Hello everyone. Thank you for all of your dialogue and the responses to my video. First, I would like to apologize for not responding promptly. I run an instagram page that takes up most of my time. Please reach me there if you would like! Next, it seems as though there is a trend of concern about this tip regarding lowering from fixed anchors, so lets address that here. Please read before you comment. Lowering in a single pitch environment is statistically safer than rappelling. More accidents and especially more deaths have occurred from rappelling at single pitch crags. See Accidents in North American Mountaineering for more information. This is due to the increased number of steps as well as the transition from one system to another for rappelling. Lowering in this way means staying in the same system the whole time. Another reason to lower is that in most areas of the country, there are climbing organizations or individuals taking care of these crags. If you are in an area where this is not true, do it yourself! Removing worn hardware and replacing it is extremely easy with modern, climbing rated quick links and rings. In my view, it is a very entitled stance to suggest one should always rappel just because you are unwilling to fix the hardware yourself or donate to an organization that does. With all of that said, if you want to rappel, please do! I would never suggest to anyone that they should always lower or never rappel. I don't really believe in "always" and "never". That is not what this channel is about. There are times, however, when there is reason to rappel. In the case of private property, a land owner may prefer you rappel, although this is rarely the case. Take Muir Valley in the Red River Gorge as one example. Another reason you may decide to rappel is that the configuration of the anchor may viciously twist your rope when lowering. This often happens when there are two bolts, 6+" apart with only a ring per hanger, meaning your rope must travel a horizontal distance before coming out of the other side. Finally, areas such as Indian Creek or other desert sandstone areas may have a culture of rappelling to avoid damaging the fragile rock that the rope will interact with. In those cases, it is definitely suggested to rappel! Apart from these however, many single pitch crags (especially in the western US) are beginning to sprout mussy hooks or steel carabiners on fixed anchors, encouraging lowering from the top. My hope is that with enough communal effort, this becomes the norm at most crags. Thank you for making it this far in my diatribe, and I hope we may connect further on my Instagram page, @thecodybradford. Cheers!
Nice. Quick, clean effective & safe. However, you’re wearing down the Anchors. And in my opinion it’s a very entitled point of view to think that “ it’s the responsibility of other climbers and the associations that maintain these routes “to keep replacing damages caused by people like yourself. Otherwise, thanks for the video.
I can't tell you how many cleaning videos I've watched and I have to say your is the best. I'm teaching my granddaughter and I want her to watch this over and over as well as practice at our local gym. Thanks so much for the clear concise info.
In that case you can go in direct, untie, pass the rope through the fixed gear, then tie in again. You're unlikely to find gear so thin that it won't let you do this. You can attach a bite to your harness so you don't drop the rope while you untie.
The rules at my areas around me are to repel to save the hardware. It’s up to the climbers to know how to set that repel up safely without ever being unattached to anything.
Totally fine, but if I understand the statement, that would add clutter to an already redundant system. At least as far down as the components and attachments. The rope and single locking carabiner do not need additional support.
@@CodyBradford dont get get wrong , i love your videos.. i luv them. I think more climbs and more climbers be posting. The content is great. I am just one of those climbers that backs up my back up. Always up for healthy discussions. Climb on. Thanks for responding.
@@wellsee2297 Backing up the back-up, oh boy, I won't ever ask anyone to go beyond what they feel comfortably safe with but there is a point at which too much redundancy can be worthless and even a hazard. You're only as good/safe as your weakest point, so adding back-ups to back-ups may just be a waste of time, gear and effort. Understand where the weakest point is on your entire system and if that is "super good-enough" then learn to trust the rest of the system. Know your gear it's and you will gain confidence (not stupid arrogance), realistic confidence in the gear.
I learned this technique in Europe and as a few have already prointed out, a bite doesn't always fit through the ring, especially if there are already quick draws or carabiners in them. I was wondering if you have advice for avoiding getting the rope caught in the hardware or on the rock edge, either after rapelling down and while pulling the rope through, or while lowering down off a rock where the anchor is on top.
Thanks for sharing, just watched it, good vid. I did leave a comment that the gal rappelling at the end did not weight her ATC, I asked if that was possible with the way they had her demonstrate the rappel. Ill wait for their response.
I guess different areas use different terms, but I never saw a fifi used anywhere in this video. I'm from CA, not sure if this is from another area/country or if I'm just an idiot. Nice technique though, regardless!
Cody is using the term "fifi" as you would when aid climbing, like when you clip in temporarily with a FiFi hook. Don't get hung up on the terminology, it's described differently in different places in different countries.
I prefer to rappel after cleaning. First, it keeps my skills sharp. Secondly, it'll preserve the rope rather than having it rub on the wall's aged hardware... But all in all, do you.
The rope preservation only works if it doesnt touch the Rock in any place though. If you rappel and it rubs in a Single place for the entire rappel, it will have a lot more abrasion in a Single Spot. Otherwise good practice.
Remember that different areas have different climbing ethics! Please respect them. Lowering may be fine but they wear out the anchor hardware much faster.
@@16m49x3 You actually do! Take a look at your belay carabener. After years of usage you will notice wear on the spot where the rope runs over. Now imagen what such wear will do to a popular crag. Thats why you repell so the rope is static under stress.
I'm so sick of hearing about wearing out an anchor, so just carry new ones to replace the worn out ones now and then, no big deal. And that's what the freaking crap is there for anyway, just calm down, who doesn't use them to get lowered?
Nope. Soft aluminum carabiner is not going to scratch another soft aluminum carabiner. You get scratches from clipping aluminum to hard edged steel things.
Interesting. I haven't made the move to lead climbing yet. There is a lot I don't know. Wouldn't you clip the rope end to your belay loop and the anchor end to the chain? My thinking is, to keep the scratched end from abrading the belay loop.
Nevermind. After watching it again, I understand the question. Apologies for my ignorance. I'm 52YO and only learning to outdoor top rop after a couple of years top roping in the gym. I'm loving it and looking forward to learning more. Safety in the adventure is very important to me.
My only jssue is lowering off a double overhand. I know its technically safe, but a figure 8 on a bight isnt all that difficult and a lot more "super extra safe" so why risk it?
How come rock climbers don’t use common arborist decent/ascent systems? Legit curious very ignorant to rock stuff just seems like so many unneeded moves could have just tied a Blake’s even through those carabiners and bombed out himself
Draws are in the "rap ring", metal on metal where the rope goes. The "fifi" reduces your protection from redundant to...not redundant, and more metal on metal.
Fixe and other manufacturers recommend clipping the rings since aluminum CANNOT damage stainless steel. It also makes it possible to pass the rope through the rings (links in this case) without having to also pass the bite through your carabiners and loaded soft goods. There is no need for redundancy with a fifi because you are never off belay. Aluminum does not damage itself, especially in a static environment. See, Mohs scale of mineral hardness.
@@CodyBradford Disclaimer: I'm not a certified guide. I agree on the steel being undamaged. In my mind, it's just bad practice to use anything but rope through the lowest ring. Doesn't that make sense? I know about mineral hardness. Two substances with the same hardness CAN damage each other. Even diamond will scratch diamond. So the draw on draw is less than ideal, for the biners, and the soft gear used with those in the future. I'm not sure I understand what you've mentioned about the bite of rope. If anything, clipping to the lowest ring makes it harder to put a rope through that ring. I'm never "off belay" when I clean, but, I am in direct to the bolts with 2 slings when I call for slack because you never know how much they've given you. I dunno, maybe that's overdoing it.
@@Bees-wax I think you raise great points! To address them: As far as the lower links being clipped, it will always depend. When there are only 1 to two rings, links, or quicklinks; then I recommend (as do the hardware manufacturers) clipping the lower attachments. The reason this often clears up space (especially with rings, since I agree that links can be quite small) is that your carabiners through the hangers are then likely loading over the attachments and can and do break during lead falls (which isn't as likely on a single pitch anchor) and your carabiners now act as a doorway that is even with the lower attachments, especially with a single ring on each hanger. What that means is that you now have a carabiner spine either in the way or that you must pass rope through which will entirely depend on how you clipped the anchor which can be different every time. Clipping the lower attachment ensures that not only you can fit a bite of rope through, but that you can also remove your gear since they will not be trapped by the newly configured rope.
@@Bees-wax It is true that aluminum can damage aluminum, but you would have to apply significant force to do so in a single pitch cleaning scenario. To your latter point, you should know how much rope to give out as a belayer. Too much and your belay won't mean anything. If that is a concern, its not the technique, but rather your partners competence that is at issue.
one problem with this is metal on metal on what should be the metal on rope only side of the quick draws, just do two indirects into the anchors and keep the rest the same. or something else, just dont put metal on the rope side of carabiner
Your concern is that attaching the “metal” side of a qd to the “rope” side of another qd would damage the rope carabiner such that your rope could get cut from the now damaged rope carabiner? That’s an awfully conservative assessment.
Faster but not safer in my opinion, when repel you're not sending all that rope through the anchor and rubbing against The Rock, your rope will last a lot longer if you rap down from all your climbs. Also it wears on the anchor chains, I know the wear small but of everyone's doing it on a popular route it's going to add up over time and we want these anchors we're installing nowadays to last longer than us.
I agree and disagree... If you're lowering off of chain links the wear adds up, and rather quickly - but if you're lowering off rings, the fact that the ring can spin makes it so there is no one hot spot of wear on it so it doesn't wear down quickly. I've personally seen rings that look fine after years of lowering. Secondly, I'm pretty sure (although I should really check) statistically, most accidents from sport climbing happen when rappelling - this kind of argues against your rappelling is safer argument. However, I would say that if you know how to rappel correctly and back up your system, rappelling is perfectly safe.
@@haydenm.3912 Well if you know how to repel correctly and back up your system you shouldn't run into those accidents, understand the people make mistakes but in rock climbing that shouldn't happen because mistakes lead to death and on a perfect system without making a mistakes it is more likely to fail lowering than it is repelling. Also most of the routes I've climbed on haven't had rap rings, not seeing their uncommon I definitely see them especially more popular climbing spots but I like to use more niversal systems I can apply in more situations so my routine stays consistent and I'm less likely to accidentally forget something. But regardless of all of that at the end of the day most of the time the safest thing to do is whatever is most comfortable to the person doing it so if you prefer to lower, lower and if you prefer to repel, repel.
Those quick links are for rappel. Usually lowering on chains or quick links kinks your rope and adds extra wear to the metal we all share. Steel biners or mussy’s are recommended for lowering.
"Wearing out the gear" and "defacing the rocks with anchors" oh my, I am so sick of the crying, stop it!!! It's a gigantic planet, we don't scar it by putting bolts on the rocks, go bird watch in a new location where humans don't climb, and by the way I hope you walked to that location because the asphalt road you drove on leaves a much bigger "scar" on "mother earth" than a little tiny bolt on a giant boulder or mountain side.
Actually, climbers with more experience are at the same and sometimes greater risk of incident as newer climbers with less experience, according to data collected by the American Alpine Club.
Good question. The method you describe has two potential problems. 1, you can drop the rope, and 2, it takes you off belay, and then put you back on again once you re-thread the rope and re-tie. The method that Cody shows means you can never drop the rope, and you stay on belay the entire time.
That doesn't make any sense to me. Someone lowering you would put twice the load on the anchor then you lowering yourself. Just a dumb tree guy here.... Can anyone explain why What he said is true?
@mesahusa If you weigh a hundred pounds and you are holding the other end of the rope, Then you're holding yourself up So there's only a hundred pounds on the Anchor. This will be very noticeable.If you try to pull yourself up you will notice you only need to pull fifty lbs But you have to pull two feet of rope to move one foot. If someone is holding you then they would have to apply a hundred pounds of force on the rope To hold you up. If they lower you They will have to let one foot of rope pass to lower you one foot. Sorry voice text driving
You are not supposed to lower on quicklinks and wear them out unnecessarily. You wear out your own gear, not the quicklinks someone else spent the time and money to put on the wall for all to share and to hopefully last as long as possible. They don't spin like rings to distribute the wear. Most guidebooks explicitly say this. Not sure what kinda ethic this is...
This is a pretty tired argument I'm tired of having. This argument is lazy and assumes someone else is responsible for replacing worn hardware when, in reality, it is a responsibility that falls on those of us who are out there the most. If you climb enough to witness this happening, pony up some cash and support the local effort to upkeep hardware. In the places I live, I spend many days a year replacing and cleaning up worn goods so that people can use them safely. Carry quicklinks, rings, carabiners, slings and such in your cragging pack everywhere you go along side your WAG bag and trash bag. Use them. When you see a worn out piece of hardware, fix it.
@@CodyBradford is it so hard or bad to simply rappell safely and minimize wear on fixed gear? In my opinion, we'd do better preaching the prussik to increase rappell safety than teaching people to avoid the necessary skill of rappelling. A popular route could see 20 ascents on a weekend. That is a LOT of wear. This 'tired argument' is in most guidebooks, but hey, what do those guidebook authors know...
@@jackmoray I wholeheartedly agree. Many authors come from a time when climbing was not this popular and these new ethics did not exist. Climbing organizations and rebolting efforts were not common. Not all, certainly. However, the vast majority of these written ethics in guidebooks (many of them quite old or even out of print) are out of date and misinformed given today’s available infrastructure. Yes, of course rappelling will eventually be necessary for some climbers, however most will never leave the single pitch sport crags, and that is totally ok. In Red Rock and other places I climb, I will continue to use my money and resources to repair and replace anchors. I suggest you and others do the same so we can all climb more and deal with shinanagins less on rappels. Try to clean a steep line on rappel. It literally cannot work.
@@CodyBradfordI appreciate the back and forth and am re-considering the old ethic based on what you are saying. I don't deny that lowering is safer or faster. That a better infrastructure exists now to maintain this hardware than in the past is fair. Appreciate ya - keep posting the pro tips esp. on IG. Apologies for being a bit of a tool.
@@jackmoray hey Jack, thanks for saying that, and I’m sorry for waking up on the wrong side of the bed these last two mornings. I shouldn’t be on here when I’m grumpy. I also appreciate it and honestly, it’s good to be pushed back on. There are indeed times to rappel, however I do still stand beside lowering in most single pitch areas, but that being said, I agree that if people continue to climb, learning to rappel effectively and safely is a valuable skill, especially if one is ever going to multi-pitch.
I find this strange, where i grew up there is a carabiner on top to hang yourself in so you don't have to do this time consuming thing. We learn't this tecnique just in case you need to abort a sport climb because of bad conditions (on the things you put your express in, i know its sharp and that but yeah). I just found out in other places its common that one has to do this whole procedure to get down a sport climb. Amazing, its the most important thing to know. I never repelled of a sports climb. Its just not common where i am. But from multipitch its your only option. Why its safer i don't get. I have the feeling that repelling is safer in general
Im from the uk. We always have to do this. Im Jelous you dont have to. Its so time consuming. Especially if you've had an epic and can't get your head straight 😂
Thanks for teaching me something I will most likely never use in my life. I hope I didn't just forget something important while making space in my brain for it.
Bad for hardware, and the only reason the community has the luxury of this hardware is because someone who took the time to learn about safe practices installed this, so return the respect by pulling your rope and abseiling down and by using your own equipment to tope rope single pitches. The more you lower like this the more developers or stewards have to replace hardware and take risks so you can save 2 minutes and have a good outing.
There are few examples where this isn’t possible. The most likely two would be is your rope is too thick to fit through the chain links (unlikely these days) or there is hardware like Metolius rappel hangers which are also exceedingly uncommon. In that case, one would need to untie from the rope utilizing a clove or bight knot on the belay loop and retying.
Rap rings are a couple bucks. Replacing them is peanuts compared to keeping with the most safe actions to protect climbing areas. People forget that accidents are the thing that threatens climbing areas the most.
Pretty tired argument largely from individuals who do not donate their own time and money to replacing anchors. If you see anchors that are worn; instead of blaming other climbers for lowering once on them, pony up the dough and fix it yourself. If everyone took this attitude of ownership, we wouldn't have to have this discussion.
@@CodyBradford you are making a big assumption that the critiques of your ethic don't support gear replacement. Better a tired argument than a fallacious one. 🤣
![Sending 5.13c without a Belayer [How I Climb Alone]](/img/1.gif)
Hello everyone. Thank you for all of your dialogue and the responses to my video. First, I would like to apologize for not responding promptly. I run an instagram page that takes up most of my time. Please reach me there if you would like! Next, it seems as though there is a trend of concern about this tip regarding lowering from fixed anchors, so lets address that here. Please read before you comment. Lowering in a single pitch environment is statistically safer than rappelling. More accidents and especially more deaths have occurred from rappelling at single pitch crags. See Accidents in North American Mountaineering for more information. This is due to the increased number of steps as well as the transition from one system to another for rappelling. Lowering in this way means staying in the same system the whole time. Another reason to lower is that in most areas of the country, there are climbing organizations or individuals taking care of these crags. If you are in an area where this is not true, do it yourself! Removing worn hardware and replacing it is extremely easy with modern, climbing rated quick links and rings. In my view, it is a very entitled stance to suggest one should always rappel just because you are unwilling to fix the hardware yourself or donate to an organization that does. With all of that said, if you want to rappel, please do! I would never suggest to anyone that they should always lower or never rappel. I don't really believe in "always" and "never". That is not what this channel is about. There are times, however, when there is reason to rappel. In the case of private property, a land owner may prefer you rappel, although this is rarely the case. Take Muir Valley in the Red River Gorge as one example. Another reason you may decide to rappel is that the configuration of the anchor may viciously twist your rope when lowering. This often happens when there are two bolts, 6+" apart with only a ring per hanger, meaning your rope must travel a horizontal distance before coming out of the other side. Finally, areas such as Indian Creek or other desert sandstone areas may have a culture of rappelling to avoid damaging the fragile rock that the rope will interact with. In those cases, it is definitely suggested to rappel! Apart from these however, many single pitch crags (especially in the western US) are beginning to sprout mussy hooks or steel carabiners on fixed anchors, encouraging lowering from the top. My hope is that with enough communal effort, this becomes the norm at most crags. Thank you for making it this far in my diatribe, and I hope we may connect further on my Instagram page, @thecodybradford. Cheers!
I like your video s
@@wellsee2297 Cheers, my friend! I hope they are helpful for you!
Nice. Quick, clean effective & safe. However, you’re wearing down the Anchors. And in my opinion it’s a very entitled point of view to think that “ it’s the responsibility of other climbers and the associations that maintain these routes “to keep replacing damages caused by people like yourself. Otherwise, thanks for the video.
@@tainopr4356 better more people die than anchors wear down marginally faster am I right??? /s
What kind of luxury do you guys climb in?
This is the video I send to ppl to demonstrate cleaning anchors. Thank you for leaving behind your knowledge, Cody. R.I.P.
has the man who made the video passed away ?!
@@conormackay5946 he died by suicide last year unfortunately
It’s so unbelievable. You just never know-RIP.
Probably over a girl right? I’ve almost been there, last year almost killed me.
@@harboniggaJesus way to make it about you. no wonder girls don’t like you lol
Much love Cody❤️❤️ I'm sorry for your struggles, I feel your pain. Have fun climbing the walls that never end 🤙
I can't tell you how many cleaning videos I've watched and I have to say your is the best. I'm teaching my granddaughter and I want her to watch this over and over as well as practice at our local gym. Thanks so much for the clear concise info.
Thank you for the kind words, my friend! I hope she has many awesome experiences out there! Thanks for teaching the next generation!
I agree. Very simple to follow. 👏
Terrible to hear about him passing away. :(
Don't have words..
Had no clue either ´ sad ´
Who? The guy in this video? What happened?
Wtf...what kind of black magic was used to untie that original figure 8 so fast?!?
He's at ground level so no load to cince the knot.
I just got into climbing a month ago and been watching his videos and only today found out he passed :( RIP
I advice to use a personal safety system. A Quickdraw is a bit sketchy😅
Great for some anchors but many on the rap stations won’t have hardware big enough to pass a bite through
So obviously you wouldn't do it in those situations 😁
In that case you can go in direct, untie, pass the rope through the fixed gear, then tie in again. You're unlikely to find gear so thin that it won't let you do this. You can attach a bite to your harness so you don't drop the rope while you untie.
This is exactly how i teach people to clean routes. Fastest and safest way, never untied from the system at any point. Great video as always!
The rules at my areas around me are to repel to save the hardware. It’s up to the climbers to know how to set that repel up safely without ever being unattached to anything.
bs@@petemitchell2350
This is a great tip! Thank you!!
Cody’s the man to this day budddd
Seeing this pop up has made me really sad. Rest in peace to this legend.
Brilliant, makes perfect sense.
RIP dude hope you're at peace now
You sir are an awesome human
i wish he got to see messages like this one
I would never clip in to my quickdraws like that. Much better to clip into the ring of the Anchorage.
my fav method of lowering off sport climbs, very fast and safe
I prefer using figure eight rather than overhand on a bight, but apart from that this is my goto guide
Nice, but I would still keep 2 point until the new system has a figure 8 or, Bowlin with a top not.
Totally fine, but if I understand the statement, that would add clutter to an already redundant system. At least as far down as the components and attachments. The rope and single locking carabiner do not need additional support.
@@CodyBradford dont get get wrong , i love your videos.. i luv them. I think more climbs and more climbers be posting. The content is great. I am just one of those climbers that backs up my back up. Always up for healthy discussions. Climb on. Thanks for responding.
@@wellsee2297 Of course! Cheers!
@@wellsee2297 Backing up the back-up, oh boy, I won't ever ask anyone to go beyond what they feel comfortably safe with but there is a point at which too much redundancy can be worthless and even a hazard. You're only as good/safe as your weakest point, so adding back-ups to back-ups may just be a waste of time, gear and effort. Understand where the weakest point is on your entire system and if that is "super good-enough" then learn to trust the rest of the system. Know your gear it's and you will gain confidence (not stupid arrogance), realistic confidence in the gear.
Great video
This just blew my mind
I hope it proves to be helpful!
So interesting to guiding techniques vs climbers techniques.
Cody happens to be an AMGA Certified Rock GUIDE, but what he's showing here is appropriate for pretty much everybody.
This is how I choose to lower its quiet more secure in my opinion and easier to do
I learned this technique in Europe and as a few have already prointed out, a bite doesn't always fit through the ring, especially if there are already quick draws or carabiners in them.
I was wondering if you have advice for avoiding getting the rope caught in the hardware or on the rock edge, either after rapelling down and while pulling the rope through, or while lowering down off a rock where the anchor is on top.
Can I recommend untying your main rope and double checking that you are threaded properly BEFORE removing the fifi.
If your belayer has taken your weight in it has to be threaded properly, just splitting hairs
RUclips video from the American Alpine Club, endorsing this exact procedure: ruclips.net/video/aDilZALfW9c/видео.html (Start at about 3:05)
Thanks for sharing, just watched it, good vid. I did leave a comment that the gal rappelling at the end did not weight her ATC, I asked if that was possible with the way they had her demonstrate the rappel. Ill wait for their response.
RIP Cody 😢
I guess different areas use different terms, but I never saw a fifi used anywhere in this video. I'm from CA, not sure if this is from another area/country or if I'm just an idiot. Nice technique though, regardless!
Agreed. Super weird to say Fifi, when most would say clipped in direct or in hard.
I thought fifi was slang for meth in Cali
Cody is using the term "fifi" as you would when aid climbing, like when you clip in temporarily with a FiFi hook. Don't get hung up on the terminology, it's described differently in different places in different countries.
Can any of this be also used in climbing tree work ?
I prefer to rappel after cleaning. First, it keeps my skills sharp. Secondly, it'll preserve the rope rather than having it rub on the wall's aged hardware... But all in all, do you.
The rope preservation only works if it doesnt touch the Rock in any place though. If you rappel and it rubs in a Single place for the entire rappel, it will have a lot more abrasion in a Single Spot. Otherwise good practice.
😂 climbers think everything through so much! We are so chill even when we are debating🤣
This method is faster than having to wait on you to set up a rap. Also safer.
Remember that different areas have different climbing ethics! Please respect them. Lowering may be fine but they wear out the anchor hardware much faster.
You don't wear out an anchor by lowering slowly with a rope... there's no way it causes any stress on a metal ring
@@16m49x3 You actually do! Take a look at your belay carabener. After years of usage you will notice wear on the spot where the rope runs over. Now imagen what such wear will do to a popular crag. Thats why you repell so the rope is static under stress.
Not much faster.... Rapping actually sees more rope pass through the anchors and wears it out faster.
I once heard a crag steward say that she would rather replace $5 in hardware every ten years than have to call for rescue by helicopter once
I'm so sick of hearing about wearing out an anchor, so just carry new ones to replace the worn out ones now and then, no big deal. And that's what the freaking crap is there for anyway, just calm down, who doesn't use them to get lowered?
Not worried about scratching up the rope end of your quick draws?
I would use a personal anchor instead, personally
Nope. Soft aluminum carabiner is not going to scratch another soft aluminum carabiner. You get scratches from clipping aluminum to hard edged steel things.
@@johngo6283 two substances of the same hardness will scratch each other
Interesting. I haven't made the move to lead climbing yet. There is a lot I don't know. Wouldn't you clip the rope end to your belay loop and the anchor end to the chain? My thinking is, to keep the scratched end from abrading the belay loop.
Nevermind. After watching it again, I understand the question. Apologies for my ignorance.
I'm 52YO and only learning to outdoor top rop after a couple of years top roping in the gym. I'm loving it and looking forward to learning more. Safety in the adventure is very important to me.
My only jssue is lowering off a double overhand. I know its technically safe, but a figure 8 on a bight isnt all that difficult and a lot more "super extra safe" so why risk it?
Nice technique!
Beautiful and safe!
The camera man was floating
The wear from metal on metal on those oval carabiner may fray your rope though
I heard you’re never supposed to tie a rope into your belay loop, better chance of it breaking under pressure. In this situation would this be okay??
Here you don't tie into your belay loop, you use an extra carabineer to attach it
Rest in peace
Is it common practice to use this as a top rope setup for the next climber?
Not with the rope running through fixed gear. Only top rope through your own gear, then go through fixed gear to clean.
Zajebiste
But rappelling is the most fun part of climbing! 🧗♂️
How come rock climbers don’t use common arborist decent/ascent systems? Legit curious very ignorant to rock stuff just seems like so many unneeded moves could have just tied a Blake’s even through those carabiners and bombed out himself
It’s a fine question! We just don’t carry that much gear. We are often walking quite far to crags or objectives with a lot of food, clothing, etc….
I'm glad you will take the time and money to replace all the worn-out anchors.
Dude that was awesome
You’re not a certified AMGA SPI are you?
AMGA certified Rock Guide
@@CodyBradford sweet, what company do you work for? What's the best way to reach you?
@@epycadventures you can visit my website for my email! codybradford.com/contact
@@CodyBradford got it. Good to know you're more than SPI. I need some help with some climbs. Hopefully you can help. I'll be in touch shortly
Was that a question or meant as a critique? I think you had to eat crow on that one.
Draws are in the "rap ring", metal on metal where the rope goes. The "fifi" reduces your protection from redundant to...not redundant, and more metal on metal.
Fixe and other manufacturers recommend clipping the rings since aluminum CANNOT damage stainless steel. It also makes it possible to pass the rope through the rings (links in this case) without having to also pass the bite through your carabiners and loaded soft goods.
There is no need for redundancy with a fifi because you are never off belay.
Aluminum does not damage itself, especially in a static environment. See, Mohs scale of mineral hardness.
@@CodyBradford Disclaimer: I'm not a certified guide. I agree on the steel being undamaged. In my mind, it's just bad practice to use anything but rope through the lowest ring. Doesn't that make sense?
I know about mineral hardness. Two substances with the same hardness CAN damage each other. Even diamond will scratch diamond. So the draw on draw is less than ideal, for the biners, and the soft gear used with those in the future.
I'm not sure I understand what you've mentioned about the bite of rope. If anything, clipping to the lowest ring makes it harder to put a rope through that ring.
I'm never "off belay" when I clean, but, I am in direct to the bolts with 2 slings when I call for slack because you never know how much they've given you. I dunno, maybe that's overdoing it.
@@Bees-wax I think you raise great points! To address them: As far as the lower links being clipped, it will always depend. When there are only 1 to two rings, links, or quicklinks; then I recommend (as do the hardware manufacturers) clipping the lower attachments. The reason this often clears up space (especially with rings, since I agree that links can be quite small) is that your carabiners through the hangers are then likely loading over the attachments and can and do break during lead falls (which isn't as likely on a single pitch anchor) and your carabiners now act as a doorway that is even with the lower attachments, especially with a single ring on each hanger. What that means is that you now have a carabiner spine either in the way or that you must pass rope through which will entirely depend on how you clipped the anchor which can be different every time. Clipping the lower attachment ensures that not only you can fit a bite of rope through, but that you can also remove your gear since they will not be trapped by the newly configured rope.
@@Bees-wax It is true that aluminum can damage aluminum, but you would have to apply significant force to do so in a single pitch cleaning scenario. To your latter point, you should know how much rope to give out as a belayer. Too much and your belay won't mean anything. If that is a concern, its not the technique, but rather your partners competence that is at issue.
one problem with this is metal on metal on what should be the metal on rope only side of the quick draws, just do two indirects into the anchors and keep the rest the same. or something else, just dont put metal on the rope side of carabiner
Your concern is that attaching the “metal” side of a qd to the “rope” side of another qd would damage the rope carabiner such that your rope could get cut from the now damaged rope carabiner? That’s an awfully conservative assessment.
Faster but not safer in my opinion, when repel you're not sending all that rope through the anchor and rubbing against The Rock, your rope will last a lot longer if you rap down from all your climbs. Also it wears on the anchor chains, I know the wear small but of everyone's doing it on a popular route it's going to add up over time and we want these anchors we're installing nowadays to last longer than us.
I agree and disagree... If you're lowering off of chain links the wear adds up, and rather quickly - but if you're lowering off rings, the fact that the ring can spin makes it so there is no one hot spot of wear on it so it doesn't wear down quickly. I've personally seen rings that look fine after years of lowering. Secondly, I'm pretty sure (although I should really check) statistically, most accidents from sport climbing happen when rappelling - this kind of argues against your rappelling is safer argument. However, I would say that if you know how to rappel correctly and back up your system, rappelling is perfectly safe.
@@haydenm.3912 Well if you know how to repel correctly and back up your system you shouldn't run into those accidents, understand the people make mistakes but in rock climbing that shouldn't happen because mistakes lead to death and on a perfect system without making a mistakes it is more likely to fail lowering than it is repelling. Also most of the routes I've climbed on haven't had rap rings, not seeing their uncommon I definitely see them especially more popular climbing spots but I like to use more niversal systems I can apply in more situations so my routine stays consistent and I'm less likely to accidentally forget something. But regardless of all of that at the end of the day most of the time the safest thing to do is whatever is most comfortable to the person doing it so if you prefer to lower, lower and if you prefer to repel, repel.
@@BrianBast
No, if you do lowering correctly, you are as safe as humanly possible. Claiming it is more dangerous is taken out of your ass.
Those quick links are for rappel. Usually lowering on chains or quick links kinks your rope and adds extra wear to the metal we all share. Steel biners or mussy’s are recommended for lowering.
"Wearing out the gear" and "defacing the rocks with anchors" oh my, I am so sick of the crying, stop it!!! It's a gigantic planet, we don't scar it by putting bolts on the rocks, go bird watch in a new location where humans don't climb, and by the way I hope you walked to that location because the asphalt road you drove on leaves a much bigger "scar" on "mother earth" than a little tiny bolt on a giant boulder or mountain side.
Nice and quick. Would be great to highlight that belaying from quick links would wear them down while rappelling will not.
Rappelling is safe.
It's the climber with poor skills that makes it unsafe.
Actually, climbers with more experience are at the same and sometimes greater risk of incident as newer climbers with less experience, according to data collected by the American Alpine Club.
@@CodyBradford Much like avalanche deaths....
@@MyGoogleRUclips true that.
Why not just clip into the anchor, untie and rethread rope, retie and remove personal anchor? Seems a lot more simple to me
Good question. The method you describe has two potential problems. 1, you can drop the rope, and 2, it takes you off belay, and then put you back on again once you re-thread the rope and re-tie. The method that Cody shows means you can never drop the rope, and you stay on belay the entire time.
this is what i do and if you are competent and clove hitch the rope to an extra biner on your gear loop it is 100% safe and 100% faster
@@johngo6283 Good answer
@@Friviahow is it 100% faster?
That doesn't make any sense to me.
Someone lowering you would put twice the load on the anchor then you lowering yourself. Just a dumb tree guy here.... Can anyone explain why What he said is true?
how would this be any different than putting load on the top rope already set up?
@mesahusa If you weigh a hundred pounds and you are holding the other end of the rope, Then you're holding yourself up So there's only a hundred pounds on the Anchor. This will be very noticeable.If you try to pull yourself up you will notice you only need to pull fifty lbs But you have to pull two feet of rope to move one foot.
If someone is holding you then they would have to apply a hundred pounds of force on the rope To hold you up.
If they lower you They will have to let one foot of rope pass to lower you one foot.
Sorry voice text driving
He really dead?
Good way to wear out the hardware. It might take longer but it's better to repell.
Blah blah blah ...
You are not supposed to lower on quicklinks and wear them out unnecessarily. You wear out your own gear, not the quicklinks someone else spent the time and money to put on the wall for all to share and to hopefully last as long as possible. They don't spin like rings to distribute the wear. Most guidebooks explicitly say this. Not sure what kinda ethic this is...
This is a pretty tired argument I'm tired of having. This argument is lazy and assumes someone else is responsible for replacing worn hardware when, in reality, it is a responsibility that falls on those of us who are out there the most. If you climb enough to witness this happening, pony up some cash and support the local effort to upkeep hardware. In the places I live, I spend many days a year replacing and cleaning up worn goods so that people can use them safely. Carry quicklinks, rings, carabiners, slings and such in your cragging pack everywhere you go along side your WAG bag and trash bag. Use them. When you see a worn out piece of hardware, fix it.
@@CodyBradford is it so hard or bad to simply rappell safely and minimize wear on fixed gear? In my opinion, we'd do better preaching the prussik to increase rappell safety than teaching people to avoid the necessary skill of rappelling. A popular route could see 20 ascents on a weekend. That is a LOT of wear. This 'tired argument' is in most guidebooks, but hey, what do those guidebook authors know...
@@jackmoray I wholeheartedly agree. Many authors come from a time when climbing was not this popular and these new ethics did not exist. Climbing organizations and rebolting efforts were not common. Not all, certainly. However, the vast majority of these written ethics in guidebooks (many of them quite old or even out of print) are out of date and misinformed given today’s available infrastructure. Yes, of course rappelling will eventually be necessary for some climbers, however most will never leave the single pitch sport crags, and that is totally ok. In Red Rock and other places I climb, I will continue to use my money and resources to repair and replace anchors. I suggest you and others do the same so we can all climb more and deal with shinanagins less on rappels. Try to clean a steep line on rappel. It literally cannot work.
@@CodyBradfordI appreciate the back and forth and am re-considering the old ethic based on what you are saying. I don't deny that lowering is safer or faster. That a better infrastructure exists now to maintain this hardware than in the past is fair. Appreciate ya - keep posting the pro tips esp. on IG. Apologies for being a bit of a tool.
@@jackmoray hey Jack, thanks for saying that, and I’m sorry for waking up on the wrong side of the bed these last two mornings. I shouldn’t be on here when I’m grumpy. I also appreciate it and honestly, it’s good to be pushed back on. There are indeed times to rappel, however I do still stand beside lowering in most single pitch areas, but that being said, I agree that if people continue to climb, learning to rappel effectively and safely is a valuable skill, especially if one is ever going to multi-pitch.
Okay, now do it high af, on bolts that were cemented into an overhang, 80ft above jagged rocks.
I find this strange, where i grew up there is a carabiner on top to hang yourself in so you don't have to do this time consuming thing. We learn't this tecnique just in case you need to abort a sport climb because of bad conditions (on the things you put your express in, i know its sharp and that but yeah). I just found out in other places its common that one has to do this whole procedure to get down a sport climb.
Amazing, its the most important thing to know. I never repelled of a sports climb. Its just not common where i am. But from multipitch its your only option. Why its safer i don't get. I have the feeling that repelling is safer in general
Im from the uk. We always have to do this. Im Jelous you dont have to. Its so time consuming. Especially if you've had an epic and can't get your head straight 😂
If I understand correctly, the issue with rapelling is if you are in an unknown environment it can be hard to know if you have enough rope
Thanks for teaching me something I will most likely never use in my life. I hope I didn't just forget something important while making space in my brain for it.
Bad for hardware, and the only reason the community has the luxury of this hardware is because someone who took the time to learn about safe practices installed this, so return the respect by pulling your rope and abseiling down and by using your own equipment to tope rope single pitches. The more you lower like this the more developers or stewards have to replace hardware and take risks so you can save 2 minutes and have a good outing.
how do you do this when you don't have rings to thread through
There are few examples where this isn’t possible. The most likely two would be is your rope is too thick to fit through the chain links (unlikely these days) or there is hardware like Metolius rappel hangers which are also exceedingly uncommon. In that case, one would need to untie from the rope utilizing a clove or bight knot on the belay loop and retying.
And you just put wear and tear on the anchor. Better off just pulling to the half way mark and rappelling down with an belay device
Rap rings are a couple bucks. Replacing them is peanuts compared to keeping with the most safe actions to protect climbing areas. People forget that accidents are the thing that threatens climbing areas the most.
Oh my, are you also a vegan?
Bad etiquette… unnecessarily wearing out gear someone spent money and time putting there for everyone.
Wear out your own gear. That's why you need to just learn how to rap safely.
Pretty sure those chains can handle one lower per completed climb and will wear out well beyond the time they should be replaced anyway
Pretty tired argument largely from individuals who do not donate their own time and money to replacing anchors. If you see anchors that are worn; instead of blaming other climbers for lowering once on them, pony up the dough and fix it yourself. If everyone took this attitude of ownership, we wouldn't have to have this discussion.
@@CodyBradford you are making a big assumption that the critiques of your ethic don't support gear replacement. Better a tired argument than a fallacious one. 🤣
@@CodyBradford wouldn't have to pony up the dough if people like you didn't wear gear out
@@jackmoray and unfortunately, I’m probably accurate in that assessment.
Your supposed to rap
no
How is this a sport lmfao
Well… it’s at the very least 2.21k times more popular than whatever it is you do.
Or 50k more popular if you’re using Instagram as a metric.
@@CodyBradford I'll put my money on a rock climbers endurance and strength to most other "athletes" any day.
@@truthdefenders- same here
Or… just use a pas