I was thinking when I was editing that I could have maybe explained what I would do now a bit better: When I was thinking about my foundations and weighing up a concrete slab vs piers and joists I thought that the slab had to be above the highest ground level which would have made the whole slab so thick it would have cost far too much as concrete companies price in £ per m3. So while I did create a retaining wall of sorts (I filled in between the block piers at the back) to hold back the earth, it never occurred to me waterproof the retaining wall and then have a concrete slab at a lower level which would have meant: 1) I could have built to a lower overall height and still had a great ceiling height (mine is about 2.4m) 2) There would be no gap at the front or sides There were other reasons why I didn't go for concrete: clay soil, hiring a company, tree roots, problem with planning (officers didn't like that concrete would interfere with a tree with a TPO) etc. As for the height of my building, back left ground level to top of the front fascia: 2.9m - so within my 3m planning :)
John Ramsden Not when within 2 meters of a boundary, 2.5 meters is the maximum overall height permitted. At a distance of over two meters you CAN build up to 2.5m eves height with a total height of upto four meters for a dual pitched roof, 3 meters for other roof types.
A perfectly timed guide, I’ve been trying to figure out how to get as much height as I can within permitted development. It looks like a slab an retaining wall is going to be the answer.
I've since spoken to someone at the local planning office and it would seem the vagueness of the wording allows some flexibility, so the natural ground level along the hedge line of our sloped garden (right to left) can be used to take the height from without the need for a slab and retaining wall that's part of the structure as the structure will cut into that corner. It's still a very woolly thing so don't just take my word for it. Take lots of photos for evidence and keep the neighbours informed and on side was the advice I was given.
Great youtube as always. My build starts in June. Planning a insulated floating floor on a concrete ground bearing slab, so hoping you will cover this subject soon. With a view to the tight inside height, I keep changing my mind about the thickness of PIR on the floor, ranging from 50 to 100mm!!!!!!
Thinking along the same lines here too. Building upon an existing (old garage) uninsulated ( I assume) concrete pad. Details on insulating a floating floor would be most handy.
If anyone wants to know, you can build upto 30 meter square without planning and that's wall to wall so for instance you could have a roof area of 36 meter square and will still be within regs, take into consideration that you cant go over 50% of your remaining land including the front garden, hope this helps 😊
That does muddle planning and building regs somewhat - building regs not required under 30m2 measured internally (provided no sleeping accommodation) and if within 2m of the boundary substatially non combustible. For Planning, permitted developmwnt has the 2.5m height limitation within 2m of boundary. Important to know the two are completely separate, don’t talk to eachother, and often is somewhat confusing!
@@JoeFoster I'm currently building a double skin brick built garden room which is approx 4x9m =36sqm. Internally the after the cavity this will take me below the 30sqm rule and building regs inpection is not required. However, you still want to build it to a good standard! Its all very confusing but the info is out there if you search. It will be within 1m of the boundary so no higher than 2.5m. You can build under PD as big as you like (up to 50% curtilage) in terms of footprint, and building regs only apply over 30msq internally.
HI, great videos Ali, thank you, I'm using all your knowledge to build my own Garden room under permitted development (under 2.5m height, less than 15m2 internal floorspace). One piece of information I don't see covered in your videos is regarding a Garden office build on a severe slope. I'm, aware the 'building itself' can be any height at the front as long as it is 2.5m from ground level at the rear., but here is the problem - any raised platform in the front of that shed can be no bigger than 300mm! I wonder If you or any readers here know the answer to this question please? Q. if on a severe sloped garden (e.g. Where the front of the garden building would end up 900mm above ground level, (and the back ground level has been dropped also by 900mm with a retaining wall). can you have multiple raised steps to reach the door, as long as each step is less than 300mm? Thank you in advance
Just wanted to add that in Scotland the height you are allowed to build within 1m of a neighbour is 2.5m but is measured from the lowest point adjacent to the garden room which is quite restricting!
couldn’t I just dig 25 into my ground. lay hardcore then put the easypads down so that the vase of the floor is roughly just above ground? leaving enough gap for airflow around the eges
@@AliDymock I’m actually going to use c24 grade timber so I can get away with 4x2 rather than 6x2. Bit more expensive but will mean I can have more internal height
What about digging down a larger concrete base that's say 250 mm below ground level and then having the top of your floor joist being level with the outside floor level patio? Just making sure there is drainage and ventilation.
Can anyone clarify for me a point made at 6mins 30secs? It states when measuring the eaves height, you use the highest point along that wall, not any point on the building. I can only find this is the permitted development regulations. “Where ground level is not uniform (for example if the ground is sloping), then the ground level is the highest part of the surface of the ground next to the building.)”. This contradicts the video.
Hi guys, do you know if i can replace fence that i need to replace anyway with a wall that will be of my garden timber framed garage? I plan to go full width of my garden and on title both sides of fences belong to myself. Thanks!
4:30 exactly my tought, i calculated in my garden aimilar scenario, and when i take the rules into account such as not bigger than 50% of total garden and 2.5m high from the highest point in the garden, what i come up is monaterious, and if i was my neighbour i would be crazy, but aparently i dont even need planing permiasion. For. It. Bit scared how my neighbours would React but i want to build It.
Excellent video series, Ali. If building off the retaining wall (or against it), I was wondering how you would keep the structure watertight? Would you bring the slab DPM up the inside of the wall and up behind the breathable membrane on the outside of the frame?
Ali wish i had seen this great video before i figured it out. I am building a Man shed on sloping ground and it is the same as one of your examples using the rear wall as a retaining wall and this gives me a 200 mm safety margin on my sloping roof so I am well happy I did it the right way. :-)
Hi, just working out my garden room dimensions - what happens after 4 years? Are you no longer able to have it taken down if say it's 3 meters and within 2 meters of the boundary?
Spot on with the timing Ali. In the process of marking out where mine is going to go😀. Can I just double check with the over 2m from the boundary rule please. Is it over 2m from the closest wall of the garden room to the boundary or 2m from the edge of the overhang of the roof to the boundary? Thanks again, Leo
How about building under caravan act where maximum internal ceiling height is 3 metre doesnt this allow for any roof height so long as internal room dimension is not over 3 metres re: you could peak roof at 4 metre thereby allowing for warm roof insulation above 3 metre internal I would like your comments
Yup! That is a way around all this. My neighbour (house I moved to) has a cedar cladded metal container that's probably at least 3m high right on my boundary - technically it's moveable so falls under the caravan act as do things like shepherd huts
I had this exact dilemma when building my garage. I wanted a certain height door so i could fit my van under it, but then also wanted the span of the roof to be 5m. Taking into account weight of snow and lack of spanning tables, i was fast coming to the conclusion that things were going to go above the 2.5m height limit. My solution was to do some clever things with RSJ's and mount them in a way that still gave ceiling space for a roller door but also meant thinner joists could be used for the roof. RSJ's are not cheap but i was lucky to find some down a reclaim yard. Since the build though, i noticed permitted development became more popular and thus the descriptions on the government websites became a little less vague. I'm sure i read somewhere the limit was 2.5m to the eaves. The problem i had with this was that nobody could tell me whether meant the overall height or the the underside of the eaves and therefore meant your roof thickness could be whatever it needed to be to make it strong enough. I too wondered where exactly everyone was measuring this from. A friend told me though that alot is subjective and very much decided on whether someone actually complains. So, if you find your roof is an inch or 2 higher at one end, you might get away with it if you get on with your neighbors or if your neighbors land is a little higher than yours in places or if your building backs onto another plain building such as a garage or industrial unit. At the end of the day the last thing the council want to get involved in is a petty argument between neighbors. Of course if you built something purposely higher and obscenely breaking the rules then you deserve to have questions thrown at you but a little give and take usually the best action.
Well firstly smart move with the RSJs I presume these went across the 5m span and then your timber joists ran perpendicular to them? And yeh, it’s a very fancy shed at the end of the day. They don’t come out unless someone makes a fuss. But every council is different in regards to the rules which makes it very hard for people.
@@AliDymock hi, yes I had 2 RSJ's running parallel across the door opening and it meant the roller door could be positioned between them when rolled up. Then I I had a 3rd RSJ perpendicular to the first 2, and connected to the one set further back. Then the roof joists went perpendicular to the 3rd RSJ and 2 halves of the same length joined on top of the RSJ.
Hi. Could you have made your building out of block or brick construction without pp ? And, the 2.5 m max height within 2 metres of a boundary, is that also if within 2 metres of the house itself ? Thanks.
Hi Ali, Need your advice. My garden house sits on top of Paving slabs which are 10cm high from the grass level and on top of that I added concrete blocks as my foundation which gives 15cm-20cm gap under the base (due to uneven floor), i then gave the eaves height of 2.5 from the highest point of the ground to the top of the roof and then the highest point of the roof is 2.9m. It looks taller than my neighbours brick built garden house and so he has complained to the council. I need to know if I am ok and within limits? as I am thinking of dropping height from back to front out of paranoia. Thanks buddy!
In Queensland, Australia it is 2.4m height restriction without council approval. Perhaps the convicts were naturally shorter than the ones left behind.
I have very much enjoyed your garden room series. Your detailed explanation is extremely helpful 💯 I am building a 8 metres by 6 metres garage/workshop so all your info has really helped me with making certain decisions.
Thanks for this, these rules have confused me a lot! A question for you: If you are building a garden room which is 15sqm (due to it sitting on a boundary) is the sqm taken from the floor or the roof? The rules say occupied space- is this on the floor or ground? I'm wondering how much of a canopy I can build on top of the room!? Many thanks
Hi in regards to where you measure the height from. My house sits about 1m above my garden. And then the rest of the garden is all one level from there. My garden is 8m long up to the existing garage. I plan on knocking the garage down and then putting new outbuilding there. Now do i have to measure from where my outbuilding will start or can i measure from the height of where i step out of my house thanks
Timing on this video is so appropriate. I am just building one and me and my builder were both not very clear on 2.5m rule when building 2m away from fence. so to be on safer side we were going to pick the lower side of the slope. But now, we will pick up the higher side, gives me 10cm more....THANKS A LOT !!!!!!!!!!!
For a log cabin building on a steep slope. On the upper side of the slope what if the roof of the building extends out over the retaining wall, and has support pillars that rest on the retaining wall, but the actual wall of the building doesn't touch the retaining wall at all. (It is a location for keeping firewood outside and dry under the extended roof section) Where do you measure from and to for the max height of the building now? (I'm hoping that it is from the top of the wall to the apex of the roof. The wall is only 50cm tall)
Hi Ali, Hope you are well. I absolutely love your videos. Next year, I hopefully will have a garden room built. I am going to have it built within the 2 metres boundary, brick and block work and concrete slab, to maximise the ceiling height. All utilities, which will be a man cave, utility room, toilet shower and also shed/store area. I am looking to go 2.5, however I might apply for planning and go a bit higher possibly 2.8m. The things is my garden steps down, of where I was to put my garden room which will be situated at the bottom of my garden. For eg. You come out of my patio doors onto my patio, approximately 6 steps down to the grass area, and then you again step down of where I will have the garden room. The thing is I want my garden room to be level with the grass area when I open up the bifold doors and walk straight onto the grass. The drop is approximately 20vm with I will need to bring it up to level with the grass. Where would I measure the building from? And are there any opportunity for to gain more height without go for planning. Many thanks Ric
Again, another insightful video, Ali. I've found them all to be very educational and have motivated me to start my project. I'm dealing with building on a sloping site, so I have dug out an area where I will build and was intending to take advantage of the height measurement from the highest point of the adjacent land. I had not appreciated that once a retaining wall was in situ (which I will required) I would need to incorporate that into my building. I have spent a long time researching low cost methods of building a retaining wall and was about to place an order for Terraforce blocks. However, I'm now wondering if there is a better (low cost) approach to building a wall which I can easily incorporate into the building wall. Any advice here? Thanks, James
Did I miss this in another video, but the maximum height is 3m for a mono pitch roof. The eaves must be 2.5m, which begs the question what is the height of the eaves at the wall where the roof is 3m high?
A useful aside on the permitted development rules. Im currently digging holes for a block/timber foundation per your guides and have had a lot of debate with myself about insulation thicknesses and finished roof height. Have got a katherine log cabin from Tuin on its way (hopefully, once they remember to put it on the truck, they forgot for today!!) And thats 2.42m alone so 5cm ground clearance and an exageration ruler may be required for the roof insulation! I have dropped the ground height for the cabin and intend on gravel french drain style around the perimeter so unless someone comes along with a ruler i should be good.
Nice job mate So from what I understand I can excervate and then build a retaining wall then potentially gain a extra 2 meters in hight also build with a 2 meter gap from all boundaries .4 meter with a double pitched = 6 meters tall from base to pitch also this is all within permitted development 30sqm area That's for all the advise!
I laid my block piers two weeks ago. I was not entirely sure about this TBH. I guessed about the highest point as even a moderate slope would KO a usable room. I built my floors this weekend broadly in line with your original videos (but with thicker insulation) , so will be interested in your next vids.
A LOT of trades will shoot me down instantly if I ever say “I saw how to do that on RUclips”. I’d like for them to see some of your videos as you’re absolutely spot on to the smallest of detail. I’ve asked many builders and not one of them have managed to address some of the questions around eaves height and limitations that you’ve answered in this video. I’ve recently built a garden room to a similar size to yours and have been a little bit naughty when building close to my boundary. Do you have any idea on where I could get a class zero material? I’ve built my garden room in a combustible material and haven’t managed to find any cladding that comes under the “class zero” that you mentioned in a previous video.. I’m just trying to cover the worst case scenario of a neighbour complaining or a potential insurance issue..
Thanks Steven, I don't get everything right or know everything but a bit of reading and thought goes a long way. The cladding issue is a complex one but there are two routes - a cement board or a fire retardant sealant/paint though every council and b regs private company have their own ideas as to what passes. There are more rules around this but too in depth to type out here! Go with cement board and paint it to your neighbour's preference is the safest bet!
Recently been through similar and chose to go with a class 0 treatment for the timber. It's far more cost effective and there are water based products that are easy to apply and certified. Flametect CWD+ is what I have chosen - worth a look. This way you also still get a natural timber finish (can be overcoated). But as Ali says, different councils advice will vary... But just bear in mind the number of sheds/garden rooms/summer houses which are next to boundaries and over 15m2 (many). Chances they are non combustible....
Ali Dymock I kinda guessed on the cement board. I suppose I’m hoping for a miracle wood that is easily available and also soft on the eye. We can all dream I suppose!
Murray Knott thanks for the pointer... I’ll have a look at that one.. is it something that’ll go direct onto any cladding or does it need to be a particular thickness? Also, does it come in various colours and easy on the eye? Thanks
Hi Ali, loving your videos and great description of the work. I am at the moment building my man cave which the width will be 5 metres can you tell me how many millimetres or inches the drop should be from front to the back for rainwater into the guttering . Thanks Dass
Fantastic build Ali, really informative, on the issue of class 0 fire cladding you suggest cement board, can this be used over the osb board and breather membrane to just the boundary wall only, in order to conform to regulations. Followed by a timber lath and cladding?
I also consider rats when thinking off the level of a shed / garden room. A 5cm gap under a shed makes an excellent spot of a nest. A bit if digging and the piles of soil are touching the underside. 15cm high is far less appealing for a furry friend.
Glad you didn't cement the base with a cut out. Least amount of concrete is the best method as it's much better environmentally. We had no choice as we are building on a secondary plot over a dry creek and we are not allowed any major concrete work on that area. We used stones, sand, slabs, concrete pillars with rebar then filled the voids with cement and threaded bars protruding to fix the lower joists to.
Ali, great series of videos on your garden room, been following since last year. During this time i have begun my outbuilding to one day work from home and also use to move our family in whilst we do the main house. Going for building control and have a great engineer on hand. Long storey short i need lots of ceiling height to work from home one day. So.. i have been digging. 1.7m down. Its quite a massive task but nearly half way. I hope to put some videos up one day. Thanks again with all the “rules detail” its been really helpful!
@@AliDymock I truly appreciate your content Ali. I really mean it. I plan to start my commercial prototype, hopefully this year, solely based on your vids. They were a tremendous help. If you are willing to offer further (paid) consultations after this series, let me know if I can reach out to you. Stay safe.
Very useful guide, thank you for adding the reference links too in the description. Maybe add UK in the title of the video too to help others searching for UK info too :)
HI Ali, unless you can find the reference you made in this video I think they have changes the rules on the height being measured from the highest adjacent land. I've just tried to find that clause and I can't.
It's certainly possible but can't find any updated guidance on where to measure from so I would expect it's the same as before - the highest adjacent land. Did you find anything?
@@AliDymock It's take me a while to get back to this but I have now found the clause you were referring to and it still exists (unless they have closed the loophole in some other way). I want to renovate my garage by adding insulation to form a warm roof over the existing room. Fortunately, the ground is sloping and we did built a retaining wall in one corner which is part of the wall there during the build so I hoping I should be ok.
Great video and love the series. Am looking to start my build and am most nervous about mismeasuring space for windows and doors. Is this something you might be able to do a short vid on?
Ali, a MASSIVE thank you for all the effort you've put into your videos so far, hugely informative! Now I just want to plan and get on with it! Right now I'm making internal changes to my house so it's one thing at a time. Keep them coming! :)
Another informative video, I'm building a 30sqm (just over 7x4 garden room which will be close to boundary fence so I know it's going to be less than 2.5m, I'm going to clad the 3 sided with box profile as nobody will ever see it, I'm thinking of doing a concrete base but struggling to find how deep it should be, if you know could you let know please. Sorry if I've missed a video you've already done ha.
Hey Neil, that sounds like a monster and a good shape too! I think 100mm (4") is the usual depth of concrete. I'm thinking of going that way for my next one so will need to put some research in to say for sure but yeh, 100mm shouldn't crack or be too thin. Of course you want to dig deeper for sub-base (hardcore/MOT stuff) then sand blinding. Feel free to send me pics or anything else you discover, I'm interested to see!
Hi Ali. I need URGENT advice please and I would be so grateful. My garden is on a slope..the garden level goes down furtherst from the house. My builders are building an outhouse that begins (closest to the house) at 2.5m eaves height, but in order to level the building the back part of the outhouse (so towards where the slope is) the wall height from ground level to the roof is almost 2.8m. I have called Havering Planning department and they said any part of the building should be max of 2.5m from ground to the roof. I can increase the soil level to level it up byt I have a 110ft garden so that will be both expensive and a lot of effort. What do you advise? I am afraid if the inspectors come and measure the furtherest part of the building it will breach their conditions. Fortunately the roof is not up yet so I was going to tell them to reduce the back to 2.5m too but it means losing internal height space. Your video is brilliant thank you. I forgot to add the planning "officer" stated they would check the eaves height from the LOWEST point of the ground and not the highest and that all 4 corners of the outbuilding needs to be max eave height of 2.5m. Can you confirm if indeed the planning inspector is called they only measure from the highest ground level as suppose to going round the entire building and measuring it all?
Hey, only just saw this. From what I've heard over the years, planning officers and building regs aren't always up to speed with the rules or apply them as they think best. In this case you can point them to the statutory instruments showing what the case is and they should reconsider. 2.8m isn't that high so I doubt they'll be against it. If they measured from lowest height in your case you simply couldn't build a garden room so it's not correct.
Nice one Ali, brilliant, as usual. Quick question, for you, or anyone else that's 100% sure. If I build a garden room, and stay under planning permission (not above 2.5m height and under 30sqr mtrs externally size) could I have an additional hot-tub area, that was still part of the build (roof and back wall only, CANOPY) but would make the structure bigger. Would this be classed as needing planning permission, or with it not being an internal space (no front or side wall, open) would I get away with it? Tough one, but need to know 👍
Your best bet would be to get planning. Or to go down that route until you find you don’t need to. That is, submit some plans, then pay for ‘pre planning advice’ (my council offer this and I assume others will have their own form) and they will guide your submission. Yes you’re paying ~£200 to submit plans and then a further ~£100 for the advice, but you would have official guidance on what they would and would not allow. I know it’s another £300 of cost, but the piece of mind could be worth that. It is the route I plan to take when rebuilding my garage which has zero chance of being PD.
Thanks Ali. In respect of the 2.5m height on sloping ground, I'm not sure that I fully agree with your interpretation of 'adjacent to' and the limitations which then follow. Adjacent is defined variously as "next to or adjoining something else", "close to or near something", "lying next to, close, or contiguous; neighbouring; bordering on". Your first compliant scheme could be described as adjoining and hence a fair interpretation. Similarly, the second could be viewed as contiguous and therefore consistent with an interpretation of 'adjacent' . However, for me, the 'next to' or 'close to' interpretations, as vague as they are, may leave other options open. I'm working on an extreme sloping site and certainly hoping this is the case. I would be keen to know of any test cases relating to this parameter. Thanks again for your inspirational series of videos! As a postscript, I just checked the wording of "Permitted development rights for householders: Technical Guidance" para E1 (e) of which states "...measured from the highest ground level immediately adjacent to the building..." Note the addition of the word *immediately*. Accordingly, I suspect that this more recent document - September 2019 - provides the necessary clarification thus squashing my third interpretation and potentially giving me a headache!
Why don't you talk to your local planning department about this if you have any doubts about your own case? They may decide to make a site visit, but in any case the conversation will then be on file for future reference should anyone complain about your building in the future.
Excellent video series, Ali. I was wondering how you would keep the structure waterproof if building on top of (or touching) the retaining wall? Would you take the slab DPM up the inside of the retaining wall and up behind the breathable membrane on the outside of the frame?
I wonder if you have done research on the feasibility of a Granny Annexe of the non permanent variety to avoid planning permission. Affectively the caravan rule
I just built mine without all of this. Right up to boundary on one side and about 1100mm from the other. About 2.9 m high. Built on raised , filled in, hollow blocks. Put a DPM over the damp soil and dressed the gap at the front with stacked old stocks , with a few gaps for vent. It had plent round the other three sides though. Been up ten years, no complaints.
Yeh this is rather my attitude as well, but best to know the rules to then decide how much to break them by! Or perhaps ignorance is bliss. The key is that you got no complaints, if you did and had someone from regs or the council out they could be arsey. Still you're past the 5 year rule now 👍
Another excellent video. I can see myself slow-replaying these over next couple of months now I’m finally progressing my garden gym (thanks Ali for your reply on the other video on flooring for heavy weights). Headroom is a critical factor for me as needs to be high enough for an overhead press with Olympic plates on the bar and I’m 6ft tall. I like the idea of just digging down and setting the blocks/timber base below ground level. A novice question I’m sure but is that possible or can one only go significantly below ground level if using a concrete slab and retainer walls?
Hey Chris, I’ve seen it done but ventilation to the underside of the joists is tricky. A bit of a risk basically. Makes sure it’s a dry site before going for it.
Ali, fantastic videos. I was wondering if you have quants and costs detailed out that you might be able to share? I am looking at similar dimensions but would like to have a good idea of costs for budgeting purposes. Also, based on the what you've said, I presume I can extend the canopy and decking at the front without breaking the 30m2 limit?
I don’t have a definitive answer and it will vary so much even if you have the same size garden room. I’d budget £10-20k but can be done for a lot less OR a lot more! Yup have as a big an overhang as you like as long it doesn’t break the >50% of land around the house rule.
Videos are brilliant by the way. Quick question, my shed will be internally insulated but wasn't sure how to do the external. Do I need OSB then a vapour barrier then weatherboard? or just vapour barrier then weatherboard?
Umm, so you need a breathable membrane on the outside not a VB here in the UK. You can have OSB or go without then before your weatherboard or whatever cladding you choose you'll want battens which I'll cover in Part 20 of the main series :)
Being as it's in the householders favour I always wondered about the height measurement being from the `highest' point of sloped ground. The crazy example you showed running down the garden being permitted just makes this allowance incorrect to me (I'm not complaining btw!). I genuinely think someone from the original team of planners creating these laws cocked it up early on, it was missed and then too late to change after publication and permissions had been given! Great vid as always.
Or they were trying to be fair and give everyone a chance of building something in their garden. Imagine that crazy example the other way round... you’d have to dig out 10s of m3 of earth in order to create the building, which could end up being entirely below ground level and with maybe no way (sensible) way to get to it! That said, I would love a Colin Furze style underground bunker, but I don’t think I could afford one!
What a fantastic video, very well explained. As part of my previous job I used to do quite a few planning applications....and I discovered it's very hard to find these bits of information out - the permitted development guidance notes simply don't define the actual practical info you need. You've missed out a useful construction method for foundations. This is building on pads - basically you dig down a series of holes using a fencing spade down to load bearing ground. Then you put in some stainless steel studs and cast them in place with concrete. Oakwood garden rooms a RUclips channel gives great info on this method I should point out: a concrete slab is rodent proof, a suspended floor is a potential place for rats and mice
Yeh they hide this stuff away. I have seen that foundation method and like it, there are lots of different options for foundations, it'd hard to know which is best. True about the mice, I made a vid on that actually :)
Looking forward to hearing about concrete floor insulation. My design is somewhat unconventional. My house is an end of terrace on a junction, so my front door is aligned 90° to all the other houses. The upshot is that my 'back' garden is actually my 'right' garden, and my 'front' garden is actually an arc around two sides of the property with a wall separating it from the driveway My plan is to remove the wall, and build a workshop that spans that divide, using the space currently occupied by my shed, and sacrificing part of the driveway. So that I don't adversely affect any resale value, I intend to build it as a garage with a concrete floor and a garage door on the driveway side. The walls and roof will be garden room standard, insulated etc, and then I'll install floor insulation over the concrete. The idea is, if I sell it, the insulation on the floor can be removed to make it a rather large, overspecced garage, or it can be left in place to keep it as a workshop. That also has the added benefit of having a nice big, ground level way to roll in heavy 3 phase machinery, and if I build it to regs, could also form the ground floor of a 2 story extension
It’s not 100% clear from what you’ve written, but be careful that you arnt building forward of the principle elevation - as permitted development doesn’t apply in that case. Apologies if you know that already!
Really good and informative as always. Really well explained. I would recommend anyone planning on going down the DIY concrete slab and or retaining wall route should pay close attention to the waterproofing details. If not done correctly it is very easy to have damp coming through the concrete and soaking into the timber wall or anything you are storing directly on the floor. For the average DIYer I would suggest the suspended timber floor with ventilation beneath is the easier method to get right. Also easier to correct if something goes wrong. Of course you can build a suspended floor on top of a slab or infont of retaining wall as shown in the video so still have that free air flow and don't have to worry about the concrete being perfect. A free draining gravel perimeter french drain can be a good easy way to manage surface water that looks quite smart too.
Another extremely useful video. I have an existing concrete slab which I was going to build a small brick wall to place my room on. Now i may just build straight on top, although I’ll check your coming video on floor insulation first. As usual your explanation of planning rules and buildings regs is invaluable and saves the rest of us a lot of time, thank you.
I have spent years explaining all this information to clients , usually drawing it on scrap paper. You’ve now given me a professional video of “Outstanding” quality with accurate info that does the job for me , thank you so much for making my life easier. Keep up the great work .
Thanks, another very useful video. Really love the series. I'm current weighing up concrete slab vs. piers+joists foundations. I reckon the concrete slab + PIR insulation would get me 90mm of usable internal height back. Quite a bit of extra work to dig and pour the slab, but when limited to 2.5m total height I'll happily take every possible mm height back.
As always great info, I can't find Steve Convery's build on your site, its similar to what I am going to do from the pic on this video, do you have any more info on it?
hi Ali, great video as always. I am building my garden room as per the method shown at 4:17. This was not intended to push the limits of permitted dev, it's just the way my garden is and I had to build the shed on and infant of retaining walls. I am however thinking of using this rule to swap from cold to warm roof, but have a question. The rear retaining wall extends beyond the width of the shed and the shed is pushed against the wall. I wondered if you need to build part of the wall to the side as well is the shed is in a recess?
This is great Ali, really appreciate it. I've been trying to find and reference as to whether a skylight sitting above a monopitch roof is factored into the 2.5m height for permitted development. Have you seen anything?
Great question and something I forgot to add in this video. I think I read somewhere that it is NOT included in the height but would need to confirm with some research.
For such a small slope 1:60 I would not bother. He did fix the rafters via brackets, as opposite to Americans, where they fix directly to the structures.
I was thinking when I was editing that I could have maybe explained what I would do now a bit better:
When I was thinking about my foundations and weighing up a concrete slab vs piers and joists I thought that the slab had to be above the highest ground level which would have made the whole slab so thick it would have cost far too much as concrete companies price in £ per m3.
So while I did create a retaining wall of sorts (I filled in between the block piers at the back) to hold back the earth, it never occurred to me waterproof the retaining wall and then have a concrete slab at a lower level which would have meant:
1) I could have built to a lower overall height and still had a great ceiling height (mine is about 2.4m)
2) There would be no gap at the front or sides
There were other reasons why I didn't go for concrete: clay soil, hiring a company, tree roots, problem with planning (officers didn't like that concrete would interfere with a tree with a TPO) etc.
As for the height of my building, back left ground level to top of the front fascia: 2.9m - so within my 3m planning :)
The maximum height of 2.5 meters is from the eaves which is the underside of the roof spars.
John Ramsden Not when within 2 meters of a boundary, 2.5 meters is the maximum overall height permitted. At a distance of over two meters you CAN build up to 2.5m eves height with a total height of upto four meters for a dual pitched roof, 3 meters for other roof types.
Comprehensive as always, thanks. Maybe one day I’ll get round to building mine instead of watching RUclips 🤔
A perfectly timed guide, I’ve been trying to figure out how to get as much height as I can within permitted development. It looks like a slab an retaining wall is going to be the answer.
I've since spoken to someone at the local planning office and it would seem the vagueness of the wording allows some flexibility, so the natural ground level along the hedge line of our sloped garden (right to left) can be used to take the height from without the need for a slab and retaining wall that's part of the structure as the structure will cut into that corner. It's still a very woolly thing so don't just take my word for it. Take lots of photos for evidence and keep the neighbours informed and on side was the advice I was given.
Great youtube as always. My build starts in June. Planning a insulated floating floor on a concrete ground bearing slab, so hoping you will cover this subject soon. With a view to the tight inside height, I keep changing my mind about the thickness of PIR on the floor, ranging from 50 to 100mm!!!!!!
Thinking along the same lines here too. Building upon an existing (old garage) uninsulated ( I assume) concrete pad. Details on insulating a floating floor would be most handy.
Hi Michael and Jonathan, I'll do my best to get to it soon.
If anyone wants to know, you can build upto 30 meter square without planning and that's wall to wall so for instance you could have a roof area of 36 meter square and will still be within regs, take into consideration that you cant go over 50% of your remaining land including the front garden, hope this helps 😊
That does muddle planning and building regs somewhat - building regs not required under 30m2 measured internally (provided no sleeping accommodation) and if within 2m of the boundary substatially non combustible. For Planning, permitted developmwnt has the 2.5m height limitation within 2m of boundary. Important to know the two are completely separate, don’t talk to eachother, and often is somewhat confusing!
@@JoeFoster I'm currently building a double skin brick built garden room which is approx 4x9m =36sqm. Internally the after the cavity this will take me below the 30sqm rule and building regs inpection is not required. However, you still want to build it to a good standard! Its all very confusing but the info is out there if you search. It will be within 1m of the boundary so no higher than 2.5m. You can build under PD as big as you like (up to 50% curtilage) in terms of footprint, and building regs only apply over 30msq internally.
HI, great videos Ali, thank you, I'm using all your knowledge to build my own Garden room under permitted development (under 2.5m height, less than 15m2 internal floorspace).
One piece of information I don't see covered in your videos is regarding a Garden office build on a severe slope. I'm, aware the 'building itself' can be any height at the front as long as it is 2.5m from ground level at the rear., but here is the problem - any raised platform in the front of that shed can be no bigger than 300mm!
I wonder If you or any readers here know the answer to this question please?
Q. if on a severe sloped garden (e.g. Where the front of the garden building would end up 900mm above ground level, (and the back ground level has been dropped also by 900mm with a retaining wall). can you have multiple raised steps to reach the door, as long as each step is less than 300mm?
Thank you in advance
Just wanted to add that in Scotland the height you are allowed to build within 1m of a neighbour is 2.5m but is measured from the lowest point adjacent to the garden room which is quite restricting!
Quite different to the rules in England, I also believe the maximum height is four meters
couldn’t I just dig 25 into my ground. lay hardcore then put the easypads down so that the vase of the floor is roughly just above ground? leaving enough gap for airflow around the eges
Yup!
@@AliDymock at least that way i maximise my 2.5m.
@@AliDymock I’m actually going to use c24 grade timber so I can get away with 4x2 rather than 6x2. Bit more expensive but will mean I can have more internal height
Hi, curious as to whether you did this and any pics online? I'm looking to do something similar this year
good information. the level issue was something that i was curious about
What about digging down a larger concrete base that's say 250 mm below ground level and then having the top of your floor joist being level with the outside floor level patio? Just making sure there is drainage and ventilation.
Can anyone clarify for me a point made at 6mins 30secs? It states when measuring the eaves height, you use the highest point along that wall, not any point on the building. I can only find this is the permitted development regulations. “Where ground level is not uniform (for example if the ground is sloping), then the ground level is the highest part of the surface of the ground next to the building.)”. This contradicts the video.
Hi guys, do you know if i can replace fence that i need to replace anyway with a wall that will be of my garden timber framed garage? I plan to go full width of my garden and on title both sides of fences belong to myself. Thanks!
4:30 exactly my tought, i calculated in my garden aimilar scenario, and when i take the rules into account such as not bigger than 50% of total garden and 2.5m high from the highest point in the garden, what i come up is monaterious, and if i was my neighbour i would be crazy, but aparently i dont even need planing permiasion. For. It. Bit scared how my neighbours would React but i want to build It.
Who is Steve Convery mentioned in the video and does he have a channel or build blog?
I’m building very similar summer house what joist size is recommend
At the start you say its 2.5 from the front ,then at the end you say its 2.5 from back ??
whoops sorry I nodded off
Excellent video series, Ali. If building off the retaining wall (or against it), I was wondering how you would keep the structure watertight? Would you bring the slab DPM up the inside of the wall and up behind the breathable membrane on the outside of the frame?
Is the ground level on the outer boundary count?
Ali wish i had seen this great video before i figured it out. I am building a Man shed on sloping ground and it is the same as one of your examples using the rear wall as a retaining wall and this gives me a 200 mm safety margin on my sloping roof so I am well happy I did it the right way. :-)
Well done for figuring it out!
I watched this but honestly just build it as you want, after 4 years you’re good 👍🏼
Hi, just working out my garden room dimensions - what happens after 4 years? Are you no longer able to have it taken down if say it's 3 meters and within 2 meters of the boundary?
Answered all my questions 👍
Spot on with the timing Ali. In the process of marking out where mine is going to go😀. Can I just double check with the over 2m from the boundary rule please. Is it over 2m from the closest wall of the garden room to the boundary or 2m from the edge of the overhang of the roof to the boundary? Thanks again, Leo
I understood it to be the external face of the wall.
so the 2.5 m height is from the lowest wall ??
How do I build a shed under $500?
How about building under caravan act where maximum internal ceiling height is 3 metre doesnt this allow for any roof height so long as internal room dimension is not over 3 metres re: you could peak roof at 4 metre thereby allowing for warm roof insulation above 3 metre internal I would like your comments
Yup! That is a way around all this. My neighbour (house I moved to) has a cedar cladded metal container that's probably at least 3m high right on my boundary - technically it's moveable so falls under the caravan act as do things like shepherd huts
I had this exact dilemma when building my garage. I wanted a certain height door so i could fit my van under it, but then also wanted the span of the roof to be 5m. Taking into account weight of snow and lack of spanning tables, i was fast coming to the conclusion that things were going to go above the 2.5m height limit. My solution was to do some clever things with RSJ's and mount them in a way that still gave ceiling space for a roller door but also meant thinner joists could be used for the roof. RSJ's are not cheap but i was lucky to find some down a reclaim yard. Since the build though, i noticed permitted development became more popular and thus the descriptions on the government websites became a little less vague. I'm sure i read somewhere the limit was 2.5m to the eaves. The problem i had with this was that nobody could tell me whether meant the overall height or the the underside of the eaves and therefore meant your roof thickness could be whatever it needed to be to make it strong enough. I too wondered where exactly everyone was measuring this from. A friend told me though that alot is subjective and very much decided on whether someone actually complains. So, if you find your roof is an inch or 2 higher at one end, you might get away with it if you get on with your neighbors or if your neighbors land is a little higher than yours in places or if your building backs onto another plain building such as a garage or industrial unit. At the end of the day the last thing the council want to get involved in is a petty argument between neighbors. Of course if you built something purposely higher and obscenely breaking the rules then you deserve to have questions thrown at you but a little give and take usually the best action.
Well firstly smart move with the RSJs I presume these went across the 5m span and then your timber joists ran perpendicular to them?
And yeh, it’s a very fancy shed at the end of the day. They don’t come out unless someone makes a fuss. But every council is different in regards to the rules which makes it very hard for people.
@@AliDymock hi, yes I had 2 RSJ's running parallel across the door opening and it meant the roller door could be positioned between them when rolled up. Then I I had a 3rd RSJ perpendicular to the first 2, and connected to the one set further back. Then the roof joists went perpendicular to the 3rd RSJ and 2 halves of the same length joined on top of the RSJ.
Well explained, if a little speedy.
Hi. Could you have made your building out of block or brick construction without pp ? And, the 2.5 m max height within 2 metres of a boundary, is that also if within 2 metres of the house itself ? Thanks.
Hi Ali,
Need your advice. My garden house sits on top of Paving slabs which are 10cm high from the grass level and on top of that I added concrete blocks as my foundation which gives 15cm-20cm gap under the base (due to uneven floor), i then gave the eaves height of 2.5 from the highest point of the ground to the top of the roof and then the highest point of the roof is 2.9m. It looks taller than my neighbours brick built garden house and so he has complained to the council. I need to know if I am ok and within limits? as I am thinking of dropping height from back to front out of paranoia. Thanks buddy!
In Queensland, Australia it is 2.4m height restriction without council approval. Perhaps the convicts were naturally shorter than the ones left behind.
I have very much enjoyed your garden room series. Your detailed explanation is extremely helpful 💯 I am building a 8 metres by 6 metres garage/workshop so all your info has really helped me with making certain decisions.
Thanks for this, these rules have confused me a lot! A question for you: If you are building a garden room which is 15sqm (due to it sitting on a boundary) is the sqm taken from the floor or the roof? The rules say occupied space- is this on the floor or ground? I'm wondering how much of a canopy I can build on top of the room!? Many thanks
Hi in regards to where you measure the height from. My house sits about 1m above my garden. And then the rest of the garden is all one level from there. My garden is 8m long up to the existing garage. I plan on knocking the garage down and then putting new outbuilding there. Now do i have to measure from where my outbuilding will start or can i measure from the height of where i step out of my house thanks
Timing on this video is so appropriate. I am just building one and me and my builder were both not very clear on 2.5m rule when building 2m away from fence. so to be on safer side we were going to pick the lower side of the slope. But now, we will pick up the higher side, gives me 10cm more....THANKS A LOT !!!!!!!!!!!
For a log cabin building on a steep slope.
On the upper side of the slope what if the roof of the building extends out over the retaining wall, and has support pillars that rest on the retaining wall, but the actual wall of the building doesn't touch the retaining wall at all. (It is a location for keeping firewood outside and dry under the extended roof section)
Where do you measure from and to for the max height of the building now?
(I'm hoping that it is from the top of the wall to the apex of the roof. The wall is only 50cm tall)
Hi Ali,
Hope you are well. I absolutely love your videos. Next year, I hopefully will have a garden room built. I am going to have it built within the 2 metres boundary, brick and block work and concrete slab, to maximise the ceiling height. All utilities, which will be a man cave, utility room, toilet shower and also shed/store area. I am looking to go 2.5, however I might apply for planning and go a bit higher possibly 2.8m. The things is my garden steps down, of where I was to put my garden room which will be situated at the bottom of my garden. For eg. You come out of my patio doors onto my patio, approximately 6 steps down to the grass area, and then you again step down of where I will have the garden room. The thing is I want my garden room to be level with the grass area when I open up the bifold doors and walk straight onto the grass. The drop is approximately 20vm with I will need to bring it up to level with the grass. Where would I measure the building from? And are there any opportunity for to gain more height without go for planning.
Many thanks Ric
Again, another insightful video, Ali. I've found them all to be very educational and have motivated me to start my project.
I'm dealing with building on a sloping site, so I have dug out an area where I will build and was intending to take advantage of the height measurement from the highest point of the adjacent land. I had not appreciated that once a retaining wall was in situ (which I will required) I would need to incorporate that into my building. I have spent a long time researching low cost methods of building a retaining wall and was about to place an order for Terraforce blocks. However, I'm now wondering if there is a better (low cost) approach to building a wall which I can easily incorporate into the building wall. Any advice here?
Thanks,
James
Did I miss this in another video, but the maximum height is 3m for a mono pitch roof. The eaves must be 2.5m, which begs the question what is the height of the eaves at the wall where the roof is 3m high?
A useful aside on the permitted development rules. Im currently digging holes for a block/timber foundation per your guides and have had a lot of debate with myself about insulation thicknesses and finished roof height. Have got a katherine log cabin from Tuin on its way (hopefully, once they remember to put it on the truck, they forgot for today!!) And thats 2.42m alone so 5cm ground clearance and an exageration ruler may be required for the roof insulation! I have dropped the ground height for the cabin and intend on gravel french drain style around the perimeter so unless someone comes along with a ruler i should be good.
Nice job mate
So from what I understand I can excervate and then build a retaining wall then potentially gain a extra 2 meters in hight also build with a 2 meter gap from all boundaries .4 meter with a double pitched = 6 meters tall from base to pitch also this is all within permitted development 30sqm area
That's for all the advise!
I laid my block piers two weeks ago. I was not entirely sure about this TBH. I guessed about the highest point as even a moderate slope would KO a usable room. I built my floors this weekend broadly in line with your original videos (but with thicker insulation) , so will be interested in your next vids.
Thx Ali... Well explained and I like your videos alot, keep it up, the army of DIY maters are growing :)
A LOT of trades will shoot me down instantly if I ever say “I saw how to do that on RUclips”. I’d like for them to see some of your videos as you’re absolutely spot on to the smallest of detail. I’ve asked many builders and not one of them have managed to address some of the questions around eaves height and limitations that you’ve answered in this video. I’ve recently built a garden room to a similar size to yours and have been a little bit naughty when building close to my boundary. Do you have any idea on where I could get a class zero material? I’ve built my garden room in a combustible material and haven’t managed to find any cladding that comes under the “class zero” that you mentioned in a previous video.. I’m just trying to cover the worst case scenario of a neighbour complaining or a potential insurance issue..
Thanks Steven, I don't get everything right or know everything but a bit of reading and thought goes a long way. The cladding issue is a complex one but there are two routes - a cement board or a fire retardant sealant/paint though every council and b regs private company have their own ideas as to what passes. There are more rules around this but too in depth to type out here! Go with cement board and paint it to your neighbour's preference is the safest bet!
Recently been through similar and chose to go with a class 0 treatment for the timber. It's far more cost effective and there are water based products that are easy to apply and certified. Flametect CWD+ is what I have chosen - worth a look. This way you also still get a natural timber finish (can be overcoated). But as Ali says, different councils advice will vary... But just bear in mind the number of sheds/garden rooms/summer houses which are next to boundaries and over 15m2 (many). Chances they are non combustible....
@@Murrayknott Thank you for that, it's added to my list for research. Yup! There's one down the road from me, it's not hurting anyone in my opinion.
Ali Dymock I kinda guessed on the cement board. I suppose I’m hoping for a miracle wood that is easily available and also soft on the eye. We can all dream I suppose!
Murray Knott thanks for the pointer... I’ll have a look at that one.. is it something that’ll go direct onto any cladding or does it need to be a particular thickness? Also, does it come in various colours and easy on the eye? Thanks
Hi Ali, loving your videos and great description of the work. I am at the moment building my man cave which the width will be 5 metres can you tell me how many millimetres or inches the drop should be from front to the back for rainwater into the guttering . Thanks Dass
Fantastic build Ali, really informative, on the issue of class 0 fire cladding you suggest cement board, can this be used over the osb board and breather membrane to just the boundary wall only, in order to conform to regulations. Followed by a timber lath and cladding?
Thanks for for this. You tell a good story. What graphical software do you use to demonstrate your ideas. Is it SketchUp?
I also consider rats when thinking off the level of a shed / garden room. A 5cm gap under a shed makes an excellent spot of a nest. A bit if digging and the piles of soil are touching the underside. 15cm high is far less appealing for a furry friend.
Glad you didn't cement the base with a cut out. Least amount of concrete is the best method as it's much better environmentally. We had no choice as we are building on a secondary plot over a dry creek and we are not allowed any major concrete work on that area. We used stones, sand, slabs, concrete pillars with rebar then filled the voids with cement and threaded bars protruding to fix the lower joists to.
Brilliant guide. Thanks buddy.
Ali, great series of videos on your garden room, been following since last year. During this time i have begun my outbuilding to one day work from home and also use to move our family in whilst we do the main house. Going for building control and have a great engineer on hand. Long storey short i need lots of ceiling height to work from home one day. So.. i have been digging. 1.7m down. Its quite a massive task but nearly half way. I hope to put some videos up one day. Thanks again with all the “rules detail” its been really helpful!
When is Part 17 coming up? Appreciate your content.
I’ve got 1 or 2 vids to get out first then will get on to Part 17
@@AliDymock I truly appreciate your content Ali. I really mean it. I plan to start my commercial prototype, hopefully this year, solely based on your vids. They were a tremendous help. If you are willing to offer further (paid) consultations after this series, let me know if I can reach out to you. Stay safe.
Very useful guide, thank you for adding the reference links too in the description. Maybe add UK in the title of the video too to help others searching for UK info too :)
Stumbled upon this, great information.
Hi Ali, great videos so with such detail been a massive help, I cant seem to find part 17 on tapeing the plaster board
HI Ali, unless you can find the reference you made in this video I think they have changes the rules on the height being measured from the highest adjacent land. I've just tried to find that clause and I can't.
It's certainly possible but can't find any updated guidance on where to measure from so I would expect it's the same as before - the highest adjacent land. Did you find anything?
@@AliDymock It's take me a while to get back to this but I have now found the clause you were referring to and it still exists (unless they have closed the loophole in some other way). I want to renovate my garage by adding insulation to form a warm roof over the existing room. Fortunately, the ground is sloping and we did built a retaining wall in one corner which is part of the wall there during the build so I hoping I should be ok.
I'm starting to build my own garden room and this was very helpful.
Thanks for sharing!
Great video and love the series. Am looking to start my build and am most nervous about mismeasuring space for windows and doors. Is this something you might be able to do a short vid on?
Hi Ali, For the Ground level measurement rule does this apply to Wales also?
If I wish to convert my concrete covered floor garage should I add a raised floor to encourage air via air bricks or is there a better way?
Excellent explanation - thanks for sharing 👍
Thank you Ali !! Appreciate the additional info. Every little helps !! 😁
Brilliant! Thanks. Needed to know this info.
Ali, a MASSIVE thank you for all the effort you've put into your videos so far, hugely informative! Now I just want to plan and get on with it! Right now I'm making internal changes to my house so it's one thing at a time. Keep them coming! :)
Another informative video, I'm building a 30sqm (just over 7x4 garden room which will be close to boundary fence so I know it's going to be less than 2.5m, I'm going to clad the 3 sided with box profile as nobody will ever see it, I'm thinking of doing a concrete base but struggling to find how deep it should be, if you know could you let know please. Sorry if I've missed a video you've already done ha.
Hey Neil, that sounds like a monster and a good shape too! I think 100mm (4") is the usual depth of concrete. I'm thinking of going that way for my next one so will need to put some research in to say for sure but yeh, 100mm shouldn't crack or be too thin. Of course you want to dig deeper for sub-base (hardcore/MOT stuff) then sand blinding. Feel free to send me pics or anything else you discover, I'm interested to see!
Thank you for the details
Cool vid👍great help!
interesting. Expecialy the ground level stuff.
Hi Ali. I need URGENT advice please and I would be so grateful. My garden is on a slope..the garden level goes down furtherst from the house. My builders are building an outhouse that begins (closest to the house) at 2.5m eaves height, but in order to level the building the back part of the outhouse (so towards where the slope is) the wall height from ground level to the roof is almost 2.8m. I have called Havering Planning department and they said any part of the building should be max of 2.5m from ground to the roof. I can increase the soil level to level it up byt I have a 110ft garden so that will be both expensive and a lot of effort. What do you advise? I am afraid if the inspectors come and measure the furtherest part of the building it will breach their conditions. Fortunately the roof is not up yet so I was going to tell them to reduce the back to 2.5m too but it means losing internal height space.
Your video is brilliant thank you. I forgot to add the planning "officer" stated they would check the eaves height from the LOWEST point of the ground and not the highest and that all 4 corners of the outbuilding needs to be max eave height of 2.5m. Can you confirm if indeed the planning inspector is called they only measure from the highest ground level as suppose to going round the entire building and measuring it all?
Hey, only just saw this. From what I've heard over the years, planning officers and building regs aren't always up to speed with the rules or apply them as they think best. In this case you can point them to the statutory instruments showing what the case is and they should reconsider. 2.8m isn't that high so I doubt they'll be against it. If they measured from lowest height in your case you simply couldn't build a garden room so it's not correct.
Nice one Ali, brilliant, as usual.
Quick question, for you, or anyone else that's 100% sure. If I build a garden room, and stay under planning permission (not above 2.5m height and under 30sqr mtrs externally size) could I have an additional hot-tub area, that was still part of the build (roof and back wall only, CANOPY) but would make the structure bigger. Would this be classed as needing planning permission, or with it not being an internal space (no front or side wall, open) would I get away with it?
Tough one, but need to know 👍
Your best bet would be to get planning. Or to go down that route until you find you don’t need to. That is, submit some plans, then pay for ‘pre planning advice’ (my council offer this and I assume others will have their own form) and they will guide your submission. Yes you’re paying ~£200 to submit plans and then a further ~£100 for the advice, but you would have official guidance on what they would and would not allow. I know it’s another £300 of cost, but the piece of mind could be worth that. It is the route I plan to take when rebuilding my garage which has zero chance of being PD.
Thanks Ali. In respect of the 2.5m height on sloping ground, I'm not sure that I fully agree with your interpretation of 'adjacent to' and the limitations which then follow. Adjacent is defined variously as "next to or adjoining something else", "close to or near something", "lying next to, close, or contiguous; neighbouring; bordering on". Your first compliant scheme could be described as adjoining and hence a fair interpretation. Similarly, the second could be viewed as contiguous and therefore consistent with an interpretation of 'adjacent' . However, for me, the 'next to' or 'close to' interpretations, as vague as they are, may leave other options open. I'm working on an extreme sloping site and certainly hoping this is the case. I would be keen to know of any test cases relating to this parameter. Thanks again for your inspirational series of videos!
As a postscript, I just checked the wording of "Permitted development rights for householders: Technical Guidance" para E1 (e) of which states "...measured from the highest ground level immediately adjacent to the building..." Note the addition of the word *immediately*. Accordingly, I suspect that this more recent document - September 2019 - provides the necessary clarification thus squashing my third interpretation and potentially giving me a headache!
Why don't you talk to your local planning department about this if you have any doubts about your own case? They may decide to make a site visit, but in any case the conversation will then be on file for future reference should anyone complain about your building in the future.
Excellent video series, Ali. I was wondering how you would keep the structure waterproof if building on top of (or touching) the retaining wall? Would you take the slab DPM up the inside of the retaining wall and up behind the breathable membrane on the outside of the frame?
…or perhaps build the retaining wall on the slab and bring the DPM up the outside of the wall and up behind the breathable membrane?
This has really helped, thanks!
Fantastic info - Thank you.
I wonder if you have done research on the feasibility of a Granny Annexe of the non permanent variety to avoid planning permission. Affectively the caravan rule
I just built mine without all of this. Right up to boundary on one side and about 1100mm from the other. About 2.9 m high. Built on raised , filled in, hollow blocks. Put a DPM over the damp soil and dressed the gap at the front with stacked old stocks , with a few gaps for vent. It had plent round the other three sides though. Been up ten years, no complaints.
Yeh this is rather my attitude as well, but best to know the rules to then decide how much to break them by! Or perhaps ignorance is bliss. The key is that you got no complaints, if you did and had someone from regs or the council out they could be arsey. Still you're past the 5 year rule now 👍
Another excellent video. I can see myself slow-replaying these over next couple of months now I’m finally progressing my garden gym (thanks Ali for your reply on the other video on flooring for heavy weights). Headroom is a critical factor for me as needs to be high enough for an overhead press with Olympic plates on the bar and I’m 6ft tall. I like the idea of just digging down and setting the blocks/timber base below ground level. A novice question I’m sure but is that possible or can one only go significantly below ground level if using a concrete slab and retainer walls?
Hey Chris, I’ve seen it done but ventilation to the underside of the joists is tricky. A bit of a risk basically. Makes sure it’s a dry site before going for it.
Ali, fantastic videos. I was wondering if you have quants and costs detailed out that you might be able to share? I am looking at similar dimensions but would like to have a good idea of costs for budgeting purposes. Also, based on the what you've said, I presume I can extend the canopy and decking at the front without breaking the 30m2 limit?
I don’t have a definitive answer and it will vary so much even if you have the same size garden room. I’d budget £10-20k but can be done for a lot less OR a lot more!
Yup have as a big an overhang as you like as long it doesn’t break the >50% of land around the house rule.
Videos are brilliant by the way. Quick question, my shed will be internally insulated but wasn't sure how to do the external. Do I need OSB then a vapour barrier then weatherboard? or just vapour barrier then weatherboard?
Umm, so you need a breathable membrane on the outside not a VB here in the UK. You can have OSB or go without then before your weatherboard or whatever cladding you choose you'll want battens which I'll cover in Part 20 of the main series :)
Being as it's in the householders favour I always wondered about the height measurement being from the `highest' point of sloped ground. The crazy example you showed running down the garden being permitted just makes this allowance incorrect to me (I'm not complaining btw!). I genuinely think someone from the original team of planners creating these laws cocked it up early on, it was missed and then too late to change after publication and permissions had been given! Great vid as always.
Or they were trying to be fair and give everyone a chance of building something in their garden. Imagine that crazy example the other way round... you’d have to dig out 10s of m3 of earth in order to create the building, which could end up being entirely below ground level and with maybe no way (sensible) way to get to it! That said, I would love a Colin Furze style underground bunker, but I don’t think I could afford one!
What a fantastic video, very well explained. As part of my previous job I used to do quite a few planning applications....and I discovered it's very hard to find these bits of information out - the permitted development guidance notes simply don't define the actual practical info you need.
You've missed out a useful construction method for foundations. This is building on pads - basically you dig down a series of holes using a fencing spade down to load bearing ground. Then you put in some stainless steel studs and cast them in place with concrete.
Oakwood garden rooms a RUclips channel gives great info on this method
I should point out: a concrete slab is rodent proof, a suspended floor is a potential place for rats and mice
Yeh they hide this stuff away. I have seen that foundation method and like it, there are lots of different options for foundations, it'd hard to know which is best. True about the mice, I made a vid on that actually :)
Thanks for the video Ali, very informative. Do you have a link or channel name for Neil Taylor's build video. Thanks.
It's just a photo he emailed me I'm afraid but hopefully when he's finished his build he'll send all the photos and I'll put in on the website.
Looking forward to hearing about concrete floor insulation. My design is somewhat unconventional. My house is an end of terrace on a junction, so my front door is aligned 90° to all the other houses. The upshot is that my 'back' garden is actually my 'right' garden, and my 'front' garden is actually an arc around two sides of the property with a wall separating it from the driveway
My plan is to remove the wall, and build a workshop that spans that divide, using the space currently occupied by my shed, and sacrificing part of the driveway.
So that I don't adversely affect any resale value, I intend to build it as a garage with a concrete floor and a garage door on the driveway side. The walls and roof will be garden room standard, insulated etc, and then I'll install floor insulation over the concrete.
The idea is, if I sell it, the insulation on the floor can be removed to make it a rather large, overspecced garage, or it can be left in place to keep it as a workshop.
That also has the added benefit of having a nice big, ground level way to roll in heavy 3 phase machinery, and if I build it to regs, could also form the ground floor of a 2 story extension
It’s not 100% clear from what you’ve written, but be careful that you arnt building forward of the principle elevation - as permitted development doesn’t apply in that case. Apologies if you know that already!
Really good and informative as always. Really well explained. I would recommend anyone planning on going down the DIY concrete slab and or retaining wall route should pay close attention to the waterproofing details. If not done correctly it is very easy to have damp coming through the concrete and soaking into the timber wall or anything you are storing directly on the floor. For the average DIYer I would suggest the suspended timber floor with ventilation beneath is the easier method to get right. Also easier to correct if something goes wrong. Of course you can build a suspended floor on top of a slab or infont of retaining wall as shown in the video so still have that free air flow and don't have to worry about the concrete being perfect. A free draining gravel perimeter french drain can be a good easy way to manage surface water that looks quite smart too.
Another extremely useful video. I have an existing concrete slab which I was going to build a small brick wall to place my room on. Now i may just build straight on top, although I’ll check your coming video on floor insulation first. As usual your explanation of planning rules and buildings regs is invaluable and saves the rest of us a lot of time, thank you.
Thanks John!
Thanks Ali, love this series, fantastic information on all stages. It's become my bible.
Perfectly timed for my build 👍🏻
Excellent info as usual Ali, thanks 👍😃 I'd always wondered about exactly where you measure from and to.
:D
How much did the whole build cost, Ali?
I love it, you’ve done an awesome job and inspired me to have a crack!
I'll get to that, I need to tot it all up first!
I have spent years explaining all this information to clients , usually drawing it on scrap paper. You’ve now given me a professional video of “Outstanding” quality with accurate info that does the job for me , thank you so much for making my life easier.
Keep up the great work .
That's great stuff, feel free to share it 👍
Thanks, another very useful video. Really love the series. I'm current weighing up concrete slab vs. piers+joists foundations. I reckon the concrete slab + PIR insulation would get me 90mm of usable internal height back. Quite a bit of extra work to dig and pour the slab, but when limited to 2.5m total height I'll happily take every possible mm height back.
Yeh I'd agree with that. If your ground is right for a concrete slab I lean ever so slightly towards that as the best option.
As always great info, I can't find Steve Convery's build on your site, its similar to what I am going to do from the pic on this video, do you have any more info on it?
He's only sent me a couple of pictures so far I'm afraid Jay.
hi Ali, great video as always. I am building my garden room as per the method shown at 4:17. This was not intended to push the limits of permitted dev, it's just the way my garden is and I had to build the shed on and infant of retaining walls. I am however thinking of using this rule to swap from cold to warm roof, but have a question. The rear retaining wall extends beyond the width of the shed and the shed is pushed against the wall. I wondered if you need to build part of the wall to the side as well is the shed is in a recess?
I think I'd need a diagram Paul!
This is great Ali, really appreciate it. I've been trying to find and reference as to whether a skylight sitting above a monopitch roof is factored into the 2.5m height for permitted development. Have you seen anything?
Great question and something I forgot to add in this video. I think I read somewhere that it is NOT included in the height but would need to confirm with some research.
Hi, apologies if I missed this, but what thickness of OSB did you use on the walls for the build
11mm
Ali, how come you did not cut the rafters bird beak as I have seen some amaerican videos do that? ( hoope you know what I mean)
For such a small slope 1:60 I would not bother. He did fix the rafters via brackets, as opposite to Americans, where they fix directly to the structures.
Stoyan Kolev Thanks for the response.
Nice to see you back Ali, Stay Safe Mate !!!.
Would be great to see more videos like this. Really well do :)
More to come!
Very well explained!
Fantastic thank you 🙏