Theres nothing inherentley wrong with cutting springs. In fact, I read a book on car handling from the late 60s or so and it suggested it. Keep in mind that was before coilovers existed and aftermarket lowering springs were hard to get ahold of on most cars.
Cut springs are objectively worse than lowering springs and coilovers, but they do accomplish the same thing and the price-to-performance aspect is unmatched.
ford inline 3 was considered for gma t43 hybrid , which didnt reach mass production because "mass prdocuders gave up on combustion" or soemthing like that. i liked the 1 exhust pipe per cyilnder on ur inline 4, hybrid inline 3 with electric assited turbo is best engine at least for non big truck applications in my opinion @@HatersGarage
Back in the early 90s my dad bought a lowering kit for his Mitsubishi Mighty Max, and for the front coils it literally was just a clamp that brought the coils closer together. He hated it because the ride was horrible and took it off. He talked to an old hot rod dude that said you could heat the springs and then just press it down to make the springs smaller but my dad just opted to keep it stock at that point
Some measurments and a spring calculator can help you figre out the drop, and the increase in rate. This is not easy on many cars and aftermarket springs are cheap af.
Lowering springs are pretty inexpensive, however they're not always available. For example no one offers lowering springs for the Plymouth Sundance in the video.
Use to always just clamp them back in the day and check them here and there. Never had a problem and when done or selling pull them off and back to stock in one hr
I wish I was strong enough in math to be able to see how much of a difference a drop in ride height does to a cars capabilities. Not even just with looking at cutting springs or lowering springs, but many sport tuned cars get lowered ride height as part of the mods, and I don’t really know what thats doing past anecdote.
Depends, too low and your roll center goes underground on many cars making handling worse. With all things, there is a sweet spot. It's more than just having a low cg, if the suspension works diferently in compression. If it's just mcstruts, slam it and give it a lil camber.
Lowering is mostly for looks, although the other things can help that isn’t the main reason lowering springs help- cutting the spring actually increases the spring rate which prevents the car from rolling as much. Just about every ”sports package” or lowering spring is also stiffer. Suspension can start acting very wonky at its limits if lowered too far and ruin the handling even with theoretical be if it’s of lower CG etc.
Harsh ride is probably the bump stops that should have been trimmed. People who just blankety cry “cut springs r bad mmmkay” don’t understand suspension spring dynamics. Shortening a spring by removing 1-2 coils will increase the spring rate, in addition to making the spring shorter. If you have good dampers that can handle the higher spring rate, and enough suspension travel left (shortened bump stops needed), theoretically cut springs can be just fine. The problems arise when there’s not enough suspension travel, and the increased soring rate ends up blowing out the dampers.
@@HatersGaragemy masters degree is in Vehicle dynamics, i say cut your springs ;) just keep track of your suspension travel. Measure it, or film it to see that you dont bottom out to much :)
B15 sentra owner here. (I've owned like 10, I know, I like Spain without the s) the dog leg is a right of passage for every b15 owner, you can't fix it. Unless you do a panhard bar. But what's the fun in that!? If you really want to get squirrly, bend the rear beam. You can get 2 degrees of camber. You just need a chain, some wood, a pump jack, a solid steel i beam and a torch.
Yeah I'm curious as to how it's going to perform with the cut springs. And the doglegging is funny, people come up to me at events and go "dude you're 3 wheeling every turn". I didn't know it was doing it until someone told me and I saw the footage.
Three wheeling is intentionally designed. It has something to do with physics working in a goofy fashion but you gain grip by lifting the least useful wheel at the time. RWD race cars lift inner front on the exit, FWD's lift inner rear on entry.
The cut isn’t the problem it’s the metal If I’m not mistaken coil springs are cold wound and if you cut one the heater generated from the friction would be enough to soften the spring giving it no support
I believe you're thinking of heated springs, where you just take a blow torch the coil and heat it up to lower it. Using a cutoff wheel doesn't generate all that much heat, but if you're concerned with heating it up too much you could always use a sawsall.
Inner wheel lift is actually not a bad thing. More weight = more friction, and the rear inner wheel on a fwd car is a good sacrifice for the rest to have it.
people get all up in arms. your ride will be bouncy, you might die, yadda yadda. here's the truth, dont cut too much free height, so it will stay in the the perch like it should, and don't expect your worn out shocks to hold up. if you have new-ish shocks they will be fine, if you have old ones, then you start sending them travelling outside the zone they are worn into, they will start leaking. so you will prob have to replace the shocks too.
it all really depends when cutting coil springs. shocks have a certain amount of wiggle room built into them which massively vary, if you go over that amount then you risk damaging the shocks themselves which is why it's a big no no since there's hardly any data on stock shocks & even if you shorten it by that certain margin your shocks are experiencing access forces they weren't designed for meaning you'll cause them to wear out much quicker than stock. finally lowering just the springs you'll cause other suspension components to wear out or even break since you're altering the suspension geometry.
I cut 1 coil off some Intrax springs about 23 years ago on my first car to get the rear to sit even with the front. Those were progressive rate springs with “dead” coils on the rear with car on the ground. Since the dead coils were already touching, their spring “rate” was basically infinite, meaning that cutting off one coil didn’t change the actual loaded spring rate at all.
Springs are made in way to work correctly ONLY when left alone and not cut! When you cut a spring, it will start to break down. This is because springs are made while they are hot, then cooled down and create the actual "spring" effect. This means when you alter the coil in any way (cutting or touching), you will be buying new ones soon because they will shatter or ride just terrible. Cut springs won't be better at performance than stock, and if you say they feel like a coilover then your buying the wrong coilovers. I recommend coilovers for track cars just for the adjustability, or if you know what spring you need just buy an aftermarket one instead of breaking your own. If you want a lowered ride cheap, I recommend spring compressors but only specific one. You may be able to find them somewhere but they will keep the spring rate and not mess with the integrity of them. I have jumped hills in trans am with spring compressors on and they have never even moved when put on correctly, only $20! (I'd look for more permanent options tho)
@@HatersGarage It's not about keeping them hot or cool, if you cut them period it will cause a loss of that spring. Think of it being able to withstand a force compressing it, now when it's cut it will no longer have that same effect. Instead it's like having dead metal in the shape of a spring, it can no longer bare the weight of a car bouncing on it and will stress and eventually snap. When you talk performance, I have never heard of a competitive car racing on cut springs
@@catbot360mancatbot6 Can you provide a source for that? The way I see it, the spring has the same metal composition through the whole spring, and it doesn't lose that just because you shorten it. When springs are made in factories the same material is rolled out, cut, and heat treated as one piece. As for it not handling better, it absolutely does. I've autocrossed the Sentra plenty of times and I can absolutely say that it can turn corners faster. It doesn't have the adjustability of coilovers, but it has a lower center of gravity and reduced body roll with the shorter springs.
@@HatersGarage I can't provide a source for it because it isn't easy as that with engineering, but neither can you find sources on your argument. I'm not trying to hate but I wouldn't be recommending it for "performance". I could care less if you want to do it to lower your car but it shouldn't be used on a track. It will help you lower your center of gravity but in the most unsafe way. I said I only never heard of a COMPETITIVE car racing on cut springs. Look at some of the best cars doing autocross in your local area, ask them what suspension they are running, I guaranteed they wont say cut springs. Your spring is made with a specific amount of thickness, length, height, and multiple other parts. Your handling can become worse too without changing your shocks to complement your springs, making you lose contact patch on your tires (traction). I like your videos exploring different things that hasn't been done but I wouldn't do this cutting springs argument, its been talked about for years and people just want a free way to gain performance so it will just keep becoming a topic till they find enough other people saying they are right
@@catbot360mancatbot6 I do want to make a follow up video after race season starts to see how it effects my times. That will also give me some time to report any ill effects.
Theres nothing inherentley wrong with cutting springs. In fact, I read a book on car handling from the late 60s or so and it suggested it. Keep in mind that was before coilovers existed and aftermarket lowering springs were hard to get ahold of on most cars.
Cut springs are objectively worse than lowering springs and coilovers, but they do accomplish the same thing and the price-to-performance aspect is unmatched.
ford inline 3 was considered for gma t43 hybrid , which didnt reach mass production because "mass prdocuders gave up on combustion" or soemthing like that. i liked the 1 exhust pipe per cyilnder on ur inline 4, hybrid inline 3 with electric assited turbo is best engine at least for non big truck applications in my opinion @@HatersGarage
@@kalmmonke5037How is that related?
plus once you cut them enough, you no longer have to use the spring compressor to take them out!
Yeah that is convenient lol
Yikes
this has to be one of the greattest automotive channels ive seen. ill be seeing your next videos :) (i subscribed)
Back in the early 90s my dad bought a lowering kit for his Mitsubishi Mighty Max, and for the front coils it literally was just a clamp that brought the coils closer together. He hated it because the ride was horrible and took it off. He talked to an old hot rod dude that said you could heat the springs and then just press it down to make the springs smaller but my dad just opted to keep it stock at that point
Heating springs is something I don't think I'll ever do, messes with the heat treatment.
I cut the coils (front) on my XJ & tossed a leaf from each side in the rear. Shit was fine. Lowered Jeep XJ was hot 8)
lmao
One coil works fine, gets pretty firm. The dynamics will be worse than stock for all-round driving but you will look much cooler.
Some measurments and a spring calculator can help you figre out the drop, and the increase in rate. This is not easy on many cars and aftermarket springs are cheap af.
Lowering springs are pretty inexpensive, however they're not always available. For example no one offers lowering springs for the Plymouth Sundance in the video.
Use to always just clamp them back in the day and check them here and there. Never had a problem and when done or selling pull them off and back to stock in one hr
My cat died from this.
I'm sorry for your loss.
im sorry. wanna know how this happened cuz i did it and wanna knownwhat could happen. It's finenif not
It’s a joke
I meant what I said in my reply to that random knowitall's comment. I am subscribing so I don't miss the follow up video, so don't let me down!
Melting w torch is the best way slops😂 takes a minute each.
I wish I was strong enough in math to be able to see how much of a difference a drop in ride height does to a cars capabilities. Not even just with looking at cutting springs or lowering springs, but many sport tuned cars get lowered ride height as part of the mods, and I don’t really know what thats doing past anecdote.
It helps for a few reasons. lower center of gravity, reduced body roll, increased responsiveness, more predictable handling, better aerodynamics, etc.
Depends, too low and your roll center goes underground on many cars making handling worse. With all things, there is a sweet spot. It's more than just having a low cg, if the suspension works diferently in compression. If it's just mcstruts, slam it and give it a lil camber.
Lowering is mostly for looks, although the other things can help that isn’t the main reason lowering springs help- cutting the spring actually increases the spring rate which prevents the car from rolling as much. Just about every ”sports package” or lowering spring is also stiffer.
Suspension can start acting very wonky at its limits if lowered too far and ruin the handling even with theoretical be if it’s of lower CG etc.
stiffness, lower center of gravity, and less body roll
Harsh ride is probably the bump stops that should have been trimmed.
People who just blankety cry “cut springs r bad mmmkay” don’t understand suspension spring dynamics. Shortening a spring by removing 1-2 coils will increase the spring rate, in addition to making the spring shorter. If you have good dampers that can handle the higher spring rate, and enough suspension travel left (shortened bump stops needed), theoretically cut springs can be just fine. The problems arise when there’s not enough suspension travel, and the increased soring rate ends up blowing out the dampers.
You're right 100%
@@HatersGaragemy masters degree is in Vehicle dynamics, i say cut your springs ;) just keep track of your suspension travel. Measure it, or film it to see that you dont bottom out to much :)
B15 sentra owner here. (I've owned like 10, I know, I like Spain without the s) the dog leg is a right of passage for every b15 owner, you can't fix it. Unless you do a panhard bar. But what's the fun in that!? If you really want to get squirrly, bend the rear beam. You can get 2 degrees of camber. You just need a chain, some wood, a pump jack, a solid steel i beam and a torch.
Yeah I'm curious as to how it's going to perform with the cut springs. And the doglegging is funny, people come up to me at events and go "dude you're 3 wheeling every turn". I didn't know it was doing it until someone told me and I saw the footage.
@HatersGarage 2j has some decent springs for like a hundo. I got some old nismo springs for like 40 on offerup. Recently as well.
You’ll contract the suds is top tier
hey i was at the concert too
0:39 Man, I thought for years people meant leaf spring. Turns out it was leave spring all along. 😂
im shocked this video has less than 600 views i expected at least a couple hundred thousand just by the dialogue
Gotta go to Michael Jackson concert, i'm already late 🤣🤣😂😂
cut first ask questions later
Cut 3 times, measure never.
Three wheeling is intentionally designed. It has something to do with physics working in a goofy fashion but you gain grip by lifting the least useful wheel at the time. RWD race cars lift inner front on the exit, FWD's lift inner rear on entry.
From a traction standpoint it's also far from ideal
The cut isn’t the problem it’s the metal
If I’m not mistaken coil springs are cold wound and if you cut one the heater generated from the friction would be enough to soften the spring giving it no support
I believe you're thinking of heated springs, where you just take a blow torch the coil and heat it up to lower it.
Using a cutoff wheel doesn't generate all that much heat, but if you're concerned with heating it up too much you could always use a sawsall.
My ranger has cut coils and so does my buddy's tahoe
bubble gum & tuna cans 😂 i miss my old nissan
Inner wheel lift is actually not a bad thing. More weight = more friction, and the rear inner wheel on a fwd car is a good sacrifice for the rest to have it.
A little bit, yes. 10 inches off the ground, no.
Yo, I’m cutting my stock coils on a 2001 Lexus GS 300 the front have a pigtail at the bottom, but the tops aren’t Should I cut from the top or bottom?
You can't cut the side with the pigtail, cut the side that isn't.
@@HatersGaragebet thx
Cut springs rule cut the springs in the Volvo blew my shocks out but fuck it looks cool
people get all up in arms. your ride will be bouncy, you might die, yadda yadda.
here's the truth, dont cut too much free height, so it will stay in the the perch like it should, and don't expect your worn out shocks to hold up. if you have new-ish shocks they will be fine, if you have old ones, then you start sending them travelling outside the zone they are worn into, they will start leaking. so you will prob have to replace the shocks too.
I guess you could say these springs are.... *"cut-rate"?* AHAHAHAHAHAHA-
I'll see myself out now....
it all really depends when cutting coil springs. shocks have a certain amount of wiggle room built into them which massively vary, if you go over that amount then you risk damaging the shocks themselves which is why it's a big no no since there's hardly any data on stock shocks & even if you shorten it by that certain margin your shocks are experiencing access forces they weren't designed for meaning you'll cause them to wear out much quicker than stock. finally lowering just the springs you'll cause other suspension components to wear out or even break since you're altering the suspension geometry.
How about lowering springs that are cut?
I don't see why not, you could basically put it on the ground at that point.
I cut 1 coil off some Intrax springs about 23 years ago on my first car to get the rear to sit even with the front. Those were progressive rate springs with “dead” coils on the rear with car on the ground. Since the dead coils were already touching, their spring “rate” was basically infinite, meaning that cutting off one coil didn’t change the actual loaded spring rate at all.
Michael Jackson concert 🤣🤣🤣
0:02
TF is that?
Contract
Springs are made in way to work correctly ONLY when left alone and not cut! When you cut a spring, it will start to break down. This is because springs are made while they are hot, then cooled down and create the actual "spring" effect. This means when you alter the coil in any way (cutting or touching), you will be buying new ones soon because they will shatter or ride just terrible. Cut springs won't be better at performance than stock, and if you say they feel like a coilover then your buying the wrong coilovers. I recommend coilovers for track cars just for the adjustability, or if you know what spring you need just buy an aftermarket one instead of breaking your own. If you want a lowered ride cheap, I recommend spring compressors but only specific one. You may be able to find them somewhere but they will keep the spring rate and not mess with the integrity of them. I have jumped hills in trans am with spring compressors on and they have never even moved when put on correctly, only $20! (I'd look for more permanent options tho)
You don't have to get them super hot when you cut them and ruin the heat treating. if you wanted to keep them cool you could use a sawzall.
@@HatersGarage It's not about keeping them hot or cool, if you cut them period it will cause a loss of that spring. Think of it being able to withstand a force compressing it, now when it's cut it will no longer have that same effect. Instead it's like having dead metal in the shape of a spring, it can no longer bare the weight of a car bouncing on it and will stress and eventually snap. When you talk performance, I have never heard of a competitive car racing on cut springs
@@catbot360mancatbot6 Can you provide a source for that? The way I see it, the spring has the same metal composition through the whole spring, and it doesn't lose that just because you shorten it. When springs are made in factories the same material is rolled out, cut, and heat treated as one piece.
As for it not handling better, it absolutely does. I've autocrossed the Sentra plenty of times and I can absolutely say that it can turn corners faster. It doesn't have the adjustability of coilovers, but it has a lower center of gravity and reduced body roll with the shorter springs.
@@HatersGarage I can't provide a source for it because it isn't easy as that with engineering, but neither can you find sources on your argument. I'm not trying to hate but I wouldn't be recommending it for "performance". I could care less if you want to do it to lower your car but it shouldn't be used on a track. It will help you lower your center of gravity but in the most unsafe way. I said I only never heard of a COMPETITIVE car racing on cut springs. Look at some of the best cars doing autocross in your local area, ask them what suspension they are running, I guaranteed they wont say cut springs. Your spring is made with a specific amount of thickness, length, height, and multiple other parts. Your handling can become worse too without changing your shocks to complement your springs, making you lose contact patch on your tires (traction). I like your videos exploring different things that hasn't been done but I wouldn't do this cutting springs argument, its been talked about for years and people just want a free way to gain performance so it will just keep becoming a topic till they find enough other people saying they are right
@@catbot360mancatbot6 I do want to make a follow up video after race season starts to see how it effects my times. That will also give me some time to report any ill effects.
no, this video should have a disclaimer, if you die due to suspension failure you can sue for haters garage for as much as he's worth.
Check the description.