The Perfect Boiler Replacement? Tepeo's Zero Emission Boiler
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- Опубликовано: 19 июл 2022
- For this product showcase we spoke to Johan Du Plessis, CEO and founder of tepeo, to learn about tepeo’s Zero Emission Boiler (ZEB®).
The ZEB is a plug-in replacement for a fossil fuel boiler - helping people (like Robert) get off of gas and oil with minimal changes to their home.
Using off-peak electricity, tepeo’s ZEB charges up when electricity is cheaper and greener, releasing heat to your existing radiators & hot water system just like a boiler - at high flow temperatures if needed.
The ZEB’s intelligent charging algorithm looks at your tariff, the weather, the grid carbon intensity and how much heat your home uses to automatically charge up - keeping running costs & carbon low, while also avoiding wasted heat.
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#cleanenergy #greenenergy #renewableenergy #solar #solarpv #netzero #tepeoheat #heatbattery #heatbatteries #heatpumps #zeroemissions #lowcarbonheat 
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I do enjoy these videos, but I wish Robert was a bit more cynical and asked a few more probing questions, instead of teaming up with the inventor/ceo/company hack and bigging-up whichever product is being shown off. Sometimes it feels like an extended advertainement worthy of the shopping channel. I know you want green tech to succeed - we all do, but not if it isn't any good.
Perhaps you could have asked whether they will open-source this or make an api available. Compared the efficiency to a heat-pump. Given us a break-down of your costs before and after, and maybe the expected payback time. Asked whether they are experiencing the same lead-time issues that every other company seems to be suffering from. etc.
This product is no different from instantaneous electric water heater, except with some bricks in it or at a push some phase change material in it. This box is no different from an off peak thermal wall mounted heater (bricks inside of it)
Yes this was hardly a review of the merits or shortcomings as you said, paid sponsorship and fan fare for anything remotely environmentally friendly... This product is hardly what they want you to think it is.
The problem is that 'probing questions' may result in answers which aren't 'on message' - so it'll never happen.......!!
To be fair they do point out at the start of the video that it's a paid promotion so it's clearly not intended to be objective. But I agree that even when a supplier hasn't paid Fully Charged for a promo Robert, in his enthusiasm, rarely aka difficult or probing questions and that reduces the value of both the podcasts and the videos. Doesn't need to be aggressive or negative, just probing. I'm sure there are people on the team and the online audience who could provide him with questions if he's not au fait with the technology.
@@jerrycornelius gosh, you're absolutely right. I had missed that.
I'm actually really surprised they take money for this sort of thing - rather calls into question the validity of anything they say in any of their reviews. Guess I'll be sceptical in future.
Paid promotion videos are useless. Never get a clear picture, it's just a paid advert.
I didn't watch this video with any hope that I could afford it and based on the limited info I found on the web, it seems I was correct. I feel this is the big problem with most, if not all of these green technologies: they are not affordable to enough people. My annual income is below the UK average which I suspect puts most of the products featured on this show out of my reach. Are we risking turning green living/sustainable technology into a two tier system? That you can only be green if you're well off? The irony is it seems that the people who would benefit most from savings on energy bills are the ones least likely to be able to afford to install the technology to create those savings
You're not wrong. Hopefully the govt will start to recognise thermal storage for the BUS. The £5k grant would dramatically reduce the cost of the unit.
Everything starts out more expensive.
And what aspect of life isn’t improved with more money? “Ugh, all these beautiful gold diggers trying to seduce me 😫”
@@richardlinares6314 You are more than likely correct but things starting off more expensive and then coming down in price doesn't help myself and people in my situation NOW, in the midst of a cost of living crisis. That's the problem with that argument: I need ways to reduce my fuel and energy costs now, not in x number of years time
This is true of anything really the latest most useful technology is always expensive.
I feel the same I don't even own a home yet as it's too expensive in the sense it will be crippling to pay a mortgage and maintain a house let alone any of the green tech to put in it 😂
Same with renting also crippling, housing is just flat out too much money 😅
(32 year old Bus Driver in South England living with parents 🥲)
Agreed. The cheapest technology available to most though is insulation and usage reduction. Our homes must be insulated better than they ever were years ago And have central heating. So perhaps we've got lazy in wasting heat. But we could still insulate better and reduce wastage in sure.
09:55 Thank you for pointing out that the boiler will work in 'stand alone mode' if the internet connection goes down.
This mode is extremely important for resilience & is a requirement for many customers.
It was slightly ambiguous as to whether he was saying it was resilient to temporary internet disconnection, or whether it could function 100% without the need for the internet. The latter is important to many people for multiple reasons.
I really wish they had a bluetooth connection for direct phone connectivity also.
@@anydaynow01 That would be the hard way to do it, because BlueTooth is distinctly short range. Better to tether via WiFi through the mobile phone.
That will be the least of your problems. It will fade into insignificance compared with sky high electricity bills.
This is not new, this is a re-branded GEC Nightstor that we used to fit in the 1980s and still maintain as they're 3x cheaper to run than instantaneous electric boilers. Nominal core temperature is around 700c, to the touch it's around 55-60c. Elements last 10-15 years as long as the boilers aren't abused and the storage capacity doesn't decrease.
It's nice to see someone bring another boiler out as the GEC Nightstor hasn't been made new for awhile but is still widely available. The technology is not new though it's 30 plus years old with added smart controls which is all we've been doing to the Nightstor boilers on renovations anyway.
If anyone is wondering the smallest boilers for GEC were arund 300kg and the largest was 2,500kg. Not wall mountable and in many cases unsuitable for flats unless you're having RSJ's fitted to support the weight.
Combined with a SMALL well insulated Home and coupled to LOW Temperature rads and smart controls on same could well stack up...
That is good to hear, is there an option for just showering?
We had one in our house, built mid 80s. Eventually replaced it with gas early 2000s. One neighbour still has theirs running, so 37 years! It was much bigger than this unit though. Also had to use peak time boost if it ran out.
We had a GEC Nightstore 100 in our last house. It was 30+ years old and still worked brilliantly. The only downside was that it was a massive old place that was impossible to properly insulate. In a smaller more efficient home it would be fantastic. Good to see it back.
I should have also said that it ran of three phase, so it charged up quickly.
Good to see storage radiators making a comeback. 😀
Not said by anyone who lived with storage heaters, mouldy walls and mattresses plus heat when you needed it and not when you did!
@@twogsds Perhaps you missed the irony in Grant's post!
@@MrAdopado perhaps, but it brought back horrible memories of my childhood!
Another up side is may use reclaimed bricks for storage 😅
I hope not, they are absolute rubbish,heat when you dont want it and run out by the time you do and cost a fortune to run properly.
My immersion heater elements are also “zero emission boilers” then. Wired up to an eddy they have all the smarts too.
How to use the air souice heat pump
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and probably heaps cheaper into the bargain.
After years of intensive research and development and hundreds of hours of computer analysis, you came up with my grandfather's tiled stove...wow amazing! 😀
As a product with an expectation of a long working life, what happens when the company goes out of business and their "cloud IoT" platform is turned off, will it continue to work with the need for constant firmware updates and remote monitoring for most efficient working? Is that "cloud" service free? Will it remain free if it is, or will it become a subscription service, thus impacting any ongoing costs?
Good point! I have a pile of cameras & thermostats made useless because their 'Cloud' service ceased to exist.
Sadly, where I live, an electric boiler (and electric resistive heat) would never be marketable due to prohibitively expensive electricity; oil & gas rule supreme here.
Yea, I like my smart devices but if you can only change the settings via a cloud service, that would be crap.
Let's remember that 60% of startups go bust within 3 years and it's estimated that 90% of startups fail eventually. Even Google abandons services on legacy devices, what assurance do we have that this company will always support the product for 15-20 years?
@@BobHannent 🎓
I don't think you buy this sort of thing ie they first of a kind...because of guarantees, you buy because of a moral obligation to reduce emissions.
@@paulruffy8389 the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I want this kind of thing but if you fork out for a big, heavy, expensive appliance then if it stops working when the supplier goes out of business then you have to junk it. And that's not very environmentally friendly!
There's a whole litany of devices that have been abandoned there's a phrase "the internet of sh*t" because of this. I'm no luddite, I love my smart devices, but I like them to have local control.
The key to Energy conservation is storage, and storage is what the public has to be constantly versed on. Thank you! When I was a young man back in the 70's here in the states we would go to the New Jersey coast for summer vacation the domestic hot water was supplied by a 50 gallon tank brushed with black tar on the roof "We had plenty of free" hot water. Some things are so simple an diesel
So from googling and another video:
* the unit is supposed to cost around 5kGBP
* it has a magnetite core, no phase change or anything, just dense heavy and cheap material.
* It also monitors net frequency. Once the number of installed units is large enough, Tepeo plans to use these units for frequency response. So depending on how the economics of that works, you should basically get your electrons for free, at least some of the time.
So while it is not as good as a heatpump, it is a solution for quite a number of existing installations, and a massive step in the right direction.
A storage radiator
@@ianbarry6615 This is smarter, has a better ability to NOT release stored heat if it's not needed. But yeah, same principle.
thanks for the explanation. they have'n't managed this in 15 min during the show which was little more than a sales pitch...
@@gyorgyangelkottbocz9766 Yeah and also, this is based on the premise that it can charge on off peak electricity. If we're 10 years on, and electric heating becomes the norm, I think that cheap electricity will become rare during winters. And then this non-heat pump, COP of 1, device will become really expensive indeed.
At least 3 times worse than a heat pump.
This is the technique I'm waiting for. Thanks!
It would be great to see a direct comparison with Sunamp
I was waiting for a full cost analysis of the new unit, compared with your previous system.... #disappointed 🤨
His house will be cold in the winter, they have turned down flow temps to about 50 degrees in the video. Old radiators at 50 degrees don't work. If they turn flow temps up to 70 degrees the radiatirs will work but the energy bill will go up ! fact
um?! this is an ad
@@markifi adsolutely!
We've used a fossil free boiler for the past 12 years,and it's worked perfectly. It's an IVT pump,available in the UK through Alto Energy.
How to use the air souice heat pump
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I'm using a Nibe F750 heat pump which takes energy from exhaust air. No unit outside. Also heats up storage during off peak hours. Also gives hot water. And reduced my electricity bill by 75%.
I love this - I wish it (or something like this) was available here in the US! In my particular case, though - we have a *steam* boiler, so the piping would have to be replaced.
Looks good. Can't wait for the combi boiler replacement version.
There either won't be one or the running costs will be astronomical.
I remember rebuilding an electric heat storage 'boiler' for a standard wet central heating system back in the 80s. It was the size of a fridge freezer, full of heat storage bricks, and heating elements. The heat stored in the bricks was then used to heat water for a standard wet central heating system. The electrics had completely failed so I had custom heating elements made, and rewired the whole thing.
There were a matching pair of houses side by side, both exactly the same inside and out. Except one had a standard gas boiler, the other had an electric boiler. It was a long term (ten years I think) experiment to compare the energy usage, by one of the utility companies of the day.
I was asked to repair it long after the experiment had ended as the then current occupier had a phobia of gas due to a gas explosion trauma. The housing association landlord asked me to rebuild and restore the boiler as there was no other option for their tenant. It was a long and complicated process but it was done and everyone was happy. That sparked my interest and awareness that it was possible to run a complete standard wet heating system on 'off peak' cheap electricity via a storage system, and now of course it is even more relevant with renewable electricity.
I am wondering how much the ZEB costs installed and if other companies will follow suit with their own all electric direct replacement boilers. I am certainly thinking about it for my own house now, but it would have to be a stand alone, non IoT installation if possible to provide long term future resilience.
How to use the air souice heat pump
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In the interview the chap from Tepeo said it would run standalone if needed. I take that to mean that it would recharge based on a typical schedule of discounted electric rates, rather than dialling in to see what the forecasted price was for dynamically priced electricity & to find when the interval of lowest CO2 would be.
Hey Robert - could you do a follow-up on how your ZEB has worked over the last year or so? Maybe also get into availability. Would love something like this for our house in Denmark, but as I see it's not available here?
Good idea. It's an insulated heat well. Explains the heavy weight.
brilliant, and very useful for peakshifting!
Maybe one day we will get a full presentation of the costs involved? And best of luck getting an on/off peak tariff these days!
I think the big risk with this kind of product is that, as we get more EVs and more of this type of system, overnight off peak electricity will get more expensive. Currently it’s on approximate parity with gas, but it could easily increase sharply
These things will also need to be on during the day when electricity is expensive.
Apparently I cant have a heat pump so this looks very interesting. Thanks again Fully Charged 🌿👍💚
I’ve been thinking recently why doesn’t this type of system exist - clearly it does! Thank you for sharing
is it not a computerised storage radiator
@@waltermcphee3787 yes
@@waltermcphee3787 probably oversimplifies it but I guess so!
I think I'll stick with a normal hot water tank, a pair of 3kw immersion heaters and something like a myenergy eddi to control it all and pocket the remaining £7500 towards future bills.
It's a thermal heat store like a hot water cylinder with an immersion heater that can only hold a limited amount of heat. Next, they will be selling electric storage heaters which are wireless and can be controlled via an app.
I might go for one of these in my little Cambridge terrace house, my gas boiler is totally kaput so I need a new boiler, two winters with no heating is enough. Happy to be an early adopter if I can afford it.
Nice to see more options on the market for homes where heat pumps are not practical. Fabulous !
heat pumps are always practical and they are far more efficient...
they are just not always part of the grant scheme, so they tend to be more expensive
@@nc3826 As I understand it the cost of retro-fitting a heat pump (new wider pipes, larger radiators) increases the cost. However with a new build I'm sure the costs/efficiency calculation would be much lower.
@@yorkyone2143 fwiw mini split heat pumps are very cost effective for retro-fitting.... and the heatwave is proving, that AC is needed sometimes.... shame the grant money does not cover it...
@@nc3826 In the UK to install air conditioning for just a couple of day high temp is crazy. It should be strictly limited if not illegal. At the very least there should be temperature setting limits as some warmer countries are only just realising they need to do.
@@malcolm8564 It should be illegal, to refer to efficient, cost effective "heat pumps" as "installing air conditioning".
Very interesting video. The product looks amazing for certain situations, I doubt it was the best solution for this property though. ASHP scop can be as much as 4/1 and these are only 1/1 in fact they might be less than 1/1 because of the losses, Thanks so much for the video.
How to use the air souice heat pump
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I agree, I like the idea of storing energy as heat (vs. electricity) but would want the input energy to be able to be drawn from a wider range of options e.g. a heat pump of some sort and/or solar heat collectors. Good start though.
ASHP... doesn't work very well in winter. GSHP is ok if you have the land.
@@delcat8168 ASHP has a better COP than an electric boiler. One makes heat, one moves heat. Moving heat is cheaper than generating heat
I like the fact that you can basically charge this during the day with excess solar, yes a know you can heat a water tank with a heat pump too but not for home heating....that Im aware of anyway.
How does this balance charging 2 EVs along with its own 40kWh storage. Do I need to get a 3 phase supply to supply enough power?
Yep I imagine it’s too much amperage for the average house to run 2 evs and this and a house battery.
@@steveperrins9482 would depend on your heat loss , mileage driven , energy usage and tariff. I have managed last 2 years, but this winter will be first with 2 EVs. having PV helps as it reduces your grid demand.
Nice simple solution thanks.should be reliable.
More! More! More! keep the information coming please.
Well done Robert & Johan, I can confirm this is a great product, does not fit every project, but great to have in the toolbox of options. Ken YourEnergyYourWay 😉
It's good to hear your opinion as an expert engineer in the field...
375kg is quite a weight. The typical design load for residential floors is only 150kg/m².
I have been enjoyed, so thank you for delivering.
I would love to see a video comparing this to a heat pump. A good product indeed.
Here is something on heat pumps ruclips.net/video/GhAKMAcmJFg/видео.html
Such a video will show that the heat pump will use far less electricity. A heat pump has to be on all day so it cannot avoid using full price electricity. This thing is supposed to work like storage heaters, using off peak electricity at night. When off peak discounts are reduced or phased out, as is very likely when EVs become more prominent, it will be prohibitively expensive to run anything like this.
I have a gas combi boiler so looking forward to a combi equivalent, though would much prefer a wall mount but due to the weight it would need to be floor mounted I guess
Yeah, I guess I have a space that is for a dish washer...might fit - it's currently occupied by a rubbish bin. There there's the space for the current boiler that I can maybe re-purpose for shelving.
@@davidmaxwaterman same here, don't have a dish washer anymore so could go there and pipework is just above too.
A mini split heat pump, is far more efficient...
@@nc3826 and doesn’t weigh almost half a tonne!
@@Brijoolz. since it is basically concrete (with some iron added) that is to be expected.... but to be fair there are phase change versions that are not as heavy....
BTW they should start to offer to loop plastic pipes thru the middle of newly constructed concrete walls in a home... as a cheaper more effective way to store the same heat...
Many heat pumps can do heating and cooling. Cooling will become more of an issue in the future.
How to use the air souice heat pump
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As a Queenslander, who lived two years in UK, I can relate to his wife wanting a very warm house. It was a battle with my husband to keep in warm...
You have a massive market for this. I just had my Victorian mid terrace surveyed for a heat pump and its not possible. What with 1m boundary planning, noise level, the size of the damn thing and solid walls which all Victorian terraces have. Basically a heat pump is not feasible for 50% of UK households. I'll be in touch.
In the 60s we lived in a group of 3 bed homes in Coventry that had a single storage heater supplying hot air to the house via a thermostatically controlled fan. These used cast iron as the storage medium. In time they suffered from severe oxidation of the cast iron and damage to the heating elements due to the movement of the cast iron during expansion and contraction. It would be interesting to know more about the internal design of these Zeb units.
The success of this depends on the energy market suppling deals as it does at present. do you think the market would not change with widespread adoption of this type of storage heater?
It’s just a way of storing off peak electricity as heat, leaving all your other electrical needs on the inflated day time tariff.
@@flowntn1989 Yes, because it's cheaper to build storage for heat than for electricity on a kWh stored basis. Run your dishwasher and clothes drier at night (at least some of the loads), and add a smaller electricity storage to catch more of the load.
What's really interesting is that there's hours when the electricity tariff is negative, e.g. when there's excess solar power. Good times to both charge your EV and store heat.
Yes... as long as there are enough cheap hours in the day without having to spill in to expensive ones.
Not on a cold overcast winter day when you most need heating.
Robert is thrilled with his. Get back to us after a full winter with below a average temperatures.
Excellent product
Looks really interesting! Though I will, like all those others, wait for the combi option. For the sake of balance, it would be good to hear about competitors to Tepeo…
Warmstone, it's bigger and goes outside/in outbuilding have a search for it.
The channel has featured other home thermal storage equipment in other videos. In addition to the aforementioned Warmstone, they also showed the Sunamp heat battery. You can check out their series on home energy on the main channel from around August 2021. Ecobubl Sustainable Home Centre & Training's channel also has more detail about the Sunamp heat battery if you're interested.
This would be incredible if it were a standalone product. I and many other commenters are concerned about the company probably folding in the near future and also maybe failing to produce software/firmware that is legacy bound, should that happen.
How to use the air souice heat pump
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if it supported opentherm you would at least have half a chance of controlling it yourself
All sounds great if you have the Money to do all this, it does look considerably bigger than my gas boiler which is in a small cupboard and is a Combi,the question that wasn’t asked was the cost and what happens during a Power cut which will happen quite regularly when we all go electric everything,I think they have grossly underestimated the demand for electricity when EVERYONE goes electric as they can’t meet demand now when winter conditions are bad.
@@davidellis279 the UK only uses 60% of its capacity. So, no there will not be power cuts. We actually use less now then we ever did. This product would charge over night, when there is loads of spare electricity, which is why the grid sells it cheaper. The cost is roughly £5k, the initial cost is high, (too high in my opinion, but all start ups are) however, no servicing, it'll last longer then any boiler, and could be charged with solar.
Also, no boiler works on the rare occasion of a power cut, the pumps turn off, so the boiler will just shut down.
@@mev202 Your right of course about the boiler pump shutting down when we have power cuts,I have my own generator to compensate for those occasions,I also have Solar Panels which I am going to have a battery back up system installed just in case because I don’t share your optimism whatsoever about the grid coping when we get a severe winter and there are millions of vehicles needing to be charged if and when people are foolish enough to buy these electric vehicles in any great volume, they’ve just approved a New Nuclear Power plant to be built but that probably won’t be on stream for about ten years,if we are so self sufficient in electricity at the moment why do we have to import so much from Europe who are going to need all the electric they can produce next winter because of oil and gas prices over there. These power plants should have been put in place years ago but of course money is the main reason, they’ve put the cart before the horse as usual and it’s going to be us that’s picking up the bill for all their past mistakes,people will be freezing to death this winter because they’ll be frightened to use the gas or electric to keep warm.
Cool idea signed up to your mailing list from last video when can I get a tepo installed in Lincolnshire ? we have solar and water tank so don’t need the combi version.. how much did it cost to run compared with your old system Robert last winter? Thanks
Will radiator zoning such as Tado be able to work with the Zeb using the same controller wiring as the gas boilers use ?
Bit of a bombshell at the end as I was under the impression Tepeo was a replacement for a combi but apparently not. We have a combi and would require replacing that at some point. Also, what is the efficiency ratio on this, how does it compare to a gas boiler?
It’s resistive, you get a CoP of 1x (though probably a little less as you might loose some heat)
They're making a combi version which should be out in the next year i read on their website
It's important everyone must realise all these new boilers require you have a hot water tank combi boilers are dead no house should be built without a hit water tank .
My house is 15 years old it has a 400ltr mega flow tank you need this sort of water storage. In a 4/5 bed home.
@@keithnewton8981 Depends on the occupants. You could just limit shower flows and durations. Could cause arguments with some people I know.
A very interesting new product which may be a more appropriate alternative for me than an air source heat pump.
I have solar panels, a Myenergy Eddi, a 10kW capacity home battery and an EV charger.
During the summer months my gas boiler is switched off as I don't need the heating on.
My solar power is used to:
1. Heat water via the Eddi each day
2. Re-charge my home battery each day
3. Charge my EV when required
Despite the above I am still exporting excess solar to the grid. I realise this will change during the winter months but I'd like to check something. If I've understood the video correctly, I could charge a ZEB from either my excess solar, or from my Economy 7 low rate tariff.
One question I don't think was answered. If the Zeb is fully charged and doesn't need to discharge to heat either water, or the radiators, I presume it simply lies dormant and only comes on when there is either insufficient solar energy to heat the water, or the central heating is turned on, creating a demand. Is this correct?
I was thinking exactly that and not answered as on same boat.
Does it work with Eddi ans hot water tank… and if then needed more hot water, that the Eddi cannot “sort out” as in winter, the the ZEB sorts the rest out?
@@ericvet8b
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It’s going to be far more efficient to heat your hot water tank with the immersion than this “boiler”. There will be losses in heating the thermal mass and then more losses transferring that heat to your hot water cylinder, including the use of a pump.
Good review, nice guy leading the company. It looks very big in terms of floor footprint though.
What analysis did you do to show that this product fitted your needs better than a ground or air source heat pump?
Definitely an excellent tool towards low carbon in situations where a heat pump does not work. There are many flats with very low heat loss that the Zeb is perfect for.
nope, heat pumps work everywhere...
and they can give you life saving AC too...
@@nc3826 Heat pumps don't work in winter when you actually need to heat most.
A heat pump in Winter is basically a ZEB using purely an electric heating element except it doesn't have features to store solar heat for night use or cheap night electricity for the day.
It is also noisy and requires a lot of room to install many don't have.
It needs special radiators or complete renovations for under floor heating.
It has to always run because it slowly heats the space.
This wastes electricity for not having "on-demand" heat and hot water functionality.
Constantly heating even if you don't beed heat for days.
Heat pumps are only useful when you meet all conditions, have large pv solar, a battery system and preferranmbly geothermal. Not air source.
@@zteaxon7787 there's a lot there that is completely incorrect I'm afraid, in fact pretty much everything you just said is lies made up by boiler bashers and trash media. If you actually want to know the answers then there's a great video here busting those myths ruclips.net/video/Co2WvRBpBis/видео.html
@@zteaxon7787 ruclips.net/video/NOUDbx1tX-A/видео.html&lc=Ugx8QOKbMDuc1Ah3PlJ4AaABAg.9di98ghsWL59fWdZbE_9Ln
That system could heat my house for about 72 minutes in winter before have to use electricity straight out of the grid so it would at least double my bills.
It has an output of around 15kW of heat so should be sufficient for most UK homes.
For comparison, my current gas boiler has a max output of 14kW and given its age the actual output is much less.
Of course, it will increase your electricity bill. But it will also reduce your gas bill.
@@foamcow my boiler had a out put of 33k and it just mangers to heat the house to the target 19 degrees in winter and it's 5 years old hence I need 30 plus boiler replacement in 5 to ten years
Hi, I have a couple of questions, firstly we have individual Tado radiator thermostats with our gas combi boiler, do these Tado's continue to work as usual calling/not calling for water to the radiator? Secondly we have an electric immersion water tank supplying the water to taps and our only bath, does the Tepeo boiler add to or replace this immersion? Thanks Alistair
Very well presented. Would it not be better to use night storage radiators and get rid of water pipes and pumps?
Considering that the majority of electric is generated in the uk from CCGT fossil fuelled boilers then its hard to say its emission free.
Let me check ... today at 4pm the UK grid is 15% from gas generation ... things are changing ... in my own area of the UK only 2% of generation is from gas and we are 98% zero carbon.
The point is to mislead you with disingenuous marketing, not to be accurate.
Put my name down to be an early adopter months ago, but since replaced with a hydrogen-compliant combi, & while not 0 emissions, my gas usage has gone down to approx 1/7, but a Tepeo should definitely be an option for the further future. The 375kg & floor mounting are important to point out.
the only thing good about a hydrogen combi, is that it makes the ZEB look efficient in comparison ;)
when do you think you will get lower calorific (by volume) more expensive, leakier hydrogen?
@@waynecartwright7276 I have no idea tbh, but it's a step in the right direction for my property at this time. Bear in mind it will only be a proposed 20% hydrogen/butane mix.
God only knows what sort of horribly inefficient gas boiler if the new boiler only managed to consume 1/7th of the gas that the old boiler did. Basically you are running your new boiler all week for the same gas consumption your old boiler consumed in a day. I am however sceptical.
@@normanboyes4983 I merely have it set so I don't use as much gas i.e I only heat the amount of water I need when I need it :)
A review Tepeo vs Sunamp vs Caldera would be great in order to compare performances.
Y. Please can someone list here all the alternative vendors to the basic Tepeo tec?
Yey storage heaters from 1980s offices, how innovative and convenient
I think it’s great to have a “plug and play” heating system that can be used with the existing pipework and radiators used in convention heating systems but struggle to see how this can provide cost parity with heat pumps when it lacks the same efficiency and coefficient of performance. I guess it’s going to come down to its ability “out of the box” to take advantage of time of use tariffs. This is where I’d like to see some figures comparing the operating costs with an ASHP…
I think for heating systems using the existing radiators and pipework are a poison pill that make it significantly more expensive initially, as well as compromising the system efficiency for the rest of its life. They also stop you using it for air conditioning.
If you have the space, you can install a large insulated buffer tank to store hot water heated by the HP on cheap rate then circulate that round the rads as needed.
@@adrianthoroughgood1191 I mean you can physically do it, but there's an extra expensive heat exchanger and an inevitable loss of efficiency from that.
@@adrianthoroughgood1191 That would further improve the financial benefits of an ASHP I guess - combined benefit of ToU tariff and the 300%+ efficiency of the HP. It's the latter that seems to be the key advantage of the HP with the the system featured in this video being limited to
One issue with ASHP is that they work best during the day, not during the cold off peak at night. In terms of energy use, ASHP wins, but off peak storage May win in terms of overall costs, especially in a well insulated house.
I would probably go down the storage route, and spent the saved capital on insulation and ventilation
So do they offer an outdoor model? I imagine a good amount of customers will be those on oil and most of those boilers then to be outdoors, I realise it's probably held back due to exposing the battery to the temperature.
Outdoor boilers? The oil tanks are often outside and water heaters are often in unheated spaces in warmer climates, but I’ve never heard of an outdoor boiler. Seems like a waste of energy. Normally, the heat losses would just go to heating your home. If outside, you lose it to the environment, not to mention additional losses due to the temperature difference.
Another company Warmstone do one, it's super-insulated quite big and has a lot more capacity.
Is this basically the same as a sunamp but does heating instead of hot water?
Our current combi oil boiler sits against our outside, gable wall. Is this heater only suitable for internal installation?
Good technology but it's too large for most people right now, if it was more compact and could be wall mounted I would seriously consider getting one.
Many homes in the countryside (like us) use oil based heating boilers and these are typically floor based just like the one shown. You don't have to get far from the grid to need oil or LPG as well. So this presents an intersting area of how we can make that next move in [say] 10 years.
How many of us can acually afford solar panels ,wall mounted storage batteries, and now a Tepeo in our homes. Good to see what's out there though. Bet Robert got mates rates for this interview. How long before the cheap night time rate starts to rocket .
Far more than the number of people buying. Everything starts out more expensive. Computers, Anti-lock brakes, traction control, air conditioning… even electricity itself.
What’s unfortunate is that we’ve avoided the low hanging fruit for decades. Insulation and passive design pays for itself several times over. That would have meant you’d need fewer panels, batteries and a smaller hvac system.
You start small and keep spending. expecting everything to stay the same and you need to do nothing is a financial and environmental mistake
Many of us I would have thought based on how many BEVs appearing on the roads. But individual circumstances vary.
Is this available in Canada and will it work all right with outside temps of -35C? Is this connected to radiators?
Can you heat the thermal battery with a heat pump? Or are the temperatures too high?
Looking forward to the combi version
Why?
When Heat Pumps are so much more efficient.
@@nc3826 the why is in the why a combi exists in the first place. Not everyone has the space for separate water tank nor space for heat pump.
NVM I get it now, the why is convenience wins of efficiency....
@@nc3826 not having space isn’t a convenience issue. It’s a space issue.
WADR There are very space efficient heat pump options, such as mini spits, so space can't be the main issue....
It's more about demanding, a simple and cheap, plug and play option....
Even if it ends up being far less efficient and more costly in the long run.... Have a nice day, sir...
I'd be worried that the element used to heat the core runs at a much higher temperature than the one in a conventional electric water heater. Higher operating temperatures usually result in a reduced lifetime. I'm guessing that replacing an element buried deep inside the core could well be a difficult and expensive job.
A good rule of thumb, but in this case the heat is being transferred from the element to a magnetite core rather than to water. Water is corrosive to metals so the element needs a stainless steel sheath. In this type of heater core conceivably the only job of the sheath is to contain the electrically insulating material and be a good conductor of heat, so it can be selected to have a thermal expansion ratio that better matches the other materials it is in contact with. That should reduce lifetime wear a lot even with the much higher temperatures.
Similar to the element in your grill I imagine. Does it not glow red? You can measure the temperature from the colour.
Have you not had to run a new electrical supply to the boiler from your main fuse board?
Thanks Robert, another good vid.…A question.
Why did you choose a ZEB over a borehole and heat pump?
I
Cool. An electric hot water heater. Using this rationale, all electric hot water heaters are "zero emission".
It’s not technically a direct electric water heater as it heats a “thermal core”. The only advantage to this is that you can offset when you heat the core to take advantage of time of use rates or excess solar.
How about an air to air heat pump for space heating and this thing for water heating.
for water heating there would also be Sunamp phase-change options for instantaneous hot water, or a regular immersion charged up overnight.
They address that at 3:20
Or a small electric water if you have low usage, combined with PV and a battery
Storage technology, either heat or electrical does sound very interesting. I do wonder whether a storage technology would work with separate units replacing radiators. and thus there is no pumping of water around the house. Sort of like the old storage heaters but with something a bit more sophisticated than heating up bricks. Were one unit to go down, then the others would still be fine. Likewise for hot water supply. With an electric shower replacing the bath, the only hot water supply needed would be the kitchen and bathroom hot taps. If the water was heated much closer to the taps, then you wouldn't have to run the taps hot, wasting water.
I've been looking at something to replace the need of an Immersion boiler in my Economy 7 home for water. Apart from something like this, there seems to be either a replacement electric on-demand boiler or essentially modified shower modules (like Triton Instaflow units) you can install close to the taps in the kitchen or bathroom. It would be convenient if one Instaflow unit could provide hot water for both shower and bathroom tap, although this may affect shower water temp if the tap was running at the same time
So - it’s a thermal storage box; an updated version of the one in my first house, c1965?
Mine did have ducted air though far more efficient than radiators but of course not fittable as replacements for water systems.
So, not a boiler, a heat storage device.
I could see the day when a company such as this was sufficiently large to become an electric supplier and use these devices to get good deals on tariffs
Mark: - yep, arbitraging the power tarrifs with thermal (cheaper than a 40kWh battery) - if you need the heat.
So on their website they are requesting to sing up with all your contact details before they even show you what are they selling .... looks like a BS or bad promotion
Odd, I'm able to browse the site and even download their literature (install guide, user manual and brochure) and it never bugged me about anything. That said I really hate the "infinite scroll" style websites; a cancer of web design philosophy IMHO...
Dear Mr Liewellyn, is it possible for you to do am update on your zeb boiler. How it is running and how much it costs to run?
I do like off-peak electricity as it keeps down bills really well. That was using storage heaters, which take the electricity's heat energy. But these compressor-based heat pumps are even more efficient as take the heat from outside and transfer it inside. Unfortunately, I rent so have no say over my heating but hopefully, if enough land lords install efficient heating it will encourage other landlords due to computation from other properties.
did you even watch the video? this IS a storage heater, not a heat pump.
This is awesome, but I'm not sure it's realistic for them to call it ideal for small homes. My boilers a third of the size of this and mounted inside a kitchen cupboard. In a 2-3 bed house theres absolutely no chance of fitting this in.
We have a 5-bedroom house with a gas boiler that fits into a small wall cupboard. We COULD fit a ZEB in, but we would lose a large floor cupboard. Are there smaller units for smaller properties?
What happens if the company folds? They've put a chunk of the control of your heating in the cloud and it could become a very expensive brick unless they commit to open sourcing their software in the event they go out of business...
It is basically a very expensive brick with a heat exchanger. Not sure it would happen but an engineer could probably repair it or adapt it to continue to function without the smart features.
Sounds interesting.
No doubt their are limitations in the performance such as: how much hot water would it produce during winter when the heating may have 6-8hours use per day as I’m guessing the heat is stored up would be depleted at some point ? Until it’s built up again.
To heat a 4 bed detached house with near zero outside temperatures you will need over 100kwh per day. Even on off peak electricity it is going to be very expensive to run.
Is this compatible with Roberts smart mixergy thermal store or did that get taken out for this?
Interesting concept, although I don't really get the point in it. Seems to be just a centralised storage heater and some marketing fluff about IoT, machine learning etc. It's not zero emission either, unless the electricity you're powering it from is (in which case any electric heater is zero emission).
Questions that could have been answered:-
Why are centralised electric heating systems better than putting an electric heater everywhere there is a radiator and having an electric immersion heater for water. Is it cheaper? Is it 'more efficient' somehow? I don't really see how it can be if ultimately it's just resistive heating, all the energy you put in ends up as heat.
For someone like Robert that already has battery storage equipment than can be charged off-peak, what advantage does the thermal energy storage have over electric energy storage? How does the efficiency compare? Reliability? Cost? Running a simple electric radiator (i.e. not even a storage heater) from stored off-peak energy sounds a hell of a lot simpler.
It can't be more efficient than air or ground source heating. It's just a centralised storage heater with fancy charging/heating controls.
And it costs?
Looks great and I'm very interested, but I simply can't accommodate a unit of this size. Will the combi boiler coming out next year be of a size that equates to a gas combi, and be wall mountable?
No of course not. It uses a heavy large mass to store the heat. That will not change.
No it will be bigger because it will have a larger heat exchanger.
I have a log burner to heat the house, and a 12KW $1500 electric boiler, works great, i use about 350-400KW per month for all my electricity
If that device stored heat from heat pump, it might be considered as a low emission boiler. But in fact it's an electricity gusher just moving emissions away from the owner of the house to the utility companies. Much fuzz about nothing.
He said based on customers who used 12000 kwh of gas a year. At 25pence / kwh that would be 3000 Pounds a year; 250 Pounds a month! This is a complete joke.
I'll wait for the combi, though I am looking into, making a sand battery system. Same principle.
I'm an MEP engineer, I work on small scale projects in the US (mostly restaurants & fast food chains). Your brochure says it can discharge up to 15 kW of power. That much power may be sufficient to power some small fast-food (often drive-thru type) shops (Need to look at the specs though). Has tepeo considered commercial adoption of the product by small food shops or restaurants?
its not a battery. it only outputs hot water for heating.
Looks a good idea, but practically it's not going to be possible to replace many boilers that are wall mounted, upstairs or in the loft due to the size and weight. This unit also doesn't provide hot water (although they are working on a combi boiler) which excludes a large number of us. Also overnight tariffs for charging the unit don't really exist unless you already have an EV - looks like another product to help the middle classes sadly.
No such thing as middle class anymore. There's the super rich who buy new green tech because they want to "save the planet" and there's the rest of us.
£6000 for a boiler and another £2000 for installation. - SERIOUSLY!!!!!! (might as well stick with gas!)
How does this compare to using on demand electric water, a heat exchange furnace/ AC and a powerwall type home-use battery?
Awesome! This should be in every house. Thank you for this!!
Either you are a fool beyond compare or something heavy recently dropped on your head.
Great, it can use cheaper off peak power.
But it is still terribly inefficient vs Heat Pumps. And calling it a Zero Emission Boiler (ZEB®), when it does not include its own Zero Emission power source, means it is just marketing BS.
So, what is it with Brits and their fear of using far more efficient heat pumps? While the rest of the world has been using, HPs for decades. That can also cool the home, which is needed now.
We have the mostly poorly insulated housing stock in Europe, and people generally fear 'new' things. Equally, the space required for a hot water tank means they are not suitably for a huge chunk of houses. I personally hope attitudes change!
The ZEB does not produce any emissions at source. It is powered from the grid, which does have zero emission power sources. So, the ZEB claim is justified. It can take advantage of when electricity is cheap and green. Having storage capacity available means that the utilisation of renewable electricity can be increased. For example, if enough are installed, they could help prevent renewable sources being switched off when the frequency of the grid is too high due to excessive generation. The excess could be diverted to the ZEBs and other form of storage. Technology like the ZEB has its place.
For me it's the 50,000 - 100000 plus price tag to switch to heat pumps that's the issue. Due to no one offering one that can produce the 65 to 70 degree output (@33kw) need to heat this house. So we would have to remove the current heating system and reto fit a total different heating system in a very old 17 room House.
@UC7A1rDEGUvGQ8nLq-qRkgnw no HVAC we don't have it in most houses in my country it's traditionally not hot enough.
@UC7A1rDEGUvGQ8nLq-qRkgnw don't need to Google need new windows,
There is no such thing as zero emissions it's just where you draw the demarcation, my car is emission free as long as I also exclude the power plant and exhaust.
Thank you
I am hoping to go solar voltaic next summer, to complement my existing solar hot water system. My house is a bungalow reasonably well insulated, of about 1500 sq.ft.
Is this product available in Ireland and if so where will I find the contact details.
Thanks