Imagine how terrified they must be after investigating the anomaly they return to their own world and suddenly someone they’ve never seen before has seen them before.
@zipzop7873 when you see sans in Deltarune for the first time you can say something like “it’s good to see you again”(don’t remember the exact words) and he’ll be confused because it’s the first time you met
Flowey being visible in the distance really adds to the effect, because while it might be odd that there's a random intact sunflower in the snow, you don't know the norms of this world. he doesn't just have a stealth advantage, he's basically playing prophunt with you but he's both the prop AND the hunter
i love how this video talks about a theory with undertale without explicitly mentioning undertale, making it applicable to the wider question it tries to answer without falling back onto undertale's world as a crutch for explanation this also doubles as an effect to reach a broader audience lol very well made, great job! :D
i've never interacted with or played undertale so i was getting into it on a normal sci fi level. at the very end of the video he finally explicitly reveals the undertale connection and im just sitting there like "well shit this was all an undertale video"
It just means that i found this video accidentally and spent a while getting my brain mashed into soup by the most hypnotizing and confusing video on this platform
@user-vl5qu6dx9d yeah, I think having the knowledge of how undertale works would help understanding this video, but i don't think it's done poorly regardless
This makes so much sense considering the fact that Papyrus is still happy upon being killed, and the fact that the machine in the basement serves no known purpose to the player.
@TimeTimes12 After you kill Papyrus in the genocide route his head falls off and into his arms, but he keeps smiling and cracks a joke while dusting(can't remember the actual term). While all the other monsters either say nothing, get mad, or they are sad.
@OverlordTRM That actually happens in the neutral route (when killing papyrus) with the "ALAS, POOR PAPYRUS" (which is quoting shakespeare) and "WELL, AT LEAST I STILL HAVE MY HEAD!" This still aligns super well with your comment, and the geno dialogue goes well with it too! Since when he dies in that one, he continues to plead to the anomaly's concious by insisting that they can still be a good person because he (in this theory) knows that there is no way in which fighting them could stop them completely, but appealing to emotions may!
But what if the machine is a faux? A wrong path? After all, Sans gives you the key to his room of his own will after you prove to him without shadow of a doubt you're an anomaly, he knew what you would've seen so why would he reveal this extremely sensitive information about himself to you specifically after learning how dangerous you are, if not to mislead you...?
@fedethegreat88 because to Sans and Papyrus... You arent the first anomaly, you are the second *stronger* one that is able to flip the scale and possibly break the cycle
Flowey doesn't say "don't let Sans find out anything about you", all he says is to not underestimate him. I stand corrected by the reply below - he says BOTH "Don't let Sans find out ANYTHING about you" and also mentions not to underestimate him.
I love theories that acknowledge that Papyrus is just as opaque about his orgins as Sans. Plus, his speech to the player in the No Mercy route can easily be read as trying to appease something he knows he can't beat physically, in much the same way as Sans tries to bore/annoy the player into giving up in the same route. They cannot possibly harm us, so playing on the Entity's theoretical emotions is the last desperate tactic they can try. For some players, maybe that even worked.
That is something I thought of myself. If the anomaly can’t be overpowered maybe persuasion is the only chance. And yes, I love that this theory gives both brothers a sense of importance and not just sans being the front with papyrus being largely out of the picture
It definitely makes sense for the two to act that way, the player can just come back anytime they don't succeed and so the only thing that can really make them reconsider would be emotions like boredom or feeling sorry for a character like Papyrus. So them trying to appeal to one's conscience or frustrate one is really all they can do
Sadly, for Sans at least, if you make it to him the Sunk Cost Fallacy starts kicking in so even if you are bored or frustrated you will likely still continue on just because you made it that far.
Lowkey I’m that player, I got stuck on undying but came back a few months beat him and got to sans which I got maybe half way into the sans boss fight but dropped it again for elden ring or sum 😂 It’s just a shame that in my game he’s won but at the cost of his brother😢
What really kills me about this is that the plan worked. They stopped Flowey for centuries, that's why Flowey allows time to pass enough to lose his powers... To a even worst anomaly
Actually i think it wasn't really their plan. Flowey simply did EVERYTHING he could do and got bored, as anyone would, of course. It seems like he could never get the humans souls and make it out, but that wasn't Sans' or Papyrus' doing (or at least it does not seem that way) so yeah, Flowey basically won. But he just had nothing else to do
What are you talking about...? Have you never played Undertale? Flowey stopped nobody. He did everything he could. He made all the friends and enemies he could. He just stopped because he saw there was nothing more to do.
If this theory or something close to it is true, I wonder if the reason Toby is refusing to show us Deltarune Papyrus is because his personality will be *_very_* different from Undertale Papyrus. After all the Deltarune version wouldn't need to be constantly acting in order to fool the anomaly
Maybe the ending of Deltarune will tie into the beginning of Undertale. But not as a prequel or anything, I mean what if Deltarune Sans and Papyrus are sent to Undertale somehow at the end of Deltarune and thus begins the loop.
Sans reaction at the end wasn't to snowdin or anything like that, it was to the fact that the silence there means it's likely scenario's 3-5 since the anomaly didn't introduce themselves nor killed him on the spot.
@@normalman6078 well snaz and pap had been around in snowdin for a while so the orginal Anomaly would be flowey. and then when Flowey gets bored and Frisk comes along it changes
Now imagine the horror of either escaping to a different timeline later, or returning to your home, and suddenly, there's someone you don't know and have never seen before, telling you that they know you, and your brother.
If Deltarune happens "before" Undertale from Sans' perspective, is it possible that the "nice to see you again, I already know things about you that I shouldn't" was the seed that Sans used to base this plan on?
@@mr.condekua6141 Basically, Sans cares a lot about his brother and the plan they made involves Papyrus potentially dying a lot and he can't do anything about it, so Sans wishes there was someone else who could be the 2nd person in the plan so he didn't have to put his brother in danger.
@@SpeedyCheetahCub To me, it seems that Papyrus willingly gave himself up to become the 2nd person, because we can see him knock away the coin that was being thrown. Which would make sans regret him coming even more sad.
If anyone needs clarifying, the anomaly here isn't us, it's Flowey. Flowey had been reseting the timeline for potentially thousands of years before we the Player arrived. Sans and Papyrus were investigating Flowey, they didn't expect us, a second anomaly, to arrive. Flowey didn't expect us either. (This is implied at the end when he mentions introducing a "Stronger Anomaly", referring to how us the Player overrided Floweys power over the timeline) Who knows, maybe Deltarune is Sans and Papyrus running back to daddy Gaster saying "we found an even bigger anomaly! We need to catch it!"
Flowey was the initial anomaly, one that's from the world the skelebros made it to. One they have the possibility to stop, because it still has to follow the basic structure of the bubble universe they're in. The player is the unstoppable anomaly, because it's not from the skelebros world nor the world of the original anomaly. A being beyond the basic rules of that bubble universe. There are two different anomalies.
that’s why it’s just ‘the anomaly’ cause it doesn’t have to be us. plus, i don’t think sans knows that there are multiple anomalies. because he only mentions one in the fight. that’s cause when frisk shows up, flowey loses all of his potential to alert the timeline machine
@@dadeamatic3772 I did that, and forced myself to go through the genocide route thinking i HAD to experience 100% of the game. Despite dying so many times against Undyne and Sans, i enjoyed fighting against them since they were tough enough to take several tries, but after that i just felt sad about killing them (And i felt even worse for Mettaton, he could've been another big boss fight and i was expecting him to be one, but instead he died in one hit, still mad at Toby for that one...)
Literally me. I took 2 year long breaks from the game after getting my ass handed to me by Muffet and Asgore, and after finally getting pacifist just never opened the game again. Screw genocide players, I want a happy ending
Even if this doesn’t end being true, I want someone to make this idea an actual story. A time loop story where an outsider inserts themself into the cycle to try and kill something with complete and total control over the scenario. All they have are ideas, a control of the flow of information, and the ability to predict and adapt on the fly. The ultimate underdog story, one person fighting against impossible odds and, hopefully, triumphing and breaking the cycle.
@@egg3909 I never saw it, maybe I'll look for it later. I think the plot is about a loop using the logic of a game or last saving point, right? How do you break a cycle like that?
Only gripe is that for the outsider, they *cant* improvise. The main part of the scenario is that to the outsider they may be adapting, but to the entity this is the same idea they've seen them have over and over again. The only thing they can use is planning, so much that the entity would not even suspect that such a level of planning would be used or feasible. This would be an interesting concept to make into a series or a one-off, perhaps showing different timelines "chronologically" (in the order that the entity visits them), but from the perspective of the outsider, so we gradually see that the entity gains more and more knowledge about the outsider while they remain oblivious. Until eventually, simultaneously, the penny drops. This scenario would however require a "no resets after entity death" rule, so that there is a win condition for our protagonist.
@jan_harald it’s a theory because they don’t actually know if it’s true or not, it’s a possible truth but there are tons of “unproven” assumptions made in this video that could very likely be true we don’t know if it actually is true or not. Mathematical logic and proofs are built on the logic of “if this one thing is true then this other thing absolutely has to be true as well” which is different this video which is closer to a proposed scenario
@jan_harald Yeah, about that... Science _is_ a theory. Just the least likely to be false. So we Occam-off that uncertain "What if false?" part for the everyday convenience. So, yeah, funny comparison.
The one problem I have with the theory is that resets also occur in deltarune, and sans and paps are (presumably) the same in both deltarune and undertale. So why would they leave their timeline with its own anomaly to deal with another, seemingly unrelated, one?
@Cosmolermmm I see your point, and you've convinced me that my comment was wrong - however, don't discount the video! Maybe they are not coming from Deltarune, but from whatever other realm, trying to fix the anomaly across BOTH worlds. After all, they "just moved" to Hometown as well.
It just occurred to me, this video opened up a brand new worst-case scenerio in some coppies of Underrale, cause now a hypothetical plan of theirs is laid bare, now the Anomaly by sharing and compiling information with other Anomalies of similar nature can now counter an otherwise flawless plan...
The plan never was for us, the anomaly in this video was Flowey. We are the stronger anomaly that would end up either saving or destroying the timeline for good
@@Solesteam I believe that Asgore and Gaster are working together to counter anomaloes like the player Asgore is person 2 naive , gullible simple interest , invinting , friendly And Gaster is person 1 Unlike sans and papyrus Asgore and Gaster's plan is to erase the anomaly entirely and stop new ones from occuring essentially ending Undettale and I believe this what's going to happen in Deltarune when toby says Deltarune only has one ending . Asgore and Gaster's plan is to lead to an outcome where the universe of Undertale can no longer be determined by the player .
@@cameronforbes1072 I mean Asgore and Gaster would've knew eachother Gaster was the royal scientist wethier Asgore is willingly aware of this plan or Gaster is manipulating him to be person 2 I don't know .
You somehow managed to combine an elaborate interpretation of Undertale that fits the story down to the obscure details, *and* create a sophisticated thought experiment, all the while respecting the viewers’ intelligence, saying no more than you need to, and wasting no time. Not to mention the editing and narration. I have nothing negative to say about this video! This is what i use the internet for! Bravo, sir!
I'll also add onto this about an older theory I've seen online. The monsters who try the hardest to kill you - Sans, Undyne, Mettaton, most Core enemies - are also the ones with the most animated sprites in battle. Someone like Toriel, by contrast, mostly just stands still, fighting but not trying to kill you. Papyrus doesn't move in his battle. It's not like a budget thing; he moves around, has different expressions, just generally does stuff when you go on his quirky little date. But in his battle? Completely, utterly, motionless. Identical to a statue. He isn't just not trying to kill you, like Toriel. He's giving the fight absolutely, positively, ZERO discernible effort. We do NOT know what this skeleton is truly capable of.
The real reason is likely because Toriel and Papyrus were done earlier in development, and Toby Fox had more experience by time he made the other bosses. It's pretty reasonable to assume that the Papyrus date was made later on since its for the true ending.
@@theonetruemilkman4894i feel like toby would have went back and added animations to them, then, no? not entirely disagreeing with you, but still its odd.
It doesn't even specify Undertale, just a story of you and a sapient time anomaly looking for the unachievable and how you'd try to stop it forever. You don't even need to know it's about undertale to understand it...
the part about needing an angel to save you, that makes me think that this might actually be about Flowey. Especially since Flowey is the one that manipulates Papyrus in the story, and by the time Frisk appears, Sans and Papyrus are already there and people already know them.
yeah the anomaly discussed in this video and plan is flowey, since he had control of the timeline before frisk's arrival and is responsible for the resets that brought sans and papyrus to this timeline in the first place plus flowey is the one who knows papyrus' favorite food is oatmeal with dinosaur eggs
Flowey is in the end of the video I think this would classify as a Mad god since you know...so many rests he did everything Because flowey is just looking at the end of vídeo, and not showing a perfect world being made or they are not killed right after this is a 3 or 5, that why says "fuck"
@@Cam3- No. There was an AMA for Undertale characters and Toby only chose the question "What is Papyrus's favorite food?" and while the answers were all entertaining, there was only one person who actually answered the question: Flowey. He stated that Papyrus's favorite food is oatmeal with dinosaur eggs, and he expressed confusion about how no one else knew this information.
Really appreciate that this video makes zero direct references to any particular pieces of media, yet indirectly does so, which adds extra layers of interactions, for those who know. Thank you for the excellent video
"those who know"💀 In all serious I totally agree, I could share this video to a friend who is unfamiliar with undertale as it's framed as a thought experiment as opposed to a traditional fan theory.
The one scary part that isn't addressed in this video (I know it's talking about Flowey and not us). Is that the Player (Anomaly 2), is not alone. There is Millions of other Anomaly 2's, but you don't know that. But the Anomaly 2 does, and can communicate, watch, learn and plan with other Anomalies (Other than the 1st one). That is scary.
Perfect execution of taking a complex topic from a umbrella source and isolating it to the point that it can stand on its own as a comprehensible topic. Good work!
I think it’s because, (as someone who’s only watched this video by them so far) their avatar is so much like a blob that it scares you simply because it’s an amorphous enough silhouette that you can’t really tell what it is. which can be a little anxiety inducing by itself, not to mention when it’s supposed to be representing a character’s whose motive are already being questioned. I didn’t even realize till at the end and I went to their channel to subscribe that the blob representing the anomaly was supposed to be their avatar.
This theory is so well done. It perfectly describes the abject hopelessness and uncertainty of the situation the two brothers are in. The narration done is perfect with the narration addressing sans and papyrus. With sans being the one listening “you really wish he didn’t come with you didn’t you?” By far my favorite theory for the masterful telling alone, amazing work
this is some scp "there is no memetics division" type shit and i love it. never got too much into the lore of undertale but this genuinely explains so much, thank you
@@schippai3308Just search "There is no Antimemetics Division", there's a reading list order you should follow. The first half also has some short films on YT about it that captures the essence of "information means death".
That ending reveal made everything click in place, every problem i had with it immediately became solved with some thought. This is a very interesting hypothetical, but this is also an absolutely amazingly produced video
I don't get the ending reveal??? Like, what? It revealed nothing? And why did sans react like that? We all knew going in this was about Undertale, that was very clear very quickly, and obviously so does the POV character, aka sans, in the story, since he's the one who travelled here through the time machine. Like what??? The entire video we're led to understand they're going to snowdin to start figuring this whole thing out, and then the door opens, and it's revealed....to be snowdin, okay?? Yeah, like, that's exactly what we are expecting. Hello? Am I fucking missing something here? What are you on about and for that matter why did sans react like that, cursing as if something unexpected had happened???
@@Lunam_D._Roger At the beginning of the video it was stated that the travelers would either be greeted, killed, or see nothing and be instantly killed on a later reset. They saw nothing
I don't get the theory or ending fully but from what I can tell, Sans could tell Outcome 3 happened and they are kinda doomed to be stuck in a loop. A stalemate for all of eternity until either Outcome 2 (instant death w/ no reset) happens, or someone stronger than the anomaly enters. But then at that point they're right back at the start; stuck in a loop.
FINALLY someone that understands that Sans saw the flowey resets and cant distinguish it from yours. This is neat but i think they are more wanting a decent end as well as ending up there more by accident rather then sent, deltarune monsters but still monsters.
Actually, i've heard about this being discussed simce the very begginings of the game. I thought that everyone knew of this fact? Everyone that i've seen talking about the "Our reports showed a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum. timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting... until suddenly, everything ends." quote, mentions that this was definitely Flowey's doing. After all, Flowey outright tells us he was doing this stuff, and Sans tells us that Papyrus sometimes speaks with a flower. Everyone that thinks about it enough will arrive to the same conclusion
Great theory! I like the idea of Papyrus being smarter than he seems. Doesn't really make sense how Sans can be a genius time travelling fourth wall breaker while Papyrus, his brother, is an idiot.
I don't see how it doesn't make sense? Brothers don't always have the same skills and knowledge? I don't think Paps is an idiot at all, but I don't see how Paps not having all the same knowledge and skills as Sans doesn't make sense. That is just something that can pretty commonly happen.
@@Dragon_Aoidefinitley could, but he does reference time and space at the end of a pacifist run, and when u hangout at sans rooms. Don’t know if he’s joking completely though
I love how it reimagines papyrus not as dumb but rather forced to play a role and he’s just doing his part and hiding as much if not more than sans. He would have to be extremely smart as to not let the mask slip once
You just made an Undertale X SCP's "There is no antimemetics division" ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL! Information as a volatile resource, unreliable and dangerous to share or even know. You have to trust yourself, in whatever situation you were, to do the right thing. And then, the ultimate flaw in any of these plans: when an assumption is made, like there only being ONE anomaly, then you have to go back to the drawing board, and with less allies alive to help. Loved ones, perhaps...
Information safety is pretty closely tied to facing someone with time powers that also isn't omnipotent, at least when written competently. Go read Incidence on Ao3, it's a Deltarune fic that's honestly really good and could be a story of its own and handles this idea really well.
Will always and forever love SCP stuff. For this reason, knowing you've enjoyed TINAD and on the topic of dead timelines (or Deadlines), I would recommend checking out the On Guard 43 Canon. Maybe start with SCP-5243 More specifically the Words of Power and Poison to get the background needed (there's a lot, and all of it is very worth it). And then read the trilogy of books that are The Breach that Keeps on Breaching (Bury the Survivors, Wrong Tomorrow and Deadlined. Deadlined is partially interweaved with TINAD). All of it wonderfully written by Harry Blank over on the SCP wiki
Toby fox will now introduce a character "Mop Suckit" in chapter 3 who rants about time travel and iterations and anomalies whilst sans throws coins out of pity He'll then seeth with soyjack rage as he ret-cons everything so you're not bang on
I always thought a core part of Sans character was his relationship to you in regards to the time travel powers you posses, rather than the relationship to you in regards to the fact that you are a human like it is for most of the cast. Most of the cast understands you as a standard member of an oppressive group, but Sans (and according to you, papyrus) understands you as more than that, an inherently dangerous, unpredictable, and unstoppable force. He is the one who understands just how much he is subject to you, and it dictates his behavior and attitude. I think your theory compounds on this idea very nicely, and also throws papyrus into the mix as well. He’s not any different, at least in that aspect, he’s just very good at pretending he is, as different as he possibly could be in fact.
One of the biggest give-aways that Papyrus is more than he seems is the fact that he cannot accidentally kill you. The rest of the Monsters? They will mercilessly tear you to shreds. Even *TORIEL* can ACCIDENTALLY kill you. You see her reaction for a split second. A couple frames. She's Horrified at what she's just done. And it was a complete accident. A lack of control. But Papyrus? 1 hp. Every time. Over. And over. And over. Without fail. How much *control* does he have over his own magic? That takes more than a bumbling idiot with a big heart.
@@mdbgamer556 He also is the only character in the game to not move at all in battle. Toriel barely moves because she's barely trying, but he's completely still.
There are more things that point to Papyrus being like Sans. For one, "what do you two think?" which, to really abbreviate the analysis, must be referring to Sans + Papyrus or Alphys, assuming it's someone we know. Alphys ultimately doesn't quite make sense, so it has to be Papyrus, so he has to be doing the extreme verson of Sans' "be nice to the anomoly" plan, while being perfectly deceptive about it (actively doing things is Sans' job). For another, Papyrys is very supportive of the evil anomoly for no apparent reason given how he acts in the other routs, in a way that might guilt them into abandoning the timeline that ends. There are more, but those are the two which got me thinking Papyrus has to know what Sans does in the first place.
@@delta3244 hmm well flowey and frisk differs greatly, Flowey while being able to control timelines, one holds no power and knowledge outside the game, Frisk on the other hand is litterally the conduit of the player, a vessel for a cosmic horror may say, connection outside of reality Too bad Frisk don't speak, If Frisk can speak for us, it would be an even greater angel than one already was, or the astronomically more horrifying one, especially since some players knows the hypothetical plans fully Scenario 3rd but strange; as the anomaly somehow gains 200+ iq, it figures out this plan those two had, and confront those two about it, a new branch was opened from an intervention from the outside, the bubble weakens
What’s crazy about this is that no matter how well thought out the plan is, they will NEVER meet the anomaly. They will meet Frisk, maybe they will even find out they are inhabited by a soul that is not theirs, but they can’t even consider the idea of the real anomaly aka the player who’s actually in charge of the resets.
This has got to be one of my peak favorite theses of Undertale. Just how you frame the entire video, you don't even unblur a single sprite purposefully to keep us distant from our memory and inherent bias of the game to effect how we view the video. You present it to us as a completely separate idea -which it can still be- but give just enough of a nod so the entire weight that experience hangs on us in the background. Fucking amazing work
How do you casually drop one of the most conceptually interesting videos not just on Undertale but a sci-fi plot in general? E: Would like to say please try Kubera (on Mangadex since the official translations are kinda mixed in quality) if you want a story that does time travel extremely well. It's different from the idea in the video, but is equally interesting to me as a reader.
I almost wish this was just an independent story. Cause even if it isn’t canon (which let’s be real it probably isn’t) it’s such a cool idea that I wish it existed in some capacity as a legitimate story premise.
1) This video is amazing. Only until I watched it and looked at comments did I realize it was talking about Flowey, not us. I re-watched it and It made everything fit even better and the reveal at the end was so good. I didn't even know about the oatmeal thing so I looked it up and finding a picture of only Flowey saying it was so cool. 2) This video is such a cool idea for what happens next too. Frisk shows up and overrides Flowey's ability to save and reset. So now for Sans and Papyrus they have to deal with a different person with the same abilities but what they can do to stop/kill them could be completely different than what they were already trying to figure out. And the worst part is, this isn't Flowey, an entity that exists solely inside of the bubble they entered. This is something that's controlling an entity inside the bubble from the outside. And even worse still, this isn't the only bubble they can touch.
The bigger issue is also, that remember - they can't communicate anymore, all that is safe is now gone - the second anomaly has control above what they could've planned for. It's now completely up to chance, though I hope it's real and is in sync with deltarune's one ending
"It may be the beginning... Of the longest day of your life." Well if that is not the best description of Undertale i ever heard. (For the monsters that is.)
This feels like one of the few videos to "understand" sans deal and that it isn't "he somehow remembers resets," but something a lot more scientific/deductible. However, would add that while this theory kind of assumes that Papyrus is the one who gets information about the anomaly (which would either be Frisk or Flowey in resets before or after Frisk fell down,) sans does seem to get some direct information from Frisk during the game. Frisk's reaction to the whoopie cushion in the hand trick tells him if this is or isn't the first reset. Their reaction to the whole "you haven't died a single time" tells him if they have died during the game's events. And from the judgment hall, he can tell if Frisk's heard his whole spiel before, which would tell him if they got his message or not, depending on the game's events. (Or, if they killed Papyrus, and he subtly highlights how the time travel powers weaken the self-defense argument.) Idk maybe all of this stuff would work with Flowey, but sans' dialogue implies that he thinks Frisk is the original anomaly. (Then again, he seems to be aware that something's special/different about Flowey if you hang out with him at Grillbys, and he hints at it, but idk.) Still, though, I have to appreciate this video solely for the fact that it actually tries to deduce how Sans (without "remembering resets") understands how Frisk and Flowey use determination/what they're trying to achieve. It's clear that sans uses a lot more deduction/educated guesses, rather than "Sans remembers the resets beyond the deja vu that most seem to have." (Which isn't the shown canon.)
the logic is that Sans and pap dont know who the anomaly could be, and since flowey gave up trying to mess with the brothers a looong time ago, (he got clapped each time and the plan worked on him, flowey never killed sans), the player comes along. We fall for the trap unaware, and he just assumes we are the sole anomaly, which we are now. Flowey uses his knowledge of papyrus to exploit him and whatnot, and since this falls outside of the parameters of 'the plan' , he gets away with what happens in true pacifist Yeah, flowey uses the player and the brothers to steal everyones souls, knowing everyone would congregate in the throne room and stole the 6 souls all at once, crazy.
@@noobhoot06 That's not the question I had. Like, from this video it implies that Papyrus is the sort of "sacrificial lamb" to get info out of the anomaly, but what I'm pointing out is the (perceved flaw) in the video that sans seems to be fine with getting info directly from the anomaly instead of using Papyrus as a sort of middle man.
it makes more sense if sans also gathers information as the anomaly already knows sans is hunting it down it strengthens the anomaly's view that sans is the only threat while papyrus gets to fly under the radar. after all it would be really suspicious if sans the person hunting the anomaly didn't try to gather any information on the anomaly at all.
Another underrated scene which ties into this where Sans uses Frisk's facial expression to deduct whether they're the anomaly or not was the restaurant scene in MTT resort, when he says "you haven't died a single time", and figures out if he's wrong or right from your facial expression.
@@voidedcircle Yea, person 1 is suposed to be gathering as much information actively, and it doesnt matter if he gets discovered as a threat. Biggest issue with the theory is how would person 1 figure out that the anomaly outed it self to person 2. Person 2 canot comunicate the information itself, because it could get intercepted and decoded by the anomaly, so person 1 has to figure out if the anomaly exists by his own observation of person 2s behaviour.
My timeline ended unfortunately so I had to use unforeseen powers that be to split it into two separate dimensions and now here I am managing two versions of myself. Time travel’s hard folks, especially if you’ve sold your soul to an 11 year old.
This video (and most of your other videos tbh) gives me the vibes of a crazy talker who ended up being right. Like, it's such a new idea that's so out of the box, but when you really think about - it makes sense. Anyway, keep doing what you do best.
LOVE how menacing Flowey in the background is at the end. He's so innocuous from that distance. Just a friendly little flower. Man I love Flowey, man I love Sans and Papyrus.
(Not about Undertale but the whole anomaly timetraveler outcome situation) The worst part about it all isn't the outcome of them becoming a mad god, or a evil monster, not even if the timeline resets or stops. It's when the anomaly becomes the time traveler, and you find out why it's been trying over and over for some outcome. The fact the monster you knew wasn't the true monster. But a puppet in the grand scheme of things. That the anomaly itself, is also a time traveler who has a bit more control than you, a time traveler with its own cruel anomaly. When you find out that yes it may been the 10th, 100th, 1'000th 1,000,000th reset for you, they may have had it reset infinite amount of times before you found out. This is just the timeline were you showed up. The worst outcome is finding out that in this grand timeline of resets and stops, despite how you tried so hard to stop the anomaly. It all means nothing to you or the anomaly. How both of you are stuck in this cruel limbo for some higher being. And it may turn out that even the anomaly's anomaly has a anomaly. This whole situation may just be an endless chain of suffering and enjoyment. And it won't stop
Welp, if this doesn't describe "Higurashi no naku koro ni", I don't know what does. (Seriously, there's recently been MANY works of fiction that grapple the concept of time traveling in a 'reset' style: Undertale, Higurashi, Steins Gate, Madoka Magica, Erased, Re:Zero, and these are just the ones I can remember from the top of my head.
I'm confused what you're saying here, the point of the video is that the anomaly IS a time traveler already, and you are not. Do you mean that YOU become a time traveler? Ok I think I get your comment now
You reach the climax of the game, suspenseful music plays, and then you get jumpscared by text in the comic sans font saying that you are sans undertale
Ever since I was convinced Sans doesn’t remember resets, I always imagined it would be something like this. Because I had this exact thought experiment sometimes too, though I never thought it seriously. What would I tell someone to have them convince me in the past that they’re a time traveler? If I’m in a novel where there’s an infininte regressor, how will I make sure that they will take me to the end and treat me right in the final timeline, but also assure that I don’t get abused in some way? I always came to the conclusion that it would have to be a plan I put in place and held myself to before the time loop, and if I can’t do that, I’m nearly fucked.
Okay, but the Oatmeal with Dinosaur Eggs being a secret codeword to determine and observe the anomaly is actually genius. "Why am I the only one who knows this?!" - Flowey The Flower, aka the anomaly.
This just confirms something I've already suspected: in stories where a character time travels in a 'game reset' style, that world would be an indescribable eldritch torment for the side-characters who are aware of the time traveling but can't remember any of the timelines. Knowing that your fate is tied to someone else's actions and there's nothing you can do about it must be unimaginably horrifying and depressing, especially since the "easy way out" wouldn't even work because the moment the other character resets you'll be brought back to life against your will.
a lot of people are misunderstanding and think the anomaly is the player/human. i did too, because you use a silhouette of yourself to represent the anomaly, which can be assumed to be a stand-in for the viewer/player
@ throuhout the video whenever he says “anomaly” he’s referring to flowey, the theory is that sans and papyrus are working together to get information on flowey. reading a few of the comments, people are mistaking it and think that frisk or the player are the anomaly. i’m just pointing this out as a bit of constructive criticism and as a warning that some people are misinterpreting the video
Well, it would seem like their plan worked on flowey. Definitely not with us, though. They apparently didn't have much of a plan for when a second anomaly arrived.
@@xxjoebamaxx7782well I assume plan B would be the same as Plan A, wait for another even more powerful entity to take control of the timeline. Now their in a ♾️^2 loop :D
@@xxjoebamaxx7782I think Sans almost confirms this in his boss fight. He talks about the timelines going crazy, and then asks "That was you, wasn't it?" He's genuinely confused now, he doesn't know what the anomaly is anymore. You? Flowey? You've confused him by this point in the game.
"Fell asleep". Yeah right. You know it won't be satisfied. You know how it can still act. It's just yet another farce, another avenue to demonstrate your awareness of the situation, another way to close off its options. If you can just prove there's NO way to get through you. That's the only way it'll give up at this point. So it will attack on your turn. That's fine. Attacking is one of the few things restricting it. It's the same every time. You've dodged them all. This is no different. What's one mo-
There is a terrifying timeline where Flowey killed Papyrus and didn't reset the timeline before the player showed up and unintentionally usurping the save and load powers and preventing Flowey from resetting the timeline to get Papyrus back.
Yeah but i think that that's technically not possible? Not sure how the whole timeline thing works in the Undertale world, but it seems like no matter what, the 8th human will come by in the same situation... We reaoly can't be sure about this one. Gosh, i really hate how mysterious Undertale is hahaha
@@jestfullgremblim8002 it's theoretically possible. the 8th human only gets control of the saves after they have fallen, so anything that happens before can be just whatever. the reason the underground is not messed up is because flowey, as he states, got bored bc he has already seen and done everything.
This feels like it would be a crazy if it ends up being close to the real theory. Like imagine in Chapter 3, 4, or 5 we learn that Papyrus acts completely different and basically proves UT Papyrus is all an act…a facade that tricked EVERYONE. It would be equally amazing as it is depressing. I kinda hope Papyrus isn’t like that since in a way the character we adore wouldn’t have actually existed.
@@CocoanutVA there are none. Not yet, at least - anomaly at hand is Flowey, which is 4-th oitcome. It'll take some survival to get to the point of the player entering the scene too.
Pretty goated I'm ngl, this does mesh well though with another fairly compelling theory that papyrus is way stronger than he lets on, this might be why...
Paps is somewhat stronger than he shows, but that particular theory kind of pushes how strong he strong is (stronger than everyone basically. Like Sans, Undyne, Asgore, etc. And I think that is pushing things), and the theory itself is just kind of holes imo.
@@Dragon_Aoi Yes and no, I think. Papyrus literally stops himself exactly 1 hp from killing you, and the only other one that has ever managed that has been Flowey who, mind, has had an indefinite amount of time to practice control. Papyrus has not. Even Toriel, who theoretically might be very very long lived by this point, does not possess the control to not accidentally kill you. Papyrus is pretty strong, but it takes more than brute force, and he has a different role to play...
@@mdbgamer556Papyrus also has gaster blasters, which can be gathered from dialogue on the date with him after an aborted geno route. “IM GLAD YOU STOPPED WHEN YOU DID, OTHERWISE YOU SURELY WOULD HAVE BEEN ‘BLASTED’…”
I just found you through this video, and after watching the rest of your undertale/deltarune videos let me say you are exactly the kind of theorist I've been waiting for in this community. The kind of theorist that looks at the generally agreed upon theories the community holds as true and questions them. The kind of theorist that looks at seemingly insignificant details that for years had been skipped over, but in actuality can be used as very compelling evidence for alternative theories to the previously mentioned widely held true ones. I genuinely cannot wait for your next videos, as you've been one of the few people to actually make me double take over how obvious some of the theories/evidence/inconsistencies you brought up are. Hope you get big! :D
I knew Papyrus was smarter than he let on, but I failed to consider the possibility that he was actually fully on the same page as Sans regarding all the anomoly stuff. I don't doubt that much of Papyrus was already genuinely leaning towards his role (I think that's part of why they chose the roles they did-, of what we can see of deltarune sans, he's basically as laid back as before, though slightly more active in running a store), but he definitely is flanderizing aspects of himself
This is an amazing deduction/theory! I would like to throw out a few scenarios that you may have missed though, that werent adressed in the video. I'll number mine with decimals to differentiate from yours for the sake of clarity. 1.5: the anomaly is evil, but acts nice. the anomaly greets you and acts kindly, but only as a means to trick you and stab you in the back. Even if they truly are nice, they could eventually get bored or go mad (leading to any other scenario) and then use whatever information you gave them when they were nice to kill you, so even if they are nice, you'd still have to hide info in case they eventually use it agsinst you. Of course, this would only further encourage "the plan," but i thought it was worth noting. 2.5: the anomaly is nice, but acts aloof. It doesnt greet you, but only bc it doesnt feel the need to. It knows it will meet you in due time. 3.5: the anomaly is aloof. It doesnt greet you not out of malice, but because it simply doesnt care. Maybe you dont jave the means to kill it and it k ows that, so it just doesnt bother saying hi. Idk if this is what you meant by scenario #3, but i thought i'd mention it just in case Of course, assuming either 2.5 or 3.5 would be dangerous, seeing as 3 is the alterantive, so it just kinda becomes redundant in the end. Kt seems there are only 2 real outcomes of "what will i do when i leave the chamber," and they are either a). The Plan™️, or b). Fight to the death immediately and probably die. ...there is also the horrible possibility that the anomaly, with infinite time to ponder, has also thought of this plan and is fully aware of your tactics, in which case, that second stronger anomaly is the only hope yet again
whats crazy is even if the anomaly is aware of your plan, there's nothing they can do to extract information outside of what person1 and person 2 has willingly divulged
This is barely even a theory, its more just an accurate assessment of events. *_and oh how funny it is to think that after all that effort to set things up like this, it was figured out anyways._* That despite all this, you still have no way to stop them.
And what's worse is that Sans (and very importantly Asgore) DID stop them. For centuries maybe. Enough that they let time advance enough to allow themselves to be overtaken by the Eigth Human. The plan worked. Flawlessly. Heck, the biggest cause for abandoning No Mercy is killing Papyrus according to stats I pulled from Misaki's OST videos and youtubers. And it didn't matter.
@@gabrote42technically speaking this is false. Flowey has confirmed killed everyone to such an extent he got bored enough to let time continue he only had one thing left to do and couldn't because Asgore was paranoid enough to never show Flowey where the souls are.
*Some Time Later* You sit at the end of an empty hall, at the edge of the time bubble, contemplating your next move. To some extent, your plan worked. They identified the anomaly, and you were able to gather data on the world and its inhabitants. However, there is a problem. The anomaly has made its objective the extermination of every monster, and has found Them unnecessary to complete that objective. If the anomaly thought differently, if They had more time, maybe stopping it forever would be possible. But how do you give Them that time? Luckily for you, there are a few things you know to be true. First, complete extermination is the anomaly's only objective. There are only four beings left alive in this space: two of them are in an isolated location, you are protecting them, and the anomaly is approaching your location. Its goal is obvious, and in the completion of that goal, the last steps it'll take are also obvious. Second, despite a perfect understanding of the situation, the anomaly remains a human child with limited resources. It is restrained by the rules of a system you somewhat understand, and those rules are things you can exploit. It seems to take a second after starting a fight to collect itself, so maybe that second is related to its reset ability. What happens if you take that second away? Its fighting style relies on creating an opening to exploit, so while it would be pretty tiring to try and avoid every attack, maybe doing so would leave it in a position where it couldn't kill you. And finally, though you doubt it's a true weakness, the anomaly waits for its opponent to retaliate after every attack. You think this is a bluff designed to stay the hand of anyone who knows too much about it, but as a last resort if you've exhausted every other option, then... maybe you could try not fighting back. At that point, it would be your only option anyways. WIth this in mind, a plan forms. You don't know how to stop the anomaly forever, but you think you know how to stop it now. So leverage that. Use these rules to keep it from killing you now, and imply that regardless of when the anomaly picks its fight, you would use those rules then, too. If you succeed, if you can convince it that you are an unstoppable force, then it would be forced to go back and spare Them. They would have more time, and then maybe They could find something that would turn your efforts here and now into results now and forever. You hear the door at the end of the hall open. It confirms, at least, that you were right about one thing. You just hope everything the people of this world sacrificed their lives to show you is enough to make you right about a second.
the anomaly in question for the duration of the video is in fact flowey, NOT the player. The player is the 2nd, stronger anomaly, that comes to end the loop.
If we ever get confirmation of this hypothetical scenario I want to state that we were here to witness the theory that predicts the most crazy plot twist of all fiction Jaw dropping video. You earned my respect
FUCK YES MORE SOCK MUPPET seriously the quality of the content you produce has never dwindled, from petscop times till now your vids are always engaging and full watchthroughs! great vid! (oh yeah sidenote, i really really REALLY fucking miss petscop, just going on ur channel and scrolling through dozens of already watched vids of you being so fucking dedicated and devoted to figuring out that weird little webseries, jesus theres still nothing thats been like it since!)
This video is the reason i search around the internet for undertale videos, because this community sometimes manages to make really good videos, and i really love it when people talk about the existential aspects of undertale's meta.
This is a very lovely video to start the new year. I love how, while still being inherently undertale, this sci fi think piece can be understood without knowing anything about the game. Freaking Amazing!
This is why I feel like undertale has perfectly encapsulated what save states, save files, and whatever else in a meta way, it is a simple idea of just time being a straight line that can stop and go back and changed, everything has technically happened and yet you are at one point in time, you might started figuring out that you can go back, then you start gathering information and go back and test something new for the joy of it, but then when you already did it, whats the point of doing it if you know what happens This, this right here is what I think flowy is such a interesting character, because you can be the polar opposite of him on one route/timeline, but when you on a murder all timeline, you start to see that he is doing what you are and are nearly the same as he is, just at different positions of power in the timeline
so reading the comments, this is apparently an undertale thing? Which, wow, thx YT. But this is even generally an amazing thought experiment and the kind of story building you did with building up the problem, the possible scenarios and what in the end the 1st and 2nd role are? Amazing! I was sitting at the edge of my seat the whole time. I personally love everything related to time travel, but I only now realise that everything I've read on that topic is from the traveller's perspective, not someone who knows about them, since they control the information about themselves. Hearing this other perspective.... it's just amazing. Thank you :)
Read the description he's using more general approach to find a larger audience so don't feel bad about knowing nothing about undertale. But the game is 3 bucks and you might like it if you liked this vid😊
Probably the most terrifying discovery possible to make in this scenario is that the individual you identified as the anomaly isn't actually 'the' anomaly, but rather just trapped within it. Capable of controlling the resets to a limited extent, that limitation being that they can cause the resets to happen early but otherwise the resets always happen anyway at the same inevitable point in time. This individual carries their memories from one reset to the next, but that's it. They are just as much a prisoner inside this time loop as anyone else, and don't know any more than anyone else about what caused the loop to happen or how to stop it. Perhaps countless times they've tried different things, manipulating different variables that could satisfy whatever conditions are needed to allow time to continue beyond that point, but nothing works. The entity isn't evil, it's desperate, or beyond that has developed a nihilistic worldview. Making friends comes as easily as ending life because no matter what they try to escape the loop, reset is inevitable and it all returns to zero. And now, you're stuck in here with them too, neither one of you knowing what to do to escape and only them carrying memories between resets which prevents them from leaning on you as a true friend. After all, when time reaches that certain point, you won't remember them anymore anyway.
@@shady8045 Aside from the fact that both the video and my original comment are tackling this concept from the perspective of this not being a video game and so no "player" is involved, you just contradicted yourself by saying that Frisk and the player are not separate and yet Frisk is not the player. Regardless, Frisk is not the anomaly, Frisk is simply the entity within the anomaly least affected by it and with the largest degree of control over it. Ultimately the time loop itself is the anomaly and even Frisk is powerless to prevent it from happening beyond a certain point.
Possibly ff1 psp did this. Garland having the ability to return to the past when he got killed is just a part of a bigger anomaly. You'll then given option to endlessly fight this higher anomaly which is a time itself, Chronodia. It's possible that Chronodia is beyond Gardland's time loop ability.
I love the idea of this being the training and preparation that officers of the timeline monitoring organization need to go through before every job, like they analyze all known timelines as much as possible to try and get an idea of what it is the anomaly may be trying to accomplish and guide them through it so that they feel fulfilled and do not return. This is of course with exception to the situations in which the anomaly’s actions lead to the outright destruction of the universe, which they have to do everything in their power to prevent.
I am in shock. I was always curious and thought of HOW Sans could have possibly been able to know all of this, know WHEN to act, I always thought he'd be alone. But thinking of Papyrus as their accomplice playing as a persona makes everything just make so much more sense.
Wow, this is incredible, and I kind of want it to be true because of how genius it is. The only issue I have comes from Lost Soul Papryus during the Asriel Pacifist fight. In this state, Papyrus, like the other monsters, don't have much awareness of what's going on. Their inner insecurities/worries come out until they remember that Frisk already helped them move past these problems. If this theory was accurate, wouldn't Papyrus reveal himself to really be upset about having to live a fake life in order to find the Anomaly? Instead, he talks about needing to capture a human. Sure, we can say that the Lost Souls are only missing their memories and their awareness of the situation, so Papyrus could simply be acting how he usually would, however, given that Sans says, "just give up. i did," something that he wouldn't otherwise say to anyone, I believe that it's more than just a memory/awareness issue. As shown by Sans, the Lost Souls show us everyone's flaws, even from characters that typically hide them. In this case, wouldn't Papyrus give up the act? Or is the mission so ingrained into his conscience that, even as a lost soul, he's unwilling to give himself up? Or am I being silly? Regardless, this theory is amazing and makes Undertale so much deeper/complex than it already was. Well done.
this sort of breaks the narrative of papyrus being an actor. but at the same time i also dont think papyrus is a true actor anyway, since there are many factors that say he couldnt be otherwise (like the lost soul dialogue you said). i believe that we just dont know enough about papyrus in general. we know shockingly little about him, less than sans, because we just have to assume that all he shows us is the entirety of him. Obviously, you can explain away why the lost souls say what they say. after looking at the dialogue under this theory, papyrus truly couldve had his memories wiped, replaced, or locked away. sans says "you'll never see em again." of course he could be referring to anyone, but if you suspend your disbelief, he may be talking about his own brother??? I only say that because, i mean, papyrus is weirder than his brother in some aspects. He breaks many rules like sans, yet seems even more normal. what i find more than anything to be out of place, is the fact they come together, the brothers. it implys that they should share more than what they do, but in game they seem night and day. Basically, there is no way in my mind that papyrus, in all of his quirkiness and whatnot, is really this simple. he is the simplest main character in the game. like in the video, he is naive to a fault when, realistically, he has no reason to be considering his surroundings and his own brother. Also, who could play a character like papyrus? could you truly act this way and NEVER slip once? it would be easier to fabricate the memories. OR, papyrus isn't an actor because maybe, he doesnt need to. we know he has seen grass (gets cut off by sans), but doesnt know what the sun is. we know he was a shut in in deltarune, so whats to say he is just living a better life in undertale? this would mean sans knowingly lets him die, but i guess it won't matter if the anomaly will reset anyway? either way, i think the theory as a base is 100% accurate in the sense of explaining the brothers existence in the game, but just needs some rearrangement (so like 80% true). there is a lot to say, too much for here.
given how "lost souls" are showing the worst parts of them, papyrus reverting back to his initial state might actually be what he loathes the most, he HAS to play a part, he DOESNT get to be himself, instead he must make a fool of himself 24/7, so its reflected in the the lost soul part
The thing with Papyrus's "Lost Soul" dialogue is that he falters pretty quickly. He says that he must capture a human but goes silent midway through explaining why. That part always struck weird to me because all the other monsters seem pretty direct when falling back into their old destructive mindset, while Papyrus still seems hesitant. Is it that his own issue is that he doesn't actually know what he wants? Does he still feel the need to hide his insecurities even as a lost soul? "Then everyone will..." Will what? This piece of dialogue makes it sound like either he doesn't know what he wants himself or the entire thing was a ruse that he feels the need to keep up. Personally, I think it leans more towards to the former but Papyrus's ambiguity even as a lost soul can be taken in so many different ways
@noobhoot06 yeah, I know, Toriel and Asgore. My emphasis wasn't on the ellipses itself but the cut off at the end of the sentence. Toriel and Asgore both convey what they think they must do, with the pause signifying doubt/reluctance on their behalf. Papyrus's pause feels more ambiguous then that, although I think it represents confusion more than anything
Always loved the concept of someone being a professional in talking down beings not only stronger than them but completely above comprehension. Basically having to play by the god's rules in order to subjugate it as a mortal. Like, an immortal is easy, find a way to trap it or make it not immortal and you've won. This is something else entirely. Though, I guess you could argue it's impossible to lose in this case? You only need to win once. Presuming the time traveller is destined to repeat the same loop to infinity, you're bound to succeed one of these loops. Specifically you succeed on the "first" one you experience.
Yeah i also like this, could make for some cool series. Reminds me a bit of Dr. Who Anyways about the "you can't lose" That's not necessarilly true. They don't know anything about the anomaly... what if it's a literal god? What if it knows everything about you no matter what? What if it can eliminate you the very moment the appear into it's world and does that for every reset? What if it's literally invincible? But for the context of what actually happens in Undertale, then you're kinda right. They just didn't know it before coming into the anomaly's world (if this theory, or part of it, is right)
I TEARED UP almost every time "You really wish he wasn't there with you" was said. LIKE, WHEN I REALIZED ALL THIS "SECOND PERSON" BUSINESS I TWARED UP BECAUSE HOW PAINFUL IT MUST BE. Both for Sans to see terrible things happening to Papyrus and Papyrus realizing through what he must go I'm so sad and interested of that concept in your head
[With this eqipped, you'll be able to glean important information from the local denizen's facial expressions and conduct!] [You could have done this already, but since you don't remember last week, isn't it easier to have it explained to you in plain text? Tee-hee-hee!]
This is deeply funny because it means the Sans and Papyrus of my Undertale world were incredibly confused when the entity just got the Pacifist route and let that play out, never touching the game again.
I'm picturing them just doing their thing thinking a reset is going to happen and then it just never comes lmao "SANS IT'S BEEN YEARS I THINK IT'S OVER" "...huh"
Acron is a real-time-stratgy game with time travel, where you constantly give orders to units in the past, so everyone can unto a lot of things by giving back orders further in the past than the mistake. 2 buildings teleport trough space or time, and some units can do some limited time travel without those (3 very different factions) It proposes a smart solution to the grandfather-paradox, by basically using modulo-arithmetic back ti "the first moment in time" so the long term outcome of any time travel paradox depends on "timing", and it ceases to be paradoxical, its just messy and harder to predict what happens, when a unit destroys the factory, that it was build in, before that unit was build there. it is wild, and it mostly suffers from being too nice and from bad audio and some limits to visuals and game-play, in favor of handling all the time travel stuff.
The only way for person 1 and 2 to defeat the anomaly is for the anomaly to suspend its disbelief (become immersed in the world) in its own powers. To suck them in, so to speak.
excellent video, i always suspected that papyrus foolishness is utterly suspicious. specialy afetr deltarun "egg man", wich correlates to papyrus romance scene with the egg
The scariest part about this video is we, the anomaly, are continuing our investigation of these two to this day. Otherwise, this video wouldn’t exist. When future deltarune chapters come out, we’ll all dive right back in to keep up this game between us and these other anomalies
I've honestly never played Undertale, but if I were the time traveler in control of a time loop, this would work on me. After all, half the fun of a time loop is surprising people with knowledge you shouldn't know about. You probably wouldn't need more than like 3 loops to figure out where I put my time machine and turn it off.
Hahahaha fr!! Btw, this probably doesn't interest you, but i do want to say that in Undertale, the "anomaly" doesn't really use a time machine and probably doesn't really undertand the whole thing itself. So yeah, it's a pretty tough situation for those who wish to stop the time resets
@@jestfullgremblim8002 The Anomaly the video is referring to is Flowey, The player is a second anomaly that arrives some time afterwards. The video references the player with the bit about a second anomaly to save them from the first.
people forget a lot of the time (or just never realized) that "the anomaly" sans refers to is flowey. you could buy undertale for the first time, do geno immediately, never reload a save once, and sans will still talk about the anomaly- this isn't a plot hole toby figured nobody would ever fall into, its that asriel was revived some time before the 8th human fell and has been messing around with resets for seemingly years. this theory posits that sans arrived in undertales world after asriel was reborn as flowey, but considering the deja-vu some characters feel after most runs (not sans' body language expertise), its likely that timeline shenanigans have some sort of tangible effect on the world, and sans' reports may be based on that instead of outside observation. asgore seemingly being aware of resets (you can tell asgore that hes killed you before, and he nods sadly in response) adds credence to this, since from sans' words there were multiple people working on the research, and if this research took place in undertale (more on that below) its likely asgore oversaw it. (though maybe one of the fallen humans told him? so its not concrete.) all that said, when sans accuses you of being the anomaly, while he's factually wrong, he might as well be right. as the player, with previous runs considered (and undyne the undying for good measure), youve likely reloaded saves dozens of times by now. and just as flowey said right before the sans fight, youve done what floweys done, by treating the world as a game to be explored. i really don't think papyrus is in on it though. i personally think that deltarune sans arrives from undertale, in a timeline where the player gets true pacifist, but proves to sans that theyre a time traveller first. if sans, as a monster, enters the surface with the knowledge that frisk can freely manipulate time, i don't think that he's gonna let his life be at the anomalys whim any more. sans says in his fight that "getting to the surface doesnt appeal to [him] anymore" since he figures itll be ripped away. usually he's right on the money, but i think that actually arriving on the surface would curb his nihilism enough for him to do something about it, hence his fixing his machine and taking a trip to deltarune. did he take papyrus with him? big maybe. hed have no idea if the place he was headed was safe or not, so maybe not at first. maybe thats why we havent seen papyrus yet... but now that he's aware of time travelling humans, you bet he's gonna prepare to meet one- making his house and local business look the exact same as places in the underground (grillbys being " 'sans ", christmas lights on his house despite it being fall), finding the place in this new world that parallels the original, just in case another one shows up... which makes his calm reaction to "its nice to see you again" feel pretty chilling. sure, the last time-manipulating human he met was nice, but finding out that travelling to a whole other world didnt spare you from being at a time travellers mercy has gotta be horrifying. not to mention this world has an equally bad (if not worse) worst case scenario with the roaring. assuming having a face thats locked into a permanent smile (only ever slightly faltering when being mortally wounded) helps him with the poker face. sans' comment in chapter 2's ending about how it "may take a couple years" is probably just a meta joke about the games release schedule (susie has a similar line, but i dont think sans researches time irregularities with a delinquent high schooler. or maybe she does and clam girl is in on it... and clam girl seems to be a gaster follower... gaster confirmed? kidding of course.) but maybe its sans researching deltarunes timeline after meeting kris and seeing chapter 1 restart for about 3 years in this messed up groundhogs day, even worse than in undertale, but with chapter 2 the groundhogs day extends into a groundhogs weekend, and thats where the joke comes from? maybe susie saying that is the deja vu effect? does sans know that the anomaly this time is gaster??? i have no real thoughts on papyrus deltarune. is he the knight? did he come from undertale? is he a shadow on the wall of a cave? we don't know and i wouldn't be shocked if we never know, even after deltarune is fully out. im only expecting a packet of dried dino egg oatmeal to be a healing item if theres ever a sans shop dark world.
I don'tlike that this was recommended to me...
It's time.
fr
Same, the problem is that I don't wanna kill Marty
Your song is ending...
Start running.
Imagine how terrified they must be after investigating the anomaly they return to their own world and suddenly someone they’ve never seen before has seen them before.
Oof that’s why I never selected that dialogue option it’s beyond terrifying
The anomaly was flowey but when sans figths us he thinks its the player
@@JcoleMc
It _was_ Flowey, until we arrived.
@RedStarPSO what line?
@zipzop7873 when you see sans in Deltarune for the first time you can say something like “it’s good to see you again”(don’t remember the exact words) and he’ll be confused because it’s the first time you met
Flowey being visible in the distance really adds to the effect, because while it might be odd that there's a random intact sunflower in the snow, you don't know the norms of this world. he doesn't just have a stealth advantage, he's basically playing prophunt with you but he's both the prop AND the hunter
I didn't even notice! This video is really genius...
And sanses reaction!!
He knows that he's in scenarios 3-5, as said-- because there was nobody to greet them
But isn’t flowey there to greet them technically? He has a save function
@@hackermanz4432 it's unclear what he's gonna do. he hasn't directly approached yet
When?
This is a more terrifying way to think about Undertale's story than I had ever considered
what even happens in undertale?(never played the game)
@@uhskewgo play the game and find out
@@Numbabuseriously?
@@uhskewi'm more curious now too...
@@sergiomarc4826 yeah! it’s really good!
i love how this video talks about a theory with undertale without explicitly mentioning undertale, making it applicable to the wider question it tries to answer without falling back onto undertale's world as a crutch for explanation
this also doubles as an effect to reach a broader audience lol
very well made, great job! :D
i've never interacted with or played undertale so i was getting into it on a normal sci fi level. at the very end of the video he finally explicitly reveals the undertale connection and im just sitting there like "well shit this was all an undertale video"
@tyguy275 yup, it's honestly cool how the video is structured
@@tyguy275 if you ever feel like playing Undertale I strongly recommend knowing as little as you can about the Game!
It just means that i found this video accidentally and spent a while getting my brain mashed into soup by the most hypnotizing and confusing video on this platform
@user-vl5qu6dx9d yeah, I think having the knowledge of how undertale works would help understanding this video, but i don't think it's done poorly regardless
The most terrifying thing about being stuck in a time loop: suddenly seeing something new
One sentence horror story
The most terrifying thing about entering a time loop created by something else? You'll never know if something is different.
Remove the comma or replace it with a colon and remove is.
@@Dogan_TM okay
That sentence reminds me of a Comic
Beyond just being a wild Undertale theory, this is just a really cool think piece in general about fighting time travelers
right?? I feel like this would be an amazing sci fi book or smthn
I didn't even realize this had anything to do with Undertale at first 😭
@@thememerytp1414 nah those are just non-descriptive blurry skeletons, definitely not sans and papyrus
@@shivaprakash4717 “How to kill a time traveler” is a book I would genuinely consider buying
@@joemama2737its snas and apypurs
This makes so much sense considering the fact that Papyrus is still happy upon being killed, and the fact that the machine in the basement serves no known purpose to the player.
Can you elaborate I don't understand
@TimeTimes12 After you kill Papyrus in the genocide route his head falls off and into his arms, but he keeps smiling and cracks a joke while dusting(can't remember the actual term). While all the other monsters either say nothing, get mad, or they are sad.
@OverlordTRM That actually happens in the neutral route (when killing papyrus) with the "ALAS, POOR PAPYRUS" (which is quoting shakespeare) and "WELL, AT LEAST I STILL HAVE MY HEAD!" This still aligns super well with your comment, and the geno dialogue goes well with it too! Since when he dies in that one, he continues to plead to the anomaly's concious by insisting that they can still be a good person because he (in this theory) knows that there is no way in which fighting them could stop them completely, but appealing to emotions may!
But what if the machine is a faux? A wrong path? After all, Sans gives you the key to his room of his own will after you prove to him without shadow of a doubt you're an anomaly, he knew what you would've seen so why would he reveal this extremely sensitive information about himself to you specifically after learning how dangerous you are, if not to mislead you...?
@fedethegreat88 because to Sans and Papyrus...
You arent the first anomaly, you are the second *stronger* one that is able to flip the scale and possibly break the cycle
Explains flowey saying not to let Sans find anything out about you.
Exactly
Flowey doesn't say "don't let Sans find out anything about you", all he says is to not underestimate him.
I stand corrected by the reply below - he says BOTH "Don't let Sans find out ANYTHING about you" and also mentions not to underestimate him.
@@reaperz5677flowey straigth UP Tells you to Not let the Smiley trash bag find out anything about you after SEVERAL neutral runs
@@reaperz5677 he literally says it after a neutral run (i think it was there, but im sure he says it somewhere)
@@reaperz5677 he literally says it in the same message when he first calls him "smiley trashbag"
I love theories that acknowledge that Papyrus is just as opaque about his orgins as Sans. Plus, his speech to the player in the No Mercy route can easily be read as trying to appease something he knows he can't beat physically, in much the same way as Sans tries to bore/annoy the player into giving up in the same route. They cannot possibly harm us, so playing on the Entity's theoretical emotions is the last desperate tactic they can try. For some players, maybe that even worked.
That is something I thought of myself. If the anomaly can’t be overpowered maybe persuasion is the only chance. And yes, I love that this theory gives both brothers a sense of importance and not just sans being the front with papyrus being largely out of the picture
It definitely makes sense for the two to act that way, the player can just come back anytime they don't succeed and so the only thing that can really make them reconsider would be emotions like boredom or feeling sorry for a character like Papyrus. So them trying to appeal to one's conscience or frustrate one is really all they can do
Sadly, for Sans at least, if you make it to him the Sunk Cost Fallacy starts kicking in so even if you are bored or frustrated you will likely still continue on just because you made it that far.
“no mercy route”
Aww, look who can’t say *GENOCIDE*
Lowkey I’m that player, I got stuck on undying but came back a few months beat him and got to sans which I got maybe half way into the sans boss fight but dropped it again for elden ring or sum 😂 It’s just a shame that in my game he’s won but at the cost of his brother😢
What really kills me about this is that the plan worked. They stopped Flowey for centuries, that's why Flowey allows time to pass enough to lose his powers...
To a even worst anomaly
Actually i think it wasn't really their plan. Flowey simply did EVERYTHING he could do and got bored, as anyone would, of course.
It seems like he could never get the humans souls and make it out, but that wasn't Sans' or Papyrus' doing (or at least it does not seem that way) so yeah, Flowey basically won. But he just had nothing else to do
the plan did allow for experience once the second anomaly appeared
@@jestfullgremblim8002Despite the fact that Flowey does say Sans caused most of his resets.
@@cerebralcloud92 why do tou say "despite the fact"? I kinda don't understand that haha
But me being dumb aside, yeah Sans cooked Flowey up haha
What are you talking about...? Have you never played Undertale? Flowey stopped nobody. He did everything he could. He made all the friends and enemies he could. He just stopped because he saw there was nothing more to do.
If this theory or something close to it is true, I wonder if the reason Toby is refusing to show us Deltarune Papyrus is because his personality will be *_very_* different from Undertale Papyrus. After all the Deltarune version wouldn't need to be constantly acting in order to fool the anomaly
Toby once said that Papyrus was originally going to be a gentleman wearing a fedora or something
@@axosotll the dating scene checks out then
Maybe the ending of Deltarune will tie into the beginning of Undertale. But not as a prequel or anything, I mean what if Deltarune Sans and Papyrus are sent to Undertale somehow at the end of Deltarune and thus begins the loop.
Wow, that would be CRAZY if true. Papyrus the Undertale would be confirmed Papyrus the Pretender
You use undertale knowledge as to befriend Papyrus, and then... They will know.
The 500KG bomb I planted under the save point that activates miliseconds after they save:
Then they delete their save and go to the origin, and they know not to use that save. Ur cooked then
You know that we can just reset the game right
the anomaly can take notably larger steps back, "breaking" a single node of the tree won't do much
⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️⬇️
@@helloiminigo7347yummy helldivers reference
Sans reaction at the end wasn't to snowdin or anything like that, it was to the fact that the silence there means it's likely scenario's 3-5 since the anomaly didn't introduce themselves nor killed him on the spot.
Yes! Glad I'm not the only one who caught that. Still I wonder how Flowey / two anomalies plays into this.
@@normalman6078 well snaz and pap had been around in snowdin for a while so the orginal Anomaly would be flowey. and then when Flowey gets bored and Frisk comes along it changes
Yep, I though he reacted to snowdin for a sec, but then I realized it was cause the 3-5 scenarios. Great detail
Flowey can even be seen stalking him in the distance, where the Christmas tree would be.
@@evilmurlocksame!
Now imagine the horror of either escaping to a different timeline later, or returning to your home, and suddenly, there's someone you don't know and have never seen before, telling you that they know you, and your brother.
And then you have to play it off as if it’s nothing and make a joke about befriending their mother
@@KK-hd1jw "befriending"
Yeah like
"Haha yeah nice seeing you again I fucked your mom and stuff (dear fucking angel above not this again)"
If Deltarune happens "before" Undertale from Sans' perspective, is it possible that the "nice to see you again, I already know things about you that I shouldn't" was the seed that Sans used to base this plan on?
@@pikmints bit of a paradox
“You really wish he wasn’t here with you”
God that hurts, man
If he just accepted flipping a coin everything would be easier but alas... He is the guy that you dont want him tı be there wüth you
i didnt undertand that part. And I also didnt understand "you wish the socks on the other foot didnt you?"
@mr.condekua6141 Sans loves his brother. He really wished that he didn't involve Papyrus into this mess of a situation
@@mr.condekua6141 Basically, Sans cares a lot about his brother and the plan they made involves Papyrus potentially dying a lot and he can't do anything about it, so Sans wishes there was someone else who could be the 2nd person in the plan so he didn't have to put his brother in danger.
@@SpeedyCheetahCub To me, it seems that Papyrus willingly gave himself up to become the 2nd person, because we can see him knock away the coin that was being thrown. Which would make sans regret him coming even more sad.
Can’t believe they figured out the way to deal with dead timelines in a dream bubble
Homestuck? On my UT/DT content?
@ we are cousins
It's more likely than you think.
[Click here for a free PC scan!]
@CR1MSONACE hey. I've been seeing a lot of Niko on RUclips profiles lately. I wonder why.
SHUT UPPPP
If anyone needs clarifying, the anomaly here isn't us, it's Flowey. Flowey had been reseting the timeline for potentially thousands of years before we the Player arrived. Sans and Papyrus were investigating Flowey, they didn't expect us, a second anomaly, to arrive. Flowey didn't expect us either. (This is implied at the end when he mentions introducing a "Stronger Anomaly", referring to how us the Player overrided Floweys power over the timeline)
Who knows, maybe Deltarune is Sans and Papyrus running back to daddy Gaster saying "we found an even bigger anomaly! We need to catch it!"
Well technically the theory still applies to us, we are the bigger anomaly that Sans and Paps hope would swoop in. We just became the new main one
Flowey was the initial anomaly, one that's from the world the skelebros made it to. One they have the possibility to stop, because it still has to follow the basic structure of the bubble universe they're in.
The player is the unstoppable anomaly, because it's not from the skelebros world nor the world of the original anomaly. A being beyond the basic rules of that bubble universe.
There are two different anomalies.
the moment I realized that at the end.... jesus christ.
that’s why it’s just ‘the anomaly’
cause it doesn’t have to be us. plus, i don’t think sans knows that there are multiple anomalies. because he only mentions one in the fight. that’s cause when frisk shows up, flowey loses all of his potential to alert the timeline machine
@@seandorama5932sans: yay. you saved the day
Player: I’d say more like under new management.
Virgin "I must see all possible timelines"
Vs
Chad "The End? They all lived happily after ever? Splendid. Onto the next game."
Same. Played it, got the pacifist ending, no desire to get an ending that’d make me sad.
@@dadeamatic3772 I did that, and forced myself to go through the genocide route thinking i HAD to experience 100% of the game.
Despite dying so many times against Undyne and Sans, i enjoyed fighting against them since they were tough enough to take several tries, but after that i just felt sad about killing them (And i felt even worse for Mettaton, he could've been another big boss fight and i was expecting him to be one, but instead he died in one hit, still mad at Toby for that one...)
Literally me. I took 2 year long breaks from the game after getting my ass handed to me by Muffet and Asgore, and after finally getting pacifist just never opened the game again. Screw genocide players, I want a happy ending
nice try sans
@@BW20532dude, i think that i died more times to Undyen than to Sans back then 😂
Even if this doesn’t end being true, I want someone to make this idea an actual story. A time loop story where an outsider inserts themself into the cycle to try and kill something with complete and total control over the scenario. All they have are ideas, a control of the flow of information, and the ability to predict and adapt on the fly. The ultimate underdog story, one person fighting against impossible odds and, hopefully, triumphing and breaking the cycle.
Re zero arc 9
@@egg3909 I never saw it, maybe I'll look for it later. I think the plot is about a loop using the logic of a game or last saving point, right?
How do you break a cycle like that?
Only gripe is that for the outsider, they *cant* improvise. The main part of the scenario is that to the outsider they may be adapting, but to the entity this is the same idea they've seen them have over and over again.
The only thing they can use is planning, so much that the entity would not even suspect that such a level of planning would be used or feasible.
This would be an interesting concept to make into a series or a one-off, perhaps showing different timelines "chronologically" (in the order that the entity visits them), but from the perspective of the outsider, so we gradually see that the entity gains more and more knowledge about the outsider while they remain oblivious. Until eventually, simultaneously, the penny drops.
This scenario would however require a "no resets after entity death" rule, so that there is a win condition for our protagonist.
It's been done, Mother of Learning is basically this but with magic
You should read "The 7 1/2 Deaths of Evelyn Hardcastle."
so uhhhh this is a completely earth shattering theory, otherwise known as a
big if true
small if false
also it's not even a theory as such, necessarily, it's just logic, I mean, it's theory the same way mathematics is theory
@jan_haraldyou when you find out how we form hypothesis
plus logic can be false.
@jan_harald it’s a theory because they don’t actually know if it’s true or not, it’s a possible truth but there are tons of “unproven” assumptions made in this video that could very likely be true we don’t know if it actually is true or not. Mathematical logic and proofs are built on the logic of “if this one thing is true then this other thing absolutely has to be true as well” which is different this video which is closer to a proposed scenario
@jan_harald Yeah, about that...
Science _is_ a theory. Just the least likely to be false. So we Occam-off that uncertain "What if false?" part for the everyday convenience.
So, yeah, funny comparison.
This theory blows my mind. The idea that they CAME to Undertale because of detecting the anomaly while in Deltarune.... Brilliant!
Toby Fox created of the plot of Deltarune before releasing Undertale so he may have planned this from the start.
@EvdogMusic exactly!!! It all fits. "What do you two think?" hits even harder now.
Me a conveinence store worker when i discover
the anomaly
time to pack up paps
The one problem I have with the theory is that resets also occur in deltarune, and sans and paps are (presumably) the same in both deltarune and undertale. So why would they leave their timeline with its own anomaly to deal with another, seemingly unrelated, one?
@Cosmolermmm I see your point, and you've convinced me that my comment was wrong - however, don't discount the video! Maybe they are not coming from Deltarune, but from whatever other realm, trying to fix the anomaly across BOTH worlds. After all, they "just moved" to Hometown as well.
It just occurred to me, this video opened up a brand new worst-case scenerio in some coppies of Underrale, cause now a hypothetical plan of theirs is laid bare, now the Anomaly by sharing and compiling information with other Anomalies of similar nature can now counter an otherwise flawless plan...
The plan never was for us, the anomaly in this video was Flowey. We are the stronger anomaly that would end up either saving or destroying the timeline for good
underrale lol
@@Solesteam I believe that Asgore and Gaster are working together to counter anomaloes like the player
Asgore is person 2 naive , gullible simple interest , invinting , friendly
And Gaster is person 1
Unlike sans and papyrus Asgore and Gaster's plan is to erase the anomaly entirely and stop new ones from occuring essentially ending Undettale and I believe this what's going to happen in Deltarune when toby says Deltarune only has one ending .
Asgore and Gaster's plan is to lead to an outcome where the universe of Undertale can no longer be determined by the player .
@@JcoleMc What type of headcanon is that? 😭
@@cameronforbes1072 I mean Asgore and Gaster would've knew eachother Gaster was the royal scientist wethier Asgore is willingly aware of this plan or Gaster is manipulating him to be person 2 I don't know .
You somehow managed to combine an elaborate interpretation of Undertale that fits the story down to the obscure details, *and* create a sophisticated thought experiment, all the while respecting the viewers’ intelligence, saying no more than you need to, and wasting no time. Not to mention the editing and narration. I have nothing negative to say about this video!
This is what i use the internet for! Bravo, sir!
I'll also add onto this about an older theory I've seen online. The monsters who try the hardest to kill you - Sans, Undyne, Mettaton, most Core enemies - are also the ones with the most animated sprites in battle. Someone like Toriel, by contrast, mostly just stands still, fighting but not trying to kill you.
Papyrus doesn't move in his battle. It's not like a budget thing; he moves around, has different expressions, just generally does stuff when you go on his quirky little date. But in his battle? Completely, utterly, motionless. Identical to a statue. He isn't just not trying to kill you, like Toriel. He's giving the fight absolutely, positively, ZERO discernible effort. We do NOT know what this skeleton is truly capable of.
It was called "blink, motherfucker," right? peak analysis.
The real reason is likely because Toriel and Papyrus were done earlier in development, and Toby Fox had more experience by time he made the other bosses. It's pretty reasonable to assume that the Papyrus date was made later on since its for the true ending.
@@theonetruemilkman4894BOOO.. (nice and informative) BOOO! RUINED THE MOOD. (Thanks for your service).
@@theonetruemilkman4894 "real reason" i.e. out of universe versus "theory" i.e. in-universe, both are valid explanations from different perspectives
@@theonetruemilkman4894i feel like toby would have went back and added animations to them, then, no? not entirely disagreeing with you, but still its odd.
I love how this theory doesn't explain what undertale is. It just gets into it and assumes you already know all the information
Ngl I kinda wish that was there I forgot everything T_T
Still a banger vid tho
It doesn't even specify Undertale, just a story of you and a sapient time anomaly looking for the unachievable and how you'd try to stop it forever.
You don't even need to know it's about undertale to understand it...
It's not even a theory? Did you listen to the video
its using undertale as a base because literally almost everyone at least knows what a reset is
@@Sansir0 what's a reset?
the part about needing an angel to save you, that makes me think that this might actually be about Flowey. Especially since Flowey is the one that manipulates Papyrus in the story, and by the time Frisk appears, Sans and Papyrus are already there and people already know them.
yeah the anomaly discussed in this video and plan is flowey, since he had control of the timeline before frisk's arrival and is responsible for the resets that brought sans and papyrus to this timeline in the first place
plus flowey is the one who knows papyrus' favorite food is oatmeal with dinosaur eggs
its also interesting that frisk just takes floweys place, and their plan still works. Its really cool
Flowey is in the end of the video
I think this would classify as a Mad god since you know...so many rests he did everything
Because flowey is just looking at the end of vídeo, and not showing a perfect world being made or they are not killed right after this is a 3 or 5, that why says "fuck"
@ArcheLyric it's just an example for the video right ? Papyrus favorite food is spaghetti, right..?
@@Cam3- No. There was an AMA for Undertale characters and Toby only chose the question "What is Papyrus's favorite food?" and while the answers were all entertaining, there was only one person who actually answered the question: Flowey. He stated that Papyrus's favorite food is oatmeal with dinosaur eggs, and he expressed confusion about how no one else knew this information.
Really appreciate that this video makes zero direct references to any particular pieces of media, yet indirectly does so, which adds extra layers of interactions, for those who know. Thank you for the excellent video
"those who know"💀
In all serious I totally agree, I could share this video to a friend who is unfamiliar with undertale as it's framed as a thought experiment as opposed to a traditional fan theory.
THOSE WHO KNOW: 💀💀💀
@@MrMauio the demolition team is on the way
TOES WHO NOSE 💀💀
those who know:
The one scary part that isn't addressed in this video (I know it's talking about Flowey and not us). Is that the Player (Anomaly 2), is not alone. There is Millions of other Anomaly 2's, but you don't know that. But the Anomaly 2 does, and can communicate, watch, learn and plan with other Anomalies (Other than the 1st one).
That is scary.
this implies that sans's biggest enemy is the undertale fanbase
So #5 it is then
chari it is...
@@chariballs I mean after the shit we seen on the internet about undertale its probably very close to the truth.
Thank you for the tutorial bro, I've been stuck on this boss for months
No way he is fighting jesus lmao
@@IkerTG what do you mean by jesus lmao i do not understand
@@ComentaristaComún3414 imagine fighting a time traveler in real life lmao
Idk why i called him jesus, i guess cause it's a jesus level threat xd
And maybe the anomaly is trying to fight you, specifically because they saw your name in the soundtrack on a song that they've never heard before!
Perfect execution of taking a complex topic from a umbrella source and isolating it to the point that it can stand on its own as a comprehensible topic. Good work!
why is it genuinely terrifying when sock muppet slides on screen
the wet footsteps
I think it’s because, (as someone who’s only watched this video by them so far) their avatar is so much like a blob that it scares you simply because it’s an amorphous enough silhouette that you can’t really tell what it is. which can be a little anxiety inducing by itself, not to mention when it’s supposed to be representing a character’s whose motive are already being questioned. I didn’t even realize till at the end and I went to their channel to subscribe that the blob representing the anomaly was supposed to be their avatar.
The Amalgam
This theory is so well done. It perfectly describes the abject hopelessness and uncertainty of the situation the two brothers are in. The narration done is perfect with the narration addressing sans and papyrus. With sans being the one listening “you really wish he didn’t come with you didn’t you?” By far my favorite theory for the masterful telling alone, amazing work
this is some scp "there is no memetics division" type shit and i love it. never got too much into the lore of undertale but this genuinely explains so much, thank you
So glad someone else felt similarly, definitely giving off "This room is the only room SCP-55XX (or whatever number) does not exist in" vibes
@@valuerie hope you remember which it is
scp 3125
(code is 55555)
@@schippai3308Just search "There is no Antimemetics Division", there's a reading list order you should follow. The first half also has some short films on YT about it that captures the essence of "information means death".
@@galaxychill9578 (and 3125 is 5^5)
also man i love the antimemetics div tales
That ending reveal made everything click in place, every problem i had with it immediately became solved with some thought. This is a very interesting hypothetical, but this is also an absolutely amazingly produced video
I don't get the ending reveal???
Like, what?
It revealed nothing?
And why did sans react like that?
We all knew going in this was about Undertale, that was very clear very quickly, and obviously so does the POV character, aka sans, in the story, since he's the one who travelled here through the time machine. Like what???
The entire video we're led to understand they're going to snowdin to start figuring this whole thing out, and then the door opens, and it's revealed....to be snowdin, okay?? Yeah, like, that's exactly what we are expecting. Hello? Am I fucking missing something here? What are you on about and for that matter why did sans react like that, cursing as if something unexpected had happened???
@@Lunam_D._Roger
At the beginning of the video it was stated that the travelers would either be greeted, killed, or see nothing and be instantly killed on a later reset.
They saw nothing
I don't get the theory or ending fully but from what I can tell, Sans could tell Outcome 3 happened and they are kinda doomed to be stuck in a loop. A stalemate for all of eternity until either Outcome 2 (instant death w/ no reset) happens, or someone stronger than the anomaly enters. But then at that point they're right back at the start; stuck in a loop.
@@Lunam_D._Roger the first anomaly isn't frisk or the player
It's flowey
The player is the second anomaly
@@stanleydude3340And that seeing nothing is the worst outcome, because it means you're being stalked by the Anomaly
FINALLY someone that understands that Sans saw the flowey resets and cant distinguish it from yours. This is neat but i think they are more wanting a decent end as well as ending up there more by accident rather then sent, deltarune monsters but still monsters.
True. This would also explain why Sans bleeds and dies off-screen.
Actually, i've heard about this being discussed simce the very begginings of the game. I thought that everyone knew of this fact? Everyone that i've seen talking about the "Our reports showed a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum. timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting... until suddenly, everything ends." quote, mentions that this was definitely Flowey's doing.
After all, Flowey outright tells us he was doing this stuff, and Sans tells us that Papyrus sometimes speaks with a flower. Everyone that thinks about it enough will arrive to the same conclusion
@@rarewubbox6413why does this explain that?
@@jestfullgremblim8002 Yeah but then 98% of people never said shit about it from what i've seen.
@@yourdemiseishere ohh, seems like i have been lucky(?) to not have encountered them hahaha
Great theory! I like the idea of Papyrus being smarter than he seems. Doesn't really make sense how Sans can be a genius time travelling fourth wall breaker while Papyrus, his brother, is an idiot.
I don't see how it doesn't make sense? Brothers don't always have the same skills and knowledge?
I don't think Paps is an idiot at all, but I don't see how Paps not having all the same knowledge and skills as Sans doesn't make sense.
That is just something that can pretty commonly happen.
Never forget that Papyrus can literally walk on air
@@Dragon_Aoidefinitley could, but he does reference time and space at the end of a pacifist run, and when u hangout at sans rooms. Don’t know if he’s joking completely though
Exactly, and with the hints papyrus has in game I think he should be thought of as having a similar if not different kind of intellect to sans
I love how it reimagines papyrus not as dumb but rather forced to play a role and he’s just doing his part and hiding as much if not more than sans. He would have to be extremely smart as to not let the mask slip once
"You cant make an undertale theory without making an undertale theory"
This guy: hold my pasta
This theory fits so many of the undertale plotpoints that it’s actually insane
True, i really want this one to be right
You just made an Undertale X SCP's "There is no antimemetics division"
ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL!
Information as a volatile resource, unreliable and dangerous to share or even know. You have to trust yourself, in whatever situation you were, to do the right thing.
And then, the ultimate flaw in any of these plans: when an assumption is made, like there only being ONE anomaly, then you have to go back to the drawing board, and with less allies alive to help. Loved ones, perhaps...
I absolutely love that scp and this video, this concept will never not fascinate me
Have you seen the short films that are on RUclips based on that series? Fairly recent and extremely good
@@RaptieFeathers which ones? I don't think I've encountered them before
Information safety is pretty closely tied to facing someone with time powers that also isn't omnipotent, at least when written competently. Go read Incidence on Ao3, it's a Deltarune fic that's honestly really good and could be a story of its own and handles this idea really well.
Will always and forever love SCP stuff. For this reason, knowing you've enjoyed TINAD and on the topic of dead timelines (or Deadlines), I would recommend checking out the On Guard 43 Canon. Maybe start with SCP-5243
More specifically the Words of Power and Poison to get the background needed (there's a lot, and all of it is very worth it). And then read the trilogy of books that are The Breach that Keeps on Breaching (Bury the Survivors, Wrong Tomorrow and Deadlined. Deadlined is partially interweaved with TINAD). All of it wonderfully written by Harry Blank over on the SCP wiki
Toby fox will now introduce a character "Mop Suckit" in chapter 3 who rants about time travel and iterations and anomalies whilst sans throws coins out of pity
He'll then seeth with soyjack rage as he ret-cons everything so you're not bang on
That’d be Scott Cawthon, not Toby Fox
the undertale kids are now delta rune chuds and soyteens
that's scott cawthon but ok
Homestuck
Mop Suckit Mpreg
I always thought a core part of Sans character was his relationship to you in regards to the time travel powers you posses, rather than the relationship to you in regards to the fact that you are a human like it is for most of the cast. Most of the cast understands you as a standard member of an oppressive group, but Sans (and according to you, papyrus) understands you as more than that, an inherently dangerous, unpredictable, and unstoppable force. He is the one who understands just how much he is subject to you, and it dictates his behavior and attitude.
I think your theory compounds on this idea very nicely, and also throws papyrus into the mix as well. He’s not any different, at least in that aspect, he’s just very good at pretending he is, as different as he possibly could be in fact.
One of the biggest give-aways that Papyrus is more than he seems is the fact that he cannot accidentally kill you.
The rest of the Monsters? They will mercilessly tear you to shreds.
Even *TORIEL* can ACCIDENTALLY kill you. You see her reaction for a split second. A couple frames. She's Horrified at what she's just done. And it was a complete accident. A lack of control.
But Papyrus?
1 hp. Every time. Over. And over. And over. Without fail.
How much *control* does he have over his own magic? That takes more than a bumbling idiot with a big heart.
@@mdbgamer556 He also is the only character in the game to not move at all in battle. Toriel barely moves because she's barely trying, but he's completely still.
@@renownerd.276 Yup! Even Sans sways from foot to foot in his battle.
There are more things that point to Papyrus being like Sans. For one, "what do you two think?" which, to really abbreviate the analysis, must be referring to Sans + Papyrus or Alphys, assuming it's someone we know. Alphys ultimately doesn't quite make sense, so it has to be Papyrus, so he has to be doing the extreme verson of Sans' "be nice to the anomoly" plan, while being perfectly deceptive about it (actively doing things is Sans' job). For another, Papyrys is very supportive of the evil anomoly for no apparent reason given how he acts in the other routs, in a way that might guilt them into abandoning the timeline that ends. There are more, but those are the two which got me thinking Papyrus has to know what Sans does in the first place.
@@delta3244 hmm well flowey and frisk differs greatly,
Flowey while being able to control timelines, one holds no power and knowledge outside the game,
Frisk on the other hand is litterally the conduit of the player, a vessel for a cosmic horror may say, connection outside of reality
Too bad Frisk don't speak, If Frisk can speak for us, it would be an even greater angel than one already was, or the astronomically more horrifying one, especially since some players knows the hypothetical plans fully
Scenario 3rd but strange; as the anomaly somehow gains 200+ iq, it figures out this plan those two had, and confront those two about it, a new branch was opened from an intervention from the outside, the bubble weakens
What’s crazy about this is that no matter how well thought out the plan is, they will NEVER meet the anomaly. They will meet Frisk, maybe they will even find out they are inhabited by a soul that is not theirs, but they can’t even consider the idea of the real anomaly aka the player who’s actually in charge of the resets.
wait till deltarune pulls some ddlc shit
The Anomaly in question during 98% of the video is actually flowey, not us. We are the 2nd anomaly mentioned in the last few minutes.
This has got to be one of my peak favorite theses of Undertale. Just how you frame the entire video, you don't even unblur a single sprite purposefully to keep us distant from our memory and inherent bias of the game to effect how we view the video. You present it to us as a completely separate idea -which it can still be- but give just enough of a nod so the entire weight that experience hangs on us in the background.
Fucking amazing work
This is the best theory I’ve heard in years loved all of it
How do you casually drop one of the most conceptually interesting videos not just on Undertale but a sci-fi plot in general?
E: Would like to say please try Kubera (on Mangadex since the official translations are kinda mixed in quality) if you want a story that does time travel extremely well. It's different from the idea in the video, but is equally interesting to me as a reader.
@@pyroBadguy thank you!!! Yes!!!
I almost wish this was just an independent story. Cause even if it isn’t canon (which let’s be real it probably isn’t) it’s such a cool idea that I wish it existed in some capacity as a legitimate story premise.
@@shady8045it’s a premise that’s kind of shared in some SCP stories, if that interests you.
@@shady8045bet
I'm reading a manga that uses this concept as a part of its story, it's "Hero has returned"
This theory did not have to go this hard. Amazing.
1) This video is amazing. Only until I watched it and looked at comments did I realize it was talking about Flowey, not us. I re-watched it and It made everything fit even better and the reveal at the end was so good. I didn't even know about the oatmeal thing so I looked it up and finding a picture of only Flowey saying it was so cool.
2) This video is such a cool idea for what happens next too. Frisk shows up and overrides Flowey's ability to save and reset. So now for Sans and Papyrus they have to deal with a different person with the same abilities but what they can do to stop/kill them could be completely different than what they were already trying to figure out. And the worst part is, this isn't Flowey, an entity that exists solely inside of the bubble they entered. This is something that's controlling an entity inside the bubble from the outside. And even worse still, this isn't the only bubble they can touch.
The real problem for sans and papyros it’s the point 2
The bigger issue is also, that remember - they can't communicate anymore, all that is safe is now gone - the second anomaly has control above what they could've planned for. It's now completely up to chance, though I hope it's real and is in sync with deltarune's one ending
0:10 why does your sock sound wet, WHY DOES YOUR SOCK SOUND WET
because it was in the washing machine
"It may be the beginning...
Of the longest day of your life."
Well if that is not the best description of Undertale i ever heard.
(For the monsters that is.)
Kindergarten?
Homestuck too.
Acts 1-5 all occurring around a *single* day (not to mention, happening to a bunch of 13 year old children too)...
I feel like that line came from either the marketing, or movie called Groundhog day with Bill Murray in it because that sounds familiar.
@@mechamedegeorge6786
(Undertale opening sound)
Outer Wilds too
This feels like one of the few videos to "understand" sans deal and that it isn't "he somehow remembers resets," but something a lot more scientific/deductible.
However, would add that while this theory kind of assumes that Papyrus is the one who gets information about the anomaly (which would either be Frisk or Flowey in resets before or after Frisk fell down,) sans does seem to get some direct information from Frisk during the game.
Frisk's reaction to the whoopie cushion in the hand trick tells him if this is or isn't the first reset.
Their reaction to the whole "you haven't died a single time" tells him if they have died during the game's events.
And from the judgment hall, he can tell if Frisk's heard his whole spiel before, which would tell him if they got his message or not, depending on the game's events. (Or, if they killed Papyrus, and he subtly highlights how the time travel powers weaken the self-defense argument.)
Idk maybe all of this stuff would work with Flowey, but sans' dialogue implies that he thinks Frisk is the original anomaly. (Then again, he seems to be aware that something's special/different about Flowey if you hang out with him at Grillbys, and he hints at it, but idk.)
Still, though, I have to appreciate this video solely for the fact that it actually tries to deduce how Sans (without "remembering resets") understands how Frisk and Flowey use determination/what they're trying to achieve. It's clear that sans uses a lot more deduction/educated guesses, rather than "Sans remembers the resets beyond the deja vu that most seem to have." (Which isn't the shown canon.)
the logic is that Sans and pap dont know who the anomaly could be, and since flowey gave up trying to mess with the brothers a looong time ago, (he got clapped each time and the plan worked on him, flowey never killed sans), the player comes along.
We fall for the trap unaware, and he just assumes we are the sole anomaly, which we are now. Flowey uses his knowledge of papyrus to exploit him and whatnot, and since this falls outside of the parameters of 'the plan' , he gets away with what happens in true pacifist
Yeah, flowey uses the player and the brothers to steal everyones souls, knowing everyone would congregate in the throne room and stole the 6 souls all at once, crazy.
@@noobhoot06 That's not the question I had. Like, from this video it implies that Papyrus is the sort of "sacrificial lamb" to get info out of the anomaly, but what I'm pointing out is the (perceved flaw) in the video that sans seems to be fine with getting info directly from the anomaly instead of using Papyrus as a sort of middle man.
it makes more sense if sans also gathers information as the anomaly already knows sans is hunting it down it strengthens the anomaly's view that sans is the only threat while papyrus gets to fly under the radar. after all it would be really suspicious if sans the person hunting the anomaly didn't try to gather any information on the anomaly at all.
Another underrated scene which ties into this where Sans uses Frisk's facial expression to deduct whether they're the anomaly or not was the restaurant scene in MTT resort, when he says "you haven't died a single time", and figures out if he's wrong or right from your facial expression.
@@voidedcircle Yea, person 1 is suposed to be gathering as much information actively, and it doesnt matter if he gets discovered as a threat.
Biggest issue with the theory is how would person 1 figure out that the anomaly outed it self to person 2. Person 2 canot comunicate the information itself, because it could get intercepted and decoded by the anomaly, so person 1 has to figure out if the anomaly exists by his own observation of person 2s behaviour.
already seen the video, you wont kill me fool
wait the video came out 5 hours ago... how did you put this here 8 hours ago
@@nathancoronado8972 he could be the anomaly, might be a comment from an another timeline that glitched into ours...
My timeline ended unfortunately so I had to use unforeseen powers that be to split it into two separate dimensions and now here I am managing two versions of myself. Time travel’s hard folks, especially if you’ve sold your soul to an 11 year old.
is bro the actual anomaly
are we all side characters
bro is him
This video (and most of your other videos tbh) gives me the vibes of a crazy talker who ended up being right.
Like, it's such a new idea that's so out of the box, but when you really think about - it makes sense. Anyway, keep doing what you do best.
LOVE how menacing Flowey in the background is at the end. He's so innocuous from that distance. Just a friendly little flower. Man I love Flowey, man I love Sans and Papyrus.
(Not about Undertale but the whole anomaly timetraveler outcome situation)
The worst part about it all isn't the outcome of them becoming a mad god, or a evil monster, not even if the timeline resets or stops.
It's when the anomaly becomes the time traveler, and you find out why it's been trying over and over for some outcome. The fact the monster you knew wasn't the true monster. But a puppet in the grand scheme of things. That the anomaly itself, is also a time traveler who has a bit more control than you, a time traveler with its own cruel anomaly.
When you find out that yes it may been the 10th, 100th, 1'000th 1,000,000th reset for you, they may have had it reset infinite amount of times before you found out. This is just the timeline were you showed up.
The worst outcome is finding out that in this grand timeline of resets and stops, despite how you tried so hard to stop the anomaly. It all means nothing to you or the anomaly. How both of you are stuck in this cruel limbo for some higher being. And it may turn out that even the anomaly's anomaly has a anomaly. This whole situation may just be an endless chain of suffering and enjoyment.
And it won't stop
Have you heard of jacques vallee and the case agaisnt ufos its basically this but in real life
@JcoleMc no actually. Funny enough I had this years* long dream where that happened to me.
Gaster
Welp, if this doesn't describe "Higurashi no naku koro ni", I don't know what does. (Seriously, there's recently been MANY works of fiction that grapple the concept of time traveling in a 'reset' style: Undertale, Higurashi, Steins Gate, Madoka Magica, Erased, Re:Zero, and these are just the ones I can remember from the top of my head.
I'm confused what you're saying here, the point of the video is that the anomaly IS a time traveler already, and you are not. Do you mean that YOU become a time traveler?
Ok I think I get your comment now
Horror game idea: You play through a character struggling through all of this, and then it's revealed at the end that you're sans undertale
"You're Sans Undertale"
This is already a fate too dreadful to bear!
Earthbound
You reach the climax of the game, suspenseful music plays, and then you get jumpscared by text in the comic sans font saying that you are sans undertale
Ever since I was convinced Sans doesn’t remember resets, I always imagined it would be something like this. Because I had this exact thought experiment sometimes too, though I never thought it seriously. What would I tell someone to have them convince me in the past that they’re a time traveler? If I’m in a novel where there’s an infininte regressor, how will I make sure that they will take me to the end and treat me right in the final timeline, but also assure that I don’t get abused in some way? I always came to the conclusion that it would have to be a plan I put in place and held myself to before the time loop, and if I can’t do that, I’m nearly fucked.
Completely unrelated and I might be wrong but do I see an ORV reff??????
aha! caught you!
Okay, but the Oatmeal with Dinosaur Eggs being a secret codeword to determine and observe the anomaly is actually genius.
"Why am I the only one who knows this?!" - Flowey The Flower, aka the anomaly.
This just confirms something I've already suspected: in stories where a character time travels in a 'game reset' style, that world would be an indescribable eldritch torment for the side-characters who are aware of the time traveling but can't remember any of the timelines. Knowing that your fate is tied to someone else's actions and there's nothing you can do about it must be unimaginably horrifying and depressing, especially since the "easy way out" wouldn't even work because the moment the other character resets you'll be brought back to life against your will.
And when you’re eventually brought back, you won’t even know it; or how many times you have been brought back.
a lot of people are misunderstanding and think the anomaly is the player/human. i did too, because you use a silhouette of yourself to represent the anomaly, which can be assumed to be a stand-in for the viewer/player
What do you mean by this?
@ throuhout the video whenever he says “anomaly” he’s referring to flowey, the theory is that sans and papyrus are working together to get information on flowey. reading a few of the comments, people are mistaking it and think that frisk or the player are the anomaly. i’m just pointing this out as a bit of constructive criticism and as a warning that some people are misinterpreting the video
Well, it would seem like their plan worked on flowey. Definitely not with us, though. They apparently didn't have much of a plan for when a second anomaly arrived.
@@xxjoebamaxx7782well I assume plan B would be the same as Plan A, wait for another even more powerful entity to take control of the timeline.
Now their in a ♾️^2 loop :D
@@xxjoebamaxx7782I think Sans almost confirms this in his boss fight. He talks about the timelines going crazy, and then asks "That was you, wasn't it?"
He's genuinely confused now, he doesn't know what the anomaly is anymore. You? Flowey? You've confused him by this point in the game.
Instructions unclear, used my ultimate attack then fell asleep
"Fell asleep". Yeah right. You know it won't be satisfied. You know how it can still act. It's just yet another farce, another avenue to demonstrate your awareness of the situation, another way to close off its options. If you can just prove there's NO way to get through you. That's the only way it'll give up at this point. So it will attack on your turn. That's fine. Attacking is one of the few things restricting it. It's the same every time. You've dodged them all. This is no different. What's one mo-
There is a terrifying timeline where Flowey killed Papyrus and didn't reset the timeline before the player showed up and unintentionally usurping the save and load powers and preventing Flowey from resetting the timeline to get Papyrus back.
Yeah but i think that that's technically not possible? Not sure how the whole timeline thing works in the Undertale world, but it seems like no matter what, the 8th human will come by in the same situation...
We reaoly can't be sure about this one. Gosh, i really hate how mysterious Undertale is hahaha
@@jestfullgremblim8002 it's theoretically possible. the 8th human only gets control of the saves after they have fallen, so anything that happens before can be just whatever. the reason the underground is not messed up is because flowey, as he states, got bored bc he has already seen and done everything.
This feels like it would be a crazy if it ends up being close to the real theory. Like imagine in Chapter 3, 4, or 5 we learn that Papyrus acts completely different and basically proves UT Papyrus is all an act…a facade that tricked EVERYONE.
It would be equally amazing as it is depressing. I kinda hope Papyrus isn’t like that since in a way the character we adore wouldn’t have actually existed.
my hope is that papyrus acts differently, but retains his core personality of believing in the goodness in everyone.
Me jorkin it: 0:12
Same here 🔥🔥🔥
Lmao
Bro 😭
So true breastie
I'm jorkin it to your comment rn
And the worst part of it all?
You're secretly Ness EarthBound.
Cannon
Also Larice is with you for some reason. Don’t ask why he was a skeleton underneath the uniform.
@_0Error0_-vw3ww you'r rite, its cannon *bong bong*
Also you are steven universe somehow
@@k.e.8414steven after not surviving… 😢😢😭
I loved the ending so much, really felt dreadful once you realized what outcome had occured.
There's uh.... A non-zero chance it's outcome 1....
@@CocoanutVA there are none. Not yet, at least - anomaly at hand is Flowey, which is 4-th oitcome. It'll take some survival to get to the point of the player entering the scene too.
Pretty goated I'm ngl, this does mesh well though with another fairly compelling theory that papyrus is way stronger than he lets on, this might be why...
Paps is somewhat stronger than he shows, but that particular theory kind of pushes how strong he strong is (stronger than everyone basically. Like Sans, Undyne, Asgore, etc. And I think that is pushing things), and the theory itself is just kind of holes imo.
This also matches up with the Sans and Papyrus being from Deltarune theory.
It also "definitely" matches up with the sANS *IS NESS THEORY!!!*
@@Dragon_Aoi Yes and no, I think. Papyrus literally stops himself exactly 1 hp from killing you, and the only other one that has ever managed that has been Flowey who, mind, has had an indefinite amount of time to practice control.
Papyrus has not. Even Toriel, who theoretically might be very very long lived by this point, does not possess the control to not accidentally kill you.
Papyrus is pretty strong, but it takes more than brute force, and he has a different role to play...
@@mdbgamer556Papyrus also has gaster blasters, which can be gathered from dialogue on the date with him after an aborted geno route. “IM GLAD YOU STOPPED WHEN YOU DID, OTHERWISE YOU SURELY WOULD HAVE BEEN ‘BLASTED’…”
I just found you through this video, and after watching the rest of your undertale/deltarune videos let me say you are exactly the kind of theorist I've been waiting for in this community. The kind of theorist that looks at the generally agreed upon theories the community holds as true and questions them. The kind of theorist that looks at seemingly insignificant details that for years had been skipped over, but in actuality can be used as very compelling evidence for alternative theories to the previously mentioned widely held true ones. I genuinely cannot wait for your next videos, as you've been one of the few people to actually make me double take over how obvious some of the theories/evidence/inconsistencies you brought up are. Hope you get big! :D
I knew Papyrus was smarter than he let on, but I failed to consider the possibility that he was actually fully on the same page as Sans regarding all the anomoly stuff. I don't doubt that much of Papyrus was already genuinely leaning towards his role (I think that's part of why they chose the roles they did-, of what we can see of deltarune sans, he's basically as laid back as before, though slightly more active in running a store), but he definitely is flanderizing aspects of himself
This is an amazing deduction/theory!
I would like to throw out a few scenarios that you may have missed though, that werent adressed in the video. I'll number mine with decimals to differentiate from yours for the sake of clarity.
1.5: the anomaly is evil, but acts nice. the anomaly greets you and acts kindly, but only as a means to trick you and stab you in the back. Even if they truly are nice, they could eventually get bored or go mad (leading to any other scenario) and then use whatever information you gave them when they were nice to kill you, so even if they are nice, you'd still have to hide info in case they eventually use it agsinst you. Of course, this would only further encourage "the plan," but i thought it was worth noting.
2.5: the anomaly is nice, but acts aloof. It doesnt greet you, but only bc it doesnt feel the need to. It knows it will meet you in due time.
3.5: the anomaly is aloof. It doesnt greet you not out of malice, but because it simply doesnt care. Maybe you dont jave the means to kill it and it k ows that, so it just doesnt bother saying hi. Idk if this is what you meant by scenario #3, but i thought i'd mention it just in case
Of course, assuming either 2.5 or 3.5 would be dangerous, seeing as 3 is the alterantive, so it just kinda becomes redundant in the end. Kt seems there are only 2 real outcomes of "what will i do when i leave the chamber," and they are either a). The Plan™️, or b). Fight to the death immediately and probably die.
...there is also the horrible possibility that the anomaly, with infinite time to ponder, has also thought of this plan and is fully aware of your tactics, in which case, that second stronger anomaly is the only hope yet again
whats crazy is even if the anomaly is aware of your plan, there's nothing they can do to extract information outside of what person1 and person 2 has willingly divulged
Not seeing Papyrus in DR makes much more sense now
This is barely even a theory, its more just an accurate assessment of events.
*_and oh how funny it is to think that after all that effort to set things up like this, it was figured out anyways._*
That despite all this, you still have no way to stop them.
And what's worse is that Sans (and very importantly Asgore) DID stop them. For centuries maybe. Enough that they let time advance enough to allow themselves to be overtaken by the Eigth Human. The plan worked. Flawlessly. Heck, the biggest cause for abandoning No Mercy is killing Papyrus according to stats I pulled from Misaki's OST videos and youtubers. And it didn't matter.
@@gabrote42technically speaking this is false. Flowey has confirmed killed everyone to such an extent he got bored enough to let time continue he only had one thing left to do and couldn't because Asgore was paranoid enough to never show Flowey where the souls are.
@@joshuafrazier3904 exactly. Flowey basically won. He just couldn't get out, but that wasn't Sans' or Papyrus' doing (that we know of)
*Some Time Later*
You sit at the end of an empty hall, at the edge of the time bubble, contemplating your next move. To some extent, your plan worked. They identified the anomaly, and you were able to gather data on the world and its inhabitants. However, there is a problem. The anomaly has made its objective the extermination of every monster, and has found Them unnecessary to complete that objective. If the anomaly thought differently, if They had more time, maybe stopping it forever would be possible. But how do you give Them that time?
Luckily for you, there are a few things you know to be true. First, complete extermination is the anomaly's only objective. There are only four beings left alive in this space: two of them are in an isolated location, you are protecting them, and the anomaly is approaching your location. Its goal is obvious, and in the completion of that goal, the last steps it'll take are also obvious.
Second, despite a perfect understanding of the situation, the anomaly remains a human child with limited resources. It is restrained by the rules of a system you somewhat understand, and those rules are things you can exploit. It seems to take a second after starting a fight to collect itself, so maybe that second is related to its reset ability. What happens if you take that second away? Its fighting style relies on creating an opening to exploit, so while it would be pretty tiring to try and avoid every attack, maybe doing so would leave it in a position where it couldn't kill you. And finally, though you doubt it's a true weakness, the anomaly waits for its opponent to retaliate after every attack. You think this is a bluff designed to stay the hand of anyone who knows too much about it, but as a last resort if you've exhausted every other option, then... maybe you could try not fighting back. At that point, it would be your only option anyways.
WIth this in mind, a plan forms. You don't know how to stop the anomaly forever, but you think you know how to stop it now. So leverage that. Use these rules to keep it from killing you now, and imply that regardless of when the anomaly picks its fight, you would use those rules then, too. If you succeed, if you can convince it that you are an unstoppable force, then it would be forced to go back and spare Them. They would have more time, and then maybe They could find something that would turn your efforts here and now into results now and forever.
You hear the door at the end of the hall open. It confirms, at least, that you were right about one thing. You just hope everything the people of this world sacrificed their lives to show you is enough to make you right about a second.
Nice, i enjoyed reading this
Nicely done
this should be pinned with how well this is written as a continuation
@ true
the anomaly in question for the duration of the video is in fact flowey, NOT the player. The player is the 2nd, stronger anomaly, that comes to end the loop.
If we ever get confirmation of this hypothetical scenario
I want to state that we were here to witness the theory that predicts the most crazy plot twist of all fiction
Jaw dropping video. You earned my respect
FUCK YES MORE SOCK MUPPET
seriously the quality of the content you produce has never dwindled, from petscop times till now your vids are always engaging and full watchthroughs! great vid!
(oh yeah sidenote, i really really REALLY fucking miss petscop, just going on ur channel and scrolling through dozens of already watched vids of you being so fucking dedicated and devoted to figuring out that weird little webseries, jesus theres still nothing thats been like it since!)
Never? Seriously? Writing on the wall was a terrible theory
@@undertravelerCry about it
17:56 the oatmeal doesn't have actual eggs though, it has candy eggs that melt away & "hatch out" marshmellow dinosaurs.
⚠️Anomaly alert⚠️
⚠️Anomaly Alert⚠️
that was anomalous
We got him, boys
Found Flowey's alt account
This video is the reason i search around the internet for undertale videos, because this community sometimes manages to make really good videos, and i really love it when people talk about the existential aspects of undertale's meta.
This feels like a training video from the SCP Foundation
There's no Anti-memetics Division
Lmao
The poor mole rats...
@@thebluecactusstudiosmemory1483exactly hahaha
You're just as good as your first day on the job
This is a very lovely video to start the new year. I love how, while still being inherently undertale, this sci fi think piece can be understood without knowing anything about the game. Freaking Amazing!
This is why I feel like undertale has perfectly encapsulated what save states, save files, and whatever else in a meta way, it is a simple idea of just time being a straight line that can stop and go back and changed, everything has technically happened and yet you are at one point in time, you might started figuring out that you can go back, then you start gathering information and go back and test something new for the joy of it, but then when you already did it, whats the point of doing it if you know what happens
This, this right here is what I think flowy is such a interesting character, because you can be the polar opposite of him on one route/timeline, but when you on a murder all timeline, you start to see that he is doing what you are and are nearly the same as he is, just at different positions of power in the timeline
so reading the comments, this is apparently an undertale thing? Which, wow, thx YT. But this is even generally an amazing thought experiment and the kind of story building you did with building up the problem, the possible scenarios and what in the end the 1st and 2nd role are? Amazing! I was sitting at the edge of my seat the whole time.
I personally love everything related to time travel, but I only now realise that everything I've read on that topic is from the traveller's perspective, not someone who knows about them, since they control the information about themselves. Hearing this other perspective.... it's just amazing. Thank you :)
Read the description he's using more general approach to find a larger audience so don't feel bad about knowing nothing about undertale. But the game is 3 bucks and you might like it if you liked this vid😊
Three bucks?? I got it for 10...@@Happy_doggo
Just rewatched the video and I noticed that Flowey is RIGHT THERE AT THE END! Hidden in plain sight!
Probably the most terrifying discovery possible to make in this scenario is that the individual you identified as the anomaly isn't actually 'the' anomaly, but rather just trapped within it. Capable of controlling the resets to a limited extent, that limitation being that they can cause the resets to happen early but otherwise the resets always happen anyway at the same inevitable point in time. This individual carries their memories from one reset to the next, but that's it. They are just as much a prisoner inside this time loop as anyone else, and don't know any more than anyone else about what caused the loop to happen or how to stop it. Perhaps countless times they've tried different things, manipulating different variables that could satisfy whatever conditions are needed to allow time to continue beyond that point, but nothing works. The entity isn't evil, it's desperate, or beyond that has developed a nihilistic worldview. Making friends comes as easily as ending life because no matter what they try to escape the loop, reset is inevitable and it all returns to zero. And now, you're stuck in here with them too, neither one of you knowing what to do to escape and only them carrying memories between resets which prevents them from leaning on you as a true friend. After all, when time reaches that certain point, you won't remember them anymore anyway.
I don’t get why people keep saying this. Frisk and “the player” are not separate. You are frisk, frisk is the anomaly, not “the player”.
@@shady8045 Aside from the fact that both the video and my original comment are tackling this concept from the perspective of this not being a video game and so no "player" is involved, you just contradicted yourself by saying that Frisk and the player are not separate and yet Frisk is not the player.
Regardless, Frisk is not the anomaly, Frisk is simply the entity within the anomaly least affected by it and with the largest degree of control over it. Ultimately the time loop itself is the anomaly and even Frisk is powerless to prevent it from happening beyond a certain point.
Possibly ff1 psp did this. Garland having the ability to return to the past when he got killed is just a part of a bigger anomaly. You'll then given option to endlessly fight this higher anomaly which is a time itself, Chronodia. It's possible that Chronodia is beyond Gardland's time loop ability.
This kinda sounds like the plot of Groundhog day but with a secret agent character who tries to investigate Phil or something lol
Siffrin from In Stars and Time be like:
Im gonna watch this video a second time just to be sure i understood everything
I love the idea of this being the training and preparation that officers of the timeline monitoring organization need to go through before every job, like they analyze all known timelines as much as possible to try and get an idea of what it is the anomaly may be trying to accomplish and guide them through it so that they feel fulfilled and do not return. This is of course with exception to the situations in which the anomaly’s actions lead to the outright destruction of the universe, which they have to do everything in their power to prevent.
The most planned plan someone can make for a impossible task.
I am in shock. I was always curious and thought of HOW Sans could have possibly been able to know all of this, know WHEN to act, I always thought he'd be alone. But thinking of Papyrus as their accomplice playing as a persona makes everything just make so much more sense.
Wow, this is incredible, and I kind of want it to be true because of how genius it is. The only issue I have comes from Lost Soul Papryus during the Asriel Pacifist fight. In this state, Papyrus, like the other monsters, don't have much awareness of what's going on. Their inner insecurities/worries come out until they remember that Frisk already helped them move past these problems. If this theory was accurate, wouldn't Papyrus reveal himself to really be upset about having to live a fake life in order to find the Anomaly? Instead, he talks about needing to capture a human.
Sure, we can say that the Lost Souls are only missing their memories and their awareness of the situation, so Papyrus could simply be acting how he usually would, however, given that Sans says, "just give up. i did," something that he wouldn't otherwise say to anyone, I believe that it's more than just a memory/awareness issue. As shown by Sans, the Lost Souls show us everyone's flaws, even from characters that typically hide them. In this case, wouldn't Papyrus give up the act? Or is the mission so ingrained into his conscience that, even as a lost soul, he's unwilling to give himself up? Or am I being silly?
Regardless, this theory is amazing and makes Undertale so much deeper/complex than it already was. Well done.
this sort of breaks the narrative of papyrus being an actor. but at the same time i also dont think papyrus is a true actor anyway, since there are many factors that say he couldnt be otherwise (like the lost soul dialogue you said).
i believe that we just dont know enough about papyrus in general. we know shockingly little about him, less than sans, because we just have to assume that all he shows us is the entirety of him.
Obviously, you can explain away why the lost souls say what they say.
after looking at the dialogue under this theory, papyrus truly couldve had his memories wiped, replaced, or locked away. sans says "you'll never see em again." of course he could be referring to anyone, but if you suspend your disbelief, he may be talking about his own brother???
I only say that because, i mean, papyrus is weirder than his brother in some aspects. He breaks many rules like sans, yet seems even more normal. what i find more than anything to be out of place, is the fact they come together, the brothers. it implys that they should share more than what they do, but in game they seem night and day.
Basically, there is no way in my mind that papyrus, in all of his quirkiness and whatnot, is really this simple. he is the simplest main character in the game. like in the video, he is naive to a fault when, realistically, he has no reason to be considering his surroundings and his own brother.
Also, who could play a character like papyrus? could you truly act this way and NEVER slip once? it would be easier to fabricate the memories.
OR, papyrus isn't an actor because maybe, he doesnt need to. we know he has seen grass (gets cut off by sans), but doesnt know what the sun is. we know he was a shut in in deltarune, so whats to say he is just living a better life in undertale? this would mean sans knowingly lets him die, but i guess it won't matter if the anomaly will reset anyway?
either way, i think the theory as a base is 100% accurate in the sense of explaining the brothers existence in the game, but just needs some rearrangement (so like 80% true).
there is a lot to say, too much for here.
given how "lost souls" are showing the worst parts of them, papyrus reverting back to his initial state might actually be what he loathes the most, he HAS to play a part, he DOESNT get to be himself, instead he must make a fool of himself 24/7, so its reflected in the the lost soul part
The thing with Papyrus's "Lost Soul" dialogue is that he falters pretty quickly. He says that he must capture a human but goes silent midway through explaining why. That part always struck weird to me because all the other monsters seem pretty direct when falling back into their old destructive mindset, while Papyrus still seems hesitant. Is it that his own issue is that he doesn't actually know what he wants? Does he still feel the need to hide his insecurities even as a lost soul? "Then everyone will..." Will what? This piece of dialogue makes it sound like either he doesn't know what he wants himself or the entire thing was a ruse that he feels the need to keep up. Personally, I think it leans more towards to the former but Papyrus's ambiguity even as a lost soul can be taken in so many different ways
@yamsyyyy I read the other lost soul dialogue, some of the others do the ellipse pause as well, idk.
@noobhoot06 yeah, I know, Toriel and Asgore. My emphasis wasn't on the ellipses itself but the cut off at the end of the sentence. Toriel and Asgore both convey what they think they must do, with the pause signifying doubt/reluctance on their behalf. Papyrus's pause feels more ambiguous then that, although I think it represents confusion more than anything
Always loved the concept of someone being a professional in talking down beings not only stronger than them but completely above comprehension. Basically having to play by the god's rules in order to subjugate it as a mortal. Like, an immortal is easy, find a way to trap it or make it not immortal and you've won. This is something else entirely.
Though, I guess you could argue it's impossible to lose in this case? You only need to win once. Presuming the time traveller is destined to repeat the same loop to infinity, you're bound to succeed one of these loops. Specifically you succeed on the "first" one you experience.
Yeah i also like this, could make for some cool series. Reminds me a bit of Dr. Who
Anyways about the "you can't lose"
That's not necessarilly true. They don't know anything about the anomaly... what if it's a literal god? What if it knows everything about you no matter what? What if it can eliminate you the very moment the appear into it's world and does that for every reset? What if it's literally invincible?
But for the context of what actually happens in Undertale, then you're kinda right. They just didn't know it before coming into the anomaly's world (if this theory, or part of it, is right)
I TEARED UP almost every time "You really wish he wasn't there with you" was said.
LIKE, WHEN I REALIZED ALL THIS "SECOND PERSON" BUSINESS I TWARED UP BECAUSE HOW PAINFUL IT MUST BE. Both for Sans to see terrible things happening to Papyrus and Papyrus realizing through what he must go
I'm so sad and interested of that concept in your head
I really like how it shows snippets of both of the brothers’ personality.
the way papyrus (seemingly) knocks away the coin and takes the “hard job”… sick. sick and twisted. this video is so good
@@_pyxeled FUCK NOOOOO
like imagine if he tricked Sans to get the hard job either way
Loop: FINALLY the video I~ need
Siffrin: please spare me
The ISaT fans found the Time travel video!
It's over now!
>:)
YEEEEES
loop is playing all parts of this plan as a single person really.
[You got a Memory of Genocides!]
(You will always remember this.)
[With this eqipped, you'll be able to glean important information from the local denizen's facial expressions and conduct!]
[You could have done this already, but since you don't remember last week, isn't it easier to have it explained to you in plain text? Tee-hee-hee!]
Human… i remember youre genocides
IN STARS AND TIME MENTIONED RAGHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!
Yesss YESS
This is deeply funny because it means the Sans and Papyrus of my Undertale world were incredibly confused when the entity just got the Pacifist route and let that play out, never touching the game again.
or are just stuck in a void after the game closes
@ either way, hilariously ironic.
I'm picturing them just doing their thing thinking a reset is going to happen and then it just never comes lmao
"SANS IT'S BEEN YEARS I THINK IT'S OVER"
"...huh"
Acron is a real-time-stratgy game with time travel, where you constantly give orders to units in the past, so everyone can unto a lot of things by giving back orders further in the past than the mistake. 2 buildings teleport trough space or time, and some units can do some limited time travel without those (3 very different factions)
It proposes a smart solution to the grandfather-paradox, by basically using modulo-arithmetic back ti "the first moment in time" so the long term outcome of any time travel paradox depends on "timing", and it ceases to be paradoxical, its just messy and harder to predict what happens, when a unit destroys the factory, that it was build in, before that unit was build there.
it is wild, and it mostly suffers from being too nice and from bad audio and some limits to visuals and game-play, in favor of handling all the time travel stuff.
There's also the time travel Chess game that sounds pretty similar to this "Acron"
Also, thanks for introducing me to it. I will check this game out!
Btw, guys. The game is called "Achron"
"Acron" is some other game about squirrels 😂
@@jestfullgremblim8002 i have two sides: interdimensional strategy game - s q u i r r e l
The only way for person 1 and 2 to defeat the anomaly is for the anomaly to suspend its disbelief (become immersed in the world) in its own powers.
To suck them in, so to speak.
like a dark world?
gaming addiction real
@@litterbox019 ok bro who asked
@@TheSkyGuy77 Fool
@@Fuel6233
Takes a fool to know one 😂
excellent video, i always suspected that papyrus foolishness is utterly suspicious.
specialy afetr deltarun "egg man", wich correlates to papyrus romance scene with the egg
The scariest part about this video is we, the anomaly, are continuing our investigation of these two to this day. Otherwise, this video wouldn’t exist. When future deltarune chapters come out, we’ll all dive right back in to keep up this game between us and these other anomalies
The video is about Flowey
I've honestly never played Undertale, but if I were the time traveler in control of a time loop, this would work on me. After all, half the fun of a time loop is surprising people with knowledge you shouldn't know about. You probably wouldn't need more than like 3 loops to figure out where I put my time machine and turn it off.
Hahahaha fr!!
Btw, this probably doesn't interest you, but i do want to say that in Undertale, the "anomaly" doesn't really use a time machine and probably doesn't really undertand the whole thing itself. So yeah, it's a pretty tough situation for those who wish to stop the time resets
@@jestfullgremblim8002 The Anomaly the video is referring to is Flowey, The player is a second anomaly that arrives some time afterwards. The video references the player with the bit about a second anomaly to save them from the first.
people forget a lot of the time (or just never realized) that "the anomaly" sans refers to is flowey. you could buy undertale for the first time, do geno immediately, never reload a save once, and sans will still talk about the anomaly- this isn't a plot hole toby figured nobody would ever fall into, its that asriel was revived some time before the 8th human fell and has been messing around with resets for seemingly years.
this theory posits that sans arrived in undertales world after asriel was reborn as flowey, but considering the deja-vu some characters feel after most runs (not sans' body language expertise), its likely that timeline shenanigans have some sort of tangible effect on the world, and sans' reports may be based on that instead of outside observation. asgore seemingly being aware of resets (you can tell asgore that hes killed you before, and he nods sadly in response) adds credence to this, since from sans' words there were multiple people working on the research, and if this research took place in undertale (more on that below) its likely asgore oversaw it. (though maybe one of the fallen humans told him? so its not concrete.)
all that said, when sans accuses you of being the anomaly, while he's factually wrong, he might as well be right. as the player, with previous runs considered (and undyne the undying for good measure), youve likely reloaded saves dozens of times by now. and just as flowey said right before the sans fight, youve done what floweys done, by treating the world as a game to be explored.
i really don't think papyrus is in on it though. i personally think that deltarune sans arrives from undertale, in a timeline where the player gets true pacifist, but proves to sans that theyre a time traveller first. if sans, as a monster, enters the surface with the knowledge that frisk can freely manipulate time, i don't think that he's gonna let his life be at the anomalys whim any more. sans says in his fight that "getting to the surface doesnt appeal to [him] anymore" since he figures itll be ripped away. usually he's right on the money, but i think that actually arriving on the surface would curb his nihilism enough for him to do something about it, hence his fixing his machine and taking a trip to deltarune. did he take papyrus with him? big maybe. hed have no idea if the place he was headed was safe or not, so maybe not at first. maybe thats why we havent seen papyrus yet...
but now that he's aware of time travelling humans, you bet he's gonna prepare to meet one- making his house and local business look the exact same as places in the underground (grillbys being " 'sans ", christmas lights on his house despite it being fall), finding the place in this new world that parallels the original, just in case another one shows up... which makes his calm reaction to "its nice to see you again" feel pretty chilling. sure, the last time-manipulating human he met was nice, but finding out that travelling to a whole other world didnt spare you from being at a time travellers mercy has gotta be horrifying. not to mention this world has an equally bad (if not worse) worst case scenario with the roaring. assuming having a face thats locked into a permanent smile (only ever slightly faltering when being mortally wounded) helps him with the poker face.
sans' comment in chapter 2's ending about how it "may take a couple years" is probably just a meta joke about the games release schedule (susie has a similar line, but i dont think sans researches time irregularities with a delinquent high schooler. or maybe she does and clam girl is in on it... and clam girl seems to be a gaster follower... gaster confirmed? kidding of course.) but maybe its sans researching deltarunes timeline after meeting kris and seeing chapter 1 restart for about 3 years in this messed up groundhogs day, even worse than in undertale, but with chapter 2 the groundhogs day extends into a groundhogs weekend, and thats where the joke comes from? maybe susie saying that is the deja vu effect? does sans know that the anomaly this time is gaster???
i have no real thoughts on papyrus deltarune. is he the knight? did he come from undertale? is he a shadow on the wall of a cave? we don't know and i wouldn't be shocked if we never know, even after deltarune is fully out. im only expecting a packet of dried dino egg oatmeal to be a healing item if theres ever a sans shop dark world.