Not ideal for sure but it does give an idea. I know at release the stock extruder was a problem but has been fixed. The extruder being changed is a valid complaint. It's going to impact the extrusion rate, weight and harmonics of the hotend. It does somewhat demonstrate the motion system. I would have rather seen the fixed extruder.
Non-issue. No one cares about your g-code, not even the China based copycats. This has already been talked about on other channels who actually sell their 3dp products online. They get copied and stolen even though the printers are not networked. There is 1000 times more data to harvest from your Ring camera, Nest thermostat, and your smartphone. And these companies can actually shut your products off remotely if you aren't woke enough (its happened.)
@@MalignSocietyWhat did you type this comment on? Lmaoo. A smartphone using a Google application? You're literally carrying a spying device in your pocket everywhere you go. So am I. What am I going to do about it? It's the world we live in. If you don't live in a cabin in the woods off the grid with no technology, you're getting spied on. Bambu is small fish.
@@MrAbletospeak Its definitely a concern when you consider the use case for these machines (for a lot of people/businesses) is prototyping proprietary parts and designs. Not so much for those of us just printing for fun.
Major PROPS for reading the Privacy Policy! I'm an independent product developer under NDAs with companies, and what BAMBU has done there is no bueno for people like me looking for a machine for rapid prototyping! I'll pass on the BAMBU and look for something else! Thanks you for the extremely valuable review on these machines! Out of all the reviews I have seen on these, no one has bothered to mention the contents of the PRIVACY POLICY.
@@EyeXombie Hey, Deputy Dumas... Getting on the internet doesn't compromise my inventions. You know what does? Printing the prototypes/proof of concepts on a printer that collects all of my files and the videos it takes of the prints does. I'm sure you want a 3D printer so you can make a sick costume for your nearest cosplay convention, because you think it will help you score with one of the 25 Xena Warrior Princesses in attendance.👫 But not everyone has those same lofty goals. So next time before you comment, just try to remember that the little nugget between your ears might not always be seeing the full picture. And good luck at your convention. Most women aren't attracted to gore, so hang up your Zombie costume. And Marvel Characters have been overdone, so choose something original as your costume that doubles as an icebreaker...maybe something that will make them laugh without you having to explain the joke.👍 All the best, Deputy.✌🙂
I like my X1C exactly for the reason that I DON’T have to tinker with it. I started out with a Solidoodle years ago and worked my way up through Anycubics, etc, and when Bambu had the X1C on kickstarter I jumped on it. For me, 3D printing isn’t a hobby, it’s a _tool_ I use for my other hobbies, and so any kind of tinkering I have to put into them stands in the way of me doing what I actually want to do. And the bambulab printers are great for that. They have well tuned print profiles and-thus-great print quality out of the box, and they do all calibration by themselves instead of making you do it and re-do it with every filament change, every temperature change in their environment, etc. I’m much more critical of their complete closed source approach, because a) it blocks innovation and b) I still don’t really trust them to keep it all so cheap and well-working as it is now. Eh… my Peopoly Magneto will soon be on its way to me, let’s see how I’ll get along with that, then I’ll have an alternative if the X1C ever does not do what I want it to do anymore.
I've been waiting for someone to use their own mainboard & klipper with Bambu hardware! You're the first person to say that they're going to try. I can't wait!
You critisised Bambu for collecting cloud data, then almost immediately praised them for using that data to tune print profiles and improve their software, and then critisised Creality for not doing that!!!
Thanks for the comparison. I will say the fact you moded the k1 with a different extruder did not make it a fair comparison. I am not a fan of either companies mind you but the issues with the print quality could be due to the extruder upgrade. But otherwise, it's a great video. Thanks Nathan. Keep up the good work
Yeah, just trying to show what I've done with it in the last 2 months. I hope we get some good drop-in aftermarket extruder options soon. The balance is all thrown off by the LGX sticking out of the top.
Agree this comparison isn't fair. You also complained about what the slicer did such as not put a brim on. Isn't that something the user should be setting themselves? Again why didn't you make the machines stock before reviewing so we could compare what WE ARE getting.😊
Thank goodness someone else pointed this out - I came to the video wanting a comparison between the P1P and K1 but got a video comparing a (?) stock P1P and a modded K1. Doesn’t really help my purchasing decision.
I would argue that hacking the K1 extruder and not implementing it properly is not a fare comparison. Better if comparison was stock machines or factory options only.
As usual with Creality, the K1 is 97% excellent and the last 3% seriously hampers the reliability and print quality. It doesn't work unless everything works. It won't take much to put a good extruder on there. It's 2023 and we know how to make good extruders, including low mass high flow extruders for high speed printers. There's a definite market for a company to sell a $75 K1 extruder that works well and reliably, and supply it with tuned K1 profiles for all common filaments, which is exactly what Creality should have done prior to shipping the first K1. Fortunately, it's not too difficult to downgrade the K1 firmware so the full open source version of Klipper can be installed. I'd like a medium fast printer but more interested in reliability and print quality than speed. I want it enclosed, 100C bed and 300C hardened nozzle. Automated bed leveling using force probing on the heated bed with a heated nozzle for perfect first layers across the entire bed. Open source is awesome and industry standard parts are greatly preferred to proprietary parts. It's not that complicated. I don't want lidar, camera, cloud services, complicated filament swapping, etc. Instead of bloated features, keep it simple but nail all of the details. Printer manufacturers should supply profiles for their printer for all popular slicers so the customer can use their preferred slicer.
Hit the nail on the head! Speed is great, but it's twice as good if the print is reliable on the first attempt. And honestly, in a community as reliant on open source as ours, it absolutely flaws me that manufacturers seem to be increasingly unwilling to play into the spirit of end user customisation.
I think it would be beneficial to packet sniff the bambu printer, find out what ip addresses on the internet it tries to talk to and block them at the router level. That way we can get local area connectivity but not allow the printer out to the internet. We could also just block its mac address from accessing the internet all-together on our router settings.
I was really looking forward to the K1 MAX but given all the issues with the K1 I decided against that for at least a year so the hugs can get worked out. SOVOL really seem like the go to printers atm but I'm most interested in Flying Bears printers as a starting point for a truly great, cheap printer.
@@NathanBuildsRobots my current experiment is a Orbiter2/CHC/CHT Volcano hotend and if that goes well then klipper and my reborn 2 might become the backbone of my businesses farm.
@unity3938 how did the chc/cht work out for you? I tried it on my delta. I couldn't get retractions dialed in good enough and had stringing and oozing and big z seams.
@@bleach_drink_me it's been working well for me. I think your problems are from the CHT nozzle, the three channels don't react the same to retractions as one big one does, the nozzle holds plastic way more than a single channel one does. I use 1.1mm retraction dist and 205c print temp on black PLA. The retraction dist is about the most I can do before it starts to clog but I think it's printing cooler to increase the viscosity of the plastic and using an aggressive 0.3mm hop on retract that keeps my stringing down. Hope this helps.
With respect ., you need to do the hack and get your K1 machine into full control fluid so that you can tweak it better , its a completely different machine like that !
K1 just lost most it's major (imo) advantage, making the P1S a no brainer (again, imo). Especially for someone that needs to use the machine as a home appliance, and not a basic hobbyist nightmare 😅
Lol hobbyist nightmare is a fun phrase. I think the P1S is a great deal. Would have expected them to sell it at $800 personally, but it's going for $700. Anyone who just bought a P1P must be P1Ssed 😂
@@NathanBuildsRobots I have the Creality Sermon D1 that I picked up open box at Micro Center for $280, countless design flaws. They came a LONG way in two years. But I've been modifying and improving my 3D printers since a few years after I got my first printer back in 2012 (MakerBot Replicator Dual) which still prints as good as any Mk3 Prusa machine, then later an i3 Duplicator (needed a larger printer and, you guessed it.. open box for $110 at Micro Center) which I also made tons of custom mods and designs to improve it.. but the D1 had my hands full for months 🥲 half baked is still good enough to kill salmonella.. this thing was raw 💀 I personally designed all the fan ducting, part cooler, and other parts. Squared it perfectly, rewired/repurposed a secondary part cooler/heat brake fan that only came on when it was over heating 😳 etc etc etc. Now it runs on a Sonic Pad (again, open box at Micro Center) and custom printer config because even though the D1 is supported on the Sonic Pad it doesn't work on so many levels. Grossly misconfigured Now, after so much tweaking and mods I can honestly say for the past year it's got to the point where I have full confidence I can print large ABS projects without any worry. So much so that I don't even bother to monitor it start printing anymore, it's in a large closet hooked up to a WiFi outlet. I just turn it on remotely, send the print through OrcaSlicer and it's perfect. Prints perfect ABS mechanical parts @200mms 🥰 Anywho, long->short; nightmare if you don't think reengineering parts and fixing fundamental flaws are fun 😊 feels nearly as accomplished as when I fully restored and improved an old Supra i had 🥰 That's my story for the day, gah bie
@@raphofthehills4405 Thank youfor this. You have been able to print offline since day one on every bambu lab printer but this BS has not been addressed by the click bait NBR. He doesnt have to like BL but why is he always lying?
We were lucky to get root on the K1 and it would be sweet if Creality - or actually anyone - would offer that as an option for tinkerers by default, but that point alone wins it for me. It's annoying Creality took out software they didn't even acknowledge of using in the latest updates, but we're working on Custom FW.
What machine would you recommend for best quality prints that’s not resign? I don’t care about the speed, I just want quality and a good size bed that has an enclosure to do ABS and other materials once a blue moon for under $500.
to adjust the estep for the extruder cant u just open up the correct setting file for your slicer? for bambu its all json files that open in any texteditor. then u just search for the parameter u want to edit. i for one changed the retraction distance for all 0.4 profile by this process and it works perfectly now. had some issues due to the standard temps used during the wiping and cleaning before each pring causing either the poop to not descend and get stuck on either the nozzle or the edge of the poopchute. then when it goes to the bare metal to swirl and grind down the nozzle it always oozes a bit while waiting for the bed to rise.. this little nugget then gets bent op the nozzle wall and then its stuck there due to the non plated nozzle tip. then it either falls off during calibration forcing the previous value to be used or it messes up the print later. after four rolls i had enough and started to look at how the slicer reads its values, then it became clear its as easy as reading a book and writing the changes i need manually. now it retracts 2mm during this process and i have 0 buggers or any dripping or oozing. why they chose 0.5mm and 0.8mm is beyond me... at those wait times its just stupid and over optimistic at best. its seems to me like the bambu team just took the average value of all their profiles retraction settings and went with that. to claim this machine does perfect prints out of the box i a truth with modifications. at least mine was. now, finally.. a week and a half into the ownership and the preprint procedure FINALLY works. hope they fix this soon in an update so i dont have to edit this manually in the files i probably should not edit in the first place 🙃
As for Flexispot.... I got their lowest end table for a dog grooming table at 1/3 of the price of a purpose grooming table. Can you say totally awesome!
I wonder if you tune both machines and re-run this test how much closer would it be. It's not as important to me how perfect it is out of the box. I would rather see how good they can get (especially since you already got the replacement extruder from Creality).
And I'm on the other side of the spectrum. I want an appliance. I want something that just works out of the box. I don't want to fiddle around with it to get it where it should be out of the box.
Welp, I was about to order an X1C but the privacy issues really bother me. I have limited internet access and offline printing is a must. Thank you for highlighting this as I would have been very disappointed.
14:37 I really appreciate the information about the ULA and behavior of updating firmware and general invasive data collecting. Not many people are that conscience about this so it's awesome and unique to see in your video as I'm shopping for my Duplicator i3 MonoPrice knockoff upgrade. Incredible changes since I got my printer so many years ago!
didn't know how stupid the privacy issue with the bamboo. the joy for me is to just print something without fiddling. i like to use it as just like a document printer. i'd like to focus on creativity than fixing bugs.
Why not just put a vinyl sticker over the Bambu's camera if your concerned them monitoring your print. Do whatever you've gotta do online or through the app then just take it offline when you're ready to print. Is the printer not properly functional if you do this?
sonic pad made my ender 3 pro run like th newer printers and i enjoyed modding it also. i agree to many ef-in cameras on too much crap. I miss the privacy we took for granted in the 1980"s!
A shame we can't have a comparison of the two printers abstracted from their software, there should be profiles for prusaslicer for both printers would have also been good to see a comparison of original equipment
Update on 2/19/2024: You can update the firmware on the P1P through the mini SD card. And also the Wifi issues have been fixed, they put a better Wifi card in the P1P. Also there is a kit you can buy o turn the P1P into a full blown P1S which is fully enclosed and has extra filtering and fans
I have/had (cannibalizing it for 2 projects, reversible) a Longr K5 made alfawise U20 One bought from Gearbest. I regularly printed at 200 mm/sec. The results were about equal to my Ender 3 running at 80. No one believed me until I showed the video of it The only issue was that the split single driver for the dual Z and then they were not synched via a belt. The ability to print that fast was almost never used. My build is 300*300*400 all screw drive for super accurate printing. Lately, I have been printing at 0.05 mm on my printers. Printing with a 0.8 mm nozzles at 0.05 layer makes some really nice prints that are solid and accurate.
Glad you highlighted the data privacy issues. Its a real issue for businesses as all my printer have to run offline and cannot be connected to the company network. I have found prusaslicer when a step file comes in bad and you tell it to fix it, it seems to want to to send it over the network to somewhere which fixes the step file and pulls it back into prusaslicer. Voron or vzbot it is then....
Bambu Lab is working on something to address privacy concerns. They realize many customers won’t buy it in its current state, using the cloud. Should be coming out in 3-6 months?
@@NathanBuildsRobots not sure if an enterprise version will do the job; perhaps only open hardware and open software can be better trusted in this context
I'm not gonna lie. I bought the K1 and it was not much cheaper than P1P, it's smaller, there is no nozzle wiper or air filter. The enclosure temps never exceeded 38C with the heat bed all the way at 100C due to huge gaps. And the creality slicer was absolute garbage, kept freezing my computer. So I returned my K1 and spent $100 more on P1S however I know for a fact the P1S has good software and better quality hardware.
I am looking to get a new printer. Was looking at Bambu and Creality K1-Max. Did not like the Bambu needing to be connected to the internet. Now you have convinced me and I will not be getting a Bambu. Not sure about the K1-Max yet but I have a CR-10 and it has always worked well for me.
You sliced your calibration tester with supports, the overhang test isn't valid. It isn't an overhang if you printed it with a support. The p1p scissor is rattling because it printed correctly. You could have intentionally made a bad print on the p1p to get that K1 "tight hinge" result.
I love the Ben Franklin citation, super funny and I am a big fan of the original quote. Also well done for pointing out the service agreement with Bambu, this is very very important today and most reviwers seem to simply not give a fuck. The Bambu Lab machine is basically spyware in the shape of a 3D printer.
I need to go through other manufacturer's TOS, and explain to people why I care, because a lot of people don't care. Which is fair enough, they don't have to.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I am of a different opinion. To Think "I have nothing to hide I don´t care" is very stupid and irresponsible. I am from the formen sovjet union, believe you me that this IS very important. It´s undemocratic and generally speaking bad.
As someone who loves tinkering with things, but has gotten to the point where I have more things to do than time to do it, I don't want to tinker with a 3D printer. For some people, it's a hobby. For me, I want it to use a 3D printer to print what I need, then move on. So I don't care about the lack of modding. I DO care about the privacy stuff though. Uggghh!!!
The fact that Bamboo Labs is a "closed system" that doesn't allow the user to modify/adapt/ troubleshoot the software nor the hardware plus the security issues makes this company fall off my list. The Creality although inferior in a few areas ( the hot end in particular ) still allows for mods/adaptations/fixes and a much better interface will eventually dominate. Perhaps tweeks to the Clipper software will improve overall quality. That being said the Bamboo Labs AMS is a major step forward that put it is a league of its own with automated 4 color printing.
This is completely untrue. The K1 is as locked down or maybe more at the moment than the P1P. They even moved to close the exploit that was being used to access fluid/mainsail interfaces. They (Creality) have not released the source code per the GPL license. At least with Bambu you can easily use a different slicer (Orca). You can use other slicers with K1 but with zero integration to the print engine...so if you like SD cards sure.
Yeah, there are a TON of good printers coming out right now. If Creality can fix the hotend/extruder, and let people put Klipper on the K1, it'd be an easy reccomend.
on the K1 i also encountered the problem that it always started printing with values stored in the [custom_macro] at 240/50C. Solved that by changing the start gcode - that said i forgot which google result had the working solution 💀
As someone who was looking at a bambu with ams for prototyping and primarily research purposes this is exactly what i was afraid of. Im from the synth/modular/circuit bending community and ive seen more than once somebody send a schematic to a company in shenzen for a limited run and next thing you know some company with a randomly generated name is selling a module eerily similar. If it was offline id be all about it. I like the whole camera in the chamber idea but having all that sent along with the cad information back to the company is just horribly Orwellian. Even if its best in class thats a dealbreaker if i want to go into production and market my products. So essentially they would gain access to the blueprints and my intellectual property everytime i run a new design through the printer if its online and i would of agreed to that.
There is a potential for data breach with any cloud system where you are uploading the files to someone else’s circuit. The X1E should help address some of those concerns, it will be a bambu lab machine that runs off the cloud
@@NathanBuildsRobots I had a idea of just using a old router for initial setup then disconnecting it and going the ol SD card route or seeing if I can access the printer over the router without having internet on that network. Still though it's a lot of money to dump on a x1c and 2 ams units just to find out it's not going to work. Fine. I'll just make slider knobs and lens hoods that'll show em. Seriously though, it feels like I'm stuck between dual extruder ($$$$) and the ams.
You just convinced me not to go bambu at all! I'm used to offline and it's really a must, but I also hate that creality is not making firmware open source, I want stock standard klipper and prusa slicer
I like how you gloss over how you changed the whole extruder on the K1... And it still prints like garbage😂..... What's up with supports on the calibration test print
Underextruded. I assume it didn’t apply the 154% flow compensation to the support material. The new extruder reduced print quality, but improves reliability. I don’t care about print quality if the extruder isn’t reliable.
You nailed it, 👍 i love my (modded) ender 3v2. It's reliable and cheap. That's what i was looking for. The next step could be an elegoo neptune or sovol, but i also like the silent mingda magicians or the cheap kingroon's. Keep up your good work 👍
One comment/observation, but your negative on the P1P about "not being mod friendly" probably will get some people saying "But I don't mod my printer, so I don't care". Its not just modding your printer, its fixing it yourself. Even though Bambu is now selling the x-carriage and its inexpensive, its super clear that Bambu didn't design this printer with user maintenance in mind. Very little on the Bambu is easy to service or replace... except the hotend.
Btw - loved the final comments on "speed" for the average user. So true. We've become obsessed by speed, corexy. Get something that gets the job done and is cheap*.
I feel like speed printing is jumping the shark... Like, what else is there to do now? Further improvements to FDM will be mostly slicer and materials driven. We don't NEED to buy new printers anymore.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Definitely slicer driven. Why can't the slicer be smart enough to know the appropriate face and supports needed? Or at least provide some options to the user. Then there is all the work being down on arc overhangs, etc. Users have gotten hung up on speed. Quality of a print should be the #1 criteria but we still dont' have a solid metric to quantify because of the many use cases. Visual quality? strength quality? etc.
If you look at car sales, what sells? Horsepower? Price? Features? 0-60 speed? I think with printing we have become fixated on speed benchy. Though, to be fair, speed is hugely important and super convenient. But ease of use is also important. I don't care about 5 hrs vs 6 hrs to finish a print when getting the print started is a PITA and takes 20 minutes, when it should only take 5. My time is more valuable than machine time.
THANK YOU! .........so what are your TOP5 3D Printers Today in terms of Price/Performance/Quality ? ..................And which one would you buy from below , or are there cheaper prices? K1 Max AI High-Speed, 600mm/s 775 EUR Bambu Lab P1s Combo , 500mm/s, 899 EUR Bambu Lab X1 Carbon Combo 1367 EUR
Seems like their TOS shown at 19:14 is contradictory. They first state they are going to collect the 3D model, but then the next sentence states they won't read, analyze, process or share the 3D model with any third-party. I suppose when in doubt assume they will collect any models you make.
Yeah, and there are caveats. At some point is says something like, they don't need to ask permission to use/process your data if they are legally required to do something... So if the government comes knocking, they get a lawsuit, etc, they might have to hand over your data. Best privacy policy is to keep everything local and not let your machines see the internet.
Awesome review and thanks for all the ongoing shorts about the k1. Was not aware of the privacy issues with Bambu so thank you for that! I think you should definitely review qidi’s 3 series line as they solve a lot of the issues of both of these printers. Full klipper with fluidd so full tuning and no cloud needed at all, heated enclosure, and the wall mount part cooing fan is included out of the box. Also the extruded appears to be an LGX clone with the big dual gears and the max has a 325x325 bed, even bigger than k1 max.
I was not impressed with the build quality on my last Qidi machines. Super thick and heavy steel pieces mixed with cheap feeling plastic pieces. Then there was the issue with the old X-Max's being discontinued... But they deserve a second look. The new X-Max 3 looks great. And it's super cheap for what it is.
Yeah I was super disappointed when my og Xmax became very awkward to do anything to after they sort of disappeared it from their website@@NathanBuildsRobots
I've been looking at K1 for a while, but It's just not there yet. Perhaps it'll get more interesting when it's open sourced, especially if it proves feasible to replace the firmware with real Klipper. For me, cloud is a non-starter. I prefer for devices to not even consider connecting to a cloud 'resource', especially since I do occasionally print things for not yet announced products that might or might not ever be released. Also cloud is a code word for "expect the rug to be pulled one day". Until that all gets worked out, I'll stick with my well modded E3Pro or maybe build a Voron. Please keep up the good work!
Nathan, thanks so much for such an honest and objective review. I've been itching to buy something like the printers you've reviewed...just because. I have a highly modded Ender 3 which is more like the new ones with all the mainboard mods, the display mods, BLTouch, direct drive extruder, etc. and it prints almost perfectly with the filaments I use including TPU. Further more I'm retired and not doing this as a business. Time is not that important when I only print maybe 4 or 5 prints a week. You made me think. Thank you. I still like shiny new things, though.
you use the wrong method to print the overhang test, the thing is, dont use suports to see how much the print can do until it fails. If you use suports, you can print any angle
I like this review but I don't think it is 100 % fair as you have modified the k1. so is that something you have to do if you purchase a k1 ? instantly modify it to get any reliable prints?
I had to. I got a very early production model of the K1. Will be checking out a more recent one soon, and will run it for 20 hrs straight to see if it's reliable.
Honestly underextruded layers are a HUGE issue. They are basically failed printjobs - if you intend to handle the object (instead of using it as an exhibit piece, locked in a cabinet) - its only matter of time before something like "oops i dropped it" happens, and it breaks clenly into two.
Thanks for the review. I have a Neptune 4 plus, and have been looking for another machine, and decided on the K1 Max. I was originally looking at an X1C, as it already has multi-filament support with the AMS, but the closed cloud based system, with lack of ethernet was kind of a big deal breaker for me and what I am working on. I was even looking at the new X1E which has ethernet, and can be fully utilized without the cloud, but the build volume ended up being too small for my needs. As well, realized I am not even "allowed" to purchase the X1E since I'm not an company, as it is an "Enterprise" grade machine bs. Bambu's locked ecosystem and data harvesting is a big pass for me, and as much as I want to own a Bambu printer for the raving quality right out of the box, I just can't with the projects and clients I have. Had a buddy pick up the K1 Max for me yesterday since he happened to be in the city with a Microcenter near him, and the K1 was $699 in store! Going to pick it up from him this weekend, and excited to get things going with it. Especially a carbon nylon part I've been trying to print, but has lifted of the print bed around the same point 3 tries now from slight warping. Other than that, the print head on the K1 Max, as well as the N4+, will be replaced soon with Co-Prints new chroma print head for multi-filament printing. Backed the company back in November, and was pleasantly surprised when I realized Creality was helping in co-development of the system. I feel the K1 with the Croma KCM system will surpass Bambu's X1's with AMS in so many ways once it releases in a few months. Time will tell.
Bambulab might seem chill at the moment but they've pre-baked a lot features that could turn against the users. Who knows when they gonna turn anti-consumer? Seems like they could easily turn your printer into e-waste if they wanted to
Also, the current leadership may have no say in how these features get used if the company has a change of leadership. They do seem to be pro-consumer to some extent. Pricing and spare parts availability seem good, and I’ve heard of some plans to develop a higher security model.
@@NathanBuildsRobots yeah I appreciate that they still make parts available for cheap on their site and distribute from many countries, I wonder if this would carry over in case of a change leadership
For anyone that is worried about the privacy, after you have setup the printer you can change to LAN mode. And at least in some routers you can block access to internet on selected devices, then it should run completely offline. :) Yeah it's a bit stupid it's not offline by default. But otherwise I have loved my P1P, USUALLY if something fails it my own fault.
And I don't really like thinkering with my 3D printer, I had to thinker with my old 3D printer all the time (a Geetech kit from 2014). I want to use my 3D printer as a tool!
And I have to say this test was a bit unfair since you had modded the K1, and it didn't give the K1 a proper chance to show what it can do. But good that you at least mentioned that many times in the video.
Hmmm, had heard great things about Bambu Lab, but the offline workflow as well as them uploading/retaining whatever you print is a big turn off. All my previous printers have been Creality (2x Ender 3s and 1x CR-10S). Still a little offput even the K1 doesn't work with a Raspberry Pi and Octoprint. Does it at least have a web interface you can use from a networked PC?
I never knew about the privacy issues on the bambu lab printers! This video really helped me rap my head around what I should buy next. Thanks for the great video!
Have you read privacy policy of google/yt,, fb, apple, microsoft. samsung, prusa, creality, ultimaker cura etc. This is literally a boilerplate policy that every company has but nate is blowing smoke about it. Privacy policy is a dog whistle like saying Chinese backed or some junk. If you want fairness nate why dont you read creality, prusa and countless other policies on here. Lets see what your next video is. You are starting to be like 3d musketeers with the bambu FUD for the clicks but you conveniently have an affiliate link to them. 🤡show.
4:56 FINAL explanation in a nutshell haha... Exactly the core of the comparison of these two products... Creality has a tiny problem because of upgrades... That sentence haha... And it is a never-ending story with upgrades, repairs, and tunes on these machines... That moment you show bambu... revelation haha
I got an X1C early on and I'm glad they started with this machine instead of the P1P. The UI on the P1P seems horrendous and is a huge downgrade compared to the X1C with its large touch screen. Cutting costs on the interface is not going to affect print quality, but it still leads to a worse user experience and to customers who will be apprehensive every time they think of maybe printing something, instead of enthusiastically using it.
My major issue with Creality is I have a printer that needs parts that aren't available, and there is no support at all from Creality. The number to contact them is non functional, the chat does not work, and emails are only met with "send us your billing info" then no response after that. What's the point of having a printer that works for less than a year and then you can't fix or service it with parts?
Having a good time with the K1, bought it right before they lowered the price. The modability is a must for me, thats half the fun. Did they update the extruder? Mine definitly has a strong return spring on it
I was a Creality loyalist until I got my first Bambu Lab printer. Never has printing looked as good and needed minimal to no tinkering at all. Have had a couple of issues with the AMS and respooling, but those have all been spool manufacturer issues and easily resolved. I will never buy another Creality machine
Thank you for doing this. I was actually going back n forth between buying 1 of these 2 printers. NOT NOW. I am an Elegoo fan boy I guess you can say, I have 5 of them. Guess I will go with the new Neptune 4 Pro next. Thanks again and keep up the great content.
Imagine reviewing a printer after modifying its extruder. Every bit of information you provided on the K1 print quality is completely useless.
Yeah ... But .. they fixed the extruder, it all works now how it should so yeah i imagine
Not ideal for sure but it does give an idea. I know at release the stock extruder was a problem but has been fixed.
The extruder being changed is a valid complaint. It's going to impact the extrusion rate, weight and harmonics of the hotend.
It does somewhat demonstrate the motion system. I would have rather seen the fixed extruder.
Yes.
...and at this point "who cares" thats half the point of open source 3D printers.
Not to mention faulty extruder problem has been rectified.
100% agree totally unfair review.
If the p1p print is more loose than the other that means the p1p is more accurate
Thank you for hammering the privacy aspect of these printers. We like our airgapped 8 bit bois in my industry.
The data harvesting is getting out of control. We need to delete Bambu and all of these companies that share this idea.
@@MrAbletospeak 🤣
Non-issue. No one cares about your g-code, not even the China based copycats. This has already been talked about on other channels who actually sell their 3dp products online. They get copied and stolen even though the printers are not networked. There is 1000 times more data to harvest from your Ring camera, Nest thermostat, and your smartphone. And these companies can actually shut your products off remotely if you aren't woke enough (its happened.)
@@MalignSocietyWhat did you type this comment on? Lmaoo.
A smartphone using a Google application? You're literally carrying a spying device in your pocket everywhere you go. So am I. What am I going to do about it? It's the world we live in. If you don't live in a cabin in the woods off the grid with no technology, you're getting spied on. Bambu is small fish.
@@MrAbletospeak Its definitely a concern when you consider the use case for these machines (for a lot of people/businesses) is prototyping proprietary parts and designs. Not so much for those of us just printing for fun.
Major PROPS for reading the Privacy Policy! I'm an independent product developer under NDAs with companies, and what BAMBU has done there is no bueno for people like me looking for a machine for rapid prototyping! I'll pass on the BAMBU and look for something else!
Thanks you for the extremely valuable review on these machines! Out of all the reviews I have seen on these, no one has bothered to mention the contents of the PRIVACY POLICY.
I’ve watched dozens of Bambu reviews, and none of those channels mentioned the privacy violations! Thank you!!!
@@EyeXombie Hey, Deputy Dumas...
Getting on the internet doesn't compromise my inventions. You know what does? Printing the prototypes/proof of concepts on a printer that collects all of my files and the videos it takes of the prints does. I'm sure you want a 3D printer so you can make a sick costume for your nearest cosplay convention, because you think it will help you score with one of the 25 Xena Warrior Princesses in attendance.👫 But not everyone has those same lofty goals. So next time before you comment, just try to remember that the little nugget between your ears might not always be seeing the full picture. And good luck at your convention. Most women aren't attracted to gore, so hang up your Zombie costume. And Marvel Characters have been overdone, so choose something original as your costume that doubles as an icebreaker...maybe something that will make them laugh without you having to explain the joke.👍 All the best, Deputy.✌🙂
I hope you don't use windows 10 or 11
I like my X1C exactly for the reason that I DON’T have to tinker with it.
I started out with a Solidoodle years ago and worked my way up through Anycubics, etc, and when Bambu had the X1C on kickstarter I jumped on it. For me, 3D printing isn’t a hobby, it’s a _tool_ I use for my other hobbies, and so any kind of tinkering I have to put into them stands in the way of me doing what I actually want to do.
And the bambulab printers are great for that. They have well tuned print profiles and-thus-great print quality out of the box, and they do all calibration by themselves instead of making you do it and re-do it with every filament change, every temperature change in their environment, etc.
I’m much more critical of their complete closed source approach, because a) it blocks innovation and b) I still don’t really trust them to keep it all so cheap and well-working as it is now.
Eh… my Peopoly Magneto will soon be on its way to me, let’s see how I’ll get along with that, then I’ll have an alternative if the X1C ever does not do what I want it to do anymore.
THX
I've been waiting for someone to use their own mainboard & klipper with Bambu hardware! You're the first person to say that they're going to try. I can't wait!
You critisised Bambu for collecting cloud data, then almost immediately praised them for using that data to tune print profiles and improve their software, and then critisised Creality for not doing that!!!
Lol, I caught that as well 😂
a gun can kill and protect at the same time
😂😂😂
You've put yourself in a bad situation if you ever have to trust your life with a 3D print :P
People do it surprisingly often. Machine controls, electronics enclosures, hooks and latches, bicycle parts to name a few
Thanks for the comparison. I will say the fact you moded the k1 with a different extruder did not make it a fair comparison. I am not a fan of either companies mind you but the issues with the print quality could be due to the extruder upgrade. But otherwise, it's a great video. Thanks Nathan. Keep up the good work
Yeah, just trying to show what I've done with it in the last 2 months. I hope we get some good drop-in aftermarket extruder options soon. The balance is all thrown off by the LGX sticking out of the top.
Agree this comparison isn't fair. You also complained about what the slicer did such as not put a brim on. Isn't that something the user should be setting themselves?
Again why didn't you make the machines stock before reviewing so we could compare what WE ARE getting.😊
Thank goodness someone else pointed this out - I came to the video wanting a comparison between the P1P and K1 but got a video comparing a (?) stock P1P and a modded K1. Doesn’t really help my purchasing decision.
Out of curiosity, what don't you like about Bambu Lab?
I can´t understand how a so amazing, complete and honest review doesn´t hit 50.000 views yet... thank you for your great job!
It's getting close to that. 43k right now.
That Bambu privacy/data usage TOS is a deal-breaker for sure. Shame.
Just wait for X1E, enterprise edition with no cloud. But will probably be in the 1-3k range
This was actually a useful review and you were perfectly critical of both. Thank you.
I would argue that hacking the K1 extruder and not implementing it properly is not a fare comparison. Better if comparison was stock machines or factory options only.
As usual with Creality, the K1 is 97% excellent and the last 3% seriously hampers the reliability and print quality. It doesn't work unless everything works. It won't take much to put a good extruder on there. It's 2023 and we know how to make good extruders, including low mass high flow extruders for high speed printers. There's a definite market for a company to sell a $75 K1 extruder that works well and reliably, and supply it with tuned K1 profiles for all common filaments, which is exactly what Creality should have done prior to shipping the first K1. Fortunately, it's not too difficult to downgrade the K1 firmware so the full open source version of Klipper can be installed.
I'd like a medium fast printer but more interested in reliability and print quality than speed. I want it enclosed, 100C bed and 300C hardened nozzle. Automated bed leveling using force probing on the heated bed with a heated nozzle for perfect first layers across the entire bed. Open source is awesome and industry standard parts are greatly preferred to proprietary parts. It's not that complicated. I don't want lidar, camera, cloud services, complicated filament swapping, etc. Instead of bloated features, keep it simple but nail all of the details. Printer manufacturers should supply profiles for their printer for all popular slicers so the customer can use their preferred slicer.
Hit the nail on the head! Speed is great, but it's twice as good if the print is reliable on the first attempt. And honestly, in a community as reliant on open source as ours, it absolutely flaws me that manufacturers seem to be increasingly unwilling to play into the spirit of end user customisation.
You mentioned that you wouldn't buy either K1 or P1P!? What should you choose in that price range and performance? Thanks for a honest review!
Super thoughtful review, Nathan. Thanks for your opinions and testing!
I think it would be beneficial to packet sniff the bambu printer, find out what ip addresses on the internet it tries to talk to and block
them at the router level. That way we can get local area connectivity but not allow the printer out to the internet.
We could also just block its mac address from accessing the internet all-together on our router settings.
Tell me you are an IT professional without telling me you are an IT professional
Great in-depth video mate, really appreciate your real world analysis of the two machines. Cheers
Great points! You should get a free part replacement for the WiFi issue.
My last interaction with support took weeks to get anywhere and it really turned me off asking them for help.
Thanks for the content. Always good to see honest comparisons.
I was really looking forward to the K1 MAX but given all the issues with the K1 I decided against that for at least a year so the hugs can get worked out. SOVOL really seem like the go to printers atm but I'm most interested in Flying Bears printers as a starting point for a truly great, cheap printer.
Flying bear was great. Seemed like a very serviceable design made of standard parts, which these new hyper speed coreXY printers are lacking.
@@NathanBuildsRobots my current experiment is a Orbiter2/CHC/CHT Volcano hotend and if that goes well then klipper and my reborn 2 might become the backbone of my businesses farm.
@unity3938 how did the chc/cht work out for you? I tried it on my delta. I couldn't get retractions dialed in good enough and had stringing and oozing and big z seams.
@@bleach_drink_me it's been working well for me. I think your problems are from the CHT nozzle, the three channels don't react the same to retractions as one big one does, the nozzle holds plastic way more than a single channel one does. I use 1.1mm retraction dist and 205c print temp on black PLA. The retraction dist is about the most I can do before it starts to clog but I think it's printing cooler to increase the viscosity of the plastic and using an aggressive 0.3mm hop on retract that keeps my stringing down. Hope this helps.
With respect ., you need to do the hack and get your K1 machine into full control fluid so that you can tweak it better , its a completely different machine like that !
Thanks Nathan, that was the funniest review I have ever watched.
K1 just lost most it's major (imo) advantage, making the P1S a no brainer (again, imo). Especially for someone that needs to use the machine as a home appliance, and not a basic hobbyist nightmare 😅
Lol hobbyist nightmare is a fun phrase. I think the P1S is a great deal. Would have expected them to sell it at $800 personally, but it's going for $700.
Anyone who just bought a P1P must be P1Ssed 😂
@@NathanBuildsRobots I have the Creality Sermon D1 that I picked up open box at Micro Center for $280, countless design flaws. They came a LONG way in two years. But I've been modifying and improving my 3D printers since a few years after I got my first printer back in 2012 (MakerBot Replicator Dual) which still prints as good as any Mk3 Prusa machine, then later an i3 Duplicator (needed a larger printer and, you guessed it.. open box for $110 at Micro Center) which I also made tons of custom mods and designs to improve it.. but the D1 had my hands full for months 🥲 half baked is still good enough to kill salmonella.. this thing was raw 💀
I personally designed all the fan ducting, part cooler, and other parts. Squared it perfectly, rewired/repurposed a secondary part cooler/heat brake fan that only came on when it was over heating 😳 etc etc etc. Now it runs on a Sonic Pad (again, open box at Micro Center) and custom printer config because even though the D1 is supported on the Sonic Pad it doesn't work on so many levels. Grossly misconfigured
Now, after so much tweaking and mods I can honestly say for the past year it's got to the point where I have full confidence I can print large ABS projects without any worry. So much so that I don't even bother to monitor it start printing anymore, it's in a large closet hooked up to a WiFi outlet. I just turn it on remotely, send the print through OrcaSlicer and it's perfect. Prints perfect ABS mechanical parts @200mms 🥰
Anywho, long->short; nightmare if you don't think reengineering parts and fixing fundamental flaws are fun 😊 feels nearly as accomplished as when I fully restored and improved an old Supra i had 🥰
That's my story for the day, gah bie
What do you mean that K1 lost its major advantage?
@@destinal_in_reality Probably referring to the enclosure. P1S has an enclosure so it closes the gap with the K1
@@MrHeHim Thank you for your Ted Talk. Yep Creality machines often need a TON of work. Kind of like a brain teaser.
Some of us don't have reliable internet. Requiring that for a 3D printer is a big thumbs-down for that reason alone.
Internet is not a requirement for printing. Offline printing w P1 is perfectly possible with SD card or its LAN mode.
@@raphofthehills4405 Thank youfor this. You have been able to print offline since day one on every bambu lab printer but this BS has not been addressed by the click bait NBR. He doesnt have to like BL but why is he always lying?
Wow! Thank you for pointing out the serious privacy issues with the Bambu products. No way will I be buying one of their products ever.
We were lucky to get root on the K1 and it would be sweet if Creality - or actually anyone - would offer that as an option for tinkerers by default, but that point alone wins it for me. It's annoying Creality took out software they didn't even acknowledge of using in the latest updates, but we're working on Custom FW.
What machine would you recommend for best quality prints that’s not resign? I don’t care about the speed, I just want quality and a good size bed that has an enclosure to do ABS and other materials once a blue moon for under $500.
to adjust the estep for the extruder cant u just open up the correct setting file for your slicer? for bambu its all json files that open in any texteditor. then u just search for the parameter u want to edit.
i for one changed the retraction distance for all 0.4 profile by this process and it works perfectly now. had some issues due to the standard temps used during the wiping and cleaning before each pring causing either the poop to not descend and get stuck on either the nozzle or the edge of the poopchute. then when it goes to the bare metal to swirl and grind down the nozzle it always oozes a bit while waiting for the bed to rise.. this little nugget then gets bent op the nozzle wall and then its stuck there due to the non plated nozzle tip. then it either falls off during calibration forcing the previous value to be used or it messes up the print later.
after four rolls i had enough and started to look at how the slicer reads its values, then it became clear its as easy as reading a book and writing the changes i need manually. now it retracts 2mm during this process and i have 0 buggers or any dripping or oozing. why they chose 0.5mm and 0.8mm is beyond me... at those wait times its just stupid and over optimistic at best. its seems to me like the bambu team just took the average value of all their profiles retraction settings and went with that. to claim this machine does perfect prints out of the box i a truth with modifications. at least mine was.
now, finally.. a week and a half into the ownership and the preprint procedure FINALLY works.
hope they fix this soon in an update so i dont have to edit this manually in the files i probably should not edit in the first place 🙃
Thanks for pointing out the privacy policy on the Bambu. There seems to be no one else on the internet who can say anything negative about Bambu.
As for Flexispot.... I got their lowest end table for a dog grooming table at 1/3 of the price of a purpose grooming table. Can you say totally awesome!
Totally awesome!
They really are the best value from what I’ve seen. Always nice when a good company offers sponsorships
I wonder if you tune both machines and re-run this test how much closer would it be. It's not as important to me how perfect it is out of the box. I would rather see how good they can get (especially since you already got the replacement extruder from Creality).
And I'm on the other side of the spectrum. I want an appliance. I want something that just works out of the box. I don't want to fiddle around with it to get it where it should be out of the box.
Creality should add a disclaimer to their printers that it needs a lot of tinkering to get the auto bed leveling work 😆
Welp, I was about to order an X1C but the privacy issues really bother me. I have limited internet access and offline printing is a must. Thank you for highlighting this as I would have been very disappointed.
You can print in LAN mode, over your local network
No problem w offline printing w Bambu. Can be done either w SD card or using LAN mode. That does not use internet / cloud.
14:37 I really appreciate the information about the ULA and behavior of updating firmware and general invasive data collecting. Not many people are that conscience about this so it's awesome and unique to see in your video as I'm shopping for my Duplicator i3 MonoPrice knockoff upgrade. Incredible changes since I got my printer so many years ago!
Thanks for the review! Looking forward to the FlexiSpot Adjustable Bed review soon!
Haha, I saw that on the product page.
Creality and quality controll. I already heard about issues with K1.
I am curious how elegoo neptune 4 will perform compared to those two.
Same, will be my first Elegoo machine.
didn't know how stupid the privacy issue with the bamboo. the joy for me is to just print something without fiddling. i like to use it as just like a document printer. i'd like to focus on creativity than fixing bugs.
The fact that you had to add a hack to the Creality machine solidifies the choice for me. I need to be printing productively, not tinkering.
Why not just put a vinyl sticker over the Bambu's camera if your concerned them monitoring your print. Do whatever you've gotta do online or through the app then just take it offline when you're ready to print. Is the printer not properly functional if you do this?
sonic pad made my ender 3 pro run like th newer printers and i enjoyed modding it also. i agree to many ef-in cameras on too much crap. I miss the privacy we took for granted in the 1980"s!
A shame we can't have a comparison of the two printers abstracted from their software, there should be profiles for prusaslicer for both printers would have also been good to see a comparison of original equipment
“The joy of printing comes from modifying your printer and just printing things every now and then”
When you prefer working on printers over printing.
Update on 2/19/2024: You can update the firmware on the P1P through the mini SD card. And also the Wifi issues have been fixed, they put a better Wifi card in the P1P. Also there is a kit you can buy o turn the P1P into a full blown P1S which is fully enclosed and has extra filtering and fans
I have/had (cannibalizing it for 2 projects, reversible) a Longr K5 made alfawise U20 One bought from Gearbest. I regularly printed at 200 mm/sec. The results were about equal to my Ender 3 running at 80.
No one believed me until I showed the video of it
The only issue was that the split single driver for the dual Z and then they were not synched via a belt.
The ability to print that fast was almost never used.
My build is 300*300*400 all screw drive for super accurate printing. Lately, I have been printing at 0.05 mm on my printers.
Printing with a 0.8 mm nozzles at 0.05 layer makes some really nice prints that are solid and accurate.
You should post some videos, I'd really like to see that!
Glad you highlighted the data privacy issues. Its a real issue for businesses as all my printer have to run offline and cannot be connected to the company network. I have found prusaslicer when a step file comes in bad and you tell it to fix it, it seems to want to to send it over the network to somewhere which fixes the step file and pulls it back into prusaslicer.
Voron or vzbot it is then....
Bambu Lab is working on something to address privacy concerns. They realize many customers won’t buy it in its current state, using the cloud. Should be coming out in 3-6 months?
@@NathanBuildsRobots I think that is usually referred to as "too little, too late".
Lol just put tape over the camera
@@kevinw7319they also monitor your network activity and they can keep and use your designs.
@@NathanBuildsRobots not sure if an enterprise version will do the job; perhaps only open hardware and open software can be better trusted in this context
I'm not gonna lie. I bought the K1 and it was not much cheaper than P1P, it's smaller, there is no nozzle wiper or air filter. The enclosure temps never exceeded 38C with the heat bed all the way at 100C due to huge gaps. And the creality slicer was absolute garbage, kept freezing my computer.
So I returned my K1 and spent $100 more on P1S however I know for a fact the P1S has good software and better quality hardware.
"Personally, I hate the Cloud"
... Spoken like a champ!
I am looking to get a new printer. Was looking at Bambu and Creality K1-Max. Did not like the Bambu needing to be connected to the internet. Now you have convinced me and I will not be getting a Bambu. Not sure about the K1-Max yet but I have a CR-10 and it has always worked well for me.
Lol thanks. I was so hyped up reading on the Bambu and you closing quote persuaded me. I’d just have a machine sitting idle longer for my case
You sliced your calibration tester with supports, the overhang test isn't valid. It isn't an overhang if you printed it with a support. The p1p scissor is rattling because it printed correctly. You could have intentionally made a bad print on the p1p to get that K1 "tight hinge" result.
I love the Ben Franklin citation, super funny and I am a big fan of the original quote.
Also well done for pointing out the service agreement with Bambu, this is very very important today and most reviwers seem to simply not give a fuck.
The Bambu Lab machine is basically spyware in the shape of a 3D printer.
I need to go through other manufacturer's TOS, and explain to people why I care, because a lot of people don't care. Which is fair enough, they don't have to.
@@NathanBuildsRobots I am of a different opinion. To Think "I have nothing to hide I don´t care" is very stupid and irresponsible. I am from the formen sovjet union, believe you me that this IS very important. It´s undemocratic and generally speaking bad.
the under extruded and single layer support of creality print is pretty common when using cura in my experience
PRUSASLICER is the GOAT
@@NathanBuildsRobotsorcaslicer you mean? :>
@@NathanBuildsRobotshere is a K1 config bundle for prusa slicer drive.google.com/drive/u/0/mobile/folders/10k7jFnqZSW9y4WS3F_fkJKBfziTDOlHL?pli=1
Wow, your table is really wobbly. Thanks for the video.
As someone who loves tinkering with things, but has gotten to the point where I have more things to do than time to do it, I don't want to tinker with a 3D printer. For some people, it's a hobby. For me, I want it to use a 3D printer to print what I need, then move on. So I don't care about the lack of modding. I DO care about the privacy stuff though. Uggghh!!!
being able to print fast also means less electricity used ... that's a plus in face of the rising energy cost though
I don’t want to mess around with the machine or modify it, that sounds like a pain in the arse to me! I just want it to work!
The fact that Bamboo Labs is a "closed system" that doesn't allow the user to modify/adapt/ troubleshoot the software nor the hardware plus the security issues makes this company fall off my list. The Creality although inferior in a few areas ( the hot end in particular ) still allows for mods/adaptations/fixes and a much better interface will eventually dominate. Perhaps tweeks to the Clipper software will improve overall quality. That being said the Bamboo Labs AMS is a major step forward that put it is a league of its own with automated 4 color printing.
This is completely untrue. The K1 is as locked down or maybe more at the moment than the P1P. They even moved to close the exploit that was being used to access fluid/mainsail interfaces. They (Creality) have not released the source code per the GPL license. At least with Bambu you can easily use a different slicer (Orca). You can use other slicers with K1 but with zero integration to the print engine...so if you like SD cards sure.
Yeah, there are a TON of good printers coming out right now. If Creality can fix the hotend/extruder, and let people put Klipper on the K1, it'd be an easy reccomend.
@@xc68000 I stand corrected on your point.
the overhang test is supposed to print without supports lol. that's the point of the test, to measure overhang printing capabilities
on the K1 i also encountered the problem that it always started printing with values stored in the [custom_macro] at 240/50C. Solved that by changing the start gcode - that said i forgot which google result had the working solution 💀
Nice, there are so many quirks on 3D printers sometimes.
As someone who was looking at a bambu with ams for prototyping and primarily research purposes this is exactly what i was afraid of. Im from the synth/modular/circuit bending community and ive seen more than once somebody send a schematic to a company in shenzen for a limited run and next thing you know some company with a randomly generated name is selling a module eerily similar. If it was offline id be all about it. I like the whole camera in the chamber idea but having all that sent along with the cad information back to the company is just horribly Orwellian. Even if its best in class thats a dealbreaker if i want to go into production and market my products. So essentially they would gain access to the blueprints and my intellectual property everytime i run a new design through the printer if its online and i would of agreed to that.
There is a potential for data breach with any cloud system where you are uploading the files to someone else’s circuit. The X1E should help address some of those concerns, it will be a bambu lab machine that runs off the cloud
@@NathanBuildsRobots I had a idea of just using a old router for initial setup then disconnecting it and going the ol SD card route or seeing if I can access the printer over the router without having internet on that network. Still though it's a lot of money to dump on a x1c and 2 ams units just to find out it's not going to work. Fine. I'll just make slider knobs and lens hoods that'll show em. Seriously though, it feels like I'm stuck between dual extruder ($$$$) and the ams.
You just convinced me not to go bambu at all! I'm used to offline and it's really a must, but I also hate that creality is not making firmware open source, I want stock standard klipper and prusa slicer
I like how you gloss over how you changed the whole extruder on the K1... And it still prints like garbage😂..... What's up with supports on the calibration test print
Underextruded. I assume it didn’t apply the 154% flow compensation to the support material. The new extruder reduced print quality, but improves reliability. I don’t care about print quality if the extruder isn’t reliable.
You nailed it, 👍 i love my (modded) ender 3v2. It's reliable and cheap. That's what i was looking for. The next step could be an elegoo neptune or sovol, but i also like the silent mingda magicians or the cheap kingroon's. Keep up your good work 👍
It was cheap before you modded :)
I had some problems on my Sovol SV06+, but now, after 3 weeks of use I am really happy with it. I think you can't buy a better 340$ printer
One comment/observation, but your negative on the P1P about "not being mod friendly" probably will get some people saying "But I don't mod my printer, so I don't care". Its not just modding your printer, its fixing it yourself. Even though Bambu is now selling the x-carriage and its inexpensive, its super clear that Bambu didn't design this printer with user maintenance in mind. Very little on the Bambu is easy to service or replace... except the hotend.
Btw - loved the final comments on "speed" for the average user. So true. We've become obsessed by speed, corexy. Get something that gets the job done and is cheap*.
I feel like speed printing is jumping the shark... Like, what else is there to do now?
Further improvements to FDM will be mostly slicer and materials driven. We don't NEED to buy new printers anymore.
@@NathanBuildsRobots Definitely slicer driven. Why can't the slicer be smart enough to know the appropriate face and supports needed? Or at least provide some options to the user. Then there is all the work being down on arc overhangs, etc. Users have gotten hung up on speed. Quality of a print should be the #1 criteria but we still dont' have a solid metric to quantify because of the many use cases. Visual quality? strength quality? etc.
If you look at car sales, what sells?
Horsepower?
Price?
Features?
0-60 speed?
I think with printing we have become fixated on speed benchy. Though, to be fair, speed is hugely important and super convenient. But ease of use is also important. I don't care about 5 hrs vs 6 hrs to finish a print when getting the print started is a PITA and takes 20 minutes, when it should only take 5. My time is more valuable than machine time.
THANK YOU! .........so what are your TOP5 3D Printers Today in terms of Price/Performance/Quality ? ..................And which one would you buy from below , or are there cheaper prices?
K1 Max AI High-Speed, 600mm/s 775 EUR
Bambu Lab P1s Combo , 500mm/s, 899 EUR
Bambu Lab X1 Carbon Combo 1367 EUR
Seems like their TOS shown at 19:14 is contradictory. They first state they are going to collect the 3D model, but then the next sentence states they won't read, analyze, process or share the 3D model with any third-party. I suppose when in doubt assume they will collect any models you make.
Yeah, and there are caveats. At some point is says something like, they don't need to ask permission to use/process your data if they are legally required to do something... So if the government comes knocking, they get a lawsuit, etc, they might have to hand over your data.
Best privacy policy is to keep everything local and not let your machines see the internet.
Awesome review and thanks for all the ongoing shorts about the k1. Was not aware of the privacy issues with Bambu so thank you for that! I think you should definitely review qidi’s 3 series line as they solve a lot of the issues of both of these printers. Full klipper with fluidd so full tuning and no cloud needed at all, heated enclosure, and the wall mount part cooing fan is included out of the box. Also the extruded appears to be an LGX clone with the big dual gears and the max has a 325x325 bed, even bigger than k1 max.
I was not impressed with the build quality on my last Qidi machines. Super thick and heavy steel pieces mixed with cheap feeling plastic pieces. Then there was the issue with the old X-Max's being discontinued... But they deserve a second look. The new X-Max 3 looks great. And it's super cheap for what it is.
Yeah I was super disappointed when my og Xmax became very awkward to do anything to after they sort of disappeared it from their website@@NathanBuildsRobots
I don’t have my p1p connected to the wifi and can still uses it with the SD port at the top near the interface panel
I've been looking at K1 for a while, but It's just not there yet. Perhaps it'll get more interesting when it's open sourced, especially if it proves feasible to replace the firmware with real Klipper. For me, cloud is a non-starter. I prefer for devices to not even consider connecting to a cloud 'resource', especially since I do occasionally print things for not yet announced products that might or might not ever be released. Also cloud is a code word for "expect the rug to be pulled one day".
Until that all gets worked out, I'll stick with my well modded E3Pro or maybe build a Voron.
Please keep up the good work!
Thank you PyroNine. Ender 3 with some high quality mods is a great setup.
Nathan, thanks so much for such an honest and objective review. I've been itching to buy something like the printers you've reviewed...just because. I have a highly modded Ender 3 which is more like the new ones with all the mainboard mods, the display mods, BLTouch, direct drive extruder, etc. and it prints almost perfectly with the filaments I use including TPU. Further more I'm retired and not doing this as a business. Time is not that important when I only print maybe 4 or 5 prints a week. You made me think. Thank you. I still like shiny new things, though.
you use the wrong method to print the overhang test, the thing is, dont use suports to see how much the print can do until it fails. If you use suports, you can print any angle
I like this review but I don't think it is 100 % fair as you have modified the k1. so is that something you have to do if you purchase a k1 ? instantly modify it to get any reliable prints?
I had to. I got a very early production model of the K1. Will be checking out a more recent one soon, and will run it for 20 hrs straight to see if it's reliable.
you can print PC and ABS on a Ender 3s1 with a little bit of tweaking without trouble
Honestly underextruded layers are a HUGE issue.
They are basically failed printjobs - if you intend to handle the object (instead of using it as an exhibit piece, locked in a cabinet) - its only matter of time before something like "oops i dropped it" happens, and it breaks clenly into two.
my brain went from: I WANT BAMBU> maybe creality is good enough?> I WANT BAMBU> oh yea no not bambu....
Gaslighting your audience is the new RUclips meta
Thanks for the review. I have a Neptune 4 plus, and have been looking for another machine, and decided on the K1 Max. I was originally looking at an X1C, as it already has multi-filament support with the AMS, but the closed cloud based system, with lack of ethernet was kind of a big deal breaker for me and what I am working on. I was even looking at the new X1E which has ethernet, and can be fully utilized without the cloud, but the build volume ended up being too small for my needs. As well, realized I am not even "allowed" to purchase the X1E since I'm not an company, as it is an "Enterprise" grade machine bs. Bambu's locked ecosystem and data harvesting is a big pass for me, and as much as I want to own a Bambu printer for the raving quality right out of the box, I just can't with the projects and clients I have.
Had a buddy pick up the K1 Max for me yesterday since he happened to be in the city with a Microcenter near him, and the K1 was $699 in store! Going to pick it up from him this weekend, and excited to get things going with it. Especially a carbon nylon part I've been trying to print, but has lifted of the print bed around the same point 3 tries now from slight warping. Other than that, the print head on the K1 Max, as well as the N4+, will be replaced soon with Co-Prints new chroma print head for multi-filament printing. Backed the company back in November, and was pleasantly surprised when I realized Creality was helping in co-development of the system. I feel the K1 with the Croma KCM system will surpass Bambu's X1's with AMS in so many ways once it releases in a few months. Time will tell.
What about for 3d printing as a business?
Speed, AND QUALITY, definitely matter. Does this narrow/reframe your decision?
awesome video, subbed for the future. Keep up the good no bullshit filler content dude
Bambulab might seem chill at the moment but they've pre-baked a lot features that could turn against the users. Who knows when they gonna turn anti-consumer? Seems like they could easily turn your printer into e-waste if they wanted to
Also, the current leadership may have no say in how these features get used if the company has a change of leadership.
They do seem to be pro-consumer to some extent. Pricing and spare parts availability seem good, and I’ve heard of some plans to develop a higher security model.
@@NathanBuildsRobots yeah I appreciate that they still make parts available for cheap on their site and distribute from many countries, I wonder if this would carry over in case of a change leadership
Well,,,, from what i've seen from other cases where the IP gets sold to another company..... No
@@NathanBuildsRobots :(
For anyone that is worried about the privacy, after you have setup the printer you can change to LAN mode. And at least in some routers you can block access to internet on selected devices, then it should run completely offline. :)
Yeah it's a bit stupid it's not offline by default. But otherwise I have loved my P1P, USUALLY if something fails it my own fault.
And I don't really like thinkering with my 3D printer, I had to thinker with my old 3D printer all the time (a Geetech kit from 2014). I want to use my 3D printer as a tool!
And I have to say this test was a bit unfair since you had modded the K1, and it didn't give the K1 a proper chance to show what it can do. But good that you at least mentioned that many times in the video.
Hmmm, had heard great things about Bambu Lab, but the offline workflow as well as them uploading/retaining whatever you print is a big turn off. All my previous printers have been Creality (2x Ender 3s and 1x CR-10S). Still a little offput even the K1 doesn't work with a Raspberry Pi and Octoprint. Does it at least have a web interface you can use from a networked PC?
I never knew about the privacy issues on the bambu lab printers! This video really helped me rap my head around what I should buy next. Thanks for the great video!
if that bothers u dont look into privacy issue with a cellphone
Have you read privacy policy of google/yt,, fb, apple, microsoft. samsung, prusa, creality, ultimaker cura etc. This is literally a boilerplate policy that every company has but nate is blowing smoke about it.
Privacy policy is a dog whistle like saying Chinese backed or some junk. If you want fairness nate why dont you read creality, prusa and countless other policies on here. Lets see what your next video is. You are starting to be like 3d musketeers with the bambu FUD for the clicks but you conveniently have an affiliate link to them.
🤡show.
I hope you don't use tiktok if privacy issues concern you too much
4:56 FINAL explanation in a nutshell haha...
Exactly the core of the comparison of these two products...
Creality has a tiny problem because of upgrades... That sentence haha...
And it is a never-ending story with upgrades, repairs, and tunes on these machines...
That moment you show bambu... revelation haha
Great work on this video Nathan. Very pragmatic and detailed.
I will not judge nobody for popcorn or snacks but I will get a beer
I got an X1C early on and I'm glad they started with this machine instead of the P1P. The UI on the P1P seems horrendous and is a huge downgrade compared to the X1C with its large touch screen. Cutting costs on the interface is not going to affect print quality, but it still leads to a worse user experience and to customers who will be apprehensive every time they think of maybe printing something, instead of enthusiastically using it.
Yes, bambu please send X1C for review
That was a very informative analysis. Thank you!!
My major issue with Creality is I have a printer that needs parts that aren't available, and there is no support at all from Creality. The number to contact them is non functional, the chat does not work, and emails are only met with "send us your billing info" then no response after that. What's the point of having a printer that works for less than a year and then you can't fix or service it with parts?
Having a good time with the K1, bought it right before they lowered the price. The modability is a must for me, thats half the fun. Did they update the extruder? Mine definitly has a strong return spring on it
Thank you. I was about to buy the bambu but not anymore! Privacy is key.
Thanks the privacy issue really was helpful to know and the same with the wifii issues.
Very good point about the privacy issues
This is an awesome review! Have you considered comparing it to the new p1s now that the p1p is cheaper?
I was a Creality loyalist until I got my first Bambu Lab printer. Never has printing looked as good and needed minimal to no tinkering at all. Have had a couple of issues with the AMS and respooling, but those have all been spool manufacturer issues and easily resolved. I will never buy another Creality machine
I think a different extruder on k1 that's not fully calibrated is not comparing like with like.
Thank you, I wouldn't have noticed the possible breach of privacy if it wasn't for you
Awesome Review Nathan, alway great to see feedback like this :)
use bambu labs slicer on the creality k1 it's amazing hoe much the quality improves just from the slicer used
you can set rafting in slicer
Thank you for doing this. I was actually going back n forth between buying 1 of these 2 printers. NOT NOW. I am an Elegoo fan boy I guess you can say, I have 5 of them. Guess I will go with the new Neptune 4 Pro next. Thanks again and keep up the great content.
Will be trying out the Neptune 4 soooon
thanks for keeping me grounded on black friday times hahaha