The typical flow of a MTG Goldfish Commander debate: Seth: (totally reasonably) statement A Richard: actually, the exact opposite of statement A Crim: the exact opposite of statement A, BUT in a way that pisses off the whole table Tomer: ok, guys. But what about…statement A?
I know I'm getting so tired of this line from Richard, it's like dude you only win games through combat damage what are you even talking about? That is literally always Richard's single wincon.
Some great suggestions discussed. After having played a couple decades, the best change idea ive heard came from reddit a couple weeks ago now. It was that commander tax can be paid separate from the commander itself to put the commander into hand at sorcery speed, similar to nerfed companion rules. It would allow for larger commanders to still be playable after dying a couple times. I would add that this rule would only apply after the commander has been played once, paying 0 to add something to hand immediately would break it. But being able to pay 4 one turn then 6 the next for your commander is much more feasible than 10 mana in a single turn.
Hmm, that's an interesting idea. I'd have to think more about it, but my initial reaction is that it would probably be a positive. It doesn't seem overpowered, but does let people have access to their commanders more often, especially expensive ones.
That's a really cool idea, some games you end up losing because you just can't recast for the umpteenth time, and if you wanted to play your Commander that turn, it's the same amount anyways. It's not like high MV Commanders are running rampant at the moment, it's rare to see anything over 4 MV I feel like, 5 is pushing things, 6 is shocking now.
@@Dataloss484 indeed :) would also spike the prices of any card that puts creatures from hand into play. I feel allowing big commanders again is worth opening up a new type of shenanigans
On the topic of infect - at a typical table there will only be 1 infect deck. So there will be 3 players attacking the 40 life total while only one person is attacking with infect damage. I’m not an infect player, but it doesn’t need to be changed. As far as I’m concerned it’s much more difficult to win with infect then regular damage.
@@jamescooley5241 one card that is often run outside of infect does not disprove an argument. triumph of the horde could have the same buffs without the infect and just say if a player takes 10 or more damage this turn they lose and it would be almost exactly the same.
This assumes that all players are ganging up on infect and/or using their removal on them. Would that often happen, and if it does, what does it say about infect that they automatically become archenemy from just playing that archetype?
@@zanesebo7288 I’d say that the fact that they become the archenemy at the table speaks much more to the state of casual commander mindset as opposed to the power level of infect. Think about it - most casual commander tables HATE alternative win cons. Mill? Archenemy. Combo? Archenemy. Stax? Archenemy. Infect? Archenemy. The reason being that a lot of casual players just like to play their battle cruiser magic and don’t like when something different is introduced into the equation. Mill and infect are so much lower on the power level scale then combo, stax, and even regular old beats. It has nothing to do with power level and everything to do with a long standing, and frankly unfounded, stigma against alt win cons.
@@jefftaylor8077 I'm glad that your tables are so united, but it is not often I see everyone agree to take a person out just because of the deck archetype they are playing. The whole table ganging up on the mill player? Unlikely. When these decks prove to be threatening, that's when you might see the table start to shift focus, but I don't see a mill player get hated out early on. For Stax and Combo, Stax is just not fun to play against for your average casual player, so that can lead to getting hated out. Players also always need to be wary of combo decks because they can have explosive turns despite not having much of a physical board presence. Is that playing archenemy? No, but it can seem that way to a combo player if they are being attacked or having their value creatures destroyed. The alternative is they are left alone in their durdling until they pull out a win with their grip of cards they've been creating for several turns. I don't believe it's a hate of alternative win cons, but moreso decks don't have a lot of counterplay to these decks built into their own decks either because they are obscure or their deck doesn't have the right kind of removal to deal with it. When that's the case, player removal is the only real option.
Looping those is already possible with the white 1 mana value instant. You just need to also recur it from the graveyard afterwards (very easy for blue decks).
no i think this person's right we don't want to make this any easier to do. besides do we really want to make exile into a 2nd graveyard or do we want it to have an actual purpose. gonna have to break out AWOL from unhinged to deal with this threat
if wish grabbed things from your collection people would just own four extra copies of expropriate (i completely agree with you but the additional factor of breaking singleton makes the "anything from your collection" option especially ridiculous)
The thing about artifacts like thrumming stone as your commander is they’d have colorless color identity, making them far worse than they actually seem
I play a Pyromancers Goggles commander deck and being mono-red is a real restriction. There are a lot fewer 3+ color non-creature cards than you'd think. The main thing though is that there's a much lower chance that someone will board wipe or hold removal that can address it.
@@MTGGoldfish Sword of the Animist and Eye of Vecna seem like they’d be pretty good though; gives options for colorless decks for cheap card draw and ramp in the command zone
Every pod I’ve ever played in, combat matters tremendously. Prison effects matter, cards like Inkshield matter, combat tricks are crucial. I think there are a much higher percentage of pods who play super casual, battlecruiser/on board type of edh than you think (Richard) 😂 not *every* creature is there for attacking or defending, but this is how we win more often than not. During combat, and what results from it. And we like it that way.
Wish: Tutors already go against the spirit of the format, i.e., embracing variance, but most importantly, they provide silver bullets in your deckbuilding without paying any opportunity cost. It's okay to play silver bullets that can negate your opponents' entire strategy, but it should come at the cost of being a dead card slot and a dead draw when no one plays that strategy. WIshes dodge that downside. A friend of mine uses Rule 0 to play them, and it feels unfair everytime. "Play more graveyard hate" will become "Play more wishes".
I rule 0 a wish card but its objectivly bad and is only for flavor. Its a dual faced card research something. It costs UR and lets me shuffle 4 cards into my deck not even in hand. I use it to bring more elementals into my deck like primalcrux and elderwood scion cards that are absolutly not silver bullets jus a way to get more variance. Ive never seen a playgroup not be okay with that even though i have a 200 plus card sidebord. My sidebord is jus cards that werent quite good enough to fit into main decks of several different elemental tribal decks ive tried to make and whenever i recently take cards from a deck i put em in my box and eventually cycle em out for new elementals. I wont ever take more than 15 secs lookin through my sideboard cus i jus add flavorfull cards to deck. I dont need this to be an official rule cus it wouldnt be used like how i use em. People would cut a gy hate or removal spell throw it in the side with a couple other silver bullets and never worry about your decks weakness again. I dont want yugioh were you got a 15 card extra deck basicly and your heavily disadvantaged if you dont at least use it.
I always thought this was the reason because I remember times when updates happened on MTGO and messed up the banned as commander list and for a time they could be your commander
There are 69 (nice) Planeswalkers currently with Green in their color, and 181 Planeswalkers without any Green at all EDIT: Of those 69 containing Green, 10 of them are Golgari, so Carth the Lion is already probably taking that Commander slot; 4 of them already have "CARDNAME can be your Commander"; and then 1 of them is Nissa, Vastwood Seer/Nissa, Sage Animist
The problem with wish for me is like what seth said a lot of silver bullet cards that you dont have to run in your deck making it worse. Atleast with a tutor you have to have it in the 99 with the chance that you draw it when it isn't good. An example of this is i can wish for boil and blow out the blue players, but if im in a pod with zero blue players i never have to commit to having the card in my deck. If you are going to run random hate i would atleast like you to commit to having it in your deck and making a deck making decision instead of just running it in the sideboard
I totally agree! The format is about deck restrictions. One of the restrictions is trade offs on running narrow or niche cards. Also adding a sideboard makes it a 108 card or 116 card format. (allowing for companions) I didn't like the idea of companions, they were cool, but it changed the heart of the format a bit. I like the format because it is 100 card singleton no sideboard, it makes it less min/max and it strikes a nice balance. I get that some cards and mechanics are not useful but it was stated that the RC doesn't want to make sweeping changes for corner cases. In this case I agree.
It also punishes you for drawing one off cards that you include for other reasons. I'm thinking of the Razaketh deck I have where I've been trying to fill it with things like tainted strike for a one hit kill, or Not of this World for protection. Problem is when you draw it in the beginning 7 turns of the game where it just rots in your hand, but that's solved with just running masterminds acquisition, then I can grab it out of my sideboard or get something to ramp if I'm not there yet. Edit: that being said, I do like the idea of trying sideboards, same with a bunch of other stuff.
It also means you can build a wincon less deck, and just wish for your wincon from outside the game. It literally protects your wincon from being touched
totally disagree, simply because commander desperately needs people to play more hate and everyone having a hate wish list with no opportunity cost means we get more interaction in games.
@@jacobchesney1558 what are you talking about? who is milling out your table so often that a card not being in your 99 is extra protection? that is absolutely not an extr level of protection against anything but a mill player.
The only reason I've ever wanted to pull from any card in my collection is specifically for Spawnsire of Ulamog. I wanted so badly ever since I saw that card back in the day that I could live that dream and never could 😭
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand the doubling season concern with planeswalkers. Did you guys forget about color restrictions? I don't think it's as bad of an issue as you guys are making.
definitely what I was thinking. doubling season is dangerous sure... but in planeswalker run decks it'd ONLY apply to green color planeswalkers so...??? how many of those are super dangerous with it? Arlinn, Embraced by the Moon Domri Rade (needs to survive 1 round) Domri, Chaos Bringer Ellywick Tumblestrum Garruk, Caller of Beasts Garruk, Cursed Huntsman Garruk, Primal Hunter Garruk, Unleashed Kiora, Master of the Depths Nissa, Who Shakes the World Oko just being your commander in general... Tamiyo, Compleated Sage Tamiyo, Field Researcher Vivien Reid Vraska, Golgari Queen Vraska, Relic Seeker (kills 1 player at a time) a couple more have some potential problematic stuff but these ones are 100% dangerous with emblems, land dumping, essentially instant win stuff, etc. some of these are fairly expensive commanders HOWEVER they're in green... so I'd say even though there's a green restriction going on it'd open a fucking nightmare door for commanders where you suddenly need to worry about all these and more in other colors who dont need doubling season to be horrific to play against.
@@thatepicwizardguy you forgot to mention samut which immediately tutors any 2 card creature combo onto the field and effectively wins immediately and part of the problem with planswalker 2 card combos is most of them are almost impossible to interact without blue because priority
@@leviponce7730 “I play doubling season, then my commander, I win!” W: disenchant U: counters or bounce B: debt to the kami R: chaos warp G: naturalize There ARE answers, and that’s assuming it doesn’t self police anyway.
I completely agree with Seth on sideboards. It would add way too much consistency and tutoring to a singleton format, and it also has logistically problems, like that you have to go get new sleeves for all your existing decks and potentially find bigger deck boxes.
the unlimited sideboard aspect would completely nullify any need for that, and 100 card decks are already as consistent as you want them to be in magics current state which is exactly what richard was saying. more casual players CHOOSE not to make insane fucking decks which they could just netdeck and need no skill to put together or even play most of the time. adding wishes and whatnot doesn't affect the casual folk, it doesnt really affect the competitive scene since their decks are already nutso, so who does it hit? semi competitive decks by some margin? who cares? there's a chance somebody bombs you out in a game cuz they can pull some wish nonsense but suddenly they're actually LOSING slots in their deck to have flex wish slots and those wishes if unlimited would be a headache for a lot of players who would probably choose not to even bother and just put in the stuff they wanted to put in TBH. most players value convenience and fun over flat power.
The "penalty" for playing multiple colors is looking at the problem from the wrong perspective. I don't believe its something we can fix cleanly with mechanics. WotC needs to print more cards that properly incentivize more limited color decks like Commander's Plate. Or even burn spells that do more damage based on opponents color identities, some kind of color hate. I truly think that's the least complex way the problem is addressed.
I definitely agree that a reward system is better than a punishment system, especially one that doesn't modify the rules. Promoting more mono colored strategies with powerful devotion payoffs, higher pipped cards, things like War Room. Imagine if Smothering Tithe was 1WWW instead of 3W. It would have a real cost to go into multicolored piles and probably be less egregious.
Yeah, I think there really should be more cards that have effects that benefits from having less colors. It could be based on your commander’s colors, like Commander’s Plate, but even on land types and colors you control/in your graveyard/in hand so it’s functional even outside of commander. These exist but there should a lot more. I’m surprised there aren’t more stax pieces that do this too. Something like an inverse of Mana Maze, as in something that locks players into only playing spells that share colors.
@@eyeh0 Do you mean like Hall of Gemstone? I don't think stax would be the right route for encouraging monocolor. Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Ruination all exist and people seem to get upset when I cast them. Rewards are always going to be the better system of gameplay incentives for encouraging play patterns. Don't introduce punishment cards for play patterns you don't like, create more rewards for patterns you do like.
The way I try to punish "greedy" Commanders, is by using nonbasic land hate. I do love me some Price of Progress or Ruination. But I agree that we need more of that.
The wish takes were genuinely insane. When you include a hate piece to tutor for in your deck, you risk drawing it when it isn't relevant. Wishes don't even have that downside. The last thing we need is "tutors but even more broken"
Tutors aren't broken and are good for commander, as they reduce variance and increase deck diversity. Wishes aren't good for commander in my opinion, in so far as they grab things from outside the game. I think if wishes could grab from exile that would be fair, and interesting. But they probably wouldn't see play regardless.
@@jadegrace1312Reduce variance? It’s a singleton format. The whole point of singleton is _increasing_ variance compared to other formats. And I don’t know what you mean by increasing deck diversity.
@@Crunchatize_Me_SenpaiI'm guessing they mean that there are certain decks which are pretty underpowered but can work if they are able to tutor up a specific piece.
Honestly I think the examples used for "flip-into-a-legendary" were pretty neat from a flavor perspective. Like, having Erbus as your commander is like you have Withengar leading his cultists from inside his prison. That's a super flavorful sort of Eldritch storyline being told right there about Withengar using his disciples to free himself from his prison *during* your session. That sounds awesome! Ormendahl as well. With Kenzo the Hardhearted it's a story of a regular fish-out-of-water soldier who feels way out of his depth but he's in charge of this whole army because someone *saw* something in him. All he needs is to grow into his role and he'll be a commander that we can all believe in! I think stories like this absolutely belong at a commander table and I honestly don't see a big issue of power level, even with Ormendahl.
Exactly. In Lord of the Rings, the evil army isn't being led by a tower with an eye on top of it, they're being led by Sauron, who happens to be trapped in the tower. Same thing for Erebus. You aren't being led by a dagger, your leader is a demon who is trying to escape from a dagger.
I think a Wish Board is very dangerous. What happens when you can essentially add 400 more tutors to your deck? Also, you can make your win conditions Praetor’s Grasp-proof.
The 2 problems I have with wishes is 1) it’s another copy. Like it isn’t just a tutor. It lets you play 2 fierce guardianships or 2 rhystic studies and things like this. And 2) since it doesn’t tutor from the 99, it breaks the “scarcity” of choosing which 99 cards to put in your deck. Like how many times have we heard that X card just didn’t make the cut? I do wish the lessons worked though :(
Richard suggesting playing wishes as printed blows my mind. That would be so warping it would hardly even be the same format. I can imagine it being some competitive player’s wet dream, but I would be running for the hills.
@SilverAlex 1 There would be no opportunity cost to putting cards into your wishboard pile. That's extremely broken 2 it would be gross pay-to-win 3 the logistics of building, finding a box for, transporting, and most of all playing those decks would be a nightmare
Sorry for the spamming, but I think you mistake wishes as written for tutors. Think of it like this: you don’t tutor for a tutor, but you would tutor for a wish.
Is strongly disagree that a wish (with an infinite sideboard) is even close to a tutor in power level. Let’s just cut to the chase, would you not feel you need to build a 5color deck, with a minimum of say 500 silver bullet in your wishboard?
I think something along the lines of 4 objects/cards that players pick in reverse turn order would be interesting. Something like treasure, clue, food, and monarch (could be adjusted). Forth player picks first.
Honestly the health change start actually punishes combo decks the most and rewards aggro. A lot of combo decks use their health to combo off. With lower health you can't go off as easily.
@@sirrslipp combo decks dominate all formats because they are perfect value decks. Every deck is looking for synergy between its cards, combo decks just have the perfect synergy. Its when that combo is 2 cards(usually a commander and 1 deck card) and wins on the spot or generates so much value that its ALWAYS getting a third card that translates it into a win. For instance, godo plus helm. Wins in 2 cards. Kinnen and any mana source that he makes go infinite. He self tutors out the win cons himself. He can even tutor out 2 or 3 convert colorless into colored mana cards to go infiniterer.
Your season recaps have influenced our play group to collect data. Our data shows out of 123 games that the player who plays 4th wins as much as going 1st. 3rd is woefully behind and I believe that this is because the player in 4th is usually viewed as being behind and end up not being attacked or having their permanents destroyed. Something to think about
Genuine Question: Why do people dislike bans so much? If the argument is to introduce more cards into the format, don’t we hundreds every year anyways? Aren’t there alternatives?
Most often there aren't alternatives because wizards makes an effort to not reprint effects that got banned before. And arguably a more important reason is that some formats, including commander, aren't meant to rotate. If you start banning liberally you not only take away cool cards, but you force people to constantly buy more cards, and if they wanted to do that they would play standard.
@@josephblattert6311 Every time a card gets banned in Commander, it seems like we can see it coming. If a card just seems to regressive or too good, I probably won't play it and trade it away before I feel like it is going to get banned anyways.
Alternative for Lesson/Learn mechanic: change the Learn spells to let you search your library for a Lesson instead of make a new wishboard. Tutor for mediocre spells seems functionally the same aside from negligible deck thinning & shuffles
@@Aronia55 That's why this is a great solution! There's an actual tradeoff for Learn cards while still letting them function... creating a wishboard for them (syllabus?) just gives free value for the few Learn spells that are borderline playable already.
@@Aronia55 except for a few specific ones like Introduction to Annihilation in decks without white or green since they don't have many answers to things like enchantments(or artifacts either in Black's Case).
A rule change I wouldn't mind: you can activate ALL Ninjutsu abilities from the command zone, but it counts as "casting" the card for the the purpose of the commander tax (effects that trigger on casting spells still wouldn't trigger) Pauper commander allow ANY uncommon creature as your commander Infect is weird because unlike life points, only the Infect player is attacking on that side when with incidental damage (fetch, mana crypt, combat damage, ancient tomb, etc). 10 poison is good if there's only 1 person playing infect, but it might be too low if the whole table is running it
Regarding the multiple colors punishment... I DESPISE playing agaisnt a 5 color good stuff deck in 50% of my tables. Not everyone has a stablished playgroup like you guys, and strangers REALLY dig 5c good stuff for some wicked reason. It feels deprived of flavor and style as well, they're just playing "the best available" instead of an actual deck with a concept.
On the going first question, my pod does similar with the rolling scry for 2 and 3, last doesn't scry, but starts as the monarch. We also roll to pick our position instead of who goes first.
Completely agree with Seth on wish cards. The problem with Richard’s ‘silver bullets in the 99’ response is they take up a card slot and arnt always relevant. If you can wish out any artifact for example karn is immediately a tutor for any kind of hate piece imaginable while only using one spot.
The big difference between tutors and wishes is, that tutors actually take a spot in the 99 and wishes actually dont because you just have your sideboard, so you technically dont loose a card spot with wishes and people would abuse it... Noone will play janky stuff in Sideboard -> im pro not having wishes
I feel like wish style effects aren't really in the spirit of commander being an 100 card format. The limitation for tutors are that you still have to play the card *in* your deck. It's not feasible to run 100 niche answers for specific problems, you have to pick and choose based on theme, power level, price, and priority, etc. The 100 cards is a limitation that breeds creativity. But with wish cards, you *always* have the answer. I feel like some of the most fun and unique puzzles and challenges I've had in commander would immediatly crumble to the constant presence of a 'perfect answer' card.
The thing about wishes is that they impose additional deckbuilding burdens on everyone. Even if I play 0 wish cards, I need to have a wishboard for the 1% chance I steal/copy a wish from an opponent through some unintended interaction. (For example, Hive Mind, Narset's Reversal, Memory Plunder, etc.) That means every deck going forward needs to be 105 or whatever the new number is, or you're just playing sub-optimally.
We've experimented with three different ways to introduce the monarch by default in some of my playgroups. The first is first blood, which heavily favors the first player. The second is whoever plays their Commander first, which still favors the first player but has some balance factors that made it feel a little bit better. For example it encouraged playing the commander out when maybe it wasn't as protected or not part of a combo. However it made more expensive commanders less attractive. The third was to give it to the player who went last both to introduce monarch and also give them a slight benefit for going last. This was more complicated because it ended up often the case that they were getting beaten up or losing it right away due to the tempo the other players had on them. It also was frequently abused to accelerate graveyard combos because of the need to discard almost guaranteed. In truth the best way I've found to guarantee there's always some element of the monarch in my games is that I just play monarch cards in every single one of my decks 🤷
One that I wanted to try but we didn't get to play around with too much was the monarch was whoever won the last game or a die roll if there was no previous game
The downside to infect is that you are the only one doing infect damage. You now have to deal 30 damage by yourself. But commander Vultron at least still deals normal damage and you can close out the game without it.
If the turn 1 player was the monarch but couldnt draw naturally until they lost it, it would lessen the turn 1 players starting power(drawing first card at end of turn is worse than at start). And the turn 4 player usually won't suffer as people tend to swing to get the monarch. Early no blockers. Not perfect, but does lessen the gap between turn 1 and turn 4.
I think to me the idea of combining Commander damage (even if it means increasing it to 40 total commander damage (starting health)) would be a good change. Especially with the rise of 2 commander decks (Friends Forever, Partner With, Partner), it can be extremely convoluted to remember all the damage that has been applied. I've had a game where I was tracking 8 different commanders on a single player, from commanders being shuffled around by cards like Confusion in the Ranks and lots of goading. The other thing with combining it all and rising the total damage required is that it reduces the risk of getting randomly ousted by a commander and makes it more of a removal versus decks that can remain at full health regardless of damage taken.
In the tutor discussion... Richard, you have to get that putting cards in a sideboard protects them from hate, right? Like, you have to be smart enough to get that? Yes, you're definitely going to play X spike playline, but it's harder to gunk up now because a key part is hidden away in the sb
I think I’m good on the idea of a typical sideboard for wish cards. Lessons should be allowed if Companions are allowed, but both are pretty narrow card pools, so they curate themselves and self-contain their own power level and nip homogeny concerns in the bud. A sideboard that could just contain any cards would not have those safeguards. As far as Richard/Crim’s idea that wishes should just be able to get any card from your collection.... *HELL. NO.* That is the most insane take I’ve ever heard on this podcast. Sure, let’s just have a few slots in your deck that can just be any card that exists, ever, so the whole concept of thoughtful deck building and diversity just evaporates, and anyone can respond to anything that’s happening at any time. And let’s encourage people even harder to only play 5-color, so they can build decks with 5-10 wishes, and that can be the new homogenous norm, and building any other way would just straight up be incorrect. That sounds absolutely terrible. And it’s the opposite of future-proof. If they kept printing more and more wish cards, and they will, eventually every commander deck would just be wish cards. I would stop playing commander, period, if wish cards could get anything. Golos was bad for the format because it encouraged homogeny. Wish cards being able to get any card you own would be that problem on a colossal scale and kill the format entirely.
This is a great podcast episode... While I was watching, I thought of this rules change that can both introduce the monarch and give the last player an advantage... The first players gains the monarch at their end step (so they don't get the extra card) and all their opponents get 1/1 creature token that sacrifices itself when it deals damage... If every opponent getting a creature is too much, we can make it so only the last player gains the token... I thought that by doing it like this, nothing is added to the board that is very impactful (like extra mana with treasures) but provides significant advantage for the players that are not the first in turn order...
Suggestion for the Monarch: The game starts with a monarch token that has: "Pay 3: Become the Monarch. Play only as a sorcery, and only if this ability has not been activated before"
I think this just buffs player one even more, because player one will get three mana before the other players assuming no one ramps, so naturally player 1 will have the strongest starts most games. It will also change how people construct their decks, people will want to run cheap flyers and unblockable creatures to take the monarch, not inherently good or bad, but different.
I like the Idea of adding Monarch as a sort of "community commander" Have it available for all players to put Monarch into play for 3 CMC as long as its not already in play.
You could set up a 'Ghost Fifth Player' who doesn't have a life total or take any game actions, but has the Monarch, and ceases to be when dethroned, if you want to include Monarch. But honestly, just play some Monarch cards. I don't think turn order really has a huge impact on your chances of winning the game.
Crim had the perfect counterargument for sideboards at 22:45. "I have to play something narrow [if I want to stop somebody in a particular way]." EXACTLY. That's the whole point of an upper bound to deck size. Every card in your deck has an opportunity cost of a slot that now can't be used for other cards. Opening up sideboards basically expands your deck size without diluting your actual deck. Demonic tutor et al represent redundancy for cards already in your deck that you have spent a slot on, wish cards represent a nebulous, yet-undecided amount of cards that you have otherwise decided not to run in your deck if you want to run null rod, put it in your deck. It's 99 cards (plus commander). If you don't expect to need it you might get wrecked by artifact/treasure decks sometimes. That's the cost of having access to narrow cards
I agree, having wishes in the format would bring nothing but increasing power levels and homogenous gameplay. I tried it in a commander league where we allowed 10 card wish boards for a time, and they were used exclusively for Karn locks and wishing for combo finishes. The rule lasted 2 leagues, a total of 12 weeks before everyone got sick of it
Lower life totals seem like a slam dunk. Many decks such as all non-combo tribes like warriors, minotaurs ect.. just aren't playable even at low powered tables.
For game length: chess clock. Hear me out. Everyone has a countdown timer and if yours drops to 0, you're out. If you set everyone's to 15 minutes then you know for a fact that the longest your game will go is one hour. You can set them to whatever and work your way down to a time that works for your play group. Games are taking less turns but sometimes just as long due to lengthy decision making. If you have a combo that's awesome but you better know that combo inside and out because time is ticking
Have have you guys considered playing the commander variant format Conquest ? It implements many of the rules you guys discussed today to try and make a more balanced format. Lower life totals, the scry rule, and a more balanced ban lists ( fast mana, tutors) . Including ban as commander. Overall I believe it achieves a more fair format. With less feel bads. Since people don’t have to self regulate themselves.
So regarding the rule about combining commander damage and you guys fearing that voltron will become too powerful, how often do you see more than 1 voltron deck at the table at a time?
I think some sort of partner mechanic where mono colored commanders could partner with another mono colored commander of the same color could be cool, but I'm pretty sure there has to be something broken with that, like a setup/payoff pair that's really hard to get rid of in time or a critical mass combo that's way too consistent. I also think that Tergrid players would find another legendary creature to make you hate their Tergrid deck even more.
How to introduce Monarch - Player 1 skips their first draw but gets Monarch. Player 4 can start with the Initiative during their upkeep, if you really want to get wild.
i think its funny that some people are talking about how going first is too much of an advantage and you're here saying player 1 should start with the monarchy
I understand trying to make commander damage simpler, I have played a game where 8 partners were involved, but I find it annoying when I am trying to use my commander that gets attack triggers or value on combat damage and I accidentally kill someone, so I really don't want to make that scenario easier
Didn't see the poll, but how about this to make stuff like fetches, shocklands and tutors actual decisions: paying life lowers your "commander damage threshold". Like, your starting threshold is 21 (standard) and if you shock in a land it goes down to 19.
The RC said the reason why Infect is still at 10 in EDH is because all it is best at is taking out 1 person so it needed a buff considering it would honestly be too weak to take out the whole table if it was increased to 20 infect counters. Let's not forget that the moment you blow someone up with infect is the moment the rest of the table gangs up on you to take you out as you are the weakest with no more resources but you have infect so you are still a threat. And even if you are not still a threat you are easy prey plus no one likes alt wincons like that in the first place, basically infect needed to stay at 10 because feels bad the table would have as just like Slivers they would still fear you
The legendary non-legend rule could be like the color identity rule. Give permanents a "legendary identity" so if any part of them is a legendary creature it's fair to use as a commander.
My play group is considering allowing any creature as a "Champion" for your commander. It is played as a legend for purposes of that game it doesn't give commander damage though.
A lot of commander rule change suggestions come from people that would be better off playing a 60c format Hybrid mana? No color restrictions Wish cards? A format with a sideboard
I think since you can play creatures that transform into noncreatures (Origins Planeswalkers, new Innistrad Legends) the reverse should be allowed. Also, all the Kaldheim Gods already wrecked the whole "sentient" argument for commanders, because there's enough prismatic bridge decks that don't even know what Esika does. I think something like the new O-Kagachi would be a cool commander
If commander damage "won" the game instead of "you lose" it would be far more impactful and interactive. That way you wouldn't need to individually track on a per person thing. Each commander WINS if he does 21/30 total damage to someone etc. This removes the 1 person being eleminated. Removes the team aspect.
@@sirrslipp would also encourage more preventative fogs for other people. Makes more lore sense too, seeing a commander leading his ranks on the frontline is more likely to make them want to give up/swap sides than seeing a "advisor" sitting in a chair throwing their lives and lands away (chump blocking/sacing).
Love this, I'd love to have a group that's down with Community Comander, where all of the popular rules changes like hybrid mana, silver bordered, more than 100 cards, and 7 card side boards are allowed. Could also rotate some of the other suggestions like infect and comander color identity +1, I think it'd be fun once I get the chance to play some magic again.
Unlimited sideboards would be awful every single deck in commander could run Karn Mycosynth lattice and every single artifact stax piece in existence and it would be optimal to do so 😭, obviously learn effects grabbing lessons wouldn’t be broken at all but the addition of the wish effects to the format would just add more tutors which you guys have recognized as a net negative. The INconsistency of commander is what makes it fun and this would be directly lowering said inconsistency.
If you try to compensate the person going 4th, 3rd is going to become the new 4th, and so on. If we keep arguing the format is casual and we should self-police/adjust deck construction to the power level we want to play, do we really care about the advantage of going first that much that we need to insert some compensation? Isn't that just a conversation for cEDH (if at all)?
An unlimited sideboard? Now there's a logistical nightmare just waiting to happen. Would most people bring their entire collection to use as a sideboard? No. Would enough people do it to be a colossal problem and all around headache? Yes, yes they definitely would. >
I think part of what makes commander fun is the lack of consistency. I think a wishboard would be way too consistent. Of course I also think a lot of tutors should be banned so there’s that
Add to that any fetches and tutors, and it slows down games even more. More cards on the table also means that if a deck falls over, it's more cards going everywhere and it also reduces the likelyhood of someone either decking themselves or being milled out (which can be a good or a bad thing depending on your point of view of course). But even just the issue of games taking longer the moment someone fetches or tutors makes me think more than a 100 is not a good idea.
I think sideboards would just end up being a toolbox of stax pieces. People don't want to always run stuff like Rest In Peace or Null Rod because they're symmetrical and potentially dead draws depending on what decks are at the table. But sideboards eliminate the opportunity cost and will allow people to shutdown certain decks a lot easier.
the problem with wishes is then commander needs sideboard hate cause otherwise you place your pieces in this uninteractable space and dont worry about mill or discard.
I already prefer to go 4th, if the rolling scry was an official rule I'd never want anything else. Scry 3, after seeing how people are planning to play, is incredibly powerful.
29:00 Love this point. My playgroup is very casual and we play with the rules and ban list a bunch. One of them built Balor from CBG as commander and it’s sick and feels flavorfully correct still. We’ve also allowed things like an all sorceries and lands deck with Jadzi from Strixhaven as commander.
I'm really with Crim and Richard on the wish mechanics. The card should do what it says and when I was a little Timmy 15 years ago starting to play magic. Things that said I could grab a card from "outside of the game" were incredible. If commander is the fun format, you have to understand that 90% of commander players will be excited grabbing the perfect card for the situation or just some huge Timmy card that they just want to play. The 10% that grab the null rod or nasty piece are playing with people who know those kinds of effects are ok the table. You can't create rules that will stop grimey players from being grimey. So let everyone else just read their cards and play the game. This would also mean not grabbing things from exile, because exile is still in the game. Only cards outside the game in your shoe box.
No, people love to think about what "they" would do if they could wish. But in reality, the majority of people will just bring a silver bullet side board that uses a bunch of narrow cards that didn't make the initial cut but will absolutely destroy a game in the right circumstance. And I say this as a Black player who would love to play Mastermind's Acquisition. As much as I love Wishes, the format is better off without them.
Biggest problem to me with comparing wishes to "just another tutor" is its not, they dont search your libary so running burning wish isnt tutor 3+ its searching somewhere completly differnt, so if you made a limited sideboard that still has to follow singleton with your deck its not "yet another way to get x card" because if that cards in your deck you cant get it, and if its in your sideboard you can only get it with a wish also wishes at least (obviusly not things like karn) tend to say "exile this card" on resolution so actualy the more wishes you run instead of normal tutors the less tutors you techincaly have because they are harder to recure from the graveyard
We house ruled the outside the game thing in my playgroup. One if my buddies had a deck with spawnsire of Ulamog as the wincon. He bought a stack of about 50 cheap eldrazi that he would dump on the table when he went off. I thought it was hilarious
EDH, as a casual format, should allow Silver-Border cards. The Silver-Border cards were ONLY supposed to be banned from TOURNAMENT FORMAT. EDH is supposed to be the fun playground where you get to use all your cards. Make Silver-Border cards legal, and allow players to Rule Zero them out - if they don't want them.
i think its fine as is for silver bordered cards to be opt-in rather than opt-out. don't think i'm alone in saying i'd rather not be running into 1½/1½s, Bureaucracy, cards with Gotcha, Common Courtesy, or god forbid a Rules Lawyer. the list goes on
From memory, the reason 'Banned as Commander' was removed, is because MTGO couldn't handle it (or simply they were too lazy to figure out the coding for it) For Rofellos specifically, I honestly don't think he's even that problematic as a commander anymore. You'd rather not limit yourself to monogreen when you can play more colors. However I believe The RC aren't willing to ban or unban anything on the RL because of the price spikes and crashes it would cause, and amount of players it would inevitably upset.
The strongest decks are 3 or 4 or 5 colors. 3 color op commanders, 4 color duo partners, 5 color golos banned kenrith etc. 5 color decks are usually weaker than 3 or 4 because of mana base. Honestly "non-basic lands" cards punish 5 color decks WAY harder than 2 or 3. Back to basics/blood moon kills 5 color but barely even affect mono colored decks.
I don't understand why the penalty for 5c got upvoted. Running 5c is already a big disadvantage. it takes forever for my Garth deck to be relevant. It has a good mana base to bring garth out on curve most of the time, but still, that is turn 5 before things start to happen. I like the idea of introducing monarch to the game. Every suggestion you guys suggested has its pros and cons. My group does first blood. The issue is generally that means the first person gets monarch as they are the most likely to play a creature first. But then if they attack with it right away they are open to someone else cracking back to get the monarch. So it is still a slight advantage to the first player but it makes the game more interesting.
Hmm, interesting idea. My concern would be that it might incentivize the table to try to kill the person that stumbles on mana or gets off to a slow start though.
@@MTGGoldfish but are you at that point the player with the most life? cause if no, you also loose the game^^ just imagine someone playing an instant that gives him 2 life and cause of that he wins xD
I would love to have planeswalker commanders besides just a hand full. Even if you had planeswalkers as your commander you would still have to have green in the color pie to use doubling season. I have amanatou superfriends and i do fine without the big doublers.
8:18 Uhhhh Guys? You DO realize if griselbrand dies and hes your commander you can just choose not to put him in the command zone and leave him in the graveyard......right? For reanimation purposes? And if anyone ever yeets your GY THEN you can re-place him in command zone? Moving to command zone is not a forced interaction lol. Its just the common sense thing to do in 99% of cases.
You all should have a series where you try out all these different rules and see how they actually play in practice. 1 game try any legendary as commander. Then the next game try combined commander damage and so on.
Having to store extra cards for SB beyond the 100 seems like it really breaks the spirit of the format. It's supposed to just be 100 cards. That's why everyone hates Companions in Commander - that was a mistake. I don't think allowing a SB creates any more fun in the format. Like, it's just more (and more powerful) tutors. And it allows for more than one copy of a card, which breaks the spirit of Commander even more. Allowing Wishes to get cards from exile is quite possibly the worst version of that rule. People are just gonna loop Teferi's Protection and all the other spells that exile themselves. EDIT: I think combining Commander damage is fine, but it would have to be upped to 30. Richard is going off about combos, but literally everyone still attacks. Richard is just remembering one specific game. EDIT2: Richard: "Your deck doesn't work unless other people help you out? What?" Also Richard: "Let other people deal with threats for you."
I love finding a way to add monarch to every game and no max deck size are both amazing… No one can shuffle 100 cards so what’s 420?! The rules committee thinks prime time is a problem but keeps dockside? Never changing unfortunately
The typical flow of a MTG Goldfish Commander debate:
Seth: (totally reasonably) statement A
Richard: actually, the exact opposite of statement A
Crim: the exact opposite of statement A, BUT in a way that pisses off the whole table
Tomer: ok, guys. But what about…statement A?
this except theyre competing for who gets to talk
Do Do
I like goldfather to acknowledge the mtg goldfish connection. But codfather includes the fish aspect better
Admiral Anchovie!
I hear this a lot "oh everyone combos no one attacks." "The combat step is weak." "Ow stop hitting me so I die a turn before I combo off."
I know I'm getting so tired of this line from Richard, it's like dude you only win games through combat damage what are you even talking about? That is literally always Richard's single wincon.
He's not wrong. Combo decks dominate the format
Richard, 'When a lowly guy works their way up the 'corporate ladder'" - they are becoming Legendary. That is the Kamigawa flipcard.
Some great suggestions discussed. After having played a couple decades, the best change idea ive heard came from reddit a couple weeks ago now. It was that commander tax can be paid separate from the commander itself to put the commander into hand at sorcery speed, similar to nerfed companion rules. It would allow for larger commanders to still be playable after dying a couple times. I would add that this rule would only apply after the commander has been played once, paying 0 to add something to hand immediately would break it. But being able to pay 4 one turn then 6 the next for your commander is much more feasible than 10 mana in a single turn.
Hmm, that's an interesting idea. I'd have to think more about it, but my initial reaction is that it would probably be a positive. It doesn't seem overpowered, but does let people have access to their commanders more often, especially expensive ones.
@@MTGGoldfish my playgroup plans on play testing the change as soon as our schedules line up, I’m hopeful
That's a really cool idea, some games you end up losing because you just can't recast for the umpteenth time, and if you wanted to play your Commander that turn, it's the same amount anyways. It's not like high MV Commanders are running rampant at the moment, it's rare to see anything over 4 MV I feel like, 5 is pushing things, 6 is shocking now.
That would also make cards like tezimoc (the mono black dinosaur) and other random commanders that need to be in your hand way better.
@@Dataloss484 indeed :) would also spike the prices of any card that puts creatures from hand into play. I feel allowing big commanders again is worth opening up a new type of shenanigans
On the topic of infect - at a typical table there will only be 1 infect deck. So there will be 3 players attacking the 40 life total while only one person is attacking with infect damage. I’m not an infect player, but it doesn’t need to be changed. As far as I’m concerned it’s much more difficult to win with infect then regular damage.
Triumph of the horde disagrees
@@jamescooley5241 one card that is often run outside of infect does not disprove an argument.
triumph of the horde could have the same buffs without the infect and just say if a player takes 10 or more damage this turn they lose and it would be almost exactly the same.
This assumes that all players are ganging up on infect and/or using their removal on them. Would that often happen, and if it does, what does it say about infect that they automatically become archenemy from just playing that archetype?
@@zanesebo7288 I’d say that the fact that they become the archenemy at the table speaks much more to the state of casual commander mindset as opposed to the power level of infect. Think about it - most casual commander tables HATE alternative win cons. Mill? Archenemy. Combo? Archenemy. Stax? Archenemy. Infect? Archenemy. The reason being that a lot of casual players just like to play their battle cruiser magic and don’t like when something different is introduced into the equation. Mill and infect are so much lower on the power level scale then combo, stax, and even regular old beats. It has nothing to do with power level and everything to do with a long standing, and frankly unfounded, stigma against alt win cons.
@@jefftaylor8077 I'm glad that your tables are so united, but it is not often I see everyone agree to take a person out just because of the deck archetype they are playing. The whole table ganging up on the mill player? Unlikely. When these decks prove to be threatening, that's when you might see the table start to shift focus, but I don't see a mill player get hated out early on. For Stax and Combo, Stax is just not fun to play against for your average casual player, so that can lead to getting hated out. Players also always need to be wary of combo decks because they can have explosive turns despite not having much of a physical board presence. Is that playing archenemy? No, but it can seem that way to a combo player if they are being attacked or having their value creatures destroyed. The alternative is they are left alone in their durdling until they pull out a win with their grip of cards they've been creating for several turns. I don't believe it's a hate of alternative win cons, but moreso decks don't have a lot of counterplay to these decks built into their own decks either because they are obscure or their deck doesn't have the right kind of removal to deal with it. When that's the case, player removal is the only real option.
If wish grabbed things from exile, people would loop teferi’s protection, or expropriate.
People win with those cards regardless, a three mana sorcery isn’t gonna break them insofar as they already are broken.
Looping those is already possible with the white 1 mana value instant. You just need to also recur it from the graveyard afterwards (very easy for blue decks).
no i think this person's right we don't want to make this any easier to do. besides do we really want to make exile into a 2nd graveyard or do we want it to have an actual purpose. gonna have to break out AWOL from unhinged to deal with this threat
Also that simply nullifies the drawback of extra turn spells that exile themselves, or mechanics that exile cards like delve or flashback.
if wish grabbed things from your collection people would just own four extra copies of expropriate
(i completely agree with you but the additional factor of breaking singleton makes the "anything from your collection" option especially ridiculous)
The thing about artifacts like thrumming stone as your commander is they’d have colorless color identity, making them far worse than they actually seem
This is a good point for artifacts for sure. Thrumming Stone would actually be a super bad commander I guess.
I play a Pyromancers Goggles commander deck and being mono-red is a real restriction. There are a lot fewer 3+ color non-creature cards than you'd think.
The main thing though is that there's a much lower chance that someone will board wipe or hold removal that can address it.
@@MTGGoldfish Sword of the Animist and Eye of Vecna seem like they’d be pretty good though; gives options for colorless decks for cheap card draw and ramp in the command zone
And lands as well, they were talking about gaeas cradle but it would not be as good without gree,
@@barrinburg612 Gaea's Cradle has a green color identity....
Every pod I’ve ever played in, combat matters tremendously. Prison effects matter, cards like Inkshield matter, combat tricks are crucial. I think there are a much higher percentage of pods who play super casual, battlecruiser/on board type of edh than you think (Richard) 😂 not *every* creature is there for attacking or defending, but this is how we win more often than not. During combat, and what results from it. And we like it that way.
Wish: Tutors already go against the spirit of the format, i.e., embracing variance, but most importantly, they provide silver bullets in your deckbuilding without paying any opportunity cost. It's okay to play silver bullets that can negate your opponents' entire strategy, but it should come at the cost of being a dead card slot and a dead draw when no one plays that strategy. WIshes dodge that downside. A friend of mine uses Rule 0 to play them, and it feels unfair everytime. "Play more graveyard hate" will become "Play more wishes".
I play second rite of Hidetsugu in every red deck that I have. Wishes make this card actually playable
I rule 0 a wish card but its objectivly bad and is only for flavor. Its a dual faced card research something. It costs UR and lets me shuffle 4 cards into my deck not even in hand. I use it to bring more elementals into my deck like primalcrux and elderwood scion cards that are absolutly not silver bullets jus a way to get more variance. Ive never seen a playgroup not be okay with that even though i have a 200 plus card sidebord. My sidebord is jus cards that werent quite good enough to fit into main decks of several different elemental tribal decks ive tried to make and whenever i recently take cards from a deck i put em in my box and eventually cycle em out for new elementals. I wont ever take more than 15 secs lookin through my sideboard cus i jus add flavorfull cards to deck. I dont need this to be an official rule cus it wouldnt be used like how i use em. People would cut a gy hate or removal spell throw it in the side with a couple other silver bullets and never worry about your decks weakness again. I dont want yugioh were you got a 15 card extra deck basicly and your heavily disadvantaged if you dont at least use it.
Banned as Commander was problematic to program for MTGO would be my guess as to a 'real' reason.
I always thought this was the reason because I remember times when updates happened on MTGO and messed up the banned as commander list and for a time they could be your commander
There are 69 (nice) Planeswalkers currently with Green in their color, and 181 Planeswalkers without any Green at all
EDIT: Of those 69 containing Green, 10 of them are Golgari, so Carth the Lion is already probably taking that Commander slot; 4 of them already have "CARDNAME can be your Commander"; and then 1 of them is Nissa, Vastwood Seer/Nissa, Sage Animist
Seth: "I worry about one player getting ganged up"
Also Seth: Gangs up on one player consistently
The problem with wish for me is like what seth said a lot of silver bullet cards that you dont have to run in your deck making it worse. Atleast with a tutor you have to have it in the 99 with the chance that you draw it when it isn't good. An example of this is i can wish for boil and blow out the blue players, but if im in a pod with zero blue players i never have to commit to having the card in my deck. If you are going to run random hate i would atleast like you to commit to having it in your deck and making a deck making decision instead of just running it in the sideboard
I totally agree! The format is about deck restrictions. One of the restrictions is trade offs on running narrow or niche cards. Also adding a sideboard makes it a 108 card or 116 card format. (allowing for companions) I didn't like the idea of companions, they were cool, but it changed the heart of the format a bit. I like the format because it is 100 card singleton no sideboard, it makes it less min/max and it strikes a nice balance. I get that some cards and mechanics are not useful but it was stated that the RC doesn't want to make sweeping changes for corner cases. In this case I agree.
It also punishes you for drawing one off cards that you include for other reasons. I'm thinking of the Razaketh deck I have where I've been trying to fill it with things like tainted strike for a one hit kill, or Not of this World for protection. Problem is when you draw it in the beginning 7 turns of the game where it just rots in your hand, but that's solved with just running masterminds acquisition, then I can grab it out of my sideboard or get something to ramp if I'm not there yet.
Edit: that being said, I do like the idea of trying sideboards, same with a bunch of other stuff.
It also means you can build a wincon less deck, and just wish for your wincon from outside the game. It literally protects your wincon from being touched
totally disagree, simply because commander desperately needs people to play more hate and everyone having a hate wish list with no opportunity cost means we get more interaction in games.
@@jacobchesney1558 what are you talking about? who is milling out your table so often that a card not being in your 99 is extra protection? that is absolutely not an extr level of protection against anything but a mill player.
The only reason I've ever wanted to pull from any card in my collection is specifically for Spawnsire of Ulamog. I wanted so badly ever since I saw that card back in the day that I could live that dream and never could 😭
Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't understand the doubling season concern with planeswalkers. Did you guys forget about color restrictions? I don't think it's as bad of an issue as you guys are making.
definitely what I was thinking. doubling season is dangerous sure... but in planeswalker run decks it'd ONLY apply to green color planeswalkers so...??? how many of those are super dangerous with it?
Arlinn, Embraced by the Moon
Domri Rade (needs to survive 1 round)
Domri, Chaos Bringer
Ellywick Tumblestrum
Garruk, Caller of Beasts
Garruk, Cursed Huntsman
Garruk, Primal Hunter
Garruk, Unleashed
Kiora, Master of the Depths
Nissa, Who Shakes the World
Oko just being your commander in general...
Tamiyo, Compleated Sage
Tamiyo, Field Researcher
Vivien Reid
Vraska, Golgari Queen
Vraska, Relic Seeker (kills 1 player at a time)
a couple more have some potential problematic stuff but these ones are 100% dangerous with emblems, land dumping, essentially instant win stuff, etc. some of these are fairly expensive commanders HOWEVER they're in green... so I'd say even though there's a green restriction going on it'd open a fucking nightmare door for commanders where you suddenly need to worry about all these and more in other colors who dont need doubling season to be horrific to play against.
@@thatepicwizardguy you forgot to mention samut which immediately tutors any 2 card creature combo onto the field and effectively wins immediately and part of the problem with planswalker 2 card combos is most of them are almost impossible to interact without blue because priority
@@leviponce7730 “I play doubling season, then my commander, I win!”
W: disenchant
U: counters or bounce
B: debt to the kami
R: chaos warp
G: naturalize
There ARE answers, and that’s assuming it doesn’t self police anyway.
I completely agree with Seth on sideboards. It would add way too much consistency and tutoring to a singleton format, and it also has logistically problems, like that you have to go get new sleeves for all your existing decks and potentially find bigger deck boxes.
the unlimited sideboard aspect would completely nullify any need for that, and 100 card decks are already as consistent as you want them to be in magics current state which is exactly what richard was saying.
more casual players CHOOSE not to make insane fucking decks which they could just netdeck and need no skill to put together or even play most of the time. adding wishes and whatnot doesn't affect the casual folk, it doesnt really affect the competitive scene since their decks are already nutso, so who does it hit? semi competitive decks by some margin? who cares? there's a chance somebody bombs you out in a game cuz they can pull some wish nonsense but suddenly they're actually LOSING slots in their deck to have flex wish slots and those wishes if unlimited would be a headache for a lot of players who would probably choose not to even bother and just put in the stuff they wanted to put in TBH.
most players value convenience and fun over flat power.
The "penalty" for playing multiple colors is looking at the problem from the wrong perspective. I don't believe its something we can fix cleanly with mechanics. WotC needs to print more cards that properly incentivize more limited color decks like Commander's Plate. Or even burn spells that do more damage based on opponents color identities, some kind of color hate. I truly think that's the least complex way the problem is addressed.
I definitely agree that a reward system is better than a punishment system, especially one that doesn't modify the rules. Promoting more mono colored strategies with powerful devotion payoffs, higher pipped cards, things like War Room. Imagine if Smothering Tithe was 1WWW instead of 3W. It would have a real cost to go into multicolored piles and probably be less egregious.
Yeah, I think there really should be more cards that have effects that benefits from having less colors. It could be based on your commander’s colors, like Commander’s Plate, but even on land types and colors you control/in your graveyard/in hand so it’s functional even outside of commander. These exist but there should a lot more.
I’m surprised there aren’t more stax pieces that do this too. Something like an inverse of Mana Maze, as in something that locks players into only playing spells that share colors.
@@eyeh0 Do you mean like Hall of Gemstone? I don't think stax would be the right route for encouraging monocolor. Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Ruination all exist and people seem to get upset when I cast them. Rewards are always going to be the better system of gameplay incentives for encouraging play patterns. Don't introduce punishment cards for play patterns you don't like, create more rewards for patterns you do like.
The way I try to punish "greedy" Commanders, is by using nonbasic land hate. I do love me some Price of Progress or Ruination. But I agree that we need more of that.
The wish takes were genuinely insane. When you include a hate piece to tutor for in your deck, you risk drawing it when it isn't relevant. Wishes don't even have that downside. The last thing we need is "tutors but even more broken"
tutors aren't broken to begin with.
Tutors aren't broken and are good for commander, as they reduce variance and increase deck diversity. Wishes aren't good for commander in my opinion, in so far as they grab things from outside the game. I think if wishes could grab from exile that would be fair, and interesting. But they probably wouldn't see play regardless.
@@jadegrace1312Reduce variance? It’s a singleton format. The whole point of singleton is _increasing_ variance compared to other formats. And I don’t know what you mean by increasing deck diversity.
I loved the any card in uour collection idea. Cards as printed.
@@Crunchatize_Me_SenpaiI'm guessing they mean that there are certain decks which are pretty underpowered but can work if they are able to tutor up a specific piece.
Honestly I think the examples used for "flip-into-a-legendary" were pretty neat from a flavor perspective.
Like, having Erbus as your commander is like you have Withengar leading his cultists from inside his prison. That's a super flavorful sort of Eldritch storyline being told right there about Withengar using his disciples to free himself from his prison *during* your session. That sounds awesome! Ormendahl as well.
With Kenzo the Hardhearted it's a story of a regular fish-out-of-water soldier who feels way out of his depth but he's in charge of this whole army because someone *saw* something in him. All he needs is to grow into his role and he'll be a commander that we can all believe in!
I think stories like this absolutely belong at a commander table and I honestly don't see a big issue of power level, even with Ormendahl.
Exactly. In Lord of the Rings, the evil army isn't being led by a tower with an eye on top of it, they're being led by Sauron, who happens to be trapped in the tower. Same thing for Erebus. You aren't being led by a dagger, your leader is a demon who is trying to escape from a dagger.
I always thought that commander damage is 21 because it’s more than 50% of the life total.
You lose a game for having 0 or less life, not less than 0 life. If "half" is the philosophy behind it, then it should be 20.
I think a Wish Board is very dangerous. What happens when you can essentially add 400 more tutors to your deck? Also, you can make your win conditions Praetor’s Grasp-proof.
The 2 problems I have with wishes is 1) it’s another copy. Like it isn’t just a tutor. It lets you play 2 fierce guardianships or 2 rhystic studies and things like this. And 2) since it doesn’t tutor from the 99, it breaks the “scarcity” of choosing which 99 cards to put in your deck. Like how many times have we heard that X card just didn’t make the cut?
I do wish the lessons worked though :(
Richard suggesting playing wishes as printed blows my mind. That would be so warping it would hardly even be the same format. I can imagine it being some competitive player’s wet dream, but I would be running for the hills.
the format has already been warped like crazy. who cares at this point? just dont play the game that way if you dont want to.
@SilverAlex
1 There would be no opportunity cost to putting cards into your wishboard pile. That's extremely broken
2 it would be gross pay-to-win
3 the logistics of building, finding a box for, transporting, and most of all playing those decks would be a nightmare
Also, because there are so few wishes, decks will probable have to be 4-5 colors
Sorry for the spamming, but I think you mistake wishes as written for tutors. Think of it like this: you don’t tutor for a tutor, but you would tutor for a wish.
Is strongly disagree that a wish (with an infinite sideboard) is even close to a tutor in power level. Let’s just cut to the chase, would you not feel you need to build a 5color deck, with a minimum of say 500 silver bullet in your wishboard?
A part of me does sympathize with not wanting making formats too bureaucratic but Banned as Commander should be the exception to this.
I think something along the lines of 4 objects/cards that players pick in reverse turn order would be interesting. Something like treasure, clue, food, and monarch (could be adjusted). Forth player picks first.
This is a super elegant solution. I also appreciate that this (especially with the inclusion of monarch) speeds up the game.
Honestly the health change start actually punishes combo decks the most and rewards aggro. A lot of combo decks use their health to combo off. With lower health you can't go off as easily.
It’s obvious that combo decks dominate this format too. It’s shocking that the R.C. isn’t addressing this.
@@sirrslipp combo decks dominate all formats because they are perfect value decks. Every deck is looking for synergy between its cards, combo decks just have the perfect synergy. Its when that combo is 2 cards(usually a commander and 1 deck card) and wins on the spot or generates so much value that its ALWAYS getting a third card that translates it into a win. For instance, godo plus helm. Wins in 2 cards.
Kinnen and any mana source that he makes go infinite. He self tutors out the win cons himself. He can even tutor out 2 or 3 convert colorless into colored mana cards to go infiniterer.
@@peytonmillner6417 Nice
Your season recaps have influenced our play group to collect data. Our data shows out of 123 games that the player who plays 4th wins as much as going 1st. 3rd is woefully behind and I believe that this is because the player in 4th is usually viewed as being behind and end up not being attacked or having their permanents destroyed. Something to think about
Genuine Question: Why do people dislike bans so much?
If the argument is to introduce more cards into the format, don’t we hundreds every year anyways?
Aren’t there alternatives?
Most often there aren't alternatives because wizards makes an effort to not reprint effects that got banned before. And arguably a more important reason is that some formats, including commander, aren't meant to rotate. If you start banning liberally you not only take away cool cards, but you force people to constantly buy more cards, and if they wanted to do that they would play standard.
@@josephblattert6311 Every time a card gets banned in Commander, it seems like we can see it coming. If a card just seems to regressive or too good, I probably won't play it and trade it away before I feel like it is going to get banned anyways.
Banning 100 cards could make 1000s more viable.
If banning a card opens the door for more. I’m here for it. Diversity in deck lists is part of the fun of commander after all.
Completely agree with Seth on wishes. Would be too powerful.
Same here
Alternative for Lesson/Learn mechanic: change the Learn spells to let you search your library for a Lesson instead of make a new wishboard. Tutor for mediocre spells seems functionally the same aside from negligible deck thinning & shuffles
The powerlevel of lessons are way too low to run in mainboards
@@Aronia55 That's why this is a great solution! There's an actual tradeoff for Learn cards while still letting them function... creating a wishboard for them (syllabus?) just gives free value for the few Learn spells that are borderline playable already.
Maybe to avoid too extreme sideboard interaction only allow lessons?
@@Aronia55 except for a few specific ones like Introduction to Annihilation in decks without white or green since they don't have many answers to things like enchantments(or artifacts either in Black's Case).
A rule change I wouldn't mind: you can activate ALL Ninjutsu abilities from the command zone, but it counts as "casting" the card for the the purpose of the commander tax (effects that trigger on casting spells still wouldn't trigger)
Pauper commander allow ANY uncommon creature as your commander
Infect is weird because unlike life points, only the Infect player is attacking on that side when with incidental damage (fetch, mana crypt, combat damage, ancient tomb, etc). 10 poison is good if there's only 1 person playing infect, but it might be too low if the whole table is running it
Regarding the multiple colors punishment... I DESPISE playing agaisnt a 5 color good stuff deck in 50% of my tables. Not everyone has a stablished playgroup like you guys, and strangers REALLY dig 5c good stuff for some wicked reason. It feels deprived of flavor and style as well, they're just playing "the best available" instead of an actual deck with a concept.
this article is the perfect example on how bad people are on solving their own problems
I think its an example of people wanting to change things for changes sake. like oh changing a,b,c is going to magically fix the game
@@mark1A100 the big question is: is the format really "broken"?
On the going first question, my pod does similar with the rolling scry for 2 and 3, last doesn't scry, but starts as the monarch. We also roll to pick our position instead of who goes first.
Completely agree with Seth on wish cards. The problem with Richard’s ‘silver bullets in the 99’ response is they take up a card slot and arnt always relevant. If you can wish out any artifact for example karn is immediately a tutor for any kind of hate piece imaginable while only using one spot.
The big difference between tutors and wishes is, that tutors actually take a spot in the 99 and wishes actually dont because you just have your sideboard, so you technically dont loose a card spot with wishes and people would abuse it... Noone will play janky stuff in Sideboard -> im pro not having wishes
I feel like wish style effects aren't really in the spirit of commander being an 100 card format. The limitation for tutors are that you still have to play the card *in* your deck. It's not feasible to run 100 niche answers for specific problems, you have to pick and choose based on theme, power level, price, and priority, etc. The 100 cards is a limitation that breeds creativity. But with wish cards, you *always* have the answer. I feel like some of the most fun and unique puzzles and challenges I've had in commander would immediatly crumble to the constant presence of a 'perfect answer' card.
The thing about wishes is that they impose additional deckbuilding burdens on everyone. Even if I play 0 wish cards, I need to have a wishboard for the 1% chance I steal/copy a wish from an opponent through some unintended interaction. (For example, Hive Mind, Narset's Reversal, Memory Plunder, etc.) That means every deck going forward needs to be 105 or whatever the new number is, or you're just playing sub-optimally.
Exactly, it's just unnecessary and convoluted.
We've experimented with three different ways to introduce the monarch by default in some of my playgroups.
The first is first blood, which heavily favors the first player.
The second is whoever plays their Commander first, which still favors the first player but has some balance factors that made it feel a little bit better. For example it encouraged playing the commander out when maybe it wasn't as protected or not part of a combo. However it made more expensive commanders less attractive.
The third was to give it to the player who went last both to introduce monarch and also give them a slight benefit for going last. This was more complicated because it ended up often the case that they were getting beaten up or losing it right away due to the tempo the other players had on them. It also was frequently abused to accelerate graveyard combos because of the need to discard almost guaranteed.
In truth the best way I've found to guarantee there's always some element of the monarch in my games is that I just play monarch cards in every single one of my decks 🤷
One that I wanted to try but we didn't get to play around with too much was the monarch was whoever won the last game or a die roll if there was no previous game
The downside to infect is that you are the only one doing infect damage. You now have to deal 30 damage by yourself. But commander Vultron at least still deals normal damage and you can close out the game without it.
If the turn 1 player was the monarch but couldnt draw naturally until they lost it, it would lessen the turn 1 players starting power(drawing first card at end of turn is worse than at start). And the turn 4 player usually won't suffer as people tend to swing to get the monarch. Early no blockers.
Not perfect, but does lessen the gap between turn 1 and turn 4.
I think to me the idea of combining Commander damage (even if it means increasing it to 40 total commander damage (starting health)) would be a good change. Especially with the rise of 2 commander decks (Friends Forever, Partner With, Partner), it can be extremely convoluted to remember all the damage that has been applied. I've had a game where I was tracking 8 different commanders on a single player, from commanders being shuffled around by cards like Confusion in the Ranks and lots of goading. The other thing with combining it all and rising the total damage required is that it reduces the risk of getting randomly ousted by a commander and makes it more of a removal versus decks that can remain at full health regardless of damage taken.
In the tutor discussion...
Richard, you have to get that putting cards in a sideboard protects them from hate, right? Like, you have to be smart enough to get that? Yes, you're definitely going to play X spike playline, but it's harder to gunk up now because a key part is hidden away in the sb
Yuuuup
Responding to the Monarch, it is a good mechanic for Commander. I think the best solution is for Wizards to print more cards that introduce it.
In an ever increasing power level of the format it boggles my mind that people think more tutors will lead to better games.
I think I’m good on the idea of a typical sideboard for wish cards. Lessons should be allowed if Companions are allowed, but both are pretty narrow card pools, so they curate themselves and self-contain their own power level and nip homogeny concerns in the bud. A sideboard that could just contain any cards would not have those safeguards.
As far as Richard/Crim’s idea that wishes should just be able to get any card from your collection.... *HELL. NO.* That is the most insane take I’ve ever heard on this podcast. Sure, let’s just have a few slots in your deck that can just be any card that exists, ever, so the whole concept of thoughtful deck building and diversity just evaporates, and anyone can respond to anything that’s happening at any time. And let’s encourage people even harder to only play 5-color, so they can build decks with 5-10 wishes, and that can be the new homogenous norm, and building any other way would just straight up be incorrect. That sounds absolutely terrible.
And it’s the opposite of future-proof. If they kept printing more and more wish cards, and they will, eventually every commander deck would just be wish cards. I would stop playing commander, period, if wish cards could get anything. Golos was bad for the format because it encouraged homogeny. Wish cards being able to get any card you own would be that problem on a colossal scale and kill the format entirely.
This is a great podcast episode... While I was watching, I thought of this rules change that can both introduce the monarch and give the last player an advantage... The first players gains the monarch at their end step (so they don't get the extra card) and all their opponents get 1/1 creature token that sacrifices itself when it deals damage... If every opponent getting a creature is too much, we can make it so only the last player gains the token... I thought that by doing it like this, nothing is added to the board that is very impactful (like extra mana with treasures) but provides significant advantage for the players that are not the first in turn order...
Suggestion for the Monarch: The game starts with a monarch token that has: "Pay 3: Become the Monarch. Play only as a sorcery, and only if this ability has not been activated before"
While not a bad idea to add an intrinsic way to obtain monarch, I think 3 life for a card is way way to overpowered turn one
I think this just buffs player one even more, because player one will get three mana before the other players assuming no one ramps, so naturally player 1 will have the strongest starts most games. It will also change how people construct their decks, people will want to run cheap flyers and unblockable creatures to take the monarch, not inherently good or bad, but different.
I like the Idea of adding Monarch as a sort of "community commander"
Have it available for all players to put Monarch into play for 3 CMC as long as its not already in play.
You could set up a 'Ghost Fifth Player' who doesn't have a life total or take any game actions, but has the Monarch, and ceases to be when dethroned, if you want to include Monarch. But honestly, just play some Monarch cards. I don't think turn order really has a huge impact on your chances of winning the game.
Monarch cards are usually doo doo, and turn order matters in high power games
Or, just the first person to play their commander.
@@justinjones5034 "Hey guys, let's make this rules change." "Ok." "Alright so here's my Ragavan deck"
Crim had the perfect counterargument for sideboards at 22:45. "I have to play something narrow [if I want to stop somebody in a particular way]." EXACTLY. That's the whole point of an upper bound to deck size. Every card in your deck has an opportunity cost of a slot that now can't be used for other cards. Opening up sideboards basically expands your deck size without diluting your actual deck. Demonic tutor et al represent redundancy for cards already in your deck that you have spent a slot on, wish cards represent a nebulous, yet-undecided amount of cards that you have otherwise decided not to run in your deck
if you want to run null rod, put it in your deck. It's 99 cards (plus commander). If you don't expect to need it you might get wrecked by artifact/treasure decks sometimes. That's the cost of having access to narrow cards
I agree, having wishes in the format would bring nothing but increasing power levels and homogenous gameplay. I tried it in a commander league where we allowed 10 card wish boards for a time, and they were used exclusively for Karn locks and wishing for combo finishes. The rule lasted 2 leagues, a total of 12 weeks before everyone got sick of it
Lower life totals seem like a slam dunk. Many decks such as all non-combo tribes like warriors, minotaurs ect.. just aren't playable even at low powered tables.
I LOVE the idea of letting people play over 100 cards!!!
For game length: chess clock. Hear me out.
Everyone has a countdown timer and if yours drops to 0, you're out. If you set everyone's to 15 minutes then you know for a fact that the longest your game will go is one hour. You can set them to whatever and work your way down to a time that works for your play group. Games are taking less turns but sometimes just as long due to lengthy decision making. If you have a combo that's awesome but you better know that combo inside and out because time is ticking
Dzeeff did a whole video on why yugioh doesn't implement the use of chess clocks, and many of those same problems/complications apply with MTG.
Have have you guys considered playing the commander variant format Conquest ? It implements many of the rules you guys discussed today to try and make a more balanced format. Lower life totals, the scry rule, and a more balanced ban lists ( fast mana, tutors) . Including ban as commander. Overall I believe it achieves a more fair format. With less feel bads. Since people don’t have to self regulate themselves.
lolol
So regarding the rule about combining commander damage and you guys fearing that voltron will become too powerful, how often do you see more than 1 voltron deck at the table at a time?
Very much agree that there very well can be distinctions to the bans: banned as Commander, banned in the 99, even banned as Companion
Free Lutri!
I think some sort of partner mechanic where mono colored commanders could partner with another mono colored commander of the same color could be cool, but I'm pretty sure there has to be something broken with that, like a setup/payoff pair that's really hard to get rid of in time or a critical mass combo that's way too consistent. I also think that Tergrid players would find another legendary creature to make you hate their Tergrid deck even more.
Player 4 gains monarch when they damage an opponent
How to introduce Monarch - Player 1 skips their first draw but gets Monarch.
Player 4 can start with the Initiative during their upkeep, if you really want to get wild.
i think its funny that some people are talking about how going first is too much of an advantage and you're here saying player 1 should start with the monarchy
I understand trying to make commander damage simpler, I have played a game where 8 partners were involved, but I find it annoying when I am trying to use my commander that gets attack triggers or value on combat damage and I accidentally kill someone, so I really don't want to make that scenario easier
i agree with richard, i wanna activate spawnsire of ulamog and go grab every eldrazi i own and throw them on the battlefield.
Didn't see the poll, but how about this to make stuff like fetches, shocklands and tutors actual decisions: paying life lowers your "commander damage threshold". Like, your starting threshold is 21 (standard) and if you shock in a land it goes down to 19.
The RC said the reason why Infect is still at 10 in EDH is because all it is best at is taking out 1 person so it needed a buff considering it would honestly be too weak to take out the whole table if it was increased to 20 infect counters. Let's not forget that the moment you blow someone up with infect is the moment the rest of the table gangs up on you to take you out as you are the weakest with no more resources but you have infect so you are still a threat. And even if you are not still a threat you are easy prey plus no one likes alt wincons like that in the first place, basically infect needed to stay at 10 because feels bad the table would have as just like Slivers they would still fear you
The legendary non-legend rule could be like the color identity rule. Give permanents a "legendary identity" so if any part of them is a legendary creature it's fair to use as a commander.
My play group is considering allowing any creature as a "Champion" for your commander. It is played as a legend for purposes of that game it doesn't give commander damage though.
A lot of commander rule change suggestions come from people that would be better off playing a 60c format
Hybrid mana? No color restrictions
Wish cards? A format with a sideboard
I think since you can play creatures that transform into noncreatures (Origins Planeswalkers, new Innistrad Legends) the reverse should be allowed.
Also, all the Kaldheim Gods already wrecked the whole "sentient" argument for commanders, because there's enough prismatic bridge decks that don't even know what Esika does.
I think something like the new O-Kagachi would be a cool commander
If commander damage "won" the game instead of "you lose" it would be far more impactful and interactive. That way you wouldn't need to individually track on a per person thing. Each commander WINS if he does 21/30 total damage to someone etc. This removes the 1 person being eleminated. Removes the team aspect.
Like 21 total damage done = game won. Or something.
This is interesting. Someone should test this.
@@sirrslipp would also encourage more preventative fogs for other people. Makes more lore sense too, seeing a commander leading his ranks on the frontline is more likely to make them want to give up/swap sides than seeing a "advisor" sitting in a chair throwing their lives and lands away (chump blocking/sacing).
Love this, I'd love to have a group that's down with Community Comander, where all of the popular rules changes like hybrid mana, silver bordered, more than 100 cards, and 7 card side boards are allowed. Could also rotate some of the other suggestions like infect and comander color identity +1, I think it'd be fun once I get the chance to play some magic again.
Unlimited sideboards would be awful every single deck in commander could run Karn Mycosynth lattice and every single artifact stax piece in existence and it would be optimal to do so 😭, obviously learn effects grabbing lessons wouldn’t be broken at all but the addition of the wish effects to the format would just add more tutors which you guys have recognized as a net negative. The INconsistency of commander is what makes it fun and this would be directly lowering said inconsistency.
If you try to compensate the person going 4th, 3rd is going to become the new 4th, and so on. If we keep arguing the format is casual and we should self-police/adjust deck construction to the power level we want to play, do we really care about the advantage of going first that much that we need to insert some compensation? Isn't that just a conversation for cEDH (if at all)?
An unlimited sideboard? Now there's a logistical nightmare just waiting to happen. Would most people bring their entire collection to use as a sideboard? No. Would enough people do it to be a colossal problem and all around headache? Yes, yes they definitely would. >
I think part of what makes commander fun is the lack of consistency. I think a wishboard would be way too consistent.
Of course I also think a lot of tutors should be banned so there’s that
Richard had some hilariously bizarre hit takes in this one. He’s always good for a left field spicy comment.
People struggle to shuffle 100 cards. Especially if they insist on double sleeve. No way we're going over 100 cards.
Add to that any fetches and tutors, and it slows down games even more. More cards on the table also means that if a deck falls over, it's more cards going everywhere and it also reduces the likelyhood of someone either decking themselves or being milled out (which can be a good or a bad thing depending on your point of view of course). But even just the issue of games taking longer the moment someone fetches or tutors makes me think more than a 100 is not a good idea.
I think sideboards would just end up being a toolbox of stax pieces. People don't want to always run stuff like Rest In Peace or Null Rod because they're symmetrical and potentially dead draws depending on what decks are at the table. But sideboards eliminate the opportunity cost and will allow people to shutdown certain decks a lot easier.
the problem with wishes is then commander needs sideboard hate cause otherwise you place your pieces in this uninteractable space and dont worry about mill or discard.
I already prefer to go 4th, if the rolling scry was an official rule I'd never want anything else. Scry 3, after seeing how people are planning to play, is incredibly powerful.
29:00 Love this point. My playgroup is very casual and we play with the rules and ban list a bunch. One of them built Balor from CBG as commander and it’s sick and feels flavorfully correct still. We’ve also allowed things like an all sorceries and lands deck with Jadzi from Strixhaven as commander.
I'm really with Crim and Richard on the wish mechanics. The card should do what it says and when I was a little Timmy 15 years ago starting to play magic. Things that said I could grab a card from "outside of the game" were incredible. If commander is the fun format, you have to understand that 90% of commander players will be excited grabbing the perfect card for the situation or just some huge Timmy card that they just want to play. The 10% that grab the null rod or nasty piece are playing with people who know those kinds of effects are ok the table.
You can't create rules that will stop grimey players from being grimey. So let everyone else just read their cards and play the game.
This would also mean not grabbing things from exile, because exile is still in the game. Only cards outside the game in your shoe box.
No, people love to think about what "they" would do if they could wish. But in reality, the majority of people will just bring a silver bullet side board that uses a bunch of narrow cards that didn't make the initial cut but will absolutely destroy a game in the right circumstance.
And I say this as a Black player who would love to play Mastermind's Acquisition.
As much as I love Wishes, the format is better off without them.
Biggest problem to me with comparing wishes to "just another tutor" is its not, they dont search your libary so running burning wish isnt tutor 3+ its searching somewhere completly differnt, so if you made a limited sideboard that still has to follow singleton with your deck its not "yet another way to get x card" because if that cards in your deck you cant get it, and if its in your sideboard you can only get it with a wish
also wishes at least (obviusly not things like karn) tend to say "exile this card" on resolution so actualy the more wishes you run instead of normal tutors the less tutors you techincaly have because they are harder to recure from the graveyard
We house ruled the outside the game thing in my playgroup. One if my buddies had a deck with spawnsire of Ulamog as the wincon. He bought a stack of about 50 cheap eldrazi that he would dump on the table when he went off. I thought it was hilarious
EDH, as a casual format, should allow Silver-Border cards. The Silver-Border cards were ONLY supposed to be banned from TOURNAMENT FORMAT. EDH is supposed to be the fun playground where you get to use all your cards. Make Silver-Border cards legal, and allow players to Rule Zero them out - if they don't want them.
i think its fine as is for silver bordered cards to be opt-in rather than opt-out. don't think i'm alone in saying i'd rather not be running into 1½/1½s, Bureaucracy, cards with Gotcha, Common Courtesy, or god forbid a Rules Lawyer. the list goes on
From memory, the reason 'Banned as Commander' was removed, is because MTGO couldn't handle it (or simply they were too lazy to figure out the coding for it)
For Rofellos specifically, I honestly don't think he's even that problematic as a commander anymore. You'd rather not limit yourself to monogreen when you can play more colors. However I believe The RC aren't willing to ban or unban anything on the RL because of the price spikes and crashes it would cause, and amount of players it would inevitably upset.
i mean considering how many people think the rc use the banlist for insider trading type shit makes sense
The strongest decks are 3 or 4 or 5 colors. 3 color op commanders, 4 color duo partners, 5 color golos banned kenrith etc.
5 color decks are usually weaker than 3 or 4 because of mana base.
Honestly "non-basic lands" cards punish 5 color decks WAY harder than 2 or 3. Back to basics/blood moon kills 5 color but barely even affect mono colored decks.
Multi-Color decks already get punished in game.
I don't understand why the penalty for 5c got upvoted. Running 5c is already a big disadvantage. it takes forever for my Garth deck to be relevant. It has a good mana base to bring garth out on curve most of the time, but still, that is turn 5 before things start to happen.
I like the idea of introducing monarch to the game. Every suggestion you guys suggested has its pros and cons. My group does first blood. The issue is generally that means the first person gets monarch as they are the most likely to play a creature first. But then if they attack with it right away they are open to someone else cracking back to get the monarch. So it is still a slight advantage to the first player but it makes the game more interesting.
Your bad experience does not outweigh years of data. Running more colors is an advantage, period.
one thing i also hear as an idea:
if one player loose the game it ends and the player with the most life wins.
its a small thing that can change alot.
Hmm, interesting idea. My concern would be that it might incentivize the table to try to kill the person that stumbles on mana or gets off to a slow start though.
@@MTGGoldfish but are you at that point the player with the most life? cause if no, you also loose the game^^
just imagine someone playing an instant that gives him 2 life and cause of that he wins xD
In regards to being 4th player in turn order.... maybe he starts with monarch
I would love to have planeswalker commanders besides just a hand full. Even if you had planeswalkers as your commander you would still have to have green in the color pie to use doubling season. I have amanatou superfriends and i do fine without the big doublers.
8:18 Uhhhh Guys? You DO realize if griselbrand dies and hes your commander you can just choose not to put him in the command zone and leave him in the graveyard......right? For reanimation purposes? And if anyone ever yeets your GY THEN you can re-place him in command zone? Moving to command zone is not a forced interaction lol. Its just the common sense thing to do in 99% of cases.
You all should have a series where you try out all these different rules and see how they actually play in practice. 1 game try any legendary as commander. Then the next game try combined commander damage and so on.
If you bring back Baned as commander, you will ban more cards. I am against it.
My Haktos greatly relies on being able to finish a game using Commander Damage.
Introduce the monarch by giving it to the player who first hits player one.
Codfather is actually sounds like godfather and is still relevant to the theme of MTG goldfish
Instead of giving the monarch to the 4th player, give the initiative instead
Having to store extra cards for SB beyond the 100 seems like it really breaks the spirit of the format. It's supposed to just be 100 cards. That's why everyone hates Companions in Commander - that was a mistake.
I don't think allowing a SB creates any more fun in the format. Like, it's just more (and more powerful) tutors. And it allows for more than one copy of a card, which breaks the spirit of Commander even more.
Allowing Wishes to get cards from exile is quite possibly the worst version of that rule. People are just gonna loop Teferi's Protection and all the other spells that exile themselves.
EDIT: I think combining Commander damage is fine, but it would have to be upped to 30. Richard is going off about combos, but literally everyone still attacks. Richard is just remembering one specific game.
EDIT2: Richard: "Your deck doesn't work unless other people help you out? What?"
Also Richard: "Let other people deal with threats for you."
I love finding a way to add monarch to every game and no max deck size are both amazing…
No one can shuffle 100 cards so what’s 420?!
The rules committee thinks prime time is a problem but keeps dockside? Never changing unfortunately