Holley Terminator X - Create a NA SBF Base Timing Map Similar to Stock Foxbody A9L
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 25 ноя 2020
- The base map provided in the Holley Terminator X software for a naturally aspirated SBF leaves a lot to be desired.
In this video, we review idle, part throttle, and wide open throttle timing numbers used in a factory Ford Mass Air 5.0 A9L calibration. Then we do our best to create a timing map in the Holley software that replicates these settings. This should result in much better off idle response, safer peak timing to use initially until your fuel is dialed in, and a more stable idle.
If you find these videos helpful, feel free to support the cause by sharing this video or donating a few "beer money" dollars to us at www.paypal.com/paypalme/thele... 
Авто/Мото
Thank you for posting this video. I can't believe the driveability difference versus the stock table on the Holley on a SBF. It is night and day.
Awesome. Glad it helped. Be on the lookout for the upcoming collab work with Brew2L. We are going to cover some more topics as we work out the tune on his turbo car.
Thanks for the excellent videos. Keep em coming.
Great video, thanks for making it so relatable and understandable.
Thanks so much for posting these vids man. I have a 66 mustang with a 91Ho and a terminator x. It’s was sluggish and had idling issues. I mimicked what you did in this video and it really made a big difference. My shift points are much better and car is a lot more responsive. Thanks again.
Loving the information in your videos, looking forward to supercharged version, I'm building a 331 Windsor Jr heads (64cc) and a V2 supercharger, already have my Terminator X new in box waiting for everything else to be delivered
Great vid. I learned a lot on it. Thank you.
Thanks for posting. I'm looking forward to finding you video on AFR table's on a NA SBF 302.
I will definitely take this video and compare it to my timing table. I have stock motor TB to oil pan. It has shorty headers, electric fan, and manual rack. Went 1.70, 8.599 @ 79.
Awsome video thanks alot 🙏🏽
This is great info! I'm looking to get the Terminator X this Springfor my 89 Mustang! This is a big help! Happy Thanksgiving!!
Trying to get an Term X now and can't find any, lol!
We do have a customer right now that has a brand new unit for sale. Full terminator x foxbody kit with 3 bar map sensor and can-usb cable. He has a friend that may buy it, but if they don’t, he has the unit ready to go.
Great video. definitely keep them coming . cant wait to see a supercharged version of this . Happy Thanksgiving brotha!
Yeah man. I really think that video will help people better control things under boost.
Thanks Matt . I'm sure there is a lot of people that appreciate your videos that dont tell you . I dont know how in depth your gonna go with this but would like to know how to use the data logger and how to tune from that . If you can show how in good detail start to finish for the beginners like me lol. Thanks again
That is a great topic. I would like to start by doing a video that teaches how to use fuel correction and learn percentages and recalculate the base fuel map. Too often I see people just leave things in learn mode forever and hope the system will just figure everything out. But it actually isn’t very hard to get a little bit of data then make some reasonably accurate guesses to adjust areas of the table you have not currently driven within. Reading data logs is also the key to dialing in startup enrichment and several other things. Definitely will share some ideas on log reading in the near future. Thanks so much for your continued support!
Thank you sir for helping us. I live some place where they isn't a tuning shop for 500kms so you helping me, is saving me a 5 hour trip! Been very frustrated with getting my car to idle and its getting better following your direction.
That’s great to hear. Let me know if you need any direct assistance.
@@LeechMotorsports I am ready and willing work to with you anytime you are ready. Let me know what you need from me and I will do it.
@@badassforever1 email me cody@leechmotorsports.com
Great videos keep them up
Thanks so much!
Thank you. I will be Terminator xed soon. Trying to learn as much about the system as I can now because I have zero tuning experience and don't want to catastrophe.
One thing Ill say is that what I learned from this system is it needs alot of refinement for the Ford guys...I cant believe that they offer multiple ways to hook up an ignition system to a 302/351w Ford engine yet they dont include stock Ford CTS and MAT in their dropdowns because of copyrighting or trademarking from what I hear on the gravevine seeings finding A GM to Ford interface pigtail for either is nowhere to be seen anywhere because Ford didnt give Holley license to do so let alone even the ability to sell the plug needed to do so and from what Ive been seeing is the 2 wire PWM connector for the IAC on the 550-937f kit needs to be programmed to work correctly. Im glad I went with the 4 wire GM stepper style with Accufab IAC adapter but I still had to reverse two wires as the plug is wired for the Chrysler 4 pin type which makes ZERO sense yet noone offers an IAC adapter that works with the Chrysler style 2 screw 4 pin IAC as a PNP without having to modify the IAC mounts on the Chrysler 4 wire stepper IAC to work with the Accufab unit..
Awesome!!
All this makes me appreciate my old school Anderson Ford PMS. I have it basically setup to run off the A9L with a few tweaks. It’s a dart 347 with AFR 220 heads, custom cam etc..... I only tweaked some load timing and fuel and WOT fuel and timing. I purposefully have it idle at 1,000 due to the cam which makes peak power at 6,600.so I shift at 7k. I play it safe with 29 degrees of timing on 100 octane and 32 on MS 103. I could add more timing but I decided to leave 20 hp on the table. Yes I picked up 20hp at 34 degrees but I run high 10’s @126 N/A and 20 hp would add what maybe a hundredth of a mph.
Tuning is just a tip of the iceberg....I was where you were...Stuck with antiquated troublesome electronics old harnesses with crappy connectors that break easily from age and chip burners...
Im damn glad I didnt go with the Edelbrock ProFlow4:-Thats for sure....LOL
I have heard a lot of amazing things about you, i watched the one vid when you were at the brew2L garage i am new to holley efi and was wondering if you had a vid or close to a turbo charged 351w base 408 stroker just need a starting point thx for your time
Catching up on all these vids Matt now I'm back somewhere with decent internet. Great info again on this! Any chance you saved that file with the timing in it, just as a base file?
Well mr leech.
Once again you have blown me away with your knowledge of the systems. When time comes to swap this 351 into my mustang I’m gonna be calling you. My first question is what heads should I be saving for? I’m gonna do a base rebuild on the bottom end. I want 9.5 to 1 for compression and also I want forged pistons. It may see a turbo in a few years but big question mark. Na for now with a 150 shot no2. I have the f250 351 block. It will be a roller. So also what cam? Get back to me please and I will try not to get on your nerves. Lol. Happy turkey day
Lots of good cylinder heads out there. The Trickflow high ports are fantastic, but you have to have a number of other parts specifically for those heads. For an easy bolt on, you could to the trickflow 11r 190 or 11r 205. But you’ll likely want to do pistons specifically for them. On the AFR side, a 185 is the smallest I would go. But the 205 with a 72cc chamber would keep your compression low and flow very well. You planning to stay with hydraulic roller?
@@LeechMotorsports
Defiantly go hydraulic roller. My reason for that particular 351. I know you have to match your cam with the head flow. I am looking at some of the heads like nkb and pro comp. I am on a fixed income. Ya know shoe string. Anyway. I will save a bit longer if it’s that much of a better outcome. Hope you’re having a good thanksgiving!
Thanks for sharing this, where does one find the download for the mapping you did?
Any idea why the dip in timing to 3500 RPM? Peak torque on a stock cam 5.0 HO is around 3200 RPM. I wonder if that is a safe way to achieve MBT. Also "all in" timing isn't until 5000, which on a stock 5.0 would be around where you should be shifting. Feels like there is a lot more "left on the table" under 5000 by ramping more total timing in earlier. Assuming this is tuned for 87 with E7 heads, MBT is around 30 BTDC. Say 7 deg of safety margin, that's right at 23, which almost makes sense for this map.
I'm in the process of fine tuning my timing map on an A9L after HCI. Cam is pretty aggressive (Anderson N-41) and peak TQ has moved up the power band. I put on a small chamber TFS 11R head and running around 10.5:1 compression on a stock bottom end. Base fuel is now 91 with this combo, and just carefully adding a couple degrees in the WOT table, but mainly focusing on light load/low RPM to cancel out some nasty surging under 2000 RPM. Experimenting with pulling timing has helped a ton, but I don't have the blend perfect between the base timing and the other tables. Car sits at 5200 ft elevation, so I want to keep the built in logic for high altitude timing effects.
Keep up the great work, I really enjoy the videos.
Nice videos. Just got the terminator X V2 installed and have it idling. I have watched your other videos and made those changes.
My setup is as follows. Stock 302 block, afr 165 heads, x303 cam and performer rpm II intake.
My question is will this timing map work for me to drive around on until I can get it professionally tuned?
The map that comes in the V2 system is not anywhere close to yours in this video. Just don’t want to cause harm to my motor right out of the box.
Hard to say how well it will work without additional tuning. But if you are already planning to have it professionally tuned, we should chat about our remote tuning services. We could get you setup with a custom base tune right away. Then work with you through the tuning process. Most likely saving you a bucket of cash when compared to what most “dyno tunes” will run you. And the result will likely be better. Street tune FTW! If interested send your contact info to me at matt@leechmotorsports.com and I can give you a call.
Awesome video. I have a question. Will this map work for a 347 with 10.24:1 compression? I mapped it like this to start but I’m getting detonation. Should I lower all the values?
hello there! love the videos. just installed the holley term x in my 88 gt. fairly mild na setup. ive taken a lot of your advice and used most of your tuning parameters and have gotten great results. still have not driven due to the fact its on jack stands. waiting on suspension parts. so my question.....I have an electric fan that run independently from the holley and when it kicks on the car surges wildly then stalls out. what can I do with the tune to compensate?
What you need to do is similar to what Ford had out of the box on the fox body computers. When the a/c kicks on, the computer will get a signal telling it that such has occurred and it will open the idle air valve more, slightly raise the idle rpms, and alter the perceived “load” on the engine. You would need to have a wire tapped into the fan wiring that will signal the Holley and be used as a trigger.
@@LeechMotorsports yea ok, kinda figured there would be some wiring involved. didn't know if there was a way to tune based of voltage. trying to tune on my own. want to learn how to make the car behave exactly how I want. Thank you for the timely response! happily subscribed!
Great Video! Will you do a SBF NA with Auto Transmission?
We can keep it in mind on the list of future videos also feel free to reach out to us via email, we try our best to answer questions. We also offer both base tune and complete tuning services. For Holley EFI.
I would definitely be interested in getting a down load and I’m about to do a Holley on my bone stock t5 n/a car
Hey man, please email me your phone number at matt@leechmotorsports.com . I would like to work with you directly on making the perfect bone stock 5.0 tune for use by other users. I had a perfect car lined up for this project, but it fell through.
@@LeechMotorsports did you ever get help with this? My car is a basic bolt on and if you need help I am very free to work with you and help.
When do you think you'll be rolling out your target AF video? Interested in making some tweaks to mine and hearing some of your thoughts about the strategy.
Made it this morning. Just have to do the edit and upload. Coming soon.
Would I be correct to assume that these timing values would be that of an A9L with the factory 10 deg initial? If so, some, or all of the timing values would actually be +4 deg if you had your initial timing at 14deg?
You are correct. All timing values are based around stock 10 degree distributor base timing.
I like the video how does this info transfer to small block chevy
I would imagine it would be a decent starting point. That said, I have never tuned or owned a chevy. Lol. The theory should still be sound in sbc land, but the specific numbers may have to be shifted around some… which technically is going to be the case anyways. No car is the same and really these numbers are only here to simulate specifically what ford did from the factory. I haven’t been into any factory chevy tuning strategies to see what they were doing on their stuff.
Hello! i have a 92 fox with a mild sn95 5.0 swapped in it...trying to learn to modify the base terminator x can tune for better start up and rampdown to idle, is this timing table available for download somewhere?? im not sure what levels are considered "safe" throughout the range so im a little hesitant to make changes...also dont want to sacrifice power, Realy enjoy the videos THANK YOU!!
I see your running 26 degrees max at WOT. If running Aluminum heads around 10:1 compression could that be changed to like 32 @ WOT and use an offset increase of 2 degrees everywhere else but at idle.
As mentioned, this is really just an approximation of ford’s factory fox body timing. I definitely suspect that you will want to lift the WOT timing numbers significantly. But every combo is different. Always inch up on timing a degree at a time. As for the rest of the table, I would be hesitant to just make a blanket change of X degrees. These combos that make more torque overall may experience a lot of touchiness in the throttle during low kpa cruising tip in/out of there is too much timing. That area of the tune is largely about personal preference and feel. Some people like to barely touch the throttle and shred the tires. Other people like a nice smooth transition that reduces on/off throttle “clunking”. I prefer the latter.
I’d be happy to work with you to build a timing map more appropriate for your specific combination. Feel free to email me at matt@leechmotorsports.com with your contact info and some additional information about your combo
@@LeechMotorsports thanks for the reply and the offer to help. I get that some people have different driving styles I'm probably more on the smoother is better side. I can definitely shoot you a global file and a log at some point.
Этот эбу подходит для bmw на моторе m57?
How much are remote tunes from leech if I get the terminator X? I have a 306 with edlerbrock performer heads with Trickflow intake and have a on3 turbo kit on the way. It’s on back order and said 8 weeks unfortunately.
I’m trying to get all my stuff ready for when it dose come. I’d like to get my car tuned by y’all. I’m in Tennessee so can’t bring the car obviously.
Shoot an email to cody@leechmotorsports.com and he will take care of you,
@@LeechMotorsports Thank You!
Can you help with timing/ fuel table on a turbo 5.4l mod motor?
Probably not much. I can look at the borderline spark tables in the stock strategies to give you a ballpark idea of what that looked like. But mod motors are something we have very little time working worth.
Would you still recommend this timing table when using a msd digital 6al box?
Yes, I always prefer the efi system control timing rather than standalone electronics.
I apoligize if this seems like a dumb question...but, would these values work fairly well on a Mega/Microsquirt? (to the best of your knowledge)
Timing numbers would be comparable for a similar combo across the two pieces of software. But on the fuel side, you need to start fresh on the Ms side.
@@LeechMotorsports Thank you! I understand adjusting the fuel table, but my grasp of the ignition table is a little more foreign to me.
@@williamkettrey206 kpa and rpm are universal across platforms as long as the sensors providing you data can be trusted. Let me know if you’d like me to help you setup a base map in your ms system based on your combo.
U mentioned this ignition table being available for download, where can I get it please
I admittedly got lazy on that one. Haven’t formally made a downloadable version of it. I am actually in the middle of making a revised version of this based on some of my more recent observations of the Holley efi system’s decel and idle characteristics. I’ve come up with some ways to drastically improve throttle response and under speed stall prevention without negatively affecting idle quality.
Will you post another video with the new info?
Great video I just installed my terminator x and my stang is acting up, as cts hits 200⁰f. The rpms rise to arround 2500, TPS is at 1% IAC is arround 65% if I'm driving it starts rising rpms to about 2500 and same if its a hot start, I noticed it only does it a 200⁰+ any help on figuring this out guys pls.
There are a number of things that could cause that to happen. You may need to reduce your iac hold position and/or rpms above idle to start ramp. If the rpms are high and the iac duty cycle does not come down, you have to get to the bottom of why it won’t drop the iac. Usually tps not returning to 0% is what will cause issues. Or if you’ve tried the 1D advanced table method of iac control, this can easily occur
Tnks for the reply! I lowered the iac hold position while it was revving high and did lowered it so its a matter of playing with those numbers tnks!! By the way driving arround for this year is almost over for me and would like to enjoy it while I can, so my question is how much would a tune cost its a 306 hci
@@victorsalomon3305 send an email to matt@leechmotorsports.com with some info about your build, time frame for tuning, and what you want to gain out of it. Include your phone number also so I can give you a call to discuss.
Can i hire you to help me with my timing table on my foxbody with a 347 and single turbo. That's really the only thing I need help with. I want to be safe all the time and I just haven't learned out to do that with boost yet.
Do you have a video on A/F? You havent posted in a couple years.
Hey is there a file I can just copy it and load it instead of manually going in and doing all these adjustments. I was half way done until my laptop took a dump
I actually haven’t saved any of those files. But we will be working on a series of base tunes for different setups over the next 30 days, one of which will be for a stock engine setup.
@@LeechMotorsports thanks man, I’ll be waiting.
Were can we find or purchase this base tune?
You can’t. These videos are for educational purposes. Best bet is to really watch and rewatch the video as needed and recreate these settings or something conceptually like them. This is all just a starting point anyway.
Will you do a Terminator X video for acceleration enrichment?
I can definitely make that happen. I need a good data log to use though. Do you have a copy of your tune and a log where you have different rates of opening the throttle quickly to get into heavy acceleration? If so, send them to me at matt@leechmotorsports.com and I’ll make a video for you.
@@LeechMotorsports thx I'll check and see if I already have one.
@@LeechMotorsports Sent you an email!
Hey man. Please email your phone number to me at matt@leechmotorsports.com. I’d like to chat about your issues.
Just got my car running with the terminator x V2 and have been watching your videos. The engine has only been idling so far because of the weather.
It is a stock block with afr165 heads, x303 cam, edelbrock performer rpm II intake and a 70mm throttle body.
Will this timing table work for me to drive around until I get it professionally tuned?
Can I get a copy of that global file to copy?
The Ford timing at 26.. that's plus the base 10 , so 36 total.. or the base is already included for 26 total?
The base is already included. That’s 26 degrees TOTAL timing. But if you twist the distributor up and down from where it is supposed to be at 10 base, it will shift all others numbers accordingly.
@@LeechMotorsports have you played around with the explorer PCMs... NRT1
I haven’t but I can pull the strategy and take a look. I’ve got the full core tuning database.
@@LeechMotorsports on that calibration NRT1.. the max timing is like 21!