Amp Simulators Are Inferior.
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Tonight, I make an effort to explain my stance on amp simulators. Let me know yours in the comments.
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Amp sims suit the modern way of living for a lot of people. They're very convenient on a noise and space level and have the added side effect of getting me playing more frequently because its so easily accessible and I can record on the fly. I still have a tube amp and agree I love the sound, but honestly its just been relegated to a cupboard to free up some space in my apartment.
Oh god stfu. We live the same as we always did. I’ve forced myself to stick with a fractal axe fx 3 now for 2 years and I’m realizing I should’ve kept my triple rectifier and just bought a load box and a DI rig for when I need to use headphones or something. I play less and get less enjoyment out of it because it sucks.
As a dad, most of my free time happens after the kids are asleep, so most of my guitar playing is done with amp sims and headphones. It isn't great, it beats not playing at all, but it really makes me appreciate those rare weekends when I can fire up my proper amps and make the house shake.
I have great respect for parents, I could never
Man I would like to be your neighbor so we can go for a couple of nice beers...
@@sixstringtv1 eh, we make look harder than it is. Besides, there are some upsides, my oldest kept her promise and stuck with her guitar lessons and practice schedule so she's earned herself her own Strat so she can stop stealing mine, does a father proud. So I have an excuse to go shopping for a new Strat. Sure, it isn't for me, but if the wife let's me go to the guitar store without supervision I can't be held responsible for what I bring back, she should know better by now.
My wife and daughter have learned to live with it. I did move from 50W tube Marshall to 20W tube Friedman. Wasn't that pretty considerate of me?
@@GearZenChannel you get my vote for father/husband of the year. I bet they still say it’s loud ? I got a DSL20cr and My fiancée says that’s loud and I said no, no not really you should’ve heard my 50 watt jcm800 through my old 4x12 . I see now where I messed up. I should’ve got a Mesa Colosseum and then a 100 watt plexi and finally down to the 20 watters. Then maybe she’d show a little gratitude for my consideration of her hearing lol .
The central flaw in the argumentation about "the end result matters less than the way you get to it" is, that with making music the end result is actually the only thing that matters, in my opinion. When you're a gigging musician, you have to create an experience for your audience. And digital gear makes it pretty easy to create that experience in the same quality over and over again, without having to worry about putting a microphone in the exact right spot, having to carry heavy as s*** amps, etc.
I'll never play a gig again, where what the audience hears me play relies on a mic in front of a cabinet. Ever!
If you're making music only for the end result and don't enjoy composing / performing it, then why even bother? The enjoyment of performing your songs should be just as important as the audience.
@@drownmeinreverb You misunderstood. The end result is the experience that you create for your audience. When I'm on stage, I don't want my sound to depend on the exact position of a microphone, the availability of the exact right cabinet, etc. With digital gear, I can create and polish my sound precisely as I like it, save it and always use this identical sound. One huge thing less to worry about. And less worry means it's easier to put on a great show that I can enjoy together with my audience.
get a Two Notes Captor X. Use an amp - have the same FOH sound every night.
Nope 😉 I have more arguments 😁I'm using in-ear monitoring. So I would not be hearing much from the cabinet on stage anyhow. Plus I don't ever want to carry a heavy-as-**** amp ever in my life again. My MOD Dwarf is the perfect solution for live shows for me (HX Stomp would do the job as well). Modelers sound great, work perfectly with in-ear monitoring, are easy to carry, can do things (almost) no analog amp can do, etc.
For live shows, modelers are objectively superior to analog amps. "Because it feels better" is simply not an applicable argument in this use case.
@@jandalfaudio4097 except it generally sounds worse live. Fair enough - if you generally like not being heard live. Unless you're playing big arenas where there's fill speakers etc. People in the front aren't hearing shit - just drums. I gig full-time and have been down the modeller rabbit hole for years. Fair enough if it works for you but being a baby about having to carry stuff isn't an applicable argument either.
The amps behind you are probably the best reason most people are switching over to amp sims. They’re huge, heavy and loud. Once you’re on stage and mic’d, you’re essentially hearing the AO through the PA and IEMs. So, you’re not really playing to hear the amp anymore. The modelers simply make it easier to port the exact setup from place to place.
Sacrificing tone and having to deal with latency issues vs a good ass amp that happens to take of space.
Yeah I choose the Amplifier
@@GawnfallThe top modelers don't have any latency anymore. I'd bet you couldn't pick them out in a double blind test either
@gdawgs101 doesn't sound the same to me man based off of what I have. It's not worth it
@@GawnfallDeeply ironic to say it's not worth it when you're the one spending significantly more
I can tell you that even with pitch shift to Drop G# on my QC, it has zero latency issues, live or at home. I'd only actually physically tune a guitar down that low for recording purposes these days. I get Amps have a feel to them, but EQ a good modeller correctly and you won't be able to tell the difference live or on record
I don't think you understand that no one is debating this. It's just that not everyone has the means, space, or capacity to push a full head through a 4x12. There's also the fact that these are meant to sonorise stadiums. Your point is a bit like saying "the subway is inferior, you can't emulate the feeling of racing in your car" The answer is threefold : money, urban life and purpose.
You hit the nail on the head perfectly with the glass analogy. I like both analog and digital for the reasons you mentioned in this video. I like being able to break my glass panes in as many ways as possible and both rocks and buttons can coexist in my glass breaking menagerie
Having both at your disposal is always good. Even a big hater like myself has to resort to sims sometimes, so I guess I'm glad they exist nevertheless
Yes, using a physical amp feels completely different than using a digital amp. A physical amp's experience is very kinetic very immediate yes you're correct. I understand this is important for many guitarists, but unlike other guitarists I am 50% a guitarist & 50% a computer nerd. I love amp sims, & their ridiculous versatility.
#nerdpower
As a musician, I couldnt give less shit about that "pushing air" thing :)
I prefer using modelers or VST plugins live, with inear monitors :)
Im such a sucker for modern technology. The less gear brought to a gig, the better.
A laptop and interface can run 2 guitarists and 1 bass player all in one. Hehe :)
I dont shit on tube amps. They can be fun. But, I have been there, done that, and I dont miss it :)
Yeah, my entire rig is in a 6 space rack (with a foot controller and a couple of expression pedals for my Axe FX) and my entire band uses electronics (electronic drum kit and amp modelers) so we're 100% silent on stage so you only get the sound from the PA. And we can play anywhere we want with *our* sound, rather than have to use different amps for the venue while fighting over the drums. I'm out there to put on a show and keep the dance floor hoppin', not put on a guitar clinic (though I get a few songs a night to really let loose).
I honestly thought this was going to be another "guitar player refuses to acknowledge technology progressing" but you actually kinda have a good point.
I'm glad you think so
@@sixstringtv1 now do a parody video of zoomer guitarists and why amp sims are superior XDDDD
Not one good point. So many great bands are using an AXE fX or Quad Cortext. Just cause this dude can't dial in a good sound from a sim doesn't mean you should write them off.
@@Clinthopanonymous I'm not writings them off. It's just that I'll take sixstrings side of using tube amps over using amp sims
@@Clinthopanonymous its because this bands play huge venues and use in ear monitors and need reliable top notch effects. also note this bands are using multiple devices to make it sound like ever wandered why they use 4 kempers at once for one guitar player ?
I think amp sims shine the most in home recording situations. It’s pretty much impossible to tell the difference between sims and the real deal by ear, and a lot of people just can’t turn up an amp loud enough at home to sound good. I totally agree with you on the feel thing. Nothing beats a tube amp!
Sadly most amps help people who sound bad sound like louder bad.
@@rahulmenon4357 ….hey man, don’t talk about me like that…hahahaha😮
Analogue amps are satisfying to use because due to adding touch sensitivity to your guitar they’re effectively extensions of your instrument. My digital amp doesn’t care how hard I hit the strings, I get the same tone… my valve amp’s tone changes quite a lot based on pressure changes through my fingers.
Yesss
Actually yeah, I noticed like with the neural slo sim I use to record when I cba to use my amp, it’s far less sensitive to stuff like tone knob settings too
As an 103 years plus 3 days old, this video makes me proud of the younger generation
As a recent owner of a tube amp, i agree. There's no way to describe it other than trying it
If you know you know
You're absolutely right. I'd played high gain tube amps as a teenager but never owned one. Now that I own my own tube amps I can't stand playing anything else. You really don't need that much gain either (I had no idea what I was doing back then)
Had a Fender Deluxe VM tube amp. It was cool, but now I play a Peavey Bandit and that shakes the room too, so I don't think there's much of a difference.
I started on a tube amp and now I'm more into analog solid state amps like the Sunn Beta Lead.
I just bought a Ampeg SVT- CLASSIC HEAD- AMP, plus just drive home with a 8x10 Ampeg cab! Screw cheaters that use Sims
100% agree. I use both, I use sims, modeled sounds… I’ve played it all… a different feeling comes as result of a real amp.
its good that youre confident and vocal about your own opinions. stay that way. and yeah its true. often times i would use a stereo widening plugin and crank up my headphones so loud i would give myself headaches, just to get as close as possible to the real thing, because i cant afford a real ENGL fireball amp and a space to play it in without the police getting called up
Oh ouch 😭
I love Neural DSP, insanely convenient and the price to performance ratio is NUTS. But, a great tube amp will prevail depending on the actual tone you want. I personally think amps will become more of a boutique only thing in maybe 10 - 15 years, because the rate that emulation software is improving is getting better every day
I think for home players amps are already a boutique thing 🙉 I've had an amp since I was 18, but I don't even remember the last time I've used it 🙈 But for me the reason was originally other: I was just too lazy to plug it in/turn it on, so I just played unplugged 😀 I've written a lot of songs that way. But now that there are amp sims, there's even less of a reason to use an actual amp at home.
@@MaximusAdonicus same, 99.9% of my playing is unplugged lol. The tone is in my mind!
Agreed I think that a lot of big amp makers are going to stop and die out especially with the new Marshall thing and others kind of focusing on other things then amps. I think that tube amps will. Become the boutique hardwired smaller builders who stick around
Amp sims and even better modelers has gotten crazy good but the feel of how it responds is definitely different but it’s obvious that is the way it going
Also, I gigged with a Micro Dark for about 2 years and got some incredible tones out of it. I always tell guitarists not to sleep on that amp. It’s a great backup and can work as your main if it’s a small enough gig.
I definitely gotta get a micro terror too sometime. Both sick
I’ve been gigging with the micro stomp into a vox 2x12, loud as shit and pretty sweet
I love amp sims, in fact I'd use them to play live. The neural DSP amps are great, I think it's just tech advancing, in the old days you had big cabs and tube amps, now it's being abstracted through the medium of digital and very soon they'll be identical in sound. I also like the idea of tones departing from the standard creamy, organic valve state sound guitarists fethisize. For me harsh, weird tones are more compelling. I mean by Dimebag used solid state amps and a lot of guitarists say his tone was bad but I think it was amazing because it was different; it didn't conform to the Gibson LP through Marshall stack that ppl expect. By the same token a cyberpunk, fucked up amp sim tone could be really interesting. I think deliberately messing up your guitar tone and going against the herd makes for more distinctive and engaging music, the trick is to make that screwed up tone functional. But I don't believe in "old is better" or even the way of getting there. The end result is all that matters for me and a bricolage of tech can be used to achieve it.
Most amp sims are very much identical to their counterparts, it's easy to simulate a circuit overall. Big thing with amps is the ambient which can be dialed in a Quad Cortex but people just forgot that it's possible.
@@RyoCanCan True, when I was recording in studio the engineer used a Kemper profile mixed in with a real amp, it was impossible to tell the difference and sounded good, better in fact than using two real amps, so why not use it?
i can understand what you're saying, and i respect it. I've played live with both a real amp and a helix, convenience sake I'd take the helix. the feeling isn't 100% there but if im playing to a crowd 9 times out of 10 im gonna feel great if the crowd feels great. but to have a little box that weighs nothing compared to a full stack it just makes my life a hell of a lot easier especially when i have to get my shit off stage in a timely manner
im guessing you don't gig much? or tried getting your 4x12 cabinet and valve heads into the hold of a plane? or on a cruise liner? sometimes only an amp simulator will do when transporting, setting up and packing down kit is an issue
I agree whole-heartedly. I love sims, but there's nothing like playing through a real amp. Not just feeling, like you mentioned, but the sound in the room of an amp is something thats never been matched in a sim. All sims are based around a mic'd up cab, which even a mic'd real amp isn't the same as "in the room".
There is something to be said about big amps and big cabs. The smell of the wiring when the amp and tubes get up to temp., and the slight breeze from the speakers if you're standing in front of them.
Beautifully phrased. Brought a tear to my eye
You do realize you can plug a helix etc. in front of a wall of Marshalls or whatever you prefer.
A lot of people use modelers in front of their tube amps on a clean setting. Basically using your tube amp as a power amp and all of your tones and effects coming from your modeler.
My setup is Helix, power amps, 4- 412 cabinets. One stack on each side of the drums. Direct out of the helix to FOH. Cab Sim only to FOH.
This set up is very effective and very real very easy to do and sounds a lot better.
Again all of the pros are using amp modelers into power amps solid State power amps on top of it. Tubes are basically a thing of the past in a professional setting they're way too inconsistent and unreliable for one. Not to mention that they're big heavy and take a lot of maintenance and they're not consistent on their sound day to day. Not to mention all the other benefits of having a helix or a Kemper or the QC. One that comes to mind is the midi capability and being able to have your patches set up on a timeline. This way the midi will change your patches accordingly to how you have them set up per song.
That's why you see bands like Megadeth and Metallica without paddle boards on stage it's all being switched for them by many time-based or somebody doing it physically. But they're all using amp modelers and solid State power amps. Some don't even have cabinets on stage they just use in-ear monitoring but I digress.
@@maxammo6282 You folks who seem triggered are characterizing all tube amps as big heavy monstrosities when what we really see is a trend towards smaller tube amps that are big on tone, something big enough to function as a monitor while not being so loud that they throw off the FoH mix...unfortunately, those sort of amps that are of any real quality have jumped in price, and the better types of modellers out there can offer reasonable facsimiles of many iconic amps in one convenient package
@@jasondorsey7110 yeah well at the end of the day you got your brand new awesome tiny new tube amp . You're still going to have to service the thing. Meaning you're going to have to buy tubes for it. It also falls into the category of not sounding consistent from day to day even though it's still boutique and small and still sounds different from day to day. For me I am not carrying anything less my power amp still bulky and heavy in a big ass fly case I still have cabinets. So for you to be saying that I'm triggered.. you don't have a clue I'm willing to bet that I've been playing longer than you've been alive. And I'm also willing to bet you have never loaded in or loaded out 10 cabinets and six heads. Which is a minimal back line for for most bigger metal bands. Yeah something tells me you're a noob and you're just talking out your ass I could be wrong but I'm usually right. And it's funny nobody has addressed the reason why all the pros are using modelers. There's a reason for it. Maybe when you grow up you'll figure it out.
You should check out some rig reviews of the pros. But I digress good luck to you ✌️
I agree with the feel.
I'm also a guitar player, but also a producer, composer and audio engineer.
But i don't care what others do, even on stage. It's a show and you wanna watch that, not glance on fancy gear.
I personally have a more unconventional hybrid setup, using amp sims at the end but 80% of the tones are from analog circuits. I figured everyone can sound good, there are even free amp sims that can be used on full productions. It goes back to sounding unique. That's where it's at rn. And that's easiest done with analoge/physical gear.
All this guy did was prove himself wrong lol
This damn kid is my new favorite Guitartuber
Never quit this man. You’re fucking rad!
Instructions unclear I am now breaking glass instead of playing guitar now
Ah crap
I don't subscribe to ANY "MUSIC GUY" CHANNEL, but you're Chris Barnes video was so good I actually sat through it and loved it, and that caused me to scroll through your shows where I found this. Thank you for good shows that aren't yet over edited to death.
This rhetoric is just gatekeeping based on nebulous vibes.
I say this as someone who has played on classic and rare vintage tube amps and free ampsims, who uses classic analog synths and free softsynths: All hardware purists who go on some tirade about how superior the intimacy and "feel" of hardware is are sitting in front of thousands of dollars worth of gear most people couldn't imagine affording after rent and groceries. They also usually don't produce anything of substance (instead, churning out masturbatory content about how much better the "real deal" is). If software is good enough for Brian fucking Eno, it's good enough for you.
Glad you mentioned the Orange Micro Dark, which was my first amp. Sounds great irl, but sits awkwardly in most mixes and sticks out like a sore thumb. Amp-sims are often indisitinguishable from their tube counterparts in a mix. Learn to gainstage. "I'm a musician not a producer" bros say this shit as if that doesn't remove all their authority on the subject
I'm using an amp sim so I can sit plugged up to the computer to learn and practice what I learn at my desk.
I’ve been using the quad cortex for about 5 months now and man I love it. You do miss out on the feel of an analog set, but as someone who plays lots of different music having the infinite tonal combinations is just so nice. Also as a touring musician I can say that I don’t miss lugging around my heavy ass amps and cabs haha 😂 but to each their own!
I don't know if I entirely agree with you.
In practical terms the number of situations where a valve amp can be run through a 4x12" cab at volume is vanishingly small for the average player.
I have the Mooer P1, which uses the same tech as in those guitars you mentioned and, outside of some of the effects being a bit weak and some of the models being a bit off, when you get a sound you like it sounds excellent and I would seriously consider it giggable, especially if you supplement it with additional hardware to make up for those deficiencies.
I've played through both valve amps and digital and I'd honestly feel more secure knowing that I was being DI'd as opposed to relying on the sound guy at the venue to capture the amp and get a good mix whilst dealing with the stage volume. It's a really special skill set that few smaller venues have available to them.
You're also missing out on the two most significant benefits and caveats for digital and both of those are software related. No matter how good a digital amp is it will reach a point where the software is no longer supported and then you'll be limited by what the community who own the device or plugin are willing to invest their time and experience in coding into so that it remains useable. This can lead to your device becoming much better by way of adding versatility and new features but equally you can end up with something that's completely incompatible with current operating systems that loses many important features.
Even if a plugin still works you could have a serious system issue and need to reinstall your operating system, meaning that you have to worry about whether your license is still valid or if it's even hosted on the manufacturer's server any more. Sure, there are cracks, but unless you're using something open source you could end up going to a dodgy site and screwing everything up again with malware.
Analogue gear doesn't have this concern outside of components needing replacement occasionally.
Also I don't think that the example you showed of you using the plugin was particularly good for representation purposes because the whole backing track was clipping the input of the device you used to record.
Not really a refutation of your assessment, just some additional thoughts on the matter.
Every one has their own opinion on tone. i sold all my amps and cabs in favor of the Helix. I went down the IR route, I got the FRFR cabs. I ended up getting a power amp and cab using a v30 loaded 2x12. Personally, I absolutely love the Helix. The thing to remember is the sound. "Real" amps, analog, sound like they are in the room. That's what we as guitar players like. It's like haptic feedback. Modelers and Sims are the sound of your amp in another room while you're listening back from the control room. It's going to feel completely different then sitting in front of a cranked amp in the room. That is the nature of the beast. I can play guitar either way and I have fun doing so. Feel isn't a thing for me. It's all the same, to me. I played "real" amps for 18 years. I've played the helix as my amp for 3 years. My playing sounds the same as it did on the "real" amps. I'm sure using a Class A/B power amp and V30 loaded cab has a lot to do with it, I'm just as happy with my studio monitors or FRFR Cab. It's all subjective. Also, Carrying the Helix around is a lot easier on my back then trying to lug around that Peavey XXX and 4x12 cab.
I have a concrete bunker under my garage, turned into a studio, my kids upstairs and across to the other end of the house can't here the band jamming, we still use a mix of both.
The best blend of both words are the Victory V4 Pedal Amps. Analog amps with a tube preamp and can plug into any cab, but has an XLR out with built in Two Notes cab sims.
Totally agree. My biggest gripe as a giving musician is seeing "silent" stages which is where all you can hear are drums if you're in the front row. No matter how good you sound through your in ears - unless you're playing a giant stadium, the people at the front aren't hearing shit. Not only is that awful but - tone through the PA is and always will be completely shit. There's no vibe at all on stage. I saw Extreme recently and he runs a Marshall into like 3 cabs and it was the most glorious thing ever. !
I'm glad this wasn't a "you have to spend money on gear to get good sound" approach. I love my tube combo and I have some head/cab wishlist items I'll get around to grabbing some day. Nothing beats that feeling of standing in front of an analog system and feeling the vibrations of the waves you're created with your amp cranked to 11, but tbh the amp sims are the best thing that has happened to my playing since the day I bought my first guitar. I've been in shared living situations that just aren't conducive to loud playing. I've got a very basic home studio setup in my bedroom and it gives me inspiration to play daily. I haven't plugged my amp in since I moved in, and I feel a little bad about it, but I feel great about my own practice. I'm sure there'll be a time again where I'll have space to get loud, but for now amp sims are towin that line.
"I ask that you please hear me out" *lights torch, grabs pitchfork* NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO lolol
I think that making the distinction between mix and just playing is a really good point, a lot of people talk about feeling in music yet this area seems to be verry neglected when it comes the most basic part of music, it beeing just playing.
At the end of the day amps vs ampsims are both tools that go from the touring musician to the bedroom guitarist, fighting over witch one is better is kinda off a waste of time, use the one you like the most, or feels the best and have fun
I think that’s part of the problem with the digital units… I can plug into my small 5w valve amp and within seconds have the sound I want. Before I retired I did IT for a living so the last thing I want to do is spend hours configuring a piece of digital tech to mould the sound of my analogue instrument. I didn’t pickup up a guitar to be a sound tech, I picked up a guitar to play a guitar.
Living in an apartment there is no time I'd be able to play a valve head cranked through a 4x12 or even a 1x12. Analog amps are the original so obviously will be better in general, the sims are trying to replicate the amp, not the other way around. However, for the vast majority of people I'd say an amp sim makes more sense. Everyone's use case is different and I get there's probably a bit of exaggeration in the title but amp sims are not 'Inferior' they're just filling a different purpose.
If you want to have the "amp in the room" feel when using amp sims you can route the amp sim to an attenuator or external power section which goes to whatever cabinet you want to use. Alternative you could use the send and return loop of an existing amp head to feed the amp sim to a cab which will use the power section of the amp. It does feel like a real amp when played through a guitar cabinet, at least in terms of feel and responsiveness. If you use a good quality amp sim or profiler then you most certainly won't be able to tell any difference in a blind test. I've conducted this test myself using different amp sims, real amp and a harley Benton 2x12 cabinet.
EDIT: Unless there's real blessed ones out there who are gifted enough to be able to feel what some of us can't. If that's the case I envy you guys a lot.
Amps have a way better sound and feel than a simulator, however, you will NEVER be able to get a real amp+cab w/ pedals that has a shoebox size footprint and also has the ability to sound very similar to 1000’s of actual amps and pedals for a fraction of the price. If someone hates how sims sound, it’s a totally fair complaint. They sound soulless. But for those people who prefer small setups and cost conscious buys, amp sims are the way to go.
"What emulates the sensation of heroin?"
Fentanyl. Amps aren't the only thing that's being modelled.
I have one criticism. You're not picking Sails of Charon correctly. Check out Ben Eller's video breaking down what Uli is doing. It's actually really interesting because of how unusual it is!
The in the room amp sound is pretty awesome. Nothing like the overtone from holding out a palm mute shaking the air. Although doesn’t that make this video more about cab simulators being inferior since hooking a real amp up to a load box and running into a digital IR have that same effect on the experience of playing loud.
I just cant imagine dialing in a bad ass thrash metal tone infront of my laptop and listening to it through my monitors.
I am a guitar player and i love playing through amp sims
My first amp, I bought in maybe 96, it was a 1968 Epiphone, I can only remember what it looked like on its wheeled case now, I've long long lost it. I worked for weeks at a bi weekly paying job while going to school to buy it. Got an original first model DOD death metal pedal later and ran it through it.
Man that was one sweet amp. Beautiful tube based. The only one I ever had.
All the amps I like are huge, but I have tinnitus. Between the UA Audio stuff or even a Helix versus an amp that wont aggravate my tinnitus (or my neighbors), I will choose amp sims. It took me a while to get used to them coming from 100 watters but I dont regret selling most of my tube amps.
Are inferior to what? if you are a gigging/touring musician they are handy, cheap and can go in a bag. Analog will never die, studios will have amps forever, they're like vinyls. Its just that digital makes life easier as a musician.
I use all types of amps - I have an Orange Rockerverb MK III 100 Watt valve head with a 4X12 cab, several Marshall amps, a Fender combo, about 50 FX pedals and a host of headphone amps, busking tools and all kinds of other gadgets. I also have a Line 6 Helix. Depending on what I am hired to do, all these tools sound great with none of them being any better or worse than the others. To say 'amp sims suck' is a bit narrow minded and suggests the player has not spent time researching them. To only use Marshall stacks would mean the guitarist is restricted exclusively to playing loud heavy metal and the idea that amp mods are dreadful is a bit discourteous to the thousands of musicians who use them for something other than Megadeth riffs. If I have to play jazz, pop, surf rock and metal in the same set, a Marshall stack is not the most versatile amp for the job. Just because a piece of kit doesn't apply to you, does not mean thousands of others have not found a wealth of great uses for it! Objectivity can be a useful tool when evaluating music gear.
Been using sims for ages because I don’t really have space for a real amp, but since buying one I’ve been eq’ing the crap out of my amp sim so it’s not all icepick-y. I think real amps really bring out the fact that guitar is a midrange instrument, which definitely helps me feel more in tune with it. Also the fact that there’s no latency helps
I feel you. I got an ENGL Fireball 100 recently and I can no longer find any way to EQ my Archetype Nolly or Fortin Nameless patches to sound as good as the real thing. As you said, the fullness of the mids is so much more perceivable in the room and even when tracking.
Not to say, the direct predictability of sound is fantastic. It’s like your brain and fingers are wired directly to the amp.
the thing with tube amps is that theyre 100% analog and the sims are 100% digital, which is why theres such a great divide. the big difference between analog and digital is that analog is completely inconsistent. the inconsistency feels human, which is what i assume is the reason we prefer the tube experience. every component of the amp is in constant change whenever we play and i guess that makes it feel more responsive to our playing. and then why we put solid states in the middle is that they take the whole path of a tube amp and convert each component to a chip, meaning it is both analog and digital
You can emulate everything. You just need the right speakers to get the same air moving and you wont hear a difference at all.
What did I just say 💀
It's not about "hearing" the difference
If you play EMG's through half a dozen pedals, with guitar on 10 might as well go digital, but if you use passive PUPs straight into a valve amp and use the volume controls use real amps. The dynamics can't be beat.
Javier Reyes analogy "you could have the best racing sim setup ever and you're still going to prefer driving the real car on the real track given the choice"
I love my tube amp. It sounds better than anything that I have ever heard. When I go to gig though, it is often much more practical to leave it at home and just bring my Fractal FM3. It does all the things I need it to do, it is light weight and allows me to carry my whole rig (gutar and amp sim/pedal board) in one trip and it takes only two cables plus a power supply to use. When you share 15 minutes of setup/ teardown time with the band before you, the less moving parts the better.
There's 2 kinds of amp sim users.
People who wanna justify spending 3K on one.
People who wanna justify not spending money on a real amp.
Having said that, I ditched amps. I DI everything, but I don't use sims. I use gain staging on my pedalboard. It's more convenient, less hiss, and I don't have to lug around amps.
Amp sims are great. They have helped to push more music into the world than ever due to the ease of use, they're overall more reliable than their tube variants when gigging and amazingly portable. Sure, they might not be ''as fun'' as their real tubey variants, but I have more fun fiddling with an AxeFX than a simple amp.
A lot of this comes down to really ''louder is better'' mentality, you're hearing a live amp that's most likely loud and most ampsims are headphone stuff. But hey, people can have their opinions.
I currently own a Boss Katana mk2 100. For apartment playing its good, ive even gigged with it a few times. But if i lived in a house i would immediately swap it for a tube amp no questions asked.
I've been using amp sims for quite some time now and never really had a care to have an amp until recently I've bought a Morgan sw50 to build my ideal pedal platform rig. I absolutely love it and I'm getting all the tones I love from jazz and blues all the way to metal just through pedals and I'm always so happy to sit down and play it. That being said it's still nice to sit down and work an idea out in my DAW or just practice through headphones when volume needs to be kept to a minimum but there is definitely an added joy factor to sitting in front of a real amp
The amp sims definitely cost me ALOT less than starting on this rig tho but hey it's worth it 😂
I’ve gotta say, when my old Marshall tube I’ve had for decades finally needed to be put down I lamented that I’m not in a place financially to replace it with another tube amp.
Then I got a boss katana 100 mkii, just to hold me over while I research you find something better, and I’m never buying a tube amp again. At least not unless I’m making serious money from music, enough that I can throw some away on something that’s functionally useless but still does give me an erection.
I really couldn’t believe how much digital modeling has improved since the last time I checked in, it’s really something amazing and there’s so much innovation that even the few problems that remain are being ironed out on a seemingly monthly basis.
As a strictly max-gain player I really like the amp sim that I use (Neural DSP Granophyre). My only complaint is the built in IR's. Though any chance I get to fire up my tube amp is always much more fun and satisfying. For me the squeals just aren't the same on the sims. I live in an apartment, and it's hard to run a 100W head and 4x12 cab even with an attenuator.
It really depends on the context, if you are going to record an album or you have a perfectly isolated house or studio it is infinitely better to use a real amplifier, on the other hand if you are going to play in a gig it is much more comfortable to use a digital pedalboard, in my band we are five guys that we can't afford to have at least 3 cars that can fit two heads, two 4x12 cabinets, the bass stack, the drums, instruments and ourselves, if you want to get a minimum profit from the gig it's not worth it, oil is not really cheap😬 , with the pedalboards, you plug your jack and an xlr into the sounding board and thats it, with all the presets and configurations and with the minimum space required and with a more than decent sound, and in the case of being another band playing with you is so much quicker to collect everything and let the other band set up, the biggest problem that I see with this type of pedalboard is the IRs that are integrated, sound like shit, but if you get some decent IRs, there are hundreds for free on the internet, you get a very good sound, in my case I have a hottone ampero that cost me 300 euros I put some IRs that I found and it sounds incredible for the price, either to play at home or for live sound, the good sound of the amplifier is almost negligible due to the mix and the high volume, but well, everyone has their situation and their tastes of course buen video bro saludos desde Murcia
My sound can not be done without an amp. Nobody can do controlled feedback through a simulator. I have to feel it in my back and legs to know which way to turn.
I agree with the feel part to an extent. Tubes do have an almost tactile response in a room however no one is going to know the difference in the studio or a live situation. The analogies were great and accurate but I feel like if you know your own tone, you can create it and recreate in on anything regardless of the methods. I have a JCM 2000 just like yours and it's my dream amp and I love it and will never get rid of it but for me for reliability and consistency sake, I'll bring my amp sims out and sometimes even an amp in a box pedal into and IR loader and no one will know and I'm grateful for than because I'd die if anything happened to my DSL.
I don't need a 4x12 to practice in my house by myself but it don't need an amp sim for a live gig. They both have their use and their fun.
Get a Two Notes Torpedo Captor X for your Marshall amp heads! Great for silent (attenuator built in) or even quiet playing with headphones. Let those tubes roar! Cheers
i spent way too much money to get an ENGL Savage and a custom 4x12 with heritage Greenbacks. but goddamn nobody can emulate my sound. and it sounds glorious! and i also agree that nothing feels better than playing through it. it even keeps me playing for way longer. i’d probably have quit guitar if i was just playing through plugins
Acquiring a new piece of gear and incorporating it into my setup is one of the simple joys in life, like an adult getting to play with toys, and it's inspired many riffs and practice sessions that went well beyond the time I usually allot for practice, if I had only a few options I'd probably get bored, even if those few options are loaded with features
I completely agree. Feel is everything. I also use Positive Grid Bias software, with a bunch of really good IR aims that help immensely with making them sound far better.
But you can’t emulate the feel of manipulating real electrons with a guitar. I played a Marshall Valvestate at a school the other week and nearly cried.
Also, viva la Micro Dark 🤘
Great to hear that people are finally appreciating valvestates, they were underrated for years even though so many players, even professional recording artists used them
@@jasondorsey7110 absolutely! They were ignored for so long, but they’re still great amps!
Amps are king! Even tho I own a HELIX rack, I use it more to create artist presets. I had to learn a lot to really dail in some great tones.
“Amp sims suck. I mean I can’t tell the difference but they suck. And here’s a bunch of bad metaphors and non-reasons why.” Ok lol.
What? 💀
Try lifting your JCM, putting it in your car, driving it to a random bar and setting it up, playing a whole 4 hour night on stage and then packing it up and taking it home 4 nights a week all by yourself and then decide what feels like shit.
Man I'm still over here using exclusively solid state, so moving up to tubes let alone digital just ain't happening lmao. I pirated thu and I liked the feature of being able to modify the parts of amps to make solid state amps sound like they're using tubes and vice versa, which then made me realize how desperately I need a MOSFET engl fireball 100, oh man do I love that sweet smooth warmth of a nice solid state amp. I have a 1969 ampeg sst solid state preamp and that thing is my baby, now all I need is one of those tube work mosfet power amps and I'm perfect. Plus, accidentally turning your amp on without being plugged into speakers won't blow it up, so that's always fun
Solid state is cool too
I think that they are good enough now, and are the best option for many people, but I just really don't want to touch a computer when playing guitar
Being surrounded by all kinds of amps growing up, I just don't agree. There's a reason so many are switching their oversized gear for modelling and sims because... they're good. Lmao. The only people who can tell a difference are the ones spending too much time doing things other than playing.
Basically, having a real amp adds to your own personal satisfaction. No plugin can simulate the real sound coming from the speakers of an amp (their purpose is to model a MIC'ED amplifier). But microphoned amps is what we hear on records and large live shows. So I get when people choose the digital stuff - the sound is ALMOST THE SAME and they are more stable, smaller and cheaper. The quality is the same. But I agree it is important to have an amp to play for fun at your home, yes... too bad they're so expensive.
The glass smashing comparison was actually pretty good. I only use ampsims due to a thousand reasons, but I do miss that feeling of being in a room with an amp.
Good metaphor right
I usually use another one:
My main hobby is motorracing, mainly motorcycles and karting. So for me playing amp sims feels like sim racing. Sure, you have great sims! I even have the sim steering wheel and pedals with force feedback and everything. But the experience of driving/riding the real thing is totally different even though the basic technique is the same
as a conflict of feel vs sound, nothing beats a cranked tube amp…but when you need a good tone at low volumes, that’s where the modelers come in…I agree with you…but I’m glad they both exist 😎
The amps I play on stage will always be tube (valve)-driven. But I have to admit that the Fender Champion is actually not bad. Have you had a chance to try one?
I have, not that bad tbh
Amp sims are absolutely incredible. Amazing technology. Marshall stacks in mom's basement is stupid as shit.
Not my fault if you live in your mom's basement is it
@@sixstringtv1 brilliant.
i kinda think its more a personal preference thing. if what your after is playing through an amp and a quad, then you are correct its not the same, but if you are shooting for a specific tone, and dont care so much about how you get it, modelers is the way to go. with beefy enough studio monitors the analogy of shattered glass becomes more of choosing between a rock and a similar sized brick.
I like the glass shattering analogy.
Thank you 😌
I agree. I tried to gig with modelling gear once and it sucked. I was used to my tube amps coming alive when I played at gig volume and that just didn't happen with the digital stuff. I'll stick with my Marshall.
This was an extremely long-winded way of saying "I don't feel like liking them"
I like your broken glass analogy works very well. I never saw the "people can't tell the difference" argument as the wrong way of looking at it because you can tell when you played it. I used a Valeton amp modelling fx unit the GP-200. I have the same micro dark you do and the cab for it but with my living situation I mainly play unplugged as I have old neighbours so when I do plug in it's just the FX unit with cab sim and headphone out or Guitar Rig 6 on the PC for recording.
I've had bigger amps n felt the breeze but there just no way I could play them at a volume that feels good anyway, so i just go for the convince of digital fakes, My guitars give me a lot of feedback and feel amazing to play so I'm happy!
i love taking just my guitar, laptop, focusrite solo and midi pedal (it all fits in one gig bag) to the gig and having everyone tell me my tone smokes 😂
while i watch everyone on stage with refrigerator bass cabs struggle to sound half as good 🤣
yes exactly we are no music producers nobody talks about the feeling when testing gear like is it nice to play latency etc hownit responds u get it. bluguitar amp1 iridium at least feels like an amp if one has to compromise on weight.
I understand where you're coming from, but I'd have to disagree. I own way too many amps and I've played live and in studios since the 90's. Hearing my Marshall 70's Super Lead on 10 is a wonderful experience, but I will never be able to get that tone at home unless I want my neighbours to call the police. Besides, in 90% of the scenarios in which I use my amps with a bit of volume, I have an SM57 in front of them.
Now I do think playing through a loud amp with a 4x12 is a great feeling, but it's never ever the way my amp sounds to anyone but me unless I'm at rehearsal or dialing in a sound in the live room in the studio with the engineer or producer there. I'd much rather hear what everyone else is hearing, because that is how you get a good guitar sound. Your amp will never sound like what you're hearing when you're standing in front of it and have it cranked. It will sound like what the SM57 is picking up. And since live playing and studio stuff is what I have my amps for, I want to hear what it sounds like with a mic in front of it.
I've recently bought a Quad Cortex for smaller shows and stuff and it sounds just like what my amps sound like when I record them or through a PA. It's so close that no-one will be able to hear the difference and since almost everyone uses in-ears live nowadays, my amps are more of a burden than anything else. So when I play at home I'd much rather practice with the sound that the audience is going to hear than my Marshall through a 4x12 on 10, because I will never use it that way unless I'm in a small club, but then I'd rather use a smaller amp anyway. And my amps don't sound good if they're not loud, but the Quad Cortex does.
It's all personal preference. There's a ton of guitarists out there who love 5150s, but think Mesa Rectifier's suck. One thing I will say, is you're not going to get the full potential of a Neural DSP Quad Cortex by just trying it out. Most amp modeling units take quite a bit of tweaking to get it where you want it. It's much easier now than it was 10 years ago, but once you get it where you want it, there is hardly a noticeable difference. Especially if you are playing through an frfr speaker. My biggest gripe with modeling units was how it was nearly impossible to get feedback, but with an frfr speaker, that kind of solves that problem.
I don't know if this will help you but i also have a Micro Dark and i plug the FX send into my interface and a dummy cable into the headphones output and then i run it through an IR loader and honestly for me its better than any digital amp sim I've tried it just feels better to play even though it still isnt going through a real cab. On top of that it responds more naturally to different pickup types as well as boosting. If you see this i hope it helps!
As an owner of both amp sims, and real tube amps, I will say, this video can not be determined by a "one size fits all" mindset. I honestly always prefer the sound of some amp sims. They are convenient, and sound just like a real amp at this point. If I were blindfolded and was asked to tell the difference between a Kemper and a real JCM 900, I would be hard pressed to tell a difference if the signal chain was the same. Amp sims are by no means inferior, and if you had a Kemper to cab right in front of you, you would still hear the same awesomeness that comes from the plexi. But in all, this is all just an opinion. We are all welcome to our own opinions.
For me the worst feeling is the palm mute - VSTs always feel weak while palm muting even when it sounds good.
YES
You're right, and many many of us would prefer a big valve amp or will get one as a move up but for now and way back I get sounds I like and pretty loud too out of solid state. Recently got my first modeling combo to try the idea, likin it. One thing always about solid state is no tubes. Pro or con, personal choice. I do use a tube works preamp though on whichever ss amp I'm playing. Always on, sits on the amp. Good show dude.
So ironically I am a Line 6 Helix user, but I'm gonna mostly agree with you. I actually bought my Engl amp beginning of this year because I have played my Helix for 5 years, and I got into a band, and the other guitarrist was using an actual tube amp, and I plugged into it, and I was like: Aaaah that's what I was missing. Now... I still record 2 tracks with my Helix and 2 tracks with my actual amp, because I love the sound of a Mesa Rectifier, and as you probably know (I'm from the Netherlands) Mesa stuff is impossible to get here, I was VERY lucky with my Mesa 2x12
Didn’t know about mesa and netherland…that’s weird. Even second hands? Is there a reason?
One thing I recently learned to do with sims is automating patch changes through my DAW to occur at specific points in a live playthrough. I don't even own any footswitches or pedals, I can just program all that stuff in. Hell, if I wanted to, I could have the automation change to a completely different amp every ten seconds lol
Now that is really good video. And thanks for bring up Glenn.
He is an audio engineer, and he is helping people make informed and careful purchases in making your own studio by having him test, try, and compare certain products that will be good for us.
And I completely understand where your coming from, it is too late in the day to play your guitar, so you turn on your amp simulator, pop on some headphones and you do whatever you want.
Yes amp sims are getting better now due to advances in technology where today, mic up and mixed a tube amp will not be used as much but still be an option.
Great video and Great job.
Commenting for algorithm 1+. Appreciate your perspective on analog gear is not the same tactile feel right? Congratulations on your growth. From Pomona California🥂
I've used digital and analog gear for two decades, as long as I've made music. Analog gear in general has an immediacy. It's really not about the way a microphone hears it. As a guitarist, that's not what I care about. If I want to produce a song easily, I'll use an amp simulation. If I want to feel like I'm dropping acid with Floor, I'm gonna get some pedals and a tube amp. And maybe some acid. The bottom line is that I've never, not once felt the same way playing into an audio interface as I do playing into my amps. If I want to play for my own enjoyment, an amp is the clear winner. For ease of use, versatility and perfectly acceptable tone, emulations do just fine. My only other qualm with digital emulations is this feeling that the notes start to lack variation in tone. Like if someone plays really clean, it almost sounds like one note being copy/pasted instead of an actual lick. Again, not that noticeable in a mix but it does become apparent in isolation when doing certain things.
They do different things. I don't see a world where I don't use both.
I think that sims truly shine in a home recording setup; especially for putting together demos.
It becomes insanely easy to record bits and pieces due to the whole 'what settings did I use? oh yeah it's all pre-saved for me' thing. With that being said, I couldn't agree more with the 'feel' argument. Still to this day, nothing beats the response and spongy feel that a tube amp delivers.