@MaGicTOWer, I did. I will have eight months sober on Feb 3. Your view of alcoholism is way off. It is a disease. It can be treated. It would take me a lot of time to explain it all to you. But, you wouldn’t listen and are, therefore, not worth my time. Also, I am a doctor.
I think the question is "why do I want to drink" and that answer through the filter of scripture, determines whether you should drink or not in a given situation
piper answered this question very well. I like how he said (drinking) "it can be okay". Drinking a class a wine with dinner doesn't make us a sinner. As a believer I've personally crossed the line too many times with alcohol so i need to stay away. Try giving it up for a month to see if you're not enslaved to it. It's no different then any other thing we may struggle with.
I've recently been having problems with alcohol. I know it's not God's will for my life. But there are just times I can't seem to stop it. It's my prayer that God gives me the strength, wisdom, and peace to quit drinking alcohol. I want him to completely take the desire away from me. I want to be a better Christian. I just feel so weak and powerless. Please pray for me, as this is something that I do need to overcome. God bless. And thank you.
Prayers for you, brother. Jesus can overcome this if you chase him with all you have. fill your life with Him and let Him win the fight. Plug in as much as you can in a way that comes easy to you, for me it's watching sermons, and pray that God would fill up your desires for Him where they lack (for me it was so hard to read the bible and He has transformed that completely into a need for His word). Psalm 16 The LORD can win these battles for you, just fill yourself with HIm
I know this is 2 years after you wrote that initially... but one of my good friends had a struggle with alcohol. She was powerless over it. She was involved with a good group of ladies at church and used the life recovery workbook and she has now 4 years clean and sober. Hopefully this can be a tool to help if it is still needed
Proverbs 30 Proverbs 31(KJV) Ecclesiastes 1» Proverbs 31 King James Version (KJV) 31 The words of king Lemuel, the prophecy that his mother taught him. 2 What, my son? and what, the son of my womb? and what, the son of my vows? 3 Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings. 4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: 5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. 6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Drinking alcohol as long as you don't get drunk is okay but in my family we have a history of alcoholics so I avoid all drinks with that has the stuff in it.
I can't read all of the comments here, but any one of us who is honest can be very simple in understanding this subject: We should not do anything that takes away our ability to remember the Lord and serve him. It's very simple. That's it. Now, does that mean that you should drink or that you should not? It means neither. It is a personal exploration as much as, "Should I go to a beach with bikini-clad women or should I not?" is a personal exploration. Do you have the personal character to not lust over the women at the beach? Great, then go! Do you not? Then don't go! Also, in relation to his comment on not tripping up a recovering alcoholic: Should you take your younger brother to a bikini-clad beach or should you not? Well, how mature is he? Will he have the character not to lust after the women there? That should be considered. You know your brother, and so you should judge carefully. These are the considerations of a very serious spiritualist. I am not judging anyone who is not so serious, nor am I claiming to be so serious, but that is the fact. We can't deny facts just because they are inconvenient to us. And so, everything is individual. Judge not. It is impossible to know what others are capable of dealing with. And it is wrong by that criteria to either promote drinking as "OK for everyone" or as "bad for everyone." It is neither. Absolute considerations (meaning, it's either YES or NO, nothing in-between) do not exist in creation outside of sins like the 10 commandments that are without question. That is why the Pastor answers the question in that way. Is it better to avoid alcohol if you are able to? Maybe. Certainly it is better to be humble about it and not to think that we are indestructible or spiritually strong - we're only living by grace and the force of temptation is very strong. But then, maybe it's better for some strong persons to be an example for others who are learning how to use alcohol responsibly because - face the facts - people are going to use it one way or another. Again, in conclusion: *There is no absolute answer.* It's all about our individual honesty with God. Be thoughtful in your actions and honest with God about what you are doing. That is the answer IMHO.
The Bible doesn't speak against having a drink of wine, but it speaks against drinking to excess to get drunk. Ephesians 5:18 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled the Spirit. The Word of God tells us to be sober (1 Peter 5:8, 1 Thessalonians 5:6,1 Peter 4:7)
ChildOfGod Right you are COG! God said he made wine to gladden the heart of man Psalms 104:15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart. this also tells me why we have more heart problems cause companies have removed the nutrients from wheat to make bread.
God DOES know that overindulgence destroys lives, now matter what it is. He constantly warns us about moderation. How does the cost outweigh the benefits? Was Paul deluded when he told Timothy in 1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. I DO NOT believe Paul was telling him to get drunk or drink much! Paul spoke of wine that was alcoholic because grape juice does not soothe the stomach. I've heard the argument that "wine" in the Bible was ONLY grape juice from so many self appointed experts, but how does that definition fit in such passages as:Proverbs 20:1Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;(how does one get drunk with grape juice?) There are many other verses warning against the temptation of becoming a winebibber(wino). I do agree with you about the destruction of alcohol, my dad was an alcoholic as was my 2 younger brothers
GOOD FOR YOU! Too bad many are deceived by satan into believing alcohol makes life better. A great number take drugs to escape reality and not strong enough to live without being doped up.
yes, personal decisions, right? the alcohol didn't make them do it! Guns don't kill people. People make stupid life decisions! If you're stupid life is harder! What happened to personal responsibility?
I agree, but not to condemn others for it: Pro 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. Pro 31:7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
“exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, WINE or other FERMENTED DRINK, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice” (Duet 14:24-26)
Thanks John. Thanks for considering the many people in our culture who struggle with addiction to alcohol in your decision to drink yourself. Alcoholism has been a magor stumbling block for members of my family and has resulted in me never experiencing a really happy family event in my childhood.
As an atheist, a bartender, and someone who enjoys a nice glass of wine and whiskey, I actually agree with not drinking to drunkenness, and not drinking around alcoholics and people who are recovering alcoholics. I also don't spike drinks. I like to sit on the porch with a drink and spend all evening just sitting and enjoying just one drink as I watch the sunset, I think we as a society need a healthier relationship with alcohol
I respect John Piper. He really knows his stuff. I would agree with the statement that it's okay to drink but not okay to get drunk or to tempt somebody that struggles with it.
People need to understand that the alcohol content was very low back in the days. Beer was close to 2% and wine was less than 10%. They were capable of more and they did make a lot higher content, it wasn't for everyday purpose. Alcohol use was common because they had no water purifiers. It was even given to children,thank G-d they did. It saved maybe millions of young lives. I am proud of our tap water today, its safe and plentiful. I personally enjoy a tall glass of ice water.
Loved what was said... Our family has alcoholics on both sides of our family tree. We decided a long time ago for the sake of our children and the culture we live in that drinking wasn't something for us. The balance you spoke of is just what we told our children. That the bible doesn't expressly speak against but is it wise in view of present circumstance. Thankfully so far our children agree with us. :)
Alcohol, also known by its chemical name ethanol, is a psychoactive substance or drug that is the active ingredient in alcoholic beverages such as beer, wine, and distilled spirits (hard liquor). It is one of the oldest and most common recreational substances, causing the characteristic effects of alcohol intoxication ("drunkenness"). Among other effects, alcohol produces mood lift and euphoria, decreased anxiety, increased sociability, sedation, impairment of cognitive, memory, motor, and sensory function, and generalized depression of central nervous system function. Ethanol is a type of chemical compound known as an alcohol, and is the only type of alcohol that is found in alcoholic beverages or is commonly used for recreational purposes; other alcohols such as methanol and isopropyl alcohol are toxic. Alcohol has a variety of short-term and long-term adverse effects. Short-term adverse effects include generalized impairment of neurocognitive function, dizziness, nausea, vomiting, and hangover-like symptoms. Alcohol can be addictive to humans, as in alcoholism, and can result in dependence and withdrawal. It can have a variety of long-term adverse effects on health, for instance, liver damage, brain damage, and an increased risk of cancer. The adverse effects of alcohol on health are most important when it is used in excessive quantities or with heavy frequency. However, some of them, such as increased risk of certain cancers, may occur even with light or moderate alcohol consumption. In high amounts, alcohol may cause loss of consciousness or, in severe cases, death. Alcohol works in the brain primarily by increasing the effects of a neurotransmitter called γ-aminobutyric acid, or GABA. This is the major inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain, and by facilitating its actions, alcohol suppresses the activity of the central nervous system. The substance also directly affects a number of other neurotransmitter systems, including those of glutamate, glycine, acetylcholine, and serotonin. The pleasurable effects of alcohol ingestion are the result of increased levels of dopamine and endogenous opioids in the reward pathways of the brain. Alcohol also has toxic and unpleasant actions in the body, many of which are mediated by its byproduct acetaldehyde. Alcohol has been produced and consumed by humans for its psychoactive effects for almost 10,000 years. Alcohol consumption is generally socially acceptable and is legal in most countries of the world, unlike with most other recreational substances. However, there are often restrictions on alcohol sale and use, for instance, a minimum age for drinking, and laws against public drinking, and drinking and driving. Alcohol has considerable societal and cultural significance, and has important social roles in much of the world. Drinking establishments, such as bars and nightclubs, revolve primarily around the sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages, and parties, festivals, and social gatherings commonly feature alcohol consumption as well. Alcohol use is also related to various societal problems, including driving accidents and fatalities, accidental injuries, sexual assaults, domestic abuse, and violent crime.
Well said John and I don't drink for exactly the same reasons as you. I also found.. that when I did have a beer or a glass of wine, that it took me 3-4 days to get my 'clarity of mind' back up to 100% !! And, if you are self-employed (like I am) you can't have off days! I also find it difficult to pray if I have had anything to drink.. (I am 57 and have been a Christian for 37 years and I have not had a drink in 15 years now)
Chuck Northrop(article) The obvious answer to the question, "Did Jesus turn water into wine?" is yes. At the marriage feast in Cana of Galilee recorded in John 2:1-11, Jesus turned water into wine. However, this question does not usually ask what is meant by it. What is usually meant is "Did Jesus make intoxicating wine?" And the answer is no. Let me explain. The word translated "wine" in English ( in Koine‚ Greek) can refer to either alcoholic or non-alcoholic wine. At present, the term "wine" is almost used exclusively of alcoholic wine, but let us never be guilty of interpretation based solely upon modern day definitions. Consider these examples of the word "wine" being used in Scripture with reference to unfermented grape juice. Joel 1:10 says "The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted: the new wine is dried up, the oil languisheth." (This refers to grapes dried up in the fields, which could not be intoxicating.) Isaiah 65:8 says "Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all." (Alcoholic wine in the cluster? No, the juice of the grape while in the cluster could not be intoxicating.) Jeremiah 48:33 says "And joy and gladness is taken from the plentiful field, and from the land of Moab; and I have caused wine to fail from the winepresses: none shall tread with shouting; their shouting shall be no shouting." (The wine of fresh squeezed grapes coming out of the winepress is grape juice and could not be fermented.) Certainly other passages could be considered, but these are sufficient to illustrate that the word "wine" can refer to alcoholic wine or simply grape juice. "So, how do we know when it refers to grape juice or intoxicating wine?" The context in which the word is found will determine whether it refers to alcoholic or non- alcoholic wine. So, consider the context. The immediate context of John 2:1-11 is quite clear. The guests at the marriage feast of Cana were able to discern between the quality of the drink that the Lord had made and that which had already been served. If intoxicating wine had been served, and people "well drunk" or "drunk freely" (American Standard Version,1901) of it (verse 10), then they would not have had such keen discernment. Though the amount is not specified as to what they had previously drunk, if they consumed the six waterpots that Jesus had the servants fill with water and which contained "two or three firkins apiece" (verse 6), then they would have consumed somewhere between 106 to 162 gallons of booze! This is far more than enough to make the most casual drinker drunk. Those who twist this account to condone social drinking say the term "well drunk" refers to the idea that the crowd was so drunk that they could not distinguish. However, the point of "the governor of the feast" to the bridegroom is that the guests were able to discern between the "worse" and the "good wine." If it is the case that these wedding guests were so drunk that they could not distinguish, then the Lord made the six pots of alcoholic beverage for those who were already strongly under the influence, and caused them to be even more drunk! Thus, the "good wine" of the wedding feast of Canaan must have been the fresh juice of the grape. Also, consider the logical consequence of those who want to use this passage to justify the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Their argument goes something like this: "Since Jesus produced alcoholic wine, then it is morally right for a person to drink it." However, notice that their logic takes them further than most of them want to go. Since Jesus produced alcoholic wine (as they claim), then not only would it be morally right to drink it, it would be morally right to produce it, sell it, distribute it, and make a living from it. But since that would most certainly cause someone to stumble, then it must be morally right to cause someone to stumble. However, the logical consequence of their argument would oppose the Lord's teaching (Luke 17:1-2). No, the reasoning is a foolish argument that has no foundation in scripture. Further, consider the general context of the Bible. Habakkuk wrote, "Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!" (2:15). The sin Habakkuk is rebuking is the sin of contributing to drunkenness. If Jesus supplied intoxicating wine to the wedding guests at Cana, then He contributed to their intoxication. Not only did Jesus contribute to it, He, also, condoned and encouraged people to get completely soused! Since intoxication is sinful, then Jesus sinned, and the "woe" of Habakkuk would be upon Him. If this be the case, then it would be better for Jesus "that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea" (Luke 17:2). As a perfect man, Jesus could not have turned water into alcoholic wine and offer such to others. Another passage to consider in this context is Proverbs 23:31-32, which says, "Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder." If Jesus had turned water into intoxicating wine, then He would have caused others to look upon the wine when it is red opposing the wisdom of Solomon. Since, Jesus is "greater than Solomon" (Matthew 12:42), He would know the wisdom of sobriety and would not tempt others with an intoxicating beverage. Again, Solomon wrote, "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise" (Proverbs 20:1). "What, then, was the miracle of the wedding feast in Cana?" The miracle of Cana was that Jesus surpassed or transcended the normal amount of time and the natural process that it takes to produce and harvest grape juice. That, which normally takes months, took Jesus but a moment. Augustine wrote, "For he on that marriage-day made wine in the six jars which he ordered to be filled with water he who now makes it every year in the vines; for, as what the servants had poured into the water- jars was turned into wine by the power of the Lord, so, also, that which the clouds pour fourth is turned into wine by the power of the self-same Lord." (As quoted in "Bible Wines" by William Patton, page 91.) "How could this be? Did they have any methods of preservation of grape juice in the first century?" Yes. In fact, they had several methods. In the book "Bible Wines," the author, William Patton, discusses four methods that the ancients used for the preservation of grape juice. One such method is to keep air completely excluded a method often used today. R. C. Foster in his book, "Studies in the Life of Christ," said, "A Greek wine ship of the second century B.C. found by divers off the southern coast of France several years ago contained a great number of wine flasks that had been sealed so tight that after more than 2,000 years the sea water had not seeped into them." With close examination, we must conclude that the Lord did not make intoxicating wine at the marriage feast in Cana of Galilee. "Did Jesus turn water into wine?" Yes. "Did Jesus turn water into intoxicating wine?" Absolutely Not! Alcohol has caused and/or contributed to broken homes, every kind of accident imaginable, disease both physical and mental, poverty, and crimes of every kind. Since its effect is such, it is beyond my own imagination why anyone would ever want to justify its use let alone mar the Lord's perfect example with its production and distribution. Its use is not social in any way but is in every way antisocial. Its defense by sweet-talking, soft- pedaling, so-called preachers is religiously hypocritical, morally irresponsible, and socially despicable. It has victimized the unborn, children, teenagers, the middle aged, and the old. It has victimized business people and laborers, country folks and city folks, the rich and the poor. There is probably not one person who has not felt its evil bite and its viperous sting! It is beyond my reasoning power to understand how people who claim to be spiritually minded and morally upright will rationalize its use. Blood has filled our streets because of this vile beverage. Graves have filled our hills and vales because of this evil drink. Reproach has filled our nation because of this wicked intoxicant. Corruption has filled our society because of this corrupted liquor. Shame and disgrace has filled our homes because of this malicious booze. Rather than justifying its use, let us stand diametrically opposed to it for "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."
Thank you so much. So well-said. Incidentally, the past couple of days, I've been listening to a CD I've had for a long time, "When I Don't Desire God." I've known Him for nearly 37 years, but various life circumstances have put me in this place. Your encouragement on the CD has been wonderful. Thank you so much!
He is definitely correct on this one. Why do any of us HAVE to drink? Reasons? To Enjoy? To take your pain away? If that is, then it shows that you aren't enjoying your life. When we are completely content with God, we don't need alcohol to be happy. I go out. I dance. I have fun. I don't drink but my friends LOVE ME. I have so much fun & I love my life! I find the true peace in my heart when I read the Bible.
I like how John gets himself down to the level where everyone is (not to say all pastors do that) It's nice that he lets us see that the fight against sin is won with God
Amen. In this society drinking destroys so many lives. How could any moral person, much less a born-again Christian dare drink, knowing that people are watching, and you might cause them to fall. There blood is on your hands.
Alcoholism is the issue. It is a disease that kills millions annually, A strong respected Christian who takes a drink would influence sober alcoholics to drink. Its the nature of the beast.You have to understand alcoholism. It is a life and death daily struggle.
You can say that about anything, I shouldn't kiss my wife in public, because that might cause a single person or a recovering sex addict to stumble into fornication. It's such a crap argument, used to mask extra Biblical legalism. God made wine to make merry the heart of man...at least that's what my Bible says. You are holier than God.
Lol I like that verse...one man esteems one day above another another esteems everyday alike let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind...that's a good verse...
It is a sin to drink to drunkeness, especially if it is a pattern. A person without addiction problems who drinks beer or wine or cocktails in moderation, and not around brothers or sisters whom he knows to be alcoholic, commits no sin. I appreciate Piper's sensitivity on this matter, but his answer could have been just that simple.
Some say that alcohol consumption today is a sin for believers. One argument that is used is that the alcohol from Bible times contained a much smaller percentage of alcohol than alcoholic beverages of today, and therefore, it was fine for the Jews to consume it but not for us today. This argument has a major flaw when the definition of sin is understood. We know that sin is anything that goes against God. We should not be doing anything that goes against Him. But, if this is true, than an assumption has to be made. We must assume that it is okay for Christians to sin a little bit (consume smaller percentages of alcohol), but not a lot (large amounts of alcohol in modern drinks). Of course, this is nowhere in Scripture, and in fact the opposite is true. Jesus said, "If you love me, you will obey my commandments." This is an absolute statement that is later supported by another statement Jesus makes when speaking to the churches in Revelation 3:16, "But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth." Further, if you read the account of the kings of Judah from 1 & 2 Kings and 1 & 2 Chronicles, you will see that the author repeatedly writes, "King X followed God, but not as his father David did, for he kept the high places" (high places being the alternative areas of worship that were forbidden after the Temple was constructed). The author acknowledges that the kings were godly, but they had character flaws that were obviously an issue worth noting. So, the point is that we are called to follow God 100% of the time. If alcohol consumption is a sin, any percentage of it would be wrong for Christians to consume, and this would then mean that Jesus and other characters in the Scriptures sinned. Because Jesus was without sin, we cannot conclude that alcohol consumption is a sin by this argument.
I don't know if wine was weaker then, it certainly got Lot drunk enough to do the nasty with his daughters! New wine a term given to un-fermented (e.g. grape juice), so I'd assume communion was red grape juice. I'm not sure about the Israelites drinking alcohol unless it was another 'your hearts were hard' provision like the certificate of divorce. As long as it doesn't rule out Tiramisu and Christmas cake I'm fine.
Tim Lewis Well, it does say in Psalms 104 that God brings forth "wine to gladden the human heart," so it seems logical to conclude (especially in the context of the many other verses in Scripture), that drinking wine is fine. As a side note, I don't understand why wine is given special treatment. Proverbs speaks out against gluttony, so why don't Christians oppose unhealthy foods?
New wine gladdens the heart, but the wine of Sodom (alcohol) is a depressant. 31Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Proverbs 23
I love John Piper. Great bible teacher, but that has to be one of the most unclear, and muddiest answers I've ever seen given to this question. It's almost as if he was afraid to say what needed to be said as not to offend someone. Which is. Complete abstinence.
mopar Mike How very Baptist of you. Reminds me of when Jesus approached Nathaniel," Behold an Israelite in whom there is no guile" Think REAL hard about Jesus first miracle and don't give the Baptist answer that it was really just grape-juice. The "sin" is in the person's relationship to alcohol. If it is an idol or anything they have let take hold in their lives than yes, it is sin. But people idolize many things. Some people idolize their marriage, their children, their jobs. Some people even idolize their own self-righteousness.
ROCKLIKEACOBB I couldn't agree more. The sin is in the relationship with alcohol. And when I am an influential individual and my moderate consumption of alcohol ( Relationship) causes a brother to stumble, I have in fact sinned.
Wait. What. you had me until the end where you said the opposite of what is true and what the bible says. Which is conviction. God desires our heart, not our ability to adhere to laws. It's exactly what he said to the pharisees. Drunkenness is what we are warned about.
JBC *_" Wait. What. you had me until the end where you said the opposite of what is true and what the bible says. Which is conviction"_* If I'm saying the opposite of what the bible says, please provide the bible verses. *_" God desires our heart, not our ability to adhere to laws "_* The bible says if we love God we will obey his commands *John **14:15** New American Standard Bible* *15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."* *_" It's exactly what he said to the pharisees."_* He said nothing of the sort to the Pharisees. His problem with the Pharisees wasn't with the law or some of the rules they were trying to keep, but with their hypocrisy and trying to gain righteousness through them. See here below. Christ himself admonished the people to follow the law & some of the rules of the Pharisees but he told them not to do as they did. Because they were hypocrites. *Matthew 23:3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)* *_3 therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them._* *_" Drunkenness is what we are warned about."_* Not just drunkenness alone.We're warned to not even look upon the wine when it is fermented and to do nothing to cause our brother to stumble. It is only the lukewarm, liberal, and modern Church that teaches the canard that alcohol is fine in moderation. *Proverbs **23:31** New American Standard Bible (NASB)* *31 Do not look on the wine when it is red, When it sparkles in the cup,When it goes down smoothly* *Romans **14:21** New American Standard Bible (NASB)* *21 It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles*
mopar Mike he made it pretty clear its ok to drink but not get drunk and unless ur gonna be a stumbling block 2 soem1else who might have struggled with alchohol or struggles, hes pretty much sayin tho its better not 2 drink but not because its a sin but just because of wat it can lead 2
Some of you need to repent! Even the way you write shows how far you are from being Christians. With that said: No drinking is not a sin. Yes getting drunk is a sin. To Christians: If this subject causes you to anger against each other than you love drinking more than you love your brother. And if you having a glass of wine offends your brother than abstain from drinking!!!! Your love for your brother should have a stronger hold on you than wine or beer. I am not speaking lightly here. I enjoy red wine and wine culture. Before I was born again I was a bartender and I enjoyed mixing drinks very much. So I know the power of drinking and its effects on people. I also know that not many people are able to control themselves and have just one beer or one glass of wine. You always search for that buzz. Lets be honest!!!! Don't fool yourselves. We can drink, but is it edifying?Is it necessary to the point that you rather loose your brother (a redeemed soul, image of Christ) just so you can have your glass of wine? It is my humble opinion folks that if we do drink a glass of wine, we dont do flaunt it in front of our brothers who dont drink and we dont have open discussions about drinking with people. Keep it to yourself. And further more you can ask the Lord if He wants you to stop drinking. Not everything that is permitted brings glory to God. Do all things to the Glory of God.
Drinking is a very slippery slope. You have to be keenly aware of your limitations with alcohol. As a someone who recently turned 21, I was not aware of my limitations my first time drinking and as a result, I got drunk. I still have nothing against a little bit of alcohol to wind down the day with; however, I now am greatly aware of what my personal limitations are.
Hear ye people what saith the Lord regarding this subject; "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." Proverbs 20:1 I'll take what the Lord says over this man's opinion.
Donald Godin This counsel was given to the people at a time when they were yet wandering. The Lord said, "Thou shalt surely tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bring forth year by year, and thou shalt eat it before the LORD thy God, in the place which He shall chose to place His name there (Deut 14:22-23) This counsel in particular applied to those who lived a long distance from the sanctuary, (verse 24) They were to take there increase (produce, livestock etc.,) and sell it for money (verse 25) Then when they came near the tabernacle they were to buy with the tithe money whatever they desired to offer to the Lord (verse 26) Notice verse 3 prohibiting the eating of anything "abominable". So the phrase "whatsoever thy soul lusteth after" had it's limitations. As pertaining to the strong drink, there were specific instructions what should be done with it. So "whatsover thy soul lusteth after" is not a license to drink. But the believer was not to drink the wine or strong drink. The command was "and the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the Holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering (Num 28:7)
You assume that all wine is alcoholic. Grape juice is also called new wine. Jesus wouldn't create alcoholic wine at a party after a bunch of people were supposed already drunk as some people want to believe. "So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine."
Let alone 500 gallons of it! . 1Timothy which lays down the criteria for Bishops and Deacons forbids Bishops from consuming alcoholic wine altogether, so why would Christ drink it?...
The history of grapes shows that they made non-alcoholic wine, and it was considered the best wine. Pliny lived from AD 24-79. He said, "For all sick, wine is most useful when its forces have been broken by strainer.” Protropos is "must which flows spontaneously from grapes.” Horace died just ten years before Jesus was born. He says of some wine: “you can drink 100 glasses without fear of intoxication” Aristotle lived from 384-322 BC. He refers to a sweet grape beverage that “though called wine, it has not the effect of wine, for it does not taste like wine and not intoxicate like ordinary wine.” Athenaeus, the Grammarian, at about 200 AD, recommended non-alcoholic wine or grape juice for stomach trouble: “Let him take sweet wine, mixed with water or warmed, especially that kind called protropos... effeminatum …as being good for the stomach; for sweet wine does not make the head heavy.” The people of the time of Jesus disagree with you. They say that wine can be non-alcoholic. Jacob drank the pure blood of the grape which could mean it was boiled; this is contrasted to the wine of Sodom which is poisonous (alcoholic). Deut 32:14,32 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. Prov. 23:31(alcoholic wine) Jesus drank the fruit of the vine, and we will drink it "new" not "old" alcoholic wine.And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom. Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: Isaiah 65:8 Presses break out with "new wine" not alcoholic wine Prov 3:10 You can't drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils. 1 Cor. 10:21
Joe Monroe You made that up. It doesn't say Jesus made grape juice. Some of y'all are annoying because you just make the Bible say what you want it to say.
I see this is an old post but felt I wanted to share…as my sons got older, ….20-25, I thought through this plenty. I have 3 rules concerning this: 1). Don’t be mastered by anything, 2). Don’t make your brother stumble and 3). Don’t ignore your conscience. My “adult “ sons haven’t had any issues. We’ve been blessed in this area.
Alcohol and other mind-altering substances which poison the human body and cloud the judgment have destroyed more relationships and lives than many wars. "Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise." Proverbs 20:1 "Don’t be drunk with wine, because that will ruin your life. Instead, be filled with the Holy Spirit." Ephesians 5:18 #SobrietyIsTheOnlyWayToLive
Proverbs 30 Proverbs 31(KJV) Ecclesiastes 1» Proverbs 31 King James Version (KJV) 31 The words of king Lemuel, the prophecy that his mother taught him. 2 What, my son? and what, the son of my womb? and what, the son of my vows? 3 Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings. 4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: 5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. 6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Always be ready to share the Word! Christians can’t share it well with Booze on breath. Be wise, it is 2018, we do not need it! Holy Ghost fill the church! ☝️
I support what this man says. He stays humble in saying that there is no complete answer that says that wine is wrong. Though he makes the statement, he follows up with what is a great conviction about his influence on his family and future generations of his family. It is not a judgment but a choice.
Sometimes I do use it for escapism but I feel actually closer to God when I drink wine and music and conversation seems enhanced in a spiritual way. It does not feel like a sin more of a communion but perhaps I should not over indulge because I feel drunk with God. Also it is harder on my physical body than when I was younger.
Well said Pastor! I deal with this on two cultural standpoints - Asian and American. I like to phrase the use of alcohol as "credibility." If you are to be credible, you must be observant as to how your "choice" contributes to the domino effect. Blessings.
That was totally fabulous and very well supported with great explicit examples. Thank you John Piper....for I am a teacher of high school students that chosen to desire God and get lots of questions just like this.
Rely on the Holy Spirit to guide you in everything.... even in drinking. His convictions will manifest in you and tell you if it is right or wrong. I think we know His answer, but reliance on Him is the most important thing in this life. He will never lead us astray and will always do what is best for God's glory. Amen.
When I did not know Christ Jesus as my Savior in my Navy days I used to drink to drunkenness quite often for a while. After God granted me repentance of my sins and saving-faith in Jesus Christ I found myself struggling to know if any consumption of alcohol was sinful. I have gone from total abstinence for years, then I might have 1 small beer on rare occasions. I am thankful that God did protect me from being addicted to alcohol. The only real addiction I have that I struggle with is dipping tobacco. I literally hate drunkenness and that is why as a believer in Christ I only rarely drink one small beer on rare occasions with a meal. That being said, I am still trying to study God's Word and seeking Godly information to see if even the occasional beer might be sinful. If it is I definitely don't want to drink at all, but I do find it confusing with all the different viewpoints by different Christian teachings. Some say the one beer on rare occasions is not sinful, but then others say it is sinful to ever drink any alcohol period. It is very confusing. I even came across one guy who said he refused to use cough medicine if it had alcohol in it. I want to have peace with God about whether it is sinful or not to drink alcohol in any quantity. I definitely don't want to sin deliberately that is for certain. I liked what brother Piper had to say and it helps some toward getting clarity on the subject.
Alcohol by itself is not a sin. Coffee by itself is not a sin Tobacco by itself is not a sin Marijuana by itself is not a sin Big Mac by itself is not a sin but when it becomes a every day ritual where in the morning you need a cup of coffee, every noon you need to a cigarette, in the evening you need a shot of ciroq, and before bed you need to smoke a joint as your eating your big mac, EVERY DAY. it becomes a sin. If it masters you, it becomes a sin. The physical addictiveness in caffeine, tobacco, and alcohol where you start withdrawaling, is when it gets bad.
But of course when you put petrol and fire near and play with it and tell it's okay to play with it once in a month of course it harms one day when you drink alcohol once it is having more chance that you can do another sins also Because when you are you are in control of your mind
The sin is not drinking alcohol. The sin is "not being able to handle your liqour". Know your limit. Yield not to temptation. You'll be fine. God bless! ☺
No offense but this comment is pretty naive. Clearly you haven't met any real alcoholics. Alcoholism goes a bit far beyond 'holding your drink' or 'knowing your limit', and I pray you've never given this advice to anyone actually afflicted by it. Optimism ain't gonna help when the demons come rushing in. For people who have ever drunk to the point of ruining some aspect of their life, minor or major, yes alcohol is a sin to be avoided completely. If every time you drink you anticipate feeling a buzz, then absolutely yes, drinking is a sin. By the time you start to feel altered by alcohol, usually 2 or 3 drinks in, you've already incurred some brain damage. The Bible says your body is a temple, as well as many other things that speak against even a buzz in this sense. Don't fool yourselves just because it's legal and because of family traditions and what your friends do. Those are the ways of this world. For one who seeks God, 8 times out of 10 I'm pretty sure alcohol is a no.
all hes saying is that alcohol isn't a sin but he was trying to tell the person to be careful because you might find yourself in a position where you might need to repent..especially in this culture because its usually abused...
I like the way His Holiness Pope Shenouda III answered the question about "is it OK for a Christian to drink alcohol'? He said: "You have the Holy Spirit in you. Why do you need alcohol? No! Stay away from alcohol, tobacco and drugs". Protestants seem to require tender, lengthy explanations to simple "no" answers. Why is that?
I'm very close to God when I'm sober but I am closer to God when I drink. It makes me think more about God and Jesus. It takes me into my soul. It helps put life into perspective. Sorry but If you think that that is a sin, then you need a reality check. Judge me if you want too, but remember that's a sin as well.
This is an issue that has confused many people. On one hand, we are commanded by the Lord Jesus, “Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1). On the other hand, the Bible also exhorts us to beware of evildoers and false prophets and to avoid those who practice all kinds of evil. How are we to discern who these people are if we do not make some kind of judgment about them? There is a righteous kind of judgment we are supposed to exercise with careful discernment (John 7:24). When Jesus told us not to judge (Matthew 7:1), He was telling us not to judge hypocritically. Matthew 7:2-5 declares, "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. What Jesus was condemning here was hypocritical, self-righteous judgments of others. In Matthew 7:2-5, Jesus warns against judging someone else for his sin when you yourself are sinning even worse. That is the kind of judging Jesus commanded us not to do. If a believer sees another believer sinning, it is his Christian duty to lovingly and respectfully confront the person with his sin (Matthew 18:15-17). This is not judging, but rather pointing out the truth in hope and with the ultimate goal of bringing repentance in the other person (James 5:20) and restoration to the fellowship. 2 Timothy 4:2 instructs us, "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage with great patience and careful instruction." We are to "judge" sin, but always with the goal of presenting the solution for sin and its consequences the Lord Jesus Christ.
What it means by judge is to take revenge on someone and invent your own punishments for them, rather than pointing out when they are in a sin, which is a responsible thing to do between christians.
Responsible thing? No one has the right to tell someone there going to hell besides God. Maybe if we would stop rushing to conclusions and address the problem at hand, people struggling with sin would be more prosperous. By judging someone your scaring them, which may help some individuals but it also may drive people away from God. Spread his word, his glory. Not just his punishments.
I know your response wasn't to my answer, but I would like to try to answer it. I don't in any way want to be disrespectful to you, but one does have the right to tell someone they're going to hell besides God. Wether according to God or the US constitution. Offensive speech is not crime, in this case to either parties. Jesus spoke about hell more than he did almost any other subject, (Mark 16:15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. In fact preaching what Jesus said as well as living it was a commandment. And that is where I see your point. I think you, and I as well recognize the fake, hypocritical, lukewarm and non profound Christians. I think a lot of the times Christians don't recognize this, and it's very much our nature. I believe the best way to witness is through your actions and the way you live your life, people will see the diffence in you and ask you why. And a lot of Christians don't want to live it, they want to talk it, do as I say not as I do kind of thing. They are self righteous, and sometimes harsh, not realizing that they too are just a sinner saved by grace.
I don't mean to condemn or hurt anyone but I gotta say this: Not being able to overcome the peer pressure or the temptation of drinking shows your weakness to our enemy. God has already given us SO MANY WAYS TO BE JOYFUL; AND THE BEST WAY IS TO HAVE A GREAT RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM. I pray that we all find the true happiness in Jesus Christ alone.
Does Jesus produce the wine in the liquor stores? No, of course not. Thus, the stuff made from man will toxify the mind and body, rob one of money, and prohibit one from presenting his or her body a living sacrifice holy and acceptable (Romans 12:1), amongst other things. If one wants to relax, he or she can worship God, have a drink of water, and hear from Holy Spirit clearly. Christ gives peace and joy, alcohol gives addiction and toxicity to bodily organs including the brain. Wine from man can NEVER be compared to wine from Christ.
Erm...so why did Christ turn the water into wine and not some other invigorating elixir? And don't all things come from God, even wine from Walmart? You're putting your own spin on the Bible - supreme arrogance on your part. You need to learn a little humility: you are neither God nor Christ.
Proverbs 30 Proverbs 31(KJV) Ecclesiastes 1» Proverbs 31 King James Version (KJV) 31 The words of king Lemuel, the prophecy that his mother taught him. 2 What, my son? and what, the son of my womb? and what, the son of my vows? 3 Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings. 4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: 5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted. 6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts. 7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. nuff said...... Amen.
Drinking today and drinking in the Bible are two very different drinkings. In biblical Israel, wine was much less alcoholic than even our lite beers today. In fact, our beer is about 5 to 10 times more alcoholic than the wine that Jesus drank. Furthermore, the reason Israelites drank wine was much different than we drink wine today. They drank wine because it was cleaner than water. That's much different than our pleasure drinking. Even when they did drink wine for festivities, they had a very limited supply since wine was a luxury. That's much different than our cheap, infinitely available alcohol. Lastly, if you say it's ok to drink alcohol socially, even though it hinders your mental capabilities, why not be able to smoke pot? They both, in essence, do the same thing to your body, so why not? Our mentality should not be, "What can I get away with?" but instead should be, "What can I do to serve my Lord today?" I'm sorry, but drinking alcohol for leisure doesn't seem like a correct answer to that question.
Donald Godin Wine during the first century was a fraction as alcoholic as even our lite beers today. The reason for drinking was completely different since it purified dirty water. The amount drunk was much less since there was a limited amount. It was never just a "get loose" drink. Our alcohol, however, is much more alcoholic, drunk for pleasure, is available in infinite quantities, and is a "get loose" drink. There's no good reason to drink alcohol today. Everyone is just looking for a reason to indulge in something they want, so they use the Bible as an excuse. A good general rule is this: if you have to look for justification to do something, you probably shouldn't be doing it. Yes, overindulgence in food is a sin. Paul's circumstances were much different than ours. The Bible is the source of all truth since it is written by the Holy Spirit. That's His word to us. There's no other source of truth since He doesn't audibly tell us truth. Very true.
***** It would take more wine to get drunk, true. The wine was still alcoholic, so it would still cause people to become intoxicated. It would just take more than the couple beers like today since the amount of alcohol was less. Drunkenness was addressed because people would get drunk at weddings all the time. Jesus' miracle of turning the water into wine shows this. This also reinforces a fundamental difference between Jesus' time and our time. Their supply was very finite. Today, we can buy however much we want. So, it's more alcoholic and unlimited, which are very convincing reasons to not drink. You don't know what was so good about Jesus' wine. For all you know, He could've made wine that was aged and didn't have any of the imperfections/harsh tastes that come with recently made alcohol, which would've been the kind of alcohol in that day. To say that it had to be more alcoholic is an assumption. We all know it's a sin to get drunk. We also know that giving alcohol to a person who has a problem with drinking/gets drunk a lot is a sin. Jesus didn't sin, obviously. This means that no one at that party had a problem with drunkenness. Never have I said that drinking alcohol is a sin. My point is that it makes no sense to drink today. It's much more alcoholic, it is unlimited, and it is not necessary for health purposes like it was in the first century. Drinking to loosen up and being more fun is not what the Bible condones.
***** John MacArthur did a sermon on alcohol and how it's not necessary and unwise today. He explained how alcohol back then was either boiled, which removed alcohol completely, or it was mixed with lots of water or milk, making its alcohol content lower than our average. It wasn't essentially grape juice, but it wasn't as alcoholic as our beers today. Also, you seem to assume that you have to be roaring drunk in order to be sinning. Having your mind even slightly altered is a sin. Even the slightest buzz that makes you even the slightest bit not sober is a sin. It doesn't take much to do that to the human body. We are to be of sound mind. Anything else is wrong. I'll reiterate another main point. They needed slightly alcoholic water in order to survive. Alcohol purified their dirty water. We don't need that anymore. My answer is why? There are zero reasons to drink. There are many reasons not to. You could get drunk. You could get addicted. You could cause someone else who struggles with alcoholism to drink. You damage your liver. You kill brain cells. The list goes on and on. There is no reason for a Christian to drink other than for pleasure/the buzz. That's a worldly desire.
***** It's not grape juice. It's less alcoholic alcohol. If there's some alcohol in it, which there was in first century wine, you can become mentally impaired by it. Given the resiliency of the human body, or lack thereof, that can be done quite easily, even with less alcoholic drinks. Especially when all of the water was slightly alcoholic in order to protect against bacteria. If you agree that we shouldn't drink, why do you defend it so much?
***** Here's a link to John MacArhur's entire sermon on the topic: www.gty.org/resources/sermons/80-380/christians-and-alcohol There is no real justification for drinking alcohol today since we have no reason to.
All of these videos are fantastic sir! Love the open-mindedness and wisdom to be real and not make lofty religious bans of different things. Your wisdom shines through. Keep doing what you do.
Drinking is fine BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT dont drink every freaking day and abuse it, ya know party up drink 1 or twice on the weekend get wasted get laid wat ever AND THAT IT. Give time for ur liver to recover.
That said if I know that my drinking is going to offend someone but I do it anyway then it is because of self that I do it and then it becomes a sin. I have family members who condemn me to hell for drinking a glass of wine yet they spend a great deal of time gossiping and tearing others down. Sin is sin and that is where our battle is. As Paul said, anything not done in Faith is sin.
This is the most ridiculous argument I have ever seen. The bible even contradicts itself there if you find a passage that condemns drinking and being drunk. At the marriage in Cana of Galilee Jesus doesn't do anything to stop people from drinking and getting drunk, on the contrary. When the guests are already drunk he turns water into more wine because they had run out. Alcohol was part of it and he doesn't condemn it, he condones it. John 2:10 "And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now." Apart from that I am certain he will have had wine at the passover seder that is now being called the last supper. And there's nothing wrong with that either... actually it is pretty normal. Wine is a big part in Jewish culture to this day, so why wouldn't he have wine and allow people to get drunk when they celebrate?
Christianity condemns addiction of any sort. Addictions will take away humans from giving glory to God to the Wordly things and will destroy their life eventually. Jesus knows that and that is why he asks the believer to flea from all kind of addiction. Alcohol is addictive.
cupido4amor*flee Food is addictive. How many people are addicted to eating? How many people are addicted to sugar? Anything can be an addiction. There are people who are addicted to eating dryer sheets ffs.
cupido4amor Christ made approximately 150 gallons of wine at Cana. 150 GALLONS!!! Deuteronomy 14:26 and spend the money for whatever you desire-oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.
CanadianOrth 1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
Grace filled self control and gratitude, not abstinence for the fear of addiction, keeps us from from being brought under the power of things. There is no command to abstain in scripture. Notice not only wine, but "strong drink" are to be rejoiced in, before the face of God.
A very interesting book that has helped me decide to be tea total is 'Wine in the Bible and the scriptural case for total abstinence' by Leighton G Campbell. In it he uses the Bible to promote abstinence. Good, solid, scriptural advice. Reading it uncovered a massive amount of references to wine, both fermented and unfermented, and it really helps outline God's desires for his people. It's all completely from the Bible - so it's hard to ague with :)
You have very good points, it's true, drinking is not a sin. Getting drunk however, is spoken against in the bible. Eph 5:18 And "do not be drunk with wine," in which is debauchery, but be filled by the Spirit, Rom 14:21 It is good not to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything by which your brother stumbles, or is offended, or is weak. We certainly have the liberty to drink, but we should do it in moderation and considering others who may be weak in that area.
I think of it like this: It's like the entire chapter of Romans 14. For some people, it is a sin to eat or drink certain things because their faith may be weak and it may prick their consciences. It is also a sin for someone else to eat or drink those things in the presence of the brother/sister who has a weak faith, knowing it may cause them to stumble. But for some people, it is not a sin to eat or drink certain things.
I guess a more realistic question (or follow up question) is "how far is OK?" This is on the individual side, not the influencing others side. Is getting the slightest buzz from alcohol wrong because it is now a substance that has some control over your mind and body? Does "drunk" mean "just a little drunk" or "can't stand up anymore drunk"? Personally my conviction is to go to Psalm 119:3-4 that says "don't compromise with evil" and "keep God's commandments carefully". What do you all think?
Because we love them, we try to help them avoid such issues together. I may be ok, but our neighbor may not be ok. O, how much impact Christians can have when we gather we try our best to pray together, to praise God together, to share our God together, to just love one another, to work towards His Kingdom, OUR Kingdom together most of our time when we are together, doing everything for the glory of God! God bless you with all my heart for your passion for God!
I think Paul summed it up in Rom 14:1-6. It's a different choice for every one of us, but the bottom line is doing everything from a heart posture of honor and thanksgiving to God. Drinking wine can be done in honor of the Lord. With all it's intricacies and subtleties, enjoying a good wine can be as God-honoring as admiring the sunset, or an awe inspiring lightning storm from your porch. Both can kill you if you're not careful. Both can liven our hearts to the beauty of our creator.
Being a child of an alcoholic I can say that alcohol does nothing good at all. All alcoholics become alcoholics by saying "I can control myself, I will never let it control me" but more importantly, if you're Christian you already know what alcohol does and that it's better to not drink it.
Jesus drank wine, which is alcohol. If you abuse alcohol, then its bad. But you can say that about just about anything. If you abuse eating, its bad. If you abuse sex, its bad. Does that mean we should all stop having sex and eating? No, we'd cease to exist. Moderation is important in a lot of things. Alcohol included. Ecclesiastes 9:7 "So go ahead. Eat your food with joy, and drink your wine with a happy heart, for God approves of this!"
I don't think Christians should, neither does the Bible allow for, drinking alcohol. It is true that the word "wine" is used to mean grape juice or alcoholic wine in the Bible. That is why you never find the phrase "grape juice" in the Bible. But the context is what determines it. I don't think Jesus made alcoholic wine at the wedding feast, because in order for grape juice to become alcoholic it needs time to ferment; and the wine Jesus made was consumed right away. Moreover, notice the Bible specifically pronounces a blessing on wine that is found "in the cluster": "Thus saith the Lord, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all." - Isaiah 65:8 If it's in the cluster, it hasn't been squeezed out and fermented to make alcohol. This is talking about grape juice. It is grape juice that the Bible pronounces a blessing on. Compare this to alcoholic wine: "Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. "Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again." - Proverbs 23:29-35 There is clearly a distinction between the kind of wine that is blessed (grape juice) and the kind of wine that is cursed (alcoholic wine). I could go on and on about this subject. And as a matter of fact, this video has inspired me to do one of my own on the subject. If you would like to see it, feel free to subscribe to my channel. I also have a variety of Christian content there. God bless!
I think he's got a point. I CAN be ok to drink if it's not perpetuating an already unhealthy way of life in other areas. I am a Christian and go out once or twice on weekends - but I also live very healthy these days. No smoking, working out, in college, run a business, have a job. As long as you're not a slave to alcohol and it doesn't become an addiction that destroys you, then no big deal kicking back and relaxing with a few brews and your friends. Loosen up a bit people. Lol.
I agree, too much of anything can be harmful, but also remember that the most important question is: does it lead your life? if you are sincere and the answer is no then ok, but if the answer is yes in any aspect then that is indeed the real problem, not the substance or action itself. Sin or not, I wouldnt call it a sin since sin is in the heart, what is to worry about is being driven by anything but God
People often don’t think about the example they set for their kids. My kids will never be able to say that we ever had alcohol in the house or that we consumed it.
He has since been a much kinder man, went back to church this sunday, stopped drinking completely, and says he has hope for the first time in years. Alchol addiction is a demon. As a former drinker it was one of the things God made me repent of for him. At very least it prevents one's light from shining Blessings.
I definitely agree. Some of the legalistic Christians who say drinking is never good really baffle me. Did Jesus sin when He turned water into wine? Yes, His mother told Him to do it, but if she told Him to steal would it have been a sin? Of course it would have. Did Jesus sin when, during the Last Supper, He passed around the bread and win and told His disciples to eat and drink often in remembrance of Him? Was Paul wrong when he suggested people drink less water and more wine (1 Tim. 5:23)?
It's not the Bible that talks drinking wine as sin but some Christians made it to be considered as a sin. In our context where Christian has no feeling of guilty in drinking coco cola or Sprite or soda which also has side affects but they fixed eye particularly on wine which I should say as there are man made sin (legalistic sin), and materialistic sins among Christians 😁😁
Choice. For some it is a sin, for others it is a blessing. I for one do not drink, today. I use to party....HARD! It nearly destroyed ME. I destroyed good relationships during those years. I drank away at least 10 years of my life. I had a lot of fun, at least I thought I did. But it was my choice. I don't go around it. Choice.
This's something that each man must pray about in their own circumstances and be mindful of how it could affect others around them. I have a beer or a glass of wine, but stop long before I get drunk, because I know what "drunk me" is capable of. i don't drink around my ex-alcoholic mother-in-law for obvious reasons. I make it a point to my family that although drinking alcohol isn't bad, it can turn into something awful when done in excess. pray about it, and let the Spirit be your guide in life
Its clear that is a case by case basis for each individual. If you dont have any problem with alcohol and are more than happy just having one glass of wine and stopping there its not an issue or a sin. Its clear that the Lords word speaks out against drunkeness. Its the ability to not be tempted to have more and if we are its better to simply stay away (cut it off) as scripture says.
Drinking alcohol responsibly is not a sin. But it can lead to sin. Jesus said this very clearly when he stated "if your right arm causes you to sin, cut it off, for it is better to live without an arm then to loose your whole body and soul to hell" This is a perfect example of this. Try to avoid things that can lead you to sin whenever possible, that is what he meant. Drinking alcohol although not a sin can lead to sin. Avoiding it altogether is best.
Tragically my father passed because he was an alcoholic, alcohol is deadly in this culture, but wheb treated with respect is fine. God Bless you guys and please be safe.
Perhaps you're right on both accounts. I wish I had the audacity to proclaim perfection in dogmatic issues. Christians have been wrestling to understand God's word and will since Jesus. The apostles got it very wrong even when Christ was alive by their own accounts. It must be a blessing to rest assured in your perfection. Best to you and thanks for the blessing.
It’s absolutely a sin to cause a brother to stumble; but just like sex, it’s a gift God created for a specific place and time, and when we venture outside of that is when have it wrong.
Piper's absolutely right. Speaking as one who spent years working as a detox nurse and chemical dependency counselor, I can attest to that. The public simply isn't aware of young men in their 30s being relegated to a nursing home because they can no longer walk & are barely able to remember your name from day to day. Korsakoff's syndrome will do that to you. Or the poor woman in her forties who's incontinent & confused due to alcohol. So folks, drink with others in mind.
I don't drink, not because I think that even drinking a little bit is a sin, it's just that I've witnessed some of my family and friends' lives ruined by alcoholism so I'd rather not risk it. However I pass no judgment on Christians who do enjoy an occasional beer or wine.
Interesting video and well done. The subject of alcohol invites the whole question of Christian freedom and responsibility. The knee jerk reaction is to rule out alcohol for everyone but God's creation is more complex than that.
I believe that it is not about whether "is it OK to drink alcohol" but rather, why would you want to drink alcohol? What is the motive behind drinking alcohol? and Does it benefit in any way, physically? Those are some of the questions I ask myself whenever I'm around alcohol.
Been sober for 21 years. Praise the Lord 🤗 thank you Jesus setting me free
Congrats I’m coming on three!!
Alcohol is literally destroying my life. If you are here, you have your doubts too. Just dont do it. It will destroy you.
Thank you.
I'm here cause mom said drinking is sin. Even just a bit.
Thank you
@MaGicTOWer, I did. I will have eight months sober on Feb 3. Your view of alcoholism is way off. It is a disease. It can be treated. It would take me a lot of time to explain it all to you. But, you wouldn’t listen and are, therefore, not worth my time. Also, I am a doctor.
Yea YOU should not drink. Other people are able to control themselves. But sorry that you can't. Happy that you are okay without it.
I think the question is "why do I want to drink" and that answer through the filter of scripture, determines whether you should drink or not in a given situation
Joseph Calandria Wine tastes good. That's all.
To relax.
Beer is delicious. That's why! I have 2 or 3 a month.
Joseph Calandria that’s a great question to ask and what we should really be asking people
Because anything pleasurable is sin.
One of my pastors once said us: "Anything that hurts your walk and relationship with Jesus is sin to you." Pretty simple to me.
piper answered this question very well. I like how he said (drinking) "it can be okay". Drinking a class a wine with dinner doesn't make us a sinner. As a believer I've personally crossed the line too many times with alcohol so i need to stay away. Try giving it up for a month to see if you're not enslaved to it. It's no different then any other thing we may struggle with.
I've recently been having problems with alcohol. I know it's not God's will for my life. But there are just times I can't seem to stop it. It's my prayer that God gives me the strength, wisdom, and peace to quit drinking alcohol. I want him to completely take the desire away from me. I want to be a better Christian. I just feel so weak and powerless. Please pray for me, as this is something that I do need to overcome. God bless. And thank you.
Praying, 8 months later, i pray you've made progress, hoping for you
Prayers for you, brother. Jesus can overcome this if you chase him with all you have. fill your life with Him and let Him win the fight. Plug in as much as you can in a way that comes easy to you, for me it's watching sermons, and pray that God would fill up your desires for Him where they lack (for me it was so hard to read the bible and He has transformed that completely into a need for His word).
Psalm 16 The LORD can win these battles for you, just fill yourself with HIm
I know this is 2 years after you wrote that initially... but one of my good friends had a struggle with alcohol. She was powerless over it. She was involved with a good group of ladies at church and used the life recovery workbook and she has now 4 years clean and sober. Hopefully this can be a tool to help if it is still needed
Proverbs 30
Proverbs 31(KJV)
Ecclesiastes 1»
Proverbs 31 King James Version (KJV)
31 The words of king Lemuel, the prophecy that his mother taught him.
2 What, my son? and what, the son of my womb? and what, the son of my vows?
3 Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings.
4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Prayers go out to you.
Drinking alcohol as long as you don't get drunk is okay but in my family we have a history of alcoholics so I avoid all drinks with that has the stuff in it.
ffairlane57
I don't drink alcohol at all since alcoholism runs in my family
if you want to be funny at least choose a good whiskey
Jota Pê
Like I said I don't drink at all.
not for you man, sorry
was trying to reply to ffairlane57
Jota Pê Okay
I can't read all of the comments here, but any one of us who is honest can be very simple in understanding this subject:
We should not do anything that takes away our ability to remember the Lord and serve him.
It's very simple. That's it.
Now, does that mean that you should drink or that you should not? It means neither. It is a personal exploration as much as, "Should I go to a beach with bikini-clad women or should I not?" is a personal exploration. Do you have the personal character to not lust over the women at the beach? Great, then go! Do you not? Then don't go!
Also, in relation to his comment on not tripping up a recovering alcoholic: Should you take your younger brother to a bikini-clad beach or should you not? Well, how mature is he? Will he have the character not to lust after the women there? That should be considered. You know your brother, and so you should judge carefully.
These are the considerations of a very serious spiritualist. I am not judging anyone who is not so serious, nor am I claiming to be so serious, but that is the fact. We can't deny facts just because they are inconvenient to us.
And so, everything is individual. Judge not. It is impossible to know what others are capable of dealing with. And it is wrong by that criteria to either promote drinking as "OK for everyone" or as "bad for everyone." It is neither.
Absolute considerations (meaning, it's either YES or NO, nothing in-between) do not exist in creation outside of sins like the 10 commandments that are without question. That is why the Pastor answers the question in that way.
Is it better to avoid alcohol if you are able to? Maybe. Certainly it is better to be humble about it and not to think that we are indestructible or spiritually strong - we're only living by grace and the force of temptation is very strong. But then, maybe it's better for some strong persons to be an example for others who are learning how to use alcohol responsibly because - face the facts - people are going to use it one way or another.
Again, in conclusion: *There is no absolute answer.* It's all about our individual honesty with God. Be thoughtful in your actions and honest with God about what you are doing. That is the answer IMHO.
The Bible doesn't speak against having a drink of wine, but it speaks against drinking to excess to get drunk.
Ephesians 5:18 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled the Spirit.
The Word of God tells us to be sober (1 Peter 5:8, 1 Thessalonians 5:6,1 Peter 4:7)
ChildOfGod Right you are COG! God said he made wine to gladden the heart of man Psalms 104:15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart. this also tells me why we have more heart problems cause companies have removed the nutrients from wheat to make bread.
God DOES know that overindulgence destroys lives, now matter what it is. He constantly warns us about moderation. How does the cost outweigh the benefits? Was Paul deluded when he told Timothy in 1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. I DO NOT believe Paul was telling him to get drunk or drink much! Paul spoke of wine that was alcoholic because grape juice does not soothe the stomach. I've heard the argument that "wine" in the Bible was ONLY grape juice from so many self appointed experts, but how does that definition fit in such passages as:Proverbs 20:1Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise. Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;(how does one get drunk with grape juice?) There are many other verses warning against the temptation of becoming a winebibber(wino).
I do agree with you about the destruction of alcohol, my dad was an alcoholic as was my 2 younger brothers
GOOD FOR YOU! Too bad many are deceived by satan into believing alcohol makes life better. A great number take drugs to escape reality and not strong enough to live without being doped up.
yes, personal decisions, right? the alcohol didn't make them do it! Guns don't kill people. People make stupid life decisions! If you're stupid life is harder! What happened to personal responsibility?
I agree, but not to condemn others for it:
Pro 31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
Pro 31:7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
“exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the LORD your God will choose. Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, WINE or other FERMENTED DRINK, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the LORD your God and rejoice” (Duet 14:24-26)
Thanks John. Thanks for considering the many people in our culture who struggle with addiction to alcohol in your decision to drink yourself.
Alcoholism has been a magor stumbling block for members of my family and has resulted in me never experiencing a really happy family event in my childhood.
As an atheist, a bartender, and someone who enjoys a nice glass of wine and whiskey, I actually agree with not drinking to drunkenness, and not drinking around alcoholics and people who are recovering alcoholics. I also don't spike drinks. I like to sit on the porch with a drink and spend all evening just sitting and enjoying just one drink as I watch the sunset, I think we as a society need a healthier relationship with alcohol
I respect John Piper. He really knows his stuff. I would agree with the statement that it's okay to drink but not okay to get drunk or to tempt somebody that struggles with it.
People need to understand that the alcohol content was very low back in the days.
Beer was close to 2% and wine was less than 10%. They were capable of more and they did make a lot higher content, it wasn't for everyday purpose. Alcohol use was common because they had no water purifiers. It was even given to children,thank G-d they did. It saved maybe millions of young lives. I am proud of our tap water today, its safe and plentiful. I personally enjoy a tall glass of ice water.
Loved what was said... Our family has alcoholics on both sides of our family tree. We decided a long time ago for the sake of our children and the culture we live in that drinking wasn't something for us. The balance you spoke of is just what we told our children. That the bible doesn't expressly speak against but is it wise in view of present circumstance. Thankfully so far our children agree with us. :)
Alcohol, also known by its chemical name ethanol, is a psychoactive substance or drug that is the active ingredient in alcoholic beverages such as beer, wine, and distilled spirits (hard liquor).
It is one of the oldest and most common recreational substances, causing the characteristic effects of alcohol intoxication ("drunkenness").
Among other effects, alcohol produces mood lift and euphoria, decreased anxiety, increased sociability, sedation, impairment of cognitive, memory, motor, and sensory function, and generalized depression of central nervous system function.
Ethanol is a type of chemical compound known as an alcohol, and is the only type of alcohol that is found in alcoholic beverages or is commonly used for recreational purposes; other alcohols such as methanol and isopropyl alcohol are toxic.
Alcohol has a variety of short-term and long-term adverse effects.
Short-term adverse effects include generalized impairment of neurocognitive function, dizziness, nausea, vomiting, and hangover-like symptoms.
Alcohol can be addictive to humans, as in alcoholism, and can result in dependence and withdrawal.
It can have a variety of long-term adverse effects on health, for instance, liver damage, brain damage, and an increased risk of cancer.
The adverse effects of alcohol on health are most important when it is used in excessive quantities or with heavy frequency.
However, some of them, such as increased risk of certain cancers, may occur even with light or moderate alcohol consumption.
In high amounts, alcohol may cause loss of consciousness or, in severe cases, death.
Alcohol works in the brain primarily by increasing the effects of a neurotransmitter called γ-aminobutyric acid, or GABA.
This is the major inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain, and by facilitating its actions, alcohol suppresses the activity of the central nervous system.
The substance also directly affects a number of other neurotransmitter systems, including those of glutamate, glycine, acetylcholine, and serotonin.
The pleasurable effects of alcohol ingestion are the result of increased levels of dopamine and endogenous opioids in the reward pathways of the brain.
Alcohol also has toxic and unpleasant actions in the body, many of which are mediated by its byproduct acetaldehyde.
Alcohol has been produced and consumed by humans for its psychoactive effects for almost 10,000 years.
Alcohol consumption is generally socially acceptable and is legal in most countries of the world, unlike with most other recreational substances.
However, there are often restrictions on alcohol sale and use, for instance, a minimum age for drinking, and laws against public drinking, and drinking and driving.
Alcohol has considerable societal and cultural significance, and has important social roles in much of the world.
Drinking establishments, such as bars and nightclubs, revolve primarily around the sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages, and parties, festivals, and social gatherings commonly feature alcohol consumption as well.
Alcohol use is also related to various societal problems, including driving accidents and fatalities, accidental injuries, sexual assaults, domestic abuse, and violent crime.
Well said John and I don't drink for exactly the same reasons as you. I also found.. that when I did have a beer or a glass of wine, that it took me 3-4 days to get my 'clarity of mind' back up to 100% !! And, if you are self-employed (like I am) you can't have off days!
I also find it difficult to pray if I have had anything to drink.. (I am 57 and have been a Christian for 37 years and I have not had a drink in 15 years now)
Thank you, Pastor John for your deeply thoughtful, compassionate, straight forward answer to this deadly problem.
Bless You!
Chuck Northrop(article)
The obvious answer to the question, "Did Jesus turn water into wine?" is yes. At the marriage feast in Cana of Galilee recorded in John 2:1-11, Jesus turned water into wine. However, this question does not usually ask what is meant by it. What is usually meant is "Did Jesus make intoxicating wine?" And the answer is no. Let me explain. The word translated "wine" in English ( in Koine‚ Greek) can refer to either alcoholic or non-alcoholic wine. At present, the term "wine" is almost used exclusively of alcoholic wine, but let us never be guilty of interpretation based solely upon modern day definitions. Consider these examples of the word "wine" being used in Scripture with reference to unfermented grape juice.
Joel 1:10 says "The field is wasted, the land mourneth; for the corn is wasted: the new wine is dried up, the oil languisheth." (This refers to grapes dried up in the fields, which could not be intoxicating.)
Isaiah 65:8 says "Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all." (Alcoholic wine in the cluster? No, the juice of the grape while in the cluster could not be intoxicating.)
Jeremiah 48:33 says "And joy and gladness is taken from the plentiful field, and from the land of Moab; and I have caused wine to fail from the winepresses: none shall tread with shouting; their shouting shall be no shouting." (The wine of fresh squeezed grapes coming out of the winepress is grape juice and could not be fermented.) Certainly other passages could be considered, but these are sufficient to illustrate that the word "wine" can refer to alcoholic wine or simply grape juice.
"So, how do we know when it refers to grape juice or intoxicating wine?" The context in which the word is found will determine whether it refers to alcoholic or non- alcoholic wine. So, consider the context. The immediate context of John 2:1-11 is quite clear. The guests at the marriage feast of Cana were able to discern between the quality of the drink that the Lord had made and that which had already been served. If intoxicating wine had been served, and people "well drunk" or "drunk freely" (American Standard Version,1901) of it (verse 10), then they would not have had such keen discernment. Though the amount is not specified as to what they had previously drunk, if they consumed the six waterpots that Jesus had the servants fill with water and which contained "two or three firkins apiece" (verse 6), then they would have consumed somewhere between 106 to 162 gallons of booze! This is far more than enough to make the most casual drinker drunk. Those who twist this account to condone social drinking say the term "well drunk" refers to the idea that the crowd was so drunk that they could not distinguish. However, the point of "the governor of the feast" to the bridegroom is that the guests were able to discern between the "worse" and the "good wine." If it is the case that these wedding guests were so drunk that they could not distinguish, then the Lord made the six pots of alcoholic beverage for those who were already strongly under the influence, and caused them to be even more drunk! Thus, the "good wine" of the wedding feast of Canaan must have been the fresh juice of the grape. Also, consider the logical consequence of those who want to use this passage to justify the consumption of alcoholic beverages. Their argument goes something like this: "Since Jesus produced alcoholic wine, then it is morally right for a person to drink it." However, notice that their logic takes them further than most of them want to go. Since Jesus produced alcoholic wine (as they claim), then not only would it be morally right to drink it, it would be morally right to produce it, sell it, distribute it, and make a living from it. But since that would most certainly cause someone to stumble, then it must be morally right to cause someone to stumble. However, the logical consequence of their argument would oppose the Lord's teaching (Luke 17:1-2). No, the reasoning is a foolish argument that has no foundation in scripture. Further, consider the general context of the Bible. Habakkuk wrote, "Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!" (2:15). The sin Habakkuk is rebuking is the sin of contributing to drunkenness. If Jesus supplied intoxicating wine to the wedding guests at Cana, then He contributed to their intoxication. Not only did Jesus contribute to it, He, also, condoned and encouraged people to get completely soused! Since intoxication is sinful, then Jesus sinned, and the "woe" of Habakkuk would be upon Him. If this be the case, then it would be better for Jesus "that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea" (Luke 17:2). As a perfect man, Jesus could not have turned water into alcoholic wine and offer such to others. Another passage to consider in this context is Proverbs 23:31-32, which says, "Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder." If Jesus had turned water into intoxicating wine, then He would have caused others to look upon the wine when it is red opposing the wisdom of Solomon. Since, Jesus is "greater than Solomon" (Matthew 12:42), He would know the wisdom of sobriety and would not tempt others with an intoxicating beverage. Again, Solomon wrote, "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise" (Proverbs 20:1). "What, then, was the miracle of the wedding feast in Cana?" The miracle of Cana was that Jesus surpassed or transcended the normal amount of time and the natural process that it takes to produce and harvest grape juice. That, which normally takes months, took Jesus but a moment. Augustine wrote, "For he on that marriage-day made wine in the six jars which he ordered to be filled with water he who now makes it every year in the vines; for, as what the servants had poured into the water- jars was turned into wine by the power of the Lord, so, also, that which the clouds pour fourth is turned into wine by the power of the self-same Lord." (As quoted in "Bible Wines" by William Patton, page 91.) "How could this be? Did they have any methods of preservation of grape juice in the first century?" Yes. In fact, they had several methods. In the book "Bible Wines," the author, William Patton, discusses four methods that the ancients used for the preservation of grape juice. One such method is to keep air completely excluded a method often used today. R. C. Foster in his book, "Studies in the Life of Christ," said, "A Greek wine ship of the second century B.C. found by divers off the southern coast of France several years ago contained a great number of wine flasks that had been sealed so tight that after more than 2,000 years the sea water had not seeped into them." With close examination, we must conclude that the Lord did not make intoxicating wine at the marriage feast in Cana of Galilee. "Did Jesus turn water into wine?" Yes. "Did Jesus turn water into intoxicating wine?" Absolutely Not! Alcohol has caused and/or contributed to broken homes, every kind of accident imaginable, disease both physical and mental, poverty, and crimes of every kind. Since its effect is such, it is beyond my own imagination why anyone would ever want to justify its use let alone mar the Lord's perfect example with its production and distribution. Its use is not social in any way but is in every way antisocial. Its defense by sweet-talking, soft- pedaling, so-called preachers is religiously hypocritical, morally irresponsible, and socially despicable. It has victimized the unborn, children, teenagers, the middle aged, and the old. It has victimized business people and laborers, country folks and city folks, the rich and the poor. There is probably not one person who has not felt its evil bite and its viperous sting! It is beyond my reasoning power to understand how people who claim to be spiritually minded and morally upright will rationalize its use. Blood has filled our streets because of this vile beverage. Graves have filled our hills and vales because of this evil drink. Reproach has filled our nation because of this wicked intoxicant. Corruption has filled our society because of this corrupted liquor. Shame and disgrace has filled our homes because of this malicious booze. Rather than justifying its use, let us stand diametrically opposed to it for "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise."
Thank you so much. So well-said. Incidentally, the past couple of days, I've been listening to a CD I've had for a long time, "When I Don't Desire God." I've known Him for nearly 37 years, but various life circumstances have put me in this place. Your encouragement on the CD has been wonderful. Thank you so much!
I don't always agree with John Piper, but here I think he nailed it!
He is definitely correct on this one. Why do any of us HAVE to drink? Reasons? To Enjoy? To take your pain away?
If that is, then it shows that you aren't enjoying your life. When we are completely content with God, we don't need alcohol to be happy. I go out. I dance. I have fun. I don't drink but my friends LOVE ME. I have so much fun & I love my life! I find the true peace in my heart when I read the Bible.
He is so profound ! I am amazed about the way this men loves the word.
I like how John gets himself down to the level where everyone is (not to say all pastors do that) It's nice that he lets us see that the fight against sin is won with God
Amen. In this society drinking destroys so many lives. How could any moral person, much less a born-again Christian dare drink, knowing that people are watching, and you might cause them to fall. There blood is on your hands.
Alcoholism is the issue. It is a disease that kills millions annually, A strong respected Christian who takes a drink would influence sober alcoholics to drink. Its the nature of the beast.You have to understand alcoholism. It is a life and death daily struggle.
You can say that about anything, I shouldn't kiss my wife in public, because that might cause a single person or a recovering sex addict to stumble into fornication. It's such a crap argument, used to mask extra Biblical legalism. God made wine to make merry the heart of man...at least that's what my Bible says. You are holier than God.
Proverbs 20:1 KJV
[1] Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.
Murtis Cathis YES. This is wisdom.
"Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind."
Lol I like that verse...one man esteems one day above another another esteems everyday alike let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind...that's a good verse...
It is a sin to drink to drunkeness, especially if it is a pattern. A person without addiction problems who drinks beer or wine or cocktails in moderation, and not around brothers or sisters whom he knows to be alcoholic, commits no sin. I appreciate Piper's sensitivity on this matter, but his answer could have been just that simple.
Some say that alcohol consumption today is a sin for believers. One argument that is used is that the alcohol from Bible times contained a much smaller percentage of alcohol than alcoholic beverages of today, and therefore, it was fine for the Jews to consume it but not for us today. This argument has a major flaw when the definition of sin is understood. We know that sin is anything that goes against God. We should not be doing anything that goes against Him. But, if this is true, than an assumption has to be made. We must assume that it is okay for Christians to sin a little bit (consume smaller percentages of alcohol), but not a lot (large amounts of alcohol in modern drinks). Of course, this is nowhere in Scripture, and in fact the opposite is true. Jesus said, "If you love me, you will obey my commandments." This is an absolute statement that is later supported by another statement Jesus makes when speaking to the churches in Revelation 3:16, "But since you are like lukewarm water, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth." Further, if you read the account of the kings of Judah from 1 & 2 Kings and 1 & 2 Chronicles, you will see that the author repeatedly writes, "King X followed God, but not as his father David did, for he kept the high places" (high places being the alternative areas of worship that were forbidden after the Temple was constructed). The author acknowledges that the kings were godly, but they had character flaws that were obviously an issue worth noting. So, the point is that we are called to follow God 100% of the time. If alcohol consumption is a sin, any percentage of it would be wrong for Christians to consume, and this would then mean that Jesus and other characters in the Scriptures sinned. Because Jesus was without sin, we cannot conclude that alcohol consumption is a sin by this argument.
Well done.
Makes so much sense, far more than all the preachers arguments who are against drinking.
I don't know if wine was weaker then, it certainly got Lot drunk enough to do the nasty with his daughters!
New wine a term given to un-fermented (e.g. grape juice), so I'd assume communion was red grape juice.
I'm not sure about the Israelites drinking alcohol unless it was another 'your hearts were hard' provision like the certificate of divorce.
As long as it doesn't rule out Tiramisu and Christmas cake I'm fine.
Tim Lewis Well, it does say in Psalms 104 that God brings forth "wine to gladden the human heart," so it seems logical to conclude (especially in the context of the many other verses in Scripture), that drinking wine is fine. As a side note, I don't understand why wine is given special treatment. Proverbs speaks out against gluttony, so why don't Christians oppose unhealthy foods?
New wine gladdens the heart, but the wine of Sodom (alcohol) is a depressant.
31Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
32At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder. Proverbs 23
I love John Piper. Great bible teacher, but that has to be one of the most unclear, and muddiest answers I've ever seen given to this question. It's almost as if he was afraid to say what needed to be said as not to offend someone. Which is. Complete abstinence.
mopar Mike How very Baptist of you. Reminds me of when Jesus approached Nathaniel," Behold an Israelite in whom there is no guile" Think REAL hard about Jesus first miracle and don't give the Baptist answer that it was really just grape-juice. The "sin" is in the person's relationship to alcohol. If it is an idol or anything they have let take hold in their lives than yes, it is sin. But people idolize many things. Some people idolize their marriage, their children, their jobs. Some people even idolize their own self-righteousness.
ROCKLIKEACOBB I couldn't agree more. The sin is in the relationship with alcohol. And when I am an influential individual and my moderate consumption of alcohol ( Relationship) causes a brother to stumble, I have in fact sinned.
Wait. What. you had me until the end where you said the opposite of what is true and what the bible says. Which is conviction. God desires our heart, not our ability to adhere to laws. It's exactly what he said to the pharisees. Drunkenness is what we are warned about.
JBC *_" Wait. What. you had me until the end where you said the opposite of what is true and what the bible says. Which is conviction"_*
If I'm saying the opposite of what the bible says, please provide the bible verses.
*_" God desires our heart, not our ability to adhere to laws "_*
The bible says if we love God we will obey his commands
*John **14:15** New American Standard Bible*
*15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."*
*_" It's exactly what he said to the pharisees."_*
He said nothing of the sort to the Pharisees. His problem with the Pharisees wasn't with the law or some of the rules they were trying to keep, but with their hypocrisy and trying to gain righteousness through them.
See here below. Christ himself admonished the people to follow the law & some of the rules of the Pharisees but he told them not to do as they did. Because they were hypocrites.
*Matthew 23:3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)*
*_3 therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them._*
*_" Drunkenness is what we are warned about."_*
Not just drunkenness alone.We're warned to not even look upon the wine when it is fermented and to do nothing to cause our brother to stumble. It is only the lukewarm, liberal, and modern Church that teaches the canard that alcohol is fine in moderation.
*Proverbs **23:31** New American Standard Bible (NASB)*
*31 Do not look on the wine when it is red, When it sparkles in the cup,When it goes down smoothly*
*Romans **14:21** New American Standard Bible (NASB)*
*21 It is good not to eat meat or to drink wine, or to do anything by which your brother stumbles*
mopar Mike he made it pretty clear its ok to drink but not get drunk and unless ur gonna be a stumbling block 2 soem1else who might have struggled with alchohol or struggles, hes pretty much sayin tho its better not 2 drink but not because its a sin but just because of wat it can lead 2
Some of you need to repent! Even the way you write shows how far you are from being Christians. With that said: No drinking is not a sin. Yes getting drunk is a sin.
To Christians:
If this subject causes you to anger against each other than you love drinking more than you love your brother. And if you having a glass of wine offends your brother than abstain from drinking!!!! Your love for your brother should have a stronger hold on you than wine or beer. I am not speaking lightly here. I enjoy red wine and wine culture. Before I was born again I was a bartender and I enjoyed mixing drinks very much. So I know the power of drinking and its effects on people. I also know that not many people are able to control themselves and have just one beer or one glass of wine. You always search for that buzz. Lets be honest!!!! Don't fool yourselves. We can drink, but is it edifying?Is it necessary to the point that you rather loose your brother (a redeemed soul, image of Christ) just so you can have your glass of wine? It is my humble opinion folks that if we do drink a glass of wine, we dont do flaunt it in front of our brothers who dont drink and we dont have open discussions about drinking with people. Keep it to yourself. And further more you can ask the Lord if He wants you to stop drinking. Not everything that is permitted brings glory to God. Do all things to the Glory of God.
yeah..totally agree..this is what i want to say as well..
Getting drunk is not a sin. Some of the most unchristian people I ever met never drink.
***** I think you think sin is living, breathing, laughing, too much
+lucy melo Amen, sister!
+Bridget O'Donnell+1 no really, you have no idea what sin is. or had. this is like a year old lol
Drinking is a very slippery slope. You have to be keenly aware of your limitations with alcohol. As a someone who recently turned 21, I was not aware of my limitations my first time drinking and as a result, I got drunk. I still have nothing against a little bit of alcohol to wind down the day with; however, I now am greatly aware of what my personal limitations are.
Hear ye people what saith the Lord regarding this subject; "Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise." Proverbs 20:1 I'll take what the Lord says over this man's opinion.
Donald Godin This counsel was given to the people at a time when they were yet wandering. The Lord said, "Thou shalt surely tithe all the increase of thy seed, that the field bring forth year by year, and thou shalt eat it before the LORD thy God, in the place which He shall chose to place His name there (Deut 14:22-23) This counsel in particular applied to those who lived a long distance from the sanctuary, (verse 24) They were to take there increase (produce, livestock etc.,) and sell it for money (verse 25) Then when they came near the tabernacle they were to buy with the tithe money whatever they desired to offer to the Lord (verse 26) Notice verse 3 prohibiting the eating of anything "abominable". So the phrase "whatsoever thy soul lusteth after" had it's limitations. As pertaining to the strong drink, there were specific instructions what should be done with it. So "whatsover thy soul lusteth after" is not a license to drink. But the believer was not to drink the wine or strong drink. The command was "and the drink offering thereof shall be the fourth part of an hin for the one lamb: in the Holy place shalt thou cause the strong wine to be poured unto the LORD for a drink offering (Num 28:7)
You assume that all wine is alcoholic. Grape juice is also called new wine. Jesus wouldn't create alcoholic wine at a party after a bunch of people were supposed already drunk as some people want to believe.
"So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine."
Let alone 500 gallons of it! . 1Timothy which lays down the criteria for Bishops and Deacons forbids Bishops from consuming alcoholic wine altogether, so why would Christ drink it?...
The history of grapes shows that they made non-alcoholic wine, and it was considered the best wine.
Pliny lived from AD 24-79. He said, "For all sick, wine is most useful when its forces have been broken by strainer.” Protropos is "must which flows spontaneously from grapes.”
Horace died just ten years before Jesus was born. He says of some wine: “you can drink 100 glasses without fear of intoxication”
Aristotle lived from 384-322 BC. He refers to a sweet grape beverage that “though called wine, it has not the effect of wine, for it does not taste like wine and not intoxicate like ordinary wine.”
Athenaeus, the Grammarian, at about 200 AD, recommended non-alcoholic wine or grape juice for stomach trouble: “Let him take sweet wine, mixed with water or warmed, especially that kind called protropos... effeminatum …as being good for the stomach; for sweet wine does not make the head heavy.”
The people of the time of Jesus disagree with you. They say that wine can be non-alcoholic. Jacob drank the pure blood of the grape which could mean it was boiled; this is contrasted to the wine of Sodom which is poisonous (alcoholic).
Deut 32:14,32
Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. Prov. 23:31(alcoholic wine)
Jesus drank the fruit of the vine, and we will drink it "new" not "old" alcoholic wine.And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, Drink ye all of it; 28For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. 29But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.
Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: Isaiah 65:8
Presses break out with "new wine" not alcoholic wine Prov 3:10
You can't drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of devils. 1 Cor. 10:21
Joe Monroe You made that up. It doesn't say Jesus made grape juice. Some of y'all are annoying because you just make the Bible say what you want it to say.
God Bless You, Pastor John Piper
" I can't buy a pack of gum without going through it in an hour" - LOL - Love you Brother JP
I see this is an old post but felt I wanted to share…as my sons got older, ….20-25, I thought through this plenty. I have 3 rules concerning this: 1). Don’t be mastered by anything, 2). Don’t make your brother stumble and 3). Don’t ignore your conscience. My “adult “ sons haven’t had any issues. We’ve been blessed in this area.
Jesus never drank spirits, just wine in moderation and did not lead to drunkeness. Be sober minded
@J O than what is the word of God ?
@J O are u Muslim
@Syahr Ali bro I m a Muslim too ...
@Syahr Ali you should respect jessus cz he was one of our prophet ....
@Syahr Ali and I m not drunk ....All right ...I m a Muslim I never touch Alcohol
Alcohol and other mind-altering substances which poison the human body and cloud the judgment have destroyed more relationships and lives than many wars.
"Wine is a mocker and beer a brawler; whoever is led astray by them is not wise." Proverbs 20:1
"Don’t be drunk with wine, because that will ruin your life. Instead, be filled with the Holy Spirit." Ephesians 5:18 #SobrietyIsTheOnlyWayToLive
Proverbs 30
Proverbs 31(KJV)
Ecclesiastes 1»
Proverbs 31 King James Version (KJV)
31 The words of king Lemuel, the prophecy that his mother taught him.
2 What, my son? and what, the son of my womb? and what, the son of my vows?
3 Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings.
4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
Except Marijuana 😊
@@thatoneguyRyan1 if you are a christian and smoke weed you have to recheck your values. I was heavily convicted of that sin
kwarteltje kip
God has let me know that it’s not a sin to experiment with weed. 😊
Ryan,
God has let you know?
Always be ready to share the Word! Christians can’t share it well with Booze on breath. Be wise, it is 2018, we do not need it!
Holy Ghost fill the church! ☝️
I support what this man says. He stays humble in saying that there is no complete answer that says that wine is wrong. Though he makes the statement, he follows up with what is a great conviction about his influence on his family and future generations of his family. It is not a judgment but a choice.
He's squishy and dresses up his legalism in pious sounding garb.
Sometimes I do use it for escapism but I feel actually closer to God when I drink wine and music and conversation seems enhanced in a spiritual way. It does not feel like a sin more of a communion but perhaps I should not over indulge because I feel drunk with God. Also it is harder on my physical body than when I was younger.
I like your perspective on communion and discipline. God bless.
A very wise man. And he has more strength than me. I give in to drink. And I am going to heaven. Praise Jesus!
Well said Pastor! I deal with this on two cultural standpoints - Asian and American. I like to phrase the use of alcohol as "credibility." If you are to be credible, you must be observant as to how your "choice" contributes to the domino effect. Blessings.
That was totally fabulous and very well supported with great explicit examples. Thank you John Piper....for I am a teacher of high school students that chosen to desire God and get lots of questions just like this.
Rely on the Holy Spirit to guide you in everything.... even in drinking. His convictions will manifest in you and tell you if it is right or wrong. I think we know His answer, but reliance on Him is the most important thing in this life. He will never lead us astray and will always do what is best for God's glory. Amen.
When I did not know Christ Jesus as my Savior in my Navy days I used to drink to drunkenness quite often for a while. After God granted me repentance of my sins and saving-faith in Jesus Christ I found myself struggling to know if any consumption of alcohol was sinful. I have gone from total abstinence for years, then I might have 1 small beer on rare occasions. I am thankful that God did protect me from being addicted to alcohol. The only real addiction I have that I struggle with is dipping tobacco. I literally hate drunkenness and that is why as a believer in Christ I only rarely drink one small beer on rare occasions with a meal. That being said, I am still trying to study God's Word and seeking Godly information to see if even the occasional beer might be sinful. If it is I definitely don't want to drink at all, but I do find it confusing with all the different viewpoints by different Christian teachings. Some say the one beer on rare occasions is not sinful, but then others say it is sinful to ever drink any alcohol period. It is very confusing. I even came across one guy who said he refused to use cough medicine if it had alcohol in it. I want to have peace with God about whether it is sinful or not to drink alcohol in any quantity. I definitely don't want to sin deliberately that is for certain. I liked what brother Piper had to say and it helps some toward getting clarity on the subject.
Alcohol by itself is not a sin.
Coffee by itself is not a sin
Tobacco by itself is not a sin
Marijuana by itself is not a sin
Big Mac by itself is not a sin
but when it becomes a every day ritual where in the morning you need a cup of coffee, every noon you need to a cigarette, in the evening you need a shot of ciroq, and before bed you need to smoke a joint as your eating your big mac, EVERY DAY.
it becomes a sin.
If it masters you, it becomes a sin.
The physical addictiveness in caffeine, tobacco, and alcohol where you start withdrawaling, is when it gets bad.
But of course when you put petrol and fire near and play with it and tell it's okay to play with it once in a month of course it harms one day when you drink alcohol once it is having more chance that you can do another sins also
Because when you are you are in control of your mind
Marijuana IS a sin when grinded, baked, eaten, smoked, rubbed on, inhaled voluntarily or any other form of it. Weed is considered sorcery.
Alcohol is prohibted in christianity
im tide okay I’ll go ahead and have a little bit of weed
Idolizing it and letting it lead you is wrong.
This has always been a debate, but I just prefer not to drink at all....going on almost a year now.
The sin is not drinking alcohol. The sin is "not being able to handle your liqour". Know your limit. Yield not to temptation. You'll be fine. God bless! ☺
+sha1017906 That is the horror of SIN not of alcohol. A bottle of wine isn't hurting anyone until a human sinfully abuses it.
+andrewt248 ^^^
+sha1017906 So because there are STDs then all sex becomes sin? By this logic. And so on
No offense but this comment is pretty naive. Clearly you haven't met any real alcoholics. Alcoholism goes a bit far beyond 'holding your drink' or 'knowing your limit', and I pray you've never given this advice to anyone actually afflicted by it. Optimism ain't gonna help when the demons come rushing in. For people who have ever drunk to the point of ruining some aspect of their life, minor or major, yes alcohol is a sin to be avoided completely. If every time you drink you anticipate feeling a buzz, then absolutely yes, drinking is a sin. By the time you start to feel altered by alcohol, usually 2 or 3 drinks in, you've already incurred some brain damage. The Bible says your body is a temple, as well as many other things that speak against even a buzz in this sense. Don't fool yourselves just because it's legal and because of family traditions and what your friends do. Those are the ways of this world. For one who seeks God, 8 times out of 10 I'm pretty sure alcohol is a no.
+Dakota 1:44 The word I would add to sentence with the word calvaire would be nonchalant.
At the same time, I feel when tens of thousands of children are dying of hunger each night, we should not be spending our money on alcohol
What a response!!
all hes saying is that alcohol isn't a sin but he was trying to tell the person to be careful because you might find yourself in a position where you might need to repent..especially in this culture because its usually abused...
John 10:30
New International Version (NIV)
30 I and the Father are one.”
I like the way His Holiness Pope Shenouda III answered the question about "is it OK for a Christian to drink alcohol'? He said: "You have the Holy Spirit in you. Why do you need alcohol? No! Stay away from alcohol, tobacco and drugs". Protestants seem to require tender, lengthy explanations to simple "no" answers. Why is that?
I'm very close to God when I'm sober but I am closer to God when I drink. It makes me think more about God and Jesus. It takes me into my soul. It helps put life into perspective. Sorry but If you think that that is a sin, then you need a reality check. Judge me if you want too, but remember that's a sin as well.
This is an issue that has confused many people. On one hand, we are commanded by the Lord Jesus, “Do not judge, or you too will be judged” (Matthew 7:1). On the other hand, the Bible also exhorts us to beware of evildoers and false prophets and to avoid those who practice all kinds of evil. How are we to discern who these people are if we do not make some kind of judgment about them? There is a righteous kind of judgment we are supposed to exercise with careful discernment (John 7:24). When Jesus told us not to judge (Matthew 7:1), He was telling us not to judge hypocritically. Matthew 7:2-5 declares, "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. What Jesus was condemning here was hypocritical, self-righteous judgments of others. In Matthew 7:2-5, Jesus warns against judging someone else for his sin when you yourself are sinning even worse. That is the kind of judging Jesus commanded us not to do. If a believer sees another believer sinning, it is his Christian duty to lovingly and respectfully confront the person with his sin (Matthew 18:15-17). This is not judging, but rather pointing out the truth in hope and with the ultimate goal of bringing repentance in the other person (James 5:20) and restoration to the fellowship. 2 Timothy 4:2 instructs us, "Preach the Word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage with great patience and careful instruction." We are to "judge" sin, but always with the goal of presenting the solution for sin and its consequences the Lord Jesus Christ.
What it means by judge is to take revenge on someone and invent your own punishments for them, rather than pointing out when they are in a sin, which is a responsible thing to do between christians.
Responsible thing? No one has the right to tell someone there going to hell besides God. Maybe if we would stop rushing to conclusions and address the problem at hand, people struggling with sin would be more prosperous. By judging someone your scaring them, which may help some individuals but it also may drive people away from God. Spread his word, his glory. Not just his punishments.
lamo best comment ive read ever A. Ovation
I know your response wasn't to my answer, but I would like to try to answer it. I don't in any way want to be disrespectful to you, but one does have the right to tell someone they're going to hell besides God. Wether according to God or the US constitution. Offensive speech is not crime, in this case to either parties. Jesus spoke about hell more than he did almost any other subject, (Mark 16:15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. In fact preaching what Jesus said as well as living it was a commandment. And that is where I see your point. I think you, and I as well recognize the fake, hypocritical, lukewarm and non profound Christians. I think a lot of the times Christians don't recognize this, and it's very much our nature. I believe the best way to witness is through your actions and the way you live your life, people will see the diffence in you and ask you why. And a lot of Christians don't want to live it, they want to talk it, do as I say not as I do kind of thing. They are self righteous, and sometimes harsh, not realizing that they too are just a sinner saved by grace.
I don't mean to condemn or hurt anyone but I gotta say this: Not being able to overcome the peer pressure or the temptation of drinking shows your weakness to our enemy. God has already given us SO MANY WAYS TO BE JOYFUL; AND THE BEST WAY IS TO HAVE A GREAT RELATIONSHIP WITH HIM. I pray that we all find the true happiness in Jesus Christ alone.
I thought Jesus turned water into wine - or was it the other way around....?
Does Jesus produce the wine in the liquor stores? No, of course not. Thus, the stuff made from man will toxify the mind and body, rob one of money, and prohibit one from presenting his or her body a living sacrifice holy and acceptable (Romans 12:1), amongst other things. If one wants to relax, he or she can worship God, have a drink of water, and hear from Holy Spirit clearly. Christ gives peace and joy, alcohol gives addiction and toxicity to bodily organs including the brain. Wine from man can NEVER be compared to wine from Christ.
Erm...so why did Christ turn the water into wine and not some other invigorating elixir? And don't all things come from God, even wine from Walmart? You're putting your own spin on the Bible - supreme arrogance on your part. You need to learn a little humility: you are neither God nor Christ.
He's a legalist, the Bible doesn't support tee-totalism.
Proverbs 30
Proverbs 31(KJV)
Ecclesiastes 1»
Proverbs 31 King James Version (KJV)
31 The words of king Lemuel, the prophecy that his mother taught him.
2 What, my son? and what, the son of my womb? and what, the son of my vows?
3 Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings.
4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink:
5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.
6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.
7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
nuff said...... Amen.
Drinking today and drinking in the Bible are two very different drinkings. In biblical Israel, wine was much less alcoholic than even our lite beers today. In fact, our beer is about 5 to 10 times more alcoholic than the wine that Jesus drank. Furthermore, the reason Israelites drank wine was much different than we drink wine today. They drank wine because it was cleaner than water. That's much different than our pleasure drinking. Even when they did drink wine for festivities, they had a very limited supply since wine was a luxury. That's much different than our cheap, infinitely available alcohol. Lastly, if you say it's ok to drink alcohol socially, even though it hinders your mental capabilities, why not be able to smoke pot? They both, in essence, do the same thing to your body, so why not? Our mentality should not be, "What can I get away with?" but instead should be, "What can I do to serve my Lord today?" I'm sorry, but drinking alcohol for leisure doesn't seem like a correct answer to that question.
Donald Godin Wine during the first century was a fraction as alcoholic as even our lite beers today. The reason for drinking was completely different since it purified dirty water. The amount drunk was much less since there was a limited amount. It was never just a "get loose" drink. Our alcohol, however, is much more alcoholic, drunk for pleasure, is available in infinite quantities, and is a "get loose" drink. There's no good reason to drink alcohol today. Everyone is just looking for a reason to indulge in something they want, so they use the Bible as an excuse. A good general rule is this: if you have to look for justification to do something, you probably shouldn't be doing it.
Yes, overindulgence in food is a sin.
Paul's circumstances were much different than ours.
The Bible is the source of all truth since it is written by the Holy Spirit. That's His word to us. There's no other source of truth since He doesn't audibly tell us truth.
Very true.
***** It would take more wine to get drunk, true. The wine was still alcoholic, so it would still cause people to become intoxicated. It would just take more than the couple beers like today since the amount of alcohol was less.
Drunkenness was addressed because people would get drunk at weddings all the time. Jesus' miracle of turning the water into wine shows this. This also reinforces a fundamental difference between Jesus' time and our time. Their supply was very finite. Today, we can buy however much we want. So, it's more alcoholic and unlimited, which are very convincing reasons to not drink.
You don't know what was so good about Jesus' wine. For all you know, He could've made wine that was aged and didn't have any of the imperfections/harsh tastes that come with recently made alcohol, which would've been the kind of alcohol in that day. To say that it had to be more alcoholic is an assumption.
We all know it's a sin to get drunk. We also know that giving alcohol to a person who has a problem with drinking/gets drunk a lot is a sin. Jesus didn't sin, obviously. This means that no one at that party had a problem with drunkenness.
Never have I said that drinking alcohol is a sin. My point is that it makes no sense to drink today. It's much more alcoholic, it is unlimited, and it is not necessary for health purposes like it was in the first century. Drinking to loosen up and being more fun is not what the Bible condones.
***** John MacArthur did a sermon on alcohol and how it's not necessary and unwise today. He explained how alcohol back then was either boiled, which removed alcohol completely, or it was mixed with lots of water or milk, making its alcohol content lower than our average. It wasn't essentially grape juice, but it wasn't as alcoholic as our beers today.
Also, you seem to assume that you have to be roaring drunk in order to be sinning. Having your mind even slightly altered is a sin. Even the slightest buzz that makes you even the slightest bit not sober is a sin. It doesn't take much to do that to the human body. We are to be of sound mind. Anything else is wrong.
I'll reiterate another main point. They needed slightly alcoholic water in order to survive. Alcohol purified their dirty water. We don't need that anymore.
My answer is why? There are zero reasons to drink. There are many reasons not to. You could get drunk. You could get addicted. You could cause someone else who struggles with alcoholism to drink. You damage your liver. You kill brain cells. The list goes on and on. There is no reason for a Christian to drink other than for pleasure/the buzz. That's a worldly desire.
***** It's not grape juice. It's less alcoholic alcohol. If there's some alcohol in it, which there was in first century wine, you can become mentally impaired by it. Given the resiliency of the human body, or lack thereof, that can be done quite easily, even with less alcoholic drinks. Especially when all of the water was slightly alcoholic in order to protect against bacteria.
If you agree that we shouldn't drink, why do you defend it so much?
***** Here's a link to John MacArhur's entire sermon on the topic: www.gty.org/resources/sermons/80-380/christians-and-alcohol
There is no real justification for drinking alcohol today since we have no reason to.
All of these videos are fantastic sir! Love the open-mindedness and wisdom to be real and not make lofty religious bans of different things. Your wisdom shines through. Keep doing what you do.
no john its not ok to drink alcohol . there . that took 3 seconds to answer . you wasted 3 min and 36 sec.
stay humble, friend.
zeke man Why not?
may we do all things for your glory Lord!
Drinking is fine BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT dont drink every freaking day and abuse it, ya know party up drink 1 or twice on the weekend get wasted get laid wat ever AND THAT IT. Give time for ur liver to recover.
That said if I know that my drinking is going to offend someone but I do it anyway then it is because of self that I do it and then it becomes a sin. I have family members who condemn me to hell for drinking a glass of wine yet they spend a great deal of time gossiping and tearing others down. Sin is sin and that is where our battle is. As Paul said, anything not done in Faith is sin.
This is the most ridiculous argument I have ever seen. The bible even contradicts itself there if you find a passage that condemns drinking and being drunk.
At the marriage in Cana of Galilee Jesus doesn't do anything to stop people from drinking and getting drunk, on the contrary. When the guests are already drunk he turns water into more wine because they had run out. Alcohol was part of it and he doesn't condemn it, he condones it.
John 2:10
"And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now."
Apart from that I am certain he will have had wine at the passover seder that is now being called the last supper. And there's nothing wrong with that either... actually it is pretty normal. Wine is a big part in Jewish culture to this day, so why wouldn't he have wine and allow people to get drunk when they celebrate?
Christianity condemns addiction of any sort. Addictions will take away humans from giving glory to God to the Wordly things and will destroy their life eventually. Jesus knows that and that is why he asks the believer to flea from all kind of addiction. Alcohol is addictive.
cupido4amor*flee
Food is addictive. How many people are addicted to eating? How many people are addicted to sugar?
Anything can be an addiction.
There are people who are addicted to eating dryer sheets ffs.
cupido4amor Christ made approximately 150 gallons of wine at Cana. 150 GALLONS!!!
Deuteronomy 14:26 and spend the money for whatever you desire-oxen or sheep or wine or strong drink, whatever your appetite craves. And you shall eat there before the Lord your God and rejoice, you and your household.
CanadianOrth 1 Corinthians 6:12
All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
Grace filled self control and gratitude, not abstinence for the fear of addiction, keeps us from from being brought under the power of things. There is no command to abstain in scripture. Notice not only wine, but "strong drink" are to be rejoiced in, before the face of God.
A very interesting book that has helped me decide to be tea total is 'Wine in the Bible and the scriptural case for total abstinence' by Leighton G Campbell.
In it he uses the Bible to promote abstinence. Good, solid, scriptural advice.
Reading it uncovered a massive amount of references to wine, both fermented and unfermented, and it really helps outline God's desires for his people. It's all completely from the Bible - so it's hard to ague with :)
You have very good points, it's true, drinking is not a sin. Getting drunk however, is spoken against in the bible.
Eph 5:18 And "do not be drunk with wine," in which is debauchery, but be filled by the Spirit,
Rom 14:21 It is good not to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor anything by which your brother stumbles, or is offended, or is weak.
We certainly have the liberty to drink, but we should do it in moderation and considering others who may be weak in that area.
John said "wine is a blessing", but failed to counterweight it with "wine is a mocker" in Proverbs.
I think of it like this: It's like the entire chapter of Romans 14. For some people, it is a sin to eat or drink certain things because their faith may be weak and it may prick their consciences. It is also a sin for someone else to eat or drink those things in the presence of the brother/sister who has a weak faith, knowing it may cause them to stumble. But for some people, it is not a sin to eat or drink certain things.
I guess a more realistic question (or follow up question) is "how far is OK?" This is on the individual side, not the influencing others side. Is getting the slightest buzz from alcohol wrong because it is now a substance that has some control over your mind and body? Does "drunk" mean "just a little drunk" or "can't stand up anymore drunk"? Personally my conviction is to go to Psalm 119:3-4 that says "don't compromise with evil" and "keep God's commandments carefully". What do you all think?
I've noticed that all of the Monotheistic religions consider drinking alcohol is a big sin.
Because we love them, we try to help them avoid such issues together. I may be ok, but our neighbor may not be ok. O, how much impact Christians can have when we gather we try our best to pray together, to praise God together, to share our God together, to just love one another, to work towards His Kingdom, OUR Kingdom together most of our time when we are together, doing everything for the glory of God! God bless you with all my heart for your passion for God!
Everyone needs to read Sipping Saints by David Wilkerson. It explains so much.
For what it's worth it's easier outside the church to defend `not drinking`, but harder inside the church to defend it.
I think Paul summed it up in Rom 14:1-6. It's a different choice for every one of us, but the bottom line is doing everything from a heart posture of honor and thanksgiving to God. Drinking wine can be done in honor of the Lord. With all it's intricacies and subtleties, enjoying a good wine can be as God-honoring as admiring the sunset, or an awe inspiring lightning storm from your porch. Both can kill you if you're not careful. Both can liven our hearts to the beauty of our creator.
Being a child of an alcoholic I can say that alcohol does nothing good at all. All alcoholics become alcoholics by saying "I can control myself, I will never let it control me" but more importantly, if you're Christian you already know what alcohol does and that it's better to not drink it.
Jesus drank wine, which is alcohol.
If you abuse alcohol, then its bad. But you can say that about just about anything.
If you abuse eating, its bad. If you abuse sex, its bad. Does that mean we should all stop having sex and eating? No, we'd cease to exist. Moderation is important in a lot of things. Alcohol included.
Ecclesiastes 9:7
"So go ahead. Eat your food with joy, and drink your wine with a happy heart, for God approves of this!"
brother in Christ... i hope pride doesnt over take you but you can keep preaching with love
God bless
I don't think Christians should, neither does the Bible allow for, drinking alcohol. It is true that the word "wine" is used to mean grape juice or alcoholic wine in the Bible. That is why you never find the phrase "grape juice" in the Bible. But the context is what determines it. I don't think Jesus made alcoholic wine at the wedding feast, because in order for grape juice to become alcoholic it needs time to ferment; and the wine Jesus made was consumed right away.
Moreover, notice the Bible specifically pronounces a blessing on wine that is found "in the cluster":
"Thus saith the Lord, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all." - Isaiah 65:8
If it's in the cluster, it hasn't been squeezed out and fermented to make alcohol. This is talking about grape juice. It is grape juice that the Bible pronounces a blessing on.
Compare this to alcoholic wine:
"Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
"Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things. Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast. They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again." - Proverbs 23:29-35
There is clearly a distinction between the kind of wine that is blessed (grape juice) and the kind of wine that is cursed (alcoholic wine).
I could go on and on about this subject. And as a matter of fact, this video has inspired me to do one of my own on the subject. If you would like to see it, feel free to subscribe to my channel. I also have a variety of Christian content there. God bless!
"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not." (1 Corinthians 10:23)
I think he's got a point. I CAN be ok to drink if it's not perpetuating an already unhealthy way of life in other areas. I am a Christian and go out once or twice on weekends - but I also live very healthy these days. No smoking, working out, in college, run a business, have a job. As long as you're not a slave to alcohol and it doesn't become an addiction that destroys you, then no big deal kicking back and relaxing with a few brews and your friends. Loosen up a bit people. Lol.
I agree, too much of anything can be harmful, but also remember that the most important question is: does it lead your life? if you are sincere and the answer is no then ok, but if the answer is yes in any aspect then that is indeed the real problem, not the substance or action itself.
Sin or not, I wouldnt call it a sin since sin is in the heart, what is to worry about is being driven by anything but God
People often don’t think about the example they set for their kids. My kids will never be able to say that we ever had alcohol in the house or that we consumed it.
He has since been a much kinder man, went back to church this sunday, stopped drinking completely, and says he has hope for the first time in years. Alchol addiction is a demon. As a former drinker it was one of the things God made me repent of for him. At very least it prevents one's light from shining Blessings.
I definitely agree. Some of the legalistic Christians who say drinking is never good really baffle me. Did Jesus sin when He turned water into wine? Yes, His mother told Him to do it, but if she told Him to steal would it have been a sin? Of course it would have. Did Jesus sin when, during the Last Supper, He passed around the bread and win and told His disciples to eat and drink often in remembrance of Him? Was Paul wrong when he suggested people drink less water and more wine (1 Tim. 5:23)?
It's not the Bible that talks drinking wine as sin but some Christians made it to be considered as a sin. In our context where Christian has no feeling of guilty in drinking coco cola or Sprite or soda which also has side affects but they fixed eye particularly on wine which I should say as there are man made sin (legalistic sin), and materialistic sins among Christians 😁😁
Choice. For some it is a sin, for others it is a blessing. I for one do not drink, today. I use to party....HARD! It nearly destroyed ME. I destroyed good relationships during those years. I drank away at least 10 years of my life. I had a lot of fun, at least I thought I did. But it was my choice. I don't go around it. Choice.
I feel like whatever that pushes me further away from God is unacceptable.
This's something that each man must pray about in their own circumstances and be mindful of how it could affect others around them. I have a beer or a glass of wine, but stop long before I get drunk, because I know what "drunk me" is capable of. i don't drink around my ex-alcoholic mother-in-law for obvious reasons. I make it a point to my family that although drinking alcohol isn't bad, it can turn into something awful when done in excess. pray about it, and let the Spirit be your guide in life
Its clear that is a case by case basis for each individual. If you dont have any problem with alcohol and are more than happy just having one glass of wine and stopping there its not an issue or a sin. Its clear that the Lords word speaks out against drunkeness. Its the ability to not be tempted to have more and if we are its better to simply stay away (cut it off) as scripture says.
Drinking alcohol responsibly is not a sin. But it can lead to sin. Jesus said this very clearly when he stated "if your right arm causes you to sin, cut it off, for it is better to live without an arm then to loose your whole body and soul to hell" This is a perfect example of this. Try to avoid things that can lead you to sin whenever possible, that is what he meant. Drinking alcohol although not a sin can lead to sin. Avoiding it altogether is best.
Tragically my father passed because he was an alcoholic, alcohol is deadly in this culture, but wheb treated with respect is fine. God Bless you guys and please be safe.
Perhaps you're right on both accounts. I wish I had the audacity to proclaim perfection in dogmatic issues. Christians have been wrestling to understand God's word and will since Jesus. The apostles got it very wrong even when Christ was alive by their own accounts. It must be a blessing to rest assured in your perfection. Best to you and thanks for the blessing.
It’s absolutely a sin to cause a brother to stumble; but just like sex, it’s a gift God created for a specific place and time, and when we venture outside of that is when have it wrong.
Piper's absolutely right. Speaking as one who spent years working as a detox nurse and chemical dependency counselor, I can attest to that.
The public simply isn't aware of young men in their 30s being relegated to a nursing home because they can no longer walk & are barely able to remember your name from day to day. Korsakoff's syndrome will do that to you.
Or the poor woman in her forties who's incontinent & confused due to alcohol.
So folks, drink with others in mind.
I don't drink, not because I think that even drinking a little bit is a sin, it's just that I've witnessed some of my family and friends' lives ruined by alcoholism so I'd rather not risk it. However I pass no judgment on Christians who do enjoy an occasional beer or wine.
Interesting video and well done. The subject of alcohol invites the whole question of Christian freedom and responsibility. The knee jerk reaction is to rule out alcohol for everyone but God's creation is more complex than that.
I believe that it is not about whether "is it OK to drink alcohol" but rather, why would you want to drink alcohol? What is the motive behind drinking alcohol? and Does it benefit in any way, physically? Those are some of the questions I ask myself whenever I'm around alcohol.
some "drinkers" will provide an excuse as to it give you better heart health, but in fact you get the same heart benefits from grapes or grape juice
And I'm trying to tell you, my opinion has nothing to do with this man. I've felt this way for decades.
The REAL title of this should be is it ok, to be a "leader" to believers of Christ, gain their trust and then lead them astray?