They really need to figure put selesnya, green and white should be a strong combination and yet almost every selesnya creature is a +1/1 gimmick and maybe hexproof.
@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus New card prices for the normal arts, absolutely. I could see some of the fancy arts and treatments going for above 10, and some older, rarer cards.
Chulane isn’t irresponsible *enough* for you? What do you want? An overloaded Cyclonic Rift effect on ETB for 5-6 CMC, which also searches up a land during upkeep if you’re behind, gives you a 2nd land-drop per turn, and makes a Treasure w/ each Landfall Trigger? That’s about one MH3-sized design iteration beyond Chulane, Teller of Tales.
Simic is called trust fund colours for a reason. 11 years ago, Simic kinda sucked outside of legacy and commander. Then something horrible happened, prophet of kruphix was printed. It was only really a problem in commander, but it gave the wrong person a taste of the kind of power black players felt when necropotence was first printed. This led them to making more and more hideously broken cards for Simic and commander was a believable scapegoat. Before the "I'm actually" comments start flying, this is mostly a joke.
@@qriist1850 I was going to go full drill Sargent on you until I realised I too was that foolish once upon a time. Leyline of anticipation and seed born muse are already really strong, but if you staple them together, like prophet of kruphix, you get something that warps the game entirely.
@@professionalhater3929 Lean into the commonality that Blue and Green share: They're both INCREDIBLY powerful late-game colours, and they have ways of helping get to that late game (tons of ramp for green, strong control for blue) IMO, simic colours should be the "sea monster" colours. Massive statlines, big prices, and strong abilities.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I honestly believe that Nadu was a typo and it was meant to say this ability only triggers twice per turn not twice per creature per turn but WotC was too stubborn to admit they screwed up
It's that he gives each of your creatures that little text bubble. If it was instead limited to himself having that ability, it'd be less egregious because you'd have to flicker him constantly (which costs resources, and allows interaction)
I don’t play modern, but I’ve been following the Nadu situation. Seems like the easiest path is the most direct. Ban nadu and it won’t be breaking the format. One thing I’ve learned about magic players: they will find a way to break something. So why give them the opportunity. Editing for clarity: why give them the opportunity to find a way to break nadu by simply banning shuko
Because finding new ways to break a card is fun? Though I enjoy the brewing aspect of the game and banning an enabler seems like a fun challenge. I don't play modern either, but I am fine with them trying the Shuko ban first to see if it is the bird + Shuko that is broken or just the bird. That being said I don't care either way.
In modern, Shuko is the only equipment which innately equips for 0 Now, splash white mana and you can now run Puresteel Paladin, which makes every equipment equip for 0 if you have 3 or more artifacts Banning Nadu, rather than Shuko, is the wise move, because uf you ban shuko you'll just gwt the Nadu decks splashing for puresteel
@@ExodaCrownshuko isn’t the only 0 costing to target though. There’s a creature that targets for 0 whose name I can’t remember, and there’s also lightning greaves. Greaves would be slightly worst than shuko though because you can’t find it with urza’s saga. So there’s three possible things you’d have to ban to find out if it’s truly the bird or not. Sense seems to say just save the headache and ban the bird. But like you, I agree. Having said all this, I don’t really care that much and whatever they decide to do is of no consequence to me. I just find moments like this interesting
@@dreyfus37_65 I think I know the one you are talking about. The 0 to redirect damage from it to another creature? I seen it was a 1 of in the deck. I am curious how much switching to using Greaves would affect the deck. I was looking at the different decklists of it and while they use 1 Outrider En-Kor none use greaves or the other 0 cost to equip equipment since they usually cost 3. I think the line to draw is if you have to ban shuko and greaves before the bird becomes fair then yeah it should go. There no point in doing bans until the deck becomes unplayable. Though it is still funny the thought of banning Shuko.
@@ExodaCrown yeah the en-Kor. I think the reason shuko took off over greaves was because it’s 1 mana so you can get it on the last chapter of urza’s saga. Also the difference between 1 mana and 2 mana is crazy. Greaves would definitely slow the deck down, hell, even things that cost 1 to target will slow the deck down, but I don’t know if it makes the deck unplayable. I’m curious to see how it all plays out though
@khub5660 That would be incorrect. There are hundreds if not a couple thousand cards that no longer work the way they're printed either because of rules changes or wizards just not wording the card correctly. 2 great examples would be: the majority of lighting bolts printed and Wheel of Potential. Even Breya, etherium shaper's originally printing doesn't work as read anymore.
nadu was designed specifically this way will full knowledge by its designers, this would set the worst precedent possible of wizards just "fixing" any card they think is too good, this isn’t arena, if a card is broken just ban it
With all due respect, if you want Alchemy, go play Alchemy. This will not happen. When they errata cards it's only when one entire set mechanic gets out of hand, like the Companions or when they make a mistake in the rules text. Also if they start to errata cards willy nilly, what's stopping them from errata more cards, like Uro, Oko, Bowmaster, Ragavan, Guide of Souls etc etc.(just petty examples)... sooner instead of banning cards, they'll just Alchemy-up them all. So, NO, do not ask for an errata and don't attempt to open Pandora's Box again.
@@WitherFang If we wanted fucking alchemy, things would get *so much worse.* Like for example, a 2 cmc card that draws three, then you can choose to draw three again if you don't like those, and you don't have a max hand size for the rest of the game. *BECAUSE BALANCE.* Or perpetually removing all abilities from a creature, regardless of zone changes. Including on a commander. Erratas aren't alchemy. Erratas are why companions are only mostly bullshit. Though I agree that wizards needs to be careful and selective about erratas and should just ban Nadu instead, but comparing it to alchemy is just... *eugh.*
honestly i completely lost his train of thought when he mention grieves and then commented on how it is untutorable with saga and not being a real argument. like that is a very real argument. not having shuko means they cant tempo into a turn 3 kill off of saga going off, at best they need an entire extra turn to get all the peices together, and grieves giving shroud means you cant go off if you only have 1 creature
I don't see anyone riled up about Rotpriest which is way more toxic of a card, no pun intended... yes it was intended.. Nadu isn't even close to Rotpriest levels of borken.
Banning shuko is honestly an amazing compromise. Mainly for a few reasons, it leaves the deck with greaves to fall back on. Which is 2 drop so it slows the deck down very slightly, but makes the combo piece unfindable with saga. I think the 2 mana equipment, and the no tutoring might be a decent nerf to the deck.
The issue with civic was they didn't know what to do with it for so many years and then they figured out a handful of things that it does made them do it well and then continued printing things that made it better over time. And now we've reached this like terminal point where any new summit card that has the things that simmick already does well just gets added in and breaks it more. We are at like the event horizon of simic doing the same shit all the time
Kinnan is a killer in edh, no matter if the deck is a 5 a "7" or a 10. I just saw a Kinnan that's easy a 5 winning a table on the spot beacouse of how busted he is.
Nadu is oppressive even without Shuko and lightning greaves, [coming from commander] buddy plays a Nadu Untap deck, he went 4 and 1 first time out, and that is with three other people trying to stop him with some of our best non-CEDH. the last game I heard he played was against a blue-farm and another CEDH level deck that stacked him out. mind you his deck was not build with CEDH in mind and he still almost won. Ban the bird
1UG is simply too good of a color cost for the second-place ramp color identity (first going to mono green). Don’t give the color combo with access to the most resources discounts.
We have come a long way from Mystic Snake. And most likely gone a bit too far. Now, would Nadu be broken if the trigger was only once instead of two times? THAT's what interests me...
As long as the win for Nadu is consistant and is a 25+ minute non determinant drudge to a convoluted combo that might not even win that turn. Then Nadu should be the card banned
We know what should be done for the health of the game, and when the giant corporations inevitably makes the decision that sacrifices the heath of the game for the sake of the bottom line, we should respond in kind. Don’t let WotC get away with ruining modern from years of abusive power creep. Enough is enough.
They need to actually ban the problem card not the innocent bystander caught in the crossfire. If Shuko was banned instead something else would be found
The fact that no one wants to sanity check if it is Shuko or not dumb. Urzas saga is easily on par with eye of ugin as moderns most busted land. The fact is that this will happen again with another combo deck Nadu or not.
Here's a good simic card Bubble Buddy GB Instant If target creature would leave the battlefield this turn, instead exile it and return it to battlefield at the end of turn with a token copy of it with vanish 2.
I know balancing is always an issue but do we not expect simic to somehow continue to pull ahead when it’s colors do the two best things in magic. Ramp and draw cards
Simic is hard to balance. The combo does the most busted two things. Draw and land drops. BUT let's look at Amulet. It would have been easy to just ban Amulet. However, Wizards has a policy of banning the engine piece rather than the powerful card itself. The banned Summer Bloom so should ban Shuko in this spot.
My biggest problem with WoTC and their borderline negligence with Simic legends is from a purely commander perspective. I'll get this out of the way Nadu was a mistake but where wizards really drops the ball is not consistently putting out legends in other color combos that are at least comparable with the same frequency. I'm an Azorius mage and I can't think of a single legend that compares to Nadu or Kinnan in Azorius at a similar rate.
Simic has always been difficult to balance because green's advantages plus blue's advantages means every advantage. They both do card draw, they both do etb, green has mana and creatures, blue has instants and sorceries. And if they make a mediocre simic legendary, there's already plenty to choose from that ARE cracked.
Okay, but Nadu lost to Merfolk who won at the NRG 5K tourney before Pro Tour, with Nadu placing fourth behind Jeskai Control. Nadu is powerful, but I think folks calling for a ban because of Pro Tour results are experiencing recency bias. Plus, banning Nadu removes the only thing checking Mono Black Necro and Boros Energy from dominating the meta.
Correct. When you equip, you target a creature with the equip ability. Even crazier is you can equip it to a creature it’s already equipping to activate the effect again
The thing I hate most about Nadu? It means another 4 years (or longer) of unplayable Simic slop. I mean for real, all of the Simic cards that have come out since 2020 Simic are straight dogwater. Hell even with the exception of Nadu, a lot of the Simic cards (even in the Commander deck) are just straight snoozefests. Though I am admittedly somewhat partial to Jyogi, since he at least has interesting synergies.
😂 GU has everything you need to play Magic, play more Magic, deny playing Magic more effectively than every other color or combination of colors. Green has the highest amount of mana dorks while also having the highest amount of ramp spells.Green also has protection spells that grant hexproof or indestructible to stop opponents from being able to destroy your threats. Green also has access to draw engines and draw spells which can net you some card advantage. One of green's "weaknesses" is having big creatures that require a lot of mana. Which that is mitigated by its abundant access to mana ramp. Blue has the best card advantage draw spells and counter spells. What it lacks is big creatures or big game ending spells but it makes up for it in an abundance of small spells. The shared "weakness" of GU is their inability to deal with threats that have hit the board. This is actually untrue. They have spells like Beast Within, Pongify, Lignify, Frogify, Turn to Frog, and Kenrith's Transformation to name a few. It is just more effective to just not let the threats hit the board at all by countering every problematic action your opponent makes.
Tbh nadu is starting to feel like its creeping up on kennen, like kennen objectively has a more consistent gameplan and overall kore consistency, however that same power is being spead out over complex, hard to follow, i play all the magic while you guys watch kind of gameplan. Like sure make infinite kennen is the outlet and the enabler for winning the game and if it goes unanswered they win, i understand this and would much preffer to play against this. Campared to at the end of every players turn at the table the nadu player starts ripping thrasios triggers but not just pay mana do a thing. Its tedious and hard to keep track of too! I now have started telling nadu players at the begging of the game, your triggers are your responsibility, if you lose track of them at any point we will all assume youve used them all because going back to check is worse than pulling fingernails out one by one. If they ask the question did i already do this guy i say it openly, i dont know and wasnt tracking it so we will assume it has been done for the sake of boardstate, and if they have a problem with it i hit them with well we can always get you a games rule violation for failure to upkeep boardstate, if you cant even keep track of your own damn cards good golly, but time and time again now my casual night has people asking every turn did i do this guy already? I cant remeber cause every single turn i activate 6 things and i cant remember if i did it already this turn for the 5th turn in a row... like bro if you cant rememeber hit the pen less between games and we can all assume you did all the things this turn. I have such a problem with decks that take a 4 player game and instead of winning with their power instead they slowly drain the table of any spirt they had while acruing value over the next 12 peoples turns, nadu plays 66% of the magic at a 4 player table tell me im wrong
The sorcery speed card nah, I’m good. Get outrider and sylvan safe keeper, the instant speed activated abilities. Especially sylvan cause it makes the endurance loops way easier.
Just ban Nabu... WotC themselves made a set where they admitted 1 the power level was a bit on the hard side and that bans would come 2 that it was commander first modern price hike second. So just ban Nabu. Nobody will be surprised when the set is already overclocked and has already bans in it....that or you ban a equipment that is years old that only effected nabu in a spefic way, until either you find a new combo tool or wotc happens to print a common that fits the bill because they forgot that 1 cost 0 equip is spefic nabu territory.
could springheart nantuko cop the ban? itd force the nadu lists to play a worse creature with scute swarm and would also cut the infinite lines so you would probably have to play thoracle. idc really what gets banned i just doubt that wizards will ban the bird immediately for “deck variety”
Ban Nadu. You could play the deck in red and run a storm card for 1 mana that could target multiple creatures too. There so many other cards that need to die to.make this live. It also restricts design space a lot
Isn’t their like 137 cards that can do the combo and it’s not just the almost infinite. Just a untaper that can target itself gives dumb amount of value
Also shucko isn't the problem, nadu is. If your banning shucko because of nadu decks, then it isn't the pieces of the combo that is the problem, its the combo. The only reason shucko Even an issue is because of nadu.
Uro is nowhere near as strong as Nadu, Nadu makes tour board state taller for every single creature you have on board, Nadu quite literally is almost as bad as Chulane in terms of value and even then Nadu can do it for cheaper and faster.
Why don’t we ban all the cards that Nadu abuses that aren’t played in any other deck in modern? If the deck doesn’t have en-kor, or Shuko the deck has a bad curve doesn’t it not?
@@seandun7083 Just feels terrible to release a new magic card, that potentially opens a new play pattern for the format. Why not just shape the deck to do something much less annoying/degenerate? Without an efficient enabler most people will probably choose to simply not do the thing. When you consider how janky the deck truly is but is simply efficient says a lot.
well green identity is ramp and big threats and blue is draw/combo engine and been annoying so the logical evolution to simic was been busted...so Ban the f*cking bird and quit trying to balance Simic (unless is landfall, flash or Leviathans)
you mentioned yugioh so lemme give you an example of this here. Crystron Halqifibrax got several other cards banned because of interactions with it, it dodged several banlists and now that its finally gone all of the other cards are legal and doing nothing. point is, kill the bird. It's a the only way
😂 Yall realize they do this shit on purpose to make money, right? They know the power of cards, that’s why these days more cards get the once per turn clause. Just give it that clause.
The reason you ban shuko is SPECIFICALLY because greaves as a win con is not tutorable with urzas saga. Why isn’t that an argument? The 1 mana difference also does make an impressionable difference in what you can and can’t play when nadu “goes off.” Shuko in itself is a bad card. Before nadu, that was a crappy 3-4 dollar card. Hitting shuko wouldn’t affect the meta besides specifically nadu. Also personally, I think the idea of a card that has an infinite game action built into itself is kind of crazy and begging to be broken. Greaves and shuko both saying “equip whatever, whenever, as much as you want” is wild! ,, and shuko has it coming with lands that make it so easy to tutor.
![The Problem With [Playing] Boardwipes In EDH | Salubrious Snail MTG React | EDH Discussion](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8T7YvFs10zw/mqdefault.jpg)
I feel like for ages they didn't know what to do with simic, but now they've figured it out a little TOO well.
@@AuntSteve the most apt description so far regarding Simic
When they can dial In esper colors, I'll get excited
It’s true. My favorite 2 color pair has always been awkward and recent years the power levels have gone too high
They took the most iconic simic card (growth spiral) and decided to print that effect on a bunch of other card types
They really need to figure put selesnya, green and white should be a strong combination and yet almost every selesnya creature is a +1/1 gimmick and maybe hexproof.
Storm players when their Ruby Medallion $5 per copy investment didnt pay off
@@DerronOfCairon its even worse for nadu it went from around 20 at one point to less than 4
@martinlefebvre963 i saw last night it was 20 now it's 3.59. It's 100% getting banned.
@@josephdevita2938it went form $20 to $4 over a month not a night. Shuko is still sky-high he’s not going anywhere yet.
@@martinlefebvre963 good, card price should never be more than 10 bucks I say this as someone in this hobby since the 90s
@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus New card prices for the normal arts, absolutely. I could see some of the fancy arts and treatments going for above 10, and some older, rarer cards.
I wish they'd be just as irresponsible with Jund for commander
Korvold, take it or leave it...
Prossh; simply broken in the right decks, and there are multiple "flavors" of builds for him to be good
I wish they were a bit more irresponsible with bant
Chulane isn’t irresponsible *enough* for you?
What do you want? An overloaded Cyclonic Rift effect on ETB for 5-6 CMC, which also searches up a land during upkeep if you’re behind, gives you a 2nd land-drop per turn, and makes a Treasure w/ each Landfall Trigger?
That’s about one MH3-sized design iteration beyond Chulane, Teller of Tales.
@shawnpanzegraf5642 I wanted more irresponsibility like chulane in bant
Green proves ramp and power,
Blue provides card advantage and tempo. One of magic’s strongest combinations.
Simic is called trust fund colours for a reason. 11 years ago, Simic kinda sucked outside of legacy and commander. Then something horrible happened, prophet of kruphix was printed. It was only really a problem in commander, but it gave the wrong person a taste of the kind of power black players felt when necropotence was first printed. This led them to making more and more hideously broken cards for Simic and commander was a believable scapegoat.
Before the "I'm actually" comments start flying, this is mostly a joke.
I'm actually not up to date on meta cards, so if you're joking I can't actually tell
Umm actually? Its UMM actually, not IM actually! ☝️🤓
@@buberoini GOD FUCKING DAMN AUTO CORRECT!!!!
This is too funny for me to correct it.
Prophet of Kruphix shouldn't be banned.
@@qriist1850 I was going to go full drill Sargent on you until I realised I too was that foolish once upon a time. Leyline of anticipation and seed born muse are already really strong, but if you staple them together, like prophet of kruphix, you get something that warps the game entirely.
Ive never had faith in them balancing blue and for the past 4 yrs or so, I've lost faith in them balancing green.
What did you start playing 4 years ago 😂
Hey, it could be a lot worse
@jamescswindell5302 ive been playing since 2003
@@tylerstegman6846 Ok?
Simic needs an identity that isn't >LOTS OF LANDS >LOTS OF CARD DRAW.
Y'know, the two most powerful things you can do in any magic format.
I mean the obvious answer is flash should be their main mechanic but that's also fairly oppressive.
What about stompy and control then
@@professionalhater3929 Lean into the commonality that Blue and Green share:
They're both INCREDIBLY powerful late-game colours, and they have ways of helping get to that late game (tons of ramp for green, strong control for blue)
IMO, simic colours should be the "sea monster" colours. Massive statlines, big prices, and strong abilities.
@@sev1120 I mean, simic gets those cards, they are just a fundamentally weak archetype in high power formats, so they don't see play.
Maybe cloning/shapeshifting could be a potential identity?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I honestly believe that Nadu was a typo and it was meant to say this ability only triggers twice per turn not twice per creature per turn but WotC was too stubborn to admit they screwed up
It's that he gives each of your creatures that little text bubble. If it was instead limited to himself having that ability, it'd be less egregious because you'd have to flicker him constantly (which costs resources, and allows interaction)
The problem is Simic’s flavor is drawing cards and ramping.
Those are two of the easiest ways to break the game.
We gotta appreciate the dedication
this man gives to the tiny leaders format
I didn't even know it existed but now I'm itching to play 😂😂😂
It was really popular for a few months before the meta settled and I always had fun playing it more casually with my play group
It's an amazing format just don't play that 3 mana azorious hexproof thing that makes angels. It's a bit too strong in my experience.
I don’t play modern, but I’ve been following the Nadu situation. Seems like the easiest path is the most direct. Ban nadu and it won’t be breaking the format. One thing I’ve learned about magic players: they will find a way to break something. So why give them the opportunity.
Editing for clarity: why give them the opportunity to find a way to break nadu by simply banning shuko
Because finding new ways to break a card is fun? Though I enjoy the brewing aspect of the game and banning an enabler seems like a fun challenge.
I don't play modern either, but I am fine with them trying the Shuko ban first to see if it is the bird + Shuko that is broken or just the bird.
That being said I don't care either way.
In modern, Shuko is the only equipment which innately equips for 0
Now, splash white mana and you can now run Puresteel Paladin, which makes every equipment equip for 0 if you have 3 or more artifacts
Banning Nadu, rather than Shuko, is the wise move, because uf you ban shuko you'll just gwt the Nadu decks splashing for puresteel
@@ExodaCrownshuko isn’t the only 0 costing to target though. There’s a creature that targets for 0 whose name I can’t remember, and there’s also lightning greaves. Greaves would be slightly worst than shuko though because you can’t find it with urza’s saga. So there’s three possible things you’d have to ban to find out if it’s truly the bird or not. Sense seems to say just save the headache and ban the bird.
But like you, I agree. Having said all this, I don’t really care that much and whatever they decide to do is of no consequence to me. I just find moments like this interesting
@@dreyfus37_65 I think I know the one you are talking about. The 0 to redirect damage from it to another creature? I seen it was a 1 of in the deck. I am curious how much switching to using Greaves would affect the deck.
I was looking at the different decklists of it and while they use 1 Outrider En-Kor none use greaves or the other 0 cost to equip equipment since they usually cost 3. I think the line to draw is if you have to ban shuko and greaves before the bird becomes fair then yeah it should go. There no point in doing bans until the deck becomes unplayable.
Though it is still funny the thought of banning Shuko.
@@ExodaCrown yeah the en-Kor. I think the reason shuko took off over greaves was because it’s 1 mana so you can get it on the last chapter of urza’s saga. Also the difference between 1 mana and 2 mana is crazy. Greaves would definitely slow the deck down, hell, even things that cost 1 to target will slow the deck down, but I don’t know if it makes the deck unplayable. I’m curious to see how it all plays out though
Wizards actually do their job and balance something? INCONCEIVABLE!! 😊
Nadu has what i call
SIMIC PRIVILEGE
😂😂😂
Long live the birbs
Errata Nadu so that its ability can truly only trigger twice per turn (whenever a creature you control rather than creatures you control)
This isn't Yu-Gi-Oh. There's only been a handful of single erratas for paper MTG.
@khub5660 That would be incorrect. There are hundreds if not a couple thousand cards that no longer work the way they're printed either because of rules changes or wizards just not wording the card correctly. 2 great examples would be: the majority of lighting bolts printed and Wheel of Potential.
Even Breya, etherium shaper's originally printing doesn't work as read anymore.
nadu was designed specifically this way will full knowledge by its designers, this would set the worst precedent possible of wizards just "fixing" any card they think is too good, this isn’t arena, if a card is broken just ban it
With all due respect, if you want Alchemy, go play Alchemy.
This will not happen.
When they errata cards it's only when one entire set mechanic gets out of hand, like the Companions or when they make a mistake in the rules text.
Also if they start to errata cards willy nilly, what's stopping them from errata more cards, like Uro, Oko, Bowmaster, Ragavan, Guide of Souls etc etc.(just petty examples)... sooner instead of banning cards, they'll just Alchemy-up them all.
So, NO, do not ask for an errata and don't attempt to open Pandora's Box again.
@@WitherFang If we wanted fucking alchemy, things would get *so much worse.* Like for example, a 2 cmc card that draws three, then you can choose to draw three again if you don't like those, and you don't have a max hand size for the rest of the game. *BECAUSE BALANCE.*
Or perpetually removing all abilities from a creature, regardless of zone changes. Including on a commander.
Erratas aren't alchemy. Erratas are why companions are only mostly bullshit. Though I agree that wizards needs to be careful and selective about erratas and should just ban Nadu instead, but comparing it to alchemy is just... *eugh.*
I think you switched sides in there, lol
honestly i completely lost his train of thought when he mention grieves and then commented on how it is untutorable with saga and not being a real argument. like that is a very real argument. not having shuko means they cant tempo into a turn 3 kill off of saga going off, at best they need an entire extra turn to get all the peices together, and grieves giving shroud means you cant go off if you only have 1 creature
That bridge from below take drives me up a wall
We know damn well why hoogaak didnt get banned
Lets not repeat history, ban nadu
Tiny Leaders Reborn player here: Nadu is good, but banning it as a commander is generally a better start than outright banning it :P
@@AtheneBujard yeah most likely would not be as bs in the format if we only banned as a Commander
In trying it on leovold lands
"banned as commander" or "banned as companion" don't exist anymore. It's either banned or it isn't banned. No inbetweens
@@samnorman2307 in tiny leaders it's a thing
If Nadu was target of a spell, it'd be OK. Rotpriest doesn't even have a per-turn limit.
I don't see anyone riled up about Rotpriest which is way more toxic of a card, no pun intended... yes it was intended..
Nadu isn't even close to Rotpriest levels of borken.
Shuko does absolutely nothing on its own. It never even saw play until the bird showed up so banning it would just be stupid honestly
Banning shuko is honestly an amazing compromise. Mainly for a few reasons, it leaves the deck with greaves to fall back on. Which is 2 drop so it slows the deck down very slightly, but makes the combo piece unfindable with saga. I think the 2 mana equipment, and the no tutoring might be a decent nerf to the deck.
The issue with civic was they didn't know what to do with it for so many years and then they figured out a handful of things that it does made them do it well and then continued printing things that made it better over time. And now we've reached this like terminal point where any new summit card that has the things that simmick already does well just gets added in and breaks it more. We are at like the event horizon of simic doing the same shit all the time
"kinnan is the best thing you can do in those colors"... literally something will always be the best thing you can do in those colors lol
Kinnan is a killer in edh, no matter if the deck is a 5 a "7" or a 10. I just saw a Kinnan that's easy a 5 winning a table on the spot beacouse of how busted he is.
Honestly simic being op because they perfected the color combinations best aspects is kinda cool
Nadu is oppressive even without Shuko and lightning greaves, [coming from commander] buddy plays a Nadu Untap deck, he went 4 and 1 first time out, and that is with three other people trying to stop him with some of our best non-CEDH. the last game I heard he played was against a blue-farm and another CEDH level deck that stacked him out. mind you his deck was not build with CEDH in mind and he still almost won.
Ban the bird
I honestly can’t remember the last time I seen an Uro pile in legacy. Even he has been crept out.
Pretty sure Uro is banned in Legacy, if I’m not mistaken. (Colour me surprised, it seems he’s not)
1. Walk up to EDH Pod
2. See a simic deck
3. Exchange my deck for the most powerful non-CEDH deck I brought
We are talking about banning nadu in tiny leaders
"Uro Is busted in every format it's legal in"
Timeless players: "Uro? Never Heard of It"
Vintage players: it's not busted, just annoying...
Legacy players: They turned my lotus into an elk...
1UG is simply too good of a color cost for the second-place ramp color identity (first going to mono green). Don’t give the color combo with access to the most resources discounts.
Just give the effect a global trigger. 2/turn max regardless of targets. Crazy value, not game annihilating
We in our playgroup call it simic bullshit for over 5 years now. Let Krim fire design some control pieces for 5 years and balance the game again.
We have come a long way from Mystic Snake. And most likely gone a bit too far.
Now, would Nadu be broken if the trigger was only once instead of two times? THAT's what interests me...
As long as the win for Nadu is consistant and is a 25+ minute non determinant drudge to a convoluted combo that might not even win that turn. Then Nadu should be the card banned
I think people need to let the funny bird fly and do his thing.
I miss bridge from below. I loved playing dredge.
We know what should be done for the health of the game, and when the giant corporations inevitably makes the decision that sacrifices the heath of the game for the sake of the bottom line, we should respond in kind. Don’t let WotC get away with ruining modern from years of abusive power creep. Enough is enough.
This dude is a PRO!
They need to actually ban the problem card not the innocent bystander caught in the crossfire. If Shuko was banned instead something else would be found
The fact that no one wants to sanity check if it is Shuko or not dumb. Urzas saga is easily on par with eye of ugin as moderns most busted land. The fact is that this will happen again with another combo deck Nadu or not.
Here's a good simic card
Bubble Buddy
GB
Instant
If target creature would leave the battlefield this turn, instead exile it and return it to battlefield at the end of turn with a token copy of it with vanish 2.
I know balancing is always an issue but do we not expect simic to somehow continue to pull ahead when it’s colors do the two best things in magic. Ramp and draw cards
Honestly. If we could just ban Simic, this would solve all of the mentioned problems here.
Simic cards are not busted when they are merfolk. We are just not aloud to have things that aren’t merfolk
Simic is hard to balance. The combo does the most busted two things. Draw and land drops.
BUT let's look at Amulet. It would have been easy to just ban Amulet. However, Wizards has a policy of banning the engine piece rather than the powerful card itself. The banned Summer Bloom so should ban Shuko in this spot.
So... Do a bridge from bellow and change pretty much nothing.
Love your content dude, thanks for making me smile, it means a lot to me these days
My biggest problem with WoTC and their borderline negligence with Simic legends is from a purely commander perspective. I'll get this out of the way Nadu was a mistake but where wizards really drops the ball is not consistently putting out legends in other color combos that are at least comparable with the same frequency. I'm an Azorius mage and I can't think of a single legend that compares to Nadu or Kinnan in Azorius at a similar rate.
In fairness isn’t Kinnan like, *the* 2-color cEDH deck? I agree with what you’re trying to say but that seems like a high bar
@stephendonovan9084 kinnan isn't cedh any more than nadu, he's only better because he doesn't durdle
And they probably won't. It's good for their short-term profits, which is extremely important to Daddy hasbro
Simic has always been difficult to balance because green's advantages plus blue's advantages means every advantage. They both do card draw, they both do etb, green has mana and creatures, blue has instants and sorceries. And if they make a mediocre simic legendary, there's already plenty to choose from that ARE cracked.
Back in my day Kraj was the pinnacle of Simic commanders, then we figured out how to break Momir and it was all downhill from there…
Ban the bird!
This is like slapping a bandaid on a festering wound. Cut it off at its source. Anyone who doesn't want Nadu banned is simply coping at this point.
Okay, but Nadu lost to Merfolk who won at the NRG 5K tourney before Pro Tour, with Nadu placing fourth behind Jeskai Control. Nadu is powerful, but I think folks calling for a ban because of Pro Tour results are experiencing recency bias. Plus, banning Nadu removes the only thing checking Mono Black Necro and Boros Energy from dominating the meta.
Let them fight over Nadu, it takes the heat off my decks 😂
Hogaak decks got *better* after the Bridge banning because it made players realize it deck was better without it 😅
Shuko was 10cents or so before, it was strash. Shuko is NOT the problem I love Birds and even I think the Bird should be directly Shot.
This is a discussion that never happened. Everyone knows Nadu should be ban, we are just waiting for greed WotC do it.
Novice asking. Im guessing Shuko activates Nadu's effect every time it's equipped?
Correct. When you equip, you target a creature with the equip ability. Even crazier is you can equip it to a creature it’s already equipping to activate the effect again
Simic is truly broken out of all the duel colors in mtg
As a simic player i see this as an absolute win
The thing I hate most about Nadu? It means another 4 years (or longer) of unplayable Simic slop. I mean for real, all of the Simic cards that have come out since 2020 Simic are straight dogwater. Hell even with the exception of Nadu, a lot of the Simic cards (even in the Commander deck) are just straight snoozefests.
Though I am admittedly somewhat partial to Jyogi, since he at least has interesting synergies.
😂 GU has everything you need to play Magic, play more Magic, deny playing Magic more effectively than every other color or combination of colors.
Green has the highest amount of mana dorks while also having the highest amount of ramp spells.Green also has protection spells that grant hexproof or indestructible to stop opponents from being able to destroy your threats. Green also has access to draw engines and draw spells which can net you some card advantage. One of green's "weaknesses" is having big creatures that require a lot of mana. Which that is mitigated by its abundant access to mana ramp.
Blue has the best card advantage draw spells and counter spells. What it lacks is big creatures or big game ending spells but it makes up for it in an abundance of small spells.
The shared "weakness" of GU is their inability to deal with threats that have hit the board. This is actually untrue. They have spells like Beast Within, Pongify, Lignify, Frogify, Turn to Frog, and Kenrith's Transformation to name a few. It is just more effective to just not let the threats hit the board at all by countering every problematic action your opponent makes.
Banning shuko wouldnt Be enough probably. Maybe it would Be but i dont think it would be
Tbh nadu is starting to feel like its creeping up on kennen, like kennen objectively has a more consistent gameplan and overall kore consistency, however that same power is being spead out over complex, hard to follow, i play all the magic while you guys watch kind of gameplan.
Like sure make infinite kennen is the outlet and the enabler for winning the game and if it goes unanswered they win, i understand this and would much preffer to play against this. Campared to at the end of every players turn at the table the nadu player starts ripping thrasios triggers but not just pay mana do a thing. Its tedious and hard to keep track of too!
I now have started telling nadu players at the begging of the game, your triggers are your responsibility, if you lose track of them at any point we will all assume youve used them all because going back to check is worse than pulling fingernails out one by one.
If they ask the question did i already do this guy i say it openly, i dont know and wasnt tracking it so we will assume it has been done for the sake of boardstate, and if they have a problem with it i hit them with well we can always get you a games rule violation for failure to upkeep boardstate, if you cant even keep track of your own damn cards good golly, but time and time again now my casual night has people asking every turn did i do this guy already? I cant remeber cause every single turn i activate 6 things and i cant remember if i did it already this turn for the 5th turn in a row... like bro if you cant rememeber hit the pen less between games and we can all assume you did all the things this turn.
I have such a problem with decks that take a 4 player game and instead of winning with their power instead they slowly drain the table of any spirt they had while acruing value over the next 12 peoples turns, nadu plays 66% of the magic at a 4 player table tell me im wrong
I mean, they can safely ban Shuko, since that wouldn't harm any other deck. Shuko was absolutely irrelevant before Nadu.
Blue and green just shouldn’t have stuff. No stuff for them because it’s always a problem.
edh deck won both games it was played. 4th and 5th turn combo kill. fun.
I'm against bans of any kind, but if they're going to do a ban against nadu they just need to ban nadu
Oh no, a strong card in a release meant to define the format is *checks notes* a format defining card. How could wizards do this to us!
nadu is a big problem single handedly put modern into a teir 0 format
The sorcery speed card nah, I’m good. Get outrider and sylvan safe keeper, the instant speed activated abilities. Especially sylvan cause it makes the endurance loops way easier.
Just ban Nabu... WotC themselves made a set where they admitted 1 the power level was a bit on the hard side and that bans would come 2 that it was commander first modern price hike second.
So just ban Nabu. Nobody will be surprised when the set is already overclocked and has already bans in it....that or you ban a equipment that is years old that only effected nabu in a spefic way, until either you find a new combo tool or wotc happens to print a common that fits the bill because they forgot that 1 cost 0 equip is spefic nabu territory.
could springheart nantuko cop the ban? itd force the nadu lists to play a worse creature with scute swarm and would also cut the infinite lines so you would probably have to play thoracle. idc really what gets banned i just doubt that wizards will ban the bird immediately for “deck variety”
“Shuko is the best thing the deck has for combo pieces” Nah bro, pretty sure the best combo piece the deck has is the fucking bird #banthebird
Please let my little birby live
I'm telling y'all errata Nadu so that it doesn't work with targeted abilities and it'll be fine
If it's a three cmc simic card with a two-syllable first name, it's gonna get banned.
Ban Nadu. You could play the deck in red and run a storm card for 1 mana that could target multiple creatures too. There so many other cards that need to die to.make this live.
It also restricts design space a lot
Simic is either stone unplayable or incredibly broken, wotc can't make a fair simic deck because it'll never be as good as rakdos midrange
Isn’t their like 137 cards that can do the combo and it’s not just the almost infinite. Just a untaper that can target itself gives dumb amount of value
Modern needs to have Nadu, The Ring, and Grief banned.
Also shucko isn't the problem, nadu is. If your banning shucko because of nadu decks, then it isn't the pieces of the combo that is the problem, its the combo. The only reason shucko Even an issue is because of nadu.
I still feel like the bird just is new and people don’t know how to play against it.
I mean, even if people find enough sideboard cards it still had a lot of the problems KCI had in terms of long non deterministic combo turns.
If Simic is busted that means it IS balanced.
Then try draft because I feel like simic is almost never playable in draft lately. Throwing in the fact that I skipped modern horizons three. Lol
Uro is nowhere near as strong as Nadu, Nadu makes tour board state taller for every single creature you have on board, Nadu quite literally is almost as bad as Chulane in terms of value and even then Nadu can do it for cheaper and faster.
Been running pyrokenesis instead of bolt for the bird
Bridge was absolutely fine and solved nothing by being banned
Why don’t we ban all the cards that Nadu abuses that aren’t played in any other deck in modern? If the deck doesn’t have en-kor, or Shuko the deck has a bad curve doesn’t it not?
Why ban several cards when we can ban 1?
@@seandun7083 Just feels terrible to release a new magic card, that potentially opens a new play pattern for the format. Why not just shape the deck to do something much less annoying/degenerate? Without an efficient enabler most people will probably choose to simply not do the thing. When you consider how janky the deck truly is but is simply efficient says a lot.
well green identity is ramp and big threats and blue is draw/combo engine and been annoying so the logical evolution to simic was been busted...so Ban the f*cking bird and quit trying to balance Simic (unless is landfall, flash or Leviathans)
Don’t forget KOMA. KOMA is broken.
Ehhh I’m pretty sure they’re gonna hit Shuko and Nadu is going to plummet in win rate after that. Not 100% but pretty sure.
Kinnan isn't the best thing in simic colors in cedh anymore with Nadu in the format lol
you mentioned yugioh so lemme give you an example of this here. Crystron Halqifibrax got several other cards banned because of interactions with it, it dodged several banlists and now that its finally gone all of the other cards are legal and doing nothing.
point is, kill the bird. It's a the only way
I just dont have much hope for modern. That's why i can't bare myself to look at the format anymore
nah I'm pretty sure no one tested Ad Nauseam for the MH3 pro tour xD
Nadu is the issue.
Nothing else!
Chief I’ve been begging to TL committee to ban this freaking bird, it’ll be soon I hope
😂 Yall realize they do this shit on purpose to make money, right? They know the power of cards, that’s why these days more cards get the once per turn clause. Just give it that clause.
The reason you ban shuko is SPECIFICALLY because greaves as a win con is not tutorable with urzas saga. Why isn’t that an argument? The 1 mana difference also does make an impressionable difference in what you can and can’t play when nadu “goes off.”
Shuko in itself is a bad card. Before nadu, that was a crappy 3-4 dollar card. Hitting shuko wouldn’t affect the meta besides specifically nadu.
Also personally, I think the idea of a card that has an infinite game action built into itself is kind of crazy and begging to be broken. Greaves and shuko both saying “equip whatever, whenever, as much as you want” is wild! ,, and shuko has it coming with lands that make it so easy to tutor.
Oko and Uro could be unbanned in todays post MH2 modern meta. 😂😅
I bet they ban lightning greaves and call it a day.