How do you feel about these semi-specific tier lists? Should we rank them in a general sense (it's possible that no card is S tier since these cards are niche), or should we rank them amongst themselves (this is S-tier equipment, but even the best equipment is mediocre). With a general list, most equipment are only good in Voltron giving them a B or C rating, but a specific tier list would put everything at S or A. Same question applies to card draw. Do you rank "white card draw" in its own category or against other card draw? Non-green ramp? Non-blue counterspells, etc etc. We try make the discussion engaging so you understand the nuances/caveats, but people still really fixate on a final letter grade, so we want to try to make it more accurate. Interested in your thoughts.
I prefer the compared to what they compete with ie saying this white draw is bad because a blue card is way better is poor. But saying almost every equipment is a B makes for a dull podcast rating wise anyway. I’d at least try mixing it up with the compared to themselves at least when such a niche group. Imagine a vehicle tier list where like one card gets a C and the rest get a D. It’s lame. This was… sorta similar.
I think a general rating is fine! Specifically how yall did it in this video really works! On a slight side note: Have y'all considered changing your rating scale slightly? I feel like Tomer is the only one using that specific definition, especially for cards between B and C. A slight retooling that wouldn't even change what you all have that much could be: S - In every deck, I can put it in its in. Budget or personal preference are the only reasons why I don't play it. A - Most decks will just be strictly better with this in. Not quite universal, but lack of synergy with the commander or again personal playstyle would be why I cut it. B - This card is good in a lot of decks, consider it most of the time but usually first on the chopping block when it comes to cuts C - Very good in narrow use or slightly less common deck archetypes but wouldn't fit in most decks. Say whelming wave? D - *I* Do not run unless for meme/troll/or jank reasons Obviously, these are just quick examples and for sure could be retooled!
I don't know if comparing to everything will lead to discussions as interesting as comparing cards in their niche where a given card can be useful (and thus merit a higher rating in a niche tier list). Doing a video on white card draw and putting everything as either a C or D doesn't feel instructive to me ?
I feel you need to do some things as specific. As if you do card draw you need to make it color specific. As it seems really silly to compare cards that won't be in your deck to cards that can be. Like rating white cards draw vs blue or green. If I was in blue or green I wouldn't need white card draw. Though I think you honestly can do both generic and specific. Like you could do a color list vs general list.
I like sword of the animist because it is an attack trigger not a combat damage trigger, so you just attack and ramp regardless if there are blockers or not.
crim when he sees sword of body and mind: "I know i could just mill you into some insane cards but think of the EMOTIONAL DAMAGE if i mill your win cons.
you definitely cannot reasonably give body and mind an A even if you love it because it just doesn't belong in a majority or even close to half the decks out there and the risk against graveyard based decks is wayyyy too high (and they're common decks). absolutely not a good card in most situations despite crims insistence lol
Suprised by Richard's evaluation; in the same way that Secret Rendevous *can* be used in either a political or situational way to where giving an opponent cards isn't a straight-up 100% of the time downside, I think sword of body and mind's mill isn't 100% of the time causing an opponent to retaliate with a powerful graveyard synergy.
@@thatepicwizardguy dauthy void walker style cards are what they are for. Its "draw 10 or something" for a lot of black/green or black/white decks. Its amazing. All swords have their niche. light and shadow and body and mind are similar.
In defense of Explorer's Scope: the two big arguments they proposed against it is Sword of the Animist and Sword of Hearth and Home. In paper, Explorer's Scope is around $0.25. The two swords are about $9 and $14 respectively. The swords might be guaranteed ramp, but at a 4 and 5 mana investment. Explorer's Scope has about 33% chance of grabbing a land every turn at 2 mana investment while also not hurting your budget. Also, no one is going to bother removing your Scope whereas Hearth and Home is certainly going to draw some attention. At the end of the day, it's not an amazing card, but it's cheap, effective, and flies under the radar.
I will chime in on this, one thing not mentioned is how undervalued people will see this, you drop this turn 1-2 people look at it, shrug and go OK, it flies under the radar, and no one wants to waste their removal on it. I found a similar reaction to Fervor, it does so little people undervalue it and don't waste their removal on it but it has incremental value, which allows it to stick around, maybe longer then a sword of the animist, or hearth and home.
@@JMon2021 Exactly. The reverse was their argument against Sinew and Steel as that draws attention and removal (player removal at that) your way. There is value to cards that don't read as anything special. Sure it's not going to give you a turn 2 win, but at a casual table I've made great use of cards like these. I'm surprised that you got a similar reaction for Fervor, though. I've never played against it, but I have played at tables with Fires of Yavimaya and Temur Ascendancy, and those were never undervalued. Maybe even overvalued sometimes. I would have imagined Fervor gets the same kind of response?
@@Muongoing.97c the few times I have dropped fervor, no one really bats an eye, and fervor lingered on the table for a while. This may be a product of my playgroup, or it's a response to other things on the table looking far scarier, not sure.
This is only infinite with Aurelia if you also already have some other infinite mana combo. Unless I'm missing something, it'll cost you 2 each combat to re-equip.
So sunforger for one is always played with mistfield plains which let's you recurring the same spell over and over again. Also there is a great draw spell. Valakute Awakening, unexpected windfall, and heartwarming redemption. It can also get flicker spells to get more value out of your creatures. There is also token production. Its more useful then Richard gives it credit for. Also its 5 mana to tutor and cast a 4 mana spell. Thats essentially 1 mana tutor for an instant. Also there is a 4 mana instant called Master warcraft that let's you choose which creatures attack and which ones block. This can kill a player or just wrath 2 players boards. And with mistfeild plains you can do that once per turn cycle. Its insane and does win games
Surprised Sinew and Steel was so low on the board. Had good protections from red burn and black removal and it blows up any player’s artifacts/planeswalkers not just the person you swung at. Also odd they didn’t do Fire & Ice.
We forgot to discuss Fire and Ice but we all rated it A. It's card draw and picks off utility creatures, we consider it in the top 3 swords along with Feast and Famine and Hearth and Home.
I was really hoping one of them would've made a crack about Sinew and Steel being the best one because you can blow up your own Sinew and Steel for playing Sinew and Steel
Being able to blow up anyone's stuff is the real bonus because it's fairly easy to hit someone and destroy someone else's stuff. Even if the protection isn't relevant to the attack, telling someone "if you let me hit you, I'll blow up that other player's artifact/planeswalker" will generally be enough to get through unless you are the target.
The thing they didn't mention about sinew and steel is that the protection colors are extremely relevant. Black probably has the most spot removal, which protection blanks, and while red has less spot removal, most of it's board wipes are damage based. In addition to that, you can actually run it in the red decks to make creatures survive your blasphemous acts or even hour of devastation.
Another aspect they didn't touch on is that these swords add utility that's missing from many colors at a reasonable rate. Destroy one artifact a turn is pretty bad in a deck running red or green, but sinew and steel is one of your better options for artifact hate in blue and black decks.
@@mattiet8904 Blue has ravenform and resculpt now, but they won't even put enchantment hate on a sword because red is so powerful that even having access to colorless enchantment hate on an equipment would make it too good. It would synergize with it's aggro strategy (the best strategy in commander) and absolutely dominate the meta.
As a budget-conscious player, I love Explorer's Scope. I really like how it can take lands off the top of my deck, thereby ramping me and potentially letting me draw more gas.
fully expected Tomer to pivot from "Swords, the most popular, iconic, and powerful equipment in magic the gathering" to "so we're going to start off with Sword of Kaldra"
One thing I don't see discussed about the Swords is in addition to protecting the equipped creature they also make it easier for the creature to deal dmg to the player which is required for the rest of the sword to matter. So the GW sword is not as good at saving your creature but it is among the best for allowing the equipped creature to connect. Imo, GW are the colors that tend to run the most creatures.
If I flip into godo in my winota deck, he always gets sunforger, and then sunforger casts chance for glory next turn, and that’s basically always gg. And sunforger’s good at grabbing spot removal or protection on its own if I draw it. Sunforger is one of boros’s few saving grace’s
Skullclamp is 100% A-S as soon as someone gets on the field with any amount of 1 toughness creatures, they come dangerously close to winning the game on the spot from my experience. me and my brother agreed to sideboard it out against eachother because games often came down to who could get skullclamp out first.
very true actually. I've actually seen enough games that have almost no creatures but are voltron where they EASILY win to know that you do not need a ton of creatures. the reality is almost nobody runs mass artifact removal, and mass removal in general isn't done very often. single target removal is very weak against voltron decks and chances are they are gonna one shot you right away if you're a threat (assuming they're swinging with their commander which is a typical strat).
Skeletons. All you need to voltron is skeletons. Most regenerate, some can get coughed back out of the graveyard, Black gives you some occasionally handy connective tissue, and Drudge Skeltons swinging for 16 will never not be funny, to say nothing for a skeletal snake.
Protection on the Swords are not just for targeted removal remember. DEBT Damage Equip/Enchant Block Target So basically white and green normally have the biggest armies. So GW sword is good for being unblockable
It feels like everyone that didn't like the swords conveniently ignored how unbelievably busted protection is lol "It's so hard to get through with combat damage!" Oh, if only there was a built-in way to give your creature unblockable 🤔
yeah... idk why that wasn't really emphasized. protection is actually fucking nuts ESPECIALLY on vigilance creatures who are just ALWAYS a combat threat. you could fully deny 1 or more players from going to combat against you because of a sword.
Skullclamp is a must removed if someone has it. It's utterly broken. The fact it's basically a repeatable 1 colorless mana village rites is huge. 2 cards on a dying trigger is insane. If you have teysa karlov that's 4 cards when something dies. I've used this card with 5 mana to draw 12 cards in a turn. How is that not strong?
But the tier system they use is about whether you want it in many decks or not. B is it's very good in an archetype, A is you want it in many decks, S is you want it in most decks. I don't think most decks can use Skullclamp well, so it wouldn't be S. As to many... sure there are some archetypes that want it but it's mostly aristocrats and go wide/tokens. I'd think it's A by their standards. That said they plaay very loose with their classifications, I mean Crim giving Body and Mind an A... even his arguments were about how in certain decks (the ones he plays, the card is good)
@@baconsir1159 I wouldn't say phyrexian or ashnods altar are specific to aristocrats, I use ashnods in many go wide decks like tokens as well. It generates tons of mana.
The biggest issue with this list is how you describe the tiers at the start. There's no equipment that's an auto-include everywhere and realistically pretty much nothing outside of maybe greaves, clamp and the best swords would even be A. I think it would work better as ranked as equipment rather than ranked against all other magic cards (in the theoretical framework of the letters).
I agree with this completely. To me, it's similar to creating a sorcery tier list but comparing it to all cards, including their instant counterparts. All equipment have an inherent downside and I bet every equipment has a creature/land/spell counterpart tht does the same thing and is probably better.
I also agree, I have a bit of an issue with these lists since the criteria for each tier is super arbitrary and I have seen these guys flip around their criteria for a tier and rate things based on that. I enjoy their discussion, but I feel they need to ditch the tier lists and just discuss popular cards, both in a vaccum and in comparison to other cards.
I would have loved to see Robe of Stars. I think if you are running white, this is a better version of greaves/boots (as long as you don't need haste). It offers more comprehensive protection.
i love that one, even though 2 mana can be a lot if you have to use it every turn, it gets around EVERYTHING, be it targeted, board wipe, destroy, exile, etc... and 2 mana is a lot better than recasting your commander for 2 more each time
I think there are times it can be better but I think it will generally be worse over many games because perpetually leaving up 2 mana is a pretty big ask.
We rated it on the sheet (B average). I don't think it's better than Greaves (way more mana-efficient, gives haste) but being able to protect the equipped creature and all attachments from everything if you have mana up is indeed sweet.
@@MTGGoldfishCommander I agree with B mostly because if you are in a voltron deck it's an auto include. It protects the commander as well as all the sweet gear it has on them. Though outside of voltron it's not that great as you aren't really protecting anything with it and you have to leave up mana.
I think sword of sinew and steel has the best protection duo though - red boardwipes and removal spells are mostly damage based and black has tons of spot removal too. Not to mention, I feel like I see a planeswalker every game at more casual tables.
Skullclamp I think is an S. Not because it goes in every deck but because the decks Skullclamp is good in it becomes the best card in the deck by far. So completely deck warping that I think it carries specific archetypes by its self
Yooo the slander on Sinew and Steel, run more Liquimetal Torque in your decks and you'll understand the power (Myr Landshaper is trying his hardest too)
I'm fine with A for the Boots and Greaves. They don't go in every deck. I have then in my Araumi deck because protection and Haste are very strong for her, but I don't run them in my Extus deck because I only cast my commander one game in three with that one, and they aren't even in my Cycling Zur deck because I only need him to get one Astral and the deck can function, and ramping him out on T3 is better than the Boots or Greaves.
I feel like no equipment can b s tier just because of the inherent downsides of equipment. The only one I would consider is Skullclamp because it can just win the game by itself, but even then it's use isn't ubiquitous enough to be s tier imo
Richard: Plays tons of Ardinn-Rogahk decks Seth: has been playing tons of Boros Tomer: Kaldra fanboy Crim: hey guys did you hear about this new artifact subtype?
Skullclamp is insane. I think it's an A tier at least. Token decks love it, sacrifice decks can get rid of larger creatures and even in no synergy decks it's fine to equip it on a random beast within token and leave it as a blocker. So either noone attacks me on the ground or I draw 2 and equip it to the next creature. It gets 2 cards out of a lannowar elves after you have 12 mana, but no cards in the late game. It gets you 2 cards to rebuild after a boardwipe... So it's solid in most decks, but insane in some
Yeah the value of it with just enough creatures is great. And the equip cost is so low you can leverage it. Late game equip a now disposable etb ability creature and swing. The additional power makes it hurt more, but the card draw clause is something the opponent wants to avoid so might not want to block. Then you for 1 move it to another chump blocker to make attacking you unappealing. That’s the *floor* for so many decks.
You didn’t show sword of fire and ice and jitte. And I strongly disagree with the skullclamp ratings, that card is so busted, easily one of the best equipment cards.
Skullclamp a B for biased. Even accounting for their tier list guidelines for deck inclusion rates, I see it minimum as A. I will build around Skullclamp, like Richard builds around Dowsing Dagger. It is the first thing I tutor for. Doesn't he see the parallel between the mana value of dowsing dagger and card value of skullclamp? +They both have fairly easy requirements if even slightly built around (death v. combat damage), especially if you politic +once they've done their job, you are up in value. Sure Lost Vale may stick around longer, but you also keep the cards in your hand.
Richard: how does this card interact with a wrath Crim: How does this card play in a control deck Seth: How does this card interact with MDFCs Tomer: How does this card play un magical christmas land
If you have two low-cost commanders like Rograkh and Ardenn, the value of Greaves goes up a lot. It’s easier to do the equip 0 dance between the two creatures you always have access to, and you always want to protect at least one of your commanders.
Skullclamp is an S easy. It carries White outside of Stax and and can easy use in other colors as form of card draw that is sometime even more efficient than that colors own card draw. Obviously you won't play it in deck without creature but that can be said about most equipments.
Richard's sunforger analysis is so off. I usually run valakut awakening in boros colors for value, and it can be hit with the sunforger. That being said, when I run sunforger, I like to run it as a package with a few things. First off, fighter class. It can tutor the sunforger and make it cheaper to equip all on one card (you can also run bloodforged battle axe with it, it makes a really cool wincon) Then I have my toolbox of spells, which is generally: Valakut awakening Thrilling discovery Heartwarming redemption these are for value, you'd probably want these for added card selection in the deck anyway. For removal I usually just keep it brief: Generous gift Chaos warp Red Elemental Blast For protection: Teferi's Protection Deflecting Swat Wild Ricochet Boros Charm Flawless Maneuver Also, sometimes: Comeuppance Deflecting Palm You don't just jam sunforger in the deck, you want to bring all it's friends along. That list also expands with extra colors, allowing you to tutor things like dovin's veto and other goodies. The final card that makes the package good though is Mistveil Plains, which allows you to recycle your toolbox again and again. It turns the sunforger from a utility piece into an engine. Even slow and inefficient engines can grind games.
Ohh, one other place it really shines is in Aurelia the Warleader. You can tutor onward//victory which, after you aftermath it, will hit for 24 commander damage with Aurelia and kill someone. She's not super heavily played, but makes for a fun equipment commander.
Definitely agree on boots and greaves. I think that people are just overly afraid of their stuff getting targeted, especially their commander. Personally, I basically only run them in decks where the commander has an activated ability that requires tapping
"There's no boros instant to just randomly draw cards." Heartwarming Redemption, Valakut Awakening, Unexpected Windfall, Risk Factor, Cathartic Pyre, Thrill of Possibility, Electric Revelation. These cards may or may not be good, but they exist.
I put lightning greaves in 9/10 decks. The only reason I wouldn’t put it in is if my creatures weren’t that important and I didn’t need my commander to win. But haste and shroud are such good keywords that giving a creature both for zero mana is super valuable.
30:20 I want to talk about the ragavan. In that episode, they are referencing, it created like 5 treasures, exiled a couple cards, of which some were cast, generating card advantage, and dealt like 15 dmg. For 1 mana. I honestly think ragavan is very strong, even in commander.
Jeska's Will is a quarter of the price (still too much!) and it's like getting three Ragavan triggers immediately. I think it'll usually play better, unless your deck wants artifact tokens.
"I only run 6-7 basics" well Crim, sword of hearth and home will actually let you DRAW those lands because we all know you can't do that on your own. Maybe not running ramp cards is why you're mana screwed so much :) (I hate how common and used ramp is in modern mtg personally, but this was a good chance for a little roast)
for the record if you drop a sword of feast and famine and don't even use it right away vs dropping sinew and steel and use it against me I'm still MUCH more likely to try to kill the player who dropped feast and famine because it's objectively a bigger game winning threat, while the other card is just a regular problem I have to deal with. the "people will want to kill you" argument is pretty bad for basically any good card you drop.
Skullclamp is interesting because it's probably a B; I'd only recommend playing it in certain strategies. But it is absolutely the best card in those strategies.
I'd say it requires so little to work that it could be considered an A for working in so many strategies. It doesn't take much more than a certain density of creatures to be great, and then scales up massively from there if making tokens or recurring creatures.
Tokens. S more then 20 creatures and creature commander a. Sac outlets s. Low toughness creatures s. Other decks probably not. But it fits in so many decks.
I run almost no equipment in my decks, I think vehicles are the only thing I run in less decks (I have 1 deck that runs 3, and another runs 1 IIRC), in part because I run Skullclamp in 2 decks. Most of my stronger decks aren't interested in combat (even actively avoiding it), but I do like Lightning Greaves a fair bit, haste is a really big deal in certain decks. The Shroud rarely helps much, most people run instants now anyways, so good luck having time to equip before your creature is iced, but 2 mana to give one creature haste seems solid. Skullclamp is just bonkers, not even strictly a build around, it's also a great card in aggro where you expect your creatures to be dying, even if they aren't 1 toughness, so aristocrats loves it. I run it in a token deck and a graveyard deck, in both decks I usually like to see it, and will sometimes accept a lower land hand with it. It's a big enough benefit to draw the cards to just run it in decks that expect to get wiped a lot, it's a low investment even if you only get it's trigger once or twice. Kaldra is mostly useful in a Sakashima/Tymna deck, as a clunky way to generate tokens (1 mana for a 4/4 is an excellent rate, even if you aren't infinite), and these Commanders/colours actually make it plausible to get Kaldra out. Just play this and be done with it Tomer, it also has a high ceiling in general because evasive weenies give you endless cards even if Kaldra is somehow dealt with (run Hanna's Custody maybe?). Also, run some 1 mana 'counter something targeting your permanent' to protect pieces if you find them dying a lot. It's not quite a cEDH deck if you're all in on Kaldra, but it's still very strong (and can actually assemble him). Sunforger is pretty good, but it does look a bit 'long in the tooth' at this point, it's a ton of mana for it's effect, and the effect isn't really *that* big, so it'll flop hard vs more powerful metas. There are lots of decent multicolour spells that have W or R in them, it doesn't have to be JUST Boros, so it's probably a ton better in a Jeskai deck, where you actually do get access to card draw from this. There are counters you can find with it don't forget, 4 mana is a boatload when it comes to counters, you will likely be getting something bonus from it, so if you run it in more colours and build around it, it's a valid card, but there are openly better things you could have been doing, so it should probably stay in more Casual environs. I like Shadowspear, but I run either lands or Bonds of Mortality to do it's job. It's a lot of money for it's power level, but it's still a very playable card if you're in a higher budget game. It's approaching auto-include territory, but I think there are decks where you just don't care about it. I was a late convert to the Dowsing Dagger side, it is often a huge ramp effect, and it's not hard to get in with it potentially, and there are more (albeit consistently worse) options if you want redundancy. The tokens don't usually matter, and the free land is insane value. I run it in my kinda evasive Azorius deck, where it consistently performs fairly well, fun to use with something like Thalakos Deceiver to really rub salt... IT'S MY PLANT NOW!!
Sunforger finds Teferi's Protection, Settle the Wreckage, Boros Charm, Comeuppance, Chaos Warp, Reverberate/Fork, Debt of Loyalty as well as Swords and Path. If you can't survive the onslaught it brings, you're using it wrong.
Weird how everyone (except Tomer) was kinda down on Sunforger, yet every time I can remember seeing a Sunforger in play on Commander Clash, the entire table was terrified that they needed to kill it.
@@lordofgarbageprogenitoroft4147 I see this a lot, and it's just kind of a specious argument that implies that your playgroup doesn't threat assess correctly. If in-game a card draws a ton of hate, it's presumably because people think it's powerful and are scared of what it's going to do. If those same people then tell you out of game that it's actually not that powerful, then either (a) they're engaging in some weird doublethink or (b) they're behavior in-game is suboptimal because they're acting on fear of [thing X] even when they know [thing X] isn't actually that powerful. If they nonetheless continue to behave in this manner towards a particular card, like, say, Sunforger, then you're correct that in that context you probably shouldn't put it in your deck, because you're signing up to draw more hate than you deserve. But it doesn't actually tell us anything about the objective power level of the card.
I think skullclamp and lightning greaves are just as good as people think they are. Clamp is the best card in the decks that want it and its wanted by at least 2 very popular archetypes (tokens, aristocrats, prob most tribal decks too). Greaves give you a surprise swing/tap and protection on a creature the rest of the table didn't know was there until right then. If you have an important creature you're planning to kill people with, greaves just makes that strat better.
Interesting take on Sunforger. The way I see it is not just as a tutor. I agree it's inefficient as that. You need it in an aggro deck where the +4 power makes a creature very deadly. So you create a real threat while also having access to a toolbox in your deck. My favourite targets are not just "removal" or "board protection". I like Akroma's Will, Master Warcraft and Brave the Elements. Each of those can drastically change combat. I also think Hide/Seek is brilliant if you're in Mardu for stopping combos (either remove the artifact/enchantment or remove the combo piece they're tutoring from their deck). Ultimately, I think Sunforger is pretty game warping in practice and has a place in higher power games too, even if it appears pricey to work. In higher power you often want explosive mana and Sunforger excels when you're in a good position, with that mana.
Man, it would be great to see an equipment list discussion that didn't have most of the top used equipment. Tomer, thanks for throwing in a few unexpected twists!
I think skullclamp is easily an A, either it creates evasion for a creature where they don't want it to die so you can swing freely, or it dies to removal and you get profit. Its like an upgraded Sad Robot death trigger.
Greaves can also become a sort of combo piece to give creatures haste for activated abilities. Example: mana dorks when cantripping through your deck with glimpse of nature (and similar effects), you can do it with boots but it's obviously an extra tax you have to pay. Similar situation, main phase coco into archdruid or priest of titania, slap on greaves and keep going. The difference between going off with greaves vs boots could be an entire turn cycle. Also, Tomer: You're a great mtg personality and I really enjoy your presence on the MTG crew, but your podcast intros are dodoo. Give a quick description of what you're going to be discussing, introduce everyone that's joining the discussion, let them respond, present a prompt to someone, then get into the discussion. That was a 4 minute monologue before anyone else joined the discussion!
Rating based on ubiquity seems off to me. I would rate Skullclamp as a much better equipment than the Swords and Boots because it has way higher peaks in the right deck than those cards. I rarely run equipment in my decks, but if I'm playing a creature based deck it's hard not to justify Skullclamp. I usually only include greaves and boots in decks where losing my commander is backbreaking, but I find that that happens less often than the times I jam a Skullclamp in. The only Sword I would consider running is Feast and Famine, sorry Crim.
You missed Tatsumasa? (Ok. Maybe not great. But I love it all the same.) On Skullclamp? It’s broken. Stupid good. Of your deck even remotely supports is, you easily draw two extra cards each turn.
Greaves: A Boots: C The one additional mana is one full turn. Additionally, if you have multiple creatures with tapping abilities, that’s so many fewer chances to move them in a turn.
For the GW sword I think you were discounting the way protection works in regards to attacking and blocking. Green and White produce the most creatures so it letting the equipped creature drive through to deal damage more easily.
I'm actually playing more 1 mana protection spells like Blacksmith's Skill over Boots. It costs less than the boots, it can protect more of your stuff (enchantments for example) en you can basically fizzle an enemy spell with it and in Blacksmith's Skill's case: protect against a boardwipe too. If the haste doesn't matter much, go for cheap protection spells I'd say.
With Skullclamp even if someone Wrath's the Board you are still drawing two cards, and odds are your opponents are not, if you can net 4 - 6 cards out of Skullclamp, I think it did it's job, anything above that is just bonus.
Skull Clamp is stellar in the right deck. It is purest S Tier guys, i was disturbed by the fact it came up that late in your video. Refrasing it came up LAST. I mean am i trippin?
Sword of the Animist and Sword of Hearth and Home are Orzhov cards, white has equipment and needs a different ramp package in the midgame, black has cabal coffers and "number of swamps" based effects.
I think you can argue having lighting greaves in every deck over swift foot boots and definitely not both. 0 mana haste is just so powerful it can’t be denied
Honestly sunforger gets incredibly good when you add a third color. Add green you can pop a creature tutor, add blue you can grab multicolor white/blue counter spells, add black you hit various removal spells, you can even get some decent card draw with blue as well. Its just a card yes you do have build to around but it can be a straight all star but requires more thought.
the rating system feels seriously lacking to me because skullclamp is undoubtedly S tier in it's extremely common archetype but they gave it Bs because it's only really good in it's archetype like how does that make sense
S tier is if you take any deck that can run this card and it will make that deck better. Like it doesn't matter what Blue deck you're running, putting Rhystic Study will make it better. Skullclamp is B because you can't just jam it in any deck and expect it to be amazing.
Protection from green and white is great because those are the primary token colors, so your creature equipped with Sword of Hearth and Home can slip past opponents walls of chump blocking 1/1s. And same thing for big tall green creatures that would otherwise keep your Etali or Isshin or whatever from attacking.
I run sunforger in exactly feather. Because first fetch is magnetic theft to continually reattach it, plus it can get protection and card draw in feather, and i aim to get storm-kiln artist, or birgi on the battlefield to offset the equipment cost entirely (at instant speed with magnetic theft)
Skullclamp is at least an A to me. Decks with enough 1 toughness creatures should consider it, and any aristocrats, self sac, or tokens decks can do great with it. Even something like Najeela, Beledros, or Adeline would like it I think since they basically guarantee making 1/1's. And the rate of 2 cards for 1 mana is better than just about any card draw spell.
Hey guys. Content is great. Idk how difficult this would be, but in editing, do you think you could equalize each hosts volume? Sometimes, I have trouble hearing one of you, and the another is pretty loud.
Sword of Sinew and Steel I believe was really underrated, it gets rid of everything on this list, and early it helps you keep a strong position destroying mana rocks. Plus, protection from black is good overall. Sword of Body and Mind, although Crim is overselling it, can snatch a kill on these self mill decks they mention, I believe this is more their pod's meta giving that low of a rating. Skullclamp is S tier, it's crazy good in Boros and Aristocrats sure, but worst case scenario you have it hanging on your creature for one mana and if it is destroyed, clamp will you net 2 cards.
I love skullclamp-as another comment put it, in the right deck it’s going to be one of your best cards-but I wouldn’t play it without fodder or sacrifice. The comparison to sign in blood does not hold up-sign in blood draws cards immediately. That proactive aspect, being able to dig when you need to, is really important when it’s not something like Study, Remora, or Sentinel that will work steadily and *reliably*. If you put skullclamp on a creature as an insurance policy, your opponents have time to destroy the clamp. And they will destroy the clamp, because in the dark skullclamp is too good to leave alone. And until then, they’ll just leave that creature alone if they can reasonably do so. Your opponents would have total control over it, at barely an inconvenience.
Skullclamp is a lot better since they changed the rule where your commander actually dies now before returning to the command zone. It used to be a B but is now an A.
Greaves and boots also not only shut off sorcery speed targeted removal/steal/bounce against your best creature. And those removal spells then get thrown against your opponents as if you had goaded your opponents to remove each others creatures. Sword of fire and ice and sword of feast and famine would absolutely be played close to as often as boots/greaves if they didn't cost so much money. Akroma's Will is proactive with and works as a finisher with Suforger. Orim's Chant can also make an opponent skip an attack or casting spells for the rest of the turn. Shadowspear is good in any deck with several destroy effects or which plan to be attacking with 4+ power creatures, especially if they do stuff by damaging players or if they have deathtouch. The life gain can matter too.
I recently returned to my LGS for the first time in several years. I have to agree with Richard that games ending on turn six, or sooner, is a not uncommon occurance. As much as I love equipment, equipment decks are slow compared to the power level of creatures.
The only downside of Hearth and Home to Sword of the Animist is the casting cost? What about that combat damage triggers are worse than on attack triggers?
Re lightning greaves and swiftfoot boots - Equip 0 is much better than having hexproof instead of shroud. Equip 0 means you aren't waiting a full turn cycle to be able to benefit from both the protection and haste effect. This is an enormous difference. Hexproof really only benefits strategies like voltron where you want to be targeting your own commander consistenty. Commanders like Zur who want protection haste also get around shroud since the ability isn't targeted.
Sword of Sinew and Steel can also make friends. It's like Aura Shards. Sure, the table will be upset that you're sniping rocks, but two of those players will accept it, since you're at least keeping the artifact player in check.
2 things. The game does NOT end by turn six. Turn six is the start to game changing cards and plays. Also, turn 3 sword, equip turn 4 with a 2 cost spell thrown in. I'm chill with some of the comments by Richard, but equipment can be set up. But then again, he doesn't like artifact ramp, which is kinda similar to the swords.
A little sad that Elbrus, the Binding Blade isn't on this list, since it's one of my favorites, though I understand that it's both an underwhelming and a relatively unknown card. Good list overall though
idk how you talk about equipment without talking about Umezawa's Jitte. While it is true that is mostly shines in 1v1 and when it's creatures vs creatures, they way it changes combat math, the incidental life gain, it's just too good. In my opinion it's better then all the swords except Famine. Basically if I'm playing creatures I'm playing a Jitte because it's a house after it get's it's first two counters. Solid A.
I have a one word defense for explorers scope: Yuriko. Great way to turn what would be a dud land flip with her to free ramp plus the damage you were looking for (assuming you don't get two lands in a row of course). I've gotten tons of mileage out of it in my Yuriko deck.
1:00:55 I would love to see Tomer brewing with Galea for a Kaldra deck. Gaea's ability with some top deck manipulation would help with the overcosted Kaldra pieces
Odric or Master War craft and Junktroller or mistveil planes allow sunforger to go infinite. You can also cast chance for glory with a Gideon of the Trials or a Platinum Angel in play. You can also grab a settle the wreckage for an instant speed wrath out of nowhere. Sunforger is quite good, but only in the right deck with the right set up. It is very telegraphed and fragile.
I agree with the spooky boots. I have 2 very well played decks. One is Krenko, who is amazing when I have either on the battlefield. The second deck is Krav/Regna, with the main way of winning is either Felidar at 100 life or rogue's passage a beefy Krav, I generally find the boots make everyone aggro me before I can even beef him to where I need.
How do you feel about these semi-specific tier lists? Should we rank them in a general sense (it's possible that no card is S tier since these cards are niche), or should we rank them amongst themselves (this is S-tier equipment, but even the best equipment is mediocre). With a general list, most equipment are only good in Voltron giving them a B or C rating, but a specific tier list would put everything at S or A. Same question applies to card draw. Do you rank "white card draw" in its own category or against other card draw? Non-green ramp? Non-blue counterspells, etc etc. We try make the discussion engaging so you understand the nuances/caveats, but people still really fixate on a final letter grade, so we want to try to make it more accurate. Interested in your thoughts.
General rating is fine IMO, in the end, they’re all fighting for a spot in the 99
I prefer the compared to what they compete with ie saying this white draw is bad because a blue card is way better is poor. But saying almost every equipment is a B makes for a dull podcast rating wise anyway. I’d at least try mixing it up with the compared to themselves at least when such a niche group. Imagine a vehicle tier list where like one card gets a C and the rest get a D. It’s lame. This was… sorta similar.
I think a general rating is fine! Specifically how yall did it in this video really works!
On a slight side note: Have y'all considered changing your rating scale slightly? I feel like Tomer is the only one using that specific definition, especially for cards between B and C.
A slight retooling that wouldn't even change what you all have that much could be:
S - In every deck, I can put it in its in. Budget or personal preference are the only reasons why I don't play it.
A - Most decks will just be strictly better with this in. Not quite universal, but lack of synergy with the commander or again personal playstyle would be why I cut it.
B - This card is good in a lot of decks, consider it most of the time but usually first on the chopping block when it comes to cuts
C - Very good in narrow use or slightly less common deck archetypes but wouldn't fit in most decks. Say whelming wave?
D - *I* Do not run unless for meme/troll/or jank reasons
Obviously, these are just quick examples and for sure could be retooled!
I don't know if comparing to everything will lead to discussions as interesting as comparing cards in their niche where a given card can be useful (and thus merit a higher rating in a niche tier list).
Doing a video on white card draw and putting everything as either a C or D doesn't feel instructive to me ?
I feel you need to do some things as specific. As if you do card draw you need to make it color specific. As it seems really silly to compare cards that won't be in your deck to cards that can be. Like rating white cards draw vs blue or green. If I was in blue or green I wouldn't need white card draw. Though I think you honestly can do both generic and specific. Like you could do a color list vs general list.
I like sword of the animist because it is an attack trigger not a combat damage trigger, so you just attack and ramp regardless if there are blockers or not.
crim when he sees sword of body and mind: "I know i could just mill you into some insane cards but think of the EMOTIONAL DAMAGE if i mill your win cons.
EMOSHIONAL DAAAHMAGE
you definitely cannot reasonably give body and mind an A even if you love it because it just doesn't belong in a majority or even close to half the decks out there and the risk against graveyard based decks is wayyyy too high (and they're common decks). absolutely not a good card in most situations despite crims insistence lol
magical christmas land I guess, but what if you're running Duathi Voidwalker and possibly your own grave hate?
Suprised by Richard's evaluation; in the same way that Secret Rendevous *can* be used in either a political or situational way to where giving an opponent cards isn't a straight-up 100% of the time downside, I think sword of body and mind's mill isn't 100% of the time causing an opponent to retaliate with a powerful graveyard synergy.
@@thatepicwizardguy dauthy void walker style cards are what they are for. Its "draw 10 or something" for a lot of black/green or black/white decks. Its amazing. All swords have their niche. light and shadow and body and mind are similar.
In defense of Explorer's Scope: the two big arguments they proposed against it is Sword of the Animist and Sword of Hearth and Home. In paper, Explorer's Scope is around $0.25. The two swords are about $9 and $14 respectively. The swords might be guaranteed ramp, but at a 4 and 5 mana investment. Explorer's Scope has about 33% chance of grabbing a land every turn at 2 mana investment while also not hurting your budget. Also, no one is going to bother removing your Scope whereas Hearth and Home is certainly going to draw some attention.
At the end of the day, it's not an amazing card, but it's cheap, effective, and flies under the radar.
I will chime in on this, one thing not mentioned is how undervalued people will see this, you drop this turn 1-2 people look at it, shrug and go OK, it flies under the radar, and no one wants to waste their removal on it. I found a similar reaction to Fervor, it does so little people undervalue it and don't waste their removal on it but it has incremental value, which allows it to stick around, maybe longer then a sword of the animist, or hearth and home.
@@JMon2021 Exactly. The reverse was their argument against Sinew and Steel as that draws attention and removal (player removal at that) your way. There is value to cards that don't read as anything special. Sure it's not going to give you a turn 2 win, but at a casual table I've made great use of cards like these.
I'm surprised that you got a similar reaction for Fervor, though. I've never played against it, but I have played at tables with Fires of Yavimaya and Temur Ascendancy, and those were never undervalued. Maybe even overvalued sometimes. I would have imagined Fervor gets the same kind of response?
Another positive aspect that was not covered is that it also reduces the probability of topdecking a land.
@@Muongoing.97c the few times I have dropped fervor, no one really bats an eye, and fervor lingered on the table for a while. This may be a product of my playgroup, or it's a response to other things on the table looking far scarier, not sure.
Scope is real good in my etali deck, being able to stack triggers and get the land off the top for a higher chance of a spell is sweet
"Only sword that combos into a win condition"
Hearth and Home can go infinite with Aurelia
Yep. I die to this.
This is only infinite with Aurelia if you also already have some other infinite mana combo. Unless I'm missing something, it'll cost you 2 each combat to re-equip.
@@KuroKitten You don't equip Aurelia. You equip a different creature but blink Aurelia with the trigger
@@KuroKitten you just need a different creature to hold the sword, can't re-equip between combats since aurelia doesn't give extra mains
Ahh, gotcha. That makes much more sense.
Skullclamp will never be a disappointing card to draw in a creature deck. In the decks that can abuse it, it is the best card in that deck.
Hard agree.. Definitely the best card in my Lathril deck and one of the best in Wilhelt.
and the clamp even got better when they added the death trigger to commanders. crazy!
So sunforger for one is always played with mistfield plains which let's you recurring the same spell over and over again. Also there is a great draw spell. Valakute Awakening, unexpected windfall, and heartwarming redemption. It can also get flicker spells to get more value out of your creatures. There is also token production. Its more useful then Richard gives it credit for. Also its 5 mana to tutor and cast a 4 mana spell. Thats essentially 1 mana tutor for an instant.
Also there is a 4 mana instant called Master warcraft that let's you choose which creatures attack and which ones block. This can kill a player or just wrath 2 players boards. And with mistfeild plains you can do that once per turn cycle. Its insane and does win games
That sounds good, but then tomer is going to try to do that before eating several counterspells from crim and/or getting blasted by the entire table
dont forget Akroma's Will
Surprised Sinew and Steel was so low on the board. Had good protections from red burn and black removal and it blows up any player’s artifacts/planeswalkers not just the person you swung at. Also odd they didn’t do Fire & Ice.
They basically went over it, but you can find it in the description link of all the cards.
Agreed. I fully believe they're sleeping on Sinew and Steel. Such a great card. Removal every turn? Yes plz
We forgot to discuss Fire and Ice but we all rated it A. It's card draw and picks off utility creatures, we consider it in the top 3 swords along with Feast and Famine and Hearth and Home.
I was really hoping one of them would've made a crack about Sinew and Steel being the best one because you can blow up your own Sinew and Steel for playing Sinew and Steel
Being able to blow up anyone's stuff is the real bonus because it's fairly easy to hit someone and destroy someone else's stuff. Even if the protection isn't relevant to the attack, telling someone "if you let me hit you, I'll blow up that other player's artifact/planeswalker" will generally be enough to get through unless you are the target.
Inb4 dowsing dagger SS tier by richard
The thing they didn't mention about sinew and steel is that the protection colors are extremely relevant. Black probably has the most spot removal, which protection blanks, and while red has less spot removal, most of it's board wipes are damage based. In addition to that, you can actually run it in the red decks to make creatures survive your blasphemous acts or even hour of devastation.
Another aspect they didn't touch on is that these swords add utility that's missing from many colors at a reasonable rate. Destroy one artifact a turn is pretty bad in a deck running red or green, but sinew and steel is one of your better options for artifact hate in blue and black decks.
@@mattiet8904 Blue has ravenform and resculpt now, but they won't even put enchantment hate on a sword because red is so powerful that even having access to colorless enchantment hate on an equipment would make it too good. It would synergize with it's aggro strategy (the best strategy in commander) and absolutely dominate the meta.
As a budget-conscious player, I love Explorer's Scope. I really like how it can take lands off the top of my deck, thereby ramping me and potentially letting me draw more gas.
fully expected Tomer to pivot from "Swords, the most popular, iconic, and powerful equipment in magic the gathering" to "so we're going to start off with Sword of Kaldra"
Sinew and Steel is the best sword for generic commanders because it offers removal in colors without access to it. The other swords just do things
Umezawa's Jitte is kinda missing, I would rate it as a A or B.
Yeah oops. I'd give it a B too.
One thing I don't see discussed about the Swords is in addition to protecting the equipped creature they also make it easier for the creature to deal dmg to the player which is required for the rest of the sword to matter. So the GW sword is not as good at saving your creature but it is among the best for allowing the equipped creature to connect. Imo, GW are the colors that tend to run the most creatures.
Apparently none of the crew has seen what Sunforger does in a Feather deck.
Or any other deck
Sunforger + Mistveil Plains in my Zurgo deck can be gross to deal with
It has over performed in all of my Boros equipment decks. It gets WAY out of hand.
People play sunforge and just kill you then and there
If I flip into godo in my winota deck, he always gets sunforger, and then sunforger casts chance for glory next turn, and that’s basically always gg. And sunforger’s good at grabbing spot removal or protection on its own if I draw it. Sunforger is one of boros’s few saving grace’s
Skullclamp is 100% A-S as soon as someone gets on the field with any amount of 1 toughness creatures, they come dangerously close to winning the game on the spot from my experience. me and my brother agreed to sideboard it out against eachother because games often came down to who could get skullclamp out first.
Seth: Need a critical amount of creatures to run equipment
One Creature Voltron: *laughs*
I got 99 cards but a creature ain't one!
very true actually. I've actually seen enough games that have almost no creatures but are voltron where they EASILY win to know that you do not need a ton of creatures. the reality is almost nobody runs mass artifact removal, and mass removal in general isn't done very often. single target removal is very weak against voltron decks and chances are they are gonna one shot you right away if you're a threat (assuming they're swinging with their commander which is a typical strat).
Skeletons.
All you need to voltron is skeletons.
Most regenerate, some can get coughed back out of the graveyard, Black gives you some occasionally handy connective tissue, and Drudge Skeltons swinging for 16 will never not be funny, to say nothing for a skeletal snake.
Valduk 😈
Protection on the Swords are not just for targeted removal remember.
DEBT
Damage
Equip/Enchant
Block
Target
So basically white and green normally have the biggest armies. So GW sword is good for being unblockable
Same! I felt Seth forgot about this when talking about SOHH
It feels like everyone that didn't like the swords conveniently ignored how unbelievably busted protection is lol
"It's so hard to get through with combat damage!"
Oh, if only there was a built-in way to give your creature unblockable 🤔
Or be an ideal blocker. Maybe a bit wasted with the Swords, but protection is good at that
yeah... idk why that wasn't really emphasized. protection is actually fucking nuts ESPECIALLY on vigilance creatures who are just ALWAYS a combat threat. you could fully deny 1 or more players from going to combat against you because of a sword.
Skullclamp is a must removed if someone has it. It's utterly broken. The fact it's basically a repeatable 1 colorless mana village rites is huge. 2 cards on a dying trigger is insane. If you have teysa karlov that's 4 cards when something dies. I've used this card with 5 mana to draw 12 cards in a turn. How is that not strong?
But the tier system they use is about whether you want it in many decks or not. B is it's very good in an archetype, A is you want it in many decks, S is you want it in most decks.
I don't think most decks can use Skullclamp well, so it wouldn't be S. As to many... sure there are some archetypes that want it but it's mostly aristocrats and go wide/tokens. I'd think it's A by their standards.
That said they plaay very loose with their classifications, I mean Crim giving Body and Mind an A... even his arguments were about how in certain decks (the ones he plays, the card is good)
Yeah, I’m sure they’d rate Phyrexian Altar a B because it’s specific to aristocrats. That sound right?
@@baconsir1159 I wouldn't say phyrexian or ashnods altar are specific to aristocrats, I use ashnods in many go wide decks like tokens as well. It generates tons of mana.
@@camael4209 Phyrexian/Ashnods and Skullclamp are literally good in the same decks
The biggest issue with this list is how you describe the tiers at the start. There's no equipment that's an auto-include everywhere and realistically pretty much nothing outside of maybe greaves, clamp and the best swords would even be A. I think it would work better as ranked as equipment rather than ranked against all other magic cards (in the theoretical framework of the letters).
I agree with this completely. To me, it's similar to creating a sorcery tier list but comparing it to all cards, including their instant counterparts. All equipment have an inherent downside and I bet every equipment has a creature/land/spell counterpart tht does the same thing and is probably better.
I also agree, I have a bit of an issue with these lists since the criteria for each tier is super arbitrary and I have seen these guys flip around their criteria for a tier and rate things based on that. I enjoy their discussion, but I feel they need to ditch the tier lists and just discuss popular cards, both in a vaccum and in comparison to other cards.
I would have loved to see Robe of Stars. I think if you are running white, this is a better version of greaves/boots (as long as you don't need haste). It offers more comprehensive protection.
i love that one, even though 2 mana can be a lot if you have to use it every turn, it gets around EVERYTHING, be it targeted, board wipe, destroy, exile, etc... and 2 mana is a lot better than recasting your commander for 2 more each time
I think there are times it can be better but I think it will generally be worse over many games because perpetually leaving up 2 mana is a pretty big ask.
We rated it on the sheet (B average). I don't think it's better than Greaves (way more mana-efficient, gives haste) but being able to protect the equipped creature and all attachments from everything if you have mana up is indeed sweet.
@@MTGGoldfishCommander I agree with B mostly because if you are in a voltron deck it's an auto include. It protects the commander as well as all the sweet gear it has on them. Though outside of voltron it's not that great as you aren't really protecting anything with it and you have to leave up mana.
I think sword of sinew and steel has the best protection duo though - red boardwipes and removal spells are mostly damage based and black has tons of spot removal too. Not to mention, I feel like I see a planeswalker every game at more casual tables.
Don't forget that it protects from Blasphemous Act!
paired with liquimetal torque or coating, you could destroy just about anything. it's evil, but good.
Skullclamp I think is an S. Not because it goes in every deck but because the decks Skullclamp is good in it becomes the best card in the deck by far. So completely deck warping that I think it carries specific archetypes by its self
In the decks that want it, Skullclamp is S tier. Elves, aristocrats, vampires, zombies, etc.
It’s absolutely INSANE in my locust god deck. It’s disgusting.
Yooo the slander on Sinew and Steel, run more Liquimetal Torque in your decks and you'll understand the power
(Myr Landshaper is trying his hardest too)
I'm fine with A for the Boots and Greaves. They don't go in every deck. I have then in my Araumi deck because protection and Haste are very strong for her, but I don't run them in my Extus deck because I only cast my commander one game in three with that one, and they aren't even in my Cycling Zur deck because I only need him to get one Astral and the deck can function, and ramping him out on T3 is better than the Boots or Greaves.
I feel like no equipment can b s tier just because of the inherent downsides of equipment. The only one I would consider is Skullclamp because it can just win the game by itself, but even then it's use isn't ubiquitous enough to be s tier imo
It's better to swing with a hasty Zur the turn he comes down rather than giving your opponents a turn cycle to remove him.
I really like Sword of Truth and Justice in decks that use experience counters like Kelsien or Meren
Speaking of emotional damage, you can hear it in Tomer's voice as he admits the kaldra pieces aren't that good
56:43 Sunforger is amazing with Feather, you tutor for a instant that then goes back to your hand
Richard: Plays tons of Ardinn-Rogahk decks
Seth: has been playing tons of Boros
Tomer: Kaldra fanboy
Crim: hey guys did you hear about this new artifact subtype?
Skullclamp is insane. I think it's an A tier at least. Token decks love it, sacrifice decks can get rid of larger creatures and even in no synergy decks it's fine to equip it on a random beast within token and leave it as a blocker. So either noone attacks me on the ground or I draw 2 and equip it to the next creature. It gets 2 cards out of a lannowar elves after you have 12 mana, but no cards in the late game. It gets you 2 cards to rebuild after a boardwipe...
So it's solid in most decks, but insane in some
Agreed with Tomer on Skullclamp, grade A equipment, so sweet. Awesome discussion overall!
Yeah the value of it with just enough creatures is great. And the equip cost is so low you can leverage it.
Late game equip a now disposable etb ability creature and swing. The additional power makes it hurt more, but the card draw clause is something the opponent wants to avoid so might not want to block. Then you for 1 move it to another chump blocker to make attacking you unappealing.
That’s the *floor* for so many decks.
You didn’t show sword of fire and ice and jitte. And I strongly disagree with the skullclamp ratings, that card is so busted, easily one of the best equipment cards.
Tomer is acting like a uses car salesman trying to sell us these bulk equipment. I love it, just subbed.
Skullclamp a B for biased.
Even accounting for their tier list guidelines for deck inclusion rates, I see it minimum as A. I will build around Skullclamp, like Richard builds around Dowsing Dagger. It is the first thing I tutor for. Doesn't he see the parallel between the mana value of dowsing dagger and card value of skullclamp?
+They both have fairly easy requirements if even slightly built around (death v. combat damage), especially if you politic
+once they've done their job, you are up in value. Sure Lost Vale may stick around longer, but you also keep the cards in your hand.
Your discussions get better and better every video. This was fantastic. :) I really enjoyed it.
Richard: how does this card interact with a wrath
Crim: How does this card play in a control deck
Seth: How does this card interact with MDFCs
Tomer: How does this card play un magical christmas land
If you have two low-cost commanders like Rograkh and Ardenn, the value of Greaves goes up a lot. It’s easier to do the equip 0 dance between the two creatures you always have access to, and you always want to protect at least one of your commanders.
Skullclamp is an S easy. It carries White outside of Stax and and can easy use in other colors as form of card draw that is sometime even more efficient than that colors own card draw. Obviously you won't play it in deck without creature but that can be said about most equipments.
Richard's sunforger analysis is so off. I usually run valakut awakening in boros colors for value, and it can be hit with the sunforger. That being said, when I run sunforger, I like to run it as a package with a few things. First off, fighter class. It can tutor the sunforger and make it cheaper to equip all on one card (you can also run bloodforged battle axe with it, it makes a really cool wincon) Then I have my toolbox of spells, which is generally:
Valakut awakening
Thrilling discovery
Heartwarming redemption
these are for value, you'd probably want these for added card selection in the deck anyway.
For removal I usually just keep it brief:
Generous gift
Chaos warp
Red Elemental Blast
For protection:
Teferi's Protection
Deflecting Swat
Wild Ricochet
Boros Charm
Flawless Maneuver
Also, sometimes:
Comeuppance
Deflecting Palm
You don't just jam sunforger in the deck, you want to bring all it's friends along. That list also expands with extra colors, allowing you to tutor things like dovin's veto and other goodies.
The final card that makes the package good though is Mistveil Plains, which allows you to recycle your toolbox again and again. It turns the sunforger from a utility piece into an engine. Even slow and inefficient engines can grind games.
Ohh, one other place it really shines is in Aurelia the Warleader. You can tutor onward//victory which, after you aftermath it, will hit for 24 commander damage with Aurelia and kill someone. She's not super heavily played, but makes for a fun equipment commander.
This!
I think the percentage difference between swiftfoot boots and Sword of Feast and Famine is probably most to do with 3 dollar card VS 70 dollar card
I don't believe someone would play secret rendez-vous over a skullclamp.
IDK why they were all so low on Skullclamp. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it is the ONLY equipment to ever be BANNED
Definitely agree on boots and greaves. I think that people are just overly afraid of their stuff getting targeted, especially their commander. Personally, I basically only run them in decks where the commander has an activated ability that requires tapping
"There's no boros instant to just randomly draw cards." Heartwarming Redemption, Valakut Awakening, Unexpected Windfall, Risk Factor, Cathartic Pyre, Thrill of Possibility, Electric Revelation. These cards may or may not be good, but they exist.
I think Sword of Feast and Famine deserves to be S tier way more than greaves. It's the best card in your deck most of the time.
53:06
Oblation!
Also, the power in the combo of Ragavan+Explorer's Scope is not the equipment
I put lightning greaves in 9/10 decks. The only reason I wouldn’t put it in is if my creatures weren’t that important and I didn’t need my commander to win. But haste and shroud are such good keywords that giving a creature both for zero mana is super valuable.
Ironically it is not good in equipment decks because the shroud prevents you from equipping
30:20 I want to talk about the ragavan. In that episode, they are referencing, it created like 5 treasures, exiled a couple cards, of which some were cast, generating card advantage, and dealt like 15 dmg. For 1 mana. I honestly think ragavan is very strong, even in commander.
Turn 1 it's pretty strong. Turn 2 it's still maybe okay. Turn 4 and beyond: I wish I hadn't just top decked this useless monkey!
Jeska's Will is a quarter of the price (still too much!) and it's like getting three Ragavan triggers immediately. I think it'll usually play better, unless your deck wants artifact tokens.
"I only run 6-7 basics" well Crim, sword of hearth and home will actually let you DRAW those lands because we all know you can't do that on your own. Maybe not running ramp cards is why you're mana screwed so much :)
(I hate how common and used ramp is in modern mtg personally, but this was a good chance for a little roast)
for the record if you drop a sword of feast and famine and don't even use it right away vs dropping sinew and steel and use it against me I'm still MUCH more likely to try to kill the player who dropped feast and famine because it's objectively a bigger game winning threat, while the other card is just a regular problem I have to deal with. the "people will want to kill you" argument is pretty bad for basically any good card you drop.
Skullclamp is interesting because it's probably a B; I'd only recommend playing it in certain strategies.
But it is absolutely the best card in those strategies.
I'd say it requires so little to work that it could be considered an A for working in so many strategies. It doesn't take much more than a certain density of creatures to be great, and then scales up massively from there if making tokens or recurring creatures.
Tokens. S more then 20 creatures and creature commander a. Sac outlets s. Low toughness creatures s. Other decks probably not. But it fits in so many decks.
If you run creatures you should run Skullclamp. Easy A from me.
I run almost no equipment in my decks, I think vehicles are the only thing I run in less decks (I have 1 deck that runs 3, and another runs 1 IIRC), in part because I run Skullclamp in 2 decks. Most of my stronger decks aren't interested in combat (even actively avoiding it), but I do like Lightning Greaves a fair bit, haste is a really big deal in certain decks. The Shroud rarely helps much, most people run instants now anyways, so good luck having time to equip before your creature is iced, but 2 mana to give one creature haste seems solid.
Skullclamp is just bonkers, not even strictly a build around, it's also a great card in aggro where you expect your creatures to be dying, even if they aren't 1 toughness, so aristocrats loves it. I run it in a token deck and a graveyard deck, in both decks I usually like to see it, and will sometimes accept a lower land hand with it. It's a big enough benefit to draw the cards to just run it in decks that expect to get wiped a lot, it's a low investment even if you only get it's trigger once or twice.
Kaldra is mostly useful in a Sakashima/Tymna deck, as a clunky way to generate tokens (1 mana for a 4/4 is an excellent rate, even if you aren't infinite), and these Commanders/colours actually make it plausible to get Kaldra out. Just play this and be done with it Tomer, it also has a high ceiling in general because evasive weenies give you endless cards even if Kaldra is somehow dealt with (run Hanna's Custody maybe?). Also, run some 1 mana 'counter something targeting your permanent' to protect pieces if you find them dying a lot. It's not quite a cEDH deck if you're all in on Kaldra, but it's still very strong (and can actually assemble him).
Sunforger is pretty good, but it does look a bit 'long in the tooth' at this point, it's a ton of mana for it's effect, and the effect isn't really *that* big, so it'll flop hard vs more powerful metas. There are lots of decent multicolour spells that have W or R in them, it doesn't have to be JUST Boros, so it's probably a ton better in a Jeskai deck, where you actually do get access to card draw from this. There are counters you can find with it don't forget, 4 mana is a boatload when it comes to counters, you will likely be getting something bonus from it, so if you run it in more colours and build around it, it's a valid card, but there are openly better things you could have been doing, so it should probably stay in more Casual environs.
I like Shadowspear, but I run either lands or Bonds of Mortality to do it's job. It's a lot of money for it's power level, but it's still a very playable card if you're in a higher budget game. It's approaching auto-include territory, but I think there are decks where you just don't care about it.
I was a late convert to the Dowsing Dagger side, it is often a huge ramp effect, and it's not hard to get in with it potentially, and there are more (albeit consistently worse) options if you want redundancy. The tokens don't usually matter, and the free land is insane value. I run it in my kinda evasive Azorius deck, where it consistently performs fairly well, fun to use with something like Thalakos Deceiver to really rub salt... IT'S MY PLANT NOW!!
Sunforger finds Teferi's Protection, Settle the Wreckage, Boros Charm, Comeuppance, Chaos Warp, Reverberate/Fork, Debt of Loyalty as well as Swords and Path. If you can't survive the onslaught it brings, you're using it wrong.
if you're in mardu you can also grab crackling doom
Richard is making so many great points 31:30 dude really understands the strategy of equipment
Weird how everyone (except Tomer) was kinda down on Sunforger, yet every time I can remember seeing a Sunforger in play on Commander Clash, the entire table was terrified that they needed to kill it.
Right, so you play sunforger, the entire table kills it (or you) and the end result is you paid 3 mana to die a horrible death
@@lordofgarbageprogenitoroft4147 I see this a lot, and it's just kind of a specious argument that implies that your playgroup doesn't threat assess correctly. If in-game a card draws a ton of hate, it's presumably because people think it's powerful and are scared of what it's going to do. If those same people then tell you out of game that it's actually not that powerful, then either (a) they're engaging in some weird doublethink or (b) they're behavior in-game is suboptimal because they're acting on fear of [thing X] even when they know [thing X] isn't actually that powerful.
If they nonetheless continue to behave in this manner towards a particular card, like, say, Sunforger, then you're correct that in that context you probably shouldn't put it in your deck, because you're signing up to draw more hate than you deserve.
But it doesn't actually tell us anything about the objective power level of the card.
I think skullclamp and lightning greaves are just as good as people think they are. Clamp is the best card in the decks that want it and its wanted by at least 2 very popular archetypes (tokens, aristocrats, prob most tribal decks too). Greaves give you a surprise swing/tap and protection on a creature the rest of the table didn't know was there until right then. If you have an important creature you're planning to kill people with, greaves just makes that strat better.
Interesting take on Sunforger. The way I see it is not just as a tutor. I agree it's inefficient as that. You need it in an aggro deck where the +4 power makes a creature very deadly. So you create a real threat while also having access to a toolbox in your deck. My favourite targets are not just "removal" or "board protection". I like Akroma's Will, Master Warcraft and Brave the Elements. Each of those can drastically change combat. I also think Hide/Seek is brilliant if you're in Mardu for stopping combos (either remove the artifact/enchantment or remove the combo piece they're tutoring from their deck). Ultimately, I think Sunforger is pretty game warping in practice and has a place in higher power games too, even if it appears pricey to work. In higher power you often want explosive mana and Sunforger excels when you're in a good position, with that mana.
Man, it would be great to see an equipment list discussion that didn't have most of the top used equipment. Tomer, thanks for throwing in a few unexpected twists!
I think skullclamp is easily an A, either it creates evasion for a creature where they don't want it to die so you can swing freely, or it dies to removal and you get profit. Its like an upgraded Sad Robot death trigger.
Greaves can also become a sort of combo piece to give creatures haste for activated abilities. Example: mana dorks when cantripping through your deck with glimpse of nature (and similar effects), you can do it with boots but it's obviously an extra tax you have to pay. Similar situation, main phase coco into archdruid or priest of titania, slap on greaves and keep going. The difference between going off with greaves vs boots could be an entire turn cycle.
Also, Tomer: You're a great mtg personality and I really enjoy your presence on the MTG crew, but your podcast intros are dodoo. Give a quick description of what you're going to be discussing, introduce everyone that's joining the discussion, let them respond, present a prompt to someone, then get into the discussion. That was a 4 minute monologue before anyone else joined the discussion!
Rating based on ubiquity seems off to me. I would rate Skullclamp as a much better equipment than the Swords and Boots because it has way higher peaks in the right deck than those cards. I rarely run equipment in my decks, but if I'm playing a creature based deck it's hard not to justify Skullclamp. I usually only include greaves and boots in decks where losing my commander is backbreaking, but I find that that happens less often than the times I jam a Skullclamp in. The only Sword I would consider running is Feast and Famine, sorry Crim.
You missed Tatsumasa? (Ok. Maybe not great. But I love it all the same.)
On Skullclamp? It’s broken. Stupid good. Of your deck even remotely supports is, you easily draw two extra cards each turn.
The fact that skullclamp isn’t an S Is giving me an aneurism
Greaves: A
Boots: C
The one additional mana is one full turn. Additionally, if you have multiple creatures with tapping abilities, that’s so many fewer chances to move them in a turn.
For the GW sword I think you were discounting the way protection works in regards to attacking and blocking. Green and White produce the most creatures so it letting the equipped creature drive through to deal damage more easily.
Crim was texting the whole time Tomer was explaining the Kaldra pieces. That tells you everything about the equipment.
I'm actually playing more 1 mana protection spells like Blacksmith's Skill over Boots. It costs less than the boots, it can protect more of your stuff (enchantments for example) en you can basically fizzle an enemy spell with it and in Blacksmith's Skill's case: protect against a boardwipe too. If the haste doesn't matter much, go for cheap protection spells I'd say.
but it's a 1 time use vs constant effect which most people rate much more highly. honestly, if you need to protect you guy that much just run both lol
With Skullclamp even if someone Wrath's the Board you are still drawing two cards, and odds are your opponents are not, if you can net 4 - 6 cards out of Skullclamp, I think it did it's job, anything above that is just bonus.
Skull Clamp is stellar in the right deck. It is purest S Tier guys, i was disturbed by the fact it came up that late in your video. Refrasing it came up LAST. I mean am i trippin?
Richard you are actually wrong about EDHREC. It's data only counts decks that were built or updated in the last two years, it does not count all time.
Explorer's scope is solid B tier. In decks that are always attacking (like Marchesa of the Black Rose) it is actually a powerhouse.
Sword of the Animist and Sword of Hearth and Home are Orzhov cards, white has equipment and needs a different ramp package in the midgame, black has cabal coffers and "number of swamps" based effects.
I think you can argue having lighting greaves in every deck over swift foot boots and definitely not both. 0 mana haste is just so powerful it can’t be denied
Honestly sunforger gets incredibly good when you add a third color. Add green you can pop a creature tutor, add blue you can grab multicolor white/blue counter spells, add black you hit various removal spells, you can even get some decent card draw with blue as well. Its just a card yes you do have build to around but it can be a straight all star but requires more thought.
One more use Sunforger they didn't mention was grabbing a win con; Akroma's will is a very good card to fetch.
the rating system feels seriously lacking to me because skullclamp is undoubtedly S tier in it's extremely common archetype but they gave it Bs because it's only really good in it's archetype like how does that make sense
S tier is if you take any deck that can run this card and it will make that deck better. Like it doesn't matter what Blue deck you're running, putting Rhystic Study will make it better. Skullclamp is B because you can't just jam it in any deck and expect it to be amazing.
Protection from green and white is great because those are the primary token colors, so your creature equipped with Sword of Hearth and Home can slip past opponents walls of chump blocking 1/1s. And same thing for big tall green creatures that would otherwise keep your Etali or Isshin or whatever from attacking.
I run sunforger in exactly feather. Because first fetch is magnetic theft to continually reattach it, plus it can get protection and card draw in feather, and i aim to get storm-kiln artist, or birgi on the battlefield to offset the equipment cost entirely (at instant speed with magnetic theft)
Skullclamp is at least an A to me. Decks with enough 1 toughness creatures should consider it, and any aristocrats, self sac, or tokens decks can do great with it. Even something like Najeela, Beledros, or Adeline would like it I think since they basically guarantee making 1/1's. And the rate of 2 cards for 1 mana is better than just about any card draw spell.
Hey guys. Content is great. Idk how difficult this would be, but in editing, do you think you could equalize each hosts volume? Sometimes, I have trouble hearing one of you, and the another is pretty loud.
Sword of Sinew and Steel I believe was really underrated, it gets rid of everything on this list, and early it helps you keep a strong position destroying mana rocks. Plus, protection from black is good overall.
Sword of Body and Mind, although Crim is overselling it, can snatch a kill on these self mill decks they mention, I believe this is more their pod's meta giving that low of a rating.
Skullclamp is S tier, it's crazy good in Boros and Aristocrats sure, but worst case scenario you have it hanging on your creature for one mana and if it is destroyed, clamp will you net 2 cards.
I love skullclamp-as another comment put it, in the right deck it’s going to be one of your best cards-but I wouldn’t play it without fodder or sacrifice. The comparison to sign in blood does not hold up-sign in blood draws cards immediately. That proactive aspect, being able to dig when you need to, is really important when it’s not something like Study, Remora, or Sentinel that will work steadily and *reliably*. If you put skullclamp on a creature as an insurance policy, your opponents have time to destroy the clamp. And they will destroy the clamp, because in the dark skullclamp is too good to leave alone. And until then, they’ll just leave that creature alone if they can reasonably do so. Your opponents would have total control over it, at barely an inconvenience.
Skullclamp is a lot better since they changed the rule where your commander actually dies now before returning to the command zone. It used to be a B but is now an A.
Greaves and boots also not only shut off sorcery speed targeted removal/steal/bounce against your best creature. And those removal spells then get thrown against your opponents as if you had goaded your opponents to remove each others creatures.
Sword of fire and ice and sword of feast and famine would absolutely be played close to as often as boots/greaves if they didn't cost so much money.
Akroma's Will is proactive with and works as a finisher with Suforger. Orim's Chant can also make an opponent skip an attack or casting spells for the rest of the turn.
Shadowspear is good in any deck with several destroy effects or which plan to be attacking with 4+ power creatures, especially if they do stuff by damaging players or if they have deathtouch. The life gain can matter too.
I recently returned to my LGS for the first time in several years. I have to agree with Richard that games ending on turn six, or sooner, is a not uncommon occurance. As much as I love equipment, equipment decks are slow compared to the power level of creatures.
The only downside of Hearth and Home to Sword of the Animist is the casting cost?
What about that combat damage triggers are worse than on attack triggers?
Re lightning greaves and swiftfoot boots - Equip 0 is much better than having hexproof instead of shroud. Equip 0 means you aren't waiting a full turn cycle to be able to benefit from both the protection and haste effect. This is an enormous difference. Hexproof really only benefits strategies like voltron where you want to be targeting your own commander consistenty. Commanders like Zur who want protection haste also get around shroud since the ability isn't targeted.
Sword of Sinew and Steel can also make friends. It's like Aura Shards. Sure, the table will be upset that you're sniping rocks, but two of those players will accept it, since you're at least keeping the artifact player in check.
Many players have the mindset of old commander rules. Skullclamp got a hell of a lot better now that your commander triggers it.
2 things. The game does NOT end by turn six. Turn six is the start to game changing cards and plays. Also, turn 3 sword, equip turn 4 with a 2 cost spell thrown in. I'm chill with some of the comments by Richard, but equipment can be set up. But then again, he doesn't like artifact ramp, which is kinda similar to the swords.
Every Aristocrats player screams at there Screens when Team Goldfish says that Skullclamp ist just ok
A little sad that Elbrus, the Binding Blade isn't on this list, since it's one of my favorites, though I understand that it's both an underwhelming and a relatively unknown card. Good list overall though
idk how you talk about equipment without talking about Umezawa's Jitte. While it is true that is mostly shines in 1v1 and when it's creatures vs creatures, they way it changes combat math, the incidental life gain, it's just too good. In my opinion it's better then all the swords except Famine. Basically if I'm playing creatures I'm playing a Jitte because it's a house after it get's it's first two counters. Solid A.
I have a one word defense for explorers scope: Yuriko. Great way to turn what would be a dud land flip with her to free ramp plus the damage you were looking for (assuming you don't get two lands in a row of course). I've gotten tons of mileage out of it in my Yuriko deck.
Explorer's Scope is worth because when ever you hit that land you get to shout "LAND HO".
1:00:55 I would love to see Tomer brewing with Galea for a Kaldra deck. Gaea's ability with some top deck manipulation would help with the overcosted Kaldra pieces
Looking at what card draw you can cast with Sunforger, and just realized it could find Valukut's Awakening.... not bad
Odric or Master War craft and Junktroller or mistveil planes allow sunforger to go infinite. You can also cast chance for glory with a Gideon of the Trials or a Platinum Angel in play. You can also grab a settle the wreckage for an instant speed wrath out of nowhere. Sunforger is quite good, but only in the right deck with the right set up. It is very telegraphed and fragile.
I agree with the spooky boots. I have 2 very well played decks. One is Krenko, who is amazing when I have either on the battlefield. The second deck is Krav/Regna, with the main way of winning is either Felidar at 100 life or rogue's passage a beefy Krav, I generally find the boots make everyone aggro me before I can even beef him to where I need.