To everyone asking what she did wrong: At 0:30 we see tower is talking to inbound traffic and telling them that the pilot deviation hopefully won't be in their way. "XD" was heading closer to the path of "216", so the tower gave the directions to turn XD to heading 180 and the climb to 3,500 was to get XD to a minimum vertical separation between the two planes. The landing aircraft (216) can't be asked to go lower, so XD had to climb and leave the airspace. IMO, tower should have told 216 to orbit a hold while a possible rogue aircraft was over the airfield... but that's for FAA to decide.
@@sdb87149essentially she was climbing too slowly to achieve the minimum separation. When ATC told her to climb faster, she still didn't. After being told she needed to call for a deviation, she wanted to leave and run back to Falcon Field 😂
@@MrAngel2U I’m not the original poster but I completely agree. The pilot seems to be at the same stage as many students I have at about 10-15 hours who can mostly hear what controllers are saying but fail to understand many comms. I have seen a ton of people with those level of comms skills as students are preparing for soloing and I would never solo a student who can’t answer and interpret pretty basic and clear comms. Maybe she was having a hearing issue I don’t know. I think likely she was a person who might have done training completely at a non-towered field. Also it appears her failing to pitch up has caused the tower to believe there was some danger to the plane on the approach. That’s something I really only see in pilots under 10 hours or in pilots when they fly into a cloud for the first time or get spatially disoriented To me it seems like tower was much harsher than most would have been but if they truly believed she was endangering the other pilot because she wasn’t listening to instructions they probably did the right thing but landing her and giving her a number This pilot really needs to go back to some remedial training I believe but we can always improve!
@@Flight_Follower Great job at showing the airport and the taxi ways she was supposed to go to. Good call of the controller to "ground" that pilot! She was a danger .
@@Flight_FollowerWhere did you get the flight track information? Does FlightAware data go back that far? (The first ATC recording I heard of this incident was posted in 2012.)
The pilot of 738XD is a perfect example of why I never pursued my dream as a pilot. I realize that I would have done much worse than her, and harmed myself or others.
Based on the audio, I believe that ATC did all the WRONG things here. The Cessna may not have the capabilities to climb as fast as tower had liked, but both tower & ground needed to be taken out back and given a good thrashing!!! The worse thing one can do is berate a pilot on the air... that destroys confidence and creates a very dangerous situation. Besides, they could've given her a turn in the air & progressive taxi on the ground. I fly all over to airports I'm not familiar with... what are we supposed to do, take an instructor around the world with us?!?! Pathetic mentality.
Agreed I was always taught if you are not familiar with an airport with complex taxiways, you ask for progressive taxing. Those assholes could have offered that instead of berate that pilot. She had way too much on her mind because of the way ATC acted... ground and tower! They made it worse. It was like they wanted her to crash?
I just flew to prescot today and it was busy, the tower was calling stuff out, change frequency as im climbing and then said i was turning when i thought i was straight... ive been fine at class d airspace before... it seemed very much like a "if your here you know, if your and outsider, no help. I even asked for a heading but he was just bashing with no help"
It is possible that the pilot displayed dangerous incompetence. However, the ATC guy is just awful. If you have a pilot who's struggling and is clearly under stress, the worst thing you can do in that situation is add to their stress.
Nah, the ATCs job is the maintain safe skies, not to babysit a fully licensed pilot who is obviously not meeting competency. You cannot fuck around in aviation and the ATC did nothing wrong, their tone was fine.
@@lachlanmax eh, the risk of her colliding with another plane can be easily avoided in the near term if that is really the goal - just direct other traffic away from her. The only person that this pilot is an immediate risk to at the moment is herself. If a pilot really is so incompetent that you need them to land immediately, then it's safe to assume they also dont do well under pressure from ATC... so put ego aside and get them on the ground safely, and then go from there. last thing a moronic pilot like this needs is an added layer of stress.
Add to their stress how? By making them land? He was very professional and calm. Yeah, according to you, maybe he should have been like "It's ok sweetheart, calm down. You almost hit a plane load of people, but hey. Sh|t happens. Just focus, don't let other people make fun of you. They have to understand you're nervous. We don't want you having an anxiety attack, so do what you feel is best". Whatever.
What an arrogant controller. I'm guessing if his company QA person (Serco) heard this they wouldn't be too happy. Since when does a VFR tower controller vector aircraft around in the pattern? He has NO authority to force her to land. Then the Ground Controller chews her out for landing at an airport she's not familiar with. These two sound like they think they are God's gift to the ATC world.
What was the original deviation? They didn't tell us. This video just starts out with the controller having an attitude towards this girl. What did she do wrong initially?
In the full version, she messed up her taxi instructions for takeoff by not holding short of the runway... she didn't follow his initial instructions on which way to go upon takeoff, he had to readjust her three times and then he said expedite climb because there was traffic incoming because when he said right turn she ended up making a left turn... then when there was going to be a potential collision, she didn't expedite her climb after already messing up... then even when he was trying to route her back in, she made two mistakes with her headings and yet again messed up on her taxiing instructions when she landed.
@@klinestill No. At the point the video starts, the controller already has a bad attitude towards this girl. We don't know what initially triggered his attitude. Although as time goes on we can see that he is frustrated with her and she is intimidated by him.
I can't be sure. But I think I know this person or someone like her. She was an ATP grad. Flew at our local airport one night and went against the designated landing pattern on 2 different runways. Caused all kinds of confusion with 3 student pilots in the air. Her radios calls were just as bad (this place was nontowered). On another occasion did a prop strike starting a Cessna with tow bar attached. If it's her....total menace to society.
Tower required her to land, and then Ground chastises her for not knowing we’re to go, and for not being familiar with the airport. My tax dollars at work.
In the full version, she messed up her taxi instructions for takeoff by not holding short of the runway... she didn't follow his initial instructions on which way to go upon takeoff, he had to readjust her three times and then he said expedite climb because there was traffic incoming because when he said right turn she ended up making a left turn... then when there was going to be a potential collision, she didn't expedite her climb after already messing up... then even when he was trying to route her back in, she made two mistakes with her headings and yet again messed up on her taxiing instructions when she landed.
There are signs that pilots are taught to understand that allows to navigate airports on the ground with verbal instructions. It's not hard. If you are really dumb you can always ask for a progressive taxi and they will oblige. Your tax dollars just saved lives. Any more dumb comments?
@@AnonyMous-jf4lc nope, no more dumb comments. Context sure adds a lot to understanding the situation, doesn’t it. But a$$hole comments like yours don’t add much at all.
They are keeping the air safe. She has no business flying. Made way to many dangerous mistakes. Better to have a rude controller than having aircraft crashing into each other.
In the full version, she messed up her taxi instructions for takeoff by not holding short of the runway... she didn't follow his initial instructions on which way to go upon takeoff, he had to readjust her three times and then he said expedite climb because there was traffic incoming because when he said right turn she ended up making a left turn... then when there was going to be a potential collision, she didn't expedite her climb after already messing up... then even when he was trying to route her back in, she made two mistakes with her headings and yet again messed up on her taxiing instructions when she landed.
Ive been a pilot for 40 years. I've never heard a controller tell someone to land here you are unsafe. I suspect she will be in remedial training soon.
I've heard that the controller's manual does not authorize ATC to order a pilot to land at a particular airport. It would be interesting to know if there were any repercussions for the controller because of this incident.
just a suggestion, im pretty sure you used an enhancement software for the audio for this - but it actually made it more difficult to listen to and less understandable. the standard unaltered audio + subtitles works better imo
He can’t make her land lol relax man she can’t climb as fast as you’d like. That’s none your concern, just make the calls to make everyone safe. Controllers throw out pilot deviations like hall monitors these days
@GWNorth-db8vn there's just not enough here to know. It's a 172, so climb sucks anyways. Who knows the density altitude. Its also wierd that he would make her land without a real cause. Wish there were more info here
In the full version, she messed up her taxi instructions for takeoff by not holding short of the runway... she didn't follow his initial instructions on which way to go upon takeoff, he had to readjust her three times and then he said expedite climb because there was traffic incoming because when he said right turn she ended up making a left turn... then when there was going to be a potential collision, she didn't expedite her climb after already messing up... then even when he was trying to route her back in, she made two mistakes with her headings and yet again messed up on her taxiing instructions when she landed.
Controllers who have commented on this have said that this controller should have confined himself to giving her a number to call and allowing her to return home to Falcon Field (which was only ten miles away).
What did the pilot do wrong here? Except for when she confused a radio call to another aircraft with her own, much later in the chain of events. So what was the actual problem?
The controller exacerbated an already stressful situation, significantly unsettling the likely inexperienced pilot, and potentially leading to a far worse outcome. His lack of professionalism exacerbated the circumstances and was the one creating a risk.
Controller way exceeded his authority, they can’t make someone land, once you do you’re stuck, he also has no right to tell a certified and current pilot to leave with an instructor
@@Aleksandar6ix Suppose the pilot is very uncomfortable with landing at the airport where the controller is making her land, and she has an accident due to say a visual illusion caused by a runway narrower than what she is used to, or unfavorable wind conditions etc. Whose hand would that dry on if she didn't want to land, but the controller made her?
In the full version, she messed up her taxi instructions for takeoff by not holding short of the runway... she didn't follow his initial instructions on which way to go upon takeoff, he had to readjust her three times and then he said expedite climb because there was traffic incoming because when he said right turn she ended up making a left turn... then when there was going to be a potential collision, she didn't expedite her climb after already messing up... then even when he was trying to route her back in, she made two mistakes with her headings and yet again messed up on her taxiing instructions when she landed.
@@Haywood-Jablomie Yes because she was under excessive and unnecessary load created by horrible controllers both in the tower and on the ground. Why in the hell would he demand she land back at the airport she was clearly unfamiliar with that is controlled by people who were not willing to give a pilot in this situation extra help. On the ground why didn't they offer progressive taxing when it was obvious she was having trouble. This is a clear example of when as PIC you say "cannot comply". You have a lot on your mind after that public berating so go land at the airport you are comfortable with then call the number and then politely ask them why they were trying to kill you!
@@danrubin7994 So much this. The line that proved all of this out to me was when ground control said you need an instructor if you are going to an unfamiliar airfield. Like what? Do we now need an instructor for each new airport we go to? That's insane. These controllers were upset with here for some reason, probably some of it was the communication issues, but I'd also suggest at least a little bit of misogyny here.
@@pilotbrian1 and then he coerces an obviously overwhelmed stressed out pilot, which he caused, to go back TO THAT UNFAMILIAR AIRPORT and land? That a-hole was just lucky she didn't hurt herself or anyone else. I don't think even he could forgive himself after the smoke settled.
She learned to repeat everything in the passive voice and tag the tail number at the end. No thought about what it actually means. I'm sure she tried to dial 988.74 on the radio to "contact tower"
First transmission the controller is already messing up his phraseology and with a foreign student solo. "turn right fly heading 180"? It's fly heading OR turn right turn left, not both. Way too much verbiage, this definitely contributed to her confusion. Controller was not helpful in the situation, had zero patience, talking way too fast for no reason. Ground control chastises her for not knowing where anything is on the ground at an airport she had no intention of landing at. ATC needs an attitude adjustment at this facility.
Holy cow. I've watched alot of these videos and have never seen a controller ground a pilot. Can you imagine the embarrassment? When she gets out of that plane, she's going to be walking the walk of shame for sure.
I fly 150, sometime can’t climb no matter how hard,I flap my hands…. Isn’t it tower’s job to sequence planes accordingly so they won’t be need to “expedite” a climb?
You should not fly your airplane beyond it's performance. A 150 does not have much power. You should not fly if the Density altitude is to high. Use your performance charts and your brain.
Better response if you cannot make climb is "Unable", not just continue present altitude and then turn in the opossite direction to instructions, into path of landing traffic... The recording presented here omits rather a lot of tower trying to sequence her so that separation can be maintained, without much luck.
This girl should NOT have been granted a pilot's license! How did any instructor or examiner let her get this far? She can't communicate, understand, or follow instructions.
As far as I know, they don't have the legal authority to ground a flight or a pilot. All they can do is give the FAA the information and it is up to the FAA to determine any consequences.
Yes, ATC has the authority to have a pilot in their airspace land. If the pilot does not land, ATC can file a pilot deviation violation with the FAA. The FAA will handle it from there.
Yep. And if he can prove he was justified in that decision, it would be your last flight. And he can definatetly prove that pilot was a danger to others and herself. It's not like a car wreck you can walk away from.
@@kentpatriot4062 gee tough guy. And do enlighten us on how you'd make them live to regret it? It would be the last time you talked to an ATC, or fly a plane for that matter. But you go ahead, fill us in.
@@dougwood8549 You can't be bothered to read my other comment about when it did happen to me? I was in the right. I did nothing wrong. I made it very clear that I was going to call the number he gave me, and I did. His supervisor apologized to me, and assured me he would be taking corrective actions. I'm not a tough who's going to beat someone up. I'm smart. Smart enough to call out the idiots. ATC cannot take a pilot's certificate. And they can't do squat when they're wrong. Radio etiquette is important. And it's important for controllers to use it too, carefully, all the time.
@@kentpatriot4062 wait a minute now. For one, I'm not going to read every single comment that's been made in a thread. I have better things to do. And two, I asked you how you were going to make the ATC live to regret talking to you like that. Which you never answered. THAT'S the point I was making. Besides all that, I want to hear the story from the ATC. Which can never happen, and that's why you can make such a boistrous claim. So again, how would you make him regret talking to you like that?
That controller is an ass. And, I don't believe he can make you land anywhere. Should have said, "unable and I feel this is unsafe. Returning to Falcon and will call Gateway tower from there". The controller is not in charge of your aircraft, you are the PIC.
Hopelessly out-of-context. Need to know the deviation to understand what's happening. And ATC is only making this worse. Check the attitude and HELP her get on the ground.
I agree. Neither of the recordings I have heard include whatever led up to the controller's decision to "make" her land at Gateway. The ground controller's comment that she should have familiarized herself with the field doesn't make sense, since she couldn't have known in advanced that she was going to be ordered to land and taxi to parking there. (She was apparently based at Falcon Field.)
@@SFDukieYou probably already know this by now, but for others, Pilots of America has a discussion on this incident that started on Sept. 19, 2012. (I would post a link here, but RUclips seems to only allow RUclips links in the comments.)
Not defending the pilot or the tower.... As a pilot miserly, I didn't know a tower has the authority to revoke a pilot. The authority to tell them when and where to land. The pilot is the sole operator of the aircraft.
This is from 2012 and you make it seem like it is from 2024. Put some more detail in the description and stop spamming popular old recordings that were already posted without any additional contributions
Have you found any older RUclips recordings of this incident? I found a discussion thread from September 19, 2012 on Pilots of America, but the only links that seem to work here are links to RUclips videos.
This is bad. 20+ years ago when I was flight instructing, we had a student (not mine): brilliant surgeon, 4.0 from some place like Harvard, etc, etc... 250+ hours and still no solo. She just could NOT do 2 things at the same time! IF she could have paused real life, she could have done anything, but flying simply isn't like that! I hate to say it, but that student and this person sound almost identical on the radio. How this person passed a PPL checkride is beyond me.
I don’t get how so many commenters are all knotted up over “rude controllers” at Gateway. Firm, yes. But rude? Hardly. Calling someone out on an error and “holding his/her hand” with progressive is just part of the job.
Yes, in most countries they have a legal obligation to force someone to land if they are a flight risk... In the full version, she messed up her taxi instructions for takeoff by not holding short of the runway... she didn't follow his initial instructions on which way to go upon takeoff, he had to readjust her three times and then he said expedite climb because there was traffic incoming because when he said right turn she ended up making a left turn... then when there was going to be a potential collision, she didn't expedite her climb after already messing up... then even when he was trying to route her back in, she made two mistakes with her headings and yet again messed up on her taxiing instructions when she landed.
She asked to return Falcon Field, so the plane may have been based there. Since this recording dates back to at least 2012, do the records you're checking go back that far?
I don't see this being legit at all. This audio sounds very suspect. I've heard hundreds of hours of ATC recordings and have flown with ATC many times, and this doesn't sound right. This is probably something that someone just put together.
She was probably doing about the best she could with her limited English proficiency. Ain't no way I would ever go to China and fly around trying to communicate with the broken-English Chinese controllers.
@@KimWentworth-y8e There was no indication in this clip that she couldn't "read, speak and talk" (speaking of English, WTF is that? Isn't speak and talk the same in this context? BTW, it's called a "synonym") English. Her pilot communication skills weren't good, but her "English" was fine. That's the requirement.
Her English is insufficient, every one defending her has a level of proficiency well below that of the pilot in this video. Her lack communication skills are a threat to aircraft in the AO and this ATC’r made the right call.
I don't think so. Her English was fine. She didn't use it correctly for sure, but you and I both understood everything she said. What you are doing is conflating language with not making the appropriate radio calls.
@@evajordan450you are so right! She is mentally retarded and had no idea what the controllers were saying. (I’m just being sarcastic in case you misunderstood my broken English with your most likely monolingual expertise). She did understand whatever they were telling her. Given the stressful situation and dealing with two rude and unhelpful controllers she did fine. And she did land the plane.
Controller is going to "make you land?" Hahahahaha Hey ATC, you're in the tower because I'm in the cockpit. Last time I read the FARs NO ONE can tell the PIC what to do with their aircraft. smh
I'm just speculating here, but the sound of the female pilots voice sounded distinctly Asian. A very distinct accent to a certain Asian culture that is now traveling the World and think everybody should lay down at their feet and submit their way of arrogance and ineptitude.
@@Flight_Follower I fly out of Mn and can attest to the fact that the Chinese students out of UND have horrible English skills but money runs the program not rules
It's hard to say, given that the recording does not include what happened before he decoded to "make" her land at his airport. Also, this happened at least 12 years ago.
Sorry, but this video doesn't show any incompetence on behalf of the pilot. The title is extremely misleading. All i see is a controller who keeps scolding a pilot for no apparent reason and then has the audacity to ask her to land at an unfamiliar airport which was not her destination. Controllers do not have such authority. Where exactly did he get the idea he can do that?? Power trips are dangerous. He then scolds her again on the ground, after having forced her to land at an airport she was not prepared for, because she did not know her way around. Is he alright? All i see here is a jerk harassing a pilot, which should be the correct title for this video. By the way, she should have continued to her destination and ignore his "order" to land. And if he had a problem with that, he should go ahead and file a report, see who is laughing.
Looking through the forum posts back in 2012 when this happened it’s hard to find any details of what exactly she did wrong but it’s certainly not a DEI thing since that’s just a fear mongering tactic. Its possible the mistakes she made were minor and this airport is just staffed with people that are going to be extra harsh, I mean the ground controller was frustrated she was unfamiliar with the airport taxi ways even though there’s no reason she would’ve studied and known all of the taxi ways since she never planned on parking there.
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Any time a controller gets mad at you, just say the magic words: "sorry, student solo". I do it all the time in the 747.
Lmao
Good one
😂😂😂😂
ROFL!!!
No one gives a shit that you fly a 747. For who? Scumbag kalitta? 😂🤦🖕
6:00 Sometimes, when I have been off from work for a few days, I get lonely and call Center from a handheld in my bathtub. Gosh, I miss those guys.
😂😂
I'll bet that it's a mutual deal 🤗
To everyone asking what she did wrong:
At 0:30 we see tower is talking to inbound traffic and telling them that the pilot deviation hopefully won't be in their way.
"XD" was heading closer to the path of "216", so the tower gave the directions to turn XD to heading 180 and the climb to 3,500 was to get XD to a minimum vertical separation between the two planes. The landing aircraft (216) can't be asked to go lower, so XD had to climb and leave the airspace.
IMO, tower should have told 216 to orbit a hold while a possible rogue aircraft was over the airfield... but that's for FAA to decide.
Sounds made up. How do you know she’s a rogue aircraft? She’s on frequency with tower. There’s no evidence that she busted the Gateway delta.
How did she not comply though? I came from another video with a map and still don’t get it
216 should have called a go around if the tower didn't direct it.
@@sdb87149essentially she was climbing too slowly to achieve the minimum separation. When ATC told her to climb faster, she still didn't. After being told she needed to call for a deviation, she wanted to leave and run back to Falcon Field 😂
Thank you so much! I was about to ask what she did wrong. Sounds pretty serious. What happens if you don't call that number? Or just blow it off?
As a student pilot all of this makes me feel so much better about my flubbed radio calls!🤣
Listen to these videos and others, listen to as much radio chatter as you can when you are relaxed and on the ground .You will pick up on it faster .
I would go to my local tower on liveatc and just respond to calls they are making while sitting around the house.
Holy moly, I do not feel like this girl was ready to be solo, let alone signed off for her PPL.
Based on what? i'll wait.
Yeah Why not? Seems like some context is missing in this video.
@@MrAngel2Ushe doesn’t know what she is doing
Females in general have NO BUSINESS in the cockpit of any airplane. Their reckless nature is proven time & time again, unfortunately.
@@MrAngel2U I’m not the original poster but I completely agree. The pilot seems to be at the same stage as many students I have at about 10-15 hours who can mostly hear what controllers are saying but fail to understand many comms. I have seen a ton of people with those level of comms skills as students are preparing for soloing and I would never solo a student who can’t answer and interpret pretty basic and clear comms. Maybe she was having a hearing issue I don’t know. I think likely she was a person who might have done training completely at a non-towered field.
Also it appears her failing to pitch up has caused the tower to believe there was some danger to the plane on the approach. That’s something I really only see in pilots under 10 hours or in pilots when they fly into a cloud for the first time or get spatially disoriented
To me it seems like tower was much harsher than most would have been but if they truly believed she was endangering the other pilot because she wasn’t listening to instructions they probably did the right thing but landing her and giving her a number
This pilot really needs to go back to some remedial training I believe but we can always improve!
The 'XD' just makes it even better
Thats what i thought too while working on the video.. 😂
@@Flight_FollowerYou could've replaced the callsign with a xD or an emoji.
@@Flight_Follower Great job at showing the airport and the taxi ways she was supposed to go to. Good call of the controller to "ground" that pilot! She was a danger .
@@Flight_FollowerWhere did you get the flight track information? Does FlightAware data go back that far? (The first ATC recording I heard of this incident was posted in 2012.)
XD Extra Dumb
The pilot of 738XD is a perfect example of why I never pursued my dream as a pilot. I realize that I would have done much worse than her, and harmed myself or others.
Based on the audio, I believe that ATC did all the WRONG things here. The Cessna may not have the capabilities to climb as fast as tower had liked, but both tower & ground needed to be taken out back and given a good thrashing!!! The worse thing one can do is berate a pilot on the air... that destroys confidence and creates a very dangerous situation. Besides, they could've given her a turn in the air & progressive taxi on the ground. I fly all over to airports I'm not familiar with... what are we supposed to do, take an instructor around the world with us?!?! Pathetic mentality.
Agreed I was always taught if you are not familiar with an airport with complex taxiways, you ask for progressive taxing. Those assholes could have offered that instead of berate that pilot. She had way too much on her mind because of the way ATC acted... ground and tower! They made it worse. It was like they wanted her to crash?
You sound like a cuck, you know that? 🤦
@@SkipJack1950 I'm wondering if something happened before that, like she encroached on an incoming approach, or busted a bravo or something.
I think I speak english but when I listen to the ATC I lealized I do not speak english...if it was me an F16 would shot me down.
"She's a danger to herself and everything in the air... yeah, birds too."
"She's up to 5000 feet, down to 2000 feet, back up to 4000 feet...what an asshole!"
Toronto Center handled the check in from the bathtub very well.
That Kuwaiti 117 Heavy just cracked me up 😂
Danger to aviation. wow. That is the harshest thing I've ever heard a controller say!
It's the truth!!! She has NO BUSINESS in the cockpit of ANY airplane, period! 🖕
I instructed in the PHX area for 4 years 2014-18. Gateway tower was the worst to deal with, air and ground.
yup, given they are quite busy with a lot of students who aren't very proficient but gateway tower is generally pretty rude from my experience
After listening to this I believe you.
I just flew to prescot today and it was busy, the tower was calling stuff out, change frequency as im climbing and then said i was turning when i thought i was straight... ive been fine at class d airspace before... it seemed very much like a "if your here you know, if your and outsider, no help. I even asked for a heading but he was just bashing with no help"
@@FrankJr-c9m you're...an....
Yes. These dudes are total dicks. They force her to land and than scold her for landing there. Total Dicks!
It is possible that the pilot displayed dangerous incompetence. However, the ATC guy is just awful. If you have a pilot who's struggling and is clearly under stress, the worst thing you can do in that situation is add to their stress.
You sound like a cuck, you know that? 🤦
Nah, the ATCs job is the maintain safe skies, not to babysit a fully licensed pilot who is obviously not meeting competency. You cannot fuck around in aviation and the ATC did nothing wrong, their tone was fine.
@@lachlanmax eh, the risk of her colliding with another plane can be easily avoided in the near term if that is really the goal - just direct other traffic away from her. The only person that this pilot is an immediate risk to at the moment is herself. If a pilot really is so incompetent that you need them to land immediately, then it's safe to assume they also dont do well under pressure from ATC... so put ego aside and get them on the ground safely, and then go from there. last thing a moronic pilot like this needs is an added layer of stress.
Add to their stress how? By making them land? He was very professional and calm. Yeah, according to you, maybe he should have been like "It's ok sweetheart, calm down. You almost hit a plane load of people, but hey. Sh|t happens. Just focus, don't let other people make fun of you. They have to understand you're nervous. We don't want you having an anxiety attack, so do what you feel is best". Whatever.
What an arrogant controller. I'm guessing if his company QA person (Serco) heard this they wouldn't be too happy. Since when does a VFR tower controller vector aircraft around in the pattern? He has NO authority to force her to land. Then the Ground Controller chews her out for landing at an airport she's not familiar with. These two sound like they think they are God's gift to the ATC world.
For those wondering, when the ATC says "Expedite climb immediately..." it means collision is imminent.
What was the original deviation? They didn't tell us. This video just starts out with the controller having an attitude towards this girl. What did she do wrong initially?
She might have been deviating around for a while before it got to "expedite climb"
In the full version, she messed up her taxi instructions for takeoff by not holding short of the runway... she didn't follow his initial instructions on which way to go upon takeoff, he had to readjust her three times and then he said expedite climb because there was traffic incoming because when he said right turn she ended up making a left turn... then when there was going to be a potential collision, she didn't expedite her climb after already messing up... then even when he was trying to route her back in, she made two mistakes with her headings and yet again messed up on her taxiing instructions when she landed.
They failed to show the complete video. She made several dangerous mistakes.
@@Haywood-Jablomie Well where’s the “full version”?
@@klinestill No. At the point the video starts, the controller already has a bad attitude towards this girl. We don't know what initially triggered his attitude. Although as time goes on we can see that he is frustrated with her and she is intimidated by him.
I can't be sure. But I think I know this person or someone like her. She was an ATP grad. Flew at our local airport one night and went against the designated landing pattern on 2 different runways. Caused all kinds of confusion with 3 student pilots in the air. Her radios calls were just as bad (this place was nontowered). On another occasion did a prop strike starting a Cessna with tow bar attached. If it's her....total menace to society.
99.99% of women in aviation are menaces to society. 🤦
That was 12 years ago. She's probably an Airline Pilot now. 👩✈
Tower required her to land, and then Ground chastises her for not knowing we’re to go, and for not being familiar with the airport. My tax dollars at work.
In the full version, she messed up her taxi instructions for takeoff by not holding short of the runway... she didn't follow his initial instructions on which way to go upon takeoff, he had to readjust her three times and then he said expedite climb because there was traffic incoming because when he said right turn she ended up making a left turn... then when there was going to be a potential collision, she didn't expedite her climb after already messing up... then even when he was trying to route her back in, she made two mistakes with her headings and yet again messed up on her taxiing instructions when she landed.
There are signs that pilots are taught to understand that allows to navigate airports on the ground with verbal instructions. It's not hard. If you are really dumb you can always ask for a progressive taxi and they will oblige. Your tax dollars just saved lives. Any more dumb comments?
@@AnonyMous-jf4lc nope, no more dumb comments. Context sure adds a lot to understanding the situation, doesn’t it. But a$$hole comments like yours don’t add much at all.
They are keeping the air safe. She has no business flying. Made way to many dangerous mistakes. Better to have a rude controller than having aircraft crashing into each other.
@@Haywood-Jablomiewhere can I find the full version?
Sounds like she got rattled. I don't think the controller helped, either.
In the full version, she messed up her taxi instructions for takeoff by not holding short of the runway... she didn't follow his initial instructions on which way to go upon takeoff, he had to readjust her three times and then he said expedite climb because there was traffic incoming because when he said right turn she ended up making a left turn... then when there was going to be a potential collision, she didn't expedite her climb after already messing up... then even when he was trying to route her back in, she made two mistakes with her headings and yet again messed up on her taxiing instructions when she landed.
You sound like a cuck, you know this? 🤦🖕
@@Haywood-Jablomiewish they would of played the entire tale with radar, it would of made a lot more sense
Maybe it's good he rattled her. Maybe she'll change her mind about being a pilot.
The student pilots in that area, with poor communication skills, are a danger to all pilots.
I live 3 blocks from Falcon. Thank you for getting her on the ground … there at Gateway.
I’m at Gateway. Keep her from my plane please.
@@nathanhylandno one gives a damn that you're an airplane owner. 🖕🤦
What tower didn't realise is that bathman actually has his own private bathroom installed in the cockpit of his private 747.
😂😂
no... it's on a Cryo-ship heading for our planet around 10'000 BC
Plot twist: it’s Drake on his 757
Either way, it's impressive radio performance for a handheld. Wiarton is 90 nm from Toronto.
Ive been a pilot for 40 years. I've never heard a controller tell someone to land here you are unsafe. I suspect she will be in remedial training soon.
I've heard that the controller's manual does not authorize ATC to order a pilot to land at a particular airport. It would be interesting to know if there were any repercussions for the controller because of this incident.
How did that first girl ever get signed off for her Private?!?
Good question!
Money!!
what has been happening in the US over the last few years? Think about that and that should answer your question about how she got signed off.
@@jeremymurphy4071 You mean Donald Trump raped this woman in a dressing room? What does that have to do with her piloting skill?
No idea, crazy!
just a suggestion, im pretty sure you used an enhancement software for the audio for this - but it actually made it more difficult to listen to and less understandable. the standard unaltered audio + subtitles works better imo
Thanks for your advice,sir
We will definitely look into it
wen A380?
He can’t make her land lol relax man she can’t climb as fast as you’d like. That’s none your concern, just make the calls to make everyone safe. Controllers throw out pilot deviations like hall monitors these days
It's a problem if he says "expedite climb" and she doesn't. Keeping her from a CFIT isn't being obnoxious.
@GWNorth-db8vn there's just not enough here to know. It's a 172, so climb sucks anyways. Who knows the density altitude. Its also wierd that he would make her land without a real cause. Wish there were more info here
if she can "expedite" a climb as instructed she needs to tell tower unable immediately.
That’s true we cannot force someone to land. All we can do is report to fsdo.
She's clearly confused and incompetent. I wonder how she got that PPL
What happened before? For what did she earn the pilot deviation?
In the full version, she messed up her taxi instructions for takeoff by not holding short of the runway... she didn't follow his initial instructions on which way to go upon takeoff, he had to readjust her three times and then he said expedite climb because there was traffic incoming because when he said right turn she ended up making a left turn... then when there was going to be a potential collision, she didn't expedite her climb after already messing up... then even when he was trying to route her back in, she made two mistakes with her headings and yet again messed up on her taxiing instructions when she landed.
Thanks!
we couldn’t collect the full audio clip… sorry about that
@@Haywood-Jablomie do you know where we can find the full clip?
Controller made the situation much worse
You sound like a cuck, you know that? 🤦
Controllers who have commented on this have said that this controller should have confined himself to giving her a number to call and allowing her to return home to Falcon Field (which was only ten miles away).
What's the full story here? It's out of context.
What did the pilot do wrong here? Except for when she confused a radio call to another aircraft with her own, much later in the chain of events. So what was the actual problem?
This incident was discussed online in September of 2012. The discussion included a partial ATC recording that confirms that it's the same incident.
That was 12 years ago. She's probably an Airline Pilot by now. 👩✈
What exactly was the deviation?
The controller exacerbated an already stressful situation, significantly unsettling the likely inexperienced pilot, and potentially leading to a far worse outcome. His lack of professionalism exacerbated the circumstances and was the one creating a risk.
I strongly disagree. You sound like a CUCK, with that answer. You know that? 🤦
Controller way exceeded his authority, they can’t make someone land, once you do you’re stuck, he also has no right to tell a certified and current pilot to leave with an instructor
Holy sh*t, must have had a bad hangover that controler
Genuinely curious (I fly in Canada)...from where does the controller derive the authority to force a pilot to land?
Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do for aviation safety, authority or not.
I don't disagree with his actions, at all. I'm just curious about what would have happened next if she'd said "no".
@@Aleksandar6ix
They have no authority to make you land anywhere. They can prevent you from landing, but they can't make you land because you've angered them.
@@Aleksandar6ix Suppose the pilot is very uncomfortable with landing at the airport where the controller is making her land, and she has an accident due to say a visual illusion caused by a runway narrower than what she is used to, or unfavorable wind conditions etc. Whose hand would that dry on if she didn't want to land, but the controller made her?
I turn now .......
What an ATC power trip.
Thats crazy i knew gateway’s controllers were bad but they’ve gotten worse since last year. ATP’s probably burning them out.
In the full version, she messed up her taxi instructions for takeoff by not holding short of the runway... she didn't follow his initial instructions on which way to go upon takeoff, he had to readjust her three times and then he said expedite climb because there was traffic incoming because when he said right turn she ended up making a left turn... then when there was going to be a potential collision, she didn't expedite her climb after already messing up... then even when he was trying to route her back in, she made two mistakes with her headings and yet again messed up on her taxiing instructions when she landed.
@@Haywood-Jablomie Yes because she was under excessive and unnecessary load created by horrible controllers both in the tower and on the ground. Why in the hell would he demand she land back at the airport she was clearly unfamiliar with that is controlled by people who were not willing to give a pilot in this situation extra help. On the ground why didn't they offer progressive taxing when it was obvious she was having trouble. This is a clear example of when as PIC you say "cannot comply". You have a lot on your mind after that public berating so go land at the airport you are comfortable with then call the number and then politely ask them why they were trying to kill you!
@@danrubin7994 So much this. The line that proved all of this out to me was when ground control said you need an instructor if you are going to an unfamiliar airfield. Like what? Do we now need an instructor for each new airport we go to? That's insane. These controllers were upset with here for some reason, probably some of it was the communication issues, but I'd also suggest at least a little bit of misogyny here.
@@pilotbrian1 and then he coerces an obviously overwhelmed stressed out pilot, which he caused, to go back TO THAT UNFAMILIAR AIRPORT and land? That a-hole was just lucky she didn't hurt herself or anyone else. I don't think even he could forgive himself after the smoke settled.
She learned to repeat everything in the passive voice and tag the tail number at the end. No thought about what it actually means. I'm sure she tried to dial 988.74 on the radio to "contact tower"
This would have some meaning if it were made clear exactly what the pilot did to so agravate the controller other than speak with a heavy accent
Dude, Gateway controllers are always so intense. I get it because of the training on the field but damn
Legend has it she started an Instagram with the handle "unintelligible" and is now a Delta 777 captain.
Why do they keep giving licenses to people who have no idea what they're doing?
Can anyone answer this question. It's getting really bad. Many new pilots flying and being dangerous.
DEI@@KimWentworth-y8e
First transmission the controller is already messing up his phraseology and with a foreign student solo. "turn right fly heading 180"? It's fly heading OR turn right turn left, not both. Way too much verbiage, this definitely contributed to her confusion.
Controller was not helpful in the situation, had zero patience, talking way too fast for no reason. Ground control chastises her for not knowing where anything is on the ground at an airport she had no intention of landing at. ATC needs an attitude adjustment at this facility.
Holy cow. I've watched alot of these videos and have never seen a controller ground a pilot. Can you imagine the embarrassment? When she gets out of that plane, she's going to be walking the walk of shame for sure.
I fly 150, sometime can’t climb no matter how hard,I flap my hands…. Isn’t it tower’s job to sequence planes accordingly so they won’t be need to “expedite” a climb?
The issue wasn't sequence, the issue was her not following direction.
You should not fly your airplane beyond it's performance. A 150 does not have much power. You should not fly if the Density altitude is to high. Use your performance charts and your brain.
Better response if you cannot make climb is "Unable", not just continue present altitude and then turn in the opossite direction to instructions, into path of landing traffic... The recording presented here omits rather a lot of tower trying to sequence her so that separation can be maintained, without much luck.
New show “Bad Asian aviators”. Me turn here! Good Ruk everybody else!!
This girl should NOT have been granted a pilot's license! How did any instructor or examiner let her get this far? She can't communicate, understand, or follow instructions.
My take is the controller is partly responsible for the pilots frustration. He seemed bent on asserting his authority and not helping the pilot.
DEI candidate! She has a slot at UA waiting for her
These controllers overreached here. They heard her accent and prejudiced her. She probably interrupted their Fox News coverage
Gateway rude controllers 😖✈️
Cry more.
That controller far exceeded any authority he has.
Even if he did, he probably saved her life and perhaps many others. She was clearly a danger to aviation safety.
Realistically, can a controller make you land anywhere, for any reason?
As far as I know, they don't have the legal authority to ground a flight or a pilot. All they can do is give the FAA the information and it is up to the FAA to determine any consequences.
No
But then again that's the point, no? She didn't know they couldn't make her do it. Controller just used her confusion to everyone's advantage.
Yes, ATC has the authority to have a pilot in their airspace land. If the pilot does not land, ATC can file a pilot deviation violation with the FAA. The FAA will handle it from there.
No, they have NO authority to make you land, only prevent you from landing at their field.
LOL, they can't make you land at a field you don't want to. If a controller ever said "I'm going to make you land here", I'd laugh.
Yep. And if he can prove he was justified in that decision, it would be your last flight. And he can definatetly prove that pilot was a danger to others and herself. It's not like a car wreck you can walk away from.
Yeah, her calls and failure to follow ATC instructions are bad, but if a controller talked to me like that, he'd come to regret it.
@@kentpatriot4062 gee tough guy. And do enlighten us on how you'd make them live to regret it? It would be the last time you talked to an ATC, or fly a plane for that matter. But you go ahead, fill us in.
@@dougwood8549 You can't be bothered to read my other comment about when it did happen to me? I was in the right. I did nothing wrong. I made it very clear that I was going to call the number he gave me, and I did. His supervisor apologized to me, and assured me he would be taking corrective actions.
I'm not a tough who's going to beat someone up. I'm smart. Smart enough to call out the idiots. ATC cannot take a pilot's certificate. And they can't do squat when they're wrong.
Radio etiquette is important. And it's important for controllers to use it too, carefully, all the time.
@@kentpatriot4062 wait a minute now. For one, I'm not going to read every single comment that's been made in a thread. I have better things to do. And two, I asked you how you were going to make the ATC live to regret talking to you like that. Which you never answered. THAT'S the point I was making. Besides all that, I want to hear the story from the ATC. Which can never happen, and that's why you can make such a boistrous claim. So again, how would you make him regret talking to you like that?
Good controller. Incompetent pilot.
BINGO. 99.99% of female pilots are incompetent and direct results of DEI policies.
She'll be 777 SIC next year in China, it'll be ok guys.
"I have private pilots license."
"Ok, but is that your license, or did you find one that got dropped on the ground?"
That controller is an ass. And, I don't believe he can make you land anywhere. Should have said, "unable and I feel this is unsafe. Returning to Falcon and will call Gateway tower from there". The controller is not in charge of your aircraft, you are the PIC.
Hopelessly out-of-context. Need to know the deviation to understand what's happening.
And ATC is only making this worse. Check the attitude and HELP her get on the ground.
I agree. Neither of the recordings I have heard include whatever led up to the controller's decision to "make" her land at Gateway. The ground controller's comment that she should have familiarized herself with the field doesn't make sense, since she couldn't have known in advanced that she was going to be ordered to land and taxi to parking there. (She was apparently based at Falcon Field.)
What date did this happen?
Looking at registration info for this C172, I think it was 2013 or earlier.
@@SFDukieYou probably already know this by now, but for others, Pilots of America has a discussion on this incident that started on Sept. 19, 2012. (I would post a link here, but RUclips seems to only allow RUclips links in the comments.)
Good luck everybody else!!!
Not defending the pilot or the tower.... As a pilot miserly, I didn't know a tower has the authority to revoke a pilot. The authority to tell them when and where to land. The pilot is the sole operator of the aircraft.
This is from 2012 and you make it seem like it is from 2024. Put some more detail in the description and stop spamming popular old recordings that were already posted without any additional contributions
Have you found any older RUclips recordings of this incident? I found a discussion thread from September 19, 2012 on Pilots of America, but the only links that seem to work here are links to RUclips videos.
So many trained professional pilots in the comments 😅
What happens if you don't call that number?
It’s a safe way to ensure the paperwork, radar data, and voice recordings get forwarded to QA and FSDO for review.
This is bad. 20+ years ago when I was flight instructing, we had a student (not mine): brilliant surgeon, 4.0 from some place like Harvard, etc, etc... 250+ hours and still no solo. She just could NOT do 2 things at the same time! IF she could have paused real life, she could have done anything, but flying simply isn't like that! I hate to say it, but that student and this person sound almost identical on the radio. How this person passed a PPL checkride is beyond me.
I’m starting to regret selling my airplane less and less these days 🤔.
No one cares that you owned an airplane. Get over yourself. 🤦
I don’t get how so many commenters are all knotted up over “rude controllers” at Gateway. Firm, yes. But rude? Hardly. Calling someone out on an error and “holding his/her hand” with progressive is just part of the job.
I've never heard of this. Does ATC even have the authority to ground someone?
yeah, I feel safe in the air
Could someone do the simulation?
I've never heard of air traffic control forcing a plane to land at an airport. Do they even have the legal authority to do that?
Yes, in most countries they have a legal obligation to force someone to land if they are a flight risk... In the full version, she messed up her taxi instructions for takeoff by not holding short of the runway... she didn't follow his initial instructions on which way to go upon takeoff, he had to readjust her three times and then he said expedite climb because there was traffic incoming because when he said right turn she ended up making a left turn... then when there was going to be a potential collision, she didn't expedite her climb after already messing up... then even when he was trying to route her back in, she made two mistakes with her headings and yet again messed up on her taxiing instructions when she landed.
No they don't ! They are not instructors. Another jealous controller.
@@jackass7221 I worked as a flight instructor for 4 years, Westjet for 6 years and Air Canada for 3 years... YES they can !
@@jackass7221 Yes they do have the right to... I've worked as a flight instructor , west jet and Air Canada.
@@Haywood-JablomieYou'll never win an argument with a jackass😅
Thankfully ATC grounded someone a CFI or DPE should have grounded earlier.
The traffic controller calls the pilot "ma'am" using a tone of voice which expresses irritation.
738xd does not show as ever flown in AZ.
She asked to return Falcon Field, so the plane may have been based there. Since this recording dates back to at least 2012, do the records you're checking go back that far?
How in the world did this woman pass her check ride?
I don't see this being legit at all. This audio sounds very suspect. I've heard hundreds of hours of ATC recordings and have flown with ATC many times, and this doesn't sound right. This is probably something that someone just put together.
She was probably doing about the best she could with her limited English proficiency. Ain't no way I would ever go to China and fly around trying to communicate with the broken-English Chinese controllers.
She received her pilot's license in Canada and lived in Canada and USA for 12 years ... not much of an excuse. lol
you are required to be proficient in english to get a pilots license..... you should know that if you are commenting about it.
You have to be able to read, speak and talk the English language in order to fly.
@@Haywood-Jablomiesource?
@@KimWentworth-y8e There was no indication in this clip that she couldn't "read, speak and talk" (speaking of English, WTF is that? Isn't speak and talk the same in this context? BTW, it's called a "synonym") English. Her pilot communication skills weren't good, but her "English" was fine. That's the requirement.
OMG this 738xd is from before 2012
Her English is insufficient, every one defending her has a level of proficiency well below that of the pilot in this video. Her lack communication skills are a threat to aircraft in the AO and this ATC’r made the right call.
I don't think so. Her English was fine. She didn't use it correctly for sure, but you and I both understood everything she said. What you are doing is conflating language with not making the appropriate radio calls.
Yeah. Every one. Give us a break, bi***c. Will ya?
@jerrylittle7797 it's not about our ability to understand English, its about her ability to comprehend the communications.
@@evajordan450you are so right! She is mentally retarded and had no idea what the controllers were saying. (I’m just being sarcastic in case you misunderstood my broken English with your most likely monolingual expertise). She did understand whatever they were telling her. Given the stressful situation and dealing with two rude and unhelpful controllers she did fine. And she did land the plane.
love bathtub man! 🤦♀️ at that pilot tho. bet she is family of the school that gave her a license 🙄
The controller was unhelpful - maybe he doesn't like women very much, especially those whose first language is not Engl;ish.
Clearly he was misgendering her by assuming she was a ma'am. The confusion resulted.
Wait? I thought Danger to Aviation was MY call sign?
Controller is going to "make you land?" Hahahahaha Hey ATC, you're in the tower because I'm in the cockpit. Last time I read the FARs NO ONE can tell the PIC what to do with their aircraft. smh
I'm just speculating here, but the sound of the female pilots voice sounded distinctly Asian. A very distinct accent to a certain Asian culture that is now traveling the World and think everybody should lay down at their feet and submit their way of arrogance and ineptitude.
🤫🤔😶🌫️
Appears to be a foreign pilot based on her English
Yeah i found it difficult to understand her call sign specially the XD part
@@Flight_Follower I fly out of Mn and can attest to the fact that the Chinese students out of UND have horrible English skills but money runs the program not rules
@@arthurbrumagem3844 “money run the program not rules”
Thats dangerous!
@@Flight_Follower ya think . 😩
I want to know what flight instructor and FAA examiner signed off on her check ride? clueless pilot. amazing she didnt un alive herself up there.
WOw! What the hell is going on in the skies nowadays????
It's hard to say, given that the recording does not include what happened before he decoded to "make" her land at his airport. Also, this happened at least 12 years ago.
Get off her case she just came from the border
Can you please mute the numbers instead of using the beep? I listen with headphones, and you blew off my scalp!
Sincere apologies,sir!
We will keep that in mind
How does someone like this pass a checkride?
She's a cute Asian girl. Next question. 🤣
That was scary.
Yeah 🥲
Possible tbi is my guess
Hopefully not another TNFLYGIRL incident.
Wow.... that controller is way outside his authority. Unbelieveable.
Nope. He's well within his authority, granted by the FAA. Look it up.
Why bother posting half a story
Sorry, but this video doesn't show any incompetence on behalf of the pilot. The title is extremely misleading. All i see is a controller who keeps scolding a pilot for no apparent reason and then has the audacity to ask her to land at an unfamiliar airport which was not her destination. Controllers do not have such authority. Where exactly did he get the idea he can do that?? Power trips are dangerous. He then scolds her again on the ground, after having forced her to land at an airport she was not prepared for, because she did not know her way around. Is he alright?
All i see here is a jerk harassing a pilot, which should be the correct title for this video. By the way, she should have continued to her destination and ignore his "order" to land. And if he had a problem with that, he should go ahead and file a report, see who is laughing.
You sound like a true cuck, ya know that? 🤦🖕
How did this person qualify for a private pilot certificate? DEI perhaps?
Charles: Given the direction of the country it's possible.
Looking through the forum posts back in 2012 when this happened it’s hard to find any details of what exactly she did wrong but it’s certainly not a DEI thing since that’s just a fear mongering tactic. Its possible the mistakes she made were minor and this airport is just staffed with people that are going to be extra harsh, I mean the ground controller was frustrated she was unfamiliar with the airport taxi ways even though there’s no reason she would’ve studied and known all of the taxi ways since she never planned on parking there.
Slim: Thanks for your thoughts.
So your not in a plane right now?
Vatsim be like