As a truck driver, you are doing better than most who have never touched an unsynchronized transmission, eventually you'll learn how to float the gears and have a smother ride while saving your clutch
You would have been impressed with my first time witha 9 speed road ranger then haha, to be fair though I was well aware of how an unsyncronised transmission worked so it kinda just came naturally.
@Ross - Nice video, nice to see a "youngster" interested in these old road warriors. Can't tell you how many miles/hours I have behind the wheel of 4104s, 4106s, the Buffalos, Crowns, Gilligs, Eagles, MCIs, etc. - over 35 years in the industry. Some thoughts: 1) DO NOT MOVE THE BUS until you have a minimum of 90-100lbs of air in the system!! Your brakes aren't worth diddly squat until your air pressure is up in the normal operating range of 85-120psi. I'm talking about the dash gauge - not the four little ones. 2) The four little psi gauges with the black knobs is your campground leveling system. Not knowing how it's plumbed (if it's by-passed the OEM leveling valves, for example), here's how to determine the correct psi readings - you'll need a bubble level and a tape measure. On a level surface, and keeping the bubble centered, raise/lower the psi in each valve until the top of the bottom entry step is 14" off the ground. Note the psi readings for each corner so you can keep it level for highway use. 3) The fact that you're learning how to get the coach rolling without using the throttle is a good thing - keep practicing. Put a white Styrofoam cup on the dash filled with water and practice until you can do it without spilling the water. 4) There is NO need for downshifting on city streets. Just keep it in gear until you're almost stopped, then slip it into first. 4th to 3rd coming off the freeway is fine, once you're in the proper speed range for 3rd, then grab the appropriate gear at the end of the offramp. 5) If you haven't found it already, go to busnut.com, click on the "BNO BBS" tab on the upper left, open the "Articles Of Interest" tab, scroll down, read, study, and memorize the "Pre-trip Inspection" and "Shifting" articles. I think you'll find them helpful. "Don't Leave Home Without It!" 6) The rubber mudflap hanging off the rear bumper can, and sometimes does, contribute to overheating. The factory installed a full-width mudflap directly behind the rear axle to create a low-pressure area under the rear of the coach, in order to help draw the hot air out from the engine compartment. The current bumper mudflap defeats the factory's cooling system air flow dynamics. 7) Scott Crosby's "Bus Grease Monkey" is a good site, and he's gotten much better over the years, after a somewhat rocky start. But that was over 8 years ago. . . You should also add Luke Bonagura at US Coach & Equipment in Vineland NJ to your list of contacts - he's the "go to" guru for parts for these old coaches. Works M-F, 9-4 Eastern. That's all for now, hope this helps!
Awesome man thanks for the great info. I've been told the mudflap could be a problem before and have been meaning to remove it. A lot of good insight here-Thank you!
Point on! Drove plenty of 2 struck Detroits. You explained perfectly!! Ross listen to what this guy has to say and you’ll go great! Keep up the good work. I’m super jealous!! Haha.
Great job young man! I was about 11 years old when 1959 GM 4104 was popular and you just gave me a ride in the bus for old time. Thank for sharing this!
I would like to add that you don't have to rev the engine up so high when down shifting, and don't try doing it from 4th to third above 40 mph. Other than that, you're doing fine and you will get better with time. I will also " second the motion> about Scott Crosby. He is just outside Centerville, Tenn., south of exit 163, off I 40. I used to drive motorcoaches in Massachusetts, and I wish I had one for myself. My first choice would be an early MC8 though. 40 foot, manual or factory automatic transmixer, and an 8V 71 T Detroit engine. BTW, If you're up shifting without grinding gears, without double clutching, and it works for you, then that's your style of shifting and don't worry about it. Coming down a grade, with a stop at the bottom, whether you're in 2nd or 3rd, don't throw the clutch in until the dead last second. You need the engine braking to help with the stop. Depending on the brakes alone in such a situation is a BAD IDEA.
Cool last name. After seeing the Twilight Zone episode, when in a high pressure situation where I'd like to give up, I find my self saying "Next Stop, Willoughby!" I haven't jumped yet.
@@scatteredrustyprojects ,Thanks. That put a smile on my face. I have not seen that episode in some time, but as an old guy, I can honestly say I saw it when it first ran.
The biggest thing I was taught when driving a old transmission is there is a RPM range for the shift to happen and you can make the shift without the clutch.(it’s called floating the gears ) most people rev to high thinking it will give them more time to make the shift but it changes where to find that next gear up or down
You’re handling that big bus really well. Driving a “crash box” transmission is a challenge but you get better by driving it. Double clutching will definitely get you into a smoother operation. Great old bus! These were everywhere in the 50s and 60s. Thanks for posting!
*Thanks for taking us on a ride and explaining the nuances of operating that awesome old beast!* I'll join the chorus of folks praising a young fella for learning how to handle a historic vehicle like that! Can't imagine there are many of this one's vintage in such good running condition. *Trip down memory lane for me: * Back around 1970-73, during summer break I used to spend weekends with my grandparents. Dad would drop me off on Thurs. night, and the next morning Grandma and I would take one of these GMC buses (tho' probably not this exact model) downtown to do her shopping. We'd sit up front in the seats that ran parallel to the aisle, so I could watch the driver. Even as a little kid, I was impressed at how much *work* the driver had to do to operate that bus! ..... (Well, for some reason, the fare box always intrigued me, too.) Later, when I was in college, I rode later-model GMC buses back and forth to campus every day. But every once in a while the regular bus must've been out of commission or something because one of those old 1960s buses would show up.
I would start looking for air leaks, a half-hour is a long time to air up... 671s aren't rare, they're used in a lot of different industries and heavy equipment. Go to a glass shop for side windows. It's all flat glass on the side, take them one for measurement, tell them it's for a vehicle so they give you the correct glass, don't tell them it's for a '50s vehicle and you should be fine. It's the rear glass that's hard to find! Nice bus!
Hi mate , I’m in London uk 🇬🇧 and I often drive some old lorry units and exactly the same double clutch . I’m a huge fan of the American old buses and this video was so entertaining. Also nice to see a young man like yourself express an interest in what is amazing history . Thanks again
Nice to see a young man with an old bus! Shifting will get easier with more driving. I recommend you fix that seat suspension, driving is so much easier if the seat doesn't try to throw you off all the time. Air pressure should be up in few minutes, not 30, you either have a huge leak or worn compressor.
Ross, just remember that this bus has a diesel engine. Diesels have a lot of low end torque which means that they run at lower RPM's that a gas engine. Three thousand R's is about tops and 1500 is a good driving engine speed. Now as far as the transmission, double clutching will get faster as you drive. For instance, first gear, shift to neutral, clutch out, then in, shift to second and so on. Down shifting is the same method only backwards. I would check the brakes ASAP. A vehicle doesn't have to go but it does have to stop. Good luck with this bus. There are a lot of people who love these buses and are willing to help a new owner.
2100-2300 rpm is top end on a old 2 stroke Detroit and that's absolutely SCREAMING. 2300 rpm from a Detroit sounds like 4600 because the 2 stroke has twice as many power strokes as a 4 stroke because the cylinder fires every up stroke unlike a 4 stroke that hits every other up stroke. Something else worth mentioning is the fact that you don't need to throttle coming out of the clutch because of the low end grunt of a diesel. Throttling out of the clutch will burn the clutch disc and glaze and heat crack the flywheel.
For 2-strokes thats not entirely True. They make most power higher up and its basically 'drive em like you stole em'. Lugging is exceptionally bad for these engines.
Check out the Bus Grease Monkey channel. Your bus is the kind that Scott is an expert at; they also work on newer buses mostly with Detroit Diesel engines. Good luck
A 1959 4104 was the first coach I had driven on the road in the mid ‘70’s, when I started my mechanical apprenticeship. Seeing this brings back some good old memories!
I rode one of these with Greyhound in 1967 from Phoenix to Los Angeles back when all but the last 100 miles was on a two lane road. I'm a bus nut so bus travel left great memories both in the city and long haul. Not a fan of buses that have been converted to RVs but glad this bus has survived. 6.71's are still relatively common since a number of these older buses as well as semi trucks have survived. It's my favorite diesel engine.
The inline series 6-71 was the flagship product of the Detroit Diesel division of General motors introduced in 1938, the v-type would be introduced in 1957. There was even a pancake variant, known as the 6L71, and 6n71, for use on horizontal underfloor-mount vehicles such as larger crown and gillig school buses. There's also the gray marine 6-71, The General motors 6046 twin pack. Used in such vehicles as the Achilles m10 tank destroyer. LCI, the quad 6051 71 series.
You should clutch in > go to neutral > clutch out > rev it to match the gears > clutch in > put it in gear > clutch out. The skill is in the speed of this process and also being able to rev to correct RPM to not grind the gears. I have never driven old american bus but we had gearboxes like this in Europe also :D
Wow Ross, I tremendously enjoyed your video. Great hobby. A '59 model myself and a transit busdriver, I have three more years till retirement. Since 1990 our entire fleet has automatic transmissions, thank heavens for that 😁
Thanks, everybody for the comments. I've been doing some things wrong and appreciate the input. I shouldn't be keeping it on the governor as much as I was and I was wrong about the air suspension. It is manual inflation (changed from factory self leveling) she wasn't aired up much at all. I'm in the process of making a part two to this video. I've had a lot more practice with shifting and have figured out the bus a lot more. I had a lot of misconceptions rooted out by all of your input. I'll explain in more detail in part two. Thank you
Grew up on a farm in the 60's and learned to drive on a manual. Non syncro gearboxes are no problem, and for the size, at 16 was operating a twin screw grain truck so this bus would be a piece of cake to operate. Did you ever think of airing the thing up with a aux compressor to start up. Simply run a air line to the air tank and use a compressor to fill the tank. Remember the air compressor on that diesel is rather small.
I had a 5303 (transit bus) with the same trans. I wouldn't rev it between upshifts, just wind it out, push clutch, pull to neutral, let clutch out, then immediately push back in, and pull it into the next gear before the engine wound down. It would slightly grind as the gears slowed down, but never had an issue. I also used the brakes as usual, just HAD to make sure to put it into first before coming to a complete stop. The clutch, when cold, would drag the input shaft of the trans and keep it spinning even with the clutch in. The brakes are massive, don't be scared to use them.
I was taught to never touch the clutch when shifting. Wind up untill it tops out, lightly pull the shifter out of first and ease right into second as the rpm's drop. Same with downshifting, let up putting pressure on the shifter and when the rpm's are right it will drop into neutral as you rev it moving it on into the next lower gear as they will match up. Then let off the accelerator. Much simpler.
Your doing really good in my opinion. I drove one of these for four years on regular passenger run . You will learn at your own schedule so it takes time. Keep driving and you will be fine. You might want to look for air leaks . Best Wishes.
For the better parts of the 1970s and the beginning of the 1980s...I converted a 4104 for a gospel band traveling all over the midwest and south through all of Mexico, Honduras, and Guatemala. There is probably enough of a cult following that there's a bus nut more than willing to give you advice. We traveled in every state in Mexico. One thing (although this is old info) the 4104 was manufactured in Mexico so in the time frame I'm referring to there was no problem finding parts. I'd buy a couple of air bladders as one or more may be leaking. Don't worry as some have said shifting that old dinosaur will be second nature to you in about a month. The grease monkey guy is probably a good contact, he's probably a second generation, my mechanic used him. Regarding lugging I used the rearview mirror as my guide...increased smoke means you're lugging, usually noticeable before the gauges tell you. We used a higher grade of diesel back in the day. Today probably the fuel is better. Good luck young man. Btw they go like hell well beyond 80 the last mark on the gauge. And, DON"T let it overheat!
Public Service of New Jersey operated hundreds of 4 speed crashbox GMs. The drivers didn't use the clutch much after getting it moving in first. Up and downshifts were floated, no clutch used. Skilled drivers!
Thanks for the video. 30 min to air up sounds long. You may have an air leak. I am not a bus guy but I follow Scott and his gang at Bus Grease Monkey. I highly recommend his chan. He specializes in old buses.
Great video. I like the GMC scenic cruiser. Same transmission 4 speed double clutch. Your coach is great I wish I could ride with you once. Young person awesome.
Engine doesn't need rapped completely out, and such high RPMs aren't needed to grab another gear. You'll catch on to it eventually. After awhile you'll be able to float the gears without even using the clutch.
Run it up to the governor then shift quicker. I was your age when I started driving those and newer GMCS and on to the MCI, I have about 2 million miles in them, long retired now. Thanks for bringing back memories.
So cool seeing and riding along this bus! Great explanation re: the non-synchro transmission and details when shifting. I recall seeing the school bus driver double clutch a GMC school bus, a 1964 or so. I respect the skill needed to drive this!
To assist in your gaining dexterity in double-clutching; learn to trust your ears and that DD! In upshifting learn to shift as motor revs up not when you reach redline in any gear. There exists shift points within each gear range that once leaned make for seamless shifting! Imagine operators of that era could smoothly engage clutch and make shifts without moving passengers forward or backwards given the fluidity of their clutch and stick work! Practice employing rhythmic timing and learn the shift points/ range via reading your tach! Otherwise enjoy this essential classic! Any driver of that era will remember how taut those GMC transmissions were especially on both their 4107/4108 Buffalos. You needed to be spot on or you grinded gears or had to slow/stop and start again from 1st!
Double clutching is a great way to start learning to shift these old transmissions. Once you get the hang of it you could actually do all the shifting without any clutch at all
First of all your not an idiot a lucky young man wish I had the time to spend with you driving it that's what I learned on in 1976 I got over 1,000,000 miles with them GMC and MCI coaches I could show you some cool tricks at shifting them really smooth people would think your driving an automatic ,I mess the older busses wish I had a bought one just for historical purposes
You seem to be doing fine playing/Slipping the clutch while moving slowly . Just don’t overdo it because you can burn the clutch. Whenever possible keep it fully engaged when you want to move and disengaged while stationary that way you lessen the wear on the parts. Remember that it is not a baby buggy like most cars. Keep plenty of space ahead and don’t go too fast. Learn about braking and using compression to keep speed down and conserving brakes and air pressure on long or steep grades. Know where You are going and that You will have no problems negotiating narrow roads and parked cars. Don’t go down a road that You cannot back out of. Learn to use the mirrors to back up and always be careful for inattentive driver’s who are not watching for Your warning and turn signals. Many drivers drive too fast and are not looking or thinking ahead. Many lack professional driving skills but believe that speeding is skill. There will be time when You must overtake and pass slower vehicles of people who bunch up and may be daydreaming but always watch out for those who will pull out in front of You without being able to accelerate properly to match the speed of the faster traffic traffic they are merging into. Too many people are selfish drivers and inconsiderate of others. They may pull into you’re safety zone and brake suddenly because they are inconsiderate. Try to avoid excessive braking by anticipating the need for it and slowing or backing off on the throttle. Drivers of heavy trucks look ahead and slow when seeing red lights or green ones that may be getting ready to go yellow then red by slowing and not having to stop completely momentum can help you gain speed more quickly whereas stopping completely makes it harder to get with the flow of traffic.Make sure You are insured for friends riding along and no boozer’s . Even non driving ones can be problems.
Diesel engines have so much torque that if the engine rpm is increased while starting out from a standstill will prematurely wear out the clutch disc. What you were doing when you were backing out of the parking stall was correct.
What an awesome bus! I love those old beauties. There’s just something special about them. You did a great job driving it too. What a unique video. Thanks for the ride! 👍
I drove these very buses in 1974. The transit system in Denver I worked for, condemned a private bus company that had several of these in their fleet. They had the two speed rear axles with a button on the shift lever. We ran them on the old company's bus routes. I used to double clutch the crap out of them. The District got rid of them as soon as new buses were delivered.
just lightly hold the throttle as you shift slowly and let it suck the gear in. you will get it. old transmissions are fun to learn to shift fast. you will notice a half way point between neutral and fully into a gear, that half way point is the point you pause .
I'm not convinced he needs to rev it to redline for every downshift either, it's all about rev matching, so just rev slightly past where you need it, then it slots into gear as the engine speed decreases into the right range for the gear
you are right. its all about rev matching, And that is the idea behind what i say when i mention keepign your foot on the throttle. dont fully lift off the throttle because it causes the engine rpm to drop too low and now the gears may not wanna match up right. and the point and rpm will depend on what gear your in. its quite fun to learn your machines sweet spots.
When you get the speed of the transmission gear to match the speed of the engine output gear, You don't need to use the clutch at all. I had a failed clutch linkage one time and I left Leominster, Ma, and drove about 70 miles to the New York State Line on the Massachusetts Turnpike. I actually had to shut the engine off at the toll booths, and then restart while it was in gear after paying toll. I wouldn't recommend it but there may come a time when you don't have a way to clutch and It beats the crap out of sitting along the road for hours. You have to plan your stops way in advance and run up and down all the gears. With that screamin' 671 there is enough rpm differential to drop 2 gears per shift on a 10 speed, IF do it perfectly, but it's very do-able! Love the bus. Check relentlessly for a vendor to replace those windows. There are always lots of start up small businesses that make amazing products, and the internet is a great way of finding a place! Best of luck and keep the old girl running. Love to see more vids soon.
Double clutching time.I learned at ups in 78. Got to watch your tach.Nice old bus.You’re doing good!You have your Grands father spirit of driving.After a while ,you’ll won’t use the clutch .
Anyone else get a little worried when the camera fell over lol great video! Extremely entertaining and educational and I'm quite jealous, I'd love the chance to learn how to drive a beast like that!
Use to drive them when I was in my early 20's first job. FYI, if you lower your seat all the way down, and put a long shifter knob on there, you will find it much easier. Take a while to get used to the lowered seat but, it makes it so nice.
You’re doing okay. As others have said here, it’s not necessary to “rev the piss out of it” when down shifting. When you time is correctly you just have to blip the throttle. Other than that, for someone who is learning you’re doing really well.
Heh. Los Angeles Unified School District used to have a lot of Crown and Gillig school buses with a 6-71 mounted pancake-style in the middle, under the floor back in the day. Not hearing that sound anymore where I am is torture to me! Oh, and Bus Grease Monkey shall be your new best friend BTW. You will not regret it one bit
Very cool bus and impressive knowledge on how to operate it and drive a non-synchronized manual. Not too many guys (especially as young as you are) have that kind of knowledge. Looking forward to more posts!
Two things. 1. Great video. 2. My grandpa passed on a 1970 C10 Chevy after he passed away. Both my mother and I grew up in that truck. He bought it in...I believe 72. The first guy who owned it thought it was a good idea to build his own transmission and I have to drive that damn truck the same way you drive this bus. My grandpa never replaced the transmission either so I had to learn how to do it. I know next to nothing about it and when I do the rebuild, it's definitely going byebye.
I'm looking forward to seeing this video. I drove busses long haul for 43 years for a very large company. I've been in just about every province and state every where. I rarely double clutched and my shifts are always silky smooth with two fingers on the stick. I partial clutch. If you'd like to see how you partial clutch watch my trucking video shifting a 13 speed Peterbilt 379. See Stern Drive with Doug Stern and you too can shift like a pro as well. Let me know how it goes. Safe travels!
Oh my gosh the bus is my thing man!!! Love the bus. I am totally blind and a business owner. I have a thing about buses. That is my mode of transportation. Yes. I love trains but there is something about the bus that is just so awesome. I was going to say just hearing all this is really amazing and the buses from yesterday year were very difficult. Those were the days when the bus driver had to practically hug the wheel. And I have heard that driving these monsters is very difficult. Just like cars back in the day. Even a car was very difficult to drive. I really marvel at this just the way you are operating this beast is something else man. I could feel it. It definitely sounds complicated. Things that the modern day buses don’t need to worry about. Still having to bee careful in a huge bus today hahaha. But the steering wheel is smaller and there is power steering in the wheel these days to make it much easier to turn not like back then. There is something about buses that I really am attracted to. I had an hour and a half to preschool and an hour and a half back so I guess you could see why I love the bus. And not to mention that was my first bus ride. Both ways an hour and a half their to school and hour and a half years ago. Then of course as I got older riding buses to school of course bussing to school was not that long and now as an adult a business owner I still take buses to this day. My commutes can bee from short to over 3 and a half hours long depending where I am working. Even in my daily activities buses are a part of my day. It is something so mundane that we all do we don’t even think about it but the bus is a very important part of our day. Cause that is what moves me around the city and not just me others as well. Pretty awesome for your first time sounds like driving this monster. I am always in awe of those who drive even the modern day bus like what we ride today. It takes a certain person to drive a bus you have to have the personality for this and the attitude for this. Not everyone can do that.❤😂
You’re overrevving on your downshifts. Listen to the highest rpm and the rpm where the downshift actually engages. They are too far apart. Just a bit of advice As for the upshift double clutch grinding. Dont put the clutch all the way in, it has a brake and will put everything way out of sync. Try clutch in 3/4’s shift to neutral clutch out then clutch in 3/4’s again and upshift. That should smooth it out. Also look into floating gears like in a semi. You only need the clutch from a dead stop to get moving, then at the correct rpm the stick can fall into the next up gear without clutching
On most manual semi-s usually you do not need to double-clutch just "feather" the accelerator to get it out of a gear or get it into next...of course sometimes you need it a bit... The technique for shifting is to hold it at the gate with light pressure "3 finger" and when the rev matches then it will go in...
One BIG mistake with Double Clutching is pushing the Pedal too far down . Advice from a Retired Trucker . Push it down into the " Take-Up " Zone , so that it is Slippy and " Feel " your way between gears . No force needed , you will feel it coming good . After you get used to it you may even Stop using the clutch and " Float " the gears . That will happen once you Know the Ratios . If there is no Tachometer , the Speedo tells you what gear you should be in . There may even be Marks on the Dial to help . Lovely Old Bus .
To help shift, "cheat the stick". That is to apply a little pressure on the shifter and "shift with your foot" when you clutch. Also, use a 1-2 motion pausing slightly in neutral.
Bob Monger is 100% correct. I was gonna make same suggestion. You don't even need to use clutch except when you come to a stop. Upshifting put little pressure on stick about 2100 rpm's then take foot off throttle, then move stick to next gear and it should slide in at about 1900rpm's. Also drain air tanks and add alcohol in winter. Same with fuel in winter, add anti gel. WOW, you got alot to learn but your gonna have lots of fun especially if you like mechanical work. Very best of luck to ya. Kinda wish you were near me, I would come and fix(play)with that bus with you. Enjoy.✌️out
Nice bus man! I’m not certain because there could be combo systems out there…but I’m pretty sure your air suspension is no longer self leveling, those black knobs under the gauges are manual valves for each corner. Push or pull to add or release air. Again not certain but pretty sure haha. Bus did look very low when you drove away, typical bag pressure should be nearer to 80lbs than 40 when you’re on the road in my experience. As for shifting, with my 6-71 and 4-speed I find double clutching every shift up or down is faster and smoother than the “patient” way. You are doing good going up to the governor every time before shifting, thats the only way these old two stroke diesels will stay cool. Don’t be afraid of rpms!
Yep, I've been told RPMs are your friend on the 2-stroke diesel. I think you may be right the rear end looks pretty dang low. I was told by one of my grandpa's friends (an expert diesel mechanic who drove with him to truck shows) she was self-leveling. You're right the black knobs are to add and remove air manually but it's my understanding that is just an option and she will eventually level out...which I've found to be true
@@RossTheBuilder how much air is in your bags when you're driving. I just rewatched and man o man you're bouncing around a lot...unless those roads are way worse than they look!!
Back in 1981-82 I was at the Word of Life Bible Institute, up in the Adirondacks in, NY State. They had a travelling student choir, and they had three old buses they used for that. They had a 4106, and two 4104s. They were old back then, but to me they looked very modern. I was not in that choir, so never rode in them. A few years later I remember driving my grandfather's farm truck, which was a 1947 Studebaker with a 4-speed unsynchronized transmission. My Dad warned me about it ahead of time, and I had to teach myself double-clutching, which was fine.
Great video but i was hoping for a quick walk thru the bus. To show her creature comforts Maybe next time. They are nerve racking enough with automatic shifting, So hats off on job well done...
Awesome bus. I’m not sure if this applies to buses but I was told not to downshift when slowing down in a manual. Reason being is that using the drivetrain to slow down the vehicle is pretty hard on the transmission and clutch. Brakes are cheap and easy to replace. Would love to drive one of these one day.
You have been told very wrong things. During engine braking, you have exactly the same forces as when you're accelerating, just in the opposite direction. There is absolutely no harm in engine braking. In cars and on bikes, you don't need to conciously engine brake - just keep it in gear, downshift when you hit 1500ish RPM. All the rest of the deceleration you need, you do with your brakes. Usually you don't shift down to first if you're coming to a stop. The exception is when you go down grades. In this case, you shift down to whatever gear you need to not increase your speed (but also not go too slow). Only when you run out of engine braking, you start working the brakes. It is completely normal to have your engine screaming at 75% of redline when going down a grade. This is even more important on cars with an automatic transmission! Those low/1/2/3 settings are there for a reason. In D, an automatic pretty much does not have any engine braking, you have to shift down on a down grade to avoid cooking your brakes and losing brake power.
shifting will become second nature after a while , you won't even consciously think about it . drove that same engine (we called 'em 238s) w/10 speeds , 20k empty/50k loaded for years . this might help downshifting till you learn by ear : mark top speed in 1st , 2nd , 3rd on speedo . for example let's say top speed in 3rd is 45 mph . you're in 4th , she pulls down near 45 , clutch pedal in , neutral and hold throttle wide open w/clutch out , clutch in and get 3rd , clutch out (all relatively quickly) . fairly level ground example , compensate for steepness of hill .
Love that BUS!! But you're revving so high my friend!! Remember it's a diesel engine!! Diesel engine runs at low rpm's so 1500 is the right rpm for you to shift! Good luck
@Kim Ro Woon - When he hit's the governor in 1st gear, the engine's only turning 2100 rpm - it just sounds so much faster because it's a two-stroke design. 1500 is ok for a four-stroke engine, but not these Detroits.
I am not exactly sure what my bags run at but my air system runs around 115 pounds. I didnt think the bags would be so low. Putting in a back up camera from ebay is not hard and quite necessary. Just need 12 volts and run a long cable to the back. Put one in my bus - 45 feet. i actually installed a second one. One for looking back and one for looking down to get close when going into camp sites. Saves me having the wife on the phone behind me all the time and acts as a rear view mirror when going down the highway. I went with the cables as I heard wireless can be not so good on a long bus. My picture is always crystal clear.
You ask about double clutching on the up shifts. The thing is that once the gearbox oil is up to normal running temperature you might need to double clutch even then and also do it a little quicker.
Aah! Your grandad was Dr. Bill's brother, correct? Much like mine, your last name isn't exactly Smith or Johnson, lol, so it sticks in one's memory. I do believe I met Jerry at ATHS Syracuse or Macungie quite a few years back. Dr. Bill and his Mack will not soon be forgotten, small world. My condolences for your loss.
@@RossTheBuilder So sorry to hear of your Grandad's passing a few years ago, I hope the driver was jailed. Dr. Bill was a legend in the ATHS and is talked about daily on Mack forums to this day. What became of his W? You could and should do a piece on both of them, they led very storied lives. The tale of the Jersey turnpike brick disaster was similar to a load of asphalt I dumped in the wrong place once, back when I just got my CDL and lied to a paving company to get a job, had to shovel it back in by hand. Though most was tossed into the woods, lol. Is the bus in Colorado or Mass.? I know plenty of folks that'd be happy to help you sort it out. Sounds like the regulator isn't letting pressure build fast enough. Let me know, I'm in NY. My Uncle Bonesy knew Dr. Bill very well, Mack guys, lol.
The Bus and I are in MA. That's a great idea. My gramps Jerry and I, before he passed, would exchange emails during the early stages of COVID and he told me a few really good trucking stories (including that Jersey turnpike one!). You're right, a write-up would be a great idea. I've got a blog to write up some of Jerry's trucking stories and I'll see what I can find on Bill. I'm definitely in way over my head with this Bus and, and although I've got all the service manuals, I'm no diesel or bus mechanic. I, however, definitely have the 'gearhead' gene and will do my best to take care of the bus. I'm all ears for people that would be willing to help me sort out issues with the Bus. I'm in college and I fear I may not find the time to give the old girl the attention she deserves.
@@RossTheBuilder You'll be fine, just reach out to the community and I guarantee you'll have more than enough hands ready, willing and able to guide you. Good talking to ya, Ross.
Try shifting WITHOUT the clutch, it’s usually a lot easier on those old transmissions. Also, make certain you have enough oil in the transmission, and that the oil is CLEAN. No need to redline on shifts, either, up or down. You can upshift just after the engine starts to pull, which on the old Jimmies is usually around 1600. Downshift when it starts to lug. Practice will bring perfection!
Powered by General Motors,(6-71) that's a engine with 6 cylinder's in line bore at (71) cubic inches per cylinder ,city greyhounds for interstate use ,used a (8v-71) again it's 71 cubic inches with a 8 cylinder Vee block
![Kumamoto Masters Japan 2024 | Gregoria Mariska Tunjung (INA) [5] vs. Akane Yamaguchi (JPN) [2] | F](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EIjZybhsWqA/mqdefault.jpg)
As a truck driver, you are doing better than most who have never touched an unsynchronized transmission, eventually you'll learn how to float the gears and have a smother ride while saving your clutch
Spot on comment i own one of these i only touch the clutch at a light..thats it floating is you friend
You would have been impressed with my first time witha 9 speed road ranger then haha, to be fair though I was well aware of how an unsyncronised transmission worked so it kinda just came naturally.
@Ross - Nice video, nice to see a "youngster" interested in these old road warriors. Can't tell you how many miles/hours I have behind the wheel of 4104s, 4106s, the Buffalos, Crowns, Gilligs, Eagles, MCIs, etc. - over 35 years in the industry. Some thoughts:
1) DO NOT MOVE THE BUS until you have a minimum of 90-100lbs of air in the system!! Your brakes aren't worth diddly squat until your air pressure is up in the normal operating range of 85-120psi. I'm talking about the dash gauge - not the four little ones.
2) The four little psi gauges with the black knobs is your campground leveling system. Not knowing how it's plumbed (if it's by-passed the OEM leveling valves, for example), here's how to determine the correct psi readings - you'll need a bubble level and a tape measure. On a level surface, and keeping the bubble centered, raise/lower the psi in each valve until the top of the bottom entry step is 14" off the ground. Note the psi readings for each corner so you can keep it level for highway use.
3) The fact that you're learning how to get the coach rolling without using the throttle is a good thing - keep practicing. Put a white Styrofoam cup on the dash filled with water and practice until you can do it without spilling the water.
4) There is NO need for downshifting on city streets. Just keep it in gear until you're almost stopped, then slip it into first. 4th to 3rd coming off the freeway is fine, once you're in the proper speed range for 3rd, then grab the appropriate gear at the end of the offramp.
5) If you haven't found it already, go to busnut.com, click on the "BNO BBS" tab on the upper left, open the "Articles Of Interest" tab, scroll down, read, study, and memorize the "Pre-trip Inspection" and "Shifting" articles. I think you'll find them helpful. "Don't Leave Home Without It!"
6) The rubber mudflap hanging off the rear bumper can, and sometimes does, contribute to overheating. The factory installed a full-width mudflap directly behind the rear axle to create a low-pressure area under the rear of the coach, in order to help draw the hot air out from the engine compartment. The current bumper mudflap defeats the factory's cooling system air flow dynamics.
7) Scott Crosby's "Bus Grease Monkey" is a good site, and he's gotten much better over the years, after a somewhat rocky start. But that was over 8 years ago. . . You should also add Luke Bonagura at US Coach & Equipment in Vineland NJ to your list of contacts - he's the "go to" guru for parts for these old coaches. Works M-F, 9-4 Eastern.
That's all for now, hope this helps!
Awesome man thanks for the great info. I've been told the mudflap could be a problem before and have been meaning to remove it. A lot of good insight here-Thank you!
Point on! Drove plenty of 2 struck Detroits. You explained perfectly!! Ross listen to what this guy has to say and you’ll go great! Keep up the good work. I’m super jealous!! Haha.
Great job young man! I was about 11 years old when 1959 GM 4104 was popular and you just gave me a ride in the bus for old time. Thank for sharing this!
Arthur Thompson, i was 10
I would like to add that you don't have to rev the engine up so high when down shifting, and don't try doing it from 4th to third above 40 mph. Other than that, you're doing fine and you will get better with time. I will also " second the motion> about Scott Crosby. He is just outside Centerville, Tenn., south of exit 163, off I 40. I used to drive motorcoaches in Massachusetts, and I wish I had one for myself. My first choice would be an early MC8 though. 40 foot, manual or factory automatic transmixer, and an 8V 71 T Detroit engine. BTW, If you're up shifting without grinding gears, without double clutching, and it works for you, then that's your style of shifting and don't worry about it. Coming down a grade, with a stop at the bottom, whether you're in 2nd or 3rd, don't throw the clutch in until the dead last second. You need the engine braking to help with the stop. Depending on the brakes alone in such a situation is a BAD IDEA.
Thank you. Solid info
Cool last name. After seeing the Twilight Zone episode, when in a high pressure situation where I'd like to give up, I find my self saying "Next Stop, Willoughby!" I haven't jumped yet.
@@scatteredrustyprojects ,Thanks. That put a smile on my face. I have not seen that episode in some time, but as an old guy, I can honestly say I saw it when it first ran.
The biggest thing I was taught when driving a old transmission is there is a RPM range for the shift to happen and you can make the shift without the clutch.(it’s called floating the gears ) most people rev to high thinking it will give them more time to make the shift but it changes where to find that next gear up or down
what company? i was U.S. Express, King Ward, Travel Kus. I own a 4106.
You’re handling that big bus really well. Driving a “crash box” transmission is a challenge but you get better by driving it. Double clutching will definitely get you into a smoother operation. Great old bus! These were everywhere in the 50s and 60s. Thanks for posting!
*Thanks for taking us on a ride and explaining the nuances of operating that awesome old beast!* I'll join the chorus of folks praising a young fella for learning how to handle a historic vehicle like that! Can't imagine there are many of this one's vintage in such good running condition. *Trip down memory lane for me: * Back around 1970-73, during summer break I used to spend weekends with my grandparents. Dad would drop me off on Thurs. night, and the next morning Grandma and I would take one of these GMC buses (tho' probably not this exact model) downtown to do her shopping. We'd sit up front in the seats that ran parallel to the aisle, so I could watch the driver. Even as a little kid, I was impressed at how much *work* the driver had to do to operate that bus! ..... (Well, for some reason, the fare box always intrigued me, too.) Later, when I was in college, I rode later-model GMC buses back and forth to campus every day. But every once in a while the regular bus must've been out of commission or something because one of those old 1960s buses would show up.
Thank you for the kind words. These busses are awesome and have so much history to them
Where’s iiids this at
I would start looking for air leaks, a half-hour is a long time to air up...
671s aren't rare, they're used in a lot of different industries and heavy equipment.
Go to a glass shop for side windows. It's all flat glass on the side, take them one for measurement, tell them it's for a vehicle so they give you the correct glass, don't tell them it's for a '50s vehicle and you should be fine. It's the rear glass that's hard to find!
Nice bus!
Good info. Thank you
Hi mate , I’m in London uk 🇬🇧 and I often drive some old lorry units and exactly the same double clutch . I’m a huge fan of the American old buses and this video was so entertaining. Also nice to see a young man like yourself express an interest in what is amazing history . Thanks again
Nice to see a young man with an old bus! Shifting will get easier with more driving. I recommend you fix that seat suspension, driving is so much easier if the seat doesn't try to throw you off all the time. Air pressure should be up in few minutes, not 30, you either have a huge leak or worn compressor.
jaakko is watching, i think he was going by those four leveling gauges
Ross, just remember that this bus has a diesel engine. Diesels have a lot of low end torque which means that they run at lower RPM's that a gas engine. Three thousand R's is about tops and 1500 is a good driving engine speed. Now as far as the transmission, double clutching will get faster as you drive. For instance, first gear, shift to neutral, clutch out, then in, shift to second and so on. Down shifting is the same method only backwards. I would check the brakes ASAP. A vehicle doesn't have to go but it does have to stop. Good luck with this bus. There are a lot of people who love these buses and are willing to help a new owner.
2100-2300 rpm is top end on a old 2 stroke Detroit and that's absolutely SCREAMING. 2300 rpm from a Detroit sounds like 4600 because the 2 stroke has twice as many power strokes as a 4 stroke because the cylinder fires every up stroke unlike a 4 stroke that hits every other up stroke. Something else worth mentioning is the fact that you don't need to throttle coming out of the clutch because of the low end grunt of a diesel. Throttling out of the clutch will burn the clutch disc and glaze and heat crack the flywheel.
For 2-strokes thats not entirely True. They make most power higher up and its basically 'drive em like you stole em'. Lugging is exceptionally bad for these engines.
@@Wayoutthere this is also my understanding. Drive it like you stole it. It’s Better for the engine and makes it fun to drive
Check out the Bus Grease Monkey channel. Your bus is the kind that Scott is an expert at; they also work on newer buses mostly with Detroit Diesel engines. Good luck
A 1959 4104 was the first coach I had driven on the road in the mid ‘70’s, when I started my mechanical apprenticeship. Seeing this brings back some good old memories!
I rode one of these with Greyhound in 1967 from Phoenix to Los Angeles back when all but the last 100 miles was on a two lane road. I'm a bus nut so bus travel left great memories both in the city and long haul.
Not a fan of buses that have been converted to RVs but glad this bus has survived.
6.71's are still relatively common since a number of these older buses as well as semi trucks have survived. It's my favorite diesel engine.
Can't beat the sound of the old 6-71. Wish it had a working jake brake!
@@RossTheBuilder 6-71's sing beautiful music. I remember the first time I rode a city bus when I was about 5 and been hooked on them ever since.
The inline series 6-71 was the flagship product of the Detroit Diesel division of General motors introduced in 1938, the v-type would be introduced in 1957. There was even a pancake variant, known as the 6L71, and 6n71, for use on horizontal underfloor-mount vehicles such as larger crown and gillig school buses. There's also the gray marine 6-71, The General motors 6046 twin pack. Used in such vehicles as the Achilles m10 tank destroyer. LCI, the quad 6051 71 series.
I learned to drive on unsynchronized manual transmission. That bus is really a historical gem.
soo wère 1980 spssd demm card
You should clutch in > go to neutral > clutch out > rev it to match the gears > clutch in > put it in gear > clutch out. The skill is in the speed of this process and also being able to rev to correct RPM to not grind the gears. I have never driven old american bus but we had gearboxes like this in Europe also :D
Wow Ross, I tremendously enjoyed your video. Great hobby. A '59 model myself and a transit busdriver, I have three more years till retirement. Since 1990 our entire fleet has automatic transmissions, thank heavens for that 😁
Thanks, everybody for the comments. I've been doing some things wrong and appreciate the input. I shouldn't be keeping it on the governor as much as I was and I was wrong about the air suspension. It is manual inflation (changed from factory self leveling) she wasn't aired up much at all. I'm in the process of making a part two to this video. I've had a lot more practice with shifting and have figured out the bus a lot more. I had a lot of misconceptions rooted out by all of your input. I'll explain in more detail in part two. Thank you
What is you name brother congratulechion
Ross, Nice job driving. Your grandpa would be proud.
Thank you
Grew up on a farm in the 60's and learned to drive on a manual. Non syncro gearboxes are no problem, and for the size, at 16 was operating a twin screw grain truck so this bus would be a piece of cake to operate. Did you ever think of airing the thing up with a aux compressor to start up. Simply run a air line to the air tank and use a compressor to fill the tank. Remember the air compressor on that diesel is rather small.
Great idea
hief at ¹6 drive porshe 930 tirbó lsmbghhíes fsrrieß 398 miñí viçe farí
I had a 5303 (transit bus) with the same trans. I wouldn't rev it between upshifts, just wind it out, push clutch, pull to neutral, let clutch out, then immediately push back in, and pull it into the next gear before the engine wound down. It would slightly grind as the gears slowed down, but never had an issue. I also used the brakes as usual, just HAD to make sure to put it into first before coming to a complete stop. The clutch, when cold, would drag the input shaft of the trans and keep it spinning even with the clutch in. The brakes are massive, don't be scared to use them.
I was taught to never touch the clutch when shifting. Wind up untill it tops out, lightly pull the shifter out of first and ease right into second as the rpm's drop. Same with downshifting, let up putting pressure on the shifter and when the rpm's are right it will drop into neutral as you rev it moving it on into the next lower gear as they will match up. Then let off the accelerator. Much simpler.
@@davidg.1623 good info. Thank you
Your doing really good in my opinion. I drove one of these for four years on regular passenger run . You will learn at your own schedule so it takes time. Keep driving and you will be fine. You might want to look for air leaks . Best Wishes.
Those old buses must have been built like TANKS. And, wow, just a drive around the town is a workout.
yes 1980 speed demm cats stiól o riad zrto iseusß
WOW...I grew up riding these and always why the driver would rev the motor when shifting/I learned quite a bit from you sir...keep the videos coming
No need to double-clutch on the upshift, as you've just proved.
She's a beast.
I'd love to see her on a wide road, going full blast.
For the better parts of the 1970s and the beginning of the 1980s...I converted a 4104 for a gospel band traveling all over the midwest and south through all of Mexico, Honduras, and Guatemala. There is probably enough of a cult following that there's a bus nut more than willing to give you advice. We traveled in every state in Mexico. One thing (although this is old info) the 4104 was manufactured in Mexico so in the time frame I'm referring to there was no problem finding parts. I'd buy a couple of air bladders as one or more may be leaking. Don't worry as some have said shifting that old dinosaur will be second nature to you in about a month. The grease monkey guy is probably a good contact, he's probably a second generation, my mechanic used him. Regarding lugging I used the rearview mirror as my guide...increased smoke means you're lugging, usually noticeable before the gauges tell you. We used a higher grade of diesel back in the day. Today probably the fuel is better. Good luck young man. Btw they go like hell well beyond 80 the last mark on the gauge. And, DON"T let it overheat!
Congrats you are now a part of 1 percent of the world population that can properly shift a unsynchronized transmission in your age group
Public Service of New Jersey operated hundreds of 4 speed crashbox GMs. The drivers didn't use the clutch much after getting it moving in first. Up and downshifts were floated, no clutch used. Skilled drivers!
Hi Ross, i had to post.
This showed up on my feed.
You are doing a good job of keeping me engaged.
Thanks for the video. 30 min to air up sounds long. You may have an air leak. I am not a bus guy but I follow Scott and his gang at Bus Grease Monkey. I highly recommend his chan. He specializes in old buses.
That Detroit diesel is music to my ears. I once rode greyhound from Atlanta to Flagstaff Az and back. It was awesome
Great video. I like the GMC scenic cruiser. Same transmission 4 speed double clutch. Your coach is great I wish I could ride with you once. Young person awesome.
Engine doesn't need rapped completely out, and such high RPMs aren't needed to grab another gear. You'll catch on to it eventually. After awhile you'll be able to float the gears without even using the clutch.
Run it up to the governor then shift quicker. I was your age when I started driving those and newer GMCS and on to the MCI, I have about 2 million miles in them, long retired now. Thanks for bringing back memories.
This is great! I'm watching in the UK and nearly the same age as your bus. It's great to see someone getting to grips with a crash-box - good job.
Very pretty bus I really enjoyed watching your video love the sound of the motor
So cool seeing and riding along this bus! Great explanation re: the non-synchro transmission and details when shifting. I recall seeing the school bus driver double clutch a GMC school bus, a 1964 or so. I respect the skill needed to drive this!
To assist in your gaining dexterity in double-clutching; learn to trust your ears and that DD!
In upshifting learn to shift as motor revs up not when you reach redline in any gear. There exists shift points within each gear range that once leaned make for seamless shifting! Imagine operators of that era could smoothly engage clutch and make shifts without moving passengers forward or backwards given the fluidity of their clutch and stick work!
Practice employing rhythmic timing and learn the shift points/ range via reading your tach!
Otherwise enjoy this essential classic! Any driver of that era will remember how taut those GMC transmissions were especially on both their 4107/4108 Buffalos. You needed to be spot on or you grinded gears or had to slow/stop and start again from 1st!
You have a good back window. Take care of it. They are getting really hard to find! Sounds good! We have a 1960 4104, 1947 3751 and a 1978 MC8.
Double clutching is a great way to start learning to shift these old transmissions. Once you get the hang of it you could actually do all the shifting without any clutch at all
This is so cool. Your grandfather would be so proud of you. I'm sure he would have gotten a thrill out of riding with you.
This is so interesting that you have an interest and fascination with old buses. Hope you are able to perserve some of these.
First of all your not an idiot a lucky young man wish I had the time to spend with you driving it that's what I learned on in 1976 I got over 1,000,000 miles with them GMC and MCI coaches I could show you some cool tricks at shifting them really smooth people would think your driving an automatic ,I mess the older busses wish I had a bought one just for historical purposes
You seem to be doing fine playing/Slipping the clutch while moving slowly . Just don’t overdo it because you can burn the clutch. Whenever possible keep it fully engaged when you want to move and disengaged while stationary that way you lessen the wear on the parts. Remember that it is not a baby buggy like most cars. Keep plenty of space ahead and don’t go too fast. Learn about braking and using compression to keep speed down and conserving brakes and air pressure on long or steep grades. Know where You are going and that You will have no problems negotiating narrow roads and parked cars. Don’t go down a road that You cannot back out of. Learn to use the mirrors to back up and always be careful for inattentive driver’s who are not watching for Your warning and turn signals. Many drivers drive too fast and are not looking or thinking ahead. Many lack professional driving skills but believe that speeding is skill. There will be time when You must overtake and pass slower vehicles of people who bunch up and may be daydreaming but always watch out for those who will pull out in front of You without being able to accelerate properly to match the speed of the faster traffic traffic they are merging into. Too many people are selfish drivers and inconsiderate of others. They may pull into you’re safety zone and brake suddenly because they are inconsiderate. Try to avoid excessive braking by anticipating the need for it and slowing or backing off on the throttle. Drivers of heavy trucks look ahead and slow when seeing red lights or green ones that may be getting ready to go yellow then red by slowing and not having to stop completely momentum can help you gain speed more quickly whereas stopping completely makes it harder to get with the flow of traffic.Make sure You are insured for friends riding along and no boozer’s . Even non driving ones can be problems.
Diesel engines have so much torque that if the engine rpm is increased while starting out from a standstill will prematurely wear out the clutch disc. What you were doing when you were backing out of the parking stall was correct.
Awesome. That's what I figured. thanks
What an awesome bus! I love those old beauties. There’s just something special about them. You did a great job driving it too. What a unique video. Thanks for the ride! 👍
Your bus is awesome. I love the sound of that Detroit Diesel. Your very lucky to have such a coach.
I drove these very buses in 1974. The transit system in Denver I worked for, condemned a private bus company that had several of these in their fleet. They had the two speed rear axles with a button on the shift lever. We ran them on the old company's bus routes. I used to double clutch the crap out of them. The District got rid of them as soon as new buses were delivered.
not jourñy
@@sharonbraselton4302 ??? Please explain.
just lightly hold the throttle as you shift slowly and let it suck the gear in. you will get it. old transmissions are fun to learn to shift fast. you will notice a half way point between neutral and fully into a gear, that half way point is the point you pause .
I'm not convinced he needs to rev it to redline for every downshift either, it's all about rev matching, so just rev slightly past where you need it, then it slots into gear as the engine speed decreases into the right range for the gear
you are right. its all about rev matching, And that is the idea behind what i say when i mention keepign your foot on the throttle. dont fully lift off the throttle because it causes the engine rpm to drop too low and now the gears may not wanna match up right. and the point and rpm will depend on what gear your in. its quite fun to learn your machines sweet spots.
When you get the speed of the transmission gear to match the speed of the engine output gear, You don't need to use the clutch at all. I had a failed clutch linkage one time and I left Leominster, Ma, and drove about 70 miles to the New York State Line on the Massachusetts Turnpike. I actually had to shut the engine off at the toll booths, and then restart while it was in gear after paying toll. I wouldn't recommend it but there may come a time when you don't have a way to clutch and It beats the crap out of sitting along the road for hours. You have to plan your stops way in advance and run up and down all the gears. With that screamin' 671 there is enough rpm differential to drop 2 gears per shift on a 10 speed, IF do it perfectly, but it's very do-able! Love the bus. Check relentlessly for a vendor to replace those windows. There are always lots of start up small businesses that make amazing products, and the internet is a great way of finding a place! Best of luck and keep the old girl running. Love to see more vids soon.
Double clutching time.I learned at ups in 78. Got to watch your tach.Nice old bus.You’re doing good!You have your Grands father spirit of driving.After a while ,you’ll won’t use the clutch .
Great video. And great demo of the double clutch. You are an authentic person.
Imagine the history that thing has seen or even been a part of.
Anyone else get a little worried when the camera fell over lol great video! Extremely entertaining and educational and I'm quite jealous, I'd love the chance to learn how to drive a beast like that!
Use to drive them when I was in my early 20's first job. FYI, if you lower your seat all the way down, and put a long shifter knob on there, you will find it much easier. Take a while to get used to the lowered seat but, it makes it so nice.
You’re doing okay. As others have said here, it’s not necessary to “rev the piss out of it” when down shifting. When you time is correctly you just have to blip the throttle. Other than that, for someone who is learning you’re doing really well.
Awesome! I had a 1960 Rambler that wasn't synced into first gear so I did some double clutching with that one.
Heh. Los Angeles Unified School District used to have a lot of Crown and Gillig school buses with a 6-71 mounted pancake-style in the middle, under the floor back in the day. Not hearing that sound anymore where I am is torture to me!
Oh, and Bus Grease Monkey shall be your new best friend BTW. You will not regret it one bit
Very cool bus and impressive knowledge on how to operate it and drive a non-synchronized manual. Not too many guys (especially as young as you are) have that kind of knowledge. Looking forward to more posts!
Two things.
1. Great video.
2. My grandpa passed on a 1970 C10 Chevy after he passed away. Both my mother and I grew up in that truck. He bought it in...I believe 72. The first guy who owned it thought it was a good idea to build his own transmission and I have to drive that damn truck the same way you drive this bus. My grandpa never replaced the transmission either so I had to learn how to do it. I know next to nothing about it and when I do the rebuild, it's definitely going byebye.
Nice bus...... Adams family theme song will help you when double clutching........
Be safe
I love the various angles you captured during the filming of your video. Great content!
I'm looking forward to seeing this video. I drove busses long haul for 43 years for a very large company. I've been in just about every province and state every where. I rarely double clutched and my shifts are always silky smooth with two fingers on the stick. I partial clutch. If you'd like to see how you partial clutch watch my trucking video shifting a 13 speed Peterbilt 379. See Stern Drive with Doug Stern and you too can shift like a pro as well. Let me know how it goes. Safe travels!
that journy budß
Nothing better than a head-mount GoPro to make viewers seasick.
Oh my gosh the bus is my thing man!!! Love the bus. I am totally blind and a business owner. I have a thing about buses. That is my mode of transportation. Yes. I love trains but there is something about the bus that is just so awesome. I was going to say just hearing all this is really amazing and the buses from yesterday year were very difficult. Those were the days when the bus driver had to practically hug the wheel. And I have heard that driving these monsters is very difficult. Just like cars back in the day. Even a car was very difficult to drive. I really marvel at this just the way you are operating this beast is something else man. I could feel it. It definitely sounds complicated. Things that the modern day buses don’t need to worry about. Still having to bee careful in a huge bus today hahaha. But the steering wheel is smaller and there is power steering in the wheel these days to make it much easier to turn not like back then. There is something about buses that I really am attracted to. I had an hour and a half to preschool and an hour and a half back so I guess you could see why I love the bus. And not to mention that was my first bus ride. Both ways an hour and a half their to school and hour and a half years ago. Then of course as I got older riding buses to school of course bussing to school was not that long and now as an adult a business owner I still take buses to this day. My commutes can bee from short to over 3 and a half hours long depending where I am working. Even in my daily activities buses are a part of my day. It is something so mundane that we all do we don’t even think about it but the bus is a very important part of our day. Cause that is what moves me around the city and not just me others as well. Pretty awesome for your first time sounds like driving this monster. I am always in awe of those who drive even the modern day bus like what we ride today. It takes a certain person to drive a bus you have to have the personality for this and the attitude for this. Not everyone can do that.❤😂
You’re overrevving on your downshifts. Listen to the highest rpm and the rpm where the downshift actually engages. They are too far apart. Just a bit of advice
As for the upshift double clutch grinding. Dont put the clutch all the way in, it has a brake and will put everything way out of sync. Try clutch in 3/4’s shift to neutral clutch out then clutch in 3/4’s again and upshift. That should smooth it out.
Also look into floating gears like in a semi. You only need the clutch from a dead stop to get moving, then at the correct rpm the stick can fall into the next up gear without clutching
Cool I’ll give all this a try thank you
@CattleRustler - PD4104s like this one do NOT have a clutch brake, never have, never will. Transmission/clutch assembly is not designed for one.
@@RustySax1949 Yep. Upon further review, this does not have a clutch brake
I remember when these buses were everywhere on interstate highways in the New York Tri-state Area. What a great vehicle to own. 👍
Hi Ross, loved watching this video. Bob Smith
I put probably 500K miles on 4104s. Best GM highway coach ever built. Everything that came after had problems.
Good view of the visor!!
@busgreasemonkey should be your new best friend.
On most manual semi-s usually you do not need to double-clutch just "feather" the accelerator to get it out of a gear or get it into next...of course sometimes you need it a bit...
The technique for shifting is to hold it at the gate with light pressure "3 finger" and when the rev matches then it will go in...
One BIG mistake with Double Clutching is pushing the Pedal too far down . Advice from a Retired Trucker .
Push it down into the " Take-Up " Zone , so that it is Slippy and " Feel " your way between gears . No force needed , you will feel it coming good .
After you get used to it you may even Stop using the clutch and " Float " the gears . That will happen once you Know the Ratios .
If there is no Tachometer , the Speedo tells you what gear you should be in . There may even be Marks on the Dial to help .
Lovely Old Bus .
In Australia you need an HR (Heavy Rigid) drivers licence to drive that and possibly a Medical review.
Tip. Engine speed vs Road speed is road of thumb for shifting.
To help shift, "cheat the stick". That is to apply a little pressure on the shifter and "shift with your foot" when you clutch. Also, use a 1-2 motion pausing slightly in neutral.
Bob Monger is 100% correct. I was gonna make same suggestion. You don't even need to use clutch except when you come to a stop. Upshifting put little pressure on stick about 2100 rpm's then take foot off throttle, then move stick to next gear and it should slide in at about 1900rpm's. Also drain air tanks and add alcohol in winter. Same with fuel in winter, add anti gel. WOW, you got alot to learn but your gonna have lots of fun especially if you like mechanical work. Very best of luck to ya. Kinda wish you were near me, I would come and fix(play)with that bus with you. Enjoy.✌️out
Good job with this video, cool to see a young guy interested in these old school technology machinery.
Nice bus man! I’m not certain because there could be combo systems out there…but I’m pretty sure your air suspension is no longer self leveling, those black knobs under the gauges are manual valves for each corner. Push or pull to add or release air. Again not certain but pretty sure haha. Bus did look very low when you drove away, typical bag pressure should be nearer to 80lbs than 40 when you’re on the road in my experience.
As for shifting, with my 6-71 and 4-speed I find double clutching every shift up or down is faster and smoother than the “patient” way. You are doing good going up to the governor every time before shifting, thats the only way these old two stroke diesels will stay cool. Don’t be afraid of rpms!
Yep, I've been told RPMs are your friend on the 2-stroke diesel. I think you may be right the rear end looks pretty dang low. I was told by one of my grandpa's friends (an expert diesel mechanic who drove with him to truck shows) she was self-leveling. You're right the black knobs are to add and remove air manually but it's my understanding that is just an option and she will eventually level out...which I've found to be true
@@RossTheBuilder how much air is in your bags when you're driving. I just rewatched and man o man you're bouncing around a lot...unless those roads are way worse than they look!!
This is awesome, thanks for sharing this with us, looking forward to part 2.
Back in 1981-82 I was at the Word of Life Bible Institute, up in the Adirondacks in, NY State. They had a travelling student choir, and they had three old buses they used for that. They had a 4106, and two 4104s. They were old back then, but to me they looked very modern. I was not in that choir, so never rode in them. A few years later I remember driving my grandfather's farm truck, which was a 1947 Studebaker with a 4-speed unsynchronized transmission. My Dad warned me about it ahead of time, and I had to teach myself double-clutching, which was fine.
Like others have said BUS GREASEMONKEY is very good place to get advice and work done
I appreciate your interest in this old bird.
Great video but i was hoping for a quick walk thru the bus. To show her creature comforts Maybe next time. They are nerve racking enough with automatic shifting, So hats off on job well done...
Sure thing. I'm making a part 2 shortly with more of a tour
Awesome bus. I’m not sure if this applies to buses but I was told not to downshift when slowing down in a manual. Reason being is that using the drivetrain to slow down the vehicle is pretty hard on the transmission and clutch. Brakes are cheap and easy to replace. Would love to drive one of these one day.
You have been told very wrong things. During engine braking, you have exactly the same forces as when you're accelerating, just in the opposite direction. There is absolutely no harm in engine braking.
In cars and on bikes, you don't need to conciously engine brake - just keep it in gear, downshift when you hit 1500ish RPM. All the rest of the deceleration you need, you do with your brakes. Usually you don't shift down to first if you're coming to a stop.
The exception is when you go down grades. In this case, you shift down to whatever gear you need to not increase your speed (but also not go too slow). Only when you run out of engine braking, you start working the brakes. It is completely normal to have your engine screaming at 75% of redline when going down a grade. This is even more important on cars with an automatic transmission! Those low/1/2/3 settings are there for a reason. In D, an automatic pretty much does not have any engine braking, you have to shift down on a down grade to avoid cooking your brakes and losing brake power.
shifting will become second nature after a while , you won't even consciously think about it . drove that same engine (we called 'em 238s) w/10 speeds , 20k empty/50k loaded for years . this might help downshifting till you learn by ear : mark top speed in 1st , 2nd , 3rd on speedo . for example let's say top speed in 3rd is 45 mph . you're in 4th , she pulls down near 45 , clutch pedal in , neutral and hold throttle wide open w/clutch out , clutch in and get 3rd , clutch out (all relatively quickly) . fairly level ground example , compensate for steepness of hill .
I was born in 1959 Argentina. I remembered to see some bus on the road.
Despite it's age. It is a great bus and you drive it very well.
Love that BUS!!
But you're revving so high my friend!!
Remember it's a diesel engine!! Diesel engine runs at low rpm's so 1500 is the right rpm for you to shift!
Good luck
Diesel indeed but a 2-stroke diesel. They absolutely love RPM. It’s really bad to lug a 2 stroke detroit in low rpm’s. Makes it fun to drive!
@Kim Ro Woon - When he hit's the governor in 1st gear, the engine's only turning 2100 rpm - it just sounds so much faster because it's a two-stroke design. 1500 is ok for a four-stroke engine, but not these Detroits.
Yes dead throttle starts also that's the 671 Detroit we had them in the crown buses tell the 90's
I am not exactly sure what my bags run at but my air system runs around 115 pounds. I didnt think the bags would be so low. Putting in a back up camera from ebay is not hard and quite necessary. Just need 12 volts and run a long cable to the back. Put one in my bus - 45 feet. i actually installed a second one. One for looking back and one for looking down to get close when going into camp sites. Saves me having the wife on the phone behind me all the time and acts as a rear view mirror when going down the highway. I went with the cables as I heard wireless can be not so good on a long bus. My picture is always crystal clear.
You ask about double clutching on the up shifts. The thing is that once the gearbox oil is up to normal running temperature you might need to double clutch even then and also do it a little quicker.
You're grandfather is damn proud of you dude! Awesome!
Good thing that old Detroit is forgiving.
Dude I totally recognize the area you were driving around in. Westborough/Southborough... I live close by.
Aah! Your grandad was Dr. Bill's brother, correct? Much like mine, your last name isn't exactly Smith or Johnson, lol, so it sticks in one's memory. I do believe I met Jerry at ATHS Syracuse or Macungie quite a few years back. Dr. Bill and his Mack will not soon be forgotten, small world. My condolences for your loss.
Yes! Dr. Bill’s brother! He made it to every ATHS show for a while. Small world!
@@RossTheBuilder So sorry to hear of your Grandad's passing a few years ago, I hope the driver was jailed. Dr. Bill was a legend in the ATHS and is talked about daily on Mack forums to this day. What became of his W? You could and should do a piece on both of them, they led very storied lives. The tale of the Jersey turnpike brick disaster was similar to a load of asphalt I dumped in the wrong place once, back when I just got my CDL and lied to a paving company to get a job, had to shovel it back in by hand. Though most was tossed into the woods, lol. Is the bus in Colorado or Mass.? I know plenty of folks that'd be happy to help you sort it out. Sounds like the regulator isn't letting pressure build fast enough. Let me know, I'm in NY. My Uncle Bonesy knew Dr. Bill very well, Mack guys, lol.
The Bus and I are in MA. That's a great idea. My gramps Jerry and I, before he passed, would exchange emails during the early stages of COVID and he told me a few really good trucking stories (including that Jersey turnpike one!). You're right, a write-up would be a great idea. I've got a blog to write up some of Jerry's trucking stories and I'll see what I can find on Bill. I'm definitely in way over my head with this Bus and, and although I've got all the service manuals, I'm no diesel or bus mechanic. I, however, definitely have the 'gearhead' gene and will do my best to take care of the bus.
I'm all ears for people that would be willing to help me sort out issues with the Bus. I'm in college and I fear I may not find the time to give the old girl the attention she deserves.
@@RossTheBuilder You'll be fine, just reach out to the community and I guarantee you'll have more than enough hands ready, willing and able to guide you. Good talking to ya, Ross.
I would absolutely love to see more videos like this one!
Double-clutching is great fun, once you've got the hang of it.
She sounds sweet!
"Granny shifting, not double clutching like you should!" Sorry, I just had too say it. Anyways, great video.
The brakes are there to use . Do be afraid to use them ,
The best advice ever, from an old-timer Bus Operator: Go Slow, and use your Mirrors.
Try shifting WITHOUT the clutch, it’s usually a lot easier on those old transmissions. Also, make certain you have enough oil in the transmission, and that the oil is CLEAN. No need to redline on shifts, either, up or down. You can upshift just after the engine starts to pull, which on the old Jimmies is usually around 1600. Downshift when it starts to lug. Practice will bring perfection!
I was thinking the same. For me, all of the trucks i drove with unssync i neber use the clutch...
Yea he's all over the road with that transmission, very unnatural. Don't need the clutch...
Powered by General Motors,(6-71) that's a engine with 6 cylinder's in line bore at (71) cubic inches per cylinder ,city greyhounds for interstate use ,used a (8v-71) again it's 71 cubic inches with a 8 cylinder Vee block
This is awesome, would love to have a go driving something like this.