Vegas ATC GETS ANGRY WITH PILOTS during Extreme Weather
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- Опубликовано: 27 авг 2024
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Spirit needs to know their sequence. After 10 minutes, they charge every passenger with a $5 USD "Airport Sightseeing Tour" fee.
Probably already had a restart fee for both engines.
LOL of the day!
After 30 minutes they charge a "last minute booking" extra flight ticket for being redirected to another airport.
Seriously Spirit just put a little extra fuel in the tank...
Lol
Stop giving them ideas... Spirit would do this
That sounds like a supervisor that piped up "NO, WERE NOT DOING THAT" - the initial ATC seemed pretty chill.
Ya voice was a lil different for sure
I thought it was the opposite, but we'll never know!
It was probably a trainer. Supervisors aren't plugged in and able to override working controllers at a moments notice.
@@amaurea3000 Whoever it was, he needs to find a different job where he can be a dick and nobody will care. Maybe run for Congress.
Definitely a trainer, and definitely a trainer who is out of line and needs to be reprimanded.
So for some context. I was on frequency on this day. Weather off the departure end of 8L caused the airport to have to turn around. These turn around take time, stopping departures, creating a backlog. That slows down departures, creating a further backlog.
Pilots have a minimum amount of fuel we have have at takeoff, and we can't takeoff with less than this. There are a couple of dispatcher tricks we can use to lower that number a bit. But if we had a 30 minute taxi planned and now the taxi time is 45 minutes, or an hour, due to an unexpected delay, its very easy to get close to this number.
We can shut down one engine, if we need to move. Or both if we don't. But the engines have warm up times before we can take off we need to be aware of.
I say all that to say, knowing the sequence helps us know how long we are going to be delayed. We use that to weigh all these and decide when to start one or both engines, communicate with the company and passengers (because after so long we have to offer service).
And yes, a few minutes might make the difference between going to the gate or being able to take off. If I know I won't be able to go, I'll go back to the gate. These delays are dynamic.
That totally makes sense. From a controller perspective it's very hard to estimate departure times especially when it's very busy and you have weather affecting the operation. Also approach control is just gonna keep sending you arrivals with close to minimum spacing so the controller is only focused on hitting all his departure gaps and ensuring runway and departure separation. An aircraft that's 4th in line is almost impossible to judge when they will depart because I likely can't see or am even talking the arrivals that they will depart between. We also are not nearly as familiar with engine start times/ warm times etc. Him asking if he should start 1 or 2 engines is very much outside of what we should be telling a pilot to do because we don't have a full grasp of the consequences of either action.
@@goldboy3505 Sequence position is not the same as time. No one expects to know the exact time for departure, but knowing where they are in the sequence goes a long way towards saving fuel.
@@goldboy3505 so he should of said it like that cordially, instead of being a freaking whiny snarky bitch about it.
Yes but similarly if the weather is chaning all the time and moving around it's impossible for a controller to give a wrote set of 10 aircraft that are going to depart in the next order (and if he did if he had to deviate from it for any reason he'd spend ages arguing with the other pilots) so whilst some warning might be possible (Which he was doing) asking for the next 10 is not going to happen and is unreasonable.
@@tomriley5790 it happens frequently. We all understand things change.
I had a weather delay last night we were within 200 lbs of our minimum departure fuel after an hour 1:20 delay on the ground (this after over 2 hours delay at the ramp). Towards the end of the runway with parallel taxiway with a line of aircraft on both. We asked for our sequence, she didn't know, got back to us a couple minutes later and told us #5 behind united on our right. Gave us just the right time to get our passengers to their destination.
All of us are in the business of moving people from place to place. I've learned its easy for controllers to forget the human element in this picture. Much harder when 200 people are sitting behind you. And that's much easier than walking about those 200 people.
It sounds like the controller is not trying to be a hard asa, he's just overwhelmed. He has to make sure he has proper separation with the airborne aircraft, he has a lot of aircraft waiting on him to depart but they have to be careful with the weather. The controller knows that the longer they wait for weather the longer his backlog of aircraft will be. Then he probably has supervisors and/or tracon trying to talk to him. It can get stressful and overwhelming, and he just can't handle unnecessary comms with the aircraft, hence the outburst. Once things calm down a little bit and he has a free moment, he's able to give information to the pilots that need it
That wasn't an outburst.
Which he did for 1808 when he had a moment. Nice.
I agree mostly except for the "unnecessary comms" part. Having enough fuel is kinda important and planes going back to the gate or spinning up their engines too late won't make the queue go faster either.
One word. professionalism. You don't get to act out because you're "overwhelmed". Poise and composure is imperative, both for atc and pilots.
@@JonDoe-007 and the controller wasn’t unprofessional. He needed the pilot to shut up and let him do his job. I’ve been treated far worse for far less by ATC.
Dispatcher at a major airline here in the US...KLAS has had 01L/19R closed since early april affecting arrival/departure rates and when the winds start gusting to the point where the 26's shut down (which seems to be almost daily) its a guarantee for GDP's/Departure Delays. 30 min of taxi fuel is the bare minimum at this point.
Thanks for the input!
Thanks for sharing!
Interesting insight into the pilot/atc frustration
I thought you guys always plan for duel-engine and apu running taxi times plus delays.
@@pk7549 We do...the flight planning software uses historical data to give us an average taxi fuel out of las...470 pounds lets say... however with the delays recently I've been manually increasing to 1000 pounds (roughly 30 min in the aircraft type we fly. This increase is accounting for delays) and that 30 min is with both engines running plus apu. However you can get more taxi time running single engine.
I happened to be flying out of Vegas that day and can tell you it was messy. I heard most of the various conversations about where your place is in line. Its no doubt that ATC was stressed. Construction had one of the runways closed, so ALL departures were being funneled to one runway. It was a very windy ALL day with gusts to 40. It was a heavy traffic volume type of day as there were several sporting events that happened along with EDC and such over the weekend. There were already 1 hour delays leaving Vegas. I remember counting over 20 airplanes in line for takeoff while I was waiting to taxi out. I was fortunate that I was able to shut down to conserve fuel, as I was over a hour and a half late departing to my destination. What caused the biggest problem was that there was a wind shift and the runway configuration changed. So if you were number 4 for takeoff and they swapped runways you went from number 4 to number 20 for takeoff. Cant blame people asking what their sequence is. I returned 2 hours later and there was still 15 airplanes waiting to take off from one runway.
Controllers will often advise pilots to shut down engines for an extended delay. Good controllers will also advise when to start them up again for proper sequencing.
Sounds like he was the only one handling 4 runways. Gets pretty intense and you don't have time to be worrying about pilots fuel on the ground
Negative, I'm not shutting down on active until I know for sure if I'm turning off the taxiway on restarting. It's not a huge deal but ATC need to keep their end up of situational awareness for us. I'll shut down, if I can have an idea of what is going on and what to expect. Otherwise I'll unfortunately make life difficult for them getting a runway change or having to get a fuel top up because reality.
@@goodshipkaraboudjanwhy are you shutting down? Take more fuel for crying out loud.
"Tower, could you provide the next 10 departures, arrivals, and all taxiing sequences so that we can be prepared? Also, please provide a proof for the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus in your spare moment. And, can I get a cup of coffee, please? Thanks!"
Light skim milk, half pack of Stevia.
@@wintercame Possible Commenter deviation. Please let me know when you're ready to copy the number.
Shirley you can't be serious
@@joshnaudi 😆
@@SomeRandomGuy789 I am serious, and don't call me Shirley. 😛
Everybody has those moments where they are just a bit overwhelmed and someone asks a question at just the wrong time.
. There is a difference between just a regular person doing regular things and a supposed professional who is supposed to keep their calm and assist pilots. Ive had low level customer service jobs as a young kid who would've fired me if I spoke half as harsh like this to a customer. Speaking like this to pilots, whether it appears to or not, increases their stress hormones and can lead to mistakes which could cause an accident. Fire the ATC controller now, he is a danger and unfit to be in the position.
@@iwontreplybacklol7481That controller's main responsibility is to keep everybody safe. If workload allows, he is to assist pilots with administrative / logistic information. If not, not.
@@BlueSkyUp_EU losing their cool with pilots is nit keeping them or the passengers on board safe.
@@iwontreplybacklol7481 As you can hear in this audio, that controller was handling all the arrivals and all the departures. Takeoff and landing are the most critical parts of the flight, when most incidents / accidents / crushes happen. The controller couldn't prioritize non critical requests over that.
@@BlueSkyUp_EU making excising doesn't make it right....
ATC was correct and I don’t describe his response as “ANGRY”
Sharp, but not angry.
lol clickbait :D
stern not angry
Definitely snapped at the request, angry is a fair description.
I just found out (via Google) that anger & irritate are synonyms 🤣 Was trying to find something in between. Even vexed means the same thing. Everyone's right on this one 😂
ATC has more important things to do than give the sequence to nervous pilots. They should have done their fuel planning better... It's a Class Bravo airport with bad weather inbound, you need to plan for delays.
It’s spirit. They don’t just charge customers for everything extra they probably also charge their own pilots for requesting extra fuel than what their dispatchers approved 😅
There's a lot more to fuel planning than just planning for delays. ATC plays a big part in it.
@@brandonadams7837 probably
@@pk7549 Such as what example pls. Appreciate.
@Winter Came in cases like this, atc can and will assign re-routes, sometimes longer and lower altitudes to minimize center congestion. All this will change the required fuel. Any extra fuel saved on the ground will determine if the flight can be made safely or not. Atc plays a big part in this, coordinating with the pilots.
Hey, getting out of Vegas is always a roll of the dice.
lol well played
"list the next 10 departures"?? I'd say the controller's outburst was quite justified.
Controllers do it all the time
@@SEAAviatornot at busy class bravo airports like at LAS they don’t. I don’t think you understand the context of the video. They had weather moving across the field which means different controllers in the tower are working with the TRACON and Los Angeles center for reroutes and clearances all while taxiing a sequence of probably 20+ aircraft around for a runway reconfiguration. All while local is issuing landing/takeoff clearances for the ones just lucky enough to get out. So yes, reading a sequence of the next 10 departures was definitely unreasonable in this case. Could they maybe do it during normal ops? Sure but even then that would be a better suited question for the ground controller. Local only works active runways and taxiways between the parallels.
If you know there's delays, take extra fuel
It's not that simple, unfortunately, in this era of airlines being run by accountants instead of aviators. It is also not uncommon to find out about the delay after you've already taxied out. It's usually not a problem when you're working with experienced, well staffed ATC. I can't tell you how many times I've heard ATL tower voluntarily do exactly what this pilot asked for.
@@robcourtney6332 yup and we are talking about Spirit here...even more applicable to low fares airlines
@@Tavarish21 This is type of stuff that makes me afraid to fly commercial.
Get married and see how spending all the money u want works Think of it like that when as pilots when we want extra gas..👨🏽✈️🤦🏾♂️
Sprit is now charging xtra for a bowel movement vs urine only...
Was that the supervisor came on air for that? The voices sounded different. First controller was busy working and was just ignoring the sequencing questions he couldn't answer. Then later he did end up telling 1808 his sequence and didn't seem upset at all. I think the dressing down in the middle was from a sup.
Same guy
Instructor. Supervisors aren't plugged in.
Yep, different voice.
Spirit of Robert Stack maybe; off-mic the spirit of Lloyd Bridges indicates it was a bad day to quit amphetamines.
@@markmaki4460 anyone check in on Leon?
I believe they had just turned the airport around prior to when the video starts, so that also affected the departures
Vegas has been a pain in the ass the last couple weeks. Any kind of weather in it all goes down hill kind of like LGA/EWR/JFK. It’s always speed up, slow down, speed up, 15 left for in trail.
@@chucksneed3339 yup new to flying out west. Its expected in the South and out east. Guess west coasters cant handle any weather.
ATC was firm but not angry. They had a heavy workload and an annoying customer. It didn’t escalate. Good work ATC.
Thats like a mother telling her toddler “No Billy, you wait for your cookie just like all the other children!”😂
That "understood!" from the pilot sounds more like a "I'm filing a report" haha
Hope he did! Unacceptable behavior from a controller. It is dangerous to all souls aboard that aircraft by stressing out a pilot.
usually those reports get lost and nothing will happen
You're not a real pilot, are you?@@iwontreplybacklol7481
@@iwontreplybacklol7481cut it out. LOL. Nobody was put in danger.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 your opinion ain't fact
This fuel situation is the fault of the airlines themselves, not the controller. The airlines want the aircraft flying with the legal MINIMUM of fuel to save weight, therefore money. This is money driven, not the controller's fault.
Profit over safety does not take precedence in fuel planning.
Exactly. People commenting here have no idea how things work
I've read about enough accidents & incidents to know that profits may trump safety for at least some airlines if they feel they can get away with it.
@Donald Thomas can you share one? Just curious.
@@pk7549 Curious like a Cheshire cat. 20 or so years ago, Alaskan Airlines had whistleblowers fired for complaining about faulty maintenance procedures. This all lead to a crash. During the problems on the flight, the pilots contacted their dispatch, who REMINDED the pilots that diverting to LA would cause over an hour delay and mess with their schedule. BUT of course, no pressure was meant by Dispatch's statement.
I remember ValueJet. For years, in the 90s I think, Valuejet had large growth, large numbers of overshoots, accidents, maintenance failures, all leading to the Everglades crash. The systemic greed and corruption of FAA galvanized the public. Under the pressure, Congress changed the FAA's "Dual Mandate". Changed the wording anyway. For all the good it did. Inspectors are still cozy with airline reps and much money is spent to keep these inspectors happy.
More recently Boeing MAX crashes in Indonesia and Ethiopia. In the purchase contracts, pilots were not required any updated training. If pilots were to need training on the new MAX jets, Boeing would have to pay a bunch per aircraft to the airline. So they were all trying to avoid new training for the new planes. I also think Southwest got in trouble for having foreign bought planes in use without having them inspected for airworthiness. Some FAA ppl got fired I think.
These are all just things I remember from my lifetime as a non-pilot who just likes to watch Mayday, and other such shows.
There was a bird strike at Stockholm Arlanda today, could you find the recordings and post them? Don't know airline or flightnumber unfortunately but it was departing Stockholm and heading to the US so I think it's either Delta or SAS (Scandinavian airlines).
Another ATC vs Pilots. Tower was in the right here, they had weather in trail and once planes depart ahead of each other the sequence can change. Pilots need to haul extra fuel for long delays
The ATC equivelant of kids in the back seat asking if we are thete yet...
EXACTLY!!!!
I think the controller was just irritated not angry. Angry is when you get personal with the pilot or you want to send a pilot that special phone number. There’s bad weather and a bunch of planes waiting. We all turn into General Patton at times.
It is what it is. If you don’t have enough fuel when you finally get clearance, then you have to go back to the gate. They think the tower has ESP. You’ll go when it’s safe to do so.
ATC was correct. They are busy and do not have to spout off the sequence of the next 10 flights upon request from one anxious pilot.
yup
ATC was being a prick for no reason, I’d just sit there with engines shut down and make it his problem when he needs you to move and you can’t…
Sounds like first controller is training and the trainer stepped in to keep the pilots off the frequency with useless transmissions.. love it
Meanwhile in Europe and other smart countries we use Computed TakeOff Time (CTOT) exactly to mitigate this and avoid waste of fuel. USA used the be ahead of the rest of the world when it came to aviation but between stupid procedures and terrible RT they have fallen way behind to many others. They really need to do something about this, its embarrassing
You have computers that can perfectly predict weather?
Can you list the next 10 departures? lol come on dude I don’t think he’d even do that if it was sunny
there are airports that will 100% give the next 10 departures their sequence if it's not already obvious based on a single lineup.
I've heard both JFK and LGA do it in bad weather situations
@@pedrovelez6518 I’ve heard LAS not do it..
Should have asked for the Lottery numbers as well! .-)
Actually yes, it is very common.
Giving a sequence like you’re in control of the factors that affect that sequence is an invitation to prompt a lot of pissed off pilots complaining that you gave a sequence and now it’s not right anymore and it’s your fault and blah blah blah.
Nothing like Just enough Fuel load to make ones day better
No idea why the supervisor or trainer stepped in. It’s a question every single one of us is wondering. Something when I was based out of DFW they’d routinely do. They’d list off the sequence to keep everyone in the loop. Something that made our jobs and theirs easier. Figuring out when to start the second motor. For my carrier out of Vegas it’s not an issue since we can always pack on plenty of delay and taxi fuel. But for someone like spirit who’s flying a max capacity airbus possibly all the way out to the north east or down to Mexico they might be tight on gas and it’s definitely important to not be sitting there with two motors turning burning 3,600 lbs of gas an hour.
Because the controller was already task saturated and adding more to that, even if they are legitimate and justified questions, isn’t helping.
This happens pretty often in many high stress time constrained situations. I’ve certainly found myself on both sides many times.
You just have to keep in mind that it’s not personal and you all want the same goal.
Thx for this.. sometimes u just gotta wait to flip the meat. Patience is a beast... you know... they have all the power them boys up dere in dat der tower & I'll go when when when they sprinkle some of that dust they hold onto so tightly at night and squawk over the box and say it's my turn and make Everything All right! Now back to my meat.. 🐢
Vegas is always a mess. the line waiting to depart is longer than a checkout line in Target on Black Friday.
Depriving a pilot of crucial flight planning info is a violation of interference with a crewmember duty
It's not ATC's job to plan pilot hours or fuel loads. These are the pilots' issues. They help out as much as they can, but he's too busy to do that.
Can you get the recording and make a video of the A330 from TAP in JFK on 26 May? Birdstrike on slammer #2 and return with over weight landing. Truly appreciate!
Spirit 1808: "Tower we fell a little short on baggage fees so we could only take on enough fuel for 9 planes in front of us."
It's not the pilots' fault that the beancounters plan for minimum allowable fuel...
The request was a tad excessive. I have never seen an issue unless it is really chaotic asking for an estimate where a specific plane was in the sequence especially if they say they are trying to conserve taxi fuel.
I wonder if the pilots' reaction is driven by corporate demands of Spirit airlines? In their quest to cut costs to the bone, they probably direct the pilots to carry less fuel than other airlines (while still being above the legal requirements).
Its called safety, they just want to make sure they have ample fuel left to get their destination and reserve for beyond that. Didnt know safety was an inconvenience for ATC. Interesting
It’s not about safety. The pilot is just trying to avoid the hassle of going back to the gate to refuel.
What is about safety is the controller’s workload during a stressful situation, and dealing with non essential questions is actually unsafe behavior, which is why the supervisor stepped in at the end there.
@@DeltaEntropy sorry to say, the stress level of a pilot is of more importance than a controller, cut and dry.
@@iwontreplybacklol7481 it’s not actually… especially since the pilots are on the ground and the controller’s controlling aircraft in the air…
Aircraft in flight take precedence over ground aircraft 100% of the time.
@@DeltaEntropy ATC controllers at large airports like this dont control ground AND in flight aircraft at the same time.
I can certainly understand why spiritwings wants to ask about starting back up and their own sequencing but why when they are told they are fourth do they suddenly want a list of the next 10?
Surely those other 6 afterwards in a 10 plane list (6 because it would be those 6 planes after spirtwings) could have asked for or maybe were already shut down and could ask atc themselves if takeoff fuel load minimums was a concern or if they were shutdown and wondering about startup.
Not needing a pilot who already knew where they themselves stood to get them a next 10 list.
That was a different spirit plane.
If you are cutting your fuel that close? I'm a never setting foot on a Spirit flight !
Controller wasn't angry - and I can understand the controller here - it's like hearding school children asking him to list the next 10 departures is not going to happen as he doesn't know at that point what they are going to be, he can't know how much time it's going to take for each departure and asking him to do the fuel management for the pilots who've taken minimal fuel is just not on, he can probably warn the next 4/5 but beyond that harder.
I just think that both ATC and the pilots answer to different people. The managers they answer to are most likely to blame. They're pressured to perform in conflicting situations. ATC needs to get planes moving and pilots need to save fuel. I say put whoever is in charge on the radio and make THEM make the call.
Its called a Conga Line, Cha Cha Cha. . .
When did ATC become responsible for filling Aircraft with enough fuel.. OH WAIT they ARENT
One of the comments said they'd been sitting on the tarmac for quite awhile. I mean, one of them turned both engines off. So they must have been there a hot minute.
@@tw8916 Yep. Something that was obvious to the airlines when they started the engines to begin with. It isn't up to ATC to monitor their fuel load, ATC only needs to be concerned with getting them out safely.
@@tvideo1189 Well, primary duty is safety but "expeditious flow of traffic" is secondary so the pilots do need a heads-up before it's their turn in order to prevent further delays.
The tower is 100 percent right here! Good on that dude.
It was an unprofessional response to a question. He could have just said please hold or no. It also sounds like someone else in the tower corrected his response that was a very quick change in tone when he gave Spirit their position a few seconds later.
@@paulshields2220 the "angry" response was not from the same controller speaking throughout the video. It's a different voice.
You don't fly professionally and it shows
@@smudent2010 I don't even fly civilianally. Not going through all that crap. It used to be fun. But yes, the tower is 100 percent right. That's just common sense.
Some pilots just have no sense and put unnecessary pressure to controllers. I think the tower is right there.
Sounds to me like the pilot was practicing Einstein's definition of insanity by asking the same thing over and over again and expecting a different response.
"“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”. Probably not actually uttered by Einstein but that's the general attribution correct or not.
I wonder if he would have asked JFK Tower to rattle off the next 10 in sequence. That I would pay to hear
Another comment actually said JFK might, especially with bad weather
It’s always the controllers causing all the bullshit
I believe it was NY where I have heard ATC call out the sequence of departures.. Yes it is helpful, and I don’t understand why ATC can’t or won’t call it out.
When ATC is dealing with weather problems it isn't their concern or requirement to call the sequence. The airline company is at fault for requiring flights just have the legal MINIMUM of fuel to save money. This is money driven, not ATC's fault.
NY does it best. They understand the concept of how delays and re-routes affect fuel.
Most tower controllers will do this when there are delays. If they don't you can ask and they may or may not have your sequence. You just don't want to keep badgering like the spirit guy did. If you get to the threshold and you don't have min-takeoff fuel, you return to the gate. It's really not that big of a deal!
Weather changes everything.....get some patience. ATC has to keep everyone safe.
Well if the airlines would let pilots carry extra for just these type of situations instead of the bare minimum to make the trip, they wouldn't have these problems in the first place
I can’t speak for all but my company does…up to 2000 additional pounds of fuel before the requirement to contact dispatch.
@@stevenpayne3707 ok I'm not a pilot but I am curious, how much flying time does an additional 2000 lbs give you?
Roughly 25 minutes on an A319/320…can’t speak for other types. On a heavy 747 at take off thrust roughly 5 minutes or less.
@@stevenpayne370725 min at cruise, I’m sure 2000 lbs is over an hour while sitting on a taxi way.
It wasn't that bad. Both communicated and it's just wasn't in the best interest for both. I'm sure it all worked out
He definitely sounds a little annoyed, but I wouldn't call him all-caps ANGRY.
Just another friendly reminder to never fly spirit
Seems like he’s in the wrong occupation. Yes it is a stressful job, and not everyone is cut out for it. Hope a supervisor hears him and either orders retraining or a new job for him. Cause he can’t handle the stress. Period
He’s training. He was doing fine.
Honestly sounds to me like the pilot is trying to tell the controller how to do their job. The controller has already said they're having to deal with weather on the field, and the pilot is not helping.
I understand pilots don't want to waste fuel with their engines running, and getting any plane engine running isn't simple, but it's not going to be as difficult as trying to make sure dozens of planes aren't just idling.
Ah!
I don’t know why everybody is upset, I get paid by the hour. If I have to go back to the gate for more gas, that means someone else has to do my next turn.
If you're sitting on the ground with rain blasting your windscreen, other pilots taking off and landing in the soup, maybe don't immediately press Tower for more info on a question about your scheduled which was just politely put aside for a moment. Some pilots though, they think they're the cats' ass.
Military Test Pilot
The Cats' Ass
Always remember who came first, the pilot or the controller.
The egg
For how annoying that pilot was being he was chill. He said no. Build a bridge and get over it
"Extreme weather" in Vegas... what does that even mean... extra sun that day?
It’s funny how people are complaining and making fun of spirit and on the other side , their planes are always full !!!
Pilots have to know their sequence all the time !
This is not related to spirit
#197 Vegas baby!
ATC's job is not to tell people the lineup. as a pilot you can see the big jets all lined up,, so you know when you are next and when you need to move up. if you dont have the fuel, go get some.
That only works if there's people lined up for 1 runway sure on 1 taxiways. Adding crossing runways, multiple taxiways and the pilots have no clue what sequence they're in.
"Ah we have a very ill passenger on board that we have to take to London. Can we get priority taxi?" 😅
I wouldn't say angry, probably more frustrated with the situation at hand
Don't planes usually take off in the order they are in on the taxiway? You can count how many planes are in front of you. I don't understand why neither the pilots nor the controllers know the sequence.
You have multiple lines going to different places, they might know where they are in their line but they have no idea how that's going to mesh with other lines.
A lot of times planes with delays will be parked on stand-by ("penalty boxes") and may not be linearly sequenced for departures.
Or runways have multiple holding points from which to depart.
I kinda feel for the pilot. Isn’t that part of ultra low-cost model? Have pretty much only enough fuel, not too much extra? Pilots wanna be full so there’s plenty, company wants them to not have too much. So don’t wanna sit on the ground forever with engines running wasting fuel.
Isn't atc's primary function to sequence and seperate?
Yes, but they don't have to reply to requests that have nothing to do with keeping people safe
@Chris P. Bacon being proactive is safe. The more fuel I can save for unforeseen events is safe. Just because I have minimum fuel to take off. Doesn't mean I'm going to.
@@pk7549 that's on you for skimping then. You're aware there is construction & how often the particular airport gets congested.
How is saving fuel skimping?
@@pk7549take enough fuel to begin with. Stop making your problem, everybody else’s problem.
What’s the frequency Kenneth?
I see both sides of the coin, fuel considerations for the crews and the ATC side of it........... and not really anyway to influence that weather!
2 30-somethings cack measuring over the radios
I get Spirit. You have a min fuel for departure, and you are trying to figure out when to shut down or start up. Nobody wants to have to go back to the gate for fuel. I also get the controller. Sometimes, it is hard to give definitive info that is timely when Wx and sequence are so fluid. It’s a mystery how we do any of this stuff. They should pay us more I think.😊
I dont know anything about navigational.charts. why does it list tiny mundane buildings like the El Cortez hotel or Bank of America building when there are skyscrapers 4 times as tall on the Strip, i dont think the El Cortez is even close to being tallest in downtown?
Has nothing to do with being tall. They are landmarks that can be used to visualize where you are. This chart is for visual rules, not instrument rules.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 i dont see how anyone in the air would be able to distinguish the El Cortez from the Circa or the Plaza or any other Fremont St hotel
Professionalism at its finest in Vegas.
👍😏😂
On the part of ATC, yes it was.
Where i can download TRACON Simulator from your video "vasaviation TRACON Simulator"?
"Angry" might be overstating it tbh.
Everyone has a hard day once in a while.
what an ass.
imagine being able to treat your customers like that, and not get dinged for professionalism.
Los chismes de ATC son los mejores jajaja
These Vegas controllers are just god awful sometimes. I’ve never seen a facility get so overwhelmed so fast or so slow to sequence departures and/or cross landing traffic.
This runway construction is wrecking havoc on the airport and for an airport that is always gusting about 90% of the time, I’ve never seen an airport lose its shit over winds as fast as LAS.
At my wits end with this airport…
You should spend a few days in the cab or TRACON, I’m sure they’d appreciate you giving them all the solutions to their woes.
Ridiculous response. I’m based in Vegas and never had issues since 2006. Not once. Great bunch of people who handle the airport safe and efficient.
@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 it's a training base for newer atc folks.
I wouldn’t even describe it as angry. Maybe curt/short but I’m with the tower. It’s not the towers responsibility to make sure they have enough fuel on board. P
If 1NR was a controller
They should have a guy walking down the line with a gas can...
LOL .... search on google for MD80 adverts, the jet is next to a gas pump, and the captain (from the cockpit) making a gesture, "no thanks, Im ok with the fuel" (promoting the fuel efficiency of the MD80 family).
Legend has it that Spirit wants to know the sequence to this day.
The problem is, ~"Can you list the next 10 departures" After being told you're 4th. Sure, #1 Deez Airline...
ATC can be just smartasses at times
What a terrible person the controller is. If you cannot help at least be nice. Should not be in this job if he cannot handle stress.
I’m pretty sure that pilot didn’t say Ah….
Haha that was the funny part. The pilot was wrong, but the mic keying skills were off the chart.
ATC: "we're here to help. don't be afraid to talk to us."
ATC: proceeds to be a pilot's nightmare
this one wasn't that bad though. I wouldn't have given him those 10 either.
Pilot ain’t that wrong. You really can’t keep burning fuel with no clarity over sequence. It’s not that simple to turn around & line up to refuel. A little clarity (subject to work load) is always helpful, gets easier to plan the start up.
Ha, brings me back to some vatsim events :-D
I worry about these Low cheap airlines pushing their pilots To the point it's unsafe (fuel, time,sleep ect)... But also pilot needs to know when an airport has runway shut down and bad weather coming in.. Departures and arrivals are not etched in stone..
Your dealing with 1 plane he's dealing with 25 ...
Give it 5 years in AI will take both of your jobs.
This was a non-event.
😂😂 who peed in his toasted O's