I was on a construction crew in 2016 at a old sears building from 1924. Concrete takes a 100 years to cure and concrete is weak and brittle compared to granite. I had to drill out 3)4 inch holes in this 100 year old concrete. It literally took forever and i used many hammer drill bits. The idea of drilling out 6 inch hows on granite!! If you don't have diamonds on the bit you will be there forever! The only people who can appreciate this Ancient work and the true integrity of granite are those who have dealt with and worked with hard stone. People who've never done construction will never be able to understand, period.
I think it's mainly our modern day perspective that kind of blurs the lines of possibility. There are findings of stone age jewelry that are so meticulously crafted it's hard to believe people were spending a couple hours per day for months if not years to create just a single piece of jewelry. But it might be very well possible that after survival they would dedicate all of their remaining resources to find meaning in something - be it in a believe, in trinkets, astronomy etc.
@wildcountry. Or we just lack an understanding how they did it with simple tools. Here's a video how one person can move and lift a 20 ton block ruclips.net/video/E5pZ7uR6v8c/видео.html Most blocks used in pyramids are close to around 2 tons. A lot of things are possible because our minds are so good to come up with solutions.
You must be the worst builder I’ve ever come across, I’m an electrician I work in building sites all the time I’ve witness people chisel and work on granite with hand tools. You don’t NEED diamond drills, you use diamond drills because they’re quicker.
Shermer is a good skeptic, but I'll doubt how much he has overviews over all geological data of history, paleontology and archeology related... go to the Randall Carlson podcast... I mean the Göbekli tepe ok.. But there WAS a lower sea level before during the ice age. There WAS a sudden major change due to natural disasters ending the ice age AND killing off loads of big animals. The sea levels around Azores WAS lower , quite much. Atlantis myth is from Platon about the islands west of Gibraltar. Well, avoid strawmen. We are not talking advanced. Like it means today. But culture. The problem with some of the crypto archeologists is often that they mix up with postmodernist stuff exaggerating how advanced ancient societies were. THAT pushes off the mainstream. However the mainstream even denies the younger dryas catastrophe and the end of the ice age ending suddenly...
a few years back my brother and i were driving through a state park and at one point we came across an old pickup off the side of the road completely rusted through with trees growing through it. nature can swallow of traces of civilization in decades, so just imagine what 10k years can do.
Agreed. Also the search for trash and tools Which tools and trash are you exactly looking for this is long before the invention of plastic which trash are we expecting to find? Tools from which material exactly that we can expect to still be found ?
Exactly why I argue that most scientist (people with degrees) are mostly mrons. Most of them, having an experience working with more than a few, don't want to see what happens in front of there eyes if it challenges their own dogma, and they do amazing mental gymnastics to justifies their own believes.
@@ivandelac764 lol do you have the same degree or are you a book warrior with out a degree but you believe your smart you need the schooling to know what the hell you’re talking about or why have the degree
I often wonder if guys like Carlson actually believe their own grift or it it doesn't matter at all as long as people buy the books and invite them to speak.
Yes they did, nails, wood off cuts, pieces of plasterboard, wall plugs, packaging from wall sockets etc. 10 years in working in construction you see it a lot.
Even if hypothetically you can’t find the tools, we have the structure. They must have been built somehow. The tools existed. Whether they are destroyed or we just can’t pinpoint their location is irrelevant. We know they existed.
lol You have to watch the whole podcast. That's Randall Carlson, he's the most intelligent/level headed among them. He's also a berserker. He has a big info dump at one point in it too, takes everyone to school.
@Jurassic Monkey Well im not an expert about the subject but our ancestors came to Anatolia around 1000 years ago. On the other hand Joe and his guests are talking about 11000 years ago. There is a huge time gap but, i heard from somewhere in the past that locals were considering the mountain top already a sacred place before the discovery. Ofcourse it's a rumor but thats what i heard. God maybe i heard it from this video can't remember, it has been 3 years since i watched it. :)
We find tools in ancient archeological sites all of the time. Tools get lost, thrown away, forgotten about, etc. You’d expect a hyper-advanced civilization to leave something behind beyond structures that have more reasonable explanations behind their construction
here's an idea: people built the site. Conditions changed- climate, drought, famine, maybe war, something- and the people who built it were gone. New people moved in and started farming. They found the old stone 'gods' on the hill unnerving. It's like living next to somebody's graveyard. They didn't dare destroy it and risk the wrath of these unknown gods, so they buried it so they wouldn't have to look at it.
@Nick Nack but regardless of the construction process they carved stones and built a massive site and lived in that area for that long, with a population big enough to build those structures, and you think they wouldn't have been able to make pottery? Nothing else but stone would survive for 12000 years.
What's the matter with you using common sense like that? Don't you know the world revolves around scientists they should have been honored to leave behind their precious tools for scientists 10,000 year later.
@@dudelikeseriously8418 Who says it was meant to be hidden? Like the guy above you says we don’t know who buried it. It could’ve been another people who came long after the creators. Could be beefing tribes, tribes who didn’t worship those gods who couldn’t destroy it because of how large and advanced it was tried to bury it... Also as someone who uses tools everyday I’m very meticulous about cleaning up & making sure all my tools are accounted for, and my tools are no where near as valuable as theirs. I can go to any Home Depot to grab drills or tons of wrenches, they were building their own tools which took time and more precious. Why would they leave them behind unless they died with them which is usually how ancient tools are found.
Hey Graham...I'm 82 and a grandma and l started reading the Emmanuel Velikofksy books when I was 15. People laugh, but what's so fearful to skeptics about thinking outside the box? It's the "outside the box thinkers people" who have moved civilization forward while the skeptics have worked hard to stone, behead, imprison and burn at the stake the people who have looked at the ocean and said what's over there or looked at the heavens and said those specks of light are trillions of galaxies. I was a Physiotherapist for 43 years of my life and just getting people to think about new techniques was painful. To my way of thinking skeptics are bull headed because they lack imagination. The gentleman skeptic on this Joe Rogan program has the same hardened flat affect look on his face as 30 years or so ago. Keep searching Graham even if we never learn who carved and moved the Easter Island wonders or raised megalithic stones to the tops of mountains!!! ❤
Attention Work Crew: This site is to be buried with reverence, and your tools are incredibly valuable. Please remove all tools from the work site at the end of your shift. Failure to do so will result in termination, and may enrage the gods. Thank you for your cooperation. - The Management
@Nick Nack Well, either way, it amounts to the same thing. The more we learn, the more questions we have to ask. It would be fantastic to excavate the entire site and learn more about our history.
Fact , we know when it was barried. That's the only fact . It could have been built the week before, the year before 10, 000 years before. Ant think 9n the Actual age the site was built is all just opinion.
@Nick Nack maybe it's just me, but the comment you responded to seemed to me only showing that the oft-repeated dating info only establishes a lower boundary on the age of the site.
I'm in turkey now I will go and find the answers stand by folks Update 2023 people keep asking for updates i only encountered cannibal chickens my mission ended there. My conclusion Turkey is a land of ancient structures and cannibal chickens go check it out 👽
One thing that strikes me: If only 1/20th of the already-astonishing and game changing Göbekli Tepe site has been excavated, how is it that every archaeologist in the world isn't walking around door-to-door collecting donations like the old _March of Dimes_ to fund the rest?
Because the WEF control the site and have basically shut down virtually all excavation saving it for "future generations" to deal with. They're hiding the truth.
They mostly are? Archeology is underfunded and academics have to compete for any funding they can get. Besides part of the reason things are not excavated is to leave it to future generations of more sophisticated archeologists to look at
The skeptic in this vid could not have been much worse about trying to argue against the main points of lost civilization though. He honestly strengthens what he's trying to argue against more than anything else.
@Stan Armenyan only an idiot would believe he lost the argument. I bet you believe property tax is a benevolent process. The type to kill if told by the "law". Since you are stupid I'm insulting you.
Pseudohistory, claiming that an advanced civilisation would've consciously chosen not to use metal tools - that's just illogical. But Hancock makes money off of these theories
Shermer: "We can't find pieces of broken pottery or discarded tools, so there is nothing to see here". Hancock: "Did you happen to notice the monumental megalithic construction, by any chance ?"
@@Prometheus4096 What if they didn't make pottery? What if they carved wooden bowls or had naturally occurring vessels? Also, didn't they say it was purposefully buried, implying the people left, and, on top of that, that they've uncovered only ~2% of the structures? The lack of pottery at this stage isn't ruling anything out, imo.
This Guy: "Why is there no tools or trash at this obviously sacred place?" Me: I've been to a bunch of churches and have never seen the tools used to build them still laying about or left my trash behind inside them.
@@theproprod211 That's a silly way of thinking. I live in a house that has literally NOTHING in or around it that tells people "how" it was built. I know how it was built, but there isn't anything to indicate that just kicking around waiting to be found by people. Generally speaking you don't leave all your shit laying around when you build stuff, because that would be both weird and wasteful. The tools and implements needed to build anything sufficiently advanced are themselves also advanced, and as such would be coveted by those who used them, not merely discarded and left to rot.
I'm an archaeologist and the sceptic guy isn't talking out of his ass, you usually find a lot of tools burried at archaeological sites, especially big ones
JRE at its prime. Interesting topics from not very well known people who have nothing but facts and very colorful opinions about things that actually matter
I very much like Graham, but I can’t help but notice his malice towards sherbet, whilst shermer does not show that same feeling. I think Graham had gotten a little too worked up in certain moments but I guess when you are THAT passionate, it would make sense for someone to want to defend the subject so vigorously.
I super miss this Joe. I remember watching this after work years ago while cooking dinner and then waiting to finish watching it before eating. I still remember that night. Now I often find its a lot of anger from either Joe or guests or something way too focuses on a minute detail of society (i.e. so called culture wars).
Noah Headley That’s big Santa Randall Carlson-genius of a guy. Interesting his input into the debate pretty much crushed schermer so Schermer pretty much ignored it😂
someone that swears like that in a debate weakens their argument , it shows frustration . Having said that , main stream history , science and evolution is all lies .
Not a word from him about the Bosnian pyramids. They are being excavated and studied by scientists now the same as with Gobleki Tepi. Both sites studied at the same time. Now.
Cave paintings to moving megastructures is “not much of a leap” ? It could take months to move a single stone and it would take days to paint.. Absolutely a masterclass by Randall and Graham in critical thinking.. I look forward to the Graham and mainstream dude that are going to debate on Joes show in late august 👍
What do you mean “critical thinking”? Believing in something that has no basis in evidence is the antithesis of critical thinking. Simply questioning academia is not critical thinking. Please question mainstream scientific theories, and work towards proving the theory; that is how science works. Coming up with your own theories that have no basis in scientific evidence is story-telling, not science. Hancock keeps saying he’s not a archeologist, yet wants to be accepted as an expert by the archeological community. You can’t have you cake and eat it too.
Nah, Graham’s argument was destroyed here. Gobekli tepi is not evidence of a lost advanced civilisation. There’s no reason why hunter gatherers couldn’t have built it
@@garry_thomasalways people like you who slap “conspiracy” onto something to discredit it instead of being open minded to both sides. Anatomically modern humans have been around for nearly 200,000 years, it wouldn’t be a stretch to theorize that there have been “advanced” civilizations before that have been lost to time.
I'm so confused by Michael's argument or main point, it literally just sounds like he's just stirring shitpot of mainstream archaeology. It must be so frustrating to have a productive conversation in that field man 🙄
I thought that myself but after rewatching it for the 700th time I think he just wants some physical evidence, which actually makes sense. Although I’m with graham on this.
@@tadhgkeaveney4507 He wants trash and tools.. when the site hasn't even been near fully excavated. I don't lean to either side of their arguments, but that's pretty nonsensical.
@@tadhgkeaveney4507check out uncharted X. The proof is all over We just need to look at it properly with proper context. Eg. 1100 ton blocks and crazy math encoded in pyramids. There are other sites attributed to later dates than gobekli tepe that look like it.
90% of the conversations in this field are dudes fangirling over literally anything any random girl could ask "so what are you guys doing?" And theyd have to sit trough an hour long explenation of some historical niche before another joins in with their own knowledge of the subject Thats not even a joke, a co worker was successfully flirting with a girl right up until she asked him that question and we didnt even notive her leave You hear any history relating topic and some historian just jumps up and joins the convo
Graham sounds more educated, well thought and well spoken than Michael Shermer and Graham is not a trained scientist. Meanwhile Michael Shermer seems to be trying very hard to dismiss Graham's theories with weak arguments and he was fighting a losing battle.
Almost like it’s a silly way to communicate what is true. Debates are fun, but judging what is true just because someone is more well spoken seems silly to me.
@@bisk1407 Debates are worse than that. There are various tactics that can be used, by a skilled and aggressive debater, to make your opponent appear weak or wrong or to force them into a corner which the audience may not see happening right before them. Debates are more akin to salesmanship than discussion.
I would like to recommend Miniminutemen, a channel here on RUclips that made a multi part series discussing every point and episode Hancock made in his Netflix show and explains and debunks all of them. I was intrigued by Grahams points but watching Miniminutemen really put it in perspective how ridiculous some of his claims are.
@@kristofferlodesjo5781- "Miniminutemen"? Are you seriously recommending that garbage channel? Why not some low IQ TikTok influencer then, or some trash cable television channel like the History Channel, or The Learning Channel (TLC)? I'm just asking.
@@kristofferlodesjo5781 Miniminutemen did a very good job on some points, but i felt they, like this michael guy missed the point of some of grahams statement. Ultimatley, we know have buildings from atleast 9,000 bc. Miniminute men seemed to give very crap explanations on that point. Either Hunter Gatherer somehow how the extra man power to be able to have astronomers, and skilled labourers. which is unlikely considering evidence of agriculture was in mesopetamia atleast 13,000 years ago. Or there was a civilisation before the sumerians. in which case Graham would be off by a couple thousand years but still would be ultimatly right about a lost civilisation.
Hunter gatherers have to move about so that they do not over hunt an area and run out of food. They do not hunt one area long enough to carve 20ft long slabs out of stone, then carve faces and animals out of the stone in 3D, then move that stone and place it in a fashion that points to magnetic polar earth positions or astrological positions in the sky. Aboriginals were hunter gatherers when the English came here to Australia. They do not have megalithic sites. They did not do carvings into or out of stone. There are no pyramids in Australia. There are no astrological cave paintings. Nothing indicating knowledge of north or other compass direction. Nothing indicating knowledge of earths circumferance or longtitude/latitude position.
Not to mention that hunter gatherers would not have had time to both Hunt and build this shit all at the same time. Someone clearly had to be feeding the laborers that were building this place. There is no way that they would be able to hunt and gather enough food to feed a workforce of this size. That’s not really how it works. When you hunt and gather you are mainly hunting and gathering to support you and your family for the next day or two. You’re not going to be able to kill and or gather and or prepare enough to feed more than that at a time on a daily basis. This means they must of had a surplus of food which means they had agriculture.
You're actually wrong about Aboriginals, they were excellent and I mean excellent trackers and part of the reason was because they had a very good knowledge of what was North, South, East and West. There's actually an Aboriginal language that doesn't have the words 'left' or 'right' in it instead they use West and East, your 'west' hand and your 'east' hand, and it would chance depending on whether your hand really was facing East or West and it's thought their language developed this way just so they would have such a good knowledge of direction and again is part of what made them some of the best trackers in the world. How do we know they were such good trackers? Englishmen would use them to track escaped Aboriginals and they were very impressed by them.
Its a mistake to compare Australian aboriginals to other hunter gatherer societies. The Egyptians of the old kingdom were capable of far greater things than other societies of the same time for example. It is also a mistake to assume that a hunter gatherer society cannot produce a sustainable food surplus. it's possible that these primitives had methods of gathering food that far surpassed societies of the time, just like old kingdom construction engineering was peerless in their era. Further study is needed or you're just making assumptions.
Cyance lol what exactly do you consider to be “logical” this is peer review in action. i don’t mean to be rude, but this may be what he’s saying; people aren’t exposed to fair debate and critical thinking-‘real’ knowledge is given to you in school and that’s it. it’s a stunted way of thinking to only consider total factual stuff limiting yourself and the convo. it almost stopped at the point they realized he dug his heels in almost for the sake of being a skeptic. i agree with you however in that this wasn’t that great especially the full version watch the clip or full one with SCHOCH and rogan. good luck and have a nice day.
Nick Nack i said in action. he’s a phd working out a scenario, a theory of course it’s not factual or guaranteed, a lot of science isn’t. it is however, important we DISCUSS things and not LIMIT ourselves.
@Nick Nack searches for entirely new ways of understanding and exporing unknown topics is helped by outside the box thinking. Just limiting any possible assumption to those already existing until you have overwhelming evidence otherwise is going to limit your potential for learning. Plenty of historians, archeologists included, get stuck trying to make any new evidence fit into existing concepts and theories and limit their ability to expand universal knowledge by staying within those limiting mental parameters. Guys like Einstein were famous for thought experiments that created new ideas and then seeking evidence to support them, rather than just looking at existing facts and analyzing g them from the standard viewpoint. My general point is it doesn't even matter if Graham is right or wrong, his proposals and ideas are worthwhile in the general pursuit of universal knowledge. Failed scientific theories still advance knowledge, and can often inspire new ways of thinking about other problems.
We have civilizations today that still live like hunter gatherers. Why couldnt there be different peoples at different levels of development in the past?
Ignore the comments, I know what u mean,. Totally Agree In 1950's, men were the professional, made the money, to support family. Women got married, stayed home and had babies....except one that went to Harvard, then Cornell Law, and then to be Supreme court Justice. There are always outliers.
@Nick Nack Technically there are "civilization" living today with Hunter gather culture. Civilization is just a way to describe man made environment, there are plenty of Amazon tribes and island locked civilization that don't have modern cultures.
Great point. If one were to only find proof of European civilization dating back to the Medieval period, alien archaeologists would assume humanity was an awful lot stupider than they would if they were to discover an Arabian or Asian civilization dating to that time lol
@ " In this broad sense, a civilization contrasts with non-centralized tribal societies, including the cultures of nomadic pastoralists, Neolithic societies or hunter-gatherers, but sometimes it also contrasts with the cultures found within civilizations themselves. "
If you look at NYC and Afghanistan, you’d wouldn’t think they’d be in the same world, let alone the same year in 2021. Whatever was there 12,000 years ago, lived like that and given the environment and the way the world has changed it has preserved everything the way it is. Certain parts of the world lived what seemed like different time frames. Not sure if that makes sense
@@kshelley121 You don’t even need to think about Afghanistan. There are currently many tribes in South America, Africa, Indian Ocean etc. who live way more primitively than the peoples of Göbekli Tepe.
While Michael Schermer raises some decent points, his general closed-mindedness on this topic amazes me, especially when he says a cave painting is more impressive/challenging than the largest megalithic structure known to mankind today.
@Nick Nack the organization of the workforce, education system and the technology to feed and house large number of workers on site transport materials knowledge of astrology ect, ect... To build this, is ridiculous to compare with cave drawings with a sloppy 3d effect.
@Nick Nack I don't know about Hancock or his ancient high civilisation claims. But what I know is the comparison between the skills and cognitive abilities needed to fingerpaint an animal on the wall of a cave (very sloppily) and the skills and knowledge required to train, feed, house thousands of workers to build an enormous temple, moving 30 foot rocks in the process, is laughable.
@Nick Nack I saw the video of the site where they show what they have excavated up to now, and how it's only 5% of all the site. The enormous sculpted columns, with engraved 3d depictions of their 10 Gods. This was a bit more complex and sofisticated than what hunter gatherers were known to be able to do to say the least. And far more impressive than the lascaux drawings, and I'm French and I have visited the lascaux caves.
@Nick Nack I have a feeling, like the other guy in the video, that you have no understanding of how collosal construction work is done and what is needed in terms of organisation to pull it off. I also have a feeling that you are not genuine, and you have an agenda. It boggles the mind to see someone argue that a 3d carving of a feline on a 30 foot man made column for example, is at the same level of complexity than the lascaux drawings. It's beyond ridiculous. It's like comparing the iPhone with Morse code transmitters. And then you try to save face by going with "it's artistically on the same level". Well that my friend is subjective, and is not the topic of the matter. You just have no arguments, and you try to make an impossible case to try to refute or dismiss massive new evidence that doesn't fit your agenda (it seems).
I love when David makes a perfect example of what Graham is saying, in an attempt to refute it. . It is 100% a great explanation for how these two key technologies came about simultaneously in one generation.
'academia' is toast these days - 'copper chisels' ????....... 'pounding stones' ????....... 'tombs'????.......... nobody is buying this nonsense anymore
Michael started by saying there is "no evidence to your claim so it is not true" then goes "There is no evidence so my claim is true". rules for thee but not for me
Definitely. But we do have proof all over this planet, the Sphinx, Gobekli, all the citys and stone works along the coastlines under water off of many countries. Etc.....
@@RenR70 I agree 100% pretty much proven beyond a doubt that the Sphinx is 12,000 years old minimal. The early dynastic Egyptians said in their writings that they where a legacy of a early civilization ( zepteppy) . The plausibility of Atlantis. So if we have been around for 200,000 to 300,000 years as modern homo sapiens how many times have we climb to a advanced (more or less then today) civilization and wiped out by, comet/ meteor, plague, nuclear/weapons of mass destruction , etc.... and started over again. Not much is going to last for 20, 30, 40 100 Thousand years except stone.
Sir, you must be smoking crack. Randal didn’t put forward anything of interest or anything to spark an intelligent thought. I’m sure he’s a clever guy, but he only said things which go without saying or was of no use to the discussion. Watch his segment again, he’s trying to sound clever with technical jargon rather than be real and straight to the point like Hancock.
The Göbekli Tepe used recycled biodegradable materials not metals! LOL from the guy who thought read and writing was not advancement! And doesnt understand how science works and doesnt like how science works!🤦♂️🤣 BELIEVE MY BASELESS CLAIMS! HE SAYS! 🤦♂️🤣
Why do all these skeptics always think that builders are going to spend probably their entire life building one of the most significant structures ever made on the planet and then just leave their shit scattered around everywhere like they’re not gonna clean up when they’re done.
What that other guy said, it's because when you look through a lot of big structures you find little bits here and there. A broken handle, or some guy dropped his old junky chisel down a hole and didn't want to climb in to get it back, or they find a stone hammer split into 10 pieces that they can piece back together and get a reliable idea of what it was, etc. It might be that these people simply didn't do it that way, but that would be kinda unusual.
@@davidj8321 and history also constantly changes. History also tells us that we were loin cloth cave dwellers until like 5k years ago and started building gigantic near impossible structures and then got worse at it as we went.
One of my personal theories about ancient civilizations is the reformability of metal. I suspect that people all throughout history would find metal from some older civilization and melt it down and reuse it because it is easier to reform an old metal tool than it is to excavate new metal. Clay pottery as well can be reused, just smash the pots to dust and let them sit in water for a few months and you have fresh clay. Even if it took a couple years, it would still be a huge source of reusable clay to have a pit somewhere soaking old clay objects. Also, things like wood and leather, they can be taken to make new things, and wood can always be burned. So I think that they could have easily had all these things, but in the eons since many people have come in and picked apart the reusable materials until there is nothing left.
Incredible point, as weird as it may sound primitive technology on youtube(the channel) always talks about reusing old pottery to either reinforce bad clay or as a way to just have more potting clay and credits many many ancient techniques from all over the world and it wouldn't be a stretch to say the same for another reusable material that's difficult to find
That's a good point, and we know that has certainly happened to some extent over the ages. One example that comes to mind: there used to be a lot of iron on the Coliseum in Rome, but it was stripped off and made into weapons during times when Rome was under siege, and they never bothered to put it back on again. Throughout most of known history, the norm has been to repair something rather than throw it away. Only now have our manufacturing processes gotten efficient enough that it makes sense to create something new rather than repair something old.
His name is Randall Carlson. Very interesting guy. He doesn’t step in as archaeology isnt his profession. He’s a geologist. Listen to his podcast with Joe rogan 1v1 - you won’t regret it!
LMAO I read this and thought you were referring the main guy and was reading comments when suddenly Randal: “IT SEEMS TO ME...” Lol I go holy shit! Where do you come from?!
Even with the internet and modern day tech I would be surprised if laymen who usually hunt or do other stuff could build something like Gobekli Tepe if they just came together.
@timwins31 because he has to keep the narrative that the mainstream acheologists built, that civilization wasnt advanced until white people caught up and started building/stealing things. Anything before that point, "not advanced they were just cave idiots that accidentally made this stuff"
My ancestors were hunter gatherers just a few generations back and from what I know there was very little FREE time. As a 65 year old man who hunts, fishes and gathers from the land for fun, even with all the tech (jeep, gun with scope, boat and four wheeler), to feed, clothe and shelter a family of four would take a considerable amount of time from the day. If they were agricultural and the climate was as volatile as stated, then crop failures would not allow them enough food to support the workforce. Logic would dictate they did both and maybe had to adapt their methods as the climate varied.
You are not factoring in the elder members of those groups, they had more time to plan and discover how to do things like our society today. Full-time scientists are less than 1% of the population. Most inventions are made by a SINGLE MAN, then everybody else learns to use the invention. Get it. The Maya calenders, like all of them, were developed by the priests. They had time every night to sit there and watch the stars.
I was thinking the same thing. Hunting takes more time than going to store. You can’t just drink water unless it’s pure of bacteria. So they’d have to heat up the water. Fishing always takes time and patience;maybe they had a net.
You forget that not everyone was busy. The priests in Mayan society came up with their amazing calendar. It must have been the same at gobekli tepeh. Think about these days, scientists spend so much time on fusion and cern collider because the rest of us work to provide for all the basic needs of everyone.
boomer understanding of time in full display you're so far removed from your hunter gatherer ancestors that they wouldn't even recognize you as the same species, chill grandpa
There are "advanced civilizations" living on the same planet as "hunter gatherers" today. It is a fact. Why is it so hard to believe it hasn't been so for a very very long time. Thank you Joe Rogan for sharing your experiences.
... Because the advanced civilization you speak of has advanced and evolved throughout the ages, and it has been historically documented. To suggest their was a civilization that is comparably advanced just “in different ways” is absurd. Its a claim that would fundamentally rewrite human history, and he offers zero evidence to back it up other than the existence of a few Megaliths.
Because there would be some physical evidence of said “advanced civilization”. Such a large and advanced group of people living on the earth for a “very very long time” would have left something behind. For fucks sake we can find dinosaur skeletons from 65 million years ago. And for some weird reason we can’t find any evidence of some advanced human civilization from 12,000 years ago? That apparently was super advanced and adept at all social organization and society. Give me a fucking break
Perhaps all traces are gone because it's submerged under water. Remember, the coast was further out to sea on all the continents. Look at Google maps, the lighter shade of the sea off the coasts would be above sea level. The amount of land lost was equivalent to Asia and Europe combined. 85% of the world's population live on the coast. The flood, including the massive change in climate would've stifled agriculture, displaced survivors, and great cities and ports of trade would be submerged overnight. Also what if the civilization that thrived understood the balance of nature, and that their form of a funeral was to bury the body completely naturally so that the energy could be returned to nature. Obviously they were organized and advanced enough to build all of the ancient sites we see today, they probably had a much more structured society and sound culture that allowed them to flourish. The survivors would be people living in the woods, or small villages, less educated, more isolated, and now trying to figure out to survive. Humanity took a huge 2 steps back.
@@arthurnevin1963 imo there is a lot of evidence, egypt being one, tiahuanaco other, coasts of india with giant citys, etc a point that i want to make is as humans we built upon the old, mexico city being in top of tenotchitlan, some pyramids under churchs and vegetation, etc rome a top ancient rome, egypt laberynth in hawara being told by herodotus as a better masterpiece than the giza, wich is still under sand at the top the rome built stuff etc(egyptologyst dont event talk about that, the 2008 group that found it was "fired" and his research was stopped and cancel), grecce, france, peru, etc, they all have in some kind kepping building a top old roads, old houses, repair them, etc, like i said i think the evidence is there of an ancient and different history that we dont know and that it could change a lot of stuff, also the old guard being stubborn is impediment of more research.
Hancock is mostly a money man..He seems to have started out as a more genuine archeologist type, but flew into the americanized world of trendism. They create and analyze trends and then comes the DVDs.... Dollars. This is why we see that blend of postmodernism or a kind of neo-theosophy with more genuine interest in the ancient past. This is very bad because one ruins a whole subject this way.
I'm not entirely done the video, but do they keep jumping around the fact that Gobekli Tepe is on an entirely different scale than anything chronologically close to it? If Gobekli Tepe was really built by advanced hunter-gatherers, then how come they, or other hunter-gatherers, fail to produce anything remotely like it for thousands of years? This can mean two things, either we need to do a lot more digging for structures around this time period, or there was a certain point of great advancement in our history, then they vanished and humanity slowly advanced from the ground up until where we are now.
Randal Carlson said that there was probably a massive climate catastrophe around thar time as well. So my guess is that wiped out any evidence of the trash Shermer loves so much
But do you notice how Michael Schermer is more impressed with the paintings. He is ignoring the advanced skill it would take to build structures like that in that time period! If he admits it's impressive it no longer supports the narrative that ancient people were dim witted.
Because the lost civilisation was the first people who taught the hunter gatherers their skills. Suppose for a minute Atlantis was the civilisation that was lost, the survivors making their way amongst hunter gatherers in order to survive. As those survivors die off and the knowledge and teachings of the technology they had to cut stone generation to generation gets weaker we gradually lose a lost part of our history with knowledge that is also lost. Imagine someone out of nowhere one time taught you how to build a bike and put it all together. If you passed the knowledge down to your children and them to theirs and so on gradually the skill and knowledge that this first person had would be forgotten entirely. The real mystery is who were these people who taught the hunter gatherers to do this and what other knowledge did they have that was wiped out of existence? like Graham said, we really are a species with amnesia.
Approximately eleven thousand [11,000] of your years ago, the first of the, what you call, wars, caused approximately forty percent of this population to leave the density by means of disintegration of the body. The second and most devastating of the conflicts occurred approximately one oh eight two one, ten thousand eight hundred twenty-one [10,821] years in the past according to your illusion. This created an earth-changing configuration and the large part of Atlantis was no more, having been inundated. Three of the positively oriented of the Atlantean groups left this geographical locus before that devastation, placing themselves in the mountain areas of what you call Tibet, what you call Peru, and what you call Turkey.
From what I understand, all gobekli teppe proves is that somehow humans figured out how to make a giant structure. This only shows that they were architecturally more developed than we thought. There are two possibilities here, either they figured it out in their own or someone taught them. On graham’s argument on why couldn’t this technology have been passed on by an advanced civilization to these hunter gatherers? Well that theory needs some evidence to gain support. Evidence like drawings or sculptures dedicated to this knowledge transfer. Or some proof of ancient technology which was advanced. Of which there is none. You can’t very well disprove ghosts but in order to believe in ghosts you need strong proof of ghostly activity. Similarly to claim that an advanced civilization existed, you need strong proof for this “advancement”. Also, graham hancock is deliberately vague on his definition of advanced. What exactly makes them advanced? What is the criteria for this advancement? If you can’t define that then how do you know what kind of evidence to look for?
Where's the evidence that shows a linear evolutionary trajectory of the technological advances made by hunter-gatherer bands in the Southeastern Anatolia Region of Turkey?
If it is thought that much more of the construction is buried much deeper under the ground , then the tools are likely to be found deep down the floor area. The argument of not finding any tools should be invalidated because no one, even builders twelve thousand years ago wouldn't store tools around the top floor of any building.
My guess is that there must be another significant area chock full of tools and equipment (I see no reason as why they'd destroy the tools, maybe only conceal them, possibly in another hill/cave)
Dig deeper and find the tools then. His point was that tools haven't been found YET, so don't ASSUME they will be found somewhere else. Literally the only evidence is there are big rocks in place, which we know primitive people are able to do, so why is it necessary that an advanced civilization lived there?
'Where are the metal tools?" Interesting question. At the "building of King Solomon's Temple," it is said in the Entered Apprentice degree, "there was not heard the sound of an axe, hammer, or any tool of iron."
@@nachomagallanico The most effective con men and women have careers in advertising, public relations, television broadcasting and hold high office in government. Graham Hancock is an amateur in comparison.
@@joecaner a real con man that sells books, lots of books, making millions giving the fake image of a Maverick, while he’s just spreading lies and speculation. He has the real profile of a con man. In addition he really seems intellectually dishonest, of this I’m not sure, but he seems to be erudite enough to realise that his hypothesis lacks completely of substance, hence he plays the victim and discredits a whole field of research… so feeling egocentric. And then you listen to his fans defending him like the leader of a cult… cause he reveals the truth hidden by the établissement. Real con man….so full of shit
@@leeonardodienfield402 what evidence? Hancock surely didn't produce a single one. here's the modern archaeologucal consensus as far as i'm aware: were there an ancient cultures? ofcourse, homo sapience is like 300 000 years old. were some of them lost? ofcourse, majority of them. most of them didn't make any shit that would last long enough to be found by us. were they more advanced than us? nope.
@@swancrunch no one has claimed they were as advanced as us in peer review, just advanced. You are proving yourself wrong... academia refutes the possibility of high culture, society and agriculture. That is the point. So you agree with Graham, not current historical science. The evidence of a global catastrophe is irrefutable at this point. Greenland oxygen isotope data from ice cores prove this, it coincides with the younger dryas layer which is itself hard evidence of a very recent catastrophe. The debate is whether or not "recorded history" was really just past knowledge and culture instead of springing up out of no where with the advent of cities, writing and agriculture. Do you even know what this theory presents or are you just repeating what you've heard from others? Sounds like the latter. Even mainstream journals are publishing data on the black mat layer and the extinction even that is seen there. Previously it was "fact" that humans, specifically the Clovis Indians caused 75% of north American mega fauna to die off. That is because of people like you, who don't look at any of the data objectively and instead assume we've got it right already. Very sad.
@@leeonardodienfield402 , let's have some structure in our arguement. i'm not entirely disagree. 1) define "advanced". what advances did this culture have over our usual understanding of hunter-gatherer society of the time? what is the evidence for that? 2) Randall's catastrophe thing is convincing. i haven't seen much material to the contrary, but admittedly hadn't research it as thoroughtly as i should. although it feels like he can be under heavyweight case of confirmation bias (looking at his numerology wackery). would really like to hear him debate with some disagreeing professional. 3) how did i prove myself wrong?
I'm half way through, and I'm not even sure I understand what they're arguing about. Hancock says they were 'advanced', Shermer asks him what he means by advanced, Hancock says "well, they created the megaliths at Gobekli Tepe", Shermer says that doesn't mean they were advanced. Rinse and repeat.
I don't get shermers argument. They were able to build this thing 2,000 years before the pyramids with no discernible method to do so. It's not his way of advanced meaning writing and tools and shit.
One guy says, "hey hunter gatherers were more capable than we thought." The other says, "There existed an ancient ultra advanced civilization though I have no evidence I know I am correct."
If Shermer is correct, we are to believe that a group of hunter/gatherers stopped roaming while looking for food, and built one of the most impressive stone structures ever constructed. The length of the project and the number of people it would have taken to build such a structure would have required them to settle in one place. This would require them to farm and build dwellings to remain at the site and build the structure. I also don’t think that hunter/gatherer groups traveled in enormous groups of people. It is obvious that if primitive people built this with primitive tools it would have required lots of people to do it. For me, all points to advanced civilization.
Doesn't mean all the hunter-gatherers had to stop hunting and gathering, just that they supported some sort of artist caste who worked on the site day in day out, and ate what was given to them.
@@DonRicoKing I think that's the point. We can't find the evidence that archeologists want, except for the structures themselves. No one can explain how it was done, which in a sense is enough evidence to question the "mainstream" theories. GT is a new discovery which massively questions previous assumption/schools of thought. There is literally no hard evidence to suggest the ancient Egyptians built the great pyramids, yet everyone has been told therefore thinks they did. It opens up a whole load of questions that may contradict the establishment of archeology who have made their livelihoods on previous schools of thoughts, which is what we are all taught growing up. Sometimes the lack of evidence is all the evidence one may need
@@dp3699 "We can't find the evidence that archeologists want" that is what annoys me. You re suggesting that there is a mafia consisting of Archeologists. But that is not true at all. Archeologists are always extremely thrilled, then somebody makes a new discovery.
@@dp3699 "No one can explain how it was done, which in a sense is enough evidence to question the "mainstream" theories. GT is a new discovery which massively questions previous assumption/schools of thought. There is literally no hard evidence to suggest the ancient Egyptians built the great pyramids, yet everyone has been told therefore thinks they did." That is not right at all. There are mathematical and chemical methods to calculate when the building of the pyrmaids startet and ended. How they were build is a different story. It is true, nowadays there is no final theory on how they were build. There are different theories based on experiments and findings at the pyramids. There are also scientific scrolls. But with time the picture is getting clearer. For example some scientist found, that there was a now dried out waterway, which they use to transport the stones to the building site.
I am an Engineer that works with GIS and completed my doctorate in Megalithic Steucrures. I've been to Gobekli Tepe, Karan Tepe, several other Tepes in Turkey and several Tells in Syria and Lebanon (which are older that GT). The constant return to the cave paintings is extremely Euroscebtric....and there are his motives. Several academic papers have been written on the subject...the latest from the University of Istanbul in December 2022...Archeology is coming around.
You hold writing on a higher level, but as he said, maybe oral transfer was the way they communicated. You can’t say either moving stones or writing is the more intelligent or impressive work. It works both ways
Tony Dwaine I wasn't talking about writing I was talking about the ability to create the illusion of 3 dimensions on 2 dimensional surfaces...Thats why in our culture it occur about 5,000 after moving rocks.
Michael Stead how can you say that when they are stating hunter and gatherers were painting 30000 years ago... I mean? doesn't matter what culture did it, man figured it out long ago, it's pretty primative to rub color on something and go from there, the 3d was stone carving and that was not the argument, it was painting in general vs carving stone.
Graham's story about the New Scientist magazine is pretty revealing of how his brain works. He made it sound very ironic and vindicating, but if you listen closely, all that's happened is he saw the cover story that was published and decided in his head that his book "essentially" said the same thing. "Civilization is older and more mysterious than we thought" is a pretty broad/generic idea and it wouldn't even necessarily be remarkable if Graham's critics published the same phrase that Graham had published without realizing it, but just to reiterate, they did not publish the same phrase because Graham never published that phrase, he just retroactively used the phrase to self-describe his book and declared himself a victory. Finally, Graham's book is not "essentially" about civilization being older and more mysterious. The essential message of his book, which is much more specific and is written in the TITLE AND SUBTITLE, is that a higher civilization influenced all other lesser civilizations that came after it.
@@ConScanlon I agree. Hancock's attempt to explain away the lack of tools and writing at the site was weak. 'They just decided not to use tools' is not particularly compelling and is the opposite of what an advanced civilisation would do. If I had knowledge and capability to make a job orders of magnitude easier then I would use it.
@@markbodle6339 i mean, the city was burried, right? why should there be tools, clothing or anything if it deliberately was burried as stated by the head archeoligist? But i agree: Graham really had a weird undertone that was very aggressive. I usually like him a lot but here he just seem to be offended.
I've seen this episode in full a few times and always catch myself on the clips. Every episode with Randal and Graham is worth watching. I would and do recommend it.
"Where are the tools?" Dude, I had a 10mm socket that I used once and I swear it just freaking EVAPORATED the moment I set it down, never to be seen again. Ever. GONE. On a more serious note, Rust eats metal shockingly fast. Without protective coatings, anything made of metal can be transformed into soil in just a decade.
Seriously. We're talking about a 12 THOUSAND year old civilization. It was considered ancient 11k years ago lol. Think of how many civilizations could have come and gone in that time. Any tools left behind would've been taken and repurposed a thousand times over. And they've only uncovered 2% of the ruins. Crazy.
Aaron Tuplin Joe Rogan is my guy, but he is pushing the “some human” agenda so hard I know he’s been given direction. How does Joe know it WAS humans???
Shermers position is just defending what the scientific community has agreed on. Hancock is the contrarian on all of these topics of ancient civilizations
To be fair, that is what skeptics do though. Make the strongest possible argument against an idea and expose flaws/weaknesses. Its like socratic dialogue but with more people.
The excavated parts of Gobekli Tepe are the younger portions. The unexcavated parts are older, as shown by the progression of dates. With the discovery of Karahan Tepe & other Tas Tapele sites being proved to be older than the excavated parts of Gobekli Tepe, it's interesting to note that excavations have stopped at Gobekli Tepe. It's almost as if mainstream archaeologists are afraid to continue, for fear of what they may find.
I think you may need to research more. The flood mentioned in the bible is the same flood mentioned in Sumerian writings & further evidenced by the world - wide floods mentioned by other cultures. There is geophysical eveidence of this flood. The story of Noah is quite obviously the story recounted in the Epic of Gilgamesh, which pre - dates the biblical story. Archaeologists aren't devout atheists, just dependent on the mainstream narrative of archaeolgical dating currently upheld by such people as Hawas, who is happily skulking around Egypts most ancient sites, often under cover of darkness, interfering & quite possibly removing any evidence he finds that does not support him & his theories & espoused timeline.
wiremessiah undomesticated bones? That must be their dinosaur ancestry right? How would you even guess the life of a chicken? How does the existence of a fence show up in bone samples?
I’m leaning towards believing hancock on this one because in order for them to have built something like that, they would’ve needed a large society with an established hierarchy which seems to indicate it was an intelligent culture
Gobekli Tepe is quite a bit more advanced than the primitive cave paintings of Italy. Hard to imagine a bunch of nomadic hunter-gatherers suddenly learned advanced rock quarrying and sculpting techniques at such an early date. But it seems humanity has had pockets of more high-minded peoples going back 10s if not 100s of thousands of years. I think that wherever the Sumerians suddenly and inexplicably inherited their advanced civilization from, there is probably some link with Gobekli Tepe and other such yet-to-be-discovered sites in that part of the world.
@@harveyblevins74 I have a personal theory that certain sites of dense and consistent resources would sometimes bring multiple smaller hunter gatherer populations together, and I think a result of that established regional conglomeration was those multiple cultures coming together to build certain small cultural hubs to share those resources. I mean from what we assume hunter gathers would fight each other over pockets of land like this, but what if that wasn’t always the case, and some realized that if there was enough to go around everyone could benefit from it? Over time as the cultures would become more and more homogeneous, the sight would gain greater and greater cultural significance and grow larger, and as it grew larger more and more people would spend time around it leading to people spending time around large amounts of natural resources in turn to possible leading advancements in agriculture as population density would inevitably rise. I think this site in particular was a early-mid stage of this scenario happening
Christian Ortaliz hunter gatherers still around today , shermer doesn't realise this it would be like asking them to construct the Eiffel Tower lol so when gobekli Tepe was conctructed there obviously was more advanced civilisations around
@@johnmartin4233 Technically the builders of stone henge were neolithic -- in other words, in the intermediate stage between modern "civilization" and hunter-gatherers. They had agriculture, but no cities or formal systems of government, or modern division of labor. The latest additions to stone henge were made in the early bronze age. The builders of gobekli tepe were also neolithic. They were in the stone age, but had plant and animal agriculture. Sedentary, village-dwelling people. No writing system to speak of, no pottery, no metalworking. Agriculture yes, but that's hardly what Hancock is claiming when he says, "advanced civilization." If there were cities 10,000 years ago, we'd know it.
1) trees planted on site 2) roads pored on top of site 3) money over uncovering and learning about the intended use of the site 4) W.H.O involved 5) Suspected that people don’t want site uncovered
Michael Shermer chastises Hancock for theorizing about Gobekli Tepe instead of saying it's just a mystery while he does exactly the same thing (as does the orthodox scientific community). When you see this kind of hypocrisy, you know someone is defending an ideology.
I agree, however he's not creating a lost super advanced civilization to explain it, he's saying that we underestimated the capabilities of people at the time.
The claim that it was an advanced civilization is a much bigger leap than hunter gatheres were more capable than we assumed. Occam's razor would imply that the latter is more likely. Also extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And for the moment that's lacking. Because you could also say it was Aliens, and say well you are also speculating, but it's not the same is it?
Before Gobekli Tepe, there was no evidence of large scale construction from that era. They have dug into cities and stopped digging because of the agreed timeline of civilization. In many sites it may be worth the time to dig a little deeper.
I was on a construction crew in 2016 at a old sears building from 1924. Concrete takes a 100 years to cure and concrete is weak and brittle compared to granite. I had to drill out 3)4 inch holes in this 100 year old concrete. It literally took forever and i used many hammer drill bits. The idea of drilling out 6 inch hows on granite!! If you don't have diamonds on the bit you will be there forever! The only people who can appreciate this Ancient work and the true integrity of granite are those who have dealt with and worked with hard stone. People who've never done construction will never be able to understand, period.
A lot of the granite they used was poured in place.
I think it's mainly our modern day perspective that kind of blurs the lines of possibility. There are findings of stone age jewelry that are so meticulously crafted it's hard to believe people were spending a couple hours per day for months if not years to create just a single piece of jewelry. But it might be very well possible that after survival they would dedicate all of their remaining resources to find meaning in something - be it in a believe, in trinkets, astronomy etc.
@@h.hickenanaduk8622 What would hold the molten granite for a mold? And all blocks look different in some way not nearly the same
@wildcountry. Or we just lack an understanding how they did it with simple tools. Here's a video how one person can move and lift a 20 ton block ruclips.net/video/E5pZ7uR6v8c/видео.html
Most blocks used in pyramids are close to around 2 tons. A lot of things are possible because our minds are so good to come up with solutions.
You must be the worst builder I’ve ever come across, I’m an electrician I work in building sites all the time I’ve witness people chisel and work on granite with hand tools. You don’t NEED diamond drills, you use diamond drills because they’re quicker.
Joe should use some of that spotify money and excavate the rest of Gobekli Tepe lol
its in turkey near the syrian border, I don't think that would be a good idea or investment.
The area is well protected from invasions. Half of Turkey's army is there.
@@thexneo3528 very true with airplanes constantly on combat air patrol
@@mawortz why not? Sure there’s a war there but there’s A lot Turkish soldiers there protecting the border
That would take the JRE to the next level
This was the intellectual equivalent of a back alley knife fight.
Hahahahahahaa
hahahaha
And joe was eating popcorn from his balcony. Just watching
@@thenlnlkn He'd be snorting weeds
Its Only 1 intellectual in that room. The guy with glasses. The other one is full of Shitt.
"Maybe sometimes your skin is so thick you can't sense anything around you" is one of the best Hancock insults ever.
I want to double click on your statement. Bless quote is right!
What’s Hancock Insult???🤔🤷🏿♂️
@@Stobadd93 8.36
😂😂😂🔥🔥🔥🔥
Well this 5 years later becames you Daily fight
I want joe to get back to these kinds of talks
same!
W3rd
I’d be cool if he had graham on once a month I’d be happy
I want the JRE to be live on RUclips again...
Shermer is a good skeptic, but I'll doubt how much he has overviews over all geological data of history, paleontology and archeology related... go to the Randall Carlson podcast... I mean the Göbekli tepe ok.. But there WAS a lower sea level before during the ice age. There WAS a sudden major change due to natural disasters ending the ice age AND killing off loads of big animals. The sea levels around Azores WAS lower , quite much. Atlantis myth is from Platon about the islands west of Gibraltar. Well, avoid strawmen. We are not talking advanced. Like it means today. But culture. The problem with some of the crypto archeologists is often that they mix up with postmodernist stuff exaggerating how advanced ancient societies were. THAT pushes off the mainstream. However the mainstream even denies the younger dryas catastrophe and the end of the ice age ending suddenly...
a few years back my brother and i were driving through a state park and at one point we came across an old pickup off the side of the road completely rusted through with trees growing through it. nature can swallow of traces of civilization in decades, so just imagine what 10k years can do.
Agreed. Also the search for trash and tools
Which tools and trash are you exactly looking for this is long before the invention of plastic which trash are we expecting to find?
Tools from which material exactly that we can expect to still be found ?
Exactly why I argue that most scientist (people with degrees) are mostly mrons. Most of them, having an experience working with more than a few, don't want to see what happens in front of there eyes if it challenges their own dogma, and they do amazing mental gymnastics to justifies their own believes.
@@ivandelac764 you're an idiot friendo
@@ivandelac764 lol do you have the same degree or are you a book warrior with out a degree but you believe your smart you need the schooling to know what the hell you’re talking about or why have the degree
@@ivandelac764 true books are nothing compared to doing actual work. Also computer work too
Randall Carlson is a true G for patiently waiting to speak his piece
Didn’t even realize he was there until he spoke 😂
Fr
I often wonder if guys like Carlson actually believe their own grift or it it doesn't matter at all as long as people buy the books and invite them to speak.
Read this comment seconds before he spoke 😂
@@tpxchallenger maybe it's like a clinical narcissism thing, where they have an emotional need to believe they're important.
"Where are the tools?" Did the people who built your house leave the circular saws and nailguns there when they left?
Yes they did, nails, wood off cuts, pieces of plasterboard, wall plugs, packaging from wall sockets etc. 10 years in working in construction you see it a lot.
@@samueljohnston1043and after 10,000 years, would those nails and plasterboard still be there?
@@DoubleGBros dunno it's possible tho
Even if hypothetically you can’t find the tools, we have the structure.
They must have been built somehow. The tools existed. Whether they are destroyed or we just can’t pinpoint their location is irrelevant. We know they existed.
What kind of strawman argument is that?
Dude with the beard and blue shirt came outta nowhere lmao
lol You have to watch the whole podcast. That's Randall Carlson, he's the most intelligent/level headed among them. He's also a berserker. He has a big info dump at one point in it too, takes everyone to school.
Randall was takin a big ol shit.
This made me really laugh 😂😂
18;20 i laughed so hard when he just popped out of nowhere, lol talk about third wheeling
The smart ones are always listening to others and talk when they've formed some strong arguments
As a Turk, it is really funny to hear “hill with a belly”(göbekli tepe) a billion times.
Well, thank you for the language lesson there....I am now going to laugh when I hear people say it, too lol
@Jurassic Monkey Well im not an expert about the subject but our ancestors came to Anatolia around 1000 years ago. On the other hand Joe and his guests are talking about 11000 years ago. There is a huge time gap but, i heard from somewhere in the past that locals were considering the mountain top already a sacred place before the discovery. Ofcourse it's a rumor but thats what i heard. God maybe i heard it from this video can't remember, it has been 3 years since i watched it. :)
@Jurassic Monkey I saw some similarity of signs in göbekli tepe with aborigins in australia
@Jurassic Monkey oh I don't know which group it is.
anotolia is vast so many civilizations in one area
Randall Carlson was impressively neutral throughout the first 18 minutes of the video. In fact, I didn't even know he was there.
Lol I had no idea a third guest was there until he spoke
Randalf the Grey speaks only when necessary. No more.
@@sirloin7633 one of the best comments ive read all week! and it's thursday already
Randalf came with the eagles when he chimed in
Hi, I would love to get your opinions on the topics I cover on my channel! I am new and would love to get more subs and exposure! Thanks QEC
"Why didn't they leave tools behind when they intentionally buried this structure?" My dude, tools are valuable especially in ancient times
the metal tools all just rusted away....stone stays around.
stupid question. seriously seriously stupid. why the fuck would they leave them?
Exactly, lol. Who throws tools away, willy nilly? 😂
Why leave tools when they are valuable.. tools are keep in a safe place to use
We find tools in ancient archeological sites all of the time. Tools get lost, thrown away, forgotten about, etc. You’d expect a hyper-advanced civilization to leave something behind beyond structures that have more reasonable explanations behind their construction
Legend has it that to this day, Joe is still trying to establish that *humans* built it.
Joe rogan is Gobeklitepe
Tobeckli gepe is jogen roe
@@legitimate_opposition2002 yis
Let’s make this clear we know humans made this
No one's arguing about that. We know humans built it. Who else would have built it? Cattle?
If they buried gobekli tepe on purpose then i imagine they would take all their tools and pottery out
If you took upon yourself the immense effort required to bury this entire, massive site, would you overlook the details?
That is possible, but the site isn't completely uncovered yet, so can it be stated that their were no tools or pottery?
here's an idea: people built the site. Conditions changed- climate, drought, famine, maybe war, something- and the people who built it were gone. New people moved in and started farming. They found the old stone 'gods' on the hill unnerving. It's like living next to somebody's graveyard. They didn't dare destroy it and risk the wrath of these unknown gods, so they buried it so they wouldn't have to look at it.
Holla...
@Nick Nack but regardless of the construction process they carved stones and built a massive site and lived in that area for that long, with a population big enough to build those structures, and you think they wouldn't have been able to make pottery? Nothing else but stone would survive for 12000 years.
If it was deliberately buried wouldnt it make sense they took their stuff with them and didn’t bury those
What's the matter with you using common sense like that? Don't you know the world revolves around scientists they should have been honored to leave behind their precious tools for scientists 10,000 year later.
"Deliberately buried" doesn't mean it was the people who built it who buried it... It really creates more questions then answers unfortunately...
I thought this too. If it was meant to be hidden, proof of inhabitants would be taken too.
@@dudelikeseriously8418 Who says it was meant to be hidden? Like the guy above you says we don’t know who buried it. It could’ve been another people who came long after the creators. Could be beefing tribes, tribes who didn’t worship those gods who couldn’t destroy it because of how large and advanced it was tried to bury it... Also as someone who uses tools everyday I’m very meticulous about cleaning up & making sure all my tools are accounted for, and my tools are no where near as valuable as theirs. I can go to any Home Depot to grab drills or tons of wrenches, they were building their own tools which took time and more precious. Why would they leave them behind unless they died with them which is usually how ancient tools are found.
Stop! No making sense, shut up you!
Hey Graham...I'm 82 and a grandma and l started reading the Emmanuel Velikofksy books when I was 15. People laugh, but what's so fearful to skeptics about thinking outside the box? It's the "outside the box thinkers people" who have moved civilization forward while the skeptics have worked hard to stone, behead, imprison and burn at the stake the people who have looked at the ocean and said what's over there or looked at the heavens and said those specks of light are trillions of galaxies. I was a Physiotherapist for 43 years of my life and just getting people to think about new techniques was painful. To my way of thinking skeptics are bull headed because they lack imagination. The gentleman skeptic on this Joe Rogan program has the same hardened flat affect look on his face as 30 years or so ago. Keep searching Graham even if we never learn who carved and moved the Easter Island wonders or raised megalithic stones to the tops of mountains!!! ❤
Attention Work Crew:
This site is to be buried with reverence, and your tools are incredibly valuable.
Please remove all tools from the work site at the end of your shift.
Failure to do so will result in termination, and may enrage the gods.
Thank you for your cooperation.
- The Management
@Nick Nack I think you missed the joke
@Nick Nack Well, either way, it amounts to the same thing. The more we learn, the more questions we have to ask. It would be fantastic to excavate the entire site and learn more about our history.
"I'm getting sick of these menial construction works. I might move to Atlantis."
-9000BCE HUMAN
Fact , we know when it was barried. That's the only fact . It could have been built the week before, the year before 10, 000 years before. Ant think 9n the Actual age the site was built is all just opinion.
@Nick Nack maybe it's just me, but the comment you responded to seemed to me only showing that the oft-repeated dating info only establishes a lower boundary on the age of the site.
I'm in turkey now I will go and find the answers stand by folks
Update 2023
people keep asking for updates i only encountered cannibal chickens my mission ended there. My conclusion Turkey is a land of ancient structures and cannibal chickens go check it out 👽
And!?
@CANADIAN REBEL I only found cannibal chickens sorry I let you guys down I'm a bad agent of truth
@CANADIAN REBEL 👽👍
What if..hear me out....since there wasnt much to do in ancient times besides not dying...what if....they did it out of boredom
@@jkee9760 exactly what i was thinking
One thing that strikes me: If only 1/20th of the already-astonishing and game changing Göbekli Tepe site has been excavated, how is it that every archaeologist in the world isn't walking around door-to-door collecting donations like the old _March of Dimes_ to fund the rest?
Because that's what Egyptologists do
Because the WEF control the site and have basically shut down virtually all excavation saving it for "future generations" to deal with. They're hiding the truth.
They mostly are? Archeology is underfunded and academics have to compete for any funding they can get. Besides part of the reason things are not excavated is to leave it to future generations of more sophisticated archeologists to look at
@@herrk.2339
Way to juggle those WEF balls there Skippy.
@@Powermad-bu4em WEF as in World Economic Forum? I think we live in different worlds haha
Dang, Randall just popped out of nowhere like, “Y’all thought I was gonna miss this?”
Bro seriously just appeared like nothing hahaha
I know I was like 🤩🤩
Yo really tho I almost thought the video switched
@@jhank0cean exactly that I thought too lol
18 minutes in a new challenger suddenly emerges
boss tacos
Hancock has Carlson as his wingman, in the flesh whereas Shermer has to phone a friend via FaceTime who is then also a dumbass.
Bro I got scared when that guy jumped in to convo. Did he just from bathroom or wha
@@yavuzkeles320 He actually was not there. But then a Mandela effect kicked in...
Not challenger, rogan, Hancock and the blue shirt are all on the same side against that dumb Shermer betamale
Grey Troll lmao
Joe rogan “so we agree they are human”.
LOL!!!
I am still holding on to the theory that the whales built Stonehenge
@@marksmith4346 *mind blown*
Bruh🤣🤣🤣
@@marksmith4346 i think the biker mice could have built it.
This is one of the main reasons I love JRE. He has skeptics on so they don’t create an echo chamber
The skeptic in this vid could not have been much worse about trying to argue against the main points of lost civilization though. He honestly strengthens what he's trying to argue against more than anything else.
@@cooper2850that’s the point…
Shermer is a fucking joke. He's a sceptic for the sake of skepticism.
When Hancock let's fly the f-bomb, you know he's real frustrated.
@Stan Armenyan the guy was being an asshole on purpose. No one likes THAT guy
@Stan Armenyan only an idiot would believe he lost the argument. I bet you believe property tax is a benevolent process. The type to kill if told by the "law". Since you are stupid I'm insulting you.
@@Runescape99 being against authority doesn't make you right.
@@gretzkey66 according to history it does. But that requires thought and this is RUclips go back to feeling safe.
@@Runescape99 What? You're so black and white its not even funny.
“People have been carving stone for thousands of years”
yes that’s the point
If Mr Hancock would’ve said, “you argue with everything I say,” the other guy would’ve said, “I do not.”
not really. he agreed with him on like half the things he said
Hes a professional skeptic so even though i side w Grahms ideas i dont fault the guy for questioning and arguing everything its literally his job
He's there to argue.
Pseudohistory, claiming that an advanced civilisation would've consciously chosen not to use metal tools - that's just illogical. But Hancock makes money off of these theories
Hancock is a fantasy writer who people believe because he uses little bits of separate evidences to create new theories
Shermer: "We can't find pieces of broken pottery or discarded tools, so there is nothing to see here".
Hancock: "Did you happen to notice the monumental megalithic construction, by any chance ?"
You missed the point. The great pyramid is so large, it doesn't get deposited in earth layers that are buried. Pottery would. The point is the age.
That's it in a nutshell OP
@@Prometheus4096 What if they didn't make pottery? What if they carved wooden bowls or had naturally occurring vessels? Also, didn't they say it was purposefully buried, implying the people left, and, on top of that, that they've uncovered only ~2% of the structures?
The lack of pottery at this stage isn't ruling anything out, imo.
@@youtubeisassho8834 No.
@@Prometheus4096 Look up pre-potterry Neolithic period which this falls under. It's basically stone age, which destroys that entire pottery argument.
The underlining of anger n spite between them two is real
This Guy: "Why is there no tools or trash at this obviously sacred place?"
Me: I've been to a bunch of churches and have never seen the tools used to build them still laying about or left my trash behind inside them.
Hancock: I assume you have been to these places.
This guy: No I haven't.
Hancock: Oh dear.
Tf? There would still be things there that would prove how its built
@@theproprod211 what things do you mean?
@@theproprod211 That's a silly way of thinking. I live in a house that has literally NOTHING in or around it that tells people "how" it was built. I know how it was built, but there isn't anything to indicate that just kicking around waiting to be found by people. Generally speaking you don't leave all your shit laying around when you build stuff, because that would be both weird and wasteful. The tools and implements needed to build anything sufficiently advanced are themselves also advanced, and as such would be coveted by those who used them, not merely discarded and left to rot.
I'm an archaeologist and the sceptic guy isn't talking out of his ass, you usually find a lot of tools burried at archaeological sites, especially big ones
JRE at its prime. Interesting topics from not very well known people who have nothing but facts and very colorful opinions about things that actually matter
The manner to which they all spoke and were able to listen and politely disagree with each other was so refreshing to see!
I very much like Graham, but I can’t help but notice his malice towards sherbet, whilst shermer does not show that same feeling. I think Graham had gotten a little too worked up in certain moments but I guess when you are THAT passionate, it would make sense for someone to want to defend the subject so vigorously.
I think these people are very well known in they respective expertise...Michael Shermer is very popular amongst people who are into science. Ect.
Michael shermer is a very popular atheist speaker
Graham is a slimy grifter..
I super miss this Joe. I remember watching this after work years ago while cooking dinner and then waiting to finish watching it before eating. I still remember that night. Now I often find its a lot of anger from either Joe or guests or something way too focuses on a minute detail of society (i.e. so called culture wars).
Love how blue shirt man appears for the first time 18 minutes in with no explanation lmao
Noah Headley That’s big Santa Randall Carlson-genius of a guy. Interesting his input into the debate pretty much crushed schermer so Schermer pretty much ignored it😂
back when joe and jamie got way too high before recording and editing haha
I didn't even know he was there until he said something🤣
@@gypsydoratarot8441 , no he’s not. The blue-shirt guy is Randall Carlson.
Hancock: "There's 50x as much as what's on the surface still buried."
Me: Get the damn shovel!!!
Seriously, why waste time arguing? Just go fucking dig it up already
just heard that . holy shit . dig baby dig ..
I got a back hoe. Some assembly required but if they can build it we can dig it.
😄
and later it gets smaller on conversation 🤔 😁 personal attacking on Michael makes Graham's arguments harder to believe and "selective evidence".
Hancock with an "F BOMB" out of know where 10/10
someone that swears like that in a debate weakens their argument , it shows frustration . Having said that , main stream history , science and evolution is all lies .
@Alexander Supertramp To line my pockets from gullible idiots that think it works!
Not a word from him about the Bosnian pyramids.
They are being excavated and studied by scientists now the same as with Gobleki Tepi.
Both sites studied at the same time.
Now.
@@Adam-7_7_7 fuck off
Adz F P holy shit are you really that ignorant you think evolution is a lie? that’s kinda pathetic and lazy do some research
Cave paintings to moving megastructures is “not much of a leap” ?
It could take months to move a single stone and it would take days to paint..
Absolutely a masterclass by Randall and Graham in critical thinking.. I look forward to the Graham and mainstream dude that are going to debate on Joes show in late august 👍
He's not talking about the physical acts to do so. He's referring to the intellect to do so.
What do you mean “critical thinking”? Believing in something that has no basis in evidence is the antithesis of critical thinking.
Simply questioning academia is not critical thinking. Please question mainstream scientific theories, and work towards proving the theory; that is how science works.
Coming up with your own theories that have no basis in scientific evidence is story-telling, not science. Hancock keeps saying he’s not a archeologist, yet wants to be accepted as an expert by the archeological community. You can’t have you cake and eat it too.
@@CaptnCanada85You don’t work to prove the mainstream idea retard
Nah, Graham’s argument was destroyed here. Gobekli tepi is not evidence of a lost advanced civilisation. There’s no reason why hunter gatherers couldn’t have built it
There should be more conversations like this. The debate back and forth is great.
It's Hancock and Rogan arguing a conspiracy, and shooting down any other ideas 💡
❤😊 8:57
@@garry_thomasalways people like you who slap “conspiracy” onto something to discredit it instead of being open minded to both sides. Anatomically modern humans have been around for nearly 200,000 years, it wouldn’t be a stretch to theorize that there have been “advanced” civilizations before that have been lost to time.
@@PublicRestroom88show me the proof and I'll believe you. Until then, it's just wild speculation.
I'm so confused by Michael's argument or main point, it literally just sounds like he's just stirring shitpot of mainstream archaeology. It must be so frustrating to have a productive conversation in that field man 🙄
I thought that myself but after rewatching it for the 700th time I think he just wants some physical evidence, which actually makes sense. Although I’m with graham on this.
@@tadhgkeaveney4507 He wants trash and tools.. when the site hasn't even been near fully excavated. I don't lean to either side of their arguments, but that's pretty nonsensical.
@@BaldHeadedManc isn’t nonsensical at all, he wants hard evidence which at some point he will get, as I said I’m with graham on this
@@tadhgkeaveney4507check out uncharted X.
The proof is all over
We just need to look at it properly with proper context.
Eg. 1100 ton blocks and crazy math encoded in pyramids.
There are other sites attributed to later dates than gobekli tepe that look like it.
90% of the conversations in this field are dudes fangirling over literally anything
any random girl could ask "so what are you guys doing?"
And theyd have to sit trough an hour long explenation of some historical niche before another joins in with their own knowledge of the subject
Thats not even a joke, a co worker was successfully flirting with a girl right up until she asked him that question and we didnt even notive her leave
You hear any history relating topic and some historian just jumps up and joins the convo
Graham sounds more educated, well thought and well spoken than Michael Shermer and Graham is not a trained scientist. Meanwhile Michael Shermer seems to be trying very hard to dismiss Graham's theories with weak arguments and he was fighting a losing battle.
Almost like it’s a silly way to communicate what is true. Debates are fun, but judging what is true just because someone is more well spoken seems silly to me.
@@bisk1407 Debates are worse than that. There are various tactics that can be used, by a skilled and aggressive debater, to make your opponent appear weak or wrong or to force them into a corner which the audience may not see happening right before them.
Debates are more akin to salesmanship than discussion.
I would like to recommend Miniminutemen, a channel here on RUclips that made a multi part series discussing every point and episode Hancock made in his Netflix show and explains and debunks all of them. I was intrigued by Grahams points but watching Miniminutemen really put it in perspective how ridiculous some of his claims are.
@@kristofferlodesjo5781- "Miniminutemen"? Are you seriously recommending that garbage channel? Why not some low IQ TikTok influencer then, or some trash cable television channel like the History Channel, or The Learning Channel (TLC)? I'm just asking.
@@kristofferlodesjo5781 Miniminutemen did a very good job on some points, but i felt they, like this michael guy missed the point of some of grahams statement. Ultimatley, we know have buildings from atleast 9,000 bc. Miniminute men seemed to give very crap explanations on that point. Either Hunter Gatherer somehow how the extra man power to be able to have astronomers, and skilled labourers. which is unlikely considering evidence of agriculture was in mesopetamia atleast 13,000 years ago. Or there was a civilisation before the sumerians. in which case Graham would be off by a couple thousand years but still would be ultimatly right about a lost civilisation.
‘Maybe sometimes your skin is so thick, you can’t sense anything around you’ hahaha
buuurn 💀
I lol'd at that
It's clear that there skin is that thick!
savage
Yup 😆
Hunter gatherers have to move about so that they do not over hunt an area and run out of food.
They do not hunt one area long enough to carve 20ft long slabs out of stone, then carve faces and animals out of the stone in 3D, then move that stone and place it in a fashion that points to magnetic polar earth positions or astrological positions in the sky.
Aboriginals were hunter gatherers when the English came here to Australia.
They do not have megalithic sites.
They did not do carvings into or out of stone.
There are no pyramids in Australia.
There are no astrological cave paintings.
Nothing indicating knowledge of north or other compass direction.
Nothing indicating knowledge of earths circumferance or longtitude/latitude position.
Exactly
They do if they return annualy with the seasons.
Not to mention that hunter gatherers would not have had time to both Hunt and build this shit all at the same time. Someone clearly had to be feeding the laborers that were building this place. There is no way that they would be able to hunt and gather enough food to feed a workforce of this size. That’s not really how it works. When you hunt and gather you are mainly hunting and gathering to support you and your family for the next day or two. You’re not going to be able to kill and or gather and or prepare enough to feed more than that at a time on a daily basis. This means they must of had a surplus of food which means they had agriculture.
You're actually wrong about Aboriginals, they were excellent and I mean excellent trackers and part of the reason was because they had a very good knowledge of what was North, South, East and West.
There's actually an Aboriginal language that doesn't have the words 'left' or 'right' in it instead they use West and East, your 'west' hand and your 'east' hand, and it would chance depending on whether your hand really was facing East or West and it's thought their language developed this way just so they would have such a good knowledge of direction and again is part of what made them some of the best trackers in the world.
How do we know they were such good trackers? Englishmen would use them to track escaped Aboriginals and they were very impressed by them.
Its a mistake to compare Australian aboriginals to other hunter gatherer societies. The Egyptians of the old kingdom were capable of far greater things than other societies of the same time for example. It is also a mistake to assume that a hunter gatherer society cannot produce a sustainable food surplus. it's possible that these primitives had methods of gathering food that far surpassed societies of the time, just like old kingdom construction engineering was peerless in their era. Further study is needed or you're just making assumptions.
I love these debates. America needs more of this.
America needs less of this, and an education in logical argumentation. This is retarded.
Cyance lol what exactly do you consider to be “logical” this is peer review in action.
i don’t mean to be rude, but this may be what he’s saying; people aren’t exposed to fair debate and critical thinking-‘real’ knowledge is given to you in school and that’s it.
it’s a stunted way of thinking to only consider total factual stuff limiting yourself and the convo. it almost stopped at the point they realized he dug his heels in almost for the sake of being a skeptic.
i agree with you however in that this wasn’t that great especially the full version watch the clip or full one with SCHOCH and rogan. good luck and have a nice day.
hell yeah
Nick Nack i said in action. he’s a phd working out a scenario, a theory of course it’s not factual or guaranteed, a lot of science isn’t. it is however, important we DISCUSS things and not LIMIT ourselves.
@Nick Nack searches for entirely new ways of understanding and exporing unknown topics is helped by outside the box thinking. Just limiting any possible assumption to those already existing until you have overwhelming evidence otherwise is going to limit your potential for learning. Plenty of historians, archeologists included, get stuck trying to make any new evidence fit into existing concepts and theories and limit their ability to expand universal knowledge by staying within those limiting mental parameters. Guys like Einstein were famous for thought experiments that created new ideas and then seeking evidence to support them, rather than just looking at existing facts and analyzing g them from the standard viewpoint. My general point is it doesn't even matter if Graham is right or wrong, his proposals and ideas are worthwhile in the general pursuit of universal knowledge. Failed scientific theories still advance knowledge, and can often inspire new ways of thinking about other problems.
We have civilizations today that still live like hunter gatherers. Why couldnt there be different peoples at different levels of development in the past?
Ignore the comments, I know what u mean,. Totally Agree
In 1950's, men were the professional, made the money, to support family.
Women got married, stayed home and had babies....except one that went to Harvard, then Cornell Law, and then to be Supreme court Justice.
There are always outliers.
@Nick Nack Technically there are "civilization" living today with Hunter gather culture. Civilization is just a way to describe man made environment, there are plenty of Amazon tribes and island locked civilization that don't have modern cultures.
Great point. If one were to only find proof of European civilization dating back to the Medieval period, alien archaeologists would assume humanity was an awful lot stupider than they would if they were to discover an Arabian or Asian civilization dating to that time lol
@Nick Nack nitpicking. I get that.
@ " In this broad sense, a civilization contrasts with non-centralized tribal societies, including the cultures of nomadic pastoralists, Neolithic societies or hunter-gatherers, but sometimes it also contrasts with the cultures found within civilizations themselves. "
If you look at NYC and Afghanistan, you’d wouldn’t think they’d be in the same world, let alone the same year in 2021. Whatever was there 12,000 years ago, lived like that and given the environment and the way the world has changed it has preserved everything the way it is. Certain parts of the world lived what seemed like different time frames. Not sure if that makes sense
Same argument by me too. We assume that people were at same level of progess all over the world 12000 yrs ago. This should be debated.
@@kshelley121 You don’t even need to think about Afghanistan. There are currently many tribes in South America, Africa, Indian Ocean etc. who live way more primitively than the peoples of Göbekli Tepe.
@@ELVIS1975T Yes. Hopefully archaeologists will one day acknowledge that a very advanced civilization existed centuries ago
While Michael Schermer raises some decent points, his general closed-mindedness on this topic amazes me, especially when he says a cave painting is more impressive/challenging than the largest megalithic structure known to mankind today.
@Nick Nack the organization of the workforce, education system and the technology to feed and house large number of workers on site transport materials knowledge of astrology ect, ect... To build this, is ridiculous to compare with cave drawings with a sloppy 3d effect.
@Nick Nack sloppy sketchy drawing, I would be ashemed of trying to make the point he tried to make. He got mocked, for good reason.
@Nick Nack I don't know about Hancock or his ancient high civilisation claims.
But what I know is the comparison between the skills and cognitive abilities needed to fingerpaint an animal on the wall of a cave (very sloppily) and the skills and knowledge required to train, feed, house thousands of workers to build an enormous temple, moving 30 foot rocks in the process, is laughable.
@Nick Nack I saw the video of the site where they show what they have excavated up to now, and how it's only 5% of all the site. The enormous sculpted columns, with engraved 3d depictions of their 10 Gods. This was a bit more complex and sofisticated than what hunter gatherers were known to be able to do to say the least. And far more impressive than the lascaux drawings, and I'm French and I have visited the lascaux caves.
@Nick Nack I have a feeling, like the other guy in the video, that you have no understanding of how collosal construction work is done and what is needed in terms of organisation to pull it off.
I also have a feeling that you are not genuine, and you have an agenda.
It boggles the mind to see someone argue that a 3d carving of a feline on a 30 foot man made column for example, is at the same level of complexity than the lascaux drawings. It's beyond ridiculous. It's like comparing the iPhone with Morse code transmitters.
And then you try to save face by going with "it's artistically on the same level". Well that my friend is subjective, and is not the topic of the matter.
You just have no arguments, and you try to make an impossible case to try to refute or dismiss massive new evidence that doesn't fit your agenda (it seems).
I love when David makes a perfect example of what Graham is saying, in an attempt to refute it. . It is 100% a great explanation for how these two key technologies came about simultaneously in one generation.
'academia' is toast these days - 'copper chisels' ????....... 'pounding stones' ????....... 'tombs'????.......... nobody is buying this nonsense anymore
Michael started by saying there is "no evidence to your claim so it is not true" then goes "There is no evidence so my claim is true". rules for thee but not for me
The dude in the blue showed up like he beamed into the starship enterprise...
I wanted to thumb up this comment but it s at 100! N that just hits harder💯
I think it’s entirely possible that advanced civilizations rose & fell throughout the eons that we have no proof of.
Definitely. But we do have proof all over this planet, the Sphinx, Gobekli, all the citys and stone works along the coastlines under water off of many countries. Etc.....
Sandman Austin True but I mean even earlier then those civilizations.
@@RenR70 I agree 100% pretty much proven beyond a doubt that the Sphinx is 12,000 years old minimal. The early dynastic Egyptians said in their writings that they where a legacy of a early civilization ( zepteppy) . The plausibility of Atlantis. So if we have been around for 200,000 to 300,000 years as modern homo sapiens how many times have we climb to a advanced (more or less then today) civilization and wiped out by, comet/ meteor, plague, nuclear/weapons of mass destruction , etc.... and started over again.
Not much is going to last for 20, 30, 40 100 Thousand years except stone.
Sandman Austin True, every time we think we found the oldest civilization we find something older & will continue to do so.
We came from Mars. Fact!
The reason Randal Carlson is silent for the majority of the podcast is because he knows more than the other three combined.
You're absolutely right about that.
He speaks only when absolutely necessary, no more.
He is in fact Gandalf XD
Sir, you must be smoking crack. Randal didn’t put forward anything of interest or anything to spark an intelligent thought. I’m sure he’s a clever guy, but he only said things which go without saying or was of no use to the discussion. Watch his segment again, he’s trying to sound clever with technical jargon rather than be real and straight to the point like Hancock.
@@axelwengrud6790 or maybe Leonardo reincarnated.
Your dad and his weird friends talking in the living room while you fall asleep on the couch
Damn, I can feel the tension in the debate 3 yrs later
They plan a rematch on Zoom
Joe keeps mentioning how "we know it was humans" lmao he wants to believe aliens did it so bad
🤣🤣🤣
Haaha
The Göbekli Tepe used recycled biodegradable materials not metals! LOL from the guy who thought read and writing was not advancement! And doesnt understand how science works and doesnt like how science works!🤦♂️🤣
BELIEVE MY BASELESS CLAIMS! HE SAYS! 🤦♂️🤣
LOL
In today’s world we can deny the exist less.
Why do all these skeptics always think that builders are going to spend probably their entire life building one of the most significant structures ever made on the planet and then just leave their shit scattered around everywhere like they’re not gonna clean up when they’re done.
Because historical finds show a pattern of not cleaning up
What that other guy said, it's because when you look through a lot of big structures you find little bits here and there. A broken handle, or some guy dropped his old junky chisel down a hole and didn't want to climb in to get it back, or they find a stone hammer split into 10 pieces that they can piece back together and get a reliable idea of what it was, etc.
It might be that these people simply didn't do it that way, but that would be kinda unusual.
@@davidj8321 and history also constantly changes. History also tells us that we were loin cloth cave dwellers until like 5k years ago and started building gigantic near impossible structures and then got worse at it as we went.
One of my personal theories about ancient civilizations is the reformability of metal. I suspect that people all throughout history would find metal from some older civilization and melt it down and reuse it because it is easier to reform an old metal tool than it is to excavate new metal. Clay pottery as well can be reused, just smash the pots to dust and let them sit in water for a few months and you have fresh clay. Even if it took a couple years, it would still be a huge source of reusable clay to have a pit somewhere soaking old clay objects. Also, things like wood and leather, they can be taken to make new things, and wood can always be burned. So I think that they could have easily had all these things, but in the eons since many people have come in and picked apart the reusable materials until there is nothing left.
Incredible point, as weird as it may sound primitive technology on youtube(the channel) always talks about reusing old pottery to either reinforce bad clay or as a way to just have more potting clay and credits many many ancient techniques from all over the world and it wouldn't be a stretch to say the same for another reusable material that's difficult to find
That's a good point, and we know that has certainly happened to some extent over the ages. One example that comes to mind: there used to be a lot of iron on the Coliseum in Rome, but it was stripped off and made into weapons during times when Rome was under siege, and they never bothered to put it back on again. Throughout most of known history, the norm has been to repair something rather than throw it away. Only now have our manufacturing processes gotten efficient enough that it makes sense to create something new rather than repair something old.
Wow. Yah that’s a great point I didn’t even think of. U could be on to something there!
random: good morning
Shremer: I dont really agree..
I usually say "Grand rising".
And he'd be correct.
@@kendonato1887 lol
Where’s your tools?
random: good morning
Hancock: It was the Atlanteans...
I can’t believe my guy in the blue was able to hold his tongue for 18 minutes
So you found the first LEGO blocks ok
Yo was I the only one tripping on where he came from💀😂
His name is Randall Carlson. Very interesting guy. He doesn’t step in as archaeology isnt his profession. He’s a geologist. Listen to his podcast with Joe rogan 1v1 - you won’t regret it!
I was like one what’s he doing there. Is this clip a merger?
LMAO I read this and thought you were referring the main guy and was reading comments when suddenly Randal: “IT SEEMS TO ME...”
Lol I go holy shit! Where do you come from?!
My kids can paint but I'll be damned if they can build a structure out of stone
mindfuk your kids are just stupid.
My kids could make megalithic structures since they were four.
Your kid is too dumb to play with blocks? Lol.
Even with the internet and modern day tech I would be surprised if laymen who usually hunt or do other stuff could build something like Gobekli Tepe if they just came together.
@timwins31 because he has to keep the narrative that the mainstream acheologists built, that civilization wasnt advanced until white people caught up and started building/stealing things. Anything before that point, "not advanced they were just cave idiots that accidentally made this stuff"
"U have to be so thick skinned that u can't sense anything else..."
Thick, just thick.
Dummy thicc
Yer mom said I was thik
Realist shit I’ve ever heard
Thick not Thicc, Has a different meaning in the UK
My ancestors were hunter gatherers just a few generations back and from what I know there was very little FREE time. As a 65 year old man who hunts, fishes and gathers from the land for fun, even with all the tech (jeep, gun with scope, boat and four wheeler), to feed, clothe and shelter a family of four would take a considerable amount of time from the day. If they were agricultural and the climate was as volatile as stated, then crop failures would not allow them enough food to support the workforce. Logic would dictate they did both and maybe had to adapt their methods as the climate varied.
You are not factoring in the elder members of those groups, they had more time to plan and discover how to do things like our society today. Full-time scientists are less than 1% of the population. Most inventions are made by a SINGLE MAN, then everybody else learns to use the invention. Get it. The Maya calenders, like all of them, were developed by the priests. They had time every night to sit there and watch the stars.
I was thinking the same thing. Hunting takes more time than going to store. You can’t just drink water unless it’s pure of bacteria. So they’d have to heat up the water. Fishing always takes time and patience;maybe they had a net.
You forget that not everyone was busy. The priests in Mayan society came up with their amazing calendar. It must have been the same at gobekli tepeh. Think about these days, scientists spend so much time on fusion and cern collider because the rest of us work to provide for all the basic needs of everyone.
boomer understanding of time in full display
you're so far removed from your hunter gatherer ancestors that they wouldn't even recognize you as the same species, chill grandpa
@@claudesully you just proved my point that boomers don't understand time passage, thanks!
I could entertain Shermer's skepticism up until 23:25 when he compares cave paintings to megoliths
He wasn't comparing megoliths to cave paintings., he was referring to the art work on the megoliths to the cave paintings.
@@Leeside999 Yeah which even then is a huge effin leap.
@@cordovalark5295 not necessarily, its just another form of art
There are "advanced civilizations" living on the same planet as "hunter gatherers" today. It is a fact. Why is it so hard to believe it hasn't been so for a very very long time. Thank you Joe Rogan for sharing your experiences.
I agree
... Because the advanced civilization you speak of has advanced and evolved throughout the ages, and it has been historically documented. To suggest their was a civilization that is comparably advanced just “in different ways” is absurd. Its a claim that would fundamentally rewrite human history, and he offers zero evidence to back it up other than the existence of a few Megaliths.
Because there would be some physical evidence of said “advanced civilization”. Such a large and advanced group of people living on the earth for a “very very long time” would have left something behind. For fucks sake we can find dinosaur skeletons from 65 million years ago. And for some weird reason we can’t find any evidence of some advanced human civilization from 12,000 years ago? That apparently was super advanced and adept at all social organization and society. Give me a fucking break
Perhaps all traces are gone because it's submerged under water. Remember, the coast was further out to sea on all the continents. Look at Google maps, the lighter shade of the sea off the coasts would be above sea level. The amount of land lost was equivalent to Asia and Europe combined. 85% of the world's population live on the coast. The flood, including the massive change in climate would've stifled agriculture, displaced survivors, and great cities and ports of trade would be submerged overnight. Also what if the civilization that thrived understood the balance of nature, and that their form of a funeral was to bury the body completely naturally so that the energy could be returned to nature. Obviously they were organized and advanced enough to build all of the ancient sites we see today, they probably had a much more structured society and sound culture that allowed them to flourish. The survivors would be people living in the woods, or small villages, less educated, more isolated, and now trying to figure out to survive. Humanity took a huge 2 steps back.
@@arthurnevin1963 imo there is a lot of evidence, egypt being one, tiahuanaco other, coasts of india with giant citys, etc a point that i want to make is as humans we built upon the old, mexico city being in top of tenotchitlan, some pyramids under churchs and vegetation, etc rome a top ancient rome, egypt laberynth in hawara being told by herodotus as a better masterpiece than the giza, wich is still under sand at the top the rome built stuff etc(egyptologyst dont event talk about that, the 2008 group that found it was "fired" and his research was stopped and cancel), grecce, france, peru, etc, they all have in some kind kepping building a top old roads, old houses, repair them, etc, like i said i think the evidence is there of an ancient and different history that we dont know and that it could change a lot of stuff, also the old guard being stubborn is impediment of more research.
This is prime JRE. His legendary casts with Hancock, Carlson and Trussell will never be recaptured.
Let us not forget Jones and Barvo
@@Jet_Rod_94 lol
Hancock is mostly a money man..He seems to have started out as a more genuine archeologist type, but flew into the americanized world of trendism. They create and analyze trends and then comes the DVDs.... Dollars. This is why we see that blend of postmodernism or a kind of neo-theosophy with more genuine interest in the ancient past. This is very bad because one ruins a whole subject this way.
@@KibyNykraft 🤦🤦🤦
The absence of evidence doesn’t mean an ancient lost civilization is existed, but we aren’t going to say one did simply because it’s possible.
It was hilarious when Randall started to speak. I had no idea he was even there.
Haha true
I'm not entirely done the video, but do they keep jumping around the fact that Gobekli Tepe is on an entirely different scale than anything chronologically close to it? If Gobekli Tepe was really built by advanced hunter-gatherers, then how come they, or other hunter-gatherers, fail to produce anything remotely like it for thousands of years? This can mean two things, either we need to do a lot more digging for structures around this time period, or there was a certain point of great advancement in our history, then they vanished and humanity slowly advanced from the ground up until where we are now.
That’s why Graham says “ we are a civilization with amnesia”
Randal Carlson said that there was probably a massive climate catastrophe around thar time as well. So my guess is that wiped out any evidence of the trash Shermer loves so much
But do you notice how Michael Schermer is more impressed with the paintings. He is ignoring the advanced skill it would take to build structures like that in that time period! If he admits it's impressive it no longer supports the narrative that ancient people were dim witted.
Because the lost civilisation was the first people who taught the hunter gatherers their skills. Suppose for a minute Atlantis was the civilisation that was lost, the survivors making their way amongst hunter gatherers in order to survive. As those survivors die off and the knowledge and teachings of the technology they had to cut stone generation to generation gets weaker we gradually lose a lost part of our history with knowledge that is also lost. Imagine someone out of nowhere one time taught you how to build a bike and put it all together. If you passed the knowledge down to your children and them to theirs and so on gradually the skill and knowledge that this first person had would be forgotten entirely. The real mystery is who were these people who taught the hunter gatherers to do this and what other knowledge did they have that was wiped out of existence? like Graham said, we really are a species with amnesia.
@@dnkys so we don't have the knowledge we use to have? that's scary to think we can just lose knowledge in a blink of an eye.
18:16
*a higher dimensional being joined the chat *
Approximately eleven thousand [11,000] of your years ago, the first of the, what you call, wars, caused approximately forty percent of this population to leave the density by means of disintegration of the body. The second and most devastating of the conflicts occurred approximately one oh eight two one, ten thousand eight hundred twenty-one [10,821] years in the past according to your illusion. This created an earth-changing configuration and the large part of Atlantis was no more, having been inundated. Three of the positively oriented of the Atlantean groups left this geographical locus before that devastation, placing themselves in the mountain areas of what you call Tibet, what you call Peru, and what you call Turkey.
From what I understand, all gobekli teppe proves is that somehow humans figured out how to make a giant structure. This only shows that they were architecturally more developed than we thought. There are two possibilities here, either they figured it out in their own or someone taught them. On graham’s argument on why couldn’t this technology have been passed on by an advanced civilization to these hunter gatherers? Well that theory needs some evidence to gain support. Evidence like drawings or sculptures dedicated to this knowledge transfer. Or some proof of ancient technology which was advanced. Of which there is none. You can’t very well disprove ghosts but in order to believe in ghosts you need strong proof of ghostly activity. Similarly to claim that an advanced civilization existed, you need strong proof for this “advancement”.
Also, graham hancock is deliberately vague on his definition of advanced. What exactly makes them advanced? What is the criteria for this advancement? If you can’t define that then how do you know what kind of evidence to look for?
Where's the evidence that shows a linear evolutionary trajectory of the technological advances made by hunter-gatherer bands in the Southeastern Anatolia Region of Turkey?
If it is thought that much more of the construction is buried much deeper under the ground , then the tools are likely to be found deep down the floor area. The argument of not finding any tools should be invalidated because no one, even builders twelve thousand years ago wouldn't store tools around the top floor of any building.
My guess is that there must be another significant area chock full of tools and equipment (I see no reason as why they'd destroy the tools, maybe only conceal them, possibly in another hill/cave)
ruclips.net/video/jKQvBOhSm6s/видео.html here’s the truth how people build stuff in the past
So true. They need to excavate the entire structure.
Dig deeper and find the tools then. His point was that tools haven't been found YET, so don't ASSUME they will be found somewhere else. Literally the only evidence is there are big rocks in place, which we know primitive people are able to do, so why is it necessary that an advanced civilization lived there?
The argument of not finding tools is ridiculous, if they left the area they took the tools! or the tools were destroyed through centuries.
'Where are the metal tools?"
Interesting question. At the "building of King Solomon's Temple," it is said in the Entered Apprentice degree, "there was not heard the sound of an axe, hammer, or any tool of iron."
Gravity control.
Graham is unbelievably articulate with his words. Immediately grasps your attention
Yeah he's got an accent, I guess
Most authors are good with words
yahhh a true con man
@@nachomagallanico The most effective con men and women have careers in advertising, public relations, television broadcasting and hold high office in government. Graham Hancock is an amateur in comparison.
@@joecaner a real con man that sells books, lots of books, making millions giving the fake image of a Maverick, while he’s just spreading lies and speculation. He has the real profile of a con man. In addition he really seems intellectually dishonest, of this I’m not sure, but he seems to be erudite enough to realise that his hypothesis lacks completely of substance, hence he plays the victim and discredits a whole field of research… so feeling egocentric. And then you listen to his fans defending him like the leader of a cult… cause he reveals the truth hidden by the établissement. Real con man….so full of shit
And as of today, July 7th, 2024, we find out that the WEF has taken charge of Gobekli Tepi and HALTED excavations. Wow.
Jab jab jab UPPERCUT!!! And then... BLUE SANTA!!!
😆😆😂😂😂😂
This guy gives me a vibe like he's the spokesperson for modern archeology and downplaying something they have to pay for
sean clements huhh?
@Alexander Supertramp no they aren't. he's playing devil's advocate and ignoring all of the evidence we have of lost ancient cultures
@@leeonardodienfield402 what evidence? Hancock surely didn't produce a single one.
here's the modern archaeologucal consensus as far as i'm aware:
were there an ancient cultures? ofcourse, homo sapience is like 300 000 years old.
were some of them lost? ofcourse, majority of them. most of them didn't make any shit that would last long enough to be found by us.
were they more advanced than us? nope.
@@swancrunch no one has claimed they were as advanced as us in peer review, just advanced. You are proving yourself wrong... academia refutes the possibility of high culture, society and agriculture. That is the point. So you agree with Graham, not current historical science.
The evidence of a global catastrophe is irrefutable at this point. Greenland oxygen isotope data from ice cores prove this, it coincides with the younger dryas layer which is itself hard evidence of a very recent catastrophe.
The debate is whether or not "recorded history" was really just past knowledge and culture instead of springing up out of no where with the advent of cities, writing and agriculture. Do you even know what this theory presents or are you just repeating what you've heard from others? Sounds like the latter. Even mainstream journals are publishing data on the black mat layer and the extinction even that is seen there. Previously it was "fact" that humans, specifically the Clovis Indians caused 75% of north American mega fauna to die off. That is because of people like you, who don't look at any of the data objectively and instead assume we've got it right already. Very sad.
@@leeonardodienfield402 , let's have some structure in our arguement. i'm not entirely disagree.
1) define "advanced". what advances did this culture have over our usual understanding of hunter-gatherer society of the time?
what is the evidence for that?
2) Randall's catastrophe thing is convincing. i haven't seen much material to the contrary, but admittedly hadn't research it as thoroughtly as i should. although it feels like he can be under heavyweight case of confirmation bias (looking at his numerology wackery). would really like to hear him debate with some disagreeing professional.
3) how did i prove myself wrong?
I'm half way through, and I'm not even sure I understand what they're arguing about.
Hancock says they were 'advanced', Shermer asks him what he means by advanced, Hancock says "well, they created the megaliths at Gobekli Tepe", Shermer says that doesn't mean they were advanced. Rinse and repeat.
caz lab that sums it up lol
I don't get shermers argument. They were able to build this thing 2,000 years before the pyramids with no discernible method to do so. It's not his way of advanced meaning writing and tools and shit.
MrYouarethecancer I think it is more like 7,000 years.
One guy says, "hey hunter gatherers were more capable than we thought." The other says, "There existed an ancient ultra advanced civilization though I have no evidence I know I am correct."
they didnt know how to plant a seed or breed chickens. all animal bones there were wild/undomesticated. civilization requires agriculture
If Shermer is correct, we are to believe that a group of hunter/gatherers stopped roaming while looking for food, and built one of the most impressive stone structures ever constructed. The length of the project and the number of people it would have taken to build such a structure would have required them to settle in one place. This would require them to farm and build dwellings to remain at the site and build the structure. I also don’t think that hunter/gatherer groups traveled in enormous groups of people. It is obvious that if primitive people built this with primitive tools it would have required lots of people to do it. For me, all points to advanced civilization.
Doesn't mean all the hunter-gatherers had to stop hunting and gathering, just that they supported some sort of artist caste who worked on the site day in day out, and ate what was given to them.
But there is no evidence for an advanced civilization. That is the main problem with Hancock. He has no evidences whatsoever for his theories.
@@DonRicoKing I think that's the point. We can't find the evidence that archeologists want, except for the structures themselves. No one can explain how it was done, which in a sense is enough evidence to question the "mainstream" theories. GT is a new discovery which massively questions previous assumption/schools of thought. There is literally no hard evidence to suggest the ancient Egyptians built the great pyramids, yet everyone has been told therefore thinks they did. It opens up a whole load of questions that may contradict the establishment of archeology who have made their livelihoods on previous schools of thoughts, which is what we are all taught growing up.
Sometimes the lack of evidence is all the evidence one may need
@@dp3699 "We can't find the evidence that archeologists want" that is what annoys me. You re suggesting that there is a mafia consisting of Archeologists. But that is not true at all. Archeologists are always extremely thrilled, then somebody makes a new discovery.
@@dp3699 "No one can explain how it was done, which in a sense is enough evidence to question the "mainstream" theories. GT is a new discovery which massively questions previous assumption/schools of thought. There is literally no hard evidence to suggest the ancient Egyptians built the great pyramids, yet everyone has been told therefore thinks they did." That is not right at all. There are mathematical and chemical methods to calculate when the building of the pyrmaids startet and ended. How they were build is a different story. It is true, nowadays there is no final theory on how they were build. There are different theories based on experiments and findings at the pyramids. There are also scientific scrolls. But with time the picture is getting clearer. For example some scientist found, that there was a now dried out waterway, which they use to transport the stones to the building site.
The world needs for open talk like this and less controlled speech from investors. Thanks Joe.
Klaus Schmidt contributed more to this conversation than anybody else despite being dead for three years.
10 years or something isn’t it
I am an Engineer that works with GIS and completed my doctorate in Megalithic Steucrures. I've been to Gobekli Tepe, Karan Tepe, several other Tepes in Turkey and several Tells in Syria and Lebanon (which are older that GT). The constant return to the cave paintings is extremely Euroscebtric....and there are his motives. Several academic papers have been written on the subject...the latest from the University of Istanbul in December 2022...Archeology is coming around.
cave paintings are as impressive as moving a 20 ton rock pillar from the quarry site? what the hell is this dude thinking?
Realistically , using our own culture as a measure, we didn't do it until the 1300's so yeah it's a lot than moving rocks.
You hold writing on a higher level, but as he said, maybe oral transfer was the way they communicated. You can’t say either moving stones or writing is the more intelligent or impressive work. It works both ways
Tony Dwaine I wasn't talking about writing I was talking about the ability to create the illusion of 3 dimensions on 2 dimensional surfaces...Thats why in our culture it occur about 5,000 after moving rocks.
Ethan Wanamaker disingenuous at best
Michael Stead how can you say that when they are stating hunter and gatherers were painting 30000 years ago... I mean? doesn't matter what culture did it, man figured it out long ago, it's pretty primative to rub color on something and go from there, the 3d was stone carving and that was not the argument, it was painting in general vs carving stone.
Graham's story about the New Scientist magazine is pretty revealing of how his brain works. He made it sound very ironic and vindicating, but if you listen closely, all that's happened is he saw the cover story that was published and decided in his head that his book "essentially" said the same thing. "Civilization is older and more mysterious than we thought" is a pretty broad/generic idea and it wouldn't even necessarily be remarkable if Graham's critics published the same phrase that Graham had published without realizing it, but just to reiterate, they did not publish the same phrase because Graham never published that phrase, he just retroactively used the phrase to self-describe his book and declared himself a victory. Finally, Graham's book is not "essentially" about civilization being older and more mysterious. The essential message of his book, which is much more specific and is written in the TITLE AND SUBTITLE, is that a higher civilization influenced all other lesser civilizations that came after it.
Graham Hancock:
"Jamie can you pull that up"
Raheel Ansari Jamie:”......” lol
Lmao
ruclips.net/video/C8bJJnTOK0Q/видео.html
One of the best podcasts of all times
Yep
Bearded guy pops out of nowhere like Gobekli Tepe
Truly brilliant debate. Joe was excellent at keeping things going fairly and impartially.
Felt differently, thought joe was alot on Hancocks side. In fairness the Shermer he raises alot of questions that Hancock had no answer for
@@ConScanlon I agree. Hancock's attempt to explain away the lack of tools and writing at the site was weak. 'They just decided not to use tools' is not particularly compelling and is the opposite of what an advanced civilisation would do. If I had knowledge and capability to make a job orders of magnitude easier then I would use it.
@@markbodle6339 i mean, the city was burried, right? why should there be tools, clothing or anything if it deliberately was burried as stated by the head archeoligist?
But i agree: Graham really had a weird undertone that was very aggressive. I usually like him a lot but here he just seem to be offended.
Love this type of debate, million times more enjoyable and informative than toxic Twitter
@@TwoBaze lol he was coming after his book
I've seen this episode in full a few times and always catch myself on the clips. Every episode with Randal and Graham is worth watching. I would and do recommend it.
I miss when JRE was on RUclips! Those were the golden years!!
"Where are the tools?" Dude, I had a 10mm socket that I used once and I swear it just freaking EVAPORATED the moment I set it down, never to be seen again. Ever. GONE.
On a more serious note, Rust eats metal shockingly fast. Without protective coatings, anything made of metal can be transformed into soil in just a decade.
I had a 10mm disappear in my truck 😂
Seriously. We're talking about a 12 THOUSAND year old civilization. It was considered ancient 11k years ago lol. Think of how many civilizations could have come and gone in that time. Any tools left behind would've been taken and repurposed a thousand times over. And they've only uncovered 2% of the ruins. Crazy.
they wouldnt have used metal
@@hha8356 you mean wood and rope rott even faster!? Yep! 👍
@@martin09091989 stone
Shermer will change his position on any argument in order to be a contrarian
Aaron Tuplin Joe Rogan is my guy, but he is pushing the “some human” agenda so hard I know he’s been given direction. How does Joe know it WAS humans???
Totally agree. I think Shermer got destroyed.
Shermers position is just defending what the scientific community has agreed on. Hancock is the contrarian on all of these topics of ancient civilizations
Banks Jay lol I see you keep saying this... I can’t tell if trolling or just really want there to be aliens....... hmmmmm
To be fair, that is what skeptics do though. Make the strongest possible argument against an idea and expose flaws/weaknesses. Its like socratic dialogue but with more people.
The excavated parts of Gobekli Tepe are the younger portions. The unexcavated parts are older, as shown by the progression of dates. With the discovery of Karahan Tepe & other Tas Tapele sites being proved to be older than the excavated parts of Gobekli Tepe, it's interesting to note that excavations have stopped at Gobekli Tepe. It's almost as if mainstream archaeologists are afraid to continue, for fear of what they may find.
so fucking idiotic. it already proved their sorry asses to be ignorant closed minded asses.
They're afraid to find out that Noah's flood was real. They're devout atheists.
I think you may need to research more. The flood mentioned in the bible is the same flood mentioned in Sumerian writings & further evidenced by the world - wide floods mentioned by other cultures. There is geophysical eveidence of this flood. The story of Noah is quite obviously the story recounted in the Epic of Gilgamesh, which pre - dates the biblical story. Archaeologists aren't devout atheists, just dependent on the mainstream narrative of archaeolgical dating currently upheld by such people as Hawas, who is happily skulking around Egypts most ancient sites, often under cover of darkness, interfering & quite possibly removing any evidence he finds that does not support him & his theories & espoused timeline.
@@mikeoxlong3676
Noahs flood was probably just the end of the ice age melt water 1a and 1b
r. i. p. Claus Schmit, who did the work to show us our history in Anatolia, Turkey. Fascinating stuff.
Imagine beings the guys who built the gobeklitepe.12.000 years later some guy compares your work to shitstains on cavewalls.
CastionLoL fool
I died
architecture vs painting, eiffel tower vs mona lisa
these were people who didnt know how to plant a seed or breed chickens. all of the bones deposited there are wild and undomesticated.
wiremessiah
undomesticated bones? That must be their dinosaur ancestry right?
How would you even guess the life of a chicken? How does the existence of a fence show up in bone samples?
I’m leaning towards believing hancock on this one because in order for them to have built something like that, they would’ve needed a large society with an established hierarchy which seems to indicate it was an intelligent culture
Rather than a hunter gatherer tribe, perhaps even a confederation of tribes?
@@thehauntedstream7206 confederation is likely. We’ll never know the names of the hero’s of that age. Our ancestors and relatives
@@thehauntedstream7206 a confederation of tribes can be a civilization
@@ap6480 Absolutely my friend
@ 0:30 "perhaps a decision was made not to use metal..."
Sorry, I couldn't stop laughing at Graham from that point.
Gobekli Tepe is quite a bit more advanced than the primitive cave paintings of Italy. Hard to imagine a bunch of nomadic hunter-gatherers suddenly learned advanced rock quarrying and sculpting techniques at such an early date. But it seems humanity has had pockets of more high-minded peoples going back 10s if not 100s of thousands of years. I think that wherever the Sumerians suddenly and inexplicably inherited their advanced civilization from, there is probably some link with Gobekli Tepe and other such yet-to-be-discovered sites in that part of the world.
Exactly what I said. Hunter gatherers don’t jjst wake up one day and know how to build the pyramids and GT and things like it. Just doesn’t happen
I agree with you on this, which is why I think it is regarded as a marvel.
@@harveyblevins74 I have a personal theory that certain sites of dense and consistent resources would sometimes bring multiple smaller hunter gatherer populations together, and I think a result of that established regional conglomeration was those multiple cultures coming together to build certain small cultural hubs to share those resources.
I mean from what we assume hunter gathers would fight each other over pockets of land like this, but what if that wasn’t always the case, and some realized that if there was enough to go around everyone could benefit from it?
Over time as the cultures would become more and more homogeneous, the sight would gain greater and greater cultural significance and grow larger, and as it grew larger more and more people would spend time around it leading to people spending time around large amounts of natural resources in turn to possible leading advancements in agriculture as population density would inevitably rise.
I think this site in particular was a early-mid stage of this scenario happening
@@themotions5967 or they were playing a huge war game simulation and they kept there flag there in a game Of capture the flag
The way Graham talks is seriously just so incredibly satisfying. He just knows his shit and he knows he knows it's fucking LEGIY
"SCREW TRASH AND TOOLS WE GOT GOBEKLI TEPE" classic 💯
"Hunter-gatherers did this" LOL, guys while we hunt and gather scarce food, let's play with these monoliths as we have nothing better to do...
Christian Ortaliz hunter gatherers still around today , shermer doesn't realise this it would be like asking them to construct the Eiffel Tower lol so when gobekli Tepe was conctructed there obviously was more advanced civilisations around
@@REDIGAMINGGLITCHWORX exactly, Shermer is just basically an overpaid troll for saying that
Hunter gatherers built stone henge and many other Neolithic sites. Why is it implausible that they would also build gobekli Tepe?
@@johnmartin4233 Technically the builders of stone henge were neolithic -- in other words, in the intermediate stage between modern "civilization" and hunter-gatherers. They had agriculture, but no cities or formal systems of government, or modern division of labor. The latest additions to stone henge were made in the early bronze age.
The builders of gobekli tepe were also neolithic. They were in the stone age, but had plant and animal agriculture. Sedentary, village-dwelling people. No writing system to speak of, no pottery, no metalworking. Agriculture yes, but that's hardly what Hancock is claiming when he says, "advanced civilization." If there were cities 10,000 years ago, we'd know it.
Hunter-gatherers had summer and winter camps, following seasonal food sources. Gobekli Tepe was one such seasonal camp.
"Screw trash and tools, we've got Gobekli Tepe, it confronts us..." EXACTLY!
amazing
1) trees planted on site
2) roads pored on top of site
3) money over uncovering and learning about the intended use of the site
4) W.H.O involved
5) Suspected that people don’t want site uncovered
Why was there no metal? The place was intentionally buried. They took their damn tools with them.
Why are there no nuclear weapons at Gobekli Tepe? Simple - they took them with them.
Tony Trosclair take all your tools and go bury them. See if they are still there in 100 years. Now think Ten Thousand Years.
Bradley Scarbrough i guarantee a wrench would still be there.
Tony Trosclair
His point went right over your head...
I'm a metal detectorist. 100 years is nothing for metal tools to survive, even still be usable.
Michael Shermer chastises Hancock for theorizing about Gobekli Tepe instead of saying it's just a mystery while he does exactly the same thing (as does the orthodox scientific community). When you see this kind of hypocrisy, you know someone is defending an ideology.
Exactly!
I agree, however he's not creating a lost super advanced civilization to explain it, he's saying that we underestimated the capabilities of people at the time.
Mike literally says it's okay to theorize.
The claim that it was an advanced civilization is a much bigger leap than hunter gatheres were more capable than we assumed. Occam's razor would imply that the latter is more likely. Also extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And for the moment that's lacking. Because you could also say it was Aliens, and say well you are also speculating, but it's not the same is it?
@@thomasfoster7842 no he's not.
I could listen to Graham and Randall speak all day and night.
Before Gobekli Tepe, there was no evidence of large scale construction from that era. They have dug into cities and stopped digging because of the agreed timeline of civilization. In many sites it may be worth the time to dig a little deeper.