How Open World Games Die ► The Waypoint Epidemic
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- Опубликовано: 2 июл 2024
- A waypoint should make you say “I want to go there.” Waypoints are a pervasive issue affecting the future of all videogames just being mindless chores.
A journey into the wild world of open-world games and how they can lose their immersion due to an overwhelming number of objectives. Join Moxie as she explores the reasons behind this "waypoint epidemic" and why players crave a more immersive experience. Don't miss out on this eye-opening video - subscribe now!
🌟 *Featured Games:*
- Starfield
- The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind
- Batman: Arkham City
- Outerwilds
- League of Legends
- Terraria
- Cyberpunk 2077
- Far Cry Series
- Assassin's Creed Series
- Final Fantasy Series
- Skyrim
- Elden Ring
- The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom & Breath of the Wild
- Baldur's Gate 3
This video was written in collaboration with my brother Joseph Bradley. Thank you so much for your suggestion & for writing this excellent piece.
Description:
Join Moxie as we dive into the fascinating world of in-game waypoints and their impact on player immersion. In this video, we explore the delicate balance between guiding players and maintaining the immersive experience that keeps us hooked on our favorite games. From the nostalgic days of Morrowind to the expansive realms of Starfield and Elden Ring, we analyze how different titles handle this challenge. Are waypoints a helpful tool or a hindrance to true exploration? Let's find out together!
🎮 Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction
00:52 - The Waypoint Mechanic: A Gaming Crutch?
02:02 - Starfield & Waypoint Overkill
02:36 - Detective Missions and Hand-Holding
04:04 - The Usefulness of Waypoints in Moderation
04:16 - Stray
04:27 - Cyberpunk
04:36 - Far Cry
04:54 - Assassins' Creed
05:02 - Final Fantasy: From Open World Exploration to Linear Guidance
06:29 - Skyrim and Elden Ring: A Comparison of Exploration Styles
08:15 - Biomutant
08:26 - Zelda's Approach to Waypoints
09:30 - Baldur's Gate 3: A Mixed Bag of Waypoints ft. @Drakenwild
12:30 - Concluding Thoughts: Balancing Immersion and Guidance
✨ Connect with Moxie:
- Twitter: / moxie_watts
- Twitch: twitch.com/moxiewatts
👉 Support My Channel:
- Patreon: patreon.com/moxiewatts
🔔 *Subscribe for more gaming content:* / @moxiewatts
Footage Used:
• The Elder Scrolls V: S...
Hashtags:
#Gaming #GameDesign #Waypoints #VideoGames #GamerTalk #EldenRing #Skyrim #Cyberpunk2077 #FinalFantasy #AssassinsCreed #BaldursGate3 #GameAnalysis
*Tags:*
video game design, waypoints in gaming, gaming immersion, game mechanics, open world exploration, game design analysis, Elder Scrolls, Final Fantasy, game storytelling, player guidance, gaming experience, Moxie gaming, game development, Skyrim exploration, Elden Ring gameplay, Cyberpunk 2077, RPG games, game design critique 
Игры
Thanks for having me fam!
Loved this video, and 100% agree.
Imho I think games should offer a toggle in the menu, and boom easy. You want em? You can have em. You don’t? Turn em off! Easy.
It’s crazy how much games like Skyrim use them as a crutch. I remember playing Morrowind and being told to go to the city of Balmora, and that game has NO WAYPOINTS. I had to read street signs in the game, talk to NPCs, and directions to find my way. It was fantastic.
Based on what’s been said in this video, I HIGHLY HIGHLY HIGHLY RECOMMEND playing TUNIC and/or Hollow Knight for those immersive, waypointless experiences that just allow you to get absolutely lost in their worlds. Neither are technically open world, but they are immersive as hell and both really brilliant.
Thanks for the video homie
thanks for watching homie!
noted on tunic and hollow knight. im currently lost in BG3 rn LMAO
While you are correct, in my opinion, this video ignores the reason for why we have so many. Players literally complained about the older games, and how it became too difficult to find their objectives. At the time, it was a simple fix, and people genuinely loved waypoints. When the industry finds something people like, they smash that button till it breaks. Now, the fix has become a problem on it's own.
Excellent point. No matter if we ultimately fix this new problem any time soon, it makes me genuinely appreciate the developers who have that healthy balance.
waypoints are great for accessibility, but they become a problem when playing the game makes no thought to being played without them (uses them as a crutch for bad/lazy world/quest/level design)
This was such a great video and analysis of contemporary game design!! I was just talking to my buddy about how waypoints make it feel like the game developer does not respect your intelligence, creativity, or intuition. In turn, we lose interest in something we are kind of "forced" to do rather than to truly discover and get immersed. Love the vids, you guys rock!!
Thanks! Someone had to say it 😅
I was particularly fond of BotW/TotK's waypoints for certain quests. A lot of them would put a map marker leading you back to the person who gave you the quest, and it was up to you to figure out what their cryptic riddle meant.
Playing my first FromSoft game (Bloodborne) and I absolutely love and respect the way they just allow you to learn every path and location like you mentioned about Elden Ring.
As much as open world adventures are my favorite genre of games, it all depends how I want it, waypoints or not. The Legend of Zelda series is an obvious example. While the games prior to Breath of the Wild are more like “I want to go there, but you can’t, you gotta have a certain item for that” sort of style of gameplay, but it’s more or less a similar formula Nintendo had already established that Nintendo’s own Super Metroid and Konami’s Castlevania: Symphony of the Night would adapt. Metroidvania is the appropriate term, while mostly on the sidescrolling style of gameplay, it can comply to 3D free roam gameplay too. I prefer this kind of style because I want there to be some restriction, but only when it doesn’t limit the player to indulge himself in the world around him. Then you have the kind of open world titles where it encourages you to play through the story first and then the world is yours to your heart’s content. LEGO City: Undercover is an obvious example of that, and it’s got more waypoints than you can count. I do like how it plays, but it gets annoying when the NPCs constantly call your character for the sake of completing the story. (I do believe GTA has this too… surprise or not…) Then the RPG-style open worlds have you roaming the world without limits, but OOPS! There’s an enemy more than thrice your current level, TIME TO GRIND! 50+ hours of grinding later… I don’t like this logic… Then you have an entry of a series that stayed linear up to this point that suddenly implements open world for the sake of being a GOTY contender. Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes/The Phantom Pain is another obvious example. I remember playing the living hell out of it. I’m 91% completed in it, but thinking back… it was an unnecessary entry. Tbh, Metal Gear should’ve ended with 4 back in 2008. I never liked Peace Walker and MGS5 didn’t need to turn Metal Gear into an open world. And THEN there’s the kind of open world that despite the attention to detail and world building, the value is just wasted as the whole journey is invested with trials that drag from beginning to end. Both BOTW and TOTK fall into this, which has me to beg for Nintendo to make the future games much smaller. The bigger and more ambitious the game is, the less the value in both content and visuals.
That Guy Bis made “Why Aren’t Games Fun Anymore?”. I highly recommend you check it out.
Going to watch then. I’ll replu
This is so good mox!
A morrowind mention?! Based! Great work as always moxie!
Oftentimes, open world can also comply with 3D collect-a-thons. I love this style of platformers. Super Mario 64, Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Donkey Kong 64 (criminally underrated), A Hat In Time… the list goes on. (I wanted to say Yooka-Laylee, but… it NEEDS a massive polish.)
Hey, Moxie. Want something more like Wind Waker but references Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door? A Hat In Time is just that! I mostly recommend the base game because the 2 downloadable expansions has me scratching my head with plot. AND NEVER TRY DEATH WISH!!! You’ll be sorry when you do…
Ohhhh i just read about a hat in time. It’s a plat-former?
Yes.
Great video! Great ‘points’ made.
😂 thanks homie
I must admit though. Waypoints in No Man’s Sky are pretty good. You actually have to earn each one. Otherwise you blindly explore till you find what your looking for
Ah never played, is it worth picking up?
@@moxiewatts only on sale. For a game about exploring exotic planets. They don’t have a lot of variation in geography
I use to have a similar view about what I called "in-game help" but.. I've also come to understand that if everyone is FORCED to pay perfect attention to npc dialogue and read all every line of flavor text.... that's not respecting the player's IRL time. I think a few toggles for how much the game should help you get to the next objective would be best way to go about it. Those who only have a few hours a day, if that, and are here strictly for the story; they can leave the toggles on. Players looking for that "I got lost in the world and the possibilities" can turn them off. Yeah there would be some very gamey popups at the start of "Do you want this system enabled" nonsense, but I don't really see another way to make something deliver to so many different wants from a game.
IN GAME HELP
for real though its like, im smart enough homie.
perhaps it should be something that is toggled on instead of toggled off? idk
Default toggled on or toggle off.. idc... more accessibility options / customized ways to play is just better for the industry as a whole. You could even just do a blank screen with text when making a new file "Do you want way points for XYZ?"@@moxiewatts
really good! one of those videos that i expected would have way more views than it does
*sigh* ill keep on truckin
@@moxiewatts with the quality i'm sure it'll get big at some point!
New Vegas - One more for my baby. A detective quest where you can get it wrong with different outcomes.
Bethesda is wierd, like the 'Lead storywriter' Emil Pagliarulo said in a press conference that he didnt care about writing stories because 'The players will only make paper planes from the story and go build shacks for 300 hours.'
Euggh.
Me - A person who doesn't want a crafting system anywhere near them. (Modded New Vegas yes? XD )
MGS 2...... Are you Ames?
It would be nice to go old skool and have like, riddles and find it yourself stuff.
SPOILERS BELOW.....
Dat ending tho.... I want to go...... There..... EEEEEE :D I LOVE it!
Ahhh new Vegas I forgor 🤣
LOL new Vegas is so good but also so is that ending.
Something weird I've been doing for Fromsoft games is that I turn the resolution waaaaaaay down on them. I also use my Nvidia control panel to turn transparency anti-aliasing to 8X.
Why?
1st. My vision is bad enough that I don't mind the loss of detail and
2nd. Because doing so helps hide the seams(if you will) between the different game elements. This way the spell effects and the character models and the grass and the landscape and that castle in the distance and everything are less capable of being different from each other that way. The resolution of the sprite textures of a spell, the edge of a blade of grass, a dragon's fire breath all look a little more connected this way. They all look a little more like they're in the same world together this way. The Erd Tree and Stormveil all look so much more part of the game this way.
This is even more true for Armored Core 6, that desperately needed more atmospheric perspective to help sell it's scale.
10/10 would highly recommend. =)
I could not agree more. I find playing open world games (with the exception of a few) to be a bit tedious now. Did you play Forbidden West? That whole game just felt like one giant way point, constantly following arrows and markers!
The elder scrolls 3 vs 4 debate. Classic
A perfect solution to make everybody happy, is to have waypoints be toggle-able
The ff section of this made me realize the only final fantasy games I’ve played are 3 6(3) and 9 then loving them all. I wonder if 12 is good
I am shocked you lasted the entire video showing clips from Outer Wilds but not saying a word about it xD
I cut it 😅
@@moxiewatts lol, that explains it xD
Maybe she didn’t wanna spoil ppl
🥹👉👈
Hellooooo. 😁