How I Clean Sport Climbing Anchors
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- This is NOT an instructional video. You should hire a AMGA/IFMGA guide to teach you skills related to rock climbing.
If you are an experienced climber you will be able to understand what I'm doing and why. This is my preferred method for cleaning anchors with rappel rings. Check you local ethic to see whether they recommend lowering or rappelling after cleaning.
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Definitely my favourite way. Feel completely safe the whole time as there’s always the backup/belay.
Nice video. I am from Argentina. Anchor hardware is expensive here, and not a lot of people are into bolting, so it is essential for us to rappel off sport routes. Amazing video into how to clean anchors for lowering ! Thanks !
The best non-instructional instructional video i have seen in a while ! ;)
Use this every spring when I come out of winter hibernation and need a refresher. Awesome video and very similar to how I was instructed to clean when I took my course.
i really like the addition of your tether to locking biner directly on the anchor
slightly additional gear needed, but is also completely away from the gear your're about to remove (unlike using the anchor draws to make a fifi, as commonly done for the lowering method)- i think this makes the system less prone to confusion
if you want you can always retie youre figure 8 on the tail instead of doing 2 carribeaners. only if you're feeling extra safe though!
I like watching that stuff and saying out loud what you are going to do before you do it. Helps me confirm in my head the knowledge is still there. Like a test. Great video.
Cool reference to double check and compare what I am dooing. It was cool to see how you connencted the daisy chain to both anchor points.
Ich am a bit of a scaredy cat so I alsway test by having the belayer take my weight before I remove the draws, which is in theory unecessary as I am connected to the anchor, but still.
Always smart to test your new system before removing the old one. Better to take an extra minute and double check things
really useful! been taught before exactly this way but just needed reminding of the order to do things. thanks!
It’s really important to note that this system is not redundant. The chain personal anchor systems are meant to be more easily adjustable compared to a sling and avoid creating knots in the system (which will weaken the slings durability by half). They do NOT add redundancy.
Use the scissor test here:
-If the right part of the chain fails the left will hold, BUT…
-If the left upper soft chain fails, the right will ALSO fail
Adding extra carabiners sometimes looks like you’re creating extra safety, but isn’t always the case.
Using a simple clove hitch with the climbing rope into a quick draw will make the system redundant and avoid a fall to the next bolt if your personal anchor does fail. An easy way to add real redundancy.
Disagree Lauren, he never goes off belay so the system is redundant once he clips the PAS to the bolt.
it's more about redundancy in the case of bolt failure. a climber should alwaus know how good of shape their personal gear is in but it's not always possible to know what's going on with anchors. that and he was never off belay
But it is redundant cause the rope is still tied to his harness while he pulls it through the rings?
Interesting technique.
I recently learned how to lead climb. The way I was taught was to make a clove hitch knot with a backup carabiner attached to your belay loop to catch you at the last quickdraw should your slings fail. I use two separate slings when clearing the anchor. Makes me feel safer. I prefer having many redundant safety mechanisms.
Thank you for showing this technique. Also I prefer lowering to rappelling. Personally I think it is much safer.
Thanks! There are definitely lots of ways to go about cleaning the anchor. The things I try to focus on are: minimal extra gear, speed and efficiency, and safety. It’s important to know how to rap and when you should, but yeah lowering is much better IMO if you can
Ian Young Definitely more safe. Thank you for sharing the video. Safe climbing and enjoy!
He used a PAS. It’s double stitched. When he clipped it with biners to both bolts it was backed up as it’s the same as your belay loop in design.
Our local rules don't allow to clean routes this way. With our fix anchor and the sandstone you have to rappel. But for replaceable screw coupling fix points is this also my favourite method.
I mean he does have a whole bit where he just talks about how much it depends on your local ethic...
@@jokegred i just said that I like this method too but it is not always allowed in my surroundings.
Rules don’t mean anything. Do what’s safest to prevent accidents. AMGA recommends ALWAYS lowering when it can be done safely. Rap rings cost $3. Donate to your crag.
Honest question: why 3 quickdraws for the anchor? And not just 2
Same question.
I was thought 1locker 1non locker OR 3non locker
That’s exactly how I do it. I have seen people clean anchors by just using their slings though.
make sure your anchor quickdraws are opposite and opposed!
why do people say opposite and opposed? those are synonyms
@@robmckennie4203 That phrase has always bothered me, too. I prefer "reversed and opposed".
@@deanpflaumer7837 still sounds redundant to me, i would just say "opposing gates" or "gates opposed"
Redundancy is super important for safety in climbing, even in the terminology. Lol
@@robmckennie4203 opposite and opposed isnt just gates facing different ways. It just makes it that much harder for the rope to walk out of the carabiners is all and takes 5 extra seconds.
you are using a locking carabiner directly on the ring as opposed to the bolt itself. Is this common practice? One could argue that the carabiner directly on rings would damage them and potentially make sharp edges on the rings rendering them useless for lowering off of.
I'm a beginner on outside sports climbing btw, so this is not critique. This is a questions of safety and just my own reasoning.
Aluminum carabiners won’t do anything to steel rings. I usually try to avoid clipping directly to the ring, but sometimes it makes sense if there isn’t room on the bolt
Seems like there isn’t room on the bolt in this situation, but otherwise you should always try to clip into the bolt or the highest chain link you can. Since there is no chain and the bolt is small it makes sense to use the ring in this situation
I’m extremely new to sport climbing and I must say, I’m used to places with carabiners already at the top. Why do some places only have chain or rings like this?
Most anchors will have 2 bolts, connected by a chain with a big ring in the middle, (if there is no biner)
This is done to last longer since carabiners might get rusty and won't open up anymore after a while. You will see this a lot in multi-pitch routes since it also offers more space to fix all your gear
This is exactly the way I do it. Awesome vid!
Thanks!
@@IanYoungOutdoors i do it the same as well the only difference is i would attach the anchor to the bolt rather than the fixed gear for lowering to prevent metal on metal which could cause small damage to the ring causing damage to a rope
(My opinion) he should have weighted his threaded figure 8 on a bite before untying his origional figure 8
Also, Why didnt he use both hands to thread the rope? Surely that would have been way easier.
Could have been in an off-balanced position and didn't want too add much more pressure to the lanyard so used a hand to keep stable.
I agree about having the belayer take on the new knot before untying the old one.
But then, he did warn that he wasn't an instructor.
Still a good video showing good method though.
Had the exact same thought. But he did check his tether before, so was never in any danger of falling, so no big deal I guess.
Technically it is ok to untie the original knot as long as you make sure you are still weighted on your PAS. Because now when you pull it back through the rap rings it is very clear to see that your new knot goes from your harness through the rings down to the belayer. This makes it less cluttered and possibly more safe if anything. This is preference and if you feel safer keeping your original knot until the new one is weighted then stick with that
Safe and quick ..nice. Your rope however will end up with loads of twists after each lower through this parallel bolted anchor set up. Next time you do this, video your rope passing through the side by side rings ( you will see the rope being twisted as the rope markings pass through) Not unsafe but annoying to deal with. Unfortunately the setup left by the route developer means that if you lower its gonna twist your rope.
Eric!
I know it's been a year since your comment. Can you explain why, or can you link to a different video or article that explains it! I've always thought I understood rope twisting, but recently I've realized I don't know enough about the situation to be able to explain it so I'm trying to learn more! I'll be doing my own searches of course, but just thought I'd ask if you have any favorite references that explain how the twistyness is made!!
Thanks either way!
@@IOwnedGod the alpine savy is headed in the right direction with reducing twist, ideally the anchor would be vertically aligned and equalized to a focul point.
This is my exact method as well. It has tested tried & true on every sport pitch i've done (so far) down here at the New. Great video!
Thanks! Its certainly faster, and I feel like its safer. As long as the local maintainers are ok with it, its great. I've talked to folks at the New and the Red, and they all agree with this method and encourage it.
Hey Ian, why do you pull so much extra rope out when you tie the 8 on a bight?
You have 5+ feet of tail. What's the purpose?
Because he is still tied in to the original figure 8 when he puts the bight through the rings to tie the second. The slack is just the rope left when he unties the first knot.
incoming elitists who are gonna nitpick everything because you didnt follow their exact steps
Like knowing to clip the anchor quickdraw a opposite directions? Very elite!
I don’t think it’s elitist, and I also know it’s not universal, but for me personally having a single tie in just feels icky. The pas is great, but I’d still girth hitch a back up to my rope harness separately. Beyond that it looked picture perfect to me, and again I recognize that as a preference more than anything. Likely more to do with how I was taught than right or wrong.
Why are there three QuickDraws to start?
Thank you
Two questions:
1. Why were there two quickdraws on the ‘right’ anchor (one through bolt; one through ring)?
2. Why did you lower from the figure-8 on a bite rather than re-tie in (I can appreciate that is an additional step but it seems like the loose rope could be more of a hazard)?
Thank you,
- CW
It is an additional step and it’s unnecessary. This method is Right out of Mastering Climbing basics by Topher D.
Some people use a third carabiner on an anchor to make the surface bigger, reduce friction and avoid damage on the rope
What do you do if the Rings are not wide enough for the doubled rope?
You anchor yourself to the bolts, pull up slack in the rope, tie off figure 8 on a bight, attach that to your belay loop with a locking carabiner, untie your original knot that is tied to your harness, pull the end of the rope through the rings, tie back to your harness, unclip the figure 8 on a bight from your belay loop and untie the knot, ask your belayer to take to test the system, clean your draws and lower.
I wonder why you couldn’t tie back into harness hard points?
Hey I just learned how to clean about a week ago via rappelling and was told that it's the best for the rope and and anchors so why would an areas preferred method be to lower from the anchor?
Lowering is much safer than rappelling since you stay in the same system the whole time, and anchor chains/rings aren't that expensive to replace. Just donate to your local org if you feel like you are wearing a lot of anchors
I have been told to not run rope through the anchor because it can wear through them quickly. Is this wrong?
Do not use the rings to top rope through them. You clean anchors when you are done with the route and dont intend to climb it anymore.
It also helps the rap rings last longer if you repel so the weighted rope isn’t being run through the rings on descent. That said, this is safe.
Depends on where you are.
Great question! Ultimately yes, every time someone lowers through something it adds some amount of wear and tear. Unfortunately, lots of this wear comes from laziness. Groups of 3+ will go out and the "experienced" climber will climb up first. They realize no one else in the group can clean the anchor. They also realize they might not want to climb it again. So they decide to setup the top rope through the actual rappel rings. Then they top rope everyone in their group, over and over, from the rappel rings.
This is not cool. It's both poor style and poor ethics.
Ultimately, ANY rope sliding through the lowering implement will add some wear. In my personal opinion, climbing areas would be much better off if we all just adopted a "one lower policy".
i.e. every single group that decides to use any particular anchor is only permitted one lower off from that anchor.
Always lower when possible. Rap rings cost $3 and 80% of sport accidents are from rappelling.
Just curious, what's the benefit to loading the rope through a third draw as it appears you have it?
Seems he’s using it as his second anchor point for his pas. I use two locking biners attached to a sling tied with a super 8 instead for my pas
Why would you attach gear to the loops? Those are meant for the rope. Gear in the loops can cause burres and therefore can damage the rope.
Another question: what is the use with the third quickdraw? Is it for extra safety?
Possibly, but fair point. Not really sure why that was there, my friend set up the anchor
They are steel. Wont hurt them a bit with an aluminum biner.
awsome video bud. Which PAS do you use?
Metolious
Curious. Why add the quickdraw to the belay loop and then to your 2nd figure 8 towards the end?? Or at least that's what I saw.... lol. Just not sure what the added quickdraw at the end is contributing to.
Seems to be for redundancy sake
if the biner fail, your dead. If you have two, you have redundancy.
I wondering that too. I usually tie the end of the rope back to the two loops in my harness.
This looks like such a pain in the ass after a tough climb. The cleanup is the only thing that's holding me back from wanting to climb outside, so much stuff to remember to do. If anyone has any tips to get over this feeling let me know.
You could climb first - and let your climbing partner clean the route. Once you're familiar with these systems, it takes about a minute or two - quick and efficient. Get outside, you won't regret it. #peace
I also do the quickdraw thing. I think only a biner is not enough, not because it can break (impossible), because of human error. Ive seen people touching the carabiner when rappelling down. It's always good to have an extra quickdraw there just in case
TIL Bight is spelled Bight not Bite , also, great video, TY
I don't like lowering through the rappel rings. will wear them out over time for other climbers. Better to do all those things then pull the rope through, attach an ATC and rappel down
Which is exactly what is not recommended nowadays, unless local rules dictate it or the fixed hardware is in critical condition. Climber safety is considered more important than protection lifespan by default.
Oh! You turn it into a top rope anchor, get lowered, then pull the rope thru! I never understood how this was done…
what's with having 3 quick-draws on the anchors?
Not exactly sure. My friend set it up like that. I was just cleaning
less stress on the rope and wider movement i think
Everything looked sound.....until I saw you clip gates in. #teamgatesout
This is pretty much the way I was taught by an instructor to do it in the UK. Want anything new for me.
wow 3 quickdraws for anchor
reppin CRG
Im confused...I've heard youre supposed to always repel to reduce wear on the rap rings
+Nash Firebaugh Actually its generally encouraged to lower these days. If it's only once after everyone has climbed it, the wear is very minimal. I have talked to stewards at both the Red and the New, and they prefer people to lower. Most accidents in climbing happen when rappelling. As I said in the video, check with your local maintainers first, but this is pretty standard for single pitch sport climbs nowadays.
Oh okay thanks for the reply! There's a 100ft climb im thinking of doing in my area, but i only have a 60m rope so would repelling be my only option?
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but whether you rappel or lower doesn't matter, since in both cases you are using half the total length of the rope. For a 100ft climb, you are approaching your limit with a 60m rope, since 60m is about 200ft, however because of rope stretch you SHOULD be okay. Just be sure to tie a stopper knot in the belayers end of the rope if you choose to lower (and if you rappel, a stopper knot in both ends of the rope). If you are confused, seek professional advice. Last thing you want to do is to get stranded while rappelling or lowering and needing a rescue, or worse, rappelling off the end of your rope or having the belayer run out of rope as they are lowering you.
that's interesting, the local ethics call for lowering through the rings... is it more of a safety call? baffles me why the preference to gradually rack up wear and tear with every nth climber lowering through it.
oh i've one more question, why in this particular setup, there are two identical looking quickdraws on the right bolt, and only only one on the left?
ask for a take from belayer BEFORE removing quick draws or untying. you put your life on a system before weighting it while still on the old system.
He weighted his personal safety before removing any quick draws. The figure eight on a bite into his belay loop is only a backup at this point. He then weighted the belay loop before he removed the personal safety. At no point did he put his life on a system before weighting it.
He did.
Nice
Him : I am not an expert.
Him : Lists expert credentials.
I get the disclaimer but the guy clearly knows his shite. Respeck.
OMG at 1:40 did you just open the carabiner on a loaded anchor quickdraw and reuse it?
Yes, one of three
The left bolt is slightly higher, so that draw was taking the load
i dont understand the issue here, its super common for trad to clove into a masterpoint, which opens it twice, and even more times in some situations.
That works fine, but takes forever. For instance, instead of using the cumbersome figure-8, tie in with a bowline (double bowline or a bowline with Yosemite finish), and you can simply take up a bit of slack, clove hitch the rope to a biner on your harness, untie your knot, thread through the anchor, and quickly retie a bowline. And it is so much faster than this. Your belayer will thank you. I know faster is not always better, but it sure makes things more efficient and fun.
I don’t see how that would significantly faster. Seems like it would be exactly the same. The way I do it in the video also has the benefit of never being off belay. With what you’re suggesting you would be on your directs alone while you thread. You could clove hitch to a biner on your belay loop, but you’d still be at risk of whipping on the last bolt if your direct failed. With my way you’d just take a big top rope fall.
Your direct will NEVER fail. And you don't need to worry about dropping the rope if you simply clove or knot it to you. You do have to tie in again, but that's super easy with a bowline. It takes literally a few second to tie. But to each their own. I didn't want to say your way was bad. It's fine, but just slower, IMHO. And not every anchor has huge rappel rings to feed a double strand of rope through, so it would be hard to do it your way all the time. Anyway, I hate to argue.. sorry....Stay safe!
No worries, I don’t see it as an argument, we’re just discussing different methods. I personally prefer the figure 8 over the bowline, it’s easier to visually check. With my method you skip the step of clove hitching and just pull up slack and push a bight through, and tying a figure 8 on a bight is super fast. I agree there are not always rings or quicklinks to do that, but if that’s the case I would probably rap instead of lowering.
Retie method should only be used when you can’t pass a bite through as it’s safer statistically.
Thx, basicaly ok method, vid title says 'FAST!', but I'd say you could in fact not do it much slower: indeed as mentioned by someone, way too much communication; you back up your safety (no need, you're still on belay, in fact most sport climbers use another quickdraw to hang off instead of separate safety), you try thread the rope with one hand, why not use both (pulling up rope as you thread it), and that extra quickdraw into your belay loop, well you said it. And indeed, as mentioned, draws left by your partner seem not to be opposite and opposed. Sorry, although mostly safe, as your disclaimer says, this vid should not be seen as instructional.
Armchair. How do you know the fall potential when he pulled 10 feet of slack? Always back it up like he did. How do you know the cleaning position? Sometimes using one hand helped you balance.
I don't understand why you would lower rather than rappel? he said it's so you don't have to take yourself off the rope, but the rope is suported by the anchors, so why is connecting yourself right to the anchor any less safe than being tied into the rope?
The way I do it in this video you are never off belay. Even when you take up slack to feed the bight you are only potentially facing a small fall. If you were to rappel you would be completely off belay while setting it up. The majority of accidents in climbing happen during rappelling. This way is also significantly faster
@@IanYoungOutdoors I mean, I'm not going to tell you that you're wrong, everyone has their own way of doing things, I just don't get it
The reason you don't understand, is because you refuse to look at this from any other perspective other than your own. The AMGA and American Alpine Club recommend lowering rather than rappelling because of the data that they have collected showing that most climbing accidents happen when people who are not well versed choose to rappel rather than lower. In the community it appears that people are encouraged to rap rather than lower (much like your comment suggests) because of the hardware lasting longer bla bla bla. If you feel comfortable doing it, then go for it. But this idea that everyone should do it because the folks who know how to do it say so, is not only ridiculous, but its getting people killed. Here is the document so you don't have to take my word for it. americanalpineclub.org/resources-blog/2016/3/15/5ipkouk0id07cgc3dqks4fljnsgnx6
@@snelso80 that's a perfect valid reason to do it that way, but it's not the reason he gives in the video
Two different systems. Rappelling requires a completely different system. And 80% of ALL sport accidents are during rappel transfers. So it’s idiotic to not lower even for highly experienced climbers.
Incoming elitist hear way over complicated but life ya life
man, this is NOT fast
So you are yelling for SLACK, LIKE TEN FEET, she yells GOOD? you YEP, you ALRIGHT SHEILA TAKE, she READY, you STANDBY.
Also at the very end you are yelling I'M READY, she yells she'll LOWER and you OKAY.
Almost all of that communication is unnecessary and can lead to miscommunication if for example the belayer isn't able to understand you.
In my eyes, a better way is to just use two commandos in this case:
SHEILA TAKE, SHEILA DOWN. In this order.
a) you don't have to yell SLACK - you are still on belay. She'll give slack if you pull up the slack
b) no need to clip your lanyard into both bolts as its only needed to free both hands - you are still on belay
c) you don't have to screw your locker closed because again - you are still on belay
These are just my 2 cents. Sometimes less communication is better, most definitly if it's noisy (road nearby, people talking next to the belayer, many climbers yelling around commandos).
Keep it simple and fast without sacrificing safety!
I agree about the excessive communication. We were alone at the crag that day so it was easy to talk/hear. But I usually try to avoid it. Your other points make sense and might speed things up a bit. Thanks for the input
Really you don't even have to say take. If she is belaying you, she should catch you if you let go.
Then down. With newer climbers I say take. But with my experienced friends I just let go and then I say down.
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