Why I Don’t Like Fizz x Ozzie (A Rant On The F*tishization Of Gay Men)
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
- Was gonna put my ending card but the quality was all laggy and so I got lazy and decided not to put anything sorry lmao
Music credits: • ENHYPEN - DRUNK-DAZED ...
Guys let me say I am so fucking sorry about my idiotic JoJo comment. Yall aren’t gonna believe me but I’m actually a huge JoJo fan I just completely forgot about N’Doul, Polnareff, and Johnny😭😭😭 that was a huge dumbass moment on my part. And as for them, I think they’re great representation I think JoJo has amazing rep.
Also quick question, could you please discuss the abuse stolas puts octavia through? I know it's not discussed a lot but the fact he's se00ually abusing her by talking very VERY grapically se8ually with Blitz on the phone right in Front of her.
And he doesnt bring her to a safe place to be in while Stella is going nuts over the divorce,even though he can afford doing so is very concerning and I hate that people portray Stella as a bad parent even though we have more examples of Stolas being a horrible parent than her
@@snqoqo I will! Im finishing an Alastor video right now but I’ll be sure to make that next
@@imgalxe thank you! your Videos are really well made and nicely thought out so please do not stress yourself when making them :]
@@snqoqo I’ve always thought this too but I’ve never seen anyone else mention it
My favorite Jojo's episode is that one where Narancia thinks that Giorno is giving sloppy toppy, that caught me off guard, lolololololololllolololololollololololololol
Fizz and Ozzie give off vibes of those 14 year old couples in the back of class that don’t know how relationships work.
@@Idkhelpidk ACCURATE
Aight that's actually crazy accurate, these two dudes back in 8th grade were EXACTLY like that ☠️☠️☠️
“I love you, my Popeyes biscuit with no drink”
@@scootermcpeanuts6699Pfft- Not Popeye’s biscuit 💀💀💀🤣🤣👏🏾👏🏾
As a gay boy, I don't mind much the dynamic of "UwU boy" and "Big bad boy", some stereotypes are stereotypes because they can being real, but to being honest, Fizz personality was totaly destroyed to make his relationship with Ozzie extra "Cheesy and cute".
Personally I just find it distasteful, especially as someone who’s experienced fetishization
I freaking hate Fizz’s personality whenever he’s with Ozzie
THIS!! We were introduced to Fizzaroli to be this antagonist of Blitz’s past. He was intimidating and it’s clear that he can stand his own against people. To tone him down to this cute soft boy almost feels like they changed a core aspect of his personality. I wouldn’t mind him being like that as a kid then after the accident, grew to how he was in Ozzie’s
I like Robofizz more than real Fizz tbh
@@toastysweaters5692Sameeeeee. It feels like an act. Like, I would sooner believe that Fizz is putting on an act bc that's how he thinks he's meant to behave but it seems to be written as genuine. Maybe it'll become relevant but I sort of doubt it. It could very easily be a kink thing, but if that was the case, I feel like there should be at least one or two scenes of Fizz being his usual self with Ozzie. I love when he's with Blitz, especially when he acts all snarky/sassy.
Glad somebody finally said it, LGBTQ people shouldn't be treated as this higher power . It should be treated like a normal relationships between two people like its not that special
I think thats why alot of people dislike the LGBT honestly. Just alot of superiority complex and self victimization, it pushes supporters and fence sitters away from them even their own people.
exacly. thats the only thing i dont like about this ship. it should not be treated as special, other then that its pretty great in my opinion
"Wattpad height difference" 😭 you're right tho
THATS SO FUCKING FUNNY
more like those heights from any hetrosexual girl and boy from any gacha skit
I HATEEEE how stereotypical their relationship, it’s weird how fizz acts like a kindergartener and how ozzie just acts like a guardian or parent except he’s being flirty??? It’s uncomfortable to watch
As someone who does ship Fizzmodeus (at least what they could have been if Viv wasnt a shitty writer), you hit the nail on the head on problems i have with canon! Fizzmodeus, notably how Fizz was written. As someone with a disability (mental not physical) who was treated as a child growing up: it hits home. That and they took his bite away that he had in season one (along with Ozzie honestly. I miss them when they were kinda being assholes together honestly like in Ozzie's).
Honestly both HB and HH have problmes if fetishizing queer men, let alone the lack of lesbian couples minus chaggie (charlie and vaggie (ugh i hate that name) and they barely have any chemistry. The woman characters are treated more as props or extensions of the male characters than their own honestly.
Bro yes thank you I want more variety then just gay it’s starting to become very repetitive in both shows that’s it’s like weird and embarrassing like really the only straight ship we have is moxxie and Millie and the lesbian ship we have is vaggie and Charlie and the teacher and women who tried to kill the imp (forgot their names sorry) but other than that Angel x husky is gay blitz and stolas is gay fizzy and big man are gay even those two sucubi from verosikas gang are gay it’s like this show just wants you know that everything is just gay like bro give us more variety then just G A Y
@@Martyismylifesupport fr 😭
I just wish the gay rep was better we aren't all twinkish hypersexual attractive skinny waisted men! We also do not have a main side character who is trans Mac only background imps : (
@@PixieMyth yes we’re are the trans fem/masc where are the gender-fluid, we’re are the aroace+asexual, where are the bi-gender, the Omni sexual,the lesbian, it’s like the only lgbtq representation we get are just gay, and pansexual
I remember back when the fandom was still theorising that Fizz might be asexual. Considering the whole, “Ozzie is in Love not Lust-what a scandal!” angle they’ve gone for, I think it would have been so cool to see them try and navigate a relationship between an ace and an allo.
“But whatever, I’m sure if Fizz turns out to be gay the relationship will still be fun and interesting…right?”
And Fizz is gay
What is an allo?
@@CelesteMarie-d7t allosexual, the opposite of asexual
@@CelesteMarie-d7t An allo is a person that has sexual attraction
Yhea bc ppl can't be asexual and have romantic preferences if they are ace they don't like sex and romance (irony) but yhea i whould love the sin of lust being in love with an ace it whould make so much "wholesome" but, nope they need to be sex machines to get straight young girls that doesn't know how a gay relationship work and i'ts always only about sex bc it's a fetish see two men having sex i guess
Wow I thought I was the only one that thought this ship seemed strange. They just act so childish and weird. It makes me so uncomfortable. And it also seems like fizz is reliant on asmodeus. If asmodeus broke up with him he’d be down to nothing. Everything said in this video is exactly how I feel about it. (very proud of you btw)
I know right! It feels like a older Man eith a teen. Yeah, they are older and in a consenting age but it feels like an old dude that chose his partner at the highschool parking lot.
Honestly, I can see it now. Since episode 6.. something always felt.. off about their relationship. Especially the line Ozzie said, "You never have to go outside again.", and it felt.. really uncomfortable? It had this possessiveness and infantilization towards Fizz which kind of rubbed me the wrong way.
Sure, both of them are supportive to one another but the power dynamic, or status just feels way too noticeable in it as without Asmodeus.. Fizzaroli quite literally would have nothing. He doesnt even know how to defend himself, he's bad at cooking.. codependency really isn't cute as many people think.
I was wondering if anyone else picked up on that in the elevator scene too. Glad to know I’m not the only one!
Seeing Fizz’s face after hearing Ozz say that about not having to go outside again, at first I thought Fizz felt bad for worrying Ozz. But maybe in addition to that, Fizz may have also been sad that Ozz sees him as a fragile, little bird who can’t take care of himself.
It’s interesting that Fizz told Blitz that he’s not broken, yet I wonder if we’ll see Fizz tell Ozz the same thing.
I thought they’ll go into an overprotective abusive relationship by that scene, which could’ve been interesting
I remember watching this episode for the first time and straight up gritting my teeth through some of the dialogue. It can’t seriously be that hard to write two adult characters talking normally without turning one into a mental grade-schooler.
Fr. “I love you so much, my blueberry muffin, I love you too, my Popeyes biscuit with no drink” ahh couple😭
Fr I physically recoiled every time Fizz opened his mouth 😭
They act like the bad boy and UwU boy from the old gacha videos
HELP FR
All we need now is for asmodeus to grow wolf ears and start teleporting
NAHHH FRRRRRR
im getting flashbacks help..
I'm gonna cry- not the old gacha videos 😭
The writers of Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel have some creepy obsessions with gay sex. It would be much better if Ozzie and Fizz had a relationship like a king and his jester instead of like this. The writing of a gay relationship in this cartoon is like Fujoshi is writing about gay sex life fantasies; these writers would never write about lesbians or trans people like this. When I tried to speak about it as a straight girl, this fandom accused me of being homophobic (which I am not)
YOU GO BRO, IM GLAD YOU CALLED THEM OUT FR. But like your so right about that istg like there's so many gay character turned into a werid fetish its crazy great example is angel dust like omg he had so MUCH potential but now he's just yk
THIS IS SUCH A WIN COMMENT HERE TAKE THIS 👑
I don't see how it does really. A king and his jester? Um...with a power imbalance like that how would that be better? I disagree, that can't be the case when Viv does actually give them depth and actual relationships. Well...with the characters we know that makes sense so far but we may see it more of that really in time.
@@Stillmad_deadend_endangel dust is more than a porn actor and you’re dense to think that just bc he’s a porn actor he’s not a good character lol
They don’t have an obsession with gay sex…Mabie it’s bc most of the characters are gay lol
I’m not gay, but as a short guy myself, a lot of this fetishization has effected me emotionally as well, especially after I had previously been sexually harassed by a boy before.
I never got uncomfortable with Fizz and Ozzie’s relationship personally (until rewatching those clips in this video.. eugh) but I was extremely dissapointed with how Fizz’s status as an enemy of Blitzø was extremley dumbed down once they revealed he can’t actually fight and stand up for himself, and solely relies on his dommy daddy Ozzie. He used to be so interesting and threatening until they turned him into Blitzø’s gay best friend.
I feel like that threatening image mostly came from the circus robot and not Fizz himself. The first time we actually saw Fizz in the show, he talked shit and then got bashed with a guitar for it.
Tbh I think it was when Ozzie was confirmed to be his bf was when it went down hill but like fr tho he was such a good character until that episode, besides I wouldn't mind if he was with Ozzie but I feel like they could had ATLEAST made him know stronger without Ozzie OR SOMETHING THREATENING but no they made him a weak baby for no reason
yeah i would have preffered if he still had some roughness in him honesly. as much as i like the fact that fizz is much more calm than blitz and how they were always that way, it wouldve been so interesting if had more of a rougher exteriory to show how the entertainment industry affects you.
would be such a cool parrallel too, fizz is what blitzo couldve been if he had succeded in life, and yet they’re both assholes. whether or not you succeed in life or not does that really do anything with you as a person.
@@ActualbowlofsoupWhat specifically mean by "succeeded in life"? In job or?
@@bigjok3929 yeah, blitz was never liked by the audience in the circus but they loved fizz and fizz managed to become famous due to become mainsteam
As someone writing a book with a gay couple, when I’m writing, I don’t think “this is a gay couple” I just think “this is a couple” and I write them like any normal couple 🤷🏻♀️. It’s easy to not fetishize it.
But apparently people really want to for some reason. Honestly? I mainly feel bad for their voice actors for having to do those lines. 💀.
And people love making gay couples toxic too. That’s partly why my couple is healthy (it’s mostly because I want them to be, but that contributes) so I can give the LGBTQ a little break from it constantly being portrayed as toxic 💀.
Same!!! I think it's important to show LGBTQ toxic couples tho, they just need to be displayed as toxic. The whole toxic Yuri/yoai trope being glorified is super annoying 😭
i’m hearing you out, but as a lesbian i need my toxic yuri
@@throwaway-cr5hq I just don’t really understand like… why you’d like a toxic couple…? I know people have different tastes, but I mean.. especially when it’s used so often with gay couples that now a lot of people just think all gay couples are toxic.
@@Raven_102 Used often how? In mainstream media or just in those weird fandom pockets of tumblr/twitter? Bc that's where I often encounter them.
@@Raven_102From places i read some yuri manga the people there love the drama (only drama) i think i don't really like the trope
I just feel so disgusted that Fizz, one of the few disabled characters in the show, has so much agency taken from him and is reduced to a helpless maiden, yes it's brave that he quits his work towards mammon but otherwise the writers take away his ability to influence his fate/life :/
I honestly didn't notice this before but you've made some really good points in this video. I don't really mind Fizzarolli acting childish because that's very much part of his personality. But someone childish doesn't have to be automatically dependent. I'd say about myself that I'm very childish person but I can take care of myself. As Fizz being childish doesn't bother me, him being so dependent on Asmodeus does feel wrong.
I still see this ship in good light because unlike CERTAIN OTHER PAIR they can communicate and seemed to very much respect each other. But it doesn't change the fact that Fizzarolli seeming so dependent is problematic. Especially adding into account that he's disabled. The more I'm starting to see, the more writing of "Helluva Boss" and "Hazbin Hotel" bugs me.
Na that’s a good point. I forgot to mention this, but I’m also quite childish and immature. Not this extent though lmao. When I say childish i mean I laugh at dick jokes my friends make.
@@imgalxe Your video is very s3xist and abl3ist. (You make a joke about women not wanting to be s3xualised and portray them as the angry cry Wojak. God imagine if a female S@ survivor saw that-Oh wait. Yes, that is offensive, women shouldn't objectify gay men for being gay but nsfw of gay people isn't bad and the dynamic between Fizzaroli and Ozzie isn't terrible. It kinda gave me the ICK the way you talked about women throughout your video. The reason WHY most women see straght men as BAD IS BECAUSE MOST WOMEN ARE TREATED LIKE NO MORE THAN PIECES OF MEAT BY MOST STRAIGHT MEN! Not that you'd understand. Also you can't speak for the d!s@bled rep if you're not d1sabl3d. I can. It's okay but the infantilisation of Fizzaroli is weird, but he has been through a traumatic event so he could just need aftercare. Since I think aftercare is needed after traumatic events. I kinda wish we could see Fizzaroli fight back more like Robo Fizzaroli. Fujoshis can be creepy but I honestly don't care if men or women draw gay people doing the nasty as long as they don't dehumanise and objectify or show hate to them in art for being gay and don't think gay people are like that irl. And yes, a lot of stereotypes of gay men in most medias are messed up but all genders did that, not just women. It is weird to make Fizzarolli helpless though but Fizzarolli is struggling in both episodes and was SCARED of Mammon, probably why he didn'r fight back at first but I hope the dynamic doesn't turn into what you described. It sounds like to me you might be insecure of your sexuality and throw fujoshi women and women under the bus for.....Existing, I guess?
FINALLY I hate this ship so much. The dialogue just disgusts me with how utterly cringe it is😭 it’s so creepy and stereotypical
As a gay person in a relationship myself, and someone who has been bullied severely (from racism & ableism), the "infantilizing is just as bad as bullying" is such a terrible comparison imo. My bf and I are pushing 30, I'm much shorter than him, and we talk to each other in this "stupid baby talk" way all the time. But it's not like we do it as a fetish, it's just funny to us. I understand if YOU PERSONALLY don't want to be treated that way, but not EVERY gay couple has to "act strictly as adults should". I've always hated being told how to act, what to do, etc., I was bullied for being "weird / childish" (autistic) and not following everything everyone does. It's exhausting and I think a bit ableist.
Look, I hate Vivz, so I'm not trying to defend her work or anything. Plus I get what you're saying at the same time, being fetishized by strangers feels weird. It doesn't help that the internet is so open, so you see this kind of thing a lot. But I'm sorry, comparing infantilizing to bullying is just ignorant. One is just weird and gross, the other is directly harming someone.
that comment was wild to me. like i don't like it when people talk down to me but its not on the levels of most bullying
I’m glad you made this video as the Fujoshi approach to the relationships in Viv’s work doesn’t get called out nearly enough as it should! All the gay relationships come across as cringe “yaoi” fanfiction from the early 2000s and it’s shocking that anyone would consider this show good representation, especially when it rigidly perpetuates the archaic heteronormative masculine top/feminine bottom stereotype of gay relationships.
Honestly, this stereotype is so pervasive in this show that even the “straight” couples like Moxxie and Millie are victims of it. Similar to Ozzy and Fizz, they’re a shallow caricature of a “healthy” relationship, but Moxxie in particular suffers from the same Fujoshi-styled hyper sexualised feminisation in how he’s depicted as the “submissive bottom” in his relationship and the show has so many jokes unironically emasculating him over his sexual preferences.
Despite what Viv seems to think, a lot of the show derisively mocks what it’s supposedly trying to be “positive rep” of.
Also, as a disabled person I can say you’re spot on with the criticism for the disabled rep too, it’s always gross when disabled characters get infantilised and it’s treated as “cute” to see a disabled person to be helplessly, physically reliant on a romantic partner. Similar to how gay relationships are used by this show to indulge a dom/sub fetish, disability is also being used solely in service to this fetish.
Fizz’s lack of autonomy paired with Ozzy’s babying of Fizz is NOT how you depict a healthy relationship between an abled bodied and disabled person. A disabled person is the only one who defines the limits of their own abilities and decides whether they do or don’t require assistance. A good partner respects and supports this, they don’t misappropriate the “authority” of a parent and turn themselves into an additional limitation that arbitrarily inhibits their disabled partner’s independence. No amount of “good intentions” changes how unacceptable that behaviour is, both romantic partners are autonomous adults, not a parent and a child.
This show is constantly dictating to the audience what relationships are meant to be healthy and it’s a worry that so many fans uncritically accept this when the show itself depicts completely unhealthy qualities within these relationships. One that will never not bug me is the insistence Stolas is a good father, he’s shown again and again to be an unforgivably bad father yet the show keeps trying to gaslight us into accepting the contrary.
Honestly, this show and its fandom is a fascinating (yet terrifying) example of how easily people can be influenced into believing what they’re told to believe irrespective of the evidence they can see that demonstratively contradicts what they’re being told.
Spot on
Nah it really doesn't have to get called out here as it isn't a "Fujoshi approach". They don't all come across as cringe “yaoi” fanfiction from the early 2000s fanfiction like how do they? They aren't just sex and they have actual depth to them, like what's wrong with considering this good representation? I don't see the issue there really. It doesn't do that...like at all, like Fizz really isn't feminine he is more cute and aorable at times but not more feminine really.
That stereotype isn't in the show though and it really doesn't affect couples like Moxxie and Millie at all. No neither of those couples are a shallow caricature of a “healthy” relationship, like both have their ups and downs and don't always agree with each other they are clearly real actual relationships, no Moxxie doesn't suffer from it really either and it's not all feminized either and nothing wrong with it being sexualised really and he likely doesn't always bottom, it makes jokes about it but it doesn't unironically emasculate him like it doesn't genuinely mock him over that really.
It really doesn't mock it at all, it makes light hearted jokes not genuinely mocking and betlittling him bottoming.
I disagree I don't see the issue there tbh. Ok but while Fizz is "cute" he really isn't infantilised or is portrayed as helpless or physically reliant on a romantic partner. Neither of those things are really true, like being the top doesn't mean you dom like who knows FIzz and Stolas may dom at times really and it really isn't a fetish people can genuinely be like that, and I REALLY don't see how disability is used for fetish crap either.
Except FIzz doesn'y lack automony and really isn't babied either. Well yeah good thing Ozzie's behavior wasn't like that then. Like their relationship was fine really.
But it doesn't depict unhealthy qualities in a good light it usually calls them out at least. What??? The show repeatedly calls Stolas out for that though, like yeah he is clearly not a great dad which is the point, ti doesn't gaslight anyone into accepitng the contrary....hell it feels like I'm being gaslit when people say the show acts like Stolas is a good dad when it clearly doesn't act like that at all, but really both cases aren't using the word "gaslight" correctly really.
Not really not when what their told to believe doesn't contradict the evidence they can clearly see.
I'm very curious on these viewpoints now
This comment explained my whole problem I have with this adult animations
@@Jdudec367 Moxxie is 100% getting feminized, he always plays the role of a princess who needs Millie to come rescue him because apparently he can't protect himself. All the times he crossdresses and the way Millie always need to come save him from stuff, wether it be the wedding his father was forcing him through or the other times he's taken hostage. I don't see anything wrong with the fact that the woman does the rescuing but if this is what defines their relationship as a running occourance it's not a good look.
You may not see it but a lot of people unfortunately fetishizes disabilities and it's horrible when it does happen, they act like the person with a disabiliy can't take care of themselves and the partner making all the decisions on wether or not they can handle something and forgets to treat the disabled person as an actual person instead of a child or an object who doesn't have any say in the matter. The fact that Fizz needs to be babied and protected 24/7 to not be kidnapped because of his disability when he is shown as extremely agile before all of that is a bad look.
I wish blitzo and fizzaroli were a couple instead of them being in relationships with stolas and ozzie. It could’ve worked out better for the story in my opinion.
Edit: thank u so much for the likes :3
Hey, that would actually be interesting. If we made Asmodeus be at least on Stolas' level of treating his partner and make Fizz be much less comfortable with this... Both Blitzo and Fizzarolli would be fed up with Ozzie and Stolas, and they would make up like they did in the show and get closer to each other... until they would finally decide that screw Asmodeus and Stolas and end up together! That would be so interesting to see! And I'm sure they'd make much more healthy couple. Especially that being childhood friends, Blitzo and Fizz very much have a lot of points of connection.
Yeah!!
BLITZFIZZ IS SO INTERESTING AND LIKE SO MUCH BETTER IDK WHY I CANT FIND ANY ART FOR IT
Fr tho. I really wish blitz and fizz got together :((
That would be uhhh…..smth…….but I prefer how it is rn
It's honestly sad to see the wasted potential of Helluva Boss. It's indie so its not bound to a big network. Viv and her team can write this however they want. There choosing to add these lines and scenes. This isn't network and censorship getting in the way and fucking with the creator's vision. The creator's visions is just bad. And I doubt Viv is thinking more then surface level "Oh this would be cute!" Or "Oh this would be funny!" No. No it's not Viv your spreading a harmful message and making the LGBT community look bad. A community your part of for Christ sake. Stop and think about what your doing
Yall wait I’m sorry I was kidding about the “tell me how proud you are of me in the comments” part lmao😭😭 I appreciate the support tho
Are you Trans?
I feel like how ppl could write these characters could be similar to Mondo Owada and Kiyotaka Ishimaru from Danganronpa. They started out as very opposing forces, Mondo being the stereotypical bad boy and Taka being the proper role model, but then grew to be best friends by challenging each other mano a mano, you know just doing guy stuff. Then the relationship is basically a bromance from that point onward, maybe even a romance if Mondo didn't die. But god, you knew Taka just lost his Only friend that day the way he cried.
Hey, no need to be humble, everyone can use some encouragement! I hope you can keep it up, it's good for your physical and mental health!
I for my part am a lazy potato, so you're already doing better than me just by doing anything sportsy ... xD
Don't overdo it tho, or you're gonna hurt yourself. You don't want to strain your own body with micro tearings in your muscles, or injure some ligaments by picking too much weight.
And don't get discouraged if you don't see much progress in the first few months, that's normal. If you have a normal body fat ratio, your muscles are anyway never gonna stick out like it does with movie actors or bodybuilders, that's anabolica plus dehydration - and obviously unhealthy.
A close friend of mine does a lot of kickboxing and weightlifting, and it took him years to reach the physique and strength he has now. But it paid off in the end, so don't give up!
@@zealousamourousoh good point! I love those two!
@@imgalxe Me two, they're actually my two favorite characters in Danganronpa one, Chihiro being third.
I would argue...that Viz is just bad at writing, and only good at coming up with concepts without fleshing them out. Hence why all her characters are shallow af.
This is exactly what I’ve been screaming since Ozzie’s! You hit the nail on the head, well done!
Since Ozzie's?? In Ozzie's they were badass, what do you mean
I'm so glad you made this! I feel like nobody really talks about how uncomfortable their relationship is.
Yeah I guess I never really noticed before. The "big daddy" thing was pretty weird but I guess I never really thought of fizz as childish
vivziepop brainwashed them into loving it 😭
@@edatheowllady9518 ong whatever happened to calling your lover baby honey or some shit like that
@@3nq838 nah i just wish i was in fiz place but not with asmo. im pretty gay so id want a relationship like this
@@redmaster3542Your choice but thats not really the point of the Vid
BRO YOU'RE SO REAL FOR THIS FINALLY SOMEONE WHO SPEAKS OUT ABOUT THEM THAT ISN'T "OMFG THEY'RE SO CUTE AND HEALTHY"
i hate so much how they mixed in being childish and sexualization like it's so unconscious
On their own it's fine but together it's... Ew
tbh I never really cared about ozzie x fizz ship but there is a small part of me see it as off?? but now your vid pretty much sums it. especially that line ozzie forbids fizz to go outside alone after the kidnapping which is literal infantalization but it later goes nowhere after that.
i also think their relationship feels random cus if you look prior in loo loo land, it implied fizz only works with Mammon, makes sense yknow. but then it actually shows fizz works with Asmodeus?? oh wait sorry he works with both of them! I have no big hate for this but just wanna point that out
Before I get into my tiny rant I wanna say congrats on the weight lifting! I know it’s hard i do it myself. But I how see this ship personally is that viv is trying to show that “Oh!- Fizz acts like a child because of his past and with mammon so he is only allowed to act like this around Ozz! I know so kawaii!” It honestly just kinda grosses me out and makes me think they’re trying to copy the age regression disorder which is fucked up in my case, AND adding onto that fizz is a sort of disabled? It makes it sound so much like a fetish then an actual heathy relationship which viv clearly doesn’t know about since in both HB and HH I haven’t seen one actually good relationship so far and it pisses me off-. Anyway that’s my tiny rant and I’ll go back in my cave and re-think my life choices like I do every night.
I disagree, honestly the sweet baby talk and “treating partners as a child” is something I see in alot of real life relationships and that’s just something couples do. I mean me and my boyfriend when we are being all lovey dovey talk to each other like cute dogs if thag makes sense, my parents do the same thing too, that’s just how alot of relationships are, it’s just fizz and ozzy do that and just so happen to both be male. I think it’s ehh to call it fetishy, corny for sure but I don’t know about that
This plays into with Stolas, since people see as the “uwu small gay boy” they forgot that he’s a grown man in his 30’s with a daughter, making him be treated differently than blitz who is pan.
Something something the reason gay characters are portrayed like this often is copy pasting shit awful sexist tropes in straight pairing unto gay ones, like the infatalization of the smaller feminine weaker one is a common trope in heterosexual pairings that’s why it’s also here
Omg who said thatttt
I’m so proud of you for lifting weights you got this and I believe in you my dude you got this!
Lmao I was just joking about the asking yall to say you’re proud of me but thank you I appreciate it
@@imgalxeNo problem I’m getting into weight lifting as well and I’m just excited
@@imgalxethou is on the path to…B U F F…
with the ending of oops, i thought they were gonna write ozzie and fizz's relationship as wholesome on the outside, but actually unhealthy the more you look at it. I thought they were gonna make ozzy controlling to a harmful degree (him trying to keep fizz inside all the time) and have fizz talk to blitzo about being abused by someone that is a higher class than himself. unfortunately my expectations were too high for the helluva boss writing staff
this abusive relationship angle couldve further cemented the fact that imps are secondary citizens (something that is sparsely shown throughout the show), especially if ozzy treated fizz more like a pet/plaything while wanting to keep their relationship status secret, much like stolas does to blitzo, which would make blitzo and fizz's dynamic more interesting, especially with strikers whole "never bow down to blue blood" thing
@@yendo1774 man, this all sounds like excellent fanfic material and I’m dying to read it. I’ll take this plot over canon any time.
Hard disagree.
Fizz is not portrayed as a "childish baby who can't do anything," he is an entertainer who has a cozy escape in his relationship. He can't fight because unlike most of the cast, he has never trained for combat, and this is brought up in the show. He is however, perfectly capable of using his talents to get out of situations as seen in the capture episode with his distraction tactic.
Some couples are lovey dovey and cutesy with each other and it's not infantilization. It's just another way of dating.
As far as power dynamics, fizz does realize and contemplate this many times. In a world where imps are often discriminated against, fizz realizes how his relationship looks to the media and ozzy recognizes how much more fragile his partner is. Imps are seen as lower class beings and both parties of this relationship know it's not right, unlike blitz and stolas. Ozzy continuously also shows that he trusts fizz's intuition over his own concerns, but they also aren't afraid to voice those concerns to each other. This is healthy, as is fizz questioning this relationship.
This is something the show addresses and will likely bring up in the future.
Also, the "who tops?" question is ambiguous and never answered. The joke is that it can be taken either way, and is immediately shrugged off as distasteful by the characters and how they look at blitz. The way you interpreted their stares at each other shows your own biases as a viewer about how bottoms and tops act. (Not to mention switches are a thing)
There's also the trope of the "sanitized gay," which I'm glad is being avoided here, where writers write sexuality out of gay relationships and basically write them like straight people, ignoring lgbt culture and its influence. Its ok to have variety, and not every gay character has to be this ultimate paradigm, because the goal is to make lgbt characters well integrated and to make people feel represented. Not everyone will feel represented by every character, but some will see themselves in ozzy and fizz and thats ok.
However I do think this universe needs to equal out how they treat gay relationships. Lesbian relationships are unfortunately quite sanitized and not talked about much, even in hazbin where it should be a main focus.
Anyway as a gay, that's my takeaway. The show aint perfect but it should be given credit where its due.
based
^^
This. This right here. As a nonbinary transmasc, I sometimes fantasize about having a literal gay bear taking good care of me, and am I infantilizing myself because of one of my ideal partners being a big guy while I'm the short one? No.
Like, Fizzarolli and Asmodeus as a couple basically make me feel seen in my opinion.
i swear you can't name a single helluva boss or hazbin hotel episode that does not have at least one sex joke. it's worse in helluva boss because it usually ruins serious scenes ( like when crimson and Moxxie were talking and having a serious moment only to put in a dragged out sex joke))
i respectfully disagree.
the affection exchange theory, which was proposed by the communication researcher Kory Floyd, says that specific vocal behaviors signal affection. these include the use of a high pitch, exaggerated intonation and a soft voice-traits that just so happen to overlap with the way most people talk to kids; this is why so many couples engage in what is called “baby talk.”
the writers aren’t fetishizing a gay relationship, you are just overanalyzing and seeing issues where there are none simply because the type of romantic relationship ozzie and fizz has is personally foreign to you. ozzie isn’t looking down on fizz like stolas looks down on blitzo nor is fizz acting like a child, they are just a normal, healthy couple engaging in behavior that a lot of other irl couples engage in as well.
I AGREE👍👍👍
yeah i agree, theyre not exactly toxic theyre just cringe
Well, given Vivs track record with how she writes and portrays queer characters, specifically gay men, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was her team’s intention to write them as walking stereotypes with severe power imbalances (wouldn't be the first time lol). Then again, I’ve never been a fan of either of her shows nor her characters.
Ah yes a normal couple: A powerful business owner and politcal figure along with the lower middle class entertainer he's having an affair with. Sounds totally healthy and normal.
As a gay man I think it’s pretty adorable how open they are with each other, and I don’t think people having a different love language than you necessarily constitutes being “weird” or “stereotypical”, I’d fuckin kill for someone to treat me like how Ozzie treats Fizz. Although what does make me uncomfortable is that Vivzie definitely thinks that this is what EVERY gay relationship is like, considering that Fizz x Ozz is literally just Stolitz but with less stupid ahh trauma
I was in the middle of a Ray William Johnson video when I saw this notification, instantly clicked lol
Wait sorry to interrupt lmfao
No way, mr. Doin yer mom himself.
question but what's the flag on the right of ur pfp?
@@bem.te.vi.carioca It’s the Abrosexual flag, it’s when your sexuality changes preferences over time
@@Pokimations good to know! so its basically being genderfluid but except with gender its the sexual preference LOL
Why does god give his strongest soldiers (me) his toughest battles
(My mom bought M&M’s and I ate some even though I’ve been lifting weights so I can look like an anime character so im supposed to be eating healthy)
Hey, you gotta have the occasional treat! After all, you’re working so hard, and a little thing like that really won’t make a huge difference in the long run
Taestay m&m’s gives you magical powers 😝🤟
I understand it feels like a stereotype and it can be offending but relationships like thisdo exist with both straight and queer couples. As long as both characters are ok with it, even if its weird, it's totally ok. I still comprehend your discomfort tho.
very minor, but fujoshi is a misogynistic term. also sexualizing women is a WAY bigger problem than sexualizing individual men (like how people thirst over jjk men) in real life. how women and men are treated irl is very different, so saying women sexualizing jjk dudes (not even yaoi, by themselves) is just as bad as sexualizing anime women is a false comparison
What made the Stoliz baby talk bad was how when Blitz expressed how he was unconfortable with how Stolas talked to him he was ignored, and Blitz couldn't just get out of this relationship were he had no voice, because then he'd lose his job. But Fizz has given consent and set boundaries, so even if the baby talk makes me cringe I can't hate it. I don't blame you for hating it because it's something you wouldn't ever want in a relationship and are tired of stereotypes, but I think they're just acting just like a married couple, (the point is that he's the leader of lust but he's in a typical cheesy lovy-dovy relationship) with how they have pet names and are overly affectionate. They are shown to be in a very normal relationship. I don't think they are being infantalised , or that they have no personality. Fizz is shown to be silly, caring, and rude, while Ozzie has been shown to be a worry wart, sassy, and brave. Also Fizz roasted Blitz and it's only thanks to him that Blitz managed to escape after being captured. I think he was shown to be very competant.
This is the kind of comment I’ve been looking for, I completely understand that some people may be slightly uncomfortable with their relationship but to add you your points:
In the special fizz breaks out of his abusive job with mammon thanks to the help of both Blitz and Ozzie. Neither force him to quit and, justifiably, when fizz still goes to the contest Ozzie asks for Blitz, someone they can trust, to act as a body guard. Which makes complete sense and proves necessary.
Their song is honestly adorable to be and it has a lot of Ozzie lifting Fizz up and giving him confidence in his looks, talent and worth. Which leads into Fizz’s song where he sticks the finger to Mammon and says what he thinks before quitting. That whole time, Ozzie stays cheering from the background until Mammon gets pissy and he has to step in so Fizz doesn’t get beaten into tomorrow.
This episode shows their dynamic in probably the best way. They’re both there for each other and yea they’re corny as hell but that’s just how they do romance.
(I had to get this rant out 😅)
This is exactly what I was thinking! Im not sure why it's suddenly seen as infantilization when its 2 guys in a relationship. Would there be no problem if one of them was a girl? Its more of a relationship dynamic than a stereotype..it seems like more of a personal problem of the creator rather than actual infantilization
Okay this video went down a whole path I wasn’t prepared for. 😭
I do think your initial thoughts on Fizz x Ozzie are good! I personally didn’t see them as fujobait BUT I will say that upon listening to your opinion I can see where than can be! Or are!
So that broadened my outlook on them as a couple!
Where things get weird is your tirade about wholesomeness, pedestals, and stereotypes and stuff.
You kind of come across like one of those gay people that is REALLY big on respectability politics and you also seem like you have a very centrist-y point of view lmao idk.
Like while I think the show does have a fetish problem and can fall into played out tropes (super uwu baby sub x domme daddy , hypersexuality, questionable power imbalance etc.) I do think your aversion to it being reflective of real gay experiences is a bit much.
There’s many lgbt people, gay men included, that watch this show and they do like Fizz and Ozzie authentically. 🤷🏾♀️ Some gay men even have cringe ass banter like them and even fall into the same roles.
Even at the part when you said “lgbt people infantilize themselves!” Felt weird because… what? You mean gay men being cringe and stuff? So what? Why is that brought up like a real issue? Aren’t all couples cringe?
Also I feel like “fighting stereotypes” conversations feels unproductive at times. I like the idea of showing off how rounded and complex we are as a community and how we’re not all the same sure but then it kind of turns into erasure of “embarrassing gays” or lgbt people we don’t think are “good optics”. Which I think is a shame. Stereotypes aren’t fully bad, the problem is more so with boiling people down to JUST stereotypes.
I’m a bi black woman, there’s some stereotypes I incidentally fall into whether I like it or not. Doesn’t make me any less of a person, or that people like me don’t deserve their stories told!
I’m kind of tired (writing this while on my cycle/period) so what I’m saying is probably all over the place but i just wanted to share my thoughts on why some of what you said rubbed me the wrong way a bit.
this exactly ^^^^
For me personally, I don't think it's fujobait AT ALL. I can understand *how* people think that - but like?? Couples like this exist?
Just because their a stereotype within a media doesn't instantly make it any less real. I have a whole plethora of issues with HB/HH but Ozzie and Fizz are the less of the problems I have. In fact they are one of the most enjoyable things.
I'm queer, and trans and I've been infantilized so much. Espicially because I act childish (I'm 19-22) But I can't lie when I say the opposite of me is my type of man. Tall, muscular, level headed - responsible. Everything I'm not.
There is nothing wrong with being pro respectability politics. Some people are not individualists. Some of us are much more collectivist, and we believe in integrating, assimilating with the collective. It's ok if many lgbt people are assimilationists and not liberationists. And respectability is obviously a big part of this.
@@gaytor935"Couples like this exist" the problem isnt that Vivzie wrote a couple like this. ALL mlm couples written by Viz are like this. All of them.
Hey I honestly agree with you. I felt like some things said in this video felt off. While I do agree with some things it does feel like some of what was said was a bit wrong. Even in her HuskerDust video about Angel Dust bothered me because thru made it seem like Angel Dust was SAing people all over the place which isn't true. Harassment of two men in the show yest but full SA that's a little wild to me. Nothing against the person who made the video just was bothered by what was said
@@vilunar1598 tbh sexually harrassing is really bad on its own anyways, straight men sexually harrassing random women is gross and this should be consideres gross too
You know, for someone that brings up infantilization, you sure seem to be doing a lot of that when describing Fizz. You keep describing Fizz as this helpless guy who can't do anything for himself when that's simply not the case at all. Just because he doesn't know how to fight doesn't automatically make him vulnerable. He has strengths in other areas that are being overlooked. He was able to distract Crim and his gang when Blitzo was working on a way to get them out of their situation. Fizz has worked hard to get to where he's at. We know that he won the clown contest five years after he lost his limbs and he's very proud of his work. And Ozzie does respect him. Ozzie isn't infantilizing him. He respects Fizz's autonomy. That's why he never stopped Fizz from going to Greed and why he never forced Fizz to quit working for Mammon. If you don't like how Fizz and Ozzie talk to each other, that's well within your right. But no, Ozzie isn't being infantilizing towards Fizz. Also, why exactly is their height difference a problem? There's nothing wrong with height difference especially when we are talking about two non-humans. I'm not going to convince you to like them if you don't, but I think a lot of this infantilization is coming moreso from you than it is from the show itself.
Fizzozzie had so much potential to be healthy version of stolitz. But -unfortunately Viv & co can’t write characters and couples in their shows right.
I don’t think you know what fetishization means…
I love how u speak ur opinions in such a clear way, U MADE ME HATE STOLAS WITH UR REASONING ❤
Instantly subbed after 1 video, keep up the great work dude!
Aww tysm that means a lot
@@imgalxe you’re welcome!
Personally I think your really wrong. You arnt really bringing anything specific about their behavior out into the spotlight and breaking down why they lead you to feel like its some horrible portrayal of a gay relationship. I have a very similar relationship dynamic to Ozzie and fizz. And while watching them all I could do was relate. (I'm a gay trans man and my partner is nonbinary) and while watching your video it kinda just seems like you just don't want stereotypes. Especially after making the "boyfriends" comment. (While I know the creator has some drama the comic series itself isn't bad if you go in *not caring* about stereotypes.) I think people forgot that these characters are supposed to be silly and cringey and semi-stereotypical. I can even see directly in the show that fizzy is NEVER treated as "helpless" everyone respects fizz and his disability. ESPECIALLY Ozzie. Always trying to accommodate and support him through it. Like what specifically about their relationship is a bad portrayal other than one "soft boy" and the other is "bad boy" (which btw I wouldn't even call fizz soft cause he goes out of his way to defend himself and be very snappy with his words with people he doesn't like.) So I think this is a bad take personally.
For me it's just different dynamic, it's not bad, it's just different, i get people do not like it. But for me that's how i (AuDHD) act with my boyfriend, ofc in a ship they act more silly and more free ill say. But againt, i do not see it as smth bad, i just see it as another relationship dynamic that has it's place to be
my opinion on this video is pretty neutral,
all the points you have made are struggles people from the Lesbian/gay part of the community do deal with how they are viewed.
and I agree on everything, except for the conversation being centered on Fizz and Ozzie's relationship.
In my opinion, their relationship is strangely written, but I think its kinda weird to view their relationship within the context of infantilization and fetishization, when I believe this is merely playful banter, obviously written as cringe, because they are speaking in private, played off in an ironic way to contrast Moxxie's and Millie's relationship when they made fun of their love plucks. I don't believe their portrayal is the problem, since their relationship has too little of screentime to create claims as wild as these. Its good that you're judging by what is displayed when they are together, but your points arent as strong, since you're poorly pinpointing your statements with your own biases and beliefs, instead of proper compare and contrast.
I believe that almost all the homosexual relationships in Helluva boss, is not fetishized, but instead, sexualized (if theres a difference). Now this is a strange claim, coming from the fact Helluva boss is made for sexual jokes and scenes, but when I see the writing in genuine characters, (specifically homosexual characters) in relationships, its always portrayed as sexually explicit, or mostly sexual.
I find it strange that Millie and Moxxie is practically the only couple that isnt sexualized to that much of a degree for being straight, compared to the gay relationships. And if that is categorized as fetishization, that's what *you* can decide on. A great example of the HUGE difference between the portrayal of straight and gay couples in Helluva Boss, Is when Moxxie was dating Chaz. THERE IS A FLASHBACK SCENE, WHERE MOXXIE AND CHAZ WERE HINTING ABOUT JERKING IT WITH A SHOTGUN, and another scene where Moxxie was being drawn by Chaz in a SEXUAL position while they were both dating.
Compare that to all the cute scenes with Moxxie and Millie, there is no difference in writing even with the same ol' Mox, the only difference being, that hes with the same sex. You may argue that Moxxie and Chaz's relationship was toxic so theres a difference. But, since those flashbacks were hinting the nature of their relationship, its easier to assume that it was as sexual as every other gay relationship in Helluva boss, to a certain degree. Though because it was a flashback, It is only *my* assumption. Still, im using it to prove my point.
Though Moxxie and Millie had their sexual moments, it wasn't their main focus within their relationship.
Idk, just something to think on, I dont believe Fizz and Ozzie is the only one, and is clearly not the healthiest relationship lol
You do have a point. I mean if it was only case with Chaz and Moxxie you could have said their relationship was about lust more than love which is why betrayal happened and why he's an ex. But considering Blitz relationship with Stolas and close enough to it relationship with those two in video it does seem like a pattern. Honestly they should just add more sapphic relationship that act similar to make it seem less like they fetishize mlm men. Or just make gay relationship where one man is asexual.
“Wattpad height difference” 💀 well your not wrong
This is VERYYYY off topic, but I wish Helluva boss was a slice of life instead of a romance drama. I know it kind of started as a slice of life with occasional story elements, but now it's just..... It's, well, the stolitz show now. It has nothing else going for it, it's actually sad. I don't mind story driven shows at all, I love them when they're done well, but I WISH Viv kept the promise of making Helluva less story focused. Hazbin was always supposed to be the big sister story, so why couldn't Helluva boss expand on the world and classes while Hazbin did it's own thing?
To get back on the topic, I also just think Fizz and Asmodeus are unnecessary as characters. Asmodeus literally only EXISTS to be Fizz's "hot dom daddy saviour". If Helluva was slice of life, they could've made them like... Villians of the week or something... Gradually build up to Blitz confronting them, and fixing his relationship with Fizz in the end. That could be a fun season imo!
The canon relationships in this show between Blitzo and stolas, Fizzaroli and Asmodeus are just so fucking bad
Blitz with stolas (If you can even call it that) is some low class imp being belittled and sexual harassed by the upper class owl who just only cares about blitz and not his daughter
Fizzaroli with Asmodeus: Is just stereotypical dominate top boyfriend x Submissive bottom, asmodeus is the sin of lust he could’ve just been a boss and Fizzaroli could’ve just been his assistant.
And what both stolas and asmodeus have in common is that they treat the two imps in a sexualizing manner by just coddling them and thinking their just little imps that need them (and fizz is the one going along with it).
I swear this is why i wish the show had a relationship between just Blitzo and Fizzaroli, especially when they hinted that blitzo was about to confess to him.
@@khazakibunny THIS OMFG SAME GERE I WANTED THEM TO BE TOGETHER
I'm sorry but to just say that their relationship is fetishizing is just stupid. They're literally one of the most healthiest couples in the show and all you can say is "it's a fetish"? It's fetishizing for them to flirt, act cutesy, and complain about the height difference. And Fizz isn't "helpless", he can defend himself if he needs to, he's just not an experienced fighter like Blitz. And so what if he acts childish? We all act like that from time to time, it's not the end of the world. And being "gay" isn't their personalities, Fizz can be confident, be a boss, funny, and kind, but also has insecurities. Ozzie is also confident but he's also protective and headstrong. Good grief it just seems this vid was only made for the sake of complaining.
EXACTLY LIKE WOULD YOU RATHER HAVE A TOXIC SHIP
If Stolas did dirty phonecall to a lady instead of blitz then people find it disgusting, if Sir Pentious was a lady and being SA in club then people would start a huge drama because of it, why you people have this mindset like a fujoshi / yaoi stans ? Why can't you see the issue how creators of this shows always portrayed homo guys ???
@@Coughs_up_nails I would rather have regular friendship or broship than a couple with one is extremely dependent to the other
The owl house will remain the best representation of the queer community
Fr
And it’s a Disney show
I thought the helplessness of Fizz was fine tbh. I just figured that it was because he was always being taken care of by either Mammon and/or Ozzie. He could just do what he was told and they'd take care of the rest while he lived it up in the lap of luxury... I mean hell, didnt either Striker or Blitzø call Fizz Ozzies lapdog or something??
Ok point being, Fizz never had to learn how to mature and survive and be fully independent because he always had someone taking care of him
EDIT: gotta be real with ya chief, i dont see any issues in their relationship. Ozzie just has a confident dom personality that meshes with Fizz's sheltered personality
Bro, I think they just hate healthy relationships frfr
More Power to You™
i remember viv liking a tweet or saying something in a tweet abt how she wanted it to be ambiguous on who the dom and sub is in the relationship (if im remembering right) & they were careful with making it seem open for interpretation and. im like facepalming so hard because. im sorry? this is written with as much subtly as a kpop "yaoi" comic 😭 we can tell who tops!
edit: im legit thinking the reason women r obviously an afterthought in hazbin or helluva is bc they cant be yaoified which is all that viv cares abt lol
and yes i know dom/sub and top/bottom r different things... doubt viv does though
Vivziepop is a fujoshi 😭
I saw alot of signs and her behaviours like this but never dares to speak about it
Disabled people aren't damsels in distress and can help themselves. Wow, ty for saying that.
As a person who is disabled (Autisim and AD-HD) that really made me feel better. Thank you ❤
I'm right there with you.
I can understand why you would find their relationships uncomfortable because its so stereotypical and that makes sense, but i think that its like that for entertainment since ig ppl find that funny, thank you for bringing this up, i would have never thought to think twice of their relationship
i honestly dont see the problem in this. this is the kind of relationship id like honestly, its wholesome but i get it that dynamic is not for everyone. its not fetishization, some gay men are like that. but stop calling it that just because you dont like a dynamic bewtwin 2 men dynamics
WATCH THE VIDEO😭 LISTEN TO IT 😭 AND REEVALUATE YOUR COMMENT😭
@@aznya yeah i did watch it, readed many coments. I watched it all and my point still stand, even if i lisened to it all. I do get it that this ship is not for everyone or might make some uncomphy. But its still not fetishization
8:45 dude thank you so much for saying this!! I’m trans and gay, but I always found it so weird that so many ppl talk crap about straight white dudes, or straight ppl in general yet claim to be against things like discrimination 💀
As a closeted person, Facts. Like people's hypocrisy has bounds, do they? Smh. They don't like people discriminating them but they over here discriminating straight, white dudes or straight people in general. The world is upside down nowadays
i mean its lowkey different, like gays dont have systemic power against straights so its not on the same level. i get some comments being a bit much but its not the same level as homophobia at all
@@zombaeqwerty you make a great point 👍
@professionalweirdo.826 As a closeted person, Facts. I get that they just want rights, but two wrongs don't make a right. If you're gonna fight for your rights, there's plenty of ways to do it than discrimination that they always say that they are against. Doesn't matter who discriminates more, because that doesn't change or excuse the other group for discriminating. I wish people could stop pointing fingers like children when the both sides are wrong and, own up to their wrongings. Discrimination is not and, never will be okay
@@user-px8en9yv9v honestly this took the words out of my mouth. Thanks for the reply :)
Ive seen fetishization first hand due to some past expericences with my friends. Im not a gay man myself but i am a part of the LGBTQ+ and it rubs me the wrong way when most or all LGBT relationships in most media are portray as always "Sweet" and "kind" and always "wholesome fluff".
I'm confused are you saying lgbtq films are fetishing queer relationships by making them wholesome?
@@Snailbasket Not exactly! There’s nothing wrong making relationships wholesome. It’s the fetishization that’s the problem. I hope you understand! 😭
These people aren't helping or supporting the community. When they were realised this
Wholesome sweet and kind are bad? It’s bad if gay men are affectionate?
@@WhiteCresentKnight 1 word. Fetishization. (Like I said there’s nothing wrong with people being affectionate)
Good Job on lifting weights my guy! Also since I got here early I wanted to say I REALLY enjoy your videos on HB, I'm glad more people are talking about this because I used to be such a massive fan, but I can't really say I am anymore without sounding like a hypocrite, also the structure is excellent!
Thank you I appreciate it alot lol I’m glad I’m not alone
@@imgalxe Most certaintly not. After I finished the video, I think one of the reasons why people say HBs writing is so "Fanficy" is because, IMO its overindulgent. Too many sickly sweet, fetishy, or ballooned overdramatic angsty performances lead to a very fanfic esque way of writing. A better writer would leave breadcrumbs and let the fandom do all the overindulging nonsense and just enjoy that. But we instead get to see viv performing OOC of her own characters.
I understand that you come from some personal experience (there is a LOT of projecting in this video I must say) but I think having a problem with the ‘babying’ of Fizz in their relationship dynamic isn’t completely fair and should not just be limited to purely ‘stereotyping’ and ‘fetishising’. Fizz’s history didn’t give him any opportunity to be in a safe, nurturing role, he’s been worked since he was a child and what little ‘affection’ in a trusted relationship he had came from Blitz, who (albeit accidentally) traumatised and abandoned him. So this ‘babying’ that ozzie provides seems like a safe space for him. We need to look to the context remember Fizz had no parenting, no maternal figure and was the breadwinner for a family that didn’t even adopt him despite knowing he was orphaned. It’s also SO common in MOST COUPLES gay/straight or otherwise to fall into baby voices and nurturing roles because of the safety and comfort that provides. Limiting that dynamic to something ‘kinky’ and unrealistic because you don’t particularly like being treated like that and unrealistic is a bit first person and closed minded. There’s a lot of credited therapist analysis of Fizz and Ozzie, I recommend checking those out!
Also although I’m justifying the babying thing i am specifically doing that in relation to this couple. I do agree that it isn’t always a healthy dynamic in some situations and it’s important to savvy the intentions. But when there seems to be genuine love emphasised at the core and it works for both parties, there’s no exploitation and it isn’t being done manipulatively it can be a fairly harmless dynamic. It works for Fizz! We should let him explore feeling safe and nurtured in a relationship. Also apologies if i came off a bit harsh at all I do really rate your take on the pair and appreciate that this is your valid opinion!
As someone who is asexual, I'm glad that I'm not the only one who thinks it's weird or it makes me uncomfortable when writers do not know how to make a normal relationship with straight or Lgbtq that "acts" and "talks" like a decent couple without fetishizing their character traits, not only Viz creates mildly toxic and shitty characters that made me cringe and felt pity for the fans who loved them, but they way she portrays its behavior in media, it's more of her fetishizes "normalized" fucked up se*ual abuse,assualt,manipulating and pervert behavior troupes as "jokes", and its disgusting to know that there are more people who praises this shit in this fandom.
I read these two as a consensual BDSM relationship honestly. The way Fizz acts is also softened for me by the fact he's a clown and likes to act silly. Is it stereotypical? Sure. But it's debatable how harmful it is. Personally I think that trying to have positive depictions of LGBT characters at all is usually better than not trying. That doesn't mean it's beyond criticism of course, but I think for this story it's important to show the contrast between these two and Stolitz, because in real life a dom/sub dynamic can be okay as long as both parties consent.
I do agree that Asmodeus' over-protectiveness feels really weird tho. Like he can't EVER let Fizz out of his place alone? That gives me an ick and makes it feel like it goes a bit beyond just playful banter.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who find this ship feel extremely sugarcoated and fetishsized. 😭 As far as I can tell gay couples act similar to straight couples except with different genders and how they display affection depends on the two people.
"Wattpad height difference" ☠️☠️😭
@3:08 im bi, i've had tons of partners most of which only lasted a few years to a few months, anyways i talk like ozzy its just something i do, its not me talking down to my partners its just me expressing my love for them. but i can see how people would hate it. but i just felt like maybe saying my stance on the topic, since i don't fetishize them i just talk like that to express my love.
@3:30 true, but like i said i only do it to people i love and am expressing my love to, i don't just talk like that to randos or when im in public i still treat them like adults. so i can see how its bad and maybe worse then bulling.
@3:40 ok now THAT i take offence too say what you want about how i talk to my partners but don't talk bad about how i ship myself with others in fiction, i am a self shipper i ship myself with people in fiction. its not me being fetishy its just me liking those characters.
@5:10 really? ff7 has no disabled people? did you forget about barrett wallace? you know the guy with a MACHINE GUN for a arm. that counts as a disability.
i would know im disabled. its one of the first things i asked my case worker.
@7:50 whos gunna tell him? because its not me. i've already said my piece.
I always felt like Fizz and Ozzie were very gentle dom/sub and kink coded as opposed to representing a normal relationship. (Like all the gear they have lying around.)
Also like how Stolas and Blitz are explicitly into kink and had a very hard dom dynamic. (With physical pain) And how Angel also likes kink. I think it’s part of Vivziepop’s personal preferences and artistic expression.
I can see how this would be taken as infantilizing and bad representation. I also see their relationship appealing to people who like kink, especially to someone who identifies as submissive. And that’s why Fizz acts so child-like around Ozzie in the relationship, he feels safe and coddled and Ozzie likes to act like a gentle dom/Daddy.
I feel like saying There are no relationships like this and real life is kind of harmful because the whole reason why I like this representation is because it reminds me so much of my relationship. My boyfriend likes to act childish and I like to take care of him. I think it's cute. I also though don't think that their relationship is perfect because I can see some controlling aspects from Izzy and also you're right about the classism aspect. I think if there rolls were reverse it would be a lot more interesting.
I am so happy someone is finally talking about this. The way they were written gave me such a massive ick. They literally talk like some teenage girls wattpad yaoi fanfic 😭 Made me so uncomfortable.
Nice job on the weight lifting! Wishing the best for you to reach your goals! The points you brought up were really good but I genuinely really think more communities needs to talk about the gay infantilization more because it not only gets swept under the rug, it gets idolized which is really concerning :(
We got robbed of a lovely antagonist couple where they are against Blitzø but are more “morally grey” They were so fun and equally “cunty” in episode seven. It seemed like they didn’t give a shit about the public’s perception and they were just having fun! Like I said before we got robbed of an antagonistic, fun, equal, and loving couple who could’ve showed up ever so often to fuck with our main characters and sing a song! I think I would have rather that happen. Though… after the “You’ll never have to go outside again” line from Ozzie and fizz looking down sadly I just can’t help but hope all of this might be addressed in a future episode, they’ll take a break, then end up coming back together and changing their dynamic.
I AGREE WITH YOU SO MUCH I AM SO GLAD I WASN'T THE ONLY ONE.
I honestly think it's cute. Bc i see myself as fizz bc i want to be in a relationship where i can be protected instead of being the protector. But i dont wanna be treated like a baby too.
(Btw- im not gay im straight but i have similar feelings)
@@LadyLemonMD no that’s understandable! That’s totally fine to want to be like that in a relationship, I’m saying the problem is when it’s to this extent, when your partner treats like you a toddler who needs them for everything
@@imgalxe yeah I feel you bro
@@imgalxe Ozzie does not treat Fizz like a toddler. We have seen Fizz on his own without Ozzie and Ozzie respects Fizz's autonomy. In fact, Fizz actively tries not to rely on Ozzie. That's also ignoring that Fizz is shown to be in charge of waking Ozzie up and scheduling his appointments.
this is very cathartic to watch as someone who has had that "gay best friend" treatment you described and also someone who didn't like the pairing very much. i could never figure out why i disliked their relationship(haven't really watched helluva boss since s2e7) but you hit the nail on the head. i used to be very active in a jojo fan space some years back and ended up seeing a good share of this type of fetishization. whenever i'd call it out i'd get bombarded with people defending this type of behavior(infantilizing queer men especially). i don't think straight people realize how much this drives off actual queer men. i think i may have personal bias against fizzarolli x asmodeus as well because while i'm not physically disabled i do have a disability that had caused me to be infantilized a lot so seeing fizz get treated like that grosses me out lmao.
9 minutes of absolutely nothing.
I haven't heard many people say that gay people aren't better than straight people just because they're gay, mostly because nobody really talks about it. I'm genuinely happy that people are bringing this up, because (as a straight person), I've been dealing with impostor syndrome in my online friend group, because almost everyone in it is LGBT in one way or another. I often feel left out because it feels like they're being treated better, whether inside or outside the group (not usually on purpose). I completely agree that nobody is better than anyone else because of sexuality, and I agree that everyone should just be treated like a human being. Good video
I have once seen people in my neighbourhood see two my friends - a gay couple - and ask weird questions, like who's the top and who's the bottom. As if it were any of their bussiness! And then, they said they already knew who's the bottom because one of them is taller and more confident, and the other is slightly smaller and more shy. And then, they suddenly treated the shy one like a baby! First of all, why would it be embarrassing to be a bottom? Second, from having had talks with some of my friends - including them - about more intimare experiences, I know it's the other way around. Apparently, they have experienced it once before, too :/
@@littleshiki6917 omfg I hate that too! Believe it or not I’m more on the awkward side and yeah I’ve gotten that same treatment of people treating me like a baby. Like you’re just making it more embarrassing for me
@@littleshiki6917 omfg I hate that too! Believe it or not I’m more on the awkward side and yeah I’ve gotten that same treatment of people treating me like a baby. Like you’re just making it more embarrassing for me
Bro, I’m not even gonna lie I find you so heartwarming
Never at ALL have I heard a person say 'I’m a normal human being, just like everyone else, just because I’m LGBTQ doesn’t mean you need to put me on a pedestal"
I remember one time me and my friends (which apologized btw) were watching some anime I dunno, recommended by my friend.
I pointed out to a female character (I’m female) "Wow she’s so pretty"
And my friend said
"Lesbian Energy! Straight up a QUEEN"
I just responded with
"I’m straight I just like the way they drew"
They kept asking if I was sure, like yes I’m sure.
I eventually said
"Yes, I’m straight-"
Trying not to seem annoyed yet they just said
"Boo.." while doing a thumbs down ._.
Like, is there an issue with straight people or just being straight on its own?? Like don’t get me wrong LGBTQ get clowned on but so do straight people by just being straight-
And honestly I don’t like using the words 'straight' or 'gay' I just like to say 'Oh he likes men' or 'she has no preference' because some of those flags and words are confusing 😭
For me in my opinion South Park is the only media I’ve seen do these stereotypes right and that just because someone’s different doesn’t mean you should treat them like a child because of their disability you should treat them like a normal person like the characters jimmy and Timmy the kids don’t make fun of them they treat them normally same with big gay al who is the most stereotypical gay ever yet he’s done right and sometimes even treated more than just the gay stereotype.
FizzxOzzie has problems that not just paint the bad gay couple stereotypes, but lore wise it can destroy the foundation of the seven sins of hell.
All of Fizz's problems and traumas were introduced in one episode are SOMEHOW fixed in THAT SAME EPISODE. This not only spit people who took way longer to recover trauma, but also presented as something that can be brushed off as long as someone apologizes or "singing a song". Probably the worst execution on how to deal traumas and scars.
Ozzie being a complete opposite of the embodiment of Lust (aside the sex thing) can have disastrous effects. Meaning someone of the higher up or other princes of hell see this as a treason and will do everything to replace him or worse punish him for not fullfiling his role correctly. And the fact the trial will be commenced in the upcoming episodes convinces me that Ozzie's choice, regardless what it is can shaken his relationship with Fizz.
5:22 there are actually 2 canonical lgbt characters in jjk, uraume (non-binary) and kirara (trans mtf)
My bad I’m a fake fan 😔
I’d like to bring something up. There seems to be way more mlm couples than any other in Vivziepops cartoons. The only wlw couples are charlie and vaggie and the two women from the first episode of hb. I don’t think the latter is very important to the plot, however. You also see almost no mlw couples. Moxie and Millie count, but what rubs me the wrong way is that they’re both bisexual. Don’t get me wrong, there’s no issue with that. You can love someone of the opposite gender, and still be bisexual. I’m bi myself, and I love someone of the opposite gender. It still irks me that they’re both bi. It’s hardly brought up in the actual show, but god forbid they’re straight. Another character that I belive is straight is Nifty, but she doesn’t have many lines in every episode, and isn’t very vocal about it. To me, it sort of feels like Vivzie has a f*tish for gay men. And that she’s allergic to straight people.
I’d also like to point out that Husk and AD fit the “strong bad boy x soft baby” narrative, as well.
@@marriedtojessepinkman THIS THIS THIS
Yeah like when they showed all their sexualities for pride month I was like… really? Not everyone is gay lmfao they’re still a minority, you mean to tell me not one of the mfs shown were straight? Well I mean Octavia could be, we don’t know what gender she’s attracted to, just that she’s asexual.
Dude this is why I write gay couples like normal ppl I honestly hate fetishized lgbtq ppl to a point where I wrote a lesbian character who has a similar situation with being fetishized, also I’m glad someone pointed this out, I hate all lgbtq stereotypes and try to avoid them best I can, by interviewing lgbtq ppl about their own experiences, their opinions on these topics, study LGBTQ history, and go off my own personal experience, it’s really not that hard to avoid these stereotypes I also hate when LGBTQ ppl are put on a pedestal in a story like LGBTQ are normal human beings, and the pansexual characters are the ones I hate the most when it comes to vivze pop like the recent pride art, pansexuals are not just h0rny all the time, as a pan person that’s not how pansexality works, though I do appreciate LGBTQ representation people need to write them better
I'm not sure if anyone knows, but there's also a background couple that turned the characters in it into wattpad gays. They were originally seen with Verosika, and after that, every other appearance they've made, the height difference grows. :(
Yeah, it's pretty weird how Viv and the writers portray mlm and or queer men relationships specifically. And her being queer doesn't change how strangely Ozzie & Fizz's relationship is written. (cause I believe Viv is bisexual, could be wrong though). The writers really like giving the horny, men or just men in general the spotlight. Like it would be nice to see the girls do some stuff, though it's a little better in Hazbin Hotel with characters like Charlie and Vaggie. Pretty off topic but I also dislike the over sexualization, like I think discussions around sex should be open and honest and people should be comfortable talking about it. But topics like that aren't explored in either show at all. Even if I now hate the show, I still care about the fun parts of it and the paths these characters could or could've gone on. So, it would be nice to see in this supposed "edgy, horny demon show" actually bring the topic up and have characters (maybe like Blitzø and Stolas) talk about boundaries and Blitzø can teach Stolas some things and could be an episode about self discovery, while also being good advice for the audience. But no sex is brought up as a joke so many times that it actively takes away from a scene and makes everything unfunny, since they did it so many times. Like I feel this show wastes some lines or scenes because they want to tell a dumb joke. Every line counts, so why does it feel like my time is being wasted or any character can make a joke and it doesn't matter who it is. There was a good video made by Madeline Maye "A Brief Look At The Conservation of Helluva Boss". I don't agree with everything they had to say in a previous video, but I think they made an interesting point here. Anyway enough rambling a lot, nice video and you definitely have a point. It's nice seeing people around my age be more than the "Gen Z is ruining this generation", stereotype. I'm actually doing RUclips now and it would be cool to collab with you if you want. Keep up the good work, because with channels like these people come to you because they care about your opinion, I at least hardly care about super good quality. As long as you have something informative or interesting to say, and your trying with what you have is what matters.
btw I find way funnier that they prefer to put a entire scene in the Ozzie episode about them making sex toys than the joke itself because... Like you will really pay for this?
I just want to say this, Beastars did this better (on the height difference and Ozzie treating Fizz like some which is weird) for example with Haru in both manga and show she is 18 meaning she's legally an adult but due to her being dwarf rabbit along with said appearance she looks like a kid to the other students (just the guys), hell I beilive she even mentions she doesn't want treated a child she wants to be treated like the adult she is. That's all I have to say
I actually find it fascinating that the leader of lust is more cute cheesy and kawaii wattpatt shit rather than being sexual all the time
Personally I disagree with this even if I see your point. I just find their relationship sweet and a nice healthy counterpart to Stolitz.
@@pawnhearts8785 thank you for respecting my opinion!
As a gay man, I say they're adorable together.
And I love their relationship, it's cute.
I felt that they were making Fizz a UWU anime fem-boy when they drew him in an oversized tee shirt with the sleeve off the shoulder and him being in that cutesy knee pose. Immediately I knew that this was fujioshi yaoi schlock instead of an actual relationship.
Thank god I thought I was the only one who didnt like this ship 😭
i had to pause the episode, stand up, and take a walk out of the utter cringe i experienced every time asmodeus would be all ANGERY DADDY DOM about fizz being hurt or kidnapped or harrassed by mammon. you can be mad if your partner gets hurt, but when its done in THIS dynamic its so fucking unsettling and it makes me wanna pull the trigger
This and an essay on tubmlr made me decided to write Ozzie and Fizz as simply FWB/co-workers on designing sex toys and shipping Fizz with Blitz, because it makes sense, now I need to figure out a way to add my OC and make it a threesome
Thank you @GalXE :) for opening my eyes on a what could've been Stoliz but healthy but it really isn't
@@Void_Twilight_and_theStars oh uh no problem lol, do you still have the Tumblr post?
Speaking as a bi trans guy who fits into the Fizz x Ozzie stereotypes... I feel like you're playing into respectability politics a lot here. There's nothing wrong with dominance and submission, nor having those dynamics be strongly defined and apparent. Fizz is a brat, and Ozzie is a tamer. Fizz plays up being cute and subby, and Ozzie plays up being dominant. It's roleplay, and it's kink. And there's nothing wrong with those things.
"Just try to stay out of trouble, [pet name]" may be something YOU would never want your partner to say to you, but that doesn't mean it's wrong when other couples do it. Kink and roleplay might be uncomfortable FOR YOU, but that doesn't mean it's wrong when other couples enjoy it, and there's nothing wrong with writing couples that way either. Helluva Boss and Hazbin Hotel both have a lot of issues with writing- especially the latter- but there is nothing wrong with how Fizz and Ozzie's relationship is portrayed. I honestly see a my relationship with my boyfriend reflected in it.
Ozzie isn't being disrespectful or dismissive towards Fizz. This is their dynamic, and they enjoy it that way. Their relationship never came across to me as fetishizing at all... It just feels like a relationship to me, especially because it's pretty similar to my own. People like that actually exist... And that's fine. We should be represented too, just like people with more "respectable" or "conventional" relationship styles.
ETA: There's nothing wrong with the height difference either. I actually really enjoy ships with big height differences because I see myself in them. I'm very short, and my partners tend to be much taller than me. Of course, Fizz and Ozzie have a very exaggerated height difference, but I actually really enjoy that. Especially because, when you and your partner have a notable height difference, that difference often DOES feel highly exaggerated. So, again... It feels like you're projecting your own personal feelings onto queer men as a whole.
"It feels like you're projecting your own personal feelings onto queer men as a whole" Honestly, I felt this a lot from the video too. I can understand not wanting this type of relationship or actively finding it unappealing, everyone has their own preferences to what they desire romantically & sexually, but I feel like the root of most of his points were projection and a huge lack of confidence.
He reminds me a lot of myself back when I was early in my transition and angry at the community because of the way that people outside of it view us when I was really just deeply upset by myself and how painful it was for me to even just *live* pre-HRT & pre-surgery. "Most of the people that infantilize the LGBT community are LGBT themselves" was particularly upsetting, familiar, and an objectively false statement, but very oddly placed considering the basis of the video. We're complaining about the portrayal of gay relationships by someone who isn't a gay man and simultaneously deciding to attack our own community? Why? Because gay relationships can look very, very different from each other and some of them don't appeal to cishets?
And for OP, I promise things will get better. I see an older version of myself in you and you'll develop more confidence, even if it's later rather than sooner - don't give up. Our community isn't at fault for how cishets view us and we will *never* be good enough for all of them, even at our most "normal" - only concern yourself with living as your authentic self and prioritize the people in your life who support you. That's what's important.
For someone accusing OP of projecting their personal feelings onto the LGBTQ community, alot of people sure seem to be arguing "well irl me and MY [x] are like this so i dont find this very fetishising!" In these god forsaken comments.
If these feelings are personal, who cares? This just how the original person feels about their relationship, nothing more. Theyre not asking you to agree but listen and understand. Not to mention that if you watched the video more closely you'd be gettting more evidence for this person's point.
The thing is dynamics like Fizz and Ozzie can and do exist in real life and deserve respect, i dont think OP is saying that they don't, but the problem is that Vivzie doesnt actually provide much respect for this type of relationship. First of all, Fizz's previously threatening character as a rival for Blitzo is completely ruined once this episode came out: hes hardly a footnote anymore after forgiving Blitzo on a hat. Uh, also, Fizz is a lower class entertainter, an imp, while Asmodeus is a powerful widespread business owner and political figure. Does that sound normal to you? I think if Fizz was a woman I swear a lot of gay men in these commnts would not be arguing the "gay men exist like this in real life!!" BS.
Op isnt just talking about two scenes they have, they're also talkiing about Fizz's general characterization and the power dynamic at play not being any less similar to Stolas and Blitzo. And sure near the end of the vudeo they say some things you might disagree with but that's only because they're talking about their own experience in the LGBTQ community. Theyre not "attacking anyone" as this reply says here.
Could the original video have provided better points on this? Sure. But i wouldn't use that as an excuse to dismiss why someone other than yourself might feel uncomfortable with this relationship.
Finally it isn’t just me!! I am so sick and tired of the “UwU baby” trope which seems to be the norm in Helluva. Not to mention there’s an aggressively rampant stereotype, especially with mlm, that one of them has to be either hyper feminine or such an obscurely pathetic bottom it’s a surprise they’re still alive.
The only good rep I’ve seen of normal queer mlm relationship in recent memory is given.
Viv has never actually meet a gay person in her life and the way she portrays them makes its painfully clear
She literally writes alongside Brandon Rogers, a gay man 💀