You are very sharp I can completely take down and trouble shoot any rifle or shotgun. Especially military rifles. I served thirty years in the United States Army twelve in the Ranger Regiment. So it was my business to know. I have a good deal of milsurp rifles all in good to very good condition. I purchased in the early to mid eighties. My point is you have mastered this type of firearm. It's a pleasure to watch videos.
Thanks so much coming from someone that has served. I have a lot yet to learn from folks such as yourself and also the school of hard knocks. I'll bet you are glad you got the weapons then. Enjoy them as no doubt others are envious. O.R.
This was an extremely informative video. The presentation was also excellent - time efficient without rambling, irrelevant tangents, or glossing over relevant things. Thank you.
Thanks Michael, always appreciate hearing that the information was well received. Speaking to basically only the camera isn’t easy for me, but I try to “stay on target “. O.R.
A very erudite explanation of the working of the single action Colt, I have found that the major problem with modern reproduction percussion guns is that the main spring is way too soft, an original Colt 1860 I have has a hammer draw weight of 12 lbs, whereas a repro is usually circa 4 lbs, this causes the hammer to blow back on ignition and drop the spent cap into the action. The other thing that can cause problems in the original design is the hand spring, this can easily break causing problems, Uberti have completely overcome this in there SAA by having a coil spring and plunger system which pushes the hand forward, it is unlikely that this will fail as frequently as the small leaf spring, although that, if properly hardened and tempered should last 100 years! Many thanks for posting this! Chris B.
Thanks Chris. I have seen this on the SAA Uberti and maybe some others. Excellent for the gun, but one would think if in the Percussion, the small spring and plunger would rust up or possibly get lost during a good cleaning. Seems I have had less problems with this hand spring then in the past, maybe things are improving in the metal treatment. Thanks for the view. O.R.
Yes, the originals are very stiff. Too stiff maybe. It does wear out the trigger and hammer full cock ledge faster. But it does prevent blowby. However proper nipples with smaller flash holes definitely improve the blowback situation.
I have an Uberti SSA that I bought in 1973 and subsequently had a broken hand spring. It was near impossible to get repair parts in the 70s and they wanted me to return the gun to have a new hand fitted so I made a replacement spring from a piece of seatbelt retract spring and it is still working some 50 years later. Also it has a slightly modified Colt bolt/trigger spring.
Yes, if it were to be replaced with the new part there’s a chance that the part would be needed to be fitted. Replacing just the spring as you did solved the problem. 👍😁. O.R.
Thank you for the video. Great information. I have my cap and ball revolvers out inspecting them as you went thru it. I do have one that the bolt is coming up early and sure enough, the hand has wear.
Glad you found the video interesting. Don’t remembered saying much about what the results are with wear on the hand, but you nailed one for sure. It’s interesting that as parts wear, the timing gets messed with, but they continue to work (usually) until some spring gives up the ghost. O.R.
I have an extra bolt and hand and extra springs for my 1850. Although the bolt and hand show wear I have not needed to replace them yet. These are simple designs, with some leeway for wear built in - they can wear quite a bit and they will still work just fine, although the feel of how they cock will begin to change. You can buy a piano wire bolt/trigger spring replacement that I have read will never break, but I have had good luck with the original flat spring (I don't fan the weapon - which apparently can break springs). Price check before you buy spares - and figure in shipping. Some stores really put it to you for shipping. There is one store that is only about 1/3-1/4 of the total price of the others. RUclips rules prevent my naming the cheaper store, which is named after an animal that bites iirc.
This is just what I needed to learn. I just bought an 1893 Colt 45 that sat in a desk for 100 years. It's not working properly and I need to learn how to fix it. Thank you for teaching me. Can I buy the spring kit?
Thanks for the comment and congrats on your find. No replacement spring kits that I know of for those first generation colts. Issue is that the springs are attached to other parts like the bolt or the hand. Even the simplest one does two jobs, trigger and bolt tension. Original parts that contain the springs are expensive and may or may not be “drop in” because the part they are attached to effects timing. The spring on the hand can usually be replaced. The bolt has an arm that is sort of a spring because it has to be kept against the hammer so the hammer cam can activate the bolt to release and engage the bolt in the cylinder notches. I’m curious about the gun’s symptoms. Good luck with the project 👍. O.R.
Quick question on my 1873 Saa revolver the problem I am having is when I slow cock the hammer it does just fine into the 1st notch and 2nd half cock notch of hammer, but when I get closer to the full notch the hammer binds and does not fully lock out into the full cock notch position into the hammer. Also when I cock the hammer hard and fast then everything works just fine and everything locks into position with no problems. Any troubleshooting ideas would be greatly appreciated? I'm thinking it is either the pawl or the sear not fully engaging into the full cock hammer notch when I pull the hammer slowly down. If I don't here from you soon then I do have the Colt Saa gun manual to refer to the troubleshooting pages in order to figure it out. Hope to hear from you soon and GOD Bless and great video by the way.
Once the bolt gets out of its home in a cylinder notch, (which is working), the hand’s job is to rotate the cylinder by engaging the whatever we’ll call the he things on the cylinder end. During a fast cocking, the initial cylinder momentum can keep ahead of what the hand needs to do,during a slow cock where the full job relies on the hand and the notches (some wear here makes it it job harder I would assume). These single actions will of course wear out parts, but by far the springs are major weak points. That spring on the hand is necessary to keep the hand pushing in the right place. A busted one will not usually allow any cylinder rotation, a weak or slightly broken one “could” cause something like you are describing. Of course I could and probably are dead wrong, but at least part of my brain came up with something that sounds good on “paper” (boy have things changed in my lifetime). O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Thank you oldranger3044 for your great info and will put this information into use and eventually figure it out. Thank you sir and GOD Bless. 🙋
Finally figured out the problem a few weeks ago and took the 1873 colt saa fully apart and come to find out on the section of the base of hammer where the roller bearing is located that glides back and forth on the hammer main spring. The pin that holds in that bearing was barely sticking out about .02" thousands. So I took it to the bench vise with leather in place and knocked the pin in flush. Lapped it with 1,000 grit emery cloth, polished it with rubber tip and felt bob tip with green polishing compound. Then hit it with some oil and wiped it down real clean and reinstalled. From there now it works like a charm. It pays to check every nick and cranny of gun to see where the problem is at. 😁 Now the action has no more binding problems and the action is sweet and smooth as honey. 😃
@@fuzzie567 Thats great, thanks for the update. Possibly it was catching on something not allowing full motion during slow cocking, wouldn’t have guessed that. Anyway, satisfaction is figuring out what is wrong, and being able to fix it. O.R.
Hoping you can stir me in right direction. I have an Uberti 1873 cattlemen that was made in 1973. Uberti went through a retooling in the early 2000's. The bolt they now sell is smaller and shorter arms on it. The bolt i currently have is wornout. The one arm is paper thin and no longer rides the cam o. The trigger. I have tried Numric and VTI. Do you know anyone that still has or can even make or modify a bolt that will fit this pistol. Thank You. Gabe.
Boy, that’s an interesting one. I have a Uberti that was made in the 60’s, so I’m going to have a look inside too compare bolts with the current production. If this happens to slip my mind, hit me with another comment. Dixie Gun Works has been in business for more years than I care to think about, might try them. I’m planning to check my Uberti. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 can send you pictures of the one the pistol currently has and Uberti new style next to each other even caliber measurements just cant figure out on here how to send. If you do want to see send me an Email i can send to. Thanks for you interest and help.
@@garygabrielle1056 I took a couple of my Uberti’s apart and found little difference. Then, I re-read your post and realized I was”digging “ in the wrong place. You have SAA’s, and when I see Uberti, my mind jumps to black powder stuff. I was starting to think something didn’t make sense, and now I get it. So, I don’t have an older Uberti SAA, but checked the bolt in a newer one and compared to a colt SAA it has shorter arms by about 50 thousand. The colt .010 narrower and.040 longer ( .020 each direction). The colt and the black powder Uberti are very close. The hole on them is a little small for the screw pin. I think there might be a good chance that either could be made to work. Getting the hole right might be a challenge, but so is life. Hope this gives you some info. O.R.
What brought me here is on my Pietta 1851 Navy: I've narrowed it down to the hammer cam/bolt relationship. I go to cock the gun and it's locked. I relax the hammer and pull again and it cocks. If I fire the subsequent cocking action works no locking. I suspect I need to shorten the caming surface of the bolt arm? The cam is very pronounced; the bolt arm still has the 45* angle. I figure through use it will smooth out? I could use candle black to determine wear. Open to suggestions. Excellent video. Pax Christi.
Hi. I have a video that discusses what I think you are describing. Not sure if you have seen this one. I called it Colt Black Powder Revolvers, and here is the link. ruclips.net/video/LSoeY8k9S5g/видео.html Maybe you can take a look and get back to me with what you think after watching. O.R.
No. This vid only tried to cover the internal workings. None on fitting wedges, but I believe some others do. I'll make a note that a short video on what I know could be useful to some folks. Thanks. O.R.
Thanks for this video. A friend has a 1996 colt saa and its quite stiff to pull back the hammer. The previous owner said its due to only being shot 10 times. Any ideas?
I wouldn’t take much stock in the “only shot ten times” (which is probably true) as the reason. That could be the case if the cylinder turns hard when loading due to a very tight fit on the arbor (pin going through the cylinder). The main spring that drives the hammer is notorious for being overly strong. If loosening the screw that secures it to the trigger guard (use a screwdriver that fits because they are usually tight) lightens the pull, then this is probably the reason. Some folks put leather between the guard and spring. Others grind the spring on the sides, keeping the taper the same shape. A good option is google SAA spring kit. Wolf gun springs probably a good choice. Just my thoughts from what you have described. O.R.
@@markim9728 Not those. The back of the grip by the hammer are two. They are recessed slightly into the blackstrap. There is also one at the bottom of the grip. With those three removed the strap (and grip if one piece wood). If the grip(s) are two pieces then the first thing is to remove screw that holds them. And then the other three. With the back strap removed there’s a screw towards the bottom of the trigger guard that holds the mainspring. That’s the target. Checking internet for parts diagrams could help. O.R.
One thing I have a question about is, why a new hammer in these kits? I haven’t heard of a hammer getting worn out or breaking? And asking others they have said the same.
@@KyleTheDalek I’ll have to make a guess on this one. Possibly reasons: They include all parts that can wear, or break. It is basically everything but the screws. The hammer will probably never break like the springs, but here’s what can happen. The cam can wear because of the bolt arm contacting it. That can result in a couple of uncomfortable situations. There are two notches on the underside. One for half cock, one for full. Those also can wear, and the half cock one can break which makes stuff like loading-unloading (SAA) really a pain. Some folks grind or file on the hammer sight notch (colts), and a new owner might not care for the adjustment. Those are first things that come to mind. O.R.
I have an 1851 clone that, if I pull the hammer back slowly, as far as it will go, the cylinder does not quite rotate far enough to index on the bolt. If I do it quickly so it builds momentum, the inertia will carry it the last little bit so it indexes. Is this a symptom of a short or worn hand?
Also worth noting that the spring part of my bolt looks a bit worn, and someone's replaced the bolt/trigger spring with what looks like a bent paperclip. I'm not sure if I should be mad or impressed that *that* actually works.
@@WafflePlaneRC To the rotation issue, I’m voting for the hand being short (or worn). Would be interesting to listen to when the bolt slips off the cam and hits the cylinder. If before the lead in groves, that would be a sigh that the bolt spring (or cam) have excessive wear. If that paper clip thing was just a needed replacement for a busted bolt-trigger spring, that’s one thing, and wouldn’t affect your issue. On the other hand (no pun), it could be a sign that someone was playing around, possibly trying to get the “perfect timing” by modifying critical parts; that could explain the short hand. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I can't actually hear the bolt click until it reaches the big groove and fully seats. The lead in grooves are VERY shallow on this one, as it's not a modern clone, it's an 1860s one made when the colt revolver patent first expired. I can tell you it is letting the bolt up about halfway between the half cock and full cock positions of the hammer. If I hold the hammer by hand at that point I can make the cylinder lock by rotating it the final amount by hand. With the way the hand is currently timed this is well before the lead in grooves would be. I did have some issue with the bolt slipping off its lug on the hammer entirely and locking the thing up at half cock, but this has almost completely gone away after ever so slightly tweaking the two legs on the end of the bolt outward to increase the pressure against the hammer.
@@WafflePlaneRC Interesting. Sure sounds like several things going on. Without a bag of new parts, or a divorced buddy machinist with extra time, I’m thinking no silver bullet of a restore. Sounds like you have a good deal of experience with this type of gun, but sometimes “stuff” gets hard to fix even then. Hope things work out. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 this is actually my first pre 1900 gun of any kind, but I like to think myself fairly mechanically inclined. Still debating if this one's just going to be a wall hanger though, like you said I think it needs more than one new part to really be workable
@@kfloyd6310 Couple, there is a spring that puts pressure on the trigger so that part of the trigger (called the sear) engages into the hammer full cock position. If weak or broken, the sear may not be able to engage far enough to remain cocked. Of course be sure that it is not loaded when checking things out. Working the trigger with the hammer down against the frame might tell if there is tension on it. Keeping the trigger forced in the opposite direction (towards the barrel) when cocking should put the trigger sear in the full cock notch. If it doesn’t stay put, then it probably isn’t the spring. Second thing would be a worn sear or incorrect angle that will not “stay put”. The full cock notch in the hammer can also be warn, incorrect angle, or not deep enough. One question is whether this situation developed suddenly, or has it been just getting worse with time. Hopefully this gives you some ideas. As always, be careful. O.R.
@@Studentofgosset There are a couple of springs (not counting the main hammer spring) that can break or crack. The hammer spring is the least likely to go and you will know about that. One of the other two is located on the hand and its job is to keep the hand against the ratchets on the cylinder to rotate the cylinder when the gun is cocked. Without that one would need to rotate it by hand (reason for the name?), so if that one goes typically the cylinder will not rotate or completely rotate when cocking. The other one is under the cylinder (bottom of gun) and actually is a double spring called the trigger or bolt spring because it operates both and one or the other of this spring can break. The trigger will no longer have tension on it and not return forward on its own if that side of the spring breaks. If the other side gives up the ghost, the cylinder will not “lock up”, or will easily come unlocked if it’s weak or only cracked. Hope this helps. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 that does help, I was wondering if a failure for the trigger to return (reset) could lead to accidental "fanning" when it was next cocked. thank!
@@Studentofgosset If that trigger does not engage into the sear notch of the hammer, releasing the hammer could have that effect because it could be just like holding holding it back, except that it could randomly flop into the sear notched preventing the hammer fall. O.R.
Hi ! I have an urgent question. I have a 1975 anniversary Ruger 22/22mag single action with the transfer bar safety. When the gun is assembled the hammer will not cock back. When I take out the pin and cylinder out it will cock back. What in your professional opinion may be the issue ?
@@tyrranicalt-rad6164 It’s pretty hard to pinpoint exactly what is going on, but the bolt for whatever reason is probably not going down when the hammer is pulled back. When the cylinder is out, and you cock the gun, does that bolt (protruding upward in the bottom of frame) lower back into the frame, and if so, how far does the hammer move before the it starts moving? O.R.
Hello. My problem isn't a broken part, best I can tell because the gun is brand new. I just received a pietta alchimista 2 Colt 45 and the trigger pull is so hard that there's an audible clunk/snap when it finally releases at what feels to be upwards of about 15 pounds. Can you tell me what would cause this? Thank you.
@oldranger3044 Actually, no, best I can tell it's staying stationary then after a ton of trigger pressure and a loud SNAP, the hammer will fall. If I put my thumb on the hammer and just release the slightest amount of pressure whilst pressing the trigger, the hammer will fall easily.
@@MichaelEgan66 ok thanks. Another question, in cocked position, how much can the hammer move to the rear, like further cocking the gun? It’s too bad about all the hassle to return firearms with shipping, because the situation you’re describing sure needs attention from the company (supplier). I believe it’s fixable, but not just a minor “break in period”. O.R.
@oldranger3044 I'd say maybe an eighth to 3/16 "over-travel" type movement to the rear. If I pull the hammer all the way back, it'll slide forward about an eighth to 3/16ths until it locks into the full cock notch.
as far as the hand spring breaking. there is another option. it involves drilling a hole from the back into the hand channel in the exact points the spring would engage the hand. then you drop in a pin with a spring and wha-bam, back in business :D
If you have a Uberti, then replacement parts are more expensive than Pietta in the event that the wrong part is modified and messed up. Just something to be aware of. A normal hand length should rotate the cylinder slightly past the point where the bolt locks the cylinder. If it becomes too short then only the momentum of the rotating cylinder will move the cylinder far enough for the bolt to lock it. I am suspicious that the bolt is not being released quick enough by the arm of the bolt that rides the cam of the hammer. Shortening that would cause the bolt to come up quicker and lock the cylinder. Too short and the bolt will not unlock the cylinder when cocking for the next shot. Try rotating slow and listen to see when the bolt snaps up to lock the cylinder. Also, if the bolt is a little thick (wide) it might not be able to fit deep enough into the cylinder notches. If I was betting, I would say shortening the hand would not solve it because it is the bolt going into the cylinder that stops the cylinder from over rotation, not because the hand can’t push it further. Hopefully this helps and that you get it operating. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I apologize I put that the wrong way, the timing of the gun is spot on, however when the cylinder is locked up the chamber is misaligned with the barrel in the over rotation direction with the bolt fully engaged. The alignment of the chamber is off by a very concerning amount, I have always shot colts and this is my first Remington but I have never had a mid alignment this bad on a colt. If it will help I could post a video to my channel showing how far off the alignment is. I took the gun apart and only installed the bolt and the cylinder and with me hand locking it up it’s still way off, I think the cylinder might be badly cut from the factory
@@funkmonkeyfun Thanks for the update. That’s interesting. I just checked 4 of mine, and two had similar issues only they were locked a bit short from what I could tell. I just checked with a 3/8 dowel that had a sharp cut off, and it would hang up when riding the barrel side when it arrived at the cylinder. How much misalignment is difficult to say. Even with the forcing cone it can’t help accuracy. I have an older 51 Pietta (36) that has the same issue. I put in another cylinder and it didn’t change. I believe the slot in the frame is off. Now I’m curious about shooting my 58’s that have the issue and comparing with the ones that don’t (it’s an accuracy thing). Be interested to know what you find out. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 as much as mine is misaligned I’m definitely concerned I’m gonna crack the frame, I have a dowel rod I used to check my 44s and it won’t enter the cylinder at all so I believe I threw $329 in the trash because I don’t wana start dumping tons of money into cylinders and possibly a new frame. This is the first Pietta I have ever had a problem with so I guess I’m lucky in that regard, I shot Pietta a email with pictures but I doubt I will ever hear back from them. I may shoot it just to see what happens but I do believe it’s gonna be trash.
@@funkmonkeyfun Well that’s bad news. I’m pretty sure that a 2-3 thousand under bore size won’t go down mine either. I’ve no idea how much they can tolerate, but my 51 has survived so far. I took the cylinder out of the gun that seems to be aligned and when in my non aligned gun, it was still not in line making me think it is where the slot is cut in the frame, so a new cylinder wouldn’t fix mine. Now what you COULD do is average your loss. 😀. You buy another one and if you’re lucky you now have an average loss of $164.50 per gun, verses your current $329. 😎. O.R.
I’m thinking there is a broken or cracked spring. That would be called a bolt spring, but it actually is two springs in one. One side puts pressure on the bolt and usually if it’s bolt side breaks the cylinder will not stay locked. If the other side fails, it will not push the sear (end of the trigger) into the full cock notch in the hammer. When the gun points down, the weight of the trigger can rotate its sear against the hammer, acting like the spring does, and engage the notch. Just a uneducated guess. O.R.
You are very sharp I can completely take down and trouble shoot any rifle or shotgun. Especially military rifles. I served thirty years in the United States Army twelve in the Ranger Regiment. So it was my business to know. I have a good deal of milsurp rifles all in good to very good condition. I purchased in the early to mid eighties. My point is you have mastered this type of firearm. It's a pleasure to watch videos.
Thanks so much coming from someone that has served. I have a lot yet to learn from folks such as yourself and also the school of hard knocks. I'll bet you are glad you got the weapons then. Enjoy them as no doubt others are envious. O.R.
This was an extremely informative video. The presentation was also excellent - time efficient without rambling, irrelevant tangents, or glossing over relevant things.
Thank you.
Thanks Michael, always appreciate hearing that the information was well received. Speaking to basically only the camera isn’t easy for me, but I try to “stay on target “. O.R.
A very erudite explanation of the working of the single action Colt, I have found that the major problem with modern reproduction percussion guns is that the main spring is way too soft, an original Colt 1860 I have has a hammer draw weight of 12 lbs, whereas a repro is usually circa 4 lbs, this causes the hammer to blow back on ignition and drop the spent cap into the action. The other thing that can cause problems in the original design is the hand spring, this can easily break causing problems, Uberti have completely overcome this in there SAA by having a coil spring and plunger system which pushes the hand forward, it is unlikely that this will fail as frequently as the small leaf spring, although that, if properly hardened and tempered should last 100 years! Many thanks for posting this! Chris B.
Thanks Chris. I have seen this on the SAA Uberti and maybe some others. Excellent for the gun, but one would think if in the Percussion, the small spring and plunger would rust up or possibly get lost during a good cleaning. Seems I have had less problems with this hand spring then in the past, maybe things are improving in the metal treatment. Thanks for the view. O.R.
Yes, the originals are very stiff. Too stiff maybe. It does wear out the trigger and hammer full cock ledge faster. But it does prevent blowby. However proper nipples with smaller flash holes definitely improve the blowback situation.
I have used carberator return spring in multiple type single action repairs trigger return, cyl stop with out fall.
Great idea and information. O.R.
Absolute gold , thanks for sharing , these are great easy to follow videos , cheers big ears from down under
I have an Uberti SSA that I bought in 1973 and subsequently had a broken hand spring. It was near impossible to get repair parts in the 70s and they wanted me to return the gun to have a new hand fitted so I made a replacement spring from a piece of seatbelt retract spring and it is still working some 50 years later. Also it has a slightly modified Colt bolt/trigger spring.
Yes, if it were to be replaced with the new part there’s a chance that the part would be needed to be fitted. Replacing just the spring as you did solved the problem. 👍😁. O.R.
I love you buddy!!! Bolt spring broke things were wonky with my 357 now she's all good and trust worthy again ❤ thanks a million boss!!!😊
@@showmofishinginc.5438 👍. Enjoy happy endings. O.R.
Thank you for the video. Great information. I have my cap and ball revolvers out inspecting them as you went thru it. I do have one that the bolt is coming up early and sure enough, the hand has wear.
Glad you found the video interesting. Don’t remembered saying much about what the results are with wear on the hand, but you nailed one for sure. It’s interesting that as parts wear, the timing gets messed with, but they continue to work (usually) until some spring gives up the ghost. O.R.
Have you had any exp. with 1870 open top, Uberti, mine is in for repair? Action is weird.
No experience with the open top. I believe the action should be identical to the 1860, so it should function the same. Again, this is my guess. O.R.
the hammer notches are in a different place, half cock is forward a full cock is farther back.
I needed this information 30 years ago when I owned Armi San Marco’s…
I have an extra bolt and hand and extra springs for my 1850. Although the bolt and hand show wear I have not needed to replace them yet. These are simple designs, with some leeway for wear built in - they can wear quite a bit and they will still work just fine, although the feel of how they cock will begin to change. You can buy a piano wire bolt/trigger spring replacement that I have read will never break, but I have had good luck with the original flat spring (I don't fan the weapon - which apparently can break springs).
Price check before you buy spares - and figure in shipping. Some stores really put it to you for shipping. There is one store that is only about 1/3-1/4 of the total price of the others. RUclips rules prevent my naming the cheaper store, which is named after an animal that bites iirc.
@@deandeann1541 Good information, thanks. O.R.
This is just what I needed to learn. I just bought an 1893 Colt 45 that sat in a desk for 100 years. It's not working properly and I need to learn how to fix it. Thank you for teaching me. Can I buy the spring kit?
Thanks for the comment and congrats on your find. No replacement spring kits that I know of for those first generation colts. Issue is that the springs are attached to other parts like the bolt or the hand. Even the simplest one does two jobs, trigger and bolt tension. Original parts that contain the springs are expensive and may or may not be “drop in” because the part they are attached to effects timing. The spring on the hand can usually be replaced. The bolt has an arm that is sort of a spring because it has to be kept against the hammer so the hammer cam can activate the bolt to release and engage the bolt in the cylinder notches. I’m curious about the gun’s symptoms. Good luck with the project 👍. O.R.
Quick question on my 1873 Saa revolver the problem I am having is when I slow cock the hammer it does just fine into the 1st notch and 2nd half cock notch of hammer, but when I get closer to the full notch the hammer binds and does not fully lock out into the full cock notch position into the hammer. Also when I cock the hammer hard and fast then everything works just fine and everything locks into position with no problems. Any troubleshooting ideas would be greatly appreciated? I'm thinking it is either the pawl or the sear not fully engaging into the full cock hammer notch when I pull the hammer slowly down. If I don't here from you soon then I do have the Colt Saa gun manual to refer to the troubleshooting pages in order to figure it out. Hope to hear from you soon and GOD Bless and great video by the way.
Once the bolt gets out of its home in a cylinder notch, (which is working), the hand’s job is to rotate the cylinder by engaging the whatever we’ll call the he things on the cylinder end. During a fast cocking, the initial cylinder momentum can keep ahead of what the hand needs to do,during a slow cock where the full job relies on the hand and the notches (some wear here makes it it job harder I would assume). These single actions will of course wear out parts, but by far the springs are major weak points. That spring on the hand is necessary to keep the hand pushing in the right place. A busted one will not usually allow any cylinder rotation, a weak or slightly broken one “could” cause something like you are describing. Of course I could and probably are dead wrong, but at least part of my brain came up with something that sounds good on “paper” (boy have things changed in my lifetime). O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Thank you oldranger3044 for your great info and will put this information into use and eventually figure it out. Thank you sir and GOD Bless. 🙋
Finally figured out the problem a few weeks ago and took the 1873 colt saa fully apart and come to find out on the section of the base of hammer where the roller bearing is located that glides back and forth on the hammer main spring. The pin that holds in that bearing was barely sticking out about .02" thousands. So I took it to the bench vise with leather in place and knocked the pin in flush. Lapped it with 1,000 grit emery cloth, polished it with rubber tip and felt bob tip with green polishing compound. Then hit it with some oil and wiped it down real clean and reinstalled. From there now it works like a charm. It pays to check every nick and cranny of gun to see where the problem is at. 😁 Now the action has no more binding problems and the action is sweet and smooth as honey. 😃
Meant .02" thousandths of an inch.
@@fuzzie567 Thats great, thanks for the update. Possibly it was catching on something not allowing full motion during slow cocking, wouldn’t have guessed that. Anyway, satisfaction is figuring out what is wrong, and being able to fix it. O.R.
Hoping you can stir me in right direction. I have an Uberti 1873 cattlemen that was made in 1973. Uberti went through a retooling in the early 2000's. The bolt they now sell is smaller and shorter arms on it. The bolt i currently have is wornout. The one arm is paper thin and no longer rides the cam o. The trigger. I have tried Numric and VTI. Do you know anyone that still has or can even make or modify a bolt that will fit this pistol. Thank You. Gabe.
Boy, that’s an interesting one. I have a Uberti that was made in the 60’s, so I’m going to have a look inside too compare bolts with the current production. If this happens to slip my mind, hit me with another comment. Dixie Gun Works has been in business for more years than I care to think about, might try them. I’m planning to check my Uberti. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 can send you pictures of the one the pistol currently has and Uberti new style next to each other even caliber measurements just cant figure out on here how to send. If you do want to see send me an Email i can send to. Thanks for you interest and help.
@@garygabrielle1056 Right, I don’t know how to exchange pics either. I’m going to check out mine. It surprises me that Uberti changed that.
@@garygabrielle1056 I took a couple of my Uberti’s apart and found little difference. Then, I re-read your post and realized I was”digging “ in the wrong place. You have SAA’s, and when I see Uberti, my mind jumps to black powder stuff. I was starting to think something didn’t make sense, and now I get it. So, I don’t have an older Uberti SAA, but checked the bolt in a newer one and compared to a colt SAA it has shorter arms by about 50 thousand. The colt .010 narrower and.040 longer ( .020 each direction). The colt and the black powder Uberti are very close. The hole on them is a little small for the screw pin. I think there might be a good chance that either could be made to work. Getting the hole right might be a challenge, but so is life. Hope this gives you some info. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 thank you.
Really enjoy the content. keep up the good work - Dave.
Thanks Dave. O.R.
Thy, I'm happy I came across with your channel.
@@henrysara7716 Thanks Henry. Hope you find something that helps and enjoy some of the information that others have provided in the comments. O.R.
What brought me here is on my Pietta 1851 Navy: I've narrowed it down to the hammer cam/bolt relationship. I go to cock the gun and it's locked. I relax the hammer and pull again and it cocks. If I fire the subsequent cocking action works no locking. I suspect I need to shorten the caming surface of the bolt arm? The cam is very pronounced; the bolt arm still has the 45* angle. I figure through use it will smooth out? I could use candle black to determine wear. Open to suggestions.
Excellent video.
Pax Christi.
Hi. I have a video that discusses what I think you are describing. Not sure if you have seen this one. I called it Colt Black Powder Revolvers, and here is the link. ruclips.net/video/LSoeY8k9S5g/видео.html Maybe you can take a look and get back to me with what you think after watching. O.R.
You didn't go over wedges? Do you have a video on fitting wedges?
No. This vid only tried to cover the internal workings. None on fitting wedges, but I believe some others do. I'll make a note that a short video on what I know could be useful to some folks. Thanks. O.R.
Thanks for this video. A friend has a 1996 colt saa and its quite stiff to pull back the hammer. The previous owner said its due to only being shot 10 times. Any ideas?
I wouldn’t take much stock in the “only shot ten times” (which is probably true) as the reason. That could be the case if the cylinder turns hard when loading due to a very tight fit on the arbor (pin going through the cylinder). The main spring that drives the hammer is notorious for being overly strong. If loosening the screw that secures it to the trigger guard (use a screwdriver that fits because they are usually tight) lightens the pull, then this is probably the reason. Some folks put leather between the guard and spring. Others grind the spring on the sides, keeping the taper the same shape. A good option is google SAA spring kit. Wolf gun springs probably a good choice. Just my thoughts from what you have described. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Thanks Old Ranger. Which screw is it that I should loosen? Is it one of the 3 on the side?
@@markim9728 Not those. The back of the grip by the hammer are two. They are recessed slightly into the blackstrap. There is also one at the bottom of the grip. With those three removed the strap (and grip if one piece wood). If the grip(s) are two pieces then the first thing is to remove screw that holds them. And then the other three. With the back strap removed there’s a screw towards the bottom of the trigger guard that holds the mainspring. That’s the target. Checking internet for parts diagrams could help. O.R.
Very informative,thanks for uploading OR.
Good thanks I need simple brake down on parts. This help me a lot saving this video 👍🏼
very good tutoriol. Thanks!!!
Very informative thanks !
One thing I have a question about is, why a new hammer in these kits?
I haven’t heard of a hammer getting worn out or breaking?
And asking others they have said the same.
@@KyleTheDalek I’ll have to make a guess on this one. Possibly reasons: They include all parts that can wear, or break. It is basically everything but the screws. The hammer will probably never break like the springs, but here’s what can happen. The cam can wear because of the bolt arm contacting it. That can result in a couple of uncomfortable situations. There are two notches on the underside. One for half cock, one for full. Those also can wear, and the half cock one can break which makes stuff like loading-unloading (SAA) really a pain. Some folks grind or file on the hammer sight notch (colts), and a new owner might not care for the adjustment. Those are first things that come to mind. O.R.
I have an 1851 clone that, if I pull the hammer back slowly, as far as it will go, the cylinder does not quite rotate far enough to index on the bolt. If I do it quickly so it builds momentum, the inertia will carry it the last little bit so it indexes. Is this a symptom of a short or worn hand?
Also worth noting that the spring part of my bolt looks a bit worn, and someone's replaced the bolt/trigger spring with what looks like a bent paperclip. I'm not sure if I should be mad or impressed that *that* actually works.
@@WafflePlaneRC To the rotation issue, I’m voting for the hand being short (or worn). Would be interesting to listen to when the bolt slips off the cam and hits the cylinder. If before the lead in groves, that would be a sigh that the bolt spring (or cam) have excessive wear. If that paper clip thing was just a needed replacement for a busted bolt-trigger spring, that’s one thing, and wouldn’t affect your issue. On the other hand (no pun), it could be a sign that someone was playing around, possibly trying to get the “perfect timing” by modifying critical parts; that could explain the short hand. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I can't actually hear the bolt click until it reaches the big groove and fully seats. The lead in grooves are VERY shallow on this one, as it's not a modern clone, it's an 1860s one made when the colt revolver patent first expired. I can tell you it is letting the bolt up about halfway between the half cock and full cock positions of the hammer. If I hold the hammer by hand at that point I can make the cylinder lock by rotating it the final amount by hand. With the way the hand is currently timed this is well before the lead in grooves would be.
I did have some issue with the bolt slipping off its lug on the hammer entirely and locking the thing up at half cock, but this has almost completely gone away after ever so slightly tweaking the two legs on the end of the bolt outward to increase the pressure against the hammer.
@@WafflePlaneRC Interesting. Sure sounds like several things going on. Without a bag of new parts, or a divorced buddy machinist with extra time, I’m thinking no silver bullet of a restore. Sounds like you have a good deal of experience with this type of gun, but sometimes “stuff” gets hard to fix even then. Hope things work out. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 this is actually my first pre 1900 gun of any kind, but I like to think myself fairly mechanically inclined. Still debating if this one's just going to be a wall hanger though, like you said I think it needs more than one new part to really be workable
My single action slips to half cocked. Any thoughts, J P saur &sohn hawes .357
@@kfloyd6310 Couple, there is a spring that puts pressure on the trigger so that part of the trigger (called the sear) engages into the hammer full cock position. If weak or broken, the sear may not be able to engage far enough to remain cocked. Of course be sure that it is not loaded when checking things out. Working the trigger with the hammer down against the frame might tell if there is tension on it. Keeping the trigger forced in the opposite direction (towards the barrel) when cocking should put the trigger sear in the full cock notch. If it doesn’t stay put, then it probably isn’t the spring. Second thing would be a worn sear or incorrect angle that will not “stay put”. The full cock notch in the hammer can also be warn, incorrect angle, or not deep enough. One question is whether this situation developed suddenly, or has it been just getting worse with time. Hopefully this gives you some ideas. As always, be careful. O.R.
What are the symptoms of a broken trigger (hand) spring?
@@Studentofgosset There are a couple of springs (not counting the main hammer spring) that can break or crack. The hammer spring is the least likely to go and you will know about that. One of the other two is located on the hand and its job is to keep the hand against the ratchets on the cylinder to rotate the cylinder when the gun is cocked. Without that one would need to rotate it by hand (reason for the name?), so if that one goes typically the cylinder will not rotate or completely rotate when cocking. The other one is under the cylinder (bottom of gun) and actually is a double spring called the trigger or bolt spring because it operates both and one or the other of this spring can break. The trigger will no longer have tension on it and not return forward on its own if that side of the spring breaks. If the other side gives up the ghost, the cylinder will not “lock up”, or will easily come unlocked if it’s weak or only cracked. Hope this helps. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 that does help, I was wondering if a failure for the trigger to return (reset) could lead to accidental "fanning" when it was next cocked. thank!
@@Studentofgosset If that trigger does not engage into the sear notch of the hammer, releasing the hammer could have that effect because it could be just like holding holding it back, except that it could randomly flop into the sear notched preventing the hammer fall. O.R.
Hi ! I have an urgent question. I have a 1975 anniversary Ruger 22/22mag single action with the transfer bar safety. When the gun is assembled the hammer will not cock back. When I take out the pin and cylinder out it will cock back. What in your professional opinion may be the issue ?
@@tyrranicalt-rad6164 It’s pretty hard to pinpoint exactly what is going on, but the bolt for whatever reason is probably not going down when the hammer is pulled back. When the cylinder is out, and you cock the gun, does that bolt (protruding upward in the bottom of frame) lower back into the frame, and if so, how far does the hammer move before the it starts moving? O.R.
Hello. My problem isn't a broken part, best I can tell because the gun is brand new. I just received a pietta alchimista 2 Colt 45 and the trigger pull is so hard that there's an audible clunk/snap when it finally releases at what feels to be upwards of about 15 pounds. Can you tell me what would cause this? Thank you.
@@MichaelEgan66 Start with watching the hammer as you pull the trigger to see if there is movement to the rear and get back after checking that. O.R.
@oldranger3044 Actually, no, best I can tell it's staying stationary then after a ton of trigger pressure and a loud SNAP, the hammer will fall. If I put my thumb on the hammer and just release the slightest amount of pressure whilst pressing the trigger, the hammer will fall easily.
@@MichaelEgan66 ok thanks. Another question, in cocked position, how much can the hammer move to the rear, like further cocking the gun? It’s too bad about all the hassle to return firearms with shipping, because the situation you’re describing sure needs attention from the company (supplier). I believe it’s fixable, but not just a minor “break in period”. O.R.
@oldranger3044 I'd say maybe an eighth to 3/16 "over-travel" type movement to the rear. If I pull the hammer all the way back, it'll slide forward about an eighth to 3/16ths until it locks into the full cock notch.
as far as the hand spring breaking. there is another option. it involves drilling a hole from the back into the hand channel in the exact points the spring would engage the hand. then you drop in a pin with a spring and wha-bam, back in business :D
Have seen that done on some of the SAA's, and that fix should work on the percussion guns.
This is a great vid. Thanks!
I have a new 1858 new army revolver, my cylinder is over rotating cause chamber misalignment, will shorting the hand fix that?
If you have a Uberti, then replacement parts are more expensive than Pietta in the event that the wrong part is modified and messed up. Just something to be aware of. A normal hand length should rotate the cylinder slightly past the point where the bolt locks the cylinder. If it becomes too short then only the momentum of the rotating cylinder will move the cylinder far enough for the bolt to lock it. I am suspicious that the bolt is not being released quick enough by the arm of the bolt that rides the cam of the hammer. Shortening that would cause the bolt to come up quicker and lock the cylinder. Too short and the bolt will not unlock the cylinder when cocking for the next shot. Try rotating slow and listen to see when the bolt snaps up to lock the cylinder. Also, if the bolt is a little thick (wide) it might not be able to fit deep enough into the cylinder notches. If I was betting, I would say shortening the hand would not solve it because it is the bolt going into the cylinder that stops the cylinder from over rotation, not because the hand can’t push it further. Hopefully this helps and that you get it operating. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I apologize I put that the wrong way, the timing of the gun is spot on, however when the cylinder is locked up the chamber is misaligned with the barrel in the over rotation direction with the bolt fully engaged.
The alignment of the chamber is off by a very concerning amount, I have always shot colts and this is my first Remington but I have never had a mid alignment this bad on a colt.
If it will help I could post a video to my channel showing how far off the alignment is. I took the gun apart and only installed the bolt and the cylinder and with me hand locking it up it’s still way off, I think the cylinder might be badly cut from the factory
@@funkmonkeyfun Thanks for the update. That’s interesting. I just checked 4 of mine, and two had similar issues only they were locked a bit short from what I could tell. I just checked with a 3/8 dowel that had a sharp cut off, and it would hang up when riding the barrel side when it arrived at the cylinder. How much misalignment is difficult to say. Even with the forcing cone it can’t help accuracy. I have an older 51 Pietta (36) that has the same issue. I put in another cylinder and it didn’t change. I believe the slot in the frame is off. Now I’m curious about shooting my 58’s that have the issue and comparing with the ones that don’t (it’s an accuracy thing). Be interested to know what you find out. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 as much as mine is misaligned I’m definitely concerned I’m gonna crack the frame, I have a dowel rod I used to check my 44s and it won’t enter the cylinder at all so I believe I threw $329 in the trash because I don’t wana start dumping tons of money into cylinders and possibly a new frame.
This is the first Pietta I have ever had a problem with so I guess I’m lucky in that regard, I shot Pietta a email with pictures but I doubt I will ever hear back from them.
I may shoot it just to see what happens but I do believe it’s gonna be trash.
@@funkmonkeyfun Well that’s bad news. I’m pretty sure that a 2-3 thousand under bore size won’t go down mine either. I’ve no idea how much they can tolerate, but my 51 has survived so far. I took the cylinder out of the gun that seems to be aligned and when in my non aligned gun, it was still not in line making me think it is where the slot is cut in the frame, so a new cylinder wouldn’t fix mine.
Now what you COULD do is average your loss. 😀. You buy another one and if you’re lucky you now have an average loss of $164.50 per gun, verses your current $329. 😎. O.R.
My colt Bisley hammer won’t lock back unless I’m pointing it up. Any help?
I’m sorry unless I’m pointing it down
Never mind I need a sear and bolt spring. Appreciate it
I’m thinking there is a broken or cracked spring. That would be called a bolt spring, but it actually is two springs in one. One side puts pressure on the bolt and usually if it’s bolt side breaks the cylinder will not stay locked. If the other side fails, it will not push the sear (end of the trigger) into the full cock notch in the hammer. When the gun points down, the weight of the trigger can rotate its sear against the hammer, acting like the spring does, and engage the notch. Just a uneducated guess. O.R.
Thanks, good info
Thank you very much.
👍
Nice video! Thanks.
Good show
Great video
Nice
I have a Great Western that needs some attention
Hello OR
Way to go
🤠🤠🤠🤠🤠