Since it moves, it's ready to go. Now just build it. Major milestone. I noticed a few things: 1. Lots of zip ties 2. Looks like people building a street rod or dirt track car. It's pretty basic and that switch panel and key E-Stop 3. Why do they need to be wearing helmets and a 6 pt harness? Just cruising around the parking lot. 4. I see they have KW dampers on it and the rear has an external reservoir. 5. No wheel speed sensors 6. No heat exchangers hooked up 7. A few suits looking around. 8. The most people I have ever seen in the factory, yet looks like 5 people doing the actual work. 9. It's a prototype, not what they intend to build. 10. No sign of the other Pi's
@@artsmith103 - Correct. Plus you'll see the temp sensor (that's the blue thing). The fittings are at the bottom and there's nothing attached to them. On a previous video, it shows the fan attached to the heat exchanger. I'm sorry that I call them heat exchangers but in the world of engineering, we just use the term heat exchanger. No matter if it's a radiator, condenser, evaporator or cooler. All do the same thing. Plus, air is considered a fluid too. Sounds odd, but it makes sense when doing calculations. For example, a radiator has two fluids. One is water and the other is air. You exchange the heat from one to the other. You can't cheat physics, so it's not hard to figure out. I see it as this video from Aptera was just another dog and pony show as they are required to do this as the funding vs fundraising is not balanced.
Also, I was just at the University of Colorado Boulder. My son is doing Aerospace Engineering there (takes after his old man who's a Mechanical Engineer). I got a tour of the brand new Aerospace building. It's impressive and he still doesn't understand how lucky he is to be going there (he just started). The amount of stuff they have there is mind boggling. I want to go back to school there but they don't take old white guys, just my money. The only thing I see they do not have is an Autoclave (for making carbon fiber parts). Yet they told me there was one nearby that they use. They also have a wind tunnel. I do not understand why Aptera does not use the massive resources that place has. Yes, it costs money but the research and results you get are well worth it. They even have their own lab for autonomous vehicles. Not just cars but airplanes and helicopters. Even another vehicle that does advanced mapping for improving the data used for autonomous vehicles. I asked this, "Why have a wind tunnel when you can just use a computer program and CFD?". The answer was, "We like to test the actual product because CFD is good to get you in the ballpark but not accurate enough once you have that real product." I assume that Aptera knows better than they do and maybe just use CFD then call it a day.
Aptera has repeatedly shown they don't like too much exposure that could out the incompetence of the CEOs. Both CA and Fambro in the last week on separate occasions have referred to the battery as 42 kW vs 42 kWh.
@@artsmith103 - In this scenario, it would show the competence and efficiency. This is why these programs exist. R&D where it's cheap and you get first dibs on the tech. Example. My wife is a Chemist, the company she works for gives a certain amount of money to MIT for research. For the amount of money Aptera blew on that Vista plant would have given them at least 3 years of grad students busting their hump for Aptera and developing most of what they have done. With what my wife went to see (checking in on them) was the latest project of making better EV batteries with more efficiency and safety. Thus, they already have new tech that they can shoot a small missile through a battery pack and it still works. It works at a reduced rats but still functions. Will not catch on fire and even if wet, no problem. Obviously for the military but it's something that is on the horizon for consumer use. That's why when I see companies working with Universities for research and even the design, it shows they are run by competent CEO's. The ones that do not, better be funded really well.
@@billsmith5960 Definitely feeding the Universities is a smart way to go. I was on the far fringe of Optima Red Top battery development. Operated after shot was one of their claims.
@@artsmith103 Boulder sounds like a really nice place to study, thats way up in the mountains?........never been to usa.......but do remember seeing boulder and thinking what a nice place to live.
@@namenotshown9277 - It's a beautiful campus. If you like to hike or ride a bike, that's the place to go. The flatiron mountains overlook the campus. It's a very friendly cycling campus. Plus students get free use of the electric scooters and bikes. Plus all public transportation is free for them too. When we just went, we flew to Denver, took a bus to Boulder ($10). Then when there could get a day pass ($5/day) and ride wherever we wanted. We mostly walked and racked up about 35K steps per day.
A few things I find interesting. 1. They threw a vehicle into the wind tunnel that was not the one they were going to build. Thus, any information is garbage. Now they have to deal with a new body and heat exchangers that are not skin cooling. 2. People were all happy with seeing them in the wind tunnel and Aptera let it go by not being transparent at the time that it was for a photo op. I ask Aptera this, "What was it, a real test or photo op?" I know I'll never get an answer but worth asking. 3. They did build a rig for the rear wheel. This was to just allow the two rear load cells to get data. Those are to determine lift or downforce. Front does the same. The vehicle needs to be locked down (by locking the wheels) so you can produce the overall load on the vehicle. Then you can calculate the Cd. I want to see the raw numbers but that will never happen. 4. Smoke test is for show. Very little data comes from it today but non engineers love to see it. 5. No wiring for any data logging. If you were going to do it proper, you should see this (if you know where to look) but nothing hooked up. 6. Wind tunnels have a workshop to just make up things you need to hook up instrumentation or even that rear rig. They know the world is not perfect and at times you need to do this. They did get some data but not accurate at all. Why Aptera doesn't use wind tunnels that are located in NC is mind boggling. You have A2 (not rolling road), Aerodyn (rolling road and next to the A2) or Windshear. The first two are in Mooresville, NC and the other is in Concord, NC. They literally are for the automotive industry. Way closer than Italy and you can get the same data and spend that money right here in the US. While I'm at it. Why not show it on a K&C machine? Take a guess where there is one of those? If you guessed NC, you are right. Then there's the shaker rig. Same state and in the vicinity. This is basic vehicle dynamics engineering yet Aptera seems to just use simulations and run a day on the track. That's being cheap and does not give any quality data. I wish life in the real world was as easy in the Aptera world.
The reason given for going to Pininfarina was because Professor Morelli helped design that wind tunnel and they were claiming some sort of spiritual connection. This was after years of not giving him due credit for the Aptera shape.
@@aussieideasman8498 I think its about $500usd/hr approx for A2, pretty much anyone could afford it, defintely not money as part of the reason why we dont see wind tunnel testing......now why is that so?
This thread is 5 days ago, yet just popped into my phone as a new comment just now.....anyhow re-read it some good points made indeed. Whats a K&C machine? Postscript: looked it up, suspension testing machine, kinematics and compliance. Oh now its out expect to hear fambro using it, right up his alley, "we will shortly be doing some kinematics and compliance testing of our suspension components"....fanboys reaction " wow". Oh I should mention Jerry turned up in the "Pi2 achieves walking speed" milestone video , he was right in there doing stuff............go Jerry.
The walking speed video of Prototype Intent 2, it would have been interesting if they had shown the voltage/current at walking speed. Or even the current draw when wheel spinning in the air.....these are all good numbers to know, shame they dont think about what the technical folk want to see. Wheel spinning in the air will give you drivetrain losses value. Walking speed values on flat ground can use to prove/disprove solar max range, and I guess rolling resistance value too. But do they think about us!!! Shelfish ******
@@namenotshown9277 - When they are down with a full working one, they could do a rundown test. Chip Ganassi has one here in PA. It's the one that was a secret for many years but now it's well known. Just look up, Chip Ganassi Secret Tunnel. Racecar Engineering has a great article on it. Look on YT and local hikers were filming outside of it as they wondered what was going on in there.
I have just watched AOC's other recent video that shows Munro interviewing Fambro at Reuters. The first thing I want to debunk is the claim that the silly trike is impossible to flip, but more importantly that flipping is so rare that it is not worth discussing and is a diversion from the more common loss of directional control and running off road and into things. Since he said it was impossible, I will take a little time to discuss the trite matter. Reverse out of a steep driveway that is sharply curved to the right; have the camber well to the left; do it a bit too fast; have a decent sized pothole and a nearby bump on the inner wheel trajectory (RHS); and have no passenger and the remaining weight of the 500lb load limit sitting in the left rear corner of the EV. I bet it can flip. Better still - make the driver a featherweight and maximize a steel ball weight that you place in the RH corner. Then when it rolls to the left it will have greater inertia for tipping the silly trike. Now for why that exercise is trite: If you check road accident data for trikes you will discover that there are so few flips that the situation is insignificant. What you will find is that most are collisions with other vehicles, but you can discount those as being irrelevant. What you are interested in are the number of exits from the road due to directional loss and subsequently hitting trees, posts, buildings, etc. The main loss will be from tailspins, but understeering and slides also count. These matter, and are by far the danger for trikes that quads don't have to anywhere near the degree trikes have. I have noticed two things that indicate Aptera suffers badly in this regard. The first is how easily the rear end squeals when being driven slowly around bends. This indicates that it wouldn't take too much speed to break into a tailspin. The second is the numerous skidmarks going off the track in the video clip of the Beta tests at Chuckwalla. Now, it is possible that some other vehicles made those marks, but there's still the probability that Beta was losing directional control. The marks looked fresh and weather and time would have aged any made by other vehicles. Also, not even on the track, Beta lost control and damaged a front wheel on a curb. They later said this was an intentional test, but I know how much they lie.
There was a video on rich rebuilds of the electric threewheeler that went out of production recently in usa ( forget the name), he bought a few for cheap. Anyhow one of his friends does an absolutely crazy full throttle maneouvre and gets the trike doing some airtime on a front wheel that is very quite extraordinarily dangerous. Munro saying if he cant flip it no-one can, is quite telling about his ego-mania, which drives his yt chanel . He is an old guy and really it requires a young person with no regard for their own safety to do some real testing. I'm pretty sure if some scenarios its going to be extremely easy to flip, especially with weight in the back up so high, a highly cambered road, and some idiot doing maneouvres at full throttle, this thing will be damn dangerous is my prediction.
@@namenotshown9277 I still say worry about the directional loss and forget about rollovers. At least ditching the IWM's has helped that a lot, and PI.2 may turn out to be fine.
@@aussieideasman8498 Of course, all this talk about stability assumes lateral stability, which I have no problem with mostly. However, vertical stability is something I have bad feelings about. A rear-end collision tipping the whole car on its roof, and now the doors can't open. It's very light, though.
@@geoff5711also I notice they have to put a steel roll cage in, if my memory serves me correctly they were touting how strong it was, that the carbon fibre was strongest roof crush ever made, but now they are puting in a steel? roll cage for strength. I suspect they just thought carbon-fibre= super strong, but its strength is in tension ( no much in compression), and with chopped strand type carbon fibre, its loosing most of the tensile strength also. I also notice they never do the " hit the bink with a sledge hammer" trick they used to do with the fibreglass used in aptera mk1, theres a video of them hitting that really hard with a big heavy hammer. They are treating this new carbon fibre with kid gloves, does it crack easily is my thinking?
On June 10th 2024 the WSJ ran an article that included Aptera. In that article Chris Anthony referencing the Pininfarina wind tunnel stated “We didn’t have time to coordinate with them or talk about, you know, the special needs of a three-wheel vehicle,” Anthony said. “And certainly we didn’t write them a big check, so they didn’t have a lot of incentive to say, ‘Hey, let’s customize the wind tunnel for these guys.’” “But we got pretty pictures,” he said. The article puts it straight up as a chance to crank out another advertising video and nothing more, Aptera misled everyone in their July 2023 video claiming to have validated their design but we have Chris's own words clearly stating otherwise. They just cannot help themselves, the problem with people who mislead is they eventually mislead themselves.
nice to have some reference to a source, thats what is needed so any investigation into these guys at some stage can reference exactly what they have said in the past as evidence. Thanks for posting that, I remember hearing it but had no idea where it was said.
They wanted to say it was just a photo shoot because they didn't want people asking for results. It's obvious they saw the results and they were bad enough to hide them.
One of my concerns about aptera design is the connection points of binc to frame. Since the passengers are literally enclosed in the binc, if the binc were to detach from the frame, then those passengers are in for a hell of a ride. I have tried to find pics of the points where the binc and frame attach, and they appear to be bolt holes with raised lips moulded into the binc. The loads on these attachment points are going to be very large at times. The carbon fibre wont have much tensile strength due to being chopped strand type ( el cheap version of cf). It would be better to have the loads spread over large areas rather than concentrated on these attachment points. If a video I watched is correct and the cf smc has lower tensile strength than the aluminium on which it is attached, and the loads are highly concentrated in the attachment points, and there are a limited number of these attachment points.......I would think this is a disaster waiting to happen. Years of repetitive cycling of concentrated loads on these points will be an area of concern.........any testing of this done? Is this binc actually going to be safe or is it going to be a detachable binc going around a corner at 100mph 3 years down the track? Have they even considered this as a possibility? I have seen cracking before at attachment points just like these made out of moulded plastic........some might think i'm being un-necessarily negative, but I think they have a potential serious design flaw. ( my personel view only, for entertainment purposes only, not a expert )
When they first announced the change to CF people commented about corrosion being a problem when connected to metals. This is something I had never heard of, but like Bruce baby always pointed out - I'm not an engineer. If they are right, your concerns about weaknesses are even more worrying. Time will tell, but anyone who is willing to be a Guinea pig has rocks in their head.
@@aussieideasman8498 nope I've never heard of that one, the cf is in an epoxy resin ( or some form of resin) that shouldn't have any issues with water? If there is some carbon fibre not covered in resin it might act like a wick and soak up water, but I would think it wouldn't ingress into the cf structure. Not an expert either but would seem odd to me. Maybe water can sit inbetween the cf bink and the frame but once again I wouldn't think an issue. A bit of silicone would take car of that anyhow.
another long post yt didn't like, watered down regarding cd testing Once you understand what was actually done, you can see that by describing the nasa study in such a way that it seems that an actual wind tunnel test was done is I think, in a way brilliant( in a devlish way). The aptera directors will just refer to the nasa wind tunnel testing as, their "model" or " the aptera"..........nothing dishonest about that on the surface it all appears above board, and the trick was done, every one for years and years has thought there was a proper wind tunnel test done on a full scale model of aptera, and that those tests showed it had amazing aerodynamic properties...... Absolutely brilliant! ( my personel view only, for entertainment purposes only, not a expert )
I've been thinking about this video off and on. What if it turns out that the wind tunnel test showed that Aptera's body is only slightly better than Tesla's Model 3? They can't publish that number because it could adversely affect their attempts to secure funding.
Aptera has the aerodynamic boon only above about 35mph. In city driving, especially peak hour, there is jack-all advantage. On a side note, I must say I impress myself with this particular thumbnail, lol. You do know I fashion all my thumbnails myself? I don't have any fancy program to use, either.
I could write a book about these ideas. Aptera should have initially announced: New concept in transportation will nearly double EV miles/kWh, drag coefficient will be the lowest ever produced for consumer transportation, and onboard solar will double the range of smaller affordable battery for typical short commutes. All of that can still be true, they don't announce actual targets to the competition, and NDA have purpose not to reveal where they are in the process. But they did the opposite: announced higher unobtainable goals and use NDA to hide shortcomings.
The thumbnail is a good one. That is a good point about the aerodynamics only come into play above 35 miles-per-hour. In normal city traffic, the trike's only efficiency advantage over a Tesla Model 3 will be if they can keep the weight anywhere close to the 1700-1800 pounds that they claim. The Model 3 weighs 3900 pounds. I'd still much rather have the stability of 4 tires and the ability to seat up to five people over an unpainted two-seat trike with tacky-looking solar panels.
Just some musing: very old pictures of aptera 1 show same suspension design being used now, it was one of the first they came up with ( the front suspension), there are lots and very deteailed pics of early versions in an old public picture folder ( forget the name of the picture company but I linked info on it in aussies sight somewhere. Now if zaptera has all the patent and engineering, then it would seem they have fallen back on that old design, seems zaptera might have a claim on that engineering design also ( if they have patents on it, which I doubt), but they might be able to argue they own the engineering that was produced......long shot. The picture folder it was a picture storage company that everyone used to link pics to in the early days of internet, its now not used but old picture files are still there ( damn I cant remember of the url ). I did go through all the files and video recorded all the pictures, it would have taken fore-ever to download them all, that was quickest way to do it.
I have no idea what you are talking about. That Aptera started and run by two people that by chance had the same names with a vehicle of a similar design in the same city, means nothing. It was completely different. So never mention that other company again. That company was called Aptera, Inc. , this one is called Aptera Corp. As you can see not even close. Even though both are Delaware Corporations, that you just need to ignore.
The usually very short video by Aptera Motors has just landed and it's frankly pathetic. It's Steve Fambro showing a badly finished PI and raving on about it, while misdirecting to worker enthusiasm and leaving out so much of their failings you get a skewed peek at a dying company. It's worse when you read the comments, which looks very much like they have vetted a lot out so the overall gist is positive. I say this because most videos, including AOC, have begun to get a large ratio of disgruntled comments of late, yet the ratio is highly positive all of a sudden on this one. I bet a lot went straight to the 'don't show' file. They are like that. The mild negative one's they only let through (to appear to have not stripped out so many) have replies that they are raising the $60m and watch our video or read the SEC report. That message even looks like a lazy cut and paste more often than not. Check it out? Let's cut to the chase and observe what's wrong with the video? The silly trike is as half-baked as Beta was. It goes about jogging speed - Alpha's; Beta & Gamma all were full speed on first build - what gives? The occupants wear helmets when it can't go fast; hasn't left the carpark and is supposed to be impossible to flip. Fambro said it's the first PI - what about PI.1? Just because it can't move doesn't make it a Gamma. He called it production intent when it's not. It's that simple - it just isn't. He said it was doing tests, but we don't get any test results, as usual. We get people clapping. He said been working on it for months, but this was a desperate effort to make it only two months overdue and no apology given. He said EVERYTHING you see on it is production intent - made the point even more strongly. Sorry - that's out-an-out lying. A recent video has him saying some parts on PI.2 were not production intent but were near as practical identical. Changed his tune. Can't lie straight in bed. It's designed to be made in high volume: Not without a production line, and your TV rendition is all you have. There's nothing prototype about this vehicle: I can tell you categorically there's nothing production about it - just look at it for yourself. Who's he kidding? Virtually everything on it is ready for production: Virtually everything has no inventory; ergo, nothing is ready. Skipping some of his BS, why would you make it with wiring that can't go high-speed and then replace the wiring for speed? Doesn't he know you can drive a high-speed EV at low speed? They're crazy and wasteful at Aptera. How many more months before the energy and range measurements are released? He claims they are still making design changes, yet in a recent interview (caught on video) he said they were not doing anything more than just making the PI's as designed. Indeed, something about pencils down and laser focused on the build. Another about face from the liar. The comments were mostly responded to with simple thank you type remarks for all the ego strokers and any good questions weren't answered. They have reverted to saying production is back to the old line of get the money first and then add nine months, whereas in recent months Fambro has said they had the money set aside for building and testing all the PI's and even selling between 10 or 20 production trikes. That is one more backflip you all-forgiving fanboys will have to pretend you didn't hear. Get ready for years of being strung along still - this news is nothing to get excited about. They may even omit the October Update and save themselves reporting on how little USCG has raised. At the rate that's going it will be 2030 before they meet their target. Maybe 2040? lol Who would prefer me to make a video about this milestone event?
Came to tell your prior comment of blame failure on funding sounds spot on. I read the $60M comment pasted many times to read, Aptera has arrived, not enough funding to proceed. I read all 200 comments moments ago. I replied to Aptera misleading BS in a couple places asking them to clarify. This might be the day I'm banned from that channel. Should keep the screen shots for evidence in investment fraud case. Aptera said the trike will get 11,000 solar miles/yr. I hit them with all the facts that quickly add up to
@@artsmith103 I'm still saying may/june 25 before pi2 is completely finished. I cant even be bothered looking at the video, I can see from aussies run down its just the same bs. They got a vehicle going jogging speed is laughable, why would they celebrate that, its a complete embarrassment to the company. I dont think its worth a video.
@@artsmith103 yes I put up a post saying it was embarassing, a 140 million dollar mobility scooter, he says its not a prototype, he is nuts, of course its a prototype, they need it for testing....and a hell of a lot of testing.....who knows if its going to be stable at high speeds, so many unknowns its not funny.......anyhow I still think IPO is the real goal all this prototyping gets them a little bit closer to the pot of gold.
My final observation (you should all observe for yourselves) is where Fambro explains that production is going to start as late as 2026 contrary to his previous statements of by Q2 of 2025. They touted this 9 months after the money comes claim more than a year back, but in keeping with more than one story they always have, they have since claimed numerous times that the money for getting to limited production by Q2 was already held. This was not mentioned by Fambro and it looks very much like he's pretending he never said those things and is making excuses for yet another long delay. Do you recall Anthony in the last Aptera Update saying it is good to be counting in days and weeks rather than in months and years? Well, that's gone by-the-by with Fambro's latest prediction. He is talking about production in more than a year away - and that IF they get $60m by Q2 of 2025. Even the promise of the PI.2 being done has a two month count so far and is still unfinished.
You have a good memory, and I guess them just saying the same thing over and over helps. Sec needs to step in sooner rather than later and investigate these guys thoroughly, Your site is a good source for them to use.
@@namenotshown9277 At 71, I notice I forget many things within about a minute of thinking them, but for long-term memory I have always had a reasonable memory and still do. If I was serious about trolling Aptera I would have made a database of all relevant events, but that would involve a lot of work I am not prepared to do. I remember the events, but I can never remember the source material, and I have had many a five-minute search for some and given up.
@@aussieideasman8498 I've kept a bit of a file, but not comprehensive at all. Its funny but as I sometimes have to search back for info, quite often its aoc who has put up information that is quite damming......ironic
I put up 4 lengthy posts last night, none of which appeared.......damn yt. I'll try post again heres one in abbreviated form: aoc site video called Chris Anthony interview excerpts from Conversations with Joe at 5 50 details playdo model / pics/ to render / nasa cfd in his own words
where he says 'nurbs' model, its an early way to render 3d objects, so their pictures of a 3d playdo model, are sent to a guy who then renders a version on a computer that allows you to stretch lines using the mouse etc, to get nice smooth curves in 3d space. I would love to see the pictures of this early playdo model that he took......amazing to think that this relatively basic playdo model in the kitchen has given them the opportunity to say nasa wind tunnel testing has shown this car can achieve low cd value and all that funding in a sense has flowed from using the word "nasa" to give them credibility........but I think the reality is very very different. The chances of this render resembling closely the current model aptera are very low. Continuing all these years later to use this as credible data to lure investors ( my personel view only, for entertainment purposes only, not a expert )
I'm starting to see aussies point on pinnafarina, it does seem odd its all setup, obviously the tunnel is running, rear attached to load cel, why were there no results? I actually thought photo-opportunity from the beginning as thats how they roll....smoke and mirrors.....literally. I can now see that there might actually be some data that they didn't want to release, took me a while to cotton on to that one. The other issue is is it really stable? Have they in fact sorted out the up/down forces on the vehicle? I guess its possible that not only is the cd way off, since a full size has never been tested in wind tunnel there might be other issues have arisen. There can always be an unexpected result can come up. The up/down forces are supposed to balance out and be neutral ( according to morelli) but these guys are not following morellis shape, they have changed it for appearance, to make it look nice. Perhaps the balancing act that morelli worked out is a delicate balancing act............I guess we will never know. One issue is, since many other facets of apteras design/data have been 'faked' why would anyone believe they have also sorted out the balance of the vehicle at high speeds. The effects of crosswinds at high speeds. Does the front or rear lift at high speeds? All this very basic knowledge is essential for safety and they have no data on it apart from simulations.........worrying at the least. They really need to verify its stability, I guess doesn't matter really, cant see them ever producing any for sale anyhow. ( my personel view only, for entertainment purposes only, not a expert )
just spent a bit of time going over the aptera pinnafarina video, trying to zoom on 4k, cant make out any numbers ( apart from the biggest number is a 20 at top left middle screen) which might be wind speed in km/hr is my guess, everything else tried lots of tricks but cant read any of it. There is certainly some data there but cant read it.
There is a value in largish letters in centre of screen that you can see( down and to the right of the 20 value ( km/hr my guess)), I'm guessing that might be the cd, but I really cant make out any of the digits......they look like all zeroes but really it inconclusive. Someone with fancy video tools might be able to make out what they are, did my best on that one.
Another observation was Fambro saying China provides no competition for Aptera; talk about a head in the sand mentality! In the USA the government protects Aptera from Chinese EV's, so he is partially right - but he intends to sell this silly trike globally, and everywhere in the rest of the entire world Chinese EV's will take almost every potential Aptera sale from them.
Exactly, perhaps not in the US market, but any other market will be tough competition. Or another way to look at it is, since Aptera does not make a car, then of course Chinese EVs are not direct competition. Since it is a trike, it could be argued that it can do most things a car can do, only worse. I'll say this, whatever Chinese firm built my newest e-bike did a fantastic job. The quality of it has exceeded my expectations.
@@aussieideasman8498 the chinese have been leaders in electric transport for a very long time, they have been using three wheel electric trikes large and small for daily transport and for goods transport before aptera was concieved. Electric scooter/motorbike style have been daily transportation for millions for probably two decades now. The chinese have no need for aerodynamics, local transportation is the focus, but as far as electric threewheelers they are simply everywhere and have been for a long long time. I dont think people realise just how advanced china is. It depends on how you look at it, electric threewheelers are simply everywhere over there, aerodynamic threewheelers there is no need for them.
Aptera, I have an idea of what you can do to raise funding. Please start on November, 5. This is because you can constantly text, call and go to peoples front door to ask for donations. It must work and thus this is a way to constantly badger people non stop where they will break down and just give you what you want. Regards, BS
rich rebuilds chanel video 3 months ago called I Bought 3 of The Most Fun EV Prototypes That We May Never See Again at 10 30 you see a guy doing some crazy driving to test stability thats the sort of driving needed to test stability and even more undulating/hilly surface or cambered road is needed. Its arcimotor vehicle and you can see just how dangerous it can be once he gets a front wheel lifted off the ground this is response to munro saying if he cant tip the aptera no one can, his driving was tame compared to this guy
I’m not sure everyone was aware, but the moose test was heavily (literally) rigged via 2 large weight stacks in the front of the vehicle. To make sure you see what I’m talking about, you can not only see these outboard of the radiator in the moose video, but they actually show them changing the stacks in their Brake Test video. To be clear, they fabricated the mounts and installed them, cut the plates and installed those, and the combined weight gave the Beta a huge forward CG shift NOT remotely representative of their eventual product. Specifically, there is nothing that will weigh that much “up there” in the eventual vehicle that the weight stacks represent, and you know the balance of the vehicle was incomplete/on the light end of the scale. So on “what they show”, this one is #1 on my blatant lie/misrepresentation list. And like the USCG data, it’s right out in front of fans who chose to ignore their lying eyes.
i would really like to see sandy munro in a pi vehicle with these guys driving it trying to roll it over.......roll over guarenteed You can see in the video ( drone view) the camber in the road ( track) plays a large roll in derailing stability.
a video called polaris slingshot rollover shows what too expect from aptera without weights in the front and another called Polaris Slingshot flips on Hwy 160 shows what to expect
maybe a video of pi2 moving would be good, I think alot of folks here will have comments, I know I said opposite when you asked if you should make one. sorry about that chief ( in maxwell smart accent)
@@aussieideasman8498 You know you like it. Especially when he says "awesome" over and over again. I just wish they would have one of your fellow Australians do the videos. You know, Leigh Diffey. He loves to use the phrase "Argy Bargy" over and over again.
at 48sec you can see lots of cable ties on the very long charge cables, I think he specifically said no cable ties in this model..........seems he's wrong
@@artsmith103 - Camber must be fine as they designed the whole thing on CAD. I'm a bit suprised at the amount of ground clearance it has. The ride height is a bit much. I'm going to guess it has to do with the bodywork that will be attached and that makes it look lower. On a regular car, the outside seams are typically the lowest part of the car. Since Aptera only has about 50% of the bodywork on it, who knows what will work. Looks like two of the guys there are not Aptera employees buy probably from KW (or a KW dealer) doing the ride height. Because they are just using a tape measure. If they really were on their A-Game, they would have shock pots and a data system (i.e. AIM, Motec, Bosch etc) to just log this. Plus they make infrared sensors for ride height that can be logged. Even low buck race teams have this. Cripes, I have about 10 pots in my garage. That vehicle should be wired to the hilt with sensors. Yet nothing as simple as a wheel speed sensor on each wheel.
If I was running Aptera, I'd only use people from local Universities or Colleges and do unpaid interns for the media. It is way cheaper and you have a constant flux of new talent that just want to use it as a resume builder.
Also, the body shape is different as you can see the tail section is longer. So who knows what other dimensions have changed. Then let's not forget those axles. I was told by the superfans that the hub motor was the best because you didn't have losses in aero from the axles and the CV joints also create inefficiencies too. Today, all of that has been erased from their memory. Remember, skin cooling will be out soon, not just for the first few. Speaking about that, Aptera has an old video with a completely different skin cooling technique they were pushing around 2021.
@@artsmith103 So how come visitors like the recent Viking don't notice? They must do, but decide to lie along with them. It's the pull of the mighty dollar and no ethics.
@@aussieideasman8498 Notice what? The doors are fun, solar dreams are fun, knock open door is fun, and all the shortcomings are blamed on prototype staus.
AOC has come out with 'Aptera PI2 is now driveable!' And it should read 'Aptera PI2 is PROBABLY now driveable!' because he kept saying that and you never saw it move. In fact, the photo caption said it was going through the start checklist and didn't even claim that it was driven. In fact, it didn't claim it was actually started. Click bait at its finest from the cretin. Then the cretin raves on about pilots and surgeons doing checklists as if the silly trike was a plane or an operating theatre, lol! This is a simple EV, with the emphasis on simple. Nobody has startup procedures and nobody does checklists. My EV has a start button. When that's pressed I know when I put it in drive and press the accelerator pedal it will move because the screen comes alive. Some EV's (Volvo) have done away with the start button and all you do is sit in the correct seat for the screen to light up. You still have do select 'drive' or 'reverse'. in past videos where Gamma has overheated Chris has blamed the incorrect start sequence for the problem. What on earth is that sequence, and how can you get it wrong and still move? Utter nonsense, and another example of his lying. That looked like a long list of tasks on the sheet he was following, but my father was a pilot and every time I flew with him he would start the checklist with a walk-around. The in-cockpit stage was the last phase. Now, someone tell me if that structure in the top right of the picture isn't the frunk lid up? It looks like it is to me, and nobody drives their EV with that up. No pilot starts the in-cabin checks without having put it down in the walk-around. This looks like another staging prank. I won't believe the silly trike can drive until I see more concrete evidence. You gullible fanboys are already making "great news" comments on the AOC video and I know you deceive others - you just want to protect your investment. It's evil; shame on you all - most of all the cretin.
So the Pi2 is complete! I knew it and now it's validated and we are ready for production! Deliveries start in two months. Aptera is done with R&D and testing. I am happy and here we go! Go Aptera GO!
@@JoeBManco Battery has to be LE size or it's not even a PI. Judging by the laptop for a screen and other clues, this piece of crap doesn't qualify as it is. It reminds me of the Beta all over again. They said up to 12 of those, and at PI.2 we're probably in for another lie like that one.
Maybe I should watch the cretin's video. I'm so done with him (and Hillbilly Bill) that I don't even want him to have my one-time view. Hopefully you will review it instead. As for what is and is not considered production intent, the phrase has lost all meaning with Aptera since we don't know what parts they actually used for PI2. They said it wouldn't be a complete trike, so it doesn't necessarily need all of the parts that a production vehicle is supposed to have. If Aptera does not show this trike driving from fully charged to fully discharged (without overheating) and it gets somewhere close to 400 miles, then we know another deception has taken place.
It had to have been high speed. They had race seats, 6 pt harnesses and helmets on. I am upset that one of them had an open face helmet and neither had a HANS device. If you are going to go all out, then do it right. I also did not see a fire system and no roll bar padding. This is a gross disregard for Aptera safety. It would not even pass an SCCA regional tech. So, Aptera needs to be called out on this or someone will die! Half baked safety is worse than none at all.
@@billsmith5960 lets say hypothetically, they do some really long hard testing on bumpy roads, the binc cracks and detaches at high speed.......would the fanboys even take any notice?
@@namenotshown9277 - Nobody will notice because Aptera will never reveal something like that. Remember, Aptera is the most transparent company ever..............when it comes to just good news.
Munro has put out a video on aptera, I watched first 5 mins, and couldn't stand the bs. C.Anthony saying fambro modelled the aerodynamics on computer and it was some sort of first.......bs........morelli did it and they have mentioned this before. Then fambro starts up on some airline he cant name about solar on airport tugs.......he cant mention the airline because there is no deal with any airline.....just looking for another money spinner. One tug that may/maynot be associated with fambro/anthony that has flat solar cells......more bs. I stopped watching after that. Will go back and watch where munro shows some of the parts on benches.........the bs is so annoying once you know they are lying, how can they just say it over and over and know its not true....the 40 miles from solar comes up again.........they have some brain injury where they just repeat the same thing over and over?
I watched the whole 40 mins before I had to go out for a 50th wedding anniverary of friends. Great night and better than working on the roast of the Ninje I am rushing through. That prevents me from doing a video on the Munro garbage. Most of the parts are on picnic tables and he doesn't notice this glaring fact? It's a con job and he's in on it.
Munro the cost saving expert suggests to 3d print the frame out of titanium...... I think you have your answer right there on this guys true capabilities......he is a youtuber who does teardowns, trying to make out he is production expert because he has torn down some vehicles and was a tool maker at ford donkeys years ago. I really have to use one of aussies terms: a snake oil salesman selling snake oil for two aptera snake oil salesman........ If Sandy munro had put money into aptera he would be saying over and over how much he invested.........I've invested x dollars into aptera......he was paid partly in shares is my guess........he wouldn't put a cent into these guys. There are just so many lies to pick from in this video, example: fambro says this vehicle will never have an interior its a test vehicle.......a couple of days ago he said it was 100% production intent....cant keep track of his own lies........must be hard keeping this up. He says its not protoytpe also a couple of days ago........but they have all this testing to do, I think in a way they are back to square one, they have a new prototype that they have probably years of testing to do on it, if they want to know its safety and capabilities and handling and reliability............so far from production its not funny. Its one hell of a prototype, if they ever finish it before running out of money, will they even put solar on this one? No point in rushing the solar, it will just show how dishonest their predictions are, better just hold off on that one, they just want to keep saying 40 miles of range for as long as they possibly can as it brings in the dollars ( average range of usa drives, supposed to be around 40 miles, well it was a long time ago when they adpoted this lie, thats probably not even the case now). C. Anthony also saying 60 to 70% of energy is used lost pushing through the wind, he has been starting off with that little nutmeg so much now, he doesn't even qualify what he is talking about, at what speeds, what vehicle type etc, its just a sweeping statement without detail that he falls back on.
@@namenotshown9277 The titanium 3D print idea was ridiculous. That amount of titanium would cost a fortune and the print method would weaken the frame. What I got out of his lying was twice he said he hadn't seen something when he had. But maybe he wasn't lying - was he forgetting? A real possibility. Notice you have nobody refute your comments? That's an indication you fellow trolls are dead right. You may be saving people from financial loss with your entertaining remarks, and at the least are just giving room for thought. Nothing wrong with that. Every coin must have two sides.
I have just watched the Aptera portion of Ten news and Nikki is deceiving with her carefully contrived report on the PI.2 drive. It's a shame I have the new cretin that is the Ninje to deal with.
@@aussieideasman8498 ten news australia? Another interesting bit of theatre was right at the end, munro speculates on how much it would cost a 'normal' company to build the aptera....he muses over it, silence, he thinks, he looks around in his thoughts, he gives a slight smirk to fambro.........he then declares it would take 500 oto 600 million to do this and how much have you done it for......C.Athony answers.......only 100 million! Munros acting on coming up with this number ( he has said before) apparently on the spot after careful deliberation is quite entertaining........like my posts for entertainment only. Well lets see about that number: first aptera version 70 million raised according to fambro/anthony ( I forget which one said that number recently), very nice. Aptera mk2 140 million raised, that sums up to 210 million. The first version was of course a large part of the development.
Since it moves, it's ready to go. Now just build it. Major milestone.
I noticed a few things:
1. Lots of zip ties
2. Looks like people building a street rod or dirt track car. It's pretty basic and that switch panel and key E-Stop
3. Why do they need to be wearing helmets and a 6 pt harness? Just cruising around the parking lot.
4. I see they have KW dampers on it and the rear has an external reservoir.
5. No wheel speed sensors
6. No heat exchangers hooked up
7. A few suits looking around.
8. The most people I have ever seen in the factory, yet looks like 5 people doing the actual work.
9. It's a prototype, not what they intend to build.
10. No sign of the other Pi's
The radiator is on leading edge of passenger side. About 1 ft^2 as I expected. I'm no auto engineer, enjoy your comments.
@@artsmith103 - Correct. Plus you'll see the temp sensor (that's the blue thing). The fittings are at the bottom and there's nothing attached to them. On a previous video, it shows the fan attached to the heat exchanger.
I'm sorry that I call them heat exchangers but in the world of engineering, we just use the term heat exchanger. No matter if it's a radiator, condenser, evaporator or cooler. All do the same thing. Plus, air is considered a fluid too. Sounds odd, but it makes sense when doing calculations.
For example, a radiator has two fluids. One is water and the other is air. You exchange the heat from one to the other. You can't cheat physics, so it's not hard to figure out.
I see it as this video from Aptera was just another dog and pony show as they are required to do this as the funding vs fundraising is not balanced.
@billsmith5960 I have a PE license in ChE ;-)
@@artsmith103 How wil the rediator work when the covers are on? Will they put a hole in front?
on #10 - no sign of five other old prototypes driving with it - any canibalized?
Also, I was just at the University of Colorado Boulder. My son is doing Aerospace Engineering there (takes after his old man who's a Mechanical Engineer). I got a tour of the brand new Aerospace building. It's impressive and he still doesn't understand how lucky he is to be going there (he just started). The amount of stuff they have there is mind boggling. I want to go back to school there but they don't take old white guys, just my money. The only thing I see they do not have is an Autoclave (for making carbon fiber parts). Yet they told me there was one nearby that they use. They also have a wind tunnel.
I do not understand why Aptera does not use the massive resources that place has. Yes, it costs money but the research and results you get are well worth it. They even have their own lab for autonomous vehicles. Not just cars but airplanes and helicopters. Even another vehicle that does advanced mapping for improving the data used for autonomous vehicles.
I asked this, "Why have a wind tunnel when you can just use a computer program and CFD?". The answer was, "We like to test the actual product because CFD is good to get you in the ballpark but not accurate enough once you have that real product." I assume that Aptera knows better than they do and maybe just use CFD then call it a day.
Aptera has repeatedly shown they don't like too much exposure that could out the incompetence of the CEOs. Both CA and Fambro in the last week on separate occasions have referred to the battery as 42 kW vs 42 kWh.
@@artsmith103 - In this scenario, it would show the competence and efficiency. This is why these programs exist. R&D where it's cheap and you get first dibs on the tech.
Example. My wife is a Chemist, the company she works for gives a certain amount of money to MIT for research. For the amount of money Aptera blew on that Vista plant would have given them at least 3 years of grad students busting their hump for Aptera and developing most of what they have done.
With what my wife went to see (checking in on them) was the latest project of making better EV batteries with more efficiency and safety. Thus, they already have new tech that they can shoot a small missile through a battery pack and it still works. It works at a reduced rats but still functions. Will not catch on fire and even if wet, no problem. Obviously for the military but it's something that is on the horizon for consumer use.
That's why when I see companies working with Universities for research and even the design, it shows they are run by competent CEO's. The ones that do not, better be funded really well.
@@billsmith5960 Definitely feeding the Universities is a smart way to go. I was on the far fringe of Optima Red Top battery development. Operated after shot was one of their claims.
@@artsmith103 Boulder sounds like a really nice place to study, thats way up in the mountains?........never been to usa.......but do remember seeing boulder and thinking what a nice place to live.
@@namenotshown9277 - It's a beautiful campus. If you like to hike or ride a bike, that's the place to go. The flatiron mountains overlook the campus. It's a very friendly cycling campus. Plus students get free use of the electric scooters and bikes. Plus all public transportation is free for them too.
When we just went, we flew to Denver, took a bus to Boulder ($10). Then when there could get a day pass ($5/day) and ride wherever we wanted. We mostly walked and racked up about 35K steps per day.
A few things I find interesting.
1. They threw a vehicle into the wind tunnel that was not the one they were going to build. Thus, any information is garbage. Now they have to deal with a new body and heat exchangers that are not skin cooling.
2. People were all happy with seeing them in the wind tunnel and Aptera let it go by not being transparent at the time that it was for a photo op. I ask Aptera this, "What was it, a real test or photo op?" I know I'll never get an answer but worth asking.
3. They did build a rig for the rear wheel. This was to just allow the two rear load cells to get data. Those are to determine lift or downforce. Front does the same. The vehicle needs to be locked down (by locking the wheels) so you can produce the overall load on the vehicle. Then you can calculate the Cd. I want to see the raw numbers but that will never happen.
4. Smoke test is for show. Very little data comes from it today but non engineers love to see it.
5. No wiring for any data logging. If you were going to do it proper, you should see this (if you know where to look) but nothing hooked up.
6. Wind tunnels have a workshop to just make up things you need to hook up instrumentation or even that rear rig. They know the world is not perfect and at times you need to do this.
They did get some data but not accurate at all. Why Aptera doesn't use wind tunnels that are located in NC is mind boggling. You have A2 (not rolling road), Aerodyn (rolling road and next to the A2) or Windshear. The first two are in Mooresville, NC and the other is in Concord, NC. They literally are for the automotive industry. Way closer than Italy and you can get the same data and spend that money right here in the US.
While I'm at it. Why not show it on a K&C machine? Take a guess where there is one of those? If you guessed NC, you are right. Then there's the shaker rig. Same state and in the vicinity. This is basic vehicle dynamics engineering yet Aptera seems to just use simulations and run a day on the track. That's being cheap and does not give any quality data. I wish life in the real world was as easy in the Aptera world.
The reason given for going to Pininfarina was because Professor Morelli helped design that wind tunnel and they were claiming some sort of spiritual connection. This was after years of not giving him due credit for the Aptera shape.
@@aussieideasman8498 I think its about $500usd/hr approx for A2,
pretty much anyone could afford it, defintely not money as part of the reason why we dont see wind tunnel testing......now why is that so?
This thread is 5 days ago, yet just popped into my phone as a new comment just now.....anyhow re-read it some good points made indeed.
Whats a K&C machine? Postscript: looked it up, suspension testing machine, kinematics and compliance. Oh now its out expect to hear fambro using it, right up his alley, "we will shortly be doing some kinematics and compliance testing of our suspension components"....fanboys reaction " wow".
Oh I should mention Jerry turned up in the "Pi2 achieves walking speed" milestone video , he was right in there doing stuff............go Jerry.
The walking speed video of Prototype Intent 2, it would have been interesting if they had shown the voltage/current at walking speed.
Or even the current draw when wheel spinning in the air.....these are all good numbers to know, shame they dont think about what the technical folk want to see. Wheel spinning in the air will give you drivetrain losses value. Walking speed values on flat ground can use to prove/disprove solar max range, and I guess rolling resistance value too.
But do they think about us!!! Shelfish ******
@@namenotshown9277 - When they are down with a full working one, they could do a rundown test. Chip Ganassi has one here in PA. It's the one that was a secret for many years but now it's well known. Just look up, Chip Ganassi Secret Tunnel. Racecar Engineering has a great article on it. Look on YT and local hikers were filming outside of it as they wondered what was going on in there.
I have just watched AOC's other recent video that shows Munro interviewing Fambro at Reuters. The first thing I want to debunk is the claim that the silly trike is impossible to flip, but more importantly that flipping is so rare that it is not worth discussing and is a diversion from the more common loss of directional control and running off road and into things.
Since he said it was impossible, I will take a little time to discuss the trite matter. Reverse out of a steep driveway that is sharply curved to the right; have the camber well to the left; do it a bit too fast; have a decent sized pothole and a nearby bump on the inner wheel trajectory (RHS); and have no passenger and the remaining weight of the 500lb load limit sitting in the left rear corner of the EV. I bet it can flip. Better still - make the driver a featherweight and maximize a steel ball weight that you place in the RH corner. Then when it rolls to the left it will have greater inertia for tipping the silly trike.
Now for why that exercise is trite: If you check road accident data for trikes you will discover that there are so few flips that the situation is insignificant. What you will find is that most are collisions with other vehicles, but you can discount those as being irrelevant. What you are interested in are the number of exits from the road due to directional loss and subsequently hitting trees, posts, buildings, etc. The main loss will be from tailspins, but understeering and slides also count. These matter, and are by far the danger for trikes that quads don't have to anywhere near the degree trikes have.
I have noticed two things that indicate Aptera suffers badly in this regard. The first is how easily the rear end squeals when being driven slowly around bends. This indicates that it wouldn't take too much speed to break into a tailspin. The second is the numerous skidmarks going off the track in the video clip of the Beta tests at Chuckwalla. Now, it is possible that some other vehicles made those marks, but there's still the probability that Beta was losing directional control. The marks looked fresh and weather and time would have aged any made by other vehicles. Also, not even on the track, Beta lost control and damaged a front wheel on a curb. They later said this was an intentional test, but I know how much they lie.
There was a video on rich rebuilds of the electric threewheeler that went out of production recently in usa ( forget the name), he bought a few for cheap. Anyhow one of his friends does an absolutely crazy full throttle maneouvre and gets the trike doing some airtime on a front wheel that is very quite extraordinarily dangerous.
Munro saying if he cant flip it no-one can, is quite telling about his ego-mania, which drives his yt chanel . He is an old guy and really it requires a young person with no regard for their own safety to do some real testing. I'm pretty sure if some scenarios its going to be extremely easy to flip, especially with weight in the back up so high, a highly cambered road, and some idiot doing maneouvres at full throttle, this thing will be damn dangerous is my prediction.
@@namenotshown9277 I still say worry about the directional loss and forget about rollovers. At least ditching the IWM's has helped that a lot, and PI.2 may turn out to be fine.
@@aussieideasman8498 Of course, all this talk about stability assumes lateral stability, which I have no problem with mostly.
However, vertical stability is something I have bad feelings about. A rear-end collision tipping the whole car on its roof, and now the doors can't open. It's very light, though.
@@geoff5711also I notice they have to put a steel roll cage in, if my memory serves me correctly they were touting how strong it was, that the carbon fibre was strongest roof crush ever made, but now they are puting in a steel? roll cage for strength. I suspect they just thought carbon-fibre= super strong, but its strength is in tension ( no much in compression), and with chopped strand type carbon fibre, its loosing most of the tensile strength also. I also notice they never do the " hit the bink with a sledge hammer" trick they used to do with the fibreglass used in aptera mk1, theres a video of them hitting that really hard with a big heavy hammer.
They are treating this new carbon fibre with kid gloves, does it crack easily is my thinking?
On June 10th 2024 the WSJ ran an article that included Aptera. In that article Chris Anthony referencing the Pininfarina wind tunnel stated “We didn’t have time to coordinate with them or talk about, you know, the special needs of a three-wheel vehicle,” Anthony said. “And certainly we didn’t write them a big check, so they didn’t have a lot of incentive to say, ‘Hey, let’s customize the wind tunnel for these guys.’” “But we got pretty pictures,” he said. The article puts it straight up as a chance to crank out another advertising video and nothing more, Aptera misled everyone in their July 2023 video claiming to have validated their design but we have Chris's own words clearly stating otherwise. They just cannot help themselves, the problem with people who mislead is they eventually mislead themselves.
nice to have some reference to a source, thats what is needed so any investigation into these guys at some stage can reference exactly what they have said in the past as evidence. Thanks for posting that, I remember hearing it but had no idea where it was said.
They wanted to say it was just a photo shoot because they didn't want people asking for results. It's obvious they saw the results and they were bad enough to hide them.
One of my concerns about aptera design is the connection points of binc to frame. Since the passengers are literally enclosed in the binc, if the binc were to detach from the frame, then those passengers are in for a hell of a ride.
I have tried to find pics of the points where the binc and frame attach, and they appear to be bolt holes with raised lips moulded into the binc. The loads on these attachment points are going to be very large at times. The carbon fibre wont have much tensile strength due to being chopped strand type ( el cheap version of cf). It would be better to have the loads spread over large areas rather than concentrated on these attachment points.
If a video I watched is correct and the cf smc has lower tensile strength than the aluminium on which it is attached, and the loads are highly concentrated in the attachment points, and there are a limited number of these attachment points.......I would think this is a disaster waiting to happen. Years of repetitive cycling of concentrated loads on these points will be an area of concern.........any testing of this done? Is this binc actually going to be safe or is it going to be a detachable binc going around a corner at 100mph 3 years down the track?
Have they even considered this as a possibility? I have seen cracking before at attachment points just like these made out of moulded plastic........some might think i'm being un-necessarily negative, but I think they have a potential serious design flaw.
( my personel view only, for entertainment purposes only, not a expert )
When they first announced the change to CF people commented about corrosion being a problem when connected to metals. This is something I had never heard of, but like Bruce baby always pointed out - I'm not an engineer. If they are right, your concerns about weaknesses are even more worrying. Time will tell, but anyone who is willing to be a Guinea pig has rocks in their head.
@@aussieideasman8498 nope I've never heard of that one, the cf is in an epoxy resin ( or some form of resin) that shouldn't have any issues with water? If there is some carbon fibre not covered in resin it might act like a wick and soak up water, but I would think it wouldn't ingress into the cf structure. Not an expert either but would seem odd to me.
Maybe water can sit inbetween the cf bink and the frame but once again I wouldn't think an issue. A bit of silicone would take car of that anyhow.
@@namenotshown9277 If it happens, it happens. Something to keep an eye on.
At 1 28 in aptera vid of first wheel spin, how did they get her in there?
no takers, its a long way up.
another long post yt didn't like, watered down regarding cd testing
Once you understand what was actually done, you can see that by describing the nasa study in such a way that it seems that an actual wind tunnel test was done is I think, in a way brilliant( in a devlish way). The aptera directors will just refer to the nasa wind tunnel testing as, their "model" or " the aptera"..........nothing dishonest about that on the surface it all appears above board, and the trick was done, every one for years and years has thought there was a proper wind tunnel test done on a full scale model of aptera, and that those tests showed it had amazing aerodynamic properties......
Absolutely brilliant!
( my personel view only, for entertainment purposes only, not a expert )
I've been thinking about this video off and on. What if it turns out that the wind tunnel test showed that Aptera's body is only slightly better than Tesla's Model 3? They can't publish that number because it could adversely affect their attempts to secure funding.
Aptera has the aerodynamic boon only above about 35mph. In city driving, especially peak hour, there is jack-all advantage. On a side note, I must say I impress myself with this particular thumbnail, lol. You do know I fashion all my thumbnails myself? I don't have any fancy program to use, either.
I could write a book about these ideas.
Aptera should have initially announced: New concept in transportation will nearly double EV miles/kWh, drag coefficient will be the lowest ever produced for consumer transportation, and onboard solar will double the range of smaller affordable battery for typical short commutes. All of that can still be true, they don't announce actual targets to the competition, and NDA have purpose not to reveal where they are in the process. But they did the opposite: announced higher unobtainable goals and use NDA to hide shortcomings.
The thumbnail is a good one. That is a good point about the aerodynamics only come into play above 35 miles-per-hour. In normal city traffic, the trike's only efficiency advantage over a Tesla Model 3 will be if they can keep the weight anywhere close to the 1700-1800 pounds that they claim. The Model 3 weighs 3900 pounds. I'd still much rather have the stability of 4 tires and the ability to seat up to five people over an unpainted two-seat trike with tacky-looking solar panels.
@@JoeBManco And weight in city traffic isn't that big an issue with good regenerative braking.
Art, it does make me wonder just how far off the real numbers will be. The battery and solar range just don't seem obtainable with today's technology.
Just some musing: very old pictures of aptera 1 show same suspension design being used now, it was one of the first they came up with ( the front suspension), there are lots and very deteailed pics of early versions in an old public picture folder ( forget the name of the picture company but I linked info on it in aussies sight somewhere. Now if zaptera has all the patent and engineering, then it would seem they have fallen back on that old design, seems zaptera might have a claim on that engineering design also ( if they have patents on it, which I doubt), but they might be able to argue they own the engineering that was produced......long shot.
The picture folder it was a picture storage company that everyone used to link pics to in the early days of internet, its now not used but old picture files are still there ( damn I cant remember of the url ). I did go through all the files and video recorded all the pictures, it would have taken fore-ever to download them all, that was quickest way to do it.
I have no idea what you are talking about. That Aptera started and run by two people that by chance had the same names with a vehicle of a similar design in the same city, means nothing. It was completely different. So never mention that other company again. That company was called Aptera, Inc. , this one is called Aptera Corp. As you can see not even close. Even though both are Delaware Corporations, that you just need to ignore.
@@billsmith5960 done
@@billsmith5960 ok consider i done, it was called flickr.. fambro handle
The usually very short video by Aptera Motors has just landed and it's frankly pathetic. It's Steve Fambro showing a badly finished PI and raving on about it, while misdirecting to worker enthusiasm and leaving out so much of their failings you get a skewed peek at a dying company. It's worse when you read the comments, which looks very much like they have vetted a lot out so the overall gist is positive. I say this because most videos, including AOC, have begun to get a large ratio of disgruntled comments of late, yet the ratio is highly positive all of a sudden on this one. I bet a lot went straight to the 'don't show' file. They are like that. The mild negative one's they only let through (to appear to have not stripped out so many) have replies that they are raising the $60m and watch our video or read the SEC report. That message even looks like a lazy cut and paste more often than not. Check it out?
Let's cut to the chase and observe what's wrong with the video?
The silly trike is as half-baked as Beta was.
It goes about jogging speed - Alpha's; Beta & Gamma all were full speed on first build - what gives?
The occupants wear helmets when it can't go fast; hasn't left the carpark and is supposed to be impossible to flip.
Fambro said it's the first PI - what about PI.1? Just because it can't move doesn't make it a Gamma.
He called it production intent when it's not. It's that simple - it just isn't.
He said it was doing tests, but we don't get any test results, as usual. We get people clapping.
He said been working on it for months, but this was a desperate effort to make it only two months overdue and no apology given.
He said EVERYTHING you see on it is production intent - made the point even more strongly. Sorry - that's out-an-out lying. A recent video has him saying some parts on PI.2 were not production intent but were near as practical identical. Changed his tune. Can't lie straight in bed.
It's designed to be made in high volume: Not without a production line, and your TV rendition is all you have.
There's nothing prototype about this vehicle: I can tell you categorically there's nothing production about it - just look at it for yourself. Who's he kidding?
Virtually everything on it is ready for production: Virtually everything has no inventory; ergo, nothing is ready.
Skipping some of his BS, why would you make it with wiring that can't go high-speed and then replace the wiring for speed? Doesn't he know you can drive a high-speed EV at low speed? They're crazy and wasteful at Aptera.
How many more months before the energy and range measurements are released?
He claims they are still making design changes, yet in a recent interview (caught on video) he said they were not doing anything more than just making the PI's as designed. Indeed, something about pencils down and laser focused on the build. Another about face from the liar.
The comments were mostly responded to with simple thank you type remarks for all the ego strokers and any good questions weren't answered. They have reverted to saying production is back to the old line of get the money first and then add nine months, whereas in recent months Fambro has said they had the money set aside for building and testing all the PI's and even selling between 10 or 20 production trikes. That is one more backflip you all-forgiving fanboys will have to pretend you didn't hear. Get ready for years of being strung along still - this news is nothing to get excited about. They may even omit the October Update and save themselves reporting on how little USCG has raised. At the rate that's going it will be 2030 before they meet their target. Maybe 2040? lol
Who would prefer me to make a video about this milestone event?
Came to tell your prior comment of blame failure on funding sounds spot on. I read the $60M comment pasted many times to read, Aptera has arrived, not enough funding to proceed.
I read all 200 comments moments ago. I replied to Aptera misleading BS in a couple places asking them to clarify. This might be the day I'm banned from that channel. Should keep the screen shots for evidence in investment fraud case. Aptera said the trike will get 11,000 solar miles/yr. I hit them with all the facts that quickly add up to
@@artsmith103 I'm still saying may/june 25 before pi2 is completely finished. I cant even be bothered looking at the video, I can see from aussies run down its just the same bs. They got a vehicle going jogging speed is laughable, why would they celebrate that, its a complete embarrassment to the company. I dont think its worth a video.
@namenotshown9277 I think the dog and pony show is to try to salvage more money out of USCG.
@@artsmith103 yes I put up a post saying it was embarassing, a 140 million dollar mobility scooter, he says its not a prototype, he is nuts, of course its a prototype, they need it for testing....and a hell of a lot of testing.....who knows if its going to be stable at high speeds, so many unknowns its not funny.......anyhow I still think IPO is the real goal all this prototyping gets them a little bit closer to the pot of gold.
@@namenotshown9277 And a little more USCG money gets them closer to IPO.
My final observation (you should all observe for yourselves) is where Fambro explains that production is going to start as late as 2026 contrary to his previous statements of by Q2 of 2025. They touted this 9 months after the money comes claim more than a year back, but in keeping with more than one story they always have, they have since claimed numerous times that the money for getting to limited production by Q2 was already held. This was not mentioned by Fambro and it looks very much like he's pretending he never said those things and is making excuses for yet another long delay. Do you recall Anthony in the last Aptera Update saying it is good to be counting in days and weeks rather than in months and years? Well, that's gone by-the-by with Fambro's latest prediction. He is talking about production in more than a year away - and that IF they get $60m by Q2 of 2025. Even the promise of the PI.2 being done has a two month count so far and is still unfinished.
You have a good memory, and I guess them just saying the same thing over and over helps. Sec needs to step in sooner rather than later and investigate these guys thoroughly, Your site is a good source for them to use.
@@namenotshown9277 At 71, I notice I forget many things within about a minute of thinking them, but for long-term memory I have always had a reasonable memory and still do. If I was serious about trolling Aptera I would have made a database of all relevant events, but that would involve a lot of work I am not prepared to do. I remember the events, but I can never remember the source material, and I have had many a five-minute search for some and given up.
@@aussieideasman8498 I've kept a bit of a file, but not comprehensive at all. Its funny but as I sometimes have to search back for info, quite often its aoc who has put up information that is quite damming......ironic
I put up 4 lengthy posts last night, none of which appeared.......damn yt.
I'll try post again heres one in abbreviated form:
aoc site video called Chris Anthony
interview excerpts from Conversations with Joe
at 5 50 details playdo model / pics/ to render / nasa cfd in his own words
where he says 'nurbs' model, its an early way to render 3d objects, so their pictures of a 3d playdo model, are sent to a guy who then renders a version on a computer that allows you to stretch lines using the mouse etc, to get nice smooth curves in 3d space.
I would love to see the pictures of this early playdo model that he took......amazing to think that this relatively basic playdo model in the kitchen has given them the opportunity to say nasa wind tunnel testing has shown this car can achieve low cd value and all that funding
in a sense has flowed from using the word "nasa" to give them credibility........but I think the reality is very very different. The chances of this render resembling closely the current model aptera are very low. Continuing all these years later to use this as credible data to lure investors
( my personel view only, for entertainment purposes only, not a expert )
YT is fickle. Sometimes it delays, and sometimes it deletes - you never know.
I'm starting to see aussies point on pinnafarina, it does seem odd its all setup, obviously the tunnel is running, rear attached to load cel, why were there no results? I actually thought photo-opportunity from the beginning as thats how they roll....smoke and mirrors.....literally.
I can now see that there might actually be some data that they didn't want to release, took me a while to cotton on to that one.
The other issue is is it really stable? Have they in fact sorted out the up/down forces on the vehicle? I guess its possible that not only is the cd way off, since a full size has never been tested in wind tunnel there might be other issues have arisen. There can always be an unexpected result can come up. The up/down forces are supposed to balance out and be neutral ( according to morelli) but these guys are not following morellis shape, they have changed it for appearance, to make it look nice. Perhaps the balancing act that morelli worked out is a delicate balancing act............I guess we will never know.
One issue is, since many other facets of apteras design/data have been 'faked' why would anyone believe they have also sorted out the balance of the vehicle at high speeds.
The effects of crosswinds at high speeds. Does the front or rear lift at high speeds?
All this very basic knowledge is essential for safety and they have no data on it apart from simulations.........worrying at the least.
They really need to verify its stability, I guess doesn't matter really, cant see them ever producing any for sale anyhow.
( my personel view only, for entertainment purposes only, not a expert )
just spent a bit of time going over the aptera pinnafarina video, trying to zoom on 4k, cant make out any numbers ( apart from the biggest number is a 20 at top left middle screen) which might be wind speed in km/hr is my guess, everything else tried lots of tricks but cant read any of it. There is certainly some data there but cant read it.
There is a value in largish letters in centre of screen that you can see( down and to the right of the 20 value ( km/hr my guess)), I'm guessing that might be the cd, but I really cant make out any of the digits......they look like all zeroes but really it inconclusive. Someone with fancy video tools might be able to make out what they are, did my best on that one.
Another observation was Fambro saying China provides no competition for Aptera; talk about a head in the sand mentality! In the USA the government protects Aptera from Chinese EV's, so he is partially right - but he intends to sell this silly trike globally, and everywhere in the rest of the entire world Chinese EV's will take almost every potential Aptera sale from them.
Exactly, perhaps not in the US market, but any other market will be tough competition.
Or another way to look at it is, since Aptera does not make a car, then of course Chinese EVs are not direct competition. Since it is a trike, it could be argued that it can do most things a car can do, only worse.
I'll say this, whatever Chinese firm built my newest e-bike did a fantastic job. The quality of it has exceeded my expectations.
@@JoeBManco The Chinese make lots of motorbikes, lol.
@@aussieideasman8498 the chinese have been leaders in electric transport for a very long time, they have been using three wheel electric trikes large and small for daily transport and for goods transport before aptera was concieved. Electric scooter/motorbike style have been daily transportation for millions for probably two decades now. The chinese have no need for aerodynamics, local transportation is the focus, but as far as electric threewheelers they are simply everywhere and have been for a long long time. I dont think people realise just how advanced china is.
It depends on how you look at it, electric threewheelers are simply everywhere over there, aerodynamic threewheelers there is no need for them.
@@namenotshown9277 It's another world over there.
Aptera,
I have an idea of what you can do to raise funding. Please start on November, 5. This is because you can constantly text, call and go to peoples front door to ask for donations. It must work and thus this is a way to constantly badger people non stop where they will break down and just give you what you want.
Regards,
BS
Just noticed some nice zooms on the text in the video..getting fancy!
rich rebuilds chanel video 3 months ago called
I Bought 3 of The Most Fun EV Prototypes That We May Never See Again
at 10 30 you see a guy doing some crazy driving to test stability thats the sort of driving needed to test stability and even more undulating/hilly surface or cambered road is needed.
Its arcimotor vehicle and you can see just how dangerous it can be once he gets a front wheel lifted off the ground
this is response to munro saying if he cant tip the aptera no one can, his driving was tame compared to this guy
I’m not sure everyone was aware, but the moose test was heavily (literally) rigged via 2 large weight stacks in the front of the vehicle.
To make sure you see what I’m talking about, you can not only see these outboard of the radiator in the moose video, but they actually show them changing the stacks in their Brake Test video.
To be clear, they fabricated the mounts and installed them, cut the plates and installed those, and the combined weight gave the Beta a huge forward CG shift NOT remotely representative of their eventual product.
Specifically, there is nothing that will weigh that much “up there” in the eventual vehicle that the weight stacks represent, and you know the balance of the vehicle was incomplete/on the light end of the scale.
So on “what they show”, this one is #1 on my blatant lie/misrepresentation list.
And like the USCG data, it’s right out in front of fans who chose to ignore their lying eyes.
I put a post should have put it here a rich rebuilds video showing arciomtor you can lift a wheel but once lifted it cuts power apparently
I think a video called Polaris Slingshot Offroad Testing by c boys
at 10m shows pretty clearly that under certain circumstances aptera will roll over
i would really like to see sandy munro in a pi vehicle with these guys driving it trying to roll it over.......roll over guarenteed
You can see in the video ( drone view) the camber in the road ( track) plays a large roll in derailing stability.
a video called polaris slingshot rollover shows what too expect from aptera without weights in the front
and another called Polaris Slingshot flips on Hwy 160 shows what to expect
The moose test. Yep, with a vehicle that shares zero with the Pi. I'm glad they still show that as it confirms I'm right.
maybe a video of pi2 moving would be good, I think alot of folks here will have comments, I know I said opposite when you asked if you should make one. sorry about that chief ( in maxwell smart accent)
Found a video of the Aptera design and testing process. ruclips.net/video/cZrWOkmYJpw/видео.html
It said it was wind tunnel testing but showed much more. Great car but you need those glasses upgraded, lol.
The only thing missing is CM scooting around in his shorts giggling.
@@artsmith103 We can all do without that.
@@aussieideasman8498 You know you like it. Especially when he says "awesome" over and over again. I just wish they would have one of your fellow Australians do the videos. You know, Leigh Diffey. He loves to use the phrase "Argy Bargy" over and over again.
camber angles on front wheels dont look good
at 48sec you can see lots of cable ties on the very long charge cables, I think he specifically said no cable ties in this model..........seems he's wrong
A fan mentioned bad wheel camber. Aptera replied that suspension is being tuned.
@@artsmith103 - Camber must be fine as they designed the whole thing on CAD.
I'm a bit suprised at the amount of ground clearance it has. The ride height is a bit much. I'm going to guess it has to do with the bodywork that will be attached and that makes it look lower. On a regular car, the outside seams are typically the lowest part of the car. Since Aptera only has about 50% of the bodywork on it, who knows what will work.
Looks like two of the guys there are not Aptera employees buy probably from KW (or a KW dealer) doing the ride height. Because they are just using a tape measure. If they really were on their A-Game, they would have shock pots and a data system (i.e. AIM, Motec, Bosch etc) to just log this. Plus they make infrared sensors for ride height that can be logged.
Even low buck race teams have this. Cripes, I have about 10 pots in my garage. That vehicle should be wired to the hilt with sensors. Yet nothing as simple as a wheel speed sensor on each wheel.
tried to zoom in on the screens cant make out any data.
BTW, was Audra A. Not interested? B. Sacked? or C. Behind the camera at the staff photo? Someone check on her, lol.
maybe she has a conscience?
If I was running Aptera, I'd only use people from local Universities or Colleges and do unpaid interns for the media. It is way cheaper and you have a constant flux of new talent that just want to use it as a resume builder.
@@namenotshown9277 Looking into those eyes - I hardly think so, lol.
What ever the results were, it was before the new required mod to bring a lot of cooling air into the frunk area.
Also, the body shape is different as you can see the tail section is longer. So who knows what other dimensions have changed. Then let's not forget those axles. I was told by the superfans that the hub motor was the best because you didn't have losses in aero from the axles and the CV joints also create inefficiencies too.
Today, all of that has been erased from their memory.
Remember, skin cooling will be out soon, not just for the first few. Speaking about that, Aptera has an old video with a completely different skin cooling technique they were pushing around 2021.
The different machine doesn't make the lie any less a lie.
@@aussieideasman8498 Besides the suspicious results then, they are certainly worse now.
@@artsmith103 So how come visitors like the recent Viking don't notice? They must do, but decide to lie along with them. It's the pull of the mighty dollar and no ethics.
@@aussieideasman8498 Notice what? The doors are fun, solar dreams are fun, knock open door is fun, and all the shortcomings are blamed on prototype staus.
AOC has come out with 'Aptera PI2 is now driveable!' And it should read 'Aptera PI2 is PROBABLY now driveable!' because he kept saying that and you never saw it move. In fact, the photo caption said it was going through the start checklist and didn't even claim that it was driven. In fact, it didn't claim it was actually started. Click bait at its finest from the cretin.
Then the cretin raves on about pilots and surgeons doing checklists as if the silly trike was a plane or an operating theatre, lol! This is a simple EV, with the emphasis on simple. Nobody has startup procedures and nobody does checklists. My EV has a start button. When that's pressed I know when I put it in drive and press the accelerator pedal it will move because the screen comes alive. Some EV's (Volvo) have done away with the start button and all you do is sit in the correct seat for the screen to light up. You still have do select 'drive' or 'reverse'. in past videos where Gamma has overheated Chris has blamed the incorrect start sequence for the problem. What on earth is that sequence, and how can you get it wrong and still move? Utter nonsense, and another example of his lying.
That looked like a long list of tasks on the sheet he was following, but my father was a pilot and every time I flew with him he would start the checklist with a walk-around. The in-cockpit stage was the last phase. Now, someone tell me if that structure in the top right of the picture isn't the frunk lid up? It looks like it is to me, and nobody drives their EV with that up. No pilot starts the in-cabin checks without having put it down in the walk-around. This looks like another staging prank. I won't believe the silly trike can drive until I see more concrete evidence. You gullible fanboys are already making "great news" comments on the AOC video and I know you deceive others - you just want to protect your investment. It's evil; shame on you all - most of all the cretin.
So the Pi2 is complete! I knew it and now it's validated and we are ready for production! Deliveries start in two months. Aptera is done with R&D and testing. I am happy and here we go!
Go Aptera GO!
@@billsmith5960 The acronym for Go Aptera GO! is GAG! - Irony.
Even if the PI2 trike can drive, does it have the full battery or is it another forklift battery?
@@JoeBManco Battery has to be LE size or it's not even a PI. Judging by the laptop for a screen and other clues, this piece of crap doesn't qualify as it is. It reminds me of the Beta all over again. They said up to 12 of those, and at PI.2 we're probably in for another lie like that one.
Maybe I should watch the cretin's video. I'm so done with him (and Hillbilly Bill) that I don't even want him to have my one-time view. Hopefully you will review it instead.
As for what is and is not considered production intent, the phrase has lost all meaning with Aptera since we don't know what parts they actually used for PI2. They said it wouldn't be a complete trike, so it doesn't necessarily need all of the parts that a production vehicle is supposed to have.
If Aptera does not show this trike driving from fully charged to fully discharged (without overheating) and it gets somewhere close to 400 miles, then we know another deception has taken place.
fambro speak:
low speed function test = pi2 moves
Too many years trying to make mundane events sound technical.....
It had to have been high speed. They had race seats, 6 pt harnesses and helmets on. I am upset that one of them had an open face helmet and neither had a HANS device. If you are going to go all out, then do it right. I also did not see a fire system and no roll bar padding. This is a gross disregard for Aptera safety. It would not even pass an SCCA regional tech. So, Aptera needs to be called out on this or someone will die! Half baked safety is worse than none at all.
@@billsmith5960 lets say hypothetically, they do some really long hard testing on bumpy roads, the binc cracks and detaches at high speed.......would the fanboys even take any notice?
@@namenotshown9277 - Nobody will notice because Aptera will never reveal something like that. Remember, Aptera is the most transparent company ever..............when it comes to just good news.
Munro has put out a video on aptera, I watched first 5 mins, and couldn't stand the bs.
C.Anthony saying fambro modelled the aerodynamics on computer and it was some sort of first.......bs........morelli did it and they have mentioned this before.
Then fambro starts up on some airline he cant name about solar on airport tugs.......he cant mention the airline because there is no deal with any airline.....just looking for another money spinner. One tug that may/maynot be associated with fambro/anthony that has flat solar cells......more bs. I stopped watching after that. Will go back and watch where munro shows some of the parts on benches.........the bs is so annoying once you know they are lying, how can they just say it over and over and know its not true....the 40 miles from solar comes up again.........they have some brain injury where they just repeat the same thing over and over?
I watched the whole 40 mins before I had to go out for a 50th wedding anniverary of friends. Great night and better than working on the roast of the Ninje I am rushing through. That prevents me from doing a video on the Munro garbage. Most of the parts are on picnic tables and he doesn't notice this glaring fact? It's a con job and he's in on it.
Munro the cost saving expert suggests to 3d print the frame out of titanium......
I think you have your answer right there on this guys true capabilities......he is a youtuber who does teardowns, trying to make out he is production expert because he has torn down some vehicles and was a tool maker at ford donkeys years ago. I really have to use one of aussies terms: a snake oil salesman selling snake oil for two aptera snake oil salesman........
If Sandy munro had put money into aptera he would be saying over and over how much he invested.........I've invested x dollars into aptera......he was paid partly in shares is my guess........he wouldn't put a cent into these guys.
There are just so many lies to pick from in this video, example: fambro says this vehicle will never have an interior its a test vehicle.......a couple of days ago he said it was 100% production intent....cant keep track of his own lies........must be hard keeping this up.
He says its not protoytpe also a couple of days ago........but they have all this testing to do, I think in a way they are back to square one, they have a new prototype that they have probably years of testing to do on it, if they want to know its safety and capabilities and handling and reliability............so far from production its not funny.
Its one hell of a prototype, if they ever finish it before running out of money, will they even put solar on this one? No point in rushing the solar, it will just show how dishonest their predictions are, better just hold off on that one, they just want to keep saying 40 miles of range for as long as they possibly can as it brings in the dollars ( average range of usa drives, supposed to be around 40 miles, well it was a long time ago when they adpoted this lie, thats probably not even the case now).
C. Anthony also saying 60 to 70% of energy is used lost pushing through the wind, he has been starting off with that little nutmeg so much now, he doesn't even qualify what he is talking about, at what speeds, what vehicle type etc, its just a sweeping statement without detail that he falls back on.
@@namenotshown9277 The titanium 3D print idea was ridiculous. That amount of titanium would cost a fortune and the print method would weaken the frame. What I got out of his lying was twice he said he hadn't seen something when he had. But maybe he wasn't lying - was he forgetting? A real possibility. Notice you have nobody refute your comments? That's an indication you fellow trolls are dead right. You may be saving people from financial loss with your entertaining remarks, and at the least are just giving room for thought. Nothing wrong with that. Every coin must have two sides.
I have just watched the Aptera portion of Ten news and Nikki is deceiving with her carefully contrived report on the PI.2 drive. It's a shame I have the new cretin that is the Ninje to deal with.
@@aussieideasman8498 ten news australia?
Another interesting bit of theatre was right at the end, munro speculates on how much it would cost a 'normal' company to build the aptera....he muses over it, silence, he thinks, he looks around in his thoughts, he gives a slight smirk to fambro.........he then declares it would take 500 oto 600 million to do this and how much have you done it for......C.Athony answers.......only 100 million!
Munros acting on coming up with this number ( he has said before) apparently on the spot after careful deliberation is quite entertaining........like my posts for entertainment only.
Well lets see about that number: first aptera version 70 million raised according to fambro/anthony ( I forget which one said that number recently), very nice.
Aptera mk2 140 million raised, that sums up to 210 million. The first version was of course a large part of the development.