My most problematic Deltarune opinion is that the religious element is gonna be Turbo-Relevant. This isn't related to anything but I hang off of every word uttered about the occult/the church in this game.
@@TheLudomancer There has already been a lot of focus on it, so I wouldn't be shocked. Even if it's not a "face level plotpoint" it will, at the very least, be incredibly philisophically and thematically relevant.
Toby Fox and those who know him have spoken a few times about how he was raised Christian and went to church growing up, and whether or not he's still a man of faith, it definitely seems to have played a role in his storytelling sensibilities. So far he seems to be taking a rather considerate approach towards religion, and I wonder just how deeply clashes against theology will be explored, especially given the player's role as a sort of religious figure in universe (whether that aspect is angelic or demonic remains to be seen.)
@@josephbulkin9222 I mean that doesn't mean there's not things to critique about it, it is used as a justification for a great many crimes and persecutions in modern society. Religion has been immensely helpful throughout history, but that doesn't mean it will always be necessary. I mean there are plenty of modern secular institutions and people who live non-religious lives. Of course I believe that people should always be able to have faith without being persecuted or looked down on for it, but to say that without it humanity would die is an exaggeration at this current point in time.
It would be very cool if the implication of "So that's why, Kris." is in response to something Kris said explaining to Ralsei. Rather than framing Ralsei. Though the implications of the weird route blindsiding him seems very, very interesting.
Not only is the script of this video fantastic analysis as well as being hilarious, BUT THE EDITING ADDS SO MUCH FLAVOUR HOW HAVE YOU NOT BLOWN UP YET???
i haven't watched any DR theories in a hot minute, and i have been summoned to this one on behalf of someone i know telling me! in fact, i actually remember seeing your other vid about toby some time ago and your editing/pacing is rlly fucking good, first off ^^ extremely well done video overall, i hope it pops off. i wanna start by saying that i really like your take on ralsei's relation to kris a lot, especially through the lens of ralsei trying to get to the bottom of kris's struggles, and Possibly sending us away to susie/noelle in ch1 and 2 for that purpose; to talk to the Actual kris just bc he barely actually gets the chance to. that, and i think you hit the nail right on the head with your analysis of kris in general, and their struggle to find identity. as someone that spent A Lot of time mainly looking at ralsei's relationship with the player, i feel i still pretty easily underestimate how complex ralsei's dialogue and character can get. you pointing out how often he specifically says the name of who he's speaking to is another thing i missed that just adds to that, i only really paid attention to that when it was referring to kris, but yeah he really just does that with fucking Everybody and Everywhere huh. i think through this theory, it kind of makes the moments where kris pulls out the SOUL actually work in favor of it, because if it's true that ralsei's keeping the player out of those interactions with kris specifically so he can help them find their identity, knowing how much control we have over them, then that honestly just seems Correct to me. as long as we are able to do anything more than simply watch, we are going to be muddying up the waters of what kris actually Feels and wants to say, and it would make a lot of sense that ralsei understands that and needs to go as far as to shunting us elsewhere to help kris in that sense. i never really had a Good idea of what the two of them could've been talking about in those scenes, but for now, i'm willing to just work with that lol. all that said though, please do not ever group me in again with matpat/"FNAF-brained" theorizing /lh genuinely though, i'm sick to death myself of that fucking series and the goalpost moving that it kept doing to perpetuate mystery just for the hell of it! i share your sentiments a lot abt not only the fact that the story is incomplete, but especially that we can't simply condense everything the game and narrative is about into Just one bubble, and use that to Confidently tell us where the story is actually going; especially when indeed, the story is still Going, and while we Can find potential foreshadowing in some places, the game hasn't gotten to actually say what it wants to say yet. i never really approached it assuming that i Knew its message, as much as i just was like "well...how much *can* we know, anyway? where can we actually hit a wall, if we really dug a bit deeper into this? what's actually the limit for now?" i do understand that after a point in PART 3, i did use the theory i presented in the first hour + what i could parse of its themes as a means of making my own pretty out there predictions, and i completely get that not being everyone's thing! i made sure to show that i wasn't making that whole video to be correct, let alone to "solve" DELTARUNE objectively, as much as i just wanted those thoughts out of my head before the next chapters were out; i didn't make those other 5 hours for toby, or for anyone really, other than myself, they were just the questions i was asking and what i was thinking with the incomplete picture we currently have, to give myself the closure of "what do i Personally think DELTARUNE is telling me so far, given the impact it and UNDERTALE left on me?". it definitely was flawed mainly in that it looked at stuff only through the meta lens a lot, and leaned a bit too hard on some of those themes, but i knew that going in. obviously, i wasn't gonna fuckin solve DELTARUNE in 3 videos. and obviously, we don't have the full picture, but i suppose my gripe with grouping me in w/ matpat of all people, is i feel it kind of misrepresents what i was really going for with that video overall, and my intent behind it; i'm never gonna claim to know toby personally, or to know his intent through Facts and Diegetic Logic, because as someone working on my own original projects, i know you can't exactly do that from the outside looking in, and it's possible people will misinterpret your work even when they Do have the full picture (death of the author, etc). i think that grouping it in with that sort of theorizing kinda gives this impression that i made that video as my crazy guess at predicting the whole game, and that it's a 6 and a half hour long "bravo Toby Fox you thought of literally Everything", which feels a bit misrepresenting of it? at most, it's my way of thanking him for the impact his stuff's left on me, but i don't think he Thought of Literally Everything that i was speculating about. i know damn well i'm just kind of mentally ill and reading way too deep into it, because i love telling stories myself and analyzing how other people do it, so i can learn something from them. i know when 3 and 4 are out, i'm not gonna be giving a shit about my theories of the game on launch, i'll just want to experience them for what they are. if anything, i think what you said at the end of this video is a point i was trying to make multiple times throughout, that we just don't have everything yet, and DELTARUNE simply can't be solved because it's not a Complete work at the moment. and while TDT Was my interpretations, i Could Be Wrong, and i am Fine with being wrong, and i do think there's a very real chunk of the community that's putting a bit too much stock into stuff, and setting these really specific and unreasonable expectations. but if you don't know what's being cooked yet, it's at least fun to take guesses at what you're about to even eat in the first place, no? as long as you trust that it's gonna be some good food whether or not you're right, i don't think it's inherently a harmful way to look at stuff, you just have to look at it as what it Could be rather than what it HAS to be, and i think that's what a lot of people are missing. i wouldn't even call how you addressed part 3 a flaw, as much as i think it just highlights how needed this kinda discussion has been in the community. it's something i've been wanting to see more of, and even throw my hat into the ring to tbh as we get closer to the new chapters coming out. i don't like to look at TDT as my attempt at solving or "predicting" it, as much as it was me getting the worst of the brainrot out of my system so i can enjoy 3-4 with a fresh mind. i do still believe some of the stuff in TDT, but i'm not gonna ride or die by it (aside from Gaster not being the second voice in the goner maker, that is the one hill i will die on lmao). i'm just kinda here to see what the rest of it is like now that i got my thoughts out. again, incredibly edited and well done video overall! you've got a way of pacing stuff that feels super concise, but it doesn't feel like it's going Too fast either, and it was super fun to watch
Thx for the last bit. I hate people who say "we'll be disapointed". I wont. Im just here for the ride and will enjoy the ending of deltarune, even if its not "what everyone wanted" ❤
YOU! YOU GET IT! GODS THIS IS SO GOOD TO SEE!! Especially since the high energy of this video and comedic elements are just so electrifying! I love this so much! Such a breath of fresh air!
i like this video and agree with most of what you say-i’ve been saying for a while that fnaf game theory stuff has had a terrible impact on how people on the internet think about and analyze complex media, and that those kinds of people hit the exact wall you talk about when faced with a work that carefully controls viewer-facing information and doesn’t want to be “solved” before the end. i distinctly remember the petscop community feeling the same restless frustration you talk about that many of us feel now, and people coming to the same conclusions. however, i do take umbrage with the device theory video being used as an example of what you were talking about at the end there. as someone who has watched it all the way through it’s almost entirely thematic analysis and predicting the general trajectory of the rest of the story based on that rather than specific events, which the creator makes explicitly clear she thinks doing is largely a fool’s errand, for the same reasons you do. i think it’s disingenuous to cite it as fnafcore illiterate theory brainrot based entirely on the length even just as a bit
Awesome comment! We have VERY different reads on The Device Theory videos. I think the way she looked at Every Single Element, treating it as something critical and worth complex Watsonian analysis, especially in the first two videos is functionally indistinguishable from the FNaF approach. eg: Her (very self-aware) point on the Yellow Soul as divine intervention. Even if she only included things for sake of completeness and voiced non-confidence in it, it was still included. It works great as a sort of documentary and omni-resource for future reference, but the feeling that such cataloguing and base-covering is absolutely necessary, Is the FNaF approach I don't agree with. eg: I COULD have gone over the vessel, and by extension Gaster and by extension the Egg Man in depth to further go over Kris' identity dilemma. But I didn't feel it was necessary. I don't say "FNaF-brained" derogatorily, to imply unilateral illiteracy to any of it's strongest soldiers, or have any real judgement on the topic. My issue is with FNaF and it's influence. Not the things people have made under that influence.
@ ohh yeah that’s actually very fair! honestly i kind of mentally glossed over those first two videos because i watched them so long ago and i already know most of it lol, which is a bit of an analytical mistake because those are indeed part of device theory. i do see what you mean about that being like the fnaf approach, yeah, though i do think she goes about it in the most constructive way possible, being, as you said, self-aware with it. and i think the main thing when it comes to these things is to have an awareness to reign it in. hyperanalysis can be fun, but there’s a time and place for it, and other times where you just need to keep it simple stupid. and those watsonian vs doylist lenses can help guide you towards figuring out what is important. like, to me, i’ve never found it worth reading into susie dragging off ralsei in chapter 2 because it’s obvious she’s not doing it deliberately-though i would say that there’s something to Our Experience seeming to be almost perfectly handcrafted, and how that much seems intentional. maybe it’s not the dark worlds themselves and it’s gaster or something, but it’s always easy to say a wizard did it. and yeah, to add more nuance: i don’t want to throw any shade towards the fnaf community either, because i enjoy hearing what they have to say-i keep eyeballing that one “we solved fnaf and we’re Not Kidding” video. my problem is very much like yours (i felt very vindicated hearing someone else say it lol) in that the fallout of fnaf has highly encouraged hyperanalysis without thematic substance. because, to be honest, in my opinion, fnaf itself just has absolutely nothing going on there under the hood. it’s almost entirely window dressing and complexity for complexity’s sake and most of the story has no actual thematic weight, no *point*, whatsoever. there’s traces, hints at themes, impactful moments, but very little in the way of meaningful things to say overall. and you can tell where the creator’s priorities lie by the fact that he changed stuff around behind the scenes when people Figured It Out with regards to a future installment-if people Solve The Mystery and know what happens, then they’ll stop caring about his game, won’t they? therefore, most of the analysis of it is just trying to figure out what the fuck even happened, with thematic analysis playing second hat. and i think this has been an unfortunate lesson for a whole generation of people growing up on the internet-prioritizing hyperanalysis of events rather than their meaning, with this sort of mindset carrying over to less extreme examples. whether they realize it or not, the children yearn for the media analysis, and they’re learning it from the internet, not english classes. this is Street Analysis. the curtains are fucking blue. thankfully, in 2024, more people are open to discussing whether the curtains really are just fucking blue. also-i love your editing style! it very much scratches my brain in just the right way
The intro is probably one of the beste examples of how without exaggeration Deltarune is a clusterfuck of lore and thematic tissue forming an amalgamation of hopes and dreams that threatens our dreams and livelihood by being SO peak.
thank you so much for so many references to kris being nonbinary and being so upfront about it, as a nonbinary deltarune fan it can be kinda infuriating when people just sweep that aspect of this character under the rug or misgender them entirely (either maliciously or because they dont care enough to pay attention to the text)
So far three humans from the game seem to be nonbinary, makes me wonder if humans in undertale world are just born nonbinary or if main characters are just choosen to be like this, might be worth a theory tbh
@@grianjuju9438 Dunno, I think Chris is Nonbinary both for the same reason Chara and Frisk were, and to further point to the identity crisis they are having. But if we really want to point and poke at plot shenanigans and 4 wall chicanery, in-spite of the message of the video: So now that for all intents and purposes GOD has determined even their gender identity as ambiguous and or "other", it further exacerbates their crisis, as they can't even lean into gendered stereotypes to form an identity from. (like trying to be the popular girl, or the Chad Sportsjock).
@@grianjuju9438 A lot of classic RPGs used to let you name the main character. Undertale/Deltarune kinda twists that concept on it's head by letting you name the main character but leaving their gender up in the air making them a true "blank slate" to us, the player at first. As we play the game however, we find that the "blank slate" character does have their own name and not the one we gave them originally(though in Deltarune we find the main character's name right away--we named a vessel which was discarded.). However, the gender of the main character, Kris is still left up in the air. It could be said that was done for the audience to be able to relate to Kris as a character better in general as Kris the human rather than Kris the boy or Kris the girl.
I really like the realistic analysis, that acknowledges, that not everything must be super deep and sometimes it is just there for the story telling and building of relationships.
THE KRIS ANALYSIS VIDEO IS HERE EVERYONE STAY CALM STAY FUCKING CALM Edit: okay, finished watching a video and honestly really LOVE the idea that Kris has identity problems. Considering they are the only human in a small city, that have a difficult relationship with people around them, that often defined through their past behaviour(aka problem kid) and who just lost a probably the only stable and supportive figure in their life(aka Asriel) it’s easy to see how they can get lost in who they are. And darkworld being a sort of free-safe playground for them to explore the idea of who they are and can be, through convoluted scenarios and other people. LIKE THIS IS GENIUS, everyone will point out the empty shelves in their room but no one will ask why in-universe they are empty. Also It’s relatable personally to me, so plus points for that. Cannot wait for more videos!!
I don't even disagree with the bulk of this video, unhinged theories can be really bad for discourse if they are taken too seriously, but it feels like you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater because we can't realistically have all the answers right now
Yeah! And I almost hope that the theories won't be correct, and that despite all the digging there was still things that can suprise us. But digging is still fun tho and keeps the fandom alive! I love the believable, well researched ones but the crack theories are also fun in their own right :D I love seeing the game I love from many perspectives that I couldn't think of
Yeah! I’m just arguing that we’re so primed to do it because FNAF set the bad precedent that we NEED to, which, we don’t. Just because I’m not personally a fan of the attitude doesn’t mean I’m condemning it.
I'm gonna say it...! What FNaF and its community have done to the internet is a fascinating phenomenon and, while I personally don't like it (hence the reason why I ditched it and didn't really enjoy any Game Theory videos on FNaF past the 7th or so), there is still a huge difference between FNaF and Deltarune/Undertale. Toby is a phenomenal writer, composer and shitposter, Scott isn't. That's it, that's all I need to say. I think there's a very good reason why Undertale and Deltarune have stayed so beloved and so relevant all these years without much of it having been released (one Undertale 9 years ago, 2 chapters of Deltarune), while the Five Nights at Freddy's franchise HAD to have a ton of incoherent things released again and again to keep the community captivated. It has gotten to the point where nothing makes sense anymore and it's clear Scott didn't have any particular idea from the beginning. Toby, on the other hand, knows EXACTLY what he's creating. And people have taken note of that, so they like theorising, they like analysing things, even if they're just gags. So that's why, Kris.
You have something GENUINELY compelling, well written, and presented in a fun and engaging way here. but you throw it all out to say "Well, we can't know for sure, so stop thinking!!!". Nobody can know the meaning of life for sure, nobody can know if life exists on other planets for sure, nobody can tell where their own life will go, but we still think about these things anyways. Deltarune can't be solved yet, but I can say that personally trying to solve it has been a fun experience in of itself, and like any game, I will miss it when its solved. Ive made so many friends and happy memories in this community, and I wouldn't be involved if I just said "Well we can't be certain, so might as well move on!". The example you give for "giving this game too much credit", Mollystars' Device Theory. is something it's creator cares deeply about, and effected her life profoundly. I don't see how theorizing takes away from the meaning of a piece of media, lots of stories are confusing and require mental effort to put together in a comprehensive way. Primer, House of Leaves, Hell, thats what the entire _mystery_ genre is about! And simplifying all these stories down to "just like FNaF lol" is over generalizing. Putting together a theory requires mulling over every single line of dialogue in the game I love, its through theorizing that I've grown to understand Deltarune, and saying "well none of it matters, maybe Toby just didn't think about it that hard..." is frankly an insult to Toby and the game he is making. A story is meant to be understood and interpreted, and even if our solutions, our interpretations turn out to be wrong, that doesn't make the story we're going to get any worse, nor does it make that interpretation less impactful before we know what the "correct" solution is. But _taking away_ meaning because "we don't know for sure!" only takes away possibilities and meaning for other people. No wonder this is such a meaningless video.
This was an incredibly sobering video. This is a very well put together, realistic analysis that you should be really proud of, not to mention the fantastic editing! Magnifique👌 You've really readjusted my perspective on the story for this game, to be honest I've seen so many wild theories and speculations from other people that I've become completely lost in what my thoughts are of the story anymore. You've reminded me to just take the story as it comes and enjoy it, and I am very grateful for that. Thank you for making this video, I think it's so much more "grounded" than most of what I've seen since Chapter 2 released if that makes sense. Thinking of the game's central theme as Kris' identity crisis is something I haven't thought of until I watched this, I think it's definitely how I'll look at the game's story going forward (or until more concrete stuff is revealed I guess). OH! And not to mention I really like your interpretation of Ralsei's character, I've always thought that the reason he doesn't make much headway with Kris in affirming their identity is because he doesn't know who he is or what he wants to be either. I think once he learns what being 'Ralsei-like' really is then he will be able to connect with and help Kris in a much more genuine way. I've thought this ever since the Swan boat scene and you've nailed it down in a much more eloquent way than I ever could. I've really struggled to figure what exactly his narrative purpose is and it's a little embarrassing that it took you laying this out for me to see something so simple aha 😅 All of this is to say I really liked your video, I doubt you'll see this but if you, do, know that this is one of the best DELTARUNE "theories" I've seen maybe ever, you're excellent at what you do. Sorry for the big block of text, I could go on at length about other things you've made me think about differently but that's wayyy too much for a RUclips comment lol. Subbed!
Genuinely an excellent Deltarune video. Brilliantly spoken, edited, and compiled- really great work! I know the works of Toby Fox aren't solely what you focus on, but, I'd definitely love to see more Deltarune & Undertale videos in the future!
INSANE job on the editing and scripting. Those two alone would be worth a sub, but the actual content of the video are enough to make me (metaphorically) applause.
I think part of the deltarune experience is the theories.. maybe that wasn't always intended but Toby does want us to make guesses and speculation even if ultimately wrong Maybe building up deltarune in my head to be super ultra meta is unrealistic but it's fun Plus there's always fan work to scratch that itch after Deltarune is finished, i hope device theory is real or at least some aspects are correct but that doesn't mean i think Toby will literally do everything Molly speculates It's just fun to fuel the brain rot until we get to the end, and that end will be glorious and probably have a banging final boss track
Amazing video! my favorite theory of Deltarune so far, wey know so little about Kris real thoughts but yet is that what keep us looking for it, even with the little to no info available. Excelent Work dude ✨
This is the best video of a Deltarune "theory" so far I have watched. Don't get me wrong, I love to listening to other peoples ideas on what's to come, but sometimes it gets out of hand and other people's theories butt heads and can cause tension which I don't like so much. Only Toby knows what'll happen and I am so happy that he could make his dream come true. (pun intended....) I'll go to my corner now. haha!
21:59 well that's a little rude, I rly liked Molly's video and it was a fun analysis of the story's themes and not just matpat theory predicting the story type of thing
So did I! I think it's great for what it is, I just don't really agree with the approach that EVERYTHING is lore relevant and warranting Fnaf-Style hyperanalysis.
I feel like this video was kinda overly judgmental and missed the point of alot of peoples approach to theories. Most people theorizing about Deltarune don’t actually think that they’ve got it right, nor is that the point. The reason so many people love digging so deep and hyper focusing on small details as if it’s all leading to a climactic answer is because it’s fun to try. I don’t want to be right, at least not always. I want to continually use evidence to reinterpret this game and look at all the things it could be, we would’ve run out of stuff to talk about a long time ago if we were only looking at what was proven or basically confirmed
Fuck yeah, dude! I didn't mean this as a blanket: "Shut Thine Mouth and let the man cook." I meant it more as "Five Nights At Freddy's Specifically Has Poisoned Our Brains. It's Fun, but we don't HAVE To do it."
@@TheLudomancerIn my opinion if you kill the Crack head theory crafting then the community will slowly fizzle out with a lack of new content. (With the exception of new releases like new chapters or things like the sweepstakes.) The Deltarune community means so much to people and I'm sure that includes you. So I just don't really see a need or even want for insane theories like Jaru's to end, in my opinion it brings new ideas to the table and allows us to reinterpret some of our favorite games regardless of validity. The only problem with that is when people begin to expect their theories to be correct and are disappointed when they aren't, but to be honest I've never really seen that in the deltarune community so I'm not that worried about it. Either way, loved the video hope to see more of your content soon! (Superb editing by the way)
I watch a lot and I mean A LOT of Deltarune theories. I agree that it's borderline impossible to make any meaningful predictions about Deltarune's big mysteries right now as we are just missing so many pieces of the puzzle that will eventually make up Deltarune. In a lot of ways this video serves to critique how fandoms go about theorizing as a whole. It's become a race to "figure out" Deltarune first, which is something we've wanted so desperately for the last 3 years. Yet approaching it like that will never be a productive thing to do because we lack so much of this story. You do a little theorizing about Kris and Ralsei in this video based off of very solid themes and ideas that Deltarune has set up. I guess my question is where does this line between productive theorizing and FNAF-Brained theorizing lie?
Fun vid. Really appreciate the discussion about Kris' identity and how Ralsei tries to affirm it. People sleep on those themes, for both Deltarune and Undertale... Personally I think it's a bit chewier than what you describe. I'm not convinced that Kris and the soul are actually that distinct -- there's clearly an interdependency there, which I think mirrors how the light world and the dark world depend on each other, and thematically how the world and art depend on each other. I think one of the big concerns of Deltarune is how that dependency is managed in healthy and unhealthy ways. Which hugely feeds into your discussion about theorycrafting at the end. I feel very tempted to defend Deltarune theorycrafting here, because I love it and it brings me a lot of joy. I think other people have basically done that though so I won't hound you. I find the disdain/disinterest for FNAF theorycrafting interesting, though. On one hand I totally agree -- people get so hung up on plot, on making stories "make sense", that they forget why stories actually matter, what they do for us. That can be frustrating, especially when you see it everywhere. But on the other hand -- man, I love FNAF theories, and they're the only reason I care about those games! Another RUclipsr named Sunny Dionysus talked about how FNAF games/books/movies provide raw materials, which the fandom uses to collaboratively build a story. In a sense, the fandom "builds FNAF". I watch FNAF theories all the time, but I've never played a single FNAF game. That's because the story I care about is the one that the fandom builds. That's the story I daydream about, and get excited for, and that matters to me. That said, some games certainly do not provide good "raw materials". Hello Neighbour...
This is the best video and my New favourite deltarune video ever. Oh my god I loved it so much! And I've watched probably over 1000h of deltarune Videos
Can you tell that Deltarune is supposed to be a remake of Earthbound Halloween hack? (Especially since both Kris and Varik are names for forgotten JRPGs [Kris being the second protag in the Fire Emblem: Secret of the Emblem remake]
This is an excellent video! finally… someone else acknowledging the difference between watsonian theories and doylist analysis… but anyway, can’t wait to check out the rest of your channel!
I think Ralsei just understands that theyre basically in a story, and everyone has their roles that they can play in a way thats not only painless, but actually more fulfilling than resisting the narrative (like in Snowgrave, although I don’t actually think he considers it a possibility, or else he wouldnt be surprised by the turn of events) - so on that same thought, I think Ralsei is essentially advocating for Kris, as the vessel/protagonist of this story (of which whose presence is indispensable for the story to continue), that they shouldnt resist us and should instead choose to basically placate us into passivity. Or perhaps he’s concocting some sort of plan to be able get Kris/all of then out of this situation? Just some rambling/my two cents. 😅
On one hand, I completely agree but on the other hand, the theorizing is basically what's keeping the community fed at this point until Toby releases Ch. 3 and BOY are we running out of material.
In my opinion, this video really neglects Ralsei attitude towards the Player, yes, he distracts them during cutscenes and says something to Kris, but he also clearly cares about the Player (I personally think that even much more than about Kris) 1) He constantly gives hints on controls, despite how strange it looks 2) He tells us to save in the castle town and go rest 3) He NAMED the town after us 4) In fact, he gives the choice not to Chris but to the player and he knows it 5) And in my opinion, the most important thing: he is trying to hush up the topic with the spamton "it's just a broken program"
About your rant about theory crafting at the end, I have an issue with a sort of reverse of "extremely speculative and game changing theories", that actually ends up having the same problem. I call them "anti-theories". These theories are that despite Toby Fox placing dislogue in the game foreshadowing Mike, the introduction man (who is most likely Gaster), or even the Knight, these detsils are somehow... not foreshadowing, it's either a coincidence or a joke meant to subvert our expectations. None of this makes any sense in the context of the story, when the simplest explanation is that these are just teases and foreshadowing for later. The simplest base theory for the vessel maker guy is that he's a plot point, a Chekov's gun, that will be important to the story later on, even if we don't know how. If you make Deltarune so that the Vessel maker guy ISN'T relevant, that is actually just bad writing and not subversive, good stories don't just introduce plot points, and a framing device, the first thing we see in the game, and have it never matter ever again. Now, how this character will be important is unclear, but this character, as Toby Fox introduced him first, as he's important to the framing device of Deltarune connecting to the player's soul, is basically required to be relevant later in the story, because that's basic setup and payoff.
IN FAIRNESS TO THE DEVICE THEORY It’s not just a theory video It’s several analysis videos with like 1-2 theory videos inside And also a collection of *all* the meta stuff in Deltarune All of it
Yeah. Ik. I love that video. I just think it's also Deeply bloated and the attitude underlying it's creation is that Toby won't actually make good on anything promised by that because Fnaf has Fucked Our Heads.
i mean, yea we need to chill a bit sure *cough* *cough* jaru, but toby is actively encouraging us to theorize, look at the spamton sweepstakes arg; pluslets not forget he is drip feeding us information about future chapter in the newsletter. Similar to what you said, the fnaf brained style of theorizing only becomes a problem when it's an arms race, and even then it's completely on the author. If they are the ones changing their own story to either subvert theories, or just to simply make it more mysterious for the sake of it, logic be damned, or even in the opposite direction sometimes where they change the story just to fit the theories despite what they previously had in mind. It is the author's fault if theorizing is what ruins the story/game. People will always theorize, and given enough time they'll take it to a wildly speculatory degree, regardless of if it's finished or not. The only time in my opinion when it's the theorist fault for taking theory crafting too far is when it is actively disturbing or harming people in real life.
I think people forget that we are still in chapter 2. Most want to solve the whole game and tie up loose ends, but the game is literally just beginning. Do we even know how many chapters we're getting?
hey this is a really great video! and I really REALLY love your editing! its so good! I actually made a somewhat similar video a while ago talking about how the dark world's provide for the characters! but more like... on an individual level if that makes sense. anyway the dark world "providing" is a really great concept I think and I'm glad at least someone has similar thoughts and feelings on it!
Great video! I agree fully that we don't have all the pieces yet, but at the same time I just can't stop trying to put the Deltarune puzzle together. I hope chapters 3 & 4 will be out soon in the new year! P.S. I'm replaying Bloodborne now so I would not mind a lore video born of the blood
As a nonbinary person who is repeatedly misgendered day-to-day, seeing the effort you put into acknowledging and enforcing that Kris is nonbinary and only uses they/them- It means a lot to me. I've had every excuse in the book thrown at me why Kris 'might actually be a boy (or) girl', despite the fact that the game itself gives us the answer repeatedly. I even had one person say it was 'left up to interpretation' which felt like they were missing the whole point of Kris not being a player-stand-in, and you imposing your idea of what binary gender you think they should be, being antithetical to the whole thesis of Kris- ANYWAY- This is an amazing video, the editing is so fun and snappy. Thank you for making great stuff
Admittedly: I am Very dumb and had to do twelve retakes, and I was so anal about it because i DID Accidentally misgender them in a previous video. Glad it paid off!
the irony of me being so scared this was going to be yet another highly disappointing theory video that launches way off what we have even been given that i skipped around to make sure it was good kind of already shows you i heavily agree with all your points here lol. but yeah!! very good video, i feel like everything here really deserves to be said. i too consider myself much more inclined to view things through a doylist lens, its nice to imagine how a character must be feeling when x or y happens, but in the end, its all up to the people creating the work, and how such work is created is worth to be examined from that lens, what led people to make those decisions, what does it mean for them and for the resulting creation? on that path, its funny you mention ralsei so much here, since i also agree its important to view him also from a doylist lens, as in what he adds to the story. i always found it so strange when people acted like he had no purpose or didnt fit in with the story, to me it was kind of clear toby was playing with the ideas of pacifism vs violence when resolving conflict n personifying them in ralsei and susie. not to say thats all they will ever be as characters, but it shocked me how little people seemed to want to read them as thematic foils and jumped to excluding him altogether.
i think that touching on the fnaf way of theorizing in relation to deltarune is super relevant considering that fnaf theorizing got us… basically nowhere? i mean, most of the theories that people base their entire timelines on are shaky at best so why we continue to theorize about EVERY game in that manner is confusing. anyways, loved the editing of this :)
this made me think about ralsei in a way I havent before! i really like the lens of kris being so disconnected from their own identity and that ralsei will play a big role in helping them enjoy being themself again it also fits in with my personal view that ralsei’s darkner object is kris’ old horns, its just so perfect thematically and ralsei’s horns are even pink for christs sake! an old representation of their identity helping kris find themself again! (until toby fox looks me dead in the eyes and tells me im wrong i’ll swear on this)
I believe that asriel knows what is going on and that the player exists and that is why he seems to talk to Chris in between the times where we cut away to watch what Susie is doing and he seems to go quiet about it once we appear again. He's trying to clue Chris in to it
I demand 100k views in a week for this dedication, humor, and editing, plenty of which could be considered animation, or I will be disappointed in the internet >:( That being said, here are some differing perspectives I have: The Dark Worlds _are_ made to help Lightners in universe, the characters just aren't consciously doing so. In Chapter 1, Ralsei explains that a Darkners purpose is to assist Lightners, explaining why Lancer feels fulfilled when he forms a friendship with Susie. Similarly, Queen purposefully tries to make everyone happy, not knowing her actions will cause The Roaring. Considering how meta Toby likes to be, I think Dark Worlds represent escapism in fiction, improving the lives of those partaking in it, letting them run from their ordinary stressful lives, but sometimes being taken too far, although it's too early to know what the consequences are or what they'll be metaphors for Ralsei is a good guy, but is much more concerned with the player having a good time. He doesn't say Susie can't act because it's Kris' thing to encourage their individuality, but because if the main character's power isn't unique, the game would be less fun. While he encourages pacifism, he won't stop you from chasing away every ally, because if he interfered with YOUR choice, the game would be less fun! Even the trophies are common symbols for achievements, but I also imagine as a Darkner assigned to Kris through destiny, he can tell their desires. Kris doesn't hate him, as proven by their reaction to his tea (60hp sounds abysmal but Noelle's, who's a childhood friend, is only 70hp while Ralsei heals 50hp from Noelle's and clearly doesn't despise her) they aren't the most comfortable, either. This is probably due to him looking like but not being Asriel and him prioritizing us, giving him an uncanny feeling to them. What I believe his character arc to be is learning who he is, better connecting to Kris, and if the player keeps doing horrible things he'll FINALLY defy you Theorizing, for as bad as it's gotten, is an act of lowercase love (basically what you're saying but extrapolated) In an age where an eight minute video is considered "yapping," where fandoms are expected to die in one year, where the tiniest observations are met with "it's not that deep bro," earnest, unashamed analysis of story themes no matter how unhinged are the refreshing antidote to the brainrot infection. Plus, for as many mistakes/one-off lines are genuinely unimportant, there are _so many_ that the Deltarune Team have been intentional with! If I put out a creative project and somebody went over every detail, even if they came to conclusions I never meant to imply, I'd be over the moon (as long as they weren't harmful). Sadly, nowadays a lot of theories are concerned with being _correct,_ treating narratives like perfect logic puzzles and everything not contributing to that being useless filler instead of the lore being relevant but background information for the themes and characters to shine. All power to 'em if that's what they enjoy, but I'd love if we got back to caring about emotions over being right May you find success with whatever fulfills you :D
Why do people keep saying that the idea that the soul seems to make Kris do things without our inputs means an "third entity"? Wouldnt it make more sense that it would be more elaboration on the "entity" we are in the game? With that i mean, we only have like two chapters, very vague details on what is even going on, so would it really be that far fetched to suggest that the soul itself, that "we" are, is in fact an fully fledged character of its own and not "us" in an literal way? We even get hints such as Toby pre release tweets hinting that before the intro sequence the entity we seem to be were in an "dark and cold place" which wouldnt make sense if it was just Twitter.
With the darkners "being made" to help lightners to some degree makes sense. They do place a lot of emphasis on the fact that darkners/exist/ to help lightners. That that is their purpose. I don't know if they're tailor made for people who step in but helping lightners is their reason for being so it would make sense that most folks who stray into a dark world would be helped in a similar way
My most problematic Deltarune opinion is that the religious element is gonna be Turbo-Relevant. This isn't related to anything but I hang off of every word uttered about the occult/the church in this game.
@@TheLudomancer There has already been a lot of focus on it, so I wouldn't be shocked. Even if it's not a "face level plotpoint" it will, at the very least, be incredibly philisophically and thematically relevant.
What's wrong with religion? Without it, humanity dies.
@@josephbulkin9222 bruh, this is DELTARUNE not actual theology.
Toby Fox and those who know him have spoken a few times about how he was raised Christian and went to church growing up, and whether or not he's still a man of faith, it definitely seems to have played a role in his storytelling sensibilities. So far he seems to be taking a rather considerate approach towards religion, and I wonder just how deeply clashes against theology will be explored, especially given the player's role as a sort of religious figure in universe (whether that aspect is angelic or demonic remains to be seen.)
@@josephbulkin9222 I mean that doesn't mean there's not things to critique about it, it is used as a justification for a great many crimes and persecutions in modern society. Religion has been immensely helpful throughout history, but that doesn't mean it will always be necessary. I mean there are plenty of modern secular institutions and people who live non-religious lives.
Of course I believe that people should always be able to have faith without being persecuted or looked down on for it, but to say that without it humanity would die is an exaggeration at this current point in time.
This is already EASILY one of my favorite deltarune videos ever made. The comedy, editing, and analysis are all SPECTACULAR
Eh, I prefer This Guy's Earlier Work
Literally read the beginning of your comment and being a picky fan of deltarune content, I felt confident to immediately subscribe
@@TheLudomanceryeah dude, like, wtf
I used to think this guys editing was on another level but honestly it is probably fifteen stories up
Sully. :O
It's impressive on a technical level but a bit too fast-paced for me. Thankfully RUclips lets you slow down videos!
I forgot you became obsessed with editing at some point.
@ huh? Editing is literally all I talk about😭😭
So the reason "Theory" is in quotation marks is because the video tells us to stop theorizing. Gigabrain move right there.
But... but... theorizing is so fun! *Jevil sad noises*
It would be very cool if the implication of "So that's why, Kris." is in response to something Kris said explaining to Ralsei. Rather than framing Ralsei.
Though the implications of the weird route blindsiding him seems very, very interesting.
4:24 Toby Fox, the man who sh*t posted his way to success
holy shit this is an INSANELY edited video
Ye. I Do That. Thanks!
Not only is the script of this video fantastic analysis as well as being hilarious, BUT THE EDITING ADDS SO MUCH FLAVOUR HOW HAVE YOU NOT BLOWN UP YET???
Because my upload schedule is Annual.
i haven't watched any DR theories in a hot minute, and i have been summoned to this one on behalf of someone i know telling me! in fact, i actually remember seeing your other vid about toby some time ago and your editing/pacing is rlly fucking good, first off ^^ extremely well done video overall, i hope it pops off.
i wanna start by saying that i really like your take on ralsei's relation to kris a lot, especially through the lens of ralsei trying to get to the bottom of kris's struggles, and Possibly sending us away to susie/noelle in ch1 and 2 for that purpose; to talk to the Actual kris just bc he barely actually gets the chance to. that, and i think you hit the nail right on the head with your analysis of kris in general, and their struggle to find identity. as someone that spent A Lot of time mainly looking at ralsei's relationship with the player, i feel i still pretty easily underestimate how complex ralsei's dialogue and character can get. you pointing out how often he specifically says the name of who he's speaking to is another thing i missed that just adds to that, i only really paid attention to that when it was referring to kris, but yeah he really just does that with fucking Everybody and Everywhere huh.
i think through this theory, it kind of makes the moments where kris pulls out the SOUL actually work in favor of it, because if it's true that ralsei's keeping the player out of those interactions with kris specifically so he can help them find their identity, knowing how much control we have over them, then that honestly just seems Correct to me. as long as we are able to do anything more than simply watch, we are going to be muddying up the waters of what kris actually Feels and wants to say, and it would make a lot of sense that ralsei understands that and needs to go as far as to shunting us elsewhere to help kris in that sense. i never really had a Good idea of what the two of them could've been talking about in those scenes, but for now, i'm willing to just work with that lol.
all that said though, please do not ever group me in again with matpat/"FNAF-brained" theorizing /lh
genuinely though, i'm sick to death myself of that fucking series and the goalpost moving that it kept doing to perpetuate mystery just for the hell of it! i share your sentiments a lot abt not only the fact that the story is incomplete, but especially that we can't simply condense everything the game and narrative is about into Just one bubble, and use that to Confidently tell us where the story is actually going; especially when indeed, the story is still Going, and while we Can find potential foreshadowing in some places, the game hasn't gotten to actually say what it wants to say yet. i never really approached it assuming that i Knew its message, as much as i just was like "well...how much *can* we know, anyway? where can we actually hit a wall, if we really dug a bit deeper into this? what's actually the limit for now?"
i do understand that after a point in PART 3, i did use the theory i presented in the first hour + what i could parse of its themes as a means of making my own pretty out there predictions, and i completely get that not being everyone's thing! i made sure to show that i wasn't making that whole video to be correct, let alone to "solve" DELTARUNE objectively, as much as i just wanted those thoughts out of my head before the next chapters were out; i didn't make those other 5 hours for toby, or for anyone really, other than myself, they were just the questions i was asking and what i was thinking with the incomplete picture we currently have, to give myself the closure of "what do i Personally think DELTARUNE is telling me so far, given the impact it and UNDERTALE left on me?". it definitely was flawed mainly in that it looked at stuff only through the meta lens a lot, and leaned a bit too hard on some of those themes, but i knew that going in.
obviously, i wasn't gonna fuckin solve DELTARUNE in 3 videos. and obviously, we don't have the full picture, but i suppose my gripe with grouping me in w/ matpat of all people, is i feel it kind of misrepresents what i was really going for with that video overall, and my intent behind it; i'm never gonna claim to know toby personally, or to know his intent through Facts and Diegetic Logic, because as someone working on my own original projects, i know you can't exactly do that from the outside looking in, and it's possible people will misinterpret your work even when they Do have the full picture (death of the author, etc). i think that grouping it in with that sort of theorizing kinda gives this impression that i made that video as my crazy guess at predicting the whole game, and that it's a 6 and a half hour long "bravo Toby Fox you thought of literally Everything", which feels a bit misrepresenting of it? at most, it's my way of thanking him for the impact his stuff's left on me, but i don't think he Thought of Literally Everything that i was speculating about. i know damn well i'm just kind of mentally ill and reading way too deep into it, because i love telling stories myself and analyzing how other people do it, so i can learn something from them. i know when 3 and 4 are out, i'm not gonna be giving a shit about my theories of the game on launch, i'll just want to experience them for what they are. if anything, i think what you said at the end of this video is a point i was trying to make multiple times throughout, that we just don't have everything yet, and DELTARUNE simply can't be solved because it's not a Complete work at the moment. and while TDT Was my interpretations, i Could Be Wrong, and i am Fine with being wrong, and i do think there's a very real chunk of the community that's putting a bit too much stock into stuff, and setting these really specific and unreasonable expectations. but if you don't know what's being cooked yet, it's at least fun to take guesses at what you're about to even eat in the first place, no? as long as you trust that it's gonna be some good food whether or not you're right, i don't think it's inherently a harmful way to look at stuff, you just have to look at it as what it Could be rather than what it HAS to be, and i think that's what a lot of people are missing.
i wouldn't even call how you addressed part 3 a flaw, as much as i think it just highlights how needed this kinda discussion has been in the community. it's something i've been wanting to see more of, and even throw my hat into the ring to tbh as we get closer to the new chapters coming out. i don't like to look at TDT as my attempt at solving or "predicting" it, as much as it was me getting the worst of the brainrot out of my system so i can enjoy 3-4 with a fresh mind. i do still believe some of the stuff in TDT, but i'm not gonna ride or die by it (aside from Gaster not being the second voice in the goner maker, that is the one hill i will die on lmao). i'm just kinda here to see what the rest of it is like now that i got my thoughts out.
again, incredibly edited and well done video overall! you've got a way of pacing stuff that feels super concise, but it doesn't feel like it's going Too fast either, and it was super fun to watch
Holy shit mollystars deltarune
Thx for the last bit. I hate people who say "we'll be disapointed". I wont. Im just here for the ride and will enjoy the ending of deltarune, even if its not "what everyone wanted" ❤
YOU! YOU GET IT! GODS THIS IS SO GOOD TO SEE!! Especially since the high energy of this video and comedic elements are just so electrifying! I love this so much! Such a breath of fresh air!
4:26 Why not both? Something can be metatextually significant AND a comedic gag, it doesn't have to be one or the other.
i like this video and agree with most of what you say-i’ve been saying for a while that fnaf game theory stuff has had a terrible impact on how people on the internet think about and analyze complex media, and that those kinds of people hit the exact wall you talk about when faced with a work that carefully controls viewer-facing information and doesn’t want to be “solved” before the end. i distinctly remember the petscop community feeling the same restless frustration you talk about that many of us feel now, and people coming to the same conclusions.
however, i do take umbrage with the device theory video being used as an example of what you were talking about at the end there. as someone who has watched it all the way through it’s almost entirely thematic analysis and predicting the general trajectory of the rest of the story based on that rather than specific events, which the creator makes explicitly clear she thinks doing is largely a fool’s errand, for the same reasons you do. i think it’s disingenuous to cite it as fnafcore illiterate theory brainrot based entirely on the length even just as a bit
Awesome comment! We have VERY different reads on The Device Theory videos. I think the way she looked at Every Single Element, treating it as something critical and worth complex Watsonian analysis, especially in the first two videos is functionally indistinguishable from the FNaF approach. eg: Her (very self-aware) point on the Yellow Soul as divine intervention.
Even if she only included things for sake of completeness and voiced non-confidence in it, it was still included. It works great as a sort of documentary and omni-resource for future reference, but the feeling that such cataloguing and base-covering is absolutely necessary, Is the FNaF approach I don't agree with. eg: I COULD have gone over the vessel, and by extension Gaster and by extension the Egg Man in depth to further go over Kris' identity dilemma. But I didn't feel it was necessary.
I don't say "FNaF-brained" derogatorily, to imply unilateral illiteracy to any of it's strongest soldiers, or have any real judgement on the topic. My issue is with FNaF and it's influence. Not the things people have made under that influence.
@ ohh yeah that’s actually very fair! honestly i kind of mentally glossed over those first two videos because i watched them so long ago and i already know most of it lol, which is a bit of an analytical mistake because those are indeed part of device theory. i do see what you mean about that being like the fnaf approach, yeah, though i do think she goes about it in the most constructive way possible, being, as you said, self-aware with it.
and i think the main thing when it comes to these things is to have an awareness to reign it in. hyperanalysis can be fun, but there’s a time and place for it, and other times where you just need to keep it simple stupid. and those watsonian vs doylist lenses can help guide you towards figuring out what is important. like, to me, i’ve never found it worth reading into susie dragging off ralsei in chapter 2 because it’s obvious she’s not doing it deliberately-though i would say that there’s something to Our Experience seeming to be almost perfectly handcrafted, and how that much seems intentional. maybe it’s not the dark worlds themselves and it’s gaster or something, but it’s always easy to say a wizard did it.
and yeah, to add more nuance: i don’t want to throw any shade towards the fnaf community either, because i enjoy hearing what they have to say-i keep eyeballing that one “we solved fnaf and we’re Not Kidding” video. my problem is very much like yours (i felt very vindicated hearing someone else say it lol) in that the fallout of fnaf has highly encouraged hyperanalysis without thematic substance.
because, to be honest, in my opinion, fnaf itself just has absolutely nothing going on there under the hood. it’s almost entirely window dressing and complexity for complexity’s sake and most of the story has no actual thematic weight, no *point*, whatsoever. there’s traces, hints at themes, impactful moments, but very little in the way of meaningful things to say overall. and you can tell where the creator’s priorities lie by the fact that he changed stuff around behind the scenes when people Figured It Out with regards to a future installment-if people Solve The Mystery and know what happens, then they’ll stop caring about his game, won’t they?
therefore, most of the analysis of it is just trying to figure out what the fuck even happened, with thematic analysis playing second hat. and i think this has been an unfortunate lesson for a whole generation of people growing up on the internet-prioritizing hyperanalysis of events rather than their meaning, with this sort of mindset carrying over to less extreme examples. whether they realize it or not, the children yearn for the media analysis, and they’re learning it from the internet, not english classes. this is Street Analysis. the curtains are fucking blue.
thankfully, in 2024, more people are open to discussing whether the curtains really are just fucking blue.
also-i love your editing style! it very much scratches my brain in just the right way
The intro is probably one of the beste examples of how without exaggeration Deltarune is a clusterfuck of lore and thematic tissue forming an amalgamation of hopes and dreams that threatens our dreams and livelihood by being SO peak.
thank you so much for so many references to kris being nonbinary and being so upfront about it, as a nonbinary deltarune fan it can be kinda infuriating when people just sweep that aspect of this character under the rug or misgender them entirely (either maliciously or because they dont care enough to pay attention to the text)
So far three humans from the game seem to be nonbinary, makes me wonder if humans in undertale world are just born nonbinary or if main characters are just choosen to be like this, might be worth a theory tbh
@@grianjuju9438 Dunno, I think Chris is Nonbinary both for the same reason Chara and Frisk were, and to further point to the identity crisis they are having.
But if we really want to point and poke at plot shenanigans and 4 wall chicanery, in-spite of the message of the video:
So now that for all intents and purposes GOD has determined even their gender identity as ambiguous and or "other", it further exacerbates their crisis, as they can't even lean into gendered stereotypes to form an identity from. (like trying to be the popular girl, or the Chad Sportsjock).
Or they just don't know
@@grianjuju9438 A lot of classic RPGs used to let you name the main character. Undertale/Deltarune kinda twists that concept on it's head by letting you name the main character but leaving their gender up in the air making them a true "blank slate" to us, the player at first. As we play the game however, we find that the "blank slate" character does have their own name and not the one we gave them originally(though in Deltarune we find the main character's name right away--we named a vessel which was discarded.). However, the gender of the main character, Kris is still left up in the air. It could be said that was done for the audience to be able to relate to Kris as a character better in general as Kris the human rather than Kris the boy or Kris the girl.
I’m genuinely disappointed that Ludo didn’t make a “They/Them tires”
2:11 INSTANT sub. Those first two minutes have perfectly encapsulated everything I feel about Deltarune theories lmao
I really like the realistic analysis, that acknowledges, that not everything must be super deep and sometimes it is just there for the story telling and building of relationships.
Im only 3 minutes in and your editing sold me instantly oh my god
Yea, It tends to do that :D
When I clicked on this video, all of... _this_ is not what I was expecting, but I clearly needed it in my life
THE KRIS ANALYSIS VIDEO IS HERE EVERYONE STAY CALM STAY FUCKING CALM
Edit: okay, finished watching a video and honestly really LOVE the idea that Kris has identity problems. Considering they are the only human in a small city, that have a difficult relationship with people around them, that often defined through their past behaviour(aka problem kid) and who just lost a probably the only stable and supportive figure in their life(aka Asriel) it’s easy to see how they can get lost in who they are. And darkworld being a sort of free-safe playground for them to explore the idea of who they are and can be, through convoluted scenarios and other people. LIKE THIS IS GENIUS, everyone will point out the empty shelves in their room but no one will ask why in-universe they are empty. Also It’s relatable personally to me, so plus points for that. Cannot wait for more videos!!
Yeah, but speculating is fun. We don't need to be able to "solve" Deltarune to have fun trying
I don't even disagree with the bulk of this video, unhinged theories can be really bad for discourse if they are taken too seriously, but it feels like you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater because we can't realistically have all the answers right now
Yeah! And I almost hope that the theories won't be correct, and that despite all the digging there was still things that can suprise us. But digging is still fun tho and keeps the fandom alive! I love the believable, well researched ones but the crack theories are also fun in their own right :D
I love seeing the game I love from many perspectives that I couldn't think of
Yeah! I’m just arguing that we’re so primed to do it because FNAF set the bad precedent that we NEED to, which, we don’t. Just because I’m not personally a fan of the attitude doesn’t mean I’m condemning it.
Ok, but FNAF also doesn't have a story
I'm gonna say it...! What FNaF and its community have done to the internet is a fascinating phenomenon and, while I personally don't like it (hence the reason why I ditched it and didn't really enjoy any Game Theory videos on FNaF past the 7th or so), there is still a huge difference between FNaF and Deltarune/Undertale. Toby is a phenomenal writer, composer and shitposter, Scott isn't. That's it, that's all I need to say.
I think there's a very good reason why Undertale and Deltarune have stayed so beloved and so relevant all these years without much of it having been released (one Undertale 9 years ago, 2 chapters of Deltarune), while the Five Nights at Freddy's franchise HAD to have a ton of incoherent things released again and again to keep the community captivated. It has gotten to the point where nothing makes sense anymore and it's clear Scott didn't have any particular idea from the beginning. Toby, on the other hand, knows EXACTLY what he's creating. And people have taken note of that, so they like theorising, they like analysing things, even if they're just gags.
So that's why, Kris.
also this entire video is sooo good I LOVE THE EDITING AND YOUR HUMOR JSHDJHSF
You have something GENUINELY compelling, well written, and presented in a fun and engaging way here. but you throw it all out to say "Well, we can't know for sure, so stop thinking!!!". Nobody can know the meaning of life for sure, nobody can know if life exists on other planets for sure, nobody can tell where their own life will go, but we still think about these things anyways. Deltarune can't be solved yet, but I can say that personally trying to solve it has been a fun experience in of itself, and like any game, I will miss it when its solved. Ive made so many friends and happy memories in this community, and I wouldn't be involved if I just said "Well we can't be certain, so might as well move on!". The example you give for "giving this game too much credit", Mollystars' Device Theory. is something it's creator cares deeply about, and effected her life profoundly.
I don't see how theorizing takes away from the meaning of a piece of media, lots of stories are confusing and require mental effort to put together in a comprehensive way. Primer, House of Leaves, Hell, thats what the entire _mystery_ genre is about! And simplifying all these stories down to "just like FNaF lol" is over generalizing. Putting together a theory requires mulling over every single line of dialogue in the game I love, its through theorizing that I've grown to understand Deltarune, and saying "well none of it matters, maybe Toby just didn't think about it that hard..." is frankly an insult to Toby and the game he is making.
A story is meant to be understood and interpreted, and even if our solutions, our interpretations turn out to be wrong, that doesn't make the story we're going to get any worse, nor does it make that interpretation less impactful before we know what the "correct" solution is. But _taking away_ meaning because "we don't know for sure!" only takes away possibilities and meaning for other people. No wonder this is such a meaningless video.
This was an incredibly sobering video. This is a very well put together, realistic analysis that you should be really proud of, not to mention the fantastic editing! Magnifique👌
You've really readjusted my perspective on the story for this game, to be honest I've seen so many wild theories and speculations from other people that I've become completely lost in what my thoughts are of the story anymore. You've reminded me to just take the story as it comes and enjoy it, and I am very grateful for that. Thank you for making this video, I think it's so much more "grounded" than most of what I've seen since Chapter 2 released if that makes sense. Thinking of the game's central theme as Kris' identity crisis is something I haven't thought of until I watched this, I think it's definitely how I'll look at the game's story going forward (or until more concrete stuff is revealed I guess). OH! And not to mention I really like your interpretation of Ralsei's character, I've always thought that the reason he doesn't make much headway with Kris in affirming their identity is because he doesn't know who he is or what he wants to be either. I think once he learns what being 'Ralsei-like' really is then he will be able to connect with and help Kris in a much more genuine way. I've thought this ever since the Swan boat scene and you've nailed it down in a much more eloquent way than I ever could. I've really struggled to figure what exactly his narrative purpose is and it's a little embarrassing that it took you laying this out for me to see something so simple aha 😅
All of this is to say I really liked your video, I doubt you'll see this but if you, do, know that this is one of the best DELTARUNE "theories" I've seen maybe ever, you're excellent at what you do. Sorry for the big block of text, I could go on at length about other things you've made me think about differently but that's wayyy too much for a RUclips comment lol. Subbed!
Fairly confident with the respect and depth of your feedback you’ll hear from the Ludomancer
“You can’t make me make the narrator video.” Good news! Andrew Cunningham did it for you (and agrees).
out of everything I expected to see in a Deltarune video essay, MatPat/Scott Cawthon mpreg was not it. 10/10 video
Genuinely an excellent Deltarune video. Brilliantly spoken, edited, and compiled- really great work! I know the works of Toby Fox aren't solely what you focus on, but, I'd definitely love to see more Deltarune & Undertale videos in the future!
INSANE job on the editing and scripting. Those two alone would be worth a sub, but the actual content of the video are enough to make me (metaphorically) applause.
This is one of the best Deltarune video I've seen ever actually, incredible editing and a really good theory as well. Well done my friend!
The editing & script writing oh MY ANGEL
WHY aren't you more popular!?!?!
Also happy new year! :D
I think part of the deltarune experience is the theories.. maybe that wasn't always intended but Toby does want us to make guesses and speculation even if ultimately wrong
Maybe building up deltarune in my head to be super ultra meta is unrealistic but it's fun
Plus there's always fan work to scratch that itch after Deltarune is finished, i hope device theory is real or at least some aspects are correct but that doesn't mean i think Toby will literally do everything Molly speculates
It's just fun to fuel the brain rot until we get to the end, and that end will be glorious and probably have a banging final boss track
GREAT editing btw. Didn't know if you'd keep it up throughout the entire video, but you really sent it. Nice stuff!
the production value on this video is actually crazy
Amazing video! my favorite theory of Deltarune so far, wey know so little about Kris real thoughts but yet is that what keep us looking for it, even with the little to no info available. Excelent Work dude ✨
This is the best video of a Deltarune "theory" so far I have watched. Don't get me wrong, I love to listening to other peoples ideas on what's to come, but sometimes it gets out of hand and other people's theories butt heads and can cause tension which I don't like so much.
Only Toby knows what'll happen and I am so happy that he could make his dream come true. (pun intended....) I'll go to my corner now. haha!
yo the editing on this video is crazy! keep up the good work 👍
spider bake sale
spiber bake sale
cyber bake sale
your move, theorists
Also holy moley production value is up for this
Friend inside... inside the uhhhhhhhhh... uhhh i forgo
21:59 well that's a little rude, I rly liked Molly's video and it was a fun analysis of the story's themes and not just matpat theory predicting the story type of thing
Yeah, I'm not sure if they actually watched it
The longer a video the deeper the darkness.
@@123phi123 they literally talk more about it at the end of the video?
they acknowledge and state that vwry sentiment at the end of the video? yeah, im not sure if u actually watched it
So did I! I think it's great for what it is, I just don't really agree with the approach that EVERYTHING is lore relevant and warranting Fnaf-Style hyperanalysis.
Neat analysis video! Thanks for uploading! The editing & presentation is quite notable!
17:10 i wasn't ready for water cat XD now i have to clean my drink off the floor.
05:22 bro I love these transitions
I feel like this video was kinda overly judgmental and missed the point of alot of peoples approach to theories. Most people theorizing about Deltarune don’t actually think that they’ve got it right, nor is that the point. The reason so many people love digging so deep and hyper focusing on small details as if it’s all leading to a climactic answer is because it’s fun to try. I don’t want to be right, at least not always. I want to continually use evidence to reinterpret this game and look at all the things it could be, we would’ve run out of stuff to talk about a long time ago if we were only looking at what was proven or basically confirmed
Fuck yeah, dude! I didn't mean this as a blanket: "Shut Thine Mouth and let the man cook." I meant it more as "Five Nights At Freddy's Specifically Has Poisoned Our Brains. It's Fun, but we don't HAVE To do it."
@@TheLudomancerIn my opinion if you kill the Crack head theory crafting then the community will slowly fizzle out with a lack of new content. (With the exception of new releases like new chapters or things like the sweepstakes.)
The Deltarune community means so much to people and I'm sure that includes you. So I just don't really see a need or even want for insane theories like Jaru's to end, in my opinion it brings new ideas to the table and allows us to reinterpret some of our favorite games regardless of validity.
The only problem with that is when people begin to expect their theories to be correct and are disappointed when they aren't, but to be honest I've never really seen that in the deltarune community so I'm not that worried about it.
Either way, loved the video hope to see more of your content soon! (Superb editing by the way)
I watch a lot and I mean A LOT of Deltarune theories. I agree that it's borderline impossible to make any meaningful predictions about Deltarune's big mysteries right now as we are just missing so many pieces of the puzzle that will eventually make up Deltarune. In a lot of ways this video serves to critique how fandoms go about theorizing as a whole. It's become a race to "figure out" Deltarune first, which is something we've wanted so desperately for the last 3 years. Yet approaching it like that will never be a productive thing to do because we lack so much of this story. You do a little theorizing about Kris and Ralsei in this video based off of very solid themes and ideas that Deltarune has set up. I guess my question is where does this line between productive theorizing and FNAF-Brained theorizing lie?
Oh my god, the editing in the intro is insane
Blender is a Lovely program.
Fun vid. Really appreciate the discussion about Kris' identity and how Ralsei tries to affirm it. People sleep on those themes, for both Deltarune and Undertale... Personally I think it's a bit chewier than what you describe. I'm not convinced that Kris and the soul are actually that distinct -- there's clearly an interdependency there, which I think mirrors how the light world and the dark world depend on each other, and thematically how the world and art depend on each other. I think one of the big concerns of Deltarune is how that dependency is managed in healthy and unhealthy ways. Which hugely feeds into your discussion about theorycrafting at the end.
I feel very tempted to defend Deltarune theorycrafting here, because I love it and it brings me a lot of joy. I think other people have basically done that though so I won't hound you. I find the disdain/disinterest for FNAF theorycrafting interesting, though. On one hand I totally agree -- people get so hung up on plot, on making stories "make sense", that they forget why stories actually matter, what they do for us. That can be frustrating, especially when you see it everywhere. But on the other hand -- man, I love FNAF theories, and they're the only reason I care about those games! Another RUclipsr named Sunny Dionysus talked about how FNAF games/books/movies provide raw materials, which the fandom uses to collaboratively build a story. In a sense, the fandom "builds FNAF".
I watch FNAF theories all the time, but I've never played a single FNAF game. That's because the story I care about is the one that the fandom builds. That's the story I daydream about, and get excited for, and that matters to me.
That said, some games certainly do not provide good "raw materials". Hello Neighbour...
This is the best video and my New favourite deltarune video ever. Oh my god I loved it so much! And I've watched probably over 1000h of deltarune Videos
Can you tell that Deltarune is supposed to be a remake of Earthbound Halloween hack? (Especially since both Kris and Varik are names for forgotten JRPGs [Kris being the second protag in the Fire Emblem: Secret of the Emblem remake]
FEMTANYL MENTIONED
fire video btw
My favorite "theory" video I've ever watched by far. Absolutely phenomenal work.
This is an excellent video! finally… someone else acknowledging the difference between watsonian theories and doylist analysis… but anyway, can’t wait to check out the rest of your channel!
i am literally only at 2:17 and I would devote 75% of my life to hear this man rant at the *_m i n i m u m_*
jokes aside you have gained a subscriber
I think Ralsei just understands that theyre basically in a story, and everyone has their roles that they can play in a way thats not only painless, but actually more fulfilling than resisting the narrative (like in Snowgrave, although I don’t actually think he considers it a possibility, or else he wouldnt be surprised by the turn of events) - so on that same thought, I think Ralsei is essentially advocating for Kris, as the vessel/protagonist of this story (of which whose presence is indispensable for the story to continue), that they shouldnt resist us and should instead choose to basically placate us into passivity. Or perhaps he’s concocting some sort of plan to be able get Kris/all of then out of this situation? Just some rambling/my two cents. 😅
Great video btw 🙏
On one hand, I completely agree but on the other hand, the theorizing is basically what's keeping the community fed at this point until Toby releases Ch. 3 and BOY are we running out of material.
i had a dream last night that deltarune released and it was 30 chapters long, we just couldn’t scroll down the chapter menu so we couldn’t see it
The humor in the editing is unmatched.
In my opinion, this video really neglects Ralsei attitude towards the Player, yes, he distracts them during cutscenes and says something to Kris, but he also clearly cares about the Player (I personally think that even much more than about Kris)
1) He constantly gives hints on controls, despite how strange it looks
2) He tells us to save in the castle town and go rest
3) He NAMED the town after us
4) In fact, he gives the choice not to Chris but to the player and he knows it
5) And in my opinion, the most important thing: he is trying to hush up the topic with the spamton "it's just a broken program"
About your rant about theory crafting at the end, I have an issue with a sort of reverse of "extremely speculative and game changing theories", that actually ends up having the same problem. I call them "anti-theories".
These theories are that despite Toby Fox placing dislogue in the game foreshadowing Mike, the introduction man (who is most likely Gaster), or even the Knight, these detsils are somehow... not foreshadowing, it's either a coincidence or a joke meant to subvert our expectations.
None of this makes any sense in the context of the story, when the simplest explanation is that these are just teases and foreshadowing for later. The simplest base theory for the vessel maker guy is that he's a plot point, a Chekov's gun, that will be important to the story later on, even if we don't know how.
If you make Deltarune so that the Vessel maker guy ISN'T relevant, that is actually just bad writing and not subversive, good stories don't just introduce plot points, and a framing device, the first thing we see in the game, and have it never matter ever again. Now, how this character will be important is unclear, but this character, as Toby Fox introduced him first, as he's important to the framing device of Deltarune connecting to the player's soul, is basically required to be relevant later in the story, because that's basic setup and payoff.
IN FAIRNESS TO THE DEVICE THEORY
It’s not just a theory video
It’s several analysis videos with like 1-2 theory videos inside
And also a collection of *all* the meta stuff in Deltarune
All of it
Yeah. Ik. I love that video. I just think it's also Deeply bloated and the attitude underlying it's creation is that Toby won't actually make good on anything promised by that because Fnaf has Fucked Our Heads.
Oh my god this feels like a game theory “The SCIENCE of” video but it’s lore theorizing and I love it
Didn't expect to hear Rachmaninoff in a video about Deltarune
First one to reference it. You got Class on ya.
i mean, yea we need to chill a bit sure *cough* *cough* jaru, but toby is actively encouraging us to theorize, look at the spamton sweepstakes arg; pluslets not forget he is drip feeding us information about future chapter in the newsletter. Similar to what you said, the fnaf brained style of theorizing only becomes a problem when it's an arms race, and even then it's completely on the author. If they are the ones changing their own story to either subvert theories, or just to simply make it more mysterious for the sake of it, logic be damned, or even in the opposite direction sometimes where they change the story just to fit the theories despite what they previously had in mind. It is the author's fault if theorizing is what ruins the story/game. People will always theorize, and given enough time they'll take it to a wildly speculatory degree, regardless of if it's finished or not. The only time in my opinion when it's the theorist fault for taking theory crafting too far is when it is actively disturbing or harming people in real life.
I think people forget that we are still in chapter 2. Most want to solve the whole game and tie up loose ends, but the game is literally just beginning. Do we even know how many chapters we're getting?
hey this is a really great video! and I really REALLY love your editing! its so good! I actually made a somewhat similar video a while ago talking about how the dark world's provide for the characters! but more like... on an individual level if that makes sense. anyway the dark world "providing" is a really great concept I think and I'm glad at least someone has similar thoughts and feelings on it!
Great video! I agree fully that we don't have all the pieces yet, but at the same time I just can't stop trying to put the Deltarune puzzle together. I hope chapters 3 & 4 will be out soon in the new year!
P.S. I'm replaying Bloodborne now so I would not mind a lore video born of the blood
That french Emet-Selch jumpscare was completely unexpected. Le faquin...
As a nonbinary person who is repeatedly misgendered day-to-day, seeing the effort you put into acknowledging and enforcing that Kris is nonbinary and only uses they/them- It means a lot to me. I've had every excuse in the book thrown at me why Kris 'might actually be a boy (or) girl', despite the fact that the game itself gives us the answer repeatedly. I even had one person say it was 'left up to interpretation' which felt like they were missing the whole point of Kris not being a player-stand-in, and you imposing your idea of what binary gender you think they should be, being antithetical to the whole thesis of Kris- ANYWAY-
This is an amazing video, the editing is so fun and snappy. Thank you for making great stuff
Admittedly: I am Very dumb and had to do twelve retakes, and I was so anal about it because i DID Accidentally misgender them in a previous video. Glad it paid off!
@@TheLudomancer The effort is appreciated and noted. Slip-ups do happen to all of us (even myself) The effort is what matters, hell yea
Bbg where are your subscribers this shit is HIGH QUALITY
@@_delta_music_ I think they fell in the couch cushions lemme check
the first few minutes were so.. look at the bottle to make sure you aren't taking too many adderall at once (very good video)
YOOOO, NEW LUDOMANCER VIDEO! AND ITS ABOUT DELTARINE? GONNA GOBBLE THAT GOOD SHIT UP AFTER WORK!
the irony of me being so scared this was going to be yet another highly disappointing theory video that launches way off what we have even been given that i skipped around to make sure it was good kind of already shows you i heavily agree with all your points here lol. but yeah!! very good video, i feel like everything here really deserves to be said. i too consider myself much more inclined to view things through a doylist lens, its nice to imagine how a character must be feeling when x or y happens, but in the end, its all up to the people creating the work, and how such work is created is worth to be examined from that lens, what led people to make those decisions, what does it mean for them and for the resulting creation?
on that path, its funny you mention ralsei so much here, since i also agree its important to view him also from a doylist lens, as in what he adds to the story. i always found it so strange when people acted like he had no purpose or didnt fit in with the story, to me it was kind of clear toby was playing with the ideas of pacifism vs violence when resolving conflict n personifying them in ralsei and susie. not to say thats all they will ever be as characters, but it shocked me how little people seemed to want to read them as thematic foils and jumped to excluding him altogether.
Use of "Porque no las dos?" girl gets immediate "like'n'subscribe" action.
How can we be ready for chapter 3 and 4 when 3 years later people are already consistently making really high quality theories and essays
9:46 FEMTANYL HOLY SHIT !!??!!!!!!??!!
HOW DOES THIS ONLY HAVE 500 VIEWS??? love this video btw
This is like if Max0r had made a theory video. I mean this as a compliment.
i think that touching on the fnaf way of theorizing in relation to deltarune is super relevant considering that fnaf theorizing got us… basically nowhere? i mean, most of the theories that people base their entire timelines on are shaky at best so why we continue to theorize about EVERY game in that manner is confusing. anyways, loved the editing of this :)
It took watching way too many theory videos for me to realize "Oh, right. Only 2/7ths of the game are out. We are grasping at straws."
this made me think about ralsei in a way I havent before! i really like the lens of kris being so disconnected from their own identity and that ralsei will play a big role in helping them enjoy being themself again
it also fits in with my personal view that ralsei’s darkner object is kris’ old horns, its just so perfect thematically and ralsei’s horns are even pink for christs sake! an old representation of their identity helping kris find themself again! (until toby fox looks me dead in the eyes and tells me im wrong i’ll swear on this)
10:05 and piles of asriel dust
Is this darkness some sort of Agency of sorts?
The legend returns
I believe that asriel knows what is going on and that the player exists and that is why he seems to talk to Chris in between the times where we cut away to watch what Susie is doing and he seems to go quiet about it once we appear again. He's trying to clue Chris in to it
*Kris
*Kris
@drago3036 whatever I think that ralsei is the lightener that is his brother and that he knows what happened to Dess in the dark world
I demand 100k views in a week for this dedication, humor, and editing, plenty of which could be considered animation, or I will be disappointed in the internet >:(
That being said, here are some differing perspectives I have:
The Dark Worlds _are_ made to help Lightners in universe, the characters just aren't consciously doing so. In Chapter 1, Ralsei explains that a Darkners purpose is to assist Lightners, explaining why Lancer feels fulfilled when he forms a friendship with Susie. Similarly, Queen purposefully tries to make everyone happy, not knowing her actions will cause The Roaring. Considering how meta Toby likes to be, I think Dark Worlds represent escapism in fiction, improving the lives of those partaking in it, letting them run from their ordinary stressful lives, but sometimes being taken too far, although it's too early to know what the consequences are or what they'll be metaphors for
Ralsei is a good guy, but is much more concerned with the player having a good time. He doesn't say Susie can't act because it's Kris' thing to encourage their individuality, but because if the main character's power isn't unique, the game would be less fun. While he encourages pacifism, he won't stop you from chasing away every ally, because if he interfered with YOUR choice, the game would be less fun! Even the trophies are common symbols for achievements, but I also imagine as a Darkner assigned to Kris through destiny, he can tell their desires. Kris doesn't hate him, as proven by their reaction to his tea (60hp sounds abysmal but Noelle's, who's a childhood friend, is only 70hp while Ralsei heals 50hp from Noelle's and clearly doesn't despise her) they aren't the most comfortable, either. This is probably due to him looking like but not being Asriel and him prioritizing us, giving him an uncanny feeling to them. What I believe his character arc to be is learning who he is, better connecting to Kris, and if the player keeps doing horrible things he'll FINALLY defy you
Theorizing, for as bad as it's gotten, is an act of lowercase love (basically what you're saying but extrapolated) In an age where an eight minute video is considered "yapping," where fandoms are expected to die in one year, where the tiniest observations are met with "it's not that deep bro," earnest, unashamed analysis of story themes no matter how unhinged are the refreshing antidote to the brainrot infection. Plus, for as many mistakes/one-off lines are genuinely unimportant, there are _so many_ that the Deltarune Team have been intentional with! If I put out a creative project and somebody went over every detail, even if they came to conclusions I never meant to imply, I'd be over the moon (as long as they weren't harmful). Sadly, nowadays a lot of theories are concerned with being _correct,_ treating narratives like perfect logic puzzles and everything not contributing to that being useless filler instead of the lore being relevant but background information for the themes and characters to shine. All power to 'em if that's what they enjoy, but I'd love if we got back to caring about emotions over being right
May you find success with whatever fulfills you :D
This is the best video ever actually
Why do people keep saying that the idea that the soul seems to make Kris do things without our inputs means an "third entity"? Wouldnt it make more sense that it would be more elaboration on the "entity" we are in the game?
With that i mean, we only have like two chapters, very vague details on what is even going on, so would it really be that far fetched to suggest that the soul itself, that "we" are, is in fact an fully fledged character of its own and not "us" in an literal way?
We even get hints such as Toby pre release tweets hinting that before the intro sequence the entity we seem to be were in an "dark and cold place" which wouldnt make sense if it was just Twitter.
To be fair, twitter IS a cold, dark place
the editing here is actually so insanely good how do you do that
tbh? Creature.
@@TheLudomancerreference
The gags in this one were HILARIOUS dude!!!
(Btw, I finished Homestuck.)
The editing hello???? 😵💫🦅‼️🙏
Holly shit I can’t believe the first two minutes feel like I’m watching some Netflix shows lore video wtf
Is it just me or do the first 5 seconds of thos video radiate chaotic energy
Really well made video
With the darkners "being made" to help lightners to some degree makes sense. They do place a lot of emphasis on the fact that darkners/exist/ to help lightners. That that is their purpose. I don't know if they're tailor made for people who step in but helping lightners is their reason for being so it would make sense that most folks who stray into a dark world would be helped in a similar way
ZERO ESCAPE REFERENCE?!?!?!?!? HI CLOVER
This is peak.
"And I can be trusted with your subscription eheheheh"
_Click!_
another banger big man
this is video is useless
...
I love it!
The "Kris is dead" theory is... terrifyingly accurate? I don't think Kris is actually dead, but the parallels are unnerving.