Own deer camps in northern Michigan and southern Oklahoma. Both are mostly timber with mostly close in shots under 50 yards. All the stands and blinds are set up for close in archery. About 20 years ago started shooting most (not all) deer in head or upper neck, when rifle hunting. When my son started rifle deer hunting, taught him the behind the shoulder, heart shot. Same with my oldest grandson. Both have been successful bagging deer with this hold. My grandson likes his 308 Win with the 150 gr. SP Interlock with a mild charge of IMR4895. This load normally passes through a broadside shot with good wound damage. Have only recovered one from a deer carcass, it expanded nicely like a mushroom. I prefer the 30-30 Win with a nice scope and medium charge of W748 with a 170 gr. FN Interlock. Again, this load normally passes through a broadside shot with good wound damage. This was also my son's load. Never recovered any of these from a deer. For my deer hunting the Hornady Interlock bullets have done the job for about 5 decades, thank you. For coyotes and hogs we kill them on sight, cartridge and bullet placement is not as important.
Being primarily a coyote hunter, 45:12 is pretty accurate. In my opinion, hunting a predator is more challenging then hunting a prey species. I actually wouldn't mind you guys talking more about yote hunting.
Ballisticstudies has an article called "Effective Game Killing" that advocates for what they call the "forward shoulder shot", which is about midway up the body and lined up with the front line of the leg. Is that what you're referring to as the "high shoulder shot"?
Shot my buck first light opening morning last year, accidental hi shoulder shot on the far side. The deer reared up on its hind legs, flipped over backwards, kicked 2x on its back on the ground, done. Hi shoulder is my new go-to placement.
I taught my son when he started hunting whitetail in MN to always shoot for the far shoulder. Either goes through the vitals and breaks the opposite shoulder or breaks both shoulders. We hunt in thick brush and tall swamp grass. Anchoring them where they stand is a must. He shoots .450 bushmaster black 250 gr FTX and I shoot .30-06 superformace 150 SST. We’ve never lost a deer with combination.
As some others have said, there's a balloon of lung/heart in the chest of a big game animal and I'm doing whatever I need to do to put my bullet through the middle of that balloon. Shot angles don't change that, and I want a good margin of error if possible. On a broadside deer, I'm automatically going to tuck that bullet tight behind the shoulder (private land). On pigs, I'm going to try to center the shoulder or center the neck, depending on how much the animal is moving around. I want them down on the ground, as pigs are far harder to drag out than deer!
I got a 300 PRC and shoot 190 CX’s for a reason. No matter what shot opportunity I have I draw a line straight through the most vitals and press the trigger.
Behind the shoulder on deer. Never has failed me and they seldom even take a step. My midwest meat hunting has been limited to deer using either Hornady SST slugs from a rifled slug gun, or the last few years with Hornady Black 450 Bushmaster. In both cases my shots are almost always across farm fields at between 100 and 170 yards. The SSTs always did the job but I found a lot of fragmentation, one pass thru and just pieces the other four projectiles. The 450 Bushmasters have mostly been going right thru. In neither caliber, eight examples so far, have I found an intact bullet. That's five SST kills and three 450. I chose the SSTs because they were far and away the most accurate sabots I tried. The 450 Bush seems to have just as much stopping power but better accuracy than the slug gun... and less recoil. Past 70, that becomes more important. And good optics!
I started hunting SE whitetail with standard boilerroom behind the shoulder and had good success shooting 308Win 150gr SSTs. But then I had 2 deer where I know I had good broadside shots and followed the blood trail for a long way but never found them - was very frustrated. Complained on GON hunting forum and a couple guys suggested the high shoulder shot for a "drop 'em there" experience. It was noted that an SST was not a good bullet for the high shoulder shot. Shooting intentionally at the shoulder bone needed a bonded or solid bullet. I switched to a bonded bullet (non Hornady) and used the high shoulder shot and had immediate success with a nice 8-point - absolutely didn't move a step. I am heading to western elk hunt in October and my intention is a high shoulder shot using Hornady Outfitter 7mm PRC 160gr CX solids.
I used to aim for a broadside behind the shoulder shot, but now I aim for the top of the vital V. Strait up the leg, lower one third (provided the deer is true broadside). Otherwise Im aiming to put the bullet/arrow through the heart at whatever angle on the animal that requires.
Meat is why I hunt. High shoulder shot if I can get it. I have put down whitetail in the New Hampshire woods with 50 cal Hawken, high shoulder shot, when it presented itself. No meat damage, and no deer lost in the thick woods.
If I can almost assure a heart shot, I’m taking it. I have never needed to take a high shoulder shot, but I have. I like being able to drop them, makes tracking easier…. This year is my first year using anything other than TTSX bullets.. I’m taking both ELDX and CX. You talk a big game Hornady…. Im counting on your bullets to live up to it come November.
I live in nother idaho and hunt white tail deer and i use is a ruger ranch 7.62x39mm horiday black SST 124 grain and a 300 black out with the horniday subX 110 grain out of an ruger ranch with a magpul stock on it. I love thous tow cartridges for deer. My wife hunts with a ruger amarican 270 win with a pencil barrel Using Corner day, v max I don't remember the grain weight. Off the top of my head. That's also an awesome cartridge for deer. See, drops and write where they stand she's only had 2 run off, but they didn't go far. Now in shop placement for me. I tried to do shoulder or spine shots. Always drops them where they stand. My wife always does just behind the shoulder heart shots. I try not to take those shots because it always pops the heart and That's one of my favorite parts of the deer.
Time to recreate the old bullet that Winchester used in the Failsafe! I loved this bullet as it allowed me to shoot just about anything WHEREVER I wanted including full length body shots on big mature northern whitetails!
I primarily hunt whitetail between pine thickets in the southeast (sendero style) and like to put them down immediately if possible so i like the high shoulder shot given the option but i agree with Matt’s philosophy and will take the first good shot i have as they normally don’t give you a lot of time to procrastinate looking down the narrow openings between the thick stuff. Coyotes don’t always get quite as much attention to detail but i like one shot kills on everything as often as possible. Choose your bullet wisely too because searching for a poorly hit whitetail in thick cover is not a fun place to be,making a little bleat or noise with your mouth will normally give you time for a stationary shot on your animal
I'm trying the high shoulder this year! 'm sort of new to hunting. Just recently started to take it seriously as a harvester. I live off of game meat now. I'm not picky on shot placement. Tho I prefer the neck because they drop where they stand. If the shot is difficult, I'll aim behind the shoulder to give me some room for error. The neck shot is also nice cause it makes the gutting part cleaner and easier.
Behind the shoulder most often. Ive always considered meat damage. But all points are valid. The situation dictates placement often times times especially up here in the northeast woods. Close quarter hunting on Moving deer in brush or thick woods etc. Seemingly is pretty normal.
How about us in the straight walled states? I’m either using a .44 mag XTP or a Winchester 180 PP. I’m primarily a bow hunter so behind the shoulder is my tendency
In the low country of South Carolina, our deer season starts wide open on day 1 😂 (archery, shotguns, muzzleloader, and rifle and also deer hound running) starts August 15th and ends janurary 1st every year
I hunt deer in michigan with a 450 bushmaster. I have chosen to shoot non lead bullets and i am patiently waiting for an all copper bullet from you guys. (Please) i also use a 130 cx in a 270 and i shoot for the top of the heart i try to wait for a quartering a way shot.
Upper Peninsula deer hunter here. Thick forest limits my shots to, roughly, 50 yards. I use a 12 gauge shotgun with a slug and have a scope mounted. I practice, a lot, until I'm confident with accuracy. Still, I limit my shots to the vitals behind the shoulder and usually get good blood trails. One buck dropped immediately, another ran for quite a distance (that shot was higher in vitals than the one that dropped.) Shot a Mule deer in Montana two years ago with a Weatherby 257 magnum. It was a broadside shot at 150 yards. Aim was behind shoulder in the vitals. Mule deer dropped in its tracks.
I took a roughly 400 yard shot on a nice mule-deer buck a number of years ago. It was chest-on with a 200gr ELD-X at ~2850 MV, he turned to run and fell right over. I found the bullet under the skin of the inside rear right leg, perfect mushroom.
I mostly hunt whitetail and for me it’s the behind the shoulder shot as much as I can. I shoot a 7mm-08 using the deadliest mushroom in the woods, the Remington core-lokt at 140g. Those core-lokt are devastating but as I’ve matured in my hunting I’ve been looking to move towards a monolithic(probably the CX 140g) because it allows a little more versatility in shot placement with a little less meat damage because those core-lokt are like a grenade going off inside an animal. I hunt for meat and the less meat damage I can do is what I consider usually, wherever I can slip that bullet in for the quickest kill with minimal meat damage.
The honey hole is straight up the leg, lower one third. The vital V. Nothing but ribs, heart, major arteries and largest lobes of the lungs. The heart is not behind the crease. It lays low in the chest between the legs.
The shoulder shot provides a better margin of error than the behind the shoulder shot. Sure, the rear lungs and heart are located behind the shoulder. But if the shot lands too far back, it’s a liver, or gut shot. If you aim for the shoulder and miss toward the rear, you’ll hit the rear lungs or heart. If you miss forward of the shoulder, there’s a bundle of nerves in the chest which, especially if hit with a frangible bullet, will anchor the animal. Many hunters use your ELD-Ms for hunting because they know how deadly a bullet that comes apart inside an animal is. A flattened jacket with no core material, recovered from the offside skin, is not evidence of bullet failure, but none of you guys would proudly display such a thing on your desk at work. If you want penetration, even through a shoulder, use a bullet with enough lead in it, such as a 200+ grain 30 cal. The 300PRC is tailor made for such projectiles, but a 30-06 will stabilize the heavies just fine. I can’t believe your employer makes you hunt with CXs out of a pea shooter cartridge like the 6.5CM. Why? You’re not hunting in California. They must hope you’ll recover one that didn’t pencil through as a conversation piece for the office.
🤔 Broadside, Heart & Lung Shot! But, Yes, It Depends Upon The Species, Caliber, and Bullet That You Are Using (I.E. It Is "Situation Dependent") and Where You Are Hunting! 🎯
Yup it’s here. Got my archery mule deer sept.3. Nice 170 class buck. For me it’s behind the shoulder for the reason of saving meat but I have taken one high shoulder on purpose just to keep that deer from going all the way to the bottom of a deep coulee. So situational.
Ive hunted deer and hogs since 1994. I was taught to shoot behind the shoulder. I learned to shoot high shoulder around 2003 when I began hunting public land and needed a critter to stop DRT. A shot that goes high is a spinal instakill, a low shot breaks the shoulders, a little back is lungs and too forward is a clean miss. It just makes sense to me. Hogs are a neck/head junction shot if you can get it. TTSX or CX bullets all day.
I've only shot two deer. One last year and one the year before and I shot both behind the shoulder at close range. I guess I try to visualize the heart and lungs internally and then get a bullet there somehow. Using my very first hunting rifle, my Model 94 in 307 Winchester with 150 gr FP two years ago and a 450 Bushmaster AR with a 250 gr bullet last year right through the upper heart, taking out both lungs. Have hunted my whole life, but never took it seriously until two years ago when I turned 50. Now, I'm hooked.
Watched a guy hit a whitetail with a .223 last year at 327 yards. High shoulder. Deer went straight down. Bullet went through both shoulders and the spine. But, if you want to aim somewhere stupid, you better have a 7mm Mag.
I am typically a behind the shoulder shooter for cow elk and doe deer. Just thinking about the meat. 90% of my hunting is public land in Wyoming at distances 400yds and in.
I mainly go after whitetails with a .270 and .308. I go for the shoulder, only had one deer run and that was downhill. Use .22 for woodchucks and the .270 for coyotes.
Brachial Plexus. Every mammal has one. And yes, that's high on the shoulder. Shoulder bone adds shrapnel as well. It's also known as "the off switch"...
My dad taught me with a marginal weapon like a bow or a 30-30 go behind the front shoulder and with a big gun like a 7mm mag hit the front shoulder joint. My most recent deer I shot with my cut down 16" .270win I hit behind the front shoulder and it worked great. Foot wide blood trail to the deer 40 yards away.
New hunter, 2 years in, behind the shoulder. I shoot anything from 6.5 creed to 28 Nosler. This is bc of our tiny Texas sized deer don’t won’t to waste an oz of meat. I’ll be trying high shoulder this year, for sure.
Off subject, sorry. I've held a resentment against Hornady for concentrating on long range matters and needle-shaped projectiles while discontinuing my favorite bullet for my 9X57: the 250 grain round nose .358. I feel better now, as I found a source in Midsouth. There's no arguing against your paying closest attention to the hottest market, as long as you don't leave us dinosaurs behind. I probably shouldn't confess this, but to me some catridges just look "proper" with round noses.
I shoot behind shoulder, on all game, that's how I was taught. Hunting mostley roedeer and fallow deer. International custom ammunition in 6,5x55 or 308W interlock.
Great podcast. I prefer to hunt with monometal projectiles in my 30-06 and 7mm-08. I like the shoulder shot to anchor the deer, particularly if I am hunting in thick cover here in Central Kentucky. The shoulder shot tends to hit them like a bolt of lightning. On another note, I shot a coyote while deer hunting last season with a 250 gr. SST on the shoulder at 35 yards with my muzzleloader. It did not fare well for the coyote. He spun around twice and dropped.
Hey guys! Love your stuff! Great products at Hornady and great content on podcasts. 1 thing, when y’all NEVER name any other brand of bullets it makes me wonder if you try/test them at all. Just curious.
I've taken down a couple of deer with a rifle chambered in 243 Winchester and neither of them went real far before expiring and now I am looking at buying a Thompson Center Encore handgun chamber in 243 Winchester.
High (front) shoulder, close to the spine but just underneath where the neck spine (meets) the back spine. Generally in that six inch circle. Deer, Elk, bear and much anything else.
Scenarios. Always preplanned as many Se arias as possible. In the Military you do that so that you can plan for as many what ifs as possible, It’s practice for your minsd to already have a plan ahead of time. I do it with my wife and it has made her a better hunter.
Shot 2 deer last year with a muzzleloader, both quartering toward me. Deer 1, buck 300grn flex tip. Right side C-D 4 hit. bullet stopped by his left testicle. He ran with a broken shoulder 200 yards. Deer 2 , doe B-C 4 right side hit , bullet stopped just under the skin left side just in front of rear hip probably didn't run 75 yards.
Deer hunter New York & Maine. If I had a bullet that would dump it’s energy, I would sacrifice the neck roast. They tend to go right down, no running and tracking, and no adrenaline! I shared this with my boss who was doing a black bear hunt. Out of 8 sports who shot a bear, his was the only one that stayed where they were shot ! It dumps energy and short circuits the nervous system !
I always shoot for the heart and I've only missed it on one animal that I've shot. It's the least meat loss and fastest (high percentage of success) incapacitation (thereby the most humane, in my opinion). It's a relatively easy shot broadside, quartering to, or quartering away... you don't even need to hit it directly; so long as you're close, the cavitation will destroy it. In every occasion, I've dropped the animal within two steps of the spot where I hit it. The only time I've ever had to follow a blood trail and track an animal was the one mule deer that I single lunged, but missed the heart, because it started to turn toward me just as I was breaking the shot. Personally, I am completely against the high shoulder shot. It wastes meat and (again, in my opinion) is less humane.
I had shot for behind the shoulder for many years. My dad is a neck shot guy. Most of his hunting has always been a shotgun. Of course, now I am a more high shoulder and neck with shotgun or rifle. That is on deer as for as rabbit, squirrel, and and birds with shotgun I am for the head. Dad has always been like a surgeon with a shotgun but anything except his 22lr rifle he has had trouble with. The only game animal I have seen dad miss with his shotgun is dove in the dove field while flying through the air. Now flush them like quail, and they don't stand a chance. I am 50 now and dad is 77 . He doesn't hunt much anymore, but with a shotgun in his hand, he is more than capable still. However, his mobility is not good. We live in South Carolina
I've always shot behind the shoulder. That's what I was taught in hunter safety. It has always resulted in a dead animal, but I've never "dropped" an animal. This year I'll be hunting with a 143 eldx, 6.5PRC, and I'm trying a high shoulder shot.
On closer shots I go higher lungs to minimize meat damage, followed by behind shoulder. I have dropped several deer in their track with these shots with 7mm08, 243, and 6.5 Creedmoor from 20 to 125 yds.
I shoot behind shoulder i use 35Rem 200gr FTX or my 308 eldx from my BLR depends what stand im in for witch rifle i use The reason why It's because every deer target I ever shot since I was a kid had that area circled
I always try to hit the vital organs, the neck is not one of those so I don’t practice “texas heart shots,” instead I focus on drawing a line through the body from the actual heart to the side facing me and aim for there or slightly above there so the bullet “drops” into the heart as it traverses the thoracic cavity. On Coyote Hunting I agree that we should be hunting them but there needs to be a method to the process or it could result in more harm than good. Coyotes are unlike most predators they have a fecundity, or successful reproductive rate, that increases with heavy “predation pressure” (or hunting/trapping reassure) on their population and decreases with “saturation” of their habitat. Thus the less Coyotes in an area the more babies they make and more that are hunted (by man or wolves) the more they make, so for fawn and other ungulate protection you need to either keep really high hunting pressure to drop their numbers long term or target specific time periods in order to save prey species from coyote predation. This is what used to make coyote competitions such a great management tool for game managers as they could be held during times and area’s where Antelope, Deer, or other prey species were dropping young extra vulnerable young (fawns or poults) to knock that coyote population down hard and keep them from preying on that young until they were larger and better able to avoid Coyote predation. In states and regions that have buckled to Anti-hunter pressure and banned those contests there is no longer that pressure, the same goes for trapping, which again allows random hunting pressure to kick in the higher reproductive response, but not enough to keep the population down or reduce it. If you do a podcast on Coyote hunting I highly recommend getting a Wildlife Biologist, wildlife manager, or Coyote predation specialized Biologist to be on to explain this issue and the best methods to hunt them to save fawns and poults. I think it would be a good podcast, and would offer some good information both on the behavior and methods to the shooting and hunting population at large. Also if you are doing the coyote hunting in wolf area’s you have to be a little more careful, I live in Arizona along the NM border and the “Mexican” subspecies introduced here can be similar in appearance coat wise with overall size, along with shape and size of the muzzle and ear’s being the main differences. This has had a chilling effect on coyote hunting in the area’s of Arizona and New Mexico where these wolves have been introduced since you don’t always have that long period and opportunity to see all of the “features” that separate them in a couple of second exposure. Many guys I know that used to hunt coyotes have quite because they don’t want to risk hitting a wolf and facing federal ESA violation charges, so they only hunt in the low deserts or not at all..
Well the buck was on the move but the 30-06 150gr CX went in at the last rib an out the front shoulder. It made the vitals like blended jello. I shot the deer at about 80 yards an it ran 75 ish yards an was stone dead. The impact was in the gut but still went half the length of deer. I took same shot angle on a black buck antelope at 125 yards. The bullet was 178 gr eldx with 30-06. Went in last rib a bullet stopped in the fur on front shoulder. Nice perfect mushroom. I still have bullet. The antelope ran about 100 yards an was dead. These aren’t my typical shot placements but happened twice in same year. Just remember when you enter rear gut and bullet stops in the fur there is not a blood trail. The ammo done exactly what it was supposed to do. The vitals was destroyed.
I just dropped a hog high shoulder after watching this. 162gr ELD-X 6.5cre. In fill dark. I shot at his shadow and imagined my reticle since I could see the outside. Dropped in his tracks. Both shoulders and his spine. I have all of the pics showing internal damage. I am sold. This was 30 minutes before first light.
It depends. A well supported shot where you cannot afford to let the animal jump the fence? High shoulder. If yo are walking along and see a shot have to do it off hand, aim for behind the shoulder.
Fox. Like to shoot behind shoulder. Bigger target area. Doesn't always drop on spot...can run up to 100 yards... If shot Infront of shoulder...fox drops on spot. Of course...if the head is the only target as it hides in grass ... If hard pressed...and fox is heading away...at a closer range....a round up the chute is sent. Feels sketchy...but...drops them on the spot. 17rem 204 Sometimes 270 with 90gn...shot placement not so critical then ..under 200 yards ..
I was with you guys until it was said that to drop an animal immediately you have to disrupt the central nervous system. That is untrue. While I agree that is the best way it is not the only way. I have dropped close to a hundred Texas whitetail with a 55gr pointed soft point from my 22-250 in their tracks with a behind the shoulder shot. The bullet will usually be found in the hide of the off shoulder.
Raised up to wait out the shot because it's better to make the shot matter than to spend you day/night tracking a poor shot placement. The margin for error in a lung/heart kill is far greater under stress. Guys who brag about spine or neck shots take the risks of calling in a blood tracking dog or standing over a pile of hair with the story of how they hit it.
I grew up in a time where emphasis was placed on getting close to your target and aim for a target inside the animal. I'm halfway through the podcast and you have not touched on the following. When you hit the central nervous system the animal shuts off and a lot of blood is 'locked' inside the muscles if you cannot get to the animal in quick time. A lung shot (behind the shoulder) allows for a lot of blood to be pumped out of the system. The result is much better table fair. I think the traditional behind the shoulder shot and it's popularity is rooted in the certainty of it and better table fair which is not generally explained nowadays... enjoy the hunting season!
I hit a big bull elk with a berger 30-06 perfect broadside, it locked its knees out and never fell, it died standing. I thought it was one of the robot elk. We called it in, went over to get it and it was standing up in the snow, blood all around it.
All of the hunting I’ve done is to harvest meat. Usually we hunt deer and moose. I’m First Nation from Canada. So my dad always told me to go for neck or brain for a quick kill. Most shots are within 100 yards. Anything further would be lung shot. We believe we owe that animal a quick death because they gave themselves up for us. People around here use to and still rely on hunting for food. I’ve heard stories people would use something like .22 right behind the ear. Personally I wouldn’t try a shot like that but like I said some people needed food.
unless its a head shot im ALWAYS shooting for the heart. "just put it behind the shoulder" is not optimal in the real world. animals are 3 dimensional targets that twist, turn and move. you have to aim for where the vitals are depending on their stance. not where bone structure is
An episode on the lightest ,fastest pills...ie..55gn 243...75gn 25cal.... Flatest trajectory Wind bucking BC relevance.. Under 400, 450 yards... For light varmint...fox hunting..not much info about for that... Most focus is on deer etc and prs...it seems.
Own deer camps in northern Michigan and southern Oklahoma. Both are mostly timber with mostly close in shots under 50 yards. All the stands and blinds are set up for close in archery. About 20 years ago started shooting most (not all) deer in head or upper neck, when rifle hunting.
When my son started rifle deer hunting, taught him the behind the shoulder, heart shot. Same with my oldest grandson. Both have been successful bagging deer with this hold.
My grandson likes his 308 Win with the 150 gr. SP Interlock with a mild charge of IMR4895. This load normally passes through a broadside shot with good wound damage. Have only recovered one from a deer carcass, it expanded nicely like a mushroom.
I prefer the 30-30 Win with a nice scope and medium charge of W748 with a 170 gr. FN Interlock. Again, this load normally passes through a broadside shot with good wound damage. This was also my son's load. Never recovered any of these from a deer.
For my deer hunting the Hornady Interlock bullets have done the job for about 5 decades, thank you.
For coyotes and hogs we kill them on sight, cartridge and bullet placement is not as important.
Being primarily a coyote hunter, 45:12 is pretty accurate. In my opinion, hunting a predator is more challenging then hunting a prey species. I actually wouldn't mind you guys talking more about yote hunting.
👍 I Am Glad to Hear You Point Out That "Energy" Alone Isn't What Kills the Animal! 😃
Ballisticstudies has an article called "Effective Game Killing" that advocates for what they call the "forward shoulder shot", which is about midway up the body and lined up with the front line of the leg. Is that what you're referring to as the "high shoulder shot"?
Shot my buck first light opening morning last year, accidental hi shoulder shot on the far side. The deer reared up on its hind legs, flipped over backwards, kicked 2x on its back on the ground, done. Hi shoulder is my new go-to placement.
I taught my son when he started hunting whitetail in MN to always shoot for the far shoulder. Either goes through the vitals and breaks the opposite shoulder or breaks both shoulders. We hunt in thick brush and tall swamp grass. Anchoring them where they stand is a must. He shoots .450 bushmaster black 250 gr FTX and I shoot .30-06 superformace 150 SST. We’ve never lost a deer with combination.
As some others have said, there's a balloon of lung/heart in the chest of a big game animal and I'm doing whatever I need to do to put my bullet through the middle of that balloon. Shot angles don't change that, and I want a good margin of error if possible. On a broadside deer, I'm automatically going to tuck that bullet tight behind the shoulder (private land). On pigs, I'm going to try to center the shoulder or center the neck, depending on how much the animal is moving around. I want them down on the ground, as pigs are far harder to drag out than deer!
Thanks for the video.
You are welcome!
I got a 300 PRC and shoot 190 CX’s for a reason. No matter what shot opportunity I have I draw a line straight through the most vitals and press the trigger.
Behind the shoulder on deer. Never has failed me and they seldom even take a step. My midwest meat hunting has been limited to deer using either Hornady SST slugs from a rifled slug gun, or the last few years with Hornady Black 450 Bushmaster. In both cases my shots are almost always across farm fields at between 100 and 170 yards. The SSTs always did the job but I found a lot of fragmentation, one pass thru and just pieces the other four projectiles. The 450 Bushmasters have mostly been going right thru. In neither caliber, eight examples so far, have I found an intact bullet. That's five SST kills and three 450. I chose the SSTs because they were far and away the most accurate sabots I tried. The 450 Bush seems to have just as much stopping power but better accuracy than the slug gun... and less recoil. Past 70, that becomes more important. And good optics!
On deer, I use behind the leg - heart/lungs. Big target and always had good results. I did take one neck shot, and it dropped in its tracks.
I started hunting SE whitetail with standard boilerroom behind the shoulder and had good success shooting 308Win 150gr SSTs. But then I had 2 deer where I know I had good broadside shots and followed the blood trail for a long way but never found them - was very frustrated. Complained on GON hunting forum and a couple guys suggested the high shoulder shot for a "drop 'em there" experience. It was noted that an SST was not a good bullet for the high shoulder shot. Shooting intentionally at the shoulder bone needed a bonded or solid bullet. I switched to a bonded bullet (non Hornady) and used the high shoulder shot and had immediate success with a nice 8-point - absolutely didn't move a step. I am heading to western elk hunt in October and my intention is a high shoulder shot using Hornady Outfitter 7mm PRC 160gr CX solids.
I used to aim for a broadside behind the shoulder shot, but now I aim for the top of the vital V. Strait up the leg, lower one third (provided the deer is true broadside). Otherwise Im aiming to put the bullet/arrow through the heart at whatever angle on the animal that requires.
Meat is why I hunt. High shoulder shot if I can get it. I have put down whitetail in the New Hampshire woods with 50 cal Hawken, high shoulder shot, when it presented itself. No meat damage, and no deer lost in the thick woods.
If I can almost assure a heart shot, I’m taking it. I have never needed to take a high shoulder shot, but I have. I like being able to drop them, makes tracking easier…. This year is my first year using anything other than TTSX bullets.. I’m taking both ELDX and CX. You talk a big game Hornady…. Im counting on your bullets to live up to it come November.
Thumbs up for those who got the North American song bird slam.
I live in nother idaho and hunt white tail deer and i use is a ruger ranch 7.62x39mm horiday black SST 124 grain and a 300 black out with the horniday subX 110 grain out of an ruger ranch with a magpul stock on it. I love thous tow cartridges for deer. My wife hunts with a ruger amarican 270 win with a pencil barrel Using Corner day, v max I don't remember the grain weight. Off the top of my head. That's also an awesome cartridge for deer. See, drops and write where they stand she's only had 2 run off, but they didn't go far. Now in shop placement for me. I tried to do shoulder or spine shots. Always drops them where they stand. My wife always does just behind the shoulder heart shots. I try not to take those shots because it always pops the heart and That's one of my favorite parts of the deer.
Time to recreate the old bullet that Winchester used in the Failsafe!
I loved this bullet as it allowed me to shoot just about anything WHEREVER I wanted including full length body shots on big mature northern whitetails!
Hummer hunter bullets
I primarily hunt whitetail between pine thickets in the southeast (sendero style) and like to put them down immediately if possible so i like the high shoulder shot given the option but i agree with Matt’s philosophy and will take the first good shot i have as they normally don’t give you a lot of time to procrastinate looking down the narrow openings between the thick stuff. Coyotes don’t always get quite as much attention to detail but i like one shot kills on everything as often as possible. Choose your bullet wisely too because searching for a poorly hit whitetail in thick cover is not a fun place to be,making a little bleat or noise with your mouth will normally give you time for a stationary shot on your animal
I'm trying the high shoulder this year! 'm sort of new to hunting. Just recently started to take it seriously as a harvester. I live off of game meat now. I'm not picky on shot placement. Tho I prefer the neck because they drop where they stand. If the shot is difficult, I'll aim behind the shoulder to give me some room for error. The neck shot is also nice cause it makes the gutting part cleaner and easier.
Behind the shoulder most often. Ive always considered meat damage. But all points are valid. The situation dictates placement often times times especially up here in the northeast woods. Close quarter hunting on Moving deer in brush or thick woods etc. Seemingly is pretty normal.
How about us in the straight walled states? I’m either using a .44 mag XTP or a Winchester 180 PP. I’m primarily a bow hunter so behind the shoulder is my tendency
.350 legend for that 180
.280 AI...good bullet...proper placement....good day
👍
Oh yeah baby!!!
In the low country of South Carolina, our deer season starts wide open on day 1 😂 (archery, shotguns, muzzleloader, and rifle and also deer hound running) starts August 15th and ends janurary 1st every year
BEHIND Shoulder.... as always correct caliber and bullet for the job
I hunt deer in michigan with a 450 bushmaster. I have chosen to shoot non lead bullets and i am patiently waiting for an all copper bullet from you guys. (Please) i also use a 130 cx in a 270 and i shoot for the top of the heart i try to wait for a quartering a way shot.
Upper Peninsula deer hunter here. Thick forest limits my shots to, roughly, 50 yards. I use a 12 gauge shotgun with a slug and have a scope mounted. I practice, a lot, until I'm confident with accuracy. Still, I limit my shots to the vitals behind the shoulder and usually get good blood trails. One buck dropped immediately, another ran for quite a distance (that shot was higher in vitals than the one that dropped.)
Shot a Mule deer in Montana two years ago with a Weatherby 257 magnum. It was a broadside shot at 150 yards. Aim was behind shoulder in the vitals. Mule deer dropped in its tracks.
I took a roughly 400 yard shot on a nice mule-deer buck a number of years ago. It was chest-on with a 200gr ELD-X at ~2850 MV, he turned to run and fell right over. I found the bullet under the skin of the inside rear right leg, perfect mushroom.
The guys at Hornady looks like a great bunch of dudes.
I mostly hunt whitetail and for me it’s the behind the shoulder shot as much as I can. I shoot a 7mm-08 using the deadliest mushroom in the woods, the Remington core-lokt at 140g. Those core-lokt are devastating but as I’ve matured in my hunting I’ve been looking to move towards a monolithic(probably the CX 140g) because it allows a little more versatility in shot placement with a little less meat damage because those core-lokt are like a grenade going off inside an animal. I hunt for meat and the less meat damage I can do is what I consider usually, wherever I can slip that bullet in for the quickest kill with minimal meat damage.
The honey hole is straight up the leg, lower one third. The vital V. Nothing but ribs, heart, major arteries and largest lobes of the lungs. The heart is not behind the crease. It lays low in the chest between the legs.
The shoulder shot provides a better margin of error than the behind the shoulder shot. Sure, the rear lungs and heart are located behind the shoulder. But if the shot lands too far back, it’s a liver, or gut shot. If you aim for the shoulder and miss toward the rear, you’ll hit the rear lungs or heart. If you miss forward of the shoulder, there’s a bundle of nerves in the chest which, especially if hit with a frangible bullet, will anchor the animal. Many hunters use your ELD-Ms for hunting because they know how deadly a bullet that comes apart inside an animal is. A flattened jacket with no core material, recovered from the offside skin, is not evidence of bullet failure, but none of you guys would proudly display such a thing on your desk at work. If you want penetration, even through a shoulder, use a bullet with enough lead in it, such as a 200+ grain 30 cal. The 300PRC is tailor made for such projectiles, but a 30-06 will stabilize the heavies just fine. I can’t believe your employer makes you hunt with CXs out of a pea shooter cartridge like the 6.5CM. Why? You’re not hunting in California. They must hope you’ll recover one that didn’t pencil through as a conversation piece for the office.
🤔 Broadside, Heart & Lung Shot! But, Yes, It Depends Upon The Species, Caliber, and Bullet That You Are Using (I.E. It Is "Situation Dependent") and Where You Are Hunting! 🎯
Yup it’s here. Got my archery mule deer sept.3. Nice 170 class buck. For me it’s behind the shoulder for the reason of saving meat but I have taken one high shoulder on purpose just to keep that deer from going all the way to the bottom of a deep coulee. So situational.
Right on
Bow season opener this weekend in GA.
Ive hunted deer and hogs since 1994. I was taught to shoot behind the shoulder. I learned to shoot high shoulder around 2003 when I began hunting public land and needed a critter to stop DRT.
A shot that goes high is a spinal instakill, a low shot breaks the shoulders, a little back is lungs and too forward is a clean miss. It just makes sense to me.
Hogs are a neck/head junction shot if you can get it. TTSX or CX bullets all day.
I've only shot two deer. One last year and one the year before and I shot both behind the shoulder at close range. I guess I try to visualize the heart and lungs internally and then get a bullet there somehow. Using my very first hunting rifle, my Model 94 in 307 Winchester with 150 gr FP two years ago and a 450 Bushmaster AR with a 250 gr bullet last year right through the upper heart, taking out both lungs. Have hunted my whole life, but never took it seriously until two years ago when I turned 50. Now, I'm hooked.
Watched a guy hit a whitetail with a .223 last year at 327 yards. High shoulder. Deer went straight down. Bullet went through both shoulders and the spine. But, if you want to aim somewhere stupid, you better have a 7mm Mag.
I am typically a behind the shoulder shooter for cow elk and doe deer. Just thinking about the meat. 90% of my hunting is public land in Wyoming at distances 400yds and in.
I mainly go after whitetails with a .270 and .308. I go for the shoulder, only had one deer run and that was downhill. Use .22 for woodchucks and the .270 for coyotes.
308 or 60-06 150gr or 165gr GMX Deer, Pigs and Foxes, if possible with a high shoulder shot.
I do not like to look for them.
That quote was from saving private Ryan
💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
Brachial Plexus. Every mammal has one. And yes, that's high on the shoulder. Shoulder bone adds shrapnel as well. It's also known as "the off switch"...
My dad taught me with a marginal weapon like a bow or a 30-30 go behind the front shoulder and with a big gun like a 7mm mag hit the front shoulder joint. My most recent deer I shot with my cut down 16" .270win I hit behind the front shoulder and it worked great. Foot wide blood trail to the deer 40 yards away.
New hunter, 2 years in, behind the shoulder. I shoot anything from 6.5 creed to 28 Nosler. This is bc of our tiny Texas sized deer don’t won’t to waste an oz of meat. I’ll be trying high shoulder this year, for sure.
As a South African... I go engine room, warthogs will run for hours and Blouwildebees you'll never see again.
Off subject, sorry. I've held a resentment against Hornady for concentrating on long range matters and needle-shaped projectiles while discontinuing my favorite bullet for my 9X57: the 250 grain round nose .358. I feel better now, as I found a source in Midsouth. There's no arguing against your paying closest attention to the hottest market, as long as you don't leave us dinosaurs behind. I probably shouldn't confess this, but to me some catridges just look "proper" with round noses.
I want to ask yall a Question? what round do yall hunt wild HOGS WITH?
Deer - almost always heart/lung. Soft point. Biggest target, most margin of error. Taught in Hunters Safety. My 243 taught me how to blood trail.
I shoot behind shoulder, on all game, that's how I was taught. Hunting mostley roedeer and fallow deer. International custom ammunition in 6,5x55 or 308W interlock.
I'm to busy hunting ammo to hunt game ?
Great podcast. I prefer to hunt with monometal projectiles in my 30-06 and 7mm-08. I like the shoulder shot to anchor the deer, particularly if I am hunting in thick cover here in Central Kentucky. The shoulder shot tends to hit them like a bolt of lightning.
On another note, I shot a coyote while deer hunting last season with a 250 gr. SST on the shoulder at 35 yards with my muzzleloader. It did not fare well for the coyote. He spun around twice and dropped.
Hey guys! Love your stuff! Great products at Hornady and great content on podcasts. 1 thing, when y’all NEVER name any other brand of bullets it makes me wonder if you try/test them at all.
Just curious.
In northern idaho, we still have tons of turkeys.
Exactly, where is a high shoulder shot?
m.ruclips.net/video/b_x9vR_0KM8/видео.html&pp=ygUYSGkgc2hvdWxkZXIgc2hvdCBvbiBkZWVy
I've taken down a couple of deer with a rifle chambered in 243 Winchester and neither of them went real far before expiring and now I am looking at buying a Thompson Center Encore handgun chamber in 243 Winchester.
High (front) shoulder, close to the spine but just underneath where the neck spine (meets) the back spine. Generally in that six inch circle. Deer, Elk, bear and much anything else.
Scenarios. Always preplanned as many Se arias as possible. In the Military you do that so that you can plan for as many what ifs as possible,
It’s practice for your minsd to already have a plan ahead of time. I do it with my wife and it has made her a better hunter.
Shot 2 deer last year with a muzzleloader, both quartering toward me. Deer 1, buck 300grn flex tip. Right side C-D 4 hit. bullet stopped by his left testicle. He ran with a broken shoulder 200 yards. Deer 2 , doe B-C 4 right side hit , bullet stopped just under the skin left side just in front of rear hip probably didn't run 75 yards.
Deer hunter New York & Maine. If I had a bullet that would dump it’s energy, I would sacrifice the neck roast. They tend to go right down, no running and tracking, and no adrenaline!
I shared this with my boss who was doing a black bear hunt. Out of 8 sports who shot a bear, his was the only one that stayed where they were shot ! It dumps energy and short circuits the nervous system !
What about hydrostatic shock?
When is the cx a better choice than the eldx?
California only
I always shoot for the heart and I've only missed it on one animal that I've shot. It's the least meat loss and fastest (high percentage of success) incapacitation (thereby the most humane, in my opinion). It's a relatively easy shot broadside, quartering to, or quartering away... you don't even need to hit it directly; so long as you're close, the cavitation will destroy it. In every occasion, I've dropped the animal within two steps of the spot where I hit it. The only time I've ever had to follow a blood trail and track an animal was the one mule deer that I single lunged, but missed the heart, because it started to turn toward me just as I was breaking the shot. Personally, I am completely against the high shoulder shot. It wastes meat and (again, in my opinion) is less humane.
I had shot for behind the shoulder for many years. My dad is a neck shot guy. Most of his hunting has always been a shotgun. Of course, now I am a more high shoulder and neck with shotgun or rifle. That is on deer as for as rabbit, squirrel, and and birds with shotgun I am for the head. Dad has always been like a surgeon with a shotgun but anything except his 22lr rifle he has had trouble with. The only game animal I have seen dad miss with his shotgun is dove in the dove field while flying through the air. Now flush them like quail, and they don't stand a chance. I am 50 now and dad is 77 . He doesn't hunt much anymore, but with a shotgun in his hand, he is more than capable still. However, his mobility is not good. We live in South Carolina
I've always shot behind the shoulder. That's what I was taught in hunter safety. It has always resulted in a dead animal, but I've never "dropped" an animal. This year I'll be hunting with a 143 eldx, 6.5PRC, and I'm trying a high shoulder shot.
Straight up the leg lower 1/3. Angles put the path of the projectile on a line thru the blood vessels at the top of the heart.
The heart is the tastiest part tho
On closer shots I go higher lungs to minimize meat damage, followed by behind shoulder. I have dropped several deer in their track with these shots with 7mm08, 243, and 6.5 Creedmoor from 20 to 125 yds.
I shoot behind shoulder i use 35Rem 200gr FTX or my 308 eldx from my BLR depends what stand im in for witch rifle i use The reason why It's because every deer target I ever shot since I was a kid had that area circled
I took up hunting at 66 years old. Have just done matches. 2 deer last year. Behind the shoulder on private land with Hornady 6.5 Grendel SST 123 gr.
I always try to hit the vital organs, the neck is not one of those so I don’t practice “texas heart shots,” instead I focus on drawing a line through the body from the actual heart to the side facing me and aim for there or slightly above there so the bullet “drops” into the heart as it traverses the thoracic cavity.
On Coyote Hunting I agree that we should be hunting them but there needs to be a method to the process or it could result in more harm than good. Coyotes are unlike most predators they have a fecundity, or successful reproductive rate, that increases with heavy “predation pressure” (or hunting/trapping reassure) on their population and decreases with “saturation” of their habitat. Thus the less Coyotes in an area the more babies they make and more that are hunted (by man or wolves) the more they make, so for fawn and other ungulate protection you need to either keep really high hunting pressure to drop their numbers long term or target specific time periods in order to save prey species from coyote predation. This is what used to make coyote competitions such a great management tool for game managers as they could be held during times and area’s where Antelope, Deer, or other prey species were dropping young extra vulnerable young (fawns or poults) to knock that coyote population down hard and keep them from preying on that young until they were larger and better able to avoid Coyote predation. In states and regions that have buckled to Anti-hunter pressure and banned those contests there is no longer that pressure, the same goes for trapping, which again allows random hunting pressure to kick in the higher reproductive response, but not enough to keep the population down or reduce it.
If you do a podcast on Coyote hunting I highly recommend getting a Wildlife Biologist, wildlife manager, or Coyote predation specialized Biologist to be on to explain this issue and the best methods to hunt them to save fawns and poults. I think it would be a good podcast, and would offer some good information both on the behavior and methods to the shooting and hunting population at large.
Also if you are doing the coyote hunting in wolf area’s you have to be a little more careful, I live in Arizona along the NM border and the “Mexican” subspecies introduced here can be similar in appearance coat wise with overall size, along with shape and size of the muzzle and ear’s being the main differences. This has had a chilling effect on coyote hunting in the area’s of Arizona and New Mexico where these wolves have been introduced since you don’t always have that long period and opportunity to see all of the “features” that separate them in a couple of second exposure. Many guys I know that used to hunt coyotes have quite because they don’t want to risk hitting a wolf and facing federal ESA violation charges, so they only hunt in the low deserts or not at all..
Well the buck was on the move but the 30-06 150gr CX went in at the last rib an out the front shoulder. It made the vitals like blended jello. I shot the deer at about 80 yards an it ran 75 ish yards an was stone dead. The impact was in the gut but still went half the length of deer.
I took same shot angle on a black buck antelope at 125 yards. The bullet was 178 gr eldx with 30-06. Went in last rib a bullet stopped in the fur on front shoulder. Nice perfect mushroom. I still have bullet. The antelope ran about 100 yards an was dead. These aren’t my typical shot placements but happened twice in same year. Just remember when you enter rear gut and bullet stops in the fur there is not a blood trail. The ammo done exactly what it was supposed to do. The vitals was destroyed.
in SC 8-15-2023 opens
I use the Ballon theory, I picture a Ballon in the animals chest and any angle I'm at to the animal I try to shot thru the center of that ballon.
What about Bison?
Quartering to with a 250 gr SST on the point of the shoulder is magical.
I just dropped a hog high shoulder after watching this. 162gr ELD-X 6.5cre. In fill dark. I shot at his shadow and imagined my reticle since I could see the outside. Dropped in his tracks. Both shoulders and his spine. I have all of the pics showing internal damage. I am sold. This was 30 minutes before first light.
I recovered a 61 gr bulled in the hide with an exit hole of the rest of the bullet. Amazing.
A huge 6 poimt got killed uy a semi truck on interstate 80 in ne. I saw it happen.
Where the neck meets the body, I’ve always got great results. I don’t hunt a lot anymore so when I do go I’m kinda anal about the shot placement
I can tell you don’t hunt much, with that logic.
It depends. A well supported shot where you cannot afford to let the animal jump the fence? High shoulder. If yo are walking along and see a shot have to do it off hand, aim for behind the shoulder.
Fox.
Like to shoot behind shoulder.
Bigger target area.
Doesn't always drop on spot...can run up to 100 yards...
If shot Infront of shoulder...fox drops on spot.
Of course...if the head is the only target as it hides in grass ...
If hard pressed...and fox is heading away...at a closer range....a round up the chute is sent.
Feels sketchy...but...drops them on the spot.
17rem
204
Sometimes 270 with 90gn...shot placement not so critical then ..under 200 yards ..
High shoulder shot 308 eldm. Works everythime.
I was with you guys until it was said that to drop an animal immediately you have to disrupt the central nervous system. That is untrue. While I agree that is the best way it is not the only way. I have dropped close to a hundred Texas whitetail with a 55gr pointed soft point from my 22-250 in their tracks with a behind the shoulder shot. The bullet will usually be found in the hide of the off shoulder.
Been shooting Hornady bullets over 60 years shot many Elk with one shot high shoulder maybe back 338 mag 225 interlock done deal buddy they drop
Raised up to wait out the shot because it's better to make the shot matter than to spend you day/night tracking a poor shot placement. The margin for error in a lung/heart kill is far greater under stress. Guys who brag about spine or neck shots take the risks of calling in a blood tracking dog or standing over a pile of hair with the story of how they hit it.
I grew up in a time where emphasis was placed on getting close to your target and aim for a target inside the animal. I'm halfway through the podcast and you have not touched on the following. When you hit the central nervous system the animal shuts off and a lot of blood is 'locked' inside the muscles if you cannot get to the animal in quick time. A lung shot (behind the shoulder) allows for a lot of blood to be pumped out of the system. The result is much better table fair. I think the traditional behind the shoulder shot and it's popularity is rooted in the certainty of it and better table fair which is not generally explained nowadays... enjoy the hunting season!
I hit a big bull elk with a berger 30-06 perfect broadside, it locked its knees out and never fell, it died standing. I thought it was one of the robot elk. We called it in, went over to get it and it was standing up in the snow, blood all around it.
All of the hunting I’ve done is to harvest meat. Usually we hunt deer and moose. I’m First Nation from Canada. So my dad always told me to go for neck or brain for a quick kill. Most shots are within 100 yards. Anything further would be lung shot. We believe we owe that animal a quick death because they gave themselves up for us. People around here use to and still rely on hunting for food. I’ve heard stories people would use something like .22 right behind the ear. Personally I wouldn’t try a shot like that but like I said some people needed food.
Typical whitetail in NE Texas
unless its a head shot im ALWAYS shooting for the heart. "just put it behind the shoulder" is not optimal in the real world. animals are 3 dimensional targets that twist, turn and move. you have to aim for where the vitals are depending on their stance. not where bone structure is
Arrow a turkey through the shoulder or hips with an expandable broadhead, they won't go far.
White tail deer 6mm SST behind shoulder most drop in there tracks longest tracking job 20
yards watched it fall
Wow, a lot of old wives tales about coyotes in this episode.
E4
Whitetails = high shoulder
An episode on the lightest ,fastest pills...ie..55gn 243...75gn 25cal....
Flatest trajectory
Wind bucking
BC relevance..
Under 400, 450 yards...
For light varmint...fox hunting..not much info about for that...
Most focus is on deer etc and prs...it seems.
Neck shot any game or predators
Hogs are all head shots
Eat shot or just below the ear
High shoulder shot with a rifle = DRT