1860 and 1851 Pietta Part Kit - Is fitting necessary ?
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Putting new parts from the Pietta kit into an Pietta 1860 Army. Checking to see what parts work as is, and what may need to be modified. These parts can also be used in their 1851's and 1861's steel or brass frames. Kit is reasonably priced and contains the internal parts for most repairs.
I had an interesting project. I found an original civil war Remington NMA barrel, frame, hammer, pawl and bolt in an antique store here in western Montana for $45 bucks! I snatched it up, took it home and set about bringing it back to life. The only parts not warn out are the barrel and frame. Luckily I already had a Uberti NMA with a Howell conversion cylinder and an old brass frame Pietta NMA. I took the original Uberti percussion cylinder and bolt...and the Pietta loading lever, base pin, trigger guard, hammer and pawl. I ordered an og Rem trigger and screws. To make a very long story shorter...I had to fit all the Italian parts from two different makers to the gun and each other. Including pressing out the Pietta hammer cam...rotating it slightly and pressing it back in...guessing at the correct orientation. Which I luckily achieved on the first attempt! I had to alter the frame slightly to fit the loading lever, base pin and hammer. And fit the Uberti bolt to the Pietta hammer cam. The og Rem trigger fit fairly well to the hammer notches...all I had to do was clean up the sear end a bit for a crisp trigger pull. I matched the external parts by removing the blueing and allowing them to discolor on their own. In the end it all came together wonderfully...and is actually the tightest single action I own. Including several Uberti SAA's and an USFA SAA. It amazed me how with only a vice, a few needle files, some quality Arkansas stones, and of course the guiding hand of the Lord...I was able to bring the old girl back from the grave!
Great adventure. Along with the parts, you supplied more than a small amount of experience. I’m pretty envious. Not so much about the gun, more the fun in the restoration, and satisfaction of the result. Question: Can you tell if rifling is gain twist? Thanks for sharing. O.R.
With the help of your video I got my 1851 Colt Navy apart and figured out the hand spring was broken.😁 Now, when I get the part, we’ll see if I can get it back together.😳😂
Hi Doug. Pietta? If you run into a “situation” possibly I can try to give you some advice if you comment. Hope you get it back to functioning. Hand springs and the bolt-trigger springs seem to be the parts that give issues. One way to tell if the hand 🖐 you get is too long is that it will try to rotate the cylinder before the cam on the hammer pushes the bolt out of the cylinder notch. In short, the gun will not be able to be cocked. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 I don’t have many power tools. Will I be able to do the fitting I need (potentially) with a Dremel and sandpaper or will I need to “find a guy”?
@@dougdumbrill7234 In my opinion the dremel tool could do it. Either a grinding wheel (use the flat section) or the flat side of the dremel cutoff wheel, keeping the same angles. Also, compare what you are doing to the original. Look at it as a learning experience. It is the way. O.R.
I watched all of these smithing videos 3 times a piece. Very, good information sir.
Thanks, hopefully they were useful. O.R.
Useful tips, thanks for posting.
I wish I saw your video before having the same problems. I just kept the old hand, and used the dremel for the trigger.
Great video, very informative. Thank you so much.👌🤠👍
Great video, not much I can add other than. It is sad with today's technology that a parts kit's are not more consistent and precise, however that being said replacement parts in modern revolvers require adjustments for a precise fit and timing. Some brands are more complicated than others and have gunsmiths who are specialist in just that mechanism.
Yes, the good news was that nothing was too short, and that the hammer needed nothing changed. Cam location and size on hammer seemed perfect. Anyone with Pietta guns might want to consider the kit because of the tendency for the bolt spring to break, and also can replace hammer back to original if there has been some grinding to get the gun shooting closer to point of aim. Thanks for viewing and commenting. O.R.
Excellent video, and I am really surprised how little work was required to fit these new parts, I drill holes in a 3/8" steel plate corresponding to the holes in the action, that way I find it is much easier to fit the trigger/hammer group out on the bench with the correct sear angles, those parts look like they are lost wax castings, did you find them hardened right through, or case hardened ? Chris B.
Chris, I tried a file after some grinding on the trigger (not sear end), and the file still just slid. The bolt was well polished and has pretty robust arms and didn't need any work, arm seemed to be the right length and worked well with the cam. The sear seems long enough to give the hammer a further back lock up, which helps it not to shoot as high. The extra length of the hand is a positive thing because it can be shortened. Hammer worked well also. I am thinking that the light trigger pull may have been that some extra should have been taken off the back side of the sear because maybe it isn't able to get fully into the hammer notch, which also might explain almost zero creep. If not, get out the jigs and stones. Not exactly a drop in for all parts, but as you say, sure could have been a lot more work necessary. Thanks for checking it out. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 That bolt looked very well finished, that is why I wondered if they were lost wax castings, they come off the sprue and just get tumbled, which gives them that smooth finish, I am sure you are right on the sear engagement, it sounds like the back of the sear is touching the breast of the hammer, that is why I like to make up a simple jig by drilling the hole positions in a 3/8" plate, you can then see what is happening, when it is inside the frame you cannot see anything, so unless you smoke up the trigger you have no idea what is touching what, but it works well as you have got it set up! Stay safe ! Chris B.
Thank U man.
Hello ranger, i need some help. Im working on a pietta 1851 navy. I have the timing adjusted perfect on my gun. The problem is when i pull the trigger and the hammer falls, sometimes the bolt will partially pop out of the cylinder notch, causing the cylinder to advance slightly after the hammer falls. Do you have any ideas what is causing this ? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Love your channel ! 😊
I had a similar (maybe the same) issue with a conversion cylinder install. As the hammer falls, the leg of the bolt needs to slide over the cam. If this doesn't happen, then when the hammer falls, sort of the reverse thing happens, and the
bolt goes back into the situation where it is allowing the cylinder to rotate again, like it does when the gun is being cocked. I can't say how you should handle it of course because, but there are a couple things I did. I don't remember the exact video I did on the issue I had with installing the conversion cylinder, but I showed in that video what I did. I have done it a couple ways, one was to be sure the cam was sloped all the way to the base and there was no ridge at the bottom that the bolt leg could catch on. The other was to but a bevel on the part of the leg that needs to slide over the cam. Look at the video if you can find it, and you can get back to me. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 ok, i will have a look at that video. Thanks again, love your channel and keep those videos coming. Happy Shooting !
Hello ranger, i have a question and need your expert advice. Recently i purchased a CVA 1860 Army 44. I think it was originaly sold as a kit gun. I need to replace the bolt & trigger/bolt spring. Do you know who manufactured these pistols ? Will pietta or uberti parts fit my gun ? Thanks for any help you can give me.
I’m probably not going to be lots of help in this arena. From what I’ve read, they were probably made by Armi San Marco or possibly Pietta. If the nipples are metric thread. Then Pietta is likely. ASM should be English thread. Other possible manufacturers were EIG or Armi San Polo. If it was ASM, then Uberti should fit, or be very close. Pietta probably needs.1 inch ground off the trigger side. Be careful not too remove too much or get it too hot when grinding. The hole in pietta is a bit larger which is ok. I see midway has the Uberti part for about $10. That might be a reasonable spot to start. If the trigger side is too short, then the Pietta. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Wow, thanks for all the information. Im really getting into shooting these old black powder guns. It's theraputic for me. You have the best channel on yt for black powder guns & how to stuff. I absolutely love your channel. Please keep all the great videos coming. Peace and best wishes to you, ranger. 👍
@@HHS6272 Your welcome, and thanks for your encouragement and interest in getting into these firearms. There’s just something about them; sort of like a samurai sword, or the Jedi light saber. A weapon from a more civilized time (or at least a less complex one). Do the homework as you are, be careful, and expect some complications at times. O.R.
Please do a video on the hammer cam. A know Pietta problem. Thanks.
Hi Steve. Could you give me a little more detail about what might help so I can try to point it in the right direction. I think a video about the cam by itself is a good idea. Thanks. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 you are FANTASTIC! A major problem with Piettas after 50 rounds is the bolt leg slips too early off the hammer cam. This raises the bolt during 1/2 cock … locking the cylinder. Crappy hammer cam! The only fox is a new hammer.
It would be so cool to compare a bad hammer cam to a good hammer cam and alert everyone to a very common occurrence.
@@steveferris663 Thanks Steve. Made a note, and have a good selection of Piettas to check this out So far, the lock ups I’ve seen are caused when the hammer doesn’t go far enough forward for the bolt arm to drop off the cam, and then it can’t raise the bolt out of the cylinder notches when the hammer tries to draw back. O.R.
Kia Ora from NZ.
I have a original 1860 army colt.
Can a pieta hand spring fit my gun ?
Tatou ( thanks) in advance
Chris
It’s likely not to fit as is, the arm that rides the trigger will probably need to be shortened some, but otherwise there’s a good chance. I just can’t say for sure not having done it. A Uberti spring should be really close “as is”, but if a considerable cost or availability difference, go Pietta. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Morena OR
Kia Ora tatou .
Really appreciate your help.
Ma te wa
( have a wonderful day)
I'm having trouble with the new bolt. It seems to be binding and not locking the cylinder- it will move slightly when then gun is at full cock. (I already ground the trigger and reused the old hand)
Wish I could be helpful here, but would hate to make a wrong call. Be sure the bolt is not too large for the notches by checking it when bolt and cylinder are out of the gun. I think I also remember this can happen with a weak or fractured bolt spring. When you said you can move the cylinder, is that in order to get it into lock, or does it move out of the locked position. Sorry I can’t be of more help. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 Thanks for you reply. Here's the back story. I believe I have a 1851 Navy. On the barrel it says Navy Arms CO, Ridgefield, NJ. On the side it says made in italy. I'm thinking it was made by Pietta. When I received it, it was missing the trigger, bolt (and those screws) and the associated spring was broken. I bought the kit from EMF and replaced all those parts. I had to gring down the trigger. While everything "fits" it really didn't function without a lot of "help" wiggiling etc. So I put the original (to me) hammer and pusher back in and it almost works. I get 2 clicks, the cylinder is in the correct positions, but ib the firing position the cyber is not well locked. A little twist will rotate fast the firing position. The bolt seems to move very little, you cannot really move it against the spring and it's not in the center of the hole but further to the back. Any help or reference would be much appreciated.
@@kenrodenhouse2337 Shooting in the dark, I’d say that it may not be pietta. Army San Polo, Army San Marco, probably a couple more were making replicas. That definitely is a project gun, but these things aren’t rocket science so they pretty much can be made usable. With things apart, check to see how the bolt comes up into the slot in the frame. Just use the screw that goes through the bolt. The Pietta may be too long, short or wide. It sure sounds like it can’t come up far enough, and again check how it fits in the cylinder slots (when both are out), and keep at it (consider it a learning experience). O.R.
My hammer cam was getting grinded by the the bolt, so I ordered a new hammer, and it was still getting grinded, so I filed the bevel a bit on the bolt leg that rides over the cam. Not sure if it’s making a different though. Any ideas?
Curious if the problem is on the bevel surface or along the side of the cam? The arm of the bolt should have a bevel so it can slide up the bevel of the cam. Possibly if there is a grove being cut along the side or edge of the cam, there might be a sharp point at the end of the bolt arm that need to be rounded and polished. Be cautious with this because too short and the bolt will come up sooner than desired. That’s about all I can think of at the moment. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 thank you very much for advice. I will try this out
@@oldranger3044 something else I forgot to say, was that because the bolt had been grinding so much on the cam, the cylinder is not able to spin freely on half cock, and on the first click of the hammer pull, if I let my finger off the hammer, it will just go back down onto about halfway of the next nipple. This problem was resolved with the new hammer, but the grinding still occurred. So I think I’m gonna try what you said, and smooth the bolt leg out a little bit so it’s not so sharp
@@hewettp9210 I found one gun with a grove cut in the cam. Never knew why. Just suspected that the cam was soft, which it may have been. From what you’ve described, I’m suspicious that the arm on mine could have been not rounded. That arm, because it is a spring, should be harder than plain steel, and without both being hardened, one will wear away faster. It’s only speculation but probably because of competition and shoots like Cowboy Action, ours may see more mileage than most of the originals. O.R.
@@oldranger3044 that’s interesting. I just sanded off some metal from the leg that rides over the cam. It seems that it has made the hammer pull a bit lighter. I sanded just the pointy tip of it, not the beveled side this time. I can let you know more what happens
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Stuff like that is my luck every time. Then I take it to a gun smith an they just smile an take my money 💰 😳👍🏼
there is no such thing as a "drop in" part they all take some fitting.
"All" covers quite a bit. I'd rather that it be said that anything ADVERTISED as a "drop in", may, or probably will need some work. These parts I recall are advertised as replacement parts. Many will need fitting as you say. But, I have had some drop that function as the original, and some have actually improve trigger pull. But, we certainly cannot count on that. Thanks as always for your comments. O.R.