@@DTD110865 I'm sure they'll have a structural engineer check it (or they already have). If it needs replacement or shoring-up, I'm sure UP and KCT will get it done.
Yea because this it’s too much. It’s been like what 6/7 within how many yrs now. I’ve been back since ‘19 and it’s like all I see is sante fe junction derailments
And yet another reminder to always keep a safe distance from the tracks when railfanning, even from slow-moving trains. Cause just like this one they can become dangerous in an instant. Stay safe folks!
@@darlenemassey6161 I've seen autoracks derail in Acworth, GA many years ago, more than once. Track was -- and still is -- on a raised ridge, with a busy highway on one side and a narrow street and houses on the other. If they had tipped, which autoracks do easily, they would have fallen into a house or a front yard. :o
@@debikawaii OMG i was part of tinierme when it was first released and was friends with the avatar who would sing who had the microphone i loved that online community. WOW nice to meet you
I'm going to guess that all the grain cars (?) were empty and as soon as the train started heavily braking, the heavier cars behind it caused a sort of 'crushing motion', pushing the empty cars off the tracks. "Luckily no one was hurt..." - Thomas and Friends lol
You nailed it. A big chunk of these railcars are empty heading back to Little Rock, AR. Too much weight on the back of the train pushing the lighter cars up front. Just bad train building.
Ideally, the empty cars should be at the back of the train. This way the momentum of the heavy loaded cars won’t push the lighter empty cars off the track.
Unfortunately they will probably nail the engineer for improper train handling. Trains now days are made up in blocks so the empty/load placement means nothing anymore.
Eh... I don't know if a big railroad company wants the whole internet to know about every derailment and accident that happens to them. It makes the company look bad and unreliable.
@@ADIX2400 I blame the railroads because it is their utter greed in running 2-3 mile long trains in order to save the wages/salaries of a few engineers, when it is quite obvious that the infrastructure is not capable of supporting the resultant excessively long trains.
Wow!!!!! Can we just stop and appreciate the fact that several cars went on their side only for 2 cars to really come off the tracks while the rest looked like they bounced back on the rails?!? This junction can't catch a break. It's as common as people drive on the tracks at Ashland lol.
Take a look at the grade profile from East to West on the KCT, 18th St to Santa Fe Jct. Down hill all the way, with sharp curves the bottom. The rear end is always looking to see where the head end is going. Sometimes it takes a short cut trying to find it.
There were a couple of derailments on the old Rio Grande narrow gauge where a car derailed and disappeared down into the brush. Loss of air, train reconnected and continued on only to find out later that a car was disappeared. The freight cars that the narrow gauge used where very light & made of wood so it wasn't unusual for them to derail. Or so the legend goes....
Also “happened” on the Milwaukee on St. Paul pass on ID/MT border. Train looses air, conductor goes back reconnects air lines, train arrives at destination missing cars. I wonder where else it happened?
@@KTRFP And physics. When an unbalanced force acts on something lightweight between something heavyweight on a curve, the lightweight things will topple over in the direction of the curve
in this case it was a matter of empty cars ahead of heavy ones during breaking, the heavier cars, on a grade, pushed down on the empty ones and shoved them right off of the track. The derailment last year was a string line, where the empty cars (center-beam flatcar) were pulled off the track by the heavier cars behind them, not from braking. Train building is still relevant today, even if the C1 railroads don't think so and just slap trains together regardless of how its put together. Train Length does matter if your train is built properly. Unit trains are one thing, everything is the same, but Manifest trains cannot be treated the same.
The one earlier in the year was exactly like this one. On a string-line, the derailed cars are pulled to the inside of the curve. Both these derailments were to the outside of the curve, indicating pushing from the rear.
So is this a case of the company half-assing things when putting the train together in order to save time/money? I've never really given any thought to how empty and loaded cars would be put together.
@@robertdog yes, for the most part its fine that you really don't need to worry about how the train is built. However there are certain places/subs that you DO need to think about it. Such as like Horseshoe Curve has had several string-line derailments because of improperly assembled trains.
I seen that one earlier this year and something was the same for both. There was the odd squeeling then the two consecutive bangs then things started to go out of control. I am wondering on both this incident and the one before, cause of the two consecutive bangs right before the cars leaving the rails in the same exact spot.
That's the 5th time in a row now in recent years where yet ANOTHER event occurs at Santa Fe Junction! I'm still willing to bet that this junction is proving to be cursed.
Omg I cannot believe I have to say this again and again and again: *YOU DO NOT PUT LIGHTWEIGHT CARS IN THE MIDDLE OF A TRAIN!!! EVER!!!* Am I seriously the only person that knows this?
Need to understand how this set of cars was blocked into the train, and why. To err is human, computers just keep it very interesting at times like these.
The crew has no choice but to take train the way it is blocked. A computer does not care if a car is loaded or empty, therefore all the pressure is put on the engineer and his train handling skills.
@@alexander1485 Yes the last one was a mixture of tank cars and auto racks. It happened a couple weeks ago and burned for three days. It was on the Weyburn sub between Moose Jaw and Chicago.
The one I seen earlier this year was 4 centerbeam empties being in between loaded cars and and curve was a recipe for a derailment. See If that one rings a bell to anyone else.
It was NOT the track. The cars got shoved off the curve because of weight. If the units were pulling, those cars would have string-lined and come off on the inside of the curve.
Unless the engineer left the rear engines in push too long, which can be fixed by setting up a fence. Engineers get paid the big bucks because these things don't happen on their watch.
Now the harpers ferry hooper curve derailment was caused by too many empties toward the engines on a curve, thus the cars wanted to take the shortest route... Off the tracks. Same here.?
This is very similar to the last one where they tip of the tracks and stack zig zagging. I'm surprised that one didn't shoot up into the air and start flying.
Judging by the video, this is what I'm guessing causes this to happen: When a train brakes, it takes time for the next successive car in the train to begin braking. So you can think of a "wave of braking" to pass down the train from the engine toward the end; when the "wave" gets to a car, it starts braking. But then, separately, there's the matter of the slack in the couplings. When a car brakes, and the car behind it isn't braking quite as hard (because of the aforementioned "wave" effect", the slack in the coupling diminishes, until the slack is gone and the second car can't move any further forward. This then happens to the NEXT car, and the next, and with each car the slack diminishes faster because each of those cars isn't braking as hard as the one in front of it. IMPORTANTLY, this means that all of the cars in the front part of the train with no slack are all going the same speed, and they are all going slower than the cars in the part of the train that still has slack. At some point, the speed at which the slack diminishes becomes faster than the "wave of braking" passing down the train, and you get these events where the train basically goes BOOM as all the slack is taken out of the train at once. You can hear this happen at 1:13. BUT THEN, if you're on a curve, and you've got some lightweight cars in the middle of the train, and the train BOOMS, then this can happen: the slack is all gone, but the cars haven't even begun braking yet. Worse: the cars in the back are all going FASTER than the cars in the front, and there's nowhere for them to go. So the weight of the train behind the curve (which can still be a lot of weight even if all the cars are empty!) just pushes the cars on the curve off of the track. Theoretically this could even happen on a straight section if the track is having a really bad day. Now the following could very well exist - my knowledge of train braking mechanisms is slightly outdated - but wouldn't it make more sense for trains to begin braking from the REAR of the train and work its way FORWARD? You could theoretically accomplish this by adding one additional pipe that carries the air pressure down the train to the end, and then works its way back in the opposite direction through the existing braking network. Sort of like how dedicated brake vans used to work on old fashioned trains. Apologies if anything I've said is just factually incorrect - I'm a computer engineer not a railroad engineer lol.
@@hifijohn that's possible, but it's my understanding that dpus are radio controlled, and that sort of communication is pretty instantaneous, so any change in power would likely happen both at the lead unit and the dpu at the same time. now it's entirely possible that the throttle was still up WHILE the brake was also on at the same time, which could lead to a situation where the dpu is still pushing while the brakes are on.
This area has a bend in the track and trains slowing down, the perfect formula for unbalanced slack and mass related issues because heavier (eg: loaded) cars take longer to decelerate and can push into a lighter (eg: empty) car ahead that decelerates faster. When this happens on a bend, Newton's 1st law of motion takes over.
Attention please, clean up in aisle three. Looks to me like a lack of cooperation between the lead loco and the DPU. The front half to the right of the camera slowed and the rear half was shoved into the front pushing the cars to the outside of the curve. Some commenters here believe the track is to blame. I don't believe so. What caused the DPU to stop responding to the lead loco is what I want to know?
We don't know if there was a DPU on the rear of this train or not. I am absolutely no expert in train handling, so I welcome any input or correction from those with experience. However, I've read that air brakes don't act on the entire train evenly at the same instant. When you have light empty cars at the front and heavy cars (or simply many more cars) at the rear, the brakes don't apply at the same force throughout the train until the pressure is equalized. They start applying at the front of the train first and work their way back through the train. Drifting downhill around a curve is hard enough to begin with. A DPU would actually help, as it can make a brake pipe reduction at the rear that propagates forward while a reduction at the head end propagates towards the rear.
@@beeble2003 I stated that it "LOOKS" like a DPU issue. Based on what I've learned working on a railroad, decades ago... Will not "KNOW" until the NTSB reports come in. The real question here is; what was the actual cause of the sound. It was not the "normal" run-in of slack of lots of thugs, but two short loud hits followed by the cars being pushed to the outside of the curve. "Something" was pushing... DPU or heavy cars? If I was a betting man, I'd have it on the DPU out of wack since I don't know the full makeup of the train, but do understand how touchy setting up a DPU set can be at times. To err is human, if you really want to mess things up get a computer involved.
No train expert but why does it keep derailing in the same spot 1st? One I watched was up above on the bridge now this 1 on flat ground. What's going on?
Railroads are making longer trains these days to keep up with demand. Wonder if we're going to see more and more of this before the powers that be figure something out.
No, it's not demand, it's how to pay for the cost of yearly upkeep of the PTC system, 1/10th of the install cost. This is about the same as the cost of the conductor, but one man crews seem to be out. Next best is to run two trains hooked together with two crewmen, a virtual one man crew.
@@tonyburzio4107 Can't claim to know anything about the cost of the PTC system, but UP did have a stock buyback recently, so it would appear they aren't hurting for money.
How cool would that have been if the other car would have just coupled itself right up. They left the other stuff on the side for cleanup and the train just kept on rolling 😂 No harm no foul
All ready started. Accident looks like it happened around sundown, You made your comment around 12:35 am my time. I just looked at that cam (1:35 my time) and they are there picking up the mess.
And if I were corporate and that railyard, I would be figuring out how to redo that whole thing. Obviously if it is the same place as other derailments, there is a problem and it needs to be addressed with a permanent solution.
Proof people at RR crossing should not pull up as close as you can get to a moving train. Before you had time to get out of the car the train derailing would crush you. I get made fun of all the time for staying back at least 3 to 4 car lengths from the RR crossing when I am waiting for a train to pass. This was bad in slow motion, imagine how fast that would have happened going regular speed on the main line. OUCH. John in Ohio
@@kenvandevoort7820 I can honestly believe that is correct. I try to avoid RR crossings altogether. Watching trains on RUclips is about as close as I want to get to a train. Although I do love flying in airplanes. If the plane crashes it will happen so fast I will not have time to think about dying. John in Ohio
@@silverado5469 I live next to a BNSF mainline. Nothing as exciting as riding the lawn tractor by the fence and Amtrak comes up behind you at 79 mph and just yards away. Read today that the initial Pioneer Zephyr run from Denver to Chicago was going 90 mph while going by our property. That would have been scary. The older I get, the more afraid of them I get.
@@kenvandevoort7820 there was a farmer in Idaho whose farm was bisected by mainline UP. He crossed an unguarded crossing for 40 years and one day got killed there. (near Kuna ID)
brake pipe pressure goes to 0 and the EOT signals they have a hole in the train somewhere it wont be until they walk back and get eyes on it that they will know it went on the ground
Looks like the engineer started to speed up after the engines was past the turn and that caused the cars to tip over and having 2 decouple from the rest of the train caused an emergency braking situation. Just be thankful those 2 cars decoupled and crashed off to the side or the conductor and engineer would of had some serious whiplash in the cars has they impacted the rear after detaching
Funny that is tipped over to the outside instead inside -- at that speed how could it go off to the outside? Did they brake too hard while in the turn or was there a defect in the rails?
The fact that the few cars after the derailment kept rolling on the tracks makes me think the DPU was pushing way to hard, and these cars just happened to be at the wrong spot and got pushed right over
eh more like lets make trains 2-3 times as long, and send them down a steep grade (off camera about 1/4 mile) and into an extremely sharp curve. Never had issues here till a year or two ago it seems. Right when UP adopted PSR.
No, it could just be a matter of weight and momentum. The last derailment at SFJ was similar to this and in the same spot, and there was no DPU on that train. Just a lot of unchecked momentum.
BNSF uses long trains and they aren't PSR. PSR isn't about long trains, although the different needs that brought both about happened about the same time.
Depends, engineer can set the dp unit to be in isolate or a different setting, hence until it is "moved to front" doing what the head engines are doing.
Is there an inherent problem with this area? It seems like a lot of derailments occur there, or just the law of averages? Im guessing there must be a lot of rail traffic on a daily basis.
This is the second time it happens. I guess the engineer uses the loco dynamic brakes to hold the composition and the empty cars are pushed farwards and that happens
hopefully the Derailment won't be too much of a Mess...... it looks like 2 Cars got Derailed and the other behind just moved up now what is the Back of the Train now.....
This is why we teach slack control at the throttle. But they also keep building bigger trains and then scratching their heads when something like this happens... Keep putting long strings of empties ahead of 10k+ tons of train and see what happens. Of course it's always the engineer's fault so nothing to worry about there. >_>
@@kevinl4966 21 years in the business and the last 8 in Safety and Compliance before I retired. All I can say is it's not my problem anymore. I just hate seeing the same disappointment over and over, yet they are expecting different results.
@@SD40Fan_Jason And that's what Einstein supposedly said was the definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Shoutout to that bridge column. Strong and brave
Not its first time facing derailed rolling stock, either. It shredded a centerbeam car like it was paper last time. That is a STURDY bridge.
"I fear no man, but that thing..." (Looks at the bridge column) "...it scares me."
@@PaulCashman The only question is, if there are too many of these derailments, how long will this bridge last?
@@DTD110865 I'm sure they'll have a structural engineer check it (or they already have). If it needs replacement or shoring-up, I'm sure UP and KCT will get it done.
@@PaulCashman shout out to the engineers leaving this junction flaws for us to have train wreck content
They are bound and determined to knock that bridge down.
Like for real though 🙄
Yea because this it’s too much. It’s been like what 6/7 within how many yrs now. I’ve been back since ‘19 and it’s like all I see is sante fe junction derailments
@@truckingwithpacdawg2202 Exactly 💯
Certainly not for a lack of trying! Two derailments under it, and two more on top of it! That entire junction is CURSED!!!
Precision Scheduled Derailment.
....thank you Justin
And yet another reminder to always keep a safe distance from the tracks when railfanning, even from slow-moving trains. Cause just like this one they can become dangerous in an instant.
Stay safe folks!
I used to walk in a neighborhood where there were houses so close to the track. I thought whoa, if a train derails it's a disaster.
@@darlenemassey6161 I've seen autoracks derail in Acworth, GA many years ago, more than once. Track was -- and still is -- on a raised ridge, with a busy highway on one side and a narrow street and houses on the other. If they had tipped, which autoracks do easily, they would have fallen into a house or a front yard. :o
Is that tinierme character!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@jazzmanny02 why yes it is!
@@debikawaii OMG i was part of tinierme when it was first released and was friends with the avatar who would sing who had the microphone i loved that online community. WOW nice to meet you
The most amazing video ever. All of the other cars appear to have stayed on the track, even after tipping, and they almost connected up again.
Except you know the 2 that were on their side and got pushed out of the way by the rest of the train
I'm going to guess that all the grain cars (?) were empty and as soon as the train started heavily braking, the heavier cars behind it caused a sort of 'crushing motion', pushing the empty cars off the tracks.
"Luckily no one was hurt..." - Thomas and Friends lol
You nailed it. A big chunk of these railcars are empty heading back to Little Rock, AR. Too much weight on the back of the train pushing the lighter cars up front. Just bad train building.
Ideally, the empty cars should be at the back of the train. This way the momentum of the heavy loaded cars won’t push the lighter empty cars off the track.
Unfortunately they will probably nail the engineer for improper train handling.
Trains now days are made up in blocks so the empty/load placement means nothing anymore.
I agree, same reason as the previous derailment on the same curve with the two A-frame cars.
Sir Toppam Hat replied " You have caused confusion and delay. Go to your shed and think about what you have done"
1:10. The get down. So proud of the VRF network. Every railroad company should want cams up on their tracks and sponsor you guys.... 💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕💕
Eh... I don't know if a big railroad company wants the whole internet to know about every derailment and accident that happens to them. It makes the company look bad and unreliable.
@@turnerdeedo4633 Then they should do something to make sure they don't have all those derailments and accidents.
@@BudgieJane ah yes blame the railroads like they can predict exactly what train will derai land what train won't .
@@ADIX2400 I blame the railroads because it is their utter greed in running 2-3 mile long trains in order to save the wages/salaries of a few engineers, when it is quite obvious that the infrastructure is not capable of supporting the resultant excessively long trains.
Wow!!!!! Can we just stop and appreciate the fact that several cars went on their side only for 2 cars to really come off the tracks while the rest looked like they bounced back on the rails?!? This junction can't catch a break. It's as common as people drive on the tracks at Ashland lol.
Got that right.
100% agree.
The came back upright, but not on the rail.
@@deanthomson1654 honestly I just meant it could of been worse…….
Aw man! The back of the train had about 15' & it could have reconnected. They could have been out of there before anyone knew better!😂
Thats what i was thinking! Kind of like when stuff falls out of the back of your pick up truck..Just look the other way and keep going!
Take a look at the grade profile from East to West on the KCT, 18th St to Santa Fe Jct. Down hill all the way, with sharp curves the bottom. The rear end is always looking to see where the head end is going. Sometimes it takes a short cut trying to find it.
No centerbeams were claimed this time!
It was fun watching that centerbeam getting shredded like tinfoil last time. Those bridge supports are STRONG.
🤐🤐
There were a couple of derailments on the old Rio Grande narrow gauge where a car derailed and disappeared down into the brush. Loss of air, train reconnected and continued on only to find out later that a car was disappeared. The freight cars that the narrow gauge used where very light & made of wood so it wasn't unusual for them to derail. Or so the legend goes....
Also “happened” on the Milwaukee on St. Paul pass on ID/MT border. Train looses air, conductor goes back reconnects air lines, train arrives at destination missing cars.
I wonder where else it happened?
My favorite sound in rail fanning is when a train comes to a screeching halt but unfortunately I don’t always get to hear it
It looked like some invisible force pushed those cars over.
An invisible force known as gravity 🙂
@@KTRFP And physics. When an unbalanced force acts on something lightweight between something heavyweight on a curve, the lightweight things will topple over in the direction of the curve
Sorry, I was there, I had just had taco bell. Broke wind and boom.
@@KTRFP it's not gravity. It's centrifugal force. The same one that makes you feel like you'll fly out of the door when you turn too quickly in a car
Wow, pretty major derailment. Interested to find out what happened (yes, yes, I know - the wheels came off the rails :-P )
in this case it was a matter of empty cars ahead of heavy ones during breaking, the heavier cars, on a grade, pushed down on the empty ones and shoved them right off of the track. The derailment last year was a string line, where the empty cars (center-beam flatcar) were pulled off the track by the heavier cars behind them, not from braking.
Train building is still relevant today, even if the C1 railroads don't think so and just slap trains together regardless of how its put together. Train Length does matter if your train is built properly. Unit trains are one thing, everything is the same, but Manifest trains cannot be treated the same.
The one earlier in the year was exactly like this one. On a string-line, the derailed cars are pulled to the inside of the curve. Both these derailments were to the outside of the curve, indicating pushing from the rear.
Incorrect use of the fence.
Which is why you supplement with air while slowing while using dynamic brakes. Too much dynos and this is what could happen.
So is this a case of the company half-assing things when putting the train together in order to save time/money? I've never really given any thought to how empty and loaded cars would be put together.
@@robertdog yes, for the most part its fine that you really don't need to worry about how the train is built. However there are certain places/subs that you DO need to think about it. Such as like Horseshoe Curve has had several string-line derailments because of improperly assembled trains.
Whoa! Way bigger than I was expecting!
Wow that’s a lot of damage!
I seen that one earlier this year and something was the same for both. There was the odd squeeling then the two consecutive bangs then things started to go out of control. I am wondering on both this incident and the one before, cause of the two consecutive bangs right before the cars leaving the rails in the same exact spot.
That's the 5th time in a row now in recent years where yet ANOTHER event occurs at Santa Fe Junction!
I'm still willing to bet that this junction is proving to be cursed.
Naw, if it was truly cursed the Big Boy would have derailed.
@@tonyburzio4107 Let's not go there.... ^^'
Precision Scheduled Rerailing
Omg I cannot believe I have to say this again and again and again: *YOU DO NOT PUT LIGHTWEIGHT CARS IN THE MIDDLE OF A TRAIN!!! EVER!!!* Am I seriously the only person that knows this?
It seems that certain railroad workers do not. lol.
Need to understand how this set of cars was blocked into the train, and why. To err is human, computers just keep it very interesting at times like these.
Clearly. Railroads should have hired you to build all their trains
No, you are not the only person that knows. Every model railroader knows this too.
The crew has no choice but to take train the way it is blocked. A computer does not care if a car is loaded or empty, therefore all the pressure is put on the engineer and his train handling skills.
Man that was loud!
Nothing like the ones Canadian Pacific has in Saskatchewan. They end up in a huge fireball that burns for days.😮
Tank cars? Hoppers wpuldnt do that.
@@alexander1485 Yes the last one was a mixture of tank cars and auto racks. It happened a couple weeks ago and burned for three days. It was on the Weyburn sub between Moose Jaw and Chicago.
The one I seen earlier this year was 4 centerbeam empties being in between loaded cars and and curve was a recipe for a derailment. See If that one rings a bell to anyone else.
A minor derailment and not as spectacular as the previous wreck earlier this year. Glad no one was injured.
I'm beginning to think that whatever program creates the AI generated images for songs also blocks freight cars into manifest trains
OK train.lay down! Good train who's a good train, you are!
Idk if they should check every track on Santa Fe Junctions or closed the whole thing until everything is checked and fixed.
It was NOT the track. The cars got shoved off the curve because of weight. If the units were pulling, those cars would have string-lined and come off on the inside of the curve.
Unless the engineer left the rear engines in push too long, which can be fixed by setting up a fence. Engineers get paid the big bucks because these things don't happen on their watch.
Now the harpers ferry hooper curve derailment was caused by too many empties toward the engines on a curve, thus the cars wanted to take the shortest route... Off the tracks. Same here.?
Or it could be the engineer didn't correctly use the fence.
@@tonyburzio4107 fence?
This is very similar to the last one where they tip of the tracks and stack zig zagging. I'm surprised that one didn't shoot up into the air and start flying.
3 derailments on the same track plus overhead. This place is worth watching all the time. Not sure why that curve is such a nuisance.
Judging by the video, this is what I'm guessing causes this to happen:
When a train brakes, it takes time for the next successive car in the train to begin braking. So you can think of a "wave of braking" to pass down the train from the engine toward the end; when the "wave" gets to a car, it starts braking.
But then, separately, there's the matter of the slack in the couplings. When a car brakes, and the car behind it isn't braking quite as hard (because of the aforementioned "wave" effect", the slack in the coupling diminishes, until the slack is gone and the second car can't move any further forward. This then happens to the NEXT car, and the next, and with each car the slack diminishes faster because each of those cars isn't braking as hard as the one in front of it.
IMPORTANTLY, this means that all of the cars in the front part of the train with no slack are all going the same speed, and they are all going slower than the cars in the part of the train that still has slack.
At some point, the speed at which the slack diminishes becomes faster than the "wave of braking" passing down the train, and you get these events where the train basically goes BOOM as all the slack is taken out of the train at once. You can hear this happen at 1:13.
BUT THEN, if you're on a curve, and you've got some lightweight cars in the middle of the train, and the train BOOMS, then this can happen: the slack is all gone, but the cars haven't even begun braking yet. Worse: the cars in the back are all going FASTER than the cars in the front, and there's nowhere for them to go. So the weight of the train behind the curve (which can still be a lot of weight even if all the cars are empty!) just pushes the cars on the curve off of the track. Theoretically this could even happen on a straight section if the track is having a really bad day.
Now the following could very well exist - my knowledge of train braking mechanisms is slightly outdated - but wouldn't it make more sense for trains to begin braking from the REAR of the train and work its way FORWARD? You could theoretically accomplish this by adding one additional pipe that carries the air pressure down the train to the end, and then works its way back in the opposite direction through the existing braking network. Sort of like how dedicated brake vans used to work on old fashioned trains.
Apologies if anything I've said is just factually incorrect - I'm a computer engineer not a railroad engineer lol.
IM guessing the pusher loco in the back kept pushing while the front locos slowed down.
@@hifijohn that's possible, but it's my understanding that dpus are radio controlled, and that sort of communication is pretty instantaneous, so any change in power would likely happen both at the lead unit and the dpu at the same time. now it's entirely possible that the throttle was still up WHILE the brake was also on at the same time, which could lead to a situation where the dpu is still pushing while the brakes are on.
Union Pacific needs to get their act together with this curve.
Saw this live.
*hi bro*
Dang
@@Triplight-SR20DET ikr
Odd that it happened in the same spot no less than a year ago.
This area has a bend in the track and trains slowing down, the perfect formula for unbalanced slack and mass related issues because heavier (eg: loaded) cars take longer to decelerate and can push into a lighter (eg: empty) car ahead that decelerates faster. When this happens on a bend, Newton's 1st law of motion takes over.
Yup! Train consists are important. Heavy cars in front and lighter cars on rear. But they never take that into consideration.
Severe slack action!! Gotta love the train make up nowadays! 😆
The Santa Fe curse
Same exact spot as the previous one on that lower line !!! DAYUM must be the corner angled wrong?? LOL
Attention please, clean up in aisle three.
Looks to me like a lack of cooperation between the lead loco and the DPU. The front half to the right of the camera slowed and the rear half was shoved into the front pushing the cars to the outside of the curve.
Some commenters here believe the track is to blame. I don't believe so. What caused the DPU to stop responding to the lead loco is what I want to know?
Thanks
Why do you think it was a DPU issue? The train has just come downhill and entered a sharp curve.
We don't know if there was a DPU on the rear of this train or not. I am absolutely no expert in train handling, so I welcome any input or correction from those with experience. However, I've read that air brakes don't act on the entire train evenly at the same instant. When you have light empty cars at the front and heavy cars (or simply many more cars) at the rear, the brakes don't apply at the same force throughout the train until the pressure is equalized. They start applying at the front of the train first and work their way back through the train. Drifting downhill around a curve is hard enough to begin with. A DPU would actually help, as it can make a brake pipe reduction at the rear that propagates forward while a reduction at the head end propagates towards the rear.
@@beeble2003 I stated that it "LOOKS" like a DPU issue. Based on what I've learned working on a railroad, decades ago... Will not "KNOW" until the NTSB reports come in.
The real question here is; what was the actual cause of the sound. It was not the "normal" run-in of slack of lots of thugs, but two short loud hits followed by the cars being pushed to the outside of the curve. "Something" was pushing... DPU or heavy cars? If I was a betting man, I'd have it on the DPU out of wack since I don't know the full makeup of the train, but do understand how touchy setting up a DPU set can be at times. To err is human, if you really want to mess things up get a computer involved.
That section Is cursed !
I also think it was the rear engin pushing to hard as they all rolled over to the outside of the curve
Nope rear engine wasn’t pushing at all
@@mattsmith9799 Hi Mat how do you know that, please tell
What pusher engine? Where is it in the video?
@@tonydavey3741 bc I wasn’t using the DP
@@mattsmith9799 You were the engineer on that trainsir
No train expert but why does it keep derailing in the same spot 1st? One I watched was up above on the bridge now this 1 on flat ground. What's going on?
Conductor walks back: "Broke another knuckle. Wait a minute..."
That was loud when it started derailing.
Railroads are making longer trains these days to keep up with demand. Wonder if we're going to see more and more of this before the powers that be figure something out.
Many cities on the East Coast have streets paved with block or cobblestone used as ballast on colonial ships. Just an idea. :)
No, it's not demand, it's how to pay for the cost of yearly upkeep of the PTC system, 1/10th of the install cost. This is about the same as the cost of the conductor, but one man crews seem to be out. Next best is to run two trains hooked together with two crewmen, a virtual one man crew.
@@tonyburzio4107 Can't claim to know anything about the cost of the PTC system, but UP did have a stock buyback recently, so it would appear they aren't hurting for money.
Oops! Houston, we have a problem.
I get 5.3 mph from 2 locomotives of length 73.6 ft passing in 19.09 seconds
How cool would that have been if the other car would have just coupled itself right up.
They left the other stuff on the side for cleanup and the train just kept on rolling 😂
No harm no foul
Those last 2 covered hoppers are rear truck on the ground and back car both trucks on the ground. Watch again with 0.5 and 0.25 speed of video.
We hope no one is hurt
Is it just the length of the train that's helping these along
Well, this will certainly cause some confusion and delay
Can I get a clean up on aisle 3?!
Sweet...
When does the clearance process begin?
All ready started. Accident looks like it happened around sundown, You made your comment around 12:35 am my time. I just looked at that cam (1:35 my time) and they are there picking up the mess.
And if I were corporate and that railyard, I would be figuring out how to redo that whole thing. Obviously if it is the same place as other derailments, there is a problem and it needs to be addressed with a permanent solution.
It wouldn't really be cost effective, as that train is really the only one that uses that connector regularly.
Proof people at RR crossing should not pull up as close as you can get to a moving train. Before you had time to get out of the car the train derailing would crush you.
I get made fun of all the time for staying back at least 3 to 4 car lengths from the RR crossing when I am waiting for a train to pass. This was bad in slow motion, imagine how fast that would have happened going regular speed on the main line. OUCH. John in Ohio
Operation Lifesaver presenter when asked what is the safest distance to be at a crossing responded with "two blocks".
@@kenvandevoort7820 I can honestly believe that is correct. I try to avoid RR crossings altogether.
Watching trains on RUclips is about as close as I want to get to a train.
Although I do love flying in airplanes. If the plane crashes it will happen so fast I will not have time to think about dying. John in Ohio
@@silverado5469 I live next to a BNSF mainline. Nothing as exciting as riding the lawn tractor by the fence and Amtrak comes up behind you at 79 mph and just yards away. Read today that the initial Pioneer Zephyr run from Denver to Chicago was going 90 mph while going by our property. That would have been scary. The older I get, the more afraid of them I get.
@@kenvandevoort7820 there was a farmer in Idaho whose farm was bisected by mainline UP. He crossed an unguarded crossing for 40 years and one day got killed there. (near Kuna ID)
That was a mild derailment that turned out well
thanks to the help of The Mainline Company.
that was such as very loud boom
sounding like an airstrike
Gotta say, it was a Monday & you know how they can be ...
It didnt even look like it was going fast enough but yet the first car that pushed the one csr off the track seemed to speed up a little. What a mess
Santa Fe junction: your favourite place of derailments
i will say this is an interesting very tight corner it probly picked that crossover switch just entering this curb
Is no one going to point out the fact that this same day last year was when the NS Southern heritage unit derailed?
Hope everybody was ok! How did it derail?
Is this the second one, same place in the last two years? Yikes!
How does the conductor's gets notified emergency alert from the engine unit when the rail car's are derailed
brake pipe pressure goes to 0 and the EOT signals they have a hole in the train somewhere it wont be until they walk back and get eyes on it that they will know it went on the ground
Looks like the engineer started to speed up after the engines was past the turn and that caused the cars to tip over and having 2 decouple from the rest of the train caused an emergency braking situation. Just be thankful those 2 cars decoupled and crashed off to the side or the conductor and engineer would of had some serious whiplash in the cars has they impacted the rear after detaching
No, acceleration would stretch the train and pull the cars off on the inside of the curve.
They just wanted to
Switch out those two cars on the ground 🤣
Tuck & roll!
They have actually put up a few beams around those columns for reinforcements prevent a bridge collapse at some point after this
Penn Central would be proud TBH 🥶💀
Funny that is tipped over to the outside instead inside -- at that speed how could it go off to the outside? Did they brake too hard while in the turn or was there a defect in the rails?
@@T_Hoog -- OK, that makes sense.
Only on VR catching all the action....
What!? Another one!? Jee-weez! Something to do with the track itself I believe.
At least some of the hoppers stayed on track
The brake lines are probably toast on the ones that rolled over and then back.
The fact that the few cars after the derailment kept rolling on the tracks makes me think the DPU was pushing way to hard, and these cars just happened to be at the wrong spot and got pushed right over
eh more like lets make trains 2-3 times as long, and send them down a steep grade (off camera about 1/4 mile) and into an extremely sharp curve. Never had issues here till a year or two ago it seems. Right when UP adopted PSR.
No, it could just be a matter of weight and momentum. The last derailment at SFJ was similar to this and in the same spot, and there was no DPU on that train. Just a lot of unchecked momentum.
If the hogger put the engines in dynamic, wouldn't the DPU also be in dynamic?
BNSF uses long trains and they aren't PSR. PSR isn't about long trains, although the different needs that brought both about happened about the same time.
Depends, engineer can set the dp unit to be in isolate or a different setting, hence until it is "moved to front" doing what the head engines are doing.
Is there an inherent problem with this area? It seems like a lot of derailments occur there, or just the law of averages? Im guessing there must be a lot of rail traffic on a daily basis.
Another derailment?! What is this like the third one that happened live on this camera?
yeah....1 on bridge and 2 on that curve
We are on the ground!
Another one?? What is going on with that track?
2 in 1 year 👏🏻👏🏻
This is the second time it happens. I guess the engineer uses the loco dynamic brakes to hold the composition and the empty cars are pushed farwards and that happens
Looks and sounds like the side bearing or frame failed on the truck. The load leaned over causing the following cars to lean over also.
Oh my gosh I feel like something is off with that track
Been thru there thousands of times, no issues
That's railroading.... typical string line derailment. No track damaged. Like Joan Baez sang, when will they ever learn, when will they learn 😊
This wasn’t as bad as the last one at least.
Why do trains keep derailing here
Exactly. Most derailments are here and not anywhere else.
the curve has no incline
Bad train building.
@@KTRFP That is a factor too!
The Santa Fe curse
How does that happen mid train?
Push on the back, slow on the front, tiddly winks.
At least the Bridge stayed put and no one was injured
Something tells me that BNSF needs to fix that curve
That will buff right out. 😜
hopefully the Derailment won't be too much of a Mess...... it looks like 2 Cars got Derailed and the other behind just moved up now what is the Back of the Train now.....
And another one down
And another one down
Another one bites the dust
That's the same spot those center beam flat cars derailed at.
The derailed cars were nice enough to get out of the way.
How did that happen?
This is why we teach slack control at the throttle. But they also keep building bigger trains and then scratching their heads when something like this happens... Keep putting long strings of empties ahead of 10k+ tons of train and see what happens. Of course it's always the engineer's fault so nothing to worry about there. >_>
You nailed it.
@@kevinl4966 21 years in the business and the last 8 in Safety and Compliance before I retired. All I can say is it's not my problem anymore. I just hate seeing the same disappointment over and over, yet they are expecting different results.
@@SD40Fan_Jason You nailed it Jason. And yes, the engineer will get the credit, not the curve, length or build of the train. Dolla bills y'all.
Or why he should have used air
@@SD40Fan_Jason And that's what Einstein supposedly said was the definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
Modern railroading at its finest.
that's a fender bender