Can you play a vinyl record on a windup crank gramophone?
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- Опубликовано: 27 май 2022
- I'm pretty sure most of us have asked ourselves this question, right? I mean, records all look the same and work in a similar way. You can even play some 78 records on certain modern decks.
So can you play a modern vinyl on an old gramophone player?
There's only ONE WAY to find out - and I'm going to attempt what none of you should do at home. First we need a sacrificial vinyl, and I couldn't think of one better :) Sorry Cliff
** Records WERE harmed in the making of this film! No NOT attempt this at home! **
Conclusion: Yes, sort of. It worked way better than I had imagined it would. The speed is wrong as a single is 45 rpm and the old gramophone records were 78 rpm. So even when I turned the speed as far down as it would go it was still too fast. Also, notice the metal needle working it's way through the vinyl? Even if I could adjust the speed to 45 rpm the vinyl record wouldn't last more than a handful of plays before it was totally destroyed.
You can absolutely welcome to show your appreciation by buying me a coffee via; ko-fi.com/samanthajamesyoutube
Copyright of the song goes to EMI Records, Cliff Richard and Patch Music (read from label) 
Приколы
Check out this other more festive version I did 😂 ruclips.net/video/DiAvsLaO2FE/видео.html
The best thing that’s ever happened to a Cliff Richard record.
😆 lol, I wouldn't like to say
@@TheGramophoneGirl I especially like how the start sounds like an ice cream van.
Talk about music manipulation 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
you done turned it into a sick hip hop sample 😂
I love how she touches the playing surface of the record she's just gonna destroy anyway because ultimately it won't last at this rate anyway.
You're so right. I would never treat my normal vinyl collection like that.
nice tux
I think this would actually have really interesting applications for avant-garde sampling. Thank you for recording this.
Maybe, maybe. And no problem, my pleasure.
Poor thing stood no chance. I just hope that glorious gramophone has forgiven you.
I tried this when I was about 14. They would play but even just once the record was never the same.
You're quite right. It permanently destroys them.
Yes the needle is a lot thicker than modern needles.
I did have a video of playing a 45 on my late grandfather's old windup gramophone, but I have removed the video due to copyright issues. I managed to adjust the speed down to 45, and fixed a sort-of counterweight to the tone-arm, so the tracking weight was greatly reduced. Of course, it was sacrificial to the record, but it did play reasonably well.
You may still be able to upload it - though accepting that the copyright owner will claim any income from it.
@@TheGramophoneGirl Yes, my channel is not monetised so that would be no problem, but I don't know if I still have a copy! Maybe I'll check my archive.
sir, sorry for interrupt, I would like to ask how you manage to counterweight the tone-arm as I have received a HMV portable gramophone recently
@@TheKaiserkui It was many years ago now. But I think I used wire from a coat-hanger and wheel-balancing weights that had come off car wheels, you can often find them in the street. I bent the wire so it was hooked under the arm near the soundbox, and hung the weights to the opposite side, thus balancing some of the soundbox weight, and reducing the tracking pressure.
@@Timothycan thank you so much for your reply sir
It worked, but it eats your vynil even faster than a crossly.
But still sounds better.
@@ianz9916 even my lego one sounds better (it’s in my channel, link has trouble working)
@@weegie3343 The only good thing about a Crossley suitcase player is you could take it to an airport and they might lose it.
@@ianz9916 crossley record players should skip the consumer part and just be recycled straight after production.
@@weegie3343 I saw ur video and you had the tonearm on the wrong side but cool build
There are lots of issues here, tho' I realise this was just a fun exercise! Gramophone needles aren't just a sharp point, they actually have a radius, which does not fit accurately with the grooves of a 45/33rpm vinyl record. Toward the end of the shellac era, there were vinyl 78's, which appear to do ok with steel needles. Stereo vinyl records have a combination of vertical & lateral vibrations. A gramophone soundbox can only follow lateral grooves. Some clockwork motors will adjust to 45 or even 33rpm, but at these slow recording speeds the soundwaves are more tightly compressed. The lightweight & super flexible parts of a pick up cartridge can follow these compressed waves easily, but the parts of a gramophone soundbox are just too heavy & stiff. If they recorded at these low speeds in the early days, the results would have been distorted sound & rapid record wear.
Oh it was just a bit of fun but also to see if it could. I was surprised it tracked it and didn't immediately swing for the center. But it totally destroyed the grove - visibly. It did play it twice but the damage was extreme and I fear you'd be lucky to get 10 plays out of it. There is NO WAY I'd play this single with my stereo turntable.
Hey I was thinking about buying a vintage gramophone and I've heard that the needle in these ruin vinyl records and are suitable only for the shellac ones as they are tougher than vinyls. But i was wondering that if I swap the thicker needle on the gramophone with a thin needle that actually suits a 78 vinyl (so basically swap it with a needle that's actually made for a 78 vinyl) , will it still ruin the vinyl record or will it play without damaging the record?
@@thegreygoblin A needle designed for playing shellac, even a thin 'very soft tone' needle will totally and irreversibly damage a vinyl record. The groove on a shellac is much wider than the micro-groove on a vinyl. Also, shellac is very hard (and noisy) and vinyl is very soft (and flexible). They are not compatible. I don't know if you noticed on the video but you could see the actual mark on the vinyl where the gramophone needle had chewed it way through.
@@thegreygoblin The grooves on a 78 vinyl are the same width as those on a shellac 78, so you don't need a different needle. Those thin steel needles you may have seen are 'soft tone' so they play the record at a lower volume. The thing with steel needles is they need replacing after each play, but some collectors say its ok to stretch it to two plays.
@@thegreygoblin Also take into consideration the fact that the tone arms on vintage gramophones are a lot heavier than those on later record players and turntables, which will have an effect regardless of the needle. Where are you finding vinyl 78's, by the way? In my experience they are few and far between, and I've been buying records old and new since the early 70's.
LOL! This made me laugh!! DO NOT try this at home!! HA HA!
It was a bit of fun, including the choice of a sacrificial Cliff Richard single. Just hoping his fan club don't find out :)
@QuadRaSphere Records and Radio I chose that particular record for one reason alone. An ebay seller had accidentally listed it at 10p with free shipping. There is no way I would attempt to play it with my vinyl deck as the grooves are visibly damaged. It's very noticeably damaged. It might play, but I don't want to damage my expensive stylus attempting it.
This is Cliff's FINEST CHRISTMAS SONG!!
lol. It's the best version for sure :)
Best it's ever sounded LOL 😆.
I had no regrets lol
I was amazed that it actually tracked the record as well as it did. If I could have turned the speed right down to 45rpm it might have sounded ok - for about 4 or 5 plays. It was totally eating the tracks as it went. There's no way I dare play that single on a turntable again - not that I ever did lol
nightmare fuel
Nice experment! You could try dulling the steel needle by playing an old 78 record for 20 seconds or use toothpicks and then play the vinyl record and you could try facing the soundbox forward just like pathe to play stereo vinyl record, maybe that will play it without fully ruinning the record.
I think dulling the needle will still ruin it as the needles used on 78s are significantly wider than the tracks on a vinyl. I don't know the figures but it was by quite a magnitude.
I love these experiments. Do you have any more..??
I actually have one planned - watch this space. It might involve the old Cliff record or it might involve another.
I always wanted to hear the sound in the raw in its mechanical glory whether 33 1/3, 45. I want to build a super light weight stylus cartridge system with a small diaphragm which doesn't destroy the grooves on the record and incorporate that on a tube system and amplify that through the tonearm into the horn and use a wooden slide to control the volume. I have an experimental 3 spring Columbia phonograph motor. I might put a permanent magnet toy motor where the speed governor is put a control resistor in there and let the permanent magnet toy motor work as a controlled braking system for the proper speed. That would be a great experiment.
It surely would. It'd love to see a video of the results.
Same
Hey, I came here to check if it's possible to do exactly that! Did you try anything yet and get some kind of results?
@falcfire3093 i am experimenting with Rochelle salt. ( Potassium sodium tartrate. I'm going to do something different with the experimental spring motor and do a belt drive system on it. This won't have the heavy stylus on it. I'm using a mylar speaker system on the stylus bar and route the Rochelle salt cartridge wiring through the turntable tone arm ( electric) and attach it to the mylar speakers. The vibrations should amplify the sound through the stylus bar into the horn and amplify even more out of the other end. Its been slow this year for me. I'll keep you updated once i perfect it and will have a video ready. I need to get it right the first time.
@@Ecksterphono Neat, thanks for answering! I thought of a different approach, exchanging the longplay needle for a modern one, changing a gear to slow the speed down and taking off weight from the stylus with a pulley and counterweight. I'll see how it goes and keep you posted if it works!
Samantha you are very brave...I never would have given so much pain to Cliff.... anyway very nice experiment 👍
Thank you. I'm sure he's strong enough of character to forgive me.
i did a supremes 45 on my dads victrola back in the 60s. it actually slowed to 45 rpm or close anyway
Cool. I guess it damaged the 45?
So the answer is you can but only once
Pretty much. Maybe 3 or 4 times - which surprised me. But it would be an expensive way of listening to vinyl.
Oh no....poor old Cliff....how could you Samantha..!
Very easily :) Sorry.
I need some helping me date my columbia grafonola, it has no date or made in I could find written on it, it's a floor model, I have a video of it on my channel if you could help me. Sorry if it was written poorly I am very tired.
I wish I could help. I'm not an expert on such things. I'm guessing 1920s. Try googling the full details and see which pictures come up of the same, or similar models.
Hi would you be interestered in a 1906 record player ? Let me know thanks ..
Hi Kurt. I'm in the UK and of very limited funds. My old gramophone in the video broke down a month ago and I can't afford to get it fixed. So unlikely to buy another - as nice as that would be :(
I've have corrected the speed before doing this demonstration. You can play a 45 on a gramophone though the heavy arm and coarse needle will wear it out before long and you won't get anything like the volume that you would get on a 1950s 78 . A speed 33 LP would not play for me on a gramophone when I tried that years ago. The grooves in a 33 are way too fine.
Sounds just like the real thing
I'm pretty sure it would sound pretty good if I could have reduced the speed right down to 45 rpm. The downside though is the permanent damage caused to the vinyl. Still, it faired better than anticipated.
1:59 & 2:00 When You Slowed it Down With Your Hand on it. It Sounded Correct for About 1 Second.
ah yes, Cliff Richards nightcore
Funny that the pin respectivelly the hole fits so perfectly.Coincidentally? Or did you replace the pin or changed the hole? I guess you widened the hole
It fit coincidentally.
It could be part of a horror-film-soundtrack the way it sounds here. :D
lol, very probably
My wife has a large collection of cliff Richard records that need this treatment ,,,
lol. Don't let her hear you say that :)
Is there a way to make a gramophone that can play a modern record without destroying it? Or even a way to record a new record that can be played on a gramophone?
I'm not sure there is. Simply put there are two types of groove - the old wider gramophone than runs at 78rpm, and the more modern vinyl records with a narrow groove. Playing a 100 year old gramophone record on a modern turntable could damage the stylus and would produce rubbish sound. Playing a modern vinyl record on a gramophone works, but destroys the record in the process. There's no way round it that I can think of. Even if the speed issue was resolved, the groove size is the issue. The small groove on modern vinyl records needs electronic amplification to allow us to hear it loudly enough. The wide groove did not.
To complicate it further there are some 78 rpm records being made today but they are audiophile records designed only to be played on modern equipment as they have the narrow groove. Nobody is making wide groove 78 records suitable for use on an acoustic gramophone player. It would be cool if they did. I love the idea of 21st century music being played on a wind up gramophone.
You need to lower the tracking weight to 5 grams and get stylus to .3 mils. Do that and get speed right and your good.
It has a reason, that vinyl records didn't came before 1949.
Shellac based plastic was the only material, what could stand the heavy tonearms. The technology to pickup records with about 10 grams and less and sapphire or diamond stylus, existed in the mid 1930's, but people wanted acoustic players what doesn't needed any electricity. When it was established to plug in the player into a wall plug and a radio, softer discs had a chance.
There is a reason, why the Beatles were available on Shellac in India and Argentina, because electricity wasn't something for everyone.
Very interesting. I didn't know about the shellac records in the 1960s. Thank you
I would have thought you'd have corrected the speed before you started to video. I tried this out years ago. What I remember about it is that the volume of a 45, when reproduced on a gramophone, was a good deal lower than a 78.
78s play at, erm 78 rpm. Vinyl 45s play at 45 rpm (almost half the speed of a 78). A mechanical 78s player made in 1927 doesn't have the capability of playing at half speed. There is also no need to even modify it as it literally destroys the vinyl 45 after one play.
is that an acoustic gramophone with a speed adjustment?
It is, but the speed adjuster only turns it down to about 70 rpm and a 45 rpm vinyl is still played far too fast :(
You can play several times - because there is too big force on tip of a needle in the gramophone - roughly 100gramms and a vinyl groove will be destroyed after several tens of playbacks. It would be very good results - with a plastic cup and a thin needle with a light wooden wand with a counterweight.
Very likely. It has been played on the gramophone 3 or 4 times and it still plays the tune, but it was very noticeably degrading each time. You can even see the played/damaged area in the video. I guess in some post-apocalyptic world you could still play records in the way you suggest, but they wouldn't last very long at all.
Yes, once, and badly
Very true.
Another Cliff Richard disc bites the dust.
Indeed it did
"Alvin... uhh, Alvin... ALLLLL-VINNN !! @%* " ;D
Thank you for your comment.
😁😆😅🤣😂😛😋..... The best way to DESTROY a vinyl-record....
I think that might be a better title lol
❤Please do another video where you "scratch it" like a DJ❤
lol there's an idea. I like it :)
Sounds like some vibrato from any RUclips poop 😂
I did something like that years ago with an old vinyl 45 I didnt like and did this to test it and it chewed out the record way worse than this.
Cliff's made of solid stuff! He's a man of mystery, a Batchelor boy.
Bye Cliff Richard
Its so funny!
Can you? I predict: just once. Well, maybe twice, says a great-grandchild of Emile Berliner. Those 78s were STURDY!
You're mostly right. Significant damage is caused after the first play, but it will play about 10 times but with significant degradation after each play. The old 78s were very sturdy indeed. Many in my collection are well over 100 years old, and one is 120 years old!
think i would of done the same to this 45 tbo pmsl
It was hard not to ;)
@@TheGramophoneGirl 🤣🤣👍fab stuff Samantha
Oh dear !
Oh dear indeed.
@@TheGramophoneGirl Happy New Year. God bless.
Prehistoric nightcore
😶 maybe
wait... is this real, unedited?
Yes :)
@@TheGramophoneGirl This is very surprising to me! Because i tried to play some 78 RPM records on my gramophone for vinyl records and it didn't work
@@imploud I was playing a 45 vinyl on a gramophone, not the other way around. It did damage the vinyl beyond repair, even though it did produce sound.
Also, if you try to play a shellac 78 on a normal 33/45 turntable, you will probably damage the stylus as the groove is too big for it. It might give some sound, but 'may' do some damage in the process.
It will wear them out in a few plays BUT there were a few .01 steight needles and more widely available ,02 **ALL GROOVE** needles sold around 1960 that were osminiumor sapphite semi=permanent made for hildrens players,that when put on a windup would tolorably track 45rpm records. ////crankUp governors coulreach 45 or close to it and plah 45 mono records good emough to makawe them out.
Vynel 78s fared better for a few plays as cut at correct s[eed and .03 grooving. and would [lay well for a few plays but soundbox on crakups too heavy and wearing, Actually most steel needle pick ups too heavy for vynel 58s.
Try to work on your spelling, but yes
We can’t play 45rpm on 78rpm records pkayers😊
🙉🙉🙉
no. no you cannot. I am still on the ad and you cannot
Nope
"yes, once"...
Absolutely lol
Hello samantha❤ This is a good video that I've ever seen, friends are always connected, if friends need authentic Indonesian recipes, I make them, I complete your language for each video so you can try Indonesian dishes, greetings from Indonesia, friends
Thank you for watching. All the best for 2023.
NO
Sure you can....once
Maybe about 3 or 4 times but it sounds worse and worse. I wouldn't recommend it :)
🤔so,.. No then 🧐
Yes, but it was fun finding out.
@@TheGramophoneGirl I think we all have tried it out of curiosity 😀 x
Why would you want to ? 😳
I do it so you don't have to :)
@@TheGramophoneGirl …….. Good Answer 🫣🫤……….
That machine won't play vinyl record..
It plays grammar phone records 78s
Lol
Please don't attempt to play vinyls with the old type 78 R p m needles .That will permanently spoil the 33 EP / LP & 45 R P M records. The polyvinyl records always need a light weight pickup arm having sapphire/diamond stylus . Necessary .
Absolutely. This video was just a bit of fun to see what would happen - which was to destroy the vinyl record.
@@TheGramophoneGirl , thank you sister.Your attempt is mostly appreciated. Lot of people still don't know what is the difference between the gramophone and a modern record player. Even they cannot understand what is the difference between an old gramophone 78 R PM needle and a modern styli / stylus. In a stylus normally we can see two sided needles meant for playing 33 /45RPM records and the same time to play the old 78 RPM records. We can use one side for the polyvinyl records and the other side for the old shellac records. These needles are make from the sapphire / diamond materials . Before playing a record, please assure this . !!
The answer is clearly no.
How to destroy a 45....
Absolutely. It totally destroyed it and there's no chance I'll play that record on a proper turntable.
Ofcourse you can buth it will destroy your record !
I wasn't sure if it would have tracked the micro-grove of a vinyl. It did, but it did also permanently destroy the vinyl record in the process. I thought that would happen, and now I know (as do the people who watched) :)
@@TheGramophoneGirl Thank's for your nice answer Samantha and have a beautiful day !!!!! If you like verry old records, please listen once to my channel !
@@henkgloudemans8886 Thanks, I will. Thanks for watching mine. I have lots of old records to upload.
@@TheGramophoneGirl Waaawwww !!!!! That's great Samantha !!!!!!
it needs a repair job wobble
No.
Best use for that awful track lol
I chose it because it was cheap on ebay, but I have no regrets :)
Cliff is not impressed.
Oh I'm sure he wouldn't mind.
This act is at the cost of the life of vinyle .This will destroy the vinyle within few plays.
It does, but it was fun to do :)
Please dont do this at home the record will get destroyed
It absolutely will - and was.
Right at the start: the Cliff Richard ice cream van.
hahahahah weird sounding hahahah
Weird sounding indeed. But I don't think it ever sounded ok even when played correctly.
Poor vinyl!
Well, it was a Cliff Richard record..... :)
Thank you for destroying a Cliff Richard record because he is one of the greedy people responsible for extending the copyright period to a ridiculously long period. It affects a lot of people here on RUclips. I would never consider buying anything that pays Sir Cliff royalties.
I guess he's got to make a living.
Yes you can but it will wreck the record Sam.
And it did :) Which is a shame considering it's such a masterpiece.
Nope