Attempting To Repair A Freeze Cracked Big Block With A Cheap Flux Core Welder
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- Опубликовано: 14 дек 2022
- This old Chrysler 361 had a gnarly crack between freeze plugs, but because of its location pinning was not going to be practical. So, we decided to whip out our bottom of the barrel Harbor Freight Flux Core Welder and give it a shot.
Here's a rundown of what we did, and how it worked out.
#classiccar #autorepair #engines
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Learned to weld cast in the early 1960s.
Preheat with rose bud torch, then with DC stick welder and I think it was high nickel rod
Worked great.
a lightbulb in a vented box is enough to make them work in winter edit: I'm thinking of the flux rods... different welder, lol
My father told me to preheat the cast iron block before welding it. My solution is to just JB Weld it and be done in 5 minutes. Used JB Weld to repair a Jet Ski engine where a nut fell into a cylinder and punched a large piece out of the bottom of the aluminum block. Worked fine and held for years. Never failed.
Yes I used nickel 99 rod worked nice
I thought that (weld cast iron?) was a joke from 'No Country For Old Men'.
okay.
Nickel rod works and yes preheat!
Clean clean clean!
I earned my JB Welders certificate by repairing similarly cracked castings. Works on ceramic castings as well.
We fixed a hole in the water jacket off 400 Cummins diesel with J B Weld . And it held up just fine . No leaks at all .
Works great, but won't last for too long.
Back in the early eighties, 361s used to be the hot ticket for Mopar guys at local circle track lower classes where the track rules only stated a 360 cubic inch limit. With some creative crank grinding, block decking , a set of early closed chamber heads, factory stamped tin headgaskets, a factory magnum cam and a 383 or 400 intake, these things would run away and hide from 355 Chevies and 358 Ford's . (.030 over 350 and 351). Tech would pump the motors for displacement and they would always come in under 360 cubes. Anyways, that being said, I've seen my Pop weld a block before, altho he used an old Lincoln red jukebox. He would heat the block up first with a rosebud and then strike an arc.
Cool!
My dad used to call his father pops. Which of course been my grandfather. I'm not comparing your dad and my dad. But I can hear him screaming that it's a waste of time to weld that block. But then part of it was back in the day you just go get another block for nothing just about. Then I watch my dad weld heads intakes exhaust all kinds of cast items. With special rod on his little red Lincoln. After we preheated, a lot of times it was on a tractor for somebody. He would do aluminum products much the same way. Of course not with the little Lincoln not directly.. I was the garage monkey. I'd run the wires cables from the little Lincoln or the ideal arc later on. Over and hook it all up turn the buzz box on. Turn the valve on at the argon bottle. Then run back and forth make the adjustments hand material whatever he need it. I'll save what's left of this for my comment. The way we heat it the entire part it's always fascinating to me. So yet another first holiday this time Christmas without him. I enjoyed that stuff as a kid. And still enjoyed building something out nothing. But I guess what I'm saying when I read through your comment. I understand the little red welder and your pop's connection. At least at the basic common denominator. So here is truly hoping that Christmas dinner with your pops is still an option. Thanks for your story that brought up some of those details I had not thought of in a while. You're always your Father's son regardless of distance and age. One of those many lifelong lessons learned in the shop. Thanks.
Is a 361actually a better choice than a small block 360 in that application?
@@CAROLDDISCOVER-FINDER2525 thanks for your kind words. It's a good feeling having grown up in an era of "old timers" who fixed things, rebuilt things, and fabricated things. I learned a lot from my Pop, most importantly, how to be a good man. Pop has been gone now for over 25 years; he passed when I was 26, and not a day goes by I don't miss him terrible or have a question to ask.
@@theinsaneshecklador6598 IMO worlds better, especially if you're talking short tracks. If the car is hooking good, the 361 is building torque at a lower rpm to get you out of turns faster. The motor doesn't have to spin up to start making power, which realistically takes a few seconds it's right off idle building torque. Plus with the small blocks a lot of guys would have to stay in them thru the corners to carry that speed out of the turns. The only way to do that is either pedal it or spin the tires thru the turn and if you're spinnin you're not winnin
Tig weld and use a used piston ring as filler and it will flow nicely, pre and post heat and cover with silica sand or lime to get a slow cool. I put a frozen well pump that looked like a jigsaw puzzle together for a guy who was down on his luck and it's still going.
I like your style! Whatever word you want to use in that place of style. Reminds me of when I was growing up. My dad was to welder that everybody came with those nobody could get it done jobs. He managed quite often to get it done. If not it's probably still sitting out there in the scrap pile behind the shop. The Piston Ring piece is a great point. I'm just a guy reminiscing and reading through these replies and comments for a little while now because it reminds me of times gone by and activity lost to time. Merry Christmas
Yep! Gotcha.
@@tallboy2234 congratulations you and another person reply came in on my notification under a new subject heading. It said important. I find it interesting. He said what two words. But Google found it important enough to Mark important instead of put it under today with the other ones. I said Google because they own RUclips
Piston ring for filler is genius. For hard surfacing save those old drill bits.
Peening the weld as it cools helps to avoid cracking.
one of the things you did right was using a die grinder to v out the Crack. If u use a grinding wheel you will contaminate the weld with grinding wheel ingredients. And peening is the utmost important. Good job. You have been around the block a time or 2.
That is a fantastic point well made on your part. This repair patch job hold special interest to me. So I guess that's why I'm going through Reading replies and replying to some of those replies. And the fact that I can't sleep for some reason in the middle of the night this night.
Tony has a lot of balls experimenting in the open with something like this, but then again I love his channel because you don't see a lot of blowhard know-it-alls. A big reason this is one of my favorite comment communities on the internet. I don't think Tony takes time deleting a-hole comments, we're just adults here: and it shows.
Merry Christmas, y'all!
They make a Stick Welding Rod for Cast Iron, called Ni Rod its a combo of Nickel and Iron. I have used it on Cast Iron with excellent results. You pre heat the metal a bit, and it flows beautifully. Back in the day, would Braze that block with Brass Flux coat brazing road and a bigger brazing tip.
Did you use minimal amps?
@@Nostradamus_Order33 , depending on how good and smooth your Welding machine is you can get NI Rod in 3/32 for lower Amp's say 80 amps or 1/8 rod 110 to 120 amps for thicker casting. You still need to V it out to get proper penetration.
When welding cast iron, you will have a much better chance of not cracking if you preheat and post heat the aria with a torch. Take you're time with it.
Slow-cooling wrapped up helps too.
weld cold and peen with stick dc reverse 95 in rod. should never be hotter than you can touch. about 3/4 inch at a time. alternate places. I have done it a hundred times.
ni rod 95
UT doesn't want to spend if he doesn't have to ...
I've screwed around with a few flux core welders and the one thing I learned is that the wire is more important than the machine. I stick with Lincoln wire. It seems to be the least messy and does a good job.
I agree 100%: a HF machine is usually adequate but their wire not so much.
I believe some of their machines are AC, I wouldn't trust one of them with wire that's only rated for DC. But good wire and a not awful machine is a decent chance.
If you want to make a good weld on cast iron either braze it or arc weld it. Pre-heat the steel before welding it helps.
@@jeremypike9153 if you have the right machine I'd 100% trust dual shield more than I'd trust 7108. That's not to say that most people have a machine capable of running dual shield.
i agree i got 1 and the first thing i did was though the wire out and get Lincoln wire just make sure you preheat the thing you are working on
@@tetedur377 arc rods release the shielding gas while welding. The problem with welding anything cast is that the air bubbles in the material are consistently blowing the gas away while welding. Arc does a better job of shielding the weld because of the process that's releasing the shielding gas from the welding rod.
I did this same repair with a Lincoln 140 welder and flux core on a 1966 Numbers matching 383 block. It worked well, the crack was almost identical on that block.
Well that's interesting. So you're well job held for an extended period of time in this area? Not for a lack of faith by any means in our host on the channel but just in nature of the repair needed is what caused me to doubt that it will be successful if it was used in a vehicle in daily operation. Not a naysayer just curious because of this. Merry Christmas
@@CAROLDDISCOVER-FINDER2525 I can see what you are saying. But since the crack was in the side of the block where it simply holds back water I think its a fine repair. Its not like that side of the block gets a huge load from the rotating assembly. It was worth trying to save a numbers matching block to my 1966 Belvedere.
@@360RTZoD that's all true. I've just kind of reflecting on the day when you pick the things that running for almost nothing. But those days are gone. And it's been quite some time since my dad weld anything of course now he can't. Numbers matching car. Sounds cool I've always liked the out of mainstream things
I was taught to pre heat coke with flux and braze or heat and stick weld with nickle aloy rod. Always worked. Maintain heat after weld by adding heat and insulation.
the cool down is incredibly important.
That's why this is so interesting. His theory is to not let it get hot in the first place. I wonder how it will work out in the long-term.
I've tried every way imaginable to weld cracked blocks, and the way that works best for me is brazing. I haven't used wire welders enough to say anything about them, it looks like it did the job here. But I've not had as good results myself as i have had with brazing rods and acetylene.
Brazing is absolutely a good way to handle it. Nobody nowadays even knows how to do it, but it's a solid fix for lots of things as brass is machinable and actually cuts like cast iron, if a bunch faster. Still gotta pre and post heat, though.
brazing is better, I bet the welds on this cracked somewhere, he used steel wire on iron, it pulls the carbon from the iron into the puddle and makes it brittle.
Brazing is something else I watch my dad do a lot of. I was always more into turning the wrench then actually doing the welding part. Besides I had the best welder around to do it for me back then. It's actually been enjoyable reading through people's comments and being reminded of some of those finer details that maybe wasn't forgotten but they just were not coming back to mind. Merry Christmas to you
@@kevinragsdale6256 why not nickel rods? I’ve a/c stick welded with nickel rods with no problems.
@@Nostradamus_Order33 Can't say, I haven't done any of that. Brazing has always worked for me.
I tried this years ago on exhaust manifolds, etc, with a real MIG. Each time I got a beautiful weld, with no cracking, but under stress, the weld would just fall apart beside the joint.
I found that pre-heating and post heating/cooling is very important, along with using the proper fill material.
I’m not a welder either but I have welded cast before using cast rods and a stick welder , then hit it straight away with a Needle gun to peen the weld whilst it’s still hot .
Worked out very well 👌🏽
As far I remember, old timers ( I'm talking from the 1960's) told me that, if you want to successfully weld cast iron, you may consider heating up the whole unit. This way, everything cool off uniformly. There are less chance for the surface to crack, through thermal-shock. I'm no welder but, I tried to stick weld an old wood stove without heating anything and, the weld kept cracking. Like I mentioned, I'm no welder. Lesson learned.
In 1972 my high school auto shop teacher weld a sizable chunk of block back where it belonged in my girlfriend’s Triumph Spitfire engine after it threw a rod. He used a stick welder with a nickel rod. Like you, he would go maybe an inch or less and then let it cool before continuing. It worked great! She drove that car for years.
Uncle Tony, I’ve been watching you learning about Mopars for years and I thank you for that. But what you were just trying to do is MY level of expertise. You used the wrong wire, you pinged it with the wrong kind of hammer, you didn’t pre heat it. You probably didn’t prep the crack at all. There is so much wrong with what you just tried to do that it cannot be captured in a comment. I just pray to God that no kid tries to do what you just did, thinks that he has success, and then goes through all the trouble to put the motor together and install it in his car. The chances of success, or less than 5% If he does the repair this way. Still love you tho
Nice job, that is a saved block. So many good blocks that cracked were tossed when they could have been welded. Same with exhaust manifolds, stop drill the ends of the cracks, then way shorter duration welds than what you just did, maybe an eighth to quarter inch at a time, then very quick with a light tapping pick hammer, let cool, repeat and proceed to the end, all I have ever used for this is flux core wire and my Hobert runs best with Lincoln wire. I’ve tried all the different brands out over the years due to remote locations and some wire is junk and I sure would not weld cast iron with it when it won’t weld cold steel well. If it is considered junk then carefully give it a try, normally successful and you have nothing to lose.
ive welded loads of cast manifold, a certain gm engine used to crack a lot.
I’ve never welded any cast as big as a block but I’ve had good luck welding smaller cast stuff by blasting the whole item with a torch until it’s as hot as I can get it then laying the weld then back to the torch while it equalizes.
Yes sir. That is what I was taught. Pre heat and then post heat and cool it slowly from the post heat.
@Eric Weingartner when did nick say that? I’m not doubting, just interested and couldn’t find it myself. Ive heard a few people say the same now.
@@mildlydisinterested you're entirely right with the regulation of the heat. And my dad's shop we had an oversized oven with custom racks for holding the parts that he had built. And we would bake it and what we came to call the easy bake oven. Pre-bake and post bake. It had a timer and you can regulate it to where the heat would lower itself. It was a mechanical timer that was built into the stove / oven. If it did not fit in the oven my dad would not weld it. You said it so precise. I always seem to take 10 more words to say the same thing. Merry Christmas
@@SpecialAgentJamesAki you might go and look at some of my replies and my comment. My dad was well known for his welding skills. Back then there's a lot of farmers who could well pretty good. But they would bring those items to him to weld. I watch embrace some things stick rod he had a MIG welder for the non iron and steel items. Always figured I should have learned more but I did learn quite a bit. The point is he had a very special kind of oven they bought second hand for probably 15 bucks back then. I don't think the stove part of it ever worked but he made racks specifically for different kind of Parts usually to accommodate different size parts. Because placement in the exact place in the oven was important. I don't pretend to know all these details of why just that they were important. He'd weld aluminum heads intake made weld cast iron a lot of tractor cast iron parts. He would never touch a block because it would not fit in the oven and these blocks are plentiful at the time. Nowadays maybe he would if he could bake it oven we called Rosie easy bake oven. It was hot pink and then he irritate flag for that. Everybody always kid him about the color because everything else was industrial colors except for that hot pink oven in the shop. This was before those signs that said no customers allowed in shop because of insurance reasons. Insurance reasons true but mainly I think those signs were to keep people from seeing how and what you were doing during the course of the repair. My dad would have a couple of extra welding hoods and tell the customer here you want to watch. Then he would tell them if they were going to do this kind of stuff welding they needed to go and get a prescription so that the lens was right darkness for their eyes. I don't think the lens helped him see any better like glasses would. Not that kind of prescription. Anyway what the other guy said about pre-heat and post heat is Right. You have to control the heat before and after. The torch works. But baking it is so much better and if you're doing thousands of these parts over a period of a lifetime, you need to find a way to make the odds of success in your favor. You can buy equipment made to warm things like cast iron. But the price back then was horrendous and I'm sure it's not any cheaper. I'd be glad to share more if you like but that kind of reinforces what the other guy said so well and so few words about preheat and post heat. All I did was throwing a story with it and maybe give you an idea of how you might go about it. By the way sometime you want to use a cookie sheet and other times it was absolutely wrong idea I just put on the open rack. We had fun calling this stuff like cookie sheet and easy bake oven. The sheet that we use was not bought at Sears in the cooking section. You know if my dad had money he would have bought the right design equipment. But after using Rosie the easy bake oven he would never have gone and bought that right design equipment because there's some things that equipment didn't have that was very helpful. Besides just kind of fun looking through that glass window and watching it heat up. Asbestos had it's uses too. Of course that's a product that rightfully so is no longer available. Merry Christmas
@@CAROLDDISCOVER-FINDER2525 that would be such a useful piece of equipment to have! I like that a lot thanks for sharing. I learn some of the best stuff on here stuff that’s hard to find in books and through google. Taking with experienced people is the best way to learn for sure.
Peening and short welds looks like it worked well.
Nice job.
Good techniques on your repair ! I fixed a block on a triumph spitfire back in the 70's that had a rod fly through the lower side of the block .I used a Bridgeport to mill out a hole 3x4 to clean up the damage and found an old Volvo tranny case with the same slight curvature a milled out a patch. I asked a welding professor and he recommended a high nickel stick arc rod and using the hammer a little/weld a little technique and got a a good repair. I left the Volvo letters on the repair patch which probably confused future owners.
I know the comments are gonna be good on this one.
You ruined that block, it'll crack the first time you step on the gas. Lol.
Keep rocking on.
Most machine shops would pin it
But I drill the holes at the ends and use my Corba torch with thier cast iron sticks and their flux. Works out great and easy to grind.
I have had some experience welding cast iron. If you get high Nickel rod for your stick welder and follow the same procedure (intermittent stitch welding), the weld will come out strong and not crack.
Cast arc rods or cast mig wire works very well. Even when pre/post heat is not done it works IF you weld in very small stages and peen the weld immediately while it is still red hot, this helps expand the weld as it cools to stop stress cracks.
Cast mig wire huh?
One of the biggest misconceptions of welding cast is you have to put the heat to it. If you check the welding temperatures for cast iron it Welds cooler than any other metal. I've always drilled the holes at the end of the crack I widen the crack to get the filler metal in there, clean it out very good with wire brush grinder etc. Use a nickel rod, stick weld, and have a torch handy to apply a little heat and let it cool gradually. Now they say you can't weld cast aluminum but I came up with a solution to do that the best way to do it is clean it up good of course you're going to TIG weld it first pass you make on the crack you going to get a lot of black smoke because cast has a lot of impurities in it so I found make your first pass grind it all back out and on your second pass it weldsl nice and clean because all the impurities have boiled out of it!
Im looking forward to see how UTGs fix here holds up. The first block I welded was my flathead 4 in my 9N. Cracked at the plugs like this. My dad taught me. Used a stick welder with NI rods and a propane torch. Still holding up to this day. Outlased the tires. Kind of wondering how many people watched the entire video before hopping into the comments.
For exhaust manifolds we use to use a rosebud to preheat and slow the cooling down . With you using 110 welder it's less heat so that's why it worked people used to braze weld blocks . Braze welding is an art you can do a lot but you need to pre heat & control the cool down as well glad the flex worked
I've done lots block welds , drill hole either end of the crack and heat up block with torch and then stick weld with nickel rod and always had good results
you heat this guy let it cold.. lol
I paused the video at 4:20 just to read all the "weld tech" comments! Lol! Very entertaining!
cooments are always interesting,,, everybody makes a war, until they see a 3th world monkey welding a block...
Drill holes at end of Crack. I use might or stick works really good. No preheat. Lay out a good bead 1/2" long then grab a big hammer and pound the weld hard while it's still orange and soft. Continue to the end of the Crack 1/2" at a time. Hit the weld HARD on each short pass. Not trying to just knock off slag but squish the hot orange metal into the Crack itself.
Just a suggestion. Next time you do any welding, have Uncle Kathy video it through a Helmet. I'm sure you have a lot of young guys that have never welded and really dont know what that looks like. Love the videos, especially the more teaching oriented ones.
I used JB Weld on a very similar crack in a 305 back some years ago.
I'm still not sure if it was "repaired" but I did drive the car for 2 years afterwards with no leaks or problems. I've believed in JB Weld since then though.
I am a ticketed welder, but have never tried welding cast iron. But I DO have a cracked 327 and a 409 that I will attempt it on!😁😁
Good results??
Damn you master that flux core, I’ve always shit the bed with a flux core, mig with gas I’m good with, and I’ve ran miles of wire with.
Great job on the block repair, it’ll probably last for years!!
That repeated tapping with the slag hammer is also a form of stress relief
That was the point.
Yeah he said that in the video.
It's also a form of work hardening, just as media blasting is
That wasn't a slag hammer I believe it was a body hammer
That peening of the weld is the secret 100% guaranteed. Good observation sir!
If you don't own a welder or not confident in doing this with a welder use JB Weld. Drill a hole at the beginning of the Crack and at the end of the Crack, v the Crack out with a grinder and make sure it's good and clean then fill with JB Weld and you're good to go. JB Weld also works for stripped bolt holes just pack the bolt hole let harden and tap the hole and your done
Okay good. Now grind that off, and do it again a couple more times. The first bead was cold, no penetration on the cylinder head side. Last bead was contaminated from paint chips in the end cavity, and the hole in the middle is still through, needs to be drilled clean. Yes, it's possible to weld cast iron with any welder, but all welders need acetylene torch on the side to keel the weld clean and hot. Hammer needs a sharper tip for tapping the release. You can then hear from the ding how much and how unison is the tension in the block. Also a 3/8,1/2 " flat drill bit to give the seam some shape, then you can stitch it back and forth across the crack tapping the tension out between stitches. To create a water tight transition between cast iron and weld, both need to be hot and clean. Cast iron part in the oven, then torch the crack, weld a stitch, torch&tap, torch, weld, torch&tap, brush if necessary. You can work the whole crack on one sitting, if you keep the whole cast iron part hot. After the weld is done, put the whole block back in the oven. Then wrap it in fire blanket and thermal planket, and let it cool for a couple of days.
But this worked….
That made my day !
A few years ago I sold 2 ford tractors with cracks just like this... I was told you couldn't weld braze only. All I use is my 240v flex core welder. I wish I would have seen a video like this. Thanks good stuff
Hmm interesting, be good to see how it eventually holds up to the heat cycling an engine block goes through.
By the way there's a way to rewire a flux core welder a 120 volt welder one of the best ways is tie all the neutrals together not going to the switch and then get a relay like they use on the air compressors on the air conditioner and run all your power feeds to the relay you'll find out this works really well your welder will be able to weld really good I modified one like this and on low it was more powerful than it was on high the old way and I ran a 12-ft number gauge cord which is really really important because they use a 16 gauge cord on their welders.
To really find out if it has cracks are the NDT methods such as penetrate dye or radiography, You would have to prep the weld by grinding with die grinders to rid of inclusions before testing. Which I am confident those welds and the block itself have. As a former certified professional welder I wouldn't bet on it holding, but I have welded on some pot metals with a small prayer said first. Hope it holds!
looks like a train crash
Ive welded cast iron many times using an arc welder and nickel rod. I preheat, weld, then cover the weld with insulation to hold the heat and let it cool as slowly as possible. Never had a problem. I don’t flux core weld anything…..hate the stuff!
I fixed a cast iron Ferrari 246 Dino block that had been cracked at the motor mount with braze. It took a lot of heat but it came out nice. It had a boss broken off with a chunk missing that I just filled with nickel bronze and ground it back down. You couldn't tell after it was painted. The car had been T-boned at an intersection and was supposed to be rebuilt. I wanted the guy to replace the iron block with a Fiat Dino aluminum block but he wanted the original iron. Silicon bronze might have been better but the block was supposedly high nickel cast iron so it seemed right. Used a cutting tip and it took a second torch with a rosebud to get it hot enough.
I welded the entire back half of my 80 camaro together with that same welder. Frame rails, quarters, floor pans, etc.
When I was taking vocation school we had a farmer being in a cracked ford tractor block. I got it welded up and it looked sharp. The farmer left and I just put the process in my mind. Next week another frozen and cracked block came in. I welded it.. No cracks. This went on for just over a months. January came and very cold. On the 5th block. I heated the block but this weld just cracked from top to bottom. I enjoyed helping the farmers. I knew that needed my skills and it fed their families.
Impressive! I used a mig, with gas , to repair a cast grate in a wood stove many years ago in a similar fashion to what you did in this video. It worked very well.
The key to keeping it from cracking more is to drill a hole on either end of the cracking and pre heat it and burn all the impurities out of it for a nice clean weld . Weld something cold can create more cracking.
Do a video on the two cars you’ve used that welder on. Ive seen a ton of forums and professional welders say not to touch anything but exhaust pipe with that welder.
Uncle Tony just touching the fresh weld bead like it's no big deal. 🤣
I am amazed on how all the manufacturers have a variable of similarity and how they incorporate the similar aspects. I learn something new every video. Even if it’s a very small point.. good stuff
I have fixed alot of them by threading screws into the crack at both ends ,then in several more spots. This works because it stops the crack from vibrating. And then the crack just rust shut . It works
That’s awesome. Welding cast is definitely tough, I just welded a cast carburetor for my John Deere 50 and had the same idea just high amps low speed and small sections worked perfectly and saved me about 500 bucks. Nearly the same welder I have the titanium flux core from HarborFreight.
I hope you don't mind me suggesting you buy some anti-spatter spray. It works amazing with flux core welding, all those little "dingle berries" around the weld come right off.
Thats awesome. Nice job! Looks like you are having fun building and experimenting.
Idk what I would do without utg channel love it God bless
The 350 small block chevy was made for many years and proved to be very realiable through the Vortec era.
The first Dodge I ever bought was a 2000 Ram truck it was a factory 360 magnum was rated at 350 ft lbs,and 255 hp.
I drove it hard for 7 years (winters) drove it through 3 foot of snow,climbed through it like nothing,drove it through the mud up to the rocker panels.
Parked it put it back on the road and parked it,it's been 14 years,I throw a battery it it and it will start,theres no knocking or ticking in the engine.
ITS DEFINITELY WORTH THE SHOT
This would make the Pakistani's proud! I am fascinated by their repair videos. Did you consider stitch welding then filling, so you aren't chasing the stresses from one end to the other? As a welding idiot, I only know what I've seen, and never have I seen cast iron welded with any great success. Bravo!
I know what you mean about the Pakistani's . They are very creative in their repairs, with a Can-Do attitude.
if only they could build a toilet and working plumbing they'd be all set
Welding with my dad's occupation and a big portion of his life. At the home shop he would not have welded the block but then back then they were plentiful. Cast iron definitely has many unique characteristics that play against a good well job happening. We used to bake the parts in an old oversized oven. It was bright pink too hot pink. I throw that in because everybody gave him grief about it he said he should paint it. The paint on the stove is another subject. He had great success. But on exhaust manifolds he would absolutely never guaranteed that they would work and tried to talk person out of it! Try to give him just go buy another one someplace else. If that didn't work then he would weld it with no guarantees. There was two times maybe even a third time that I remember it didn't work at least not for any period of time. They brought it back to him and said will pay to have it fixed again because what you said was true. He would look at the part while it was cold and while it's hot and figure out some slightly different way on the repair. Those parts did not come back a third time and he would check and they were still using the parts. Oh he welded heads intake exhaust manifolds various tractor housing parts as long as it would fit in that oven. By the way there is no guarantees but he never charged them for that second repair. He knew these guys had no other option because before internet you can find these parts and maybe still can't. Now my dad would do the same kind of parts that were in cast aluminum. He did not stick around those of course. Over the years I realized many life lessons that I'd learned without knowing it. Not to mention how to fix things in that shop those lessons learned. According to your comment you have an interest in learning at least watching these things. But one comes with the other watch and learn kind of thing. My dad would also have me pet the part back into that oven make some adjustments on the setting and the timer. That way the cooling off was regulated. So it was a long process but the oven took care of most of it as far as the time needed we were just walk away. So for whatever reason I don't normally mention the second part on the oven after the repair. There's the secret behind the wheel shop easy bake oven. That's what my dad would call it because of the grief they gave him about the color you might as well own it and throw it back. All in fun of course. By the way we had the contract if you will with BF Goodrich Tire recap facility to repair their giant aluminum molds. They would always crack where to tread pattern was. So not only did you have to repair but you had to massage the lines so that there would be no blemish and finished tread pattern of the tires. Man did I ever have a fortunate childhood! We never got rich off of that stuff as far as money just the knowledge. So hope you find it interesting about the easy bake oven. It was an oversized oven designed probably back in the mid-60s at the latest for oversized baking and canning of food. If you wish to try to copy it. Mom is happy with my dad got it because that meant my dad no longer had to bake filet mignon of exhaust manifold in her oven again. Also this contributed to the success of the weld because it was a little bit of a distance from the shop to the house. But I was the monkey as such and proud of it, that ran it back and forth. Later on I would run with Olympians but never was one naturally. My 4 minute and 13 seconds mile was not quite good enough even at that time. But I got to run with a lot of heroes in the athlete realm. So one never knows you got the idea anyway I just wanted to share that quote unquote easy bake oven part of the equation. It was a big oven probably 30% taller and over twice as long and 50% deeper. Plus my dad had build special racks over time as he needed them for individual type of parts to fit into the oven Bay. And yes the oven did have a timer on it built-in. So it would cool down quite evenly. If you read all of this thank you. I just wish my dad was still around so we can answer any questions you might have. The Hoot of it all is that he would have enjoyed sharing knowledge with others on a RUclips platform. But timing did not work out. Hey I apologize for the long unrequested reply. Merry Christmas
The blocks I've seen them repair spend a long time in a fire before and after to heat the block and slowly cool it after.
I enjoy the overseas welding videos when they are wearing shorts and flip-flops! They are my favorite.
DK, ASE master tech since 78, retired.
I did exactly what you did to my 305 mercruser block on my boat few years back, well maybe it's been 10 years wow time Flys. Anyway its been holding fine.
the idea is good, I wish that it will seal peramnently that crack but my doupy is rather high because the steel used ( or any ferrpus alloy) will pick the carbon of the cast iron and becomes hard as glass so , when the engine will be pushed hard, the bolck will resonnate and the weld will fail ( partially or completely ).
It is the reason why we use nickel based rod to weld cast iron or bronze when brazing ( nickel silver is also used )
Interesting experiment. There are several good rods for that use. You need a few heat cycles before you will know. I don't have great hope, because the cast is not getting hot enough. hope you follow up, love to see how long it lasts.
I think he's good... as long as it doesnt freeze again with water in the block.
I would still really like to see the ancient method demonstrated sometime please.
Union ironworker
That means I have and have been certified to weld bridges, schools, hospitals, ECT. Done welding for pipefitters.
Conventional wisdom is preheat and post heat for cast iron, and yup got paid to do it, and done it successfully.
Mopar blocks are high quality metal, ie closer to a true steel.
Welding sheet metal, you do small sections, dots really, and move around to prevent warping (cast doesn't like to warp and cracks instead)
Hope it works for him, not everyone has a torch set and the pockets to run them long enough to preheat and post heat.
And like he said, it's an experiment.
Be interesting to see how it holds up.
***
A clarification
Preheat and post heat
The point is twofold
Spread out the expansion from heat over a larger area instead of confining it to just the weld area.
Heating metal plastifies it allowing it to move/bend/warp without cracking.
Post heating returns it to it's "working state" at a gradual rate reducing stresses and micro cracks.
I'm sure Lincoln has videos breaking that down far better than that, but that's the short version
Looks like a neat engine to play around with.
Use cast rods, watch my video of welding up heat crossovers. Its not as bad as you think. I use a needle descaler the stop the cracking. Works well
But this worked...
@@UncleTonysGarage I think people miss your point, doing a job using what you have ; keeping cost to a minimum
More than one way to skin a cat
@@UncleTonysGarage it sure did. Makes me wonder how it will cope with a few heat cycles, I'm really interested to see that. Never used flux core so im genuinely interested. Not a troll 😂
No offence, but I'd have a lot more faith in a JB Weld repair. That weld will open up at the first opportunity.@@UncleTonysGarage
Uncle Tony your the best! I enjoy the old-school Hot Rod Hacks! Some of these repairs will outlive us! Cool Video man!
After done welding I would pour it to top of freeze plugs. With block fill. I'd use a larger remote oil cooler and make it a work horse. Done a couple that way over the years and worked great.
Nothing to loose is a pretty cool hand ! We would do it with a torch in one and 7018 rod in the other .
Ol boilermaker here, little tip, heat it screaming hot, weld and inch or so, peen with a needle scaler, heat, weld, beat, repeat. Then hit it with heat a couple times as it cools to control cooling rate. Works every time. Done it dozens of times with 7018.
Thank you for sharing your Wizardry of better times. Fixing that which could not normally be fixed. Educating the next generation for the difficult times ahead. Great show!
Hey I'm an optimistic person and you're talking about difficult times ahead. Well being a positive person as well, I believe your positively right. That's unfortunate. It is interesting how we need this whole time knowledge and ability and it is so much erased from our society.It was somewhat unique even when I was growing up with it as a kid. Covid shortages should have taught all of us to go back and learn this the best way we can since the old timers are pretty much gone. I suppose someone growing up during the depression and wartime years when they really had to make you with very little available have its benefits of Life lessons learned. I'm glad that I always enjoyed hearing history from the perspective of my grandmother. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst. Merry Christmas
Uncle Tony Droppin Dimes👌
Great job looks like it's guna hold, thanks for the video, all the best to you and your loved ones
Good tips and good info Tony! Thanks for the video
Use to be general practice in the old days to weld cast blocks and other cast iron with a stick welder and stainless rod and they stitched them with the rod. They would grind out the cracks all the way to the bottom of it and then grind vees across the cracks toward each end of the crack and in the center of the crack they'd weld the crack between the stitches and go down one of the stitches at one end of their weld and weld up on the opposite end where they started the weld to reheat their end weld and they'd just keep working the block that way till it was completely welded and then let it cool reheating weld evey 2-5 minutes with an old blow torch. I've pulled several old tractors out of the weeds welded like that and several old 30s and 40s cars that were welded the same way and it took me a few years to figure it out and to see an old timer do it and they didn't pull the engines to do it they welded them in place all together none of the sand packing or ash packing everyone says to do with cast but most old timers welded cast with stainless or they brazed it with bronze but most all cracked engines i have ever came across were stainless welded
another trick for welding cast iron, is make a jig that will hold a shitton of Playground sand , No or really low moisture,Preheat the crack with a torch , doesnt have to be red hot just to give the weld a good bite at the start then do your weld, then fill your jig with as much sand as you can pile on top of it. its not about the weld its the cooling off, its gotta be really slow.
Done it just like this on a handful of SBCs - worked out fine.
I have seen a crankshaft cut apart and rewelded together with a wire welder and it worked perfectly fine. I bet this will outlast the rest of the block.
I would have married my Lincoln SP170 mig welder decades ago if it were legal to do so , but you can get good service out of the cheaper ones as all is electric
Where did you see a crankshaft cut apart and welded back together?
@@tonyelliott7734 probly one of the Pakistani channels ,those guys are always doing crazy things
@@brettjohnson8009
That's what I was thinking. And I doubt that crank lasted very long...lol
They probably do just fine. I used to shorten axles by cutting them in the center and welding them back. To my knowledge, none of them ever broke afterward.@@tonyelliott7734
I’m happy to see a 361 getting some attention, and I completely agree with you, the B & RB engine designs have so many things going for them, dry intake, front distributor, external easily accessed oil pump and deep skirt block all quickly come to mind.
Not to mention serviceable water pump that only needs a new impeller unit instead of unbolting the whole thing!
We built a 10-second motor with a welded up block friend of mine had a big block Chevy with a crack similar that was welded up had a couple of pin holes in it we put some moroso block seal in it never had a problem motor ran tens all day long it can be done 😁
Not to take away on your theory and technic of cracked block repairs, way back in the 80’s a customer came to me about a GM 4 cyl I/O boat engine that did not get fully drained for the winter season. The water cooled intake manifold and block had several water jacket cracks. I ground out all of the cracks and used JB Weld on it. Several years later that engine was still pulling skiers and having fun on the lake w/o any leaks!
I've done the same thing on a 289 and was still holding 5 yrs later
"spider man" is gonna have a field day with this one!
I've welded cast iron with flux core wire. It actually works pretty well
Thanks again Mr Tony!
Been waiting for this, I thought you were going to use an arc welder. Looks good.
I knew he was planning to pin/stitch it shut, but I also figured he would change his mind like he always does. I'm a bit surprised that he tried it with a flux core welder though!
@@livewire2759 at least he doesn't have a dirty mind. He is always changing it.
@@mattgemfran LOL That's a good one...
Flux core certainly has its uses, great for outdoors or in a draughty shed, you need to revisit the welds and fill any porosity holes after brushing and grinding but it gets the job done eventually .
So you think this well has a good chance of holding? Just asking because of the points you made.
I find I only get porosity if there's rust scale or slag in the weld path, if you're down to bare metal and brush between passes it works a lot better.
Just picked up an original 1966, 361 and 727 for 250 bucks ! Ran and drove, guy was swapping it out for a hellcat ! Can't wait to drop it in! I would love to hear more info dump on the 350 and 361 early BB engines !
Whenever I've welded cast iron I drill both ends of the crack, grind open the crack a bit, heat the crack with a torch, weld it up, and keep the torch on it incrementally to let it cool slowly. MIG, TIG, stick with cast iron rod... There's a hundred ways to skin that cat. Personally I've been successful with all methods.
Do you think that applying short stitches of weld may have allowed the cast iron to shrink away from the weld with the weld material "stretching" as it cooled and preventing the cast iron from cracking? Is there a possibility of new cracks forming along the weld when the block is put into service with heating and cooling cycles of the cast iron?
Definitely.
I've had good luck welding cast iron as you are describing, but for the best results it should be preheated and then post heated to prevent cooling too quick
Mate I love watching your vids
It's not the machine but the Man that uses it .
I have done that myself a few times, Follow up with stop Leak made of metal ,that powdered stuff.
I’ve used hard wire successfully, and currently have Mig brazing wire that I believe would work great too.
When using hard wire, I weld about 1/4” at a time, and then peen that weld with my chipping hammer to “stretch” the weld.
I have the same cheap a!@ mig. I can't wait to break some iron. I take it that you are dumping little heat into the small weld are at a given time. We will call it Uncle Tony's cold weld might adventure.
I have done cracks with a stick welder and nickel rod. Weld a bit and put sand over it to get slower cooling.
Glad to see ppl neglectin lent stuff hasn't tainted you, coz It's sure pinched my freckle.