Also wear a helmet when you lead BELAY! Recently, my friend almost died from a rock being pulled off a climb (it was not known to be a chossy area!). He was not wearing a helmet. The rope pulled him forward as the climber fell, and the rock scraped up his back. If he did not get pulled forward, his head would've been bashed in.
Taking in slack when the rope is clipped above the climber like toprope. Makes so much sense but not talked about in many lead belay tutorials (09:24). Good point!
I want to point this out for anyone who's watching this in preparation for their own lead test. It is very rare for gyms failing you for not climbing a route. This is really unfair and has nothing to do with your safety abilities. Most gyms will put you on a 5.9 or 5.10 but you are not required to flash the route by any means.
I think at touchstone, they want to see how you behave when the climb is a bit pumpy and you're scared. Plus they make sure the lead test fall is overhung which, tend to be over 10a, making for a clean fall and less chance of injury. I see lots of people struggle on lead and make sloppy and dangerous mistakes. You should fail if you act sketched when pumped.
Mine will not pass you unless you can send 5.9. In my first 6 months of climbing I failed about 3-4 times but just kept whipping until eventually I sent and took the required test/victory whip. GGEZ
Touchstone will fail you if you don't flash or red-point it. It's a tough test, but the climb itself is juggy and not really that technically difficult. While it took me three tries as well even though the climbing portion was never the issue. After passing the test, I read the fine print and they 90% want you to take their lead climbing class first. I can see why. Firstly, I climbed when I was 8 to 35 then started taking up climbing again. I't a cool experience. So, I have much mountaineering and climbing experience under my belt. Was able to lead 5.12a/b and sport 13a/b, boulder V8, yada yada years ago. Even so, I had to learn quite a bit of new skills which gym climbing requires. One, you need to learn to clip fast, and pumped, second you need to feed out rope and expect the leader to fall much farther since the second worst thing a belayer does is short rope the leader. It's my friend's turn to attempt the lead test now. Going to help her as much as possible. Remember, no matter how many years of experience you have and have had, you can always learn new skills, and safely in the gym thanks to the staff.
I love that you shared footage of the test! I am getting ready to take my lead test at Mesa rim in the same gym, and I'm feeling more relieved watching your video. Thanks!!
So I take from this that there is a minimum climbing grade expected of you before you should even contemplate leading - on an indoor wall? How quaint. If my mates and me hadn't been prepared to lead trad (though then it was just called "climbing") from the word go we'd never have become climbers. The first time I ever experienced any formal assessment of my abilities was when I was working to become a professional instructor.
It actually does. They want to be able to match you up with random other people they know have passed their testing standard. Safety is key. Although, using their method I did see someone fall from the third clip end up a couple feel from his belayer. It was, however, safe.
You need to do both proficiently. Gym climbing encompasses a wider variety of climbers. In the old days, the filtering process was a bit more permanent.
@@Li-Hu-M-C sure but the tester failing the belayer because of the climbers ability doesn't make sense... I've had belays from people who climb way harder than I do... should they not have passed their tests....
Another bit about gym belay tests: I watched the legendary Tom Frost politely take it at the BRC years ago, and wondered if the staff knew how many FAs in Yosemite and around the world he'd done, when hip belays were the standard. He passed first time, fortunately.
Ok in the UK they wanted training and tests, in France they didn't care lol. And now I'm climbing outdoors without any tests or classes. Just get a friend who is responsible and knows what they're doing.
same in italy, these certification don't exist (thank god btw)... i dont think you would find a single lead-belay-whatever certified climber in the entire nation... people just go to climbing classes which have no test of sort, or get taught by friends
Appreciate the vid. Pointing out your own learning moments (friend clipped to the left, being aware of where, as a belayer, you should stand) was especially helpful. Also thanks for sharing insightful videos that helped you. Well done
I think it’s dumb that the gym fails you if you fall on the climb but it’s even dumber to fail the belayer who successfully caught the falling climber… like that’s actually one of the dumbest things I’ve heard in a while
you learn how to belay so you can catch a falling climber in unexpected situation. The climber fell in unexpected situation - you didn’t pass. I think it’s not about education or safety. It’s about gym owners safety from responsibilities
im doing the same thing you did. i work at a climbing gym but our lead class only runs once a month if it gets at least 3 sign ups, we havent run it in at least 2 months, so im just teaching myself
5:27 This seems to be a useful tip for your belayer as well, who isn't wearing a helmet in the shot just before ;) I'd say it's probably even more important, since you'd be both in trouble when matter such as a falling rock or a piece of gear would knock them out or injure them in a way that affects their ability to get you back down safely. 12:38 How I've learned it, staying close enough is mainly important during the first few quick draws, but later you can move a bit further away, to get a better view of what the climber is doing and a bigger range of freedom in your movements to adapt to the climbers actions.
here are some tips for the test I learned on my first try and failed at. 1. always make sure the rope is in front of you and not behind you will fail if the rope is behind your knee, leg, or foot. 2. when belaying I learned that where you stand is important so right under the first clip is the best, also how much slack you give is also important. 3. also don't expect to get it on your first try it will take a few tests before you get your lead card. Hope this helps, climb on
Failing you because you fall off the route is completely stupid. It's supposed to assess your ability to climb and belay safely, not your climbing grade. If anything, it shows that the belaying was being done properly, because the fall was safe. After this you're likely going to project routes where you will fall unexpectedly, or do they take away your qualification if you ever fall off a lead route?
Standing close to the wall is more important when the climber is much heavier than you as when they fall you will get pulled into the wall more forcefully. Was fine with your friend as you must be similar weights
Not really, even if you're similar weight if you are away from the wall you can only give a hard catch. A hard catch when not necessarily, slamming the climber into the wall is one of the most common lead injuries.
that must be that online source the guy is talking about in the video ... uff, guys, ITS DANGEROUS FOR YOUR LIFE. ask someone with experience not the internet. jesus @@Aaron-xq6hv
I dont get why at @ 9:00 you said if you fall when you're not supposed to fall, it's an automatic failure. I could fall if my leg slipped, or i missed a hold or the route was just too hard. Isn't a lead test just to test my lead safety skills? Why is a premature fall an automatic failure? And the part where your friend fell while climbing and you only got the lead climb card while your friend got the lead belay card? That's the stupidest shit I've seen in my climbing life. Wassup with all these gyms failing lead climbers in the gym based on how well they climb, its as if they want you to fail.. To make more money? Ive been leading single pitch for 4 years now, and I'm pretty sure I would still fail half of these gym's "lead test"
4:15 "leading on easy routes is more dangerous." A basic but now anachronistic tenet of old trad was "the leader must not fall." Leaders were expected to be comfortable even with long runouts, as belays were more for the safety of the follower. Easy climbs often meander, and placing trad protection can be trickier, to manage rope drag, keeping pieces from lifting out from directional rope tension, etc. Lower angle and wandering lines make falls more likely to impact outcrops, ledges, while harder steep lines make for clean free falls. Old school mountain club progression went along the lines of the rating system the Sierra Club created 100 years ago: Class 1 = flat trail; Cl. 2 easy scrambling; C. 3 = exposed scrambling; C. 4 = easy climbing; Cl. 5 = technical climbing (Cl. 6 = aid climbing). 5th class was soon divided into decimals to indicate difficulty: 5.0-5.9, adding 5.10, 5.11, etc. as free standards advanced. Experience grew from multi-hour treks, and fitness and coordination gave confidence on exposed terrain, to where an advanced leader might only climb 5.7, yet have no issue running the rope out on 5.2. Skills impossible to shortcut include developing a sense of rock quality, where a hold may be loose, or crumbly; how to maintain "three points of contact" so if one fails, or slips, one can still hang on; in that vein, moving statically outdoors is safer than dynamic gym habits, because the next hold may not be as expected. Learning to downclimb can be valuable; getting off route is common, and reversing sequences to regain a safe stance or gear placement is very useful. An old friend who soloed many Eldorado 5.11s went so far as to downclimb every crux, before advancing, just to assure that he could reverse the route if he had to. Coming out of gyms, focusing on the gear, especially bolts, rather than poise and awareness, changes the mental game, and fosters an imbalance between self-confidence, and dependence on equipment for all aspects of safety. Scrambling today has gained fashion, but speed has overrun caution, and leaves out the deeper skills old-time mountaineers gained from time and mileage in the hills. I have lost many young friends in the past five years, in preventable accidents; even veterans have made errors, out of complacency or inattention. Modern belaying obscures the dramatic forces generated in falls, and a healthy level of fear can keep one focused; respect it, don't try to lose it.
Tbh I would have tested with someone else after the second time my climber fell, it’s dumb they fail for nikki falling but not my fault my climber can’t climb this route in one go.
the fact that you didn't take the belay pass on your first examination due to the fact your partner is missing his lead test makes no sense at all. i mean if your partner is not able to send a route it's not your fault. it makes more sense if you do the test first with an instruction belaying you and the belaying an instructor. anyway here in europe (italy) we don't have this test. you can lead and belay anyone and anywhere.
You had me until you put your finger through the gate 🤦🏼 It might be the fastest method but it’s not the safest. Byebye finger, if you fall and it gets caught at the wrong moment. To me putting your finger through the gate is like climbing with rings on. 🥴
I know classes can feel expensive, but trust me… it is so much faster and safer to learn from qualified instructors! $100 is nothing if it saves you from a hospital bill (or worse) later on. I have nothing against self learning, but it can easily leave you with holes in your technique. Climbing comes with a lot of responsibility, especially when belaying; make sure you know what you’re doing before you get out there yourself. Be very careful and stay safe.
Failing for falling makes zero sense. Outside on rocks there will be unpredicted falls. Why not prepare for things like that? This makes no sense to me at all.
I can't comprehend why someone wouldn't spend $100 on something that could literally the difference between life and death. But would happily spend that money on clothes or gear... Insanity.
Argument that people did not take the classes old school is just stupid. If you can increase security by learning how to secure properly then do it. And climbing outdoors are different than gym. And yeah, helmet isnt stupid huh.
So, maybe the fact that it took you 3 tries to pass your lead test should make us all think twice about who we partner with when doing the test. If someone can't climb the test climb, they will ruin it for both parties. That sucks. I hope I'm not that person!
Also wear a helmet when you lead BELAY! Recently, my friend almost died from a rock being pulled off a climb (it was not known to be a chossy area!). He was not wearing a helmet. The rope pulled him forward as the climber fell, and the rock scraped up his back. If he did not get pulled forward, his head would've been bashed in.
Taking in slack when the rope is clipped above the climber like toprope. Makes so much sense but not talked about in many lead belay tutorials (09:24). Good point!
I want to point this out for anyone who's watching this in preparation for their own lead test.
It is very rare for gyms failing you for not climbing a route. This is really unfair and has nothing to do with your safety abilities.
Most gyms will put you on a 5.9 or 5.10 but you are not required to flash the route by any means.
I think at touchstone, they want to see how you behave when the climb is a bit pumpy and you're scared. Plus they make sure the lead test fall is overhung which, tend to be over 10a, making for a clean fall and less chance of injury. I see lots of people struggle on lead and make sloppy and dangerous mistakes. You should fail if you act sketched when pumped.
Mine will not pass you unless you can send 5.9. In my first 6 months of climbing I failed about 3-4 times but just kept whipping until eventually I sent and took the required test/victory whip. GGEZ
Touchstone lead test is a .10b. They will let you make mistakes or even fall as long as you are safe.
Touchstone will fail you if you don't flash or red-point it. It's a tough test, but the climb itself is juggy and not really that technically difficult. While it took me three tries as well even though the climbing portion was never the issue. After passing the test, I read the fine print and they 90% want you to take their lead climbing class first. I can see why.
Firstly, I climbed when I was 8 to 35 then started taking up climbing again. I't a cool experience. So, I have much mountaineering and climbing experience under my belt. Was able to lead 5.12a/b and sport 13a/b, boulder V8, yada yada years ago.
Even so, I had to learn quite a bit of new skills which gym climbing requires.
One, you need to learn to clip fast, and pumped, second you need to feed out rope and expect the leader to fall much farther since the second worst thing a belayer does is short rope the leader.
It's my friend's turn to attempt the lead test now. Going to help her as much as possible.
Remember, no matter how many years of experience you have and have had, you can always learn new skills, and safely in the gym thanks to the staff.
you shouldnt be leading if you cant climb the super easy routes they test on.
Take a shot for every time Boss says “but Nikki couldn’t finish the route” 😭😭😭😭 loljk GREAT VID COME BACK SO WE CAN FINISH FINALLYYY
I love that you shared footage of the test! I am getting ready to take my lead test at Mesa rim in the same gym, and I'm feeling more relieved watching your video. Thanks!!
That’s awesome! The staff say that the test route is a little more pumpy than it looks but I’m sure you’ll get it! Happy climbing~
it was insightful that you included what you did wrong during your belay tests. would not have thought of those.
So I take from this that there is a minimum climbing grade expected of you before you should even contemplate leading - on an indoor wall? How quaint. If my mates and me hadn't been prepared to lead trad (though then it was just called "climbing") from the word go we'd never have become climbers. The first time I ever experienced any formal assessment of my abilities was when I was working to become a professional instructor.
At my local hub in Canada it’s $170/215 member/non-member. Two 3 hour lessons tho and free test, so could be worth if high quality.
so they failed you on the belay section because your partner couldn't do the climb... right, makes sense.
It actually does. They want to be able to match you up with random other people they know have passed their testing standard. Safety is key.
Although, using their method I did see someone fall from the third clip end up a couple feel from his belayer. It was, however, safe.
No it.does. It make.sense..The partner fell, he caught her fine, why give him a penalty?
@@Li-Hu-M-CI disagree. They should be assessing the belayer. I have partners who are better climbers than me and who aren't as able...
You need to do both proficiently.
Gym climbing encompasses a wider variety of climbers.
In the old days, the filtering process was a bit more permanent.
@@Li-Hu-M-C sure but the tester failing the belayer because of the climbers ability doesn't make sense... I've had belays from people who climb way harder than I do... should they not have passed their tests....
Another bit about gym belay tests: I watched the legendary Tom Frost politely take it at the BRC years ago, and wondered if the staff knew how many FAs in Yosemite and around the world he'd done, when hip belays were the standard. He passed first time, fortunately.
Ok in the UK they wanted training and tests, in France they didn't care lol.
And now I'm climbing outdoors without any tests or classes. Just get a friend who is responsible and knows what they're doing.
same in italy, these certification don't exist (thank god btw)... i dont think you would find a single lead-belay-whatever certified climber in the entire nation... people just go to climbing classes which have no test of sort, or get taught by friends
Appreciate the vid. Pointing out your own learning moments (friend clipped to the left, being aware of where, as a belayer, you should stand) was especially helpful. Also thanks for sharing insightful videos that helped you. Well done
Fantastic! This is the best overview I've seen on the process of gym testing. Great video :)
I think it’s dumb that the gym fails you if you fall on the climb but it’s even dumber to fail the belayer who successfully caught the falling climber… like that’s actually one of the dumbest things I’ve heard in a while
you learn how to belay so you can catch a falling climber in unexpected situation.
The climber fell in unexpected situation - you didn’t pass.
I think it’s not about education or safety. It’s about gym owners safety from responsibilities
At touchstone it now costs $180 for non members and $120 for members 😞
im doing the same thing you did. i work at a climbing gym but our lead class only runs once a month if it gets at least 3 sign ups, we havent run it in at least 2 months, so im just teaching myself
5:27 This seems to be a useful tip for your belayer as well, who isn't wearing a helmet in the shot just before ;) I'd say it's probably even more important, since you'd be both in trouble when matter such as a falling rock or a piece of gear would knock them out or injure them in a way that affects their ability to get you back down safely.
12:38 How I've learned it, staying close enough is mainly important during the first few quick draws, but later you can move a bit further away, to get a better view of what the climber is doing and a bigger range of freedom in your movements to adapt to the climbers actions.
here are some tips for the test I learned on my first try and failed at.
1. always make sure the rope is in front of you and not behind you will fail if the rope is behind your knee, leg, or foot.
2. when belaying I learned that where you stand is important so right under the first clip is the best, also how much slack you give is also important.
3. also don't expect to get it on your first try it will take a few tests before you get your lead card.
Hope this helps, climb on
Good job on this video! Well researched and explained.
I love seeing Mesa Rim on RUclips!
How I learned to lead without paying for classes: learn rules of rope management, got rope, took lead test, fail several times pumping out, send, GGEZ
Failing you because you fall off the route is completely stupid. It's supposed to assess your ability to climb and belay safely, not your climbing grade. If anything, it shows that the belaying was being done properly, because the fall was safe. After this you're likely going to project routes where you will fall unexpectedly, or do they take away your qualification if you ever fall off a lead route?
“$150 for a lead climbing class is basically stealing.”
Here in Switzerland, lead climbing classes are 300$ 😫
Great video!
Standing close to the wall is more important when the climber is much heavier than you as when they fall you will get pulled into the wall more forcefully. Was fine with your friend as you must be similar weights
Not really, even if you're similar weight if you are away from the wall you can only give a hard catch. A hard catch when not necessarily, slamming the climber into the wall is one of the most common lead injuries.
that must be that online source the guy is talking about in the video ... uff, guys, ITS DANGEROUS FOR YOUR LIFE. ask someone with experience not the internet. jesus
@@Aaron-xq6hv
Do you mind turning the urls into clickable link's? Can't copy and paste from RUclips Android app. Great video and thanks!!!
Mesa Rim, nice!
lmao you’re down to drop $300 on a rope, $100+ on QuickDraws, etc. but not $60 for a class? pls explain
I dont get why at @ 9:00 you said if you fall when you're not supposed to fall, it's an automatic failure. I could fall if my leg slipped, or i missed a hold or the route was just too hard. Isn't a lead test just to test my lead safety skills? Why is a premature fall an automatic failure? And the part where your friend fell while climbing and you only got the lead climb card while your friend got the lead belay card? That's the stupidest shit I've seen in my climbing life. Wassup with all these gyms failing lead climbers in the gym based on how well they climb, its as if they want you to fail.. To make more money? Ive been leading single pitch for 4 years now, and I'm pretty sure I would still fail half of these gym's "lead test"
4:15 "leading on easy routes is more dangerous." A basic but now anachronistic tenet of old trad was "the leader must not fall." Leaders were expected to be comfortable even with long runouts, as belays were more for the safety of the follower. Easy climbs often meander, and placing trad protection can be trickier, to manage rope drag, keeping pieces from lifting out from directional rope tension, etc. Lower angle and wandering lines make falls more likely to impact outcrops, ledges, while harder steep lines make for clean free falls.
Old school mountain club progression went along the lines of the rating system the Sierra Club created 100 years ago: Class 1 = flat trail; Cl. 2 easy scrambling; C. 3 = exposed scrambling; C. 4 = easy climbing; Cl. 5 = technical climbing (Cl. 6 = aid climbing). 5th class was soon divided into decimals to indicate difficulty: 5.0-5.9, adding 5.10, 5.11, etc. as free standards advanced.
Experience grew from multi-hour treks, and fitness and coordination gave confidence on exposed terrain, to where an advanced leader might only climb 5.7, yet have no issue running the rope out on 5.2. Skills impossible to shortcut include developing a sense of rock quality, where a hold may be loose, or crumbly; how to maintain "three points of contact" so if one fails, or slips, one can still hang on; in that vein, moving statically outdoors is safer than dynamic gym habits, because the next hold may not be as expected. Learning to downclimb can be valuable; getting off route is common, and reversing sequences to regain a safe stance or gear placement is very useful. An old friend who soloed many Eldorado 5.11s went so far as to downclimb every crux, before advancing, just to assure that he could reverse the route if he had to.
Coming out of gyms, focusing on the gear, especially bolts, rather than poise and awareness, changes the mental game, and fosters an imbalance between self-confidence, and dependence on equipment for all aspects of safety.
Scrambling today has gained fashion, but speed has overrun caution, and leaves out the deeper skills old-time mountaineers gained from time and mileage in the hills. I have lost many young friends in the past five years, in preventable accidents; even veterans have made errors, out of complacency or inattention. Modern belaying obscures the dramatic forces generated in falls, and a healthy level of fear can keep one focused; respect it, don't try to lose it.
Good climbing Boss
#3 convinced me
Thanks to this video I grew a pair and went out and taught myself. I'm now certified at my local gym without having to pay for any classes.
My gym test you put on a 5.7, it's weird they failed you for falling as that's climbing technique not lead technique
Tbh I would have tested with someone else after the second time my climber fell, it’s dumb they fail for nikki falling but not my fault my climber can’t climb this route in one go.
I’m trying to learn lead and I thought about doing that same 5.7. Easy rider. 😂😂😂😂😂it’s terrifying.
the fact that you didn't take the belay pass on your first examination due to the fact your partner is missing his lead test makes no sense at all. i mean if your partner is not able to send a route it's not your fault. it makes more sense if you do the test first with an instruction belaying you and the belaying an instructor. anyway here in europe (italy) we don't have this test. you can lead and belay anyone and anywhere.
You had me until you put your finger through the gate 🤦🏼
It might be the fastest method but it’s not the safest. Byebye finger, if you fall and it gets caught at the wrong moment. To me putting your finger through the gate is like climbing with rings on. 🥴
i don't get it ... Do you get a fine in the us for leadclimbing whithout a licence ?
No, you need to get a lead card to climb inside gyms
I know classes can feel expensive, but trust me… it is so much faster and safer to learn from qualified instructors! $100 is nothing if it saves you from a hospital bill (or worse) later on.
I have nothing against self learning, but it can easily leave you with holes in your technique. Climbing comes with a lot of responsibility, especially when belaying; make sure you know what you’re doing before you get out there yourself. Be very careful and stay safe.
Failing for falling makes zero sense. Outside on rocks there will be unpredicted falls. Why not prepare for things like that? This makes no sense to me at all.
I can't comprehend why someone wouldn't spend $100 on something that could literally the difference between life and death. But would happily spend that money on clothes or gear... Insanity.
Argument that people did not take the classes old school is just stupid. If you can increase security by learning how to secure properly then do it. And climbing outdoors are different than gym. And yeah, helmet isnt stupid huh.
Climbing gyms in the US really try to make you hate climbing huh
Read book, make friends
So, maybe the fact that it took you 3 tries to pass your lead test should make us all think twice about who we partner with when doing the test. If someone can't climb the test climb, they will ruin it for both parties. That sucks. I hope I'm not that person!
1:17 = Video over, go seek qualified instruction lmao, regardless of the title of the video
imagine trying to take a lead test with a woman on a 65 ft climb maybe he will get his certification on his 7th try