a huge LOTR fanatic I just really love the movies 😅
@No One yeah star wars has an amazing universe but most of it was built on by the EU, but Tolkien personally wrote out the lore for damn near everything
First off, all evil creatures in Arda are somehow the work of Morgoth. Whether by active work or passive corruption Morgoth is the founder. Orcs and Trolls are specifically mentioned as having been made (or corrupted) in mockery of the Elves and Ents respectively. Of all the Valar, Morgoth hated Manwë the most as He was chosen by Eru Ilúvatar to be King over Arda, the position that Morgoth claimed for himself. I find it almost suspicious that Morgoth never bred anything except the dragons, which were a very late started project, to contend against Manwë's vaunted Eagles for mastery of the Air. Maybe the fellbeasts were Morgoth's first and ultimately abandoned attempt. Being creations of Morgoth in the first place would make it easier for Sauron to find them for as Tolkien says "all creatures of evil were left open to the summons of Mordor."
Yes it's called the Silmarillion. It's the grand mythic history of Arda. Many people never read it because it reads more like the Bible or the Norse Sagas than the Lord of the Rings which is an epic romance.
From their description, it's likely that Tolkien saw them looking more like Ridley from Metroid, like they were animated in Rankin Bass' _Return of the King_ . Still, I prefer the movies' depiction - they looked so cool and frightening.
Well that's never ruled out I guess, but they seem a lot more birdlike than draconic, and the way their 'origin' is described, makes them sound like they were some small forgotten creature, which would be odd if they were an experiment (I'd expect them to be much larger/ferocious)
The head should be more like a giant vulture, with both beak and teeth, and extremely evil appearance. Overall, something like a reptilian version of a vulture, but with leathery wings. Movement on the ground with a sort of hopping motion. All of that is just my mental image from the books only, not the movie.
Given that Morgoth "created" Dragons, I always theorized before attempting to ally with Smaug, Sauron attempted to "create" his own winged terrors of equal power but all he could muster from shadow were these mounts for his Nazgul.
I enjoy learning more about Middle earth. Really enjoy the pictures used to illustrate the narrative. Origin, life spans and endings. Great work. Thank you for this series.
My theory: The Fell Beasts, by their description and what you think, could have multiple back stories. Starting with the Years of the Lamps (or was it the Two Trees? I forget!) when the world was in one piece before Utumno was breached- The Fell Beasts could have been some animals that was unknown and lived in unknown areas. In the First Age, the Fell Beasts could’ve been made in either two different ways: They could be corrupted Eagle, because Tolkien describes them as bird-like. When Morgoth and Sauron took the Elves, maybe the Eagles where either mocked like Ents to Trolls or corrupted like Elves to Orcs. Or, they could be some breed of Dragon that Morgoth made, a breed that could breath fire. After the War of Wrath and Beleriand sunk beneath the waves, the surviving Fell Beasts could’ve escaped and made new homes. Looking at the description “In long forgotten mountains.” This could mean that if they where at the War of Wrath and fled, they could’ve made homes in the Northern Misty Mountains. What I think, is that they came from the areas around Angmar. Since Cold-Drakes and other Dragons where found around there, it is possible that the Fell Beasts made their homes in the Mountains of Angmar, where discovered by the Witch-King during Arnors fall, and later taken to Mordor. I looked at Tolkien Gateway and saw some role-play interpretation of the Fell Beasts and it said that they where descendants of Cold-Drakes that made their home in the Mountains of Mirkwood, and the Necromancer found them and took them to Mordor. There are many other ideas, but I’m pretty sure that Tolkien wanted us to question a lot of things instead of giving every singe answer away.
I am obsessed with your channel. I have been a huge LOTR fan ever since I was a child and my best friends dad asked if I wanted to go see a new movie that just came out (Fellowship) and I asked what it was, and he just said "I promise you will like it." We went to the theater and after the opening prologue he looked over at me, and I at him, with my mouth wide open in excitement like I had experienced a religious revelation. Keep up the amazing work my friend!
Cheers Brandon, I think it's awesome that you have such a wonderful memory of your first encounter with Middle-Earth! Regarding the artwork, they're all just from Google Images, if I manage to find some specific link or person I try to list them in the video description :)
I had seen the cartoons for _The Hobbit_ and _The Return of the King_ by Rankin Bass on television - they also showed _Flight of Dragons_ and _The Wizards_ - and then I had bought The Hobbit from a book fair and I fell in love. It wasn't until one day while camping with a friend that his dad told me they were going to make _The Lord of the Rings_ into a movie that I actually ordered and read the rest of them. I'll never forget sitting up in my treefort reading about the Hobbits fleeing through the forest from the Black Riders - how they were in a great bowl with the Riders near the top and their cries all around them. I fell in love with the movies, when they came out. I'm glad so many people got to enjoy these stories, as without the films it's likely they wouldn't have reached many people.
So first of all I hope you enjoy this video! The audio might be a bit off at times, had a lot of issues with it (Probably recorded it all around 8 times!) though I should have solved most of them! Similar to last week's video, I'm trying to adjust the speed at which I speak, so if you feel it's too fast feel free to leave me some feedback! Just to avoid any confusion, some scenes in the movies that depict the Fellbeasts (Such as a Fellbeast attempting to grab Frodo in Osgiliath) are not mentioned as they do not occur in the books! As always subtitles are available, and I hope you all have a wonderful day! :)
Hey Geekzone ! thanks for the new vid ! I have a quick question for you if i may. When Morgoth gave his flesh to the wolf, did you mean litteraly ? Does that kind of litteral of figurative amputation grows back ? The ring of Sauron for instance clearly had a part of the power of Sauron to exist but it seems to be a recurent theme for Valars and Mayars that when they create, they "cut" a part of themselves so the thing / creatures grow. I know it's common wisdom to "divide and conquer" but it feels like unecessary weakening sometimes. So yeah i wanted you opinion on that if you have a bit of free time :D
Morgoth didn't give his flesh to the wolf, he gave it living flesh :) I assume it was from some prisoners that he had. However he did put some of his power into him, which would have permanently weakened Morgoth. In fact by the time the First Age ended, Morgoth was weaker than when he had first entered Arda. When they imbued things with power, it seems like it was an investment or a gamble of sorts. It would increase their chance of success, but if they were to fail, their fall would be more grevious! :)
so basically with every of those special servants slain, a part of morgoth himself was "killed"? Warning:Im going way of topic xD As I come to think about it, what happens to morgoths servants after death? if the orcs originated from corrupted quendi, wouldnt their spirits go to mandos? or maybe morgoth had power even over his dead servants? Maybe the souls of them were trapped in the dark pits of angband, waiting to be resurrected over and over to serve him? And, if that was the case, what happened after morgoths defeat? Though theres no example of him having power over the dead, rather of the opposite, as we know from his talk with hurin. But he had a part of all the powers of his fellow ainur, including mandos.
I wouldn't say a part exactly, but some of his power would be permanently lost after imbuing it into something :) Regarding Morgoth's servants, that's a very interesting question and one that troubled Tolkien greatly. For if orcs were indeed corrupted Elves or descendent of them, then surely they must have a spirit also, which would imply that they too would go to the Halls of Mandos. This is why after his writings in the Silmarillion, he came up with other solutions for the orc origin that allowed him to avoid the use of spirits. One such solution was saying that Orcs were mindless beasts that were empowered by the will of a Dark Lord :)
So he actually withdrew (or considered to withdraw) from the idea of the evil beeing unable to create? thats very interesting. But thats probably another thing in tolkiens imaginary world that will never be solved, unfortunatly. So he did not think beasts, or animals, had some form of spirit? That seems a little odd as lots of animals are portrayed as being sentient (mostly birds now that i think about it; and being sentient might not be equivalent of having a spirit) (Though it fits in a more christian point of view)
I've always thought of them as huge vultures, though them being large pterosaurs is mettle af. Like the description in the book, irl vultures are slightly larger ("greater") than eagles on average, and the fell beasts' description was very vulture-like: large, reeking, carrion fowl, naked, long necks, hovering above their enemies causing despair. In my head, morgoth took vultures and corrupted them to great creatures of darkness similar to how Manwë created the large eagles. That's my head canon.
As for the Nazgul (or as Smeagol put it "wraiths on wings") who patrolled the Dead Marshes, here's what I think happened in the book/movie: As we know according to the books, the Ring contains much of Sauron's spirit, and the Nazgul are like soul-bound servants to him. So they hear about every order their master gives, and will obey it without a moment's second thought. As we know in the scene, Frodo felt the urge from the Ring to put it on - which was the seductive voice of Sauron. The closer it got to Frodo, the more the Nazgul got accurate in its search. Not just that, Smeagol himself - who knew the Ring well - stated the following: "They are calling for it, they are calling for the Preciousss." Which I think indicates that the Nazgul felt something drawing it and it called to the Ring because of it. It was thanks to Sam that Frodo let go of the Ring, and thus the voice to the Nazgul was lost. As we can see in that scene, the Nazgul flies away and higher up again after that. So in nutshell of why this Nazgul swooped down so accurately around Frodo, Sam and Smeagol; it felt the presence of the Ring and, as Gandalf also once mentioned, the servants of Sauron (aka the Nazgul) are drawn to its power.
@ 3:20 I don't think it was scouting the Dagorlad. Rather, I think the rider sensed the ring there and was drawn to it. I think the text intimates this, without overtly expressing it. Furthermore, I think because of the numerous close encounters Frodo had with Nazgul (where the Nazgul were unaware of him), that they may have dismissed some of these 'feelings' (of being close to the ring) as false alarms. I think that the Nazgul who investigated the Dagorlad above Frodo et al., must have ultimately decided that this too was a false alarm and continued about his master's business.
Nothing more awesomer than a Geekzone video right when I get home from school!!!! :) Anyway lived this video Geek the Fell beasts of Mordor has always facanatied me and are some of my most favorite creatures in the Legendarium and thanks so much for explaining them so finely anyway loved this video and can't wait for the next one!!!! :)
I think you researched well and am supporting your theory. I would like to add though, that Sauron might well had wished to mimic the great eagles just as Morgoth copied ents by creating trolls. So i support a merge of your theory with the second mentioned one. Cheers
I’d like to think that maybe the dead marshes nazgul was taking his replacement mount for a short ride ahead of the orc scouts at Cirith ungol to have a once over sweep of the area and get his harness adjusted and used to the new mount. Or he could have just had a hunch, or been on a routine like you said.
So happy I discovered your channel. Been a huge fan of the series and your videos just make me appreciate Tolkien's imagination even more. Thanks for the work you do, you've got a loyal fan here!
"A creature of an older world maybe it was, whose kind, lingering in forgotten mountains cold beneath the Moon, outstayed their day, and in hideous eyrie bred this last untimely brood, apt to evil. And the Dark Lord took it, and nursed it with fell meats, until it grew beyond the measure of all other things that fly; and he gave it to his servant to be his steed."
The Fellbeasts are very similar to wyverns. Wyverns are flying reptiles from folklore that are often mistaken for dragons, but are more animalistic in nature, have two legs and wings instead of four legs and wings, and lack the ability to breathe fire. Instead, they're often poisonous. They're used as mounts by orcs in many fantasy franchises.
One thing that came into my head during this video and it's interesting to think about, is that everything has its corrupted counter part, Elves / orcs, Istari / Nazgul, Eagles / fellbeasts, and even maybe land based such as Gondor / Mordor. Think you could expand on this or tell me if I'm chatting waffle
Plz plz talk about the Stone Giants at the Mountain Pass. In The Hobbit movie of the Thunder Battle Scene. I wanna know about the lore and origin about those legendary Giants. Who were they and what was their thoughts from Tolkien?
@@ghostlightx9005 I always took them for an allusion to the storm, but upon my last read it _does_ state that "Bilbo could hear their stony voices guffawing" or something along those lines, implying they were actual beings. Likely, Maiar or Ainur that still inhabited the area. The mountain Caradhras was said to be a living thing. Tolkien had a lot of odd beings in his tales that are implied to be remnants of ancient times, those that wandered out of Beleriand and crept to isolated parts of the world.
Another awesome video! You covered, extremely thoroughly and satisfactorily the 2 of the 3 things I was most interested in. Maybe the 3rd also, but I haven't come across that video. 1:watcher in the water, 2:fell beasts, 3:the three headed watcher at the gates(the alarm statue thing guarding the tower frodo was kept it after stung by shelob, and taken by orcs.)Actually, I'm sure there are at least a couple more, I'm just not thinking of at the moment lol.
personal theory: with the failure of smaug the dragon sauron still admired the strength of dragons and took drakes and corrupted them. the drakes lost the great scales and firey breath but became large creatures cloaked in an aura of fear and dread. the perfect mounts for the ring wraiths.
A little off topic, but I was wondering if anyone has any information on why Peter Jackson scrapped the "bridge movie." He was originally supposed to make one or two hobbit movies followed by a movie that chronicles the events during the 60 years that lead up to LOTR. I would love to see that movie. Perhaps there is still a slim chance it gets made? Perhaps geekzone can make a video describing the events during that time? That would be great.
2 Hobbit movies and a bridge movie would have been perfect. But they went for the blockbuster trilogy $$$. Jackson makes excuses about the Hobbit being out of his control, but the whole thing reeks of bad ego and greed. In LOTR he curated Tolkien's world, in Hobbit he thought he was good enough to write Tolkien. The result is like a Harry Potter movie.
I think the Nazgul were probably searching the Dead Marshes as Frodo and Sam crossed because of something Aragorn mentioned. To paraphrase, they are drawn by the power of the One Ring, and can probably sense its general location as the Ring calls out to its master.
Thanks for your great research and beautiful videos! Loved this one! I think the fell beasts may have been creatures like bats that Melkor/Morgoth found and corrupted within Utummno and Angband. These fell beasts may have survived the War of Wrath like some Dragons and the Balrog. Sauron may have learned of their hiding places with the Palentir stones and gathered them to be his dark wing weapons!
Thanks Scott! Sauron might have also known about them since he was Morgoth's lieutenant, and so would have a deep understanding of Morgoth's works and deeds :)
I agree with your theory on the origin of these creatures. They are nothing like eagles, & as you said, evil can't create, just alter or corrupt. We obviously don't know what creatures they originally were, but after Morgoth & then Sauron were done with them they were so much different that it didn't matter.
Tolkein did compare the Fell Beasts to Pteradactyls after it was brought to his attention. I'd like to see Fell Beasts that resemble Azhdarchid Pterosaurs, the biggest of which were as tall as Giraffes and could have preyed on Humans.
Perhaps the Nazgul above the Dead Marhes felt the power of the Ring so he checked, or something. He was sent towards Isengard pollibly to pick up the Ring, and it was confused that how he could feel the Ring so close, when it is so far. Or something like that I guess
Yeah this makes perfect sense. Also, in the Silmarillion it says that Morgoth hid is corrupted beasts in Utumno, and were issued forth in the battle of the powers. As Peter Jackson depicted them as dragons in the films, it could also be probable that these are some breed of dragon that Morgoth bred, probably related to Ancalagon the Black, as they look it bit like how he was described. Again, these beasts survived as when the Valar overthrew Morgoth, many of his beasts escaped, probably including these ones, and hid in the ruins of Utumno, the remainders of the Iron Mountains (such as the Mts. of Angmar or the Grey Mountains), or, as described, in some eyries hidden in the Misty Mountains. Still kinda works with what you said, and is definitely better than the corrupt eagles theory! (Could you please reply cos I wanna know if you agree)
You should do a video about the history of Ents and entwives and all info about them. I can see a lot of people taking an interest in that cause I sure did haha
Hey, loved the video as always and always will. I wanted to ask you if you could do a video about Rovanion. I really want to learn more about it and what factions and creatures live in in. Keep up the great work 👍🏻.
Cheers Frodo! I'll be covering Rhovanion for sure in the future, though since it's such a large area it'll probably be broken down into smaller topics :)
I wonder if dragons and fell beasts started off being the same species. Some reptilian creature like a Kodomo dragon in remote parts of Middle-Earth that were corrupted by the dark forces. Morgoth being incredibly powerful transformed some into dragons, while Sauron, being not quite as powerful, was only able to conjure up Fell Beasts (ie transform). It is curious that dragons seemed to have a varied appearance and size, but Fell Beasts are all the same size and shape (to my knowledge).
Some very plausible explanations and I quite like it! Another possibility is that the "fell beasts" are in fact a pre-existing species that Morgoth first used as hosts from which to breed dragons, and that only a remnant of this species were left at the time of the Third Age, in some remote area in the west or north, and possibly that these remaining fell beasts were either just captured and used by Sauron in their extant form, or also twisted by his arts, but given his lesser power and the fact that his skills and arts were more suited towards crafting of materials could not yield creatures anywhere near as mighty as the dragons. We know that there were creatures in Middle Earth that came there of their own accord (and some which may even have been a sort of "byproduct of creation") and that some were evil or at least hostile towards other living things without Morgoth's influence - the creatures that dwelled far below Moria below the roots of the Misty Mountains for instance which were there even before Morgoth came to Middle Earth. These may perhaps also have been creatures such as this, and may have been evil, or perhaps just vile and dreadful but with no real intentional malice. Just some thoughts
Cool vids to listen to, and good pics with it. As to the Nazgul's beasts, I could see them coming from the Misty Mountains, and Sauron finding them when he was hanging out in Dol Goldur. After all, there were trolls and ice giants in the Misty's, too. But on the other hand, it seems like the Eagles of the Misty Mountains would have hunted them out, and the elves known about them probably. So then I wonder if instead Tolkien meant them to come from farther north, in the broken lands where Morgoth was defeated at the end of the 1st Age, or the northern Misty's, where Angmar is, the home of the witch-king Lord of the Nazgul. That seems like a more likely place, since so few elves or dwarves are up there, just Rangers. And after all, Aragorn says that Rangers keep foul beasts and servants of evil from coming south, so that could be one of the types of beasts he referred to.
The amount of research you put in these videos is very impressing. I was imediately captivated by your way of telling stories and i think the vast majority of us, your viewers, are very grateful for these amazing tales and theories that you produce. Thank you and keep up the good work! 👏🏻 P.s: i think that it would be nice if we got to know you better, maybe through a q&a video?
Cheers Andrea! I appreciate it! :) I'd like to do a Q and A video in the future, so if there are any questions you'd like to ask, feel free to leave them as a youtube comment, or contact me on twitter/facebook, and I'll include them in that video! :)
They do resemble pterodactyls, but I think Tolkien created them as a fantasy-world version of German air craft, which in WWI were mostly used for reconaissance missions. He may have also borrowed the idea of the "night gaunt" from another great fantasy writer, H.P. Lovecraft!
I would pay 100s of dollars to listen to a lord of the rings on tape with your voice narrated over. The one Voice to rule them all, one voice to find them, one voice to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
So much was missing from the 6 movies. I hope if they had been honest than it wud have been 9 part series. You are awsome. Keep it up. These stories are thrillers in themselves. Awsome!!!!
But an intelligent dragon is a much, much fiercer ally to have. Sauron even wanted his own dragon in Smaug, i think if he had the opportunity to breed dragons he would of just had them be dragons
New subscriber here. Lord of the Rings geek, mainly elves, but i just love it. my first time seeing lord of the rings was return of the king and have to admit, i was a little freaked out and actually thought it was all real (haha) until i watched the behind the scenes features and that it was all just actors, and an amazing crew who made this world of Middle-Earth so believable and real.
Hey Adria welcome to the fellowship! :) Both the CGI and make up in the Lord of the Rings trilogy were awesome, I still remember watching the Return of the King at the movies as a kid and closing my eyes during the paths of the dead!
Thanks! they were!!! The fellowship of The Ring is my fave. I remember watching the scene with Deagol and Smeagol and got a little freaked out when they got into that fight over the ring and Smeagol suffocated his friend, yeah.....i was a little freaked out. the fight sequence looks so real.
Is there any way you could do a video on the Ents and Entwives? I've always found them fascinating and am curious about your take on their ultimate fates. Keep up the great content!
Impressed, so accustomed to 'lore videos' that take liberties, and are not founded in the textures, that I tend to avoid them. This was a well researched and restrained, while handling theories with awarness, well done indeed.
Thanks mate, I do my best to only use the source material and am quite cautious about speculation (I always state that it is my own theory beforehand). That way I avoid any misconceptions as best as I can
Appriciated, for several years been devoted to, at forums, share what Tolkien wrote on topics (sometimes in contradiction, hehe), to enlighten in a world where misconceptions (from films, games or vauge memories) are ripe. Appriciate to find a channel that do so too, to a wide audience. Just listened to your Balrog video, you earned another subscriber ^^ Cheers
Some of my favorite parts from the books is when Tolkien is describing the sort of primordial creatures. Lost to time and memory. Sorry if this guy says it too, but J.R.R. isn't even really sure how Sauron got them. Just kind of eludes to a possible forgotten labyrinth or mountain where a single brood might have survived. Same thing with the creatures of Moriah. Just adds an awesome realness and kind of Sci fi aspect to the world.
Ive waited for this! thx you made it! 4:37 OMG thats so awesome! 6:15 that ones also pretty amazing Hm, maybe the ancestors or creatures that were related to them could even have been the origin of dragons, at least the winged ones? I know the first drakes were wingless, but there had to be like a "source material", and mayb morgoth crossbred some of these beasts, some were winged, some not, and later imbued them with his power to create real dragons? If they were copies, then imo sauron did not try to copy eagles, rather the works of his master, dragons
Love your videos. I agree with your suspicion that they were probably greater than the eagles in size considering the quotation you showed later. However, I would suggest that the lingered in the mountains in the far, far north. Perhaps in the region that had once been the location of Utumno. The Valar didn't completely clean that area out when they chained Melkor, as it says in the Silmarillion. Had they been living in the Misty Mountains then it seems all but impossible that they could have remained unknown for 6000+ years. Also, Sauron probably didn't need to put his power into them for them to become what they did because, unlike Carcaroth who was an unparalleled creature, these were not really at the same level: one killed by an arrow and another with a sword strike.
I just stumbled upon this channel yesterday, subbed to it, and now I've watched all of your videos in one day. Really enjoying this quality content of yours. May I ask you, where you are from? That accent is really hard to identify. Anyway, greetings from Germany!
I could listen to your beautiful Maltese voice for hours. But harken now, as I recount the tale of Bargozím, the Fell Cockroach, foul pet caressed by Morgoth, ancient spawn sprung unwished-for from the tainted loins of Ungoliant to trouble the kitchens of Man.
Great video as usual. One thing that puzzles me about Tolkien's descriptions of some of the creatures that populate the legendarium. It would seem odd for a beast or creature to be predisposed to be "evil" per se. As a beast, even an intelligent beast, unlike the "higher order" of beings, do not generally have a moral and ethical center, or defined code by which they can have a predilection towards good or evil, in the classical sense. Most creatures/beasts/animals are not like humankind in that sense. Now one animal can certainly be more violent or more aggressive than another. An animal can certainly be anthropomorphed and considered characteristics like "sly" or "sneaky" (like a Fox or certain Monkeys), but even that is really assigning a humanistic trait to them. They are not literally "sneaky" in the terms that a human would be that is doing something behind someone's back, an animal simply develops the instincts of survival that can include how to steal food when a larger, stronger animal or prey is not looking. So even when the books describe Carcharoth as being "cunning" when he was slinking through Doriath, I don't think that is the same as human cunning. Now an animal can certainly be USED for evil, so like in our reality, when a Pit Bull dog is trained to be aggressive and mean, and then taken by an evil doer, like a drug kingpin, and used to attack the enemies, that is the animal being used for evil, but the animal itself is not again "evil" from a moral sense. So even with these Fellbeast, it would be odd for them to be classified as "evil" as opposed to them being violent, aggressive, attacking type of creatures, that are used by Sauron's forces for evil purposes. Now the one "creature" in MiddleEarth that could be classified as morally evil in a sense are likely Dragons, but in looking at Dragons and their history, their intelligence, even their speech ability, they are certainly not in any way to be considered an Animal, even by Middle Earth terms. They are a higher order creature that has cognition and intellect, no different than a Balrog, being a Maia that is stuck in a permanent evil form, is a "Creature" so to speak now, but not an animal.
Great video, but one nitpick and pet peeve: it isn't one word, it's two, fell beast, and it isn't an actual name for the creature, it's just a description used in the books - a creature that is fell, i.e., deadly, terrifying. "Fell" is an archaic word (etymologically unrelated to the past tense of "fall") Tolkien used a number of times in his fiction. Saying they were generally called fellbeasts is like seeing a war movie where the characters see an enemy tank and say "that is one scary mother" and saying "this model of tank was referred to as a 'scarymother' by American forces." Using "fell beast" as a name for them doesn't even comes from the movies, it comes from marketing materials, toys, and video games. I guess they needed something to put on the blister pack for the action figure and "Nazgul's winged mount" didn;t have the same ring to it.
Have you done a book vs movies comparison set yet? Im new to this channel and working my way through and those comparisons through your eyes would be most welcome because you are a scholar of Tolkiens middle earth and I am a worshipper! Keep it up! ❤️. You put into words how my my mind thinks. Amazing!
It's too bad they didn't make an appearance in the movies as often as they did in the book. That way I feel like it would be a lot easier for people to understand why the Eagles couldn't just fly The Fellowship to Mordor. Nonetheless the Fell Beasts are very fascinating, I love how they are interpreted on the movie.
I would think that Sauron might have found the basic creature in either the Grey Mountains, possibly near the Withered Heath or the far westerly end near Carn Dum.
I think the scouting of the dead marshes was routine sense it's a terrain where footsoldiers such as orks have a hard time traversing, yet we KNOW that sauron is obsessed with efficency and perfections, as he continously stacked advantage over advantage during the war of the ring, using diplomacy, tricks, ambushes, overwhelming numbers, and collecting as much weapons, beast, and warrior as phisically possible to always enshure long term victory. It would make sense that he would send a nazgul over the marshes to avoid enemy spies sneaking to the black gate so that his movements around the black gate would be unobserved, and his enemies would find out much later when he moves his armies from that direction. Now we know that the rignwraiths are Sauron's strongest soldiers, and "they may be better used elsewhere" they are also the only ones able to efficently patrol the hard to cross terrains of the marshes.
As Saruman stated "the orcs were once elves but were corrupted by the darkness" I feel that is a likely possibility for the fell beasts. An ancient race of flying creatures that had become long forgotten until Sauron discovered them, afterwards over time turned them into the fierce flying creatures used by Sauron's most loyal servants. Like Tolkien stated, evil cannot create but can corrupt something that already exists which was likely what happened with the fell beasts.
OMG the thing that the Fell-Beast were ancient beings corrupted by Morgoth and Sauron goes beyond any question at this time, but the thing they lingered in a unknown dangerous part of the Misty Mountains were Sauron found them, seems to recall to me the ancient fear for Caradhras surrounds by the Dwarves (as Gimli said it was dangerous before the Orcs arrived there) and also Celebrian, Elrond´s wife and Arwen´s mother, was attacked there at it seemed it was a pretty harsh experience, that made her to leave Middle Earth to Valinor and never return, which somehow seems something more drastic than some nasty orcs were there!!. Could be it related to the Fell-Beast origins too?
I thought the Misty Mountains were created by Morgoth to disrupt the journeys of the elves as they travelled west across middle earth after they had awoken
I believe it served that purpose also. The exact quote is: "But the mountains were the Hithaeglir, the Towers of Mist upon the borders of Eriador; they they were taller and more terrible in those days, and were reared by Morgoth to hinder the riding of Orome."
I don't think anyone said this yet, but it has to be said: When you said "Pterodactyl" you showed a "Pteranodon" and both belong to the Pterosaurs which are not dinosaurs. Interestingly, since at least the felbeast of the Witch King was described as having some feathers according to my sources it arguably could have been derived from a dinosaur. There is this newly discovered small dinosaur called Yi Qi which has evidence of having wings made out of skin instead of feathers, but it also has feathers. The body plan fits the felbeasts as well and the only difference is size, longer neck and a beak and all of this could easily be given in LOTR by Sauron or maybe Melkor in the Simarillion.
Well done! This is quite thorough and probable in Tolkien’s greater works if you went from Simarillion to the beginning of the 4th age i.e time of men. Just as in many legends, and in Melkor’s works to enslave and corrupt, these animals were likely something lizard like, subterranean.
Great discussion of one of the most mysterious creatures in Tolkien’s legendarium. I love Tolkien’s description of these creatures being the last remnants of some type of nearly extinct species like a pterodactyl or something.
That’s a tough one because there is no mention of dinosaurs or anything like that in the Ainulindale so as cool as it sounds (to me anyway) to think of them as some kind of pterodactyl like creatures that had almost gone extinct but were still hanging on in some remote mountains where Sauron discovered them, it just doesn’t really fit in the story. More than likely they were one of the monsters of Melkor that we read about in the Valaquenta that roamed the dark regions of Middle Earth during the ages before the awakening of the Elves, and that Orome hunted. In fact, it even uses the term “fell beasts” in the description of Orome: “He is a hunter of monsters and fell beasts, and he delights in horses and in hounds”. I know that “fell beasts” could describe any type of evil creature but it’s interesting that the exact same phrase is also used to describe the winged steeds of the Nazgul.
I love the design of them in the films
Agreed, they look awesome!
GeekZone like they look extremely menacing and would be pretty morale crushing if all of a sudden one of those flew overhead (if you weren’t use to it like the men of Gondor probably were)
+Darth Star Killer For sure, though still not as terrifying as a dragon! :)
GeekZone you called pterosaurs pterodactyls an incorrect term for the group.
Thats a common mistake considering that pterodactyl stood as the official name for many years before being corrected. Besides, we all knew what he meant.
why do the evil guys always have the coolest shit Like balrogs, dragons, giant wolves and these beasts >:(
Well, cuz the good guys have Gandalf
@keller blair Though more neutral: Beorn, Ents (no one ever loves the Ents... qq). Could even argue Gollum is meant to be on this list.
Tolkien is wise therefore he shows the good characters as having hidden power. Bad guys go out of their way to look scary.
because they want to leave a "good" impression .... :-)
werewolves, shelob the giant spider and oliphaunts
"Evil cannot create, it can only corrupt or transform things that already exist." That is such great point, and interesting theme that runs throughout the stories of middle earth. I love this channel, you do such a great job with these videos! I commend your fantastic research skills. Keep doing what you're doing!
Cheers Kyle! :)
Kyle Ferguson what if it creates things to do evil? I'm the books many things are created not do evil (dragons for instance). But that was technically what Tolkien meant be creation so there is that. Although Good creates anything either in the whole of the books, they adapt stuff already created by Eru. So really creation lies with the Ainur and Eru only, you could say the Silmarils were created by good but they weren't, nothing is made by good. With the Silmarils it was an adaptation of things already adapted by the Ainur who adapted their 'created' stuff from the Great Music. They transform aspects of it into a physical form by they never created, Eru alone has the power to truly create.
Kyle Ferguson what about morgoth though? he didn't create or twist it from creation to make evil things. ?
Both of you are correct. But the variations of the phrases are brought up to illustrate the point, and to show that even the fell beasts had a history of goodness, and so we might think that it could still linger inside of them.
yes but trolls were created to copy ents werent they?
Actually 'fell beasts' isn't a name as such; 'fell' just means 'terrible'. 'fell beast' isn't a specific type of animal, it just means 'monstrous creature'. The creatures of Mirkwood are also described as 'fell beasts'.
No fell beasts were their names
true and thanks
Does anyone else feel that LOTR is the only fantasy world that makes the most sense, with the best lore behind its own world?
Btw I’m not a huge LOTR fanatic I just really love the movies 😅
bruh read the books. let listen to them on audio books
@No One only if you count eu
@No One yeah star wars has an amazing universe but most of it was built on by the EU, but Tolkien personally wrote out the lore for damn near everything
@No One gollum wrote star wars after he fell into mt doom
Tolkein did dedicate the rest of his whole life to it.
First off, all evil creatures in Arda are somehow the work of Morgoth. Whether by active work or passive corruption Morgoth is the founder. Orcs and Trolls are specifically mentioned as having been made (or corrupted) in mockery of the Elves and Ents respectively. Of all the Valar, Morgoth hated Manwë the most as He was chosen by Eru Ilúvatar to be King over Arda, the position that Morgoth claimed for himself. I find it almost suspicious that Morgoth never bred anything except the dragons, which were a very late started project, to contend against Manwë's vaunted Eagles for mastery of the Air. Maybe the fellbeasts were Morgoth's first and ultimately abandoned attempt. Being creations of Morgoth in the first place would make it easier for Sauron to find them for as Tolkien says "all creatures of evil were left open to the summons of Mordor."
It's possible for sure, it could also explain how Sauron knew about their existance :)
How the hell do you know all that? Is there some kind of book that details all that back mythology?
GeekZone thanks 👌
Yes it's called the Silmarillion. It's the grand mythic history of Arda. Many people never read it because it reads more like the Bible or the Norse Sagas than the Lord of the Rings which is an epic romance.
AJ Jones I like to think that, like the one possibility that certain orcs were elves corrupted by Morgoth, and fell beasts were corrupted eagles
Fellbeasts were basically lesser dragons or wyverns twisted by Morgoth.
I thought they did a magnificent job in the movies of depicting the ring wraiths flyingbmounts.
So glad you did this you tube vid.
Cheers Chris!! :)
From their description, it's likely that Tolkien saw them looking more like Ridley from Metroid, like they were animated in Rankin Bass' _Return of the King_ . Still, I prefer the movies' depiction - they looked so cool and frightening.
I thought that they kinda looked like flying ells in the movies
Golum, "wraiths with wings !!"
I thought they were like prototype dragons from morgoth. Like a subrace
Well that's never ruled out I guess, but they seem a lot more birdlike than draconic, and the way their 'origin' is described, makes them sound like they were some small forgotten creature, which would be odd if they were an experiment (I'd expect them to be much larger/ferocious)
The head should be more like a giant vulture, with both beak and teeth, and extremely evil appearance. Overall, something like a reptilian version of a vulture, but with leathery wings. Movement on the ground with a sort of hopping motion. All of that is just my mental image from the books only, not the movie.
@@jessrevill1852 indeed. I always imagined them that way. Vulture but with bat wings
Yeah I always thought they were like wyverns or something
I think everyone's half right my theory was always that it was a middle step on the way to making dragons by Morgoth
Given that Morgoth "created" Dragons, I always theorized before attempting to ally with Smaug, Sauron attempted to "create" his own winged terrors of equal power but all he could muster from shadow were these mounts for his Nazgul.
Despite not being canon, I think the film adaptations of the fell Beast were fantastic.
They did their job well... which was to be goddamn terrifying.
I enjoy learning more about Middle earth. Really enjoy the pictures used to illustrate the narrative. Origin, life spans and endings. Great work. Thank you for this series.
My theory: The Fell Beasts, by their description and what you think, could have multiple back stories. Starting with the Years of the Lamps (or was it the Two Trees? I forget!) when the world was in one piece before Utumno was breached- The Fell Beasts could have been some animals that was unknown and lived in unknown areas. In the First Age, the Fell Beasts could’ve been made in either two different ways: They could be corrupted Eagle, because Tolkien describes them as bird-like. When Morgoth and Sauron took the Elves, maybe the Eagles where either mocked like Ents to Trolls or corrupted like Elves to Orcs. Or, they could be some breed of Dragon that Morgoth made, a breed that could breath fire. After the War of Wrath and Beleriand sunk beneath the waves, the surviving Fell Beasts could’ve escaped and made new homes. Looking at the description “In long forgotten mountains.” This could mean that if they where at the War of Wrath and fled, they could’ve made homes in the Northern Misty Mountains. What I think, is that they came from the areas around Angmar. Since Cold-Drakes and other Dragons where found around there, it is possible that the Fell Beasts made their homes in the Mountains of Angmar, where discovered by the Witch-King during Arnors fall, and later taken to Mordor. I looked at Tolkien Gateway and saw some role-play interpretation of the Fell Beasts and it said that they where descendants of Cold-Drakes that made their home in the Mountains of Mirkwood, and the Necromancer found them and took them to Mordor. There are many other ideas, but I’m pretty sure that Tolkien wanted us to question a lot of things instead of giving every singe answer away.
I am obsessed with your channel. I have been a huge LOTR fan ever since I was a child and my best friends dad asked if I wanted to go see a new movie that just came out (Fellowship) and I asked what it was, and he just said "I promise you will like it." We went to the theater and after the opening prologue he looked over at me, and I at him, with my mouth wide open in excitement like I had experienced a religious revelation. Keep up the amazing work my friend!
Also, I have no idea how you find such great artwork but I am beyond impressed with your ability to source these images!
Cheers Brandon, I think it's awesome that you have such a wonderful memory of your first encounter with Middle-Earth! Regarding the artwork, they're all just from Google Images, if I manage to find some specific link or person I try to list them in the video description :)
GeekZone yes agreed good sir.
I'm in that same boat too. same back story about growing up. yo yo :)
I had seen the cartoons for _The Hobbit_ and _The Return of the King_ by Rankin Bass on television - they also showed _Flight of Dragons_ and _The Wizards_ - and then I had bought The Hobbit from a book fair and I fell in love. It wasn't until one day while camping with a friend that his dad told me they were going to make _The Lord of the Rings_ into a movie that I actually ordered and read the rest of them. I'll never forget sitting up in my treefort reading about the Hobbits fleeing through the forest from the Black Riders - how they were in a great bowl with the Riders near the top and their cries all around them.
I fell in love with the movies, when they came out. I'm glad so many people got to enjoy these stories, as without the films it's likely they wouldn't have reached many people.
So first of all I hope you enjoy this video! The audio might be a bit off at times, had a lot of issues with it (Probably recorded it all around 8 times!) though I should have solved most of them! Similar to last week's video, I'm trying to adjust the speed at which I speak, so if you feel it's too fast feel free to leave me some feedback! Just to avoid any confusion, some scenes in the movies that depict the Fellbeasts (Such as a Fellbeast attempting to grab Frodo in Osgiliath) are not mentioned as they do not occur in the books!
As always subtitles are available, and I hope you all have a wonderful day! :)
Hey Geekzone ! thanks for the new vid !
I have a quick question for you if i may.
When Morgoth gave his flesh to the wolf, did you mean litteraly ? Does that kind of litteral of figurative amputation grows back ? The ring of Sauron for instance clearly had a part of the power of Sauron to exist but it seems to be a recurent theme for Valars and Mayars that when they create, they "cut" a part of themselves so the thing / creatures grow.
I know it's common wisdom to "divide and conquer" but it feels like unecessary weakening sometimes.
So yeah i wanted you opinion on that if you have a bit of free time :D
Morgoth didn't give his flesh to the wolf, he gave it living flesh :) I assume it was from some prisoners that he had. However he did put some of his power into him, which would have permanently weakened Morgoth. In fact by the time the First Age ended, Morgoth was weaker than when he had first entered Arda. When they imbued things with power, it seems like it was an investment or a gamble of sorts. It would increase their chance of success, but if they were to fail, their fall would be more grevious! :)
so basically with every of those special servants slain, a part of morgoth himself was "killed"?
Warning:Im going way of topic xD
As I come to think about it, what happens to morgoths servants after death? if the orcs originated from corrupted quendi, wouldnt their spirits go to mandos? or maybe morgoth had power even over his dead servants? Maybe the souls of them were trapped in the dark pits of angband, waiting to be resurrected over and over to serve him? And, if that was the case, what happened after morgoths defeat? Though theres no example of him having power over the dead, rather of the opposite, as we know from his talk with hurin. But he had a part of all the powers of his fellow ainur, including mandos.
I wouldn't say a part exactly, but some of his power would be permanently lost after imbuing it into something :) Regarding Morgoth's servants, that's a very interesting question and one that troubled Tolkien greatly. For if orcs were indeed corrupted Elves or descendent of them, then surely they must have a spirit also, which would imply that they too would go to the Halls of Mandos. This is why after his writings in the Silmarillion, he came up with other solutions for the orc origin that allowed him to avoid the use of spirits. One such solution was saying that Orcs were mindless beasts that were empowered by the will of a Dark Lord :)
So he actually withdrew (or considered to withdraw) from the idea of the evil beeing unable to create? thats very interesting. But thats probably another thing in tolkiens imaginary world that will never be solved, unfortunatly.
So he did not think beasts, or animals, had some form of spirit? That seems a little odd as lots of animals are portrayed as being sentient (mostly birds now that i think about it; and being sentient might not be equivalent of having a spirit)
(Though it fits in a more christian point of view)
3:56 CGI aside holy hell that is a beautiful shot.
Agreed! :)
Officially backed with a hobbit tier lol
Cheers Gardetto, now go have your second breakfast!
Just one of MANY awesome shots in LOTR trilogy.
Thats better cgi than we have today
I've always thought of them as huge vultures, though them being large pterosaurs is mettle af. Like the description in the book, irl vultures are slightly larger ("greater") than eagles on average, and the fell beasts' description was very vulture-like: large, reeking, carrion fowl, naked, long necks, hovering above their enemies causing despair.
In my head, morgoth took vultures and corrupted them to great creatures of darkness similar to how Manwë created the large eagles. That's my head canon.
As for the Nazgul (or as Smeagol put it "wraiths on wings") who patrolled the Dead Marshes, here's what I think happened in the book/movie:
As we know according to the books, the Ring contains much of Sauron's spirit, and the Nazgul are like soul-bound servants to him. So they hear about every order their master gives, and will obey it without a moment's second thought.
As we know in the scene, Frodo felt the urge from the Ring to put it on - which was the seductive voice of Sauron. The closer it got to Frodo, the more the Nazgul got accurate in its search. Not just that, Smeagol himself - who knew the Ring well - stated the following:
"They are calling for it, they are calling for the Preciousss." Which I think indicates that the Nazgul felt something drawing it and it called to the Ring because of it.
It was thanks to Sam that Frodo let go of the Ring, and thus the voice to the Nazgul was lost. As we can see in that scene, the Nazgul flies away and higher up again after that.
So in nutshell of why this Nazgul swooped down so accurately around Frodo, Sam and Smeagol; it felt the presence of the Ring and, as Gandalf also once mentioned, the servants of Sauron (aka the Nazgul) are drawn to its power.
Not sure how this was overlooked? Great theory!
Your voice and accent bring the legendarium to life. Best LoTR channel on RUclips
@ 3:20
I don't think it was scouting the Dagorlad. Rather, I think the rider sensed the ring there and was drawn to it. I think the text intimates this, without overtly expressing it. Furthermore, I think because of the numerous close encounters Frodo had with Nazgul (where the Nazgul were unaware of him), that they may have dismissed some of these 'feelings' (of being close to the ring) as false alarms. I think that the Nazgul who investigated the Dagorlad above Frodo et al., must have ultimately decided that this too was a false alarm and continued about his master's business.
Nothing more awesomer than a Geekzone video right when I get home from school!!!! :) Anyway lived this video Geek the Fell beasts of Mordor has always facanatied me and are some of my most favorite creatures in the Legendarium and thanks so much for explaining them so finely anyway loved this video and can't wait for the next one!!!! :)
I timed it perfectly! ;) Cheers Luke! I really enjoy the mystery surrounding, these sort of topics are my favourite in Tolkien's legendarium! :)
GeekZone I'm really glad you do the Mysteries in Middle Earth is some of my most favorite things about it too!!! :)
“WRAITHS, WRAITHS ON WINGS”
(Shrieking intensifies)
Mr Abootoo As a kid I always thought it was “FRANKS! FRANKS AND BEANS!!”
Man, these videos are amazing, I could watch them all day. So well researched. Keep up the awesome work!
I can honestly say I always enjoy your videos. Keep up the great work and great job!
Cheers buddy, I appreciate it!
GeekZone > Any other lore channel as of 2017/2018. Good work!
I think you researched well and am supporting your theory. I would like to add though, that Sauron might well had wished to mimic the great eagles just as Morgoth copied ents by creating trolls. So i support a merge of your theory with the second mentioned one. Cheers
Sauron couldn't alter creations to make his own like Melkor
I’d like to think that maybe the dead marshes nazgul was taking his replacement mount for a short ride ahead of the orc scouts at Cirith ungol to have a once over sweep of the area and get his harness adjusted and used to the new mount. Or he could have just had a hunch, or been on a routine like you said.
Good video as always! Would love to see one about the Warning beacons of Gondor
So happy I discovered your channel. Been a huge fan of the series and your videos just make me appreciate Tolkien's imagination even more. Thanks for the work you do, you've got a loyal fan here!
Anyone else appreciate that Sauron Wields a Deadric mace in some images?
"A creature of an older world maybe it was, whose kind, lingering in forgotten mountains cold beneath the Moon, outstayed their day, and in hideous eyrie bred this last untimely brood, apt to evil. And the Dark Lord took it, and nursed it with fell meats, until it grew beyond the measure of all other things that fly; and he gave it to his servant to be his steed."
The Fellbeasts are very similar to wyverns. Wyverns are flying reptiles from folklore that are often mistaken for dragons, but are more animalistic in nature, have two legs and wings instead of four legs and wings, and lack the ability to breathe fire. Instead, they're often poisonous. They're used as mounts by orcs in many fantasy franchises.
One thing that came into my head during this video and it's interesting to think about, is that everything has its corrupted counter part, Elves / orcs, Istari / Nazgul, Eagles / fellbeasts, and even maybe land based such as Gondor / Mordor. Think you could expand on this or tell me if I'm chatting waffle
Plz plz talk about the Stone Giants at the Mountain Pass. In The Hobbit movie of the Thunder Battle Scene. I wanna know about the lore and origin about those legendary Giants. Who were they and what was their thoughts from Tolkien?
I think they were just there for the Hobbit, and were never fleshed out when Tolkien went on to expand middle earth lore.
They were just suppose to be a mystery.
I took them for a metaphor, or perhaps colloquial name, for the sound of the huge storm that surrounded them at the time, not actual creatures.
@@ghostlightx9005 I always took them for an allusion to the storm, but upon my last read it _does_ state that "Bilbo could hear their stony voices guffawing" or something along those lines, implying they were actual beings. Likely, Maiar or Ainur that still inhabited the area. The mountain Caradhras was said to be a living thing. Tolkien had a lot of odd beings in his tales that are implied to be remnants of ancient times, those that wandered out of Beleriand and crept to isolated parts of the world.
Cloud Strife you know is all fantasy of one old man
my favorite video so far! would love to see more videos like this about monsters from middle earth
Another awesome video! You covered, extremely thoroughly and satisfactorily the 2 of the 3 things I was most interested in. Maybe the 3rd also, but I haven't come across that video. 1:watcher in the water, 2:fell beasts, 3:the three headed watcher at the gates(the alarm statue thing guarding the tower frodo was kept it after stung by shelob, and taken by orcs.)Actually, I'm sure there are at least a couple more, I'm just not thinking of at the moment lol.
Again, this was another great video! Keep up the great work!
Thanks Cirya! :)
"Feast on his flesh"...."Do not come between a nazgul and his prey" - This scene always gave me the impression the Fellbeasts were nazgul
Same. Until the first book and film where Aragorn describes the ringwraiths and calls them the nazgul
I am always so enchanted by these storys, whenever you release a new video.
Really great work! Keep it up :D
Cheers mate, I appreciate it :)
Subscribed! Your viseos on Middle Earth are quite thorough, and thought provoking.
personal theory: with the failure of smaug the dragon sauron still admired the strength of dragons and took drakes and corrupted them. the drakes lost the great scales and firey breath but became large creatures cloaked in an aura of fear and dread. the perfect mounts for the ring wraiths.
They've existed longer than 80 years
Fantastic video mate :) it’s super interesting that Tolkien himself realised their similarity to pterodactyls!
A little off topic, but I was wondering if anyone has any information on why Peter Jackson scrapped the "bridge movie." He was originally supposed to make one or two hobbit movies followed by a movie that chronicles the events during the 60 years that lead up to LOTR. I would love to see that movie. Perhaps there is still a slim chance it gets made? Perhaps geekzone can make a video describing the events during that time? That would be great.
He decided to make it about the White Council's battle against Sauron in Dol Guldur instead and integrated it into the Hobbit movies.
The Hobbit movies were terrible. such a shame
2 Hobbit movies and a bridge movie would have been perfect. But they went for the blockbuster trilogy $$$. Jackson makes excuses about the Hobbit being out of his control, but the whole thing reeks of bad ego and greed. In LOTR he curated Tolkien's world, in Hobbit he thought he was good enough to write Tolkien. The result is like a Harry Potter movie.
I love that you put Christopher Youngs Birth of Sandman score in the background.
I think the Nazgul were probably searching the Dead Marshes as Frodo and Sam crossed because of something Aragorn mentioned. To paraphrase, they are drawn by the power of the One Ring, and can probably sense its general location as the Ring calls out to its master.
Thanks for your great research and beautiful videos! Loved this one! I think the fell beasts may have been creatures like bats that Melkor/Morgoth found and corrupted within Utummno and Angband. These fell beasts may have survived the War of Wrath like some Dragons and the Balrog. Sauron may have learned of their hiding places with the Palentir stones and gathered them to be his dark wing weapons!
Thanks Scott! Sauron might have also known about them since he was Morgoth's lieutenant, and so would have a deep understanding of Morgoth's works and deeds :)
I agree with your theory on the origin of these creatures. They are nothing like eagles, & as you said, evil can't create, just alter or corrupt. We obviously don't know what creatures they originally were, but after Morgoth & then Sauron were done with them they were so much different that it didn't matter.
Tolkein did compare the Fell Beasts to Pteradactyls after it was brought to his attention. I'd like to see Fell Beasts that resemble Azhdarchid Pterosaurs, the biggest of which were as tall as Giraffes and could have preyed on Humans.
Perhaps the Nazgul above the Dead Marhes felt the power of the Ring so he checked, or something. He was sent towards Isengard pollibly to pick up the Ring, and it was confused that how he could feel the Ring so close, when it is so far. Or something like that I guess
Shadows with wings? What are ya tolkien about?
Lol
Thanks now leave and never come back
In Battle For Middle Earth it was awsome to put your fellbeast chasing down the armies of Gondor and Elves
Templar S bastard Mirkwood Archers ruined that
I generally used them for attacking buildings since they can get across the map so fast and are quite strong
Which game?
Yeah this makes perfect sense. Also, in the Silmarillion it says that Morgoth hid is corrupted beasts in Utumno, and were issued forth in the battle of the powers. As Peter Jackson depicted them as dragons in the films, it could also be probable that these are some breed of dragon that Morgoth bred, probably related to Ancalagon the Black, as they look it bit like how he was described. Again, these beasts survived as when the Valar overthrew Morgoth, many of his beasts escaped, probably including these ones, and hid in the ruins of Utumno, the remainders of the Iron Mountains (such as the Mts. of Angmar or the Grey Mountains), or, as described, in some eyries hidden in the Misty Mountains.
Still kinda works with what you said, and is definitely better than the corrupt eagles theory!
(Could you please reply cos I wanna know if you agree)
You should do a video about the history of Ents and entwives and all info about them. I can see a lot of people taking an interest in that cause I sure did haha
Love how i think i know everythin about this series and you always surprise me! Mind blown great job!!!
Thanks Austin, hopefully we'll keep it that way for future video! ;)
Hey, loved the video as always and always will. I wanted to ask you if you could do a video about Rovanion. I really want to learn more about it and what factions and creatures live in in. Keep up the great work 👍🏻.
Cheers Frodo! I'll be covering Rhovanion for sure in the future, though since it's such a large area it'll probably be broken down into smaller topics :)
I wonder if dragons and fell beasts started off being the same species. Some reptilian creature like a Kodomo dragon in remote parts of Middle-Earth that were corrupted by the dark forces. Morgoth being incredibly powerful transformed some into dragons, while Sauron, being not quite as powerful, was only able to conjure up Fell Beasts (ie transform). It is curious that dragons seemed to have a varied appearance and size, but Fell Beasts are all the same size and shape (to my knowledge).
Some very plausible explanations and I quite like it! Another possibility is that the "fell beasts" are in fact a pre-existing species that Morgoth first used as hosts from which to breed dragons, and that only a remnant of this species were left at the time of the Third Age, in some remote area in the west or north, and possibly that these remaining fell beasts were either just captured and used by Sauron in their extant form, or also twisted by his arts, but given his lesser power and the fact that his skills and arts were more suited towards crafting of materials could not yield creatures anywhere near as mighty as the dragons. We know that there were creatures in Middle Earth that came there of their own accord (and some which may even have been a sort of "byproduct of creation") and that some were evil or at least hostile towards other living things without Morgoth's influence - the creatures that dwelled far below Moria below the roots of the Misty Mountains for instance which were there even before Morgoth came to Middle Earth. These may perhaps also have been creatures such as this, and may have been evil, or perhaps just vile and dreadful but with no real intentional malice. Just some thoughts
Cool vids to listen to, and good pics with it. As to the Nazgul's beasts, I could see them coming from the Misty Mountains, and Sauron finding them when he was hanging out in Dol Goldur. After all, there were trolls and ice giants in the Misty's, too. But on the other hand, it seems like the Eagles of the Misty Mountains would have hunted them out, and the elves known about them probably. So then I wonder if instead Tolkien meant them to come from farther north, in the broken lands where Morgoth was defeated at the end of the 1st Age, or the northern Misty's, where Angmar is, the home of the witch-king Lord of the Nazgul. That seems like a more likely place, since so few elves or dwarves are up there, just Rangers. And after all, Aragorn says that Rangers keep foul beasts and servants of evil from coming south, so that could be one of the types of beasts he referred to.
Hey I requested this video just like a week ago and you actually made it! Wow you legend, keep up the great videos!
You're welcome Humzah! :)
Best description of the fellbeasts that I've heard (thumbs up)
The amount of research you put in these videos is very impressing. I was imediately captivated by your way of telling stories and i think the vast majority of us, your viewers, are very grateful for these amazing tales and theories that you produce. Thank you and keep up the good work! 👏🏻
P.s: i think that it would be nice if we got to know you better, maybe through a q&a video?
Cheers Andrea! I appreciate it! :) I'd like to do a Q and A video in the future, so if there are any questions you'd like to ask, feel free to leave them as a youtube comment, or contact me on twitter/facebook, and I'll include them in that video! :)
They do resemble pterodactyls, but I think Tolkien created them as a fantasy-world version of German air craft, which in WWI were mostly used for reconaissance missions. He may have also borrowed the idea of the "night gaunt" from another great fantasy writer, H.P. Lovecraft!
Don't know why, but I always imagined them to be like gigantic featherless vultures.
Again, a nice video! Keep up the good work 😂😂😂
Thanks Alex! :)
0:47 this design is far cooler than the movie one imo
I would pay 100s of dollars to listen to a lord of the rings on tape with your voice narrated over.
The one Voice to rule them all, one voice to find them, one voice to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
This^
I'm hooked on your lore videos man so good !
Your content is killer man. 10/10 insanely knowledgeable
So much was missing from the 6 movies. I hope if they had been honest than it wud have been 9 part series. You are awsome. Keep it up. These stories are thrillers in themselves. Awsome!!!!
Cheers Garry!
dragonlings, wormlings, specifically made to be mounts rather than intelligent and as uncontrollable as their sires. def. not eagles.
But an intelligent dragon is a much, much fiercer ally to have. Sauron even wanted his own dragon in Smaug, i think if he had the opportunity to breed dragons he would of just had them be dragons
New subscriber here. Lord of the Rings geek, mainly elves, but i just love it. my first time seeing lord of the rings was return of the king and have to admit, i was a little freaked out and actually thought it was all real (haha) until i watched the behind the scenes features and that it was all just actors, and an amazing crew who made this world of Middle-Earth so believable and real.
Hey Adria welcome to the fellowship! :) Both the CGI and make up in the Lord of the Rings trilogy were awesome, I still remember watching the Return of the King at the movies as a kid and closing my eyes during the paths of the dead!
Thanks! they were!!! The fellowship of The Ring is my fave. I remember watching the scene with Deagol and Smeagol and got a little freaked out when they got into that fight over the ring and Smeagol suffocated his friend, yeah.....i was a little freaked out. the fight sequence looks so real.
Is there any way you could do a video on the Ents and Entwives? I've always found them fascinating and am curious about your take on their ultimate fates. Keep up the great content!
For sure Kyle, they're an awesome topic :) I'll make sure they're part of next week's video poll!
Impressed, so accustomed to 'lore videos' that take liberties, and are not founded in the textures, that I tend to avoid them. This was a well researched and restrained, while handling theories with awarness, well done indeed.
Thanks mate, I do my best to only use the source material and am quite cautious about speculation (I always state that it is my own theory beforehand). That way I avoid any misconceptions as best as I can
Appriciated, for several years been devoted to, at forums, share what Tolkien wrote on topics (sometimes in contradiction, hehe), to enlighten in a world where misconceptions (from films, games or vauge memories) are ripe. Appriciate to find a channel that do so too, to a wide audience.
Just listened to your Balrog video, you earned another subscriber ^^ Cheers
I appreciate it :) Welcome to the fellowship mate!.
Can you do a video on Werewolves?
Some of my favorite parts from the books is when Tolkien is describing the sort of primordial creatures. Lost to time and memory. Sorry if this guy says it too, but J.R.R. isn't even really sure how Sauron got them. Just kind of eludes to a possible forgotten labyrinth or mountain where a single brood might have survived. Same thing with the creatures of Moriah. Just adds an awesome realness and kind of Sci fi aspect to the world.
Ive waited for this! thx you made it!
4:37 OMG thats so awesome!
6:15 that ones also pretty amazing
Hm, maybe the ancestors or creatures that were related to them could even have been the origin of dragons, at least the winged ones? I know the first drakes were wingless, but there had to be like a "source material", and mayb morgoth crossbred some of these beasts, some were winged, some not, and later imbued them with his power to create real dragons?
If they were copies, then imo sauron did not try to copy eagles, rather the works of his master, dragons
Hope the wait was worth it! ;)
It was indeed! :)
It's possible that the two shared a common ancestor, I don't think we can rule it out! :)
Just want to say I really like your content, please keep them coming.
+Davidh41690 Thanks David, I appreciate it!! :)
Love your videos. I agree with your suspicion that they were probably greater than the eagles in size considering the quotation you showed later. However, I would suggest that the lingered in the mountains in the far, far north. Perhaps in the region that had once been the location of Utumno. The Valar didn't completely clean that area out when they chained Melkor, as it says in the Silmarillion. Had they been living in the Misty Mountains then it seems all but impossible that they could have remained unknown for 6000+ years. Also, Sauron probably didn't need to put his power into them for them to become what they did because, unlike Carcaroth who was an unparalleled creature, these were not really at the same level: one killed by an arrow and another with a sword strike.
I just stumbled upon this channel yesterday, subbed to it, and now I've watched all of your videos in one day. Really enjoying this quality content of yours. May I ask you, where you are from? That accent is really hard to identify. Anyway, greetings from Germany!
Cheers mate! I'm from Malta!
I could listen to your beautiful Maltese voice for hours. But harken now, as I recount the tale of Bargozím, the Fell Cockroach, foul pet caressed by Morgoth, ancient spawn sprung unwished-for from the tainted loins of Ungoliant to trouble the kitchens of Man.
Great video as usual. One thing that puzzles me about Tolkien's descriptions of some of the creatures that populate the legendarium. It would seem odd for a beast or creature to be predisposed to be "evil" per se. As a beast, even an intelligent beast, unlike the "higher order" of beings, do not generally have a moral and ethical center, or defined code by which they can have a predilection towards good or evil, in the classical sense. Most creatures/beasts/animals are not like humankind in that sense.
Now one animal can certainly be more violent or more aggressive than another. An animal can certainly be anthropomorphed and considered characteristics like "sly" or "sneaky" (like a Fox or certain Monkeys), but even that is really assigning a humanistic trait to them. They are not literally "sneaky" in the terms that a human would be that is doing something behind someone's back, an animal simply develops the instincts of survival that can include how to steal food when a larger, stronger animal or prey is not looking. So even when the books describe Carcharoth as being "cunning" when he was slinking through Doriath, I don't think that is the same as human cunning.
Now an animal can certainly be USED for evil, so like in our reality, when a Pit Bull dog is trained to be aggressive and mean, and then taken by an evil doer, like a drug kingpin, and used to attack the enemies, that is the animal being used for evil, but the animal itself is not again "evil" from a moral sense. So even with these Fellbeast, it would be odd for them to be classified as "evil" as opposed to them being violent, aggressive, attacking type of creatures, that are used by Sauron's forces for evil purposes.
Now the one "creature" in MiddleEarth that could be classified as morally evil in a sense are likely Dragons, but in looking at Dragons and their history, their intelligence, even their speech ability, they are certainly not in any way to be considered an Animal, even by Middle Earth terms. They are a higher order creature that has cognition and intellect, no different than a Balrog, being a Maia that is stuck in a permanent evil form, is a "Creature" so to speak now, but not an animal.
Great video, but one nitpick and pet peeve: it isn't one word, it's two, fell beast, and it isn't an actual name for the creature, it's just a description used in the books - a creature that is fell, i.e., deadly, terrifying. "Fell" is an archaic word (etymologically unrelated to the past tense of "fall") Tolkien used a number of times in his fiction. Saying they were generally called fellbeasts is like seeing a war movie where the characters see an enemy tank and say "that is one scary mother" and saying "this model of tank was referred to as a 'scarymother' by American forces."
Using "fell beast" as a name for them doesn't even comes from the movies, it comes from marketing materials, toys, and video games. I guess they needed something to put on the blister pack for the action figure and "Nazgul's winged mount" didn;t have the same ring to it.
Really really liking your channel! Keep up the amazing work
Thanks Samuel, I appreciate it mate! :)
Have you done a book vs movies comparison set yet? Im new to this channel and working my way through and those comparisons through your eyes would be most welcome because you are a scholar of Tolkiens middle earth and I am a worshipper! Keep it up! ❤️. You put into words how my my mind thinks. Amazing!
I have a couple, though they're very old videos and their quality is lacking imo. Perhaps I'll remake them someday! :)
It's too bad they didn't make an appearance in the movies as often as they did in the book. That way I feel like it would be a lot easier for people to understand why the Eagles couldn't just fly The Fellowship to Mordor.
Nonetheless the Fell Beasts are very fascinating, I love how they are interpreted on the movie.
and I thought they were dragons at first lol Ps I love how serpentine they look In the films.
I would think that Sauron might have found the basic creature in either the Grey Mountains, possibly near the Withered Heath or the far westerly end near Carn Dum.
Thanks for this video. More interesting than most, as this was a subject I knew little about.
Cheers mate, you're welcome! :)
I love the Spider Man 3 "Sandman emerges" music in the intro ;)
I think the scouting of the dead marshes was routine sense it's a terrain where footsoldiers such as orks have a hard time traversing, yet we KNOW that sauron is obsessed with efficency and perfections, as he continously stacked advantage over advantage during the war of the ring, using diplomacy, tricks, ambushes, overwhelming numbers, and collecting as much weapons, beast, and warrior as phisically possible to always enshure long term victory.
It would make sense that he would send a nazgul over the marshes to avoid enemy spies sneaking to the black gate so that his movements around the black gate would be unobserved, and his enemies would find out much later when he moves his armies from that direction. Now we know that the rignwraiths are Sauron's strongest soldiers, and "they may be better used elsewhere" they are also the only ones able to efficently patrol the hard to cross terrains of the marshes.
As Saruman stated "the orcs were once elves but were corrupted by the darkness" I feel that is a likely possibility for the fell beasts. An ancient race of flying creatures that had become long forgotten until Sauron discovered them, afterwards over time turned them into the fierce flying creatures used by Sauron's most loyal servants. Like Tolkien stated, evil cannot create but can corrupt something that already exists which was likely what happened with the fell beasts.
OMG the thing that the Fell-Beast were ancient beings corrupted by Morgoth and Sauron goes beyond any question at this time, but the thing they lingered in a unknown dangerous part of the Misty Mountains were Sauron found them, seems to recall to me the ancient fear for Caradhras surrounds by the Dwarves (as Gimli said it was dangerous before the Orcs arrived there) and also Celebrian, Elrond´s wife and Arwen´s mother, was attacked there at it seemed it was a pretty harsh experience, that made her to leave Middle Earth to Valinor and never return, which somehow seems something more drastic than some nasty orcs were there!!. Could be it related to the Fell-Beast origins too?
I thought the Misty Mountains were created by Morgoth to disrupt the journeys of the elves as they travelled west across middle earth after they had awoken
I believe it served that purpose also. The exact quote is: "But the mountains were the Hithaeglir, the Towers of Mist upon the borders of Eriador; they they were taller and more terrible in those days, and were reared by Morgoth to hinder the riding of Orome."
Your videos are my favorite part of the day :)
Glad to hear that Pj! :)
Sweet video I think they were deff searching the dead marshes, I’m sure sauron at least felt the ring a lil tiny bit 🤏
I don't think anyone said this yet, but it has to be said: When you said "Pterodactyl" you showed a "Pteranodon" and both belong to the Pterosaurs which are not dinosaurs. Interestingly, since at least the felbeast of the Witch King was described as having some feathers according to my sources it arguably could have been derived from a dinosaur. There is this newly discovered small dinosaur called Yi Qi which has evidence of having wings made out of skin instead of feathers, but it also has feathers. The body plan fits the felbeasts as well and the only difference is size, longer neck and a beak and all of this could easily be given in LOTR by Sauron or maybe Melkor in the Simarillion.
Love the vid man. What's the background music your using? Love my fantasy tunes!
Well done! This is quite thorough and probable in Tolkien’s greater works if you went from Simarillion to the beginning of the 4th age i.e time of men. Just as in many legends, and in Melkor’s works to enslave and corrupt, these animals were likely something lizard like, subterranean.
you have the perfect voice for this!
Great discussion of one of the most mysterious creatures in Tolkien’s legendarium. I love Tolkien’s description of these creatures being the last remnants of some type of nearly extinct species like a pterodactyl or something.
Thanks Martin! What's your opinion on their origins?
That’s a tough one because there is no mention of dinosaurs or anything like that in the Ainulindale so as cool as it sounds (to me anyway) to think of them as some kind of pterodactyl like creatures that had almost gone extinct but were still hanging on in some remote mountains where Sauron discovered them, it just doesn’t really fit in the story. More than likely they were one of the monsters of Melkor that we read about in the Valaquenta that roamed the dark regions of Middle Earth during the ages before the awakening of the Elves, and that Orome hunted. In fact, it even uses the term “fell beasts” in the description of Orome: “He is a hunter of monsters and fell beasts, and he delights in horses and in hounds”. I know that “fell beasts” could describe any type of evil creature but it’s interesting that the exact same phrase is also used to describe the winged steeds of the Nazgul.
Mhm I agree, you summed it up quite nicely! :)