I enjoyed that tutorial. You’re right. I try to shoot at f8 or f11 as much as possible for sharpness in bird photography. I recently shot a bird in flight sequence at f11 at 2000 shutter speed with my EOSR6 and it really came out great. Very sharp and got a lot of keepers out of that one sequence. It was golden hour, very bright conditions and I was shooting with my Canon 100/400 and 1.4 extender.
For everyone else, the plus side of using a wide aperture lens is because it makes it easier for the camera (and yourself in manual focus) to acquire focus, especially in low light situations.
If you are trying to separate a bird from a busy background; such as the bird is in a bush, you need wide aperture to soften everything not-bird. But you lose depth of field (the whole point of this technique). *Focus stacking* to the rescue but there's quite a bit of luck, and some skill, involved in focus stacking. Several photos in rapid succession adjusting focus. Sometimes I'll just put the camera in fast continuous and manually focus through the sharp point while shooting photos. Then combine the sharp bits together in post-processing. It helps if you are using an internal-focus lens that does not change focal length when focusing.
This is such an underrated tip, so many of us come to the conclusion that longer telephoto lenses with wider maximum aperture = better in all scenarios. While there are absolutely scenarios/situations where F/4 or F/2.8 might be great, F/8 really is one of the best "fair weather" apertures to aim for with small subjects. Not only that, but if you have a zoom lens, chances are that wide-open is not the sharpest aperture available, with F/8 usually being the sweet-spot for sharpness.
The big, expensive f2.8's and f4 lenses are specifically designed to excel at their widest apertures and can lose sharpness at f5.6, then regain it at smaller apertures. I have the Nikkor 200-500 mm f5.6 and it is remarkably sharp at its widest aperture and pretty much that's where I always use it anyway (night sports photography). It is ideal for birds and wildlife since it is extremely rare that I need f4 or f2.8 in the outdoors. It also focuses fairly close and makes great butterfly photos. Depth of field on a butterfly is about 2 millimeters so I use "focus stacking" when doing butterflies.
Great video. There was nothing that came a surprise to me but the way you put it over really reinforced the thought process. Great images too. Cheers Keith
Thank you Jan. Having watched your other videos, I have made it a habit to shoot F8-F11. I have had great success with this method. As for the fairy wren name, thinking Andy/ Anders, in reference to the William Anderson who found the first specimen of a Fairywren in 1777! Good luck with a name and keep those videos coming.
After viewing this video I will have to go to learn manual. Today I shoot wide open at f6.3 when I am using telephoto at 650mm and have camera at Tv 1/2000 and auto ISO. You are correct, bird head is super sharp but shallow depth of field can make other parts of the bird not sharp. The background has nice soft blur. I will try your advice and go manual settings, set aperture F8, set shutter speed for 2000 for birds in flight and adjust ISO to get correct exposure as seen on meter in viewfinder. Or stay with Tv priority with auto ISO and shoot wide open and buy a 1.4 convertor and that will bring my max aperture at full telephoto to f8 .
Great video Jan. I've been photographing kingfishers in the UK recently and have been grappling with this very problem. The light has often been quite challenging so I've been shooting wide open a lot of the time but I can clearly see the depth of field issue - sometimes bits of the perch are out of focus, sometimes you don't get as much feather detail as you'd like. It's back to the freezing river bank for me to do a bit more stopping down! There's a really useful app called Digital DoF - you enter your camera, focal length, aperture and shooting distance and it tells you exactly what the DOF is. As you've pointed out DOF can be tiny with big lenses and short distance! I've found the app very useful in this regard. Thanks for the video
Great tip Jan. most of the time I don't go beyond f 7.1 with my Nikkor 200-500 with Nikon D500 to keep my shutter speed decent enough for the action (I usually starts at around 1/500 S) and possibly keep my ISO as low as possible for the given situation.
Great tips. All your videos are very well done. I often shoot F4 or F5.6 for bird-in-flight. Depth of field becomes less critical as distance to the subject increases.
its not dof less critical. DOF gets bigger with distance, but smaller with focal length. A 20mm wide angle @ 1.8 has pretty big DOF @ 3m . Where a 600mm with F8 will have a DOF smaller then that 20 1,8
Tried Manual setting of F8 and 1/2000 and ISO auto, But my 5D mark II sets ISO auto to 400 in manual mode! so photos too dark. I now have two setting that work well on 5D mark II 1) For birds in flight or birds sitting on perch but moving head or changing position: wide open at F6.3 on my 650mm telephoto zoom use Tv 1/2000 and ISO auto 2) For birds sitting on perch and not moving Av F8 ISO auto. I use the histogram to make sure exposure is good and if it is too dark or too bright I can use back quick control dial to change exposure
That's always the issue with auto ISO, since it's basically an automatic mode and the camera doesn't know what you are trying to achieve. As you say that's where the histogram helps us
A very important lesson, especially when using a long lens shooting at closer distances. Shooting wide open just doesn’t get enough of the subject in focus. You also increase your chances of getting a usable shot in the case of mis focus by using a smaller aperture. Even using a 200mm from about 4 metres away the depth of the focus plain is very narrow even at about f8, so using f2.8 is a bit silly.
Noise intrudes on detail. When I shoot butterflies I face a conundrum; close range means extremely narrow depth of field, I should stop down. But stop down means slow shutter speed and butterflies seldom hold still for a shot, so that suggests high ISO. But high ISO introduces noise which is visible and can even interact conspicuously with the micro-scales on butterfly wings. So usually I keep the ISO as low as I dare, 200 to 400, shutter speed relatively low, also 200th or so, and aperture fairly wide, f5.6 or f8, and the very best images will be focus-stacked since even at f8 the depth of field is just a few millimeters when that close of range.
Hello Jan, all the way from South Africa. Your videos are fantastic and your articulate yourself so well. Even though I have been shooting birds for years, there is still so much to learn. It took me a long , long time to work this out for myself and you have managed to explain this so effectively in this video. I wish I could have seen this long ago when i started with my photography hobby. Have a great week end.
paul livingstone hey Paul, sorry I didn’t start my channel earlier 😁 it took me a while to figure out as well, but it’s quite an important topic. Glad you enjoyed the video. I always try to keep it very simple in the videos
Great video! I was not aware that the 1.4 teleconverter shortened the depth of field. I'm going to try some f/8 also, thank you! ***my first try using f8 and 1600 iso instead of wide open and auto iso today resulted in a well exposed and very sharp image of a hornet's nest on a tree branch. the background was a very light gray sky and the day was overcast. The comparatively darker nest and branch in the image are so detailed and in focus and not under exposed. i was able to walk around at dusk and take several well exposed shots without having to think about or fiddle with the settings. Using auto iso has under or over exposed my subjects often and i was having trouble iso-lating the problem! thanks again!
Forrest awesome! I’m not expert on lenses. I assume it doesn’t shorten it, but because you increase the focal length it has naturally less dof. Yes! Whenever you let the camera decide what to do, you are running the risk of getting bad results, because it has no idea what you actually want to it.
Actually there's another important reason Jan didn't mention, why you'd want to stop your lens a little (especially true for zoom lenses): most lenses have their so called sweet spot (of best uniform sharpness across the frame) 1-2 stops down from wide open, usually around f/11 at the telephoto end and around f/5.6-f/8 at the wide angle end. Take a look at this for instance: www.imaging-resource.com/lenses/canon/ef-55-200mm-f4.5-5.6-ii-usm/blur/sub-frame/
I’ve been using the 1.4x for a few years now and recently got the 2x. I use them on 70-200 f/2.8, 300 f/2.8. and 100-400 markII. All Canon. I do agree with your suggestions and I appreciate the need for stopping down to improve IQ but for DoF it would depend on your distance from the subject. If you are ‘far’ enough maybe DoF is less of an issue at f/5.6 or 6.4.
@@jan_wegener Indeed for small birds this is a problem. My most successful / i.e. with reasonable DoF photos of small birds (e.g. masked weavers) were at f/8. At f/5.6 and below esp. if there are 2 small birds DoF is not enough at a reasonable distance that does not require heavy cropping. I can confirm that even for birds the size of seagulls in flight and thus shot from a somewhat reasonable distance anywhere between 70 and 125mm f/5.6 and below on a crop-sensor doesn't provide sufficient DoF. When I made my comment I had in mind slightly larger birds (e.g. Marabou/stork size and above) and non-bird wildlife (e.g. mongoose size and above). In general situations in which you cannot approach closer anyway and thus pushing the f/ to 8 and above for the sake of DoF seems like an overkill; esp. if you have to pay for it with high ISO and/or slower shutter speeds. However, even with slightly larger animals (e.g. mongoose, vervet moneys, hyenas) when you have 2-3 animals close to one another in your frame and even from a reasonable distance DoF can be an issue (even at f/5.6). Then you have to decide what you are willing to sacrifice :-)) I did fit a family of hyenas at 120mm on a crop sensor with reasonable DoF at f/4.5; whereas a family of mongoose at 400mm f/5.6 on the same crop-sensor has no DoF besides my 'main character'. So focal length/distance and size of animal are key considerations. I still have not yet mastered the precise ratios. Part of it is due to the fact that I shoot at least 3 lenses combined with 2 kinds of extenders and in crop and FF bodies as well as species of highly diverse sizes. So I have to go by my gut feeling as often external factors (e.g. available light, how quickly the subject may disappear from sight) usually drive my decision making, instead of the optimal DoF; which of course I only realise at the end of the day when I evaluate my results on a larger screen and I wish I had more DoF :-)) Tnx for sharing your lights. It would be nice to have some kind of rule of thumb to go by when out in the field; e.g. up to 200mm f/5.6, 400 f/6.3, 600 f/8. And for crop-sensors this will need to increase. I'm not saying this is correct but if you could do a video along these lines or have some advice I would be keen to hear it.
@@dimitristsagdis7340 the longer your lens, the less DOF. At 120mm and a decent distance, your DOF, is like a few meters. My rule is F8 and above and it seems to work well. That's for 500mm plus. Basically, the rule is, the more focal length, the more stopping down will help. However, you don't wanna go too far, because the sharpness of the lenses will decrease.
I watch several YT photographer's "tips" and not one talked about aperture as you have. I am going to try this myself. I shoot the old reliable Canon EF 100-400mm Mk 2 zoom on my equally venerable Canon 7D Mk 2 camera.
I was just going through some of my bird images, and I see I'm often at F6.3, so I need to bump it up for sure! Thanks for the video....much appreciated!
Sometimes you just need someone to point out what you already know. I have a Canon 500/4 and shoot wide open all the time, often with a 1.4x TC too. I need to get a better beamer too, to substitute for the lack of light here in UK, which is primarily the reason for shooting wide open. I need to update my body also, an original 7D it's soooooooooo noisy ☹ Great video.
Very useful info. Question ; is it helpful to get the bird's attention by making little sounds (as in 8:32)? I would love to see a video on that. Thank you,
This is a wild concept, Jan. I never considered this, but it makes so much sense especially for birds. I've been watching your videos a ton and this will change my photography for sure! I also just ordered an R5 and a 100-500 based on your recs. Sold my 5DM3 and 100-400IS2 :)
Just discovered your channel and subscribed. I have been taking indoor hockey pics for a long time (very unique challenges in itself) but was already doing a lot of the things you recommend for birds photography like back button focus and the like but once COVID hit, all my sports photography dried up so I needed to fill the void. I turned to taking photos of birds not thinking much of it at first but, I must say, the bug has bitten and bitten deep! I can’t get enough! I’ve managed to capture several photographs that are presentable but my throwaway rate is quite high. I’ve watch so many of your videos and they’re all so helpful. I truly appreciate it. I just recently purchased a 100-400mm L lens so I’ve been playing. Was always pushing for wide open but after seeing this I’ll be headed out tomorrow to experiment. Appreciate your videos brother! Thanks a ton from 🇨🇦
I'm quite relieved to know this from a master photographer like you. Currently I am using 150-600 tamron lens on d800 body. Buying f4 lens is out of my reach. I normally shoot at f 7.1 and definitely try your technique. Thanks a lot
I’d pay for this stuff. Jan your material is so good. Best on RUclips. You thought of taking students on field trips? Thank you for sharing Champ’. PS planning to do your editing course.
Good to hear, I try to put out some good content. Cheers! I do from time to time. If you like the YT content, you will love the other stuff even more :)
Short and very clear explanation, bravo !!! Can you do a video on which autofocus settings your use ? My point is that usually when I want a precise focus, by example on the eyes, I prefer to get only one autofocus point. But 2 minutes afterwards, I try to capture a flying bird, where 9 or more autofocus points is much quicker. So I have always to jump from the first set-up to the second setup, which make me lose images. What do you think Yan ? Regards (gear: 7dmii and 500mm ii)
scherzomio thanks! That’s a good idea. I will put it on my list of topics. I think I usually use one point with the surrounding points activated for help
scherzomio, with the 7D Mark ii, you can set up two back focus buttons - e.g. AF-ON button for single-point AF and * button for AF point expansion or zone AF. Then, you only have to move your thumb 1cm. to change the set-up. Jan, keep up the good work!
PipPipHooray it would, but I think it’s the most noticeable with smaller animals because you are much closer. A big moose 200m away will still be sharp because of the distance
A closeup examination of the images would show why not to shoot at f16 at ISO 3200 or higher: Noise! Cameras vary widely in susceptibility to noise. Full frame sensors almost always have considerably less noise for any particular ISO as compared to APS-C or smaller sensors (cellphone!). But even at full frame considerable variation exists; my Nikon D850 sensor seems to have only about half the noise as my D800; which means I can shoot at twice the ISO and still have acceptable quality. Where it matters is of course the size of the finished product. On a web page we see no difference at all up to ISO 1600; but it will show up if you print large or crop tight.
Lovely video Jan! This will help us to come out of the myth to use wide open when shooting wildlife to gain over shutter speed and bokehlicious background. But then we compromise on the main bird itself to get it in reasonable depth of field. Thanks for this video. Will be helpful if you can do a video on use of flash in bird photography.
Thanks Jan, hope those bush fires don't upset your birding to much? I can see f4 with single birds if needed and f8-f11 for multiple if needed, all the best from the Bahamas! Cheers.
What about diffraction at f/11? Cameras with high MP tend to hit diffraction earlier than lower mp cameras. Myself, if I shoot wide-open depends on the background, lens and subject. If I have a busy background, then I'll shoot wide-open in order to blur the area behind the bird, unless the bird is of sufficient distance away from the background.
64BBernard yes, it’s always a compromise. You don’t wanna stop down too far, but need sufficient dof for certain birds etc. you’re also right that there’s not one formula that always works, but thinking about what you’re doing and adapting to the circumstances is best
Jan, I love your videos..you explain everything so simply ..I've been shooting at f8 and my pictures are coming out awesome..thank you!! Just adore you beautiful work..
This video was a major help 🤗. I only have a 300mm lens atm so birds tend to be a bit pixelly or just out of focus when they are far away 😔 but shooting at f11 seems to be alot better at keeping more focus
Would the flash really be that beneficial at the distance your perch example was set up? I’d be interested to see examples with and without flash. Max min Distance etc. how to adjust flash after ambient exposure etc
Whichever one I want sharp. In those case you can also focus on each bird and then merge them together later to get them all sharp. Or have a perch that set up parallel to your sensor and then they will be all sharp
New sub, show us how you build that backdrop... I need one, since i cant go out for shooting. Just purchase by first 200-500 Nikon for sports and wildlife photography. Great advise, purchase this lens to use with my crop/DX camera, so I do not need to use an extender, but might pick up the 1.4 and shoot at F8 as you indicated.
I assume you watched this video? And refer to the cloth background? It's a stretchy fabric and I just painted it with spray paint ruclips.net/video/P8eHbkjxYGo/видео.html
Juan- F8 is the lowest you can go once you add the 1.4xTC on the Nikkor 200-500 lens. I have it on a D500 and find F8 (default) is not sharp enough. F10 works with that combination when shooting Birds in flight. The 1.4XTC "WILL" make your images less sharp (soft) than shooting with just the 200-500 Nikkor, no way around that. I find that the 1.4XTC provides better reach without loss of quality when recording video though. Also, I had to fine tune the lens + 1.4XTC combo. It will not focus on subject out of the box. Mine was back focusing a lot. Had to adjust to +18 on myD500. Hope that helps.
I had plans to buy the Sony 200-600 f5.6-6.3. I already have a 2.0 extender. This video start me thinking. Do I buy that lens and switch the extender to a 1.4. Or keep the 2.0 extender and buy a 100-400 f4.5-5.6? This lens is 800 euros more expensive. What do you advise me? Thx.
Digiloog I haven’t used either lens so take it with a grain of salt. But I would always opt for the lens that gives you more native range. Relying exclusive on extenders is not the best idea, because they limit more what your gear can do. So I’d opt for a lens that can give me 600mm without using any extenders
Hi Jan, from the gloomy UK. I follow your outstanding tutorials, they are simply the best. One I eagerly await is the one using flash, is this tutorial still in the pipeline. Best Regards Tom
@@jan_wegener Fair point! I think my biggest problem is getting close enough to small birds to fill the frame where f8 would be best, but that is a whole different problem!
Jan Wegener really interesting. I’ve always shot my small birds wide open at f4 with my 600mm. I think with the 800mm, the compression is more pronounced to need f8-f11. I need to experiment for myself, but I wonder if f 8 is still preferred for a 600mm? Also, do you usually shoot at the flash sync speed or at a higher speed (high speed sync). On my 1DX the sync speed is 1/250 and I do get sharp results with the better Beamer, but not all the time because of subject movement. Do you tend to go higher on your shutter speed than I do? Thanks for your thoughts.
I enjoyed that tutorial. You’re right. I try to shoot at f8 or f11 as much as possible for sharpness in bird photography. I recently shot a bird in flight sequence at f11 at 2000 shutter speed with my EOSR6 and it really came out great. Very sharp and got a lot of keepers out of that one sequence. It was golden hour, very bright conditions and I was shooting with my Canon 100/400 and 1.4 extender.
awesome!
Clear, concise, and right to the point. That’s why I’m here.
great to hear, thanks
"Photography is about compromise" is awesome advice. Thanks for the wonderful free content.
My pleasure! :)
This simple tip has improved my photos instantly! Thank you.
Jane Keehn fantastic!!
For everyone else, the plus side of using a wide aperture lens is because it makes it easier for the camera (and yourself in manual focus) to acquire focus, especially in low light situations.
Thanks Jan - very useful. And your bird photos & videos you included are superb.
Many thanks! Glad you liked it
If you are trying to separate a bird from a busy background; such as the bird is in a bush, you need wide aperture to soften everything not-bird. But you lose depth of field (the whole point of this technique). *Focus stacking* to the rescue but there's quite a bit of luck, and some skill, involved in focus stacking. Several photos in rapid succession adjusting focus. Sometimes I'll just put the camera in fast continuous and manually focus through the sharp point while shooting photos. Then combine the sharp bits together in post-processing. It helps if you are using an internal-focus lens that does not change focal length when focusing.
Thomas Maughan with a moving bird, that’s quite the challenge, but if they sit still, I’ve sometimes done that, too
Thanks so much for this! I’m one of those who always shoots F4 and is often disappointed by the results! I’ll try your approach this weekend!!!
Kristin Ellington great! There’s certainly situations where F4 is great, but most of the time I think stopping down is better suited
This is such an underrated tip, so many of us come to the conclusion that longer telephoto lenses with wider maximum aperture = better in all scenarios. While there are absolutely scenarios/situations where F/4 or F/2.8 might be great, F/8 really is one of the best "fair weather" apertures to aim for with small subjects. Not only that, but if you have a zoom lens, chances are that wide-open is not the sharpest aperture available, with F/8 usually being the sweet-spot for sharpness.
b.lew_photography that’s exactly right!
The big, expensive f2.8's and f4 lenses are specifically designed to excel at their widest apertures and can lose sharpness at f5.6, then regain it at smaller apertures. I have the Nikkor 200-500 mm f5.6 and it is remarkably sharp at its widest aperture and pretty much that's where I always use it anyway (night sports photography). It is ideal for birds and wildlife since it is extremely rare that I need f4 or f2.8 in the outdoors. It also focuses fairly close and makes great butterfly photos. Depth of field on a butterfly is about 2 millimeters so I use "focus stacking" when doing butterflies.
Great video. There was nothing that came a surprise to me but the way you put it over really reinforced the thought process. Great images too. Cheers Keith
KG's Photography thanks mate 😊
Thank you Jan. Having watched your other videos, I have made it a habit to shoot F8-F11. I have had great success with this method. As for the fairy wren name, thinking Andy/ Anders, in reference to the William Anderson who found the first specimen of a Fairywren in 1777! Good luck with a name and keep those videos coming.
Debbie King that’s awesome Debbie! It’s great to hear you having success using this. It really helps
Thanks for the name suggestion!
I know why I shoot at F4 most of the time. I live in the the north east of England where we see the sun 3 times a year!
I almost never shoot in sunlight. Clouds make for some fantastic images
After viewing this video I will have to go to learn manual. Today I shoot wide open at f6.3 when I am using telephoto at 650mm and have camera at Tv 1/2000 and auto ISO. You are correct, bird head is super sharp but shallow depth of field can make other parts of the bird not sharp. The background has nice soft blur. I will try your advice and go manual settings, set aperture F8, set shutter speed for 2000 for birds in flight and adjust ISO to get correct exposure as seen on meter in viewfinder. Or stay with Tv priority with auto ISO and shoot wide open and buy a 1.4 convertor and that will bring my max aperture at full telephoto to f8 .
You can use manual with auto ISo, too. that might help you to transition.
Thanks Jan, I will try manual and have auto ISO set. I think this is a great solution. When I use Tv or Av I always use auto ISO
Great video Jan. I've been photographing kingfishers in the UK recently and have been grappling with this very problem. The light has often been quite challenging so I've been shooting wide open a lot of the time but I can clearly see the depth of field issue - sometimes bits of the perch are out of focus, sometimes you don't get as much feather detail as you'd like. It's back to the freezing river bank for me to do a bit more stopping down! There's a really useful app called Digital DoF - you enter your camera, focal length, aperture and shooting distance and it tells you exactly what the DOF is. As you've pointed out DOF can be tiny with big lenses and short distance! I've found the app very useful in this regard. Thanks for the video
that's interesting. I will check it out
Great tip Jan. most of the time I don't go beyond f 7.1 with my Nikkor 200-500 with Nikon D500 to keep my shutter speed decent enough for the action (I usually starts at around 1/500 S) and possibly keep my ISO as low as possible for the given situation.
great! glad you liked this video!
I totally agree
Brilliantly explained .... thanks a lot
Glad you liked it
Wow this was exactly how I needed it explained!!! 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
Great!
Nice one Jan, great vlog as always 😉😊👍
Thank you! 😀
You improve my photography. Thank you very much!
My pleasure 😊
Great video Jan!
phooesnax thank you!
Very nice tip, thanks u are doing amazing job
So nice of you. Thanks :)
Great tips. All your videos are very well done.
I often shoot F4 or F5.6 for bird-in-flight. Depth of field becomes less critical as distance to the subject increases.
Yes, for BIF you don't need to stop down so much.
its not dof less critical. DOF gets bigger with distance, but smaller with focal length. A 20mm wide angle @ 1.8 has pretty big DOF @ 3m . Where a 600mm with F8 will have a DOF smaller then that 20 1,8
I'd recommend playing around with Photopills DoF calculator, for example it gives a 500mm f4 at 10m a DoF of just 9cm, F8 18cm and f11 26cm.
If It Moves thanks, that’s good to know! And shows how dramatic the difference is
Makes the RF 800 f11 even more appealing
in that regard it will do well for sure!
Excellent advice for a novice bird photographer, and the sample images are very helpful. I will be sharing the link to this video.
Awesome, thank you! Great to hear it was helpful
great info and a sage cure for my wide-open fixation 👍👍👍
Karl great 👍 😊
Thanks! This is just the advice I needed.
Glad it was helpful!
Tried Manual setting of F8 and 1/2000 and ISO auto, But my 5D mark II sets ISO auto to 400 in manual mode! so photos too dark. I now have two setting that work well on 5D mark II 1) For birds in flight or birds sitting on perch but moving head or changing position: wide open at F6.3 on my 650mm telephoto zoom use Tv 1/2000 and ISO auto 2) For birds sitting on perch and not moving Av F8 ISO auto. I use the histogram to make sure exposure is good and if it is too dark or too bright I can use back quick control dial to change exposure
That's always the issue with auto ISO, since it's basically an automatic mode and the camera doesn't know what you are trying to achieve. As you say that's where the histogram helps us
A very important lesson, especially when using a long lens shooting at closer distances. Shooting wide open just doesn’t get enough of the subject in focus. You also increase your chances of getting a usable shot in the case of mis focus by using a smaller aperture. Even using a 200mm from about 4 metres away the depth of the focus plain is very narrow even at about f8, so using f2.8 is a bit silly.
LAZY DOG exactly my point. Glad you liked it
Noise intrudes on detail. When I shoot butterflies I face a conundrum; close range means extremely narrow depth of field, I should stop down. But stop down means slow shutter speed and butterflies seldom hold still for a shot, so that suggests high ISO. But high ISO introduces noise which is visible and can even interact conspicuously with the micro-scales on butterfly wings. So usually I keep the ISO as low as I dare, 200 to 400, shutter speed relatively low, also 200th or so, and aperture fairly wide, f5.6 or f8, and the very best images will be focus-stacked since even at f8 the depth of field is just a few millimeters when that close of range.
Hello Jan, all the way from South Africa. Your videos are fantastic and your articulate yourself so well. Even though I have been shooting birds for years, there is still so much to learn. It took me a long , long time to work this out for myself and you have managed to explain this so effectively in this video. I wish I could have seen this long ago when i started with my photography hobby. Have a great week end.
paul livingstone hey Paul, sorry I didn’t start my channel earlier 😁 it took me a while to figure out as well, but it’s quite an important topic. Glad you enjoyed the video. I always try to keep it very simple in the videos
Thank you sir for teaching 'F'
glad you enjoyed it
Thank you very much for the useful tips 👍👍
My pleasure 😊
Many Thanks for sharing with us all your advices.
Laurent Dieu you’re welcome 😊
Great video Jan, loads of good info.
Frameztog thank you 😊
🐦Bobby🐦 that's my vote 4 the name poll. Loved all this footage and definitely going to be rewatching to enjoy these great birds
Bimm BeckBimm awesome! Thank you!
You are teaching me so many new things !!! Thank you ..
You are so welcome!
Great video! I was not aware that the 1.4 teleconverter shortened the depth of field. I'm going to try some f/8 also, thank you! ***my first try using f8 and 1600 iso instead of wide open and auto iso today resulted in a well exposed and very sharp image of a hornet's nest on a tree branch. the background was a very light gray sky and the day was overcast. The comparatively darker nest and branch in the image are so detailed and in focus and not under exposed. i was able to walk around at dusk and take several well exposed shots without having to think about or fiddle with the settings. Using auto iso has under or over exposed my subjects often and i was having trouble iso-lating the problem! thanks again!
Forrest awesome! I’m not expert on lenses. I assume it doesn’t shorten it, but because you increase the focal length it has naturally less dof. Yes! Whenever you let the camera decide what to do, you are running the risk of getting bad results, because it has no idea what you actually want to it.
DoF is inversely related to focal length so as the teleconverter increases focal length, DoF decreases.
Jan, your videos are so, so very helpful! Thank you for producing your work.
Thanks Alan, it's great to hear they're helpful, much appreciated
Actually there's another important reason Jan didn't mention, why you'd want to stop your lens a little (especially true for zoom lenses): most lenses have their so called sweet spot (of best uniform sharpness across the frame) 1-2 stops down from wide open, usually around f/11 at the telephoto end and around f/5.6-f/8 at the wide angle end. Take a look at this for instance: www.imaging-resource.com/lenses/canon/ef-55-200mm-f4.5-5.6-ii-usm/blur/sub-frame/
Good point
I’ve been using the 1.4x for a few years now and recently got the 2x. I use them on 70-200 f/2.8, 300 f/2.8. and 100-400 markII. All Canon. I do agree with your suggestions and I appreciate the need for stopping down to improve IQ but for DoF it would depend on your distance from the subject. If you are ‘far’ enough maybe DoF is less of an issue at f/5.6 or 6.4.
Dimitris Tsagdis that is correct. But then a small bird will be much too small in your frame
@@jan_wegener Indeed for small birds this is a problem. My most successful / i.e. with reasonable DoF photos of small birds (e.g. masked weavers) were at f/8.
At f/5.6 and below esp. if there are 2 small birds DoF is not enough at a reasonable distance that does not require heavy cropping. I can confirm that even for birds the size of seagulls in flight and thus shot from a somewhat reasonable distance anywhere between 70 and 125mm f/5.6 and below on a crop-sensor doesn't provide sufficient DoF.
When I made my comment I had in mind slightly larger birds (e.g. Marabou/stork size and above) and non-bird wildlife (e.g. mongoose size and above). In general situations in which you cannot approach closer anyway and thus pushing the f/ to 8 and above for the sake of DoF seems like an overkill; esp. if you have to pay for it with high ISO and/or slower shutter speeds. However, even with slightly larger animals (e.g. mongoose, vervet moneys, hyenas) when you have 2-3 animals close to one another in your frame and even from a reasonable distance DoF can be an issue (even at f/5.6). Then you have to decide what you are willing to sacrifice :-)) I did fit a family of hyenas at 120mm on a crop sensor with reasonable DoF at f/4.5; whereas a family of mongoose at 400mm f/5.6 on the same crop-sensor has no DoF besides my 'main character'. So focal length/distance and size of animal are key considerations. I still have not yet mastered the precise ratios. Part of it is due to the fact that I shoot at least 3 lenses combined with 2 kinds of extenders and in crop and FF bodies as well as species of highly diverse sizes. So I have to go by my gut feeling as often external factors (e.g. available light, how quickly the subject may disappear from sight) usually drive my decision making, instead of the optimal DoF; which of course I only realise at the end of the day when I evaluate my results on a larger screen and I wish I had more DoF :-)) Tnx for sharing your lights. It would be nice to have some kind of rule of thumb to go by when out in the field; e.g. up to 200mm f/5.6, 400 f/6.3, 600 f/8. And for crop-sensors this will need to increase. I'm not saying this is correct but if you could do a video along these lines or have some advice I would be keen to hear it.
@@dimitristsagdis7340 the longer your lens, the less DOF. At 120mm and a decent distance, your DOF, is like a few meters. My rule is F8 and above and it seems to work well. That's for 500mm plus. Basically, the rule is, the more focal length, the more stopping down will help. However, you don't wanna go too far, because the sharpness of the lenses will decrease.
Jan Wegener tnx I will keep this in mind for above 500mm. Now, I have to figure out what happens below :-))
I wish I had watched this video years ago - thanks so much!
Janice Coulter Better late than never 👍
Awesome advice!! I’ve been disappointed continuously with a too shallow depth of field by chasing 100 iso + fast shutter speeds.
Glad it was helpful!
You told so many secrets no other photographers will tell. Thanks a lot love from India ❤️🇮🇳
My pleasure!
I watch several YT photographer's "tips" and not one talked about aperture as you have. I am going to try this myself. I shoot the old reliable Canon EF 100-400mm Mk 2 zoom on my equally venerable Canon 7D Mk 2 camera.
I like to talk about things that actually matter in the field :) Nice set up you got!
Just found your video, excellent explanation and use of examples
Gary Dietz glad you did. Thanks 😊
I was just going through some of my bird images, and I see I'm often at F6.3, so I need to bump it up for sure! Thanks for the video....much appreciated!
Awesome Dale. Yes, more DOF can certainly help
Likewise Dale, Thank you and thanks as ever to Jan.
Great as usual... thanks very much dear Jan
Antonio Antonucci thanks for watching, glad you enjoyed it
excellent explanation Jan
Sen Seo thanks man!
Sometimes you just need someone to point out what you already know. I have a Canon 500/4 and shoot wide open all the time, often with a 1.4x TC too.
I need to get a better beamer too, to substitute for the lack of light here in UK, which is primarily the reason for shooting wide open.
I need to update my body also, an original 7D it's soooooooooo noisy ☹
Great video.
Glad I could give you some ideas. I love overcast and clouds, which you should have plenty of 😁
@@jan_wegener Overcast in UK is a gloomy overcast, not like Aussie overcast, believe me!
a good reminder.
good info
Russell McCollom thanks 🙏
Very useful info. Question ; is it helpful to get the bird's attention by making little sounds (as in 8:32)? I would love to see a video on that. Thank you,
It helps me at times. That's a good idea actually :)
This is a wild concept, Jan. I never considered this, but it makes so much sense especially for birds. I've been watching your videos a ton and this will change my photography for sure! I also just ordered an R5 and a 100-500 based on your recs. Sold my 5DM3 and 100-400IS2 :)
Congrats!
Thanks Jan, your videos are well appreciated!
Thanks4AllTheFish great. Thanks 😊
Great video thanks. I didn't realize that extenders reduce depth of field.
New bird assistant name
Fairy wren => Fren
thethreeislands thanks! I’ll put it on the list.
Great tips Jan, and magnificent image of the pair of Regent Honeyeaters!
Thanks mate
Just discovered your channel and subscribed. I have been taking indoor hockey pics for a long time (very unique challenges in itself) but was already doing a lot of the things you recommend for birds photography like back button focus and the like but once COVID hit, all my sports photography dried up so I needed to fill the void. I turned to taking photos of birds not thinking much of it at first but, I must say, the bug has bitten and bitten deep! I can’t get enough! I’ve managed to capture several photographs that are presentable but my throwaway rate is quite high. I’ve watch so many of your videos and they’re all so helpful. I truly appreciate it. I just recently purchased a 100-400mm L lens so I’ve been playing. Was always pushing for wide open but after seeing this I’ll be headed out tomorrow to experiment.
Appreciate your videos brother! Thanks a ton from 🇨🇦
Awesome, thanks! Let me know how you go. Cheers
I'm quite relieved to know this from a master photographer like you. Currently I am using 150-600 tamron lens on d800 body. Buying f4 lens is out of my reach. I normally shoot at f 7.1 and definitely try your technique. Thanks a lot
Gopal Barkur glad you found this video useful
Thank you for the video, very helpful information
Viet you’re welcome 😊
I’d pay for this stuff. Jan your material is so good. Best on RUclips. You thought of taking students on field trips? Thank you for sharing Champ’. PS planning to do your editing course.
Good to hear, I try to put out some good content. Cheers! I do from time to time. If you like the YT content, you will love the other stuff even more :)
Awesome video thank you
Thanks :)
Thank you very much for free ebook...💝💝💝💝💝💝😍😍😍😍
Bakchi Photography you’re welcome
Hi Jan thank you so much for your intuitive videos this one was an eye opener for a beginner like me.
Clive Welch that’s awesome to hear! I love showing people how to improve their photography
Short and very clear explanation, bravo !!! Can you do a video on which autofocus settings your use ? My point is that usually when I want a precise focus, by example on the eyes, I prefer to get only one autofocus point. But 2 minutes afterwards, I try to capture a flying bird, where 9 or more autofocus points is much quicker. So I have always to jump from the first set-up to the second setup, which make me lose images. What do you think Yan ? Regards (gear: 7dmii and 500mm ii)
scherzomio thanks! That’s a good idea. I will put it on my list of topics. I think I usually use one point with the surrounding points activated for help
scherzomio, with the 7D Mark ii, you can set up two back focus buttons - e.g. AF-ON button for single-point AF and * button for AF point expansion or zone AF. Then, you only have to move your thumb 1cm. to change the set-up. Jan, keep up the good work!
Chris Lake thanks! That’s a good point.
@@chrislake8879 thank you Chris
Great info! I think this can apply to a lot of wildlife photography.
PipPipHooray it would, but I think it’s the most noticeable with smaller animals because you are much closer. A big moose 200m away will still be sharp because of the distance
G8 video, must try out what u said.... I always use 2.8 on my 400mm f2.8L is iii usm lens, thanks for educate us. 👏👏
thanks for your comment. 2.8 will give you only very narrow DOF up close
A closeup examination of the images would show why not to shoot at f16 at ISO 3200 or higher: Noise! Cameras vary widely in susceptibility to noise. Full frame sensors almost always have considerably less noise for any particular ISO as compared to APS-C or smaller sensors (cellphone!). But even at full frame considerable variation exists; my Nikon D850 sensor seems to have only about half the noise as my D800; which means I can shoot at twice the ISO and still have acceptable quality. Where it matters is of course the size of the finished product. On a web page we see no difference at all up to ISO 1600; but it will show up if you print large or crop tight.
Thomas Maughan that’s right
Lovely video Jan! This will help us to come out of the myth to use wide open when shooting wildlife to gain over shutter speed and bokehlicious background. But then we compromise on the main bird itself to get it in reasonable depth of field.
Thanks for this video. Will be helpful if you can do a video on use of flash in bird photography.
Sarajit Sil that will be my next video coming this week hopefully! Glad you enjoyed this video 😊
Thanks Jan, hope those bush fires don't upset your birding to much? I can see f4 with single birds if needed and f8-f11 for multiple if needed, all the best from the Bahamas! Cheers.
Peter Kemp the fires are all much further north, so doesn’t impact me directly, but it’s a terrible situation. Glad you liked the video!
helped me so much
T-Biscuit69 T-Biscuit69 great 😊
Great video and reasoning, Jan. Definitely something to try out
Craig B awesome! Thanks for watching
Thank you for the advice, really helpful! I'll try f8 today!
Laura Palmer great 😊👍
What about diffraction at f/11? Cameras with high MP tend to hit diffraction earlier than lower mp cameras. Myself, if I shoot wide-open depends on the background, lens and subject. If I have a busy background, then I'll shoot wide-open in order to blur the area behind the bird, unless the bird is of sufficient distance away from the background.
64BBernard yes, it’s always a compromise. You don’t wanna stop down too far, but need sufficient dof for certain birds etc. you’re also right that there’s not one formula that always works, but thinking about what you’re doing and adapting to the circumstances is best
This is great information. Thanks so much.
Keith Dickson glad you found it helpful Keith
A very interesting video. Such wonderful tips. Thanks Jan. I think the wren should be called Albert.
thanks! I will put it on the list
Thanks for that going to give it a try.
Jason fraser awesome Jason
Jan, I love your videos..you explain everything so simply ..I've been shooting at f8 and my pictures are coming out awesome..thank you!! Just adore you beautiful work..
Thanks Michael, great to hear!
Really enjoyed this...& learnt something too!
Marcella Riggs that’s great to hear, thanks 😊
This video was a major help 🤗. I only have a 300mm lens atm so birds tend to be a bit pixelly or just out of focus when they are far away 😔 but shooting at f11 seems to be alot better at keeping more focus
awesome!
Great advice thank you 😍🐥
Nailpolish007 glad you enjoyed it
Thanks so much for this .. it was great information at a good time for me to learn it
David Sigafoos fantastic! Always happy to help
Would the flash really be that beneficial at the distance your perch example was set up? I’d be interested to see examples with and without flash. Max min Distance etc. how to adjust flash after ambient exposure etc
JR Navickas that will be my next video 😊 Distance up to 20 with an extender works well
Good tips, I shoot a lot of birds .
Jerry Morgan great!
Love your work wish I could
Get sharp
Thank you, I am sure you can
4.31 crow photobomb! anyway, great video, matey!
Karl Alexander haha yes! He was pretty casual
@@jan_wegener are you a bird whisperer of some kind? 80% of my birding trip turns out to be a camping trip with a lot of heavy gears
@@sylcar78 I think I am :D
Well explained, thanks...
pennhillman thank you 😊
Sehr gut, dankeschön.
Thanks for the video; enjoyed it and made sense :)
Beth Mack great
@Jan Wegener Just found your Channel, very informative! Looking forward to more, keep up the good work! 😃
thanks man. Lots more to come
Fantastic again, thank you Sir.
Very welcome
Which bird are you focusing on or where are you focusing when you have more than one bird in the frame?
Thanks for fantastic information
Whichever one I want sharp. In those case you can also focus on each bird and then merge them together later to get them all sharp. Or have a perch that set up parallel to your sensor and then they will be all sharp
New sub, show us how you build that backdrop... I need one, since i cant go out for shooting. Just purchase by first 200-500 Nikon for sports and wildlife photography. Great advise, purchase this lens to use with my crop/DX camera, so I do not need to use an extender, but might pick up the 1.4 and shoot at F8 as you indicated.
I assume you watched this video? And refer to the cloth background? It's a stretchy fabric and I just painted it with spray paint
ruclips.net/video/P8eHbkjxYGo/видео.html
Juan- F8 is the lowest you can go once you add the 1.4xTC on the Nikkor 200-500 lens.
I have it on a D500 and find F8 (default) is not sharp enough. F10 works with that combination when shooting Birds in flight.
The 1.4XTC "WILL" make your images less sharp (soft) than shooting with just the 200-500 Nikkor, no way around that. I find that the 1.4XTC provides better reach without loss of quality when recording video though.
Also,
I had to fine tune the lens + 1.4XTC combo. It will not focus on subject out of the box. Mine was back focusing a lot. Had to adjust to +18 on myD500.
Hope that helps.
@@nomisnomis1188 thanks, I will be shotting with my DX camera instead of the FF, will have to apply denoice.
I had plans to buy the Sony 200-600 f5.6-6.3. I already have a 2.0 extender. This video start me thinking. Do I buy that lens and switch the extender to a 1.4. Or keep the 2.0 extender and buy a 100-400 f4.5-5.6? This lens is 800 euros more expensive. What do you advise me? Thx.
Digiloog I haven’t used either lens so take it with a grain of salt. But I would always opt for the lens that gives you more native range. Relying exclusive on extenders is not the best idea, because they limit more what your gear can do. So I’d opt for a lens that can give me 600mm without using any extenders
Jan Wegener Thanks for your kind answer Jan.
What about birds in flight ? Should I stop down a bit too ? Have to use very fast shutter speeds so perhaps less leeway ?
If the bird is a bit further away, which it usually is with BIF, depth of field, becomes larger and you can shoot more wide open
Great explanation!
thanks :)
Hi Jan, from the gloomy UK. I follow your outstanding tutorials, they are simply the best. One I eagerly await is the one using flash, is this tutorial still in the pipeline. Best Regards Tom
Thanks a lot. Great to hear my content gives you some new ideas. I am editing a flash video as we speak, hopefully, I finish it this week!
See you are using flash , as higher shutter speeds. Would love to learn how to do this, are you using high speed sync?
Steve Kunder I am, it will be my next video
Very useful Jan ... thank you :-)
Martinw Pettinger awesome!
Very useful video, thanks! Isn't this most applicable when shooting at short range as at longer ranges the depth of field will be adequate at f4?
Adam Brooker thanks! You are absolutely correct. Should’ve mentioned that. I guess when I talk about small birds I always assume short range.
@@jan_wegener Fair point! I think my biggest problem is getting close enough to small birds to fill the frame where f8 would be best, but that is a whole different problem!
Adam Brooker yes they can be tricky little buggers!
Jan Wegener really interesting. I’ve always shot my small birds wide open at f4 with my 600mm. I think with the 800mm, the compression is more pronounced to need f8-f11. I need to experiment for myself, but I wonder if f 8 is still preferred for a 600mm?
Also, do you usually shoot at the flash sync speed or at a higher speed (high speed sync). On my 1DX the sync speed is 1/250 and I do get sharp results with the better Beamer, but not all the time because of subject movement. Do you tend to go higher on your shutter speed than I do? Thanks for your thoughts.