The biggest problem I have with TWD is the season finale wasn’t really a finale. It was a set up episode for all the spin offs. AMC absolutely milked TWD for every penny they could with no care to quality.
Everyone says this, but how exactly? Daryl, Negan, Maggie, and the Commonwealth, got satisfying conclusions, and of course TOWL was teased in what was essentially a post-credits scene. 11x24 acted more as a finale than a "setup episode."
@@TheFerg714 I think if the final shot of the show (besides rick) wasn't Daryl leaving to start a new adventure, especially one we were promised we'd see, I'd agree with you here. The final two scenes (now including Rick) are pure setup, and that's the final taste they left in everyone's mouth on the mothership show. Still a great episode just... annoying
@@scottsspot But Daryl wasn't "starting a new adventure" in that scene. He was simply going on a run to recruit people, which was honestly the perfect ending for him.
@@TheFerg714 what are the context clues to support that? Because if that's what they were going for it was terribly done. You dont make a "run" feel as "final" as him riding off into the sunset. I mean right before, Maggie is telling him we need to expand and see the world. It felt 110% like a sendoff
Carl dying was what killed the whole show. Though i do agree the problems were adding up over time. But it was carls death that broke the camels back. God why did they do that lol
Absolutely, I've said it a million times but comic book Carl is my favorite TWD character period, and the show butchered all his big moments and then killed him before the whisperer arc which imo has some of his most interested and awesome moments
I love that you touched on how deep we actually are into the apocalypse by the end of the show. When they decided to have a time skip after Andrew Lincoln's departure of like what was it 5 years? That's basically when I stopped watching. There were plenty of other reasons and arguably the show got better once the showrunners changed. Unfortunately they really thought they could just skip ahead years to decades and act like nothing changed. To act as if there could still be groups of completely innocent and not hardened people around 10 years after the entire world collapsed.
@@IIIISai Y’all are forgetting how he befriended Judith, meaning I assume she brought him books etc, stuff to do that kept him busy. Rick stopped by, so did Michonne, so did Carol, and I guarantee Daryl did a few times as well. That’s one of the things about the show I’m not upset about, Negan’s state of mind. You wouldn’t go literally crazy when you have interactions with people weekly. My brother was put in isolation/solitary for 8mos while in prison. He said as long as he could pray, read the Bible and other books, and exercise in his cell, he was fine. Not seeing people bothered him somewhat, but not as much as you’d think. Ppl being thrown into solitary as POW’s is a completely diff story in the real world. It’s much more terrible than solitary in prison. Negan wasn’t an actual psychopath or sociopath before they threw him in there ya know. My point is, ppl who are mentally ill are usually ALREADY that way before put into confinement under fairly decent & humane conditions 🤷🏼♀️
@@jacks1bonnielass thats a beautiful story and breakdown fair enough, I guess what I wanted was some type of adjustment, it felt too quick, the shows timeskip also never made us feel the true solitary, fair enough tho, how big was your brothers cell btw
They legit hardly used guns in season 9 cuz they got set back and started using bows n shit again and before that they were using eugenes method for making bullets
Fr. I think that issue started once the got to Alexandria and only got worse once they introduced the other communities and the saviors. You watch a community get absolutely massacred with a significant number of people dying and then suddenly a bunch more survivors just kinda appear and we’re supposedly always there. I understand that that kind of thing is mostly due to logistic and budgetary restrictions on TV shows, but it still totally brings me out of the show. Completely eliminates the stakes and connect the viewer has with these groups. The worst offense was the Commonwealth supposedly having a 50k+ population, yet we only ever saw maybe 20-30 people on screen at any given time. Also they reused that one set location to death. Didn’t feel immersive or real
I read that the lack of crowds for the commonwealth was due to Covid restrictions. Once restrictions were lifted could they then have bigger crowd scenes.
I kinda stopped liking the show after season 5 finale but kept watching until the saviors get introduced along with the hilltop and kingdom all the sudden multiple cities of people just appear outta nowhere
Yea I agree that was so dumb. First Rick has no issues dealing with the saviors, then all of a sudden there's thousands of them in the area and Rick is hopelessly out numbered? Yea right lol Such a dumb way to handle things
I dropped off for Rick's "final" episode. I was always an avid believer of this being Rick's story, so it should end with Rick (like the comic did), or pass the torch to Carl. Seeing as it did neither, I decided to make Rick's last episode my own finale to the series. Ngl it was very depressing seeing the show's decay in real time. I went from watching this series with my family as a weekly occurrence as a kid, speculating and talking about future events with my friends in high school, to sitting alone in my college dorm half paying attention and just scrolling through my phone as I was given bottle episode after bottle episode post Negan. I was definitely one of the last people in my community that stuck with that show, and even I couldn't escape from that indifference feeling leading up to Rick's final episode :/. I think my dad fell off around Alexandria, the rest of my family actually did fall off post Glenn's death, and most of my friends stopped watching during All Out War.
This describes me a lot too, i was 7 when the show started then i watched the last few episodes in my college dorm, my entire family watched till Glenn died, then it was only me till the end, i still like TWD, but nothing can beat those early days.
Thats when I was done to, but I felt the Show ended after Negan. It just wasnt about Surviving Zombies anymore. Once Zombies where no longer a real threat, it just wasnt the same Show.
For the longest time I thought I had stopped watching after Glenn. After re-watching the whole show, in order to see the seasons I hadn't, I had apparently watched about half of season 8. I just did not remember any of it.
i stopped after Negans defeat... i remember everyone at my job at the time coming in every week hooked on the show. I loved Negan belittling Rick then the old grimmy Rick coming out. Loved all the Savior chars too... once he beat all of them I felt like it was a perfect ending to the show. Next season I kindof fell back more and more also changed jobs so maybe thats it. I just not a fan of shows that go on forever. Thats why i was a fan of all those HBO shows like The Wire and stuff because it was long but not long
Problem is they didn't replace any of those who died with interesting characters. I can remember most of the deaths/characters in the first bunch of seasons. Everyone new after that sucked. For example Tara who was the sole survivor from her town joins the group that killed them... That's a gold mine of interesting development but no they just sideline her until we don't care anymore.
@@zebwiz1900a lot of the female characters got pretty one dimensional over time as well. Sasha, Tara, Maggie, Rosita, Michonne (mostly). Felt like Carol was the only female character who’s story actually mattered to the plot and was constantly developing
They killed Chandler Riggs off because he was older and they would have to pay him as an adult and not a child actor anymore. The man purchased a house in Atlanta. Same shit Happened to Beth
People left after the glen death because of how it happened not because it happened. Killing a character but not revealing who until the next season premiere is wild. I know I only watched that premiere to see who negan killed.
"Killing a character but not revealing who until the next season premiere is wild." That's not what they did, at least not with Glenn. Glenn was only in the premiere, not the finale. You're thinking of Abraham.
@@chippdbanjo Noone died in the finale when they filmed that episode they didn't know who was gonna die, so both Abraham and Glenn died in the premiere, both were revealed in the same bullshit way if they wanted to do better they could have killed one of them in the finale and then Glenn in the premiere as a twist.
@@Diogo_7237 From a first person, we literally see the final moments (and passing) of Abraham. I wasn't critiquing them saying nobody dies in the finale, it was more the character, since the POV we see is Abraham, not Glenn. Glenn's death was handled well imo, Abraham's was the issue because of Glenn.
@@waynejohnson184 THe main rule of any tv show is not to give a shit about what the viewers want, Glenn was far from being the main favorite character the show would have gone to hell in season 7 and 8 with or without Glenn. The best tv shows in history were not influenced by viewers favorites, as long as it's a good well written story it doesn't matter. The real favorites are still alive and look at how bad the show is, Rick, Daryl, Carol, this Glenn argument is a huge bullshit, people just want to make nonsensical excuses for the show's downhill. If what keeps you watching something is a character, and not the story itself, then you don't like the story, you only like 1 character and that's stupid, people nowadays cry too much online about anything that doesn't fit their needs, it's not your show, you're not the writer, you don't get to tell what the people making it should do, movies and tv shows were much better before the internet.
For me personally, the show was far more interesting when the main threat was the Zombies. The show benefited from having very few people in it because it made the group feel like it was them vs the world, with very little hope of finding other people to help them survive. As soon as the show started focusing more on the human vs human conflict, and introduced the many different towns and communities, it just lost what made it special. It became yet another human vs human show, with a bit of a zombie apocalypse sprinkled in. Don't get me wrong, when human vs human conflict was first brought into the show in season 3 and early season 4, it was a really interesting perspective to see how our characters would handle that, as we had never seen things from that perspective really up to that point. But as soon as the show focused almost purely on human vs human, for season after season after season, TWD just became unwatchable for me. I dropped off after Negan was defeated, but well before then I was losing interest. Retrospectively, I actally now think that the best place to end the series would have been when the group gets to Alexandria.
The human V human conflicts in the earlier seasons worked because of the scale, the sizes of the groups made sense. When they groups lost even a few people it was felt by their communities, it's actually a loss because it's the apocalypse and there's so few people. The savior seasons onward didn't care about the scale of the groups, just like what he said in this video. No matter how many people died it didn't seem to matter at all, because in the next episode or scene all those people would be replenished plus some lol. It was so poorly done season 7 onward
Except the human versus human conflict was the entire point of TWD series, the novels. The major theme being that even when humanity should become united against a common threat that human nature still makes us see other people as enemies.
Absolutely.. 👍🏻👍🏻 kinda funny you mentioned that they could've finished the show once Rick's group arrives at Alexandria.. because Kirkman actually had thought about that. He said he was really thinking about ending the comic once Rick and Co arrived at Alexandria.
it feels like the show went from a show about surviving the zombie apocalpyse with three dimensional characters to a show where those same people are now caricatures with superhero like skills. TWD universe became a parody of itself
Dropped off because Carl died, it wasn't even me liking the character or the actor, he was okay. His characterization was honestly mostly bad, probably a writing issue. But all that's irrelevant, Carl was the center of the show, without him, Rick doesn't work as a character. Rick doing everything for his Son is the central point of his character, its why you can watch Rick go and do absoultely unhinged fucked up things, and still end up rooting for him, without that element to his character, Rick is just some crazy no stakes action hero. They spent so long building up that bond between him and Carl that without it the show itself died to me, bad quality of s7 and s8 didn't help but at that moment it all just sorta became white noise to me, the characters just became actors, the ongoing story just became a script, and the illusion of the world being real was shattered, and this wasn't even for a character I even particularly liked. Just one of the worst writing decisions ever made in the history of Television really.
Yep agreed. You know I hated Glens death, but i could accept his death a lot more then Carls surprisingly simply based off what you said. Carl was also being set up as the man to carry the torch After Rick. Even in the Comics Carl lives on. Lots of build up for Carl snd it was ALL wasted…. The way they killed him off was lazy as fuck. I still liked season 8 to a degree but his death nearly ruined it for me.
This. Carls death did it for me. He was finally made to be not annoying and they’re like epp time to go bc it will subvert expectations!!! Glens death we knew was coming. Carl? Why. CORAL!!!! Noooooo!!!
Agreed. I quit watching at that point as well. I did finally finish the show last year but it never recaptured what made it compelling in the first place.
His death was so pointless. Carl might not have been the best character but he was slowly getting better near the end. His build up was getting better. He could have been set up to be the man to carry the torch after Rick,
@@austinclark5278 exactly! i don't blame Chandler because he started when he was young and i couldn't imagine myself in his position, but i think that made Carl more relatable.
I just loved the whole atmosphere of the show around Daryl's brother presence and the time Eugenes group allied with Rick. The brother added such a rich uncertainty of a risky element you never knew where was going, and he was also that stereotypical dumb selfish army guy you expect to see, just loved his character and idk why
I always found it funny just how similar Walking Dead & Game of Thrones really are. 1. Both created as an answer to their traditional genres respectively. Robert Kirkman said he always wanted to see what happened next after a zombie movie ends and Martin's work is basically the post-modern answer to Tolkien's setting. 2. Both found a niche audience. 3. Both picked up by a major network. 4. Both a crappy showrunners, yet still had great seasons. 5. Both began to decline halfway through. 6. Both began to dumb down the storyline and simplify the characters. 7. Both have spinoffs planned. (I'm much more interested in GOT'S Spinoffs) P.S. I also would like an animated series based off the comic that's more faithful. But yes, Kirkman would to be fully in charge and the spinoffs would need to be cancelled.
1. They fired Frank early on and it was both a crappy move and not smart. 2. The biggest problem is they wanted "shocker" moments ie - Dale, Andrea, Lorie etc.. deaths. They literally kill Andrea way early on and she is suppose to be (from my recollection) in Alexandria . Carl gets killed because "well it's the mid or end season finale.. we gotta do something crazy." Their entire decisions were based on charts and demographics; "We can't kill Daryl.. people will riot.." "We know the fans love these big moments.. who we gonna kill next?" "well they gotta get here.. even though this character is dead." They were so worried about keeping interest with these emotional / shocker moments they really screwed things over. I would be willing to bet if they didn't off characters left and right , then the most iconic death (Glenn) wouldn't have turned non comic fans off so much, especially since he had a "fake death" prior. The comics did well because they were well written and well thought out overall. AMC had great source material and decided to go so far off the rails and became needlessly greedy, they shot themselves in the foot. Had they stuck to the comics, I would bet anything the show woulda have MUCH better viewership toward the end.
@TheReelHeel Yep. Exactly what I thought, too. S7E2 and onwards was a steeeep drop-off. Like, almost historically so.. Btw, love the profile name 👍🏻🤷🏻♂️
@@TheReelHeel oh agreed... S9 is more like a scifi/age of empires mix, which is cool, but it's nowhere near the tone and quality of the first six, 1-4 especially. Even those seasons had terrible bouts of unevenness after S3x04. S2B is by far my favourite. S9 (post-Rick) and most of S10 are almost a different animal entirely. Here's Negan is one of the top episodes of the show, but that's because it's so similar in tone to the first few seasons, with the beginning of the outbreak and all. Unfortunately, in S11 the show completely falls apart after the Washington storyline. The Reapers were horrible enemies lmao. The Commonwealth was awful as well. Funnily enough, I would still rate S11 higher than the awful dumpster fire that was S7-8 (minus 7x01.) I haven't seen RIck's new show yet, but I hope it's decent.
I assume you haven't seen Dexter but it literally has two bad endings like they made the first one bad and then when they tried to fix it they made it even worse interestingly Dexter is also based on a book
I still can’t believe new bloods ending was somehow even far worse than season 8s ending. It’s actually unbelievable still too me😂😂it had to be done on purpose
New Blood was a even bigger kick to the nuts, because it had the advantage of building up to a new finale for years. Huge stakes too since we knew this would be the end where Dexter gets caught. The season was quite good but they really dropped the ball into the fkin abyss with that ending. The original showrunner returned for New Blood and he had a great ending in mind for the original series before he left, I don't know wtf happened.
The “special” walker thing also kinda goes to show that the writers or execs or whoever is really big on that decision kinda misses the point of the source material. The zombies are entirely superfluous. They’re just a mechanism for the story to happen and a force of nature that the characters have to deal with
Glenn's death was the beginning of the end for me. When Rick was flying away on the helicopter after the bridge being blown up was the final episode I ever watched. I jumped back in and watched Here's Negan during the pandemic..but that was that.
a short from that episode convinced me to try after quitting in S8 and taking like six years off from the show maybe longer. I skipped to the end of S8, which was OK, but I'm glad I tried because S9, while wildly different, more sci-fi like in the devolution of their technology, was actually quite good. S10 was OK and finished off the momentum of the post-Rick era nicely, but kind of fizzes out with the Commonwealth as the budget really shows there... so S11 really misses the mark, which was idiotic as it should've ended with a bang for all the spinoffs, but hey this is AMC. S9 is definitely entertaining. TLDR: I went back and watched S9-11 after quitting in S8. While the new non-Rick show is not nearly as good as S1-4, it has its merits, especially if you're out of things to watch. S9 is especially good, even after Rick's solid first three eipsodes.
@@drlca6601I personally kinda like non rick seasons especially season 9 but I always felt that something is missing and seasons 9-11 would be much better with rick
The fucking spinoffs make zero since, I binged the walking dead during covid quarantine from school and i was so confused when michonne left, Because it literally destroys her character, shed neve leave her fucking kids in this world to go look for a man who can handle himself , its rick fucking grimes, shes seen him do some impossible shit, your kids need you more. Daryl leaving rick and michonnes kids also makes zero since, hed die for those kids like they were his own, hed never leave them without his protection when he knows rick and michonne arent there, what if another fucking Negan comes around to kill everyone? Like some of the decisions they make literally makes no sense. These characters wouldn't of done this when they were in this primes and felt invincible (post prison, pre negan) but they would do it knowing the horrors of this world and having kids and shit?
Daryl was basically the leader after Rick and Michonne, and his leaving is basically letting any villain come around and do whatever he wants, sure Carol’s there, but she’s just one woman and she needed Daryl and others most of the time to help her protect other people
Agreed, finally somebody understands this. A.M.C has & will continue to milk this crap into the ground. Walking Dead needs new characters & direction now.
FTWD was honestly the only good spin-off, yeah it had it's downs but least it ended far better than the original and actual fan service, yes it was also inconsistent and season 8 was boring, there were only two great episodes. It felt more survival oriented than the original show and each season had a different theme and setting.
I truly understand and agree. Leaving your kids alone is horrible, let alone a ZOMBIE APOCALYPTIC world setting, I don’t care if it’s for your love, your children are your life. Ps I love TOWL it’s ending. I’m done with the TWD now, but I completely agree dude
@@justinpatton6996 I honestly think covid killed the revival of the walking dead because season 9 was fucking awesome in my opinion and then in season 10 the show felt soo empty, all the familiar background characters disappeared, which made the show feel so small. Like the episode where Alexandria was flooding, we saw like 8 people in Alexandria freaking out and all of them were in the main cast, what happened to all those background characters like the bald black guy ? I know its a weird nitpick but it made the show feel sooooo much smaller
personally i didn't watch season's 10 and 11, but i picked the show back up for rick and michonne given it was the one plotpoint i cared about, i liked it more than.. most people seem to.. because it was, whilst not perfect and obviously contrived, giving me everything i really wanted out of the tv universe now, an ending, and i feel, even if ik they're gonna continue this on for like 5 more spinoffs atleast, i got an ending with rick seeing his kids again. and i'm fine with that as an ending.
Yup, been vpning for years now. With the recent Helldivers situation too, I have no idea how a company of their size can't have licensing figured out in 2024 💀
@@kiandl6368 5 months after it officially came out, people have been spoiled to hell and back by now and probably seen clips all over the internet of it. Whats the point in a schedule like that, and what is their excuse for it in a digital age?
I left when rick "died" when blowing up the bridge, the show felt weird for a moment at that point and i thought that's a good moment to drop the show, i watched like one episode of next season and decided that that's not it anymore, but i did rewatch like first 4/5 seasons 3 times
When I saw that last episode, I was like after all those years of building up the CRM they ended it like that? They should have let Rick join the CRM and keep it going.
I think the only hope for the Walking Dead IP or, Universe (TV included) is: - a comic 1-1 animated adaptation - a Telltale Walking Dead adaptation - or, a separate story with new characters and a different location
At this point, I don’t think a new story/setting would work. Unless it was GOOD GOOD. It’s automatically gonna have a bias on it by general audiences by having The Walking Dead sticker attached to it. Also the fact that they tried this with Fear but it wasn’t pulling the numbers they wanted so they tied it into the main show. Comic accurate versions of an adaptation of the games would be good but like stated in the video, Kirkman would need full creative control for it to work properly, which is doable, but AMC is going to put up a big fight and it’s likely years away from being close to happening
1-1 comic adaptation but keep the original actors. i would LOVE to see jdm act out comic negan or andrew doing the “we are not the walking dead” speech
These 3 would be great. In fact, I'd say the Daryl show is that separate story/characters cuz it's just him (and now Carol). A comic adaptation and telltale adaptation would be incredible
For me it were many things right from season 2: 1. The sluggish and uninteresting nature of the human drama. 2. Poor balance action, horror and drama. 3. Terrible pace of the episodes. 4. Zombies being background cannon fodder for 90% of the whole show. 5. Too many characters. 6. Characters not grounded in reality. 7. Staying too faithful to the comics in the wrong things, straying too far from the comics in also the wrong things. 8. Unrealistic survival elements like clothes, haircuts, food, ammunition being always an available resource. 9. Uninteresting subplots for most characters. 10. The yo-yo episodes between past and present, and episodes focused on just one character were all awfully done. 11. The setting feeling that most episodes went nowhere, that at the end of most episodes things end exactly as they started. 12. Rick's character being dragged to the mud, they didnt know what to do with him. Was aimless. 13. Villains overstaying too long. 14. Bringing back Morgan and it led absolutely nowhere. 15. FTWD started well, but they had to blend it with TWD resulting in crashing FTWD and adding more problems to TWD. 16. A myriad of spin offs announced. 17. Killing off Carl. 18. The obsession with killing off male characters and make TWD mostly a female centered show. 19. In result of this, siding off Rick. 20. The end was absolutely terrible.
36:25 "special Walkers in Europe" is so funny on too many levels. It is like zombie virus deliberately engineered apocalupse around US and put better walkers in the different continent so US survivors can have their post apo expansion pack. They took a comic trying to be realistic and dramatic story about people trying to survive in zombie apocalypse and turned it into bloody MMO
I just love how Jadis is, but when she got bit, It's as if those old RPGs where she suddenly sat down and just start monologuing. It's so surreal and got me laughing
Niegains is the most confusing self insert character - he has a random gaggle of goons who are sometimes in the hundreds and super well armed and sometimes just half a dozen guys with sharp sticks. He overpowers the main characters mostly due to their own incompetence and guns mysteriously becoming super rare. He often says super meta lines as if hes read the scripts for the season and knows what happens.
So I know that the ones who live could have definitely done the last episodes better because they did feel rushed, but I genuinely think that that side series explored marital problems and Rick and Michonne's dynamic better than anything in the entire walking Dead saga ever. I legitimately think, that ever since the show came out of its prime, that side series is the best thing that has come out since then. I love that side series
As a fan since day 1 I understood why people left after Rick "died". But sticking through the pain and seeing the finale of ones who lives did some redemption for me
I dropped off after the end of the main show. All these years and seasons and it ends with Daryl riding off into the sunset with no major plot points resolved so they might as well have just have a giant anvil fall on the main cast after they reached Alexandria
I disagree on the thrones imploding suddenly thing. It had cracks that formed around the midway point but managed to keep some quality till later on but the last season was SOOOO bad people forget the issues with seasons 4-7. Ill never forgive the dorne disgrace or the lack of lady stoneheart and feagon
I think of a lot of the changes GoT made in the same way I think of a lot of the changes TWD made - it's sort of a threshold. TWD, for example, immediately dabbled with the CDC and the origins of the virus - something that was a huge no-no with the overall themes of the comic. But because the big picture was still really strong, you can excuse it. Same for GoT, they removed A LOT of the magic and mysticism right from the get-go (like 99% of the Stark-warg storyline is removed outright), but again, because the rest of the story was super strong, you can excuse it. But with both shows, like I mentioned in the video, once they break the illusion, you start to look back and notice a lot more things that you would've previously excused, like the CDC, like Terminus, like the Stark wolves, like Lady Stoneheart, like John being dumbed down etc etc. Then again, obviously this is all just based on vibes, so that's just how I see it. For me, GoT burned their goodwill a lot faster than TWD.
@@Koroto I definitely see what you're saying, twd definitely went against the source in bigger ways earlier and got had a bigger and more sudden turn from most fans perspective. Ive just always thought people have rosed tinted glasses for the moddle seasons of thrones. It was still good but definitely already on a decline, but the last season fully fell off a cliff so it takes most of the heat when it comes to the issues. I completely agree with the overall point i just think there was a slow decent before the big drop, but that doesn't really change the end outcome😂
@@Koroto i think both shows made the same kind of mistakes but twd started its downhill slide earlier and there was never really the big drop off, so there isnt as much of a moment fans turned and people are more likely to forget the flaws before that big drop at the last season because of it is more what i was trying to say
S5 was the start of the downfall. THE dorne plot, Littlefinger giving Sansa to the Boltens and on top George himself coming out say he would Never do something that stupid.
I actually did fall off after Glenn, but it wasn't his death specifically. They gave him a fake out death, brought him back, then killed him in this brutal fashion, after we found out he was going to be a dad. It was just too much.
As much as I love the TWD franchise I would say that by TWD season 10 they were milking a cow that was practically out of milk because you had so many show exclusive characters and characters that had already died in the book at that point
The 100% biggest problem with this show after season 5 is that they decided to keep 16 episode seasons and had to stretch these storylines to insane lengths and introduce horrible side stories. They could’ve wrapped up this entire series in 9 seasons. But they got too greedy
The season 6 Glenn dumpster debacle was the first big moment that took me out of enjoying the show; toying with the audience in place of compelling writing. What outright killed the magic for me, was how season 6 episode 8 ended with teasing how Carl draws walkers attention during 'no way out'. Ending the episode on that cliffhanger, only to start the next episode pretending it never happened was just awful. I lost all respect and confidence in the show. But I kept watching, in naive hope that they wouldn't make the same mistakes with Negan. Well......
The first four episodes of the ones who live were phenomenal. There’s a few issues of course but I think overall they are incredibly solid episodes. Then five and six drove off a cliff with so many stupid plot contrivances, rushed conclusions and unsatisfying story telling. I personally really enjoyed season 10 and 11. Even though I do agree with the criticism of the characters perhaps being too invincible. On one hand, they’ve been through so much it makes sense that they are experienced enough to get out of most situations but at the same time they do feel far too covered in plot armor at times. I thought S11 was a great conclusion to the series and the way it ended, while open ended, left off on a hopeful, philosophical positive uplifting note with the whole “were the ones who live” monologue. It just really resonated with me. After the ones who live though, I think I’m done with this franchise. It’s meant a lot to me and it helped me through a lot of horrible times in my life. But I think at this point I’m just done. The universe will never really have a satisfying conclusion with the way it’s going and I am personally OK with just seeing season 11 as the ending with the ones who lives being a mostly good epilogue even with those last two episodes being really stupid.
Couldn't agree more with u regarding The ones who live. Jadis should've been more of a threat, beale should've been more of a threat and you cut out the cheesy champy dialogue and boom, easy 8 or 9/10 for each episode.
@@rhadpenguin 6 episodes isn’t enough run time for what they wanted to achieve. It should’ve been 8 to 12 episodes imo. And dedicated at least 3 episodes to taking down the CRM and with more help than just rick and michonne.
@@Sev3617 absolutely agree that 8 episodes could've done it. You flesh out the first episode and break it apart by giving more context to what Rick was up too after being taken by the CRM. Then take the time to close the story with more detail and not rush to a close in a single ep.
So glad I watched this video. I've been screaming how bad these later seasons have been for so long. The worst thing about it is all the carrots they dangle in front of people that never went anywhere just to keep people watching. And then the biggest sell out was the A and B's, which if you watched world beyond, the reasoning was retconned in the ones who live rendering most of world beyond completely meaningless. And it wasn't a good show anyway, the best thing about it was the way it teased a greater power in France and the origins of the outbreak. Ones who live just threw that all out and went with a love story that never ever felt particularly real. In the apocalypse it's more a case of people hooking up with other people just because they're there. After 8 years I felt what drove these characters and what motivated them should feel differently than something as simplistic as a one dimensional love story. Then they tried to portray the CRM as a super bad authoritarian organisation.. which allowed two security risks free reign 😂
TWD's story feels likes it's going backwards in time. I mean, for 5 or 6 seasons it really had an apocalytic atmosphere, as we only follow 'our' group which occasionally encounters friends/foes, and then... bam! Dozens of 'communities' - some very sophisticated, like Commonwealth or CRM - emerge here and there like mushrooms. That feels completely unrealistic. The show 's time-line should have been made the other way around
I really enjoy your perspective, it saves me sooo much time from even being curious about whatever they made after... I dropped off at the end of the main show, I'm not even 100% I watch all of it, I might have missed things somewhere along the middle. I gave them chances to do something with this main story they had been making for years. But, even if I didn't feel it was as bad as dummies and dragons, I mean, Game of Thrones, I still felt it was pretty much meaningless and had little to no satisfaction. So, I wasn't even paying attention anymore to whatever they were doing, enough is enough, even my addiction for audiovisual fiction has a limit. So, many thanks to you for putting this one up together, I can safely keep developing my skills to discard the things I know lead nowhere. Maybe an anime adaptation could be interesting, I do agree on that as well! 😁
Looking back I stopped watching because the comic ended around the same time season 9 ended, and it was very good. Having the contrast of an excellent ending with what felt like a money grab by having Rick's future open ended was probably what did it for me and other comic book fans. It was disappointing knowing we were never getting old man Carl telling the story of Rick Grimes to his daughter, or will ever see a monument for him. Because now it really would make no sense. TWD comic book is one of my favorite pieces of content ever, I loved the show but stopped watching after the Rick send off. It wasn't until covid when I had nothing to do when I picked up where I left off. I watched the remainder of season 9 and 10 and while I know I watched it I legitimately can't recall what actually happened, maybe it was because I was sick or it was just so bad compared to the comics, because I really enjoyed the whisper arc in them, and that's it. Didn't finish season 11 and never started 12, and it was sad to learn they didn't even end the show properly. I haven't seen any of the new spinoffs, just the first few seasons of Fear. I was the biggest Walking Dead fans and now I just can't seem to find any kind of interest in the stuff coming out. I like Daryl but he was never main character material. They ruined Negan, my favorite villain. And most importantly to me, they ruined Rick Grimes' legacy
I just want to do some TWD positivity. The Walking Dead tabletop roleplaying game by Free League Publishing is actually amazing and if you like the idea of TWD in Dungeons and Dragons form, it's absolutely worth checking out.
The last episode of the ones who live was the final nail in the coffin for me. The zombies is the only unrealistic thing i want in a zombie show. Michonne and Rick alone taking down a whole military base is more unrealistic than the zombies.
where are you guys from? im curiohs because as a canadian i never have these issues being right next to america, im wondering what countries get effected by this lol
@@keltongillanders5736no i mean like people who didn't a certain show , why would they be watching a video analysing of downfall and story aspects of a show they didn't watch
the show firing chandler riggs bc they didn’t wanna pay him adult salary only to then have to hire 3-4 adults to fill out the storylines in his place is peak stupid
I always found the society aspect of the walking dead quite boring, but it was ok. The problem for me began when they started to save ALL the big fights to seasons hiatus or finales. Not only would take forever to get something cool, but you had to wait even more, cause they would split it.
My opinion as someone who started TWD and GOT later than most: - I didn’t read the comics or the books until AFTER I’ve watched a good chunk of both shows. Therefore, I did not have any expectations about plots and no pre-attachment to any comic character; therefore I was a lot more forgiving to certain questionable choices they’ve made for the show. But I do understand how books/ comics fans would feel, as I felt the same with the HP live-action as well. - When I started watching the shows, I was able to binge watch, or at least, the next episode is available for me anytime I wanted. I didn’t have to wait a whole year/ season or be hyped up / scared about the fate of my favorite characters. So I wasn’t upset about certain character’s death like a majority of fandom were. And a good chunk of watchers who were able to binge watch share this sentiment as well. So I do believe their biggest downfall is the marketing in between seasons 6-7, had I experienced it in real time, I would have been disappointed. - Next point that I see a lot of fans were upset about was Glenn’s “dumpster-gate”. I wasn’t mad over that. But only because I didn’t have time to process it. I was binge-watching, so I was going through the series as fast-paced as the characters were in real time. It’s chaotic, it’s moving on so fast, I didn’t have a whole week to dissect it and think about it, because by the next day I was already at a different scene, worrying about different people and different things. - Carl’s death: I was sad, I cried a lot. But remember, I didn’t know the comic’s plot. I didnt have the expectation that Carl was gonna be the ONE. I didn’t know Judith was supposed to die. So I didn’t share the sentiment most fans shared “how could they kill Carl, Carl is supposed to be the one to make the show” The way I processed it was Oh crap they killed Carl, I’m so sad, I wish it didn’t happen. But Rick still got Judith to carry his legacy, and perhaps one day him and Michonne might have kids and become the leaders of the future. I was hopeful. - I love JDM so much, I’ve loved him as Denny Duquette, I’ve loved him exceptionally as John Winchester, and I am amazed with his Negan’s performance. But I was disappointed that he didn’t die. It doesn’t fit the build-up and the narrative of the group. I felt betrayed. - Which led me to one of my most unpopular opinion: I love Daryl, but Daryl getting out of everything unscathed is so blatantly fan-service at its finest. It made the show a lot less scary, and predictable. I slept through most of s8. S9 was redemption for me. - Then 11 came around and I was just more confused than ever. So many new enemies, so rushed. The whole Saviors plot was so stretched out when it could have made into less episodes to give time to properly introduce other enemies. - I did enjoy Commonwealth. For the first time since forever, I felt like “how tf are we going to defeat these people” but then again, the whole thing was rushed, it was over so fast and it didn’t make sense at all lol. But I do agree with a lot of fans, that the season finale was more of a set up for everyone’s spin-offs. I don’t plan on watching the spin-off, so I was left disappointed because a lot of things were blatantly ignored without a proper explanation and the cast didn’t have a proper send off. But overall, all the bads did not weight out the goods for me, I rewatched s1-4 A LOT, and I didn’t have to wait for S7 premiere or the whole disappointment of s8. So I didn’t have time to stew in resentment but I was able to get to enjoy the show as a whole. And it’s one of my favorite shows.
People say Carl’s death killed the TV show but that’s just part of the greater issue the show had of not following its source material. It’s more forgivable with GOT because they ran out of material, but the walking dead comics had an amazing storyline and ending. What annoyed me constantly about the show was how it would stray from the original storyline into a worse one. Carl’s death is definitely the best example of this but there are others like Sophia, Andrea and Dale’s deaths dropping what were otherwise deeply interesting characters in the comics.
They turned the walkers into an annoyance and background noise for the season by season bad guy narrative. Those kind of one season arc type shows are old and tired to me.
Totally agree about the action feeling weightless as the show progressed to later seasons. You felt so much weight when the farm was attacked, but in that season 8 episode where Hilltop is attacked (Do not send us Astray episode) the whole battle felt...weightless and totally forgettable.
Oh damn just based on that title I do not agree in the slightest. Thrones for me was monumentally more disappointing. The ending of Thrones make it hard to rewatch even the good stuff. That being said I love your videos and can’t wait to hear your take!
Idk, I feel the same exact way about both. Recently rewatched GoT, still absolutely loved the first seasons despite the horrific ending. I got so locked in that I finally even went through all the extra lore books 😅 Same with TWD - could rewatch the first seasons on loop forever, but as soon as I get to season 7ish, I start rolling my eyes more and more 😬
@@Koroto that’s totally fair - I think my tolerance for BS is stronger for sure. For me the difference is where as the characters in TWD became massive Flanderizations by the end they at least retained that. Dany flipping at the end felt to me like a complete departure from who she was. Maybe that’s why I feel that way. Here’s hoping Kirkman gets his wish and we get an animated adaption in 20 years!
@@JosephMichael Nah the first two seasons of TWD had some of the best dialogue in a show so consistent and tastefully written. Then the writer who made it all happen got fired around season 2 after that they started using character deaths as fuel to keep the show going. And the cracks started to show in season 5. And the charm of the show was completely gone by s7 20 hour long episodes of vapid writing somehow sold by the likes of Andrew Lincoln, Norman and jeffrey dean morgan.
@@blakan1478 oh no yeah the quality dropped no denying that. I stand by most things Koroto brings up in his retrospectives like bottle eps and what not. My point was more so for me personally GoT was more egregious.
@@lifeloverNorris Eh more likely that the people who are still watching the walking dead and also taking their time to review it on imdb, are also the same people who are not likely to voice criticism for the show. Walking Dead is pretty much irrelevant besides the people who are still somewhat invested in it for nostalgia reasons.
So I wouldn’t say it was as disappointing as game of thrones considering the story at least ended up where I wanted it to conceptually. Rick essentially saves the world and comes full circle finding his family. My problem however is the execution to get to that was awful. Game of thrones failed in execution and the final result as well imo
his family is carl , carl was his drive , and what made his character , andrew lincoln said himself he feels "the only way for rick's story to end , is for rick to die and carl to take his place" (paraphrased btw) , even though he made new connections , carl is the center of his world , the writing was all around horrible and lacked commitment and didn't care about the characters anymore , just about meaningless spectacle , and they just killed off or wrote off any character that had meaning (other than a couple) and judith is shane's daughter but sure he accepted her as his own , he doesn't even know rj exists / has never met him , and michonne is just michonne , doesn't compare to carl just my thoughts , i'd say walking dead was far more disappointing , but i guess it was less of a blow because of how it was overtime
People did drop off of the show because of Glen's death. He was one of the few reasons myself and several other people I know even bothered to watch it anymore - TWD was so bad by that point that he literally carried the show on his shoulders. We were invested in him heavily since the start of the show and basically only continued watching to see where he went from there, since all the other decent characters were dead or destroyed by the writing. We literally just did not care what happened to the rest of the group. I think I watched an extra episode past that, but then the stupidity of the RV scene with Rick on the roof getting that axe was too much for me and I dropped it for years. Recently went back to re-watch the (AMAZING) first few seasons and sunk cost fallacy had me follow through this time. My husband still refuses to watch the show again.
Glenn was one of the fan favorites but... carried the show? Glenn never carried the show on his shoulders there are dozens of better characters, the show died because of shit writing not becauseof Glenn.
@@Diogo_7237 If you think there are dozens of better characters from the show before his death, fine, but for those of us who thought he was the best without exception, yeah he was the reason we stopped watching. The bad writing was evident before and jumped off after, but like one of those action movies where everything explodes for no reason, you just kind of swallow your disbelief and enjoy the spectacle in the moment. For me and lots of others, Glenn was the thing we sat through everything else for because we genuinely enjoyed his story, so when he died we lost almost all interest in it. Imagine watching a cheesy 80's action flick unironically but there's no explosions, fire, one liners, or racing scenes. You COULD, and you might even find yourself enjoying parts of it, but most of the experience would just be disappointing and painful. Glenn was the last character who really embodied what the first few seasons were about, for us - he wasn't a zombie killing action hero, he was the sneaky guy, down to earth, reasonable, cared for others, smart, but also goofy. He still felt like a real, genuine person stuck in the setting that we identified with for that. That's the great thing about having a big group of characters in a show, generally - everyone who watches it can find one or two they identify with and grow attached to. I think it's great that you had lots of others you liked. But for me and many other people, the one character we felt most close to was killed in a brutal cliffhanger ending right at one of the peaks of his character in terms of interest - Maggie being pregnant and having issues with the baby immediately after he took his first human life - for really stupid reasons. We had the duplicating Saviors who we were already sick of seeing by that point and just wanted to move on, and were looking forward to seeing how Glenn dealt with fatherhood or the loss of fatherhood in the apocalypse. They took Chekov's gun right off the wall and shot him with it, and a lot of people felt betrayed by that, especially after the dumpster scene where Glenn activated his plot armor. We were essentially told by the story that he's one of the MAIN main characters for realsies and he can't die, only for him to die what felt like almost immediately after. For me personally it didn't really help that my second favorite character was Abraham and he ALSO died at the same time as Glenn in the same way. Daryl is the last one I care about but he's got 15 different layers of plot armor and somehow made it to France now so he's immortal.
I’ve watched most of the series several times over(up until season 7) and continued watching them release on tv with my family but just kind of puttered out just before the series final, haven’t gone back because I felt the passion, the story, characters, and smaller plot lines between them seemed uninspired and unnecessary. Which sucks because it started so strong, the flow of the seasons and the struggle of understanding and empathizing with both points of view kept us all captivated. By the end it just felt redundant in a sense. The risk of taking a big step forward kept them in this phase of renewing the same threads with new faces after killing too many for shock value
I mostly enjoyed the ones who live save for a couple cheesy lines and the end of the CRM being underwhelming, but I love to hear your thoughts on this show no matter what and you make such good points I usually respect and understand your view point. Looking forward to watching this with some pizza :)
I really hated how the series built up the CRM to be some sort of elite military force only to have them be a complete paper tiger. But in general I don't think most writers know how to depict a professional military force so that is hardly a problem that is unique to TWD. Pretty often the depiction becomes a pretty cartoonish distortion of how the writers think a military force acts.
The grenade from the season one show was a grenade meant to cause a big explosion explosion. The grenade thrown at Rick way later was a shrapnel grenade. Way less concussion blast and more pieces flying around
Yes . . . like fireman were disrespected by Halloween . . . All the problems with the actual show, and yours is the most pathetic way to look at it. Fuck off and grow up
I'm glad I dropped TWD in season 3 or 4 (don't even remember exactly when lmao), that way I couldn't be let down by the ending and just the whole show in general.
I dropped off around the beginning of season 8. The show felt like it was spinning its wheels by that point and I wasn’t getting excited for the show anymore. I came back to it later because I wanted to get caught up before the Rick and Michonne show came out. After TOWL I feel like I can let the franchise go. Rick and Michonne made it back to their kids and feel like that’s a good enough ending for the tv universe.
While the franchise hasn't maintained the wonder it once had, can't we just say its had a great run instead of it being some sort of failure or disappointment? Overall it is an amazing series.
I agree with you on the main show totally. They obviously had no idea where they were going with it after like season 7-8, I think that’s a part of why Andrew Lincoln left (yes also to spend more time with his family). But it was a clearly a sinking ship and he bailed at the right time. I stopped watching after his “death” and then before the ones who live came out I watched the other seasons just in case there was anything I needed to no (there wasn’t). However i personally really enjoyed the ones who live, maybe it’s just because I love Andrew as Rick grime so fucking much and it was so damn good to see him again but I liked it. I agree the ending was pretty over the top, I honestly thought it was setting up for a season 2 where Rick gets back with the main group and then they have to deal with the CRM. But no, they just wrapped it up as fast as they could with a very unrealistic “Rick and michone kill them all in 20 minutes. I think it would have been really cool to get more into the CRM and have the crew back together against them… also if this really is the last time we see Andrew play Rick grimes I’m pretty pissed. Yes he got reunited with his family that’s great but what about Daryl? I know there’s a season 2 coming for him but it seems super unlikely Rick would be involved. Anyways… yeah the show slowly dyed and that sucked but I did enjoy the Rick michone reunion a lot, it was really just that last episode that was almost confusing. Like u really expect us to believe the took down the largest army in (as far as we know) the world in one episode, but in the main show the negan war goes on for TWO FUCKING SEASONS!? Idk.. I guess we’ll see what happens next but I don’t have big hopes. But it is crazy to think I remember watching the first episode and I was in high school at the time. I’m 30 now and still somewhat invested in what happens to the characters. There’s going to be a Daryl carol reunion we already know that… but past that, wtf are the doing? The Maggie began show sucked in my opinion and it’s obviously getting another season. I just wish they could wrap it all back up and end it with something worth watching…but again not a lot of hope for that. It’s sad.
The biggest problem I have with TWD is the season finale wasn’t really a finale. It was a set up episode for all the spin offs. AMC absolutely milked TWD for every penny they could with no care to quality.
Everyone says this, but how exactly? Daryl, Negan, Maggie, and the Commonwealth, got satisfying conclusions, and of course TOWL was teased in what was essentially a post-credits scene. 11x24 acted more as a finale than a "setup episode."
This is definitely annoying but not one of their worst sins in handling TWD imo
@@TheFerg714 I think if the final shot of the show (besides rick) wasn't Daryl leaving to start a new adventure, especially one we were promised we'd see, I'd agree with you here. The final two scenes (now including Rick) are pure setup, and that's the final taste they left in everyone's mouth on the mothership show. Still a great episode just... annoying
@@scottsspot But Daryl wasn't "starting a new adventure" in that scene. He was simply going on a run to recruit people, which was honestly the perfect ending for him.
@@TheFerg714 what are the context clues to support that? Because if that's what they were going for it was terribly done. You dont make a "run" feel as "final" as him riding off into the sunset. I mean right before, Maggie is telling him we need to expand and see the world. It felt 110% like a sendoff
Carl dying was what killed the whole show. Though i do agree the problems were adding up over time. But it was carls death that broke the camels back. God why did they do that lol
Absolutely, I've said it a million times but comic book Carl is my favorite TWD character period, and the show butchered all his big moments and then killed him before the whisperer arc which imo has some of his most interested and awesome moments
Yup lol when Carl died my favorite comic moments i was hoping for died with him
If I remember correctly but I could be wrong, I wanna say the actor playing Carl wanted to go back amd focus on school or something like that
@@chocolatefudgebrowni3225 that was a rumor, he literally bought a house closer to set and was fired shortly after. Nothing to do with school
That's when I stopped watching
I love that you touched on how deep we actually are into the apocalypse by the end of the show. When they decided to have a time skip after Andrew Lincoln's departure of like what was it 5 years? That's basically when I stopped watching. There were plenty of other reasons and arguably the show got better once the showrunners changed.
Unfortunately they really thought they could just skip ahead years to decades and act like nothing changed. To act as if there could still be groups of completely innocent and not hardened people around 10 years after the entire world collapsed.
Negan was in isolation for 5 years with 0 pyscho consequence, very unrealistic
@@IIIISai Didn't Rick talk to him like once a week with news and stuff. Also couple of others did too probably.
@@LordKeram maybe but he had 24hrs to himself, times that by 1700 days
@@IIIISai
Y’all are forgetting how he befriended Judith, meaning I assume she brought him books etc, stuff to do that kept him busy. Rick stopped by, so did Michonne, so did Carol, and I guarantee Daryl did a few times as well.
That’s one of the things about the show I’m not upset about, Negan’s state of mind. You wouldn’t go literally crazy when you have interactions with people weekly.
My brother was put in isolation/solitary for 8mos while in prison.
He said as long as he could pray, read the Bible and other books, and exercise in his cell, he was fine.
Not seeing people bothered him somewhat, but not as much as you’d think.
Ppl being thrown into solitary as POW’s is a completely diff story in the real world. It’s much more terrible than solitary in prison.
Negan wasn’t an actual psychopath or sociopath before they threw him in there ya know. My point is, ppl who are mentally ill are usually ALREADY that way before put into confinement under fairly decent & humane conditions 🤷🏼♀️
@@jacks1bonnielass thats a beautiful story and breakdown fair enough, I guess what I wanted was some type of adjustment, it felt too quick, the shows timeskip also never made us feel the true solitary, fair enough tho, how big was your brothers cell btw
Don’t forget the fact it’s apocalypse and everyone has infinite ammunition
Bruh. And you never seee them make their own ammunition or mine the stuff needed for gunpowder.
You can make somekind diy gunpowder with urea and ash ( look up how confederates, rebels etc did that during Us civil war) @@FrancisBurns
Well to be fair, this is America. We've got enough guns and ammo for several generations lol
@@123LORDOFHELL and i think military has stockpiles of ammo. People would eventually raid every place
They legit hardly used guns in season 9 cuz they got set back and started using bows n shit again and before that they were using eugenes method for making bullets
In the final analysis: Frank Darabont should've never been fired.
Thank you.
for real.
Thank you so much for writing "should've", not "should of" like all the illiterates on the internet would've done. 😃👍
@@SupremeGreatGrandmaster not all of us are good at grammar, you don't have to be like that.
@@AbrasiousProductions It was a compliment! I was praising the man for his correct spelling.
This is why shanes actor jon bernthal stopped watching lmao
He is literally me
The saviors multiplying killed me
Fr. I think that issue started once the got to Alexandria and only got worse once they introduced the other communities and the saviors.
You watch a community get absolutely massacred with a significant number of people dying and then suddenly a bunch more survivors just kinda appear and we’re supposedly always there.
I understand that that kind of thing is mostly due to logistic and budgetary restrictions on TV shows, but it still totally brings me out of the show. Completely eliminates the stakes and connect the viewer has with these groups.
The worst offense was the Commonwealth supposedly having a 50k+ population, yet we only ever saw maybe 20-30 people on screen at any given time. Also they reused that one set location to death. Didn’t feel immersive or real
I read that the lack of crowds for the commonwealth was due to Covid restrictions. Once restrictions were lifted could they then have bigger crowd scenes.
I kinda stopped liking the show after season 5 finale but kept watching until the saviors get introduced along with the hilltop and kingdom all the sudden multiple cities of people just appear outta nowhere
Yea I agree that was so dumb. First Rick has no issues dealing with the saviors, then all of a sudden there's thousands of them in the area and Rick is hopelessly out numbered? Yea right lol
Such a dumb way to handle things
I dropped off for Rick's "final" episode. I was always an avid believer of this being Rick's story, so it should end with Rick (like the comic did), or pass the torch to Carl. Seeing as it did neither, I decided to make Rick's last episode my own finale to the series. Ngl it was very depressing seeing the show's decay in real time. I went from watching this series with my family as a weekly occurrence as a kid, speculating and talking about future events with my friends in high school, to sitting alone in my college dorm half paying attention and just scrolling through my phone as I was given bottle episode after bottle episode post Negan. I was definitely one of the last people in my community that stuck with that show, and even I couldn't escape from that indifference feeling leading up to Rick's final episode :/. I think my dad fell off around Alexandria, the rest of my family actually did fall off post Glenn's death, and most of my friends stopped watching during All Out War.
Aw
This describes me a lot too, i was 7 when the show started then i watched the last few episodes in my college dorm, my entire family watched till Glenn died, then it was only me till the end, i still like TWD, but nothing can beat those early days.
Thats when I was done to, but I felt the Show ended after Negan. It just wasnt about Surviving Zombies anymore. Once Zombies where no longer a real threat, it just wasnt the same Show.
I feel that pain, too. This was an amazing series in its prime.
I wish I'd done what you did, watching TWD without rick just felt pointless
For the longest time I thought I had stopped watching after Glenn. After re-watching the whole show, in order to see the seasons I hadn't, I had apparently watched about half of season 8. I just did not remember any of it.
U soft af lmao, but s7 quality is garbage anyways
i stopped after Negans defeat... i remember everyone at my job at the time coming in every week hooked on the show. I loved Negan belittling Rick then the old grimmy Rick coming out. Loved all the Savior chars too... once he beat all of them I felt like it was a perfect ending to the show. Next season I kindof fell back more and more also changed jobs so maybe thats it. I just not a fan of shows that go on forever. Thats why i was a fan of all those HBO shows like The Wire and stuff because it was long but not long
Problem is they didn't replace any of those who died with interesting characters. I can remember most of the deaths/characters in the first bunch of seasons. Everyone new after that sucked. For example Tara who was the sole survivor from her town joins the group that killed them... That's a gold mine of interesting development but no they just sideline her until we don't care anymore.
@@zebwiz1900a lot of the female characters got pretty one dimensional over time as well. Sasha, Tara, Maggie, Rosita, Michonne (mostly). Felt like Carol was the only female character who’s story actually mattered to the plot and was constantly developing
@@tuelzalt it got better after that. S9 was good. S10 was OK, but S11 was atrocious lmao.
They killed Chandler Riggs off because he was older and they would have to pay him as an adult and not a child actor anymore. The man purchased a house in Atlanta. Same shit Happened to Beth
Emily Kinney was 27 or 28 when she was first cast
@Gamerjman19 I'm saying Emily had bought a house In Atlanta right before she was killed off
@@ichigokurosaki1081 oh my bad, I think I remember that now
Chandler wanted to go to college. He just changed his mind to late for the script to be fixed and him to be kept in the show.
@@kyleellis1825
False
People left after the glen death because of how it happened not because it happened. Killing a character but not revealing who until the next season premiere is wild. I know I only watched that premiere to see who negan killed.
"Killing a character but not revealing who until the next season premiere is wild."
That's not what they did, at least not with Glenn.
Glenn was only in the premiere, not the finale.
You're thinking of Abraham.
@@chippdbanjo Noone died in the finale when they filmed that episode they didn't know who was gonna die, so both Abraham and Glenn died in the premiere, both were revealed in the same bullshit way if they wanted to do better they could have killed one of them in the finale and then Glenn in the premiere as a twist.
@@Diogo_7237 From a first person, we literally see the final moments (and passing) of Abraham.
I wasn't critiquing them saying nobody dies in the finale, it was more the character, since the POV we see is Abraham, not Glenn.
Glenn's death was handled well imo, Abraham's was the issue because of Glenn.
Na thats not why, the quality literally DROPS after s7 premiere, glenn stans mean nothing
@@waynejohnson184 THe main rule of any tv show is not to give a shit about what the viewers want, Glenn was far from being the main favorite character the show would have gone to hell in season 7 and 8 with or without Glenn. The best tv shows in history were not influenced by viewers favorites, as long as it's a good well written story it doesn't matter. The real favorites are still alive and look at how bad the show is, Rick, Daryl, Carol, this Glenn argument is a huge bullshit, people just want to make nonsensical excuses for the show's downhill. If what keeps you watching something is a character, and not the story itself, then you don't like the story, you only like 1 character and that's stupid, people nowadays cry too much online about anything that doesn't fit their needs, it's not your show, you're not the writer, you don't get to tell what the people making it should do, movies and tv shows were much better before the internet.
For me personally, the show was far more interesting when the main threat was the Zombies. The show benefited from having very few people in it because it made the group feel like it was them vs the world, with very little hope of finding other people to help them survive.
As soon as the show started focusing more on the human vs human conflict, and introduced the many different towns and communities, it just lost what made it special.
It became yet another human vs human show, with a bit of a zombie apocalypse sprinkled in.
Don't get me wrong, when human vs human conflict was first brought into the show in season 3 and early season 4, it was a really interesting perspective to see how our characters would handle that, as we had never seen things from that perspective really up to that point.
But as soon as the show focused almost purely on human vs human, for season after season after season, TWD just became unwatchable for me.
I dropped off after Negan was defeated, but well before then I was losing interest.
Retrospectively, I actally now think that the best place to end the series would have been when the group gets to Alexandria.
The human V human conflicts in the earlier seasons worked because of the scale, the sizes of the groups made sense. When they groups lost even a few people it was felt by their communities, it's actually a loss because it's the apocalypse and there's so few people.
The savior seasons onward didn't care about the scale of the groups, just like what he said in this video. No matter how many people died it didn't seem to matter at all, because in the next episode or scene all those people would be replenished plus some lol. It was so poorly done season 7 onward
Except the human versus human conflict was the entire point of TWD series, the novels. The major theme being that even when humanity should become united against a common threat that human nature still makes us see other people as enemies.
Absolutely.. 👍🏻👍🏻 kinda funny you mentioned that they could've finished the show once Rick's group arrives at Alexandria.. because Kirkman actually had thought about that. He said he was really thinking about ending the comic once Rick and Co arrived at Alexandria.
it feels like the show went from a show about surviving the zombie apocalpyse with three dimensional characters to a show where those same people are now caricatures with superhero like skills. TWD universe became a parody of itself
Dropped off because Carl died, it wasn't even me liking the character or the actor, he was okay. His characterization was honestly mostly bad, probably a writing issue. But all that's irrelevant, Carl was the center of the show, without him, Rick doesn't work as a character. Rick doing everything for his Son is the central point of his character, its why you can watch Rick go and do absoultely unhinged fucked up things, and still end up rooting for him, without that element to his character, Rick is just some crazy no stakes action hero. They spent so long building up that bond between him and Carl that without it the show itself died to me, bad quality of s7 and s8 didn't help but at that moment it all just sorta became white noise to me, the characters just became actors, the ongoing story just became a script, and the illusion of the world being real was shattered, and this wasn't even for a character I even particularly liked. Just one of the worst writing decisions ever made in the history of Television really.
It didn’t drop off because Carl died
Preech
When negan started crying and got cut i almost dropped the shoe
Yep agreed. You know I hated Glens death, but i could accept his death a lot more then Carls surprisingly simply based off what you said.
Carl was also being set up as the man to carry the torch After Rick. Even in the Comics Carl lives on. Lots of build up for Carl snd it was ALL wasted…. The way they killed him off was lazy as fuck. I still liked season 8 to a degree but his death nearly ruined it for me.
This. Carls death did it for me. He was finally made to be not annoying and they’re like epp time to go bc it will subvert expectations!!! Glens death we knew was coming. Carl? Why.
CORAL!!!! Noooooo!!!
This show felt less like a show and more like a video game campaign now that i think about it
Seeing the 50cal shooting a jeep and pinging off of it is WILD. That's not plot armor, that's a plot FORCEFIELD.
I tried to watch this, but that opening scene of him cutting off his hand in the most contrived way possible just broke me
The straw that broke the camel's back for me was killing Carl
Agreed. I quit watching at that point as well. I did finally finish the show last year but it never recaptured what made it compelling in the first place.
His death was so pointless. Carl might not have been the best character but he was slowly getting better near the end. His build up was getting better. He could have been set up to be the man to carry the torch after Rick,
@@austinclark5278 exactly! i don't blame Chandler because he started when he was young and i couldn't imagine myself in his position, but i think that made Carl more relatable.
The walking dead fans trying not to talk how killing of Carl destroyed the show for 5 minutes: Mission Impossible.
I don’t get it. Everyone hated Carl before that, but then pretended him dying ruined a show that was already terrible for years.
I just loved the whole atmosphere of the show around Daryl's brother presence and the time Eugenes group allied with Rick. The brother added such a rich uncertainty of a risky element you never knew where was going, and he was also that stereotypical dumb selfish army guy you expect to see, just loved his character and idk why
I always found it funny just how similar Walking Dead & Game of Thrones really are.
1. Both created as an answer to their traditional genres respectively. Robert Kirkman said he always wanted to see what happened next after a zombie movie ends and Martin's work is basically the post-modern answer to Tolkien's setting.
2. Both found a niche audience.
3. Both picked up by a major network.
4. Both a crappy showrunners, yet still had great seasons.
5. Both began to decline halfway through.
6. Both began to dumb down the storyline and simplify the characters.
7. Both have spinoffs planned. (I'm much more interested in GOT'S Spinoffs)
P.S. I also would like an animated series based off the comic that's more faithful. But yes, Kirkman would to be fully in charge and the spinoffs would need to be cancelled.
8. Both NEED an Animated Adaptation
@@damonlongstreet8630 Yes. Thank you. I knew I forgot something. 👍
No
Also, both shows decided they were better off without the creators’ input and severed their working relationships. Decline ensued shortly thereafter.
1. They fired Frank early on and it was both a crappy move and not smart.
2. The biggest problem is they wanted "shocker" moments ie - Dale, Andrea, Lorie etc.. deaths.
They literally kill Andrea way early on and she is suppose to be (from my recollection) in Alexandria . Carl gets killed because "well it's the mid or end season finale.. we gotta do something crazy." Their entire decisions were based on charts and demographics;
"We can't kill Daryl.. people will riot.."
"We know the fans love these big moments.. who we gonna kill next?"
"well they gotta get here.. even though this character is dead."
They were so worried about keeping interest with these emotional / shocker moments they really screwed things over. I would be willing to bet if they didn't off characters left and right , then the most iconic death (Glenn) wouldn't have turned non comic fans off so much, especially since he had a "fake death" prior.
The comics did well because they were well written and well thought out overall.
AMC had great source material and decided to go so far off the rails and became needlessly greedy, they shot themselves in the foot.
Had they stuck to the comics, I would bet anything the show woulda have MUCH better viewership toward the end.
That’s why I only like the first few seasons. All that other shit I was like aight ima head out
Loris death was fine, and yall dramatize glenns fake death it was hilarious
@@Whooptywoop 💀
@@IIIISaihilarious does not mean good lol.
clearly they wanted adversity, as if the show didn't have enough. You cant have white family in a show anymore, that would be too racist.
Seasons 1-6 (And S7E1) was incredible. Then the rest of season 7 happened… I don’t know how it managed to fall off so hard.
S9 was good actually. S10 was ok. S11 was trash lol.
@@drlca6601 I used to say this. I still like Season 9 but its nothing compared to the first 6. The show was still a shadow of itself
Tbh season 6 is when I started noticing problems and began questioning the show
@TheReelHeel Yep. Exactly what I thought, too. S7E2 and onwards was a steeeep drop-off. Like, almost historically so..
Btw, love the profile name 👍🏻🤷🏻♂️
@@TheReelHeel oh agreed... S9 is more like a scifi/age of empires mix, which is cool, but it's nowhere near the tone and quality of the first six, 1-4 especially. Even those seasons had terrible bouts of unevenness after S3x04. S2B is by far my favourite. S9 (post-Rick) and most of S10 are almost a different animal entirely. Here's Negan is one of the top episodes of the show, but that's because it's so similar in tone to the first few seasons, with the beginning of the outbreak and all. Unfortunately, in S11 the show completely falls apart after the Washington storyline. The Reapers were horrible enemies lmao. The Commonwealth was awful as well. Funnily enough, I would still rate S11 higher than the awful dumpster fire that was S7-8 (minus 7x01.) I haven't seen RIck's new show yet, but I hope it's decent.
I assume you haven't seen Dexter but it literally has two bad endings like they made the first one bad and then when they tried to fix it they made it even worse interestingly Dexter is also based on a book
I still can’t believe new bloods ending was somehow even far worse than season 8s ending. It’s actually unbelievable still too me😂😂it had to be done on purpose
Punctuation
New Blood was a even bigger kick to the nuts, because it had the advantage of building up to a new finale for years. Huge stakes too since we knew this would be the end where Dexter gets caught. The season was quite good but they really dropped the ball into the fkin abyss with that ending. The original showrunner returned for New Blood and he had a great ending in mind for the original series before he left, I don't know wtf happened.
The “special” walker thing also kinda goes to show that the writers or execs or whoever is really big on that decision kinda misses the point of the source material. The zombies are entirely superfluous. They’re just a mechanism for the story to happen and a force of nature that the characters have to deal with
Glenn's death was the beginning of the end for me. When Rick was flying away on the helicopter after the bridge being blown up was the final episode I ever watched. I jumped back in and watched Here's Negan during the pandemic..but that was that.
a short from that episode convinced me to try after quitting in S8 and taking like six years off from the show maybe longer. I skipped to the end of S8, which was OK, but I'm glad I tried because S9, while wildly different, more sci-fi like in the devolution of their technology, was actually quite good. S10 was OK and finished off the momentum of the post-Rick era nicely, but kind of fizzes out with the Commonwealth as the budget really shows there... so S11 really misses the mark, which was idiotic as it should've ended with a bang for all the spinoffs, but hey this is AMC. S9 is definitely entertaining.
TLDR: I went back and watched S9-11 after quitting in S8. While the new non-Rick show is not nearly as good as S1-4, it has its merits, especially if you're out of things to watch. S9 is especially good, even after Rick's solid first three eipsodes.
@@drlca6601I personally kinda like non rick seasons especially season 9 but I always felt that something is missing and seasons 9-11 would be much better with rick
The fucking spinoffs make zero since, I binged the walking dead during covid quarantine from school and i was so confused when michonne left, Because it literally destroys her character, shed neve leave her fucking kids in this world to go look for a man who can handle himself , its rick fucking grimes, shes seen him do some impossible shit, your kids need you more. Daryl leaving rick and michonnes kids also makes zero since, hed die for those kids like they were his own, hed never leave them without his protection when he knows rick and michonne arent there, what if another fucking Negan comes around to kill everyone? Like some of the decisions they make literally makes no sense. These characters wouldn't of done this when they were in this primes and felt invincible (post prison, pre negan) but they would do it knowing the horrors of this world and having kids and shit?
Daryl was basically the leader after Rick and Michonne, and his leaving is basically letting any villain come around and do whatever he wants, sure Carol’s there, but she’s just one woman and she needed Daryl and others most of the time to help her protect other people
Agreed, finally somebody understands this. A.M.C has & will continue to milk this crap into the ground. Walking Dead needs new characters & direction now.
FTWD was honestly the only good spin-off, yeah it had it's downs but least it ended far better than the original and actual fan service, yes it was also inconsistent and season 8 was boring, there were only two great episodes. It felt more survival oriented than the original show and each season had a different theme and setting.
I truly understand and agree. Leaving your kids alone is horrible, let alone a ZOMBIE APOCALYPTIC world setting, I don’t care if it’s for your love, your children are your life. Ps I love TOWL it’s ending. I’m done with the TWD now, but I completely agree dude
@@justinpatton6996 I honestly think covid killed the revival of the walking dead because season 9 was fucking awesome in my opinion and then in season 10 the show felt soo empty, all the familiar background characters disappeared, which made the show feel so small. Like the episode where Alexandria was flooding, we saw like 8 people in Alexandria freaking out and all of them were in the main cast, what happened to all those background characters like the bald black guy ? I know its a weird nitpick but it made the show feel sooooo much smaller
Negan had that Thanos ability to multiply his soldiers
personally i didn't watch season's 10 and 11, but i picked the show back up for rick and michonne given it was the one plotpoint i cared about, i liked it more than.. most people seem to.. because it was, whilst not perfect and obviously contrived, giving me everything i really wanted out of the tv universe now, an ending, and i feel, even if ik they're gonna continue this on for like 5 more spinoffs atleast, i got an ending with rick seeing his kids again. and i'm fine with that as an ending.
I dropped off because none of the recent spin-offs are available anywhere apart from the US for some fucking reason
Yup, been vpning for years now. With the recent Helldivers situation too, I have no idea how a company of their size can't have licensing figured out in 2024 💀
They might be coming soon on Now TV so there's that
The ones who lives is available now in UK and it’s a quality show (I hated seasons 11)
@@kiandl6368 5 months after it officially came out, people have been spoiled to hell and back by now and probably seen clips all over the internet of it. Whats the point in a schedule like that, and what is their excuse for it in a digital age?
For real? They shafted you all? Trust me, though.. you ain't missing much. The spin-offs are mostly just IP Milking.
I left when rick "died" when blowing up the bridge, the show felt weird for a moment at that point and i thought that's a good moment to drop the show, i watched like one episode of next season and decided that that's not it anymore, but i did rewatch like first 4/5 seasons 3 times
When I saw that last episode, I was like after all those years of building up the CRM they ended it like that? They should have let Rick join the CRM and keep it going.
I think the only hope for the Walking Dead IP or, Universe (TV included) is:
- a comic 1-1 animated adaptation
- a Telltale Walking Dead adaptation
- or, a separate story with new characters and a different location
Only if Amc loses the right.
And NOO, leave Clem alone they trying to ruin her enough already.
At this point, I don’t think a new story/setting would work. Unless it was GOOD GOOD. It’s automatically gonna have a bias on it by general audiences by having The Walking Dead sticker attached to it. Also the fact that they tried this with Fear but it wasn’t pulling the numbers they wanted so they tied it into the main show. Comic accurate versions of an adaptation of the games would be good but like stated in the video, Kirkman would need full creative control for it to work properly, which is doable, but AMC is going to put up a big fight and it’s likely years away from being close to happening
1-1 comic adaptation but keep the original actors. i would LOVE to see jdm act out comic negan or andrew doing the “we are not the walking dead” speech
These 3 would be great. In fact, I'd say the Daryl show is that separate story/characters cuz it's just him (and now Carol). A comic adaptation and telltale adaptation would be incredible
On the last one, just adapt the novels. It would be very interesting to see Woodbury and the Prison from a different perspective.
That clip with the guy writing fire gets me every damn time😅😅😅
Thats Gunna the snitch
After binging Lost, seeing Terry O'Quinn interact with Andrew Lincoln seems like a fever dream
The show ended for me when Rick left. It was his story. Years later i watched some of the Whisperers storyline and i absolutely hated it.
For me it were many things right from season 2:
1. The sluggish and uninteresting nature of the human drama.
2. Poor balance action, horror and drama.
3. Terrible pace of the episodes.
4. Zombies being background cannon fodder for 90% of the whole show.
5. Too many characters.
6. Characters not grounded in reality.
7. Staying too faithful to the comics in the wrong things, straying too far from the comics in also the wrong things.
8. Unrealistic survival elements like clothes, haircuts, food, ammunition being always an available resource.
9. Uninteresting subplots for most characters.
10. The yo-yo episodes between past and present, and episodes focused on just one character were all awfully done.
11. The setting feeling that most episodes went nowhere, that at the end of most episodes things end exactly as they started.
12. Rick's character being dragged to the mud, they didnt know what to do with him. Was aimless.
13. Villains overstaying too long.
14. Bringing back Morgan and it led absolutely nowhere.
15. FTWD started well, but they had to blend it with TWD resulting in crashing FTWD and adding more problems to TWD.
16. A myriad of spin offs announced.
17. Killing off Carl.
18. The obsession with killing off male characters and make TWD mostly a female centered show.
19. In result of this, siding off Rick.
20. The end was absolutely terrible.
36:25 "special Walkers in Europe" is so funny on too many levels. It is like zombie virus deliberately engineered apocalupse around US and put better walkers in the different continent so US survivors can have their post apo expansion pack. They took a comic trying to be realistic and dramatic story about people trying to survive in zombie apocalypse and turned it into bloody MMO
I just love how Jadis is, but when she got bit, It's as if those old RPGs where she suddenly sat down and just start monologuing. It's so surreal and got me laughing
Niegains is the most confusing self insert character - he has a random gaggle of goons who are sometimes in the hundreds and super well armed and sometimes just half a dozen guys with sharp sticks. He overpowers the main characters mostly due to their own incompetence and guns mysteriously becoming super rare. He often says super meta lines as if hes read the scripts for the season and knows what happens.
So I know that the ones who live could have definitely done the last episodes better because they did feel rushed, but I genuinely think that that side series explored marital problems and Rick and Michonne's dynamic better than anything in the entire walking Dead saga ever. I legitimately think, that ever since the show came out of its prime, that side series is the best thing that has come out since then. I love that side series
As a fan since day 1 I understood why people left after Rick "died". But sticking through the pain and seeing the finale of ones who lives did some redemption for me
I dropped off after the end of the main show. All these years and seasons and it ends with Daryl riding off into the sunset with no major plot points resolved so they might as well have just have a giant anvil fall on the main cast after they reached Alexandria
I disagree on the thrones imploding suddenly thing. It had cracks that formed around the midway point but managed to keep some quality till later on but the last season was SOOOO bad people forget the issues with seasons 4-7. Ill never forgive the dorne disgrace or the lack of lady stoneheart and feagon
I think of a lot of the changes GoT made in the same way I think of a lot of the changes TWD made - it's sort of a threshold.
TWD, for example, immediately dabbled with the CDC and the origins of the virus - something that was a huge no-no with the overall themes of the comic. But because the big picture was still really strong, you can excuse it.
Same for GoT, they removed A LOT of the magic and mysticism right from the get-go (like 99% of the Stark-warg storyline is removed outright), but again, because the rest of the story was super strong, you can excuse it.
But with both shows, like I mentioned in the video, once they break the illusion, you start to look back and notice a lot more things that you would've previously excused, like the CDC, like Terminus, like the Stark wolves, like Lady Stoneheart, like John being dumbed down etc etc. Then again, obviously this is all just based on vibes, so that's just how I see it. For me, GoT burned their goodwill a lot faster than TWD.
@@Koroto I definitely see what you're saying, twd definitely went against the source in bigger ways earlier and got had a bigger and more sudden turn from most fans perspective. Ive just always thought people have rosed tinted glasses for the moddle seasons of thrones. It was still good but definitely already on a decline, but the last season fully fell off a cliff so it takes most of the heat when it comes to the issues. I completely agree with the overall point i just think there was a slow decent before the big drop, but that doesn't really change the end outcome😂
@@Koroto i think both shows made the same kind of mistakes but twd started its downhill slide earlier and there was never really the big drop off, so there isnt as much of a moment fans turned and people are more likely to forget the flaws before that big drop at the last season because of it is more what i was trying to say
S5 was the start of the downfall. THE dorne plot, Littlefinger giving Sansa to the Boltens and on top George himself coming out say he would Never do something that stupid.
@@Koroto how was comics termanius
I actually did fall off after Glenn, but it wasn't his death specifically. They gave him a fake out death, brought him back, then killed him in this brutal fashion, after we found out he was going to be a dad. It was just too much.
As much as I love the TWD franchise I would say that by TWD season 10 they were milking a cow that was practically out of milk because you had so many show exclusive characters and characters that had already died in the book at that point
It became just raw capitalism. You could tell in season 4 that it became filler. That filler diminished the content.
The 100% biggest problem with this show after season 5 is that they decided to keep 16 episode seasons and had to stretch these storylines to insane lengths and introduce horrible side stories. They could’ve wrapped up this entire series in 9 seasons. But they got too greedy
The season 6 Glenn dumpster debacle was the first big moment that took me out of enjoying the show; toying with the audience in place of compelling writing. What outright killed the magic for me, was how season 6 episode 8 ended with teasing how Carl draws walkers attention during 'no way out'. Ending the episode on that cliffhanger, only to start the next episode pretending it never happened was just awful. I lost all respect and confidence in the show. But I kept watching, in naive hope that they wouldn't make the same mistakes with Negan. Well......
The first four episodes of the ones who live were phenomenal. There’s a few issues of course but I think overall they are incredibly solid episodes. Then five and six drove off a cliff with so many stupid plot contrivances, rushed conclusions and unsatisfying story telling.
I personally really enjoyed season 10 and 11. Even though I do agree with the criticism of the characters perhaps being too invincible. On one hand, they’ve been through so much it makes sense that they are experienced enough to get out of most situations but at the same time they do feel far too covered in plot armor at times.
I thought S11 was a great conclusion to the series and the way it ended, while open ended, left off on a hopeful, philosophical positive uplifting note with the whole “were the ones who live” monologue. It just really resonated with me.
After the ones who live though, I think I’m done with this franchise. It’s meant a lot to me and it helped me through a lot of horrible times in my life. But I think at this point I’m just done. The universe will never really have a satisfying conclusion with the way it’s going and I am personally OK with just seeing season 11 as the ending with the ones who lives being a mostly good epilogue even with those last two episodes being really stupid.
Couldn't agree more with u regarding The ones who live. Jadis should've been more of a threat, beale should've been more of a threat and you cut out the cheesy champy dialogue and boom, easy 8 or 9/10 for each episode.
For me I’m just gonna pretend no way out was the end for Twd
@@forthecool I could see that being a good ending
@@rhadpenguin 6 episodes isn’t enough run time for what they wanted to achieve. It should’ve been 8 to 12 episodes imo. And dedicated at least 3 episodes to taking down the CRM and with more help than just rick and michonne.
@@Sev3617 absolutely agree that 8 episodes could've done it. You flesh out the first episode and break it apart by giving more context to what Rick was up too after being taken by the CRM. Then take the time to close the story with more detail and not rush to a close in a single ep.
I have never seen a show tank harder than the walking dead.
So glad I watched this video. I've been screaming how bad these later seasons have been for so long. The worst thing about it is all the carrots they dangle in front of people that never went anywhere just to keep people watching. And then the biggest sell out was the A and B's, which if you watched world beyond, the reasoning was retconned in the ones who live rendering most of world beyond completely meaningless. And it wasn't a good show anyway, the best thing about it was the way it teased a greater power in France and the origins of the outbreak. Ones who live just threw that all out and went with a love story that never ever felt particularly real. In the apocalypse it's more a case of people hooking up with other people just because they're there. After 8 years I felt what drove these characters and what motivated them should feel differently than something as simplistic as a one dimensional love story. Then they tried to portray the CRM as a super bad authoritarian organisation.. which allowed two security risks free reign 😂
TWD's story feels likes it's going backwards in time. I mean, for 5 or 6 seasons it really had an apocalytic atmosphere, as we only follow 'our' group which occasionally encounters friends/foes, and then... bam! Dozens of 'communities' - some very sophisticated, like Commonwealth or CRM - emerge here and there like mushrooms. That feels completely unrealistic. The show 's time-line should have been made the other way around
Little known fact; Saviors and Dothraki have respawns, that's why no one reacts to their replenishing numbers in universe
Didn't stop watching it well at this point I'm just watching it to just know what's happening
Hollywood-Math: 30 attacked, 40 died, 50 survived and won by sheer number.
I really enjoy your perspective, it saves me sooo much time from even being curious about whatever they made after... I dropped off at the end of the main show, I'm not even 100% I watch all of it, I might have missed things somewhere along the middle. I gave them chances to do something with this main story they had been making for years. But, even if I didn't feel it was as bad as dummies and dragons, I mean, Game of Thrones, I still felt it was pretty much meaningless and had little to no satisfaction. So, I wasn't even paying attention anymore to whatever they were doing, enough is enough, even my addiction for audiovisual fiction has a limit. So, many thanks to you for putting this one up together, I can safely keep developing my skills to discard the things I know lead nowhere. Maybe an anime adaptation could be interesting, I do agree on that as well! 😁
Looking back I stopped watching because the comic ended around the same time season 9 ended, and it was very good. Having the contrast of an excellent ending with what felt like a money grab by having Rick's future open ended was probably what did it for me and other comic book fans. It was disappointing knowing we were never getting old man Carl telling the story of Rick Grimes to his daughter, or will ever see a monument for him. Because now it really would make no sense.
TWD comic book is one of my favorite pieces of content ever, I loved the show but stopped watching after the Rick send off. It wasn't until covid when I had nothing to do when I picked up where I left off. I watched the remainder of season 9 and 10 and while I know I watched it I legitimately can't recall what actually happened, maybe it was because I was sick or it was just so bad compared to the comics, because I really enjoyed the whisper arc in them, and that's it. Didn't finish season 11 and never started 12, and it was sad to learn they didn't even end the show properly. I haven't seen any of the new spinoffs, just the first few seasons of Fear.
I was the biggest Walking Dead fans and now I just can't seem to find any kind of interest in the stuff coming out. I like Daryl but he was never main character material. They ruined Negan, my favorite villain. And most importantly to me, they ruined Rick Grimes' legacy
Thank you for saying you’re going to continue the retrospective on the comics ending 🔥 been really looking forward to that
I just want to do some TWD positivity. The Walking Dead tabletop roleplaying game by Free League Publishing is actually amazing and if you like the idea of TWD in Dungeons and Dragons form, it's absolutely worth checking out.
More people know Negan from Tekken than have seen him on the show
This video is amazing WOW. You somehow summed up all my problems with this show do well
I luv your vids! I'm literally the ONLY person I know that's still watching! & honestly, it's just because I wanna see how it ends...I'm too deep in 😅
Yup, that's me. All my friends dropped off years and years ago 😅
At least now I have closure for the Grimes family and I'm sorta done.
@Koroto exactly! Now I just watch put of curiosity. I have no investment lol
Are we all just still watching cuz of the sunken cost fallacy? 🫠
@@XavierRenegadeAngel this is EXACTLY why I'm still watching. Thanks! I didn't know this term until now!
The last episode of the ones who live was the final nail in the coffin for me. The zombies is the only unrealistic thing i want in a zombie show. Michonne and Rick alone taking down a whole military base is more unrealistic than the zombies.
As someone who has never watched walking dead and watched this video completely i would like you applaud 👏 your narration skills
🙇♂️
where are you guys from? im curiohs because as a canadian i never have these issues being right next to america, im wondering what countries get effected by this lol
@@keltongillanders5736no i mean like people who didn't a certain show , why would they be watching a video analysing of downfall and story aspects of a show they didn't watch
That’s a bold title you got there. We shall see
New Korotos Video dropped, my infant son has to wait for his dinner
the show firing chandler riggs bc they didn’t wanna pay him adult salary only to then have to hire 3-4 adults to fill out the storylines in his place is peak stupid
I always found the society aspect of the walking dead quite boring, but it was ok. The problem for me began when they started to save ALL the big fights to seasons hiatus or finales. Not only would take forever to get something cool, but you had to wait even more, cause they would split it.
The walking dead died when the producer said this season is about love
The ones who live Absolutely was not worse than how Game of Thrones ended. Not even close
The Negan and Daryl show was WAY worse
Negan yesh Daryl was great
Daryl wasn't really bad. I mean it's not a masterpiece buts it's enjoyable. Dead City I can agree wasn't great even though it should've been
Tbh I just find the Daryl Show super dull and boring, and Dead City is just pretty whatever for me
My opinion as someone who started TWD and GOT later than most:
- I didn’t read the comics or the books until AFTER I’ve watched a good chunk of both shows. Therefore, I did not have any expectations about plots and no pre-attachment to any comic character; therefore I was a lot more forgiving to certain questionable choices they’ve made for the show. But I do understand how books/ comics fans would feel, as I felt the same with the HP live-action as well.
- When I started watching the shows, I was able to binge watch, or at least, the next episode is available for me anytime I wanted. I didn’t have to wait a whole year/ season or be hyped up / scared about the fate of my favorite characters. So I wasn’t upset about certain character’s death like a majority of fandom were. And a good chunk of watchers who were able to binge watch share this sentiment as well. So I do believe their biggest downfall is the marketing in between seasons 6-7, had I experienced it in real time, I would have been disappointed.
- Next point that I see a lot of fans were upset about was Glenn’s “dumpster-gate”. I wasn’t mad over that. But only because I didn’t have time to process it. I was binge-watching, so I was going through the series as fast-paced as the characters were in real time. It’s chaotic, it’s moving on so fast, I didn’t have a whole week to dissect it and think about it, because by the next day I was already at a different scene, worrying about different people and different things.
- Carl’s death: I was sad, I cried a lot. But remember, I didn’t know the comic’s plot. I didnt have the expectation that Carl was gonna be the ONE. I didn’t know Judith was supposed to die. So I didn’t share the sentiment most fans shared “how could they kill Carl, Carl is supposed to be the one to make the show” The way I processed it was Oh crap they killed Carl, I’m so sad, I wish it didn’t happen. But Rick still got Judith to carry his legacy, and perhaps one day him and Michonne might have kids and become the leaders of the future. I was hopeful.
- I love JDM so much, I’ve loved him as Denny Duquette, I’ve loved him exceptionally as John Winchester, and I am amazed with his Negan’s performance. But I was disappointed that he didn’t die. It doesn’t fit the build-up and the narrative of the group. I felt betrayed.
- Which led me to one of my most unpopular opinion: I love Daryl, but Daryl getting out of everything unscathed is so blatantly fan-service at its finest. It made the show a lot less scary, and predictable. I slept through most of s8. S9 was redemption for me.
- Then 11 came around and I was just more confused than ever. So many new enemies, so rushed. The whole Saviors plot was so stretched out when it could have made into less episodes to give time to properly introduce other enemies.
- I did enjoy Commonwealth. For the first time since forever, I felt like “how tf are we going to defeat these people” but then again, the whole thing was rushed, it was over so fast and it didn’t make sense at all lol. But I do agree with a lot of fans, that the season finale was more of a set up for everyone’s spin-offs. I don’t plan on watching the spin-off, so I was left disappointed because a lot of things were blatantly ignored without a proper explanation and the cast didn’t have a proper send off.
But overall, all the bads did not weight out the goods for me, I rewatched s1-4 A LOT, and I didn’t have to wait for S7 premiere or the whole disappointment of s8. So I didn’t have time to stew in resentment but I was able to get to enjoy the show as a whole. And it’s one of my favorite shows.
Some parts were so so amazing some weren’t but I overall really liked it
Zombies quickly became an afterthought. Instead we got endless interpersonal drama.
Would love to see the “Invincible treatment” for TWD
People say Carl’s death killed the TV show but that’s just part of the greater issue the show had of not following its source material. It’s more forgivable with GOT because they ran out of material, but the walking dead comics had an amazing storyline and ending. What annoyed me constantly about the show was how it would stray from the original storyline into a worse one. Carl’s death is definitely the best example of this but there are others like Sophia, Andrea and Dale’s deaths dropping what were otherwise deeply interesting characters in the comics.
Honestly, I couldn't even watch it during Season 2. That farm filtered me hard. In hindsight, I'm glad I got off this wild ride early.
They turned the walkers into an annoyance and background noise for the season by season bad guy narrative. Those kind of one season arc type shows are old and tired to me.
@@Joe45-91The zombies were never the point of TWD, they were always a storytelling device. Kirkman made this clear as early as he could in the books
Totally agree about the action feeling weightless as the show progressed to later seasons. You felt so much weight when the farm was attacked, but in that season 8 episode where Hilltop is attacked (Do not send us Astray episode) the whole battle felt...weightless and totally forgettable.
Oh damn just based on that title I do not agree in the slightest. Thrones for me was monumentally more disappointing. The ending of Thrones make it hard to rewatch even the good stuff. That being said I love your videos and can’t wait to hear your take!
Idk, I feel the same exact way about both.
Recently rewatched GoT, still absolutely loved the first seasons despite the horrific ending. I got so locked in that I finally even went through all the extra lore books 😅
Same with TWD - could rewatch the first seasons on loop forever, but as soon as I get to season 7ish, I start rolling my eyes more and more 😬
@@Koroto that’s totally fair - I think my tolerance for BS is stronger for sure. For me the difference is where as the characters in TWD became massive Flanderizations by the end they at least retained that. Dany flipping at the end felt to me like a complete departure from who she was. Maybe that’s why I feel that way. Here’s hoping Kirkman gets his wish and we get an animated adaption in 20 years!
@@JosephMichael Nah the first two seasons of TWD had some of the best dialogue in a show so consistent and tastefully written. Then the writer who made it all happen got fired around season 2 after that they started using character deaths as fuel to keep the show going.
And the cracks started to show in season 5. And the charm of the show was completely gone by s7 20 hour long episodes of vapid writing somehow sold by the likes of Andrew Lincoln, Norman and jeffrey dean morgan.
@@blakan1478 oh no yeah the quality dropped no denying that. I stand by most things Koroto brings up in his retrospectives like bottle eps and what not. My point was more so for me personally GoT was more egregious.
Exactly it's not that bad wtf
really happy your making this video and the length of it as well very nice!
i liked it
I wish I did 😭😭
@@Koroto Looking at imdb it looked like most people liked it.
@@lifeloverNorris people also buy the same iphone for 900
@@lifeloverNorris Eh more likely that the people who are still watching the walking dead and also taking their time to review it on imdb, are also the same people who are not likely to voice criticism for the show. Walking Dead is pretty much irrelevant besides the people who are still somewhat invested in it for nostalgia reasons.
So happy to see your sub count balloon. Youve been great
So I wouldn’t say it was as disappointing as game of thrones considering the story at least ended up where I wanted it to conceptually. Rick essentially saves the world and comes full circle finding his family. My problem however is the execution to get to that was awful. Game of thrones failed in execution and the final result as well imo
his family is carl , carl was his drive , and what made his character , andrew lincoln said himself he feels "the only way for rick's story to end , is for rick to die and carl to take his place" (paraphrased btw) , even though he made new connections , carl is the center of his world , the writing was all around horrible and lacked commitment and didn't care about the characters anymore , just about meaningless spectacle , and they just killed off or wrote off any character that had meaning (other than a couple)
and judith is shane's daughter but sure he accepted her as his own , he doesn't even know rj exists / has never met him , and michonne is just michonne , doesn't compare to carl
just my thoughts , i'd say walking dead was far more disappointing , but i guess it was less of a blow because of how it was overtime
I was a huge fan of The Walking Dead, and I think the show should have ended years ago. I forget what point I gave up, but it dragged on.
is it a safe space to say i loved it
Yes, this is a safe space. Glad you liked it 😅
No!! You can't like things other people don't like!
Here’s how look at it: After the 5 years this spent in development hell, I’m thankful we got to see Rick and Michonne again at all.
People did drop off of the show because of Glen's death. He was one of the few reasons myself and several other people I know even bothered to watch it anymore - TWD was so bad by that point that he literally carried the show on his shoulders. We were invested in him heavily since the start of the show and basically only continued watching to see where he went from there, since all the other decent characters were dead or destroyed by the writing. We literally just did not care what happened to the rest of the group. I think I watched an extra episode past that, but then the stupidity of the RV scene with Rick on the roof getting that axe was too much for me and I dropped it for years. Recently went back to re-watch the (AMAZING) first few seasons and sunk cost fallacy had me follow through this time. My husband still refuses to watch the show again.
Glenn was one of the fan favorites but... carried the show? Glenn never carried the show on his shoulders there are dozens of better characters, the show died because of shit writing not becauseof Glenn.
@@Diogo_7237 If you think there are dozens of better characters from the show before his death, fine, but for those of us who thought he was the best without exception, yeah he was the reason we stopped watching. The bad writing was evident before and jumped off after, but like one of those action movies where everything explodes for no reason, you just kind of swallow your disbelief and enjoy the spectacle in the moment. For me and lots of others, Glenn was the thing we sat through everything else for because we genuinely enjoyed his story, so when he died we lost almost all interest in it. Imagine watching a cheesy 80's action flick unironically but there's no explosions, fire, one liners, or racing scenes. You COULD, and you might even find yourself enjoying parts of it, but most of the experience would just be disappointing and painful. Glenn was the last character who really embodied what the first few seasons were about, for us - he wasn't a zombie killing action hero, he was the sneaky guy, down to earth, reasonable, cared for others, smart, but also goofy. He still felt like a real, genuine person stuck in the setting that we identified with for that.
That's the great thing about having a big group of characters in a show, generally - everyone who watches it can find one or two they identify with and grow attached to. I think it's great that you had lots of others you liked. But for me and many other people, the one character we felt most close to was killed in a brutal cliffhanger ending right at one of the peaks of his character in terms of interest - Maggie being pregnant and having issues with the baby immediately after he took his first human life - for really stupid reasons. We had the duplicating Saviors who we were already sick of seeing by that point and just wanted to move on, and were looking forward to seeing how Glenn dealt with fatherhood or the loss of fatherhood in the apocalypse. They took Chekov's gun right off the wall and shot him with it, and a lot of people felt betrayed by that, especially after the dumpster scene where Glenn activated his plot armor. We were essentially told by the story that he's one of the MAIN main characters for realsies and he can't die, only for him to die what felt like almost immediately after. For me personally it didn't really help that my second favorite character was Abraham and he ALSO died at the same time as Glenn in the same way. Daryl is the last one I care about but he's got 15 different layers of plot armor and somehow made it to France now so he's immortal.
I’ve watched most of the series several times over(up until season 7) and continued watching them release on tv with my family but just kind of puttered out just before the series final, haven’t gone back because I felt the passion, the story, characters, and smaller plot lines between them seemed uninspired and unnecessary. Which sucks because it started so strong, the flow of the seasons and the struggle of understanding and empathizing with both points of view kept us all captivated. By the end it just felt redundant in a sense. The risk of taking a big step forward kept them in this phase of renewing the same threads with new faces after killing too many for shock value
Turning Carol into Rambo in the climactic Terminus episode was when the show lost me.
At least Breaking Bad ended very very well. One of the best last episodes for a TV series ever. It went out with a bang!
We didn't deserve Breaking Bad 😭😭😭
The biggest problem is Scott Gimple. Idk how he got that job, but he’s the definition of failing upwards.
Because he's jewisch. You know how it works right??
Not even 10 seconds in and you start with a Doofenscmirtz meme.
I love this channel man 😂
I mostly enjoyed the ones who live save for a couple cheesy lines and the end of the CRM being underwhelming, but I love to hear your thoughts on this show no matter what and you make such good points I usually respect and understand your view point. Looking forward to watching this with some pizza :)
Agreeeees. Korotos is a hater but we love him anyways lol
I just looked up the ending where Rick is reunited with Judith. It was nice. I'm good now, I'm not interested in any of the spinoffs.
Yessssssirr my favourite channel
I really hated how the series built up the CRM to be some sort of elite military force only to have them be a complete paper tiger. But in general I don't think most writers know how to depict a professional military force so that is hardly a problem that is unique to TWD. Pretty often the depiction becomes a pretty cartoonish distortion of how the writers think a military force acts.
The grenade from the season one show was a grenade meant to cause a big explosion explosion. The grenade thrown at Rick way later was a shrapnel grenade. Way less concussion blast and more pieces flying around
The cave episode was straight disrespectful to anyone from a mining community
Yes . . . like fireman were disrespected by Halloween . . . All the problems with the actual show, and yours is the most pathetic way to look at it. Fuck off and grow up
I'm glad I dropped TWD in season 3 or 4 (don't even remember exactly when lmao), that way I couldn't be let down by the ending and just the whole show in general.
I dropped off around the beginning of season 8. The show felt like it was spinning its wheels by that point and I wasn’t getting excited for the show anymore. I came back to it later because I wanted to get caught up before the Rick and Michonne show came out. After TOWL I feel like I can let the franchise go. Rick and Michonne made it back to their kids and feel like that’s a good enough ending for the tv universe.
While the franchise hasn't maintained the wonder it once had, can't we just say its had a great run instead of it being some sort of failure or disappointment? Overall it is an amazing series.
It was the best of all the spin offs though
Ehhh, just 1 season for 1 season, I think Fear clears this 🤷♂️
I agree with you on the main show totally. They obviously had no idea where they were going with it after like season 7-8, I think that’s a part of why Andrew Lincoln left (yes also to spend more time with his family). But it was a clearly a sinking ship and he bailed at the right time. I stopped watching after his “death” and then before the ones who live came out I watched the other seasons just in case there was anything I needed to no (there wasn’t). However i personally really enjoyed the ones who live, maybe it’s just because I love Andrew as Rick grime so fucking much and it was so damn good to see him again but I liked it. I agree the ending was pretty over the top, I honestly thought it was setting up for a season 2 where Rick gets back with the main group and then they have to deal with the CRM. But no, they just wrapped it up as fast as they could with a very unrealistic “Rick and michone kill them all in 20 minutes. I think it would have been really cool to get more into the CRM and have the crew back together against them… also if this really is the last time we see Andrew play Rick grimes I’m pretty pissed. Yes he got reunited with his family that’s great but what about Daryl? I know there’s a season 2 coming for him but it seems super unlikely Rick would be involved. Anyways… yeah the show slowly dyed and that sucked but I did enjoy the Rick michone reunion a lot, it was really just that last episode that was almost confusing. Like u really expect us to believe the took down the largest army in (as far as we know) the world in one episode, but in the main show the negan war goes on for TWO FUCKING SEASONS!? Idk.. I guess we’ll see what happens next but I don’t have big hopes. But it is crazy to think I remember watching the first episode and I was in high school at the time. I’m 30 now and still somewhat invested in what happens to the characters. There’s going to be a Daryl carol reunion we already know that… but past that, wtf are the doing? The Maggie began show sucked in my opinion and it’s obviously getting another season. I just wish they could wrap it all back up and end it with something worth watching…but again not a lot of hope for that. It’s sad.