You have made the best video for exactly what I was looking for my friend. I wanted to know what sound quality I will get from apple tv through tidal to the amp. I will buy it just to have music from tidal, but now I am learning from you that I will not be able to get the maximum sound quality and that is desperate. If I connect a dac for MQA to the TV which will be the apple tv, and connect it to the amp via optical, will I be able to hear maximum quality.?
I think you will be better with a streaming music player like the $350 NAD CS1. It supports Tidal, MQA and has both COAX and Optical digital outputs as well as a 24/192kHz TI DAC. If you are willing to step up, the Bluesound Node $599 which is from a sister brand of NAD. -Jon
I am a huge Apple TV fan as I have three of them in the house. They all have kid and wife approval which is paramount. With that being said, audio has always been the #1 issue with Apple TV and your video is just another example. Apple continues to use PCM and Dolby MAT for its formats and won’t let any other piece of hardware decode. This especially comes into play with older TVs without eARC because Apple TV doesn’t allow audio passthrough or bitstream. It’s frustrating that they are the last holdout in the streaming world when it’s comes to this. It’s especially frustrating if you’re a Plex user.
I would run through the Apple TV. That will give you a dedicated processor for streaming vs. the TV that is already handling the heavy video processing. Furthermore, the experience is likely better through the Apple TV to search. As for video quality it shouldn’t degrade. -Jon
Ok, the reason why I asked about that specific feature is because my Samsung S22 ultra phone did away with the 3.5 mm jack access and does work via c-port with a dongle. Alot of Samsung phone users are upset about them taking the headphone jack away mostly because the phone can't be charged while listening to headphones hard wired directly.
The great about Apple TV is updates and it’s power SOC. I suspect this 2022 will be supported for about 8 years. The new video feature for fast switching it’ll be great
Thank you - I feel it is important to get such details correct. Working of a part 2 with more devices added (NVidia Shield, Roku Ultra, WiiM Pro, etc) so I have a chance to get right for that video -Jon
Just ordered my new 2022 apple tv 4k 128gb / wi-fi and ethernet; but does it still include the - infrared port? If so, would you know where it is located?
Marvin I've had mine for 2-weeks. The new Remote has fully discharged. So, I grabbed my really old Apple TV 3rd gen thin remote with 3-buttons and uses a CD3022 battery. It worked. Press MENU to Wake the Apple TV 4K, then have at it.
@@rubtron8082 Well, the issue is the infra-red port near the on-light which is very difficult to see. Bottom-line: It still exists! Otherwise my Control4 remote would be toast!
Drives me crazy that its not possible to stream HiRes. But: I did basically the same test setting with a marantz mcr 612 and an Apple TV . You get technically the higher bitrate via heos but it seems that the connection via apple tv is very good and sounds better than via heos and amazon music.
Great breakdown Jon! Couple comments: 1.) I’m surprised even with HEOS you were able to see 24/192; were you using Audyssey at this time? I think Audyssey downsamples to 48kHz anyway, so your input may be 24/192, but the output will be stuck at 48, if using Audyssey. That’s why for spacial audio, I don’t think it matters that AppleTV outputs 48k max, cause most users are either using a soundbar or a mainstream home theater receiver. The higher end products are niche, which Apple clearly doesn’t cater to those markets (which is a shame). 2.) I’ve connected a MacBook Pro directly to my Michi Preamp, which can decode at 384. Using Apple Music, the MacBook does output 24/192, and in stereo, it does sound superb to the Marantz pre amp in 2ch mode. I can see why people would want this. 3.) have you used the Marantz app on the phone? Click the little (?) on the home page - it’s the I/O information, which tells you the audio sampling coming in and going out. If Audyssey is enabled, the output is always fixed to 48kHz of course. Thanks!
07:35 Correction*** Thread allows you to add “non-HomeKit” devices to your smart home. All HomeKit approved devices will work using any AppleTV as a smart home hub. If you MUST have Amazon/Google/Ring devices in your home spying on you, then get the 4k w/Wifi+Ethernet
I love the attention to the technical limits. That said, human ears can't hear the high res audio anyway; it's good for preventing artifacts while mastering but streaming or playback it's just going to make the files take up more space. Humans hear up to 20,000 some Hz. Nyquist frequency would be 40,000 Hz. 48,000 Hz sample rate is plenty for human hearing.
Valid point. My perspective is we should have the option to configure for the higher rates as even Apple Music has the hi-res version on their servers. Some say the non-audible frequencies provide for smoother experience. Let those who believe have that experience. I’m not going to say they are wrong. Jon
CAPS 2 C NOT SHOUTING…. IM 65 AND MY HEARING IS NOT AT ITS BEST, HOWEVER WHEN I PLAY MUSIC FROM AMAZON HD THRU YAMAHA A6A, THE HIGHER SPEC AUDIO SOUNDS CLEANER /BETTER… AND IVE HAD OTHERS SAY THE SAME THING WHEN LISTENING TO MY SETUP…. I DONT USE THE APPLE TV TO LISTEN TO MUSIC AND WILL NOT BE BUYING THE NEW/NOT SO NEW APPLE TV…
If you are upgrading from prior model that is true. I feel if you are starting new or haven’t upgraded for a while this version is a good one to jump in with. I wouldn’t purchase the prior model even if they is a price break. -Jon
I have the latest Roku, FireTV and WiiM streamings ready to review and I will be checking to see how each of those compare. I will say that I like the AppleTV interface far more than the FireTV interface. Looking forward to getting some time with the other models to see where they fit as my preference-Jon
So the Apple Music app is loaded directly on your Smart TV. If so, I often find the SmartTV apps lacking what is delivered with external streaming appliances.-Jon
I'm just wondering if I was to purchase a new Apple TV therefore giving my old Apple TV to a friend who happens to live at a different address, would he then be able to view the movies I've already purchased. Basically sharing the same account at two different addresses 🤔
So I pretty much get the same performance as my Xbox S, which also has an optical output. I was surprised to find the app on the xbox store, but knew that it wouldn't be 96/24. I would like an AppleTV to play music & music videos for movie nights, but I might as well do it on the console that has a BluRay Drive. Or any device that can play AppleMusic High-Res, without setting up my ipad with a USBc DAC. Apple put all their eggs into the Spartial Audio basket. It might take an AirPods generation, that supports 96/24 to promote Audio Quality.
Thanks for adding the comparison against XBox as being equivalent for audio playback. I agree, but with note some with still prefer the user interface of the AppleTV - but is that worth the cost of entry? I just bought the latest Roku, FireTV and WiiM devices for further comparison. -Jon
Not only is the box smaller the letters T and V are not on the picture next to the Apple logo, thats how you distinguish it from the old AF Apple TV 4K Gen 2. Keep it simple 🤘🏾😃👍🏾
It took me a while, but I see it now. On the unit itself. I was looking on the packaging box it shipped with. Wow - that is a cool tip - they removed the letter "TV" from the top of the unit. Thanks for sharing. -Jon
It is perplexing that Apple caps the bit rate to CD quality, Jon, especially since they have the second largest Hi Resolution library (just under Tidal --20M vs 70M respectively). We use Amazon music for our Hi Resolution streaming needs but it would be nice for Apple to step it up especially with new spatial audio tracks being released daily/weekly. For a company that prides itself on inclusivity, you would think it would include the folks who can play and even prefer hi-rez. C'mon Apple, step up your game.
On their website pages they tell you to use an external DAC. While the original reason may be to avoid the larger file sizes associated with hi-res, the Bionic A15 chip and memory on board there shouldn’t be an issue - the competition is doing it with less. Just being lazy or stubborn or both.
I use Apple music by attaching an HDMI cable to my Mac to my Anthem AVM70. When 192khz/24 is available. Just skip the apple tv. No need to turn on your tv anyway when listening to music
Nice comparison review. I am fully immersed in the Apple eco system and do find it frustrating that the new ATV doesn't support higher resolution audio files, since Apple Music has 24/192 content. But that doesn't mean the ATV isn't useful as an audio streamer. It does make a very convenient medium for spatial audio (Atmos) for me, by having both native Apple Music and AmazonHD. But, for high res 2 channel, it just doesn't cut it. Actually, about the best way to stream high resolution music is still a computer unfortunately. With a computer you can stream from any service, lossless and high resolution depending on the source, as well as .dsd files which no other streamer that I know of will even pass. The main problem is the inconvenience of losing the slick ATV GUI and potentially a noisier digital interface (USB). I still use a Gen 1 ATV4k and I have no complaints with it's performance relative to the new ones, but I use a projector and I can't take advantage of HDR10+ or DolbyVision. I've never had an issue with speed either (no gaming). My biggest complaint is the remote is so small I''m constantly fishing it out of the chair. I would also like to see Apple give us an ATV app for iOS that allows you to control the ATV without a display. I'm not talking remote (that exists of course) I'm talking the full ATV GUI in an app. Apple is not alone, of course. Sonos, who makes a great streaming interface, limits their high res to 24/96. I understand not including a high res capable DAC in these relatively inexpensive streamers, but why can't they allow the files to pass to an external DAC or processor? It will be ineresting to see if indeed the Firestick and others do indeed begin to pass high resolution files as you mention. Might be the solution and impeteus for Apple to step up there game in 2025 or so.
Great share. I too have a couch that eats remote and the Apple TV is the easier to lose there. I may get a FireTV and/Roku to compare. They are at least affordable to purchase for the good of the channel.
Look this mystifies me a bit Nyquist tells us thst if wecsample at 2x the freqenzy we get a perfect representation of a ban limited signal. Human hearing is apparentlt limited ro about 22Khz so a sampeling rare of 44Khz should be enough and here we have 48 ( ok a bit of margin us always nice since no filter is perfect etc.). My question then becomes why would we need any more for distribution, for recording where further processing is to be done, absolutely all the headroom you can get without blowing the budge. And just to stop the "you are an apple fanboy" comments, I would ask the same question on any playback device that is "criticised" for stopping at 48Khz sampling rate
I think yours is a practical response. While I think you are likely right, i just take issue with limiting the sampling rate when there is content on the Apple servers at higher rates. Just pass it through whether it makes a difference or not. -Jon
Apple TV always have its limitations. For example, when using Prime video it’s always slow and takes a while to get to 4K while on my shield it’s instantly. I got an Apple TV only for using airplay for my laptop and using the Apple TV service, that’s it
@@ripewave the other reason I like or actually need my shield is for my blue ray library that I put on a 6TB hard drive. I use Kodi and I attach the HD to one of the usb3 in the back of the shield. Makes things so easy for me to be able to play my movies and concerts in 4K and high res audio formats not having to use my blueray
Yes, very disappointed. I can pretty much watch movies through my tv speakers and be happy with it. However, when I want to listen to music I want a digital out to run into my DAC and then into my preamp/integrated amp to listen in stereo. Since I use iTunes for my music library the Apple TV already has everything I need on the tv screen. But since I can’t use a digital out, I have to set-up another WiiM streaming device to use Apple AirPlay 2, then rout the streamer out through my Denafrips DAC and into my Yamaha Aventage RX3080 AV set-up in Stereo bi-amping, 2.2 mode.
You have made the best video for exactly what I was looking for my friend. I wanted to know what sound quality I will get from apple tv through tidal to the amp. I will buy it just to have music from tidal, but now I am learning from you that I will not be able to get the maximum sound quality and that is desperate. If I connect a dac for MQA to the TV which will be the apple tv, and connect it to the amp via optical, will I be able to hear maximum quality.?
I think you will be better with a streaming music player like the $350 NAD CS1. It supports Tidal, MQA and has both COAX and Optical digital outputs as well as a 24/192kHz TI DAC. If you are willing to step up, the Bluesound Node $599 which is from a sister brand of NAD. -Jon
@@ripewave Yes, now that I've learned that apple tv doesn't work for what I need it for. I'm going to go to a streamer to get my work done right.
I believe that will be your best bet. Good luck! - Jon
I am a huge Apple TV fan as I have three of them in the house. They all have kid and wife approval which is paramount. With that being said, audio has always been the #1 issue with Apple TV and your video is just another example. Apple continues to use PCM and Dolby MAT for its formats and won’t let any other piece of hardware decode. This especially comes into play with older TVs without eARC because Apple TV doesn’t allow audio passthrough or bitstream. It’s frustrating that they are the last holdout in the streaming world when it’s comes to this. It’s especially frustrating if you’re a Plex user.
Thanks Big Jim! Donate to the channel and support the channel 🙌 😀 👍
I bought a new tv and have the new Apple TV. Is quality better on the box or would video quality be better streaming from the tv app.
I would run through the Apple TV. That will give you a dedicated processor for streaming vs. the TV that is already handling the heavy video processing. Furthermore, the experience is likely better through the Apple TV to search. As for video quality it shouldn’t degrade. -Jon
I wonder if the remote usb-C port is compatible with an auxiliary 3.5 mm dongle for hard wire connection to head phones?
I believe the usb-C port of the remote is only for charging purposes. You can’t plug is a headphone as with competing streaming devices.
Ok, the reason why I asked about that specific feature is because my Samsung S22 ultra phone did away with the 3.5 mm jack access and does work via c-port with a dongle.
Alot of Samsung phone users are upset about them taking the headphone jack away mostly because the phone can't be charged while listening to headphones hard wired directly.
The great about Apple TV is updates and it’s power SOC. I suspect this 2022 will be supported for about 8 years.
The new video feature for fast switching it’ll be great
Capital B is byte, lower case b is bit. So, Gigabytes of memory/storage, bits of network speed.
Thank you - I feel it is important to get such details correct. Working of a part 2 with more devices added (NVidia Shield, Roku Ultra, WiiM Pro, etc) so I have a chance to get right for that video -Jon
Have 2 older apple TVs. This new one is a true Gamechanger! 👍
I use this streamer daily. -Jon
@@ripewave we now have an Apple TV on all our tv's. makes it easy for everyone in our family. our 1080P Apple TV is still working great.
Just ordered my new 2022 apple tv 4k 128gb / wi-fi and ethernet; but does it still include the - infrared port? If so, would you know where it is located?
Marvin I've had mine for 2-weeks. The new Remote has fully discharged. So, I grabbed my really old Apple TV 3rd gen thin remote with 3-buttons and uses a CD3022 battery. It worked. Press MENU to Wake the Apple TV 4K, then have at it.
@@rubtron8082 Well, the issue is the infra-red port near the on-light which is very difficult to see. Bottom-line: It still exists! Otherwise my Control4 remote would be toast!
Drives me crazy that its not possible to stream HiRes. But: I did basically the same test setting with a marantz mcr 612 and an Apple TV . You get technically the higher bitrate via heos but it seems that the connection via apple tv is very good and sounds better than via heos and amazon music.
Great breakdown Jon! Couple comments:
1.) I’m surprised even with HEOS you were able to see 24/192; were you using Audyssey at this time? I think Audyssey downsamples to 48kHz anyway, so your input may be 24/192, but the output will be stuck at 48, if using Audyssey. That’s why for spacial audio, I don’t think it matters that AppleTV outputs 48k max, cause most users are either using a soundbar or a mainstream home theater receiver. The higher end products are niche, which Apple clearly doesn’t cater to those markets (which is a shame).
2.) I’ve connected a MacBook Pro directly to my Michi Preamp, which can decode at 384. Using Apple Music, the MacBook does output 24/192, and in stereo, it does sound superb to the Marantz pre amp in 2ch mode. I can see why people would want this.
3.) have you used the Marantz app on the phone? Click the little (?) on the home page - it’s the I/O information, which tells you the audio sampling coming in and going out. If Audyssey is enabled, the output is always fixed to 48kHz of course.
Thanks!
07:35 Correction*** Thread allows you to add “non-HomeKit” devices to your smart home. All HomeKit approved devices will work using any AppleTV as a smart home hub. If you MUST have Amazon/Google/Ring devices in your home spying on you, then get the 4k w/Wifi+Ethernet
Thanks for the correction and extra details. -Jon
I love the attention to the technical limits. That said, human ears can't hear the high res audio anyway; it's good for preventing artifacts while mastering but streaming or playback it's just going to make the files take up more space. Humans hear up to 20,000 some Hz. Nyquist frequency would be 40,000 Hz. 48,000 Hz sample rate is plenty for human hearing.
Valid point. My perspective is we should have the option to configure for the higher rates as even Apple Music has the hi-res version on their servers. Some say the non-audible frequencies provide for smoother experience. Let those who believe have that experience. I’m not going to say they are wrong. Jon
CAPS 2 C NOT SHOUTING…. IM 65 AND MY HEARING IS NOT AT ITS BEST, HOWEVER WHEN I PLAY MUSIC FROM AMAZON HD THRU YAMAHA A6A, THE HIGHER SPEC AUDIO SOUNDS CLEANER /BETTER… AND IVE HAD OTHERS SAY THE SAME THING WHEN LISTENING TO MY SETUP…. I DONT USE THE APPLE TV TO LISTEN TO MUSIC AND WILL NOT BE BUYING THE NEW/NOT SO NEW APPLE TV…
Thanks for all your videos! What is another option than the apple tv? I refuse to have anything to do with having to have an apple account. :(
Nvidia shield
@@musicjewell9329 thanks!
Hopefully a software update will give it high res but until then I will stick to airplay
That would be ideal for me as well. I really like the AppleTV experience. -Jon
If there’s a speed increase it’s very minimal. Nothing about this version screams I have to buy it right now
If you are upgrading from prior model that is true. I feel if you are starting new or haven’t upgraded for a while this version is a good one to jump in with. I wouldn’t purchase the prior model even if they is a price break. -Jon
That's exactly the information I was looking for. Thank you very much !!! I was going to buy it, but if there is no 192kHz, it's not worth it :/
I have the latest Roku, FireTV and WiiM streamings ready to review and I will be checking to see how each of those compare. I will say that I like the AppleTV interface far more than the FireTV interface. Looking forward to getting some time with the other models to see where they fit as my preference-Jon
@@ripewave I have Apple Music on Samsung TV super convenient but no audio option. 256kbps listening experience....
So the Apple Music app is loaded directly on your Smart TV. If so, I often find the SmartTV apps lacking what is delivered with external streaming appliances.-Jon
I'm just wondering if I was to purchase a new Apple TV therefore giving my old Apple TV to a friend who happens to live at a different address, would he then be able to view the movies I've already purchased. Basically sharing the same account at two different addresses 🤔
I believe so. I bring mine on trips and successfully access my accounts. Simultaneously accessing the same account can be blocked. Jon
So I pretty much get the same performance as my Xbox S, which also has an optical output. I was surprised to find the app on the xbox store, but knew that it wouldn't be 96/24. I would like an AppleTV to play music & music videos for movie nights, but I might as well do it on the console that has a BluRay Drive. Or any device that can play AppleMusic High-Res, without setting up my ipad with a USBc DAC. Apple put all their eggs into the Spartial Audio basket. It might take an AirPods generation, that supports 96/24 to promote Audio Quality.
Thanks for adding the comparison against XBox as being equivalent for audio playback. I agree, but with note some with still prefer the user interface of the AppleTV - but is that worth the cost of entry? I just bought the latest Roku, FireTV and WiiM devices for further comparison. -Jon
Not only is the box smaller the letters T and V are not on the picture next to the Apple logo, thats how you distinguish it from the old AF Apple TV 4K Gen 2. Keep it simple 🤘🏾😃👍🏾
It took me a while, but I see it now. On the unit itself. I was looking on the packaging box it shipped with. Wow - that is a cool tip - they removed the letter "TV" from the top of the unit. Thanks for sharing. -Jon
It is perplexing that Apple caps the bit rate to CD quality, Jon, especially since they have the second largest Hi Resolution library (just under Tidal --20M vs 70M respectively). We use Amazon music for our Hi Resolution streaming needs but it would be nice for Apple to step it up especially with new spatial audio tracks being released daily/weekly. For a company that prides itself on inclusivity, you would think it would include the folks who can play and even prefer hi-rez. C'mon Apple, step up your game.
On their website pages they tell you to use an external DAC. While the original reason may be to avoid the larger file sizes associated with hi-res, the Bionic A15 chip and memory on board there shouldn’t be an issue - the competition is doing it with less. Just being lazy or stubborn or both.
I use Apple music by attaching an HDMI cable to my Mac to my Anthem AVM70. When 192khz/24 is available. Just skip the apple tv. No need to turn on your tv anyway when listening to music
Nice comparison review. I am fully immersed in the Apple eco system and do find it frustrating that the new ATV doesn't support higher resolution audio files, since Apple Music has 24/192 content. But that doesn't mean the ATV isn't useful as an audio streamer. It does make a very convenient medium for spatial audio (Atmos) for me, by having both native Apple Music and AmazonHD. But, for high res 2 channel, it just doesn't cut it. Actually, about the best way to stream high resolution music is still a computer unfortunately. With a computer you can stream from any service, lossless and high resolution depending on the source, as well as .dsd files which no other streamer that I know of will even pass. The main problem is the inconvenience of losing the slick ATV GUI and potentially a noisier digital interface (USB).
I still use a Gen 1 ATV4k and I have no complaints with it's performance relative to the new ones, but I use a projector and I can't take advantage of HDR10+ or DolbyVision. I've never had an issue with speed either (no gaming). My biggest complaint is the remote is so small I''m constantly fishing it out of the chair.
I would also like to see Apple give us an ATV app for iOS that allows you to control the ATV without a display. I'm not talking remote (that exists of course) I'm talking the full ATV GUI in an app.
Apple is not alone, of course. Sonos, who makes a great streaming interface, limits their high res to 24/96. I understand not including a high res capable DAC in these relatively inexpensive streamers, but why can't they allow the files to pass to an external DAC or processor? It will be ineresting to see if indeed the Firestick and others do indeed begin to pass high resolution files as you mention. Might be the solution and impeteus for Apple to step up there game in 2025 or so.
Great share. I too have a couch that eats remote and the Apple TV is the easier to lose there.
I may get a FireTV and/Roku to compare. They are at least affordable to purchase for the good of the channel.
Look this mystifies me a bit Nyquist tells us thst if wecsample at 2x the freqenzy we get a perfect representation of a ban limited signal. Human hearing is apparentlt limited ro about 22Khz so a sampeling rare of 44Khz should be enough and here we have 48 ( ok a bit of margin us always nice since no filter is perfect etc.). My question then becomes why would we need any more for distribution, for recording where further processing is to be done, absolutely all the headroom you can get without blowing the budge.
And just to stop the "you are an apple fanboy" comments, I would ask the same question on any playback device that is "criticised" for stopping at 48Khz sampling rate
I think yours is a practical response. While I think you are likely right, i just take issue with limiting the sampling rate when there is content on the Apple servers at higher rates. Just pass it through whether it makes a difference or not. -Jon
Apple TV always have its limitations. For example, when using Prime video it’s always slow and takes a while to get to 4K while on my shield it’s instantly. I got an Apple TV only for using airplay for my laptop and using the Apple TV service, that’s it
I just bought a shield to try. I will have to compare Prime speed vs AppleTV. Thanks for pointing that out. -Jon
@@ripewave the other reason I like or actually need my shield is for my blue ray library that I put on a 6TB hard drive. I use Kodi and I attach the HD to one of the usb3 in the back of the shield. Makes things so easy for me to be able to play my movies and concerts in 4K and high res audio formats not having to use my blueray
Your use case makes sense. Although for audio isn’t the NVidia Shield based on Android which limits Hi-Res audio to 24bit/48kHz? -Jon
Thank you ! =)
Apple TV not supporting Hi-Res is a massive capital L.
Apple tv not supporting hi-res audio is ridicilous.
Yes, very disappointed. I can pretty much watch movies through my tv speakers and be happy with it. However, when I want to listen to music I want a digital out to run into my DAC and then into my preamp/integrated amp to listen in stereo. Since I use iTunes for my music library the Apple TV already has everything I need on the tv screen. But since I can’t use a digital out, I have to set-up another WiiM streaming device to use Apple AirPlay 2, then rout the streamer out through my Denafrips DAC and into my Yamaha Aventage RX3080 AV set-up in Stereo bi-amping, 2.2 mode.
Just saved me from purchasing one!
GIGABYTES NOT GIGABITS
Thanks - you are correct
@@ripewave good man. Thanks very thorough video!
1st!😂